Editor’s Note: This is the third of three posts from Fareed Zakaria on the death of Osama bin Laden. The other posts are Al Qaeda is dead and Vindication of Obama's strategy. You can follow Fareed on Facebook and Twitter for timely analysis of global events.
Osama bin Laden was not killed in a remote cave in Waziristan. He was living in a large compound near Pakistan’s capital, Islamabad, in the city of Abbottabad, which houses a prestigious Pakistani military academy.
It is beyond belief that there could be a compound like bin Laden’s in that location without some elements of the Pakistani military knowing about it.
The house was eight times the size of the surrounding houses. It was newly constructed. And according to a senior Obama administration official, even though the compound was valued at about $1 million, no telephone lines ran to it.
All of this should have attracted the attention of the Pakistani authorities in some way or another. The fact that it didn’t makes it very difficult to believe that there was not some Pakistani knowledge of Osama bin Laden’s whereabouts.
From the beginning, the Afghan government argued that top al Qaeda leadership was not in Afghanistan - was not even in Waziristan - but was instead in urban Pakistani cities like Quetta. Afghan President Hamid Karzai told me that Osama bin Laden would be found in a Pakistani city. He turned out to be right.
This raises two points. The first point is on the fundamental issue of whether the Pakistani military has truly decided to cooperate in the war against terrorism, al Qaeda and Islamic extremism or whether it is playing a selective game. I think this is just one more powerful piece of evidence that Pakistan is engaged in a fairly selective kind of cooperation with the United States.
The second point is more broadly that these terrorist networks really rely either on state support or the total absence of a state to thrive. Look at where al Qaeda has been able to remain active. In a world in which governments are pursuing it, where its funds are being tracked, where its people are on visa watch lists, al Qaeda is able to thrive in Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen and that’s about it.
Why? In Yemen and Somalia you have the absence of the state. The state does not control vast swathes of territory. Al Qaeda can set itself up as long as the local warlord or chieftain is willing to accommodate it.
In the Pakistani case, I am left with the conclusion that there was some level of state support for al Qaeda. It may not have been at the highest levels. It may have been just certain elements of the state. It’s difficult to tell. But the idea that you could have the kind of compound necessary to house bin Laden in the middle of a Pakistani city near a concentration of Pakistani officers suggests that there was some state involvement in protecting bin Laden.
President George W. Bush focused a great deal on the state-sponsored element of terrorism. This focus got a bad name because President Bush ended up fingering the wrong state in Iraq. But the basic point that terrorist networks cannot achieve scale or enduring power without some involvement of a state is fundamentally true.
Without a state sponsor, terrorist networks have much less capacity to acquire weapons of mass destruction, to engage in multinational operations, to fund projects for years on end and, most importantly, to have some kind of a base.
That’s why Osama bin Laden went to Afghanistan and paid the Taliban’s bills for so long. He needed a physical base where the local government would be cooperative.
When the local government in Afghanistan became uncooperative, he moved to the place where he found a more receptive political environment. This ironically turned out to just miles from Islamabad.
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Yeah It would seem pretty weird if Pakistani officials deny any knowledge of his compound sticking out like a sore thumb. It's too unusual not to notice.
bin Laden has been hiding behind a Bush all this time.
idiot comment
True.
GWB said he didn't think about OBL much anymore, just 6 months after 911.
Bushs long time friends with Bin Laden family.
Pakistan obviously knew where he was. I believe Bush did, too.
P... that's why liberals are stupid
Pakistan has been in a war with Al Qaeda with a committment of 120,000 fighting AlQaeda and taliban on its NW front. Over 4000 soldiers have been killed; 5000-10,000 civilians killed in over a thousand bomb attacks on its cities and its economy in shambles with estimated losses of over $50 billion. Over a 100 al Qaeda operatives have been found by Pakistan;s intelligence in hiding in its cities and not in the mountains where they have tried to blend in its population. This was probably the same thing.
A massive failure in intelligence could have taken place or there could be rogue elements. But to comment that Pakistan is not cooperating shows masssive ingratitude of Pakistan's sacrifice by its people. It is an insult that its peole will not take lightly nor forget this is not the first times they have been used and then maligned before in recent history
Pakistan's population is fed up of fighting this medcenary war for the West. for the last 10-12 years Probably it is time for it to simply withdarw from this war effort totaly and let peace return to its cities.
Chris: Do we really need to tell you what you can do with Pakistani honor and service? They talk out of both sides of their mouth... Of course they want western aid, so they tell the west what they want to hear, all the while laughing at the west for being so stupid as to believe a Muslim country would support western ideals and turn against one of their own... You obviously know little to nothing about the Muslim culture in this respect...
bailoutsos. That is such a thoughtless and idiotic comment. Get your brain in gear!
Pakistan is the worlds greatest double agent.... it did not shy away from having it's citizen's killed in that path... how can anyone trust Pakistanis???????? Why is the US being so dumb and not asking some hard questions????? Every time they have failed the world and human kind by being double faced. The entire world needs to have them stop at this stupid game....
You are the biggest of idiots!
@Brian
Well, it's nice to know you think all liberals are stupid... good going.
There is some truth to the connections between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family.
There were some very strong business ties between them, even though OBL himself was not in the family business.
Further, immediately after 9/11, there were no planes flying, but the bin Laden family was spirited away from the country -- with the help of the Bush administration.
The Carlyle Group did quite a lot of business with Khaled bin Maoufouz. Take a wild guess why that group and Khale are important.
I know, you think we are all idiots, but intelligent people like you might want to check the story out ...don't take it from us.
You can, of course, remain blissfully ignorant, and call others names.
@Chris Thats what Fareed said Idiot. Pakistan is Playing a Double Role, Supporting US and Al-Qaida at the same time. Killing some low ranked soldiers of Taliban on mountains of Waziristan to Please USA and at the same time Giving Shelter to Top Al-Qaida and Taliban leaders. The Killing of low ranked Taliban on Mountains by Pakistani army was something to distract US attention from the places where Al-Qaida and Taliban Leaders were living peacefully in Pakistani Capital. Its This is also True that Hamid Karzai the Afghan President have always repeatedly said that the Leaders of Al-Qaida and Taliban are in a safe Shelter in a Pakistani city, not in Afghanistan or Pakistan's Tribal Areas. While at the same time Pakistani Leaders like Imran Khan Condemned US Army Operations in Pakistan, and Pakistani authorities have always denied presence of any Al-Qaida or Taliban leader in Pakistan. I am sure you can find the Top 10 Terrorists Listed in FBI website from Pakistan.
Actually, he was hiding behind a woman.
Gee, lets see now who is stupid,
pakistan has W
mD's,
pakistan definitely supports al Qaeda, but who did the Republicans go to war with?
mother
oil anyone?
Lay off the coolaid chris.
Chris (more lilkely name being Mohammad or Mustafa or some such)... Pakistan is a state whose very foundations are wrong. It is a religious state buiilt on a proven violent and radical religion. It is a deadly combination. There are a few peaceful religion based states like Nepal, Bhutan etc, but almost never is there a peaceful muslim state. So, while there may be a few folks living in Pakistan who are decent and honorable, yje country's very founding principles are wrong and the country should be dissolved and its population absorbed into other countries. Maybe its territory can be used to build a big Disney World with a very large parking lot.
@chris: thanks for outlining the reality.
@Mark, Shahriarzadeh
The distinction between taliban and alqaida has been made by the US as well. Pakistan has been fighting against alqaida with great results, many terror threats in the west failed because of timely Pakistani intelligence sharing as reported by western sources. More than 100 top alqaida related personnel including top operatives were arrested and handed over to the US by Pakistan. Pakistan has only refused to act against the Afghan taliban on principle grounds and that has been their stance since the onset of this war so where is double crossing in this?
@Radha De: I am surprised to hear that the world has been relying on a weak 3rd world country like Pakistan to fight for it and save it. This makes them a super hero country that fought against the communist giant and now the terrorist monster. Maybe the world can stop pestering us with their problems and do their own fighting for a change.
@Brian, why does one person's opinion = defamation of a group? You're really showing your IQ here buddy. BTW, how do you know the Seal Team guy that shot Bin Laden wasn't a "liberal"?....or a Democrat.....Accusations like this aren't helpful.
@Chris: Pakistan has indeed been suffering but much of that suffering has been self-inflicted. Ever since the break-up of British Raj India, Pakistan has been supporting various extremist groups in its bid to acquire Indian Punjab and Kashmir. Ignoring for a moment whether these or other regions "belong" to India or Pakistan by right, Pakistan's military and intelligence services have a half century's worth of very deep networks and connections to these extremist groups, fanning the flames all along of radical Islam in a bid to encourage jihad against India. The Pakistani military has proven its willingness to even overthrow democratically-elected Pakistani governments to maintain its low-grade war against India. The U.S. is not blameless because it vaguely supported Pakistan during the Cold War as India half-heartedly became pro-Soviet; after the Soviet Afghan war ended in 1989, Pakistan - with U.S. encouragement - happily activated its Islamicist networks to essentially stage a take-over of neighboring Afghanistan, culminating in 1996 with the Taliban victory and conquest of Kabul. Pakistan's long-standing encouragement of radical Islam among its poorest citizens to generate cannon fodder for its terrorist activities against India is now coming back to haunt Pakistan as it is now caught between its strongest ally and supporter - the U.S. - and these internal terrorist networks which are turning against the regime in Karachi/Islamabad. It had tried to turn to another ally, China, but China is not willing or able to pump the kinds of aid into Pakistan that the West has over the past decade.
Right after 9/11 Rumsfeld Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage called Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan asking for help with the situation, to the point during the conversation Richard Armitage told Musharraf “”if you don’t help us, we will bomb you until you get back to the stone age”” If someone comes to my house and threatens me if I don’t do what ever they ask, they will not gut much help from me..
I guess Pakistan did only the minimum to help us.. Thank you Mr. Bush and company.
@SDAR. We don't need Pakistan to fight any battles for us, just move out of the way and let put troops on your lands and we'll take care of it ourselves, like we did this time. Do you really think we need you?
@b27607
First win the war in Afghanistan and then may be we will let you cross the border. It seems you aren't even capable of winning a war against the rag tag taliban militia. Some super powers the Soviets and the US proved out to be. We still remember the humiliation you faced in Vietnam and we don’t want to be destroyed like Cambodia by letting you in.
We already know Cheney had advance warning of 9-11 so he could get his puppet president out of DC and keep him safe until Homeland Security was set up; now we can't ask bin Laden the hard questions. It's obvious now why the Cheney white house stopped "hunting for the mastermind of 9-11," isn't it?
@Sdar:
Your ignorance on this issue is breathtaking. A big part of the reason why it's difficult to win the war in Afghanistan is because Pakistan cities across the border provide sanctuary and safe haven to militants and the Pakistani government is unwilling or unable to do confront them. This implies either complicity or a failed state. If it's the latter, why should you expect the US to respect your sovereignty if you're unable to confront radical extremism in your own country that's not only responsible for violence against the US, but has resulted in the deaths of thousands of innocent Pakistanis?
It's becoming clear to the world that Pakistan is a borderline failed state, much like Mexico but worse, with politicians too craven to confront the extremist elements in your society. Your government is too afraid to confront those who persecute and execute those of minority religions, and politicians cannot even stand up and voice criticism of these elements for fear of assassination. Why is that? Why are your people unwilling to confront the very elements that are tearing your society apart? You're constantly paranoid of India when in fact your old rival has already left you in the dust. While India has greatly progressed as a technocratic, secular society tolerant of a plurality of religions with advanced institutions and an academic elite that rivals anybody ... they've blossomed into a world power. Meanwhile, the only thing Pakistan is known for on the world stage is having become a cesspool of radicalism and yet Pakistanis remain mired in their paranoia of India. Why? What does Pakistan possibly have that India could want? Do you hear of radical Hindus infiltrating Pakistan and detonating suicide bombers like Pakistani militants did to Mumbai last year? No you really don't. India (as well as the US) just wants you to stop exporting to them your terror. And please don't try and feed us the tripe that it's all the fault of the US and its involvement because let's face it, without US aid where exactly would your country be right now? You were on the verge of insolvency two years ago and begged us for a multi-billion dollar infusion of aid. You can thank the American taxpayer for your even having a government right now. You're welcome.
The bottom line is that Bin Laden living comfortably in a mansion 100 meters from your largest military academy in a town littered with security elements implies either complicity or colossal incompetence on the part of ISI and/or military. Since it's only one or the other, which is it? Please tell us as I'm sure we all want to know.
We did not have a single terrorist attack inside of Pakistan before this damn war of yours started. Now every day our people are dying. Your secretary of state has admitted in a televised congressional hearing that the US is responsible for creating this terrorist mujahedeen network and then it was guilty of ditched it in Pakistan and left us to deal with it along with 5 million Afghan refugees. Instead of helping us; sanctions were placed on. I am only repeating the statement of you secretary of state you can see it here:
Now you talk about US aid let me give you the facts. The Prime Minister of Pakistan has already stated that our losses in this war have been in excess of $60 billion that is way more than any aid the US ever gave us.
So contrary to what you say this entire mess was created by the US and if there is a victim in all of this then its Pakistan.
As for India they are an oppressive regime that has blatantly violated UN resolutions that it has formerly signed and is illegally occupying Kashmir and committing horrendous human rights violations there. Their government has been directly involved in genocide of minorities (Muslims in Gujarat, Sikhs in Punjab). So please don’t quote such bad examples.
SAUDIS jumped in the NYMEX crude market in a big way yesterday to drive the price of crude up. They are (insert bad word here) off
It wasn't the Pakistani Government, it was the Saudi's bribing Radical factions of the Pakistani military. The big poker tell is the price of crude. The Saudi's are upset (use bad word) at President Obama for trying to bring Democracy to the world.
Obama, Democracy? LOL give me a break. Have you even read any of his books?
Garret has not.
The creep was found in Pakistan not Saudi...... the creeps supporting the dead creep were Pakistanis!
Garrett – I have. And you're clearly an idiot.
Sorry, but Obama has not pushed democracy. He gave a speech in Cairo about it and that has been about all that was done in the name of democracy. It was then the job of the young Egyptians to get inspired and revolt in the name of democracy themselves. It was up to them to do the heavy lifting while Obama delivered passive aggressive words to Mubarek. Obama missed opportunities to speak up for the young Iranians who were revolting in 2009. He was late coming to the table regarding Tunisia and he has been mostly silent regarding Bahrain and Yemen. He did however have enough balls to push for the elimination of Don't Ask, Don't Tell in the American military. That has gone a long way in reminding the United States of America just exactly what democracy looks like.
Garrett doesn't read. He gets everything he knows (and doesn't know) from Fox News.
LOL at Garrett. The Repubs and the Saudis are all totally enraged today at the death of their best friend ever.
The only thing Pakistan can say is "yeah we were all over it" "we co-operated fully with the US" What's the other alternative? "Yeah, sorry, we've been lying to you for the last 10 years."
Does this makes American leadership realize who their real ally is? A country which has been taking billions of US tax payers money, cheating America and its values for more than 50 years now?
Its time for America to wake up from its slumber and do the right thing.
Do We realize that Pk must have been laughing all the way to the bank for the last 10 years at the expense of America and may have actually been responsible for 9/11 ?
Pakistan was harboring terrorists, just like Afghanistan did. US gave billion to one and invaded the other. The main difference is that PAKISTAN HAS NUCLEAR WEAPONS. If we give favorable treatment to terrioists harboring countries, it will just encourage other countries (like Iran) to develop nuclear weapons too. Tax payer should not being give billions to Pakistan for "joining in the fight against terrorist". Instead, the US should link the billions in aid to the DISMANTLIING OF PAKISTAN'S NUCLEAR WEAPON & PROGRAM and impose economic embargo if they don't.
chris
Pakistan has been in a war with Al Qaeda with a committment of 120,000 fighting AlQaeda and taliban on its NW front. Over 4000 soldiers have been killed; 5000-10,000 civilians killed in over a thousand bomb attacks on its cities and its economy in shambles with estimated losses of over $50 billion. Over a 100 al Qaeda operatives have been found by Pakistan;s intelligence in hiding in its cities and not in the mountains where they have tried to blend in its population. This was probably the same thing.
A massive failure in intelligence could have taken place or there could be rogue elements. But to comment that Pakistan is not cooperating shows masssive ingratitude of Pakistan's sacrifice by its people. It is an insult that its peole will not take lightly nor forget this is not the first times they have been used and then maligned before in recent history
Pakistan's population is fed up of fighting this medcenary war for the West. for the last 10-12 years Probably it is time for it to simply withdarw from this war effort totaly and let peace return to its cities
Adi, the first thing you have to realize is that the U.S. knew what Pakistan was doing.(as my youngest daughter would say "duh") even while we were paying them billions to help us with this problem. Don't care if you're red or blue, or for that matter green or yellow, the U.S. has never had a good batting avg. on who we support. We supported Sadam in his fight with the Kurds and we supported Bin Laden in Afghanistan with his fight with the Russians. Apparently our leaders don't read history, because we keep making the same mistakes.
I guess Sam isn't able to type just copy and paste type of guy.
You are an E D It
You're talking about Israel, right?
It's possible that this compound is just one of many places that he stayed and for various durations.
Even MORE proof that the Paki gov't or elements in its military KNEW OBL was there.
An even bigger issue is that such a compound could have been constructed 5 years ago without drawing attention. And obviously bin Laden was somewhere else before the compound was constructed (possibly Iraq, Afganistan or Pakistan) and then moved in without drawing any attention? Impossible.
After all, they caught John List right away...
These types of compounds are not unusual in other parts of the world. The construction of it wouldn't draw attention like it would in America. I wouldn't be surprised if no one thought it unusual when it was being built.
quickest way to earn a 10 billion? and remain relevant in world politics?
Hide a 9/11 suspect and pretend to search him ! US economy could have used a trillion $ and lives of 100's of troops if used common sense – one should choose friends carefully and there is a always a right time to get out of this friendship – this is the time.
Wake up America. Question the politicians .. Something very wrong has been going on for a long while.
The Pakistanis should have enlisted OJ.
Cheers to All. Pakistan has lost most lives than any other nation on earth due to war on terroism. Beside getting appricited for its sacrifices and cooperation Pakistan only gets condemination. At the same time Pakistan has messed its forces on its eastren border Pakistan's Privince of Balochistan sees the highest ever activities of seperation movement. This movement is violent and been proved that India is behind all of this mess. No wonder, Pakistan has to tackle this problem too along with this WOT role. World has to play fair and must dictate India to stay out of Pakistan's internal affairs and let Pakistan's Intelligence and resouces on WOT.
you sed India is behind all balochistan probs and its been proved ... can you give some sites or news paper news where i can read how India been helping in terrorism in Pakistan ... please and thanks
whole world knows how pakistan played double role by hiding obl .. and you still living dilusional and denial life ...
this is pakistan problem and this is why ur country always going to be 3 world and in stone ages .. in last 60 years pakistan havent showen any proof of Indias roll in any kind of terrorism but on other hand India got 1000 of pak terrrist sitting in Indian jails
Adnan, which is more likely; that India has been able to manipulate every government in the Middle East into behaving in a way that would allow it to make a move on Pakistan, or that elements of the Pakistani government are so wrapped up with the terrorist movement that they cannot cleanly extricate themselves without the whole thing blowing up very publicly? India did not put bin Laden in a major U.S. city near a military installation. So I'm going with option B.
Adnan brother no disrespect to pakistani people but they have been betryaed by the gvt over and over again. Pakistani Govt always played in the hands of external forces just by pursuing and believing India as its enemy number 1. All its moves polices etc were India centric. Whatevere development was done (thought it was not much), that too was india centric...Apne yahan ek kahawat hai "Babbool lagaoge to kanta hi ugenge" which goes something like "one reaps what he sows"
We should have let India kick the shot out of the Pakis a few years ago after Mumbi. India would have taken out the Paki nukes and then proceed to absolutely cream the Paki military. It would take DAYS, cause the Pakis have no stomach for face to face combat.
Adnan, I feel bad for you and people in Pakistan. Pakistani administration is so bad that people in pakistan isn't even getting any good information. Instead, they are getting mislead to believe that USA/India and other countries are conspiring against Pakistani people. But the truth is its the Pakistani administration that is conspiring against Pakistani people. How in the world can any government or city officials look away from a structure like this within a kilometer of military academy?? Forget osama for a minute. I would be worried that somebody in that large compound could be plotting against my military academy if I were city official. I would go and raid that compound and find Osama. I am sure Pakistani administration was in bed with Osama.. Come out of this denial.. Accept that there is problem in administration. That is the first step towards yours and your people's welfare... Wake up.. These terrorists are the people blowing your people up even after you give them place to live and protect them..
And one more thing brother....I wish something good happens to pakistani people, My wishes for all of them (not for your Govt)
You truly are an ostrich with the head in the sand!!!! The Paki govt. kills it's own people dude. Wake up and get real! It's because of people like you – who are either dumb or act dumb (but are two faced) that creeps like bin laden survive upon.... they used a woman as a shield, how low can they get!!!!!
Adnan, sorry my friend, but Pakistan has showed it's true face a long time ago. Your own justice ministers and public defenders (the vanguards of your legal system) placed garlands around the neck of a criminal who murdered one of their own. AQ Khan, we can thank him for much of the worlds nuclear proliferation. The Mumbai attacks, hatched and planned in Pakistan, even your own government can't deny that. To top it off, how much of our military aid money has Pakistan taken and utilized on it's border with India as opposed to targeting the "lawless areas" in which the Taliban reside?
Your government has taken our money while playing both sides of the field. Your legal system is so fundamentally flawed that it cannot be fixed other then being completely scrapped. You government is so feckless and corrupt that it will reap what it has sown in due time. Your people have become so radicalized that the purported "burning" of a book leads to violent rampages.
Most of all, the people and government of Pakistan constantly demand respect. Civility, must be provided without condition, but RESPECT is something that must be earned through virtue of deed or thought, I don't see that in Pakistan yet.
Pakistan is reaping the rewards of creating and supporting all extremist islamic groups. Anytime you look at islamic extremist road leads back to Pakistan. People of Pakistan are being sacrificed by their military rulers for building a killing machine to use against countries like India and Afghanistan. All western countries ignored India's assertion of proxy war Pakistan was waging in Kashmir. Even now, western countriesare being fooled and we will pay a bigger price in near future at the hands of Paki Military. Look at who gave nuclear technology to Iran and South Korea. Wait few more years and they will sell nuclear weapons to any islamic group in the name of religion.
Well said. Agree with you 100%. Pakistan has sacrificed so much on WOT and still being blamed. So many innocent civilians also died and Pakistan is still in media fire for not cooperating. India is Pakistan's biggest enemy and doesn't waste any opportunity to condemn Pakistan. Mumbai blast is one of the expamples, setup by India and blamed Pakistan.
Stop your propaganda India!
That argument does not fly and exposes the paranoia that Pakistanis in general have towards India and Indians. This has nothing do with India. Your administration chose to look the other way and some even may have been complicit in aiding and abetting Bin Laden.
Please...GAWD... please.. we (India) don't even want an inch of Paki soil or the people. Heck.. we got our own idiots to deal with (Kashmir), why would we want more idiots among us. No thanks.. just leave us alone. KTHXBYE
Idiot
Well said Adnan. India has to stop interfering in pakistan's internal affairs.
Stop harboring known terrorists and military action will eventually cease, as the war on terror is fought where terrorists live. Get it?
Why is Osama the most popular name of a child in pakistan after 2001?
Fareed, et al: You are all giving too much credit to the Pakistani "government". Fact of the matter is, that there may be a government but there is no governance. The kind of things that happen there daily would be unheard of elsewhere in the world. Lawlessness is rampant in the country. Without going into details why Pakistan finds itself at this juncture, let's not jump to the conclusions that this was a big inside job and that the government was in on it- i would be surprised if even the ISI was in on it as they would've known that USA had a whiff and would've removed Osama. This is a country that's been overrun by Afghan militants since the Afghan-Russo war and the movement of people across the porous border is not unusual. Getting Osama into the country is not hard at all. Keeping him here should've been, but given the weak security situation, not surprised that he was able to slip. I'd still like to give Pakistan the benefit of the doubt- let's put the onus on them to prove it to us that they didn't know and Osama wasn't receving state sponsorship. Innocent till proven guilty- any speculation is very irresponsible and may be dangerous for Pakistan.
Sure dude... India has so much interest in bank corrupt country. We are self reliant country. Our population, and boneless governance is an issue though and therefore, not being able to maintain per capita and life standards of those of advance countries. Your country on the other hand is bank corrupt and the only way your govt or military can function is through getting help from outside, be it Middle East for sponsoring training camps for terrorist or from US in the name of "war on terror". Trust me if you forget Kashmir we won't even print Pakistan in our media except when we beat you in cricket matches.
Ali you must be dummest PAKI on the earth by saying that pakistan was run by Afghan millutants, Afghan millutants were run by the ISI the world knows that but you...............
Ali, how do you explain the house being a mile from a military training school... They probably have the ancestary of all people in that area.... Oh big exception,,,, they missed one LOL!
that is why only a handful of people knew this attack was coming. Do people on here really think the us government trust any of these 3rd world countries. No one can be trusted. Now we just need to do the same in libya, somalia, take out the top leaders of taliban, scratch that just take out all the leaders of any terrorist group and be done with it.
There's no doubt that some element in Pakistani Government helped OBL, possible ISI or some Military fraction. However, I don't believe elected Pakistani government did have any knowledge , as you know, ISI and Miitary in Pakistan do not listen to civilian leaders unlike in India or USA. Need to work on investigating this fact. However, in case of Kashmir and things happening against India, Pakistani Government knows everything whether Military, ISI or Civilian leaders.
As about India, it is not clean either, it is one of the corrupt nation and can not trust the claims it is making. Any blame against Pakistan that India is making has its own vested interest. India may have something to do with some unrest in Pakistan that it is claiming to balance out Pakistan doing against India in Indian soil. Most of the people know what Pakistan is doing but very few knows or realizes what India is doing against it neighbors. Or, even Indians do not know or realize what Indian Government and its Intelligence(RAW) is doing the things against its neighbors.
India supported LTTE to revolt aginst Sri Lanka which took hundreds of thousands of lives until it turned against India and killed prime minister Rajiv Gandhi. Without the help of India to LTTE, Sri Lankan Army would beat LTTE long time ago. In other words, Sri Lankan Army beat LTTE once India stopped supporting them.
Nepal was battling Maoist insurgency for a decade. Thousands got killed. Maoists were labeled as terrorists by International community, red corner notice published through INTERPOL against the Maoist leaders. The Maoist leader Prachanda was taking shelter in New Delhi at politician Sharad Yadav's house, just like OBL was found in Pakistan. When red corner is published, every country has to act on it. Any dumb wouldn't believe that Indian government and Intelligence community(RAW) did not know where Maoist leader Prachanda was staying. Unfortunately, the same Maoists are turning against India and they are the most anti-Indian element now. Maoist are in government and India is helping Terai armed rebels who are just doing what Maoist were doing few years ago, killing, bombing.
India is trying to destabilize its neighbors to force its will whether it is Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal or Bangladesh. India is playing double role just as Pakistan is doing. Now, the fact has come out that India trained Nepali security forces (which India claimed had good relation with Nepal Government) and at the same location ( Chakrata, near Deharadun) it trained Maoist (which were labeled as terrorist then). That's the same location, India trained LTTE. The fact is India supported Maoist terrorists.
Both India and Pakistan can not be trusted. Only difference,In case of Pakistan, it was going against USA and took a hit from US. But in case of India, it was not against US and the poor neighbors, all they can do, just keep watching. But the thing is China is watching from the north. China felt threated by these India activities which has its own problem in its Tibet, and has started engaging more in this issue. Will turn out costly for India in the future.
@ sabin
dude your are moron uneducated paki .. who have no knowladge of world .. games of pakistan been exposed time to time and all the world got prove too ... most of terrorist activities all around wolrd been done by paks.. from states to europe to asutralia to India ...
can you prove or show one activity done by Indians?? NO COS YOU CANT ...
just come out of ur diliustional miserable life son ... and try to be a human bieng
hello
hello
they said on the radio that they shot obama and i said no its osama
Why did Osama suddenly become the most popular name for newborn boys in Pakistan after 9/11 and has been for last 10 years? The only country to have that happen, by the way!
@JC
You are an idiot Indian. Do not know what your government and intellegence agency "RAW" does to its neighbor. And for your kind information I am not Paki. If you have any brain, you could get it from my comment. You are as bad as Pakis. Your country screwed up my country. Maoist have taken over my country. Your stupid government helped / trained Maoist. Nepal used to be one of the most peaceful country in the world. Now, its messed up. Violence everywhere. It is almost like failed state because of your country. Did same with Sri Lanka. You did not woke up until LTTE killed Rajiv Gandhi. It makes you as state sponsoring terrorist.
@Patel
Telling us to forget Kashmir is like telling us to commit suicide.
We'll accept Kashmir as part of India when you give us Junagarh and Hyderabad.
Well said, Mr Zakaria. You are right on top in exposing Pakistan here. As an Indian, I never doubted what Pakistan was up to, but common Americans need to know the design of this rogue country called Pakistan which was created on a wrong notion or principal of religion, has always been a nuisance to India, has always promoted fundamentalism and unrest. The fact that USA considered Pakistan as its ally is an absurdity in itself.
Mr Kumar, The roll Pakistan has played for USA since 1947 is known to every one. India were the polly of USSR since begning and never benefited USA in any manner. Beside taking common American Jobs to H1 jobs scandle India is just the Loud Speaker. AMerican lives with out fear of any Soveit Nuke because of Pakistan and its role in Afghan war. This fact is also admired by Regan and INdia has to lived with it.
Adnan – Maybe so....but it looks like times are changing. India is the future and Pakistan is in the past.
Mr kumar You have proved to be an Ordinary Indian...who always suspect Pakistan behind every wrongdoing of your own.. OBL is dead . how he end up there... YOU r not so important to be Informed..
Tom, Actually future is China and we all know that.
Adnan, Umer and any other moron defending Pakistan.. here are the facts. For more than 25 years, almost ALL terrorist attacks in USA )dating back to the first WTC bombing) and other locations including India and Europe have had ties with Pakistan. The plans were hatched there, the perps were from there or were trained there. Thre is no denying it. Pakistan is the focal point from whcih most of the terrorism in the world emanates. The country should be dissolved. and maybe a new one can be put in place modelled after India (secular and truly democratic, not run by Army and religious fanatics).
The future is the U.S. China is getting rich, but who buys most of their ceap consumer goods? We do. The middle east has always been screwed. As long as the culture of retribution and violence and vengence persists, they will still be living in tents cutting eachothers' heads off like they've been doing for centuries and will continue to do for centuries. War never changes.
Pak is an enemy of the US, India and other free nations, something needs to be done.
Possible, But they have have told CIA and been asked to shut up till the next election is near.
There should have been a rule that whatever country OBL/UBL was caught in then be required to bury him......
I'm actually quite glad to see that Osama was "buried" at sea. It would anger so many millions to see shrines to this man if he were buried on land somewhere. He had many supporters. In addition, I don't think any country would want that kind of exposure. By now, his body is at the bottom of the Arabic Sea, and/or has been ripped to shreds by the marine life. He is gone, the world is a better place. I'm not one of these that celebrated, but I am thankful that such a dangerous man can't inflict harm on anyone, anywhere, anymore.
Basically Pakistan played us ...and pointed us to Iraq so we would do their dirty work by getting rid of Sudam and further destabilizing the area.......The Pakistan government are good poker players
I totally belive that is true, those sand monkeys should see what its like to run a country themselves
Dude You don;t know about pakistan's leadership....Most people don't even know why Pakistan was created after all. THe leaders have sold thier country over thier personal benefits making it a rogue state. The moment some leader tries to do soemthing good for Pakistan , he is gone....
There is no way Pakistan military and civilan government would have not known about this. I am glad Obama and team called their bluff and took this action without informing them. This is a huge victory for human dignity and for peace loving people around the world.
Come on. Osama was living literally RIGHT NEXT TO A PAKISTANI MILITARY BASE, basically Pakistans "West Point", and they didn't know anything? Of course he would have kept a low profile, but someone had to give permission to build that fortress there...
Someone around that area knew Bin Laden was living there. That's what you call protection. That to me makes basically all Pakistani people a common enemy to the United States.
Now all the Government talking heads like Hillary are fliping the script, saying Pakistan is an ally and Bin Laden couldn't have been found with out their help, yeah right, that's the reason they weren't invited to the Bin Laden party sunday night... Mmmm Hmmm, yeah sure o.k...
In the Indian sub-continent culture, it is eveyone's business as to know what is happening next door. It is almost impossible to hide big house like the Osama Bin Laden was found without very strong support from intelligence and Govt. authority. ISI and Pakistan Govt. has supported Al Queda and othr terrrorist groups on their soil to fight against India and carry out terrorist activities against India. On the surface, to gain US support and money they have fought token war and shared some intelligence with US and allies so as to prove to them that Pakistan is fighting against terrorism. Yes Pakistan has lost some of their troops in this fihgt but financial support they get from US is far more important to them then lives of those troops. Pakistan is the country where there is no stable democratic Govt. mainly because of corruption and powerful military. Politicians in Pakistan think that in order for them to survive, they need to divert attention of the public by constantly engaging in confrontation against India where they forget about their own domestic social and economic problems. There in no way witout Pakistani's higher level political and military knowledge Osama Bin Laden could have stayed so close to military coupound and capital city.
Sanjay you are absolutely right. Pakistan "throws the US a bone" once in a while by giving up a low level Taliban to kill, all the while the ISI has a condo for Mullah Omar, a mansion for Osama Bin Laden, and doesn't even bother to arrest the Mumbai plotters. No country in the world has so many ties to terrorism, is so corrupt, and dies such a poor job taking care of its citizens. They should stop obsessing about India, eliminate their military and ISI, and focus on giving everyone plumbing and teaching them to read.
Have you ever been to the develping country like Pakistan. These type of big houses are every where in big cities. The culture is different and peoplee have high walls aroung the houses all the time (for provicy), That is very typical.
Don't believe half the stuff what Mr. Zakaria writes,He doesn't tell you the news he speculates the news, as you can figure out from his blog ,any one can connect the dots.
As far as to understand what army knew & what not use your common sense & read the conflicting news & you will get most of the picture.
Osama in a half mill home, hmm shouldn't be too hard to track back the money that paid for that to see where it came from. I wonder if it came from the Saud Royal family??
Pakistan is the sanctuary of all kinds of Terrorists. There is nothing weird about it. The Masterminds of Indian parliament attack, Mumbai Bombing in 1992 and recent massacre in Mumbai are all living in Pakistan under their ISI protection. Where do all the terrorists go for training? Do you still think it is weird?
Either the Pakistanis are imbeciles or they have been colluding with Bin Laden for a long time. Either way they are not worthy allies. Hopefully Bin Laden's records will reveal who in the Pakistani military and government was protecting him.
Pakistani authorities were very quick to try to slide this whole thing under the rug as soon as possible. A Pakistani diplomat was on the BBC this morning suggesting that Osama bin-Laden is now history and that we should look forward and not look back. This attitude is telling of the type of opaque government that is running Pakistan. Few nations in the world want this to go away so easily. Most nations have a million questions that they want answered transparently and with haste. The fact that Pakistan's own president was quick to defend elements of his security services without a full investigation having been completed is another telling sign of complacency at a minimum and collusion at most. This country was bad enough with Musharraf and seems to be getting worse with the new civilian president.
Gee I dont have phone lines either – I use CELL phones!
The Pak government has clearly been in collusion with Islamic extremists for a long period of time so this comes as no surprise, we need to clear out this nest state of terrorists. We should shift all support to neighboring India and treat Pak as the outlaw pariah state that it is.
Here's another approach. What if Pakistan was fully aware of Bin Laden presence, as well as the US raid against him. Is idea is that both the US and Pakistan agreed to "pretend" Pakistan knew nothing in order to avoid putting Pakistan "on the spot" politically, so to speak. Considering the number of militants in Pakistan, I could see where Pakistan would benefit from not appearing to be involved in Bin Laden's death. Sounds twisted, but then again, it's international politics. That approach would also be convenient in that Bin Laden would not be buried in Pakistan, removing the problem of harboring some "Bin Laden" martyrdom shrine there.
The compound is not unusual at all. This setup is very common in a lot of third world countries, even western countries. That's not to say that someone, more likely a lot of someones, didn't know he was there.
Very true, They knew where he was but why get him ,because the United States is giving them money ( Pakistan) to help get him. The United States needs to stop giving away our TAX money to everyone but it's own people.If the United States would Stop giving away money to Pakistan, and other countries we would not be in Dedt like we are.
How many of you retards have actually lived in Pakistan? or for that matter seen how things work in part of the areas like Abbotabad? This house is like any other ordinary big house an affluent persone will build, in a country where there are many feudal lords and rich people who build houses like these and poor people who live around are scared to death even to wonder what goes on inside. Not saying Pak intelligence and Army may not have known, but equally possible they didnt as this only speaks to their incompetence. Instead of this, why don't you people ask the real question...which is where is he? U believe the most wanted terrorist where they could have easily just picked him up and taken him for interrogation....ahh how naive is this nation...
They knew he was hiding somewhere in Pakistan all this time,just didn't want to kill the golden goose.
We have already located Al-Zawahiri. His time is near. Bin Laden was just a moral victory. This next one will be much more devestating to Al-Qaeda focres.
Good question, what did they know? Also, dont listen to the chinese spin artists telling us we failed in afganistan, their military was dismantled in days. also china lost its wen war wih vietnam after the us weakened them for years.
To state or justify that Pakistan had no knowledge of Bin Ladens presence in Abottabad (a garrisson town); or to call it intelligence failure is really a joke. The Pakistani's want the world to trust them with nuclear weapons? You want a state that supports terrorism, here it is Pakistan: Proof: 1) AQ Khan selling Nuclear secrets to Libya, Iran, korea 2) The Mumbai attacks (laskar E-taiba and other Jihadist groups) 3) Now Bin Laden. We have 180 million people in Pakistan and I can safely state 99.9% of Pakistanis probably just want a decent middle class living
Bhutto announced Bin Ladens death in 2005 then she was killed.
If this is located anywhere else, neighobrs should notice and local police should know who live in such a Highly Secured compound.
It's a total ripoff ( scam) American hard earned tax dollars ( billions every year ), the truth face is coming out.
There's a fisherman, a bait, and a big fish on the hook. Guess who are the suckers?
The fishermen are very smart, indeed, play it so well for so long. The fishermen insiders know this well, the sucker knows this too, but he had to put it with it, or shut up, So it's like a braid deal and put it with it. Man, we have been taking an advantage of, and abused. What a ride.
Americans expects and assumes that the rest of the world thinks and acts like we do. I was CIA many years ago, and lived and worked abroad for more than 20 years – including five years in Central Asia. People in this region are not stupid and it is normal there for people to know "everything" about their neighbors, friends, and relatives – but it is not normal for them to admit to knowing, especially to foreigners. I am positive that the Pakistan government and bin Laden's neighbors all knew where he was living and doing.
Pakistan is the root cause of all these terrorism activities. Why is it that majority of the terrorists come from Pakistan? The Pakistani govt is playing a double role; supoorting USA for money and a good reputation in front of the rest of the world, while in reality supports Al Qaeda & Taliban and all other terrorist organizations.
Has any information come out on the property records for the compound? Who is the owner of record? Who has been paying the taxes and other expenses for the property?
Of Course Pakistan Knew.........
Please keep in mind Pakistan is split by OBL supporters and Opposers.
If the Paki Gov't revealed they know and working with USA....our Paki Ally will be in danger....and OBL wiould have been on the run.
It was a smart move Obama kept is low key...and our Paki Ally are playing dumb for own security.
In the end – we got the SOB!
The best evidence to me that the Pakistani Military Academy was directly involved in protecting him is the simple fact that SOOOOO much was found – in documents- computers- thumb drives– you name it.... all of it... it was found all over the house. No man would do that unless they believed there was zero chance of US forces coming unannounced. Osama had the knowledge that even in US found him– he would get notice. Period. If he ever thought they could show up with no notice– he would not have those materials every where. My belief is that there is a tunnel from that house to the academy. That compaound is out in the middle. They woud have hard time leaving if there was someone watching and about to strike. But even if that fact is wrong– they counted on the US telling Pakistan government who in return whoulld make sure that he knew so he could get out before US appeared. It is simply the fact that CIA did not tel Pakistani Governent the plan is why he was killed. I beieve that is the best proof of the protection from Pakistan.
Mr. Z is repeating a bit of propoganda. The compound is valued at 250,000.00 US. Of course elements in the Pakistan Goverment knew. The Pakistani Elite who happen to be wealthy do not pay taxes.Pakistan has one of the lowest Tax
collection rate versus GDP. With no Bogey Man anymore perhaps the American tax payer will stop funding this Elite
who governs Pakistan.Now that they have plenty of Nukes the worry in Washington is that if Pakistan collapses extremeists will get control of these weapons. Not likely as India will step in. Time to let the Saudis who financed
Pakistans Nuke development to provide the Elite of Pakistan welfare.
Great comment,I agree
There absolutely must have been cooperation by Pakistani officials. Your article suggests to me that there will be no peace until we've dealt with the state sponsors and wealthy individual sponsors of these organizations. High on that list is the Saudi Royal family, followed closely by the clergy and government of Iran.
I am a Muslim from Turkey living in North America. A few weeks ago I went to a random barber shop and the guy was from Lebanon when he learned that I am Muslim he started to tell me how US and Iran are together organizing the demonstrations in Arab world to destabilize Arabs. Your comment about Iran and Saudi Arabia supporting Al Qaeda together reminded me about that.
You went to a barber shop and a "brother in Islam" told you his conspiracy theory. I guess that is now a fact within your reality?
you're friend is of course correct. but only partially. iran is destabilizing arabs in lebanon and palestine. sunni are destabilizing shia in iran and lebanon. pakistan is destabilizing india. india is destabilizing pakistan. pakistan is destabilizing afghanistan. russia is destabilizing iraq. russia is destabilizing europe. russia is destabilizing north america. iran is destabilizing russia. the usa is destabilizing all her enemies. china is destabilizing the usa via mexico. mexico is destabilizing the usa. switzerland is making money.
The problem is much of the funding and indoctrination come from our "ally" Saudi Arabia. If we're going to go all the way pursuing state sponsors then we will wind up destabilizing the entire region and likely wind up with governments openly hostile to the U.S. It's a no-win situation.
You know what's really stupid? We're giving them money and they hide and protect terrorists...
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot er FEET...
Totally agree with you as soon as I saw the location and scale of the place it became rather obvious.
I agree that there must have been collusion in the Pakistani government, for many years. But, to acknowledge that in public, would lead to very serious instability in geo-political relations.
Perhaps, bin Laden's hush money just dried up, and suddenly, viola, his friends betrayed him.
It's only reasonable to assume that there are people who supported him, who can be in any county and any organization. Let's say if there is 10% Pakistanis who support him, do you treat Pakistan as an enemy?
American people and Pakistan people should not be enemies toward each other. It is the Pakistanese government which took billions in aid from US, and continuing harboring terrorists so that it can continuing receiving aids in the name of fighting terrorism, that the Americans should be wary of.
It's impossible to talk about government without people. Like it or not, a government is a representation of its people to various degree. When two governments are at war, their people are at wars too.
Unfortunately, I see a global trend where our governments are becoming less representative of the people and operating from within a bubble.
Mr. Zakaria is dreaming in technicolor. There is no evidence at all in any Arab country that the ongoing revolutions will lead to any form of democracy. The message of Al Qaeda is being spread by Iran and it's proxies the Islamic Brotherhood which is currently a growing concern in Egypt, as well as Hamas and Heezbolah. There is a long way to go before anyone can claim any victory in the world war with Islamic fundamentalism.
Iran is no fan of the Taliban, OBL or al Qaeda. Study recent history, different branches of Islam, not cooperative with very different culture.
Iran was holding al Qaeda members in prison and house arrest then returned them to country of origin.
True, Iran is no fan of the Taliban or Al Qaeda, yet they all have a thing in common – the U.S. as a public enemy.
PAKISTAN IS # 1 ENEMY OF USA. IT IS NO LONGER IRAN OR NORTH KOREA. PAKISTAN IS THE BIGGEST FOE. PAKISTAN KNOWS WHERE ABOUTS OF ZAWAHIRI AND MULLAH OMAR.
and China. Read this. China wanted Osama to be protected
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/China-backs-Pakistan-govt-after-Osama-bin-Ladens-death/articleshow/8153149.cms
How exactly does that imply that China wanted him to be protected? They're facing an Islamist separatist movement too. China is only supporting Pakistan and is acting in its own interest in the region, which matches Pakistan's.
Saad: The difference being that China knows how to deal with political / social uprisings... They simply kill everyone in sight and let their god sort them out... No, China had little to no interest in OBL, other than to keep the west occupied and they extend their realm of influence... Watch the shiny object!!!!
You will never know how right you are. Stay tuned......
OH REALLY.......? well its time for you to see the Doctor..
Joseph,yes Pakistan does as they knew of OBL and had informed America before even 9\11 on Taliban intelligence but america did not act then because you know Pakistan has Nukes which America wanted to deal with so they really needed a reason to get in it's neighborhood !!!!!!!!! .Now they discovered that Taliban are distracting there way so they played the wild card of OBL's death and want to get to buisness straight!!! .WHO ARE YOU FOOLING SON??????
The No. 1 enenmy of the U.S. is not Pakistan, is the fear, that they will lose its hegemony in the region. The U.S. and Pakistan need each other. So what has happened, they grin and bear it! The U.S. needs Pakistan on board to keep Iran at bay.
I think they are engaged in a selective game because, as posted on this site, there is a difference of opinion between American officials and Pakistani officials about how to approach the militants in the region. In particular, it seems Pakistan is interested in using the militants to augment its presence along the Pakistan-Indian border. The link between the state and terrorist networks was well stated, and I hope this provides a model for future responses the US may carry out. I believe you may have said this before Fareed, but this should make a strong case to the United States to focus more of its energy on countries in Asia in order to cut off that crucial link the terrorists need to operate. The interview by Lara Logan on Face the Nation provides more evidence that Pakistan is not an honest broker in fighting terrorism. Here is a video of the interview. Logan speaks within these timeframes:
(0:00 – 1:01)
(4:56 – 6:14)
(7:47 – 8:11)
She provided more detail last night here:
Search for these titles in the Youtube search bar: "Obama's biggest problem in 2011"; "Did Pakistan know Bin Laden's location?"
Guess I cant embed CBS videos here...
It is open fact now that Pakistan government through ISI provided secrete safe heaven to Bin Landen and must have provided similar faicilities to many senior Alquida terrorist in Pakistan. There is time for USA to decide line of action against Pakistan. We should never mention Pakistan as our friend and say again that Pakistan is cooperating with USA in fight against terrorist.
As one of the analyst on Indian TV put it, "Pakistan has been caught with its pants down...".
CNN–Please monitor and delete inappropriate entries such as SK's disgusting May 3rd entry that is clearly a veiled dig to Lara Logan about the horrible assault she suffered through. SK supposedly references a quote that too clearly is aligned with exactly what happened to MsLogan during her assault. Even if the quote is real, it is inappropriately placed near the youtube clips of Lara Logan. Please REMOVE it. Thank you.
Rachel King, seriously? SKs quote has NOTHING to do with Lara Logan. You, obviously, don't have *any* clue about South Asian politics whatsoever. Your stupid comment took you to another planet on this forum. India and pakistan take jabs at each other through the media like this all the time – and have been doing so for decades. Just because it was placed to close to Lara logan's clip you think it was linked and now want it moved? Go rant against sexual assault somewhere else – where it makes sense. Stay off the political forum with your nonsense about deleting offensive comments that had offended no one. notice you are the only one who made that absurd connection.
Why should CNN monitor it when it has Nazi trolls like you? Pakistan was "caught with it's pants down", has "egg on their face" or whatever other way you can say LIE. SK was referring to a news reporter's comment and you twisted the words and made it about the horrible attack on Ms. Logan. Perhaps it is you CNN should monitor?
really?
I have to totally Agree with Rita.
Agreed, Queen Rachel should be monitored.
While it may not have been bin Laden, Musharraf wrote of a high value AQ meeting in Abbottabad in his book. Clearly something was known.
Four helicopters in Pakistani airspace went unnoticed. 40 Minutes gun battle 1 km from a military base. No – one called the police? According to a news report residents were asked to stay indoors.
They should have kept it all secret, the location etc, and only made public the body. They don't mind shooting him twice in the head but want to give him proper Muslim burial rites. Like that would help his family and friends.
Get real!
This article represents the typical myopic view that we Americans have of the world. Pakistan had a direct role in making this operation possible but it doesn't want to take responsibility for fear of domestic backlash by radicals.
Pakistan has been ravaged by these same instruments that you are accusing them of hiding. Over 36,000 civilians and armed personnel have died in Pakistan over the past decade since the war on terror began. That is an outrageous amount of death and destruction in a country that is poverty stricken and backward.
How can we expect the Pakistanis to know of Osama's hideout when we ALSO believe that they had no knowledge of the U.S. conducting an operation for 2 hours near their capital? Especially their military garrison? as even a U.S. war planner would not be able to conduct such a bold operation without receiving approval from the Pakistanis...remember Somalia..black hawk down? Mogadishu?
Be serious for a second.......we believe that the U.S. forces were able to fly in from Afghanistan (30-40 mins one way) conduct an operation for 40 mins near their 'West Point' and fly back to Afghanistan (30-40 mins) without them knowing? If they had no technical or human intelligence of such a big event occurring near their capital how can we expect them to know Osama was hiding there?
The fact that is not being aired (intentionally) is that Pakistanis helped the U.S. locate this compound and facilitated the action but they do not want to take ownership .. the backlash from extremist elements will be the greatest there since they are closest to the battlefield.
Those in the know, will tell you that the Pakistani ISI chief (Pasha) was in the U.S. in April (around when Obama's national security meeting was convened). Gen. Petraeus was in Pakistan last week and met with Pakistani army chief (Kiyani) at a very unexpected meeting (presumably when the final analysis on deciding to take action was made as mentioned by Obama in his speech).
Let's appreciate that Pakistani Govt has a different citizenry to appease than the U.S. Govt. does...The U.S. wants to show its citizens that it is capable of bringing Osama to justice...whereas the Pakistani Govt. wants to cast the image to its people that it is not fighting a foreign war, or is a U.S. puppet.
Lets also remember, that the highest number of Al-Qaeda operatives during this war and all the top Al-Qaeda individuals that led to Osama's courier (Khalid Sheik Muhammed and Abu-Farj al Libi) were caught by Pakistan and handed over to the U.S. Let's also remember, that the current Pakistani leaders (Prime Minister Gilani) and previous president (Musharraf) have both been targeted multiple times by Al-Qaeda suicide bombers. Pakistani officials don't want direct ownership of Osama's killing due to domestic backlash by the vocal minority extremists. They have a different set of problems than we do.
Well said Damien...then take more aid from US (minimum amount now days is in multiples of billion$$$), if US gives hard time, use China card get some committment from China and finally pump money in Kashmir....you know how many people have left home in Kashmir, how many people have been killed in Kashmir, US might be strategically right in supporting Pakistan but I hope they are not creating another problem for future. Ihave tried thinking over and over again Pakistan's perspective since they were formed in 1947 but failed to understand any logical and sane reason for thier policy towads India except a higly corrupt Govt who only works for money not Pakistan, I would love to see how every penny that US gives in aid to Pakistan is used, I sincerly beileve its not aid to Paksitan Govt but personal bribe to Pakistan's leders, ISI leaders (gang) and military leaders(gang)
Oh, please. Pakistan scared of backlash? The world already nows that Pakistan is a strategic ally of the US, and that Pakistan receives billions of dollars in aide from the US, not to mention they already get bombed by terrorists anyway.
The real question is why Pakistan didn't release information relating to this million-dollar compound to the US 5 years ago when it was built.
Damien (aka Hussain or Ek-Ball or some such).. do you read the papers ? watch TV ? Unless you have been living under a rock (like Bin Laden) for the past 25 years, you should know that almost every terrorist attack in the USA and India (as far back as 1st WTC bombing, attacks on Indian parliament, Mumbai etc) has had ties with Pakistan. The country is at best completely inefficient to choose a responsible government that will prevent such activities originating from its soil pr at worst a deliberately radical and terrorist-minded population that backs their government in their actions (or lack of). Dissolve the country and establish one modelled as a secular democracy.
So many Indians talking against Pakistan. You can change your name but you cant change your mentality. Most people in Pakistan and in Muslim world do not support terrorism. ENOUGH... I think now is the time to let you know. OSAMA IS DEAD" Game over. Now shut up.
Gousa, you have such bright comments about a religion a state and it's people!!! Then how do you expect something different from it .How can the answer to a grenade be a rose?Pakistan has nonmuslim alies like China malaysia etc who get commitment,sincerity and roses only because they offer the same.
Well maybe they did know. But governments cannot tell everything they know – it is not suitable for public consumption.
According to news reports, Pakistan had been sharing info on this particular compound for some months now. I think Pakistan is doing a great job, given it is a politically divided country like the US.
Other speculations:
Would you live in a house for 6 years with your wives and children and no armed guards on the outside if you did not feel somewhat safe? I have the feeling he was betrayed by somebody. I believe he was very surprised.
Was it only Navy Seals or would you send someone along to ID OBL by sight – appearance, mannerisms, voice, etc – someone who worked with him in the CIA perhaps?
If he was buried on land people would find him? They could not find him when he was alive – why not a remote spot in Tora Bora or a cave somewhere – on land?
Admittedly it was difficult in a high stakes gun battle, but they could have used a Taser, could they not? Any death would have been accidental.
Mr. Zakaria:
I am an Indian like you are. But, you have proven TIME & AGAIN that you will never fall short in supporting your ilk wherever they are. In this case while you do pretend to condemn the radicals, your entire article is interspersed with RIDICULOUS OUT-DATED statements in support of the Pakistani establishment e.g.: "some elements of Pakistani military", "some elements of Pakistani govt”, "It may not have been at the highest levels" etc.
And you say that "Afghan President Hamid Karzai told me that Osama bin Laden would be found in a Pakistani city. He turned out to be right.". I can give you several links to my own posts in the past where I have said Osama was not hiding in any cave, but living a life of luxury well guarded by the Pakistani ISI/Military/Govt in one of their big cities.
You have been trashing America, Israel, Russia, and Europe, in short any nation that even remotely opposes your co-religionists. You also never tire of calling the Egyptian Brotherhood, Hamas, as moderates while they are both on record now condemning the killing of Osama as yet another treacherous act by America against Muslims, and calling Osama a martyr.
While Americans have hardly seen any Muslim come out in the open and join in the celebrations on the death of Osama, and praising the supremely partiotc & brave acts of our navy seals, you will surely come out strongly to highlight (or fabricate!) any half hearted displays as proof of American Muslim communities patriotism. Please remember that American memory is not as short as not to remember the large droves of Muslims who came out in support of the GZ CARDOBA Victory Mosque, or the Burqa ban, or the Prophet Mohammed controversy, and the lack of it now!
I am sure you are aware that I have written extensively exposing you, and a lot of Americans and Indians are getting to know you and your Islamic agenda better.
You are increasingly exposing yourself as an Islamic sympathizer, and it will be not long before your covert efforts also come out in the open just as your co-religionists' in Pakistan.
Good Luck until then!
Amit-Atlanta-USA
I really appreciated your response Amit. I have always beleived that Zakaria is just CNN's muslim pawn, and his views are not always necessarily true. I have read passages by Sam Harris that always debate against Zakaria saying Islam is a religion of peace, while at the same time Sam Harris provides countless exerpts out of the Quaran that specifically condone and command violence against 'non-believers'.
Pakistan is harboring terroists, and they aren't the USA friends. I think just because they are nulcear capable, the US isn't pressing them hard enough. There needs to be some sort of action taken to disarm this nation with WMD's. A coutnry filled with so much corruption, crime, and so on can't stand up pretending to be fighting against terrorists and pretend to be allies with the West.
Kim jung il teaches once you have the bomb, America will never attack you
A moderate voice is not extreme nor biased. Its moderate. You're views are yours alone and they do not have to be shared by your 'ilk'. If only most things were as black and white as you seem to see them as. Unfortunately, they aren't and thus we do need to see things with a measure of balance to keep our decisions on an even keel.
I am an avid reader of Zakarias and I come off with a completely different take than you do. Fareed is a Journalist. Even when giving his opinion, it is not wise to say "all" or "everyone". I do not know what his religion is and to be honest with you, I dont care. You can say you knew all along that ISI was protecting Osama, but you knew nothing of the kind. You suspected. And so did I. As Fareed himself said before, it was likely. You may be antiIslam, but I am not. I am antiterrorism, and from all I have read and heard So is Mr. Zakaria. So go ahead and spout your hate, but if you can name one other journalist who has half as good of analysis, let me know I want to read it. I have yet to read anything he has said that I would say was wrong. Besides if he was as you say, I would expect him to write negatively about Isreal, and to be honest, I just have not seen that.
I've been reading Zakaria's stuff for years, and if he is an observant Muslim, that is news to me, and it never came through in his reporting.
Fareed is one of the most lucid, sane observers of the world scene in journalism today. By trying to lump him in with the likes of Hamas, uneducated barbarians who Zakaria has nothing in common with, the only thing you "expose" is your own ignorance and anti-Muslim agenda.
You are right Rob, he presents his opinion without starting on a bias or using unfounded inflammatory tactics. A lot of the posters here can have their posts substituted with "YAY MURIKA, Praise WHITE JESUS and kill all browns!" and you still get the same message. And the best is when they respond, 'well, terrorists do it too!" equating themselves to terrorists. That gives me the biggest laugh.
like you Rob, I have no problem with Zakaria's reporting or religion. the problem I do have is that if a certain people feel that their religion or prophet is being insulted protest and riot yet when acts of terrorism are committed (by people of the same religion) their silence is deafening.
Good Luck!
You sir, are an ignorant fool. First of all, your argument lacks facts. Secondly, show me where Fareed has openly supported a Muslim agenda or trashed America. From what I have seen, and believe me I follow his show and articles very closely, he has never once supported radicalism of any kind, let alone Islamic radicalism. Just ranting about how all Muslims are alike doesn't add any weight to your arguments. I know bigots like you may think I am a Muslim because I am defending Fareed. Well, I am not and that is besides the point here.
Also, Fareed is not defending Pakistan in this article. In fact, he is accusing Pakistan of harboring terrorists. If you had any brains o' great researcher you, you would have figured that out by now. F*&%ing idiot.
I can understand your frustration, we Indians know very well about pakis, when they hate something they will do anything to destroy them, but they never succed we know that. US is using pakis for their benefit, so they dont care what pakis are doing to India as long as their interest is secured. Pakis were protecting OBL, every Indian know about this, they were getting 1 billion dollars in aid to fake fight on terror, if OBL dies that money wont be coming, so they protected OBL so that they can get money uninterruptedly. Remember one thing traitor, haters, dictators never survived for long time, WE are gonna see pakistan sunking into the sea one day.
Uhm – yeah right. Attack Zakaria for stating all possibilities... You sound like a Republican A. Soldier... I wonder what would have happened had McCain been president.... *taps chin*:
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze_pG6Q62HA&w=425&h=349%5D
Amit, please tone it down and stop behaving like a RSS recurit...Fareed is just doing his job!!
Amit, aren't you Indian? you guys are sworn enemies..India and Pakistan...and will take any propaganda opportunity to hurt each other. You are biased against Pakistan for obvious reasons.
Fact is that it is impossible for the U.S. to conduct such an operation without Pakistani help and knowledge. If the U.S. can conduct this operation without Pakistani knowledge for 2 hours near their capital...then the Pakistanis are way too incompetent ... how can we then expect them to know Osama was living there when they don't even know that their airspace was invaded and some foreign forces conducted a loud operation for 2 hours near their military capital.... Seriously people .. come on!!
my dear all of u participents in this blog talking and not useing sence ,this all has happened with the help of pakistan its not simply posible to cross pak air space and stayed there for two hours opperation if u remember about two weeks ago ISI chief was in washington and after meeting his counterpart left immidiately ,the demand was to stop drones and american demand was to achive their goal Osama.
I believe Fareed is right in saying that Middle east uprising and OBL's death is a great news for entire world to be a safer place. Think about it Mr. short-sighted. Terrorism arose from poverty and corrupt middle east regimes. Now that these regimes are gone/going there is a bright light at the end of the tunnel. I am very optimistic about the middle east uprising.
Amit- Are you aware that Zacharia was one of a select group of people Bush relied on to advise going to war against Iraq? Calls into question Zacharia's judgement and yours.
I don't see Fareed as Muslim agent in American Media but I do have reservations to some of his observations.
Like his report on Mumbai attack – He concluded it saying povety and no or less education is the main reason for such attacks meaning, terror groups recruit poor people and train them against India, USA or UK .
But people caught involved on such acts or failed acts had formal education and were from wealthy family like the person involved in recent failed Times square attack and for that matter people involved in 9/11 and also main culprit OBL whose father had built 70-80 % roads in Saudi .
I do agree His Fareed's views on Israil are bit harsh and are normally against it .
Regadring Pakistan,
The govt does not have most things in it's control so cant's expect much from it at this moment.
It's time they realise Independance they got is because of Gandhi not just due to effort from Jinnah efforts infact Jinnah wanted secular state once he realised dream of creating Pakistan. So it's good to adopt few non- violent and democratic ways to improve the county .
Pakistan do has good fertile land good people but not enough good people who can take country on board ,face the truth and think beyond religion.
I appreciate your insight into these matters.
A.Soldier: It's good to see that people do see through Mr. Zakaria's baised views.
Regarding Pakistan, check out this exclnt analysis of nuclear armed Pakistan as nothing but a lose federation of desparate ethnic regions always fighting each other.
Pakistan – The State of the Union; Center for International policy Sileg Harrison.
http://www.ciponline.org/asia/reports/pakistan_the_state_of_the_union.pdf
Also check out this most pragmatic analysis of Pakistan by a welll know Pakistani columnist writing in their own #1 daily the Dawn aptly titled MYTH OR MADNESS – truly a must read.
http://www.dawn.com/2011/04/29/mystery-or-madness.html
Here are some excerpts:
"THERE are some great mysteries in the world. What causes gravity? Is there a scientific theory of everything? Who was Jack the Ripper? How did the Egyptians build the pyramids? And that favourite of amateur psychologists and borderline misogynists, what do women want?
Add another great mystery to that list: what is the Pakistani security establishment thinking?
Afghanistan is increasingly a puzzle. We are fighting the Americans because we want them to accept they can’t defeat the Taliban, which they can’t defeat because we wouldn’t let them even if they knew how. And we can’t/won’t let the Americans win because the Taliban are the only Pakhtuns capable of resisting the Northern Alliance which is in thrall to the Indians as far as we are concerned.
Get it? You start with the premise India is Enemy No 1 and somehow you end up fighting the only superpower in the world.
"As India pulls away from us economically and diplomatically, we won’t be able to strategically compete with them. But because India is the enemy, our boys will need to find a way of competing.
But how? There are essentially two routes, flagged by Rifaat Hussain in his chapter in Maleeha Lodhi’s new book.
The first, soft, option is to try and put our own house in order: look inwards, reform, fix the security situation, get the economy going again. The quickest route to economic revival would be to trade with India. The second option: double down on the jihad option to ‘balance’ India’s growing power. It’s a tried and tested strategy, it’s low-cost, we already have the infrastructure and to ramp it up would take minimal effort.
What about the disastrous blowback here that would be all but certain? Doesn’t matter. Remember, India is the enemy.
Between the soft and hard options, do you want to bet which one our boys will likely pick to compete with India strategically?
And if that’s not scary enough, try thinking about how long before our boys will be ‘forced’ to choose. Five years? Seven? 10 or 15?
The Americans and Russians figured out half a century ago that miniature nuclear weapons are a horrible idea. The whole point about nuclear weapons is to act as a deterrent. If you attack my country, I guarantee I’ll visit so much damage on your country in return that you really shouldn’t even think about attacking me.
And that’s precisely what we’ve claimed our nuclear programme is for. We even refer to it, all chest puffed out and steely-eyed, as credible minimum deterrence. But in the blink of an eye we’ve gone from nuclear weapons as a deterrent to nuclear weapons as an instrument of war.
Good Luck, Pakistan"
Amit-Atlanta-USA
To Amit- You are THE true disgrace to all Indians and clearly a self righteous Muslim hating biggot. I'm guess that you're some right wing Hindu fanatic spewing your hate on this website. Did you know anything ever built in India worth it's weight was built by Muslims. Do you feel bad that your ancestors didnt uncomplish anything for their own country...yeah that must make you feel like shit. I don't think Mr. Zakaria is trying to gloss over anything in his article. There are plenty of Muslims rejoicing all over the world on Osama's death. You probably wouldn't know because I doubt you're friends with any.
You're the one with spewing the hate speech, my Muslim brother.
agreed with Poobad. Amit has a voice and that is ok. Calling him names won't change his views. And your assumptions, your conclusions about India are not based in fact.
Agreed. Name calling – seriously?
@truthseeker, looks like you dont understand anything what Amit said other than Zakaria is muslim and Amit name is a Hindu name, idiot, you bigots create hell where ever you go, you wont let any one live in peace, because that is what your religion teaches.
Amit – I think to your point of doubling down on jihad – The one thing we can say for sure is that it does not have a significant impact on economy. A jihad and terrorism cause in this day and age a minor blip on markets. This has been true in the United States and this was true after the Mumbai attacks. However, your point is taken that the terrorists do see themselves with few other tools to make significant impact. Now, lets balance that with the events of the past few months where many countries with regimes of power and small blocks of wealthy autocrats have seen loud voices. This is a new tool that people are discovering and one that is met with heavy support not just internationally, but also within the tests of their own moral position. Given that these ideals are finally emerging as successful options, there will be a change – those who are candidates for terror might see another path. Where this is not a certainty, its definitely a possibility.
Pakistan for its part will start to hear those voices soon. I think the result of how Qatar's revolution goes will be a more serious indicator of this then Egypt.
We should just treat pakistan like the traitorous scum bags they are and nuke the place.. they are all in support of terrorism (those in power) and play both sides off against the middle.. the ISI is the worst of the lot, having been running heroin since 1986! Lying thieves all
Absolutely correct.
To be fair, Pakistan does give some support to anti-terror operations, however it is must be difficult because of the for – and against divide within, assuming it exists.
My wish for Pakistan is peace and development – both economic and social – but how can America help them? How can the world help them – maybe by helping them address their own problems. Just an idea.
Addressing the last comment: Intelligence organization throughout the world, including the CIA, have customarily operated on the ragged edge of the law, and many have strayed beyond. This happens.
It is quite sad that the US have used hard earned tax payers funds to support an enemy called pakistan,this must stop urgently and relations reviewed
stop being sooo gullible people. Why would the Pakistan turns in the hand that feed them!??? Look at how much money the US brings to their country and to the industry. It is obvious that Osama has ran out of his usefullness and now become a risk.
Even if I agree with Fareed, I will support Pakistan's position in this case. They have to live in that geography unlike us where we can hit and run. To manage 180 million people, it is justified that Pakistan has to take a diplomatic stance in public... that is either here nor there. As per my assessment, by taking a middle line, they would want to ensure following objectives
1. Eliminate elements that are a threat to the world. This is in their best interest since they must be aware of the consequences and I am sure they are not stupid enough to harbour world enemy number 1 near an army academy just in case of a PR fallout. For this purpose, they have been hitting the global terrorists hard and have allowed us to fly drones and take out terrorists on their soil if we find them first.
The price they have payed are 30000 civilians. The world, or atleast I, are grateful to them for what they have done
2. Protect their geography. This would be done by guarding elements that can unite a faltering afghanistan once we leave. An analogy to this would be our implicit support to royal families in the gulf. Our strategic interest is continuity of supply of oil and a bloc against Iran..... so it seems justified that Pakistan also protects its strategic interest in Afghanistan. Even if measured against democratic norms, the pakistani supported afghans (i.e. Pathans) are in majority and will ultimately rule afghanistan once the minority (tajiks/uzbeks with exception of Karzai) step down in absence of NATO.
Lastly, if all lives on earth are equal.. we owe something to Pakistan. We need to work with them to further protect ourselves rather than push them into a corner where they dont care anymore. And this can only be achieved by giving respect and due credit.
Well said.
Hopefully everyone can realize as you do. As for that, I would still like to add something to that. Pakistan has played a big role in fighting terrorism. Maybe the only country who has lost the most innocent civilians against terrorism. Its all corruption within the government. All they care about is money and their lives. If they wanted to make something out of Pakistan, it could of been done years ago. But they failed too, or in some cases, they never tried. I see the public coming out on streets soon, hoping for a better government, and raising their voices. In my opinion, Pakistan needs better guidance, all the money that goes Pakistan from USA, is used by the politicians to wipe their @$$. This is how bad it is. If Pakistan gets proper guidance, I will promise you, people from around the world would want to go there. It will become a very popular nation. If the money they recieved was used on making Power Plants, they would not have electricity problems. And if the ISI was investigated, I bet you, it will be full of corruption. Pakistan has the 6th largest Military in the World. I don't think its a problem for them. All this is my opinion, if any mistakes please pardon me, Im only 16 years old Muslim Paki-American.
Very eloquent and astute observations for someone so young. And it points out, once again, that everything isn't as black and white as people would like to believe. It is my hope that there are other young people with your intelligence out there as that would bode well for our future.
As for these negative comment about Fareed Zakaria, when you folks that are making them start producing news shows that tell the truth rather than pander to one idealogy or another, I'll listen. But I doubt you will, especially you Amit. You seem to have some personal problem with FZ or are just trying to use him as a springboard for your own opinions. Whatever, so far you have only been annoying.
It's good to see someone who can see beyond the obvious.
Pakistan is a terrorist state. The officials are corrupt by every standard. The support from China will wane as the price of crude goes even higher thanks to the other mega-terrorist state Saudi Arabia. The absurd amounts of money from the gas and oil price escalation is used effectively to fund terrorism as well as make our own politicians turn a blind-eye by lining their pockets as well – Republicans and Democrats alike. The failed US policy in the region, especially under the Bush administration has radicalized many who would have been considered moderates. There are NO simple solutions. Let India and Pakistan duke it out on their own. Afganistan is a back-water third rate pl;ayer. We need to send a message to the Taliban, Al Queda and the Warlords that support them that playing by the rules is over. Eliminate their leaders without remorse, eliminate their families if they stand in the way. Send the message that if you continue your terrorist ways, you will die, your children will die, your relatives will die. Harsh but effective.
Finally some analysis that makes sense and is not based on emotional charging.
The 30000 people killed in Pak are not solely due to the fight against terror that Pak claims to be engaged in with the international community. A lsrge number of it is due to common intenal strife. You see, we in the civilized society protest against bad laws, corruption etc with political rallies, demonstrations, debate in the press etc. In radical societies like Pak, they kill a bunch of their own people to make a point and gain someone's attention. That is the kind of people they are. Barbarians. They kill each other (Sunni versus Shia or some such religous sects) for unfathomable reasons instead of resorting to dialigue.
So don;t sympathize with them. Pressure your government to join an international consortium that can send military forces into Pak, dissolve its government, sieze their nuclear material and set up a secular democracy like India has had all throughout since its independence in 1947.
you are right Peter i believe most of people giving their negative views about Pak are Indians
It is very unbelievable that Osama was in Pakistan and the Indian secret ervices did not have any clue!
Can you read? The news states the Indian Military commanders knew of the raid before Pakistan did. Youi guys need to wake up and face the music instead of looking over to India. The fact you made this comment is absurd. ULB was found in your house – why are you focusing on the Indian aspect. You guys are OBSESSED with India. GET OVER IT and fix your own house.
In my opinion, you are just full of hatred for Muslims and Pakistanis. You are very agressive. And for your information Indian Media makes the most scandals, and is full of negativity. To put it in better ways for the Americans to understand is that Indian Media is like Fox News. Don't believe me Rita? Google the negitivity Indian Media has. Guaranteed Rusults.
Razee: India has been telling this right from the beginning . It's obvious that Pakistan is god's own country and devil's own nation.
Razi,
Are you sleeping all these years??? India is sending messages to USA all the time from past 8 years that PAKISTAN is hiding OSAMA. There is no doubt in the world that without support of PAKISTAN army, OSAMA would have been killed long back. Everyone should agree on this. I like PAKISTAN people.. we are all one and we all lived together in the past and just because of stupid politics and politicians we are like this Today. Finally. USA learned lessons after 10 years of the fight. Zakaria right on this article.
Intelligence across the board all knew – India knew, the Arabs knew, Israel knew......
Please keep in mind....the Bush administration had "Iraq" as a priority. OBL intelligence was useless.
However the Obama admin has put it to use.....congrats to them.
But....what can I say....people will believe only what they want to believe.
India will never believe there is a class of people in Pakistan who want peace....
Pakistan will never believe India has any intention for peace....
This group will hate that group etc.....
Can't we just bypass all these political BS and find a way to go on living a "TOLERABLE" life......I mean seriously life is too short...whether you are Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Buddist or Hindu.....
A monster created by the USA and well marshalled by Pakistan, has been finally been laid to rest, but this scourge will not go away easily as it is easy money available to the Pakistan establishment and the hawks at the administration in name of fighting terror. Pakistan is maintaining a huge army when it is financially bankrupt , But the blind eye to this by the administration will only go to enrich the Pakistan establishment and will be kept in perpetuity on the boil.
USA has to turn screws to get the other gu
In particular, I am worried about their relationship with China because we know China gives its financial aid to other countries without any provisions for Human Rights or popular rights attached. China cares more about state sovereignty than popular sovereignty, so they would make the perfect benefactor for the Paki army institution that Naafeh Ali Dhillon was talking about.
I'm from Pakistan and I myself strongly believe that they had state support; however, no politician, at least not anyone in the high ranks, supported them. It was the Pakistani army which was supporting them and I don't mean that every single soldier was supporting but just the institution, that is the army and is ran by blood-sucking generals. During the soviet invasion these extremist fighters were created by the army, with the funding of USA but after the war the fighters were supposed to be disposed off (meaning to be given facilities and money to bring them back to a normal life) but the army didn't, the money which was given by USA for the fighters was consumed by the army for their needs. Now they kept these fighters to be used against India, if required. Now during the war on terror, the Pak army sustained and maintained these fighters because as long as the war would go on, the aid (the aid which the people aren't getting for whom it's intended for but is being used by the army for themselves) which is being provided by USA, would keep flowing in. Now the politicians in the our country don't have much power, at least not enough to make the army flinch. Since the creation of Pakistan, the army has always been heavily involved in politics and whenever a democratic leader has tried to show the army who's boss, a coup or something similar has been staged. The Pak army receives more than 70% of the state budget, they receive this because since the creation of Pakistan, we've always had a feud with India, which is considered a formidable threat and in the beginning it was, so on that basis everyone gladly funded the army. Now the army, just to keep on receiving these funds has always propagated that Pakistan is under threat and has always slyly and discreetly ruined any peace talks that we've had with India. Thanks to the army, Pakistan has never had uninterrupted democracy. So, in conclusion, yes the Pak army was involved in this and with their influence on the media would make USA seem as the bad guy and them as the good guys but at least this event would shed some light on the integrity of the army and perhaps finally the people would be able to recover from their blind patriotism and see what parasites the army really is. The Pak army has ruined Pakistan country
I like your sincere analysis of the facts on the influence of the Pakistani army in the affairs of running the country. Please can you add your insight as to the influence of ISI and the extreme Muslim clergy in the affairs of the Pakistani state, and their support for the Taliban in particular and the wider issue of support for worldwide terrorism.
I did not doubt the extensive military support that the Taliban has been getting from the Pakistani army and elements of ISI, but having Osama live next door to the Pakistani military academy is mind boggling. How misleading Musharraf has been all these years saying that Osama was in the mountains of Afghanistan when he was living next door to army retirees and a mile from the Pakistani West Point.
So why don;t you Pakistanu people rise up against your military and setup a secular democracy ? We did it by chasing the British out after hundreds of years of their rule. You can't do the same after 60+ years of tyrrany by your so called military/goverment.
Forsake your religious fervour and setup a truly secular society like India's where we all posper from doing hard work. We may not be perfect (having corruption, poverty etc), but we are a broad minded society that is slowly but surely proceeding in the right path towards liberty and prosperity for as many of us as possible..
Pakistan may not be officially secular but there is alot of mutual love and respect between muslims and nonmuslims.Besides MR.GOUSA i don't think you should bost india's secularism while the ashes of Babri mosque are still not cooled!!!!!!!!!!!
Even any dumbest person can understand this that Pakistan is sponsoring terrorism.
Why there is no action against Pakistan ?? Instead we are supporting them with billions of dollar , why ?
TO all the Indians, Kiss Pakistani as?.
That is real mature.
Asking for maturing from uneducated religious people is like asking FOX news to be objective. won't happen.
Dear Mughal, People like u have made Pakistan a failed and terrorist state...having said that, HAVE A GREAT (MISERABLE
) LIFE!!!!
ass?? u mean ur face ... naa thanks not intresting in kissing crap and shiat
Because of people like you, pakistan is where it was, even with US billions dollors, a bankrupt country...
Why you guys don't rebel and ask for democracy, your government army all are corrupt. Feel bad for general people, as they looted all the money and no progress has been made. Saw videos where parents have to sell their kids to these so called Jihadis or some kids willing to do just to support their parents, as there is no other way to get money.
If you really feel bad for your country, instead of blaming India or US, do something about its progress. Your PM is well known and sentenced corrupt, throw him...
India with all its fall backs is well respected nation where everyone sees future.
Cut all of Pakistani aid now....what is taking so long?
What would Pakistan gain by turning him in? He's worth more to them hidden away while they claim ignorance and play their games to each side of the fence. This type of mentality seems to be the way business is done in these countries (smoke and mirrors (there's always a two-headed snake in the grass))... and political/international policies are just another way business is carried out... take anything said with a grain of salt. The Americans were right not to divulge and info to this Gov.
I am a fan, Fareed, but this time you are jumping on the 'get Pakistan' bandwagon and overlooking the obvious. Pakistan did support, but to the demise of those being supported. Why doesn't anyone understand that Pakistan cannot and will not, out itself at risk of their own rebellion? Leave them alone and realize that they supported Osama and then they cooperated with the U.S. when they had him. What else do we want? Do we want them to discredit themselves to their Arab constituency? The constant hue and cry will, no doubt, bring out a lower level admission to the joint effort to kill OBL and then maybe everyone will be happy- except of course, top Pakistany control.
He lived there from five to six years!! Even if a little child accidently kicked a ball in the direction of that compound and was told to move away, would not the child ask his mother, "Mother, who lives in that house? They told me to go away." Would the mother say, "Shsssss, It is a secret. We must never tell." If someone lived next to you for six years and you never saw them, would you not ask your other neighbors questions? OF COURSE, they knew he was there. Only, who is "they?"
America needs to pull funding to any country that even remotely supports terroism. Pakistan could not have been blind to this. Take the funds and apply it toward our National debt. I for one am sick of helping countries that do not support the United States of America! PULL THEIR FUNDING!
By giving Pakistan aid we are aiding the al Qaeda!
Pakistan was harboring terrorists, just like Afghanistan did. The only different is that Pakistan has nuclear weapons. If we give favorable treatment to terrioists harboring countries, it will just encourage other countries (like Iran) to develop nuclear weapons too. Tax payer should not being give billions to Pakistan for joining in the fight against terrorist (since they were no help in capturing Bin Laden on their own land). Instead, the US should link the billions in aid to the dismantling of their nuclear weapons & program.
"In the Pakistani case, I am left with the conclusion that there was some level of state support for al Qaeda."
YA THINK????
Cut off ALL funding to Pakistan immediately. They have now shown unequivocally that they are not our ally; rather, they shelter and protect known terrorists and murderers. DESPICABLE COUNTRY.
Maybe now Americans will stand up for their soldiers and tell the government to bring our troops back! and stop paying pakistan for their FAKE fight against terrorism. The tax payer money that is going into Pakistan to "help" America is being used to pay terrorists that have been terrorizing India for decades and now America too. I think its about time that American people ask where is your tax money going?
Does pakistan knows? What kind of question is that! They housed him, took billions from US and supplied weapons to fight against US. Atleast Democrats were smart enough to know it unlike republicans. They have been doing that for past 30 years! Every known terrrorist in the world has funds from Pakistan. The money wich US is paying every month gets routed to them. Its pure plain commonsense. Stop all funds to Pakistan and see the change. World will be more peaceful. Guaranteed.
In the book "In the Line of Fire" by Pervez Musharraf, the former President of Pakistan, he mentions that they had intelligence that Libbi rented houses in Abbottabad. He also indicates that someone important from Al-Qaeda lived in Abbottabad.
If the Pakistani government knew about this why didn't they follow-up? Also, if Pakistani intelligence had an encounter with Al Qaeda in Abbottabad as Musharraf mentions in his book, one wonders why Bin Laden would still stay in that town. There seem to be a lot of unanswered questions. Did the encounter mentioned by Musharraf an elimination of an Al Qaeda lead in order to protect Bin Laden? There is more to this whole thing than meets the eye.
Here is an excerpt from the book – "The second miss was again in Abbotabad. We were tipped off that someone important in a1 Qaeda was living in a house there, and that someone else, also very important, someone we were looking for, was supposed to come and meet him. We did not know that the second someone was Abu Faraj al-Libbi, but we had enough information to attempt an interception. Our team members stationed themselves around the house in Abbotabad. When the expected visitor turned up, the person in the house came out to meet him. But as he approached, the visitor acted suspicious and tried to run away. There was an exchange of fire, and he was killed. The visitor was not Libbi. Later, after we arrested Libbi and interrogated him, we discovered his pattern: he would always send somebody ahead as a decoy while he himself stayed behind to observe. He was undoubtedly watching his decoy perform the fatal pantomime that day"
I've always believed, (and many other people), that Pakistan knew more than they let out yet how many times did we hear Pakistani officials say OBL was not there? It is absurd to think they had no idea.
Some have expressed the thought of pulling funding from Pakistan. From what I've read we only give it to them because they are supposed to be using it to help fight terrorism. We all see how that's working so why keep paying? If they can't control terroism then others will have to do it for them. We can't let Pakistan become another Afghanistan although I fear it's been long time too late.
We would probably be Better Off arming INDIA with Better Weaponry to keep Pakistan in Line.
Amit-
I am an Indian and proud Hindu. Your opinion about Mr. Zakaria is disgrace to all Indians. You are a fanatic ignorant and you need help man
right, you are like congress party in India trying get muslims votes ignore their terrorists activities, idiot, you shut the hell up.
I have always known that Osama bin Laden was in Pakistan. I have believed Karzai from day one he started saying this. The Pakistani if they can sell Nuclear technology to rogue state they can also harbour a known terrorist. The idea now is not about whether Pakistan was aware or not, it is about what manner of response we hand them for this perfidious and treacherous act of coniviance with our enemy while collecting billions from us. First of all this cooperation must stop, secondly pakistan should be classified as a state sponsor of terrorist since Osama bin Laden is more important to the Pakistanis than our relationship and benefit they have been collecting over the years. They must pay back all those billions they have collected over the years and there will be no amount of accountability for who is responsible to payback for the needless loss of American lives if they had told us where Osama was since five years ago.
Finaaly, now that Osama is dead this is a great opportunity for us to start drawing down from Afganistan. Let the Afgans choose whatever kind of government they want and way of life that suits them. If they want an islamic style republic where they keep thier women and children at home and chop off the head of every one good for them. It should be thier choice and if they dont want that then let them fight for thier freedom because it will be more valuable to them if they earn it in thier own blood then handing down freedom to them at the expense of American blood. Certainly there is no way they can appreciate that kind of freedom!
Solomon,
I have been to afghanistan working with the army in the helmand province what do you expect from poor afghans getting bomb by us saying that searching for OSAMA searching thire houses at the midle of the knight saying looking for OSAMA so what do you think the same things happen to you what will you do bro and finaly OSAMA living a luxury life in Pakistan who we feed our own blood Pakistan and ISI is responsible for the blood of all poor inosent men women childrens.
We all refer to 'Pakistan' and their government as if it was a monolithic, coherent entity. It obviously is not. There is apparently a very dangerous compartmentalization of power and information between the military, intelligence and civilian leadership and a complete lack of checks and balances. Combined with a weak judiciary and law enforcement, this is a recipe for a failed state - one with nuclear weapons. One we will all end up paying for sooner or later.
US needs a foothold in the region to have an eye on India and China.That is the sole reason US has been using Pakistan as a base.Most modern Islamic terrorists are either born or raised or educated or trained or harbored in Pakistan.It is a well known fact.People in the western world don't like to call a spade a spade.They always sugarcoat it.Fareed is not different.
Being a Muslim himself and part of a News group he can only go so far.He is not a free blogger like you and me.You and I can write whatever we want based on commonsense and educated guesses and perceived facts and most importantly with the belief that Islam as a religion gives birth to ,educates,grooms and motivates terrorists and sympathisers of terrorists.
The same rule gets applied to Mr.Zakaria. Since he is a Muslim and since he does not call a spade a Spade he is being perceived as a Sympathizer of Pakistan, which is an Islamic country and most importantly a supporter of terrorists by virtue of being silent even when he sees the most obvious and when he has the wherewithal to do the positive thing.
I agree he has a soft corner for Pakistan, but don’t want to believe that he has the same towards a terrorist or a group.
Either way you look at it, it's not good for the Pakistanis. Either they knew about this and hid it from the United States or they are a bunch of blundering idiots to have bin Laden's compound right near their "prestigious" military base/academy and not know it, AND 35 miles from their capital city. And why did they send out bombers when our forces went in to execute the plan on Sunday? Okay, so they didn't know we were going in on an operation? Were they going to try to stop us and protect him? And why should we continue to give this country support in the form of American dollars? It's time to stop the money flow to Pakistan - NOW!
Somebody's got some 'splainin to do!
Here's an article I cited on one of CNN's sites:
CHECK THIS MOST PRAGMATIC ANALYSIS OF PAKISTAN's STATE OF AFFAIRS – By Pakistani Muslim columnist Murtaza Rizvi in Pakistan's #1 daily Dawn -04-27-11.
http://www.dawn.com/2011/04/27/imran-khan%e2%80%99s-revolution.html
Here are some excerpts (SHOWS CLEARLY WHERE PAKISTAN IS HEADED!!!!!): – In fact every single word is so so powerful and relevant that I need to make them all in caps....!!!
"IT's NOT THE WEST or the CIA that have DONE THIS TO US. We’ve worked hard to achieve this ignoble status ourselves. The kind of education we impart, with HEAVY DOSES OF RIGHT-WING RHETORIC AND A HOLLOW SENSE OF PATRIOTISM BASED ON THE HATRED OF OTHERS, INSTEAD OF EMPIRICAL KNOWLEDGE AND ADHERENCE OF UNIVERSAL VALUES, PRODUCES ONLY BIGOTS. Those not having access even to this shady mix of ideological social engineering then gang up on society to blow up schools, preferably girls’ schools, mosques and shrines alike. That’s their revenge on a society that is working to sully not its own honour but also that of the great Muslim faith, hence there can be no meeting point with them.
THEY MUST BE ELIMINATED TO MAKE ROOM FOR THE PIOUS AND THE RIGHTEOUS TO ESTABLISH ALLAH’S WRIT IN THIS UNRULY WORLD WHICH IS FULL OF EVIL ATTRACTIONS FOR THE RICH; A WHOLE GENERATION OF PIOUS SONS MUST BE RAISED, EVERYONE OF WHOM IS A MUJAHID, READY TO KILL AND MAIM ALL THOSE WHO OPPOSE ALLAH AND HIS KINGDOM. THE WORLD MUST BE CLEANSED OF ALL INFIDELS. Muslims not buying into this world view must also be eliminated for they are agents of infidels.
Now this is the emerging world that Imran Khan has set out to turn around on the back of the groundswell of his popularity amongst largely urban youth.
GIVEN THE RISING ANTI-US SENTIMENT, MAINLY IN URBAN PAKISTAN, AND WITH ALLEGED HELP FROM CERTAIN POWERFUL QUARTERS THAT SHARE HIS VISION FOR AN ISLAMIC WELFARE STATE, WHERE WOMEN AND MINORITIES ARE SEEN AS BURDEN, he is very likely to win more and more converts as he pushes ahead. And the first step in doing so is to cut off Nato’s supplies into Afghanistan, as proposed by him. THE NEXT WOULD BE TO RESCIND PAKISTAN’S COMMITMENT TO BEING A PARTNER IN AMERICA’S WAR ON TERROR, BECAUSE WE’RE A STATE ARMED WITH NUKES, not Iraq or Afghanistan that could be invaded. In doing so he forgets one critical aspect: WHO WILL FINANCE THIS NEWFOUND INDEPENDENCE AND THE FLAGGING ABOUT OF NATIONAL HONOUR?"
Amit-Atlanta-USA
According to Hilary, pakistan's cooperation led to Bin Laden so I'm not sure what you are talking about Mr. Z. Your arguments are flawed. We helped locate the courier which btw was a Kuwaiti. Pakistan is a population of 200M and no one keeps track of anamolies. We are fighting two wars one directly imposed by TTP and one indirectly imposed by the Indians and CIAs.. We lost 30K civilians. So please stop doubting our intentions.
Perhaps this was an intelligence failure just like your 911 intelligence failure. You need to come up with concrete eveidence to substantiate your claims. As reported by media, OBL kept a low profile in that house and it was not like he was coming out often and going for long evenings strolls with his wives and children. As far as the compound standing out and being 8 times larger, I don't think that is enough to start an inquiry.
The bottom line is that US created this Qaeda problem during the mujahidden war and we need to work together to solve it. You guys have a tarnished record of running away from the region once your interests are met. We need to watch our interests as well. But certainly protecting Bin Laden was NOT one of them.
Ali ISI will tell you how many times your dad shaged your mother in a week and your saying that Pakistan didnt knew about where abouts of bin Laden.
ISI just now told me that you are wearing a read thong! Is that correct? ISI is not what you hear from your western media
Harrison, ISI just now told me that you are weaing a RED THONG today and you like cross stitching. Shall I beleive that as well? Your information on ISI and its capabilities are flawed. Yes, they are sleezy BUT they are not what the western media says. Try to get your news from various sources and not just Fox News.
Pakistan is the root of all evil in the world today. Cut their aid entirely and treat them like the rogue nation they are. They can NEVER be trusted by any non-muslim country. Their alliegence is to their religion only, not to the human race. In fact, this is true of all Muslim nations, but esp Pakistan because its citizens have an identity crisis. they want to be accepted by the arabs SOOO badly so they over-do everything islamic. they riot on the streets of karachi with kafiya's for palestine – why? have you *ever* seen any arab nation waste their time rioting and protesting on the street for any pakistani cause? no – and you never will. the arabs will never accept the pakistani muslims as their own. they are so desperate for acceptance that they allowed their country to become infiltrated by arabs and afghans in the form of extremism. it's embarassing for pakistan – your country is overrun with people that don't even accept you. they are outsiders, but as long as they're muslims its ok – right?!?. doesn't matter they are destroying your country and your reputation. pakistan is the playground upon which the arab extremists are fighting their war. they don't want to waste their own lands – so they glady use pakistan. WAKE UP pakistan. al-queda is an arab organization – so why are most of their bases in south asian countries? they pulled pakistan down the gutter and the pakistani's allowed this to happen. you really think jinnah carved out a homeland from indian soil for this to happen to it? shame on all pakistanis.
well said dude, they have so much identity crises, they treat muslims from India as second class citizens because they speak urdu language but not arabic. Arabs treat all color skin people as slaves, doesnt matter whether they are muslims or not.
It seems that saying "Pakistan MUST have known" that OBL was hiding "in the big house up the street" is a Western understanding of how things work in a third-world country. Could that have happened here in the West? Probably not.
But that doesn't mean that things work like that in a country where for $10 you might pay someone to not ask questions and for another $10, pay them to not even be curious.
Do I mean that they definitely didn't know? Of course not, I only mean you can't judge East by West.
at this point i *WOULD support a war against pakistan just for the insult. hopefully the Indians will go do our dirty work because they hate the pakisrtani
excuse me, we dont hate pakis, pakis hates Indians and they will do anything for that. We dont want to put our fingers in that shitty hole, if you want to you can do that. Just let leave India alone, no matter how much pakis are trying and other countries are trying India will keep growing economically because we are not religion fanatics. If you see poverty in India that poverty is because of those illiterate muslims who will have hundreds of kids and send their kids to work as child labors and they sleep with their wives to make more babies.
So you don't hate Pakis, you just hate Muslims?
END "ALL" FUNDING TO PAKISTAN ASAP!!!!!
I wonder how much money it cost the US to be allowed to pull this off. Great for relations Pakistan, you harbor this terrorist probably for years in your own backyard? Unbelievable. thanks for your help though, i couldn't imagine another country coming to the US and taking out our garbage for us. . One piece of garbage who wont take another breath, there are a few more to go though. It just shows you cant hide.
WHY ARE THERE HUNGRY,HOMELESS AMERCIANS AND WE KEEP SENDING MONEY TO THESE PAKISTANI PIGS????WHY?
well its very obvoius that pakistan is supporting alqaida ISI itself is an alqaida organization I dont undrestand why the world think that pakistanies are just angels behind every terorist attack its pakistan. pakistan it self is a terorists training organization and ISI is the master of terorism.
Yo! You must be an indian bashing ISI? Stop worrying about ISI and take care of your country. Very soon, you will be disintegrated and your maha bharat will end soon. Bhun Chod.
Pakistan Economy is growing with funding from 2 sources:
1. Money coming from terror organizations to train and hide WANTED guys.
2. Money US giving away to raise army to fight terrorism (which Pak uses to fuel more terrorism at the India-Pak border).
I bet all terror organizations have some connection and support from Pakistan.
That is a very safe bet to take. Completely agree with you.
BETTING IS ALL WE EXPECT FROM INDIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cut off all funding to the Pakistan government immediatly. If radical elements take over the government, treat them like a state sponsor of terror and bring about international pressure to have them reigned in. Embargo's and selective strikes do work over time. But the time of big money for little cooperation is OVER.
If we stop all paki funding, and isolate the entire country, we dont need to do much more. There will be floods, earthquakes, plague ect ect ect that we USED to help with, but now that aid will NEVER come, and the paki herd will be thinned natuurally.
the carrot and stick effort by the US with pakistan isn't working. cut the carrot and lengthen the stick. rogue ISI officers have to be held accountable otherwise nothing will change.
its gonna be an interesting watch, because if OBL's computers held a list of ISI agents that roll both ways.
Col. Ralph Peters' house arrest theory is pretty sound. Such a high profile person must be constantly watched. I mean, there is a police station and a medical clinic right around the corner of this compound. Not to mention the military academy just over a mile away. One way to test this theory is to look at all police activity in the area recently. Also such a high profile person would be watched through CCTV. Check for CCTV cameras not linked to the compound. There are too many coincidences. I am not saying pointing the finger yet. I don't think all of Pakistan was involved in one massive conspiracy, but a few key players were involved in his protection. We need to find out who it is and on what scale.
Making a simple statement that" Pakistan must have known" is not only stupid but irresponsible by a responsible journalist. Pakistan is a extremely complicated country with a complicated political and the power structure, to say the least. Even within the military structure there are groups split supporting opposite side of policies, illegal groups and organizations. Same applies to the politics. Now, Pakistan's leadership may not have been aware of but some low level personnel may have been involve in setting Bin Laden retirement near Islamabad. The intelligence service ISI is made up of several opposing groups working opposite of each other. The same problem lies in Afghanistan.
So what if Pakistan knew binLaden was there? Which is easier to catch, a target desperately on the run, or one who is sitting comfortably in his compound, with a secure feeling? Is it possible that Pakistan allowed bin Laden to "feel safe", then at the same time allowed the US to mount their operation? Corner the animal without his knowledge, then pounce when he feels there is nothing to fear.
Why shouldn't we declare Pakistan as a terrorist state and treat it like one? Immigration from Pakistan should be stopped at once to ensure safety in USA.
at some point it would be helpful if china was held accountable for supporting all the rogue govts/military establishments around the world. pakistan wouldnt be half the problem it is if china hadnt given it nuclear technology
Pakistan govt protecting OBL for 10 years now because plain and simple, they were getting 1 billion dollars every year from USA and who wants to lose that free money, they gave OBL 1 million dollar home with some security thats it, for that they were getting 1 billion every year. Pakis are traitors and traitors never survive for long time.
I posted the following response to Mr. Fareed Zakaria on his CNN-GPS appeal inviting questions on the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.
I believe it's absolutely important for this discussion also given the fight for moderation in the Muslim world (& most notably Pakistan) which can have a huge impact on the ongoing WAR ON TERROR, the Af-Pak imbroglio, in the post-Bin Laden world.
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/27/fareed-zakaria-on-why-israel-palestinian-peace-is-not-imminent/#comment-17946
I have NO questions to ask my former countryman Mr. Fareed Zakaria, SIMPLY B’COZ HE CAN'T BE TRUSTED on anything REMOTELY involving his Muslim faith..........PERIOD!
Having said that:
Mr. Zakaria's deep rooted “hatredness” for Israel, dislike of America, Europe, Russia, and in short the entire free world whom he “perceives” to have ganged up against Muslims everywhere, is “just too apparent”, even as he “pretends” to love America! Mr. Zakria's love for America is limited to the opportunities he has had in realizing his dreams, making money, enjoying religious freedoms, overall fairness & magnanimity of Americans, and his ability to influence & be heard by a lot of (gullible?) Americans, while being perched on top of respected media agencies.
So Mr. Zakaria being highly educated is neither naïve nor stupid as some people think, nor fair & reasonable! Likewise Mr. Zakaria should also not be confused for other liberals who espouse true equality/freedoms for all Americans without encouraging mis-use of those very same freedoms with utter lack of sensitivity to other Americans.
Those are the “precise” reasons (in addition to Hollywood blockbusters), a lot of URBAN, EDUCTAED MUSLIMS all over the world “swear” they love America (or is it grudgingly envy America?). On the contrary they are firmly rooted in the “Islamic Radical camp” when it comes to nursing the “never ending list” of “worldwide” Muslim grievances which Mr.Zakaria himself links “all the time’ to explain away dissatisfaction of American Muslims!
The “only CRUCIAL DIFFERENCE” between such “so-called Muslim MODERATES and their JIHADIST brothers/sisters is in that, they don’t support burning of schools, trashing their women, forcing their women to wear the Burqa, or imposition of Sharia rule (ONLY for business, as it deprives them of any business transaction that generates profits, which is unacceptable under the Sharia!), and may be a few more such reasons. Let's not confuse these acts plus social drinking, dating, supporting beauty pageants etc. as sign sof moderation.
Short of these, there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE between Muslim RADICALS’ & “Muslim MODERATES’ line of thinking on the “Supremacy of Islam”, “Monotheism”, “Injustices” by the west (both real & perceived), adherence to the “Muslim Ummah”.
It’s such TRANS-NATIONAL allegiance to their religion and NOT to their homelands that makes a lot of Americans (Europeans, Indians, Israelis, Russians….) rightfully question their “Patriotism” and “trustworthiness” when it comes to national security issues.
CHECK OUT THIS MUST SEE VIDEO – from Mr. IMRAN KHAN one of Pakistan’s leading, moderate politicians with a huge support base among the educated, urban, and “so-called Moderate Pakistanis”.
A careful review of his message shows that Mr. Khan (and his Pakistani elite) inspite of being MODERN IN HIS OUTLOOK, ARTICULATE, WESTERN EDUCATED, FORMERLY MARRIED TO A CHRISTIAN BRITISH WOMEN etc. is “in reality” NO MORE DIFFERENT FROM THE ISLAMIC RADICALS he purportedly opposes (just the way Mr. Zakaria does)!
Having said that I have written extensively in these columns stating my reasons for believing in what many Americans already know of Mr. Zakaria.
Particularly on the Israeli-Palestinian issue Mr. Zakaria routinely trashes Israel for oppression against the “so-called” Palestinians while “Never ever” referring to HAMAS' single point agenda of “destroying Israel” and also its main proponent America!
HOW ON EARTH CAN ISRAEL EVEN NEGOTIATE WITH THESE ISLAMIC RADICALS..........ON WHAT BASIS?
While there are “far too many” articles by Mr. Zakaria trashing Israel, and America, the following from his CNN-Fareed Zakaria-GPS lays bare “his no-holds barred” approach in supporting Muslim issues in the ME, and his “Crusade” to get Muslim Turkey into the European Union (EU) thereby opening the floodgates for mass Muslim migration into Europe & America (in the garb of building bridges between the west & Islam).
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/06/fzgps.01.html
I invite readers to tell me where I am wrong.
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Ali:
You said: "We helped locate the courier which btw was a Kuwaiti."
That info was obtained by WATER-BOARDING Khalid Sheik Mohammed in GITMO.
On the rest of your comments let me tell you this ......... PAKISTAN HAS BEEN CAUGHT WITH PANTS DOWN!
I have nothing more & nothing less to say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amit-Atlanta-USA
+1
Pakistan has done nothing.
Only 5000 Pakistani soldiers gave their lives fighting the terrorists
Only 30,0000 civilians lost their lives to terrorist attacks, and I wonder how many families impacted.
Truly sad...but pakistan is paying for its mistakes of Harboring Terrorists and Protecting them.
America picked up many of its intelligence leads from Khalid Shaikh and several other detainees in GB including the courier, Pakistan delivered.
Absolutely correct, Farid always provides the best and most incisive analysis. We enjoy his GPS show every Sunday. Just like the state of Pakistan is fractured with religious fanatics and normal people I would guess the Government too has both elements. It is scary to think of Bin Laden coddled by a nuclear state.
I don't think Pakistan knew exactly where bin Laden was – I think if they did, they wouldn't have allowed so many of their citizens to die in the almost daily bombings there, which are often inspired by him. That said, it's possible Pakistan knew and was too embarrassed to let anyone else know. Either way, this highlights in red the incompetence of Pakistan's military which is essentially the state. Now focus on educating, feeding, and supporting your citizens instead of your mad complex with India.
Very TRUE
Pakistan has become bigger terrorism hub today.
Otherwise, India’s record (LTTE in Sri Lanka, MQM in Pakistan, Maoists in Nepal) used to be much dirty and deadly.
These two are destroying South Asia and the world.
Dude please know your facts,
LTTE was fighting aginst Ethhnic cleansing and India Instead of supporting them...supported Srilankan government to eradicate LTTE.
MQM...is Pakistan's own product during Pakistan's hightened involvement during Kashmir Terrorism days(unfrotunately..its still dangling over India).
Maoists in NEPAL – Chinese(ofcourse pakistan is always in bed with china in any kind of destructive activities) strategy to destabilise nepal and through them destabilise northern part of India.
Dude its hard to imagine India siding with Maoist. But it did. The fact came out just few month ago by a general close to King , in his book and in an TV interview, India trained Nepali security forces and at the same place (Chakrata, near Deharadun) trained Nepali Maoist during the Maoist insurgency. Prachand, the Maoist leader was staying in New Delhi at Sharad Yadav's house. Do you think Indian Government and "RAW" did not know it? It's like Pakistan did not know OBL was staying in Pakistan.
Maoists were terrorist then in International community. India played dual role. Not many Indians know the fact but it is true. Without Indian support, the Maoist would be gone long time ago. Now the same Maoist(Nepali) is a big headache just like Bin Laden was brought up by US to fight against Russia and became US's biggest headache.
Several GB prisoners is one of the Pakistan"s contribution to fight against terrorists.
America has obtained its leads from the GB prisoners.
This is one of the reason Obama, Mrs Clinton have all praise for Pakistan, and openly acknowledged Pakistan's contribution in their speeches.
Live and let live with clean heart
India and Pakistan share a very strong tie as they used to be one country 63 years back. The only problem with Pakistan is that it considers India to be its sworn enemy and has taken recourse to supporting terror in a bid to stop India from progressing. Agreed, that there is a dispute over Kashmir, but this has to be amicably solved and focus has to be given on improving relations and ties. I strongly believe that if India and Pakistan cooperate, the subcontinent can be one of the most powerful regions in the world.
hi guys i live in pakistan and have seen more death on the hands of terrorists than any where in the world .30 000 people dead more than US or any other country combined . heck if u think i like terrorsts than u r wrong .secondly i think pakistan government will never confirm any help they gave in the op ,y well they dont want to have a target painted on their backs our leadership is the real problem in both govt and military ,at lower levels both civilians and solders are against terror and thus the ons who are being blown apart . NOW the problem of y military did not knew well they know better and imshur we ll never know
regards
Greetings all....
First of I want to say I am a "MUSLIM AMERICAN."
When I heard Bin Ladden was dead – I threw aq party at my house to celebrate. The next day I went to ground – zero and thanks every men and women in services.
Being Muslim I cannot openly condem or express my real happiness because there are soo many people like Amit and Poobad. People like them will beat moderate liberal muslims like to provide answers for what extremist Islamic monsters did.
As President Obama called Donald Trump a "Carnival Barker" – it is unfortunate thet "ONLY" the "CARNIVAL BARKER'S" of Extreme Islam has the spotlight.
The rest of us moderate muslims don't have a voice. If we stand up against the Extremist, we will be targeted. This is something Muslim country leaders need to take action on.
If we openly condem and voice out opinion in the USA – people like Amit and Poobad and tea party supporters will target me to answer for September 11th. Did I participate on Sept 11? No, Did I loose family? Yes
Why we don't speak up in America? In fear...we just want to live everyday without being targeted.
Being Muslim it got me very angry when people were dancing on the street after September 11th......it also got me angry the Media did not show Muslim Families mourning as American. We the moderal open minded Muslims are the invisible society in America.
Please keep in mind of the contraversy in the middle east. Between Israel and Palestine it is all about "LAND" but both side using the race and religion card. Simple to say it "ISRAEL deserves their Holy Land." The Quran mentions Israel is where the birth of Jusism took place. We also need to keep in mind "PALENSTINIAN's" are also humans. As much as some countries prefer ethnic cleansing....we can't do that. Illegal occupation need to stop.
I encourage everyone to learn about the "Real Islam." Please do this by reading books approved by Universities.
Please be aware online there are fake sites sprewing hate.
Please also keep in mind Osama Bin Ladden and the Al Quida teaching is "NOT" ISLAM and I do not consider them as "MUSLIM." These are eveil people murdering innocents (even muslims) by using the name of ISLAM.
Please also keep in mind majority of the Al Quida followers are from poverty stricken regions who are illerates. They learn what they are being preached. That became a trend and the rest of the international followers fell into the cult.
Regarding India and Pakistan.......put it this way. I lived in India for many years.
INDIA is a huge supporter of ethnic cleaning of all Muslims around the globe.
There are very few people in India who tolerate Muslims. Hinduism was not all that peaceful They used to burn widowed women alive until the western countries put it to a stop.
PAKISTAN is a very brutal aggressive state.
They declared the holocaust on Bangladesh in the 70's another Islamic Country. The culture is Pakistan is very extreme.
It is unfortunate the small portion of the society feel otherwise and too scared to express their voice in fear of being killed. Perfect example Bhutto.
One thing for sure is this "ISLAMIC EXTREMISM" is a new trend for the new comer generation.
What is the core reason? Power!!!
These monster use "ISRAEL" as a excuse to kill others and any other muslims who think differently.
A$$-AMA Bin Ladden fulfilled one prophecy in the Quran.
The Quran states "A man will come into the work sprewing false prophecy in the name of Allah. Inncoents will be killed and all those who follow will not receieve any mercy from Allah." Evil has came....and now Evil is gone.
Please keep in mind when reading the Quran – the text before and after it must be read. The Quran says to "kill the unbeliever." Right before that passage it speaks of Pagen tribes ripping fetus out of women, buring baby girls alive etc...... Right after that passage it states "a muslim is not allowed to pick the first sword, he may only pick up in self defense .......is prisoner is caught, they must be released."
As you can be "Kill the unbeliever" does not mean "go out and kill inncocents or peple different than you."
As repect to Moderate Muslims like myself.....please don't confuse us with A$$-AMA Bin Ladden extreme teaching.
He is NOT Muslim. He just used it to recruit idiots. I encourage people to study the religion and it's history from legitimate places.....not a random website where some guy from India is creating who is not even Muslim.
I have jewish, catholic, indian, black, white etc.....friends from all over.
We all agree this is just a political game being played using the race card.
The USA has a anti bully policy.
People like Amit and Poobad are the "BULLY"
Al Quida and Taliban are the wimpy kids who come from poverty that got picked on one too many times....and finally decided to conduct a "Columbine."
In conclusion........I am sooooo happy the MONSTER is FINALLY DEAD!
I encourage Muslim Leaders to grow some spine and take serious action against terrorism and suicide bombing.
The Quran states "If you take ONE life, you will not recieve any mercy and feel a Million Deaths".
I encourage Americans to give us moderate muslims a chance. A$$-AMA BIn LADDIN does not define Islam.
He is a mass murderer and a "Carnival Barker."
KKK does not define Christianity
Hitler does not define Europe.
It's sad even though I am 3rd generation born raised here....I have been told I am not allowed to chant "USA" because I am Muslim. if this is true....the "USA." This is what the country has came down too. It is a trend....first native americans, than africans, than jewish people (WW1), than the Japanese (WW2). now Muslims (Now).
As you can see history keeps repeating itself.....and innocents from both side suffer.
May Allah/God have mercy on us and send signs of miracles.
Thank you.
nicely done mate
thank you for the VERY thoughtful statement! Peace be unto you and your house!
Well said. Please do CHANT USA. By not voicing your support (outside of this blog) you let the bullies win. There is a well-spring of support for you and your position. Have faith that it will come out if you do.
Thank you
I am faithful oneday our children will live in a world with tolerance.
Why they are bully? because they are expressing their opinions against islamic terrorists and you are victim and great because you are expressing opinion against OBL even though being a muslim? you muslims are insecure people, accept the problem and find a solution, tell me one country name with significant muslim population living in peace? always pain in @$$.
Ana – Please read my response carefully than jumping to conclusion.
Under circumstance any act of terriorism or murdering of innocense is not accepted.
However when people like myself – who are Muslim and DO NOT agree with the BS Al Quida, Taliban and OBL don't have a voice because of individuals like you.
Regardless what we say "muslims" and "extreme terrorism muslims" are defined the same with individuals with your background.
I did not blow up the twin tower, I am 100% against suicide bombing or taking a life from other.
As I said OBL and goons are NOT Muslims. They interepreted the Quran to their own paranoia mythological understanding and created their "OWN VERSION OF ISLAM." That does not justify that it's the "Real Islam."
I would like to point out...you are a muslim nor a scholar in Western Religion which consist of Judiasm, Christianity and Islam.
The only Islam that you know of is by what is portrayed in the Media and 99% of the time it is about terrorism, OBL and 9/11 because these are the hot topics and drives the human curiosity.
That is like me saying...I will not associate with Catholics because they "ALL" rape little boys. That is absurd.
I just individuals than a entire ethnic or religious group as you have referred "YOU PEOPLE."
And yes this is bullying because you are demanding answers for terrorism from me.
As I mentioned before "was I involved in 9/11?" "Being a average Joe sitting in America, working and paying my taxes so my kids can have food and go to college........how could I have possibly stopped OBL?"
Please keep in mind there are Arab Muslims and Muslims from other ethnic background. Amongst them are many sects.
Fair to say in Christianity there are Protestants, Catholics, Vrious type of Orthodox and others. Can you confirm there are NEVER disagreement in preaching amongst all of these churches. Even in Judiasm. .... I have a Syrian Jewish, Israeli Jewish people don't like her and vice versa.
In every group you have the goods and the bads. When the good try to speak and you knock them down – you are just as guilty as the terrorist and have let OBL and his goons win.
OBL main goal was eliminate moderate open minded Muslims like me....whether by him eliminating by himself, have people like you bully muslims like me out of Western country and be forced to lived under the OBL and "HIS VERSION of ISLAMIC LAWS."
Turkey is known to be huge European and Israel Ally more than any Arab nations across the board.
Have you heard of Bangladesh.....huge friends with the Clintons also one of Britains big friend.
They have a women prime minister and they have kick down any individuals who even tries to uproar any "Islamic extremism." Even though Bangladesh is a Islamic Country.....Arabs don't see them in the same view......India wants Ethnic cleaning on Bangladesh to expand land....and Pakistan wants ethnic cleaning because they more of liberal muslims as you may say.
As I said before sprewing hate and making quick judgement – please educate yourself from legitimate reference not websites Amit created during his free time to sprew more hate (like the world doesnt have any already).
PS – What do call all the reform going on the middle east? Egypt, Lybia etc.......Now is a crucial time for US to develope relatrionships with them. The next person as a leader need to someone willing to bring peace.
If people with your outlook continue.with this perspective....the middle east will take this as will be "who cares....why even bother" and the next man will be as dangerous as the last.
There should be and will never be ANY sympathy against terrorism or murder regardless to race and religion.
But to provoke without any means is uncalled for.
Perfect example President Obama is constantly attacked because he is non-caucasion. Some people will never be satisfied. It's their way or no way. If thats the case....why not ask government officials to deport all muslims?
Anyway will not be posting much more for today. I am a working class person – trying my best to be off unemployment and paying corporate taxes so jobs can be outsources so Amit can get a job and create more websites to justify his motives.
We need to concentrate on bigger issues than target muslims as you said "You People" who actually want terrorism to end......for example eliminating Al Quida, creating jobs, healthcare, establishing good realtionship across the globe to prevent more terrorism.
Do you think China very happy with comment made by Mr. Trump? Do you think Japan forgave us for the Nuclear Bomb? Regaedless whose fault it is......people don't forget that easily. Have you forgotten 9/11 ?
Regardless what I say to you or what is happening you will still hate "All" Muslims because of these sick individuals.
In the end does my voice being a Muslim wanting to end terrorism have any value at all?
Let me ask you what exacly is it that you want "Muslims" to do? As I said there is a big difference between a "Muslim" and a "Extreme Islamic Muslim." ( who in my opinion are not muslims...because they pick and choose and convert interpretation to hate."
I say now is the time to unite as much as possible and seek for a peaceful future. 1st step Bin Ladden is gone...... 2nd Step Unity to defeat these monster.
American Muslim:
I WAS WAITING TO SEE YOUR RESPONSE ON MY ANSWERS TO YOU!!!!!
Check out my resp. with following date/time stamp below.
May 3, 2011 at 12:10 pm
Why should I answer to you?
Did I ask you any questions?
I know you will sprew propaganda I am not answering because I am a "Muslim."
Some of have jobs where we are trying to stay off unemployment ....and paying my taxes....you should be happy, most jobs are oursouced to India.
Dude,
You simply proved your duplicity... seems strikingly similair to pakistani state p[olicy. I am pretty sure you are not from Bangladesh/India/Pakistan. Know the history before you talk.
If you are moderate muslim ...why do i see hatred in your words? Also Why do you call yourself muslim american rather than arab american/ American... Its the first time i am hearing some one using Relegion as american identity. SO MUCH for your moderate/liberal views....i wonder what an extremist would be.
I call myself "AMERICAN MUSLIM" because I am an American and my faith is Islam simple!!
Why would I call myself Arab American if I am not Arab.
I am a histiorian major of southeast Asia.
Read some history.....Pakistan wanted to do ethnic cleaning on Bangladesh thats when the Soviet Union helped out Bangladesh.
Pakistan has a a few percentage of people who are not as extreme....and they dont have voices, majority have more extreme point of view. Perfect example when Bhutto got shot.......majority Pakistani did not sympathize.
With India because of the sour relationship with Pakistan they developed an extreme hatred against "ALL" Muslims.
They are using 9/11 as their own propaganda – sweet talking to other peolple making sure by any means Muslims are eliminated.
Perfect example.....the Rutger student suicide.....the bully was his Indian roomate.
It's one thing to be bias and another to push it to extremism.
As I said good and bad in alll but Pakistani by culture is very aggressive and plenty of Pride.....in everything good or bad.....I met many brilliant elite bankers, surgeons and business man,,,,,,but some times this talent is used for the bad as well.
Indians there are different class – you have Hindus, Sikhs and other who have open view or people like Amit to spread hatred propaganda and than try to justify his parania.
Where exaclty do you see the hate in my comment?
Disagreeing with someone is not "HATE?"
The only Hate I expressed is towards OBL and his goons.
Is is bothering you I related to myself as AMERICAN MUSLIM and not Specify if I am white, black ot arab?
Have I refered to anything as "You People" as I got?
Or am I acting like Amit as a ring leader of a circus including "USA and India" as lovers.
The war on terrorism is a global effect – everyone needs to step up .......including Muslims and we need to push ring leaders to the back to there can be genuine peace.
The Issue here is Mr. Zakaria is a Muslim.
I have not heard him say anything to justify anything against terrorism. If he even came close to certain comment....I highly doubt he has a job. This is Media....the public rating is crucial.
I am sure if they gave Dr. Gupta (awesome man by the way) the same position to discuss politics...........Amit would be waving the Indian (not American flag) and having a comeplete different perspective.
I see other Indian people posting here agreeing or disagreeing with the article and Mr. Zakaria.....but there is only one ring leader on here trying to conduct his own circus.
While at first sight i was in agreement with most of your arguments...but then again it made me curious what gave you the idea that Indians are looking to cleanse Bangladeshis to expand their land...this is one of the most ridiculous idea i have ever read...do you even know that it was India who saved Bangladeshis from Pakistanis in 1971....even today India is facing the migration problem from Bangladesh...you also painted the all Pakistanis with the same brush
And how the hell do you know that Indians don't tolerate Muslims...India has 2nd highest Muslim population in the world and yet Al Qaida isn't able to recruit a single Indian Muslim in its cadre...do you think it was possible if Muslims aren't tolerated in India...and have you heard the name of Shah Rukh Khan, Aamir Khan, Salman Khan, Yusuf Pathan, Irfan Pathan, Abdul Kalam, Azim Premzi etc and the kind of respect and love they get in India
You have exactly the kind of disease that Amit is suffering that is stereotyping and generalization...at most your statements regarding India are based on conversation with some Indians and some twisted Media reports...the same case it with Amit...you are looking like an epitome of schizophrenic
Dear Friend Ashish:
Check out my detaield resp. below date/time stamp: May 4, 2011 at 11:11 am
Let me know what you have to say!
Amit-Atlanta-USA
During my stay in India – I was treated horrible once people heard of my faith. I had to request my company to bring me back to the USA.
Before the 1970's Bangladesh was "East Pakistan". During that time what is not "Pakistan" was "West Pakistan."
West Pakistan declared ethnic cleansing n Bangladesh because they spoke a different language. Bangladesh meands Bangla (language spoken) and desh (country).
During this war The Soviet Union and India supported Bangladesh. Shortly after India attempted the same thing as Pakistan to take over the land....but not as aggressively.
For those who don't know about Bangladesh. Dr. Eunis great friends of the Clintons. John McCain adopted a daughter from there. They have the worlds first woman President. Most liberal Islamic country...trhere are few extremist....but they are afraid to openly recruit as society will go against it.....only flaw corrupt government as you would find in any 3rd world country.
Don't get me wrong I have plenty of Indian Hindu friends in America who are more tolerable than the ones I met back in India were very VERY NASTY!!!! Kinda like our friend Amit.....who I assume is the same dude that stalked teh facebook maker.
I agree India and Pakistan have a history have a sworn relationship of being enemies...........
But people like Amit are tarheting "MUSLIMS."
Would it be fair to say this is a "Political" issue where religion is being dragged in into Islamaphobia.
Heres a idea...India and Pakistan should join forces so Al Quida don't get access to nukes in Pakistan.
America has violated Pakistan's Sovereignty:
http://blog.proudislam.com/2011/05/american-way-of-dealing-with-allies.html
Pakistan violated human rights and were harboring a known, mass murdering terrorist. The US had no choice.
Pakistan has violated America's trust! And we paid for that!
When is America and all the "THINK TANKS" GOING TO ADMIT..America was had by Pakistan...Taken...duped...swindled....gotten......cheated.....lied to.....!
Farid you are right in your analysis, but can you talk more about why there is so much fuss about Pak-US relations, Why is Americans are so keen to seek help from their Pakistani counter-parts to resolve Afghanistan, Why dont declares economic + military blockages to Pakistanis who are supporting terrorism, Why it has not happened till yet, and last thing you got a 'bitter mouth' which many dont like
I think this Pakistan prestigeous military academy's first graduating class was F-troop!
Fareed, your assesment may be correct this time, but you are an Indian and have an ax to grind with Pakistan, so one must question your motives surrounding this post.
It's obvious that the Pakistanis knew he was there. It's also likely that he was paying them off to keep quiet and to protect him. I believe that Pakistan is probably the single most dangerous state at this time. They have nuclear weapons AND they were hiding Bin Laden. If you watch videos of government controlled nuclear testing in Pakistan it will send shivers up and down your spine ... after the blast they all chant "god is great, god is great, praise allah." It's only a matter of time before something terrible happens as a result of this radical country's nuclear capability.
Thank You. Thank you. Thank you!
How is it obvious? Was it obvious the US knew where the Unabomber was and chose not to arrest him? Sometimes not going out in public is all you need to successfully hide. Just because a house gets built doesn't mean everyone knows who is building it and who lives there. Don't be so quick to assume everyone outside of the US is protecting him. By your rationale everyone knew Osama was there and not 1 of those people didn't like him or what he stood for. Let's get real.
Fact of the matter is that OBL chose the site for hideout where he thought he would be most protected. Under the shadow of ISI and Pak Army
Too bad the ISI has lost their "cash cow". Saudi money to hide him, US money to find him.....
Bingo.
All these conspiracy thoeirs are too funny. Fact is it's about the money. The ISI had him on a leash while collecting baby-sitting money. Alot of people had their finger in the honetpot, too. Notice how Musharraf was kinda tiffed about the Op? Guess his retirement stream just took a hit....
Not sure if Osama is the real terror master mind or a scape goat and the real brains are are still alive and operating in ISI
ISI must be totally dismanteled
who are your enemies and what are you trying to achieve. these are the questions that America should be asking itself. How do you justify George Bush Snr's association with Osamas dad and there deals to fund reconstruction of the middle east between the two dads. how did the intelligence point to Iraq as the axis of evil where al qaeda. was CIA genuinely wrong or was it a scape goat. Remember a few weeks back, Gadaffis son was in the US under your tax payers money. Are you so naive or choose to be so when pplucking out who should be a friend and for how long the friendship should last. You tell me i dont know but open your eyes. Just thinking aloud. I hope this marks the end of an empire with a small e
India has been saying all along that Pakistan is the safe heaven for terrorist... no one cares . US keeps its eyes closed .. when things like this happen... they suddenly wake up
Well said. India also was the first to give out the info that Khalid Sheik Mohammed wired $100,000 to Mohammed Atta (money given to him by the then ISI chief, & in turn the Pakistani govt.). Those references were erased in the 9/11 report NOT to offend our Pakistani allies (ALL-LIES!!!!!)
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Pakistan must have known! Pakistan is either with us (USA) or against us....don't be played! No reason to have rules if there are no consequences!!!!!
wow we should stop all funding!!! douchebags!
onelinerix:
You said: "at some point it would be helpful if china was held accountable for supporting all the rogue govts/military establishments around the world. pakistan wouldnt be half the problem it is if china hadnt given it nuclear technology."
Absolutely true, but we (US & India) have to blame ourselves for letting this genie out of the bag in the first place!
Way back in the 80’s the valiant Israelis offered to take out Pakistan's first nuclear enrichment plant at Kahuta, just the way they did in Iraq and later in Syria. They ONLY asked India for refueling their F-16's after the attack, but stupid India refused NOT to hurt it’s 160 Million (largely unpatriotic) Muslims who see Pakistan as their brotherly nation, while the rest of the non-Muslim Indians view them as an arch enemy! That's also true with Indian Muslims' attitudes towards America and Israel whom they despise (like most of their brethren elsewhere, incl. notably Mr. Zakaria!) while the rest of the Indians have a natural affinity towards these GREATEST OF NATIONS!
Having said that now there is just no way anybody can put this genie back in, unless we break Pakistan and seize control of their nuclear assets........which indeed may actually happen in the future to rid the world of this ISLAMIC NUCLEAR BLACKMAIL once & for all!
Check this out:
"There's a Hindu bomb, a Jewish bomb and a Christian bomb, there must be an Islamic bomb." – Former Pakistan President Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. Libya’s Gaddaffi along with the Saudis were the chief financiers.
TIME Story “PAKISTAN – The Islamic Bomb” July 09, 1979
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,920461,00.html#ixzz1He2qpGgJ
Also check out this EYE-OPENING Book:
"AMERICA AND THE ISLAMIC BOMB – THE DEADLY COMPROMISE" which talks about the EXISTENTIAL THREAT to America, Europe and Israel (even more than for India) from the Islamic bomb.
http://books.google.com/books?id=b28qAAAAYAAJ&q=america+and+the+ISLAMIC+BOMB&dq=america+and+the+ISLAMIC+BOMB&hl=en&ei=4yHATfeQFOSQ0QGg74yEBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA
Also, check out my resp. above May 3, 2011 1:29 am.
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Let's look at Pakistan's role in the fight against terrorism. Pakistan is playing a double role. That is correct. Why? Let's see. Every nation works for its own benefit. The US used Pakistan in the fight against the Russians in Afghanistan. The US left Afghanistan in chaos after the USSR left. The Afghani tribes fought against each other. Pakistan supported the Afghan refugees and sent them to Afghanistan and brought them to power. Pakistan wanted a friendly Afghan govt. There is nothing wrong here. Those were called Taliban. They were not against the West or the US; they turned against the US when the US attacked Afghanistan. When Taliban came to power some of Afghan officials fled to India.
When Taliban were removed, Pakistan continued their support to the Taliban knowing that some day the US will leave Afghanistan (in turmoil as before) and the Pakistanis did not want an Indian backed Afghan govt. There are currently about 20 Indian missions in Afghanistan. The current Afghani Govt. consists of officials that fled to India earlier, is hostile to Pakistan. The US has always used Pakistan for its own interest. The US pays Pakistan billions in aid but that is nothing compared to what the Pakistanis do for the US. The US would never have defeated the USSR in Afghanistan without Pakistan's help. It would have been extremely difficult and costly to provide supplies to the NATO forces in Afghanistan without going through Pakistan.
A CIA agent was caught in Pakistan and the phone number revealed that he was in contact with the religious parties. Why? May be the CIA is supporting the religious unrest in Pakistan. The US has always played a double role. They have played from both sides of the table. Now the Pakistan and the US both playing a double game against each other and they both know it.
Pakistan....The Friend of my enemy is My Enemy! Get used to it!
You have to understand the difference between a friend and an ally. An ally has specific interests in which both countries may agree upon but does not mean that it will be a mutual relationship. There will be disagreements which would lead to some uncertainty, but the fact of the matter is, US is relying too heavily on Pakistan's Intelligence when clearly the Pakistani government has no interest in Bin Laden.
some some comments on this forum are incite-full, provocative, and contentious by nature from one background. And, that tells you lot, if you think about it.
Live and Let live with a good heart.
Life is short and uncertain.
Hate can only take a person so far, because a hateful person hurts his own health (spiritual and physical health)
Pakistan has been fighting the terrorist, lost 30,000 of its own people to terrorist attacks from OBL followers, 5000 soldiers gave their lives fighting the OBL followers. Think about it.
Pakistan has to handle the local sensitivities also, because thousands of innocent pakhtoon civilians lost their lives to drone attacks, their families and friends do not appreciate Pakistan supporting America.
Life is not black and white. There are shades everywhere, and one has to be careful.
@Perflead .. Don't forget Pakistan have been sending terrorists to India .. u seem to have forgotten Mumbai attack .. any one who has sympathy with terrorists should be considered a terrorist ...
Their internal problems are just that, their problem. We don't care that they can't control their own people, we just don't want them flying our planes into our buildings over here.
Any terrorism in their country against themselves are just fights between rival power struggles, and who wants to be in control of what. It's just like the Warlords in Africa. We don't care that they've lost 30,000 people due to internal fighting.
We had a civil war also, big deal.
As a Pakastani, I can say we are taking America and making it ours!
Yeah i've got your general characteristics down pretty much, that's the reason i know your country knew Bin Laden was living in your country.
Cheap, dishonest, and no integrity.
You already have all the convenience stores and motels. Could you clean them please? They are filthy.
Patel you are an Indian, one can tell from your name. Atleast have the brains to use a Pakistani name when commenting as a Pakistani.
One of the following CONCLUSION must be right:
1/ Pakistan government is very imcompotent (its intelligent is NOT INTELLIGENT)
2/ Pakistan is a Terrorist State
One more thought you usually find lot of flies around a piece of jaggery...similarly the large number of taliban presence in pak indicates that they are there protecting something sacred and now we realized the sacred thing is Osama...I am not sure what sort of analysis intelligence agencies are doing I smell a lot of foul play...and the entire media is controled by the govt and there is no way for common people to know the truth behind all this events...pak govt & ISI made US beleive he is hiding in N Wazaristan and got billions of dollars in aid never gave a damn about the numerous pak soliders and civilian casualities... pak citizens must revolt agains the corrupted govt & intelligence and bring in democracy and peace they have to eliminate all the bad elements out of their country.
i am from pakistan. honestly, i HATE pakistani officials...they are very very dishonest with us. they are of course protecting terrorists. no question. i love USA but its officials are also stupid bec they have given pakistan lots of money for the poor but the paki officials pocket the proceeds for themselves...i know it bec i have seen it!
Oh Please! The Pakistan government was fully supporting Bin Laden because he was a cash cow. They get money to find Bin Laden, they get money to control Taliban, they get money to stop terrorism. And why would they do anything if all they have to do is sit back and take the money? So spare me these apologetic lines like "some support". Sure Pakistan government is a "partner" but what does that mean really? Does it mean sending some soldiers to fight on the Afghan border while safely tucking Bin Laden next to a military compound? You can term such relationships in whichever way you want to, something as ridiculous as the word "ally" to describe Pakistan, but really this amounts to treachery. And the funny thing is none of what I wrote above is new. In fact everyone knows but surprisingly nothing is done about it.
The U..S needs to tread with care, as it is distinctly possible the Pakistan government had no knowledge at all of Bin Laden's hiding place in Abbotabad. However, I do not swallow that some faction of the local authorities were not aware of his presence, and were in fact protecting Bin Laden's anonymity from the rest of the World, and maybe even support the doctrines of Al Queda.
There is a presumption that Bin Laden stayed put for what, 5 or 6 years? Unlikely. He was probably constantly on the move, under cover of darkness, and under heavy disguise and concealment, with the complicity of the faction that was protecting him.
All this proves is that Pakistan is not of one voice. An overwhelming surprise? Not at all.
Something stinks big time, and the Pakistan Government should perform a full security check on all personnel serving in the Government, Military and Police in the Abbotabad locality to determine what has gone so sadly worng here.
I feel bad for people in Pakistan. Pakistani administration is so bad that people in Pakistan isn't even getting any good information. Instead, they are getting mislead to believe that USA/India and other countries are conspiring against Pakistani people. But the truth is its the Pakistani administration that is conspiring against Pakistani people. How in the world can any government or city officials look away from a structure like this within a kilometer of military academy?? Forget osama for a minute. I would be worried that somebody in that large compound could be plotting against my military academy if I were city official. I would go and raid that compound to protect my future military members. I am sure Pakistani administration was in bed with Osama.. Pakistani people come out of this denial.. Accept that there is problem in administration. That is the first step towards your people's welfare... Wake up.. These terrorists are the people blowing your people up even after you give them place to live and protect them..
US is just a sucker. Pakistan is just milking the information giving us a little at a time and collecting a lot of money from us. The would never give us Bin Laden but give us others for the milk money.
They knew where he was all the time. We paid them 18 Billion dollars and got some peon terrorist.
It is entirely possible they did not know bin Laden was living in the compound. Do you know who lives two streets over from you? A military academy is a training facility, not an investigative service or spy agency. Give them the benefit of the doubt before condemning. I'm sure whatever is found in bin Laden's computers will tell us much more about who was involved with him, and we can go from there.
Ah, yes...I think Pakistan is fully aware that Osama was there. Is this rocket science?
The Gulf News, the English language newspaper of the Arabia peninsula, reported yesterday that the compound in which Bin Laden was hiding has been used in the past as a safe house by Pakistani Intelligence. Interesting.
Click on this link to read that story:
http://gulfnews.com/news/world/other-world/bin-laden-compound-in-pakistan-was-once-an-isi-safe-house-1.802539
Another angle to looks at all this, did CIA believe in ISI in searching for OSAMA, did CIA stop their hunt for OSAMA in Pak. I believe CIA would have had the knowledge of him in Pak for a long time. US funding Pak, US gov knows Pakistan's stand on terrorism and funding them is part is US's strategy for its long standing presence in part of the globe. Pakistan is just a puppet.
Intelligence failure can always happen.
Terrorist attack on world trade center was intelligence failure
Losing OBL in torabora was intelligence failure,and bad military decision which American military even accept.
so was, Not knowing OBL is inside the building in Abbot Abad is intelligence failure.
Houses surrounded by high walls, and huge gate is a common in north west frontier province of Pakistan, recently renamed PAKHTOON KHWA . It is not an uncommon site. You pass by houses in that region with high walls and huge gates, and don't get concerned or suspicious.
All world Terrorists are hiding in Pakistan. They are the one who took our Billion of dollars and protecting Bin Ladin. It is our time to freeze their assets. It was a good decision of President Obama . We should close all ties with Pakistan
Let's not forget, the US government knew WHERE Eric Rudolph was and still couldn't find him. The government couldn't find the Unabomber. And that is in our own country. Why is it so hard to believe someone who doesn't go out in public (like the unabomber) could hide without being noticed? Should the government go into every house that is built to verify the occupants are not criminals?? Yeah, maybe the Pakistani Government did help hide him, but let's not be so quick to assume guilt.
I am surprised that US politicians reaction to have found Osama in Pakistani Sub-urbs. Pakistan has a track record of harboring Terrorists and lie in the face(case in point – Dawood Ibrahim(who have married his daughter to a Pakistani cricketer ). Bali bomber, LeT chief. Inspite of this track record...you think no one was unaware of Osama's presence? you must be kidding.
And for Pakistan's statment of loosing soldiers for fight against Terrorism... there is a famous saying..."those who took to GUN will Die by it". Pakistan has been aiding and abetting Terrorists to operate in Kashmir... Now they are reaping its rewards.
Final Note: Pakistani President in his last year US Visit has been asking for Drone Technolog and Billions of Dollars... US Congress with little encouragement from Lobbyists would gleefully give it away, in the name of helping our allies. WHAT A JOKE. ITS TIME Main Stream America takes notice of what these politicans have been giiving pakistan money for.
PAKISTAN can never be an ally in our war against Terrorism for Simple reason it is a TERRORIST State. USA Please wake up to reality atleast now, Its never late.
Know what would look good in Pakistan? India...time to turn that many-armed bad boy loose.
US is just a sucker. Pakistan is just milking the information giving us a little at a time and collecting a lot of money from us. They would never give us Bin Laden but give us others for the milk money.
They knew where he was all the time. We paid them 18 Billion dollars and got some peon terrorist.
Please post this on other internet sites
Pakistan surely did not want to eat the DUCK THAT LAY GOLDEN EGGS!
Rumor has it the computers seized contain the names and locations of every Al-qeida associate in the world. This will mark the end of their organization. Anyone connected to any person in the database is also now suspect and on the list. You know who you are, and don't be surprised to wake up to Navy Seal Team 6 some early morning when you think you are secure and cozy in bed. That means anyone, no matter who they are, or what position they hold.
I beleive there is some strange power that controls the events in this world and behind all these events are either instigated by nature or by human emotions (But we tend to use religion as the cause). Before the world comes to an end there is chaos there is misery imbalance in gender populations (male:female) already in india it is a fact where the male:female ratio has gone greater than 1...is the world comming to an end ?
American Muslim and OTHERS WHO THINK I HATE MUSLIMS just b'coz they happen to be Muslims:
Surely you prove my assertions in the my above post – May 3, 2011 at 11:14 am
Having said that: I am used to SELF STYLED moderate Muslims calling me all kinds of names, even though I RESERVE SOME OF MY GREATEST PRAISE FOR PAKISTANI MUSLIMS & THEIR #1 daily DAWN.
Check out my following responsesI posted recently on CNN: (there are scores of them in that discussion alone!)
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/20/ahmed-rashid-on-negotiating-with-the-taliban/
"Unless there is a marked change in the behavior by Muslims by following the lead of some TRULY ENLIGHTENED, FORWARD LOOKING MUSLIMS like Pakistan's own Irfan Hussain, Nadeem Paracha, Pervez Hoodbhoy, I A Rehman, Kamraan Shafi, and India's gems like Abdul Kalaam, AR Rehman (formerly Hindu), Azim Premji, and DEFINETLY NOT Indian/Indian origin Muslims like FAREED ZAKARIA, Shah Rukh Khan, Dilip Kumar, Mansur Ali Khan Pataudi, Md. Azarduddin, there is no way we will sort out our differences with NOT just with Pakistan, but with the entire Muslim world.
The day that happens, problems like Af-Pak, Kashmir, Palestine, Chechnya, Thailand's Malay-Pattani region, Philipines' Mindano insurgency, Kosovo, and China's Ugur will no longer pose a threat to those countries or the world at large.
Here are some more excerpts from the same discussion:
You are right when you say that Hindus are among the most loving of peoples, just as Christians, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, Bahai, Jewish, Parsi are (don’t go back into the past, we are talking 21 century). Having said that, I am NOT against Muslims merely b'coz they are Muslim, even though going by a REAL INTERPRETATION of Islamic teachings YOU are NOT EVEN considered a Muslim when you don't follow its teachings VERBATIOM. Unlike practitioners of ALL OTHER religions, Muslims do NOT have a choice to SELECTIVELY accept/reject/or EVEN QUESTION their holy texts, b'coz those are the words from ALLAH DIRECT!
So, while there are TRUE GEMS amongst Muslims (including several Pakistanis (Refer my resp. below date time stamp – April 21, 2011 at 12:11 am), just as MOST non-believers KNOW, there is a dire need for the VAST MAJORITY to realize that all gods are NOT Allah, and ISLAM is NOT the ONLY way of life. Unless Muslims learn to co-exist in HONOR they will ONLY CONTINUE to get the respect they DESERVE!
c) Thirdly, I never agree with Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh etc. in saying that we need to crush Muslims all over the world. I am STRONGLY against the UNJUST IRAQ war, and the MEANINGLESS Af-Pak war. I have always said that America needs to pack their bags from there, let the Muslims handle their own affairs w/o our interference, but let them know in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that we will be back with full force if ever they conspire again against us. From that perspective AMERICA's intervention to CUT-OFF the head of all Islamic terror emanating from PAKISTAN is LOOOOOONG OVERDUE!!
d) Finally, unless Muslims NOTABLY EDUCATED, SMART, INTELLIGENT COVERT ISLAMISTS Like Mr.FAREED ZAKARIA learn NOT to associate every Muslim issue ALL OVER THE WORLD (including PERCIEVED Ones!) to explain away Muslim discontent. (in fact he uses the word "HATE") against America, Israel, Europe, Russia etc., and EXPEND THEIR ENERGY to fight the daily atrocities against MINORITIES living in their own Muslim lands, rather than URGING ALREADY KIND & COMPASSINATE Americans to BOW DOWN FURTHER TO THEIR UNDADPTABLE NEW IMMIGRANTS, people like ZAKARIA will NEVER be seen as some one who loves America & Americans (INSPITE OF HIS PRETENSIONS!!!!!)."
I INVITE READERS TO TELL ME IF I AM WRONG!
Amit-Atlanta-USA
It is no secret that millions of Pakistanis support Islamic extremists. How many times have we seen videos of thousands of their people chanting death to America?...and those are just the ones who are vocal about it.
now having the hard disk and pen drives of osama which U.S. Intelligence Probing.. Its a matter of time before all the Possible Pakistani Support System will be known.
That's very true!
But the question is what we do all that info?
Pakistan will NEVER EVER STOP CHEATING......PERIOD!
The one & only solution to rid the world of Islamic Nuclear blackmail & Islamic terror is by breaking Pakistan and siezing their Nuclear assets, something that the CIA & FBI just know too well.
Implementation of such a plan may well be underway while all these CAT & MOUSE games are on.....
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Over the decades India has given the US tonnes of info on Pakistani jihadist & nuclear activities. Quite frankly the US did not act on those as we thought those were only directed at India.
But things have surely changed a great deal after 9/11, 26/11, 7/7 etc. etc.
Amit-Atlanta-USA
I like what you wrote but I have a question here as now, It is close to confirmation that Pakistan is harboring terrorists on its soil. Will US declare Pakistan as terrorist state? Will US actively pressurise Pakistan to hand over perpetartors of 26/11 to India? US has given slight justice to its people as far as terror goes but being very active in world politics and self appointed righteous country, will it try to give justice to victims of terror attacks in other countries?
Mexico is the Latin America Pakistan because while they are receiving millions from USA and playing a not so clear "loyalty" role, they are also receiving billions from China and flooding Mexican owned companies abroad with cheap and low quality Chinese equipment that even Narco President Calderon is not approving in his own soil.
USA government agencies needs to investigate the use of Chinese made Network/Communication equipment in companies such as "Claro" ("Clear" here in the states) in their companies for example Puerto RIco. Carlos Slim, World richest man from Mexico, receive billions of dollars in equipment from the Chinese's that after been rejected by the Mexican government, due to the low quality has been shipped to USA and its possessions to be tested and used, even after been warned by the engineers that the broadband speed and communication services would be at risk.
While than happens, thousands of American jobs are loss.
Don't support "Clear" (http://www.clear.com/) because it's a Mexican owned company, solely owned by the worlds corrupted man named Carlos Slim who careless about quality and does not supports the use of American equipment and is not loyal to USA.
Truth matters not. Only perception is celebrated.
I write a blog. have a look at that as a diff. perspective
http://pundit-shoutitloud.blogspot.com/2011/05/justice-has-done-and-pending-as-far-as.html
Oh and the corrupt Gov didn't know anything about the murderers who attacked India or the assassination of Bhutto. The Pakistan Gov is made up lying POSs, why the US GOV believes anything they say is beyond me and they should stop giving them money and weapons.
The Pakistani military knew he was hiding out there. I am sure someone (maybe a lot of someone's) got paid off just to keep quiet about where he was. I think the US should stop giving them money because really the Pakistani government can't be trusted. That is quite clear to me.
As a person of Indian origin, I am not the least surprised. India has been stabbed in it's back by this neighbor many times. It's just that Indian's gutless leadership has done nothing about it. Today, Pakistan's real character is in front of the world. I am thankful that US intelligence decided not to share this info, or else Osama would have escaped. it's possible the Govt. itself may no have known, but I refuse to believe that no one knew, with such a military presence right in the city.
You guys got to hear this. Many on pakistani forums are arguing that Bin Laden was killed in Afghanistan by the US a while ago. On Sunday, they staged an eloborate scheme to bring his body into the Pakistani city (Abbbb...bad whatever), take pictures of dead Bin Laden, explode a bunch of bombs, even destroy one of their own helicopters to make it look real and then flew away. Why did the US do all of this? According to these conspiracy theorists, the US wants to invade Pakistan and this is an excuse. The funny (or sad) part is many Pakistanis firmly believe these theories.
Well, now tell me if this isn't entertaining?
Check this out:
Conspiracy Theories 'Stamped In DNA' Of Pakistanis…. Dec 24th, 2009
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121880229
Conspiracy theory on the Pak flood situation……….Irfan Hussain
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/19-irfan-husain-the-foreign-hand-strikes-again-880-hh-05
Indeed, I have recently received an email with reference to a scientific breakthrough with the acronym of HAARP that is supposed to allow people to alter the weather pattern. The theory that was posted with details about this technology blamed villainous foreigners of causing the unprecedented downpour that triggered the floods.
Ayesha Siddiqa, 56 per cent of elite youth do not want a secular state. Indeed there are many who fail critical thinking courses because they stubbornly decided that what we, the liberal teachers, are doing is part of the grand Hindu-Zionist-CIA conspiracy just because we are presenting them with alternative perspectives and asking them to be sensitive to other views. They are, after all, a product of the society they live in and most do not have a living memory of the world before September 11. I have witnessed students say that they would like to personally behead Ahmadis. What we are breeding is an even more dangerous form of terrorist than the ignorant, brainwashed madrassa students who do not know any better. I wonder how many future Faisal Shahzads and Dr Aafias are out there…. Nabiha Meher, Pakistani Teacher
http://www.dawn.com/2011/04/29/children-of-zia.html
Pakistan does not have an image problem; its problems are very real and entrenched….Akbar Zaidi…Dawn 04/14/11 Story titled “Uncomfortable Despondency”
Pakistani CONSPIRACY THEORIES-Pak preparing for WW-III with US-
Alert: CIA Spy Captured Giving Nuclear Bomb to Terrorists in Pakistan
http://www.pakalertpress.com/2011/02/21/alert-cia-spy-captured-giving-nuclear-bomb-to-terrorists-in-pakistan/
Release of terrorists by Pakistan’s Anti Terror Courts:
Overall conviction rate in terrorist cases stood at five per cent. The courts refused to accept the prosecution evidence and set free extremely dangerous terrorists. One such case, cited as an example, involved the arrest of two alleged suicide bombers along with a suicide jacket, 650 grams of high explosives, a detonating cord and a hand grenade in Peshawar. The court in its judgment handed out in November last noted that any action must involve the use of explosives. The court held that so long as the terrorist did not explode his suicide vest and kill people, it does not constitute a crime,” the court noted that there was no allegation of a bomb blast and therefore, no case could be constituted under the 1997 Anti-Terrorist Act.
In another case, an anti-terrorism court in Nowshera acquitted a man captured during a police raid in which a suicide bomber had blown himself up. The reason, according to the police, was the failure of a police official to appear before the court on account of his wedding.
http://www.dawn.com/2011/03/24/row-over-release-of-suspects-by-atcs-2.html
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Marinedad. Congratulations, you have watched a Michael Moore Mockumentary.
Pakistan did not lose 30,000 civilians to civil war among its own people.
It is the terrorists, the followers of OBL who killed 30,000 Pakistan civilians through terrorist attacks.
Pakistani military lost their 5000 soldiers including high ranking, General & Brigadairs, fighting terrorists, the followers of OBL
Wealthy drug lords, who traffic opium and other drugs (eg., hashish) and illicit commodities, work hand-in-hand with the military and government in Pakistan and Afghanistan. In fact the military and the government work with and for these drug traffickers and vice-versa.
In many ways it’s similar to what’s occurring in Mexico, with the drug lords who traffic cocaine and marijuana into the US .
The lucrative drug trade is the key to the power in these countries, and one would be naïve to think that the governments of these countries are ignorant of this, or that they will stop this.
It is time for the world to wake up to the reality of the problem of drugs and the horrors and unholy violence and corruption, which accompanies this.
Great post Fareed. Thank you for being honest and telling the truth that at some level of Pakistani government and intelligence they knew Bin Laden was hiding in their country and in fact protecting him. Thank you for making it clear that President Karzai of Afghanistan stopped cooperating with Bin Laden when he came to power years ago, and thus Bin Laden was forced to move to Pakistan for protection. We must never forget that the Taliban was created in Pakistan and then sent out to Afghanistan to control it. The people pulling the Taliban strings was the Pakistani government. Why is Pakistan so keen on meddling in Afghanistan's affairs? Is it because they hope that Pakistan and Afghanistan will become one country so that Pakistan can have access to the central Asian countries of Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan?
Great post Fareed. Thank you for being honest and telling the truth that at some level of Pakistani government and intelligence they knew Bin Laden was hiding in their country and in fact protecting him. Thank you for making it clear that President Karzai of Afghanistan stopped cooperating with Bin Laden when he came to power years ago, and thus Bin Laden was forced to move to Pakistan for protection. We must never forget that the Taliban was created in Pakistan and then sent out to Afghanistan to control it. The people pulling the Taliban strings was the Pakistani government. Why is Pakistan so keen on meddling in Afghanistan's affairs? Is it because they hope that Pakistan and Afghanistan will become one country so that Pakistan can have access to the central Asian countries of Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan? As an Afghan American I can say that most Afghans have no interest in opening their borders to Pakistan. We would just like Pakistan to stop interfering in our affairs and to stop sending the Taliban into our country from Pakistan.
Always enjoy Fareed's insight.
To his point, there is not unilateral support in Pakistan through a variety of reasons that may include (but probably not limited to): Religion, corruption, incompetence, bureaucracy and vast unmanageable geography.
It's a sad history of Pakistan. India and Pakistan were given the same opportunities during partition in 1947 and look at the differences between the 2 nations today.
Pakistan has little going for it, while India is a powerhouse that gets noticed.
It is true, Al Qaida could not have worked in Pakistan without some level of support from the Pakistani establishment.
Similarly, Taliban must be receiving weapons and training from somebody (guess who) in order fight the superior and well equipped American troops in Afghanistan. The problem with us is that we need 100% undeniable proof before we can suspect someone, but these terrorist countries have no such compunctions.
I'm not defending the Pakistani government, but in my mind it is entirely possible that no one knew he was there. First, ask why he would trust any of the Pakistanis enough to alert them he was hiding there. He probably wouldn't. Any one of them could have ratted him out for cold hard American cash. Second, if he does not go outside and someone else living there has an alibi for building that place (maybe a rich person, the woman perhaps, wanting to be left alone), and the courier has an alibi as well ... then he's undetected. Remember, this is a largely intelligent and motivated man with world powers looking for him ... he may have had the discipline to law ultra low for decades if necessary.
Well, it is not that simple. Bin Laden would not trust any minion in the Pakistani government. He was not that stupid. He had connections. He would trust only a very high level officers in the all-powerful Pakistani intelligence agency. I am sure the civilian President of pakistan knew nothing about this. So, why wouldn't the high level intelligence officers sell him out? Because they get more than a billion $ in aid from the US, no questions asked. A lot of this money is pocketed by these officers and they live in a luxury we can only dream of. So far Pakistan has recevied more than 11 billion dolloars in aid and nobody knows what happened to it.
$1 billion is much, way much better than $25 million placed on Bin Laden's head.
Look at the facts on the ground before making a comment.
Who has been sending hundreds of terrorist to GB, including Khalid Shaikh who provided the lead to the courier?
Which country in the entire world lost most of its people to the attack from terrorists, the followers of OBL?
Answer: Pakistan lost 30,0000 civilians to terrorist attack by OBL followers
Which country's military in the entire world lost lives fighting terrorists, fighting the followers of OBL?
Pakistan lost 5000 soldiers including Generals & Brigadares fighting the followers of OBL
Why is is Obama, Mrs Clinton, John Kerry, Dick Cheney, Gates are clearly giving credit to Paksitan?
Why Obama and Mrs Clinton clearly credited Pakistan in their last speeches?
Are they all lying? i
It also seems beyond belief that US helicopters could invade this particular Pakistani arispace, with support aircraft overhead and Predator drones everywhere, without the covert approval (reluctant acquiesence?) of the Pakistan military nearby. Looks like they simply refused to choose sides, that they just set back and watched the combatants duke it out.
That may very well be true!
But when YOU ARE CAUGHT WITH PANTS DOWN (by someone many times more powerful than you are!), there is nothing much anyone can do!
We will ever know the WHOLE truth; but Obama said Pakistan did not know before the Attack. Pakistani Air Defense is said to be pretty good – They would have seen Helicopters Coming in time to Warn Bin Laden. The US must have told them when the Helicopters lifted; that a Predator was over the Site ready to fire missiles if bid Laden was tipped off and started to run -and there would be HELL to pay if he did.
Pakistan knew about the raid and gave permission. That's why we aren't bombing them today. But we didn't give them enough warning to call Osama up.
The Taliban was CREATED in Pakistan from Afghan Refugees from the war with the SOVIETS – when Bin Laden was a CIA 'Asset'. MULLAHS radicalized the Refugees who returned to Afghanistan outfitted by the ISI – the Pakistani Intelligence/Terrorist Agency – the ones who Attacked the Hotel in Mumbai, India – and LATER by the U.S. The GULF WAR turned them against the US.
Thinking Pakistan knew he was there. Lets think, Bin Laden's network certainly blew up sh.. everywhere and you know they would deliver on all the Pakistani Gov buildings if his cover was blown. Pakistani was silenced. Very smart move
by Obama to send Seals in, seems they met little resistance ,and Bin Laden's and people were taken by surprise and not prepared !
I don't know if Pakistan's military knew where Bin Laden was, but the fact that he was found where he was doesn't prove anything.
I remember a little girl was kidnapped in California and for 18 years was held in a residential neighborhood. And for some of those years she lived in a tent in the backyard. That doesn't mean that the police and city officials helped hide her.
Yeah true, but that girl was alone and she wasn't doing any acts of terrorism with the help of so many jihadis..
She was also being held against her will. Osama was living there willingly.. It's not like he was walking the neighborhood to go to the local store. So if he said inside the compound who would know he was there.
Actually the cops went to the house, didn't bother to look at the back yard, and went away saying things were fine. So, yes, the cops helped hide her.
They were also told a very plausible story by the kidnapper. It's always easy to second guess.
USA should take a next step declare Pakistan as a "Terrorist State". Then they should pass UN resolution for economic embargo and travel ban to the country.
I agree.
So what are we going to do about the drug trafficking, which is the life’s-blood of these terroristic organizations, like al Qaeda?
Wealthy drug lords, who traffic opium and other drugs (eg., hashish) and illicit commodities, work hand-in-hand with the military and government in Pakistan and Afghanistan. In fact the military and the government work with and for these drug traffickers and vice-versa.
In many ways it’s similar to what’s occurring in Mexico, with the drug lords who traffic cocaine and marijuana into the US .
The lucrative drug trade is the key to the power in these countries, and one would be naïve to think that the governments of these countries are ignorant of this, or that they will stop this.
It is time for the world to wake up to the reality of the problem of drugs and the horrors and unholy violence and corruption, which accompanies this.
Shortly before we invaded Afghanistan the TALIBAN had nearly ELIMINATED OPIUM PRODUCTION – Now this US Occupied Country supplies over 80% of the World's Supply – converted into Heroin flooding our streets.
Don't be naive. They were limiting production to drive up the price of opiats. Then they release their product. It's kind of like when OPEC limits production of oil to drive up prices. They weren't trying to help the drug problem in America, they were trying to make a better profit.
You made a good point.
It goes both ways – Israel must have known about 9/11. That's why they had hundreds of Mossad agents running wild working as locksmiths and movers and mall kiosk junk dealers and art student scams. To fund their spy operations on Americans which included monitors all the hijacker activities in close proximity. Some Hebrew-speaking New Yorkers must have known about it too because they were overheard and it was reported to the FBI before 9/11. A Mossad agent arrested in Canada mentioned a terror attack that would take place in multiple cities – including NYC and Chicago skyscrapers. The latter never occurred but a moving van full of shady stuff including extensive video footage of the Sears Tower was intercepted by police and the Mossad agents arrested and deported. There were many white vans – some reported to explode or contained explosives – on 9/11. The most famous was the Dancing Israelis filming the destruction of tower 1 BEFORE people knew it was a terror attack indicating foreknowledge. They have a photo of a celebratory cigarette lighter flicked to prove this. When several vans were intercepted, all the arresting officers were convinced they were involved and all the Israelis tried to blame Palestinians as if that was the original story. The head of the Dancing Israeli's moving company fled to Israel and was wanted by the FBI on the same list as other potential terrorists.
It's easy to get lost in wacky conspiracy theories and dismiss them as crazy because 99% of them are. But when you have facts that Israel AT THE VERY LEAST must have known about 9/11 and with evidence that they may have even pulled it off (trained the hijackers to be extremist and then allowed them on the flights which were all staffed by ISRAELI SECURITY COMPANIES) you should be pretty concerned because Washington would have you believe that little slab of religious fanatics in the Middle East with their stolen/hidden nukes are our bestest friends in the world.
Pak security tips Osama whenever US troops approached: Wikileaks
LONDON: American diplomats were told that one of the key reasons why they had failed to find Osama bin Laden for years was that Pakistan's security services tipped him off whenever US troops approached, according to claims made in leaked US government documents obtained by Wikileaks.
Wikileaks? I bet the GOP was tipping him off. They are really angry about this outcome.
Pakistan is a cesspool of terrorism. They have been hiding Osama for a long long time!!! The $20B spent on pursuing Osama and given to Pakistan to hunt him – Pakistan has taken USA for a ride all this while. It is high time to dismantle the ISI & other networksof state sponsored terrorism in Pakistan. Look at the attacks that was carried out by Pakistan in India. Time to bomb & take out Pakistan!!!!
You do REALIZE that Pakistan is one of the LARGEST countries in the WORLD. Its not like 'Taking Out' a Hut in the mountains or even a Mansion in a Resort City. 500,000,000 people is quite a few for even Nuclear Weapons to 'Take Out'.
Yes.. I do agree, when I say "Take out", I meant take out these Politicians and people supporting/Harboring these Terrorists.. The fun will begin for Pakistan when USA stops the $Billion of Aid that they were extending to Pakistan for hunting Osama!!!!
Pakistan knew, and so did Cheney and Bush. I bet Cheney's number is in Osama's phone.
...and on 'Speed Dial'....
Pakistan never had any incentive to turn over OBL. He had internal political support and sympathy from large portions of the population, and we give them billions to hunt for him. He was the goose that laid the golden egg. You don't give away a goose like that. You keep him close at hand in a nice comfy nest and collect eggs. Forunately smart guys in the CIA figured out years ago that we would never catch OBL working with Pakistan (catching him was not in their best interest). We built our own intel and never told our "partner" what we were planning. If we had bombed this site, Pakistan security would have scrubbed the crime scene and claimed we had taken out a "wedding party" at their military academy. US Boots on the ground was the only option...
Now I see why Bush called off the hunt for Osama all those years ago and said he didn't want anyone looking over the border in good old Pakistan. He was afraid we'd actually catch him.
I saw on the news that people in the region called Osama's compound: "Waziristan" – which is the remote location where American's believed Osama bin Laden to be hiding in a cave. And if the locals knew about it, you can bet the officals and the military base knew about it.
Obama 2012!!!
I'm going to vote for him sixteen times by using the GOP voting machines!
Justice has done and pending as far as India goes
May 2, 2011 turned out to be very important in the history of US and of war against terror as the perpetrator of 9/11 terrorist attack, Osama Bin Laden was killed by US forces deep inside the Pakistan, in a very meticulously planned attack. This has long lasting consequences at least as a symbolic victory against terror as most wanted criminal against humanity brought to Justice. The question which is important in Indian perspective is whether it will help India in any way on its war on terror? This event has confirmed what India has been saying all along that Pakistan is a safe haven for terrorist but other than that it does not change much for India. Amongst the countries facing terror, India has been most vocal about the dual faced policies of Pakistan's establishment. This is not without any reason as India has historically found it very difficult to deal with Pakistan and had to face many times differences between their words and deeds. Pakistan, on one hand, promised to act against the terrorists operating on its soil but on the other hand, it never fulfilled its promises. In fact, the perpetrators of 26/11 attack are still roaming freely in Pakistan and generating more hatred against India. Pakistan's demands about proofs that 26/11 attack was designed and generated on its soil is just a sham as they are not willing to take this matter seriously. Pakistan prefers to live in a state of denial and it is important to note that it also never accepted that Osama was hiding in Pakistan. It will be interesting to see now how international community reacts to this situation as Osama has been found to be living so close to the Islamabad in Abbotabad which also houses Pakistan's military academy. It is inconceivable to think that Pakistan's establishment or intelligence has no idea of his whereabouts all along. It will be very important to see now how open US will be about the Pakistan's state's involvement in keeping terrorists safe in their country. Will US declare Pakistan as a terrorist state?
It will be very naive to assume that US does not know about the dual face of Pakistan when it comes to terror. Infact, this operation itself showed how less they trust Pakistan on war of terror. This whole operation was conducted by US itself and we can safely assume that they must have shared very little or no intelligence as far as this operation goes. They, though still can not abandon Pakistan completely and will keep engaging them in Af-Pak region as an ally as Pakistan is definitely more beneficial for them as an ally in the region than enemy. This is necessary evil which US will have to continue with as the war on terror has not got over yet. Osama was just a face of Al Qaida and it has been reported that he was non-functional for quite some time. Therefore, terror structure is still there and most probably will continue to operate. From India's perspective, they will have to keep pressurising Pakistan to hand over them the perpetrators of 26/11 . India has no other option but to push its case by asking other countries to also pressurise Pakistan for hand over the perpetrators of 26/11 to India. The other terrorist outfits like Jaish-e-Mohammad or Lashkar-e-toiba are more important for India as these are the organisation which are carrying out attacks in India and works against India. India can not emulate US as far as its most wanted terrorist goes as it will result into another war with Pakistan. Therefore, killing of Osama, on one hand is a very important symbolic victory of war against terror especially for US but on the other hand for India it is still a long way to go before we talk about delivering justice to terror victims on our land.
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It seems preposterous that Pakistan would not leave themselves some plausible deniability, if in fact they were hiding Osama Bin Laden. If they were hiding him, it wouldn't be near an army base. If I was the leader of Pakistan and I was pro-terror- I would tell Osama to hide in my country, but away from any official government building, police, military so that if he was found, my country would not be held accountable and attacked. Unless they are blatantly sponsoring terrorism or completely inept.
It is amazing how many people are happy to use incidents such as these to further their own prejudices and agendas. When someone resorts to name calling and racial insults, it proves that they are no better than an 8 year old playground bully.
Calling Fareed Zakariyya a Muslim ideoligist/radical/apoligist is like calling John Boehner a Democrat. Zakariyya has, for over a decade, illustrated kee, insightful knowledge about International Relations and Current Events, that has propelled him fom Newsweek to CNN and gained him the respect of not only the news organizations, but also politicians, diplomats and the administration. His reputation and achievements speak for themselves and hardly need to be defended.
As for OBL, it seems that the media has jumped on spinning the story to make Pakistan look bad, which is not surprising since Pakistan always seems to be the scapegoat. It was Obama's agenda to make Pakistan the target from before his election, and he has managed to do so.
1. How many prisoners that Pakistan has turned over to the US?? Including KSM, the mastermind of 9/11 and other al Qaeda big shots, even going back decades to Ramzi Yusuf in the 1990's.
2. Pakistan is a big country with a huge population, it is not very hard to hide out there. I have travelled in that particular area in the 1980's and I remember that the roads are narrow, treacherous and flood-prone.
3. In the past few years, Pakistan has lost over 30,000 innocent civilians in terrorist related attacks. That's 9/11 x 10, for those of you whose math is weak.
4. How many of you know if your neighbors have cable? high speed internet? satellite? I certainly don't know about my neighbors... who cares about these things?? It is not uncommon to have only cell phones in Pakistan since the land lines are soooo unreliable and BAD. What were people supposed to notice when there are 12 foot walls surrounding the compound? Those of us from the Subcontinent know that it is normal to have these walls (chaar-divaree) around houses.
5. He was living in a mansion? Really? It looks pretty sparse on the few pics we have been able to see of the inside. For all the reporting, this house looks a little bigger than surrounding houses but NOT 8 times bigger as they keep repeating in the news. The land surrounding the compound certainly does look bigger, but that is not unusual especially in a scenic place like this where many people have farmhouses/vacation houses. There must be many houses like this throughout the area.
Even Geraldo was saying on FOX news, "I have been to Ussama's house in Khartoum, Sudan and to his house in Jalalabad, Afghanistan, he DOES NOT live in Mansions!!"
6. OBL has been living there for 6 months at the most (according to US govt) not 5-6 years as some people are claiming. Abbottabad is about a 3 hour drive from Islamabad (according to foreign journalists who are just reaching the area and finding out it is not really that accessable).
7. Why has the US been killing innocents in Wazirastan and Pukhtoon if OBL was in Abbottabad all along. Obviously he was NOT. US gov't knows he ahs been on the move for years.
8. Where do you (morons) think those billions are going?? NOT to help Pakistan or the Pakistani people, not to build infrastructure or roads or school. THAT MONEY HAS BEEN GOING TOWARD THE WAR EFFORT and TOWARD helping the US maintain there presence and troops (and undoutably in the pockets of corrupt politicians). If that money stops tomorrow, it will make little or NO difference to the average man in Pakistan.
9. There are over 4000 US personnel living in Islamabad. What the hell have been they been doing? Why didn' t they find OBL if he was so OBVIOUS?
It seems the line between NEWS and ENTERTAINMENT has become so blurred that even the news media seems to latch onto anything and spin it and inflate it in order to make a big STORY out of it. The question that we should be asking ourselves, both Pakistanis and Americans is: WHY is this such a big story, and what is the REAL STORY that they are trying to distract from?
9. There are over 4000 US personnel living in Islamabad. What the hell have been they been doing? Why didn' t they find OBL if he was so OBVIOUS?
..That is typical of Pakistanis ... never admit your guilt .. blame others.. shame on you
Brilliant post, Tina.
Took the words right from me... well done.
The U.S. Govt has more important questions to answer, now... going forward.
How do you know the OBL compund house isn't 8 times larger than its surrounding houses? Did you go to Abbottabad to measure the square footage or did you just arrive at your BS conclusion by looking at the pictures online. Stop preaching. No one cares.
We are paying for Bin Laden's 1 Million dollar house. Stop sending money toPakistan. Just send missiles.
To calrify, this time, send missiles to Pakistan with fuses lit (as opposed to the past where they got military equipment as charitable contributions).
Justice has done and pending as far as India goes
May 2, 2011 turned out to be very important in the history of US and of war against terror as the perpetrator of 9/11 terrorist attack, Osama Bin Laden was killed by US forces deep inside the Pakistan, in a very meticulously planned attack. This has long lasting consequences at least as a symbolic victory against terror as most wanted criminal against humanity brought to Justice. The question which is important in Indian perspective is whether it will help India in any way on its war on terror? This event has confirmed what India has been saying all along that Pakistan is a safe haven for terrorist but other than that it does not change much for India. Amongst the countries facing terror, India has been most vocal about the dual faced policies of Pakistan's establishment. This is not without any reason as India has historically found it very difficult to deal with Pakistan and had to face many times differences between their words and deeds. Pakistan, on one hand, promised to act against the terrorists operating on its soil but on the other hand, it never fulfilled its promises. In fact, the perpetrators of 26/11 attack are still roaming freely in Pakistan and generating more hatred against India. Pakistan's demands about proofs that 26/11 attack was designed and generated on its soil is just a sham as they are not willing to take this matter seriously. Pakistan prefers to live in a state of denial and it is important to note that it also never accepted that Osama was hiding in Pakistan. It will be interesting to see now how international community reacts to this situation as Osama has been found to be living so close to the Islamabad in Abbotabad which also houses Pakistan's military academy. It is inconceivable to think that Pakistan's establishment or intelligence has no idea of his whereabouts all along. It will be very important to see now how open US will be about the Pakistan's state's involvement in keeping terrorists safe in their country. Will US declare Pakistan as a terrorist state?
It will be very naive to assume that US does not know about the dual face of Pakistan when it comes to terror. Infact, this operation itself showed how less they trust Pakistan on war of terror. This whole operation was conducted by US itself and we can safely assume that they must have shared very little or no intelligence as far as this operation goes. They, though still can not abandon Pakistan completely and will keep engaging them in Af-Pak region as an ally as Pakistan is definitely more beneficial for them as an ally in the region than enemy. This is necessary evil which US will have to continue with as the war on terror has not got over yet. Osama was just a face of Al Qaida and it has been reported that he was non-functional for quite some time. Therefore, terror structure is still there and most probably will continue to operate. From India's perspective, they will have to keep pressurising Pakistan to hand over them the perpetrators of 26/11 . India has no other option but to push its case by asking other countries to also pressurise Pakistan for hand over the perpetrators of 26/11 to India. The other terrorist outfits like Jaish-e-Mohammad or Lashkar-e-toiba are more important for India as these are the organisation which are carrying out attacks in India and works against India. India can not emulate US as far as its most wanted terrorist goes as it will result into another war with Pakistan. Therefore, killing of Osama, on one hand is a very important symbolic victory of war against terror especially for US but on the other hand for India it is still a long way to go before we talk about delivering justice to terror victims on our land.
Reply and comment on my blog
http://pundit-shoutitloud.blogspot.com/
Chris who is pro-pakistan is not chris but "Mohamad"
Either Pakistani government and intelligence were spectacularly incompetitent or they were complicant in aiding Ben Laden in his hiding. As is common in that part of the world the politics of money and influence speak loudly and while they may question America's staying power in the region they know the tribes, Taliban and the terrorist organizations will remain so they accomodate. This time it blew up in their faces. It still comes down to our interests in the region and theirs and perhaps this public humiliation will help tilt the scales for a short time.
You kinda wonder what Afghanistan thinks of this. Pakistan got paid off to let American troops invade Afghanistan and they have been occupying it for all these years searching for Bin Laden, all the while Pakistan had him living in luxury and protected.
I hear a lot of my Pakistani friends and some true liberals thumping their chests and saying that Pakistan has lost 1000's of soldiers in battles against the militants.
While that is SOMEWHAT true given that many have been killed in fight with Pakistani Taliban (who are less of a danger to America) , there are scores of reports of FAKE ENCOUNTERS just to HOODWINK Americans and keep the GRAPEVINE RIPE!
Pakistan NEVER allows any international journalists (or even local journalists) to embedd themselves in those so-called raids. Even when a handful of handpicked journalists have been taken (after the fact) they have reported seeing ABSOLUTELY NO SIGNS OF ANY TROUBLE MUCH LESS BLOODY BATTLES.
That's all part of their TAQIYYA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Freed Zak is right, however there was high level pak govt. adm. also aware of bin laden location. Any country in world if next to the army base whenever any strange thing happen official always take look, therefore abottabad army base officer also may go thru laden compound and ignore him after high level ISI officer order.
It seems pretty clear that the Pakistani ISI and military are faced with admitting that they are liars or admitting that they are incompetent. Come on, the guy was almost living in the Presidential palace.
There is absolutely no doubt
Pakistan knew 100% that he was there. Now it's time to cut off Pakistan, no more imports, tax their goods coming into the US 1000%, no more of their people coming into our country, close the borders. DONE!! They played us completely. I am glad he's dead, but there will always be someone else to move up the Terrorist Rankings. They hate American's and our way of life. Let them live in their holes stay the hell out of my Country.
Well if that happens, there goes 50% of the IT Techs and some Online IT Experts for U.S. Corporations...
It doesn't take a genious to see thru the lies that Pakistan is trying to push. They're obviously in kahoots with terror regimes, despite them saying otherwise. It's time to drop a few nukes on their land. Then, and only then, will they get the message that people who want this planet to exist without terrorism are serious about making it so. I guarantee that 15-20 nukes properly placed in Somolia, Yemen and Pakistan; followed by a world tour of SEAL Team 6, would most certainly close the chapter of 'A World with Terrorists' and bring about a new era of humanity and life on planet Earth.
There is absolutely no doubt that this was sponsored by pakistan military and government. and yes, people as well. look up the most popular name for a newborn in pakistan for last 10 years – it is Osama. And no, it wasn't always that – it became so after 9/11. They revered the terrorist and fully supported him. you only have to watch the protests they are doing to understand that. Pakistan has been a terrorist state for last 20 years, and everyone knows it but chooses to ignore it. not it is out in the open, that's all.
India has been saying that this Pakistan is major hub of all terrorist activities. its time to officially declare it a terrorist nation and break all diplomatic ties. Ah and we'd like our $$ back with 10 years of interest mother-lovers..
I work with a lot of people from Pakistan and I can say most of them are lying bastxxxs. I would never trust any of them. Why should we give them aid (as we continue to do)? We need to quit pissing our money away with people that are not genuine. They tell us what we want to hear...and stab us in the back when we aren't looking. Thanks for nothing Pakistan. We need to focus our efforts on the United States of America. We don't need anymore of your people in our country.
General Pasha is the chief of ISI.
He was in the US last week, met 'Penetta, General Petraus, and CIA handed over 85 top of the line drones.
CIA also agreed to leave Shamsi, the base used by the US to launch drones
Penetta got promoted to secy of defense, Gen Petraues got promoted to head of CIA.
And, the next day they launched the operation to capture OBL
So many things happening in the last week
Does it not seem, there is some covert understanding between CIA and ISI.
And, then we hear Obama & Mrs Clinton and the senior brass clearly acknowledging Pakistan without reservation.
what we hear about doubts is only from media, besides few senators historically known to be serving vested interest
We owe it ourselves to clearly identify those senators and congressmen who are on special interest payroll, in our best interest.
I agree with Trex.. we should have let India bomb Pakis all the way to land of 60 little boys and virgin girls a few years ago... we stopped them.
I bet Abbotabad will be renamed Osamabad and Pakistan Pakiland.
Why is it that democracies never survive in the Islamic world? And why is it that we never see Pakis talk ill of their country? I have seen Americans, Brits, Indians and so on talk both positively and negatively about their country and their economy, this is never the case. Pakis always spin it around so US, India and rest of the world gets the blame for every thing. I understand even when Pakiland was formed along with India, Pakis concentrated immediately on terrorizing Kashmir where as India went about building its country. What a contrast... Having travelled to both India and Pakistan, I can tell you there is a wold of difference between these two countries. Indians seem to focus on their economy, kids' education, cultural values and growth while Pakis seem bent totally on Religion, India and the West. Indians in their humdrum living styles seem at peace while Pakis come across as confrontational. You will often see Hindus with Buddhist, Jain and some even Sufi names and I see Hindus praying to even Sufi(Muslim) saints! They seem not to distinguish between religions as much, seems to be a fine line. I saw millions of Hindus worshipping Sai Baba at Shridi, and for those not in the know Sai Baba of Shirdi was a Muslim. Barring an obscene penchant for casteism, Hindus in India seem a world apart from Pakis. You have to see to believe it. I see Pakis in Pakiland and US seem obsessed with getting their dues and asserting their rights every where. What surprises one is how they seem to resent the West... my big mystery always is if they so don't like it here, why not leave the West and go back to Pakiland!? Even educated Pakis in US seem to contribute to charities that support terrorism.... all Pakis in the west are now under watch... I hear there are new websites coming out with PakiWatch as the theme... identify your Paki neighbor on a map so in case of future terror problems you know where trouble can emanate from....
Walters:
Your portrayal of the huge contrasts between predominantly Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan is right on the dot! You are right in that you have seen this as a clear distinction of the two countries’ basic divergent Hindu & Muslim heritage. No wonder we see a clear cut distinction between Hindu India (I must actually say Non-Muslim India) and Muslim India, b'coz Indian Muslims (incl. Mr. Fareed Zakaria) except for some notable exceptions are no different from their Pakistani brethren. Surely India's greatness today is mainly b'coz of its Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists, Parsis, Bahai, with the exception of a mere handful of Muslim gems.
While most Non-Muslim Indians see Pakistan as a sworn enemy most Indian Muslim see Pakistan as a brotherly nation. This has a lot to do with the often violent Hindu (again I must say Non-Muslim), and large scale destruction of temples, churches, Gurudwaras etc. that one can see even today.
On every issue confronting India (both internally & externally) Non-Muslims and Muslims are on either end of the spectrum. For example while most non-Muslim Indians consider the Kashmir issue as a Jihadist problem (propped from across the border), Muslims consider that as a fight against Indian oppression. Likewise while most Indian Muslims RABIDLY hate America and Israel (again, Mr. Zakaria included!), most non-Hindus consider both as our natural ally. The list goes on.
So, there are always two Indian voices – the majority Non-Muslim voice and the minority Muslim voice. I must say that often times successive stupid Indian govts. succumb to the later due to vote politics and the excessive Hindu consideration of political correctness, just as Great American and the Jewish people do. Unless that changes even when Muslim numbers are miniscule (as in the US with about 2-3%), their problem potential remains extraordinarily high.
Please also see my resp. with the date/time stamp: May 3, 2011 at 12:10 pm above.
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Seems like OBL was in some sort of protective custody. The Pakistan government is different than anything we could comprehend.
@Recheck facts:
A Pakistani IT consultant tweeted from home at 1:00 am on that night, just as the firefight was raging in the Abaattobad compound.
He tweeted: " BIN LADEIN IS DEAD, I DIDN'T KILL HIM, PLZ. LET ME SLEEP NOW" !!!!!!!!!!
My question to him was "HOW ON EARTH DID U KNOW THAT IT WAS BIN LADEN??????????????????????????????
Can someone clarify that to me!
Refer CNN story on the above:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/social.media/05/02/osama.twitter.reports/index.html?hpt=T2
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Amit,
Read the full news. That Tweet came many hours later (even after the official announcement) than his first Tweet.
Sensible: My apologies. It looks like that tweet was done after the media announced his death. Sorry about that!
LIFE AFTER OBL
Thanks God Osama Bin Laden (OBL) is at last killed in this snap Commando Operation carried out by the highly trained 24 U.S. Naval SEAL Commandoes in serene suburbs of Abbotabad on last Sunday during dead of the night. It helped to ‘kill’ an inventive terrorist character; but certainly it’s another very important turning point after 9/11 which will decide course of time.
World’s most wanted fugitive terrorist OBL lived an ignominious life of his own; continuously promoting hatred, terrorism and bigotry against the Americans and their policies vis-à-vis Saudis and Muslims. His philosophy of political Islam developed fanaticism and encouraged use of terror as a potent tool to get objectives. He surely can’t be a friend of Pakistan, Muslims or Islam. Certainly and surely, his actions brought destructions in Sudan, Afghanistan and then in Pakistan. Hopefully, now we Pakistanis can live a peaceful life but the USA should also take care of his other illegitimate minions like TTP who are killing the innocent.
OBL preached hate which brought bad name for Islam and due to his follies today a portion of West is against Muslims and Islam. OBL was never a symbol of Islam or Muslims; he only encouraged and sinisterly helped West and the USA to attack Muslims. To conclude OBL and Al-Qaida philosophy in a nutshell, put in more damage to Muslims and portray a nebulous and weird image of Islam which frightens the non-Muslims. May God save us from more symbols of hatred like this stupid OBL.
We need liberals and seculars and not savage fundamentalists like OBL. OBL was enemy of Islam and Pakistan and U.S. President Obama deserves kudos from Pakistanis.
Moreover, Pakistanis should first spurn terrorism and study modern history and international relations to be able to judge domestic enemies like the OBL.
Pakistan is a nuclear-armed failed state run for the exclusive benefit of a few wealthy families and senior military leaders. In the 60 some years Pakistan has existed it has lose half it's territory in a civil war while clinging to delusions of regional power by it's actions in Afghanistan and Kashmir. It has lost wars to India and China. It's major export is terrorism and it's primary source of income is international aid, as the rich and powerful don't pay taxes. Their greatest fear is being consigned to the dust bin of history as the U.S. withdraws from the region and China and India dominate the region. After ten years of denying any knowledge of Bin Laden or declaring him dead, Pakistan now finds its military and government proven to be either totally incompetent, grossly dishonest, or both. The last act in this sad story will be the removal of their nuclear weapons by the UN, hopefully before the use of those same weapons by one of the terrorist groups they harbor.
Pakistan is guilty period and if you think they are not your less than intelligent. We need to march in there and take away the ability to use or posses nuclear weapons and cut the 4 billion a year in aid. Pakistan is a terrorist state!
The solution is simple. Threaten to remove all aid from Pakistan unless the unconditionally allow the US military to deal with the tribal areas. If Pakistan refuses divert all that aid to India. That should get their attention.
It would be quite surprising if both Pakistan and the US didn't know about Osama's location since he was moved to the compound years ago, and have simply just been waiting for the right time to take him out. I don't think that either government is really that inept to not know who was there and not check it out. Now that it is time to withdraw most troops from the Middle East and improve the approval ratings prior to the next campaign kick-off, the timing of "finishing the hunt" was now.
It might be hard to believe, but seeing the obvious is not always easy. We frequently lock in on expectations and dismiss any clue that challenge our expectations. Sure there was someone in Pakistan helping OBL out. It is way too early to assume an official conspiracy. Hiding in plain site can be a very effective strategy, especially if you keep a low profile. It appears that OBL did just that. He didn't have a huge security presence in the compound and only a few people occupied the place.
A fella and his wife kept a little girl in their back yard for years, and even with frequent official visits by probation and law enforcement no one found her. They never expected her to be there so they never looked. Could be the same here.
Let's give it time to sort out.
Can we sue the Paki for double taking and hiding world's criminals to get our money back?
Sure.. I recommend sticking legal letters from the US govt to a nuclear missiles, pointing them towards Islamabad, Karachi, Peshawar etc and lighting the fuse.
IS IT TRUE THE GUY IS DEAD?IF SOWHY DIDNT AMERICA SHOW US THE BODY?CAN WE TRUST THEM
Don't need proof when the whole muslim world is in mourning state... what else do you need as proof :p
With a "friend" like Pakistan, who needs enemies?
Fareed,
As always, I enjoy your insightful commentary. When you say George W. Bush focused on the wrong state in Iraq, I think that this position needs to be explored further. Did the Bush administration go after Iraq under questionable intelligence and pretenses - yes, absolutely. But the fact is that following 9/11, the leader of Iraq essentially gave the United States the middle finger, thus proclaiming himself as a potential sympathizer with an enemy of our nation. Wrong intelligence or not, any reasonable person could have a legitimate fear that even if he was not at that time a friend of Al-Qaeda, Hussein portrayed himself as someone likely to join in some manner the fight against a common enemy, and a potential friend and safe harbor for Al-Qaeda. Your conclusion here is logically flawed. What if Bush had targeted Pakistan instead? Would he have selected the "right" target? No, more likely he would have been "wrong" there too, as Bin Laden would have adjusted his game plan according to the moves of his opponent and sought refuge somewhere else - like maybe Saddam's backyard.
*******************************************************************************************************************************
"Love is Life, Hatred is Death." "They alone live, who live for others."
“We are responsible for what we are, and whatever we wish ourselves to be, we have the power to make ourselves. If what we are now has been the result of our own past actions, it certainly follows that whatever we wish to be in future can be produced by our present actions; so we have to know how to act.”
"All love is expansion, all selfishness is contraction. Love is therefore the only law of life. He who loves lives, he who is selfish is dying. Therefore love for love's sake, because it is law of life, just as you breathe to live.
"We are what our thoughts have made us; so take care about what you think. Words are secondary. Thoughts live; they travel far. "
**********************************************************************************************************************
I am imagining a fortress such as bin Laden's with 18 foot walls topped with barbed wire being built within a mile of any U.S. military facility, like West Point or Camp Pendleton, or Ft. Leonard Wood. What I can't imagine is that the Pakistan government did not know what the exact purpose of such a facility was. I'm sure the computer data seized will reveal complicity, not sure this information will be shared with the American public.
Mr. Zakaria, do you believe that bin Laden was actually killed Sunday, or do you believe that he has been dead for years, as is widely rumoured? The constant rumours along with the quick "disposal" of the body... lead many people to wonder if the tales of his demise in Tora Bora in 2002 are true. I didn't want a spectacle made of his death, but would like to have seen better evidence that he was indeed "just" killed.
You get what you pay for...West need to pay more money to get faster results from Pakistan. Stop being cheap and Pakistan should deliver all the wanted...lols
americans you are really stupid !! no video evidence !! no photos of him been dead ! ...i saw a photos tht was completely photoshoped and its really stupid to say tht he was killed in pakistan yesterday! no one believes hes dead ! ...its all lies obamas elections are coming ! he was lossing support oof iraq n afghanistan war ! drone attacks on pakistan ....attack on libya! wat the hell srsly ......so they just made it up! stupid liers !
funny thing its coming from zakaria he is from pagan worshipping country india who has been slaughtering innocent kashimris and raping kashimir iwoman for years dot head pagan worshipper not suprised....i personally do not think u can cross into a country that has nuclear weapons without prior warning if that was the case india would have attacked pakistan every chance it got....the fact is that we need to stop talkin all the crap and just attack pakistan , iran n korea why arent we attacking them??????????why are we going against countries that has no military or army why arent we attacking north korea ??????? why arent we attacking iran???????? the reason why u,s is in 14trillion dollar debt is cause of out stupidity how many countries do u see china involved in americans are suffereing why we are dropping bombs that cost millions of dollars each .. god didnt make human beings to fight with each other he made us to love each otherrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.... like i said i just think we need to stop talking crap and attack pakistan i mean in iraq we lost 5k u.s soldiers iraq country with no army... will be interesting to see what type of causlaties we ar gonna get going against a country with nuclear weapon
Pakistanis are very much a part of this terrorism. Pakistanis have always encouraged terrorism and always attacked India but US didn't care as it was its allay. When you start terrorism on some basis it never stops
yes my friend exactly u said u must be an indian and see we are same kind likewise doing in Kashmir and Assam mean also terrorist nation
As for Kashmir , take this
The right of India over Kashmir does not stretch back up-to only Partition.Kashmir has been a part and parcel of our social fabric,culture and our scriptures talk about it time immemorial which also stem from religion. Our claim over Kashmir is grounded in facts and India's right over it cannot be denied.
JUST SO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE UNDERSTAND -THE MONEY DIFFEREANCE AND WHY ITS SO OBVIOUS THAT THIS "MANSION, STOOD OUT "-LOOK AT THE WAGES OF INDIA – THEY HAVE PEOPLE WORK 24/7 JUST TO MAKE $60.00 U.S DOLLARS -THAT MEANS YOUR AVG LOW INCOME PERSON MAKES ABOUT $2.50 U.S DOLLARS A DAY AFTER TEN SOLID HOURS OR MORE OF BACK BREAKING WORK – AND PEOPLE DIE FROM MALNUTRITION RELATED DISEASES CAUSE THEY CAN AFFORD FOOD ALL THE TIME AND THE OLD PEOPLE DIE OF PNUMONIA WHEN IT GETS COLD BECAUSE OF LACE OF WARM CLOTHES AND SHELTERS – EVEN IN THE MOST LUCRATIVE PARTS OF INDIA THE TOP WAGES ARE $600.00 TO $700.00 U.S. DOLLARS A MONTH . SO I FIGURE PAKISTAN IS NO BETTER . SO
LETS SAY THIS NEIBHOR MOVES IN AND BUILDS A HOME WORTH 1 MILLION U.S DOLLARS PLUS –YEP IM SUPPRISED HE DIDNT HAVE BEGGARS LINING HIS DRIVEWAY EVERY MORNING -OR LITTLE KIDS BEGGING BREAD OR CHANGE OR PEOPLE STANDING OUTSIDE HIS HOME 24/7 TRYING TO GET HIM TO BY GOODS OR SERVICES . I FIND IT VERRY STRANGE THAT THERE WAS NO HUSTLEING GOING ON ARROUND HIS MANSION – HELL IF YOUR A TOURIST OR YOU SMELL LIKE YOU GOT MONEY – PEOPLE COME OUT OF THE WOOD WORK TO BORROW – OR GET YOU TO BUY OR GIVE OR THEY ROB YOU –SO YEP – SOMETHING STRANGE ABOUT THE LACK OF PEOPLE ARROUND A RICH PERSONS HOME IN THAT COUNTRY -NO BIG FANCY PARTYS – NO PHONE LINES -NO MAIL COMMING IN – NO UPS NO DHL NO BILLS . ??????NO ESCORTS NO HOOKERS -NO LIMOS"S YEP SOMETHING VERRY WRONG WITH THIS RICH GUY – NO QUESTION SOME PEOPLE KNEW HE WAS THERE . TO BAD A BEGGAR DIDNT – CALL IN THE TIP HE WOULD HAVE BBEN A MILLIONAIRE AND WOULD BENN ABLE TO BUY BIB LADENS HOME – FOR A MILLION OUT OF THE $25.MILLION REWARD OFFERED .:} ....
Dear PROUD Pakistani friend Money Difference:
Check out my resp. below with date/time stamp: May 3, 2011 at 1:47 pm
To all of Pakistani and Mr.Fareed Zakaria fans here who are convinced that he is all fair & balanced, or that Pakistan is a victim of propaganda – I SIMPLY HAVE NO ARGUMENTS WITH THEM IF THEY CAN'T SEE THE WRITING ON THE WALL!
And, I respect those people's views ONLY when they can prove that I & other readers (who think otherwise) are all wrong (THE WAY I HAVE WITH SCORES OF LINKS etc.) with logic & research. I have no regard for people with one liners as answers.
To those of you who have done theirr research and still feel we are wrong, I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE.
I am also DEEPLY AWARE that there are several people in these columns who conceal their true identities to confuse the discussions. I say this to them......I undertstand the concept of TAQIYYA too well!!!!!! In fact that is what the discussion ia all about!
Amit-Atlanta-USA
SOORY AVG POVERTY WAGE IS $60.00 U.S. DOLLARS A MONTH IN INDIA . PAKISATN ISNT MUCH DIFFERENT SO A MILLION DOLLAR HOME STICKS OUT .
Whatever said and done – We all know that Obama and Mrs. Clinton will handover 10 Billion $ 'aid' to Pakistan. Pakistan will buy weapons from China with whatever cash they get apart from the generous (missiles and F-xx) gifts they received from US. We all know why.
My bad! I missed ISI in the whole mix.Of course ISI will get some chunk of money. They will siphon that 'some money' (100 million$) to train terrorists. Walla! Pakistan is a strong ally of US in war of terror.
US – either you are dumb or blind. Am I wrong? Then you deserve to be nominated for Academy awards.
The guy was in a $1 million compound in the heart of pakistan military. For comparison, it is equivalent to manuel noriega living in a $85 million estate in Annapolis, MD while we were looking for him all over central america. ( US$1 = 85 pakistan currency). You think it wasn't custom-built for him by pakistan military as an honored guest? have you seen the opictures? you could see the compound clearly from the 'west point' of pakistan. no one noticed anything about it? it is simply not possible that they were so ignorant or innocent. it is obvious that they were fully complicit.
I highly recommend you ask the same question of your congressman and ask him/her to have the US government take military action against this rogue state of Pak. I am doing the same.
Pakistan enjoys tremendous leverage with the US and the west.. OBL lives amongst us....... we slit danny pearls throat ( stage managed by musharraf )........ please give us billions of dollars in aid ..... we can turn into mad dogs at the drop of a hat.
Pakistan enjoys tremendous leverage with the chinese: ... you can outsoure your geo political and military strategy againts India for cheap. Heck.. we will do it for free. ( please don't forget to give is nukes...and missiles and...build roads and ...sea ports)
pakistan enjoys temendous leverage with islamists and arabs; We have the only islamic nukes. We have cheap cannon fodder for any islamic cause....please send us some money
Ofcourse Pakistan’s known! It’s policy basically has been to absorb every dollar in aid that the US & the West have given it, allocate a small percentage towards finding terrorists & divert the rest towards building or maintaining a military infrastructure designed to fight India. The paranoia about India is hardcoded in the DNA of Pakistani generals & given that true power in Pakistan has always been concentrated in the hands of the military, it’s quite obvious how the OBL compound went undetected by anyone outside Pakistan for so long. The fact that this compound was close to the military academy was probably by design in order to make it convenient for the military to ensure its safety.
Pakistan helped to keep the "Boogie Man" alive so they could milk us for billions.
It worked until he has a nice hot chunk of lead deposited into his brain.
Cut them off and tell them flat out that we will kill any terrorists that they are hiding and we are not going to ask for permission to do so.
Fareed,
Good analysis. There seems to be several theories floating around. He is dead, He is not, etc. etc.
If one steps back and analyze this with rational, one may come up with their own logic. Where I sit, it seems that it could be a ploy to bring down rough ISI. We all know that ISI runs their own agenda and is not answerable to the PK gov. US and PK gov tried to bring in under civilian control but fell on their faces. Now what would be the other ways to bring it down? Make them look bad in their own back yard.
On the other note, somthing does not sit well with me as far as the situation has been reported inthe media. We say that resident were extra ordinary carefull to the extend that they burn their garbage, had no phone lines, no internet connection etc., but yet they left tons of evidance like computers, hard drives, papers, etc. for US to walk in and take away openly. My guess is we will find tons of evidance (allegedly) linking ISI (even PK military) to OBL and Al-Qaida. These are bigger games than you and I came comprehend. Just my 2 Cents,
abbotabad is
west point and ft. bragg rolled into one.
OBL was a most prized asset of the establishment... the goose that laid golden eggs. .. he is gone... what next .. run bawling into the arms of the chinese..
I told Obama many times that we can't trust the Pakistanis with their opium fields which have brought down the market and prolonging the recession and everything the tea partiers continue to strive for today which is freedom and incorporation of ideas that lead to a better society of confidense bringing prosperity to all Americans home and abroad as well as those fighting for gun rights and of course the pro-lifers are in there doing their part too to help bring ade to those tornado victims that our founding fathers worked so hard to protect.
Drill baby drill
Either Pakistanis are hopelessly incompetent imbeciles, or they are protecting/nurturing terrorists with the US aid. We have given them close to $20 billion since 9/11. My guess is they are smart, sly, and double-crossing. I foresee Pakistani govenment designating fall guys within the cabinet and/or military to take the blame in coming weeks. Otherwise, they will be admitting that their proterrorist stance to be pervasive up to the highest levels within the government. Once the heads of these scapegoats start to roll, the US will look the other way and continue to pretend that we believe them to be our friends. Afterall, the last thing the US needs right now is to publicly declare another nation an enemy of ours, especially when that nation possesses nuclear weapons and its people largely hate us.
This is pathetic that this has turned into politics as usual. I'm happy that BIN LADEN is gone and that justice has been served. Ideologues on both sides will give credit for this to the president who best meets their ideological views regardless of what the facts are. There are some things we as civilians will never know. If you want to give credit to someone, give credit to the Navy Seals who put their lives at risk completing the mission and keep the politics out of it!
Dear Pakistani friend Money Difference:
While Indians do beg (from other Indians) Pakistanis beg from America & the west (after cheating them!)
Here's some info taht will MAKE PAKISTANIS LIKE YOU REALLY PROUD!:
"Necessary as foreign aid may be at this juncture, what the country really needs for the long term is a plan to stand on its own two feet without a BEGGING BOWL IN HAND. Presently, there is no evidence of any such plan……..Editorial in the Dawn 06/21/10
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/editorial/21-economic-dependence-160-sk-03?pageDesign=mobile_detail
"The presidential blame on the Afghan war for the government’s failures does not wash. That only 1.7 million of the 180 millions are income taxpayers, and that it is a known fact that our political classes contribute little or nothing to the national exchequer IRKS THE TAX PAYERS OF THE COUNTRIES FROM WHICH WE BEG AND TAKE.. That the distribution of the nation’s wealth is criminal naturally comes in for bitter and valid criticism. The American taxpayers are angry, as are the British. Writing in The Sunday Times on April 10, Christina Lamb who “has spent almost as much time in Pakistan as in Britain over the past 24 years” is justifiably angry. British Prime Minister David Cameron on his recent visit announced that £650m is to be given for education in Pakistan.
Why, asks Lamb? Why should Britain give money to a country “that has reduced its education budget to 1.5 per cent of GDP while spending several times as much on defence?” Why give to a country steeped, from the very top, in corruption, to a country which through its internal policies is bent on alienating its friends?"
http://www.dawn.com/2011/04/17/no-clear-path-2.html
"Less than 10 per cent of GDP comes from tax revenue – one of the lowest global rates and worse than in much of Africa – Barely one per cent of the population pays tax. In the wake of catastrophic 2010 floods that cost the economy $10 billion, Washington donated hundreds of millions of dollars and demanded that Pakistan’s rich, whose lifestyles outstrip many in the West, step up to the plate. Eunuchs have been appointed tax collectors in Karachi, the financial capital, on the understanding that a visit from the maligned transgender group would embarrass people into paying up. Pakistan’s counter-terror fight generates huge injections of aid from the United States, but at a conference last October, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton could not hide her impatience.“Is it absolutely unacceptable for those with means in Pakistan not to be doing their fair share to help their own people while the taxpayer of Europe, the US and other contributing countries are all chipping in to do our part,” she said. – Story Title “Pakistan tax dodgers put economy in peril”
http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/01/pakistan-tax-dodgers-put-economy-in-peril.html
Let me know if you want to see more!
Amit-Atlanta-USA
All these stories are from Pakistan's own #1 daily – Dawn
BIG QUESTION – who is the owner of the house/land where OBL was hiding ?????
It will become the next "Trump" Tower since president Obama didn't release the death certificate yet.
abbotabad is
l Langley , fort bragg , west point rolled into one. Its the hub of the ISI the military. The karakoram highly passes close by.
Its impossible that the establishment was not protecting OBL. The question is did they give him up willingly or were they preempted and surprised by US actions. The indications are towards the latter.
In my experience, Pakistani government knew the residency and actions of Bin Laden for years. In my country, Pakistani officials are under every criminal attack of Pakistani citizens. They know all about beforehead, they make a profit, they blackmail for worst actions if police knocks their door and not be replacable by Pakistani Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
They behave like that because Bin Laden and Al Qaeda network freely being active in their country so they have been emboldened and attack other countries as well.
Pakistan knew where this @sshole was. Drop a nuke on it.
I am 100% agreed with what Farid Zakaria said. However, I would like to add there is every possibility that Al-Queada have got some sort access to the Nuclear Arsenal of Pakistan. In that case, there is a prominent threat of imminent nuclear attack on US soil or on its allies or on its facilities around the world. US now should tactically shift its concentration from Afghanistan to Pakistan and enter Pakistan to have control all governmental tools.
AJ:
You said; I think to your point of doubling down on jihad – The one thing we can say for sure is that it does not have a significant impact on economy. A jihad and terrorism cause in this day and age a minor blip on markets. This has been true in the United States and this was true after the Mumbai attacks."
I respectfully disagree – 9/11 caused huge damage, what if those Islamic fanatics explode a nuclear bomb. CIA & FBI know only too well that is ONLY WAITING TO HAPPEN!
PLEASE PLEASE CHECK OUT THIS GREATEST EVER VIDEOS:
ISI – SECRET GOVERNMENT PAKISTAN
COUNTDOWN TO ZERO a 2 hr. documentary broadcast by History Channel recently.- all about NUCLEAR ARMS IN TERRORIST HANDS!
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Brilliant posts!
Every time I define the level of stupidity of public in this country, they proved me wrong with great margins. Can't believe they really bought this story too!! After spending 10 years in war and trillions of dollars Obama dump all the prove of OBL's even existence in the depths of Sea!! HOW CONVENIENT!!
The only way for Obama to get re-elected was to deliver something, anything he promised! On the other hand he needed some excuse to pull the plug on the war that cost trillions in dollars and thousands of lives (only talking about US lives here, since only these super human lives worth mentioning the rest are collaterals not HUMANs).
So this small 40 minutes of well synchronized show helped Obama kill several birds with one stone, it gives this Soar Loser Govt a chance to come back to the office next election, get his tail out of heavy mountains of Afghan and Iraq and stop its payments to Pakistan to handing over poor tribal folks labeled as Talibans pay a hefty price of Head otherwise useless for anyone.
The first official Govt issued pictures of OBL dead body was very conveniently removed what it turns out to be a photoshop creation of OBL 1998 pic and a wounded face with half opened left eye takes from Middle East Online newspaper published on 29 April, 2009.
A humble request to Obama Govt, “ Please Hire Some Good Quality PhotoShop Professionals Next Time”
To put things into perspective, imagine tryng to build a compound that size and expensive in the US. No one is going to convince me that in a country so driven by corruption, no one knocked on the door and demanded some money. I don't care where it was built. Someone was going to see the compound as a sign of money and/or power and they were going to try and get a piece of it. They knew.
don't see Fareed as Muslim agent in American Media but I do have reservations to some of his observations.
Like his report on Mumbai attack – He concluded it saying povety and no or less education is the main reason for such attacks meaning, terror groups recruit poor people and train them against India, USA or UK .
But people caught involved on such acts or failed acts had formal education and were from wealthy family like the person involved in recent failed Times square attack and for that matter people involved in 9/11 and also main culprit OBL whose father had built 70-80 % roads in Saudi .
I do agree His Fareed's views on Israil are bit harsh and are normally against it .
Regadring Pakistan,
The govt does not have most things in it's control so cant's expect much from it at this moment.
It's time they realise Independance they got is because of Gandhi not just due to effort from Jinnah efforts infact Jinnah wanted secular state once he realised dream of creating Pakistan. So it's good to adopt few non- violent and democratic ways to improve the county .
Pakistan do has good fertile land good people but not enough good people who can take country on board ,face the truth and think beyond religion.
YET ANOTHER GREATEST MUST WATCH VIDEO.
PAKISTAN ON THE BRINK – 45 MIin. DOCUMENTARY
" gousa" well i smell some indian in you it's not your fault your kind of people are the reason for the huge mess between india and pakistan ,and response to you about parking lot let me tell you this son b4r that happen you and the world will see i.2billion people grave yard if you know where i am coming from, and by the way change your name and be proud of being smelly indian and little advise change your name to hunuman.
This is a sentence from an article posted on CNN.com. PLEASE CORRECT THIS! The elite Navy SEAL team who got Obama bin Laden are soldiers with years of sensitive mission experience. The Navy SEALS live by one rule above all: keep what you do quiet. FULL STORY
It is becoming an embarrassment of professional journalism that you keep writing the name wrong! Do you have any idea how many people you are ticking off because you cannot get the right name down??? It is NOT oBama... it is oSama! Try to get a better spell check before posting your articles! You are supposed to be a PREMIERE news website for the world! Come on!!!
Very good article! Now the United States should stop giving Pakistan any more millions of dollars. These dollars were totally wasted! The fox was in the henhouse! Pakistan could not be trusted. Why do we have to remain in Afganistan? Look at all the money we could bring back to erase our national debt. At least we could significantly reduce the costs to both of these countries. The United States gives too much charity for the trouble we are in economically. Charity begins at home!
Pakistanis are notorious and globally known as cheats in the sporting community. It would not surprise me at all if their government also played dirty. But I think that is a bold statement in itself. Who are we to judge on what information we do not have. Hopefully time will bring with it truth in what they did know, (if anything).
Why is it that Pakistani ISI were able to track, detect, and capture Umar Patek – one of the most wanted Al Qaeda affiliates – in Abbottabad, but unable or unwilling, as it were, to do so with bin Laden??
Patek was a senior figure in Al Qaeda, operating in Indonesia and S.E. Asia (as part of Jeemah Islamiah) and had a role in the Bali bombing, among other terrorist acts. He is a well known to intelligence agencies. Patek trained as an original Mujahideen with bin Laden in Afghanistan, and is thus well known to Pakistani ISI (and the US).
Reportedly, Patek was captured in Abbottabad on January 25, 2011 but was announced in the public domain on March 29, 2011 (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/ME04Df01.html). Patek’s capture was also reported in other S.E. Asian news outlets (http://www.smh.com.au/world/indonesia-braces-for-payback-on-westerners-20110502-1e554.html).
Patek was staying in Abbottabad at an Al Qaeda facilitator’s parent’s home. The facilitator was reportedly under surveillance by ISI with support of the CIA, and it has been reported that the CIA had bin Laden’s courier under surveillance (perhaps without ISI’s assistance?). Through triangulation, then, the facilitator might have provided the confirming intelligence on bin Laden’s location if the facilitator and courier were connected.
This would all suggest that ISI cooperated with the US, but perhaps by compulsion as a result of an incontrovertible link between the courier and Patek’s facilitator? Or the ISI were truly unaware. Or maybe they were aware and were continuing to collect intelligence and unearth networks, but why wait to nab bin Laden?
In either case, it is very difficult to believe that Pakistani officials in the ISI or Military (at some level) were unaware of bin Laden’s presence in their country. If they are sophisticated enough to intercept Patek, then why not bin Landen? Notwithstanding ISI’s help at times, the fact that the US did not choose to inform Pakistan of its action is strong proof that elements in that government and its agencies could not be fully trusted.
I agree with Fareed that all of this seems to suggest that terrorist networks need state support (or support from elements within the state). This rightfully puts Pakistan in an uncomfortable position, and it also puts the US in an awkward position because the Congress will expect answers given its consent on foreign aid to Pakistan. However, Pakistan is a ‘partner’ and is of strategic import given its nuclear weapons program, and its relationship and level of cooperation with China.
It should alarm policymakers that most of the Al Qaeda leadership have been captured in Pakistan, and that if the Pakistani government cannot keep track of the terrorists in their country, are they able to properly safeguard their nuclear weapons arsenal or able to prevent proliferation of such equipment and knowledge?
Not to hit upon a tangent, but it seems to me that Pakistan uses the "evil specter of India" in the same manner that Muammar tried (rather poorly) to use Al Qaeda. It's the same way the dictators of the Middle East use Israel. It's all a deflection from their own shortcomings and failures, nothing more.
Which is precisely 'why' we should never give a dime to Israel.
Pakistan knew, and Cheney too! Pakistan knew, and Cheney too! Pakistan knew, and Cheney too! Pakistan knew, and Cheney too! Pakistan knew, and Cheney too! Pakistan knew, and Cheney too! Pakistan knew, and Cheney too! Pakistan knew, and Cheney too! Pakistan knew, and Cheney too! Pakistan knew, and Cheney too! Pakistan knew, and Cheney too! Pakistan knew, and Cheney too! Pakistan knew, and Cheney too! Pakistan knew, and Cheney too! Pakistan knew, and Cheney too!
You can't convince any thinking human being that this 'compound' just dropped into the middle of a town that has Pakistan's big military training site, but that they 'didn't bother' to check who was living there... Eighteen foot high walls topped with barbed wire... and NO PHONE LINES or INTERNET... and the Pakistani government wasn't the least bit SUSPICIOUS??? Go further... all of George W Bush's former administration buddies are thanking HIM for the intelligence that eventually caughte up with Bin Laden... are THEY KIDDING??? This complex was BUILT under BUSH/MUSHARRAF... we should STOP giving ANY MONEY to Pakistan... because they were paid while IGNORING the FACT that our ARCH ENEMY was living under their PROTECTION!!!
I agree. Dirty Dick and Beleaguered Bush knew. But they preferred to line their pockets with Blackwater contracts, et al.
I bet that captured laptop has email from Dick Cheney in it.
Pakistan is a nuclear state run by some faction of army and politicians having sympathy for deadly terrorists. Al Queda will not be able to support and sustain itself without help from such corrupt individuals, who has their personal agenda above pakistan's interest. All I worry about is an inside coup by some lunatic senior being successful in stealing a nuke or, even worse, selling it in black market. WE MUST WATCH PAKISTAN AND ITS NUKE VERY CAREFULLY FOR OUR AND INTERNATIONAL INTEREST.
Pakistan has played a double game, things will never be the same. They took our money and our aid, they made us promises in order to get paid. But now we see them for what they are, their day of reckoning will not be far. They created a monster but lost control, when we pull our aid their heads will roll.
One would think that somebody would have reported Bin Laden in order to get the 25M reward. Surely the payoff would have been secret so no Fatwa would have been issued against the squealer. Makes me think the Pakistanis are as fanatical as Bin Laden if nobody would report him for money; however, maybe nobody knew he was there, I don't know all my neighbors.
The world is eagerly waiting for the next cache of WIKILEAKS docs. – PAKISTANI ISI (meaning Pakistani military, ISI, and the Pakistan people!!!) ROLE IN PROTECTING BIN LADEN & SHELTERING HIM AS THEIR HONORED GUEST!!!
Nothing about the residence, its amenities or lack thereof, its location near the Capitol...none of this is unusual. Including the paragraph about "State support."
In the U.S., politicians, underworld figures, athletes, celebrities and local town ego-fueled, big-mouths that have cash to throw around ALL get preferential treatment. And when journalists start snooping, they are kept out of the public eye and kept out of prison by their paid off cronies. Oh, sure a few go to jail as 'token' game pieces. And yet those in prison find ample ways to circumvent the system and conduct outside business, while within the confines of the cellblock.
And just like "life imitates art," one of the cronies (Bush) tried to finger someone else (Iraq), to protect other thieves.
Way to Go America.... well done... Excellent job.
But the thing which irks me is that US can go and strike deep within a sovereign country without even informing the govt because it can't trust the govt which it calls its ally, but at the same time prevents India to do surgical strikes on Terrorist Camps in Muzaffarabad(POK).... Anyway whatever happened, it was great... congrats to America and all the peace lover people in this worlds... Jihadis who are missing Laden... just blow yourself up and join your OBL in the hell..
Funny last year one Hindi movie was released.. Tere Bin Laden... A humor on catching Laden in Pakistan.... haha...
They did inform Pakistan, about a minute beforehand.
Interview of the neighbors..."They were quiet, mostly kept to themselves".. Isn't that what the neighbors always say when a mass murderer is found..(I put in the quotes, as what usually the neighbors say)...HAHAHA
Pakistan leaders are lairs just like everyone else in the Middle East.
All of them are sick!
No, he was hiding IN a lair. Get it right.
Let's celebrate
Wow, do you suppose the US government is just now finding out that Pakistan isn't reliable? Come on, they've been stringing them along for years. You wouldn't know this at all except getting OBL was worth letting the cat out of the bag. All these excited people who want to warn the president that Pakistan might be up to something are hilarious!
Mr. Zakaria says "In the Pakistani case, I am left with the conclusion that there was some level of state support for al Qaeda. IT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS"
IF THAT INDEED WAS TRUE.................
Then Mr. Obama would have told President Zardari, Gen.Kayani at a min. at least hours before the action if not sooner (knowing that it would be almost midnight when US helicopters would be flying into Pakistani territory). It is said that the helicopters were armed and ready to shoot down any Pakistani plane if attacked.
So, by all accounts the US never informed ANYBODY in Pak until our brave Navy Seals had left the Pakistani airspace with OBL's body.
Also, if the US TRULY CONSIDERED PAKISTAN AS OUR FRIEND WHY WOULD WE HAVE BLOWN UP OUR GROUNDED HELICOPTER.
Likewise, I also aksed a question about the Pakistani tweeter from Abbattobad who heard the firefight and said "BIN LADE IS DEAD, I DID NOT KILL HIM, PLZ. LET ME SLEEP". How on earth did THE GUY, an IT Consultant KNOW IT WAS BIN LADEN WHO LIVED THERE?
Can Mr. Zakaria (or his supporters who believe in his words as GOSPEL!) explain???????????
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Layla. If you nuke us we'll nuke you back.
Don't worry, we're not all crazy over here.
Yes I know that, all nuclear armed country have their "let's nuke em" crazies, but fortunately mutually Assured destruction means their desires will never be met.
Wake up people the Bilderburg Group are pull strings to this side show, most of these sensationalized stories are more to pull the strings of the masses toward a larger agenda moving in the background. The U.S. needed an excuse to put itself into the middle east and OBL was just the CIA puppet we needed to do this. Remember WE trained him, WE armed him, WE set this ball rolling. The only enemy that will potentially show it's head are the ones leading the world in plain sight, only the masses are too blinded by this crap to pay attention to them.
Just remember....I love Big Brother....WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH!!
Carry on Proles.
Stop telling me to wake up, moron. I'm not asleep.
@ Amit stop obsessing over pakistan and worry about the 43% of the population of India which lives on less than $1.25 a day (which is almost double the percentage in Pakistan if you're wondering).
Oh and don't forget to drink your Gau Jal, Rat Milk and dirty excrement infested ganga water.
In the meantime I'll have a Pakola.
The war in Afghanistan would be over if all Afghan girls could be like Dua Qureshi (this girl):
It seems the USA was being treated like a cheap whore.
'Screwed' by Pakistan for millions/billions in OUR cash while THEY knowingly hid Osama.
We need to cut their aid off forever.
I don't understand why it's hard for people to imagine that Osama was living in Pakistan. I bet there's a lot of people living under-the-radar in lots of small towns in our own country even. You could build a home in Utah, rural Illinois, Louisiana, Northern Michigan–practically anywhere–and your grandfather could move in in the middle of the night and people wouldn't think much of it or even know he was there.
Let's look to history to see what Pakistan did similarly in the past.
1) Timeline: Under Sharif, Kargil War;
Episode: Discovery of intruders beyond line of control in Indian occupied Kashmir;
Official response: Govt vehemently denied involvement, to the point that they refused to take their slain soldiers back;
Followup: Honored two soldiers with Pakistan's highest military award.
2) Timeline: Under Musharraf;
Episode: Abdul Qadeer Khan, Pakistan's nuclear architect, caught proliferating nuclear secrets to Libya, Iran, Iraq and
North Korea, traveling on govt aircraft with senor govt personnel
Govt response: Vehement denial of knowledge and involvement
3) Timeline: Under Zardari, Mumbai carnage in 2008;
Episode: After lone surviving terrorist, Ajmal Kasab, sings like a canary and implicates Pakistan's ISI, and reveals his
village of origin, his training camp, etc, his father identifies him on TV.
Govt response: Frenzied denial while simultaneously cordoning off his village to prevent fact-checking. Pakistan's progressive newspaper, Dawn, reveals Ajmal Kasab's nationality as Pakistani, contrary to the govt claims that he wasn't one of theirs. Whereupon, the govt feigns ignorance.
3 similar episodes... plus this one with Bin Laden... the same response every time.. deny first, then feign ignorance, while withdrawing hand from the cookie jar. Fool me once, shame on you.... fool me twice, thrice and four times...
I can't believe it Bin Laden is finally gone!!!
HEYYYYY
Thank God Osama is dead. I hope it brings end to the enduring pain Muslims and non Muslims faced in 10 years. Muslims are as much as victims of extremism as Innocent victims of 911 and war on terror. If you look around, Muslims suffered the most in their daily life because of the extremists.
Then why did they worship bin laden? Why did Osama suddenly become the most popular name for newborn boys in Pakistan after 9/11 and has been for last 10 years? The only country to have that happen, by the way!
Bobby your facts are not correct. Media doesn't always tell the correct story you know. By the wat!!!
so why the muslims are not celebrating the death of OBL .. why guys are mourning .. doesn't that say something
UBL had to die. That is obvious. But it is more symbolic than anything else. To defeat a terrorist organization – you must kill its soldiers. That we have been doing for the last 10 years.
Much like Hitler's death having nothing to do with the fate of Germany, they were defeated already. FDR's death had nothing to do with the status of the US in fighting either.
I think this success has not translated into any great "bump" for the administration, because most people are infinitely aware that we are losing in Afghanistan. We also have done one of the worst atrocities, a kill team murdering hundreds of innocent Afghan civilians and the Obama administrations (as well as most of the media) is covering it up. THe only ones they are prosecuting are the small fries.
Gousa, you have such bright comments about a religion a state and it's people!!! Then how do you expect something different from it .How can the answer to a grenade be a rose?Pakistan has nonmuslim alies like China malaysia etc who get commitment,sincerity and roses only because they offer the same.
hello truth is actually chassidy
Just imagine IF someone had assassinated a Christian spiritual leader in this country whose followers were committing crimes in another country under the auspiciousness of Christianity. How would Americans feel? just curious.
@chris, Pakistan being a victim of terrorism is similar to saying 'suicide bomber' is victim of terrorism
Amen, bro!
or you can say .. pakistan is victim of there own terrorists
I knew all this time that Bin Laden wasn't in a cave. He's not that stupid. He's actually very smart. Terrorists are smart. Actually, arabs are smart...actually, people from the EASTERN hemisphere are very smart. I have been saying all this time that Bin Laden was probably in some mansion enjoying the everyday high life, while Americans were wasting million dollar bombs bombing caves...bc that's how SMART Americans are.
majority of the people in all over the world is not going to believe in american """"fake operation"""" ... better luck next time
))))))
why dont american show photo's of OBL's dead body ?
why did they buried him at sea ?
and lot of other questions which are in every rational person ......
White House spokesperson Jay Carney said Tuesday that–contrary to earlier officials' descriptions of a firefight between the Al Qaeda mastermind and U.S. forces–bin Laden didn't have a weapon during the Sunday raid. Bin Laden "was not armed," Carney said at the White House press briefing Tuesday. He was shot and killed after his wife "rushed the U.S. assaulter." You can watch Carney's exchange with the White House press corps in the video above.
Earlier, White House counterterrorism adviser John Brennan, in a press conference Monday, said that bin Laden's wife had been killed after bin Laden used her as a human shield. Officials are now saying that bin Laden's wife was injured (shot in the leg), and it was a separate woman who was killed.
LETS SEE HOW MANY VERSION OF THIS STORY WILL COME OUT!!
Pakistan is the country who played a role of front line state against terrorism ... we lost our people , economy , and peace .....
the pakis are going to complain about us getting him i say take out there one nuke and let india take the country over cut off all aid to them and slam them into the dirt this would get us out of afgan and go where we are really needed pakistian where the terrorists really are .....
Obama did what no other President could or would do, killed that terrorist.
There is something extraordinary about a government that can be on both sides of a war being fought in its own territory.
Pakistanis are liar no. 1, they can lie to any extent and can create any stories. They are getting aid from both USA for so called co-operation and from Saudi Arabia to aid extremism in its soil. What is happening is basically there are many sects in terrorists within Pakistan: 1) Terrorists trained funded by Paki military and ISI to target India 2) Afghan Taliban which Paki used to its advantage to play games in Afghanistan and trade drugs to earn billions and 3) Paki taliban, the terrorists who are targeting pakistan establishments due to various reasons, for separate nation, for so called friendship with USA and also these terrorists want to have Taliban kind of rule in Pak, which establishment don't want. Now Paki is only targetting this 3rd kind of terrorists and those targetting Paki and they have caused casualties in civilians and military and Paki is trying to show world that they are suffering huge loss due to fight against Al Quaeda etc., but on background they are helping Al-Quaeda, taking aid from USA and also Saudi for 2 complete opposite ideologies. They will never target Haqani or taliban, in fact on record it was only Pakistan Govt, which tried till it can after 9/11 to save Taliban and termed it as official Afghan Govt. while whole world termed it as terrorist organization. At end they had to succumb to USA, because they knew that if they try to play game at that time they could have been attacked instead of Afghan, as real culprits were there. So here it looks Paki is playing game, and to some extent even US Govt is playing drama in which they just want to show to their domestic audience that they are having great success by covering truth which is Pak is epicenter of terrorism.
Keep drinking your Gau Jal.
And you can drink pig jal ( pork pisss )
Pakistan is the hotbed of terrorism in this world.
Terror camps in Pakistan target India and the West.Safe havens in Pakistan's north west provinces target the US troops and Afghan forces.The Jihadi groups in Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir train and send militants to fight India,lest we forget the Mumbai attacks.
Unless the US and other countries fighting the war on terror realize that dealing with Pakistan harshly is the only way to solve the Afghan conflict and defeating Al Qaeda,the scourge of terror will perpetually prosper.
What has Pakistan achieved after 61 years,since partition of India?Why separate land for subcontinent's muslims? What is the prognosis here..WHY IS US PLACATING Pakistan?Why should the international community put up with this country..for the fear of its nuclear weapons that it sold to north Korea?
Is the US/international community braindead to squander 10 billion dollars to 'AID' Pakistan and gets channelized against India?
US should have the spunk to tell Pakistan : ENOUGH is ENOUGH.I am not going overboard when I quote analysts telling about a swift operation by India and Israel to hijack Pakistan's nuclear weapons.This has obvious grave risks,but as if we are not threatened by this sickening state day after day by militant and ISI plots.Once successful,even if a war breaks out,this state can be subdued and divided like Balkan states:
1.BALOCHISTAN
2.PAKISTAN OCCUPIED KASSMIR – Merged with India
3.Ethnic Punjabi Pakistani areas – into a small state administered by the UN for 100 years
4.NWFT occupied by US to hound and flush the militants
Riddance from a State which has become a nemesis for a peaceful democratic ,equalitarian world and only secularism will bring prosperity and peace to the subcontinent
@ Rohit ... Dont wory my indian son ! before say any word against Pakistan , always remember Pani Patt battle field ...
just manage your """ Red Corridor """
... Your dirty words cant make any harm to Pakistan .. Pakistan Zinda bad
The war in Afghanistan would be over much sooner if all Afghan girls could be like Dua Qureshi (this girl):
Let me start by saying initially that I dont mean any disrespect to anyone, but with a lot of negative emotions towards Pakistan I feel that I have to comment ( I am an american of pakistani descent). The idea that OBL was living in a major city without the knowledge of the Pakistan Army and ISI is very hard to digest. And yes this incident will definately put the US – Pakistan ties to a test, if not break them. But the relationship between both countries have always been somewhat sour. After the Russians left Afghanistan, Pakistan was abandoned alongwith Afghanistan and had to deal with post war refugee crisis on its own. The refugees not only were a burden on the Paksitani govt but were also involved in drug/narcotic trade. US Support was needed most in the post war era, but it was never offered nor was given. Then Pakistan paid quite a few million dollars for 15 or 16 F-16 jets, which the Senate declined and never refunded the money, and this betrayal of US towards Pakistan has been forever bored in their memory. If the US would have refunded the money or delivered the jets I think it wouldnt have been that bad. Then after 9/11 Pakistan was the front runner for ally and it gladly joined, but because of their past experience of being used and abused by the US the trust that the US needed was never there. So it was a really bad relationship to begin with due to the past experiences. Even Charlie Wilson said that America screwed up the end game. The partnership itself has been heavy on Pakistan just like the US. Several army personnel were killed in the tribal areas including new recruits and graduates. Ever since Pakistan signed up to be an ally, there have been three assassination attempts on Musharraf, several suicide bombings in major cities almost every week, among other incidents.!!! So Pakistanis are paying a price to help , and believe it or not Pakistanis do want an end to this terrorism. The drone attacks in the last couple of years have killed several innocents, children and women alike. These events are enough to ripen the hatred that people had for America. I also believe that these events coupled with the experience of the Soviet-Afghan war led to rogue elements within the government that became sympathetic towards these terrorists, and here the distrust reaches its limit. The Pakistani government believe it or not is dedicated to cleaning out Pakistan of these terrorists.
The reason I have mentioned all this is because as humans, and as civilized people we have to weigh a situation by assessing both sides of the picture. Both Americans and Pakistanis have suffered this horrible sting of terrorism. And now ofcourse one can say, that Pakistanis were given aid, about $20 billion. Which is a really good point, but also bear in mind that Afghanistan was given over $100 billion in aid, Iraq was given almost the same quantity and both of those wars are no where near over. Not to mention the horrible economic condition we are in at the present time. But atleast Pakistan cracked down on the terrorists and helped capture several of them which in return turned a lot of Pakistanis against the government because the citizens thought that this was a crime, muslims killing muslims, which fueled the Taliban against Pakistani government and I am sure all of you might have read about it or seen it on the news.
With this incident I hope things are settled in a constructive way, and yes it will be very difficult to overlook this. After all 70% of Afghanistan is still run by Taliban and america needs an ally that has some mutual understanding, it can be Qatar or Iraq or even India is an option, but arent people mad at India for taking most of the blue colored jobs? And please if you must comment on my thoughts please be civil, and avoid using profanities.
please dont mistake my post for any justification, its merely my thoughts on this complex partnership. i believe this is a good forum if emotions are left out, which a lot of people have failed to do here
Walters:
This has ref. to your post above, Date/Time stamp: May 3, 2011 at 1:07 pm
Your portrayal of the huge contrasts between predominantly Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan is right on the dot! You are right in that you have seen this as a clear distinction of the two countries’ basic divergent Hindu & Muslim heritage. No wonder we see a clear contrasts between Hindu India (I must actually say Non-Muslim India) and Muslim India, b'coz Indian Muslims (incl. Mr. Fareed Zakaria) except for some notable exceptions are no different from their Pakistani brethren.
Surely India's greatness today is mainly b'coz of its Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists, Parsis, Bahai, with the exception of a mere handful of Muslim gems.
While most Non-Muslim Indians see Pakistan as a sworn enemy, most Indian Muslim see Pakistan as a brotherly nation unfairly victimized by India on terror charges, etc. This has a lot to do with the often violent Hindu (Non-Muslim) -Muslim relationship for over 1,000 years, and large scale destruction of temples, churches, Gurudwaras etc. that one can see littered all over India even today.
On every issue confronting India (both internally & externally) Non-Muslims and Muslims are on either end of the spectrum. For example while most non-Muslim Indians consider the Kashmir issue as a Jihadist problem (propped from across the border), Muslims consider that as a fight against Indian oppression. Likewise while most Indian Muslims RABIDLY hate America and Israel (again, Mr. Zakaria included!), most non-Hindus consider both as our natural ally. The list goes on.
So, there are always two Indian voices – the majority Non-Muslim voice and the minority Muslim voice. I must say that often times successive stupid Indian govts. succumb to the later due to vote politics and the excessive Hindu consideration of political correctness, just as Great American and the Jewish people do. The greatest example of this minority opinion ruling the roast is the die-hard support (until recently) for the Palestinian cause. This is especially all the more perplexing given that while we were shedding tears for the plight of the "so-called" Palestinians refugees, nobody cared two hoots about 100's of thousands of Kashmiri Hindus languishing ethnically cleansed by Muslims, and living in their own country in squalid refugee camps.
Unless we set aside political correctness, and stop pandering to these largely unpatriotic minority Muslims, even when their numbers are miniscule (as in the US with about 2-3%, or India with 16%), their problem making potential remains extraordinarily high.
Please also see my resp. with the date/time stamp: May 3, 2011 at 12:10 pm above.
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Agree with Babar.The Indians should grow up now. Its not 1947, its 2011.OBL is dead (thankGod) so lets find ways to make this world safe and hate-free.
you can't forget Mumbai attacks.. that didn't happen in 1947 ...
Fuck you all you are the idiots people of the world we pakistanis are fighting against them and you are blaming us fuck you an america
fuck you america
I am certain you are not Pakistani or Muslim for few reasons.....
1) There are many Indian such as Amit who are willing to do anything to create hate across the board to all "Muslims"
People keep in mind "radical extremist islamist" are the equivalent to the Christian KKK
2) With all the terror watch the USA homeland security monitor these boards and other telecommunication services to ensure security.....me being a muslim...I don't mind.....I just want to be safe. No Pakistani or Muslim will opening post such comment as homeland security can track down evidence.
3) Please keep in mind this is the internent there are frauds from across the world.
With this in mind – this is not posted by a Muslim or a Pakistani.....
It's a Islamaphone promoting hate propaganda.
Dude grab some beer and watch ESPN....you are missing some good games!
fuck you aMERICA
YOU MADE DRONE ATTACKS ON PAKISTANIS AND SAY THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL TERRORISM I WANT TO FUCK YOU ALL
FUCK YOU AMERICA
FUCK YOU AMERICA
FUCK YOU AMERICA
Don't forget how we sent SpongeBob SquarePants cartoons to your cities and made you all drink Coca Cola and listen to Lady GaGa all night, and then bought your sister a Sno-Cone. I think Donald Trump's head-squirrel is offensive to most major religions as well so you might as well hate us for that, too.
I just want to say that one my friends was killed in bomb blast by Taliban.......I am a Pakistani and this happened in Pakistan. So plz, remember that we, the common people of Pakistan and the leaders (Benazir Bhutto is one example) have suffered alot in this war against terror and even after that you are disregarding us....and talking about the aid, let me tell u that pakistan have lost 7 times more money that it have been given by U.S......so plz know the facts before saying anything. We respect American, even though they deceived us in war againt Soviet Union in Afghanistan....remeber U2 flew from our airbase....Russians threatened us and said that they will destroy and we were still fighting against them for American....but still I really respect Americans, as I could criticize American policies but i cannot criticize the people of U.S.
I perfectly understand your point about seperating people and policies. I feel bad for all the many pakistanis who have had to suffer because of the Taliban. However I also feel bad that you are stuck with a Militray and intelligence community that will not democracy flourish and is completely not transparent to its own people. Because of their policies, the common people have to suffer.
US security agencies did not know about the 9/11 terorists, the German policecould not find RAF for years, in a country where you have to report you residence. Why should Pakistan, still a third world country, do any better?
Dear Friend Ashish & TO ALL MY INDIAN FRIENDS:
I can only say this "you are NAIVE like many Hindus are". So, in that sense I really have no issues with you.
Even though today America is my home, as an Indian what pains to see in India today is the HUGE SELF-INDULGENCE, FALSE PRESTIGE while making some big bucks working for US IT Cos., or through other means, while being CALLOUSLY INDIFFERENT & INSENSITIVE to what’s going on with the rest of the Indians or across the borders.
For most RECENTLY affluent Indians their borders remain confined to only US, Europe, Australia, Singapore etc.!
For e.g.: Most Hindu Indians are COMPLETELY IGNORANT of the plight of the Kashmiri Hindus, who have been uprooted from their homes (and 1000’s killed) and are languishing in their own country as refugees, the rapid Islamization of the NE states and even rest of India ( thanks to large scale BD infiltration & ofcourse conversions). The greatest danger facing India due to the attitude of people like them is class warfare.
Having said that, plz. do some fact checks. Thankfully today you don't have to rely on hearsay; a lot of the stuff today is available on the internet, which otherwise would never have been published in countries like India, (& to a lesser extent in US, Europe) all for reasons of excessive political correctness.
Even a vivid reader like me, did discover many facts only months, years back incl. the MUSLIM ROLE IN THE GREATEST GENOCIDE OF ALL TIME…..THE JEWISH HOLOCAUST. While Hitler was no doubt a Christian (an UNCOMFORTABLE one at that, he is on record saying that the SUPERIOR ARYAN RACE was cursed with a tolerant all inclusive religion like Christianity, while they would have been more comfortable being Muslims which the Muslims led by the GRAND MUFTI OF JERUSALEM, and his BOSNIAN MUSLIM REGIMENT exploited to the hilt of BUTCHERING JEWS!!! A fact that was carefully under wraps given the large scale ANTI-SEMITISM that exists even today in the west (especially in Europe) fed & nurtured by their Muslim Diaspora and the rest of their ilk the world over!
As to the past.....just go check almost every single temple in India to see chopped of sculptures etc. (THOSE THAT ARE STILL STANDING, and NOT rebuilt into MEGA Mosques plundering the same material!!)
So, while Muslims surely have been at the receiving end some times (incl. in India), the WORLD-OVER MUSLIM ATROCITIES GREATLY OUT NUMBER both in SCALE & BARBARITY.
You threw out a few names as Muslim role models in India while surely there are a HANDFUL of some TRULY GREAT PATRIOTIC MUSLIM GEMS like Azim Premji, AR Rehman (who BTW was a Hindu until recently), Abdul Kalaam, Salmaan Rushdie, etc. like most other India Muslims we have a ton of pampered, ungrateful Muslims incl. Shah Rukh Khan, Dilip Kumar, Md.Azaruddin, Sania Mirza, MAK Pataudi who want us to love Pakistanis when our people are getting killed by these Islamic fanatics. LOVE E IS NOT A ONE WAY STREET. Hindus (& most importantly JEWS, and also to an extent Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains) have loved their neighbors and HAVE BEEN CHEATED for 14 CENTURIES (since 622 AD to be precise!).
Likewise there are also SEVERAL HIGHLY ENLIGHTENED PAKISTANI MUSLIM GEMS such as Irfan Husain, Nadeem Paracha, I A Rehman, Kamran Shafi, Pervez Hoodbhoy, Asma Noorani, and some non-Muslim Pakistanis (Parsi) like Cyril Almeida, Ardeshir Cowasjee who have been trying to educate NOT only Pakistanis but Muslims all over the world on the NEED TO REFORM. Hope our own ISLAMIC SYMPATHIZER Mr. FAREED ZAKARIA takes a cue out of that!!!
And, here are some GREAT links to start with:
SAURABH KALIA (Indian soldier who was most brutally tortured by Pakistani rangers) – There are scores of such people (if you care to look around!) who gave up their lives fighting for tehir country to let the rest of the Indians wallow in their new found riches!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saurabh_Kalia
MUSLIM ROLE IN THE JEWISH HOLOCAUST:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni
BANGLADESH – the second most heinous GENOCIDE & ETHNIC CLEANSING of the last century. How many Hindu Indians even know that over 70% of THE NEARLY 3 MILLION BANGLADESHIS KILLED WERE HINDUS????? Also, the 100's of thousands of BD Muslims killed, they had to pay that price b'coz they were seen as SUPPORTERS OF BD HINDU INTELLECTUALS and ALSO BEING NOT ISLAMIC ENOUGH FROM the West Pakistani Punjabi Muslim perspective.
"An article in Time magazine dated August 2, 1971, stated "The Hindus, who account for three-fourths of the refugees and a majority of the dead, have borne the brunt of the Muslim military hatred."[4]
http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,878408,00.html
http://www.bangladeshihindu.com/genocide-20-million-bangladeshi-hindus-are-missing/
THIS IS A MUST WATCH VIDEO
BANGLADESH FACEBOOK SITES
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=8633331860&topic=3844
And, here’s what Wikipedia says: (with tons of authenticated links)
The Bangladesh Liberation War resulted in one of the largest genocides of the 20th century. While estimates of the number of casualties were 3,000,000, it is reasonably certain that Hindus bore a disproportionate brunt of the Pakistan Army's onslaught against the Bengali population of what was East Pakistan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_in_Bangladesh#Bangladesh_Liberation_and_1971_Bangladesh_atrocities_.281971.29
Inspite of all these most Bangladeshis hate India (& LOVE PAKISTANIS) as seen from the BRUTAL TORTURE & KILLING OF Indian Border Security Force (BSF) personnel by the Bangladeshi Rifles several years ago. Thanks to the power of the MUSLIM UMMAH.
Check this out:
"WHY BANGLADESH HATES INDIA"
http://www.rediff.com/news/2005/dec/21bspec.htm
I can just go on & on……………..
I have discussed in a most detailed manner in another CNN GPS discussion here which you may want to check if you need further info. (There are 10’s of posts by me there)
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/20/ahmed-rashid-on-negotiating-with-the-taliban/
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Friends:
We are constantly told that most Muslims are moderates and the extremist elements are only a fringe. But, the more we know about them, the less the dividing line becomes. As a Pakistani radio host Fasi Zaka remarked "The silent majority does not want to take out a gun and shoot anyone, but at the same time they're not appalled by it when somebody else does....................The majority are enablers."
So while no doubt even as "so-called" moderates like Mr. Zakaria condemn terror acts loudly, they ALWAYS DILUTE that by adding "IFs" & "BUTS", linking US policies in Iraq, Afghanistan, or Russia's in Chechnya, India's in Kashmir and even ridiculous issues such as the Burqa ban in France, Minaret Ban in Switzerland, Prophet Mohammed Cartoons, Koran Burning by an OBSCURE FL.pastor etc. etc. THAT LIST IS NEVER NEVER NEVER ENDING…………….
So, watch this Imran Khan video again and decide for yourself whether all those Pakistanis who are western/convent educated, who date, dance, may be even consume alcohol, watch Hollywood movies, rave about American life, drive jazzy cars, boast of having large # of Non-Muslim friends etc. etc. are THEY TRULY MODERATES?
The fact is NONE OF THESE CAN ALTER THEIR BASIC DNA which is the perceived injustices against Muslims (all over the world, in line with their Muslim Ummah), supremacy of Islam, monotheism, stealing of Muslim countries' natural resources by the Whiteman, oppression of so-called Palestinians, Kashmiris, Chechyans, etc.etc.etc.
DO YOU STILL CALL THEM MODERATES??????
Watch this Imran Khan PUBLICITY video showcasing his MODERATE CREDENTIALS and let me know if you consider him & his followers TRULY MODERATE.
Also check out this HILARIOUS but very sensible video on how most Muslims respond to questions by Non-Muslims (you will see ample evidence of that in my discussions with some Muslims in these columns also).
Also check out my detailed discussions on the other difference between MODERATES & RADICALS in my post above with date/time stamp: May 3, 2011 at 11:14 am
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Mr. FAREED ZAKARIA (this feedback is for you)
How can Muslims join the mainstream and be TRULY called moderates. They can if they:
a) DE-LINK worldwide Muslim issues to their discontentment at home (that is sensibly apply the concept of Muslim Ummah).
b) LET other Muslims freely convert to other religions of their own free will & NOT threaten them with killing etc., just as Muslims convert others into Islam
c) DISOWN the hateful teachings of the Koran or even remove them altogether, and NOT deny their existence, or show other verses preaching compassion, knowing fully well the Koran Makes those NULL & VOID as applied to Non-Muslims!
d) Let law enforcement monitor their Mosques just as they do with Churches, Temples, Synagogues etc.
e) VOLUNTARILY give up anyone conspiring against the homeland
f) DISOWN accused/convicted Muslims, especially where National Security is involved.
g) NOT demand special treatment that are not given to other religious groups (prayer breaks 5 times a day, separate prayer halls, Halal meat etc.).
h) ADAPT to their homelands and RESPECT those countries dominant ETHOS – Christian in case of the west, Hindu – in case of India, JUST AS THEY ENFORCE in their own Muslim countries. That respect include but NOT limited to celebrating national festivals like CHRISTMAS in schools/offices, Praying in the name of GOD, tolerating greetings with religious overtones e.g. MERRY CHRISTMAS instead of HAPPY HOLIDAYS...etc.etc.
i) NOT enforce their dress codes when it impinges on national security (Burka)
j) Accept COMMON security checks for all Americans (at a/ps etc.) and NOT bring in religion there.
Unless Muslims agree to enforce all these measures (at a min.) they will CONTINUE TO GET THE RESPECT THEY DESERVE!
Will our "so-called" moderate Mr. FAREED ZAKARIA put in efforts to achieve that.......I AM NOT SURE HE's WILLING TO
DO THAT!
As a responsible, well respected, highly educated, articulate, Muslim Mr. Zakaria has the OBLIGATION to his community, and to ALL MAGNANIMOUS TOLERANT AMERICANS to do just that!
Do NOT start off with your usual tirade....there are bad elements in every religion, there are bad things in every holy text etc. As NON-MUSLIMS WE ALL KNOW THAT.........BUT THE FACT REMAINS THAT WE DON'T LIVE BY THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please DON’T try again to HOODWINK Americans (as you always do!) with small, seemingly meaningless steps….AMERICANS WILL NO LONGER BUY THAT!
PROVE ME WRONG Mr. ZAKARIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Mr. Zakaria:
Also, DON’T say like most Muslims that they are law abiding and they don’t need to PROVE their patriotism, peaceful nature to anybody…….that’s a NON-STARTER, b’coz nobody can deny the fact that the ENTIRE AMERICAN MUSLIM COMMUNITY IS UNDER A CLOUD……NOT merely b’coz of the ACTIONS OF A FEW, but even more importantly the DEFEANING SILENCE OF THE VAST MAJORITY (or their never ending ploy to divert discussions!).
Americans are watching to see your reaction!
Amit-Atlanta-USA
As a Hindu and a PROUD AMERICAN I am willing to do just that to safeguard my country and my people!
Can you?
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Mr. Zakaria:
Rather than continuing to preach TOLERANCE, and understanding to ALREADY MAGNANIMOUS Americans will you ask your followers in MUSLIM COUNTRIES to:
a) Let their miniscule harassed minorities to live in dignity & honor
b) Allow them to build Churches, Temples just the way YOU incessantly fight to build even at the hallowed GZ site!
c) Tell them that FREEDOM, DIGNITY, TOLERANCE, SECURITY is NOT a ONE WAY STREET.
If minorities (who have lived in Muslim countries for centuries) can't have that, it's ABSURD for Muslims who migrated to America recently of their own free will to demand those!
Once again, PLZ. DON'T try to HOODWINK & PREACH Americans that we are a great nation, we have religious freedoms etc.(suggesting that that sets us apart from the Muslim countries!) etc. When I and you as recent immigrants from India to this great nation know that, so does Americans Mr.Zakaria. They DON'T NEED TO LEARN THAT FROM YOU & ME!
Americans want YOUR ANSWERS Mr.Zakaria!
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Amit, You are being little too excited and too passionate in picking an individual or a religion. I think we should understand each others capacity and limits, and at the same time try working harder ourselves to nourish and practicing good values ourselves before demanding from others. You should be very very proud of yourself for your great values (am not different than you) and passion for your religion and country. Your story is not unique in any respect, so don't presume that you are alone (when you cite your passion/religion).
Cherish your values and remember where you came from, and also remember "so did Fareed".
I think Fareed has made not just all Indians proud, but also, all those who study hard, and try to learn right things.
How many times you heard him expressing his opinions without citing facts or providing some rational basis. Very few instances, isn't it? When he try to provide blunt opinions (only when he thinks very strongly about some things), he uses caution. Most times, he sounds like a rational thinker and often provide very intelligent arguments. Weeks after weeks, great personalities come to his show...and leave impressed of his talent and the knowledge he brings in.
How may TV host shows have that depth and capacity to digest things........rather than going for sound bites, focusing on talking points.....sensationalizing the inteviews.....and so on. Try any show on this topic on any channel. Only few are there e.g., Charlie Rose...even 60 minutes host try to plant sound bytes, use catchy phrases.
I value his thoughts and rational thinking and his un-biased analyses weeks after week. And finally we all are human being first... don't you agree and I may not be very different than you, Amit.
Over the past few days I have been wondering if reports of DISPOSAL OF OSAMA BIN LADEN’s body into the cold depths of the ocean was indeed true!
If that is indeed true we already know why such a thing was done, NOT to provide a shrine for Muslims to pray and re-energize their Jihadist quest.
But, if that was indeed NOT true (which I strongly believe is the case) here are my reasons:
So, while I am no CONSPIRACY THEORIST it really surprising that the govt. did not preserve Osama Bin Laden’s body for further investigation to unravel the entire OBL mystery. At a time when we are able to unravel the mysteries of Egyptian Kings/Queens (King Tut in particular – who died 1000's of years ago) by examining their mummified bodies, I find it hard to believe that OBL's dead body would be of no use to us.
For example, as a layman I can say that there are several questions that could have been answered by closely examining his body, incl.:
a) The oft repeated need for dialysis which would require examining his kidneys – how often he needed it, the eqpt. Required, where it was available in the vicinity, who were rheumatologists in the area/Pakistani military hospitals etc.
b) A rumor that he had suffered a stroke – how that could have physically constrained him, what kind of help was required in his mobility etc.
c) Any evidence of recent surgical procedures and decipher where that could have been performed depending on the complexity.
d) Look for fractures with metal strips attached (Check them for any identification markings) given that OBL was always traversing the mountains.
e) Analyze traces of medicines in his body to see what medications he was on, and may be decipher the source of those medicines.
All these and much much more are within the realms of forensic medicine today. For example in Nuclear forensics the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) can identify the source of Uranium isotopes found in human bodies, dirty bombs or clandestine reactors in Iran, N.Korea etc.
Likewise, after the Pakistanis tested their Nuclear device in 1998, the radioactive air contained only plutonium & NOT Uranium. Given that Pakistan had no Plutonium reprocessing plants, Indian scientists promptly deciphered that it was a ready made bomb gifted to the Pakistanis by their Chinese friends…..a fact that was publicly acknowledged years later even by the US!
Having said that IT WILL BE NO BRAINER if the CIA has indeed kept the body while pretending to have disposed it off. So, even if we indeed see a video/pic. of the body being dumped into the ocean there is less likelihood that it indeed was OBL’s body. There is always the very real possibility that after services by the Muslim Chaplain on OBL’s body, another identically wrapped body was dumped while quietly moving the real OBL body away. Ask the magicians in Vegas and they will tell you how it can be done even with a million onlookers around!
Once again, I am No CONSPIRACY THEORIST, But if I were Obama, or Leon Panetta, or Robert Gates, or Robert Muller I would never ever throw my prize catch after spending trillions of $ and sacrificing 1,000’s of American lives.
I invite sensible comments on whether I am right or wrong.
Someday we may get to know the truth........Thank God we have Wikileaks!
Amit-Atlanta-USA
John Brennan, President Obama's senior counterterrorism, has just praised Pakistan's work in the War on Terror. He noted that Pakistan has captured or killed more terrorists than any other country, and that Pakistanis have died while fighting terror. It was the right and necessary thing to say.
the "Role of Pakistan in war against terrorism" and members will invited to write their views about "Pakistan " like, is Pakistan playing a important and Satisfactory role in War against terrorism ? or need more its contribution.
Historically, terrorism in Pakistan has been frequent prevalent since the 1980s mostly by due to the Soviet Afghan War, and the subsequent proxy war against the communists that continued for at least 10 years. The war brought numerous fighters from all over the world to South Asia in the name of Jihad . These fighters, known as Mujahideen, created mayhem in Pakistan by carrying out terrorist activities inside the country after when war officially ended(1) .later these people “directly contributed to producing extremism, Jihaddi culture, violence, and crime in Pakistan. This trend was a direct result of militancy and sectarian violence, which kept creeping back into Pakistan’s society because of its support of the Afghan Mujahideen”(2) .
Aftermath, after September 11,2001, when United States start the war against terrorism, Pakistan became once again the US key allay ,later than the Soviet Afghan War (1980). Now, Pakistan helping and playing an important role with US to demolish these terrorist and extremist within borders and out side the border.Since beginning of this war, “Pakistan army is actively engaged in tribal areas to defeat al Qaeda and the Taliban. For the first time, Pakistan has deployed 80,000 troops along the border with Afghanistan for control over terrorist activities in this area . (3)
Further more, “Pakistani security forces have captured many al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists, including such top leaders as Khalid Sheikh Muhammad, Abu Zubaydah, and Abu Faraj al-Libbi. The Pakistan Army has killed over 300 terrorists and apprehended approximately 700 terror suspects in the Afghan border region. Civilian law enforcement agencies have conducted more than 194 raids throughout the country, resulting in the apprehension of some 573 terrorists. In these efforts the Pakistani security forces have suffered more casualties than any nation except the United States. More than 300 soldiers have lost their lives and some 600 have been wounded in these operations .(4)
Pakistan specially played a very important role during the Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) .when US attacked on Afghanistan as a beginning of war against terrorism. United States central command statistics demonstrate that “Provision of Air Bases / Airfields, in order to meet the requirement of US/Coalition Forces, Pakistan provided five air bases / airfields. In emergency planes could land anywhere in Pakistan. On the average 0.4 million litres of fuel per day has been provided to US forces as well as all other services on the bases used by them. A total of 57800 sorties have been generated from Pakistan’s air space/soil. Pakistan provided 2/3 of its air space as air corridor to the US/Coalition Forces. Pakistan Navy provided landing facility to the US/Coalition ships at “Pasni(5) ”. At sea, Pakistan Navy operations/training was curtailed in order to accommodate and facilitate the operations of US/Coalition Naval Forces. According to the US Marine Corps Gazette of June 2002, the Coalition Naval Operations at Pasni were the largest amphibious operations in size, duration and depth that the Marine Corps had conducted since the Korean War. In all, 8000 Marines, 330 vehicles and over 1350 tons of equipment/logistic were off loaded at the beach and later flown to Kandhar( city of Afghanistan) from Pasni (City of Pakistan). Report shows, On 25 June 2002, an operation was launched against suspected Al Qaida/Taliban elements in area Azam Warsak (Wana, NWFP, Pakistan). During this operation 2 Al Qaida members were killed, one apprehended whereas 13 security personnel were killed including 2 officers. This shows Pakistan’s resolve to not only “drain the swamp” but also nab the “alligators”. Report also mentioned, Operatio Enduring Freedom adversely affected the already fragile economy of Pakistan. Major losses were caused to the civil aviation, tourism, investment and shipping due to rise in the rates of insurance. Besides this, Pakistani exports also suffered adversely and foreign investments experienced a visible decline. According to a rough estimate, Pakistan’s economy suffered a loss of over US$ 10 billion since October 2001”(6) .
Apart from this, Pakistan paid a big economic and human suffering during this war. Pakistan faced many suicides attacks since 2001, including “two suicide assassination attempts on Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf (14, 25 December, 2003)”(7) , “Prime minister Shaukat Aziz attempted to assassination (on Friday, July 30, 2004)(8)” .On April 28, 2007 assassination attempt on Aftab Ahmad Khan Sherpao, who was the Interior minister of Pakistan and recently “Two-time Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto is assassinated in second suicide attempt on 27 December 2007”(9) .
However, US and its other allies admit many time the importance of Pakistan in this war on terrorism like US President George Bush said “I hereby designate the Islamic Republic of Pakistan as major non-Nato ally of the United States”(10) . On 19 November 2006 when “UK Prime Minister Tony Blair's visited the Pakistan, he indicates how important Pakistan is, not just to the war against the Taleban in Afghanistan, but also to the UK's own efforts to stop British citizens of Pakistani origin from turning to terrorism(11) . Like wise Jack straw mentioned “Pakistan is a key ally in the war against terrorism and plays and important role in the international community more widely(12) .
In my personal opinion as a Pakistan National, I have no doubts about the fact that the Pakistan Army was unaware of OBL's whereabouts in Pakistan.
Pakistan's Army and civil society has suffered and continues to greatly suffer economically, socially and most importantly militarily by engaging in this war on terror. I mention Militarily as most important because the real control of the country lies in the hands of the Army. Therefore, the military will not engage in policies that will weaken its institutional strength.
Moreover, An India centric Militiray policy is not helped by fighting another war against their own people that will reduce the military strength that it aspires to maintain inorder to defend itself against potential threats from its "considered" enemy India. The capture of OBL significantly reduces the continuity of the war on terror and it is in Pakistan's best interest to get this man in order to end the war and prevent the case of deminishing military resouces.
Furthermore, the ideology of OBL is radicalizing the society in Pakistan and it is this extremist element that the progressive people and leadership of pakistan want to defeat. Thus, again OBL protection does not serve this purpose of de-radicalizing the society.
Another wrong impression that the world has is that the Army is engaging in this war to obtain Military Aid. Pakistan till date has spent more money on the War on Terror than what it has recieved from the US and also suffered more civilian and military casualties and its not in their interest to kill its Army and people and spend more money on the war rather than soending on Military Resources, Education and healthcare.
Suicide bombings and drone attacks are also a consequence of engaging in this war on terror and the death or capturing off OBL significantly impacts and helps to reduce these problems, if not in the short term then definitely in the longer term. Therefore, again it is not in Pakistan's interest to protect OBL.
Now, the question of incompetance springs out. Is the pakistan Army so incompetant that they were completely unaware of that the world most wanted man hiding in its back yard? The same man who has destroyed pakistans sovereignity and security.
The Answer is easily "Yes" but only in the case of finding OBL. Till date Pakistan has captured 20 members of the top leadership of Al Qaeda with many others and handed them to the US. Among these captured terrorist was Khalid Sheikh Mohammad that led to the clues to get the messenger of OBL and hence the man himself. Therefore, Pakistan was incompetant in finding OBL from its own backyard but was very competant to locate other terrorists who played significant roles in Al Qaeda.
The blame of incompetance must not be confined to pakistan alone. American military contractors have been mapping pakistan extensively from the past 3 years and yet they were unaware of the the same very fact. Was the US Army so incompetant that they sent 40,000 troops to Afghanistan even after scanning every nook and corner of pakistan. Was the US Army so ill informed despite all its intelligence and counter terror infrastructure that they bombed innocent lives in the Tribal Areas of Pakistan. The Answer is "No".The americans's are and were not incompetantl. The answer is "No" because this was no small thing and that it took 10 years to hunt OBL down after spending 3 trillion dollars on this war and counting. It required perseverence and joint effort by all the stake holders.
American Intelligence are unable to locate so many terror cells that operate in their own soil until people like the Times Square bomber get minutes away from exploding a bomb. It was not that simple to know where this man was. A man who has streched a sole super power with his ideology was no easy target for pakistani intelligencia to locate.
In my support for Pakistan Intelligence I would say that the Target was too big to be tracked down by Pakistan alone and that it required cooperation from all stake holders of terrorism to get to this day when OBL is finally brought to justice. The president of US has admitted that it is the counter terrorism support of Pakistan that las led to this day of bringing OBL to Justice
The most important question that nobody seems to ask is why Osama choose to live so close to a Pakistani military compound? I mean, if you were on the run, you would hardly decide to go live next door to people “trying” to hunt you down. You would find a place that you feel confident where nobody would find you……and for Osama it is in the lap of Pakistani military academy!!
Sarah:
CHECK OUT SEVERAL OF MY COMMENTS I MADE ON CNN Y'DAY – Here's the link and what I said (incl. an answer to your question). Go to the "most liked" resp. of KiranAlij – I have several comment under that.
a) The GREATEST AUDACITY of hiding OBL right under their noses by Pak ISI is a clear indicator of the extent to which they would go to protect him. The easiest thing they could have done was to hide him somewhere far away, so that they could wash their hands off, if ever he was found. Even from OBL's perspective it's utterly FOOLHARDY to live right under the Pak army's nose if he did not have that assured protection! I am perplexed that not many people seem to make that connection to NAIL Pakistan without a SHRED OF DOUBT!
b) Will Pakistan now VOLUNTARILY give up AYMAN AL-ZAWEHRI & MULLAH OMAR and prove that they are with us in this war! I am sure they will NOT do that, but will wait to SHED CROCODILE TEARS all over again!
c) Hamas on OBL's death (FAREED ZAKARIA calls them moderates!): "We regard this as a continuation of the American policy based on oppression and the shedding of Muslim and Arab blood .. we condemn the assassination and the killing of an Arab holy warrior. We ask God to offer him mercy with the true believers and the martyrs".
d) When asked about OBL's death "NOT A DAY TO REJOICE" -Check out Imam Johari's Video here. Forget about body language, HE DOES NOT EVEN EXPRESS RELIEF THAT HE'S GONE!!!!!!!
e) BTW, a question many Americans are asking.....How many of us have seen ("moderate!") Muslims joining fellow Americans in celebrating Osama's death at GZ, WH, Murfeesboro,TN or Dearborn, MI????
f) Once again, asking Pakistanis for explanation is a WORTHLESS EXERCISE. They will ONLY continue to lie, cheat, mislead, fool, cover-up or call what you want, BUT NEVER ADMIT to their CRIME (NOT Guilt!).
g) Also, it's NOT only that the Pakistani army is involved in legitimate business like Airlines etc, but MORE IMPORTANTLY they are into all kinds of ILLEGITIMATE liasonships such as counterfeiting ($,Euros, Indian Rupees), drug (cultivation & distribution), Kidnappings for ransom, extra-judicial killings etc.etc. you name it...they are in it. Something that Indian intelligence agencies have documented records of for long and shared with the US also....which is unfortunately doing nothing about them!
h) Once again, I deeply appreciate your candid talk. But, just as you said unless Pakistan is punished say BY FIRST DECLARING IT AS A TERRORIST SPONSORING STATE, and followed up with military action like Iraq, or Afghanistan & seize their NUCLEAR WEAPONS, the world will NEVER EVER see any respite from ISLAMIC TERROR & ISLAMIC NUCLAER BLACKMAIL.
i) TRULY GOLDEN WORDS! Unfortunately, inspite of your belief, we hardly see many (any?) comments such as these by Pakistanis. If they are afraid to come out in the open & protest, nobody can prevent them from saying that in these columns.....do they?
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Sarah:
Here's the link to my above postings:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/04/bin.laden.main/index.html?hpt=T1
We should all first research our comments and draw logical conclusions. President Mushararf's book published in 2006, pages 257-260 describe how Al Qaedda's no 3 man, Libbi was chased down in Abottabad in three safe houses and then picked up from the vicinity after a brief skirmish.
In view of these previous incidents and the fact that tArabic tape recording of the courier's conversation was passed by the Pakistani intelligence to CIA, my conclusion then is that BOTH Pakistani and US intelligence knew about this matter and there was a hush -hush joint cooperation between the two on this matter. Many Paper reports and politicians comments have all known to be previously to be misleading- ref US intelligence reports on WMD in Iraq, etc, and so this could all be one of those planned incidents too!
With the economic situatin worsening in USA, a stoppage in aid for Pakistan has already been proposed and perhaps this would teach them to stand on their own feet and good for them.
However, logistically without the use of Karachi as NATO's only transit suply route to Afghanistan and 90% fuel supply to US forces coming from Pakistan, bot Hillary and John Kerry have aleardy started taking a conciliatory stance towards Pakistan , lest the situation spin out of control, causing Obama's troops withdrawal plan be jeopardized withthe main logictics route blocked off. Certainly the Chinese & Soviets would be very glad to see that happen.
Alternative is for both Pakistan and uSA to part ways and let the chips fall where they may if they cannot trust each other. In any case it istime for Peace to be established in that area after 30 years of fighting first the Soviets and then Al-Qaeda. I dont see there were any winners in the wars. Let sanity prevail and give peace a chance now.
yes, I have lived in Pakistan. It used to be a lovely and peaceful place to live until itbecame involved in wars there.
There is much more here happening that meets the eye. Let us be respectful toeach other as we post our comments otherwise we will not make sense.
I grow tired of this question of any relevant question of Pakistan’s knowledge or lack thereof on Osama’s where about. Is a sovereign country for heaven’s sakes and seems the USA looses track of what that exactly means. Foreign aid or not, it seems USA uses or likes to believe that foreign aid should come with strings attached.
Just a thought, we have a secretary of state that has claimed little knowledge of a spouse and ex-presidents land deals in Arkansas. Are you friends with or know the names of your neighbors living two doors down the street?
CIA.....PLZ. BRING BACK POLITICAL ASSASSINATIONS-Let's reduce our deficit, stop spilling precious American blood, and (TRY TO!) reduce antagonism against us in the Muslim world.
Let's not worry, if we are caught RED HANDED we will DENY LIKE THE PAKISTANIS DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ARE OUR LEADERS PLAIN STUPID or NAÏVE. – EU,US & Chinese leaders urges even greater support to Pakistan now. TRULY the greatest benefactor & the SMARTEST GUYS in this terror war today are PAKISTANIS. They get paid either way- Saudis and Islamists world over to hide Bin laden, and US, Europe to find him. All this b’coz of their Nuclear blackmail. No wonder Iran, N.Korea are well on their way to arm themselves with WMDs, not to be invaded like Iraq, Afghanistan. There’s no way this will end unless we DISMEMBER PAK & SEIZE THEIR NUCLEAR WEAPONS. Wait for the next 9/11, 26/11, 7/7 and yet another BIN LADEN once again sponsored by Pakistan!
Hey BhaRATi hater, if you want to take out Pakistan's nuclear weapons then do it yourself, don't try to hide behind Americans.
The nuclear arms race started with India, and if it is to end, its end will start in India.
Oh and don't forget to drink your Gau Jal, Rat Milk, and swim in the dirty excrement infested ganga water like the Rampi$$deshi that you are.
Another example of a fine moderate muslim pakistani
Your utilization of cheap attacks on the commenters' religion (rather than well reasoned arguments) are pretty pathetic. I hope to god you cannot procreate....
ABC reported that the neighbors referred to the compound as "Waziristan", so it's pretty evident they knew. It's nice to know that a sense of humor is a universal attribute.
Dear Yankees, the war is not over, it will only end when all Afghan girls dress up and dance badly like her:
it is interesting to hear how a Indian origin man view about Pakistan. Zakaria is obviously a hater of Zakaria, although he pretent not to be.
It is all very very simple. A local proverb says, "It is darkest at the base of the candle". It is seems very likely that a few key individuals in the Pakistani govt knew and were keeping OBL for their own purposes. Perhaps they cut a deal when the Taliban were about to overrun Swat completely and march on Islamabad. It is impossible to keep such a secret except in a very small and very loyal circle. But such circles exist in all governments. This particular secret circle was too confident. Two people can only keep a secret when one of them is....
bravo to Sdar and other Pakistani brothers.
The biggest threat to the world peace right now is Israel and India. India was founded on the principle of secularism and non-violence, it claims to be the largest democracy in the world, yet it's known for its ugly record of minority persecution and state sponsored terrorism against native Musims. India routinely destroys places of worship of minorities, sometimes with complicit support of local authorities. Case in point being Babri Masjid and Golden temple, whereas Pakistan's record on its minorities is much healthier. These religious persecutions are just tip of the iceberg when it comes to India's record on human rights and minority rights. Kashmir is the region where Indian regime has committed the worst atrocities. Since the present uprising in Kashmir, which is based on genuine greivences of local Muslim population, who're in overwhelming majority, which started in early 1990s, more than 40,000 people have been brutally masscared by Indian forces. Most of them innocent civilians, women and children. The terrorist regime of Indian government has become a nightmare for the people of Kashmir. So much so that they hoist Pakistani flags on the Indian independence day! India proclaims to be among the world's up and coming economic powers. How ludicrous is this assertion? One just needs to visit some large Indian cities and notice the abject poverty in which people are living. Slums are commonplace in every Indian city. People don't have access to even clean water and nutritious food. The state of affair is so pathetic in India that they can't even hold a sporting event of International calibre. Diseases, poverty, caste divisions, religious intolerance, prosecution of minorities and people of lower caste are just some of the ills afflicting the Indian state. As one Muslim ruler from 18th century, who virtually ruled entire Indian subcontinet once said, I will sacrifice entire India for the smell of my beloved Kabul.
Pakistan zindabad, Afghanistan zindabad.
Every one knows who in the world is a threat and a safe haven for terrorists. The world or US does not need your stupid opinion about India and Israel in Particular. Your country of pakistan is no holy saint. It is the breeding groud for Madarasas, a factory that manufactures jihadists who go and kill innocent people in the name of religion. IN 1971 your army masscared a lot of Innocent so called Bangladeshis. If we go on we can dig numerous things in your coutry's history that are nothing but a black scar.
People like you need are the cause of terrorists. You need to see a Psychiatrist. You are sick to the core casting aspersions on Israel.
Before finding faults in other countries, look into your own country and make it better. Dont bark here on the forum.
Willow
@ Willow & opinionIndia
Please go and educate yourselves before barking here in support of Zionist state and fascist Hindu India. For your educational sake I'd encourage you to read:
Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe
Beyond Chutzpah by Norman Finkelstein
Kashmir: The case for Freedom by Roy, Mishra and Bhat
Both of you are clearly stupendiusly biased towards your respective terrorist states. You can not see thousands upon thousands killed by your regimes, yet you're quiet opportunistically focused on Pakistan. Please look at facts with open eyes and clear mind. Quoting western media or Salman Rushdie against Pakistan is tantamount to quoting Fidel Castro or Stalin against Capitalism, what else do you expect??
who is barking, it is you indian opportunist dogs who start barking from both sides , no matter how hard you bark ,Pakistan will always rise above to the situation .
First ,you are not an Afghan ,but a radicalized Pakistani .Many in your league have "progressed" (what a shame) to the level of plotting attacks on US(TIME SQUARE PLOT) and two non resident Pakistanis living the west (David Headley and Hussain Rana) have been caught as conspirators in the MUMBAI ATTACKS and the DANISH plot.
Pakistan and Pakistanis like you will never live in peace with the world.Thats why Pakistan as a country should be liquidated and balkanized. Israel and India are progressive democracies.They will parter with America to defeat Pakistan and its radical ideology.
@ opinionIndia
Yes, I'm a Pakistani and quiet thankful for it. I'm from Afghan origin, my father's family is from Ghazni (Ghazni, the birth place of Mahmud of Ghazni
. There is a political rift between the Pakistani officials and their Afghan counterparts but there's no rift or animosity between the Muslims of Afghanistan, a great nation of heroes and Pakistan, another great nation of Islamic heritage. Honestly speaking, we should both unite. This'd be quiet beneficial for entire South Asia, specially oppressed and downtrodden masses of India.
India seems to be the only nation on earth who prides itself on racial segregation and inequality. You're the only people who preach oppression and unjust treatment of lower caste people. How can you even claim to be a democracy and forward looking nation? Your culture and civilization is not only inferior, but rather quiet pathetic. Isn't it true that you guys look up to Persian poetry and Urdu as being superior languages? No doubt, since whenever I hear Indains talking, I cringe with disgust. How can you even think of comparing yourselves to the sweet melodies of Persian, Turkish and Arab origin? Your entire cultural heritage is worth sacrificing for one stanza of Iqbal's or Hafiz's or Rumi's poem.
@ Sayem
Afghans love India and despise the terror that is exported from Pakistan.Afghan Got told this when BIN LADEN was caught up living in Pakistan for 5 years( what a shame ) near Pakistani Military academy. some proof that you might like...
and ..
Hamid Karzai( Afghan president blames Pakistan for terror)
@ Sayem – In reference to your statement – "Pakistan's record on its minorities is much healthier"..... I wonder, when making this statement, if you cared to survey Shias, Ahmadis, Christians or any of the thousands of people suffering in Pakistani jails due to "Blasphemy Laws"??
If an apparently literate Pakistani (I give you brownie points for being able to type in english and using the internet) has such a myopic vision of his country, I shudder to think of the mindset I can expect of a rural Pakistani villager in Waziristan who can easily be influenced by extremists.
Sayem,
By Posting book references if you prove to be more educated than others on world matters, I can only pity you. For your reference I encourage you to read the following book
Pakistan: Deep Inside the World's Most Frightening State by Mary Anne Weaver
Pakistan has 42 terrorist organizations. Israelites are not the ones who preach violence and encourage terrorists. Its you people who are fundamentalists. I am not saying you are one of those but it seems you are swayed by the thoughts of fundamentalism and Violence against other countries. That path wont get you to the destination. An example is the guy called Osama who is now lying under a ocean bed. Thanks to our American brothers.
Anyway I digress. My intention is not get into a mindless, Senseless and useless debate with you. All you need to understand is we as a state are powerful and definitely know how to defend ourselves. The evidence is the six day war.
Long Live the state of Israel.
Willow
@Sayem
This is what differentiated radicalized Pakistani society from India's.You said you pride Ghazni
.You pride with plunderers and looters who broke Hindu temples ?
"We don't need to UNITE with you" as you and your society is radicalized,but we cliam the land you are sitting on.It belongs to India if you like the truth.
India's caste system is not totally based on hinges of discrimination,else people would not have tolerated it for 5000 years and it has been misused recently and India has introduced equality and positive discrimination laws to help the lower caste,but you have no mouth to talk about us when even shias ,hindus ,sikhs ,christians are treated like worms in your country.
A MUSLIM CAN BE INDIA'S PM.CAN A HINDU BE PAKISTAN'S PM..NEVER NEVER Thats the difference
"Your culture and civilization is not only inferior, but rather quiet pathetic. Isn't it true that you guys look up to Persian poetry and Urdu as being superior languages? No doubt, since whenever I hear Indains talking, I cringe with disgust."
HA HA HA .I thought you had a brain,but I doubt now.There is a saying that a donkey cannot understand the smell of camphor.India culture ,color and traditions that stem from Hinduism is celebrated world wide and people wonder at its progress in ancient mathematics, Sanskrit poetry and scientific advances.Even the Persian poet and mathematician "OMAR KHAYAM" had to invent a new calendar seeing how seasons were misplaced in Persian calendar as opposed to hindu calendar that predicted eclipses accurately to seconds
" Your entire cultural heritage is worth sacrificing for one stanza of Iqbal's or Hafiz's or Rumi's poem."
HA HA..this is as idiotic as a viceroy who commented that one shelf of western poetry is better than whole Indian
literature..little did he know what lies inside the Sanskrit prose..and here is a sample for others in this blog
अपि स्वर्णमयी लंका न मे शोचति लक्ष्मण ।
जननीः जन्मभूमिश्च स्वर्गादपि गरियसि ॥
- श्री राम
Even though Lanka is the land of immense riches, it does not allure me. Being close to mother and motherland (India) is better than heaven. – Ram after defeating Ravan in battle
You know nothing about India rich poetic, spiritual and cultural legacy and this will help you
understand INDIA
@ Sayem
This ambassador was caught lying when he said BIN LADEN RAID WAS "JOINT OPERATION" then retracted after he was shown contrary whitehouse conference proving PAKISTAN HAS NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE RAID
WE ARE NOT SPIRITUALLY, MORALLY , ECONOMICALLY BANKRUPT LIKE PAKISTAN. You are rich with terrorists world over !!
You seem to think that Pakistan is land of equality and Jannat (Heaven) then
can a HINDU BE PM OF PAKISTAN ??? , A MUSLIM CAN BE PM OF INDIA ????
Answer this question first and let us know the views of your "stellar" poets like IQBAL here
Two aspects overlooked by all are
1. The reason Bin laden was next to a military base in Pakistan was because the area was probably chosen by his ISI benefactors to avoid drone missile attack by the US and/or discourage special ops attack due to close proximity to the Military Academy/Cantt and and having two elite regiments of the Pakiistan military stationed there, they (the ISI) thinking was that a possible (quicker) timely response by the the Pakistani establishment would not only counter the US action.but would act as a major deterrent even in planning such an attack.
2. Osama needed medical treatment for his kidney ailments and with a military hospital close by it would present no problem for Osama to get treated either at the military hospital or by a military doctor at home without much difficulty .
Mr. Fareed, why do you hate Pakistan so much? Every article you have regarding Pakistan happens to be rant. Chill and relax.
Fareed is a muslim and a true muslim,well educated balanced in view.Every article on Pakistan is negative because Pakistan is playing evil...the world KNOWS IT NOW
This video is not to insult Pakistan but to bring forth some facts that Salman Rushie states to elucidate the nature of society in Pakistan that breeds terrorism,religious hatred and intolerance.
As Bin Laden was caught living in the sublime quarters near the Pakistani military,we can infer he was being served chicken curry by the Pakistani Generals as a guest for 5 years and we understand the following conclusions about the Pakistani state.
The Present:
Satire can be vivdly drawn from the fact that it has created a professional satanic intelligence service,army that hold the state to ransom and has a facade of democracy as veil .It has managed to be labeled as the 'international migraine'.It has succeeded in fermenting hate and laments against India and mastered the art of counterfeit Indian currency.Above all it seems to flaunt the identity of being a global hub of terror.It blackmails stakeholders in return for cooperation in terror fight against aid, has exacerbated the Afghan conflict by poking a noxious anti-India strategic angle to the problem.
The Future:
From the Baloch unrest to the holocaust of Bengali citizens in the bereaved East Pakistan, the break away state has shown no respect for its people.The Pakistani ambassador to Bangladesh said "Let Bygones be Bygones" wanting to bury the Bengali holocaust in 1971 war chronicles.Such a blemished history with cycles of coups and political upheavals sets stage for the break up.A monumental time when Balochistan gains independence from a state that discriminates on resources and rights to governance.A time when the so called 'Azad Kashmir' realizes that 'azad' is a misnomer for a future of a career in terror camps than one with opportunity and hope in the Indian Union.
I wonder why all terror plots have a Pakistani connection..
I wonder why almost all terror plots have a Pakistani connection..
Pakistan is an international migraine as told aptly by Madeline Albright(Former US Secretary of State) .Today the world faces threat from Pakistan and India says we have been facing this for decades.Pakistani innuendos against India stem from extremism, hate and an offshoot is terror inflicted by Jamat Ud Dawa, Laskar e Tayyaba and Hizbul Mujahideen on India.Satanic Intelligence service, the ISI ,which virtually runs Pakistan.ISI and Pakistaniarmy are a pain in the neck to the world.They have has supported the Taliban for years to fight the Soviets.It now covertly supports the Afghan Taliban to harm the Afgani people(who are my brothers and Muslims )
To radicalized Pakistanis,I can say this.Not only has your insidious Army perpetrated human crimes in Indian Kashmir by training militants and attacking innocent Kashmiri Pandits(Hindus) and Kashmiri Indian Muslims,but also discriminated against your own people by not allocating funds in yearly budgets for Balochistan and break away East Pakistan.Your country had imposed Urdu as the only official language in East Pakistan contemptuously ignoring the feelings of the Bengali section.Did not the Bengali Genocide in East Pakistan happen with the acquiescence of the Pakistani Army.Did not fanatics like Aurangazeb impose jaziya on Hindus?Did he not forcefully build mosques in Hindu holy sites to sow the seeds of conflict?.Is not Jinnah the epitomy of greed for power by going to the extent of Dividing India and insisting on partition with religion as basis .If Religion was the basis for partition or to claim Kashmir my hideous friend, let me tell you that Hindu sacred texts mention Kashmir as one the holy places where Hindu gods reside in the himalayan mountains.Indian ancient history and culture revolves around Kashmir I know verses in Sanskrit that mention them.
It is known that a Kashmiri Muslim's culture has some distinct Hindu flavor as many were proselytized from Hinduism as Islam entered India.We know, that an Indian Muslim is far better off in India than Muslims in your country and he is as patriotic to India like any other Hindu or Sikh
Pakistan is the HUB of terror in the world today and world must fight back and respond like it did in Serbia /Yugoslavia or like it did in Kuwait when Saddam attacked or like Libya where where NATO is fighting Gaddhafi.
I have got my facts right, Pakistanis better know that your country does not treat minority Hindu's and Sikhs well.The only way to deal with Pakistan is to liquidate it.Secularism is the key to ending religious extremism.Afghan intelligence head had also spoken the truth about Pakistan
and even the British prime minister could not help but speak the truth
India is, the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of history, the grandmother of legend, and the great grand mother of tradition. Our most valuable and most instructive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only.
- Mark Twain
and Pakistan is the CRADLE OF TERRORISM
Of course Pakistan knew. Likely Pakistan gave OBL protection as long as he never left the compound. House arrest in exchange for protection for OBL, and also protection for Pakistan (Al Queda won't attack them). Oh...and so Pakikstan would get plenty of money from US.....
Don Montalvo, TX
It's all about intelligence. Fareed, please ask Condoleeza Rice on Sunday the following questions.: 1) It appears to many that you were not really aware of Al Queda when 9/11 occurred. Why not? You and the Bush administration didn't focus on Al Queda, while in the past, Clinton's people did. 2)You claim that faulty intelligence led you to believe that weapons of mass destruction were in Iran. Why did you not take into account the reports of Hans Blix of the U.N. and Scott Ritter, who were the inspection team that declared the WMDs were NOT there? You negated their reports and then said you had faulty intelligence. You need to admit your poor judgement, choices and mistakes before the American people. You can only blame yourself.
yes its all pakistan fault, pakistan is evil state..........so what? lets see what you can do about it.
dont worry we will liquidate Pakistan
Of coures the Pakistani auhtorities knew O.B. Laden was hiding in Abbotabad for the last five years; nevertheless, they reacted like the Captain Renault Casa Blanca when he said: "I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!" The Paki auhtorities reacted the same way: "I'm shocked, shocked to find that Osama Bin Lade is living in here!"
They are traitors and unreliable double-dealing conniving weasels.
@Willow
I commend you for at least maintaining a civil discourse.
The problem with Zionism is that it exploits Judaism, for the sole purpose of fostering fascist ideologies and deprive indigenous Palestenians of their rightful land. This is why Palestenians, including all of your Arab neighbours have hostile stance towards your state. The reasons for these hostilities are genuine and based on facts. Some more books to expose Israeli crimes and propaganda, Israeli Lobby by S. Walt (Dr. Walt is a professor at Harvard), Palestine Inside Out by Saree Makdisi.
I've read Mary Anne Weaver's book on Pakistan. This book is nothing but a thinly disguised effort to paint Pakistan in a negtive picture. Recently there's been a deluge of books, maligning Pakistan. If you want some unbiased and truthful analysis then read Ahmed Hasan Dani's History of Pakistan, Portraint of a Giving Community by Adil Najam or Pakistan: A Hard Country by Lieven.
@opinionIndia
I really don't understand how you claim to be civilized while unable to maintain a civil discourse? The problem with people like you (read Indophiles) has to do with the lack of exposure to other cultures and their works of art. Please get an english translation of Saadi's Bostan or Gulistan, Hafiz Shirazi's Diwan, Allama Iqbal's Bang'e Dara, Baal'e Jibreel or Zarb'e Kaleem, by the way even your national anthem is based on an Iqbal's poem. You mentioned prediction of eclipses within seconds using Indian calender. I find this claim to be ludicrous, since even now, the prediction of eclipse has some margin of error which could be off by a few minutes. You talk about India being better than heaven. I find this quiet amusing, as the notions of Heaven and Hell are found only in Abrahamic religions (Islam, Judaism and Christianity). By implying that such profoundly religious themes have seeped into Indian literature, you've inadvertently proved me correct.
As a sage once said: "I've always lost a debate from an ignorant and have always won a debate with a savant". I'm happily accepting defeat as I can see that none of you qualify to be a savant
Have a good day
" Saadi's Bostan or Gulistan, Hafiz Shirazi's Diwan, Allama Iqbal's Bang'e Dara, Baal'e Jibreel or Zarb'e Kaleem,"
Did all these authors tell you that Arab culture was better LOL .First Pakistanis are not Arabs many have been hindus( long back the ancestral chain your great great ....great^100 th grandparents would have been Hindus ) before the violent Islamic invasion.Many Pakistanis keep an Arab name to flaunt and prove their Islamiat ( trait of an Islamic follower) but the Arabs wonder why they keep Arab names and ask them did you not find a south Asian Pakistani name.
there is so much difference between Islam in the subcontinent , Persia and Arab world..they seems poles apart..SO YOU SINGING PRAISES of these poets/writers who are by the way non entities when compared to the rich history of the subcontinent..you know Pakistan today has a HINDU PAST and Palestine today has the Kingdom of Judah 4000 years ago and the right of Hinduism on Pakistan,Kashmir cannot be denied and right of Jews over the Holy land cannot be denied
prediction of eclipses may seem ludicrous to a dunce, but here is the proof
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_astronomy
"Lagadha 2nd–1st millennium BCE The earliest astronomical text—named Vedānga Jyotiṣa—dates back to around 1200 BCE, and details several astronomical attributes generally applied for timing social and religious events.[8] The Vedānga Jyotiṣa also details astronomical calculations, calendrical studies, and establishes rules for empirical observation.[8] Since the texts written by 1200 BCE were largely religious compositions the Vedānga Jyotiṣa has connections with Indian astrology and details several important aspects of the time and seasons, including lunar months, solar months, and their adjustment by a lunar leap month of Adhimāsa.[9] Ritus and Yugas are also described.[9] Tripathi (2008) holds that ' Twenty-seven constellations, eclipses, seven planets, and twelve signs of the zodiac were also known at that time.'[9]
but you will stick to IQBAL and his belittling canards and mendacious jibes. We don't need to prove the prowess of ancient Indian mathematics and the ingenuity of Ancient India in science ,medicine and other realms
As for accuracy it happened very recently that Hindu calender predicted eclipse at accuracy of seconds and modern science got delayed and as for normal multiplication and division,Vedic maths is much faster than normal multiplication( If you know math )
Do you Pakistanis have a habit of claiming things that is not yours ( Like the land you call Pakistan and Kashmir) ??
We know that we have our problems and I never claimed India to be heaven but Pakistan is hell , it is a problem for the world.There are so many nations poor in Africa that starve THEN WHY SHOULD PAKISTAN GET AID..FOR BLACKMAILING THE WEST?????
There is a Paksitani Muslim problem in this world and you better admit it and there are good muslims like I see in India.You and your nation have no right to the Land of India,besides you are such a problem child for the world ( Did IQBAL and Saadi's Bostan or Gulistan, Hafiz Shirazi's Diwan,, Baal'e Jibreel or Zarb'e Kaleem MENTION THIS TO YOU ???? )
Why do Non resident Pakistani pretend to be Indians ??? is there a shame in calling yourself a Pakistani.
You mentioned "CIVILIZED".Tell me, IS DESTROYING HINDU TEMPLES AND PLUNDERING THEM CIVILIZED??
IS THE MUMBAI ATTACKS ORCHESTRATED BY PAKISTANIS FROM PAKISTAN CIVILIZED?
IS KEEPING A TERRORIST IN SAFE CUSTODY FOR 5 YEARS UNDER ISI PROTECTION "CIVILIZED" ???
Pakistan has no legacy that is good of its own as it was India when it was running ok,but in the last 60 years you have proven how a migraine this country has become for the world and nothing positive seems to come out of it( except you may think "IQBALS SLANDER" which you call poetry)
Did IQBAL tell you that Christianity, Hinduism did not have hell and heaven( IQBAL really tricked you) .Bible and Hindu text s mention them so its not Islams unique right.Keep that in mind.
India is, the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of history, the grandmother of legend, and the great grand mother of tradition. Our most valuable and most instructive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only.
- Mark Twain
and Pakistan is the CRADLE OF TERRORISM
Never belives a Paki.
There are two important questions to ask here. 1) Was Pakistani ISI aware of Osama's where-about? 2) Was US interested in capturing Osama before Obama got elected?
"As a sage once said: "I've always lost a debate from an ignorant and have always won a debate with a savant". I'm happily accepting defeat as I can see that none of you qualify to be a savant"
So you call yourself a savant ??? true savants don't gloat and brag that they are savants.You are trying to hide the lies and evil actions of Pakistan which the world and India will expose happily
Have a good day
SOMALIA + NUCLEAR WEAPONS = PAKISTAN and
PAKISTAN IS SAFE FOR NONE , NOT EVEN OSAMA
PAKISTAN = TERRORISTAN = TALIBANISTAN = RADICALISTAN = LIEISTAN = AIDISTAN = JIHADISTAN = DISCRIMINNISTAN
Pakistan is the hotbed of terrorism in this world.
Terror camps in Pakistan target India and the West.Safe havens in Pakistan's north west provinces target the US troops and Afghan forces.The Jihadi groups in Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir train and send militants to fight India,lest we forget the Mumbai attacks.
Unless the US and other countries fighting the war on terror realize that dealing with Pakistan harshly is the only way to solve the Afghan conflict and defeating Al Qaeda,the scourge of terror will perpetually prosper.
What has Pakistan achieved after 61 years,since partition of India?Why separate land for subcontinent's muslims? What is the prognosis here..WHY IS US PLACATING Pakistan?Why should the international community put up with this country..for the fear of its nuclear weapons that it sold to north Korea?
Is the US/international community braindead to squander 10 billion dollars to 'AID' Pakistan and gets channelized against India?
US should have the spunk to tell Pakistan : ENOUGH is ENOUGH.I am not going overboard when I quote analysts telling about a swift operation by India and Israel to hijack Pakistan's nuclear weapons.This has obvious grave risks,but as if we are not threatened by this sickening state day after day by militant and ISI plots.Once successful,even if a war breaks out,this state can be subdued and divided like Balkan states:
1.BALOCHISTAN
2.PAKISTAN OCCUPIED KASSMIR – Merged with India
3.Ethnic Punjabi Pakistani areas – into a small state administered by the UN for 100 years
4.NWFT occupied by US to hound and flush the militants
Riddance from a State which has become a nemesis for a peaceful democratic ,equalitarian world and secularism will bring prosperity to the subcontinent.
OK..then come we see how you claim that you have the best army. We Pakistanis believe you to be extreme cowards because you bomb every day innocent people .And you have a culture of doing these things. You don't possess the spirit to go against a bigger power like china. China will indeed tell you how to rule the world .Their people consider other people as humans not animals.If ISI claims to worlds notorious intelligence then it must be able to devastate US. US has a culture of harbouring wars all around world for extracting other countries resources like imperialists of 19th century. First know your own history then blame Pakistan. It is your and our elites that they are playing with us. They do those things that we dont want .US wants to come to Pakistan ok we are happy but your soldiers will weep and killed millions in number. They will see every day as a D DAy.
Coward LOL .. your Army surrendered to India with 90,000 prosoners of war ..you are Cowards ..FACTS ARE FACTS
I suggest to go back lest you would be disintegrated like Soviets did at the hands of ISI.
So if we don't go back you will fight Jihad ??? we are ready to fight Pakistan and disintegrate it
lest you forget 1971 war where we liberated Bangaladesh and stooped the Bengali genocide by the Pakistani Army
@opinionindia
I feel pity for Indians because we ruled them more than a thousand years. And they didn't find a chance to do the same and Pakistanis will come again. Just wait .
ha ha are you a terrorist sympathizer??..ruled for a thousand years I can't stop laughing..go revisit history , the Maratha army Chatrapati shivaji bright down your empire and aurangazeb ( a fanatic) to its knees and made it sign an agreement that led to demise of your mughals( who were not secular , as islamic rulers have seldom been respectful of other religions)
World does not pity Pakistan , it knows Pakistan is a rogue state
Then why do you Indians worship King Akbar, Haider Ali and Tipu Sultan as your idols?? I still feel pity that Marathas were butchered by Aurangzeb. I still pity for you when you make movies to honor our kings. I still feel pity for you when you made nuclear bomb through the mind of our fellow Muslim and your president. I still feel pity when you people go to London and excrete on the the statue of Nehru. I still feel pity......... don't make me remind you that more than 25 percent of India is in the hands of Naxalites and you talk of disintegrating Pakistan.
"Then why do you Indians worship King Akbar, Haider Ali and Tipu Sultan"
LOL you are indeed making this forum a canvas for your typical Pakistani brainwashed history taught in Madarsaas for free i guess.We don't worship these Kings ..thats what your Radical Mulla at the mosque you go tells you.
You and your brother Pakistanis worship "your King Osama Bin Laden" who just died a dogs death and I condone your sorrow
Aurangazeb was humiliated by the Marathas and he mismanaged his empire down to the ground
becuase all he was concerned about was to kill his brothers and harm Hindus .Muslim rulers seldom have been secular as they DON'T RESPECT OTHER RELIGIONS so its payback time and the World will teach Pakistan a lesson that Pakistan will not live top remember as it will stand divided 
As for Tipu Sultan , He was unbiased and secular and we will respect that .
"feel pity for you when you made nuclear bomb through the mind of our fellow Muslim and your president."
So any muslim who does anything good goes to Pakistan's credit is it ..that is the zenith of Idiocy.He will not be president unless India is secular ..and A HINDU CANNOT BE PAKISTAN'S PRESIDENT,thats the difference
Any act of terrorism done by RADICALIZED MUSLIM GOES TO PAKISTAN DISCREDIT( I MEAN BLAME)
DID YOU FORGET THAT YOUR GREAT GREAT ...GREAT^100 th Grandfather muyst have been a Hindu
and what a man this radicalized islam has turned you into
I PITY YOU 
I want we don't want to support terrorists. But every radical movement has a great cause behind it. If they have left their homes and comforts of their lives then we should think of cause and effect procedures and not of military interventions. they are fighting against something very big in a hope to achieve something very big risking their lives in the way as Osama did. Now Osama was an investor a business man who deviated to fight against US. What you make of it?.Dont thing like mad people accepting whatever you see in the newspapers and whatever you see on the internet. Remember the trail of generals by Stalin after WWII , at that time all russians were happy that they have convicted traitors but latter they found out they those people on the trail were real heroes of war.
"I want we don't want to support "
That's a LIE.Your country and probably even you( the expat and non expat Pakistanis ) like to choose terrorists who can attack INDIA ,AFGHANISTAN AND THE UNITED STATES.You(Your Government and Your ISI which you worship
) like to give shelter to the terrorist ( your King , by the way , whom you worship and for whom your country held rallies and Friday prayers) for 5 long years and you don't like it when Pakistani Taliban attacks you.
"Osama did. Now Osama was an investor a business man who deviated to fight against US. What you make of it?"
We make of it that Saudi society is so radicalized and so is Pakistani society that men at even middle age can get inspired
by radicalism and become evil,like Bin laden ( SEPT 11 ATTACKS) Like David Headly ( Expat PAKISTANI American caught as conspirator of Mumbai attacks by the FBI ) and Tawahhur Hussain Rana (( Expat PAKISTANI Canadian caught as conspirator of Mumbai attacks by the FBI )
Running after Americans and Jews is Bigorty, fanatics..because The state of Israel has the right to exist as Jews have lived there for thousands of years.4000 years ago there was the kingdom of Judah before they were expelled and right of the Jews to the holy land CANNOT AND WILL NOT BE DENIED.
Kashmir has been the part of Hindu culture and our scriptures time immemorial talk about it and we have our holy shrines there .It is our Land and so is todays Pakistan .The right of India and Hindus in Kashmir with Historical basis in the last 5000 years CANNOT AND WILL NOT BE DENIED.
To Pakistanis who bring up Kashmir to justify terrorism ,here is the answer
The right of India over Kashmir does not stretch back up-to only Partition.Kashmir has been a part and parcel of our social fabric,culture and our scriptures talk about it time immemorial which also stem from religion. Our claim over Kashmir is grounded in facts and India's right over it cannot be denied.
Look you and we were oppressed by an imperialist nation for 200 years. This is the fact we both cant deny. Now you worship imperialism when you take sides with the policies of US against innocent people of Afghanistan. US has no right to rule Afghanistan . I am a Pathan and we Pathans are ready to liberate our homeland from the aggression of any power. No matter it is soviet union or United States. Kashmir issue will keep on as it is today but whenever we have a "leader" a charismatic ones we would not need a Nuke to pull you out of your temples in Kashmir. Every pathan waits to be used like a nuke against the oppressors.
" @ Asif
You wrote "we would not need a Nuke to pull you out of your temples in Kashmir. Every pathan waits to be used like a nuke against the oppressors."
This proves that you don't respect Hinduism and our right to worship in temples in Kashmir as we have historical right there.You are in fact a budding terrorist in this forum as you speak about nuking us.
" I am a Pathan and we Pathans are ready to liberate our homeland from the aggression of any power." – If you mean America then it did not agress , it is protecting Afghanistan from the tyranny of the Taliban.If you mean India and Kashmir
I will repaste this :
"The right of India over Kashmir does not stretch back up-to only Partition.Kashmir has been a part and parcel of our social fabric,culture and our scriptures talk about it time immemorial which also stem from religion. Our claim over Kashmir is grounded in facts and India's right over it cannot be denied." not by Pathans, not by Pashtuns and Not by radicals
Afghanistan is now in good hands with the Northern Allaince.The other day I watched Amrullah Saleh speak and I admired his patriotism and intelligence.Try to learn good things from your countrymen and Afghans like Saleh
don't we carried away by anti US,anti India propaganda in in your religious circle
Location of Pakistan is not the problem, but Pakistani society built for only MUSLIMS is the problem.It breeds religious divide,conflict with India, inspires causes for terrorism, fosters divide with the west;
Liquidation of an ISLAMIC STATE of PAKISTAN in south asia and making it secular will bring PEACE and Muslims should learn to live in secular societies
To Pakistanis who bring up Kashmir to deceive the world and hide all blame,here is the truth
Lets GIVE BALOCHISTANIS a chance for vote to decidde if they wanna continue to be part of Pakistan ( A failed state that discriminated agaInst Bengalis and now Balochis )
BALOCHISTAN WANTS PLEBISCITE AND FREEDOM FROM PAKISTAN.Pakistan stop discriminating against people of Balochistan where they do not get revenue spent on their development after their mineral wealth is eaten away by Pakistani state.
FREEDOM FOR BALOCHISTAN.
"Mark my words. When Osama bin Laden is found, he will be found in a Pakistani city"
- Afghan President Hamid Karzai in 2006 to Fareed Zakaria
To defensive Pakistanis
we know you sympathize with Pakistans ISI and rogue Army
If you are so much defensive about Pakistan's role( which is dishonest and worthy of shame) then stop accepting AID from US and return the 20 billion $ aid you have so far received ..:)
Now Pakistanis usually address Indians as "Hindu" and call us extremist, we don't blow up markets like you( your citizens, Pakistanis )
we don't sail from Karachi to Mumbai and go on a shooting rampage unlike you(Pakistanis)
we are not implicated from the west as Non resident Pakistanis in Mumbai terror plot unlike "Muslim Pakistani " HUSSAIN RANA
we are not implicated from the west as Non resident Pakistanis in Mumbai terror plot unlike "Muslim Pakistani " david headley ( changed his muslim pakistani name to a western name
)
we are not caught plotting the TIME SQUARE BOMB PLOT
WE ARE NOT CAUGHT SHELTERING BINLADEN FOR 5 YEARS
WE ARE NOT SHELTERING MUMBAI ATTACK MASTER MINDS ( ISI CHIEF PASHA), HAFEEZ SAEED
WE are not giving guest visa to DAWOOD IBRAHIM (Terrorist WANTED BY US and India)
we are not implicated from the west as Non resident Pakistanis in Danish terror plot
Extremism is Rampant in PAKISTAN , NOT India which is secular and tolerant
PAKISTAN SHAME SHAME
GOD What a MENACE this country ( Pakistan ) has become to the WORLD !!!
For Pakistanis who say US should leave the region, here is the response :
Why should USA leave the region,US would not have come unless Sept 11 happened from the region which included Paki conspirators
.Before sept 11 , Pakistan was supporting Taliban in Afghanistan 
the only nation on earth ( probably saudis also) .Then after US started bombing Afghanistan , Pakistan had to shamefully airlift 16000 Paki soldiers from Afghanistan who were with the Taliban 
You Pakistanis should leave the region or go to another planet.We wish we can catapult you and your people across to another planet
as we believe in value of human life , we don't wanna harm you 
, but we just don't want you to be on earth 
.
You can settle in the this neo planet and then fight among yourselves( we know how shias are attacked in your country and there will be no use of your Blasphemy law, we will gladly take your minorities ) as you will have no neighbours..No India or America or Israel
Chief Foreign affairs correspondent of CBS Lara Logan after speaking to "top Intelligence and Military officials in the United States" says that all of them are UNANIMOUS THAT
IT IS INCONCEIVABLE THAT PAKISTAN DID NOT KNOW THE LOCATION OF BIN LADEN
IT IS INCONCEIVABLE THAT OSAMA BIN LADEN WAS HIDING OUT IN THIS CITY WHICH IS CRAWLING WITH RETIRED MILITARY OFFICIALS OR MILITARY CADETS(PAKISTANI) OR ACTIVE MILITARY PERSONNEL ...
THIS COMPOUND WAS 8 TIMES LARGER THAN ANY OTHER BUILDING IN AREA...IT IS IMPROBABLE THAT PEOPLE LIVING IN THAT CITY ( ABBOTABAD ) , LET ALONE MILITARY ESTABLISHMENT HAD NO IDEA ,NEVER ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT IT, ...
IF IT CAME TO THE ATTENTION OF US INTELLIGENCE THEN IT CENTAINLY WOULD HAVE COME TO THE ATTENTION OF PAKISTANI INTELLIGENCE,THEIR MILITARY BRASS,
..MOST OF THE OFFICIALS SAY THAT PAKISTAN HAS BEEN LAUGHING AT THE United States , LAUGHING IN THE FACES OF THE AMERICANS BECAUSE THEY HAVE KNOWN ALL ALONG THAT OSAMA BIN LADEN IS THERE
AND PAKISTANIS STOOD UP AND SAID THAT OSAMA BIN LADEN WAS NOT IN PAKISTAN .....
BUT NOT ONLY IS HE IS PAKISTAN ,BUT HE NOW ,TURNS OUT TO BE RIGHT AMONGST THE "MILITARY ESTABLISHMENT" ITSELF
PRESIDENT OBAMA SAID OSAMA BIN LADEN WAS FOUND "DEEP INSIDE" PAKISTAN
..NOT IN THE BORDER WITH AFGHANISTAN , NOT IN CAVE
MOMENT OF TRUTH HAS ARRIVED ...WORLD SHOULD DISMEMBER PAKISTAN , IMPOUND ITS NUCLEAR WEAPONS THEN GO FOR A WAR TO ELIMINATE ALL TERRORISTS HIDING INSIDE PAKISTAN
AMERICAS GREATEST ENEMY IS NOT AL QAEDA, ITS PAKISTAN
PAK TERROR 
PAK TERROR 
PAK TERROR 
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