By Fareed Zakaria, CNN
Since 9/11, a decade ago, Washington has given the government of Pakistan more than $20 billion in aid. Two- thirds of that has gone to the military to fight the war on terror. The other third, about $6 billion, has gone for development of Pakistan's civilian economy and society.
The theory behind many of those billions of dollars is that by bringing Pakistan's poorest out of poverty and despair, fewer young men will be seduced by radical Islam.
As President Obama said, "We must stand with those who want to build Pakistan." And Secretary Clinton adds, "Providing this assistance is not only the right thing to do, but we believe it is essential to global security and the security of the United States."
This is an admirable approach for sure; it's a strategy the U.S. uses all over the world, from Baghdad to Bali and back.
But what if you discover that aid money does not necessarily make Pakistanis less likely to turn to terror? What if you learn that there's actually no correlation between being poor and supporting Islamic extremism?
Well, that's what a new serious academic study seems to prove. It's a robust survey by four academics from Princeton, Georgetown and the University of Pennsylvania that conducted extensive field research in Pakistan, interviewing 6,000 people across a broad spectrum of income groups and geography. Their findings could challenge the way we approach fighting terror, not just in Pakistan but around the world.
First, they find that in general Pakistanis don't like militant groups. Not just al Qaeda, but the other ones like the Pakistani or Afghan Taliban.
Second, contrary to conventional wisdom, poor Pakistanis dislike militant groups more than the middle classes.
Third, the people who hate militants the most are the urban poor, probably because more than any other group they're the ones who are affected by terror attacks - bombs in subways or cafes or whatever.
It's an interesting conclusion. The people we've long considered the likeliest candidates for extremism are actually the ones most against it.
The study points out that this goes against most of the existing policy literature on the subject.
It cites both the U.S. State Department and the UK's Department for International Development as saying poverty motivates people to extreme violence.
Now, giving aid to poor people is good in and of itself. But if we've been doing that to prevent them from becoming Islamic fundamentalists, then this study suggests we've been aiming at the wrong target. Perhaps our focus should be on the middle classes or on secular education.
Research shows that members of the IRA in Northern Ireland or Hezbollah's militant ring are more likely to come from economically advantaged families and with a relatively high level of schooling.
These are important issues for Washington to consider. Who does it want to give economic aid to? What exactly is the best way to create a climate less conducive to extremism? Those are long-term issues.
For now, what I want to say in the short term is: Let's at least focus on accountability for this aid – for both hard and soft aid. We need to demand results. What is the money achieving?
A CNN poll from last week shows that nearly half of all Americans think all aid to Pakistan should be stopped. Another quarter thinks it should be reduced.
It seems like 10 years and $20 billion later, the American people understand basic lessons in accounting that Washington has been learning the hard way. Pentagon documents now show that we are rejecting nearly half of Islamabad's claims for expenses over the last two years.
But the more important question is: Will the Pakistani military in return for all this money, finally move against the terror organizations like the Haqqani Network and Lashkar-e-Taiba that they claim to be willing to battle?
It's long delayed, but it is the right message that we should be sending.
American purse strings are important and necessary from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe, but they don't have to remain open at all costs.
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Poverty breeds crime even though most people want to be good. It is true that terrorists mostly come from the educated Middle and upper classes. Educational reform may be the solution, but it cannot be imposed from the outside. Let's face it: EVIL DOES EXIST IN THE WORLD.
Well Fareed you are almost always right.
But nope I disagree with you on this.
Terrorism is more ripe in poorer nations. It depends which kind of terrorism you are talking about:
- In Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq or another poor nation it is not uncommon to hear that a person commited suicide bombing not in the name of religion but because he was paid by someone to do so and he knew that his financially deprived and struggling family would get that money. Several documentaries and research have shown that.
- The terrorism that affects us in the West is different and could be where this article is relevant.
- It is noteworthy that EVERY nation that is most affected by suicide bombings are those where we have gone in to do this "war on terror". Only after we went into Afghanistan and got involved in Pakistan did those countries get plagued by suicide bombings. Don't forget the biggest victim of terrorism is in fact Pakistan which has lost 40,000 civilians and 10,000 troops since the war on terror began.
Even though you seem to think you are disagreeing it sounds like you actually agree. The way to make Pakistan a safer place is to stop giving them aid and pulling out troops out. Being there and not giving aid would make things worse. Giving aid and not being there would only make more Pakistani wealthy enough to become the type of terrorist that travels to other countries to perform terrorist acts.
So in short pull out and stop all aid.
For Bombay born American, Fareed should show that he knows more about Pakistan than the usual American guru. Pakistan is not a nation: its a country of 4 nations with borders drawn by 2 Brits.Population of 180 million, half that of the US or EU15. So very complcated, can't generalise. The 30 million Pushtoon differ in many ways from the dominant 90 million Punjabis who are 85% of the army which misrules the country. Its fixated on India, for " stealing Kashmir" at partition in 1947.
The 35 million Pushtoon (15 million west of the Durand Line in Afghanistan) paid a bitter price for the Soviet and US invasions of Afghanistan. The 5 milion refugees into Pustoonistan undermined the regional economy and society. Talebs are Pushtoon, not Pakistani in identity.
US has not given $20 billion/10 years = 2 billiony. It mostly for military supplies ansd stays in the US. Money goes from the Tresury to Pentgon buys second rate and overpriced arms from the usual suspects that are then sent to Pakistan. Through a lot of sticky fingers in Congress, K Street and Islamabad. So aid to Pakistan entoe, it was/iswento the Army, whicg
Althougg no American will admit it, it was the Afghans who smashed the Soviet Army, not NATO, CIA , Reagan or Charley Wilson. Thus destroying Moscow's ability to suppress Eastern Europe. So European Christians owe their freedom to Muslim Afghans . They didn't lift a single rifl or rouble.. Instead the people of Afghanistan and Pakistan were left with bill.
How much diid the West spend over 40 years to defend itself from the Red Army? How much now is the US giving Israel ?
That's like saying less well-off Americans cause wars since it is the sons and daughters of less affluent Americans who "volunteer" for military service.
You're ignoring history. Those who fomented the American Revolutionary War were not the poor. Nor was it the poor who instigated the French Revolution. Yasser Arafat wasn't destitute and ignorant...the list goes on.
Terrorism is more ripe in countries where the population is kept uneducated.
how about the newest tendency among Al Qaida to recruit well-off intellectuals, with decent standing and social status,
terror is bro with fanatism and drug hysteria
Our roads and bridges are falling apart. We are closing schools around the country.
How about we take care of our own house before trying to clean up someone else’s.
no retards it is our mess that we need to clean, we went in and broke down their countries, we need to clean it up and GTFO
That is what she said
Yea because that worked real well in Iraq .. and you call someone else a retard lol.
If we can’t take care of ourselves how to you expect us to take care of everyone else?
Amen
Dear Zakaria
A recent survey in Pakistan shows that 80% of Pakistanis wants an end to US aid to Pakistan. They also wanted an end to US interference in their nationa matters and assume that out of 20 Billion 18 Billion went to lure Top Brass to return US favors by means of turning blind eyes . Also 80-90 percentile of Pakistani assumes that Pakistan has lost more than 200 Billion due to US waged WOT which was a code name for their operation Capturing Afghanistan + Operation capturing cheap gas. Durig 2003 Turkey was asked to give "Passage Only" for 20 Billion dollar when Iraqi invasion was about to happen. So why Pakistan is getting Mere 20 Billion from supplies to manning post with 100000 solderis for 10 years and onwards. where as All nato Lost about 1000+ lives in Afghanistan, only Pakistan lost 10000 soldiers and 30K plus civilians. Beside this Pakistan have lost the advantage of secure westren borders which it has while Taliban were there. Also people of Pakistan belive thet China is the new light on the horizon and we can get compensated by China directly intead US borrow it from China and forward it to Pakistan. Keeping in mind the ground relalities and progress of "World Biggest Super Power" in Afghanistan all the Pakistanis wanted to seperate Pakistan with US interest in region becuase "if you are a blood suker than go to the body which have blood and leave the dead bodies alone ."
Well Mr Adnan dont get too fancy about CHINA ....its the biggest blood sucker.. people will come to know very soon...
For Pakistan yes its hard time and politicians are to blame for it ..Taliban is destroying all civil liberties and secular people ..
I am sure the pathans would honor thier histroy of being freedom fighters and self respected people ..they should not get into turning slaves and following taliban and other destructive forces..
Need people like -Khan abdul Gaffar khan to lead pathans /Baloches to live life thier way and stop being puppets to extremists/Taliban.
Look. Poverty drives extremism. However, empathetic wealthy people can become extremists "fighting for the good of the downtrodden." So, be careful – not all extremists are poor.
obl came from one of the wealthiest families.
LOL @ mike Let's just knock it all down to a simple meaningless sentence. That's facing like a man if I ever saw it.
Fareed Zakaria is an Indian and should use a iota of decency to excuse himself from reporting anything on Pakistan. Everyday he has an op-ed on Pakistan as if he is being paid by the Indian Government to do so. He never breaks down his figures and just blame everything on Pakistan. How about telling India to move the million men it has on Pakistan border back, so Pakistan can free up the well trained troops from its eastern border towards Afghan border. He will never do that.
Also, please spare me the He is an American. If this is true, he is just as American as Faisal Shahzad was.
Why do you always ask Indian to pullout the troops from border?
So that your Pakistani militant army can free up (infiltrate into Kashmir and Bombay to do more suiside bombings).
Thank god Indian army is protecting India's borders day and night from these terrorists...else India would have been turned into hell by these stupid Pakistanis.
Excellent analysis, Cass, whether one agrees with it or not.
We should stop all foreign aid immediately, keep the money at home to fix our schools, roads, infrastructure. I can't believe we don't have enough money for health care and Social Security but we are shipping $20 billion of our hard earned taxes abroad to a country who is not our ally and never will be. What did we get for our money – 10 more years of hunting OBL? There needs to be emergency legislation now to stop all of this nonsense funding.
"evil does exist in the world". What a simplistic cop out from facing serious questions such as..why does the US support dictators and prevent democracy and development in areas of the world with abundant resources?
Reasons for terrorism are many, and differs from region to region. No two countries are alike– historically, geographically and culturally. Failing to understand and these difference and the " one size should fit all" policies are the reasons turmoil in many countries. If there is one underlying core reason for terrorism then it is the feeling of " inferiority" felt by various societies as a result of " superiority " of westerners - technically, socially, economically. This coupled with colonisation has had devastating effects mentally and affecting the dignity of people in ancient societies such as the ones in asia and middle–east.
We Killin It – Barton Block
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wtf is this crap?
Made sure I took the time to go to the video and click dislike. Your music sucks.
This is not the place for your plug.
You can count on plenty of dislikes from here.
Looks more like you are killing yourself. Is this really a pic that you are proud of? Stupid &$##@!*
The really funny part of this video is that all these guys will be bent over in a prison or dead in the next 5 years.
I think Washington should channel all efforts to support governments that have education and anti curruption tendencies in their programms, I think monetary aids simply go to the wrong pockets and does nothing
Trouble is those nations don't need aid, heck they should be sending us aid.
ISLAM IS THE SCUM ON THE EARTH! IT MUST BE ERADICATED FOR THE SAKE OF HUMANITY!
Please viist :
FaithFreedom.org
JihadWatch.org
TheReligioinOfPeace.com to learn more about this evil.
Surely you are liar and a fear monger of great epic proportions.
ALL religions are for that matter the "SCUM" of the earth.
– The Crusaders of the 13th century killed every single non-Christian (i..e Jews and Muslims) in the name of religion.
– Israel was formed in the name of religion. The current illegal settlements are in the name of religion. Claiming ancestral ownership from 4000 years ago why? because their Bible says "God gave it to them". That is the hypocrisy of the world to not focus on that Judeo religious fundamentalism. More over that hypocirsy is one of that also fuels Islamic radicalism also.
- Radical Hindus have demolished mosques, churches. Killed Christian converts from Hinduism. etc. etc.
- The most amount of suicide bombings are done in a Buddist nation Sri Lanka by mostly Tamil Tigers who are mostly hindu.
- The list goes on and on about every religion.
It is true that we hear about the Mid east nations mostly because they are the ones with the MOST amount of FOREIGN occupation and deaths! So violence does beget more violence. End the Cycle already!
So your one sided and narrow minded fear mongering is not useful to the health of the current climate of world peace.
Only one leader has the right answer to the solutions of today's problem and that is Ron Paul!!!! Vote RON PAUL!
Great points and all true mr. finkelman_phd!
I know an older guy that lost a son on 9/11, MadMo's post would about sum up the way he feels and I can't say i don't understand...I don't agree but i do understand. /shrug.
You omitted ongoing violence that is committed by muslims around the world now and not hundreds of years ago in dark ages. Europe was a stage of two bitter wars now lives peacefully without even borders. The only violence happens in Europe when muslim extremists are committing terror acts. Hopefully you just overlooked this.
Please speak for your own religion. There are enough peaceful religions around the world. For example, ever heard of Buddhism? You can not put Islam in the same category as other religions. You want to ignore the 99% of terrorist activity related to Islam by focusing on the remaining 1% from everyone else.
Finkleman–phd said: "Israel was formed in the name of religion. The current illegal settlements are in the name of religion. Claiming ancestral ownership from 4000 years ago why? because their Bible says "God gave it to them". That is the hypocrisy of the world to not focus on that Judeo religious fundamentalism. More over that hypocirsy is one of that also fuels Islamic radicalism also."
sanjosemike responds: Actually, you're wrong. Jews lived in discrete city-states in the ME with self governing units for at least a thousand years before Islam. This is true of the areas that you charge Israelis' claim due to divine providence.
Jews lived there. Period. It has nothing to do with the bible.
It's actually a bit more complicated, Fareed. True, it is not the poor who turn to violence. But the frustrated middle class men who become terrorists fancy themselves champions of the poor. If they lived in societies experiencing more broad-based prosperity, they would not have an impetus for heroics.
I partially agree with you. There are always exceptions in every issue. In England a couple of doctors of Asian origin were arrested in 2007 for planning to set off car bombs in London and Glasgow.
Educated individuals from the middle-class are prone to react strongly towards social injustice, as they know it's not right and are ready to fight against it. The poor and the uneducated in general are more prone to believe in destiny and accept their lot of life. In Gaza on the other hand, young people fall prey to Jihadists and are recruited as suicide bombers. As poverty doesn't necessary breed terrorism, it is the driving force of many revolutions.
The educated middle class played an important role in the French Revolution 1789 and the same was the case in the Russian Revolution 1917. The Chinese Revolution was led by proletariats, yet there were intellectuals like Chou Enlai among them as well.
Or, I should say: "heroics" - with the scare quotes.
WHY COULDN'T ALL AFGHAN GIRLS LOOK LIKE HER?
The war would be over if they could be like that.
because they are not as ugly, or pretty if you may say!
If you think about it, forming a cohesive terrorist network, like Al Qaeda or Lashkar e Taiba, requires a vast amount of resources (as Fareed noted in an earlier post after Osama bin Laden's death, usually from a state sponsored source). Creating connections of support requires political and social savvy about how the more socioeconomically privileged and elite members of society act and go about their business, particularly the nature of national politics. I also doubt the poor would be educated or savvy enough to form such complex ideologies as those held by Al Qaeda.
In the USA Congress breeds poverty. Poverty breeds hatred by the poor, especially for Republican Congressmen. Sooner or later, this hatred will create a revolution.
So basically Freed is proposing stop aid to Pakistan and increase in poverty will reduce terrorism. I bet if US stop aid to Pakistan then all collage Graduate will end up in extremest group cuz there will be not jobs for them in the market. Talibans were born in religious schools which relied on charities. Peacefull Poor hates terrorism, revengeful poor make terrorism.
So what this is saying is that the US is providing aid to the poor people of Pakistan (which seems good) and now we know that these people are also among the most opposed to the militant groups (which also sounds like a good thing). I would say that this doesn't sound that bad to me.
I wonder though, if the US were to stop aid and abandon these people, would that prompt them to be more supportive of the militant groups?
yes, in one way, that might be what Fareed is trying to say.
Let the aid stop, let more people plunge in to poverty- more poor, more opposition to extremism.
I wish it was that simple.
It takes little time for the public sentiment to change. The urban poor who curse the militants for their lost livelihoods may well land in to their (militant) camp, if the Pakistani state further withdraws (from its responsibilities of providing bare necessities like food, clothing, shelter, water, education).
As a Pakistani however, I would have loved to engage with the US in a different manner. Not as "a strategic ally" but as a partner in development .
We Killin It – Barton Block
*********** WE FEED OFF THE HATE WE'RE GETTING OFF ALL THESE INTERNET HATERS ************
HAHAAAAAAAAAAA
I hope you are successful so we don't have to pay your welfare or future hospital bills under Obamacare.
Looks like a fun party. A bunch of dudes lifting their shirts up and dancing on each other. Coooooooolllllll!!!!!
Fareed is still masquerading as a journalist I see.
"What if you learn that there's actually no correlation between being poor and supporting Islamic extremism?"
Indeed! Then we are compelled to ask ourselves..."What behavioral modifications must the adversaries of Guerrilla extremists make in order to defuse threats?"
Over and over I see the same pattern in history repeating itself. The 100 year struggle for Ireland to shed the protestant occupation in Ulster, the 60 year struggle between Palestinians and Israel, the recent struggle between fundamentalist Islamicists and Western hegemony in the Middle East, all are the same story.
It's never been about the poverty. It's always been a struggle between ideologies.
Sadly, our American brand of Democracy is loosing currency as it is neither authentic nor judging by cyclical gyrations, sustainable.
Political extremism ends, if and when the world succeeds in forging ideologies that are authentically egalitarian, and that embrace the rights of peoples of all religions, races and socio-economic strata.
yes our tax money at work; why do we give these scumbag muslim loosers anything; we buy their oil at fair prices thats enough;allah will give them what they need
I won't question the results of the study since I obviously don't have any research to argue otherwise, but I can confidently state that the poor are often targeted by these groups for recruitment. The Taliban pays these people a significant sum (compared to their daily wages) to assist in attacks or even a form of "life insurance" payout to loved ones if they recruit a suicide bomber. Whether or not these people like the militants, they're certainly assisting them.
Indeed. It is a well-accepted truism that police forces anywhere in the world remain corrupt and largely ineffective until their wages rise to the point that they are no longer in need of additional income to support their families. So the 'soldiers' of militant groups will continue to come from the poorest demographic. What no one seems to want to admit is that the LEADERS of any cult or so-called 'terrorist' group are not stable, rational people, they are psychopaths. Each and every one of them. If our political leaders and the media consistently said "The search for the psychopath Osama Bin Laden is over..." or "Muhammar Ghadafi, the mentally-ill megalomaniac who illegitimately robbed the Libyan people of a democratic government..." then a great deal of their apparent legitimacy is removed. More here: http://bit.ly/kHHkMj
Father of Pakistan's nation Mr. Jeena created Pakistan out of conflict. Same seed of conflict grown in psyche of Pakistan and made it instable and ignorant on subject of living peacefully. There are many poor in India and other countries. India got its independence at the same time. Why world is not looking at India with suspicion as terrrorist supporting state ? This comparision is obvious because it was the same county divided by British rule. One brother India is progressing so well and admired by whole world where as other brother Pakistan is being criticized, have doubts on, why ? This is fundamental question Pakistand need to answer first. If they can realized the fact on this fundamental question and act themselves sincerly upon it then this issue can be resolved. Providing financial help with motive to bring peace and prosperity is not going to work for Pakistan till they do something about it sincerly, honestly and in matured way.
The reality is the more people you feed the more energy they have to make more babies and a greater chance of more terrorist ! To me the actual reason is investment in countries to be able to sell them future arms and other products . The old saying goes the more babies that are born . The more things we can sell them. The more people the greater chance of war ! The more war there is the more products we can sell them. It's a win win machine for the wealthy .
What is interesting about this article and the study it discusses is that it dismisses the link between abject poverty and terrorism that seems otherwise intuitive. What, I believe, Mr. Zakaria is risking here, though, is understating the correlation between economic development and terrorism. I think it is important to note the correlation between joblessness and violence/terrorism. A strikingly large percentage of AQ, IRA, LET terrorists etc. would be classified as middle class and most have above average levels of education as noted above, yet all of them come from underdeveloped nations rife with under employment and joblessness. The worry then is not one class or another, but is the employment rate and economy as a whole.
The poor are worried only about theirs and their families next meal. The middle class not as concerned with the origin of the next meal, however, seek control, power and fulfillment amongst the chaos of their daily lives (Maslow's Hierarchy). The majority of those who succumb to the pull of terrorism and violence, I surmise, are not particularly violent men. They are men castrated by the inability to consistently support their families, to rise up and achieve. They feel powerless to overcome the constraints of the system in which they find themselves entangled, so they actively begin seeking some other way to lash out. Truly evil men, equally misguided, grab hold of them and tell them that they will find meaning, power and and good consistent pay in the destruction of the creator of the very system which oppresses them. They give them guns and point west towards what they have convinced them is creator of that system and is the origin of their problems.
I believe had they had jobs comensurate with their levels of education and ambition, and at least the feeling of autonomy they would not have become terrorists (b/c their mortgage, car payment, and jr's tuition would have kept them at the office/machine shop/factory...). And while I am not in favor of spending, and invite study on the effectiveness of financial aid to corrupt governments, I believe financial/economic support has its place (see The End of Poverty by Jeffrey Sachs).
I think God I live in a place where I can pursue my dreams and provide for my family. Among the many things i would attribute to the creation and success of such a place is a free and responsible press. Mr. Zakaria, a man I respect very much, has fallen short of that standard by plainly endorsing a study (without caveats) that is but a single outlier among years of study and dismissing good economic/psychological sense.
The US should STOP ALL FOREIGN AID until our own country has returned to prosperity.
Agreed Bob
Here Here!!!
With the exception of charitable giving through private charities to support disaster relief, poverty, and medical relief programs.
Giving money to corrupt regimes only makes us poorer, and lines the crooks pockets.
After all, Osama bin Laden was a product of the elite class, not from poverty.
My son-in-law spent two years in the peace corps in Kenya. According to him foreign aid has hurt that country. He said that all the peace corps workers he knows feel this way. US aid to these countries is a hand out and not a hand up.
Look at Haiti. All they know how to do is have more and more babies. Their population is out of control. This is a result of well meaning US aid. Eventually millions will die because of it.
The Catholic church deserves the blame for much of the over population in third-world countries. If they would not only OK but also provide and teach birth control it would do wonders. Instead they ask me for money to feed ever more starving Catholic babies.
The finance we pump in to prop up regimes ( our allies ) which are at the street level indistinguishable ( sometimes worse ) from our publicized enemies/opponents in my opinion drives an overwhelming disbelief in regards our motives and in fact, real adherence to the principles we like to talk about. Does that resonate with the poor who struggle to live from day to day, no. It resonates with the middle and upper classes, who see hypocrisy on a rather grand scale and react. What they see is opportunism, exploitation and no adherence to principle – a bad combination with us as the focus. I suspect they see us as the enabling source for their problems in many cases.
The poor and downtrodden may blame the US for their plight but when they resort to violence it is usually directed at their own leaders (Arab Spring). Given the dictatorial nature of most of the Mideast nations (and Pakistan, Afghanistan, et al), very little of our monetary aid ever reaches the lower class, usually being used by those in power to stay in power.
The friends that you buy are also for sale to your enemies.
Wizard1234, I just love your posts. I've never read one I don't agree with. Keep it up. You have readers.
sanjosemike
I thought it was a democracy in Pakistan that was brokered in part by the last US govt that ordered Musharraf to drop easy corruption cases against BHutto / zardari (known as Mr. 10%) to have a "viable partner" in Pakistan. I don't get why the US follows such stupid policies but then we know what kind of people sit in the congress! Ask hillary about any thing and she will blame bush like her time in the Senate supporting iraq war or these deals don't count.
Sent all the terrorists to re-education camps in China, North Korea or Vietnam. islamic terrorists do not exist in communist countries.
NOBODY ever bought that line about 'poverty breeds terror' except gullible and guilt-ridden first world politicians and intellectuals.
It was created by neo-marxists who wish to portray every evil of the modern world as somehow caused by inequality of wealth due to free market economics.
The ONE kind of foreign aid rarely discussed by Media is tourism. Tourism actually puts real money in the hands of people in the target country that provide services to tourists. Governmental foreign aid ends up in numbered Swiss bank accounts for the military and bureaucrats. So...if you want to actually help the poor and middle class of a country, go there and spend your money. That will get into the hands of people who actually need it.
Now, how many of you want to go as a tourist to Pakistan?
OK, don't all crowd around. Nobody? Are you sure?
Maybe that's what you need to tell those countries that want to go back to 14th Century Islam. Nobody is going to come there because the West is hated. If you have no oil, or we are not using your oil anymore, you're sunk.
You can take your Islam and put it where the sun doesn't shine.
sanjosemike
We need to keep the money here, in our country. Pay down our nation's debt, restart the economy, bring innovation back to our shores. These people in other countries will gladly eat our food, sleep under our blankets, and live in a better home. However, at the first opportunity will continue to spew anti-US hate, and always try to kill us!
PeteMD, I fear you are correct. But non-intervention/pacifism is just another policy that has to be evaluated based upon its usefulness. There is a cost to non-intervention. It usually means that indigenous populations are at risk from their own despots without any intervention. This results in ethnic cleansing and even genocide. Then there is the issue of intelligence. Without any presence, we know nothing of what they're actually doing, except by satellites.
Non-intervention also means we have little or no impact on what happens and how it will eventually play out with us. There are more disadvantages to non-intervention and pacism.
It is often a reasonable course of action. But it has advantages and disadvantages...like any OTHER foreign policy.
sanjosemike
Our roads and bridges are falling apart. We are closing schools around the country.
How about we take care of our own house before trying to clean up someone else’s. When we are standing on our own two feet again, we can revisit helping others. If we collapse who will send them their Welfare check?
sanjosemike – I do agree with what you are saying, and I would not call myself a pacifist or non-interventionist. However, with our economy in the tank, we need to stop throwing so much of our money around the globe to countries who will hate us anyway, and go further in debt to China, and use some of our resources to brace up our nation and bring it back from the brink.
The western born and educated terrorists of Pakistani origin confirm that terrorism is a result of sustained systematic efforts in terms of brainwashing, indoctrination, funds, training and logistical support, which Pakistan has been provoding for at least a generation.
If poverty was the cause for extremism then India, being the country with most poor, would be the land of terrorists, but the fact is to the contrary where people are traditionally spiritual regardless of their economic conditions.
Drop the pen , back away from the checkbook . We need to quit trying to buy friends .
Agreed Bill
The survey doesn’t seems to account for the fact that we've been pumping money into the poorer areas of Pakistan for the past 10 years and that MAY have changed their opinion of militant factions. The survey only says that they NOW don't agree with them. Did they before? This is a flawed survey if it didn't take this into consideration. Additionally, Ireland was a completely different situation. There was intense divisiveness within society (catholic/protestants)-also recognizing they were an occupied land. In Pakistan there is no such social conflict. Militants are using religion, history, and poverty to brainwash individuals into action against “foreigners.”
In many countries, U.S. aid probably does not reach its intended recipients because it gets siphoned off by corrupt officials, with some of it being distributed to their middle class political retainers (the 10% or so of a corrupt society comprising those who keep the masses in line and those who might be able to do something about it but are content to look the other way). It might well be that, for many poor people in the world, an end to U.S. aid would mean that their oppressors are less well funded and, therefore, less dangerous.
I'm a little thrown by their methods. Without getting too technical, I think their method of pooling groups will introduce a bias into their regression model. They need a more generalized model.
This survey makes sense though you have to be careful how to interpret it. Probably the biggest reason that aid to the poor has not helped alleviate extremism is that the aid is not really helped address poverty. As Fareed points out there needs to be more strict accountability in that regard. Aid should be precisely targeted and should be withdrawn when results are not forthcoming.
But even more than that, while it is true that the leaders of these fanatical groups hire foot soldiers from the poorest classes, their are plenty of regions with very poor people that have little extremism. Consider that while Pakistan is a hotbed for it, India has little in the way of extremism despite a huge portion of the population in poverty. India and Pakistan also both have bodies of educated people and there is access to technology for weapons in both. The bigots will point out that the difference is Islam and they are actually half right. The U.S. and some other countries have built a track record of interfering in Muslim nations for a long time (some of that interference simply being providing financial aid to governments). Though some of that interference has been selfish much of it has indeed been motivated by good intentions. But we need to ask ourselves where those good intentions have gotten us. Because Muslims tend to see themselves as more united than a lot of other religious groups our actions in one part of the Muslim world tend reverberate our that whole sphere.
Consider Egypt, though. Despite our trying to aid the Egyptians for decades (and indeed gaining positive results in gaining a useful ally in the Middle East) the Arab Spring protesters in Egypt basically feel that we propped up a corrupt regime for decades at the expense of the people. This is a simple example of our intentions backfiring.
IMHO we need to be more careful about when and how we get involved in the affairs of other nations.
Just because the indian conflicts aren't directed against the US, it doesn't mean that maoists, kashmir etc don't exist.
There is also another issue that india has successfully kept arms out of the reach of its citizens unlike Pakistan, where the afghan war didn't help any deweaponization efforts.
Islame breeds extremism. And also sheep.
Poverty is only part of the equation. When your religion tells you, over and over again, that (fill in the 'diety' of your choice) will take care of you and doesn't - and you look around and see the (fill in your term for 'infidels') prospering - that's what seeds extremism. The inability to make what 'you believe' and what 'you see' explainable. Well it's not.
IF there was an all powerful diety - NOT providing for you and yours - that diety seems to be saying "I don't have time for you." So, anger is redirected to those your religion teaches are "unworthy".
Nothing in the article surprises me. I suspect the authors say in their paper (which I have not read) that this just confirms what they already suspected. It has long been observed that revolutionaries come from the better off social classes.
Support or reject economic aid on its merits, not some intuitive but anti-historical illusion that economic aid stops violent insurgency.
$14B to fight the war on terror and we find that the #1 world-wide, most-hunted terrorist was living there for FIVE F–KING YEARS. Cut our losses and just pave Pakistan.
US Army spends mich much much more in the war in afghanistan, so why hasn't progress been made against drugs or the much touted ANA? With all the supposed "goodwill" and a helpful Pakistan (face it snobs the Pakis are not giving taliban stingers etc to shoot down american choppers), america is still going the way Soviets did in the eighties inside afghanistan.
...and we know where that got the Soviets. So why do we do this again?!
Not sure about the title's premise, but generally, extremism eventually breeds poverty.
Well lets not ignore this.Pakistani elite and military brass is extremely corrupt and they are stealing all that aid money,do you think Pakis elite is spending our billions of dollars for the development of poor.....NO.....all that money is being stolen and transferred to corrupt politicians and Army general's bank accounts.
The title is meant to make the reader instantly reflect on conservativism in the USA and the false stereotype of the left (whose extremists are generally Hollywood Millionaires).
...and wealthty media types
No...but ignorance does breed stupidity
Poverty and ignorance breed extremism. However, the USA can't throw money at the problem and just expect it to go away.
The problem isn't solved and the Pakistanis now more than ever would think the US would leave with all the "fiscal woes" in the Congress just like the eighties and cut military aid just like it did to a SEATO / CENTO ally in 1965 / 1971. But I bet no one discusses that, so there you go about any understanding of what is happening there.
If you look at the instability in Germany during the Weimar Goverment in the 20's and early 30's after the economy collapsed, it's impossible to argue that poverty did NOT provide a window for the Nazi Party and it's extremist views to grow.
If I remember correctly, both the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition were headed by some of the wealthier Christians of the time. Seems to me that having money is just as likely to make people think it is their duty to violently attack and persecute those who don't share their religious beliefs.
My former countryman Mr. FAREED ZAKARIA is EXPOSING HIMSELF more & more with his TURN COAT JOURNALISM, just to please his big wigs. Here are some findings. I can add a ton more! Actually the following is a WIP (work in process) I will try to get more links later. But teh following are exclnt.points to showcase his dubious reports camoflaged literally as policy guidelines for the Obama admin. to follow!).
1) He has OFF-LATE been opposing nation building in the Muslim countries saying that America should not be wasting its money when it can yield no tangible result.
Here’s what Mr. Zakaria said title “Fareed Zakaria: Islam, Democracy, and Constitutional Liberalism” May 28th 2007
a) “If we could choose one place to press hardest to reform, it should be Egypt. Egypt is the intellectual soul of the Arab world.
There is another possible candidate for the role: Iraq. The United States must engage in a serious long-term project of nation building, because Iraq could well become the first major Arab country to combine Arab culture with economic dynamism, religious tolerance, liberal politics, and a modern outlook on the world. And success is infectious.
2) While most of the time he blames America, Israel and Europe for much of the hatred in the Muslim world against us refer articles below), he also says that that it’s the Madarasa inspired fundamental Muslim ideology that makes them hate us in whatever we do.
a) How We Lost (the battle to earn goodwill in the Muslim world!) – How America overreacted to 9-11
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/04/zakaria-why-america-overreacted-to-9-11.html
b) Don’t Panic – How our frenzied response to terrorism only feeds it.
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/01/08/don-t-panic.html
c) The Politics of Rage – Why do they hate us, Newsweek Aug 22, 20007
Here’s what he said “we can ally with these dictatorships and still push them toward reform. For those who argue that we should not engage in nation-building, I would say foreign policy is not theology. I have myself been skeptical of nation-building in places where our interests were unclear and it seemed unlikely that we would stay the course. In this case, stable political development is the key to reducing our single greatest security threat. We have no option but to get back into the nation-building business.
And., here’s what he’s saying now:
d) Fareed’s Take: Counter Terrorism Vs. Nation Building – CNN GPS – May 8th, 2011
“But the trouble is comprehensive counterinsurgency, nation building, is a much larger, more expensive and inherently more difficult mission for an outside power like America. America gets seen as wanting to dominate other countries, imposing its will, being imperialistic. It is easy to excite nationalist opposition against the 800-pound superpower. Counterterrorism, by contrast, is something we can do well. It requires good intelligence, of course, but also super military work, and that is something the American military shines at.”
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1105/08/fzgps.01.html
e) Here’s what Fareed Zakaria said on why many Muslims hate America: “In the past thirty years, Saudi-funded madrasas have churned out tens of thousands of half-educated, fanatical Muslims who view the modern world and non-Muslims with great suspicion. America in this world-view is almost always uniquely evil. What were once small, extreme strains of Islam, limited to parts of the Middle East, have taken root around the world–in the globalization of radical Islam.
3) Fareed Zakaria has been on a crusade seeking democratic rights in the ME, condemning their current rulers including Hosni Mubarak and others as brutal, barbaric etc.
And here’s what he has been saying all along:
a) That ME countries are not ripe for democracy:
“Fareed Zakaria claims that Middle Eastern governments do not have the chance of being democratic because if free elections are held in these countries, the regimes that would replace autocratic or monarchical systems would be more fundamentalist, oppressive and hostile towards West. "The Arab rulers of the Middle East are autocratic, corrupt, and heavy-handed. But they are still more liberal, tolerant and pluralistic than those who would likely replace them"[25]. He gives the example of the liberal king Abdullah of Jordan in addition to Egypt's Hosni Mubarak and clearly shows his idea that democracy cannot be used to destroy democracy.”
http://www.caspianweekly.org/en/main-subjects/turkish-foreign-policy/1959-turkeys-role-in-the-organization-of-islamic-conference-jdp-government-and-the-greater-middle-east-project.html
b) Fareed Zakaria – “Democracy cannot take roots in countries with per capita incomes less than $7,000 (with the sole exception of India)”
Fareed Zakaria (2003 and 2008) has observed that, once the threshold of $6,000 to $7,000 per capita income is crossed, it becomes much easier for democracy to survive, and that the connection between per capita income and the life expectancy of a democracy holds true going far back in history. In his 2003 volume, he noted (pp. 69-70): “Of course some poor countries have become democracies. But when countries become democratic at low levels of development, their democracy usually dies … Once rich, democracies become immortal. Thirty-two democratic regimes have existed at incomes above roughly $9,000 for a combined total of 736 years. Not one has died. By contrast, of the 69 democratic regimes that were poorer, 39 failed – a death rate of 56 percent.” Of course, there are exceptions to the rule. India has been able to maintain a democratic system despite its poverty. For its part, Saudi Arabia has provided its citizens with relatively high standards of living, despite its largely autocratic political system. Such countries are, however, outliers – and, in both cases, their deviation from the norm can be explained by the impact of critical variables that easily can be identified (e.g., historical legacies in the case of India, and oil with regard to Saudi Arabia).
http://www.usaid.gov/locations/sub-saharan_africa/publications/docs/guide_to_drivers_of_ve.pdf
c) Fareed Zakaria “As a start, the West must recognize that it does not seek democracy in the Middle East–at least not yet. We seek first constitutional liberalism, which is very different. Clarifying our immediate goals will actually make them more easily attainable.”
http://johnfenzel.typepad.com/john_fenzels_blog/2007/05/fareed_zakaria_.html
d) Fareed Zakara “Israel has become the great excuse for much of the Arab world, the way for regimes to deflect attention from their own failures.”
While most other times he bashes Israeli & US policies for much of the failures in the ME and the hatredness for America.
http://johnfenzel.typepad.com/john_fenzels_blog/2007/05/fareed_zakaria_.html
Amit-Atlanta-USA
"Third, the people who hate militants the most are the urban poor, probably because more than any other group they're the ones who are affected by terror attacks – bombs in subways or cafes or whatever."
..."or whatever?" lol did you have a 15 yr old girl write this? Like, whatever?
Several countries have Poverty. If Poverty is directly related to Government Failure / Inaction then Terror may breed in such situations (e.g. MAOIST movement in India). But the main problem here is Religion. Go to Pakistan where the Government itself and Religious leaders do NOT want the regular education / schools. They want RADICAL ISLAMIC education in MADRASAS (Religious Schools) => These are the ACTUAL places where People are Brain-Wased and Terrorism is born and it thrives again and again. Sending money to such countries actually makes such institutions stronger. Leaders of ISLAM are taking their followers into a dark world and giving ISLAM a bad name. America should do every effort to stop the ISLAMIC SCHOOLS and PROMOTE and MONITOR the regular schools.
Does poverty breed extremism? Well indirectly it does. Fareed, you've kind of botched another article haven't you?
It's is much easier to bend the will and thoughts of the masses when they are desperate, poor and they have little hope in their futures. And that is what history's real evil men do and have done. It's where they get their power. But the mistake is often made that the masses of a people are evil or that they together devised some of history's most heinous plots and tragedies and this is simply not the case.
So perhaps it would be better stated that poverty breeds opportunity for evil men to grow extremism in the fertile minds of the desperate and downtrodden. That is, I think, much more accurate a description of how this occurs. And unless we recognize it, recognize how & why it occurs and where it eventually leads, we will see it happen again. And again. And again. And if you agree with Fareed here than I will guarantee it.
This may be true. But the reason why crime rates are higher in poorer neighborhoods is because its harder for the poor to fight crime. They aren't criminals just because they're poor. The criminals move in BECAUSE the poor can't stop them. They don't have the resources. What can the poor do to prevent an extremist group from working in their neighborhoods? It's not about worrying that the poor will become terrorists, its about giving them the power to keep extremists from getting a foothold in their neighborhood.
The last sentence if the article sums it all up.
This study just further proves what many groups are already working for in Pakistan. Regardless of his reputation for his recent book scandal, Greg Mortenson has been saying for ten years that lack of education in Pakistan causes terrorism. Poverty does not. It is the middle and upper class citizens that build madrassas (Taliban/al Qaeda centers for education). If the Pakistani government would provide funding to build schools, then the impoverished would have other options. As of now, the madrassas are their only opportunities for an education. Sadly, these madrassas teach Taliban ethics and influence the younger generations to believe that America is a horrible, oppressive place. So in a roundabout way, poverty causes extremist terrorism because poverty causes a lack of education.
This study just further proves what many groups are already working for in Pakistan.This study claims that poverty is not the source of terrorism. However, poverty does lead to what causes terrorism: lack of education. Because the Pakistani government cannot afford to build schools for its most impoverished villages, the children are forced to seek and education somewhere else. It is the middle and upper class citizens that build madrassas (Taliban/al Qaeda centers for education). If the Pakistani government would provide funding to build schools, then the impoverished would have other options. As of now, the madrassas are their only opportunities for an education. Sadly, these madrassas teach Taliban ethics and influence the younger generations to believe that America is a horrible, oppressive place. So in a roundabout way, poverty causes extremist terrorism because poverty causes a lack of education.
Fareed is only partially right. Let's keep opur money yes, but let's bring our troops and most foreign military bases home as well. I'd rather plow that money into domestic infrastructure, education, and job creation. It's a lot of dough. I relly don't think these impoversihed peopole will be attacking the US. We have the technology to watch them and hit them with drones if they act up.
Poverty doesn't make terrorists, and poverty doesn't make criminals. radical terrorists and criminals both come from the lack of a moral value system. During the great depression in this county, poverty was widespread. But we were a fairly moral country with a widespread acceptance of Christian values. (Even taught in the schools.) The result was that poverty did not produce rampaging mobs or widespread crime. People worked together and helped each other.
wrong morals or weak morals ... lead to terrorism, crime, violence, etc. .... poverty can just add to the problem . but then the rich and powerful that have wrong morals or weak morals can be just as violent.
Poverty Breeds CRIME, Religion/Failth breeds Terrorism! Not sayign terrorism isnt crime. it is, a much dangerous form of it.
How religions/faith use poverty victims cannot be blamed on poverty. A poor man in desperation from within [without outside influence] will only think of theft etc, ... but a poor man in desperation can turn into a terrorist WIth outside influence [when Religion etc support it]
Their crazy religion spawns extremists! All the money in the world can't cure crazy. Plus, we can't save the world! Its ridiculous and arrogant to think we can.
Bingo, we have a winner! At its height, the Islamic expansionist empires were certainly 'extreme' and very wealthy. The 'extremists' today want to recapture the glory of the past by imposing 'pure' Islam. The ideology has nothing to do with poverty and has been proven by the fact that its strongest adherents tend to come from backgrounds of wealth and privilege. Linking poverty to extremism, while it sounds logical to a liberal-minded worldview, holds no weight when compared to the facts.
Extremism can easily indirectly create poverty too ...
poverty breeds criminal / malicious intent. There is no doubt about that. I am an educated American with a degree in business, and despite this small success my family lives in poverty. This concept alone tears at me daily as I struggle to be something more than "poor" and give my family what I believe it deserves. There are times when our utilities face shut off, or when rent is late and I feel my only option to avoid being evicted and find my family living on the streets is to commit crimes such as theft and burglary. These traits have never been known to me, but the position poverty puts me in has me debating on taking such actions. Having poverty forced upon me by a corporate culture that ensures employees are low-paid and the fact that 90% of America's wealth is held by the top 10% has also set the mood of hatred towards the rich and elite. So the question is, am I an extremist for wanting what i feel I deserve, or is the top 10% wage earners of America the extremists for hoarding money, displaying and portraying greed, and ensuring that their "lessors" will always remain "lessors"? Personally I think extremism that takes lives is more justified than corporate extremism that all but ensures that hard working Americans are still left with next to nothing. A quick death is easier than a slowly decaying existence where everyday is a fight for food and a home. Never thought you'd hear that from a white American born christian with a college degree did you? Face the facts America, your people are left to fend for themselves on very uneven terms.
The people create the culture, not the other way around. Groups of people often times end up in poverty because of the choices that they have made. 3rd world nations are the way that they are because of the people that made them.
We have groups like Aryan nation. They are formed because these people are losers.
does poverty breed extremism....lets see.....DUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
poverty is not a main source of extremism, or crime, basically corrouption and poverty develop extremism or crimes in a society. If you consider Pakistan the hottest example the elite class or main people are doing corrouptions what ever they getting the money it is drainning out from the main society and moving towards only this class so inferiority,unsecureity is develop among the common people so these peoples are exploited by the extreme people or leadrs they use them for there means.
poverty has always created extremism
communism and nazism are results of poverty
extremism generally comes out of the upper classes... someone in the upper classes wants to challenge the old guard, so they whip up any group they think will follow them by making promises they never keep. Extremism is about the new oppressor wanting to displace the old one. Liars all.
Why are we sending billions of dollars to Pakistan? To fight a war against terrorists/bin Laden or to protect megacorporations that take jobs from Americans and give them to terrorists? Half of Pakistan was “sad” because bin Laden was dead? See why we are sending billions on the American Business Council of Pakistan website. ABC was formed in 1984 – it is a chamber of U.S. Businesses and one of the largest group of single country overseas investors in Pakistan . ABC has completed 26 years of service to Pakistan . They have 67 Members who operate in all sectors of the economy – most of whom are Fortune 500 companies. Beside adherence to the highest quality standards, their members bring in the latest and most sophisticated technology to the country. 26 Years of Service to Pakistan ! To encourage and stimulate U.S. investment in Pakistan and to promote the development of commerce between the United States of America and Pakistan
ABBOTT LABORATORIES (PAKISTAN ) LTD.
ACE INSURANCE LIMITED
ACNIELSEN PAKISTAN (PVT.) LTD.
AGILITY LOGISTICS (PVT.) LTD
AMERICAN LIFE INSURANCE COMPANY ( PAKISTAN ) LIMITED.
AT&T GLOBAL NETWORK SERVICES INTERNATIONAL INC.
AVANZA SOLUTIONS (PVT.) LTD.
BECTON DICKINSON PAKISTAN (PVT.) LTD.
BP PAKISTAN EXPLORATION & PRODUCTION INC
CAPTAIN-PQ CHEMICAL INDUSTRIES (PVT.) LTD.
CHEVRON PAKISTAN LTD.
CISCO SYSTEMS PAKISTN (PVT.) LTD
CITIBANK, N.A.
CRESCENT BAHUMAN LIMITED
COCA-COLA BEVERAGES PAKISTAN LTD.
THE COCA-COLA EXPORT CORPORATION
COLGATE-PALMOLIVE (PAKISTAN) LTD.
Continental Biscuits Ltd.
DUPONT PAKISTAN OPERATIONS (PVT.) LTD.
ELI LILLY PAKISTAN (PVT.) LTD.
EL PASO TECHNOLOGY PAKISTAN (PVT.) LTD.
EMC INFORMATION SYSTEMS (PVT) LTD.
FMC UNITED (PVT.) LTD.
GERRY'S INTERNATIONAL (PVT.) LTD. (FedEx) .
GILLETTE PAKISTAN LIMITED
IBM
INTEL PAKISTAN CORPORATION
INTERNATIONAL FRANCHISES (PVT) LTD
JOHNSON & JOHNSON PAKISTAN (PVT.) LTD.
JOHAN (PVT.) LTD.
J.P. MORGAN PAKISTAN (PVT.) LIMITED
KARAM CERAMICS LIMITED
LEVI STRAUSS PAKISTAN (PVT.) LIMITED
LMK RESOURCES PAKISTAN LTD.
MCR (PVT.) LTD. (Pizza Hut)
MICROSOFT CORPORATION PAKISTAN LIAISON OFFICE
MOTOROLA LIMITED
MONSANTO PAKISTAN AGRITECH (PVT.) LTD.
MULLER & PHIPPS PAKISTAN (PVT.) LTD.
NCR CORPORATION
NEW HAMPSHIRE INSURANCE COMPANY
NETSOL TECHNOLOGIES LTD.
OBS PAKISTAN (PVT) LTD
OPTIMUS LTD.(HERTZ)
ORACLE CORPORATION SINGAPORE PTE LTD.
PEPSI-COLA INTERNATIONAL (PVT.) LTD.
PFIZER PAKISTAN LTD.
PHILIP MORRIS (PAKISTAN) LTD.
PRESTIGE COMMUNICATIONS (PVT) LTD.
PROCTER & GAMBLE PAKISTAN (PVT.) LTD.
RAFHAN MAIZE PRODUCTS CO. LTD.
RENFRO CRESCENT (PVT.) LTD
RIAZ BOTTLERS (PVT.) LTD. (Pepsi-Cola)
S.C. JOHNSON & SON OF PAKISTAN
SHERATON MIDDLE EAST MANAGEMENT CORPORATION
SINGER PAKISTAN LIMITED
SIZA FOODS (PVT.) LTD. (McDonald's)
TERADATA GLOBAL CONSULTING PAKISTAN (PVT) LTD
TRG (PVT) LTD.
UNISYS PAKISTAN (PVT.) LIMITED
UNIVERSAL LOGISTICS SERVICES (PVT) LTD.
WACKENHUT PAKISTAN (PVT.) LTD.
WPP MARKETING COMMUNICATIONS (PVT) LTD.
VISA INC.
VISION NETWORK TELEVISION LTD. (CNBC)
3M PAKISTAN (PVT.) LTD.
ASSOCIATE MEMBERS
SUNSOFT (PVT.) LTD.
Among other things, to begin with, the myth of lack of education or poverty causing "terrorism" is one of the dodges the New World order used form the start to avoid admitting that anger against the U.S. comes from craven corporate criminality destabilizing legitimate govenrments fomenting illegitimate insurrections, stoking clan enmities, corrupting government officials and replacing elected leaders with dictators "friendly to American interests". The NWO doesn't want to acknowledge it was America's implacable war on the "rank and file" of other nations that led to anger against the U.S. today! They're going to have to come up with another "explanation". Not that programs to "combat" lack of education and poverty meant anything. No matter what they "achieved", the New World Order was still oing to fabricate "terrorist" incidents, since it has been doing that from the start! And not even that the funds put toward "improving the lot of the people" was ever intended to do any good! Think about it! Where does any money put toward "charitable goals" go? None of it goes directly into the pockets of the people it could serve. It always goes to politically connected "foundations" or "organizations" for their outlandishly overpriced programs of dispensing worthless garbage that leaves the populace generally no better off than before!
Look at corporate behavior in the US and around the world. Most countries blame America for psychotic corporations who come in promising to bring jobs and have a lot of positive spin in their propanda arsenal. Once in, their misbehaviors offend all. Many of the corporations are in third world countries because they want to continue to pollute without annoying regulations like not spewing poisons on everyone. These regulations cost many corporations more than American labor ever did. They want to break the back of control over their psycho behavior, a small part of which is labor. Doing a good job of running amok in the world, then convincing (paying) American politicians to send American youth overseas in endless "suppress the slaves" miniwars. And working to suppress the slaves in the US as well.
Make Pakistan rich. Mr Zakaria, There you / we go again.
Make Pakistan rich means more zeros at the end of Swiss bank account of Pakistani generals and politicians.End of story.
Terrorism not merely stem from poverty but there are also other reasons. In the pre 9/11 era there was millions of poor people in Pakistan but not any sort of terrorism in this country. The presence of US led NATO forces in this region is the main cause of terrorism. Continued drone strikes killing innocent tribal people, aimless and fruitless military operations there and above all double standard of US dealing with Pakistan is promoting terrorism in this region. US should stop its brutal campaign in this region, withdraw its forces and left the matter to Afghans and Pakistanis people to settle it through peace negotiations with militant groups as analysts in US and Europe are also stressing for peace talks.
Here's a radical idea – Why don't poverty stricken nations clean their own act up and work towards a better future instead of acting like primitives (which will just make their problems worse)?
Working class people are pragmatists. They don't believe an idea until they see the results. But the middle and upper classes given enough leisure time, decadence and neurosis, dream up ideologies. The working class only wants to do better, but what they get is an economy wrecked by war and revolution. In Pakistan, add religious ideologies to the mix.
Hi. I m po' boy and I am not extreme. I just don't like white folks that much. In fact we had one last week and we had so much fun. He screamed and he screamed and we laughed so much. But no I am not extreme.
why even ask the question we know poverty breeds extremism. When you are hungry you will do anything to feed your family history has proven this a million times over.
If poverty bred extremism than Haiti would be full of suicide bombers...
It may not have an impact in foriegn countries, but remove welfare in this countr and see what happens! They will riot in the streets , if you remove the government dole thrown away to undeserving non-contributors!
The terrorists may be more middle class but the "shock troops" or cannon fodder are the poor and destitute. The people who strap on the bombs are the people who are desperate and in extreme poverty. They are just the tools to be used by people like Bin Laden.
In this country, the U.S., most bank robberies are not by sophisticated planning but by people that are desperate.
Should spend that money on education. Terrorists are either ignorant or taught untruths. Educate the women first.
huh? yeah right! try telling that to the maoists in india:P
Doling out money does not stop terrorism or stop people from joining terrorist and extremist groups.
Giving money to poor countries does not elevate their poor, nor does it improve their lot by much and it definitely does not move them away from or to terror groups.
Reducing poverty throughout the world is an admirable goal but it not the solution here.
Many terrorist operating on the world scene are from relative well off families and communities and are educated. bin Laden, the 911 hijackers are examples.
Nothing will work unless we can get to the younger kids, 2 to 6-7 years old. We must start with them, training them not to hate.
We must change what they are taught.
Extremist everywhere have known this for centuries and act accordingly. They start training young kids in their way from the earliest years. A ten year old trained at five to hate will be a ten year old who hates and will become an adult who hates.
It does not matter how much money we give his family, his community, or his country.
How to get at the kids is another matter but this where we must go if there is to be any hope of success and a lasting peace.
Even then there will always hate but the 'culture of hate' will diminish once hate is no longer taught to the kids.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/14/americans-against-high-treason-and-obama/
Petition to charge obama with treason war crimes violation of human rights murder of gaddaffi family
Charge Obama,Biden,Clinton,Rice,Wallace,Hague,Berlusconi,Frattini,Qatar,Cameron,CLegg,Sarchozy,Boucher,Rice,Santorum,McCain,Feinstein,Lieberman,Boehner,Boxer,all politicians voting for war and supporting rebel side which is illegal and violates no fly zone, all fighter pilots and all officials involved and politicians involved in Libya on murder/assassination of Gaddaffi family, extra-judicial illegal killing of of Bin Ladin, violation of Pakistan and Libya borders without Govt permission, genocide, rape,assault,battery, war crimes, human rights violations, kidnapping,dissapearance, detainment and torture and murder of civilians and medical,media, and others, lies,Clinton & US & Obama & Nato lied to US media and US public about their lies of blame to Gaddaffi govt when US and NATO dropped depleted uranium and causes their war crimes. Demand execution of all and all beheaded in Libya under Shariah law,lifetime asset freeze, lifetime travel ban & lose US citizenship.Require the above named and other responsible warmongers pay out of their bank accounts and sell off of all their assets for all lawsuits and medical claims by war victims and families of deceased Nato bombings in Libya, Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan and not from the bank accounts of non involved peace supporters who vehemently fought against US and NATO invovlement in any war.Make the war murders pay the victims in order to put an end to endless war.
Complain every day to stop all wars, especially in Libya. Stop The Wars! Please go to http://www.cia.gov and click on contact us and email them to stop Nato bombing and stop trying to kill Gaddaffi and stop CIA and military ground troops. http://www.whitehouse.gov click on contact us and then email them to stop Nato bombing in Libya and stop trying to kill Gaddaffi. Also do the same by calling British Embassy (202)588)6500 and going to http://www.Nato.int click on contact us and tell them to stop bombing Nato and stop trying to kill Gaddaffi and not to use your real name.Call State Dept (202)647-6575 or (202)647-4000 Tell them you wish to leave a message to stop Nato bombing and stop trying to kill Gaddaffi and dont leave your name.Sign the petition impeachobama and see web site obama charged in court for treason.It is your right to complain every day against the abuse of power and the abuse of injustice against the victims who are powerless to to speakup and to stop the abuse of power on their own which is why the whole world must unite to stop the abuse of power of Nato against Libya and other countries and their destruction of those countries and the destroyers never being held accountable or being punished by the Hague. Stop The NATO Wars! Save civilian lives! Save the world economy!Please go to http://www.google.com, and look up websites of all Nato countries there are 28 and contact ehir home page to compalin every day to stop their wars and also complain to the embassies, the military, your politicians, and your local, regional, country, state, and national, and intl media organizations to stop Nato bombing and stop killing Gaddaffi and stop all foriegn wars. Go to http://www.cia.gov and click on contact us and email them to stop Nato bombing and stop trying to kill Gaddaffi and stop CIA and military ground troops. http://www.whitehouse.gov click on contact us and then email them to stop Nato bombing in Libya and stop trying to kill Gaddaffi. Also do the same by calling British Embassy (202)588)6500 and going to http://www.Nato.int click on contact us and tell them to stop bombing Nato and stop trying to kill Gaddaffi and not to use your real name.Call State Dept (202)647-6575 or (202)647-4000 Tell them you wish to leave a message to stop Nato bombing and stop trying to kill Gaddaffi and dont leave your name.Sign the petition impeachobama and see web site obama charged in court for treason.Call,email,fax,protest out side main govt intl, defence, military, nato, and embassy buildings world wideprotest peacefully every day until they stop their wars and get out of Libya, stop killing everyone and stop trying to kill Gaddaffi and stop destroying foreign countries.Nato victims deserve financial compensation, a rebuild country and if the persons responsable were first punished and had to pay financially out of their own pocket and if everyone would stop glorifying war and killing and destruction and suffering and start respecting non violence and non war and stop electing war candidates and military politicians the problem may decrease and go away. War is not free and the people who cause it pay the least. They should pay the most. Each airstrike costs thousands of peoples's lives.Complain as much as you want until the wars and Nato is stopped. Remember that Nato is not only destroying govt and military infrastructure but civilian infrastructure, civilian lives, the whole country where it goes and causes millions of refuges trillions of dollars lost and world wide economic collapse so stopping Nato is necessary to saving the world. Lawsuit Nato out of existence.
I demand Supreme Court hear all court cases and claims filed before it and do not deny any claims by victims and families of living and deceases.Require that Obama,Rice,Biden,Clinton,all persons named in lawsuits and claims international and us citizens be charged, prosecuted and punished to the maximum extent of the law.
Fogh has been charged with war crimes, genocide, illegal war, assassination in Libya of Gaddaffi family and be prosecuted at the Hague and in Libya either jailed and executed by the Hague and also prosecuted by Libya and executed by beheading under shariah law as soon as possible. Also all criminal,federal, intl laws to punish inclduing hosue arrest, freeze of assets, travel ban, firing from job and ban from life time high level war military job.Must sell all assets to pay medical, finacial and all punitive compensatory claims to victims including victims legal and medical fees and destruction of life related fees.
There is so much talk about extremism and poverty. Until recently Mr. Zakaria himself used to make that connection, along with the scores of other connections (real & perceived) that Muslims like him everywhere make, incl. Palestine, Chechnya, Kashmir, 9-11 Victory Mosque, Burqa ban in France, burning of the Koran by an obscure FL pastor, or the Swiss ban on minarets, etc. etc. etc. GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO AD 622 to hate all non-Muslims, America, Israel and everything the non-islamic world stands for!!!!!
So if Poverty infact was driving Muslims to violent extremism, and NOT FANATIC RELIGIOUS IDEOLOGY, can anyone explain to me why we hardly see any of that in Haiti, much of Sub-Saharan Christian parts of Africa, Central America & Mexico, India, Nepal etc.?
Are the supporters of that notion aware that apart from the foot soldiers in the ravines of Af-Pak, many of whom are in fact fighting foreign occupation, most of the other terrorists (9-11 Hijackers, London Transit Bombers, Mumbai attackers -except for one, Nigerian shoe bomber, Times Square bomber, VA 5 of Pakistani origin etc. ) were all from well to do families who had a solid financial future ahead of them?
Coming back to my former countryman Mr. ZAKARIA, why is he a TURN COAT NOW? It's ONLY A PLOY in his QUEST FOR HIGHER PUBLIC OFFICE (e.g. Secretary of State) to carry forward his HIDDEN ISLAMIC AGENDA! No wonder he is trying to project himself as an AUTHORITY ON EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN by feeding off already published info/studies etc., and CHERRY PICKING THE FACTS to suit his convenience. In the process he also makes some broad sweeping statements that typically appeal to BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE to portray his stories as all fair & balanced, something that naïve readers easily succumb to. In fact, towards the end of Mr. Zakaria’s style smacks of a much greater ambition of reaching stellar eights in the public service arena to carry on with this overall Islamic agenda. In fact his efforts reached a crescendo when a web site propped up (from nowehere!) during the Bush-Kerry presidential campaign, appealing to the future US president to appoint Mr. Zakaria as the “Secretary of State”. Mr. Zakaria himself gave credence to that appeal when he said in an article published in 2003 in the New York magazine “MY FRIENDS ALL SAY I'M GOING TO BE SECRETARY OF STATE. BUT I DON'T SEE HOW THAT WOULD BE MUCH DIFFERENT FROM THE JOB I HAVE NOW."
So, we need to take whatever comes form Mr. Zakaria’s pen/mouth with MOUNDS OF SALT!
Also check out my detailed response detailing some of the instances where Mr. Zakaria has reversed his assertions (date/time stamp: “June 8, 2011 at 3:10 pm” above), and let me know if I am wrong!
Amit-Atlanta-USA
You think his islamic agenda is hidden?
Oldboldgold:
You are right!
Actually Mr. Zakaria's Islamic agenda, Israel, US, & Europe bashing is not hidden. But the fact that he has developed a unique knack of interspersing his speech/writings with some sweeping comments that typically appeal to both sides of the aisle makes many even educated people think that he's all fair & balanced.
So again, for people who are careful to read between the lines, decipher his spin focusing on not merely what he says, but cleverly conceals other facts Mr. ZAKARIA's ISLAMIC AGENDA IS MUCH LESS OF A SECRET, RATHER IT's AS APPARENT AS DAYLIGHT!!!
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Fareed is all about sending money to Pakistan. Go to your local store and see Pakistani goods on the shelf instead of American made goods. Not only do we need to stop sending Pakistan billions to support "stability" for the 67 megacorporations taking jobs from Americans to give to Pakistanis, we need to quit importing Pakistanis to the US. Ditto all terrorist countries. If Washington is so afraid of these terrorists, why are they allowing these people unrestricted access to the US? Terrorism is a game of who rules the masses, some new boy in town wants to rule and has a propaganda war against the old guard. None of whom care an ounce about regular citizens. We live in America, and we do have the ability (still) to take our government back and put it on track. I'm tired of my tax dollars going to support corporate welfare and corporate wars against the poor of other countries. I'm tired of hearing about how Americans are all on welfare, the worthless bums, which ignores the fact that corporate executives have been playing Monopoly games with the world economy and are still waltzing home with all our assets while killing jobs in this country. Of course corporations would rather we support war in Pakistan, it is one of their "new" projects.
The problem is that some people believe two things; that money (or lack of it) is the root of all evil (or even much of it), the other wrong belief is that any problem can be fixed by throwing money at it.
As a soldier who recently returned from Afghanistan I can tell you that these people don't trust us, like us or respect us. They see us as occupiers and an a goose that lays golden eggs. I'm pretty confident we've actually spent a hundred billion dollars (easily) over the last decade there but we have some "creative accounting" going on. Regardless, these people, as shown by their illustrious leader, know how to work a system. The corruption in this country is amazing. The fact that we actually promote it by letting their people get away with it is obscene.
Success at any cost. Even on the paychecks of your children and grandchildren.
The poor folks are deceived into joining a group with promises quite different from the actual aims.
The leaders in the upper echelon seldom become suicide bombers. Like a chess game, the pawns are readily sacrificed.
I've always thought that stupidity was the main cause of exremism, no matter which religion you're talking about.
extremism
Thank God some one got the truth.... tell to whole world.. Thank to Pennsylvania....
Inside financial sales, a income assertion or declaration of money moves is really a fiscal assertion in which exhibits a new company's inward along with outgoing income within a interval. All ...Polskie biuro rachunkowe Londyn
As usual, Western scholars understand nothing about extremism. Poverty and exposure to violence are at the very root of the fomentation of extremist ideologies. The fact that IRA extremists (or other groups) come from affluent backgrounds does not directly speak to the issue of poverty as a catalyst in extremist movements. Consider the American Civil War. The extremist KKK arose just after the end of the war when the economy of the southern states was in shambles. In the Middle East, extreme poverty is a common problem as is exposure to violence. Both of these variables operate to provide a scapegoat for extremists as a recruitment tool. One should not confuse the socioeconomic level of the extremists themselves with the general perception of poverty in a given area. Where the perception exists that a person's economic opportunities and social mobility are limited, there will be extremist elements eager to exploit such perceptions to their advantage. Or, consider the immigration debate in the U.S. The anti-immigrant rhetoric rose sharply after the economic downturn in '08 as people used immigration as the scapegoat for economic problems that were, in reality, caused by many factors that had nothing at all to do with immigration. This "study" is completely off base. Even a cursory reading of history will show that co-option is one of the best methods for dealing with extremism (ie, by eliminating the perceived – perceived being the key word here – problems which give rise to extremist sentiments).