Here's a transcript of my conversation with Eliot Spitzer Thursday about Prime Minister Netanyahu's speech to Congress:
Eliot Spitzer: You wrote an article in today's Washington Post and to say it is critical of Prime Minister Netanyahu is perhaps an understatement. You say he will be a "comma in history". That's pretty harsh criticism. What do you mean by that?
Fareed Zakaria: I mean that what Netanyahu has revealed is that he really is not interested in a two-state solution. He's not interested in getting any kind of deal. At the end of the day, there's going to be a deal.
Everyone understands what the parameters of it are. The Palestinians are in many ways screwed up. The Israelis in many ways are screwed up. But we know what it's going to look like. It's going to look roughly like the deal Bill Clinton put together in 2000 - land for peace.
And Netanyahu just always finds some way that there is a problem. When the Palestinians were divided, he said he couldn't negotiate with them because they were divided. Then they unified. He said, "I can't negotiate with you because you're united."
When President Obama makes a tiny modification - not even clearly a modification to a stated U.S. policy - he says, I can't negotiate because of that. And what that means is ultimately history is going to pass him by.
Let's drill down on this a little bit - the issue of whether or not there was any change in U.S. policy. Look, I don't see one but the critical phrasing was the '1967 borders, with agreed upon swaps' as what you referred to the foundation for land for peace. Do you view those words as being a change in either U.S. policy or what Israel understood U.S. policy to be?
It can't be because if you look at the statements made by every Israeli and American statesman over the last 10 years, including George W. Bush, including a joint statement between Hillary Clinton and Netanyahu, they make references to the '67 borders.
Now, you could say that this was the first time a U.S. president in a speech made this kind of statement. But frankly, this is the kind of Jesuitical distinction without a difference.
Everyone knows the basic issue is you're starting with the '67 borders. The Israelis give back most of it. They keep some of it. In return, they swap some land to the Palestinians.
All right. Let me take Netanyahu's side here for a moment even though you know I agree with everything you just said.
He would say that when there was a peace accord on the table in 2000 - Bill Clinton's proposal - Arafat said no. And since then, the Palestinians themselves have taken every opportunity to reject peace. When they got Gaza back, they used Gaza and have continued to use Gaza as a launching pad for missiles. So why should we now give them more land back?
Look, there may be an argument for not doing the deal at all. That's a separate issue. But the contours of the deal is what we're talking about. The Palestinians, as I said, the Palestinians and Abba Eban's famous phrase have "never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity." And they've done it in many different ways. To my mind, the Palestinians right now have been pretty responsible.
I hold no grief for the Palestinians. My basic position, Eliot, is that the Israelis are in a stronger position. They are more secure. They're the strongest country in the Middle East by most measures. They have the strongest economy. They have the strongest military. They have 250 nuclear weapons. It is worth then taking some risks for peace to get this albatross off their backs.
Let me push back on a couple little points, though. You have Fatah, the Palestinian Authority, now entering into this unity agreement with Hamas. Hamas is by everybody's understanding a terrorist organization. Is it irrational for the Israeli leadership to say you can't expect us to negotiate with them?
Look, President Obama said as much. He said you can't negotiate with them. So what should Hamas do right now? What should Fatah or what should Abbas do - the leader of the Palestinian Authority - right now to eliminate that excuse that the Israelis can very legitimately invoke not to negotiate?
Look, the IRA was committed to terrorism while the British government was negotiating. The Basque separatists were committed to terrorism while the Spanish government negotiated with them. The Kurdish terrorists were committed to it while the Turkish government negotiated with them.
I don't say that there's nothing to this problem but this is part of what happens when you a group that has been in their view struggling for national liberation and your view a terrorist organization and getting them over that bridge where they renounced violence and renounced terrorism and accepted a deal is a complicated one.
I don't know that there is a cookie cutter formula that says you have to do it this way. The goal is to get to a two-state solution. And I think if the Israelis and Prime Minister Netanyahu were being creative about that, you can find ways to have private, off-camera conversations about this.
I agree with everything you have just said. I think that Prime Minister Netanyahu should have learned how to declare victory. The speech that President Obama gave was so powerful in support of critical issues that are essential to Israel's security from the point about Hamas, as it related to going to the U.N. this September, as it related to the issue of right of return.
Everybody knows that Palestinian refugees will not be permitted to return and overwhelm the state of Israel. Prime Minister Netanyahu should have declared victory and said, "We are with you, we will walk with you towards peace." He would have looked good.
Having said that, his poll numbers back in Israel have gone through the roof - way, way up since he gave that speech in Congress. He's playing to his domestic electorate and maybe that is part of this.
So, Fareed, time runs out but as always your wisdom on this is appreciated and we all learn from you.
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If a man cannot negotiate because of some tiny shift in the status quo, he might feel better suited to isolation. This might be the reason Fareed said Netanyahu will not be remembered; his actions do not merit history as much as deny it is happening. Ideally, this is a conservative outlook, but it is clearly obsessive. Netanyahu may be trying to eliminate himself from the picture by melding himself with the Pakistani populous than focus on his own dignity as a politician. In the end, what is a politician without his pride? (I use the masculine term very loosely)
Nethanyahu's words were hollow and one didn't have to be studpid to make a chauvinist out of him. He sees the conflicht with a short range scope and has a short sighted view of the peace settlement. He doesn't care about the bad press he gets abroad, as long as the polls at home show his popularity at all time high.
"He sees the conflicht with a short range scope and has a short sighted view of the peace settlement. He doesn't care about the bad press he gets abroad,"
I agree. This irritating man doesn´t care about the bad press he gets abroad. Instead, he cares about keeping the Jewish state strong and able to defend itself against murderous enemies, who dont even pretend to be intrested in anything less than "pushing the Jews into the sea", that is – completely destroying Israel and physically exterminating its Jewish population. However, this reflects the opinion and the political will of most Israelis. However much you may dislike it, they prefer to stay alive and get bad press abroad to getting "pushed into the sea" in a Holocaust remake and obtaining a lot of sympathetic comments.
Mo, what is it that makes the "Jewish State" strong? America. We are getting pretty sick and tired of this situation, and if there isn't some progress, I say we withdraw our support. Why should we put up with all the trouble and disrespect? What is OUR interest in this conflict?
In this case, the man [Netanyahu] can not negotiate because HE HAS NO ONE TO NEGOTIATE WITH.
If you disagree please NAME the Palestinian partner(s) ABLE AND WILLING stop violence, recognize Israel and NEGOTIATE a peace agreement. While you are at it please explain the reasons these partner(s) DID NOT stop violence and DID NOT recognize Israel yet to make negotiations possible.
Negotiation with a precondition is not a negotiation at all. If the people of Israel want land then the government will avoid peace talks, as they did in the last 60 years. If peace is more important to them then there will be a regime change. Time will tell.
rokon: Negotiation with a precondition is not a negotiation at all.
This is exactly the reason Israel was (and is) offering the Palestinians and other Arabs negotiations WITHOUT any preconditions, genuis. Unfortunately, as long as there is NO ONE on the Palestinian side ABLE AND WILLING to do the same negotiations will not be possible.
Is this the "they are not unified" excuse? Which has now become the "they ARE unified" excuse. I think you have a simplistic view of negotiations in a complex situation. Or you have just picked a side, are being stubborn, and aren't going to be satisfied with any negotiated solution.
As an American, I'm sick and tired of this situation, and I am fed up with the disrespect being shown towards our President and our nation. We don't need Israel, Israel needs us. It is time for them to move forward, or we stop supporting them.
I would like to ask Fareed one question that is similar to what Israel and Palestine issue is about – two nation theory. The phrase is very historic when it comes to India and Pakistan. The avid supporters of Pakistan got what they wanted a separate nation. However how come they is still conflict between the two nations. A very basic question. The deal wen through and both parties seem to be ok with the solution when it was proposed but Pakistanis to this day do not recognize India as a nation. They inherently think they need to be the rulers of the entire subcontinent. Why is that they still feel so even after getting a separate nation?
Pakistan recognizes India and have diplomatic relations. What they and the United Nations resolutions do not recognize is India's occupation of Kashmir. There was to be a referundum by the inhabitants of Kashmir un the auspices of UN in 1948. India has never allowed such a referundum. Instead it has a force of 750000 troups to control a population of under 2 million.
It is just the opposite. Indians did not wanted their "Bharat Mata" to be divided. They still believe that one day " Bharat Mata" will be whole again. The middle east situation is completely different.
If Netenyahu is a comma then what does that make Fareed? Oh yeah, another biased CNN reporter.
Not one poster, nor Farid or Elliot Spitzer gets it – Bibi will not ever allow one more drop of jewish blood to be spilled firstly – Secondly, lets talk about the truth – Why Israel will never ever sit down with these Palestinians and negotiate – it will never happen – why ? Because originally, Israel was given all of the land from the river to the sea, and the Palestinians (a non existent people until 1964) were to join their Jordanian (also a non existent people until 1922) brothers in Jordan – thanks to jewish hatredd, and love of oil, the British did a nasty back flip, and to this day will not admit that it was Britian's conniving deal with the arabs – that allowed the Palestinians to push for land in Judea and Samaria, and then all arab forces attacked the young jewish state and lost the war – then again in 1967 and then again in 1973. If Farid Zakaria and Elliot (the jewish guy – who should know better) Spitzer, ever studied history honestly, and correctly, they would be urging these non people (Palestinians) to move to Jordan – where they belong, and further urge these Pals to stop their illegal occupation of jewish lands. But, it easier to pick on the jews than to take on Britain for the mess they caused isn't it ?
Sorry for bursting your bubble but Netanyahu or any one of his successors will GLADLY SIT DOWN with the Palestinians to negotiate a peace agreement. All Palestinians have to do is to stop violence, recognize Israel and ask for peace negotiations.
RE: Why Israel will never ever sit down with these Palestinians and negotiate – it will never happen –
I'm OK with that. Just don't expect me or my country (America) to be involved. They (Israel) can go on a suicide crusade if they want to, just don't expect any support. If they do want American support, they can stop giving us the lip and start negotiating pronto.
The statement by the senior Jewish research fellow that Jewish ties to the Temple Mount will bring peace to the Middle East is right on target according to Bible prophecy.
Dr. Max Singer, the founder and senior fellow at the Hudson Institute, believes that if Jewish ties are restored to the Temple Mount and Jerusalem, there will be peace in the Middle East. Bible prophecy reveals that Dr. Singer is correct in the final outcome in the end of time scenario written by ancient Jewish prophets 2500 years ago. The prophet Samuel wrote in II Samuel 7 that one of King David's descendants would rule the world from a Jewish Temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, that descendant will be Jesus Christ, the Jewish Messiah. Isaiah wrote that when the Temple, the house of the Lord, will be established in Jerusalem, nations would turn their military weapons into farming equipment and they would learn of war no more, thus peace in the world, Isaiah 2:1-4.
As the quest for peace in the Middle East continues, all must agree with the Bible, Jewish ties to the Temple Mount will indeed bring about peace.
There are strange people who believe in strange things. The rest of us live in the REAL WORLD.
I would look at it a little different; The real world is comprised of strange things....This is precisely the context of the real world...
You are much too generous, Thinker. People who use "bible prophecy" as a magical guide to foreign relations are dangerous, if they have any real influence. Unfortunately, we (America) have a significant minority of these nuts who are being manipulated in the political process. Israel also has this problem, and so do the Palestinians. These are the world's trouble makers.
Christian Nation – Jewish State – Islamic Republic : All BS troublemakers.
fareed please tell spitzer to drop the act .you really are brave ..i didn't know you have it .congress men and women shuold be ashamed of them selves for the stand ovations .it's amazing how they protect israel's intrest more than america's intrest ..how much power they have over our politicians .america's long intrest in mid east is young democracy and arab oil through good diplomacy clinton style not bush and give the palestinians their land back .
forest: it's amazing how they protect israel's intrest more than america's intrest...
It's not THAT amazing if you consider that the alternative of protecting Israel's interests is protecting the interests of HAMAS, Islamic Jihad, Al Qaeda and similar organizations.
Hamas is not a "global terrorist organization" like Al Quida. They are like the IRA. They have no interest in bombing NY subways. They want a nation-state. You need to move beyond the "global clash of civilizations" BS. It isn't real.
Well there Mr. Gump, Let me "splain a few things to you". First of all, to say that Israelis have power over our congreessmen and women is pure anti semitic crap. America has far more in common with Jewish Israel than it does with the Muslim Middle East. We support Israel because it is the right thing to do. You and those who think like you would just as soon we feed the jews to the wolves and let them be devoured so that way the arabs will like us and sell us oil more cheaply, right????? The only war mongers are your buddies in Hamas, the ones who shoot rockets at school buses. You and those who think like you are a minority in this country. Why don't you go to Europe where you can be more at home with "your kind"
RE: We support Israel because it is the right thing to do
The right thing to do is to move, quickly, towards a solution that has some chance of establishing a stable existence and that recognizes all human rights and avoids a humanitarian disaster. We don't have that now, and it isn't getting better. Other than that, we (Americans) have no material interest in Israel, as you have made apparent by not mentioning one. Americans have MUCH in common with the Muslim Palestinians, as well as the Jewish population. We are all human beings. That's where it starts and where it ends.
First, it's a bit funny to read this kind of discussion where both participants 100% agree.
Second – your choice of language is misleading. All these "everyone knows what the soution is" (compare: did you stop beating your wife when drinking?) as well as "give land back" (back to whom? Who it was taken from?)
And third, when big majority of your congressmen as well big majority of israelies agree with these messages, well, maybe you should read and think about them a bit more carefully... It's not uncommon for journalists to make big mistakes about who will be a comma in history, and of history in general...
Sta,
you are an idiot.
Adam,
It seems that calling others idiots is the most convincing argument you can produce. It's a pity but all of us have our own limitations...
"all you can do is call people stupid! what a great way to argue! dumbass"
^ you realize you calling him out on that is tantamount to the exact same thing- trying to discredit him through a personal attack on his mental prowess (incase you can't follow, his was calling someone an idiot. Yours was an more convoluted attempt at calling him an idiot for calling someone an idiot)
Fareed, I heard Netanyahu's speech and I did not read into it what you did. First, It was not Israel who started all the wars with their neighbors. Secondly, the Palestinians could have a state alongside Israel as far back as 1948. They rejected that deal as well as another in 2000. Not only did they refuse even to negotiate but both times they started murdering Israelis(mostly women and children) which of course led to more wars. Eventually Israel returned Gaza, which the Palestinians then use to bombard Israeli settlements(mostly Israeli schools).
Yet you think Israel should give up even more land despite the fact that Hamas still rules in Gaza and that the Palestinians have shown they can not even rule themselves, never mind their own state. Any more land given up by Israel would likely be used as a nest for more terrorist attacks. Further I do not see the Palestinians offering any concessions. They simply disagree no matter what is offered them. I hope you took Elliot Spitzer's comments to task. Israeli leaders don't care about their "commas". They will continue to protect their people as best they can.
Donna It is ignorant idiots like you who know nothing about the middle east that Netanyahu was trying to brainwash. It was Israel that always started to all the wars in the middle east to steal more and more muslim land. It is the 6 million Jews in America that always present ignorant Americans with Israeli propaganda lies and it it the 6 million Jews in America that made sure ignorant American like you never see the mass murders and Genocide Israeli is committing in Gaza and West Bank. Before you open your stupid ignorant mount about topics you know nothing about read a history book.
Pinar, when I see foolish comments like yours I begin to understand why the Palestinians are in such a mess. I don't doubt that you were taught this nonsense, but history won't change just because you want it to.
"Before you open your stupid ignorant mount about topics"
Sir,
using your own vocabulary and your own debating style – please shut you stupid, filthy trap the hell up. If you are not civilized enough to refrain from vervally abusing your opponents, you have nothing to do in a public discussion.
@ Pinar
Israel gave back the Sinai, and gaza.
So it is you who does not understand real history.
Why do Palestinian supporters always spout lies to support arguments ?
Also, there is no such thing as a "Palestinian" they are just arabs.
How can anyone take Spitzer seriously and Mr. Zakaria is a puppet of Obama. There is only one country that showed courage and that was Canada at the G8 Summit on this issue.
The Arabs and the Arab-friendly media simply don´t get the picture. The simple truth is that the Jews won´t commit collective suicide by getting back to pre-67 borders, aptly named "Auschwitz borders" by Abba Eban. The Jews will go on living and breathing, however much it irritates Barack Hussejn Obama, Fareed Zakaria, Hamas, Hezbollach and Jew-haters in Europe. This time they won´t voluntarily walk into gas chambers, neither will they create a ghetto for themselves by getting back to being a country 8 miles wide. They won´t create a minority of themselves by letting in millions of so called "refugees" in order to get murdered by terror and pogroms. The notion of Jews living, breathing and not converted to soap might be very irritating for some people, but the Jews intend to stay on living and breathing anyhow. There won´t be any more Auschwitzes, at least not in the Middle East. As Ariel Sharon put it, "the Arabs might have oil, but we have the matches".
It really doesnt matter what happens with these peace talks, if i were an israeli i would be a little frightened being that the arab population in israel(palestinians) is growing at an enormous rate compared to their jewish conterpart, let time pass an Jews will be minority in there own state. Now thats comedy
And the Bristish negotiated with civilian killing Zionists when palestine was under their control. he doesn't want peace is an understatement. The people of Israel, Jewish, Arab, and others want peace. It will come but nopt before more death and more hate.
Sad.
The solution is obvious. Stop settlements. Trade land occupied to preserve most existing settlements. Then get the hell out!
"The solution is obvious. Stop settlements"
Wouldn´t you like it? Sounds like a Final Solution to me. Won´t happen, though.
Dan: The solution is obvious. Stop settlements. Trade land occupied to preserve most existing settlements. Then get the hell out!
The very same solution can be reversed and it will not become any less obvious: Tell the Palestinians to stop THEIR building in the West Bank and "get the hell out!" If you don't like this solution you should understand the reasons Israelis don't like YOURS.
Consider this idea (population swaps): some settlers go to Israeli borders while some palestenians living in Israel go to Palestine. Many Arabs in Israel live there not much longer than settlers on these "occupied" territories. Some people (usually palestenian negotiators and leftist journalists like in the above article) call it racist. But the same people usually imply that Palestine, of course, must be juden-frei. (Arabs don't imply , they openly say) .
It's not very realistic idea since surprisingly few Israeli Arabs, while calling Palestinians their brothers etc., when given a choice, are willing to actually live under their rule. But it demonstrates the fundamental hypocrisy of these "stop the settlements" claims.
Mr. Zakaria, You say that Hamas is "struggling for national liberation". Liberation from what? The people of Gaza are not occupied, they have their own government. The only reason there are walls and a blockade is that they have used this right to govern to continue to carry out their oft-stated goal of trying to annihilate Israel. If freedom is truly what Hamas is seeking, then it will use the opening up of it's border with Egypt as an opportunity to further the human rights, education and economic viability of it's people. If it cares little for true freedom, then we will see it use the opening of the border as an opportunity to further murder and terrorize.
If Prime Minister Netanyahu is correct in his assertion that Israel requires defensible borders, then history will eventually acknowledge him as being a pragmatist and not a comma.
Loretta: Mr. Zakaria, You say that Hamas is "struggling for national liberation". Liberation from what?
Liberation from JEWS, of course! Gaza is already liberated...
It seems that many have swallowed this phony "struggle for liberation" hook, line and sinker. What Hamas is really struggling to achieve is mass murder. This is evidenced by their constant struggle to get more efficient and deadly weaponry.
The west needs to wake up and realize that these tactics will be used against us in the future.
I advise you to look for a new job and suggest you start in Pakistan
Palestinians were divided, he said he couldn't negotiate with them because they were divided. Then they unified. He said, "I can't negotiate with you because you're united."
because there united by a terrorists group duhhhhhh hamas is nothing but terrorists and labled world wide as such by dealing with them you might as well make a deal with al-quada or the taliban oh yeah obama is doing that .......
So glad Eliot Spitzer is here to guide us with his unique moral vision, and together with Fareed Zakaria, the CNN interview will have the same impact on politics that Woodstock has had on gangster rap.
Meanwhile Israel is just one front in a world war declared by Muslim fantasists. The war has been going on ever since their medieval regimes were enriched by Big Oil. If Netanyahu can be held accountable for Jihad attacks in the Philippines, let's have a man of Eliot Spitzer's character tell us how.
Fareed made one factual mistake. Israel has been trying to nrgotiate with Fatah and did not use the excuse that they are divided. I guess he forgot that Netenyahu was the first Prime Minister to do a Moratorium of settlement construction to get Abbas to the peace table. >>>and how did Abbas respond he sat out over 9 months coming back simply to have another precondition that they extend the existing moretorium. Give me a break. Arab are liars. It is their culture. That is what the Quran teaches them. THat is why all arab countries are pathetic. Where there is no truth there is no justice.
Fully agree with you – and there are no such people as Palestinians.
The very simple reason that Jewish Settlers absolutely cannot be allowed to remain in the new Palestinian state is because they have their own army, the IDF, which would be called upon continuously to cross the border to intervene on their behalf or on behalf of their interests. This would be unavoidable, as the Settlers have already proven they are perfectly willing to fight their own government (Israel) to get their way. Such IDF incursions would render any border completely meaningless. Therefore, if Palestine is to be demilitarized, there must be no basis or need for the IDF to cross that border to defend Jewish Settlers beyond it. As for Arab citizens of Israel, the possibility of voluntary emigration could be explored.
Regarding Netanyahu's refusal to negotiate with any Palestinian government that includes Hamas, -here is something to think about: Hamas could move the peace process forward by releasing a statement similar to this:
**
We will end our legitimate resistance and recognize Israel upon signing a peace agreement that (1) creates permanent borders and (2) ends Israel's occupation and oppression of the Palestinian people. This will end all future claims by all sides. We will renounce violence when Israel stops using violence, assassinations, military force, and racist civil regulations against our own people. If we must negotiate with an Israeli government that includes factions like Likud, UTJ, and Yisrael Beiteinu, -that refuse the concept of two states for two peoples, then surely Israel can negotiate with a Palestinian government that includes Hamas.
We encourage Israel to stop illegal Settlement construction and put a credible peace offer on paper with a map showing it's desired borders. Vague inferences to peace with stipulations and conditions are not a peace offer. With a credible Israeli offer on paper, the PLO and PA representatives will proceed to negotiations with Israel that are moderated by the Quartet and open for public review. There will be no more private negotiations and secret offers. The options for a peace agreement have been evaluated for decades. All we have to do is pick the parts we can agree on and request Quartet bridging proposals for what remains. The Settlements issue can be resolved on a case by case basis with mutually agreed swaps of similar land. Both sides should desire a border that is as short and straight as possible as these characteristics improve defensibility. The Palestinian right of return can be resolved with just compensation and repatriation to the Palestinian state.
Israel's claim that the Jordan valley is critical to it's security is complete hogwash considering it's current ability to cover the airspace by plane and surveil the ground by spy satellite. Technology has ensured that no army can sneak up on Israel. Our representatives would accept a third party security force like NATO in the Jordan valley, with periodic evaluation for effectiveness and necessity. Israel’s most dangerous enemy is the one within, -the pro-Settlement Zionists who would prefer civil war to any peace agreement that creates two states for two peoples. We wish you success managing these difficult issues, but we must remind you time is precious and September approaches.
**
If and when the Palestinians will produce leadership ABLE AND WILLING to recognize Israel, stop violence and negotiate a peace agreement this leadership will recognize Israel, stop violence and ask Israel for peace negotiations without ANY preconditions. Israel will gladly agree. As long as there is no such Palestinian leadership there is no one Israel can negotiate with.
Kiev500: The very simple reason that Jewish Settlers absolutely cannot be allowed to remain in the new Palestinian state is because they have their own army, the IDF...
So do the Arabs living in Israel who have "their own army", Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Do you believe that Israel should expel ALL Arabs from Israel because of that? This being said, however, I can assure you that not a single Jew will remain within the NEGOTIATED borders of the still non-existing Palestinian state.
Thinker23: "this (Palestinian) leadership will recognize Israel, stop violence and ask Israel for peace negotiations without ANY preconditions" Ummm... negotiations end conflicts and violence by producing peace and recognition, not the other way around.
"So do the Arabs living in Israel who have "their own army", Hamas and Islamic Jihad." Your logic is non-linear. Remember that after the peace agreement Israel will have an army and the Palestinian state will not.
"Do you believe that Israel should expel ALL Arabs from Israel?" Israel has the right to decide how to manage and define itself as itsees fit. I assume these decisions will be made democratically.
"I can assure you that not a single Jew will remain within the NEGOTIATED borders of the Palestinian state..." I understand what you are implying. I agree with the sentence, but not the intended implication. I believe the final border will be adjusted in some places from 1967 lines due to land swaps, and that Jewish Settlers in other areas will have to be evacuated. It is the latter part that poses the most risk, as Jewish Settlers have proven to be willing to resist violently when Israeli police and IDF forces require their evacuation.
Kiev500: negotiations end conflicts and violence by producing peace and recognition, not the other way around.
True. Nevertheless, for negotiations to start BOTH sides must be able and willing to negotiate. As a bare minimum BOTH sides must be able and willing to stop violence, recognize each other and agree to negotiate.
"Remember that after the peace agreement Israel will have an army and the Palestinian state will not."
I CAN NOT "remember" the results of peace negotiations that did not happen yet.
" "Do you believe that Israel should expel ALL Arabs from Israel?" Israel has the right to decide..."
I've asked what YOU, Kiev500, believe in.
"Jewish Settlers have proven to be willing to resist violently when Israeli police and IDF forces require their evacuation."
I've never suggested that the settlers should be evacuated by force. To the contrary, I believe that these people should be allowed (by Israel) to stay in their homes after Israeli withdrawal. Then they'll have to deal with the Palestinian authorities. I doubt very much that they'll be willing to entertain this opportunity.
Thinker: “As a bare minimum BOTH sides must be able and willing to stop violence, recognize each other and agree to negotiate.” I think both sides are able and willing. Negotiation is the process by which it is actually done. It’s time to do it.
“Do you believe that Israel should expel ALL Arabs from Israel?” ‘Israel has the right to decide…’ “I've asked what YOU, Kiev500, believe in.” OK. I believe that for Israel to survive as it’s founders intended, that it must become more Jewish over time. Policies are already in place that are intended to produce that result. I believe Israel can change or modify those policies as necessary in order to become more Jewish. I do not believe this necessarily comports wth the concept of democracy, but that is not pertinent to your question.
“I've never suggested that the settlers should be evacuated by force. To the contrary, I believe that these people should be allowed (by Israel) to stay in their homes after Israeli withdrawal. Then they'll have to deal with the Palestinian authorities. I doubt very much that they'll be willing to entertain this opportunity.” Hummm… I doubt very much that Israel would sit idly by and allow those Settlers to be driven out by NATO or the policies of the new Palestinian state. On the other hand, Israeli intervention after the fact could not be allowed. The potential PR value of casting those Settlers as victims would be wasted if the peace agreement is agreed to settle all future claims. The only exception is internal PR, which might serve to influence future Israeli political elections. It’s better and more responsible for Israel to gather it’s people while it controls the area.
The arabs slaughter -themselves- in every arab country, in every muslim country they persecute and destroy the minority populations, in foreign countries they demand their barbaric shari'a law for themselves, and declare the natives as infidels that must be purged from their own nations.
And you expect Israel to be able to make PEACE, TRUE PEACE, with that? Please.
All Islam wants is for you to approve of, or look away, as they sacrifice Israel on their Islamic blood altar.
Please, for the holy land, for western civilization, for freedom and liberty – Dont let them.
I'm no fan of Sharia Law, but I'm also no fan of Puritan Law. How long did it take the Puritans who settled in America to finally stop burning "witches" at the stake? All religions evolve. Even Islam is capable of addressing modernity given sufficient time to evolve. As a state, Israel is a formidible nuclear power with a large force of well equipped airplanes and tanks. The Islamic threat you speak of cannot accomplish the agenda you claim it pursues. The more relevant threat to Israel is the potential for civil war between Jewish factions as Israel confronts the necessity to act on the issue of the peace process. Yitzhak Rabin was the first casualty of this internal conflict.
It seems that you're having troubles to explain your point and for a very good reason: ONE SIDE, no matter how powerful, CAN NOT MAKE PEACE. If it was possible the US would make peace with Afghanistan back in 2001. Most of us know that one side can start a war but BOTH sides are necessary for peace. Therefore, as long as the Palestinians and Arabs in general are willing the war to continue it will continue and the Palestinians will continue to enjoy its results more than anyone else.
Thinker23: "It seems that you're having troubles to explain your point..." That's odd. I thought my point was pretty clear. I also differ with your suggestion that one side cannot make peace. It is possible to make peace through pursuit of surrender by military conquest. On the other hand, one side cannot negotiate a peace agreement. Here I agree with you, although I believe Israel prefers the former, not the latter. The reason for this preference is the vast military superiority that Israel enjoys over every other adjacent state and militia group in the region.
"...As long as the Palestinians and Arabs in general are willing the war to continue..." I understand your frustration, but we must remember that Jordan and Egypt were also "Arab" states that were in conflict with the Israeli state. If they can make peace with Israsel, surely the remaining parties can also make peace if offered the same terms.
Kiev500: I also differ with your suggestion that one side cannot make peace. It is possible to make peace through pursuit of surrender by military conquest.
For this to happen the OTHER side is necessary to surrender or to be conquested.
" I believe Israel prefers the former, not the latter. The reason for this preference is the vast military superiority that Israel enjoys over every other adjacent state and militia group in the region.
When your beliefs and the facts contradict each other it's not the facts that should be corrected. If Israel preferred the military conquest and considering the vast military superiority that Israel enjoys over every other adjacent state and militia group in the region all those adjacent states and militia groups would be already conquested.
"If they can make peace with Israsel, surely the remaining parties can also make peace if offered the same terms."
Well, they CAN but they do not WANT to. The same (and even better) terms were offered to them many times. As I've said for peace to become possible both sides must be ABLE AND WILLING to make peace.
Your discussion on Netanyahu lets the world know just how ignorant you really are. I never knew you were so stupid, Fareed.
Do you possibly think Israel should turn over land to a group of terrorist? Land for a falst peace? I don't think so.
With the 'Arab Awakening', Israel, because of its industry and economic standing, has a great opportunity to be the leader of the region. All they have to do is to throw away the mantle of victimhood and religious dictates (homeland for the Jews and calling the area Judeah and Sumaria) and assist in the creation of two state solution. Unfortunately the leaders like Bini are so influenced by the extreme right that he can not see beyond maintaining his coalition. The changes that are taking place in the Arab world will be far reaching and can not be ignored. President Obama, being a pragmatic leader, understand that. His plan is viable and Mr. Zakaria explained that such solution will happen. If Israel maintains its untenable positon, it will find itself isolated behind the concrete fence that they have built.
Nothing against peace loving people of ALL religions and peace loving Israeli's, but let's cut out the propaganda.
ORIGINS OF FUNDAMENTALISM AND RADICALISM IN MODERN MIDDLE EAST
Scholars, statesmen, and enlighten peoples all over the world warned, from the 1900s, the Western colonial countries not to introduce Jewish and Christian fundamentalism (Zionism)1 …. into the Middle East especially when Arabs were encouraged to revolt against the Muslim Turks during WW I. Unfortunately the West and later the USA ignored the warnings and went ahead in helping European Jews to establish a Jewish homeland in Palestine and to develop Jewish nationalism ; At the expense of Palestinian nationalism and peoples who most of them live now in refugee camps and as refugees in other countries since the creation of Israel in 1948 over the land of historic Palestine.2 While Jewish settlers coming from all around the world enjoy the privilege of living in modern settlements upon their arrival to Israel ( Palestine )3 …. [What a great injustice and a clear racism based on race and religion “If you are a Jew you can emigrate and live in Israel regardless of your birth place, and if you are not a Jew even if you are born there, you have no rights to live and be a full citizen there”]. Creating and maintaining a Jewish state ( Israel ) in which became through natural historical factors a predominately Arab and Muslim region is a destabilizing factor. Perhaps a more just solution for the Holy Land is the establishment of a truly democratic state where religion and its symbols are separated from the state (a Western model will be perfect). All should enjoy equal rights in such multi-ethnic/religious state. Not like the “democracy” that suppose to exists today in Israel (Apartheid kind of democracy where the laws always guarantee the majority of Jews in Israel by encouraging Jews all over the world to immigrate into Israel while refusing the return of the Palestinian refugees to their home land). I found no convincing explanation for the reason: Why is it in the best interest of the USA and the West to secure and maintain a superior militaristic Jewish State in modern Middle East? US and Western credibility, in more than 50 Arab and Muslim countries, is shaken by this unquestionable support and double standard policy towards the issues of WMD and human rights (Yes Israel have all kinds of WMD and violate the human rights of defenseless Palestinians).4 Today in the Middle East, we are witnessing and paying dearly for the failure of the Western (including the US) policies in the Middle East. As a result of introducing Zionism and Christian fundamentalism to the Middle East in the beginning of last century, we have now unstable Middle East, Jewish and Christian fundamentalists who are killing, oppressing, depriving the natives (Palestinians) for their natural birth rights in the name of religion and Western values (Israel), Islamic fundamentalism (Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Afghanistan, Algeria, Hamas, Hezballah, Ben Ladin, El Zarqawi, etc.) who wants to restore the Holy Land for the Muslims and grew up hating the West for their help to Israel, and Arab radicalism (Qadaffe, Arafat, Saddam, Nasser, etc.) Who wants to restore Palestine for nationalistic reasons. And we have the Palestinians who lost their homes, lives, dignity in the process. Any ideas on how to stop fundamentalism and radicalism in the Middle East?5 … I strongly believe establishing a truly democratic secular state (Westren style democracy) in the Holy Land is a good start. What do you think? Also as you may figure it out, I am confused about US and Western countries foreign policy formulation process. Do they depend on the Biblical prophases or the modern concepts of International Law and Human Rights when making foreign policy decisions in the Middle East? …..Peoples in the Middle East accuse the United States and the West of making their foreign policy decisions in the Middle East based on the Bible and cite the wars going on Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine as wars between fundamentalists from both sides Muslim Jihad’s and Christian Crusaders (American and Western Christian right). How do Americans and Europeans respond to this accusation?------–...
1. The Zionists are those Jews who ignored the Old Testament teachings that only the Messiah could bring them together from the Diaspora. Instead the Zionists and their fundamentalist Christens (Christen Zionists) supporters called for the establishment of a Jewish state ( Israel ) by using force, wars, and weapons of mass destruction if necessary and at any cost. As far as for those Jews who fled with their life from Nazi Germany, we all sympathize with them, but that doesn't give them the right to establish a Jewish state in historic Palestine at the expense of other religious and ethnic groups already living there. As far as the story “that God promised the Jews the Holy Land, we reply that “since when did God play favorites amongst his people and since when did He went into the real-estate business”. Yes the Holy Land is dear to the Jews for historical and religious reasons and nothing wrong with that, it is also dear for Christians and Muslims for the same reasons.
2. If you want to know the truth about the Israeli – Palestinian conflict you should read about how Israel was created in 1948? And how the helpless native Palestinian bedouins, peasants and city dwellers were murdered and terrorized by the Zionists gangs (the founders of modern Israel)? And the rest of the Palestinians fled and became refugees all over the world and very few stayed in what is known today as Israel, the West Bank and Gaza. Read The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Dr. Ilan Pappe, Fateful Triangle by Noam Chomsky, The Zionist Connection by Alfred Linenthal, Perfidy by Ben Hecht, The Decadence of Judaism in our time by Moshe Menuhin, and The 13th Tribe by Arthur Koestler. All Jewish writers. If you want to ignore history facts and just want to make opinions about the issue out of your head, then you are just a person who hates Arabs and Muslims for no reason but for the sake of hate "YOU ARE A HATEFULL AND RACEIST PERSON" and if you want to make your opinion about the issue based on your religious beliefs "THEN YOU ARE A FUNDAMINTALIST". Arab, Palestinian, Muslim individuals became violent recently (perhaps for the last 20 years) after desperation and loss of confidence on world community to regain their rights by legal means and after Arab governments were defeated by American and Western supported Israeli army. Ironically the Christen West and the USA helped creating "Israel” as a Jewish State for fundamentally religious reasons in the past until today which led to the rise of Islamic fundamentalism. It is a scientific law "for every action there is a reaction etc…."
3. Anti-Jewish sentiments have developed and increased in all Muslim and Arab countries after the creation of Israel (as a Jewish State) in 1948 over historic Palestine. Many Arabs and Muslims wonder today at this betrayal of Jews against Arabs and Muslims especially when throughout history Arabs and Muslims have protected them from genocide. This is a serious accusation against the Jewish people.
4.Those of us, who admire and advocate Western political systems and democracy especially the concept of separation of Church and state, respect for human life, freedom, equality, and living in free world of WMD, are puzzled, confused, and disappointed by the West and the USA specifically for their support of such a State (i.e. Israel).
5. No the solution is not to kill every one who opposes you, like what the USA is doing right now in Afghanistan and Iraq and plans to do so in the Sudan, Syria, Iran, and perhaps in all the Arab and Muslim countries. Or what Israel is doing now in Gaza. What’s going on? Are we going to play Crusaders vs. Muslims all over again?. less
"bedouins, peasants and city dwellers were murdered and terrorized by the Zionists gangs (the founders of modern Israel)? And the rest of the Palestinians fled and became refugees"
Filthy, Nazi-style Jew bashing as in lies about "peasants..murdered and terrorized by the Zionists gangs" would make Julius Streicher proud. You know about Julius Streicher? He was the top Nazi expert on the topic of "Jewish crimes and atrocities" and the founder of a best-selling anti-semitic Nazi magazine, "Der sturmer".
After the war, the Allies concluded the discussion with Streicher in a very efficient way: They placed a rope around his neck and hanged him. Thsi is a fact that should be brought to attention of every self-styled expert on "Jewish atrocities".
Hey there "Mr. Common sense" you are full of crap – go back to cleaning tables at McDonalds – they need you
You have NO common sense.
There is "NO" such thing as a Palestinian.
Telling a lie, ten thousand times does NOT make it the truth.
How nice, i can change my name to "smurf"
and demand a smurfistan.
FAIL !
Want more?
The Israeli cabinet…approved a bill enabling state land to be reserved
for Jews only…
Agence France Presse, July 9, 2002
“Most of the inhabitants of Israel realize that there is only one
solution in the face of our insane and suicidal neighbor—separation.”
–Prof. Arnon Sofer, University of Haifa, Palestine. Haaretz daily,
June 28, 2002
A member of the Israeli parliament has proposed ‘massive ethnic
cleansing’ of non-Jews in Palestine-Israel as a ‘final solution’ (ENDLOSUNG) of
the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Uzi Cohen, a member of Ariel Sharon’s right-wing Likud Party…told Israeli public radio on Sunday there was widespread support in Israel for ‘the idea of ethnic cleansing.’
–Palestine Monitor website, January 4, 2004
“These lands are all ours. We should send the Arabs out. Send them to their own countries and to their own places…Get back the guns from the Arabs. Then turn off their electricity. Then their water. If it’s so hard on them, let them leave…”
–Anitra Lehman, native of Maryland, USA, laying claim to the land of Palestine!
“I don’t know something called International Principles. I vow that I’ll burn every Palestinian child [that] will be born in this area. The Palestinian woman and child are more dangerous than the man; the Palestinian child’s existence infers generations will go on.”
–Israeli military commander Ariel Sharon, 1956. Quoted in Dawn,
Karachi, May 20, 2002
“There are circumstances in history that justify ethnic cleansing…a Jewish state would not have come into being without the uprooting of 700,000 Palestinians. Therefore it was necessary to uproot them. There was no choice but to expelthat population.”
–Israeli ‘historian’ Benny Morris. Haaretz, Palestine, January 9, 2004
"A member of the Israeli parliament has proposed ‘massive ethnic
cleansing’ of non-Jews in Palestine-Israel as a ‘final solution’ (ENDLOSUNG) "
ENDLOSUNG was the German word for murdering six million Jews in the gas chambers. The Arabs liked the Endlosung. The Great Mufti of Jerusalem was a personal friend of the leading Nazis.
"We should send the Arabs out."
Well, the Arabs did kick the Jews out. Every single one of them. almost a million Jews were brutally kicked out of every Arab country – or had to flee in panic in order to stay alive.
If Jews are not allowed to live in Arab countries – why shoud Arabs be allowed to live in the Jewish state? You don´t seem to have any problems with ethnic cleansing as long as only Jews are cleansed, do you?
"Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away." – Benjamin Netanyahu.
A comment made by Netanyahu, the prime minister of "Israel" to Jonathan
Pollard (convicted traitor and spy) upon exiting Pollard's jail cell.
"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." – Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio
That was definitely true under the Bush administration, but it sure doesn't seem to be true under the Obama administration. I am proud Obama is demanding the return to the 1967 borders. That is the only way there can every be peace in the entire region. Next step should be to stop all aid to Israel until they return those lands.
"That was definitely true under the Bush administration, but it sure doesn't seem to be true under the Obama administration. I am proud Obama is demanding the return to the 1967 borders. That is the only way there can every be peace in the entire region. "
Sure, if the Jews get back to pre-67 borders (nine miles wide), the Muslims attack, eradicate Israel and kill every single Jew the way they promise to ("We will throw the Jews into te sea"), there will be peace. Of sorts. There is peace in Treblinka and in the town of Auschwitz. And no Jews.
However, I wouldn´t count on that kind of "peace" if I were you. Not this time. American presidents have demanded the "return to 1967 borders" in over 40 years, starting with the so-called Rogers plan in late 1960-ties. And these bad, ungaretul Jews have simply refused to get back into what Abba Eban aptly called "Auschwitz borders": For some reason, they insist to go on living an breathing and don´t intend to make it easy for the Arabs to "throw" them "into the sea".
Good ole Bibi, so concerned with others:
On the day of the 9-11 attacks, former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was asked what the attacks would mean for US-Israeli relations. His quick reply was:
"It's very good…….Well, it's not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy (for Israel)"
But there is the problem of our ill-informed citizenry.
In western Europe, it is a much more widely held view that Israel is an incorrigible state. In the US, there is this notion that Israel is largely right, but that they make mistakes, or that the situation is muddled and both sides are right and wrong. It's hard to move this opinion because the Israel-lobby coerces legislators of both parties to vote 'correctly'. And as long as our legislatures are undivided on their blanket support of Israel, so too will our corporate media be undivided.
This is compounded by the fact that Israel supporters are represented out of proportion in our media. This is the reason that the networks can constanly go to the well of Israel-Firsters and offer it up as if it is a neutral scholarly opinion. Thus, very pro-Israel biased opinions from such people as Aaron David Miller or Martin Indyck get repeated airing while pro-justice opinions have to compete with openly pro-Isreal figures such as the Israeli ambassador to the UN or the US.
Nonetheless, there will be divisions in the media if divisions can be effected in congress. This task must largely be done by Jews – so-called 'J-Street' Jews who believe that the Palestinians have been dealt a raw deal by Israel. No one else can do it for them.
I cannot recommend a Prime Minister of a foreign government sit so comfortably in our chairs and tell our President what to do with his articulation of established and accepted global policy regarding Israel and the Palestinians. A policy that is supported by the quartet and every country in the world except Israel. If you were to taker a poll asking the question in this country of our citizens the response would be an informed support of this global position.
"I cannot recommend a Prime Minister of a foreign government sit so comfortably in our chairs and tell our President what to do with his articulation of established and accepted global policy regarding Israel and the Palestinians. A policy that is supported by the quartet and every country in the world except Israel. "
Sir,
I could tell you what your president can do with his, pardon my French, "rticulation of established and accepted global policy regarding Israel", but I don´t want to be impolite. owever, try to use your imagination.
"n western Europe, it is a much more widely held view that Israel is an incorrigible state"
In Europe, Western or Eastern, there used to exist a widely hold view that Jews, all of them, should be transported to gas chambers, then burned in ovens and processed into soap. A lot of people in Europe, Eastern or Western, still can´t come over the fact tat some Jews have escaped the ovens and created a tiny country for themselves on a barren piece of desert. The very notion of Jews living, beathing and not converted into soap is palinly abhorrent for a lot of people in Europe and for at least some Americans.
However, this time the Jews won´t voluntarily walk into the gas chambers, neither will they make it easy for their Arab neighbours to "throw them into the sea". It might irritate people who believe that another, final Holocaust in the Middle East is "pro justice", but you can´t make everybody happy.
The palestinian did not support hitler, did nothing to jewish, why they have to loss evrething.
I smell a distraction tactic. -When Goldberg and Common sense finish flaming, perhaps then we can get back to sensible discussion of the present situation and how to move forward, rather than rehashing recriminations from the past.
Hey, Kiev500, smatri syuda:
in your beautiful city of Kiev you alredy had your "sensible discussion". You "discussed" with the Jews of Kiev at Babij Yar. And afterwards no Jews were left in Kiev.
A lot of people from you beatiful country conducted "sensible discussion" at other places. Such as Treblinka, where 80 percent of the Nazi guards were Ukrainian.
According to historical records it has been a very rewarding service. The Ukrainian guards didn´t really know what to do with all the gold, jewellery and watches taken from the Jews nurdered in the gas chambers of Treblinka.
I have a nasty suprise for you, Mr Kiev500: Vtoroj Treblinki na blizjnem Vostoke ne budet. Whoever would like to apply for guard duty, should realize that this simply wan't happen – regardless of what Mr barack Hussejn Osama or Obama or whatever his name is thinks about the matter.
Goldberg: You operate on false assumptions. I live in the United States, not Ukraine. As I previously suggested, much time has been wasted here talking of sins of the past and recriminations from that. We owe the past a permanent memory, but we should never use the past to prevent a better future.
REAL Americans love Netanyahu – because he embodies the values that we value. Strength in the face of Islamic medievalism, love of freedom and limited government, and respect for the rule of Law. Zakaria is an irrelevant chump and we don't like him. There's a reason FOX news is #1. Part of that is Zakaria and his "world view". Its better suited to his home country and his native Islamic community.
Hamas has stated that they wish to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. What should Hamas do to pursue this commitment?
Hamas should stop attacks against Israel and declare that it recognizes the right of Israel to exist and is willing to negotiate a peace agreement. In exchange Israel will stop attacks against Hamas. It DID recognize the right of Palestinian Arabs to have a state back in 1948 and expressed its willingness to negotiate peace with EVERY Arab partner willing to do the same.
Here's a wild suggestion: I doubt either side would initially support it: Intermarriage between Jews and Palestinians in support of peace. Female volunteers would meet politically moderate males from the opposing sides. With marriage, they would then be allowed to enter the state of their husband and would become dual citizens. Their children would gain paternal citizenship from their fathers. In a generation or two, there would be no hate and more religious tolerance. Instead of being told from birth who they are and who "the enemy" is, these children can grow up without political or religious indoctrination.
Kiev500: I'm not sure what, if ANY, considerations you've had when you decided to marry your spouse but humans in general and Israelis in particular are doing it because of LOVE.
Thinker: I should point out that arranged marriages are not uncommon in the mid east. I do mean to refer to arranged marriages and not forced marriages. All such arrangements have a purpose aside from just love. Volunteers would be free participants who engage of their own free will. As higher purposes go, ending this long conflict through intermarriage is a rather noble commitment. Similar solutions are notable throughout world history.
Not a bad idea but it won't work. You propose breeding out the conflict. Interracial couples are common in the US but does that eliminate the racism and hatred by some? Nope. Mixing ethnicities won't bring peace. But like I said it isn't a bad idea.
I agree that it won't end hatred, but it can improve understanding which reduces violence.
Netanyahu will be regarded well by many historians and not so by others. As is true of even Abraham. Netanyahu is not the full measure of the COUNTRY of Israel. He is only a part of it.
The most telling thing about the Arab countries is the experience of Lara Logan of 60 Minutes, USA when in Tahrir Square she was raped to near death by a crowd of Arabic men inciting one another with calls to the crowd that she was "Israeli" and "A Jew". This bodes ill for any type of security or democracy from the Arab Spring.
The Arab world MUST change its perceptions and reactions to Israel and Jews everywhere in the world. Peace, world peace, relies upon it.
Netanyahu said. “I will be prepared to make a far-reaching compromise.” After declaring a day earlier in the White House news conference in presence of President Obama that Israel would not agree to negotiate 1967 borders with Palestinians for the two State solution . The extremist right wing prime minister ignored , that Olmert noted in 2008 : “We must give up Arab neighborhoods in Jerusalem and return to the core of the territory that is the State of Israel prior to 1967, with minor corrections dictated by the reality created since then The Israel needs a peace maker and not a enemy of peace . The Israelis need a leader and peace maker like Isaac Rabin . Netanyahu is no Rabin ! The U. S. presidents since 1967 have all followed said the same policy . Netanyahu will be remembered as obstructionist for peace , a war monger and a killer of innocent Palestinians in Gaza .
DMF: Neither Rabin nor Olmert were able to make peace. The reason is simple: BOTH sides must be able and willing to make peace in order for peace to become possible. Further, GIVING land to terrorists in hope that they'll become peaceful did not and will not work. To the contrary, every time it was tried terrorism intensified because gifts (or even promises) in response to terrorism are being seen (correctly) as a proof that terrorism work and that more terrorism will work even better and will generate even more gifts and promises.
Was Rabin given a chance to make peace? I believe he was murdered by an Israeli terrorist (or possibly the LIKUD party an extremest terror organization) at the suggestion of being a true party to peace!
You mean it will pass him by the same way it will pass the murderous masses in the middle east who's only goal is blood?
Some fond hope Mr.Zakaria!!!!!!!!!!
You did not have the courage to even refer to the UNANIMOUS bi-partisan ACCLAIM Mr. Netanyahu got in the joing US congress. While Obama is well known for NATURAL AFFINITY to the Muslim world given his growing up in Muslim Indonesia, and his Muslim father (as rightly pointed out by Mike Huckabee) and has been trying to convert that into official US policy including with regard to Israel, you know very well that even prominent democrats like Harry Reid are backing off from Obama's pro-Islamic stance.
So, Mr. Zakaria, inspite of all your PRETENSIONS of criticism of the Palestinians, what stands out LOUD & CLEAR for anyone who knows your SUGAR COATING tactics in support of worldwide Islamist causes is your UTTER HATREDNESS & JEALOUSY for the VALIANT & BRAINY Jews, dislike of America & the west.
Each day you are only exposing yourself & your ISLAMIST AGENDA!
While you may even be right that Isarel may indeed eventually settle down for something close to the 1967 borders, as Netanyahu rightly pointed out it will never bring peace to the ME with Hamas and its Arab & Iranian/Turkish supporters ganging upto finish of Israel, eventually leading to their own destruction much as the HOLY BIBLE has prophesied!
The same thing is true with TERRORIST PAKISTAN which will sooner or later disintegrate, and also Muslims with a Jihadist mindset in Europe, America & the rest of the free world.
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Fareed Zakaria has an opinion on everything in our world including Israel. Had he to stand for elections in the US, he would probably end up getting only one vote, which would be his own. His opinion versus the opinion of the american people is not compatible. Peace is not about giving back or receiving more. Peace is about learning to live with what is presently there. What ever israel has will remain with isreal and what the arabs have to learn is to live with what is available. These are called the harsh realities of life. The fact of the matter is we all live only once, so going back is not an option. What is important is how we live today.
Mr. Zakaria:
If I may add with more & more Americans seeing though your Islamist agenda, and with the REMOTE likelihood of someone as pro-Islamic as President Obama taking reins again in America, Mr.ZAKARIA YOU TOO WILL BE PART OF FORGOTTEN HISTORY IN THE ANNALS OF AMERICAN JOURNALISM, unless you change your INNER STRIPES, which you indeed may just to stay in the limelight!!
Amit-Atlanta-USA
I enjoy listening to Fareeds questions and perspective on the subject. I wish he would apply his logic and insight to the plight of Jewish people in the other muslim/mideast.......oh yea, they were all either killed or run out. Isreal has a right to be paranoid about it's neighbors and the future of their relationship. This is their last chance. They have no where else to go.
No one can give peace to Israel, only God can
No one can give peace to Israel. They must make peace with their neighbors!
I do not think history will pass him by. I think history will show Netanyahu and Sharon to be the murders that they are!
If we can have Alaska bordering Canada and Hawaii in the Pacific then nothing should stop us from creating a 51st state in the Middle East where Israeli's and Palestinians live as one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Betsy Ross its time to add another star to the flag!
@ Hawk.
Under what kind of government would these 2 different people live ?
A sharia dictatorship ?
Under an Israeli democracy the Israeli's will be out numbered
voted out , taken over and destroyed.
A one state sollution will never work.
Another score for Bibi...
Upon his return from Washington, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu made use of the Cabinet meeting Sunday to quote U.S. foreign affairs expert Walter Russell Mead, who wrote that “Israel is an American value.”
Mead, Editor-at-Large of The American Interest and former Senior Fellow for U.S. Foreign Policy at the Council on Foreign Relations, also wrote that Netanyahu had “eviscerated” President Barack Obama in their latest match-up, and the fact that Netanyahu quoted him could be an indication of his own assessment of his Washington visit.
And then.
Mead’s post about Netanyahu’s face-off with President Barack Obama in Washington last week was ecstatic.
“Three times [Obama] has gone up against Netanyahu,” wrote Mead; “three times he has ingloriously failed.”
“This last defeat — Netanyahu’s deadly, devastating speech to Congress in which he eviscerated President Obama’s foreign policy to prolonged and repeated standing ovations by members of both parties — may have been the single most stunning and effective public rebuke to an American President a foreign leader has ever delivered.
“Netanyahu beat Obama like a red-headed stepchild; he played him like a fiddle; he pounded him like a big brass drum. The Prime Minister of Israel danced rings around his arrogant, professorial opponent. It was like watching the Harlem Globetrotters go up against the junior squad from Miss Porter’s School; like watching Harvard play Texas A&M, like watching Bambi meet Godzilla
Gateway Pundit.com
Because Mr. Fareed Zakaria is a Muslim/Islamist, he will never say anything good or positive about Israel. Mr. Zakaria did not even have the decency, neither the kindness nor the journalistic sense to mention Prime Minister Netanyahu’s first name; nine times he mentions his last name–“Netanyahu” but never “Benjamin,” which is Mr. Netanyahu’s first name.
Mr. Zakaria’s bias in favor of Islam makes him an agent of a group that has performed terrorist acts against the USA.
Netanyahu is a man entrapped within a land he dares to call by any other name than that of greater Israel and as far as he is concerned the people of GAZA after being dehumanized by israel proper and that includes having white phosporus bombs dropped on the Gazaens.Last time i looked everytime the u.n. wants to imposed crimes against humanity against Israel america uses its veto to quash same. Talk about ignoring the ignorant-Israel who puts itself above everyone else which includes its flagrant violation of all laws against humanity.
Netanyahu who thinks everytime he has to smooth things over with pretty-well the world goes on tour as Benjamin and the Israelis for basic pogey-points,with the world and america their bank and the forgiver of their debt. In the end it is coming down fast and unlike Israel-it takes two to tangle and Israel and their 200 nuclear bombs that they acquired by deception and treachery for Israel must start to realize that you should never start that way elsewise finish you wont.
No such thing as a Palestinian.
End of subject.
Yes, indeed. You're a black light in a dark closet reeks smells of ganja smoke.
These peace negotiations go forward as if peace is the ultimate goal of either side. It's not. Both sides value land, ethnic pride, religious fervor, and vengeance more than peace. To gain peace they'd have to give these things up which they're not willing to do. Ergo, no peace. Sure, we give financial aide to many involved parties, but why do we have to broker an unwanted peace?
While the world is discussing this issue, i am worried for the pak nukes which will be used by the talebanis against the usa, india, eu etc- the world should act in advance-
and I worry about the WMDs that the extremist in Israel have that may be used to to terrorize it's neighbors.
Netanyahu: "America is Easy to Push Around (English Subtitles)"
Mr. Zakaria,
With all due respect, it is the Arabs who have never accepted a two state solution. What was proposed and agreed upon in 1947 was a two state solution. This was never truly accepted by the Arabs, and why there continues to be disputes. For many Arabs, and particularly Muslim Arabs, there is no accepting or even recognising the right of a Jewish state to exist. This is the root of the problem. There are obviously more problems than this, but until Arabs accept the right of Israel to exist, there will be no deal.
Isreal
About 200,000 years ago, we think it was in the African continent, this guy from the species homo sapie.. had two daughters. They were a little different from the rest of the group. They weren't so different as to die at birth or be killed by the rest of the group for being different. They were of the species homo Sapiens. Their ancestors spread throughout the world, killing off similar species until they pretty much monopolized the earth for the species homo. Groups of this species roamed around until about 10,000 years ago they started forming permanent settlements and invented farming and government and civilization. At first they didn't believe in much of anything. At some point they started believing that different objects were gods. Their gods had some special properties. They were usually represented by a class of priests who encouraged the belief and expanded it to their own benefit.
Some groups enslaved other groups to get cheap labor to do work they didn't want to do. One of the enslaved groups was a scrappy little bunch in Egypt about 4,000 years ago which somehow got away from their masters and migrated into the middle east. This little group was a bit different. They believed in only one god. They managed to elbow some room for their group and lived in the area for several thousand years. About 1,400 years ago another group formed in the middle east. They had a religion that branched off of the one-god belief. They were very aggressive and conquered much of the world from the western Pacific Ocean to the eastern Atlantic Ocean. Their expansion was stopped by the Europeans and various other groups on the north. In their expansion they pretty much squeezed out the Jews from the middle east.
About sixty years ago, the Jews got lucky. After being nearly exterminated by the Germans, with the rest of Christianity not really paying much attention, the European and American Christians felt guilty and gave the Jews part of the middle east where they had first started, all those thousands of years ago. The land didn't belong to the Christians, but that is how geopolitics works.
The Muslims which control most of the temperate zone from the western Pacific to the eastern Atlantic took the position that they couldn't possibly do without the tiny sliver of land on the eastern Mediterranean Sea and tried to squeeze the Jews out again. The Jews are a scrappy bunch and had some powerful allies so they pushed back and now they have control of a tiny sliver of land plus a tiny bit more. They are still smaller than almost any American state. They don't want to give up any of the land they have and they don't want to accept a bunch of the prior owners. In history, usually when a group takes over a piece of land, they annihilate the prior inhabitants or push them out. Actually, in history in this kind of situation the surrounding groups come in and wipe out the new group. It is a little different in Israel this time.
The Muslims which control most of the temperate zone from the western Pacific to the eastern Atlantic have decided that Israel is one of their most holy places and they couldn't possibly share a tiny sliver of their empire with someone who believes in the same god they worship, actually who invented the god they worship, so, in the name of the god that both groups worship, they seek to annihilate the Jews.
For some reason, the Americans have decided not to allow this
I don't even know why we care about Palestinians. They are muslims and hate all white Christians. They also hate all Jews. I say let them have 0% of the land and stay out of this whole conflict. I don't want to support people that burn US flags and hate all people of European Descent.
USA