April 4th, 2011
04:52 PM ET

Last Look: War of the machines?

Afghanistan is a country where you might be hard pressed to find a working elevator, but if the latest numbers are right, you could have a good chance of running into a robot - that is, if you're on the front lines.

Our latest video shows what might be the latest in a line of increasingly used robots on the combat field. As Fareed says:

According to the Marine Corps robotics guru, there are now more than 2,000 robots being used to fight back the enemy in Afghanistan. That's one out of 50 troops in that country. There are, of course, robots to detect bombs, to disarm bombs and to dispose of them, but also a robot whose main job is to get shot at.

And now this might be the newest robot of all. It goes by the very creative name of X-47B, sort of like R2-D2, and looks like a cross between a stealth fighter and drone. And it is that. But it's also much more. It requires almost no human interaction. It can take off and land by itself. Current drones require pilots, often thousands of miles away to complete those tasks for them by remote control.

The X-47B is even said to be able to take off and land itself on the rolling deck of an aircraft carrier. It will be able to find its target by itself. The only thing it needs a carbon-based life form for is to let it know it's OK to drop the bomb.

Automated combat hasn't quite yet reached the apocalyptic vision of man vs. machines that James Cameron envisioned in his Terminator films. And while they may have conquered chess and Jeopardy, it could still be some time before robots truly control the battle field.

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Topics: Afghanistan • GPS Show • Last Look • Military

soundoff (88 Responses)
  1. roderick trotman

    I would like to point out one very important indicator of the difference between Christianity and Islam. How many times has the bible been desecrated in many different ways? People have done so much to insult and disrespect Christianity's "holy book" over the centuries. I don't recall any riots or murders in retaliation. Jesus taught us differently. Christians are not perfect but we do know that God's word does not need us to protect it by doing things that are wrong. If someone wants to burn the bible or the Koran that is their problem. Something is fundamentally wrong with peolple who follow a religion, as well as their religion, if they will murder fellow human beings who had nothing to do with the insult in the first place. I suspect that Salman Rushdie was right when he described a certain book as "Satanic Verses". I say this only because the followers of that book so often display the spirit of Satan rather than God. Come on! Show the world that he was wrong by your actions!

    April 4, 2011 at 6:00 pm | Reply
    • Rahul

      Rick, the religious tolerance a religion – or rather, its followers display is directly proportional to its age from inception. In the middle ages (of Christianity) the Church did have detractors of the Bible hung and quartered and more, for far less a crime. Imagine we're going through Islam's – a much younger religion's – middle ages. It'll take time for interpretations of its Holy Book to mellow down and for the religion to become 'personal' as it is with Hinduism and Christianity – the two other major religions. As for Buddhism, it's a 'way of life' and not a religion. Once religion becomes a matter of personal interpretation and practice – such 'mass movements' such as Jihad have no meaning left for individuals. After all weren't the Crusades a form of Jihad as well?

      No soul can condone violence by any one religion against the followers of another, however what we cannot condone is branding an entire religion as 'militant' and an 'enemy' of other religions. After all why did rival religions emerge at all – disenchantment with one religion or another. So maybe another religion would spring forth in time from the ones we now brand as militant or maybe that religion will find a guiding force in itself, one that steers it in another direction altogether. It's difficult to imagine that this would happen in our lifetime, however it will happen sooner rather than later.

      April 4, 2011 at 10:33 pm | Reply
      • LarryB

        Well said, Rahul, but I think Christianity still has a way to go too. Raised Christian, I have drifted toward reluctant agnosticism.

        April 5, 2011 at 11:05 am |
      • Rick Keller

        I have studied Islam for 15 years and i'm afraid you have it all wrong. You are trying to apply a christian view on things that are not christian. To say muslims need time to grow and intrepret their Koran differently is like a muslim saying christians need to read the bible as an insturction manual and do exactly as they did.

        You must understand that the Bible was created from many different texts and was all assembled. The Koran was one text, dictated by one man. The bible teachs biblical events and has moral teachings to use as a guide. The Koran is an instruction manual, with the perfect word of god and not to be read in any other way, but to be followed exactly. Christians take a moral lesson and try to live their life by peaceful ways as indicated by unconditional love. Muslims accept the Koran as the command from god, and those commands often include the Jihad.

        It is the goal of every muslim to help usher in the Dar-El-Salam (The House of Peace) which only happens when all the world is under Islamic rule. In that time, it is said there will be world peace, because everybody will be muslim. There are no restrictions on how they get to that point.

        April 5, 2011 at 3:25 pm |
      • george humphrey

        roderick trotman

        April 7, 2011 at 9:19 am |
      • Bill

        To evaluate religions you need to evaluate thme in a political context as well as in a religious context bcause they impact both. Islam is a warlike religion that went on Jihad immediately after the Koran was written in 612 until it was finally stopped in Western Europe by Charles Martel in 732 at the Battle of Tours. In the interim, it had conquered nearly all of the Middle East except for Constantinople and North Africa as well as most of Spain, killing, conquering or displacing millions of inhabitants including the Persian Zoroastrians before it as finally stopped. Incidentally, there is a small community of 60,000 Zoroastrians living in India today descended from the migration from Perisa caused by the Islamic Jihad. Jihad continued nearly unabated until 1687 (check the date) when it was checked at the Battle of Vienna. While Chrisitanity-and specifically the Catholic Church has been involved in and supported wars in the Middle East one has to acknowledge the the Crusades were what Christians believed to be a defensive war fought to keep Jerusalem and the rest of the Holy Land as well as to stop the conquest of all of Europe.

        There is no counterpart to Jihad in all of Christianity. In sharp contrast, Islamic sects still practice Jihad-or at least use it as the basis for their war on the US and other western Nations. They also continue to war among themselves-Sunnites versus Shiites-as they did following the death of Muhammed. War has been an essential part of Islamic culture. This is not to excuse major primarily Catholic inspired Christian wrong doing in the New World and elsewhere. But conversion through conquest is a thing of the past and has never been truly central to Christain and Catholici thinking. Certainly it is not specifically expressed in the bible as it is the Koran. In all likelihood, had not the Moslems declared Jihad in the seventh century, there would not have been a Crusade against them in the eleventh century. To say that idsam is not based on Jihad is to be naive.

        March 12, 2012 at 7:07 pm |
    • Charles Simons

      All religions or cults are by definition intolerant. We need to realize that we have outgrown religion and move away from it before it destroys us all.

      April 5, 2011 at 9:21 am | Reply
      • nunya

        @Charles, any belief is intolerant of something. You're being intolerant of religions for example.

        April 5, 2011 at 10:00 am |
      • Chris

        @Charles Yea, you are actually the dictionary definition of intolerant... but that's okay right, because it's YOUR ignorance... er, I mean intolerance.


        1. "not tolerating or respecting beliefs, opinions, usages, manners, etc., different from one's own, as in political or religious matters; bigoted."

        April 5, 2011 at 10:56 am |
      • Sbot

        Well said. It's funny that the religious have no idea of what tolerance means or doesn't mean as illustrated by the responses to your post. For example, they think it means exemption from valid criticism based on 1000's of years of human history.

        April 5, 2011 at 11:24 am |
      • anon

        By saying that, you have proven yourself intolerant. True tolerance is to let people believe what they want to without getting up in their face about it. Religion in itself isn't about that. Some religions have more of it and some less, but even then it could vary wildly based simply on geographic location and local culture.

        If you don't think somebody "isn't right" (morally or otherwise), that doesn't make you intolerant, it just means you have an opinion. It depends what you do with that opinion.

        Get over yourself.

        April 5, 2011 at 2:11 pm |
      • Amit

        Actually, Buddhism and other Eastern religions such as Jainism and Hinduism do not require any punishment for disbelief. Nor do they condemn unbelievers into eternal hellfire on any such thing, nor is there a need to "harvest souls" for their god. They are more about "To each his own". As far as I am concerned, all religions are useless, if not harmful, but they are not created equal as the PC brigade would want you to believe.

        April 5, 2011 at 2:25 pm |
    • Rational Entity

      Why are we talking about ancient religions here? Who cares what our cave-dwelling ancestors dreamed up? This article is about science. Grow up.

      April 5, 2011 at 9:28 am | Reply
    • jf

      hm, so how do the crusades and general overarching theme of catholic-led persecution in history fit into your 'no riots and no murders' conjecture?

      What I find most interesting is that the Romans would call you atheist's before they fed you to tigers/et cetera..my, how the tables have turned.

      April 5, 2011 at 10:02 am | Reply
    • Danilo Rodriguez

      The Inquisition comes to mind.... I wonder what all the raped and murdered natives in the Americas and other places will have to say about Christians.

      April 5, 2011 at 10:28 am | Reply
    • Steve

      This article is about robots.

      April 5, 2011 at 10:28 am | Reply
      • the eclairifier


        I would wager that the original post was written out of guilt at the thought of using robots to kill other humans. And that it is ok because those people are despicable. He actually feels bad and this is how it was expressed. It is about robots

        April 5, 2011 at 2:57 pm |
    • Mong

      your a mong

      April 5, 2011 at 11:12 am | Reply
    • steven

      What the eff. Don't care abut religion. Robots are clearly the new overlords and I for one welcome them.

      April 5, 2011 at 12:42 pm | Reply
    • marika


      oh and btw the holy book you are taking about is from hebrew texts...

      April 5, 2011 at 1:25 pm | Reply
    • Michael R.

      Just a small side note, Rushdie was not calling the entire Qur'an "Satanic Verses", the book is in reference to a handful of Qur'anic verses that allow the worship of three pagan gods. Since these verses are in extreme contrast to the monotheistic message of the Qur'an, there are those who say it was Satan, not God, that gave those lines to the prophet Mohammad.

      It's actually a very good book, I would suggest you read it instead of just trying to make yourself sound smarter by referencing it.

      April 5, 2011 at 5:52 pm | Reply
  2. Onesmallvoice

    Now we see where our hard earned tax money goes. Building more godless weapons to kill more people efficiently! What turns my stomach the most is all these right-wing nutjobs bragging themselves hoase over these super killers and at the same time we call ours a Christian nation!!! What a revolting situation this is!!!

    April 4, 2011 at 7:08 pm | Reply
    • j. von hettlingen

      This killing robots inspire a country to rage war on another, win it and have a clean conscience towards its own citizens. No deployment of ground soldiers, no return of coffins etc.

      April 5, 2011 at 5:16 am | Reply
      • exo-genocide

        The other nice thing about a robot army is that it can't be prosecuted for war crimes. Instead of building a big complex to commit genocide with you can externalize and disperse the genocide across the country side. It could be deemed too expensive to determine if someone has surrendered or the problem too hard for a robot to figure out. It is much easier just to kill everything that moves. By modifying the rules of engagement we can make it defensible that we kill all life within a certain bounds. Exciting times for computational ethics! If all biological participants are rendered non-operational there will be insufficient remaining witness of the events.

        The solution to pollution is dilution. Also holds for moral, ethical and criminal problems.

        April 6, 2011 at 4:43 pm |
    • Rational Entity

      lol no, a relatively small portion of your GDP is spent on the military. Your hard-earned money is being spent on bank bailouts and executive bonuses. Didn't you get that memo?

      April 5, 2011 at 9:29 am | Reply
      • Ed

        Seriously stop watching Faux News, you are really uninformed.

        Defense spending is the single largest expense of the Federal Government:

        25% Defense
        24% Health
        22% Pensions
        12% Welfare
        16% Other

        April 5, 2011 at 9:46 am |
      • anon

        @Ed – Yes, Defense currently is the biggest portion of our spending, but the recent bailout (that both former and current Presidents contributed to) trumped it by quite a load.

        April 5, 2011 at 2:15 pm |
    • John Denver's ghost

      Are you a Chinese government official bothered by this robotics development, after plagiarizing our 1980s super fighters only to realize you are still far behind?

      April 6, 2011 at 3:04 am | Reply
  3. Sajid I. Barcha

    I would agree with Roderick Trotman. Muslim society lacks tolerance, which is very ironic since one of Islam's basic teachings is tolerance. I am a Muslim, and I don't behave like these not so rarely available bigots. There are many muslims like me, who would agree with you. I don't directly blame Islam, though many muslims of today have made Islam something it wasn't supposed to be. I do not understand where the supposedly basic teachings of tolerance, forgiveness, brotherhood, and knowledge have gone.

    April 4, 2011 at 9:10 pm | Reply
    • Rational Entity

      Throw all that garbage out and start over. You're living your life on rails. It's like you've turned your life into a side-scrolling video game. Wake up!

      April 5, 2011 at 9:31 am | Reply
      • Anon

        Look in the mirror much?

        April 5, 2011 at 9:48 am |
      • chris

        i hope they spend all your money on this stuff the more weapons the better chance of us wining the war and keeping us safe

        April 5, 2011 at 10:04 am |
      • Ryan in Michigan

        Rational Entity, if religion is a side scrolling video game, then your atheistic views are pong. You can't even move from your narrow-minded evolutionary views. At least religious people can choose between left and right. You just sit there staring at your little black and white screen of intolerance thinking "my way is the only way" and let the rest of the world continue to advance away from you.

        April 5, 2011 at 10:13 am |
      • peace


        " wining the war and keeping us safe" We never be safe if we buy war in order to gain power. If you are safe in here but our brothers and sisters are not safe when they are fighting for us. Look every week our military dies in the war in Afghanistan, Those who are dying for us and fighting the Talibans in Afghanistan are also our family.

        April 5, 2011 at 10:29 am |
  4. chris


    April 5, 2011 at 10:00 am | Reply
    • peace

      what stupid person are you. You should be in the mental hospital.

      April 5, 2011 at 10:34 am | Reply
  5. black ops

    Rc-xd Deployed!

    April 5, 2011 at 10:06 am | Reply
    • world at war

      Our recon plane will find them...where ever they hide!

      April 5, 2011 at 11:10 am | Reply
  6. peace

    War Never bring peace. More war, more enemies and more destruction. Nowadays, we create robots to kill because human's life has no values. We always thinking about our own benefits by killing others and gaining power in the world. Since huamans failed to bring peace in the world, it is time for scientist to create robots to bring peace in the world rather to make robots to destroy and kill humans.

    April 5, 2011 at 10:20 am | Reply
    • Joe User


      I guess it would have just ended itself if we'd just quietly laid ourselves down in the graves and been shot.

      I don't see how that is peace winning.

      April 5, 2011 at 2:04 pm | Reply
  7. JO

    I don't know why you fools are talking about religions in the first place with this video. but if you want to go to a discussion about it, we al know religion around the world is just made up by man, because they wanted to show their own country was better, therefore they made up a god and religion to make them seem great. Why you think there is so many religions in the our past history. What was the last greatest empire on this earth? take a big guess Romans and what did the romans created they merged Pagans and Christans , and Muslims countries had Islam and Asians as in Mandarin and others had Buddist .

    Religion is complete bullshi- in lamers terms to show to to other countries who's pen$ was bigger. Now you wanna think Im wrong, look at Mormons. A perfect example how people want to make up stuff.

    April 5, 2011 at 10:34 am | Reply
  8. Denogh

    Obligatory "I, for one, welcome our new robotic overlords!"

    April 5, 2011 at 10:55 am | Reply
  9. Wars of the Future

    "The wars of the future will not be fought on the battlefield or at sea. They will be fought in space, or possibly on top of a very tall mountain. In either case, most of the actual fighting will be done by small robots. And as you go forth today remember always your duty is clear: To build and maintain those robots."

    April 5, 2011 at 10:58 am | Reply
  10. AGeek

    What's with the bright orange hubs?! Not exactly helpful on keeping it from being targeted by the enemy.

    April 5, 2011 at 11:31 am | Reply
  11. Willie 12345

    I wonder just how brave our troops could be if you took away the military hardware they hide behind? Remember,anyone can "fight bravely" as long as they have all the odds in their favor! But nevertheless,the right-wing media brags on them over what a "great job" they're doing just the same and that makes me sick!!!

    April 5, 2011 at 12:57 pm | Reply
    • Bravery is for martyrs

      @Willie Sounds like you'd be happier if our troops dropped all their gadgets and fought toe to toe with the enemy. Oh wait, the enemy is hiding amongst the civilian population and planting thousands of road bombs in the dark of night! Also, by your logic one would expect there have been no US casualties or injuries at all. I'd like to see you tell a US vet to their face that they aren't brave.

      April 5, 2011 at 1:47 pm | Reply
    • Joe User

      We're not there to thump our chests and convince you we're brave and machismo enough to be a warrior.

      You can keep your gold star sticker, in fact, stick it to your name tag.

      Most agree we're past what we can usefully do on the ground there; choosing Karzai is just not a recoverable blunder at this point. Time to turn it over to drone patrols, and reduce the scope to preventing training camps.

      April 5, 2011 at 2:09 pm | Reply
    • anon

      Our soldiers are fighting a war that our leaders are directing. Don't hate on our soldiers for that. If you disagree with the war, talk shit to our leaders, but leave our soldiers alone as they are only doing their jobs. I don't see you doing anything useful.

      April 5, 2011 at 2:19 pm | Reply
    • Onesmallvoice

      Thank you,Willie. That was well stated and don't pay any attention to these ignoramouses here. At least you tell it like it is.

      April 5, 2011 at 2:46 pm | Reply
  12. Dylan van der Merwe

    Being completely serious here, I hope every single military drone and robot will have a limited battery (not solar powered / recharging) and self destruct options

    April 5, 2011 at 1:42 pm | Reply
  13. Joe User

    "Afghanistan is a country where you might be hard pressed to find a working elevator, but if the latest numbers are right, you could have a good chance of running into a robot – that is, if you're on the front lines."

    No point in reading past that. Duh. You also probably have a good chance of running into a jug of water with a camo print; on the front lines. Or a bomb! Or a bullet. What does a bullet have to do with an elevator? Exactly as much as a remote-controlled gun. Which is all these "robots" are: RC vehicles.

    April 5, 2011 at 1:57 pm | Reply
    • Onesmallvoice

      It will do well to remember Joe,that the rght-wing people in the news media used to villify the Russians back in the 1980's for being in Afghanistan and now the same people are glorifying the NATO forces for the same thing. In reality,the Russians were never the villains nor are the NATO forces the heroes that these people portray them to be!

      April 5, 2011 at 2:52 pm | Reply
    • Onesmallvoice

      Sorry Joe for the missprint above. I meant "right-wing people",not"rght-wing people". My apology.

      April 5, 2011 at 3:03 pm | Reply
  14. sunny

    hi every one be aware
    killing families and destroying their homes will bring all to your homes ..remember what you do will get you the same soon or later...its not a fun or game its the fact...
    Afghanistan is going to be a grave for Americana.. like was for Russia

    April 5, 2011 at 1:59 pm | Reply
    • Joe User

      The problem with that idea, it was a graveyard for the Russians because the Americans were supporting their enemy. As long as America doesn't give material support to... it's own enemies, that's a very false parallel.

      April 5, 2011 at 2:12 pm | Reply
    • anon

      I highly doubt the US is intentionally killing innocent civilians with these robots and drones, or with anything for that matter. If it happens, it's a sad and accidental byproduct of war. It's not their fault the enemy is too cowardly to fight up front but instead hides amongst innocent civilians.

      April 5, 2011 at 2:24 pm | Reply
      • Onesmallvoice

        Who told you all that gobbledy-gook,anon? Anyone with half a brain knows better than that!!!

        April 5, 2011 at 2:54 pm |
  15. trenobus

    As if a mercenary army weren't enough, the force multiplication of robots makes a military dictatorship so much easier to achieve. More robots means fewer mercenaries to pay. All it takes is some extended food shortages, civil unrest, and a leader determined to "restore order". We would be safer with compulsive military service. We might also not go to war quite so easily.

    April 5, 2011 at 2:03 pm | Reply
    • Onesmallvoice

      Quite true trenobus,quite true.

      April 5, 2011 at 2:58 pm | Reply
  16. Bender

    Destroy all humans.... execept Fry

    April 5, 2011 at 6:05 pm | Reply
  17. CrazyMan510

    Man that thing looks like a stripped xbox lol

    April 6, 2011 at 5:08 am | Reply
  18. Adam Jackson

    All religious people should be rounded up and destroyed.

    April 6, 2011 at 10:16 am | Reply
  19. stanleyKubrick

    Why is the US in afghanistan again? O0h that's right.....Mr Dick Cheney and Haliburton=oil.....Afghanistan's #1 export=opium....Thanks US for going into another country and stealing their resources.

    April 6, 2011 at 12:38 pm | Reply
  20. george humphrey

    in reply to Roderick Hoffman:

    Dear Rod, I'm sorry you haven't heard about how many times Christians have murdered, maimed, and tortured people just because those people spoke against those christians religion. Examples = Jews in Spain. the Spanish Inquisitioners would "put their feet to the fire".. Literally- as part of their torture tools, they would hold the bottom of their victims feet in the flames, until the flesh blistered, then bubbled, and then burst from the force of their own juices boiling inside the flesh. These kind and decent fellows also invented a technique we now call water-boarding. YAY team! After forcing the Jews to confess their sins and convert to christianity, they were then mercifully slaughtered. How blessed those Inquisitioners must have felt to be able to save so many souls! Happy Eternity! 🙂

    Ireland – Protestant vs Catholic! Hey – nowhere else on planet earth is Sunday morning so hypocritical! reminds me of that old 1950's tune "Da doo ron ron" [http://www.lyricsfreak.com/c/crystals/da+doo+ron+ron_10073483.html] except the lyrics this time are "I killed 'em on Sunday with a bomb, I do bomb bomb, I do bomb bomb.... etc " Nice long term one there, lasted centuries.

    America, USA versus the early Mormons in Missouri:
    Executive Order 44, sometimes called the "Extermination Order," was issued on October 27, 1838, and ultimately caused the expulsion of the Mormons from Missouri.

    On October 27, 1838 Missouri Governor Lilburn Boggs declared, “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the state if necessary for the public peace–their outrages are beyond all description.

    Three days later, on October 30, 1838 a militia unit from Livingston County planned a revenge attack upon a Mormon settlement at Hauns Mill, Missouri. Seventeen Latter-day Saints and one friendly non-Mormon were killed. Another thirteen were wounded, including one woman and a seven-year-old boy. It was reported that no Missouri militiamen were killed, but three were wounded. Because the raid was by the Missouri military none of the 55 men involved in the raid were ever brought to trial. Z

    This just one of a long series of attacks on American Mormons during the period before they all moved to Utah, and established their own community where they would be safe from such attacks.

    The Church of Latter Day Saints, who describe themselves as a christian church, the Mormons, are not without sin themselves. In August 1857, a large, well equipped wagon train of families bound for California, stopped in Salt Lake City to purchase supplies for the remainder of their trip to the West Coast. This wagon train was made up of successful farmers and ranchers from Arkansas, In addition to all their portable worldly possessions and much of their wealth in currency or gold, the train had along approximately 1,000 head of cattle, as well as horses and oxen for the wagons and personal transport.

    During this time period , Brigham Young had declared a state of war between the Mormons and the rest of the USA and its territories.

    The wagon train had resupplied at Salt Lake and then proceeded south for a few weeks,165 miles to Mountain Meadows. At that location, the wagon train was attacked by LDS militiamen disguised as indians, and possibly with some Paiute natives assisting. The wagon train held off the attack for five days but had run out of water and were almost out of ammunition. The Mormon militia force negotiated the surrender of the wagon train under terms that had the wagon families giving up all stock and supplies to the paiutes, and being escorted safely by the mormon back the 30 miles to Cedar City. The wagon train was disarmed. [1*] they were split into three groups. Seventeen of the youngest children along with a few mothers and the wounded were put into wagons, which were followed by all the women and older children walking in a second group. Bringing up the rear were the adult males of the Baker-Fancher party, each walking with an armed Mormon militiaman at his right. Making their way back northeast towards Cedar City, the three groups gradually became strung out and visually separated by shrubs and a shallow hill. After about 1.5 miles (2 kilometers) Higbee gave the prearranged order, "Do Your Duty!"[31] Each Mormon then turned and killed the man he was guarding. All of the men, women, older children and wounded were massacred by the Mormon militia and Paiutes who had hidden nearby. Approximately seventeen children were spared because of their young age, and were taken in by local Mormon families." Approximately 120 people were murdered. Video dramatization: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2kLSRgh370

    Last but never least: The European Crusades: the Christian War of Religious Genocide. [But hey, We're the good guys! ] From 1095 to 1291 AD, various groups of Christian Europeans started 18 different Wars by invading the middle east to conquer Jerusalem and the Holy Land. Some were also started in the 1400's. enormous amounts of bloodshed and ruination were the result. The inherited legacy of hate is still active today, living on as the Muslim hate for all of the christian parts of the world, and especially for the USA.

    It will never end, but someday, maybe, We humans will stop practicing these superstitious mythologies and become actual civilized creatures. It may never happen, but until humanity as a whole drops these stupid, irrational belief system, it will just keep happening.

    [1*] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_and_siege_of_the_Mountain_Meadows_massacre#The_Massacre

    April 7, 2011 at 11:52 am | Reply
  21. george humphrey

    two more citations for the above content, one part of the post was copied from:

    The part of the posting that started with : America, USA versus the early Mormons in Missouri:
    is populated entirely with test cut and pasted from that URL listed just above. I forgot to include it in the original post. I was interrupted in the middle and forgot to go back and do it.

    Another URL about that event:

    April 7, 2011 at 12:00 pm | Reply
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