Fareed spent last week in Cairo, Egypt talking to people from all walks of life about the revolution, the months after Mubarak fell, and America's role in the region. I sat down with Fareed to get his main takeaways from his trip.
Amar C. Bakshi: After your trip to Cairo, are you more or less optimistic about Egypt’s future?
Fareed Zakaria: In the short-run, I’m less optimistic. But in the long-run, I remain optimistic.
In the short-run there are enormous pressures. We think of Egypt as having gone through a regime change. But it really didn't go through a regime change. Egypt has been run since 1952 by a military dictatorship. It is still run by a military dictatorship.
Mubarak resigned. A few people around him resigned. But at the end of the day the military still holds power. They have a huge vested interest in maintaining the current system politically, financially and socially. They aren't going to go quietly into the night.
The great struggle taking place in Egypt is over whether the democratic elements of the new system have the power and skill to erode the strength of the dictatorial elements of the old system. Those dictatorial elements are largely housed in the military.
You saw a very similar process in Indonesia. The Indonesian military was very large, powerful and quite involved in business and the economy after Suharto's fall. Over the following years, it has not been easy to get the military out and to erode its power. The process has been slow. But two democratic electoral transitions later you can see that there is some rebalancing. The democratic parts of the system - the national legislature and the elected president - have gained legitimacy, which gives them power.
So while the military has the power of actual control of facts on the ground, the democratic elements develop a power of their own. This leads to a tussle.
I’m hopeful that Egypt will do as well as Indonesia over the next 10 or 15 years.
I think the people who imagine a Turkish model where the Egyptian military steps back the way the Turkish military did are going to be disappointed. The Turkish military only relinquished power because the European Union absolutely insisted on it and made it a principle of Turkey’s path into the European Union.
Watch: De-Mubarak-ification of Egypt's streets.
For 10 years the Turks were trying very hard to meet every goal that the European Union set. That was the context in which the Turkish military gave up a lot of their power. It has been hugely controversial, difficult and complicated even in that circumstance.
Egypt's ideal model should be Turkey. The realistic goal is Indonesia. What you’re really trying to avoid is Pakistan, where the military has allowed a lot of democratic processes that turn out to Kabuki Theater - behind the curtain the military actually runs everything.
What do you think about the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt?
My preliminary sense about the Muslim Brotherhood – and I don’t say any of this with any confidence, because nobody knows, and I found that even people in Egypt were quite unsure about what to make of them - is that they are quite strong; they are well organized; and they seem to have more radical intentions than they let on.
They’re quite cagey and circumspect about what they say. There’s a façade of reasonableness that seems to me to be a façade.
Watch: Amr Moussa says Israel must get serious about peace.
Here I’m reading body language and listening to how they’re negotiating for seats and how they have become more and more demanding over the last few months.
But I do think there are many other elements in the Egyptian system. There is the military. There are the Coptic Christians who make up 10% of the population. There are the urban seculars and liberals.
So I feel as though it is quite conceivable that a truly democratic Egypt will emerge with a diversity of parties and interests and that the Muslim Brotherhood will not be able to dominate.
But everyone is operating in the dark. Everyone tells me the Muslim Brotherhood will get 30% of the vote. I asked a lot of people, “Where does this number come from? How did you decide it was 30% and not 45% and not 20%?”
Nobody had a good answer. There were a couple of polls that had been done and then there was an election that took place in which the Muslim Brotherhood was not allowed to run and so its candidates ran as independents. If you read all the tea leaves, 30% is what you come to. But it's not based on anything like what we would call robust polls.
So the truth of the matter is nobody knows. What you can tell very clearly is that they are well-organized and they have a powerful appeal. Beyond that it’s very tough to tell.
Watch: Fareed's take is Egypt still is not free.
For years they were the only organized opposition to the regime, which meant that lots of people voted for them as a kind of anti-Mubarak vote. That certainly won't happen going forward. So there are pluses and minuses.
There is a very small chance that Egypt will become Iran. But there is a significant chance that the Muslim Brotherhood will gain more power and might even get a disproportionate number of votes. And they’re fundamentally an illiberal force in Egyptian politics. Their agenda is quite reactionary. So the key will be for Egyptian democrats and seculars of all kinds to try to combat their influence. This will not work itself out naturally. It will take energy and activism on the part of democrats.
What ought the U.S. role be in Egypt?
What I was struck by is how the U.S. has gotten no credit for helping in the ousting of Mubarak, which is I think quite unfair. I think it’s understandable that people resent America's support for Mubarak over so many decades.
But the truth is it took Bill Clinton a year and a half to abandon Suharto. It took Ronald Reagan two years to abandon Marcos. It took Obama two weeks to abandon Mubarak.
And it’s tough. Things are not as easy as they sound. The President of the United States is not a college professor.
Watch: GPS show with Egypt's revolutionaries and leaders.
So when people say that Obama should denounce Saudi Arabia - which they all told me by the way - it’s not that easy. You’ve got to worry about the effect that would have on the price of oil and what that could do to the global economy and what that would do to America jobs. This is not an idle concern. This is part of the U.S. President's job description.
So I don’t know how much the U.S. can do to change views of America in the short-run. In the long-run if the United States stays engaged and tries to help economically and in building the new democratic system, it can strengthen ties.
Remember, we used to support the South Korean dictatorship and we now have a very good relationship with South Korea as a democracy. Such changes are achievable.
Watch: Mohamed ElBaradei on Egypt's future.
I will say that even though the Israeli-Palestinian issue was not the animating issue in Tahrir Square and that the protesters' principal concerns were with their own democratic rights, all of the student activists and the other people I talked to in Cairo said that if there was a resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian issue it would enhance the America’s image substantially.
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the facts are that a goverment run buy thevies, bigots, selfintrest over the public intrest is inherting our sil ,our earth, our plante. There day is here and its comming to a drastic end. I vote and trusted the American People,that keep at present a distances away from there goverment a goverment not for them a govertment for themselves
Can CNN proofread their articles before putting them online please?
"Over the following years, it has not been easy to the military out and to erode its power."
'to get the military out' sounds a lot better rather than making everyone guess what you are trying to say...
So you're asking CNN to change the text within a quotation so it makes more sense to you? Moron... A quotation is a direct quote so if that's how the guy said it then that's how it will be written.
The sooner the democratic government replaces the military rule, the better. I hope this ruling transition won't end up like Pakistan's military rule under the shadow of so called democracy since the foundation of that country in 1947. The change in Egypt must be real by establishing a democratic government without any influence from the military. Otherwise, Egypt would be another Pakistan with a political and religious conflict – a room for the terrorists to rise with no bright future. That exactly happened in Sudan, Tunisia, Libya, Nigeria,Yemen, Iran, Syria, and Iraq (of course Pakistan and Afghanistan). I hope the revolutionary youth of Egypt understand that high stake for their beloved country.
It was still effective communication! You understood it!
Yes, it seems like you are positively right = A+ grade-score....
Well said, Thomas.
WHAT? It's difficult to take you seriously when you make so many grammatical errors
yeah then they can be democratic like our government. "theives, self interest etc' oh wait ... yeah its pretty much the same
The American people are also getting sick of It's military dictatorship and our puppet presidents and government run media industrial complex and their phoney reporters like Fareed Zakaria that are nothing more than Federal Reserve bank stooges. google: FIAT Empire/ why the federal reserve bank violates the US constitution. And, also research JFK'S Executive order 11110. Lets take our country back. God bless all, and good luck
The American people are also getting sick of It's military dictatorship and our puppet presidents and government run media industrial complex and their phoney reporters like Fareed Zakaria that are nothing more than Federal Reserve bank stooges. google: " FIAT Empire/ why the federal reserve bank violates the US constitution ". And, also research JFK'S Executive order 11110. Lets take our country back from the military industrial complex, the mega banks and special interests. Ron Paul 2012 or we are forever lost. Do your research!!!!!! We have to get it right this time. Obama and George Sorso and the illegal federal reserve ponzi scheme are bankrupting our great country and you are financing your own demise through illegal taxation...google:" Aaron rousso/ America freedom to facism directors edition ". Theres a 50 thousand dollar reward if anyone is interested... if you can come forward with the IRS tax law that states Americans must bay income tax. But you cant collect the 50k, because the law doesnt exist.... God bless all, and good luck
April,4,2011
Last week I was both surprised and pleased when the Supreme Court upheld lower court decisions requiring the Federal Reserve Bank to comply with requests for information made by Bloomberg under the Freedom of Information Act (“FOIA”). Bloomberg simply wanted to know who received loans from the Fed’s discount window in the aftermath of the 2008 financial market crisis, and how much each entity received. Surely this is basic information that should be available to every American taxpayer. But the Fed fought tooth and nail all the way to the Supreme Court to preserve their privileged secrecy. However, transparency and openness won the day. There are some 29,000 pages to decipher, but a few points stand out initially.
The Fed lent huge sums of our money to foreign banks. This in itself was not surprising, but the actual amount is staggering! In one week at the height of the crisis, about 70% of the money doled out went to foreign banks. We were told that bailing out banks was going to stave off a massive depression. Depression for whom? We now know that the Fed’s bailout had nothing to do with helping the American people, who have gotten their depression anyway with continued job losses and foreclosures. But now we learn that a good deal of the money did not even help American banks!
In light of recent world events, perhaps the most staggering revelation is that quite a bit of money went to the Arab Banking Corp., in which the Libyan Central Bank owned about a third of its stock. This occurred while Libya, a declared state sponsor of terrorism, was under strict economic sanctions! How erratic the US must appear when we shower a dictator alternately with dollars and bombs! Also, we must consider the possibility that those loans are inadvertently financing weapons Gaddaffi is using against his own people and western militaries. This would not be the first time the covert activities of the Fed have undermined not only our economy and the value of the dollar, but our foreign policy as well.
Of course I can’t say I’m surprised by the poor quality of the data provided by the Fed. The category of each loan made, whether from the “Primary Discount Window”, the “Secondary Discount Window,” or “Other Extensions of Credit,” is redacted. Thus, we don’t know with certainty how much discount window lending was provided to foreign banks and how much was merely “other extensions of credit”. Also, some of the numbers simply do not seem to add up. We are of course still wading through the massive document dump, but it does seem as though several billions of dollars are unaccounted for.
As the world economy continues to falter in spite of – or rather because of – cheap money doled out by the Federal Reserve, its ability to deceive financial markets and American taxpayers is coming to an end. People are beginning to realize that when the fed in effect doubles the worldwide supply of US dollars in a relatively short time, it has the effect of stealing half your money through reduced purchasing power. Rapid inflation will continue as trillions in new money and credit recently created by the Fed flood into the commodity markets.
It is becoming more and more obvious that the Fed operates for the benefit of a few privileged banks, banks that never suffer for bad decisions they make. Quite the opposite – as we have seen since October 2008, under our current monetary system politically-connected banks are paid to make bad decisions. Lets take back our country from psecial interest banks that are stealing all our tax dollars. If 700 billion dollars in american tax payers money went to the American people instead of elite banks we could have gave "our" taxes to help make mortgage payments for every house being foreclosed on and paid off all our credit card debts., they are our taxes? why is washington redistributing our wealth for us? and noone says a word? Hank paulson got 200 million dollars for brokering the deal? This nothing more than a bank heist in broad daylite in front af every american and we stand for this treachery? We need to stand up and stop special interests before its too late.
The fact that Egypt is still a right-wing dictatorship should be of no surprise to anybody. That's the way the right-wing thugs in Washington like it and the C.I.A. is working overtime to keep it that way. In that case,we can expect the Egyptians to continue to pander to Washington for some time to come and that's bad!!!
You have your "right"'s confused. The gov't of Egypt, and most of the the coutries in the region,are "left" by our standards....Almost socialist.
"Socialism" doesn't mean "whatever I don't like."
Conservatism (religious or otherwise) is what is generally defined as being on the political right. By world standards, the middle east is extremely far to the right.
That said, there's no particular reason that Republicans would want a Muslim theocracy in Egypt. Christian theocracy? Now you're talking. Friendly to Israel? Also a Republican desire. An Egypt run by the Muslim Brotherhood? Not a chance.
So what? even if what you are saying is true, are you saying America would not prop up "socialist" governments? This is not the cold war era.
Jason, I think you are confused on what socialism as opposed to Liberalism. I would say that Egypt is... or was a socialist democracy. Hardly liberal or conservative.
YES, as long as somebody still suck up to USA, then good, fine and dandy, so be it sellout stooges too!!
You obviously have no clue what Conservatism (or "right") means. I'll give you a small clue: Conservatism is about FREEDOM. Freedom from overbearing, Robin Hood type taxes to create a nanny-state for those who can vote, but contribute NOTHING to this great Country. It means a FREE market economy to the greatest extent possible, which is PROVEN to create the best standard of living for ALL. It also means FREEDOM from fear of other countries or forces, which means a strong military. I'll grant you the military has been mis-used more by Republican officials than by Dems, but BOTH sides are guilty, and that has NOTING to do right or left.
Although the military in Egypt doen't pose a threat to the outside world, its decades long uncontested status arouses both mistrust and fear among the Egyptians. During the unrest, it didn't support Mubarak, let him step down, have him arrested and later tried for high crimes. Now it's holding an iron grip on the country and doesn't hesitate to use forces to put down protesters, who defy its supremacy and challenge its legitimacy.
If Egypt gets a strong parlament and civilan society, the power of the military would diminish like the turkish one. Hopefully the military – like its peer in Indonesia – would just be a transcient caretaker and relinquish its executive power after the country is back on its feet again. Sofar the military has been on amiable terms with the U.S. amd could still be its reliable ally.
You make a good point.
I think your statement is a wishful thinking. Egypt’s military has enjoyed many political and economic incentives since its July 1952 coup that toppled the monarchy, including top government jobs and access to cheap housing and hospitals and to think they are willing to stand down from power is naive. Some suggested for Egypt to follow the footsteps of Turkey which I doubt. It seems a deal has been made between Muslims Brotherhood and military and some my evidence are:
• The military scheduled the next parliamentary elections so soon allowing the only organized poloitical party “Muslims Brotherhood” to expect a landslide win.
• The military allowed drafting the permanent constitution after next parliamentary elections where the majority of the parlmant choose Islamic scholers to draft the constitution making Egypt an Islamic State.
• It issued a declaration making sharia law "the principal source of legislation" and has failed to prosecute Muslims responsible for hate crimes against Christians.
• It freed from prisons the most radical Islamists and allowed more than 200 Egyptians fighting US in Afghanistan to enter Egypt.
•
The big question is: When Obama pays money to Egypt in the millions is that going to the military???!!
I believe it is. So, at this time Obama and therefore the United States are supporting the military. I would question if Obama believes that the military will prevail and therefore making sure they are on his side by paying them money? It is understandable that America will do whatever is in the best interest of America and they need Egypt as an ally. In fact, it probably wouldn't hurt that Egyptians rely on US aid forever so they can ensure a loyal partner. But, I really hope that's not true. So, of course Fareed, Egyptians have a right to be angry. What Obama says is meaningless unless it is supported by the appropriate actions. Or he shouldn’t say anything at all and not do anything at all. That wouldn’t upset me.
I don’t think the US should say speeches about how much they care about Egypt when they only care about their interest; it makes people angry because President Obama is undermining their intelligence. Yes, Obama helped support the fall of Mubarak but that’s only when he found out that the military will still be in play and therefore his interest would still be protected in Egypt since he knows very well that the military is the one with the power.
I would still like to believe that Obama and his members truly are acting and believe that what's in the best interest of the US and the rest of the world is to help the Egyptians who want to better their country and not run a dictatorship like the army is. A stable Egypt is the best ally to the US not a needy country that is poor and only interested in foreign aid. Wouldn't it be better if they have a strong ally rather than a weak one? At least Egypt wouldn’t be a safe haven for terrorists? Or is the US worried about changing status quo? May be the US is worried that Egypt could grow powerful and therefore they wouldn’t be able to control it by bribing it with money. I don’t know. Crazy thought but I hope I am totally wrong and I welcome someone challenging this idea.
I am very concerned that even though President Obama says he supports the activists and the people who love Egypt but instead he is helping the army run a dictatorship in Egypt to ensure that Egypt continues to be a US ally. I would rather not have the US give any aid at all because I think they are giving it to the wrong people. Do we know exactly who is receiving this aid in Egypt? I really want to find out!! Because, I really hope that the US is not helping the dictators thrive. But who knows?
I know that what Obama's objective is is to keep Egypt within the clutches of Washington's control. One and possibly the only way of doing that is by handing out foreign aid money and keeping Egypt economically addicted and thereby force that country to follow the dictates of the right-wing thugs in Washington.
Just so I understand you correctly, you're saying that Obama wants Egypt to take orders from right wingers? I just want to be sure I read that right.
60% of the time, it works every time.
I have a suggestion that will work well for both the US and Egypt. Why not instead of giving millions to the military, invest that money in Egypt.
This can be done if the US hires one of the foreign financial aid specialist/consultant in the US to work with an Egyptian trusted business man (like the billionaire Naguib Sawiris) and find out where the US can instead invest money in some promising businesses in Egypt. This will help boost the Egyptian economy and the US can get some money in return for the profits. Kind of like the Shark Tank show on TV but big scale (i.e. where the US is the shark and Egypt is the small business owner). I am not a business major so I don't know but it's an idea. That way the US is not just throwing money away when it's economy is suffering and that way it can help Egypt build it's very poor economy. Does anyone know if this is feasible?
Egypt has a lot of resources that are not being used properly because of the large scale corruption going on. But, Egypt has a lot to offer if being run by the right people.
YES, the USA has no real money to spend on foreign nations whatsoever. America is broke and bankrupt. Big Daddy is still bluffing and bullying, in hopes of imposing His hateful will on all other smalll countries by military might!!! Taking by force of arms the natural resources!
Very well put,artistchd. Thank you.
Faried Report is great and Sarah Reply is wonderful ,I hope Obama administration has to study the situation accurately in Egypt to avoid doing wrong policies,and the big problem in Egypt is absence of LAW ENFORCEMENT & JUSTICE ......
Hello? Of course it is – as advertised. Dopey reason for an article and well before any reasonable transition period could happen. If it is still a military dictatorship in a year then we can worry. Or not.
And if the military dictatorship is replaced, Egypt will become an Islamo-fascist dictatorship. One can never reconcile Islam with universal suffrage, women's rights and Western democracy. This blather in the American boob tube media about an "Arab Spring," is absolutely hilarious. These restive Islamic garbage dumps are headed for one or another version of Iran, not democracy.
Well said
Just because Obama abandon Mubarak in the last two week does not mean that Obama / America in favor of democracy or siding with Egyptian. In fact, for the first 10 days of the revolution the U.S. strugelled so hard to keep Mubarak in power just as they supported his oppressing regime for 30 years. and THAT something Egyptian will not forget. Egyptian are quite aware of the rule of the U.S. in the middle east and know very well that the U.S. does not want to see a real democracy anywhere in the middle east. U.S. is just playing with some fancy words and they just want to see the kind of democracy that serves America / Israel interest.
Vandi: U.S. is just playing with some fancy words and they just want to see the kind of democracy that serves America / Israel interest.
You can hardly blame them. No one wants to see "the kind of democracy" that serves the interests of his/her/their enemies.
The country has not changed only the faces. The Egyptian Government corruption is still in vogue. They are taking away businesses that may have had a faint involvement with Mubarak. I was evaluating a $13 million investment in a company in Cairo. I could not get any straight answers from the Egyptian banks and the government. With the total lack of transparency, Egypt has a very long way to go.
Throwing this out here, maybe these people don't need democracy. Honestly, maybe they run better under a dictatorship. Like a masochist, maybe the government just needs to show them their place.
May be you need to shut up and respect us
these animals need a strong hand, not democracy. islam and democracy is like fire and water.
I don't think calling anyone animals does any good. Come on, why so much hatred? Why do you hate Egyptians so much? We do NOT deserve a dictatorship!! Come on! Egypt has always been a civilized nation, it's in our blood to love our country and these remarks are so hurtful. It is only recently, respectively speaking to Egypt's long history, we have turned into a third world nation. We have it in us to turn our country into the beautiful nation it once was. It will take a lot of work and we will need a lot of support but we can do it; just don’t stand in our way.
Yes, there are terrorists in Egypt and it's the dictatorship and corruption that helps them thrive. So, by giving up on a civilized democratic Egyptian country is like saying we want them to harbor more terrorists. Nobody wants that even if you don't give a damn about Egypt or the rest of the Middle East. It is clear that if they continue the way they have been running only bad things will come out of it and you would be naive to think it will stay only in the Middle East. Just look at the tragedy of September 11.
Help Egypt clean its streets from the terrorists and don't say that America should help the military dictatorship which will only be helping those terrorists thrive. America should either act seriously to help Egypt make a turn for the better or not do anything at all.
To Brian: You do not know the history of this great country and its people to make a remark like that. For your information, not too long ago, Egypt was a world power. Egypt was lending money to Britain and the US. So "these people [Egyptians]" don't deserve a dictatorship. We are the ones that built the pyramids and had the greatest civilization in world history.
The only problem with Egyptians is that we have always been a very peaceful nation. From the time of Pharaohs we were only interested in enhancing our civilization and our lives and did not pay any attention to protecting our beautiful country. So, we were easy targets. We were invaded by the Romans, the French, the English and Arabs. All of which did not respect us, our religion nor our beautiful history. They destroyed as much as possible of our country including our Coptic language.
After destroying our country, all these other nations thrived off of robing our country. Now, that we finally tried to stand up for our rights through these decades of invasions, you say we don't deserve it??! You should be ashamed to say that. You should know the history of the country you are putting down before saying something like that. So, I might be biased but I believe Egyptians are the smartest, most beautiful (both inside and out) people in the world. By Egyptians I don't mean the terrorists and fanatic Muslims. Those people are not Egyptians; their ancestors were not the Pharaohs. Their ancestors are from one of the nations that invaded us over the years.
We have been putting up with so much over the years from brutal attacks and this last revolution was the first time the true Egyptians really managed to get up and stand up for their own rights. So, it is disrespectful at best to say that we deserve a dictatorship. NO! We deserve better and the lives of all those innocent people who died for the sake of their country do not deserve that comment! I am really sad but I am worried that this is how the US and other countries think and that's why they are helping the dictatorship thrive. I hope your view is a minority.
You make the mistake of believing your own propaganda. Egypt's days of glory are 2000-3000 years gone. Learn to live with what you truly are, not some state-sponsored fairy tale.
What world have you been living in? Your days as a "power" were before the idea of a Nation-State, before the days of Christ himself. Your history speaks of being conquered, thats all. Be they Assayrian, Persian, Babalonian, Greek, Roman, Arab, French or British.
Well said Sarah. Masr om el donia.
Brian: I am sorry but you still don't know much about Egypt's history! During the 1930's our economy was very strong and we were still lending money to many countries. Egypt lost its freedom way back around 669 BC. The pyramids were built around 2000-3000 BC. You are right that we suffered a long history of invasions but we managed to hold on. Also all the countries that invaded us robbed us and therefore grew stronger but Egypt still held on.
Egypt is not like the rest of the Middle East. I would like to believe that the nation that once built the pyramids has it in them to still be the greatest country in the world.
I agree that this sounds completely crazy given the state of Egypt. But I love my country and I am still very hopeful.
There are ways that America can help Egypt get back on its feet and create a strong ally. See my comment about the business idea of America investing money in promising businesses in Egypt. I know this might be naive because I admit to having very little business sense let alone foreign business sense but anyone who is an expert in this area should say what they think about this and if they think its feasible?
I read somewhere in a comment by someone that screw the Middle East. It would be nice to not rely on the Middle East but the US needs the resources they have, one very important one is oil. So, foreign policy is very important as far as resources and ensuring safety back home. We don't want another terrorist attack on US soil. An unstable middle east will create safe haven for those terrorists. So, Americans should absolutely care about the Middle East.
To Jim: Read the note to Brian. We were still very powerful up until the 1930's or so. What propaganda are you referring to that I am listening to? What I am following are the hopes of the activists in Egypt – is that what you are calling propaganda?
Just so you know, the propaganda in Egypt for many years is that Egypt only became a great nation after it was taken over by the Arabs. I do not. I believe the best time of our civilization was before we were first invaded in 669BC. Before that we build the pyramids in 2000-3000 BC.
After all the invasions our country went through, we still managed to hold on and continue to be a great nation and leader up until approximately the 1930's which is not too far off.
My point in saying all this, is that Egypt was not too long ago, repsectively speaking, a world leader and we can get back there. Or at least I hope we can.
As an Egyptian living in the US and following closely what is happening back home this is what I can say; The article is generally true but certain points needs some clarifications, Egypt is currently suffering from nearly complete collapse of bureaucratic institutions, the government is in near total disruption, the police force is shadowy till now, civil society forces are just starting to be formed, and the only institution that emerged from the revolution as still completely competent and unharmed was the army. With a Country of 85 millions and these conditions the Army is TRYING to control, but again and again the supreme counsel of the Armed forces insists they will relinquish their legislative power as soon as the parliament is elected (September) and they insist that they will relinquish their executive power as soon as the next president is elected (Dec-Feb). Egyptians are not naive and they are scrutinizing every move by the Supreme counsel of the Army, any wrong move by the counsel gets hammered and gets the people directly on the streets protesting
AMERICA IS A MILITARY DICTATORSHIP TOO...... THE BIGGEST MILITARY DICTATORSHIP IN THE WORLD.. and they wan't to move there corporations all around the globe......... The media act's and so do politicians, as if we have control. but deep down we know how you oppress us and we hope you pay for it after or when you die. The military industrial complex IS in charge right now of U.S.A, they donate the most to presidential candidates of there choosing and they probably caused 9/11 to sell more weapons to the world....
Since when do you fight terrorism by becoming a terrorist.. No nation that is out to protect Iraqi's would bomb them with depleted uranium. It's all a lie, wake up... Bush is an oil tycoon and a terrorist himself as I'm sure he'd suppress any technology that would rival his oil. I don't understand how individuals can own oil. it took millions of years to become oil...
To Curtis and everyone putting down the US: America is doing what's best for its own country. No one can blame Obama for that. He wants to make sure America is the best and strongest nation in the world and that is part of his job description as Fareed said. However, I wish Obama's view and America's view is that by helping the true Egyptians that want a better Egypt more than the military that it would not only benefit Egypt but it would be in the best interest of the US and the rest of the world. We won't be able to achieve a better Egypt if no one has any hope that Egypt can survive under anything but a dictatorship.
I believe that the true Egyptians are smarter than that and if given the opportunity to a fair election will elect the right president just please don't stand in our way. US and Obama should not stand in the way of us trying to achieve that by giving money to the military. That's all I want. I hope that Obama and the US don't think that a weak Egypt that begs for money is the best ally for them to have in the middle east.
Also, the western and European countries do much better than countries run by dictatorships. I completely disagree that the US is a dictatorship. Come on? Why then do most people who want a better life for their children come to the western countries and Europe? Yes there is always corruption in any government but the “civilized” nations have laws in place that help protect the people as much as possible.
What's messed up are the leaders in the middle east. They are the ones that are stupid. The only way the US knows how to deal with leaders in the middle east is by bribing them with money because their governments are so corrupt. So, yes, most likely the US is dealing with the middle east in a corrupt way but that's because the middle east is corrupt. Come on now, nobody can deny that.
The important thing is that every country in the middle east needs to do what's best for its country. We need to clean the streets from the thugs and terrorists and try to achieve a true democracy. Only at that point, will other civilized nations treat us in a civilized manner. If each country worried about making its country the best it could be then we wouldn't have this problem. But I am an idealist so may be this is not realistic. But let's start with Egypt. Let's prove to the world that Egypt can become a democratic nation that's free of corruption as much as possible. I really hope Egypt can pull it together. But, please we need the US and the rest of the world to realize that by helping the military/dictatorship in Egypt they are NOT doing what’s in the best interest of Egypt, the US or the rest of the world.
Bush is an oil tycoon?
A: No.. the USA is.
Iraq/afghan/egypt/syria/libya.. all wanted out of the USD scheme... oil? Nope, dollars. Instead they get overthrown like this.
Fareed,
Can you for a change talk about India and educate everyone on the challenges India faces like 10million girls aborted annually or the federal govt. of India blacking out all copies of the Economist magazine because it showed Kashmir as disputed.
fareed is repected journalist ..he would only write true stuff about any nation.. but for paks your doomes so stop
spreading lies son
I believe its a lie when they say America is the land of the free, that's probably why my great grandparents migrated here....
Maybe for foreigners it is.. but once you get a generation or two in.. It's the same $hit, different pile.
If America was really the land of the free most jobs would pay enough to afford rent/hydro/food/ca/insurce.... Which now a days is going for around 2000$ a month just for bills if your lucky.
America land of the overworked, under-payed and under respected.
To sarah curtis, i agree with sarah on one point that is United states of America is doing a great job in middle east and else where especially in making the world a better place to live. Even if the egypt transition to democracy is successful it would lead spread of arab uprising more intensely in other arab countries and most of the Arab countries are petro-monarchies who won't let go the control of oil supplies. thus these nations will try covertly to make egypt transition to economy very difficult .
I disagree that the United States of America's foreign policy's aim is to make the world a better place to live. I believe that most American civilians truly want the world to be a better place to live and show that through generous donations and helping others etc... I also know that the government supports those acts of kindness by giving tax benefits to help motivate its citizens to do the right thing and that is wonderful.
But let's not be naive, the government's job as far as foreign policy is to ensure good relations with the rest of the world to ensure America stays safe and powerful. One of the ways it has to do that is by dealing very nicely with dictators in the Middle East because if they don't then gas prices will go up back home. So, unfortunately, they end up supporting corrupt regimes. This is not, however, America's fault. It is the fault of the Middle Eastern leaders and governments for being so corrupt and stupid.
No one can blame America for doing what's in the best interest of its country. However, I wish they re-define that what's in the best interest of America is to stand up for true democracy in Egypt. Unfortunately, no one seems to believe that a democracy in Egypt is the best thing or even achievable at this time. I am hoping I can change those views. We have it in us to be a democratic nation. We were once the most civilized nation in the world!! Believe in us and help us and we can do it! Long live Egypt and long live the USA!
Egypt has a high percent of radicalsl. They are the most organized. If true election occur it may change from a milatery dictatorship to a Iran style tyrany. Obama, Thomas Friedman and Fareed are a bit too enthusiastic and optimistic that democracy will flourish if we just have elections. Elections may not lead to democracy just as in Iran and Germany in the 30's.
That's because as long as the military is in charge they will ensure no such thing as a "fair" election takes place. They will stand at every ballot and threaten the citizens to vote a certain way. In talking to my family in Egypt, most of them are too scared to get out of their house in fear they will get shot, mugged, raped etc... So, most of the people will be too scared to go and vote. So, Egypt needs to ensure it’s safer before election time.
Also, another worry is that the military will bribe the poor people in Egypt (which there are many – most of Egypt is under the poverty line) to vote a certain way. Or, the religious leaders will influence their followers to vote a certain way since most of the people living in Egypt are uneducated and follow only their religious leader’s advice. Or better yet, they will just falsely say that the majority voted for whoever they want as leader.
To have a fair election is difficult to do at this time in Egypt. That's why we desperately need help in the form of media coverage to put pressure on the military to start putting those thugs in jail and to start cleaning the streets from all those radicals you talk about. And, we do not need the USA giving more money aid to help the military grow stronger at this time. We need them to help Egypt get back on its feet by helping Egypt’s economy if they want to help at all.
I have a suggestion that will work well for both the US and Egypt. Why not instead of giving millions to the military, invest that money in Egypt.
This can be done if the US hires one of the foreign financial aid specialist/consultant in the US to work with an Egyptian trusted business man (like the billionaire Naguib Sawiris) and find out where the US can instead invest money in some promising businesses in Egypt. This will help boost the Egyptian economy and the US can get some money in return for the profits. Kind of like the Shark Tank show on TV but big scale (i.e. where the US is the shark and Egypt is the small business owner). I am not a business major so I don't know but it's an idea. That way the US is not just throwing money away when it's economy is suffering and that way it can help Egypt build it's very poor economy. Does anyone know if this is feasible?
Egypt has a lot of resources that are not being used properly because of the large scale corruption going on. But, Egypt has a lot to offer if being run by the right people.
Perhaps precisely because the middle spectrum was so actively involved in the Egyptian revolution, they will initially avoid winding up like Iran as well as becoming like America. I think they will find their way to a democracy. But somewhere down the road, if the middle does what they usually do ( focus entirely on their own lives ) they could easily wind up just like America (paralyzed by the extreme elements with the loudest voices) or worse, just like Iran ( a total theocracy)
I do find it amusing that many on the right in America do not recognize how similar they are to the Muslim Brotherhood. Both prefer a theocracy where they can impose their beliefs on others, and alter their "beliefs" based on the current direction of the breeze. It is amazing that so many of these people hate each other, but that is the end result of ignorance. You hate and you fear what you do not understand. You resist even bothering to try and accept and understand those who you think are different from you. It is truly ironic that these two sides hate each other. They are so much alike, they have so much in common.
When we in the vast middle focus too much on our own lives and allow these extremes to dominate the microphones we get what we deserve. It doesn't matter where in the world it happens, the extremes will always wind up destroying whatever you created, do so entirely fueled by the blind hatred that only comes from pure ignorance. I sincerely hope the Egyptian learn to avoid the mistakes of America, and especially hope they avoid what has happened to Iran.
not all those using the democratic system ... want freedom and democracy... there are groups that will hijack the process if they can .... and will do just as Hamas, Eastern European Communists, etc did.
The dominance of the Islamist wing in Egypt is overweighted because of Islamfopia, they were only popular because they were banned but once the ban was left , their true weight is subtle, and the average Egyptian reads them very right, their best ambition is to be a strong minority no more.
The military is US made, they are in control, and they are using the Isalmofopia to threaten the US that democratic transition is not in their favor , this is why they give rise to the extremists to come to the scene and start making troubles to the Copts and the Israeli embassy to prove practically to the west that if you push hard for democracy, things will go out of control, which I believe from the many comments I have seen , succeeded !
Democracy is the only protection against terrorism , because terrorism is only a by product of suppression and injustice
As for the racist animal proposition , I invite to compare your brutal cowboy heritage with Egyptian's most enlightening civilization to humanity of all times (the dawn of human conscience was born here before even you knew how to eat
If Egypt's military disintegrated and lost control, it would not make Egypt a truer democracy because Egypt will descend into anarchy and will turn into something like Somalia.
And yet the G-8, led by the USA, has just promised to give $20 Billion to Egypt (and Tunisia). So, someone explain – why do we give money to help them (especially when we are in the middle of a financial crisis)?
Did you think it would be any different? If you did I have a bridge to sell you. Stop all foreign aid to these war lords now.
This whole "Arab Spring" thing is looking more like the same old story from the Middle East and North Africa. These countries all have high birth rates and nowhere near enough jobs for everyone. The resulting unemployment and poverty will lead to perpetual unrest. No government, even a good one, can keep all these poor, uneducated people happy. The dictatorships exist because they are the only stable form of government that can control the population.
Stop all foreign aid period especially to countries that laugh at America. Take care of America and to with the foreign countries. Sooner or later American's will wake up and have enough guts to protest in a big big way, in a way which will put a stop to the screwing of America by these terrorists countries. Get America out of the middle east and get America out of Israhell and Egypt and let these countries work out thier own problems, they are not our problem.
Fareed, The US supports dictators and not democracy because it is easier to manage and manipulate a few than a lot. When it does "support" democarcy, that is because the previous dictator has done his 30-40 years and even then the dictatorial system remains in place for his replacement.
So lets not give credit to Clinton, Reagan or Obama for abandoning individual dictators, when they were falling anyway. It is abandoning dicatorships that is required, but you don't seem to favor this as it would adversely affect American economy and jobs. This is highly exaggerated as who is to blame for America's current economic problems, Wall Street and governmnet policies or oil prices.
YES: Mr. Fareed is no doubt one of the best CNN, news writers, reporters, journalists-columnists there is. However, you are perfectly correct in your posting too!! The major mainstream media is mind containment controls, owned and ran by the capitalist corporatist empire builders. And true democracy is none-existent! Real freedom of speech rights are censored and even blocked, etc. Only the brainwashing-bribing political propaganda media mechanisms of racism-sexism-fascism is always broadcast daily. Thus any voices that protest too loudly and effectively are censored by all of them collectively. But, freedom of artistic expression has far too many other mediums, forums and outlets that are unstoppable. And your words are being heard also, worldwide each time you post to the online Internet, in spite of CNN, YAHOO, BBC, FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS, or anybody else!!! Keep posting positively pretty please .....We appreciate your personal opinion. Period.
SO is The USA. Obama signed The Patriot Act re-authorization. Under the SECRET provisions contained in the REAL Law that WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO KNOW – The Country has become a Dictatorship of the Commander and Decider in Chief.
The army has been the power behind every president since the removal of Farouk. Mohamed Naguib was the figurehead
Nasser used before taking power, and since then it was the army that was given the unofficial reins of power. Anyone
who thinks or believes that the army will ever release its stronghold does not understand the dynamics of the situation.
Now they are using their old comrade Mubarak (whom they served diligently for three decades) as a scapegoat.
The bottom line is that with or without Facebook, Twitter or the Internet the poor Egyptian people will suffer and be repressed.
Master of the obvious...
I feel for the "True Egyptian's" plight but the sad fact is that once the military is out of power the muslim brotherhood will gain control. Yes that control may only be 30% percent for now but eventually it will be total control. The same thing happened in Iran after the Shaw was thrown out of power. The same thing will also happen in Libya. As for the US not supporting a democracy in the middle east well I suppose every one is correct on that since Obama isn't supporting Israel.
YES, The Awesome Forces of Mother Earth's Divine Nature and Her wrathful weather is leveling the playing fields and balancing out the battlegrounds of Calvary. She sanely brings the USA, back down to grassroots ground level zero of monetary-financial-economic naught. Intentionally and deliberately and purposely. Attacking the infrastructures of the internal land masses of America with extremely violent storms, terrifying tornado twisters, horrific hurricanes coming on the Event Horizon real soon....and that's not all folks. So the citizens shall have something at home to worry about more important = self-protection, self-defense from of oppressive offense!!! This has happened to all so called civilizations throughout ancient history and present current cataclysmic climatic changes. She literally decrees divine curses against all artless forms of SUPREMACY SUPERIORITY SUPERPOWER SICKNESS SYNDROMES!!!
I know what Zakaria was trying to say (Obama's no wizard, and can't know all the answers) but (unlike the LAST dolt we had in there) our current president WAS, in fact, a college professor. I seem to remember hearing that he taught Constitutional Law at Harvard or Columbia. Or, maybe, as that pinhead Glenn Beck says, nobody remembers Obama on campus or in the classroom. Even when he was standing at the front of the class, teaching.
Brian raises a good point. Perhaps democracy won’t work for all countries.
Perhaps some countries need a tyrant, to maintain law and order.
In order for democracy to work, the citizens—at least the majority of them—must be responsible, must have integrity, and must be trustworthy.
I believe it was Ralph Waldo Emerson who once wrote that he was walking down the road by an orchard of fruit trees. And he thought to himself, I could jump over the low stone wall and steal a piece of fruit, but I would be arrested and imprisoned; but, if everyone would jump over the wall at the same time and take a piece of fruit, they couldn’t stop us.
I sometimes wonder whether democracy has failed in the US and whether the US is becoming a failed State, due to the increasing immorality and decadence of our citizens and our elected officials, who show themselves to be given to greed and corruption, which the lobbyist gladly provide.
I believe it was Lewis Lapham who once wrote that all day long lobbyist walk through the halls of the US senate and congress in Washington, DC. The lobbyists wear $2000 suits and $750 alligator shoes. All day long they knock on the doors of our elected officials, and when our elected officials answer the door, they no longer ask them their names. they simply say: Who are you with?
Apparently this has been the practice since the administration of Ulysses S. Grant—except at the time of the Grant Administration the lobbyists would meet (in the lobby) at the hotel across the street from the Congressional Building. Today they walk right down the halls of the august and sacred building in Washington, DC, where our senators and representatives have their offices.
And I trust that asking our elected officials to outlaw this corrupting practice would be like asking the foxes to pass a law, which would prevent foxes from being able to go into the henhouse and eat the chickens.
"In order for democracy to work, the citizens—at least the majority of them—must be responsible, must have integrity, and must be trustworthy."
Your comment sir, could serve as an example in the very definition for coded speech. What an incredibily low opinion you offer of Egyptians. They do not have integrity and are not trustworthy? How much time have you spent in their country and how many Egyptians have you had close personal relationships with?
You go on to say many things that resonate of truth about our own system of government, which do speak of a knowledge of our system. I am afraid that it is likely that you spoke as though you had the same level of knowledge on Egypt, when in fact you did not. That is so very American, to be ignorant, completely ignorant but yet have an opinion formed despite that fact you lacked the knowledge to form a valid one.
But cheer up, you may however have a promising career in talk radio.
"Blast hits United Nations forces' convoy in Saida, Lebanon" ---- Move the war to Lebanon now.
It was well reported over the years and during the "revolution" that Egypt's military is the controlling power in the country. All that will change is the puppet government in front of the cameras and that will likely be Muslim Brotherhood dominated. The only other significance is that liberals like Zakaria and Obama and Clinton cling to the fantasy that a US style democracy will arise form the ashes of this revolution.
You may be right about the "fantasy" point, but if that's what it is, I don't believe it's exclusively a "liberal" (Zakaria, Obama, Clinton) one. I think we can agree that there's a whole LOT of stuff at play here, and Americans (once again), are pretty much clueless. And a few are ACTING clueless, which is better than admitting that you knew something was "behind the curtain" all along.
Yup, the military still holds a lot of the cards. "Surprise, surprise, surprise," as Gomer Pyle used to say. Guess who helped GIVE them all those cards, starting with Sadat? About three billion a year, tit for tat, what we gave the Israelis. Lotta cool toys that go boom-boom. That was "the deal," wasn't it? And gosh, all this time they've "allowed" WHAT PERCENTAGE of their population to "become" uneducated, under thirty and unemployable? WTF? Lemme guess something else: a dozen or so families controlled 99.5% of the wealth? Wee dawgies! How did THAT happen? What's that you say? They've got religious fundie NUTJOBS over THERE, too? Good Christ! Democracy, schlemocracy. Was somebody (once again) not been keeping an eye on where we were throwing our money?
Bush thought that as well in Iraq. We've got a bunch of idealists in charge.
meet the new boss, same as the old Boss!
Have they killed all of the Christians in Egypt yet?
I recently contacted some of my family in Egypt so I am happy to report that not all the Coptic Christians in Egypt are dead.
However, if the situation continues in Egypt the way it has been going most Coptic Christians will either immigrate out seeking refugee elsewhere or die under the hands of the terrorists.
Coptic Christians make up 10% of the Egyptian population. Keep in mind though that Egypt holds home to approximately 83 million. So 10% means there are approximately 8.3 million Coptic Christians living in Egypt. That's a huge number to wipe away immediately but slowly over time we will become extinct if status quo continues in Egypt or large scale massacre occurs.
Zarkaria is a front man for the Muslim Brotherhood. He isn't interested in democracy. In short, Zarkaria is a Great Deceiver.
exatly whenever i feel all the retards have left and some tool shows up lol thanks for keeping all the d bags alive around the world
I think Fareed Zakaria's comments are appropriate about the Government of Egypt now, which is why I strongly feel that any monetary aid for democracy to Egypt and other Arab states needs to be linked to a tangible measurable, specifically reducing and ultimately eliminating the rampant antisemitic propaganda against Jews and Israel in the Arab print and broadcast media, academia, and public policies of their Governments. This must be a prerequisite.
And it always will be.
I agree Mr Zakaria..General Tantawi was a buddy of Mubarak...its all a political game the army is playing to use the upraising for their own interest...disgusting...
I said it when this was all going down and it's comming true.
The people that were heading up the rebellion, the ones that insisted the dictator step down immediately, thus turning the Gov over to the military, are the ones that caused this mess. I said it when he offered a slow transition and they refused. You gave a General the keys to the country...now you want them back?
Fools, you had a chance to negotiate a UN monitored and sanctioned election and power transfer but you got drunk on power and had to show your power by forcing an immediate removal of a handful of men...nice work.
I'm stilling laughing at the countless naive idiots who thought Egypt had a successful revolution and would become a liberal democracy. Perhaps this stupidity was best seen on university campuses. The History majors yelled: "Egypt is now free!" The Political Science majors replied: "Not yet. Let's wait and see." Obviously, History majors aren't known for their ability to predict the future and should stick to studying the past.
The Arab Spring: The people don't want Western Democracy. The people want Western Freedom. There is a large difference. Yesterday, the business of Egypt was revolution. Today, the business of Egypt is business.
http://www.slideshare.net/slimfairview/the-business-of-egypt-is-business
In order for Egypt to benefit from the revolution, the Egyptian people must get back to work. Economic Development is not a dirty word concept. (The only time it seems to be used in a positive way is when discussing emerging nations. Egypt should not be considered an emerging nation. That would be patronizing.)
The Impending Failure of Western Diplomacy in the Middle East.
http://www.slideshare.net/slimfairview/the-failure-of-us-diplomacy-in-the-middle-east-30
As I said to my wife the other night. When Western nations went through this period in our history, there were a few thousand people here and there, the weapon of choice was the bow and arrow, and no Wolf Blitzer to report on the events as they unfolded.
To the Egyptian people, Bon Chance!
Regards,
Slim
This is another example of how the phony Obama term ARAB SPRING, is just a bogus public relations term, created by Obama for his self-serving political purposes. In reality, the Islamic countries are in turmoil ... they hate America ... they want worldwide sharia law ... they want a caliphate.
SAVE AMERICA ... DUMP OBAMA IN 2012 !!!
Why the hell is CNN still listening to this clown? It's become painfully obvious that he has allowed his desires to shape his perception of reality regarding virtually every event on which he has made comment. Sure, there are many people less in touch with reality than Fareed, but they just suffered a May 21 setback.
clown?? dont think think ur mama wrote this article last time i checked it was mr fareed ... but any how say hi to the air head who gave birth to a tool like you
Any news about IMF and BAD DEBT ECONOMY?!?!?
and how do we rid ourselves of the slavery imposed by religion? It permeates and stagnates every part of our life. Islam may have once been the voice of progress, but no longer. If we find the strength to get it out of our politics, our bedroom, our families, etc. – maybe we can begin to re-build our society.
Only the uninformed are surprised by this. OOOHHHH......you all thought that the "revolution" was by and for the people! ha ha.
Think about it. The revolution was engineered, not by the people but rather a more sinister entity.
As a US citizen, I really like Sarah's posts. I find them to be refreshing considering the usual hateful, poorly constructed comments that so frequently permeate these boards. As someone who finds this entire string of uprisings both inspiring and curious, and someone who is very proud (and hopeful in the honesty) of our President, I truly wish not only the Egyptians, but every other country in that area the best as they fight for their own basic human ideals of democracy and freedom. It's not our (The US) place to choose it for you, but we will always help and support a free, democratic society.
Well.... I will, anyway.
Newsflash, we don't have a true "democracy", we have a "republican" form of government, look up the difference. On another note SURPRISE! the Muslim Brotherhood has a more radical agenda than they let people know!
I was in egypt just weeks before the protests began, and one thing that struck me was the constant checkpoints- at nearly every main thoroughfare regular blockades had been set up by police, often toting automatic weapons. I never witnessed a violent event, say, an instance of police brutality, but there was always a sense that civilians were being observed by an outside force. Our guides could not deride mubarak or his administration when inside a building or car- places with possible microphones- something they explained when we were out in the open. This is something the ruling party must certainly step away from if they are to create a democratic state, instead of re-instituting the mubarak model. The people want a qualitative change in the system of government, and they will repeat Tahrir Square if need be. It's much better for the ruling party to simply carry out a slow retraction of military force on the streets, than to risk more violence.
This choir that is chanting this nonsense about "Arab Spring," are the same anti-semites and clueless enablers joining Obama in throwing Israel, the ONLY democracy in the region, under the bus.
Was anybody really expecting a secular democracy?
That talk was nonsense.
"And it’s tough. Things are not as easy as they sound. The President of the United States is not a college professor."
The President used to be a college professor.
So who is cashing the billon dollar checks in Egypt?
they Had hawaiian and native American categories? Seriously?
that's funny
"The President used to be a college professor."
WRONG! He was a "lecturer"
I love the last comment...if only peace were achieved with the pals and israelis...then america would look better...uh huh...
and what does that "peace" look like to these egyptians who have been indoctrinated to hate israelis since birth?
Egypt is going the muslim brotherhood route, is cozying up to iran and will strengthen ties with hamas. I fail to see what zakaria doesnt get in this whole mess? THERE IS NO ARAB SPRING! THAT IS A CAREFULLY CONSTRUCTED WESTERN BUZZWORD CREATED BY THIS ARAB LOVING WHITE HOUSE TO CHANGE THE GAME AND CHANGE AMERICA...that is what obama meant when he said CHANGE.
Be very careful what you wish for america....
I have a gorilla in my nose.
To Sarah and others:
As an American/Egyptian who did not have the chance in his own country to achieve his dream of high education and contribute to the scientific society. I been offered a job in 1975 as a teacher in the bally(or music institute) institute in Cairo with my BS in science and higher diploma from eiin shams univ. I decided to travel with education (work and attend univ.). Any way, After what I have seen in my country Egypt and travel from Arab country to Europe to US and lived several years in each country and follow closely the life style and the politics her is my advise from now untill election day: You have to educate the Egyptian people how to elect what the good for them regardless without involving the religion. As stalen said the religion is opium of the third world, this is very true. You should not have the 50% farmer and labor, these are followers. Strong media is a must and strong judgment system.
Though Mr Farid debate well on all religion but out of curiosity what is his religion, he looks like Indian but I don’t think he is Hindi , may be Sikh.
But what ever said, well said
There is no religion called hindi ... cos hindi is language ... and yea he is muslim belongs to mubai .. amazing personality
Well I don't think anyone can call Iran a "democracy" and that is exactly what the Muslim Brotherhood wants – all across the middle east. The people saying the Muslim Brotherhood were "not radical" were obama, his administration, and the left. The conservatives have shouted DANGER! from the beginning – only to be criticized by the left and the mainstream media (all backers of obama).
I just graduated college among 6,000 others. At least 3,000 of them were Asian, and out of 600 students receiving honors (summa, magna, and cum laude) I was one Arab among 550 Asians, Indians, Pakistanis, and other Arabs. White trash America is going down the toilet and they'll be taking Israel with them. Have a nice day!
Who didn't know this? Christians are going through the same hard time ever. Muslims and all pagans need Judeo-Christian values. Secularism is a dung to mankind; it only works with educated people with Christian heritage (except for some Asian heavy mimickers).
the only force that is stopping the christian copts from being utterly enslaved into dhimminitude and into complete destruction are hte military. How can zakaria says such rubish??!I know islam damages the human brain, rips apart basic rationality and shreds to pieces even commen sense but zakaria is just going too far.why doesn't zakaria say that the muslim-brotherhood-salafist-jihadist alliance are hte force that ARE fighting the military to enforce barbaric sharia law, more church burnings, more christian girls kidpappings,forced marriages and forced conversions to islam, as the authorities look the other way and do absolutely NOTHING!!?!?!! Zakaria..you are a dellusional FOOL!
What egypt and all the muslim world needs do do is to give a fair treatment to all citizens, muslim and non-muslim, and stop opressing wimen, non-muslims brutally under the threat of death, violence or economical and political sanctions.And becky anderson, STOP lying along with the CNN nework tha islam is a religion of peace since it is NOT, NEVER WAS AND NEVER WILL BE.
when a muslium gets the basic human right to leave islam without getting assassinated by fellow muslims, THEN and ONLY THEN maybe we can say that muslims are peaceful, but the fact is islam is NOT, NEVER WAS AND NEVER WILL BE AT PEACE with anyone since it is a totalitarian supremacist, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, christianophobc, judeophobig,paganophobic,SECULAROPHOBIC ,DEMOCRATOPHOBIC,WIMENOPHOBIC,ATHEISTOPHOBIC,AGNOSTICOPHOBIC ultra-violnet, belligerant,destructive, poisonous ideology that promotes and indeed IS PURE EVIL!
While Fareeds report on Egypt is the most logical and accurate I've read (and I've traveled thru those areas myself, although before the revolution), we still really don't know what kind of government they'll end up with. They still could end up with something worse than the military. Also, from what I observed when I visited Egypt, I don't believe the military could be overthrown if they decided to stay in power. People demonstrating impresses the media but not a serious military force like I observed everywhere in that country.
who ever remarked about that is an ignorant person, the civilian and the military are one so everything is going perfect only people which adores to make bullshit rumors like Americans,European and Israelis (Jews) which holds all international media enjoys to envy the Egyptians and the Arab worlds, even the Americans as they say we are a democracy country they don't even apply it for them it's only word to say in front of the world. So see who is talking?????
People seem to think democracy is going to spread through the middle east, I think it won't dictators will be replaced thats all. Most current dictators are linked to foreign powers e.g Saudi King is linked to US, Tunisia use to be linked to France, Libya to Italy, Algeria is linked to France..... You honestly think these countries will let their puppets leave without having alternatives.
Egyptian male..you are a disastrous example of everything that os WRONG and EVIL to the backbone..tanks to islam, the most demented, insane,irrational, sel-destructive and totally repulsive and abominable ideology all made out of inorance, fear, stupidity, blind hatred and braindead and abrainwashed imbecility. You are a traitor and a parasite to yourself and to makind.you can take islam and shoive it up your rectum..that is the only useful purpose for islam..idiot..retard!!
we know the military and the muslim majority are one, along with the repulsive muslim-brotherhood, salafist, mujaheed-jihadist alliance..so you are just confirming my claim that fareed zakaria is an idiot which I agree- even so inside the egyptian army there are still some reasonable people who know the islamists using democray to get to power will start a war on israel, and as per conseqyuence egypt will be totally destroued. those are the intelligent official inside that stinking muslim sh&&thole. the muslim brotherhood will inforce sharia that awill obliterate the coptic christians, the true one and only egyptians and democracy altogether all along.
One more thing egyptian male..you are not an egyptian abut an arabised prostitute.only the copts are egyptians, speak egyptian, walk egyptian and think egptian..all muslims from that stinking sh-&&thole are foreigners and should leave islam so that they cna recover their own cultural and civilizational identity that is definitely NOT arabic, a foreign parasitical disease that has been destroying egypt and egyptians for far too long. HOOO!!..Have i "hurted your muslim feelings"...(of wife-beating animals, mass-murderers and suicide bombers)?..here's the solution..shove islam, false prophet muhammad and his impotent pet allah up your rectum and problem solved!!
Muslims this is a time to open your eyes, if USA is that much worry then why they dont help Zimbabwe people and why the dont do D / attacks on Somalia pirates all africa is full of problems but USA or others the can not see that ?
very educative
So at last it is clearly said: all the hoopla was about democracy, and people power, but really its was just a cleverly handled soft coup within the ruling and wealthy military class.
I wonder why CNN and fareed zakaria or becky anderson don't report this??..FEAR of reprisals from bullying thugs-muslims.stupidity, cowardice and politically correctness-sold out to islamofascism speaks louder..and the oil..the stupid stupid oil addiction when we don't even need; that poison that fuels the global jihad and the destruction and enslavement of the west into dhiminnitude :
Algerian Christian gets five years in jail for "blasphemy"
This story helps to demonstrate why "blasphemy" laws and other legislation curtailing free speech to shield Islam from insults and "provocations" (real or imagined) must be resisted: "While Algeria professes that it upholds religious freedom, it also embraces a blasphemy law that, by its very nature, can be used to prosecute anyone who does not adhere to the religion of Islam."
At the end of the day, merely expressing a belief at variance with Islam is "blasphemy," and the fact that one could have the gall to think such thoughts and admit to them out loud could be construed as "insulting." That is what has happened to Siagh Krimo. "Algerian Christian Given Five Year Prison Sentence for Blasphemy," from International Christian Concern, May 27:
Washington - International Christian Concern (ICC) has learned that an Algerian Christian was sentenced to five years imprisonment for blasphemy in Oran on Wednesday after sharing his Christian faith with a neighbor. The verdict came days after authorities forced the permanent closure of seven Protestant churches in Algeria's Béjaia province.
Siagh Krimo was charged by the Criminal Court of the Djamel District in Oran, who based their decision on Article 144 bis 2 of the Penal Code which criminalizes acts that "insult the prophet and any of the messengers of God, or denigrate the creed and precepts of Islam, whether by writing, drawing, declaration, or any other means." Krimo has ten days to appeal the sentence.
Krimo, who is married with a nine month old child, was arrested on April 14, along with another Christian, Sofiane, after sharing his Christian faith with a neighbor. Sofiane was released soon after the arrest, while Krimo was detained for three days. Krimo was known to hold weekly prayer services at his home, which Algerian Christians suspect were being closely monitored by the police.
The prosecutor at Krimo's trial, held on May 4, failed to present as a witness the neighbor who accused Krimo of proselytizing and making defamatory statements against the Muslim prophet Mohammad. Algerian Christians were hopeful that Krimo would be acquitted of all charges. "Good news, the judge, after having invited Krimo to use wisdom and return to Islam, has ended the affair," an Algerian church leader in Tizi Ouzou told ICC on May 4. "We hope this will end well."
The previous paragraph suggests Krimo left Islam for Christianity, though it is not stated elsewhere. In that case, he would also run the risk of being killed for apostasy from Islam, according to Muhammad's own orders.
The prosecutor, doubtful he would win the case on so little evidence, reportedly asked the judge to have Krimo's sentence reduced to a two year imprisonment and a fine of 50,000 Algerian dinar. However, some believe that higher authorities in the Algerian government were involved in reaching the final decision. "The judge would have normally acquitted Krimo of all charges, but I think he received an order from his superiors to strike hard," said an Algerian representative of the Association of Protestant Churches (EPA).
Krimo's sentence follows an order received by the EPA on May 22 to close seven Protestant churches in the province of Béjaia. The notice stated the churches are to be closed in accordance with Ordinance 06-03, which requires churches to obtain government permission to hold services. Though the EPA has made efforts to comply with the ordinance, the Ministry of Interior and the Ministry of Religious Affairs have refused to register churches or to approve permits quickly.
Aidan Clay, ICC Regional Manager for the Middle East, said, "Algerian Christians have been under attack in recent weeks as laws have been increasingly enforced to discriminate against them. Earlier this week, seven churches in Béjaia were ordered to close. Now, an Algerian Christian is on the verge of being unjustly imprisoned for accusations of criticizing Islam. While Algeria professes that it upholds religious freedom, it also embraces a blasphemy law that, by its very nature, can be used to prosecute anyone who does not adhere to the religion of Islam. We urge Algeria to acquit Siagh of all charges and repeal Article 144 bis 2 of the Penal Code."
hey zakaria..learn with the master robert spencer and stop peing a pawn serving the global jihad while pretending ther is nom such thing and that islam is a religion of peace when it is the miost evil, ruthless supremacist ideology ever to attack mankind like the black plague of the last 2 millenia:
Egyptian military "playing both sides" between "extremists" and non-Muslims
The Egyptian military is seeking to maintain stability through the path of least resistance, hoping to maintain the status-quo, more or less, by pursuing a policy of steam-control. In practice, the military's actions amount a process of establishing conditions for an arrangement with the Muslim Brotherhood, which is in the best position to take power after jumping through a few procedural hoops for outside consumption, like the "constitutional reforms" that were ramrodded through a hasty referendum a few weeks ago.
The military had an incentive to rebuild the church in Imbaba in order to place a sort of "speed bump" in the path of the Salafist juggernaut. And where there is one step forward in Imbaba, there are other steps back, like those detailed below, and the cancellation of an expatriate Egyptian Christian's citizenship on the grounds that he "insulted Islam" and "showed allegiance to Judaism."
"In Imbaba, army restores Coptic church torched by Salafis," May 27:
Cairo (AsiaNews) – Egypt’s ruling military council is paying for the reconstruction of St Mary’s Coptic Church in Imbaba (Cairo), which was destroyed during clashes between Salafis and Christians on 8 May. Eight people died and 116 were wounded during the incident. However, sources told AsiaNews that the army was itself involved in the original violence. In fact, soldiers tend to do nothing to prevent clashes and allow the culprits to go free.
In the past few days, artisans have been working on the Church roof. The original structure was destroyed by fire. They are also trying to repair damaged frescoes and paintings. Everything should be completed within three months.
Church sources told AsiaNews that what the military is doing is a positive sign that can help avoid more sectarian clashes. However, there are still lingering doubts about the army’s good faith.
“The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces is acting like Pontius Pilate,” other Christian sources said. “On the one hand, they are giving a free rein to Muslim extremists; on the other, they are promoting reconciliation by rebuilding destroyed buildings.”
A call for another ‘day of rage’ today in Tahrir Square is raising more suspicions. Small secular groups issue the announcement in order to demand a new constitution and more security in the streets.
For their part, many Christians are afraid that they might suffer more discrimination and restrictions at the hands of Muslims.
Also known as dhimmitude, under Sharia law.
“Inside the government, no one is strong enough to oppose the Muslim Brotherhood and extremist groups,” one said.
For instance, in Ain Sheim, a neighbourhood in southern Cairo, Muslims reiterated their opposition to the reopening of the St Abraham Coptic Church, scene of sectarian violence on 19 May.
Muslim leaders took the decision during a meeting with the local Christian community that was deserted by the military.
On their own initiative, local Muslim authorities signed a decree that imposes the indefinite closure of the church and bans Copts from conducting any religious celebration.
Their supporters surrounded the church and hurled stones at the Copts, and at the church.
here we go again one more d bag retard is back with his hatefull messeges ... did you even read the whole article??
moron
I did read the whole article and I also read zakaria's books and many other articles..he is a muslim and a stealth jihadist..very inteligent but he has an agenda-promoting islam. He is no democrat or westerner or else he would be denouncing the source of the problem that is ISLAM itself you idiot. Go to school and take zakaria with you.do8cheb*g!
i never ever seen or read anything where is trying pump up islam .. so what if he is muslim .. thats aint mean anything ...
so if you are jewish or christian that means you are trying to promote your relgion?? yea just finishing high school and working at mcdonals or wal mart doesnt mean you are educated you fool ...
I am not muslim or american thank God .. i am canadian .. wonder your ars wholes are hated around the world ... christians have killed more pple then anything other religion since bigning .. so calm down go shove some thing cold up ur arss .. your are just jealous he is east indian and probly makes more money in your country then your whole family lol
"Egypt is still run by a military dictatorship"
So Is The US......!
I'm a political scientist (retired), expert in authoritarian politics and revolutions, though not on Egypt, as such. However, I've been following Egypt closely since Jan. 25, reading back in time as well.
I'm very pleased with Zakaria's piece. Finally, somebody is making sense.
I am, however, far more pessimistic about the outcome. I think it will be illiberal for sure.
First, Zakaria criticizes the 30% prediction for the Brotherhood. I couldn' agree more. They will overwhelm the outcome. The signs are very clear. they backed the constiutional amendments in the referendum, and the outcome was 78%, I believe. They have become more and more demading over time, I'm sure, because they sense their strength.. The liberal forces have shown they don't have a strong social following outside the urban educated groups and the Copts.
Furthermore, and no one has pointed this out, there is clearly a tacit understanding, perhaps even explicit, between he Brotherhood and the military. As between the youth groups and the Brotherhood, the military favors the latter.And the Brotherhood, once in power, is quite capable of making a pact with the military for mutual support.
Finally, Zakaria mentions three possible paths, those of Pakistan, Indonesia, and Turkey. We would all prefer for Egypt to follow Turkey's. Even here, the Turkish path is problematic, with respect to freedom of the press, it is seriously lacking, as many journalists in Turkey will attest. And, concerning Egypt, it took Turkey almost seven decades to arrive where it's at, And where will the external pressure to advance to a more democratic system come from in Egypt, for there is no equivalent of the European Union?
All in all, Egypt will be, in all likelihood, a quasi-Islamic, pseudo-democratic, military co-dominant, illiberal state.
My understanding is that they serve camel sh!!t on toast after the revolution . Enjoy! Mubarak was better than Jesus compared, with more than only fish and bread. Egyptians : do not worry, brotherhood Obama will soon flood the Nile with rice fields. Yea. Time to eat what you sow and you know what it is. Right?. If you cannot digest that the Muslim Brotherhood will fix your problem. They always advocate perpetual ramadan. Good for Egyptians' pathetic souls.
ason canada..you come from a disastrous nation of multicultural rubish that is totally infected by islamic supremacism. right now in canada if any one dares to criticise islam might lose his job and even be arrested for the "crime" od using their freedom of speech. Islam is abominable you idiot, but since you, along with zakaria refuse to go to school, here comes some basic schooling for your sorry a"zz you stup+d r't'ard:
Islam has the world's record of genocide. Its victims, over more than
1,350 years, number in the hundreds of millions, many more than the
victims of the Holocaust and World Communism combined. Muslim genocide is
still ongoing in the Sudan, Ivory Cost. Mauritania, Somalia, the
Philippines, Indonesia, and, to a lesser extent in other Muslim countries.
"The massacres perpetuated by Muslims in India are unparalleled in
history, bigger than the Holocaust of the Jews by the Nazis; or the
massacre of the Armenians by the Turks; more extensive even than the
slaughter of the South American native populations by the invading Spanish
and Portuguese." – Francois Gautier
More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the
Spanish Inquisition combined. Islamic terrorists murder more people every
day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years.
"A Muslim apostate once suggested to me a litmus test for Westerners who
believe that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance: try making that
point on a street corner in Ramallah, or Riyadh, or Islamabad, or anywhere
in the Muslim world. He assured me you wouldn't live five minutes."
Islam is at perpetual war with the non-Islamic world (the Qur'an 4:76,
60:4). Muslims must hate
the non-Muslims, humiliate them, distrust them, deceive them at every
opportunity, and kill them when the situation is appropriate. This is the
stipulation of the central doctrine of Islam. A Muslim who does not
emulate this cardinal premise of Islam is not a Muslim at all.
Killing, assassination, terrorism and bloodshed are the DNA codes of
Islam. Even if the whole world converts to Islam, the true Muslims will
continue perpetrating bloodshed. If they don't get the blood of infidels,
they kill one another. This is the legacy of 1400 years of Islamic rule.
The best example is Pakistan or Iraq where 97% of the population is
Muslim, yet there is bloodshed of Muslims by Muslims. A Pakistani suicide
bomber killed at least fifty Muslims (worshippers) while they were praying
in a mosque on the occasion of Eid-ul-Azha. This is the stark proof that
violence and killing are inseparable from Islam.
Terrified, many non-Muslims often ask: what do the Islamist terrorists
want? They want to convert the entire world into an Islamic Paradise.
There is no surprise in this. During his days, Muhammad had asked the
Muslims to terrorize the world until Islam rules supreme (Quran 3:85, 5:3,
5:33). Qur'an exhorts the Muslims to keep fighting (with swords, not
spiritually) until they perfect the world through Islamic purification and
domination (Qur'an 9:5, 9:29, and 9:33). In
reality, it means imposing on the non-Muslims (or the non-Arabs) the
Arabic and Bedouin culture (also known as Islam) by force, murder and
terrorism.
We must recognize that the real enemy is not the terrorists. Rather, it is
Islam.
"Christians believe that "love conquers all." Well, love does not conquer
Islam." – Bill Warner
"Just as cancer cannot be reformed... Islam can't be reformed either and
it must be eradicated for the world to be saved." – Ali Sina
"The object of jihad is to bring the whole world under Islamic law...In an
Islamic state, there is in principle no law other than the shar'ia, the
Holy Law of Islam...The idea that any group of persons, any kind of
activities, or any part of human life is in any sense outside the scope of
religious law and jurisdiction is alien to Muslim thought." – Bernard
Lewis
"Apologizing to the Muslims for the Crusades is a complete betrayal to the
Crusaders who sacrificed their lives to stop Muslim invasion." – Galadriel
(anonymous evangelical Christian)
BeetRoot
More basic world history 101 schooling lessons for dellusional wimps like jason canada and stealth jihadist zakaria:
The term “human being” has no meaning inside of Islam. There is no such
thing as humanity, only the duality of the believer and unbeliever. Look at the
ethical statements found in the Hadith. A Muslim should not lie, cheat, kill or
steal from other Muslims. But a Muslim may lie, deceive or kill an unbeliever if
it advances Islam.
There is no such thing as a universal statement of ethics in Islam. Muslims are
to be treated one way and unbelievers another way. The closest Islam comes to a
universal statement of ethics is that the entire world must submit to Islam.
After Mohammed became a prophet, he never treated an unbeliever the same as a
Muslim. Islam denies the truth of the Golden Rule.
By the way, this dualistic ethic is the basis for jihad. The ethical system sets
up the unbeliever as less than human and therefore, it is easy to kill, harm or
deceive the unbeliever.
Now mind you, unbelievers have frequently failed at applying the Golden Rule,
but we can be judged and condemned on its basis. We do fall short, but it is our
ideal.
There have been other dualistic cultures. The KKK comes to mind. But the KKK is
a simplistic dualism. The KKK member hates all black people at all times; there
is only one choice. This is very straightforward and easy to see.
The dualism of Islam is more deceitful and offers two choices on how to treat
the unbeliever. The unbeliever can be treated nicely, in the same way a farmer
treats his cattle well. So Islam can be “nice”, but in no case is the unbeliever
a “brother” or a friend. In fact, there are some 14 verses of the Koran that are
emphatic—a Muslim is never a friend to the unbeliever. A Muslim may be
“friendly,” but he is never an actual friend. And the degree to which a Muslim
is actually a true friend is the degree to which he is not a Muslim, but a
hypocrite.
Non-political Islam is religious Islam. Religious Islam is what a Muslim
does to avoid Hell and go to Paradise. These are the Five Pillars—prayer,
charity to Muslims, pilgrimage to Mecca, fasting and declaring Mohammed to be
the final prophet.
But the Trilogy is clear about the doctrine. At least 75% of the Sira (life of
Mohammed) is about jihad. About 67% of the Koran written in Mecca is about the
unbelievers, or politics. Of the Koran of Medina, 51% is devoted to the
unbelievers. About 20% of Bukhari’s Hadith is about jihad and politics. Religion
is the smallest part of Islamic foundational texts.
Political Islam’s most famous duality is the division of the world into
believers, dar al Islam, and unbelievers, dar al harb. The largest part of the
Trilogy relates to treatment of the unbelievers, kafirs. Even Hell is political.
There are 146 references to Hell in the Koran. Only 6% of those in Hell are
there for moral failings—murder, theft, etc. The other 94% of the reasons for
being in Hell are for the intellectual sin of disagreeing with Mohammed, a
political crime. Hence, Islamic Hell is a political prison for those who speak
against Islam.
Mohammed preached his religion for 13 years and garnered only 150 followers. But
when he turned to politics and war, in 10 years time he became the first ruler
of Arabia by averaging an event of violence every 7 weeks for 9 years. His
success did not come as a religious leader, but as a political leader.
In short, political Islam defines how the unbelievers are to be dealt with and
treated.
Warner: The history of political Islam starts with Mohammed’s immigration to
Medina. From that point on, Islam’s appeal to the world has always had the
dualistic option of joining a glorious religion or being the subject of
political pressure and violence. After the immigration to Medina, Islam became
violent when persuasion failed. Jihad entered the world.
After Mohammed’s death, Abu Bakr, the second caliph, settled the theological
arguments of those who wished to leave Islam with the political action of death
by the sword. The jihad of Umar (the second caliph, a pope-king) exploded into
the world of the unbelievers. Jihad destroyed a Christian Middle East and a
Christian North Africa. Soon it was the fate of the Persian Zoroastrian and the
Hindu to be the victims of jihad. The history of political Islam is the
destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North Africa.
Half of Christianity was lost. Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part
of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were
slaughtered during the jihadic conquest.
Half of the glorious Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus
killed.
The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander the Great’s
army in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk
route. About 10 million Buddhists died. The conquest of Buddhism is the
practical result of pacifism.
Zoarasterianism was eliminated from Persia.
The Jews became permanent dhimmis throughout Islam.
In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1400
years of jihad.
Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the
glory of political Islam. These are the Tears of Jihad which are not taught in
any school.
Very nice article – thank-you Mr. Zakaria for your efforts. One comment, though:
"What I was struck by is how the U.S. has gotten no credit for helping in the ousting of Mubarak, which is I think quite unfair." Really? I'm not "struck" by this at all. Kudos to Obama (from a Conservative) for handling the situation extremely well, but do you honestly think Egyptians would credit the US for any of this? First, we're certainly not well liked, partly for good reason, in this region. Second, what did we actually do aside from keeping out of it and NOT supporting Mubarek? Not that we should have done more (thank-you Pres.), but we should also not expect any credit.
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I find it rather difficult to take anything Fareed Zakaria says too seriously after he invited the conservative airhead Ann Coulter to his show last week.
Yes there should realize the opportunity to RSS commentary, quite simply, CMS is another on the blog.
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