Editor's Note: Daoud Kuttab a Palestinian journalist and former Ferris Professor of Journalism at Princeton University. He is also the founder of AmmanNet, the Arab world's first internet radio station.
By Daoud Kuttab - Special to CNN
I place the chances for the birth of a Palestinian state this fall at fifty-fifty. The world community, including the United States, seems to favor the idea. Yet there is clearly a lack of political will and muscle for pushing Israel to seriously negotiate the emergence of Palestine. Meanwhile, the major countries, especially the U.S., are not enthusiastic about a unilateral declaration of Palestinian statehood accompanied by a United Nations birth certificate.
After all these years, why now?
Momentum for the emergence of statehood this fall came from two sources. It began two years ago with a serious plan for obtaining statehood set forth by Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad. In addition, speaking at the United Nations General Assembly last year, President Obama supported this process by stating that Palestine should become a full member of the United Nations by the fall of 2011.
This American green light failed to move Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government towards serious negotiations.
When the Americans and the rest of the world community called on Israel to stop settling in areas earmarked for Palestine, the Israelis considered such a call a precondition to negotiations and refused to extend a 10-month slow down of settlement activities.
The ups and downs of the political negotiations did not faze Salam Fayyad, who continued implementing his plan. Fayyad’s plan has since won the approval of the World Bank and major Latin American and European countries. France has made it clear that it will recognize Palestine once it is announced. Norway, Spain and Italy have made positive indications in favor of Palestinian statehood.
Israel’s failure to adhere to the requirements of the talks and America’s reluctance to adopt the Palestinian unilateral plan have slowed the effectiveness of the Quartet - made up of the U.S., the UN, Europe and Russia. The past two high-level meetings of the Quartet were postponed because of differences within the entities over the public declaration that the 1967 borders should constitute the main reference point for the state of Palestine.
The failure of the peace talks - due to Israel’s intransigence and the inability of the Quartet - coupled with the world praise for the performance of the Fayyad government have all paved the way for the possible unilateral declaration of a Palestinian state. Over 140 countries have indicated that they would support such a declaration when it comes up for a vote in the UN.
This number might even go higher once the reluctant countries of Europe make up their mind. The U.S., which has consistently been an ally of the Israelis, has kept is position close to its chest. Both the U.S. president and the Israeli prime minister have indicated that they plan to make major speeches on the issue.
The number two Republican in Congress, Eric Cantor, seems to have more loyalty to Israel than his own government. He pushed for and succeeded in getting the U.S. Congress to invite Israel’s prime minister to address a joint session. The rare invitation has been criticized in many circles, including in Israel, where pundits have said that Netanyahu should address his own people about any new plan before addressing the American people.
Politically, Palestinian leaders have been trying hard to convince the Israelis of their commitment to peace. The Palestinian president has publicly opposed any militarization of anti-Israeli protests and has declared his opposition to a third intifada. But the Palestinian public is concerned that the existence of the most moderate Palestinian leadership to date is a weakness rather than a strength.
On the ground, the big question continues to be what will happen the day after the unilateral declaration of Palestinian statehood at the UN. Memories of Israel’s own declaration on May 15, 1948 have been cited as one example of what might happen. Although no major war is expected upon the declaration, some expect that there will be movements on the ground to implement and extract sovereignty on Palestinian land.
An incident that took place last week might indicate what lies ahead: An Israeli vehicle carrying settlers entered the Palestinian city of Nablus without any coordination with the Palestinian Authority. When settlers refused to accept Palestinian sovereignty over the area where Joseph’s tomb is located, an altercation took place that led to an Israeli settler getting killed by the fire of a Palestinian police person stationed in the area.
For some time, the Palestinian security forces have been criticized as being dormant and ineffective in defending Palestinians and their interests. There are tens of cases in which Israeli settlers have attacked Palestinians, destroyed property and burnt olive trees while the Palestinian police stood idly by not willing to intervene. Some question whether the Palestinian police force as well as the entire Palestinian public will become part of the political equation when the Palestinian state is declared.
The coming fall will tell whether the present movements in the Arab world for freedom and the end of dictatorships will also apply to Palestinians, who are yearning for the end of a four-decade-old foreign military occupation. Both the will and determination of Palestinians and the international community will be major factors in determining whether Palestine will become a free and independent state alongside a secure state of Israel or whether occupation will be allowed to continue.
The views expressed in this article are solely those of Daoud Kuttab.
© 2012 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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Palestine is a state. It's just been occupied by Zionists for now.
This can not and must not happen, Israel will be much more narrow a land and it will be extremely hard to defend since the west bank are on top of hills looking down on Israel, It is easy to shoot rockets from those hills and if this happens then all of the land of Israel will be in danger and in my opinion Israel is the most important country for the USA to defend, without them we would not have had Cell phones, Intel Processors and thats just the beginning of the things we use every day that was made in Israel. We unfortunately don't know these products come from Israel because Israelis are afraid of the anti-Semites who are so eager to boycott Israeli products, So they export products without a MADE IN label.
That's really upsetting. You would think that showing contributions to the world would mean a better understanding. if people knew what their contribution was.
However I do have a beef with this type of globalizaion, that intel factory should be in America staffed by our people it's just cheaper to have in Israel woopdie doo thanks for taking our jobs.
This actualy hitts close to home for me company outsourced financial auditing to an isreali company because of the exchange ratio.
All of our lazy american accountants who developed the audit practices now implement by an off shore company lost their jobs. Oh well.
Stop outsourcing AMERICAN jobs and industry, designed in America, used in America, MADE IN AMERICA.
India, Ireland, China, Israel, Tiwan, Mexico, the list goes on and on of countries that now host AMERICAN companys (founded in america, grown in america, made successull in america) that we export our jobs to because of cheap labor, and the desire to Super MAX profit.
FORD is a great example, it was a successful company for a long time. But they outsourced almost every part of production to MEXICO minus some assembly and engineering. Is it really worth the EXTRA PROFIT? I know people who had to TRAIN their Mexican replacments in highly techincal systems, they had to LEARN SPANISH hell I know a woman who was actually flown out to Mexico to do this. Americans perfect a process and when it can be done by robots or documented well enough to teach some foriener how to to it then the job goes out the window...
Innovating new jobs is complete BS, you don't innovate new jobs every day, Industries don't just pop up out of thin air. The ONLY way America will recover is if some inventor develops a new dodad that everyone must have and is complex enough that only Americans can make it. Then the process starts all over again...
If Israel didn't exist we wouldn't have this or that. Typical exaggerated dribble. One thing is for sure....the world would have been a more peaceful place to live.
Where do you get your information? Israelis are smart, resourceful people. But they're not responsible for Intel chips, cell phones, etc. The scientists and engineers responsible for those are here mainly American and Japanese. FYI, the Intel Pentium chip was invented by an Indian American engineer, Vinod Dham.
OMG your right! Why give a people basic rights when us Americans need cell phones! Human lives mean nothing compared to Americas great need to text their friends about the latest Jersey Shore antics.
This is a reply to the replies of this comment as it won't let me reply to the individual replies. First, Israel has been extremely successful for American and Foreign countries. For Intel, it was the Israel branch that actually saved the company and help pave the way for where they are now.
Big Man, the world would not necessarily be anymore peaceful without Israel. Many of the same conflicts we have going in the world would still be going on because Israel isn't the reason for those conflicts, even amongst the Islamic nations and the West. Israel is used as a proxy to bash America and the West because of its proximity to Islamic nations and it's espousal of Western values.
JakeMan, you are misinformed. Israelis are in fact responsible for intel chips and some, not all, are manufactured and designed in Israel. Also, the first cellphone that was used by Motorola was developed in Israel. Although India and Southwest Asia do produce a lot of electronic components.
Israeli scientists have created many things but often don't get the credit for it because they are part of the research and development of an American company, so ultimately it's the American company who gets the credit.
The full name for Israel should be 'The Welfare Recipient State of Israel'. They are never never tired of begging America for more. They produce nothing but troubles for the world, perticularly for the US.
@Yoodude: No Israel's been doing just fine supporting itself with only minor support from its DEMOCRATIC allies, the United States. On the other hand, the real welfare countries are those in the Arab territories; where if it weren't for their stranglehold on oil they'd all be starving nomads akin to Ethiopia.
oh please ... wake up and smell the coffee , enough rocket and killing .. Peace.
It really doesn't matter if Israel is the most accomplished country on earth or if it is the least. Your argument makes no sense. Israel's occupation of Palestinian lands is morally wrong and unjust. MIiht (and advance technology) does not make right. The Palestinians deserve their own nation. If a future Palestine becomes belligerent and refuses to stay within its borders, then Israel has a right to defend itself and wage war, but it cannot go on occupying Palestine forever because of what ifs.
As harsh as this may sound to the good People of Israel, I would like to bring up the founding days of the State Israel during those early difficult years just after World War 2, when Earth's leadership commited to the Universal Thought of a Unified Planet as the only chance Earth has to overcome misconceptions about our very origin as One People under the Stars, ripped asunder by the strife planted deeply into the stem of our Global Communities in a very immature image of differences between people joined in One Universe connected through One Spirit which makes us all equal in spite of differences propagated by people of a lesser Nature who's only effort throughout ages has been aimed at blinding us for the truth of our Autonomous existence as Individual equal entities so they could lead us into slavery to benefit their inferior kind fed, dressed and looked after by us in word and deed without so much as giving this suggested abomination a second thought in contemplating the real evil it represents until now as a very real danger eating away at the stability of all our Nations on this World. In my personal opinion of my commitment to Global Peace and Prosperity for the futures of our Children, I don't believe that Israel has the authority in all to deny Palestinian People the right to a Nation of their own. I pray to the far Corners of the Universe and the powers that be to redirect the political forces into the Light of true Democracy and Freedom to accept their place in all and to stop every action that will be understood as destructive to Global peace in the minds of those who have never seen any other doctrine than the propagation of hate amongst the tribes of Earth to the benefit of the privileged amongst leadership hiding their true face to the good people. Planet earth in leadership is sliding down the ladder of Evolution faster than we can keep count, judging the explosion of violent conflict, fed by millitary actions of leadership against people without precedence in the modern History other than the events we all must remember when the Chinese student revolution in 1989 was beaten down by tanks on Tien A Minh Square.
When Peace between Palestine and Israel cannot be established this year, we lose power and opportunity to battle this Evil which has emerged from the darkest corners of people's thoughts to lead us into eternal darkness, losing our humanity in the process of becoming enslaved in an Orgy of Violence and inhumane behavior for the rest of our days until we ourselves become the instrument of our Planet's destruction. United Nations has been undermined by the same corruption we so loath in political Systems we openly defy. It has made my personal charge in Computerization of the Planet a Hell on earth living in a country as Netherlands, seeing my own peers deteriorate into powerless individuals unable to cxope with what's going all across the Planet without so much as chance to escape everything that happens to people by the hand of peers who's conviction of their place in the syatem has taken over their natural attitude of equality.
I don't want to sound off as a Prophet of Doom calling out to the public that the End is neigh and they must repent. I just believe that every form of Nationalism for any tribe, group an Community poses a danger to the future of our childrens children for as long as this is allowed to continue using Media as propaganda influencing public opinon to suit the needs of few. people Every discussion we may want to elaborate on in prooving justification of opinions and decisions made are irrelevant in the light of what's happening on the larger scale on the Planet.
Israel either gives up the West Bank and Gaza, or it becomes truly democratic and gives everyone in the borders citizenship with equal rights. It's that simple. Israel has a right to security so do the Palestinians! Both people have rights and all you discuss is ISRAELI rights. That's the problem.
thats what we whant
You sound just like a Zionist.. or may be like those Alien invaders who travels from planet to planet and consume all its resources killing everything in their path with a slogan No Peace....
If They want a free State... Let Them make PEACE with Israel and They could have one!!! Otherwise They don't deserve it...
I agree.
What this (muslim agenda) article failed to mention is that every time the Palestinians come to the negotiations table they don't only demand their own country, which in my opinion is reasonable, but they also demand the right for millions of Palestinians to come back into israel (notice I did not say Palestine)! They want their own country as well Israel – why would any Israeli leader agree to that?
Also, let's mention the fact that the Palestinians still refuse to aknowledge the existance of Israel as a legitimate country (even at the '67 borders). Why should Israel make peace with greedy muslims whose agenda is to irradicate it?
... And Big Man (see above post), when you say that "the world would have been a more peaceful place to live" without Israel – I think you forgot about the 2 billion Muslims living out there. Every conflict and propogation of hate in the contemperary world is propogated by Muslims – before you get upset at this statement, please try to think of 3 violent conflicts in the last decade taht did not involve muslims (I'll even give you a freebee – Russia invading Georgia during the last olympic games). Go ahead – I bet you can't find 2 examples – remember that Africans are mostly muslim.
OK...but the choice between war and peace is their choice (i.e., between Palestinians and Israelis, and the neighboring countries). As far as I'm concerned, the U.S. has no imperative to support Israel whatsoever; Isreal is a Jewish state for Jews. Hence, Isreal should be 100% accountable for it's own economy and it's own defense and, of course, the consequences of its own actions relative to its neighbors. That billions and billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars continue going to Israel at a time when programs like Medicare and Social Security are facing cuts is absolutely indefensible.
Yes they do deserve it...Palestinians were basically kicked out of their country because the Israelis had no where to go so they decided "Hmm, let's take another group of people's country."
@Lebanese: Yeah they were "kicked out of a country" that they had no claim to in the first place. But of course since the surrounding Arab countries like Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt wanted nothing to do with the Palestinian refugees, they've been forced to fend for themselves in the hopes that one day they'll be granted statehood.
@LarryKegel(USArmy) – you sure USArmy? Seems to me as you belong to the Israeli forces. Israel is not our 51st state yet. Just FYI. BTW, having a few members of my family who are really in services, i know for a fact that they do not like to comment on political issues. And when they do, they don't brag about them being service members.
@Disgusted: If Israel should be responsible for it's own well-being, so should Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt, Iran, Turkey, and any other Arab country who hates American anyway. Want to talk about cutting the deficit and focus on our own economy? END THE WAR ALREADY. GET OUT OF IRAQ. GET OUT OF AFGHANISTAN. Let the stone age people who live there fend for themselves. They could care less about democratic values.
But deep down you know the truth as far as why we're so involved in their causes: OIL. If it wasn't for OIL, we might have spent a few years in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia hunting down Bin Laden before giving up and letting bygones be bygones. If Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, or Saudi Arabia launched a full scare war on Israel, just how much time and effort do you think would be invested to come to its defense? For interesting reading: "SIX DAY WAR: 1967".
You plan and plot but Allah to plans and Allah is the Best of Planners.
You plan and plot but Allah too plans and Allah is the Best of Planners.
true that
Right !
Kuttab writes "Politically, Palestinian leaders have been trying hard to convince the Israelis of their commitment to peace. "
This morning Reuters reported "Hamas [the Palestinian government in Gaza] condemned on Monday the U.S. killing of Osama bin Laden as the assassination of an Arab holy warrior,"
Should we be surprised that Israel is NOT convinced of the Palestinians' peaceful intentions?
Why do you think the Zionists occupier deserve a stolen state...!!
There is no "Palestine" and there never will be as long as murdering women-haters among the Arab communities in the West Bank and Gaza cannot come to accords with the notion that Israel does in fact have a right to exist.
Right on, Jon!!!
I find it all too ironic that folks still say with a straight face that the PALESTINIANS are the ones denying another state's right to exist when, in truth, it is ISRAEL that has actively denied and destroyed all attempts for Palestinian statehood. The facts speak for themselves: Israel is a state; it is militarily occupying and subjugating Palestine and its people.
And by what measure, I must ask you, do a people "deserve" a state? Must they use excessive military force to flatten villages and pulverize civilians in airstrikes to deserve statehood? Must they illegally occupy their neighbors' land for decades to deserve it? Must they kidnap their neighbors' democratically elected governments and cut off all trade and humanitarian aid to them to deserve it?
Get your mind right. Israel holds all the power, all the chips. The onus is on them, and always has been, to make concessions for peace. (And by the way, suspending illegal settlement activity is not a concession.) The Palestinians have done nothing but concede and have nothing left to concede.
Also, you all need to update your knowledge of the situation since it has been years now since Palestinians, including Hamas, have dropped the whole "destroy Israel" act. That dog don't bark no more. Find some new talking points based in reality.
@AF: I don't know where the heck you get your facts from. It is pretty much a universal fact (outside the Arab mentality of course) that Hamas is a terrorist organization bent on the destruction of Israel. When they launch rockets into Tel Aviv, Haifa, and other Israeli CIVILIAN targets, are you suggesting that's a defense mechanism? Oh, but when the IDF brings in tanks and troops on military targets after these attacks, only then should it be considered barbarism and possibly an act of war? And don't get me started on the "humanitarian aid" coming in from the Arab countries, who are heavily armed to the teeth. This isn't exactly Greenpeace we're talking about here.
Israel has no right to exist. Israel was created by Jews (Balfour, Rothschild) based on the fanatical racist religious cult known as Zionism. A political identity that believes Jews should have their own state in the Holy Land because God said they could. The very name "Israel" and the star of David flag sends a strong message – Jews only. Zionists created Islamaphobia and still try to spread it, just read the comments here including yours.
So what if the Arabs fought back and resisted with violence. Zionists stole their land. Then they used the fighting as an excuse to steal even more land. A Jewish person born and raised in the US with no family or friends in Israel that doesn't speak a word of Hebrew can easily become a citizen. Meanwhile, Palestinian exiles still clinging to the deeds of their now Zionist occupied property are not allowed to return. Oh but they're such evil baby-eating, woman-killing savages with swords just like those guards from Aladdin, right? Those evillll Mooslum terrasts firing missiles on innocent Israeli children that totally aren't going to grow up and be hateful, racist, genocidal bigots like mum and dad.
Too bad the world doesn't care about Israel any more. When Israel is divided in Septembers and forced to give up the occupation and military presence and check points nobody will want to live in the Jewish state anyways and everybody will leave. Israel won't exist in a year and I've waiting my whole life to see that day.
are u ok! listen yo u r self ... big Jon, :""( .. I;m from Israel all what i can say that we kill a lots of Arab to keep a land that we took it from them by forced ,,and yet we take jewish people from all over the worlds! even from Africa .... lets be fair .
plus it s not fair what we are doing to the Arabs..we are not fair lets learn from what happened to us back in Germany.
Shalom.
dream on jon time are numbers u will see the score in the game will change
There is no Israel... it is an illusion... the land you call Israel is stolen and occupied by force by Zionists waiving the Jewish flag...Palestine existed prior to even any Zionist dreamed of a state of their own...thanks to the British, the Americans who supported this occupation, but the world realize now it was a mistake...you put yourself right in the middles of the wolves mouth
The Israeli bestseller book, King’s Torah, states "the killing of non-Jewish infants is religiously permitted, and sometimes mandated". And on the same token, an Israeli's person life is 1000 times more valued than a gentile. The book has been recommended by Zionist rabbis. With such nice neighbors I doubt the Palestinians will ever have peace.
True enough...very good!
@Johnny – that's right up there with the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and "Mein Kampf" as a lying propaganda tool. Oh, and don't forget all the Chritian/Muslim babies used for Passover matzah. You are either incredibly foolish or a rabid Jew-hater if you believe a single word of what you wrote. Pity either way.
With so much antisemitism in the world today (with the full backing of the UN), don't you think we would've heard about terrorist acts by Israelis killing non-Jewish babies? The "Protocols of the Elders of Zion," "The Anarchist's Cookbook", and "Mein Kampf" have all be best-sellers in their own right. Can I assume you have issues with those too? There's one main difference here. Hitler used Mein Kampf and the Protocols as means of propaganda to turn Europeans against Jews during the reign of the Third Reich. Timothy Mcveigh, among other low-scale domestic terrorists, have been influenced by the Anarchist's Cookbook.
Johnny...I doubt such a book exists, and if it does, nobody would ever read it. On the other hand, if you believe that any Jew or Israeli has read and/or follows such a vile book, than you are as ginorant as your post makes you out to be...probably more so.
Steve, I am a little surprised that it did not occur to you to do a quick search in the internet and find the information.
But just in case, you can watch a debate about the book here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPMrHa0Ap_Q&feature=player_embedded
Actually, he's right about the Torah — it does permit the killing of non-Jews, according to rabbinical interpretation in the Talmud. Killing a non-Jew is not necessarily a sin.
Also, God in the Torah ordered the Jews to commit genocide against the Amaleks.
"It shall be that when Hashem, your God, gives you rest from all your enemies all around, in the Land that Hashem, your God, gives you as an inheritance to possess it, you shall blot out the memory of Amalek from under the heaven. Do not forget it!" (Deuteronomy 25: 19; also see Exodus 17:14 and Numbers 24:20)
Blotting out the memory of Amalek was no mere psychological activity. The Israelites were expected to kill every Amalekite–man, woman, and child. But was this just a theoretical imperative or was it meant to be carried out?
This has been cited as "the Holy Atrocity" and some senior rabbis have said that it may be necessary for the Jews to commit the Holy Atrocity against the Palestinians in the name of preserving Israel. This view is espoused by an American Jew who is so senior as a lawyer that he often argues before the Supreme Court.
you are BRAINWASHED. seek knowledge and fast.
you sound like an ignorant rabid antisemite, quoting "king's torah" whatever the #$% that is. It sounds on par with the Protocols of the 'Elders of Zion, a document that's been proven over and over again that it is a FRAUD. It's on par with the blood libel and other horrible ideas dreamed up by those determined to destroy the Jewish people.
I live in a country that borders the US; it could be Canada or Mexico. What would you say if either one of us started flinging rockets across our common border, or announced to the world that we were going to destroy you, attack you, breach your security and kill your people?? Does that bring it home to you, just a little?? That's what Hamas does to Israel every day, and the world expects Israel to turn the other cheek and accept it!! There is no more Babi Yars, and we will not lie down and die to suit you.
There has never been a "Palestinian" state, if there were you'd be able to give me the names of it's "leaders", you'd be able to tell me how these "leaders" were elected/appointed, their monetary systems, their history. You, nor I, nor anyone can do this because it never existed!
The disputed land belongs to Israel and the Jewish people; it has for almost 6,000 years, and it always will.
If the world chooses to reward a terrorist people (the "Palestinians") with their own State, at the expense of Israel, it will be the greatest crime ever instituted on innocent people in the history of modern civilization, ranking along side of what the Nazis did in WW2.
Stop this Religious rubbish. Look at least 2000 miles around Israel. You will see that majority of people follow one faith – Islam. Todays Israel is a land stolen from Palestine, Jorden and Syria and given to zionists by the Brits.
Oh Steve, what's worse than yet another genocide such as Rwanda and more recently, Darfur? Those genocide-hating claiming Isrealis who stood by and watched and did nothing to stop what happened in Rwanda and Darfur. Seems to me the Isreali policy is very clearly "Jews for Jews and Only Jews!" when it comes to genocides. I don't like past Palestinian behavior either but I'm calling it correctly: both sides need to knock it off and both sides have behaved like awful, spoiled children. I'd like to give both sides extended spankings, time outs and many nights without supper until they pull their heads out of their azzes and make peace. Isreal is just as bad as Palestine.
6,000 years, eh? Got any proof of that other than biblical text? How come most archaeological expeditions have only dug up artifacts that support Palestinian ancestral ties? Judaism is a religion anyways, it is not a race. The majority of 'ethnic' Jews living today are descended from Khazars who converted to Judaism. That's why European Jews look Turkish, they're basically Turkish Jews. You guys can suppress the facts all you want, I know it doesn't paint Zionism in the best of light if everybody out there were to know the truth.
PS, your WWII analogy. You're referring to the holocaust of course, or the shoa as you guys call it. Although Israel was well on it's way to be created by Zionists like Baron Rothschild decades before WWII, Israel owes its very existence to the holocaust and abuses it to this day to generat sympathy and avoid criticism. The holocaust is a billion dollar industry. They tell you about it in grade school and high school and college. Museums are built in practically every state. They don't want anybody to ever forget about it. When you think about WWII, the Nazis or Hitler you think of the holocaust, not German nationalism or the Japanese empire or Russian atrocities. The holocaust wasn't even an exclusive Jewish event but ever since Israel was formed Jews have hijacked the event for the reason mentioned above.
It's 2011. When I was in school they talked about how they would shave off the hair of Jews and make pillows out of it, how they would use Jewish bodies to create soap, how they would make lampshades out of their skin. Even by Nazi standards that was all pretty macabre stuff, not to mention why would you want to sleep on a lice-infested pillow. The reason I mention this is in case you actually believe it. Because all modern mainstream Jewish sources confirm these were hoaxes. Wartime propaganda. Why did survivors mention them? Well some survivors probably were shown these items after the war, that's why. They were used to demonize 'the bad guys' as if they didn't have enough dirt on them already. Other survivors who swear by it are probably lying. As Dr. House says, Everybody lies. Just like some of those 9/11 victims that lied about being at ground zero for sympathy when it turns out they were in Florida or whatever on 9/11.
I do have a point, by the way. The 6 million figure and the mass extermination of Jews. Look, nobody denies the holocaust happened. Nobody denies that Nazis were antisemitic and forced Jews from their homes and made them wear a star of David, put them in ghettos, and hauled them off to the camps. That happened, it was awful. But 6 million dead? To question this number is a crime in some countries. Thankfully I don't live in any. Isn't that strange? Questioning history is a crime? What if you thought the number was too high and wanted to research it just to be sure? You're a holocaust denying anti-semite, that's what. But that's not fair.
If the above items were wartime propaganda, then why not the 6 million figure? There were 1 million living Jewish holocaust survivors in 2000, nearly 60 years after the holocaust. Doesn't that seem like an awfully high number? I'm pretty sure that my high school history book even stated that the number of survivors from was in the hundreds of thousands. So that was wrong. What about the mass extermination? Other than eye witness testimony where is the proof? Oh the gas chambers, right? Gas chambers usually don't have wooden doors with gaps underneath them. I don't think it would make an effective gas chamber, especially one running 24/7. The camps weren't set up to efficiently massacre people either, not in the magnitude of 6 million. No survivors ever witnessed the gassing or burning of Jews. Then we have Auschwitz caretaker admitting to Jewish David Cole that the current gas chamber was a recreation. So that's why the professional forensic analysis didn't hold up either, eh? But they found small traces of gas though, probably used for de-lousing. Hey I thought this place was re-created. Make up your mind. Well we have Nazi confessions, some of them in English even – a language they didn't speak. David Cole was assaulted and beaten by the JDL (who already had a 'hit' out on him as archived on the web for all to see). Then via the ADL he admit he was a self-hating Jew and wrong. Well the Nazis also had the crap beaten out of them and their testicles crushed. They also admit to mass extermination via vaporization, steam, and electricity and at one time the number was like 12 million. But obviously BS detectors went off and the gas chamber thing sounded more realistic. Gas chambers and mass extermination never mentioned by Eisenhower or Churchill in their thousand+ pages of memoirs. Besides the fact the Nazis need not keep it a secret, there are no photos of gassing or burning, or that initial survivor testimony said the camps were 'work camps' and not death camps, Auschwitz lowered the death toll on their sign officially. But the 6 million number was never adjusted, just a bunch of excuses were given as to reasons why.
All the books and journals on the subject – many by Jews – mostly come from incestuous sources meaning secondhand as in Nazi confession. Some books cite references to non-existent info or place mention of gas chambers in interviews despite never being said in the interview. The movie Shoah was funded by Israel and is mostly a fabrication.
It all reeks of wartime propaganda used to demonize Nazis that the Zionists just took and ran with. It was a war, a lot of people died. Jews died in the camps, mostly of Typhus. These were not good places (although they did have swimming pools and game areas, you don't hear a lot about that though) by any means and none of the piles of body photos or skinny prisoners proves anything about mass extermination – there is no proof that these are pics of Jews even. Some holocaust photos are from WWI and aren't Jews either. How can a rational minded person believe this crap? It is the biggest lie of the century. The holocaust happened, mass Jewish extermination on the order of 6,000,000 did not. Disagreeing with you people is not antisemitism. The real Jewish death toll is around a few hundred thousand similar to other historical genocides like Armenians and Kurds and PALESTINIANS. PS, many mainstream sources have come out and published this. They get labeled as antisemitism and it's career suicide or a crime to talk about it. The holocaust story is used to justify the existence of Israel and generate sympathy for Jewish people in order to curb antisemitism. Period. Again it's also a billion dollar industry. And Germany still pays out reparations. They say that a college student can be convinced that the mass extermination is a lie in 5 minutes. There is a reason for that, because it's a BS story.
When there was a Palestine. I used to be strong supporter of Israel. Then one summer I was working in Jordan. We met a man who worked at the airport. We were waiting for someone, so he showed us some coins in his desk: they were Palestinian coins from the time of the British Mandate. In fact Palestine has existed since Roman times.
Jews try to argue that it was never a "nation" — neither was Israel. In ancient times, it was a "kingdom" NOT a nation.
This guy also showed us pictures of his father and uncle: they were standing in front of the "Palestine Hospital." and leaning on an ambulance marked "Palestine National Ambulance Service." That's when it hit me: this man had grown up in a country called Palestine and then one day some Europeans came along and stole his homeland.
From that moment on, I have opposed Israel's land theft and their colonization of the West Bank.
yes there was an area called Palestine; it was the name the Romans gave to the area of Judea and Samaria that they captured. It was Jewish then; the Romans write how they sacked Jerusalem. There is even a carved fresco that shows them carting off menorahs etc from the Temple. It was JEWISH Palestine. No Arabs, no Muslims carted off to Rome. In fact, there weren't any then!!
Palestine languished as a backwater province for years, until it became part of the Ottoman Empire. And it stayed a part of the Ottoman Empire, I believe, until the latter half of the 19th century. There was never an Arab Palestine.
absolutly correct!!!!!
"REALLY", "REALLY"??? The U.S. gives unequivocal military, financial, and diplomatic support to Israel for "cell phones", and computer processors???
America (politicians) supoort Israel because Israeli lobby has got American politicians by the balls. Other than that, Israel is simply useless.
The P.A. and Hamas have finally united to declare one nation, under terror, with rockets and machetes for all. I wish the best for Palestinian people (Jordanians and Egyptians in denial). Seriously, may piss be unto you if you think you will have a safe house to shoot rockets from.
Yo Mom, I hope you don't call yourself Christian. Preach love, not hate. Turn the other cheek. Judge not lest thee be judged thyself. As a non-believer, I clearly see both sides as behaving badly and very equally so. If you're going to judge, please renounce your Christianity and if you're going to judge, please do it with facts and an impartial view. Both sides are in error and both need to fix their 'tudes, as obviously do you.
The Charter of Hamas – Quoted from The Palestine Center:
Article Eight: The Slogan of the Hamas
Allah is its goal, the Prophet its model, the Qur’an its Constitution, Jihad its path and death for the case of Allah its most sublime belief.
Article Seven: The Universality of Hamas
The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim).
Not one reply in seven hours. It's kinda hard to argue with the truth, eh? Best post yet.
As a reply to SpiderCNN, the original commentor. You are wrong, Palestine is not a state as the Palestinians refused to become a state if Israel became a state back in th 1940s. They refused a two-state solution back then and they are paying the price for this poor decision. Not to mention thr poor decision not to accept Ehud Barak's offer in the 1990's where they were granted most of their terms...and oh yeah, when the Gaza Strip populace elected Hamas to rule them after Israel pulled out 4-5 years ago. Bad decision after bad decision. Not to mention their corrupt leadership. Anyone wonder how Yasser Arafat's family lives like royalty in France? Embezzlement, baby.
I pledge to fight until there is no more fantasy called "palestine."
you are near to be called a human..shalom and shame on u !
This sadly won't happen. Israel just plainly won't let it. Even though the world would be a better place with a one Palestinian state with a fully functional democratic government where anyone can run for office despite their race or religion. This won't happen because the zionists claim that God is a real estate agent in the 20th Century.
Palestinians don't need Israel's "permission" to determine their own fate. Nor do they need the permission of the US Congress or American Jews.
This is what is galling Israel supporters. For Palestinians to not act as subservient "conquered" slaves groveling at the feet of their masters is very annoying to Israelis and their supporters in the US.
Israel's intransigence!!?? – oh, it's all up to Israel to roll over, ignore that Hamas is bent on it's destruction, ignore that Abbas' government is rife with corruption, ignore what else... oh yes, the terror that is sewn into palestinian youth vis a vie their parents, government, tv, books, schools etc.
It's Israel's intransigence.
Go back to your Palestinian schools and do a retake of the facts.
Israel will be facing difficult times soon. A 3rd intifada will take place in May as well as the Freedom Flotilla. Etreme muslims believe the 12th Imam arrived, in their minds all Arabs will be joined together ruled by sharia law. Have you seen them burning israeli and american flags? Their issues are with the western way of life, and that is what Israel represents in the middle of millions of muslims. Even if a Palestinian state is recognized, the killings will not stop. If you do not believe in the Coran you are their enemy. Israel will be more vulnerable of being attacked, and it will be, no matter what happens with the Palestinian State. Iran has cells of The Muslim Brotherhood all over gaining power with all of these revolts, and their goal is to wipe Israel out of the face of the earth. And they do not like us americans either. We got to keep in mind that our main allied in that region is Israel.
Commentators, the United States government (particularly the congress) and Israel fail to understand a fundamental fact: the Palestinian people do not need Israel's "permission" to determine their own fate. This is what is confounding Israel and their American supporters: for sixty years, they have been comfortable with the idea that Palestinians only exist because Israel "allows" them to. For example, Israel has succeeded in turning the Palestinian refugees into non-people — utterly devoid of rights.
While any Jew (even an Christian who converts to Judaism) in the entire world can freely emigrate to Israel, Palestinians, even those who were born there, are denied even to hope of returning to their homeland. Legal records show that a great deal of Israeli land still legally belongs to living Palestinians. 85% of the West Bank colonies are built on land legally owned by Palestinians.
Some Israelis recognize that there will be a "nation" of Palestine (in their dream it is a tiny Bantustan with no rights of self-defense and only limited self-determination). The idea that the Palestinians can do EXACTLY what Israel did in the United Nations offends the Israeli sensibility of them as the "masters" who control the lives of their colonial vassals.
Palestine is a state? It is a state of hate and destruction – Hamas is to blame – I feel real sorrow for the
peaceful children they will make into suicide bombers..........
And I feel sorry for the thousands of children that Israel will massacre.
PALESTINE BEEN PART OF THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE FOR MORE THAN 700 YEARS AND PALESTININS BEEN LIVING THERE SINCE 1400 YEARS THE WAS NEVER SUCH THING AS ISRAEL TILL ABOUT 3000BC ISRAEL BECAME A STATE IN 1967 STOLEN FROM PALESTINAINS.
GOOGLE IT
WIKII IT
SEARSH THE FACT NOT ALL THESE LIES
Wrong, never in history has there been such a thing as a "State of Palestine", and the "Palestinian people" have only been created in the last 50 years or so. This article is the typical spin and half-truths that come out of the pro-Pals, its all along the lines of "we are so peace loving and reasonable, if only those vicious mean Israeli's would give us what we want then peace and harmony would reign in the Middle East". To anyone with a shred of knowledge about the Middle East and its history, this is all a fairy tale.
Jordan, with its 70% Palestinian population, is Palestine, dumbkopf.
50-50 chance. Either it will happen or it may not. Great!
JORDAN IS THE PALESTINIAN STATE. THERE WILL BE NO MORE PALESTINIAN STATES UNTIL THE ARABS RECOGNIZE AND ACCEPT ISRAEL AS THE JEWISH NATIONAL HOMELAND.
The Arabs are squatting on Jewish Land. Jordan was created by the British on half the land the League of Nations mandated for the Jewish National Homeland in Israel.
Who do you guys think you are? Are you people truly rational? THINK LOGICALLY! YOUR TAKING LAND AWAY FROM A COUNTRY TO GIVE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY. HAS ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD DONE THIS? Now if thats not messed up as it is. THIS COUNTRY IS SMALLER THAN THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY. WHY DOESN'T IRAN, IRAQ, EGYPT, SYRIA, LEBANON, WHO HAVE MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE LAND GIVE LAND TO ESTABLISH A PALESTENIAN STATE?
palestine was a state?? occupied by "zionist"- G-d – how ignorant can you people be. never has there been a palestinian state or a palestinian people.after 48 they missed an oppurtunity to create some entity because they were overocupied by thoughts how to destroy the jewish state.later west bank was occupied by jordan and gaza by egypt for 30 years during whichs no claims for independence were made. Israel in the osloagreament gave plaestinians an oppurtunity to create a state. an oppurtunity they as usual are going to miss due to their obssession to destroy Israel rather than create anything positive. the fatah hamas agreement drives moderate constructive palestinians such as salim faiyad out of influenec subjecting the palestinians again to the control of their extremists
1) The 67 armastice line was never a border !! It's an armastice line that was to be negotiated. The "Palis" have never been willing to negotiate anything. So for the UN to vote that as a border after telling Israel it was an armastice line would be simply more pandering to it's 56 Muslem member states & would not surprise me at all.
2)Palestine was never a state & never a people. "Palestinians" are merely Arabs. Don't take my word on in, consider the fact that they called themselves Arabs until 1967 when it became politically convenient to portray themselves as different from the other 150+ million Arabs in the area. So what is this all about ? Islam ! It's always been. 0.65% of the Middle East can't be under non-Muslem control. "Dar al Islam". It's the same principles that make Muslems blow up trains in Spain. All belongs to Islam. It is why the author of this incredibly 1 sided drivel praises an Israeli being shot while going to pray while Muslems in Israel don't have to coordinate anything with Israeli authorities. This entire article is self serving Islamo hypocracy.
I'm for an Independant Palestinian state, it will finally help encourage peace in the region. Israel has to accept this right of the palestinians and start discussions on how to handle the settlements and such forth. NO new ones
i ask the condammation from united nations in new york for the antisemitisme in villeurbanne in france more and 400 cases the communauty of my oncle grand rabbi and also my agression and some of my family robbery of personal documents and artistic for me by a muslims and german from holland work for the police close to front national in south of france agress robbe and kills no reaction in var from any one police politics or citizen for jewish people joelle esther benyayer to many nazis group in south of france the gouvernement dont control them or let them do it provocation and agression joelle esther benyayer
Israel, no restraint, no concession to the Arabs rev1.
Any restraint is counterproductive. Israel must respond with maximum extreme force. This is the only way to subdue the enemy. This is the enemy that wants to throw you into the sea.
I would gladly support a major offensive against Gaza or any other Arab Palestinians that are hurting Israelis in any shape or form.
Many years ago when Sharon was defense minister of Israel (while his wife was alive) his policy was, any violent acts by the Palestinian Arabs were returned with extreme force, and it worked.
Why have we changed tactics, have we become too soft, too worried about world opinion. We are paying for this behavior with Israeli lives and damage to Israel's economy. With this approach, matters will only get worse, as the past has proven. The Arabs treat concessions and lack of extreme response as a sign of weakness.
People of the world ultimately respect a government that protects its people at any cost. Not a government that causes its people to run to shelters constantly and more.
Let us go back to the old ways and respond with very extreme force, no restraint, no concession. You will see in the long run, it will bring a much more peaceful life in Israel.
Terror should be handled in the following manner. When a poison strikes the human body, the only way to address it, is to remove it and destroy it completely.
If the Arabs cannot control their own people, extreme or not, they will have to pay the price.
There is a divine statement that says “if someone comes to kill you, you should beat him to it, and kill him first.
Let us celebrate living in safety in Greater Israel.
Remember the Arabs are the occupiers.
Greater Israel belongs to the Jewish people for over 3,000 years.
King David fought many wars to bring peace to Israel; he did not use restraint at all, only extreme force.
The expanded Land of Greater Israel from Nile to Euphrates has enough territory to settle all the Israelites together with the strangers among them! There is an opinion that the entire population of the world could be placed in the state of Texas, which consist of 268,820 square miles or 696,200 square kilometers. By comparison, the Biblical Land of Israel is not “tiny” at all. Its borders will include the Eastern part of Egypt, Sinai, Lebanon, Jordan, island of Cyprus, part of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Syria, parts of Iraq and Turkey. It is estimated that the Promised Land is eight times the size of Texas. The population of all the children of Israel is much less than that of the whole world. It would be no problem to accommodate all Israelites on their Land. Especially, as the prophets say, all the Arab and Muslim enemy-nations surrounding Israel will have been defeated and expelled out of the Land. Their lands will be repossessed by Israelites.
“Those who laid you waste depart from you. They that swallowed thee up shall be far away” (Isaiah 49:17, 19).
Israel should annex Judea and Samaria immediately.
The Qur'an 17:104 – states the land belongs to the Jewish people
YJ Draiman
PS
Indeed, history shows that only a vigorous and unapologetic self-defense permits survival in a hostile world.
Will Palestine be a state this fall? If so, how big will it be? Are the Isrealis willing to give up the land they annexed in June 1967? As long as Iran and the Arab states are hostile toward Israel, the Palestinians will be their protegee and there are to be more conflicts in the region.
Questions, questions. Such questions weren't addressed when Israel was created by UN action in 1948.
Yeah and ever since the UN granted Israel it's independence it's been trying to demoralize it every chance it can. I'd be willing to bet if you asked someone in the general assembly who was responsible for creating the Jewish State of Israel, you'd immediately get a response of "It wasn't me!"
Jon: Your proposition is rather likely, given that everyone who was in the U.N. General Assembly in 1948 is now dead.
But it doesn't take an Einstein to understand my point. Even decades ago few in the UN assembly would outspokenly take credit for helping to establish the State of Israel.
Israel was not "created" by the UN. However, that would be a good argument for the UN's right to "create" a state of Palestine.
The UN mandated a partition of lands: some for a Jewish homeland and some for a Palestinian homeland. The UN partition for Jews was about 40% of what is now Israel. Israel has expanded greatly over what was the partition: — they have stolen land by wars and confiscation and legal trickery.
See the maps at
http://www.angelfire.com/pro/canthos
They are shocking!
Is Israel "willing" to give up land they annexed?
Was Saddam Hussein "willing" to give up Kuwait?
Devon, you might be able to read maps, but you know nothing about history. The Arabs attacked Israel in 1948, again in 1967, in each case the Arab nations ended up losing the war, and some territory along with it. Like my mother always told me, you make bad decisions, you live with the consequences (unless you are a Palestinian Arab, in which case you cry victim to the world community and get mindless people like a lot of the posters on this board to support you).
It might be difficult to "muscle" the Israelis to the negotiating table when they are already there and the PA is the one who is refusing to come. Again and again and again it has been the Palestinian Arabs who have been intransigent and set impossible pre-conditions. They are insisting that they be given everything even before the negotiations begin.
The recent incidents – the massacre of the Fogel family sleeping in their beds, the murder of pro-Palestinian "activists", the cold-blooded murder of an Israeli worshipper at Joseph's tomb – all illustrate the need for Israel to continue to protect themselves from Palestinian terror. The Palestinian Arabs will never be truly free until they weed out their never-ending hatred for the Jewish people, end the incitement in their media, mosques and schools and take responsibility for their own criminal acts.
You are correct, return the borders to 1967 boudries.. BUT NO PALISTINE. Gaza to Egypt, Westbank to Jordan, Golan back, peace teaties and water rights agreements. And the next time the Arabs start a war Israel nukes the living sh1t out of the.
Yeah and that way Israel's size will be reduced from barely the equivalent of New Jersey to barely the equivalent of Rhode Island. Even then, it would be too much for the UAE to agree to.
-jon
There are more Jews in NYC than the entire population of Israel, Arabs included. Space i don't think is an issue, and as far as defense, well putting it gently if there ever was going to be another war Israel could easily wipe it's ass with any other country in the middle east Turkey Included and not even break a sweat.
I'll agree with you in that regard. With the threat of every surrounding Arab country invading Israel, the Israelis took the initiative to invade them first and, all of SIX DAYS LATER, the war was over. So about 45 years later Israel is stuck with the notion of giving back the land to "legitimize" it's right to exist among the Arab community; In a nutshell precisely what the war in '67 was fought over in the first place.
Loretta is absolutely correct, despite the ridiculous "blame Israel, poor Palestinian" assertions made by the author. Israel has proven ready to negotiate and return significant real estate to Arabs in exchange for promises of peace time and again, only to receive brutal terrorism in return. How can Abbas declare a serious commitment to peace with Israel when he just allied himself with Hamas that is fully committed to Israel's destruction?! It is fundamentally illogical.
exactly!
Wow it's truly amazing how dumb you guys are. I now understand why Europeans consider us ignorant idiots. Abbas and the PA are corrupt and greedy backstabbers who constantly get on their knees for Israel. Abbas is more Israeli than he is Palestinian, and any Palestinian including myself will tell you that we favor Ariel Sharon (a man who ordered the massacre of thousands of palestinians) over Abbas
Couple of things lets be realists. First of all, if you lived in your home for generations had a wife, kids are in school, you're making a living. Then all of a sudden armed soilders invade your country. You're going to run and take the kids, and then you're going to try and go back and fight. This is what's going on.
HOWEVER
The arabs lost the 1948 war and to the victor go the spoils, is it the law of the jungle, YES does that mean anything NO.
Jordan and Egypt never annexed the West bank/Gaza for political reasons. The reality is ALL would be happier now if they had done that in the past. So lets rewind the clock, lets go back to 1968, NO palistinan state. Just Egypt, Jordan, and Israel. People will cry boowhoo for a generation but then their children will grow up not in refugee camps or in run down poverty.
Palistinians I challenge you to think about what's good for your people not your ideology. Israel isn't going anywhere, they HAVE nuclear weapons they WILL USE THEM if attacked. So either die in a lake of fire, or get your heads out of the sand and try and build a future for your children.
Easier said than done. Armchair politics. Would you have felt the same way if your family was uprooted or brutally supressed?
I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to when you mean armed soldiers invade a country, unless you're referring to the time when Roman soldiers invaded Israel and Judea and kicked most of the Jews, not all, out. Or after that, when the Arabs invaded, Islamized the entire area (destroying Jewish and Christian holy sites and graves), and made anyone who wasn't a Muslim a 2nd class citizen, at best. The current situation is not that as the Jews have come back to take their country, unless you're referring to the Jews being threatened once again from powers who wish to destroy the Jewish nation and Jews, then you maybe right.
In 1949, the Arabs lost the war they started in 1948 because they couldn't except the idea of a non-muslim country in the Middle East. They had the option of having an Arab State, but they chose to forgo that option and start a war. As a result, they deserve whatever consequences may follow, which happened to be losing the territory slated for an Arab state.
Jordan DID annex the West Bank, illegally. In International Law, Israel actually has more right to the West Bank as it acquired an illegally annexed territory in war of self defense.
The "palestinians" also only have themselves to blame, as you pointed out, for their continued refugee condition. Just as many refugees entered Israel, at the same time, and were more or less been successfully integrated into Israeli society. In addition, they wouldn't have been refugees if the Arab countries convinced them to flee and said they could return to their homes once they defeat the Jews.
Also, there are not more Jews in NYC than the entire population of Israel (including non-jews). There are maybe an equal amount of Jews in the US as there are Jews in Israel, although Israel usually has a slight amount more in most estimates, and is definitely not more than the entire population of Israel.
There are more Jews in NYC than the entire population of Israel, Arabs included. Space i don't think is an issue, and as far as defense, well putting it gently if there ever was going to be another war Israel could easily wipe it's ass with any other country in the middle east Turkey Included and not even break a sweat.
Replied to wrong post!
And what kind of state would they have? Split into two territories, one of each is a hotbed of terror gangs, unable to sustain itself economically and with only one culture value – to destroy its neighbor? And demanding that their "enemy" provided them with passage rights over its territory so that Gazans could interract with West Bankans? Is there any other example of a country made up of two non-adjacent pieces. This "state" would not even be viable. It would be just another gun powder keggle ready to explode.
Zionism is social justice for the world's most oppressed people – the Jews – some of the world's most creative, rational and peace loving people. Israel represents the future, human rights and life. Palestine is the toxic embodiment of Islamic hatred, intolerance, instringence.. and it has no hopes or dreams besides destroying the Jews with violence.
Try almost every reservation in the US. Where are you people when your country is doing and has been doing the same thing within its own borders, fuck palestinian autonomy, where's fuckin native autonomy and us adherence to treaty obligations? Israel is only following the lead of its buddy the US, ironically so was hitler as his treatment of the jews was modeled on us treatment of the american indians.
What Palestinian state are we talking here? There are five families who called themselves the "Hamas".Those terrorist have expanded over time and now they are afraid to be outside of the peace agreement. Because besides killing innocent people- they do not know how to do anything. (We all saw what happened to the Italian guy two weeks ago and with the Fogel family story).
The UN are a bunch of cowards and they act in a fake way. It's time people to think rationally and see that only through a peace and mutual understanding between Israeli and the Palestinians it would be possible to make peace.
People today wants to get results fast. It does not work that way. we all shuould be more patience and understand that the isareli people just have the history of the holocaust. There are much more important things exepct fighting each other. Think about it.
"isareli people just have the history of the holocaust." You see that's as ignorant a statement as anyone could possibly come up with in reference to the peace process. The Jews have been affiliated with Israel for thousands of years. Long before Muhammad rode on his shiny white horse to Mecca, and yes, even long before the Koran itself was created (which has no mention of Jerusalem in it; but that's leading off on a tangent). The Holocaust happened in the 1930s and 40s. Just read about the Jewish Diaspora sometime. You'll learn about what the ancient Jews had to go through long before Hitler's great-great-great-great Grandfather was born. Oh and by the way, Jesus himself was a Jew, and there's debate that the "Last Supper" was a Passover Seder.
And America used to be ruled by Indians that's not why Israel has claim to anything. I will sum this up for you some Jews took back what was millennia ago their homeland by politicking a colonial power into portioning then claiming the rest by force of arms.
Keep your superstitions, I'd rather have babies and their mama's not have to live in fear or be warped by all the hate. And personally I don’t give a rat’s behind what the bible says and if you are ever going to be a rational human being then I’d suggest you put that silliness behind you as well.
Separate independent Palestine should be encouraged by all countries. This will bring peace in that part of the world. Because of Palestine issue all Arab world countries were disturbed. Now new revolution is taking place in Arab world and at the same time likely emergence of Palestine as separate country is good news.
"Palestine" has absolutely nothing to do with the protests throughout the Arab world. Arabs are sick and tired of being brutalized by their thuggish dictators. The whole Palestinian issue has been a made-up farce from the start simply so these regimes could deflect responsibility for their real internal problems by blaming Israel and the Jews.
Perfect time too, US will be in a very bad situation if it tries to block this. All the friendly nations could disappear very fast if it doesn't play its cards right.
The US would not be in a bad position if it blocked this, as then it would actually stand against terrorism in part of its War of Terror. Not to say that all "palestinians" are terrorists, but a majority of them support terror and with Hamas being part of the government now, the government is considered to be a terrorist entity. How would the friendly nations disappear and who would be making them disappear?
creation of separate palestinian state is difficult, because if it really happens then it would change the whole middle-east map along with it it will ste an example for for other people trying to claim for separate state like J& K in india or Chechnya in Russian fedration and moreover israel already has lot of unfriendly neighbors like sirya or iran thus it will not agree to it.
Smurfs dont exist.
No Smurfistan.
Maybe now the Palestine will get Hamas out of it and make PEACE with Israel!!!
Rabbi Yona Metzger in Israel told congregants in a Shabbat sermon recently that Jews who voted for Obama are disappointed and if he didn't appease the Zionists soon, he would not be reelected. House speaker John Boehner invited Netanyahu to address a joint meeting of Congress next month and present his plans for the future of the Middle East. Obama should do something fast to stop this Palestinian unity talk or he will feel the political pressure. Judging by the recent news on his birth certificate issue, maybe Obama is already feeling the heat.
To those who demand a Palestinian State on the basis of human rights: are you prepared to demand that any future Palestinian states give the same rights to women, homosexuals, and minority faiths that Israel does? If so, you might as well withdraw your support right now, because that's not happening. Homosexuality is punishable by death in all of the Palestinian territories. Don't get me started on rights of women and freedom of religion.
Jeez what happened to the "Like" button? Well in any event I agree with you 100%.
Funny how the so-called "human rights" community is among the biggest supporters of those poor oppressed Paletinians even though they (and the Arab world in general) are the antithesis of human rights, while Israel is one of the biggest protectors of such minorities!
Lets look at so called jewish freedoms. Want to surf the internet in isreal, sorry all sites blocked except religious sites. Want to worship at temple for the high holidays, open your wallet and pay $$$ for a seat in the house of god! Want to move your family to a jewish area of town, sorry you are subject to approval of the religious zelots. Women must shave their heads so they look unattractive to all other males. Jews and freedom?
To fight this unprecedented aggression of the west, all Islamic Countries should boycott the UN, which was cunningly designed to only guarantee the security of its five veto-wielding permanent members (China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States), and they should form their own United Muslims Nation and work jointly towards getting nuclear weapons as soon as possible. This is the only thing that the west fears and respects, and we only don't mess with countries that have nuclear weapons.
The UN is already bending over backwards for Muslim countries. Time to disband the UN.
They can't do anything anyways. A big waste of money.
I guess this proves that Islam is the religion of peace. Also, I agree with Tom the Islamic countries already dominate policy at the UN and don't really need to band up as they already are banded up, and have been for some time.
Reading this article you get the impression of peaceful Palestinians seeking for prosperity and PEACE while the brutal Israeli government refuses any compromise, and ops.... an Israeli settler was killed. As an Israeli I can tell that it is very difficult to trust our neighbors, and the best example is the peace agreement with Egypt – all of sudden it becomes questionable: over 54% of Egyptians oppose this agreement, Amur Mussa the candidate for presidency stated that the peace agreement does not exist anymore. I have no trust in any agreement with the Palestinians when for years they are rocketing civilians, shooting anti-tank missiles on children buses. Mr. Kuttab, deal with reality and facts objectively.
It should also be noted that the Israeli settler referenced in this article was unarmed and shot in the back. I'm glad he's proud of his security forces.
There is no such thing as an 'unarmed settler'. They are actually required by Israeli law to carry a weapon. So get you facts straight. And unless you were sitting next to him in the car, you have no idea. Settlers regularly shoot at unarmed Palestinians and leftist Israelis. SEE>>> http://www.btselem.org/english/Video/20100626_CDP_Settler_shoot_at_demonstraotor_in_Asira_al_Qibliya.asp
"They are actually required by Israeli law to carry a weapon."
Sorry, that's just not true. There is no such law. Settlers are mostly peaceful people trying to lead normal lives.
Documents leaked from leftist NGO's detail a strategy of fabricating stories of settler violence. That's not to say that they are all false, but many of them are. 99% of settlers do not support attacking random Palestinians. Unlike Palestinian culture that names schools, and public squares after terrorists.
Yes, I agree, its time to stop playing games and pretend you do something but actually without serious intentions. Its a time to create a Palestinian state and and then will be much easier to resolve the rest of problems the world facing today.
I find this article very baised in that it leaves out a tremendous amount of important fact. Below I have listed a few that will help your readers understand the situation in light of the facts and not your biased article:
1) Hamas (a self-declared terrorist organization) rules half of what would be a palestinian state
2) "Palestinian leaders have been trying hard to convince the Israelis of their commitment to peace" – really? Is this done by hurling rockets into Israel? BC you failed to mentioned the constant barrage of rockets that reign down on innocent Israeli's from Gaza.
3) I want to point out to the readers some language that you use, all of which placed the failure of peace squarely on the shoulders of Israel, I quote: "Israel’s failure to adhere to the requirements", "due to Israel’s intransigence", "whether occupation will be allowed to continue"
4) "seems to have more loyalty to Israel than his own government" – really? just bc we invite a foreign speaker to American we are suddenly un-American? Or is it just because its an Israeli leader?
Please report the facts with your own personal bias. It's fine if you belive there should be a Palestinian state, but dont distort reality for the sake of accomplishing your agenda. If your agenda really is the right way, then the facts should back that up. The fact that you are distorting the situation is no help to your cause Mr. Kuttab
I would add that he makes passing mention of Israel's 10 month settlement freeze, but forgets that the Palestinians waited till the 10th month to even begin negotiations and then acted all surprised when Israel didn't renew it.
How come we call Hamas, which was dulely elected by the people of Palestine in a democratic election, a terrorist organization and impose sanctions on them, whereas the armed crminals in Libya and Syria that our on our payroll are declared as rebels and we militarily support them???? Do we think the rest of the world is brainless and cannot see what is going on??????????????
I agree with you. That does not mean that HAMAS is not a terrorist organization as it has proudly murdered hundreds of innocent civilians.
Hamas democratically elected?!!!! Sheela, Hitler was democratically elected as well...... are you saying that the Gaza strip is a democracy? When have there be elections, can you remind me?
Because the armed rebels in Libya and Syria, as a whole, are not part of an organization that is committed to the destruction of a sovereign nation, as Hamas is. Having said that, not all the rebels in Libya and Syria are peaceful, down-trotten residents who want more from their country. Some of them are in fact terrorists who want to take advantage of the governmental weakness and eyeing to take power when they topple the government. This is why some in the West have been weary of supporting the rebels. One on hand you have residents who want to improve their quality of life and are being repressed by their governments and on the other you have radical terrorists who care about taking over the country.
It's not the creation of a Ziono-fascist state that has brought problems to the Middle East, it's that the jews and the Americans never imagined the natives would actually fight back. The jews will never have peace in the ME, and they should get real about their position and their numbers. Two nuclear drops over Tel-Aviv and the world will add a new name to the endangered species list.
What an idiot, Zio-facsist country and he is wishing nuclears on Tel Aviv... who is the facshist?
You do realize that one, let alone two nuclear bombs dropped on Israel will also affect people residing in the West Bank, which would mean the people you're fighting for would also die and large amounts of radiation exposure to other parts of the Middle East. Unless, you don't actually care about the "palestinians" and are just interested in the destruction of Jews, then I guess your perverted goal will be met.
I seriously doubt it. The Palestinians had many opportunities before and wasted them all. All they have to do is unite under the same banner and admit the fact that Israel is more powerful and that it is there to stay but they never did either. Mark my word, within a month or two, Hamas will be firing rockets at Israel and them and Fatah will be killing each other again. Too bad because they do have some rights to that land but they will never be able to exercise that right because they are too undisciplined to muster the power to get back their land.
http://www.btselem.org/english/Video/20100626_CDP_Settler_shoot_at_demonstraotor_in_Asira_al_Qibliya.asp
Such a complex issue, there are no easy solutions. But here is what I think needs to happen. Just to give you my basic position on this, I am an ardent Zionist – I do absolutely believe in Israel right to exist as a Jewish state and as a homeland for the Jewish people. That being said, I am in no way anti-Arab or anti-Palestinian, and neither were the original founders of the state of Israel. I believe that the two state solution basically outlined in the Oslo accords is the best path forward for both sides. In the past Israel, not only as a political entity, but from a cultural on saw the West Bank as a bargaining chip for an eventual peace agreement with the PA. Now it seems that more the a small share of Israelis seem to feel they are entitled to incorporate this territory into the greater state of Israel. This is a definite shift, and one that would be ruinous to Israel demographically. So here is the deal. Israel already has pulled completely out of the "A" areas defined in the Oslo accords, has military control over "B" areas, and complete control over "C". It's time for Israel to take the moral high ground and pull out of the "B" areas as well, and see what portion of "C" can effectively be converted to "B" or "A" areas. Jerusalem is a special status to be negotiated later. This would possibly put 50% of the WB in complete control of the Palestinians and approximately 95% of the Palestinian population in control of there own destiny. From there, the world can see if the PA is truly interested in peace or not. If so, there is a better place for a final agreement. It's a start, but not a final answer.
Cosmo,
As a fellow zionist, I'm saddened by your naivety and lack of knowledge. Never has it been official Israeli policy to say that Israel will completely withdraw from the West Bank, and on the same token neither has it been official policy to annex the entire territory. Perhaps the latter is what you meant when you said "that more than small share of Israelis seem to feel they are entitled to incorporate this territory into the greater state of Israel...[and that]This is a definite shift."
Also, parts of the West Bank are vital to Israeli security and by withdrawing from those areas you put the entire country of Israel in danger. Israel therefore cannot afford to withdraw from these areas to see if the "palestinians" will behave. Further, if they withdraw from the West Bank, it will be that much harder to control and defeat terrorists in a future attack.
While your idea may have good intentions, it fails immensely in reality.
Aharon,
Maybe in the short blurb I did not make myself perfectly clear. I never stated that it was Israeli official policy to either withdraw completely from the west bank, or subsume it completely. All I stated is that, from my numerous dealings with Israelis on both a personal (friends and relatives) and professional (Jpost, Haaretz, IDF, Ynet, etc), there seems to be a greater shift from seeing the West bank (Jlem not withstanding) as a bargaining chip for peace negotiations, to a feeling of entitlement to incorporate large portions of the west bank as part of Israel itself. Quite frankly, as someone who has dealing with the IDF, my personal view is that Israel has such a technological, and operational advantage over any Palestinian or Arab military capability, it almost renders the security issue moot. No Arab nation, least of all the PA has the capability to launch any conventional war against Israel. What they can do is launch rockets into Israel. The war with Hezbollah and Hamas proves that this can be done from inside any non IDF controlled territory, and quite frankly, all there needs to be is a rather small technological improvement for rockets launched from Gaza or Lebanon to reach Haifa, TA, or JLEM. Two or three miles here or there makes no difference to this type of technology. This is one reason why Israel invested so heavily into developing the Iron Dome system. So there are two ways that Israel can attempt to make sure that the Palestinians do not launch terrorist rocket attacks. They can NEVER allow any type of sovereign territory for the PA, and maintain this status-quo of occupation, attack and reprisal until the Moshiach finally decides to show up, or Israel can heed Psalm 34:14 and seek peace and pursue it. I believe the second option is the best. And honestly, I've been to Israel, and I KNOW how strong of a nation she is, both militarily, and economically. It is this strength, not weakness that I see that is driving my view on this. I truly feel that Israel can follow the steps I outlined to show a willingness to make peace, and attain the moral high ground both at home and in the eyes of the international community, while not impacting security. IF Israel were to implement these steps, and the PA were to attack Israel with rockets and other terrorist methods, then that would prove that they are not ready for a state of there own.
As a fellow Jew I cannot fathom that you think that the Arabs these so called Philistines actually want peace. If you haven't completely ignored what the Arabs ACTUALLY SAY you would know they WOULD KILL EVERY JEW IN OUR HOMELAND. There is no "West Bank", only Judea and Samaria, the cradle of our nation. The Arabs have DESECRATED our holy sites of the tombs of our Patriarchs. However if we even tiptoe slightly into our own TEMPLE the Arabs go apesh*t over that abomination called AL-Aqsa mosque. The only way Israel can defend itself in depth is by annexing the historical core of our homeland. These Philistine Arabs need to be expelled and their terrorist leaders who are dogs, liars, murderers, war criminals, dictators and their terrorist underlings need to be WIPED OUT so they never kill any innocent civilians, Israeli, Jew, Arab or foreigner. I can't imagine the Arabs every changing their unbending desire to wipe Israel out, it would take generations of deprogramming to get them to even think on a humane rational level. Israel cannot wait that long otherwise it would cease to exist.
You are 1000% coorect, Concerned Citizen. That's why I believe that in order to achieve any kind of viable, lasting peace with the "Palestinians", they have to be beaten to submission (surrender) first. You can't reward their terrorist activities by rewarding them with a State. That just "legitimizes" their 50+ years of homicidal, terrorist attacks on innocent Israelis. If they are engaged, beaten down, and rendered powerless, then they can be negotiated with. (Read the writings of Daniel Pipes, a great Zionist.)
Well that's it then. Be prepared for lot's of Israeli children to be blown up on buses and in Pizza shops, since we will take away any hope of autonomy for the Palestinians. Never mid the fact that if we annex the West Bank, the Palestinians will have a greater population then Jews within a decade or so. What does Israel do when the Arab population can out vote the Jewish one? So what, you want a real apartheid in Israel as opposed to the fake one that is thrown around now? Or do we turn into the worst of our enemies and just kill off half there population first. Or just keep the Palestinians in the Shtel with no voting or economic rights like the Czar did to my family. Personally as an observant Jew I find comments like "let's just beat them into submission" abhorrent. It just show how we are loosing our souls over this issue, and why it needs to be resolved.
The West Bank Settlers movement is the number one cause of anti-semitism in the world today.
Greed. Simple greed.
There has always been Palestine, but it non recognition is due to Zionists influence in western media, economy, politics and defense....I still do not get why the land of Palestinians was occupied in the name of religion- If thats the case, many people can claim parts of Africa or Asia as theirs in the name of religion. Anyways,(with all due respect to Jewish, Christian and Muslim people) now that the creation of Israel and Pakistan based on religion have taken place as per imperialists agendas...I say the only solution in my opnion (though I have no right, it is up to the people in the region) is to open borders and allow eachother to live- we all lived with eachother without regard to religion and race,etc for thousands of years...UNTIL the condescending and inhumane white man came to suck the resources and pit people against people to sell arms to two brothers in humanity.
What history books are you reading? First, there hasn't always been a "palestine" that only existed when the Romans took control of the area and named it for the Jews' enemies, the Philistines (who were a Greek-based culture and are not related to modern-day "palestinians"). Also, I don't think there has really been any time in history when there was not conflict among people and people were living in peace singing Kumbaya. Also, human conflict was not started by any religion or race and I believe it's an inherent human trait for survival. However, I also find it interesting that you want the world to live in peace and harmony yet you are quick to call out and bash a race for, in your opinion, a flaw they may have.
TRUTH HURTS, So what you are saying that even though Palestine inhabited the lands, zionists had a right to remove them and create their own jewish state? You have the right? what gives you that right? Does that give Zoroastrianis and Buddists the right to lands because of their thousands of years history...Jewish religion is against the removal of Palestinians from their lands...If you call me a anti-semtic than know you are not the first or last- as you have run of excuses or arguments..The likes of you can only fool the "stupid" Americans among us- those who can not even figure out a health bill and do not know what a budget is. About the media, economic, political power..I say we figure out the facts and read books...Who Lobbies for Israel, $ to Israel, Arms to Israel, Israel influence on politics, Israels control of media, How much of commercial property are owned by dual Israeli-American citizens, and big corps connection with Israel...I do not mind ties all countries have it but Zionists influence in American affairs is troublesome..again there should be a balance in influence so American soverignty is not sacrificed.
There never was a "nation" of Israel. Not until 1949, when it was recognized by the United Nations — exactly what the Palestinians are seeking today. They don't need Israel's "permission" to exist as a nation.
The West Bank settlements are colonialism: greed and theft.
All Israel supporters share one supreme fantasy: that Israel will ALWAYS be the overwhelming military and economic power in the Middle East. ETERNALLY.
Nothing is eternal.
When you base a regime on land theft, colonialism and racism — the subjugation of native people — history has shown that such empires are short lived.
Israel's days are numbered. Severely numbered.
you are good.... so lets make it all the way with the US borders to Mexico and Europe borders to Africa..
There's never been a "Palestine" you ignorant Jew hating fool. That name means Philistia, thus Philistines in Latin when the Romans defeated the two Jewish revolts of 66-73 and 132-35 CE in their failed effort to ethnically cleanse Jews out of their homeland. Zionists obviously DON'T control the media, because there is much more negative press on Israel than positive. So knock off your stupid anti-Semitic conspiracy theories and READ A REAL HISTORY BOOK!
100% accurate again! Am Yisrael chai!
A "palestinian" will not be created, at least not in any realistic terms. They may pass some resolution in the GA this fall, but it will be little more than a formal statement from the UN. Any binding resolution has to come from the Security Council and the "palestinians" have no chance of obtaining a state through the SC in the foreseeable future. I would actually argue, with recent events with the PA teaming up with Hamas, a terrorist organization, that the "palestinians" are actually further away from reaching a state. The US and world governments (at least the ones who don't support terrorism) will move away from supporting an entity which supports the destruction of Israel.
Technically speaking, the "palestinians" already have a state called Jordan. The reason why it's not called the "palestinian" state of Jordan is because a Saudi monarch was placed as the ruler and the "palestinians" were more concerned with making sure Jews didn't have a state rather than build a "palestinian" state. For example, the "palestinian" Liberation Organization (PLO) was founding in the 1964, when Jordan was in control of the West Bank, then whom were they seeking liberation from? Also, it's not well publicised today, but Jordan actually illegally annexed the West Bank after the war in 1949. Does this mean that Israel should annex all of the West Bank and/or all the arabs be deported to Jordan? While an ideal solution, I don't think it would be realistic. Nor, is it realistic to expect an a "palestinian" state on the 1949 armistice lines (erroneously called the 1967 borders) due to security necessities of Israel.
Very well written!
I hope these Arabs, these Philistines are thrown out of Israel, out of the territories of Judea, Samaria and Gaza THAT THEYT OCCUPY and are deported back to Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, etc. wherever they really came from or whatever state controlled them before 1967. I also hope that all the Philistine terrorists are exterminated so that they never attack innocent civilians ever again. THAT'S WHAT I HOPE
I also hope the UN either expels nations led by dictators or that a league of democratic countries is formed, because it is a HUGE Joke.
Kahane was right!
US (and Israel) out of the UN – UN out of the US!
Your zionist ideology to throw Palestinians to wolves is no different than Ahmadenijad saying push zionists into the ocean...To bad the media highlights only one side of the hate when in reality both of you are two side of the same coin. Zionism is a terrorist ideology and it should be declared so. THE END.
Good comment. The racism inherent in the Settlers movement is overwhelming. The basis of the Settler's movement is "these inferior heathens do not deserve the land. We superior people will take it from them. As is God's Will!"
Also, I notice that very, very few people here are able to intellectually make the distinction between Israel and the West Bank settlements. They don't seem to understand that they are two separate things.
The majority of commentators here seem to think that the establishment of a state of Palestine is some sort of Second Holocaust.
Very few Israel supporters seem to understand that there is a difference between the Jewish people and the nation of Israel.
Most of them seem to feel that a repudiation of the colonialism and land theft of the West Bank constitutes a call for a new Holocaust.
Intellectually pitiable people.
To reward terrorism and bullying with a state would be reprehensible, although I wouldn't put it past today's international community to do it. If such a state is declared, the Israelis will have no choice but to annex all or part of the West Bank, which would result in forced relocation of thousands of people, both Jewish and Arab. Painful for all concerned? You bet. Arguably, this might be the best solution to the conflict, except that the newly-born "Palestine", without a peace treaty, will be created in a de facto state of war with its neighbor. Will the world be better off? Will even the Palestinians?
Freedom is not a "reward."
Israel does not get to decide the fate of other people. For decades, Jews have come to regard it as their right to determine the fate of the Palestinians — their subject people.
Palestinians do not need Jewish "permission" to have their own nation.
Freedom is not a "reward."
Jewish terrorists have killed far more Arabs than Jews have died from terrorism. Jewish terrorism is what established Israel. There were several Jewish terrorist groups including the Irgun (run by Ben Gurion) and Lehi (also run by a future prime minister). They killed thousands of British and Arabs.
For decades, Jews have come to regard it as their right to determine the fate of the Palestinians — their subject people.
Israel does not get to decide the fate of other people.
Palestinians do not need Jewish "permission" to have their own nation.
@Carl: The King's Torah (Torat Hamelech), Laws of Life and Death between Israel and the Nations," a 230-page compendium of Halacha, or Jewish religious law, published by the Od Yosef Chai yeshiva in Yitzhar. The prohibition 'Thou Shalt Not Murder' applies only "to a Jew who kills a Jew," write Rabbis Yitzhak Shapira and Yosef Elitzur. Non-Jews are "uncompassionate by nature" and attacks on them "curb their evil inclination," while babies and children of Israel's enemies may be killed since "it is clear that they will grow to harm us." This IS an authentic published book from Israel!
You can always find writings by lunatics to "support" whatever point you'd like to make. The fact is that for every book such as the one you cite (which, if it exists, certainly does not reflect Jewish or Israeli thought as I understand it), you can find a thousand Palestinian authors who have penned volumes just as vicious. Therein lies the incitement problem.
Ignoring all the messages where you can tell that people comment just because of being antisemites; why Palestinians must have their state in a place that belongs to Israel? They had the chance to have a bigger state in 1948 and they turned it down, expressing clearly what they wanted attacking Israel with wars and terrorism until today. They don't want Israel there. Arabs have millions of places, from the East Atlantic to the Western Pacific Ocean; there're million places for Palestinians to have a home there. Israel has got just one small piece of land. Arabs have half world, so why don't they give them a much bigger state there, with no "evil Israel" attacking them time after time. They can live there with their own religion and customs as they like. Israel for Israel, and Asia, Africa, Northern Oceania for Arabs (Palestinians too)
This is one of the most lopsided articles I've read on CNN, full of innuendo, blame, half (at best) truths, and incredibly biased and biasing.
Israel has consistently, over the course of the last 63 years, been more than willing to sit an negotiate with the Arabs. They have withdrawn from territories in exchange for "peace", which is a relative term at best.
The "settler" so blithely dismissed by the author was a resident of Jerusalem, not a "settler". He had gone to worship at the Tomb of Joseph, one of Judaism's most holy sites, and was well-known to the security there. True, he didn't "coordinate" his visit, but to imply simply that he was visiting Hebron, rather than a Jewish holy site is simply outrageous.
Blaming Israel for the failure of negotiations is wonderful, except that it is Abbas who has consistently refused to sit and negotiate, and, in previous negotiations, the Palestinians have not only turned down very serious offers (of over 97% of the West Bank, including land swaps), but turned to violence as a response rather than negotiate to a conclusion.
The final nail in the "Peace" Process (a code phrase for elimination of Israel) might be the reconciliation of Hamas and Fatah, in which Salam Fayyad is now out of the government. Too bad that he is the most reasonable of the PA's public face....
I wish them well. They really suffered a lot. It's unfortunate that they world watched as Isreal killed 100 Palestnian for every dead Isreali.
Maybe if the Palestinian leadership would learn some math..maybe they would realize what you just said and quit shooting random missles into civilian areas of Israel. Duh.
Duh, winning!
With the current cast of characters in that region, in my opinion, there will never be peace, or certainly one that lasts.
Even if there is a genuine effort on both parties to bring peace and safety to its citizens, just one provocation, even if by
an outsider, will be enough to unravel the whole effort. How can anyone have any confidence in a culture that wraps women and children in explosives and sends them among innocent people to detonate themselves. And, with instigators, like Iran, in the region who can hold out any real hope?
Israelis and Palestinians. Two people who DESERVE one another.
I hope they won't get statehood yet. They are not ready. They don't have dfined borders, 4 million "citizens" living outside the Territories. Don't even have a true central govt nor a capitol.
One day maybe, but unless they want to provoke a war, maybe even a civil war, the UN will wait to recognize them as a state.
Palestne must have a funcyioning state....everyone will befefit.......Israeli hardliners will try their best to sabotage any peace or state!! just think ..a functioning palistinian state would make hamas obsolete....the last thing hardline israelis want
Wow, that would be nice. But no. A functioning Pestinian state would give Hamas just that: a state. ANOTHER Middle Eastern state-supporter of terrorism.
how is it that a group of europeans can go to the middle east declare land "theirs" and everyone accepts it blindly but palestine isn't even recognized as a country. how stupid are we?
well said
the thing people like john poris and people who say israel is willing to sit down and negotiate is that israel shouldn't even be there to sit down and negotiate. imagine a group of powerful men from the middle east coming to the usa declaring D.C. theirs but tellin you they are willing to negotiate about lettin you live in virginia.
ppl call palestinians terrorists...they are like our founding fathers....give them Liberty or give them Death......they are generations of palestinian Christians and Muslims with no home...a functioning Palestine would quell much of the grievances in the world towards us
Except they are not interested in Liberty. Did you know that Homosexuality is a crime in the Palestinian territories? That there is no freedom of religion? Do you know what the rights of women look like in these places? Compare these rights with those that exist in Israel and decide if a Palestinian state is really the kind of state you would like to see.
So you dont have a clue about History do you, Do you know who drew up the borders of Palestine, who later changed there name to Jordan, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia with a provision for land to be allotted to Israel, England did after WW1
Your talking out your but buddy you dont have a clue what your saying.
The west divided up the ottoman empire after WW1, They drew the Borders and everyone was fine with that, they just didnt like The Jews being allowed back on there ancestral land, Beautiful land today but back then it was a desert. The temple mount was a Garbage heap, Folks study just a little bit of history about the Middle east. There are lies being told, find out for yourself whos telling them.
No, Israel will never allow peace to break out. To keep stealing the land they have to maintain conflict. They
created Hamas to maintain opposition to Fatah. When Arafat started to lean towards compromise they killed
him and installed Abbas. A unified Palestine means a real partner for peace and Israel will never allow that
because then they will have to declare borders which means no more land.
well put
Exactly right!
Israel has done everything possible to ensure the conflict continues. They need the "crisis" to justify their trampling of the rights of native Palestinians. This is not my thought, these are the words of a former IDF general and current Knesset member who founded b'Tselem.
The reason we Americans do not understand the plight of Palestinians is because we only see the side if Israel because just as they kicked out Palestinians from their lands we removed the natives from here. I hope all sides learn to live TOGETHER without defaming and destroying the other side. Again, if we believe in the one sided view of our media and fooled in a way to support one side than we will never be a true and sincere broker for peace or justice...Only those who are neutral and know the plight of BOTH sides can be just, currently our public has media blackout of the true picture, If it cost President Obama 1,000,000,000 to sell himself to the American people plus constant coverage- it would take more commitment and resources for Americans to truly understand a complex issue like this, otherwise those who lack an understanding and neutrality should step aside. Israelis+Palestinains= Brothers in ONE humanity
That is a very nice pageant speech. Thanks, Miss America.
They didn't Kick the Palestinians off there land, They shared the land with the Palestinians, until...get this part, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq attacked them and were defeated, the Palestinians that attacked Israel became refugees, The land Israel won in that conflict they dont want to give back pretty much in the same way we wont give back Texas, California back To Mexico. England wont let go of Scotland ect, ect/
No it wont happen. Palestine will be an utter failure just like the rest of the middle eastern muslim countries.
Israel isn't special in that regard either. If it wasn't for Uncle Sam (U.S.), billions and billions and billions of dollars, Israel wouldn't last...and if you say that they could, then we should immediately suspend foreign aid to that country immediately.
What would happen if Palestinians in the West Bank were all given Jordanian citizenship? Would there still be a Palestinian 'identity' and a will to fight, or would they just dissolve into the background of Arabs living in Jordan? Same thing for Gaza and Egypt. Any thoughts?
They would not accept it because Israel would still exist. Just look at their media, they do not hide the fact that Israel's destruction is the end-game and they will not stop till that is achieved.
I'm not sure I agree with that. It seems to me that if you give someone a house, a stable income, and a guarantee they're not going to be shot at, they'll have better things to do than care about geopolitical Arab-Israeli bull. I'm sure there will be those who'll continue to fight because that's all they know. I'm sure however, that a lot of Palestinians fight because they're frustrated by poverty.
A UN sanctioned terrorist state. Hmmmm, I am going to have to stew on this for a while.
Why does anyone think that the Israelis will just diplomatically give back Jerusalem. From the beginning of time Jerusalem has changed hands multiple times. All by force. No one ever gave up Jerusalem with diplomacy. It's too cherished. Could you imagine the Muslims back in 1100 AD just giving Jerusalem back to the Christians due to public outcry? The fact of the matter is that land belongs to whoever can win it and keep it. Right now that's the Israelis. Don't expect them to give it away because neither would the Palestinians. BTW, you don't see the Jews trying to go back to Germany, Poland, Austria....trying to reclaim their ancestors home that were taken from them. If the Israelis have to give back this land because the international community says they took it illegally they should then be allowed to reclaim their homes in Eastern Europe, right?
Good point. See Native American history for some insight to how that plan works.
Winning territory by war.
Israel supporters often cite that Israel "won" the West Bank and Jerusalem and therefore they "own" it. Well, it is illegal by international law to "win" territory by force, but let's say for a moment that it was legal.
That means that if Arab nations use their (bound to be increasing) oil wealth to develop nuclear weapons (or buy them from China) or whatever advanced weapons and "win" Israel back, then they would have the LEGAL RIGHT to terminate the nation of Israel and make the Jews refugees with no right of return. Correct?
OK. All Israeli supporters share one fantasy: that Israel will ALWAY be the dominant military power in the region. That the United States will ETERNALLY protect Israel NO MATTER WHAT.
Things change.
Empires built on militarily dominating your neighbors and denying rights to the indigenous natives ALWAYS fall. Always.
Guess what there already exists a Palestine, Its called Jordan, America has no right to tell Israel what do do with land it won through enemy aggression, Otherwise we might have to give back Texas, New Mexico, California. Israel would be stupid to give land back to the Arabs, Look what has happend with Gaza, They gave back Gaza and now Gaza attacks them daily so It appears to me it will only happen by force. So is the US going to Force it on Israel, Nope, How about the UN theres a joke for you, Nope you Arabs are gonna have to find some Huevos and Take it back, Believe me thats the only way your getting what you don't deserve. Because if you hadn't attacked Israel back in 67 you would still have what your begging for now. All of you Liberals here on CNN just think that giving it back will make everything great and everyone will be happy and Love will descend upon the Middle East, Yall are so blind., Thats when the rockets will start falling in earnest on Israel, but guess what, Now Palestine is a country and has to follow all the rules Legitimate countries have to follow and raining rockets down on your neighbor is a act of war.....Israel is pretty good at war Palestine......not so much, then we are Back to square one. Of course if any of you have read your bibles as much as yall say you do then you Know this whole situation is layed out in scripture....even the outcome, Hate to tell yall this But Israel wins, The Arabs Loose. And everyone on the Arab's side well they don't fare so well either. And the Good Book says everyone sides with the Arabs.....so keep your Eyes on Israel folks Once the good ole USA sides with the Arabs its gonna get a little dicey on the ole planet Earth.
Sounds real macho "Israel is good at war"
Then how come they lost in Lebanon?
The myth of Israeli invincibility is over!
The only way there will be Palestinian state is when the Palestinians denounce terrorism and reject Hamas and Hezbollah.
So...never?
here's a simple question-- between 1948 and 1967 where was the clamour for a "palestinian" state??? still the same people, most palestinians living today in the west bank still have family that pre-dates 1967. why only after '67?? i'll tell you why, untill '67 the west bank was under Jordanian rule– the palestinians where more concerned with being ablle to fill their bellies rather than clamboring for statehood, why? because the Jordanians purposefully provided nothing for the palestinians, it how you hold down a population from uprising– now let's turn to post '67, the Israelis provided the palestinians, THEIR SELF PROCLAMED ENEMIES, with food, building infrastructure, water, electricity, and medical care- and they still do!!!! so now that their bellies are full, sure, lets go for statehood– and the way the palestinians repay the Israelis for all the good they did for them?? yaser Arafat, the PLO, and suicide bombing of civilians.
to this day, what nation on earth would continue to supply their enimies, that would still like to drive them into the sea, with food, water, electricity, and medical care all while the self declared enemy tries to kill them?? Only Israel
imagine the US doing the same to Germany and Japan during WII
palestinian statehood?? statehood is a human condition of a gathering of people yearning for a common government, leadership and society– but first you have to act human. As has long been said, the palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity–let them first join the human race as normal functioning people with rational concepts of how to deal with their fellow man and then we'll talk statehood.
I can answer that: between 1948 and 1967 Israel was not occupying the West Bank.
Colonization of the West Bank didn't even start in 1967. The first settlements weren't built until 1978. I remember I was in graduate school and my girlfriend was Jewish and an architecture student. I used to kid her that she would have lots of places to build new buildings.
Why this piece of arab propoganda trash was allowed on CNN?
just look at Zakaria's and Amanpour's pieces and then you'll know why
Exactly.
I see that many post have already been deleted. Palastine does exist. What if bunch of crazy people attack the U.S. and claim that GOD had promised them this land, start killing innocent people, drop missle on you, and force you to leave? What would you do? You try to get your land back? What do you mean that God promised you this land?
"The failure of the peace talks – due to Israel’s intransigence". How about the constant attacks on Israeli citizens by Palestinians? I don't know how much of a hurry I'd be in to negotiate peace with a group that is always trying to kill my people. In any case, this "article" is clearly one of the most biased, least informative pieces of self-motivating nonsense. CNN, why is this article not filed under "Opinion"? It sure as hell is not any kind of news.
Pretty much Never but it wont be long, The Arabs are buliding themselves up to a point of Hatred so red and furious if this peace thing fails in the fall, there will be a war. In my opinion, when you have two dogs that want to fight, there going to snarl at each other thrugh the fence until they finally get to fight, Israel said in the next war there not stopping until the Arabs are ruined and have no more will to fight. These folks hate each other with a fury we just dont understand, Let them have at it. Yea but we cant do that can we , Israel would be the size of Alaska after they got thru with the Arabs, The thing is then we really would have peace. If the Arabs win then its on to the next thing on there list that they feel belongs to them, Guess what that is folks, its Southern Spain, Yep Southern Spain once belonged to them and they want it back, But Israel first. One step at a time when it comes to the World, But dang it that pesky Israel has been such a hard nut to crack. Modern Israel is proof God Exists, If it is wiped out after being reborn as the bible said it would it would prove the bible false, The whole christian religion would fail, Pffft, Those arabs though, If the Bibles Right, Got a couple of real rough days ahead. SO we have in this corner Israel, They have God on there side, On the other Side we have the Arab Nations, they Have all the Liberals on there side and a lot of folks who dont have a clue about history. If Israel wins, next step is Armageddon. If the Arabs win next step is hmmm got to through the bible away if they win......But i got a feeling we will all be learning the Koran and you gals better get used to that Burka and sharing your man with three other ladies, and o yea we get to beat you occasionally/
Hey Greggy S. You don't 'win land thru aggression'. You win enemies thru aggression. How about I come to your home, kick your teeth down your throat, then throw you out of your window? Would that make me the owner of your home? Get some new rhetoric. This old stuff you are selling isn't cutting it anymore.
Winning land through aggression is very much illegal under international law.
Did Saddam Hussein "win" Kuwait?
Did Israel "win" the West Bank?
Ted and TIC TOC, "normal functioning people" fight for their rights. Even animals do. The whole world except for the U.S. support Palastine. It seems that the rest of the world see Palastinians are "normal" people. Israel on the other hand is considered inhuman and invador.
normal functioning people do not bite the hand that has fed them for 40 years- only dogs do!!!
Oh...and another thing Greggy! The Israelis don't 'have god on their side'. The idea of 'god' is mumbo-jumbo that goes back to the times when humans lived in caves and were terrified of thunder. If you want to keep believing in voodoo, then do so. It's your right to be a weak-minded fool. But don't foist your imbecilic supersticions on the rest of us as some pretext for how modern international relations are supposed to take place.
Everytime a Palestinian kills a Jew, whats the right number of Palestinians the Jews should Kill in response, you have a problem with 100, whats the right number for revenge for murder, The Jews response is you hit me i cut you, you cut me i shoot you you shoot me I kill you and your family, Its the main reason they are still in the land today, But thats a little more then the liberal Brain can grasp. If the Jews were Liberals they.....wait a minute those Jews in Germany in the 40ties mostly a Liberal lot...yea they sure didn't see that coming did they, sorry but the one's in Israel today aren't Liberals and they see it coming like the morning Sun.
Greggy! I don't know what is more laughable about your posts. Is it your pathetic need to drag the 'liberal-vs-conservative' crap into a harangue on the Middle East? Or is it your terrible attempt at being a revisionist historian (Liberal Jews -vs- Nazis).
Stick with blaming things on Al Gore. Anything else is pretty much out of your league.
Hey Pliny if your right Israel will loose this big war that's looming on the horizon.. And just because you are Godless and believe in self and have decided for yourself how the world works doesnt mean you are correct. I once thought that way too. Israel, such a tiny little country, Surviving against astronomical odds yet there its sits, O I know we give them several billion dollars a year, but we give the Egyptians and Jordanians the same thing, You dont really think they signed that treaty for ole Peanut Boy Jimmy Carter cause they liked him did ya, Im betting on the Bible, But will see, from all the anger and rage boiling over in the Middle East we shall soon see if There is a God on there side or not, If Israel gets blown to hell all of you Atheists will have a real bonified reason to dance naked in the streets. It will mean God is dead Long Live the phrase !Life is a biatch then you die!!!
Palestinian Muslims and Christians deserve a home land....they have been natives for way longer than euro ashkenazis....only sephardi jews even have a right to live with native palestinians!!!!
Ashkenazi are foreign to Palestine and Israel
This is simply one more anti-Israel rant by an Arab journalist. CNN should be ashamed of itself for publishing such trash.
Zakaria is not Arab racist....your words are the trash
Hmm lets see, If you push a conservative far enough to the right you know what you get, a nazi, sad but true, Push a Liberal far enough to the left you know what ya get, a communist. Now the Jews wernt Communists but they sure wernt conservative either. If they had been a tad more conservative they might have been a little more wary of the wolves they were living with. But thats neither here nor there, The Jews today are very much aware of the Wolves that surrond them now. And like it or not, If theirs a post thats anti Israel bet your bottom dollar there is a Liberal behind the keyboard and if its pro Israel its probably a Christian conservative behind that Keyboard. So no matter how you shake it these days its Liberal versus Conservative in just about every situation you can come up with if you dig down and be honest.
There are conservatives that think that supporting Israel makes no sense. Why support a country which stands to the left of California on issues? And, if Israel took over the land by force and stealth saying that it used to belong to them, we may as well accept all the illegals from Mexico and give up the entire Southwest back to Mexico.
Much of the Southwest was legally purchased from Mexico.
Texas was an independent nation before it became part of the US. Same with California.
Actually Hitler presented himself as the "Third Option." He drew heavily from both the far left and far right to draw as many in as possible. He promoted leftist social programs and the nationalism of the right at the same time.
Bella. I'm sure, that FOR YOU, any effort towards peace/justice in the middle east is an 'anti-israel rant'.
But to the sane people on the planet earth WHO CAN READ....this article is overwhelmingly about 'Palestinians'. Precious little is about 'israel'. So crawl back into your propaganda pagoda and let the big people talk.
I missed the connection witht Al Gore, is he a liberal Jew or a Nazi? Lets see hmmm Hes not a Jew, Hes definitely not a conservative, But he could be a Nazi for global warming, I mean hes pretty sure my SUV is going to end the world. Not sure what his stance is for Israel, BUT my guess since he is a Liberal, He isnt too fond of those Jews over there in the Middle East,
Insulting someones point of view because it doesnt align with your own and calling them nasty names and implying they must have rode the short bus....hmm so Liberal....I love it!!!
There should no Two State's, Israel should be the Nation of all it's Citizens Jews, Christians, and Arabs One Capitol and that would be Jerusalem for all and why not?
Partly right. One state: Palestine. The Zionists should return what they stole.
If a free Palestine state is not formed, if anything happens to our Palestinian brothers, it's going to be a never ending war. Israels biggest fear? It's Pakistan cuz it's nuke can hit Israel anytime. So Pakistan got Palestine's back.
Israel is mentioned in an info and flocks of maggots and vermins coming out spitting biological hatred at the only humane and moral society amidst stone age fanatical mob. Some imbeciles with syphilitic brain even threaten eternal Israel with a shitty stinkinbg Pakistan.
Israel is nothing. It aint no superior than Pakistan and never will be. Pakistan can nuke Israel to your so called stone age at anytime and Pakistan dont need to ask Israels Daddy for no permission
it is 2011. time to stop bickering over land and make do with what you have. arguing about the past just harms the present.
They have a state called Jordan. Israel is smaller then the state of New Jersey while the muslim/arabs have
58 countries and have already taken a big bite out of Israel. What a shame..all for oil
Very similar to the idea that "jews have a state called Poland. Let's put them in railroad cars and send them there."
You are suggesting that Jewish emigrants from Europe and the United States have the right to put Palestinians in boxcars and ship them over the border to Jordan.
Except that legally the West Bank is part of Jordan, right?
Actually the railroad idea was advanced. RIght after "conquering" the West Bank in 1967, Ariel Sharon quickly asked for a study of how many busses and trucks it would take to scoop up all the Palestininian off their farms and out of their towns and cities and ship them over the border.
for details:
http://www.angelfire.com/pro/canthos
Palestinians were basically kicked out of their country because the Israelis
==========
NOT TRUE
Walid Shoebat, a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:
“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians – they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
That's fine.
So the West Bank is part of Jordan? Not a problem. I'm sure Jordan would make quick work of ending the settlements.
But of course, you are going to argue that Israel has the right to define Jordan's borders also, right?
Israel did not "win" the West Bank in 1967, any more than Saddam Hussein "won" Kuwait. Acquiring land by force is incredibly illegal and not recognized by any nation on earth. Do you think the US could invade Canada and declare that Montreal is now part of the United States?
So the West Bank is part of Jordan?
No Jordan is where the Palestinains are from and should return to instead of stealing land from Israel
"There are tens of cases in which Israeli settlers have attacked Palestinians, destroyed property and burnt olive trees"...Yes and there are hundreds of cases in which Palestinians have blown themselves up on buses, in shops, shot at or stoned cars and have murdered thousands of Israelis, including thousands of women and children and men.
Also, those Israelis who entered Nablus were not doing it illegally, in fact they were going to a Jewish prayer site that is legal for anyone to go to and they were shot at by Palestinians while they were praying.
Jewish terrorists killed thousands of British and Palestinians in the 1930 and 40's. And yes they called themselves terrorists as cited in the autobiographies of Menachem Begin and others who used terrorism to fight the British mandate and terrorism was used widely against Arabs: bus stops was a popular place for Jewish terror groups such as the Stern Gang to place bombs.
The highest death count of any terror attack ever in the region is still one perpetrate by Jews: the bombing of the King David Hotel. Also terror attacks at Arab village killed as many as 250 men, women and children at Deir Yassin and other towns.
The ignorance level in this forum is incredible
free palestine ,
why the jews are afraid of ?
The fear is simple. If you have oppressed and stolen from a people for decades, having them exist with freedom and equality is terrifying.
Israel has every right to be afraid. They have been the bullies and thieves for so long, of course the fear justice.
What a sick man this author is, sick twisted versions of events he presents. "When settlers refused to accept Palestinian sovereignty over the area where Joseph’s tomb is located"
HELLLOOO – thats JOSEPH'S tomb, a JEW. He was NOT a muslim. Why is there an ancient Jewish tomb in a "palestinian" city? BECAUSE IT BELONGS TO THE JEWS! Why would the Jews accept fakestinian sovereignty over something which is undoubtedly theirs (except to insane islamists) ?
Joseph is believed to be a prophet of Islam. The "Israelites" are not simply "Jews". Their blood has been mixed with others and their religion, temple Judaism, is no longer in existence. (Of course Rabbinic Judaism is the closest ... that or Samaritan). Islam has been in the area for over a thousand years, about as long as the Anglo Saxon German invaders have been in England.
And they can believe Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck are Muslims, that doesn't make it true. Joseph practiced the religion of Judaism (whether you call it Judaism, the Hebrews, the Israelites, the Jews, they are the same)
Even if what you said was true, you are obviously ignorant of further facts – because the muslims keep desecrating this "muslim" tomb, fool.
BREAKING NEWS: Family in Texas massacred in their sleep!
Bomb hits bus #74 outside D.C. convention center injuring dozens and killing at least one!
Over 50 rockets and missiles continue falling in Fairfax, Virginia.
Do I have your attention? Is this completely insane and far fetched? Then why is it allowed to be commonplace in Israel?
American troop occupation of Mexico day 40,640: Today many residents of Mexico city could not make it into work as they waited in long lines to show their I.D. cards. The American economic blockade has, according to sources, raised the infant mortality rate to levels the WHO is condemning. One man was killed when his house was demolished due to a lack of "permits". U.S. soldiers ordered everyone out but did not enter the house for fear of attack. The man had been paralyzed a decade earlier when he was severely beaten by U.S. soldiers while walking home one night a decade ago.
... A snapshot of what is felt to be normal for Palestine. That last one btw, actually happened.
What Israel has done with Palestine is something few Americans would accept in other cases. Displacing millions of people and not allowing them to return to their homeland. Then there's the decades long occupation of a sovereign people, the creeping colonization, the random harassment, economic blockade, beatings, unsolved murders of the population ... What reasonable person would accept this? Only on the grounds that this is somehow a special and unique case, because it involves a special and unique people on the one hand and on the other the people we call "the Muslims".
You're an unbelievable liar Allen, there were about 750,000 arabs living in Israel when the Jews declared their state, not Millions. Those who chose to stay – did so, and they were allowed to stay, and they live in Israel today, their numbers have increased TWELVE-FOLD since 1948 inside Israel, they are citizens and have all the same rights and privledges as jewish citizens, they are represented in the military, the judiciary, the legislature, the supreme court, business, recreation, media, etc. Thats some "apartheid" isn't it? "Palestinians" outside of Israel (including in the west bank, gaza, lebanon, syria, jordan, eygpt) have increased EIGHT-FOLD since 1948, There were not even 1 million arabs living inside Israel for Israel to "displace", the ones who are currently living in refugee camps live in Syria, Jordan, Eygpt, and Lebanon. Because the arab muslims keep them confined like dogs, as they are viewed as a pest. Jordan killed more fakestinians than Israel ever has, or have you never heard of Black September? I bet you won't look it up, you're afraid to see the truth. Israel cares more about arab muslism than the arab muslims ever did, or will.
You are right about the initial numbers, but it is millions now. The subtle lie in your post is that the Israelis asked them if they wanted to stay. The refugees fled before Isralei forces (rightly or wrongly thinking they would be massacred). They were never allowed to return home, which has no excuse. Every population exploded in the proceeding decades. Yes I know what black September is, just another reason the Palestinians need to return to their homeland.
Some statements made by ignorant Jew haters here, "For example, Israel has succeeded in turning the Palestinian refugees into non-people — utterly devoid of rights."
Perhaps that gentleman should take a look at "jordan" (aka: 80% of palistine, why doesn't anyone want to destroy Jordan? They've killed more fakestinians than Israel EVER has), Lebanon, Syria, and Eygpt, and how those countries literally keep the fakestinians confined to camps and NEVER let them become citizens. Israel gives them free healthcare, university, access to jobs, Israel treats arab muslims better than arab muslims do. FACT.
"First of all, if you lived in your home for generations had a wife, kids are in school, you're making a living. Then all of a sudden armed soilders invade your country. You're going to run and take the kids, and then you're going to try and go back and fight. This is what's going on"
Except most arabs (like most jews!) immigrated to Israel in the late 1800s early 1900s and up to Israel rebirth in 1948, the reason? Because they were the low class of the arab world, unwanted, no opportunities, and suddenly there are these Jews with lots of resources and knowledge and society and they need cheap labor to build their country. They did not "live there for generations", and the Jews -TOLD- the arabs to stay, while the arabs told lies that the jews were slaughtering them and raping them so that the Arab countries would invade and genocide the Jews. Again.
"sorry all sites blocked except religious sites. Want to worship at temple for the high holidays, open your wallet and pay $$$ for a seat in the house of god! Want to move your family to a jewish area of town, sorry you are subject to approval of the religious zelots. Women must shave their heads so they look unattractive to all other males. Jews and freedom?"
Not even one of these is true.
"There never was a "nation" of Israel. Not until 1949, when it was recognized by the United Nations — exactly what the Palestinians are seeking today. They don't need Israel's "permission" to exist as a nation"
I guess someone skipped out on history class, a certain roman emperor, a certain renamed country, a couple failed revolts, but why should I bother? If people like the one who said the above statement sincerely believe Israel never existed before 1948, theres little hope for teaching them now.
"That means that if Arab nations use their (bound to be increasing) oil wealth to develop nuclear weapons (or buy them from China) or whatever advanced weapons and "win" Israel back"
This is what you can expect from the arab islamists, they want to NUKE Israel to re-take Israel. Makes sense right? Make the land unlivable, kill millions of people, and make it uninhabitable. Brilliant. Lets create a little terrorist haven jutting into the holy land for them to easily detonate that nuke right next to Israel's borders. Simply Brilliant.
The state of Palestine is long over due. God bless the free people of Palestine. They have been stateless, homeless, and suffering under Israeli occupation for over 60 years.
Amen. What has changed is that the Palestinans have come to realize that Israel never has and never will want "peace."
What they want is to keep stealing more and more of the West Bank — Peace to the Israeli Settlers Movement means "you keep quiet while I steal your land."
It's a game changer. Once Palestine is a nation, Israel becomes the illegal occupier of the land of a sovereign state, a fellow member of the United Nations.
The Palestinian homeland is Jordan. Period. When Palestine was divided into Jewish and Palestinian states, the Jews were ceded the west side of the Jordan River and the Arabs were given Transjordan. The problem is that the Hashemites lost control of Arabia and were given control of Jordan by the Brits. At that point the Hashemites turned around and refused to recognize that Jordan was the Palestinian homeland. They later joined Gamal Nasser in his plan plan to keep the Palestinians in Israel from emigrating or fleeing to other Arab lands. This was done so that Israel would be ever harassed by the angry Palestinians and so that the Arab world could bemoan their plight, which, of course, was cause by the Arab world. The actions of the Arabs in this have been disgusting and yet, the hatred of Jews in this world is now such, that the world is turning to the lying Arabs for the truth! The whole thing makes me sick. Another Holocaust is coming. You can be sure of that.
Amen to that obvious summation of events. Arab Palestinians (just like Jewish Palestinians) are treated infinitely better by Israel, than by their arab muslim "brothers"
Israel is an apartheid racist religious fundamentalist state where none-jews citizens are either treated as 3rd class and non-citizen Palestinians are treated like slaves, with absolutly no rights, under a brutal military dictatorship. Check out Israel's human rights records, horrifying!
Kat:
Do you honestly believe that Israel l s worse than dictatorial states like Syria? Give me a break. The Arab world is on fire because of their human rights abuses toward their own citizens. Israel has no such record. There are many Palestinians who are citizens of Israel and who have full rights of citizens. Those that are not citizens are not because they refuse citizenship. How sad that you are so duped. Palestinian citizens of Israel are treated better than Arabs in their own countries. There is no truth to what you say.
I'm afraid your facts are quite wrong. You can see a map of the UN Partition at
http://www.angelfire.com/pro/canthos
As you will see, the Jewish allotment (it was not a "nation" or a "state") was quite a bit smaller than present day Israel. In fact, through wars and land theft and confiscation, Israel has increased the area of what was mandated as Jewish areas.
The area that was allotted to an Arab homeland included all of the West Bank, all of Gaza and a great deal of what is now Israel.
jews always try to have it both ways; "We were created by the United Nations" and also "The United Nations can't tell us anything."
And "we were granted this land by the UN, the arabs have to abide by this law!" and also "We won the West Bank in a war, the UN means nothing."
These kinds of contradictions are fundamental to defense of Israel, which is very much a criminal nation. The West Bank settlements make every Israeli Jew complicit in an enormous crime. An unforgivable crime.
I swear sometimes I think the editors at CNN print these stories just so they can sit back and have a good laugh from the type of responses that are posted afterwards.
With the amount of lies and hate the author presented in his views of events, it would not surprise me either.
The state of Palestine is long over due.They have been stateless, homeless, and suffering under Israeli occupation for over 60 years. God bless the free people of Palestine.
Howard – take a pill and relax. Your hatred of Jews is consuming you as well as alot of electrons, or are you a comdian trying to be funny. Your line about Europen Jews looking like Turks is laughable. Have a good evening from a Jew who understands your sickness. I hope thay you get the help that you need. Shalom.
Zionists here who are spreading lies that they learned in Israeli schools about the Palestinians' history and rights. Regardless your lies, most nations of the world will vote for the State of Palestine to be established in the West Bank and Gaza and Israel will have to deal with reality and move back its colonists.
Yes and they will do so out of hatred for Jews. Satan has been using you people to try to destroy them for centuries. No one has succeeded, nor will you succeed.
Greetings,
It's quite misleading to regard the issue in the "disputed area" in Israel on a bi-polar basis.It's true that Palestinians have tried unsuccessfully for several years to promote this fallacy.It's not even apt to recognize an Israeli-Palestinian feud in the geographical area recognized by the Balfour Declaration as Israel in International Law.In the Book of Judges Chapter 1 for instance,it was documented that Israelis conquered the Gaza strip several thousand years ago and were instructed by God Almighty to live peacefully with the Palestinians and other nationalities in the Gaza strip with a warning that no nation or group should be evicted.They were required to coexist peacefully so to speak.The issue is no more bi-polar.It's multi-dimensional , because in that geographical area are also Russians amongst several other nations as mentioned in the Book of Judges and in the Quran.Ex-US President Bill Clinton put the population of Russian Jews in Israel to be at least 1 million. This is the crux of the matter to say the least . Any plan or solution which seeks to apportion parts of Israeli Territory to Palestinians is a recipe for another round of violence and chaos.For instance, Israel needs access to the sea through the Gaza strip.The issue of East Jerusalem is also not negotiable.Jerusalem simply cannot be partitioned the way Palestinians want it.To say the least, it's not pragmatic or even possible.The West Bank cannot continue to harbor nihilists whose hands have been stained by innocent blood.Can it?
It's true that an urgent solution to the feud is required, but it must be pragmatic,fair and enforceable and shouldn't be based on the squalid logic of Hamas or Hezbollah who at different times demanded the extermination of Jews.It's not far to seek that this reality made the Chief Palestinian Negotiator Saeb Erakat and his team to capitulate.Their position couldn't be defended by any stretch of the imagination or logic or facts.That being the case, neither can Hamas' nor Hezbollah's.
Cheers.
There are other parties to the issue who haven't seen any reasons to agitate or take-up arms.Other nationalities.
Devon – you, like Howard are in need of help. After thousands of years of dealing with people like you we understand your sickness and we pity you. I hope that you get the help that you need. Shalom.
Israel is an apartheid racist religious fundamentalist state where none-jews citizens are either treated as 3rd class and non-citizen Palestinians are treated like slaves, with absolutly no rights, under a brutal military dictatorship.
Kat – do you know Howard and Devon, you may be able to get a group rate on therapy, which you deeply need. I would first invest in a good writing course and then a good history course as apparently you have little knowledge of either subject. Shalom.
This is hilarious, it really is. Israeli vs Palestinian death toll is absolutely lopsided. FAR more Palestinians have been killed by Israelis than the other way around. Yet many of you seem to think that Palestinians are "evil"? Why because they are defending their homes, trying to eek out a minimal life next to Israel? Or is it simply because they are Muslim? Look at the numbers, Israel is by far the more violent of the two states with very little to offer in the region other than a possible "friend". It's funny how the Israelis conduct themselves in a very nazi-like fashion towards the Palestinians, not an ounce of compassion, yet you blame the Palestinians for fighting back every once in awhile?
Some very twisted and obviously biased views here.
And you're unbiased?
Jews, Palestinians, Americans,Russians ALL need One thing alone.........to acknowledge Jesus Christ as Messiah. At the end of the day THIS is what matters. Peace will come only when this happens.
Peace (true peace).
Bob, how does it feel to kick a 75 year old Palestinian woman out of her house, on the street, so Jewish settlers from Russia and Ethopia can steal her home? Do you Israelis not have heart?
How does it feel to be a six year old girl and come home from a friend's house to find that your family has been murded by Islamists, who were so threatened by a three month old baby that they had to decapitate her. You are one sick human being to think that there is any comparison!
Oh and when your sick Muslim friends heard the news they exchanged little gifts with each other to celebrate the baby's murder. Pigs!
I bet you're OK with Israel raining cluster and phosporus bombs on UN schools full of women and children, aren't you?
What are the armed Israeli colonists doing in Palestine? and why are they being so reckless bringing their kids along on their robberies missions? wouldn't be safer if Israeli thieves moved back to their internationally recognized borders and gave Palestinians their freedom and rights?
Colonists? No, it is their country by international agreement. Jordan was set aside for the Palestinians. As to the "raining of bombs," how stupid do the Palestinians have to be to keep shelling a sovereign state and then whine about getting their butts kicked. How many times do you have to be punched in the nose before you say, "Ouch, I think I'll stop provoking this fight"?
PS, Kat, it doesn't escape me that you did not deny the atrocities committed by Islamists against that Jewish family, nor the exchange of gifts afterward. Nice dodge.
Palestinian terrorists are Baby Killers par excellence. From the beginning of the Second Intifada in 2000, they have killed at least 123 Israeli children—on purpose, not accidentally. They have shot up teenagers while studying, have tried to kill children in nursery schools and child care centers. Palestinian terrorists have even killed children at Itamar. In 2002, Habash Hanani did so, and he is currently being glorified by the Palestinian Authority.
Palestinian terrorists are Baby Killers and yet Arab, Islamist, and liberal fascist propaganda have managed to convince the world that Israelis and Jews are Baby Killers—Israel, a country whose military never uses civilians as hostages and which, contrary to Big Lie myth, is exquisitely restrained when it comes to avoiding civilian casualties during urban battle.
Arab and Muslim terrorists are Baby Killers. They kill their own in order to kill the babies of their enemies. The Taliban in Pakistan specialize in grooming 5-10 year old orphan boys to blow themselves up. Muslims, Arabs, Islamist terrorists in general, and Palestinians and Iranians in particular, brainwash, exploit, mere children and teenagers as jihadists and as suicide killers.
Wulf – wow you have opened my eyes, thank you. With your logic the Japanese were the victims in WWII as more of them were killed than US forces. You are truley a genius. Like others who have posted here your hatred of Jews is consuming you, please get help for your own sake. Shalom.
Amen. Thank you.
@Bob Dolan, I don't hate Jews at all. In fact I have 3 Jewish Roommates. And my mothers best friend is Jewish. See in America we can live with others of different religions, and even have different ideals without making sophomoric assumptions and discrediting those people as human beings. My beef is absolutely not with the Jewish people, it's with the way the Israeli Government conducts itself. Perhaps if Israel showed a bit of compassion and good will towards the Palestinian people rather than hatred it would render some nice results. But judging by your quick snap-judgement response, that won't happen.
As far as the Japanese analogy, it's absurd, therefor it does not warrant a response.
And yet you responded.
I responded to his comment overall, not the analogy about the Japanese
Wulf – I have to give you high marks for humor, it's the old "I have lots of black friends" line. You give no specific or solutions just falsehoods.
Well, personally I think the U.S should stay out of it and let them sort it out. I doubt that will happen. Another solution in a perfect world would be to form a unified state, with representatives from all the areas. Give them all representation, and hopefully desegregate the region. There is no reason at all Israeli Jews and Palestinians cannot live together in the same state, in peace, if all represented in the government.
Kat – Get me her name and address otherwise take my advice. BTW, I am not an Israeli.
Bob, check out Israel's horrible human rights records and you will find many documented such cases.
Are you really so naive or just stupid ??
Again I say....true peace will come when we ALL acknowledge Jesus Christ as Messiah. This is true peace.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN:
THERE IS ALREADY EXISTS A PALESTINIAN STATE – IT IS CALLED JORDAN, THE POPULATION OF WHICH IS 78% PALESTINIAN – NOW DO YOU MEAN TO SAY THAT YOU WANT ANOTHER PALESTINIAN STATE – YOU AREN'T SATISFIED WITH 1 STATE BUT YOU WANT 2 STATES?? DON'T YOU THINK THAT IS JUST A LITTLE SELFISH AND GREEDY ON YOUR PART, Daoud?? THE ENTIRE WORLD HAS ONLY A SINGLE STATE FOR EACH ETHNIC GROUP – YOU WANT TO BE THE ONLY ETHNIC GROUP THAT HAS 2 STATES?? DIDN'T YOUR MOTHER EVER TEACH YOU THAT BEING GREEDY WAS NOT GOOD BEHAVIOR ?? ANYWAY, THERE IS TRUTHFULLY NO SUCH ETHNIC GROUP AS PALESTINIANS – THEY ARE SIMPLY MIGRANT WORKERS WHO MOVED INTO ISRAEL . IT IS AS IF A DOMESTIC WORKER IN A HOME SUDDENLY DECLARED THAT THEY WERE NOW TAKING POSSESSION OF THE LIVING ROOM, DINING ROOM AND ALL OF THE BEDROOMS!! ITS ALSO NOT NICE TO FLY AIRPLANES INTO WORKPLACES OF CIVILIANS AND KILL THEM – Doaud, DON'T THINK WE FORGOT ABOUT WHAT YOU DID ON 9/11 !!
When the Iraqis invaded Kuwait, the Palestinians living there claimed their bosses homes and businesses as their own and committed unspeakable atrocities against its citizens. They are a blight on the face of mankind. You are right, one homeland will not be enough for them.
The Jews have a state — it's called Brooklyn.
There are more Jews in American than in Israel. More Jews in New York than in any city in Israel. Does that mean they can't have a nation?
Your facts are pitiably wrong. I have spent a good deal of time in Jordan. It is nowhere near majority Palestinian. Most of the Palestinians who are there used to live in Palestine but were driven out by Jewish terrorism (the Irgun and Lehin) and by Jewish miltiarism. A great many Palestinians were driven across the border by armed Israeli troops.
It's interesting. Jews claim Jordan is Palesintian — they are talking about Jordan as it was prior to 1967. Now they say that all Palestinians must be put in boxcars and run out of the Jewish nation (just like Jews were sent out of Germany to Poland). When they say all Palestinians must go to Jordan, they are talking about Jordan as it exists today: not including the West Bank.
So again, this contradictory lie that is always a part of Israeli justification for their racism. they are talking about two different Jordans. What these people are trying to say is that Israel has the right to define the borders of Jordan, tell it who it must accept as citizens and above all they claim that they have the same right to grab people off of their farms and out of their homes and towns and send them away — just like the Gestapo did in Germany, Poland and Hungary.
The racism of the Jewish people is overwhelming and disgusting.
II find it amazing that people have trouble allowing the Jews a little tiny piece of the Real Estate on this big planet. Jews were in that area first and you don't have to be too smart to figure that out. There are many so called "Islamic" countries and many "Christian" countries. No matter how you look at it, ISLAM was there last, after the Jews and Christians.
Israel ended up with the extra piece of land because the warmonger muslims tried to sneak attack Israel and lost. I am a Hindu from India and I will tell you that muslims do the same thing there, fight, cry, breed at a high rate, spew hate through their belief system and follow the hate literature called Koran. They attacked a Jewish center in Mumbai, when they have nothing to do with Israel of the middle east. One day you western christians and fools will wake up to find a sword up your rear end and an order to convert or die, then you will see your foolish hatred for Israel and love for the muslims in real light. Muslims killed off 80 million hindus and buddhists during their mad drive to convert and they are no different today.
Indians have a "sub-contenant" so why do not they let the people of Kashmir have their own small state?
Israel can has its little state but it cannot colonize the lands of others and subjecate them to its dictatorship.
It was the MUSLIMS and your Palies that attacked Israel and lost...thats how Israel got the land.
Yes, they did. You are right about the current state of affairs in the west. And when we do wake up it will be too late. Many will have died and the survivors will be wearing burkhas.
Jews were not there first.
If you have read the bible (which I doubt) you would know that Abraham led his people to Israel from what is now Iraq — which is the original homeland of the Jews. Then they left for hundreds of years in Egypt, then Babylon and then left the area entirely for TWO THOUSAND YEARS.
Two thousand years gone — sorry the lease ran out.
When the Jews finally did arrive in the region, they fought many wars with the people who were ALREADY THERE — including (among others) the Caananites, who continued to live in the region even while Israel was a kingdom (the unified kingdom of David lasted 72 years). The Caananites are the primary ancestors of the Palestinians.
But Palestinian DNA is remarkably similar to Sephardic Jewish DNA. Their DNA is more similar than that of British and Irish, for example. How is that? After two thousand years?
The reason is that while most Jews left when the Romans crushed their rebellion (which included terrorism against their occupiers). They were not driven out, as the myth goes. They left voluntarily. But not all of them left; the city dwellers mostly left, but the farmers up in the hills stayed behind and adapted to the relgions around them.
Yes, that's right. Palestinians are mostly Jewish; mixed with Arabic blood. Sephardic Jewish that is. Ashknenazi Jews (which are most of the Jews in Europe and America) are not at all related to the ancient Israelites. They are descended from a nation in south central Asia that converted to Judaism. They are converts, not genetically Jewish.
I made a mistake. I misstated something.
I said "arabic blood" — the idea that Arabs are a race is very popular with Jews who want to deport all Palestinians. "They have lots of Arab nations."
Arab is not a race — it is a language group. Arabs from Turkey are in no way genetically related to Arabs from Jordan or Morrocco, they just speak the same language.
Palestinians are genetically distinct and different. I have worked in Jordan. The average Jordanian does not even look like the average Palestinian. They are clearly genetically different. Hashemites are Bedouin, a very different people. It is called the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.
This has been going on since the days of Isaac and Ishmael. But the promise is more than a LAND ....it's about SALVATION. All are invited.
Duane, no matter how many times you repeat Israeli lies, it does not make them right. You are in for a surprise when the whole world will recognize the state of PALESTINE in the West Bank and Gaza, because the world does not follow your lies and does not recognize your occupation of Palestinian homes and lands.
That is what I most look forward to. When the United Nations formally recognizes Palestine as a sovereign nation. When nearly all of the nations of the earth recognize Palestine as a nation (and most likely, the US will have to also), it is going to ANNOY THE HELL out of people like these racists here who defend Israel's colonialism, racism and apartheid.
It is going to be delightful to watch. Real fun!
Hey Kat, if the Israelis move back inside their borders, can they kick the you Palies from out of Israel before they breed their way into becoming a majority in Isreal. How come you I don't see you defending all the Jews that were kicked out of the Arab countries? Is it because you are a muslim or a Jew hater?
Get Real. you are to speak about breeding, with a billions + of your people, spreading all over like grasshoppers and taking over all the 7-11's and Dunkin Donuts in the world.
Not to mention the millions of female infanticide that take place by your proud Hindus in India every year. You blame Muslims for that too?
all of u really shut the F@@@k up!!! I;m from Israel , I can tell you this,,, what I LEARNed THAT jEWISH AND arab are brother from one father Ibraham ,Go back all the way to the bible too, plus the olds maps shows the Arab were their under different name ,,,, for people saying the Arabs were not from the same land oh please then all jewishs have to go back to Egypt thanks to Moses that he free all the Jewish and help them after they got lost in the desert ,,,, so Canann also in Israel were 12 trips in Israel so the house of Israel was not what u think. ,so go and read and study and think for u r self and be human and kind.
Peace ,shalom, salam,
Except that Ishmael was the son of a concubine and slave. As such he had no right to inherit the land from his father, no matter how much daddy loved him. The right of inheritance passed to the younger, free-born brother Isaac, also known as Israel, whose descendants have been in the land ever since. While many were driven out in 70 AD, not all were. There has always been a Jewish presence in Israel.
well, looks like God has given Ishamel children ALL the promised lands from the Nile to the Euphrate rivers, and beyond, for the past 1500 years and has given diaspora and ovens. I mean how much more time left in the clock before you get "the promised land"?....Seems like your God has rewarded Ishmael's children with the promised lands.
There is injustice on both sides. We must realise what the true meaning of Israel is.....it is about salvation and peace through the Messiah Yeshua.
Kat, you comment 'Indians have a "sub-contenant" so why do not they let the people of Kashmir have their own small state?
Israel can has its little state but it cannot colonize the lands of others and subjecate them to its dictatorship." shows your complete lack of knowing history. Muslims are a majority because they forces all the Hindus out. My family was forces to leave everything but their lives because the loving muslim neighbors wanted to steal their property, which they did. The gutless indian government did nothing about it. Fools like you speak without knowing the truth. There are many Hindus living in refugee camps that were forced from Kashmir but I guess your job is to defend the killer muslims.
and Hindus never stole anything from Muslims or burned them alive, ever? Kashmir had always been majority Muslim with its own distinct customs and language. They do not want the oppression of India.
rrr..............I have to agree with you.
We must never forget the true meaning of peace. Peace comes through the Messiah which came through the promise to Abraham. It's not about occupying a land.....it's a free gift to all who believe in the Christ.
Masha' allah, people! God permitted the existence of Israel. Accept it. They aren't going anywhere this time!
neither will the people of Palestine.
We hear this all the time: "Israel is not going away." "Israel is eternal" "Israel wins all wars." "Israel can defeat any nation."
Nothing is forever. By being a racist bully, a colonial power that tramples on the rights of the indigenous people, Israel practically guarantees it's own demise. No colonial power that oppresses and steals from the native people has ever lasted more than a few decades.
Will Israel ALWAYS be the dominant military power? Will the United States ALWAYS defend Israel no matter how outrageous they become? Will American Jews ALWAYS be able to make the US Congress dance to their tune?
NOTHING is eternal.
Things change.
Israel by it's own actions has probably caused it's own doom.
@brian: source for "indigenous people" please. Your response is laughable. You are a product of Arab propaganda. If you are an American you are contributing to terrorism in the worst way and it will come back at you if the likes of you don't learn the truth and start rooting for peace. REAL peace. You are supporting people whose charter says to annihilate the Jews. Is THAT what you want?
If Hamas' charter says murder all the jews then why aren't they all dead yet? Their charter is really misinterpreted by people but thats not the point.. Just look at israel and then look at the surrounding nations.. Everyone else is BROWN and BLACK with arabic speaking countries. To think that this WHITE guy named Benjamin is a leader of a nation that is smack dab in between egypt and jordan is ridiculous. Saying that he has a divine right to that land because God is now a real estate agent in the 20th century. The entire idea of israel is ridiculous EVERY single country in the middle east and Africa recognize Palestine because they have been their since the time of JESUS. This whole idea of a Jewish state is laughable, hey lets have WHITE states and BLACK states and BUDDHIST states. Give me a break i give israel 20 more years in existence and when it is finally peacefully dismantled then the world can breath again because israel is the core to all problems that the middle east and africa have with the west and it creates racism.
Please forgive me for repeating myself but I really feel the need to share this with you all tonight. We must come back to the prince of peace. Peace will come when we believe in the Messiah Jesus Christ. He is peace. All are invited to discover this true peace. Jesus will return one day....I believe it is soon. Israel has a part in this event. But it's not about Israel only...it's about the whole world as well.
Israel's intransigence and refusal to respect international law and human rights are the reason a unilateral declaration of Palestinian statehood is necessary. Israel promised to respect the right of Palestinian refugees as a condition of its admission to the U.N. 60+ years ago but then reneged. The U.N. is way overdue in enforcing its own resolutions and recognizing a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders. If the world must wait for Israel to grant rights to the Palestinians, we'll be waiting an eternity.
The Palestinians could have had a state multiple times but it's not what they want. They want to obliterate Israel. If the Palestinians REALLY wanted a state they would do 2 simple things: 1) they would recognize Israel as the homeland for the Jewish people and 2) they would stop attacking Israeli civilians. It is not Israel holding up the Palestinian state. Learn the truth.
An unarmed man going to a site guaranteed to be accessibile is murdered with an automatic weapon after he gets into an "altercation?" Murder is murder and if an Arab was shot by Israelis under any circumstance going to the Dome of the Rock, the article would have been written in a drastically different way. Such staggering double standards simply provide no confidence for Israel and Israelis to make any more one-sided concessions for "peace." Lets get real!
Israeli settlers and soldiers murder Palestinians all the time with total impunity.
@alexandra dane: the truth is that the IDF policy is to avoid civilian casualties- while hamas targets civilians. You are believing propaganda. You are wrong. But you will believe what is "hip" or what you want to believe. Why demonize Israel? Why not take the time to learn the facts?
The biggest question is why CNN will allow someone with an obvious bias (see the author's bio) write a "story" on their behalf.
The Arab nations have subverted the facts for far too long and have demonized a legitimate country of people who only want to live in peace. They've accomplished this by teaching their children to hate Israelis, encouraging terroristic attacks on innocent Israelis, and using human shields. When firing missiles into Israel, they have done it from schools and playgrounds, so that when reprisal attacks come from the IDF, they will (hopefully for the Palestinian terrorists) kill innocent children. Then the Palestinians can publicize the deaths of these children as unjust, when they were essentially provoked.
If you do even a LITTLE research in reputable sources (those not created as propaganda by the Arab nations) you'll find that the failure of peace talks has NOT been Israel's, but Fatah's. Israel stopped all construction for 10 months (by the way, that construction is a major economic boon for West Bank Palestinians) and the Pals sat on their hands. Only when they knew Israel would not continue the freeze did they come to the table, simply to make Israel LOOK like the "bad guy". Also, negotiation means give and take. Israel has always been willing to give – while the Palestinians seem to only take. Not a recipe for successful negotiation.
Israel has consistently been willing to sit and talk, only wanting to be recognized as a Jewish State (the ONLY one). Instead the Palestinians, who actually were part of what is now Jordan, want to be "recognized" as well? Meanwhile they refuse to recognize Israel out of simple hatred of Jews.
Good luck "Palestine". It'll never happen until you act like the nation you wish you could be, and sit down to negotiate.
CNN – why not let someone write an article on the TRUTH about the Israeli/Palestinian situation, instead of continuing to support half truths and p[propaganda.
I wholeheartedly agree. Concern about why the world is falling for this. Concern for why CNN + BBC will print and reprint biased articles against Israel which lack in truth. Big time concern the world is being duped at the expense of the Jewish people. AGAIN.
Are you people still arguing about who's land belongs to who?? Listen, this is about the Messiah (Jesus) who came through the promise to Abraham to the jews, and it is about SALVATION to all Jews AND gentiles. Please, people, open your eyes to Christ while there still is time.
The land belongs to Israel. Period. It always has. Those who come against Israel in any way, including pressuring them to give up land, will come under God's judgment. Sadly, in these last days, the Bible says that Israel (and Jerusalem) WILL be divided. If that happens this September, the final countdown will advance the world closer to the final battle. (In which Israel wins and her enemies are completely destroyed.)
Jack..........be careful. Keep in mind that salvation is for the jew AND the gentile. Are you a christian?
This is a prejudiced and subjective article based on assumptions and not facts. Why wasn't a Palestinian State declared before 1948??? No settlements, no Israeli "occupation," the lands were controlled by Egypt and Jordan... Nobody wants to face the truth: Palestinians are a bargaining chip of Arab States in their fight against Israel. Keeping Palestinians poor and angry is convenient to other Arab regimes.
Why no Palestine before 1967?
Good article, however the vast majority of the US TV and Print Media are completely biased and one-sided in favor of apartheid israel. Israel is in clear violation of many UN resolutions and international laws pertaining to their illegal occupation of Palestinian land since 1967. If israel is seriously interested in peace, they must withdraw from the entire west bank and east jerusalem. Anything less will be unacceptable to the entire world.
Israel is an an apatheid state...
where Israeli arabs say they prefer to live under Israeli law than that of the palestinians.
Israel is an an apatheid state...
where jewish kids go to the army at the age of 18 while the Israeli arabs go to university.
Israel is an an apatheid state...
where after serving and risking there lives jewish students are not accepted to universities beacuse there are slots reserved for arabs.
Israel is an an apatheid state...
where arab students are more than free to chant anti-Israeli slogans and lift palestinian flags while they are protected by Israeli police.
Israel is an an apatheid state...
where arabs work as chief doctors at all hospitals.
Israel is an an apatheid state...
where arab MK's feel more than free to bash out at Israel on the main podium.
yep – Israel is an an apatheid state...
where terrorists who with there own hands killed Israeli men, women and children recieve family visits and university studies funded by Israel, while a lone Israeli soldier in gaza doesn't even recieve a visit from the red cross!!!
ISRAEL IS AN APARTHEID STATE!!!
WHERE MORE THAN 8000 ROCKETS ARE FIRED DELIBERATLY AT CIVILIAN POPULATION... BUT WHEN ISRAEL USES THE LATEST MOST EXPENSIVE AND ACCURATE WEAPON IN ORDER TO AVOID CIVILIAN CASSUALTIES THE WORLD SHOUTS "WAR CRIMES"!!
ISRAEL IS AN APARTHEID STATE!!!!!!
to all the readers of my thought posted here who really do want peace – something to think about...
to all those who will still be obssesed with condeming Israel – you are stupid beyond repair.
And yes, Israel is an apartheid state – where it kills Palestinian civilians, demolishes Palestinian homes with American supplied Caterpillar Bulldozers, launches air attacks with F-16s fighters on stone throwers.
Yes, Israel is an apartheid state because it blocks basic amenities to Palestinian civilians.
And – Oh, Yes – Israel is beggar state because it takes away my US tax dollars.
NUKE USA then Peace in the whole world, Palestine will raise again.
haha you just said it all. This is what the western world is fighting against and ISRAEL is on the front lines.
Can you please refresh my memory: when EXACTLY Palestine rose the previous time? Oh, right... There never been a Palestine... There was only a JEWISH state, JEWISH continuous presence on the land, JEWISH state that rose again by UN declaration... So please, remind me – when exactly PALESTINE rose? May be you refer to the black september in Jordan, when fellow Arabs slaughtered Palestinian fugitives? May be you refer to the fact that NO ARAB STATE WILLS TO TOLERATE PALESTINIAN NEWCOMERS WITHIN ITS BORDERS? What rising are you referring to? Please be precise....
Where is CNN publishing the other side of this story. This article is pure propaganda. Israel won't negotiate? Israel keeps building settlements? WAKE UP WORLD. Israel agreed to freeze settlement building for 10 months and followed through with that having been promised negotiations. No negotiations until the 10th month- obviously so the Palestinians could whine about Israel starting to build again. Now that Hamas and Fatah have "unified" they can kiss their Palestinian state goodbye.
Israel wants peace. Pals need to accept Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State and stop firing rockets into Israeli cities. They know that- and they won't do it. The Palestinian people are being held hostage by a terrorist organization whose charter calls for the annihilation of the Jews. That is NOT okay.
You are right cinge, but truth will come out eventually.
CNN has an anti Israeli agenda.
In reality, the life of arabs in Israel are the best in the region !
Arabs are slottered by their leaders in hundreds all over the middle east , try to focus on that
instead of publish palestinian propogand...
NO Israel; WILL NOT tolerate a state run by people whotill deney its right to exist and who fire rockets & mortars at them.
A new Palestinian state would immediately become another IRAN – simple as that. Isreal would have to destroy them.
It really is.
for all you americans that are cursing out israel and praising the palestinians dont forget a few short years ago by 911 thousands of palestinians were dancing in the street when americans were dyeing
another muslim failed state , most likly turn out suicide bombers , i dont expect anything good coming from this new country to be , only blood.
im looking forward for the day after when the arab countries give 72 hours for the so called palestinians to leave , hope they have alot of tents in palestinian and toilets its going to be messy..man i hope we dont have to pay for the mess thats coming
when is CNN going to start being fair and objective in their coverage of this issue? dang.
Palestine statehood is no longer and should not depend on commitment to peace. Palestinine state is about Palestinian people aspiration, dreams, hopes, Freedom from occupation, and security of palestinian.
This fall Israles (not Israel Gov.) must decide if they support aspiration their neighbors and their freedom or would they like to occupy, kill and destroy in the name of the road to peace with the neighbors. November is comming. Palestinian factions in reconciliation. PAL will be a state. a Free state. Even if it have to be unilateral. It's so close. Do you feel it. Do you hear it. Taste of Freedom. Do you see comming. Will Palestinine do.
"Palestinian people aspiration, dreams, hopes, Freedom from occupation, and security of palestinian.". Right said: freedom from occupation. Without Israel, there is no occupation for Palestinians. Ask those in Gaza who lost jobs in Israel due to HAMAS attacks on the southern regions of Israel and following border closure – what their dreams are? Do hungry people dream about independence of state? Or about putting food on table? Does the government that causes it's own people to be hungry deserves to be addressed as "liberators"? Or can we recall past century examples of such governments?
Both countries – Israel and Palestine – could and would co-exist once instead of "dreams" people will start bothering themselves with real things – food, shelter, education, culture. Nothing will happen while the people of both countries are lead by poisonous ideology based on ethnic and religious xenofobia...
check the legal requirements for International recognition of statehood people. The Palestinians possess none of them. Until they do, no state....
"The world community, including the United States, seems to favor the idea"!?! More Palestinian mental masturbation!
The "declarative" theory defines a state as a person in international law if it meets the following criteria: 1) a defined territory; 2) a permanent population; 3) a government and 4) a capacity to enter into relations with other states. According to declarative theory, an entity's statehood is independent of its recognition by other states. The declarative model was most famously expressed in the 1933 Montevideo Convention.
The Palestinians possess none of these criteria. So much for Mr. Kuttab's "expertise"!
This is good way to implement and extract sovereignty of the land – to kill the unarmed man at the prayer place, but it iis not harsh anougth – he should been eaten alive by palestinians (this will implement and extract sovereignty much better)
In practice Palestinian ethic wrong they refuse temporary borders which basic build in line Israel security fence. Their refuse is cause suffering not Israel. Israel even gave Gaze strip over Palestinian readily give about 50% West Bank.
There never been a Palestine. Check your sources, Rome hated Jews so they re-named Israel Syria-Palestina.
yeah, rewrite the history!
Arabs came from Mars on 1993, before that, the world lived in peace, Jews and Romans!
how doesnt hate you
This article was based on wishful thinking and romantic ideas It has nothing to do with was going on. The main issue and reason why there is no palestinian state yet is called Hamas, and it is not even mentioned. There is a country wit 7 million people called Israel and another one with about 6 million (including the refugrees) called palestine. That is a fact and there is no point in arguing if it was a good thing or the right thing that these countries exist. They exist and the only rational thing to do now is find a formula to that will allow them to coexist in peace and prosperity. The solution proposed by Hamas is fighting Israel until the 6 million jews that live there dedicde to go to live somewhere else. The solution proposed by the settlers (in the extreme israeli right) is push and repress the palestinians until they go somewhere else. These are absurd positions, yet they are the ones been enforced until now. Missiles are launched to Israeli civilians by Hamas all the time and the settlements are expanding and Palestinians are being repressed and deprived from freedom. As long as Hamas in Palestine and the extremist right in Israel are in power, there will be no peace. The people should realize that and better leaderships should arise in both sides so they can put an end to this madness.
In reality, the life of arabs in Israel are the best in the region !
Arabs are slottered in hundreds by their own leaders all over the middle east , try to focus on that
instead of publish palestinian propogand...
Israel will love to live in peace along a peacefull Palestinian state, but can arabs accept Israel ???
if so why does isreal unillaterlly pull out of the occupied palestine make a big wall and let the palestinians have ther on country and tell me how is apalestian living in isreal is better off than any were else do you now what it means to be a second class citizen in your own country to live under apartied ill buy u a ticket to gaza see if u can bare the conditions they live in ass hole
Palestine is a sovereign state occupied by Zionists. As long as brainless Obama is in office, it will not be freed.
This will never happen until the Plaistinains lay down their arms and recognize Israel and sign a peace agreement this will only happen in the end times when the Messiah Comes!
Also their has never been a "Palistinain State" in Hitory it never was. You had the Philistines in which where Greek and they had the Country so what are they clamming nothing they have nothing and any land they had they lost in war the laws of war is you attack you loose you loose your land why should they be any diffrent? They are murders of inocent women and children they are not educated all they know is "Kill The Jews"
no dude we only whant to kill zionist becouse ther are many jews who are aginst isreal they can live, just dont come to palestine
because of what hitler did to the jews during the holocaust, the other powerfull countries said "poor jews, they need a place to live" but no country wanted them so then they were like " lets dump them in palestine" so naturally the palestinean people were angry and revolted, and denies the existance of isreal. think about it this way, your an american living the american dream, when, all of a sudden, chinese people take over america claming it was there country centuries ago.taking 80% of the land. killing americans in there way and occupying it with chinese people. would you just sit down and say "we should have a peace agreement!" i dont think so.
how can isreal call itself the only democracy in the middle east when the only people that can become acitizen is jews dont get confused about whothey are they do not share the same values as america .we do not practice apartied we do not kill innocent people becouse they are not the same as we are
Ma'am you need a spell check – and possibly a reality check
This is one of the funniest articles I've ever read. "There is clearly a lack of political will and muscle for pushing Israel to seriously negotiate the emergence of Palestine." Wow!!! The Palestinian Authority has steadfastly refused to negotiate for two years, while Israel has virtually begged them to negotiate. Get real, guys.
Just free them from the occupation. Let them be. Lets close that chapter. give them their land.
Give them a chance to have a nation....Either way things are obviously not working...so maybe being a nation they pick up on the arab movement right now trying to choose. Let them be
If the Palestine want to be come a Country... They should make PEACE with Israel first!!! Otherwise there will never Be PEACe there...
Watch this, Occupation 101, and then comment:
If the UN wasn't run by the Arab League it would only happen with PEACE!!! The United States, England and Other Countries from Countries should drop out of the UN and kick them out of the United States... The United States should Be the only Country in charge of it!!! After all it is in Our Country...
The whole idea of an independent Palestinian state is an absurdity. Just look at Israel. A beggar nation living off the donations of wealthy patrons. Why? It's simple, too many people and not enough ways for them to generate revenue. Every decision the Israeli Parliament makes is with an eye toward placating the wishes of their foreign benefactors. Israel could not exist except for the generosity of foreigners. The same fate awaits any future Palestinian state. They will be expected to behave according to the will of their Saudi and Iranian benefactors. No matter how badly the Palestinians may want peace, they will starve unless they maintain a state of conflict with Israel or risk losing economic support of their benefactors. An independent Palestine will result in eternal warfare, condemning both sides to perpetual strife.
There are only two possible solutions. Either the captured territories can be returned to their pre-1967 parent countries OR Israel and the Palestinians can get together and form a single coalition government and work together to achieve economic independence. Neither solution would be easy, but the two state solution is destine for failure.
ok enough is enough. end this conflict. put the borders up and call it a day. there r bigger fish to fry, like rebuilding japan, feeding the hungry and ending terrorism! also stop using israel and jewish community in the same field. judiasm is a religion, not an ethnicity. it doesnt define where you come from and where you were born, its what you were taught and what you believe. christians dont consider it our home, yet in bethlehem our lord jesus christ was born there. your religion is within u not where u r. just because your in egypt doesnt mean your muslim. there r many christian egyptians. lets just end this already!!!!!!
I hardly think this article is fair or balanced since the writer is a Palestinian!!! I wouldn't expect anything less from CNN!!!
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