As Foreign Policy highlights:
Norway's unrepetant mass killer, Anders Behring Breivik, is now under arrest. And he should count himself lucky for - if entirely undeserving of - a penal system in that country that is among the cushiest in the world. There's no capital punishment and the longest jail term allowed is 21 years (a caveat: if a prisoner is deemed to still be a threat, his sentence can be extended in five-year blocks indefinitely, though it's highly unlikely, according to Norwegian officials). In Norway, rehabilitation is the guiding principle, not punishment - a somewhat difficult notion to swallow given the gravity and callousness of his crimes....
Norway's newest jail may hold rapists and murderers, but Halden Prison - the country's second largest and most secure facility - looks more like a posh sleepaway camp. In fact, architects say they purposely tried to avoid an "institutional feel." When it opened in 2010, some news accounts called it the "most humane" prison in the world....
Check out this TIME Magazine report on the prison from 2010:
Ten years and 1.5 billion Norwegian kroner ($252 million) in the making, Halden is spread over 75 acres (30 hectares) of gently sloping forest in southeastern Norway. The facility boasts amenities like a sound studio, jogging trails and a freestanding two-bedroom house where inmates can host their families during overnight visits.
Unlike many American prisons, the air isn't tinged with the smell of sweat and urine. Instead, the scent of orange sorbet emanates from the "kitchen laboratory" where inmates take cooking courses. "In the Norwegian prison system, there's a focus on human rights and respect," says Are Hoidal, the prison's governor. "We don't see any of this as unusual."Halden, Norway's second largest prison, with a capacity of 252 inmates, opened on April 8, 2010. It embodies the guiding principles of the country's penal system: that repressive prisons do not work and that treating prisoners humanely boosts their chances of reintegrating into society.
"When they arrive, many of them are in bad shape," Hoidal says, noting that Halden houses drug dealers, murderers and rapists, among others. "We want to build them up, give them confidence through education and work and have them leave as better people."
Countries track recidivism rates differently, but even an imperfect comparison suggests the Norwegian model works. Within two years of their release, 20% of Norway's prisoners end up back in jail. In the U.K. and the U.S., the figure hovers between 50% and 60%. Of course, a low level of criminality gives Norway a massive advantage. Its prison roll lists a mere 3,300, or 69 per 100,000 people, compared with 2.3 million in the U.S., or 753 per 100,000 — the highest rate in the world.
Design plays a key role in Halden's rehabilitation efforts. "The most important thing is that the prison looks as much like the outside world as possible," says Hans Henrik Hoilund, one of the prison's architects. To avoid an institutional feel, exteriors are not concrete but made of bricks, galvanized steel and larch; the buildings seem to have grown organically from the woodlands. And while there is one obvious symbol of incarceration — a 20-ft. (6 m) concrete security wall along the prison's perimeter — trees obscure it, and its top has been rounded off, Hoilund says, "so it isn't too hostile."(See the 25 crimes of the century.)
The cells rival well-appointed college dorm rooms, with their flat-screen TVs and minifridges. Designers chose long vertical windows for the rooms because they let in more sunlight. There are no bars. Every 10 to 12 cells share a living room and kitchen. With their stainless-steel countertops, wraparound sofas and birch-colored coffee tables, they resemble Ikea showrooms.
Halden's greatest asset, though, may be the strong relationship between staff and inmates. Prison guards don't carry guns — that creates unnecessary intimidation and social distance — and they routinely eat meals and play sports with the inmates. "Many of the prisoners come from bad homes, so we wanted to create a sense of family," says architect Per Hojgaard Nielsen. Half the guards are women — Hoidal believes this decreases aggression — and prisoners receive questionnaires asking how their experience in prison can be improved.
There's plenty of enthusiasm for transforming lives. "None of us were forced to work here. We chose to," says Charlott-Renee Sandvik Clasen, a music teacher in the prison and a member of Halden's security-guard chorus. "Our goal is to give all the prisoners — we call them our pupils — a meaningful life inside these walls." It's warmth like that, not the expensive television sets, that will likely have the most lasting impact.
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I've run both a household and a small business. Folks, to make it work you have to ALWAYS seek ways to increase revenue and contain expenses. And you HAVE to spend money to make money.
I currently work for one of those businesses the Republicans keep claiming will increase employment. Let me tell you, you guys and gals don't have a clue. The owners of these businesses are more interested in increasing shareholder value than creating jobs. THAT's capitalism. If there is ANY way to avoid hiring a new employee or avoid paying a fair wage to current employees for what the employers demand, they do it. Few employers value loyalty anymore, or more accurately they demand it and give as little as possible in return.
Sure, let's let the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The rich can only buy so many thingamabobs. And the only way employers will hire more workers is if product demand increases. If all you do is cut employers' expenses, they cut bigger checks to shareholders, not spend it on more jobs.
And what do the shareholders do with that money? Stuff mattresses?
PandoraDogg: They go on international vacations, purchase foreign luxury cars and reinvest in more stocks. DUH!
The reality is that those checks don't buy much. Most of the company's profits are retained in their balance sheets. The company may be profitable but the shareholders only make a profit if they sell and the Market (at that point) recognizes more value in the firm than when they purchased the stock. Look at it closely and you'll see that the CEO's are getting rich, but the investors are frequently losing their shirts.
How right you are
Not sure what the economy has to do with this article about Norwegian prisons but I do agree w/ you. I understand we may not be able to model are prisons exactly like Norway, but it sounds truly amazing. The U.S. should try a few of their practices for minimum security offenders and maybe try reforming then condemning.
Our leaders seem to promote throwing away people.
Very interesting, it might even be topical in one of the various "debt negotiations" forums. I don't see what that has to do with prisons in Norway.
Let's not forget that these shareholders you so blithely revile are primarily pension funds and mutual funds all run to maximize returns. Scr#w the shareholders, and you're just scr#wing people who worked their whole lives socking away money in hopes they can retire with some security other than the socialist security promised them by the federal government. The only people who wouldn't be hurt are those who have spent their lives leaching off hard-working tax payers.
USAID is an organization created by President Reagan to be another subversion of the CIA. I know because I worked with USAID contracts in about 20 countries – Russia, all of Central Asia, Peru, Bosnia, India, etc. Trillions of US taxpayer money has gone to build houses, businesses, roads, investment, etc. in other countries while each contractor reports basic information back to the CIA. For example, the Central Asian American Enterprise Fund (CAAEF) was awarded $150 million by the US Congress and it was managed by USAID. Half – $75 million – was lost to fraud in the first three years of operation. Deloitte & Touch managed the first two multi-million dollar programs in Russia. The business program spent $3 million every month for 4-5 years and closed down leaving NOTHING. If we are going to "balance" our own budget, we need to close USAID. Please, please, please make the American people aware of how their tax payer money is lost needlessly.
USAID was founded by JFK in 1961...
On September 4, 1961, the Congress passed the Foreign Assistance Act, which reorganized the U.S. foreign assistance programs including separating military and non-military aid. The Act mandated the creation of an agency to administer economic assistance programs, and on November 3, 1961, President John F. Kennedy established the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID).
Gee for someone who worked for USAID you don't know much about it do you? Much of your diatribe is full of misinformation. You may want to consider posting on things more one your level- say like mourning Amy Winehouse's death
Lock him up in Guantanamo Bay. It would be more of a statement to prevent ALL kinds of terrorism in the future. This is utter Hypocrisy.
Hmm. Lat I checked, that's an American facility, not a Norwegian one.
True, but I'm sure that we can make a trade of some sort. He can have cork-meat sandwiches like in Harold & Kumar.
Or perhaps we can let Norway do what want with their criminals and stop sticking our noses in other country's business.
Thank you...
@Number2 I couldn't have said it better. It is their situation and I'm sure they will handle it as their laws and culture permit. We americans are so arrogant that we think we know what is best for everyone when we can't even sort out our own messes.
really Jacques? and the U.S. doesn't hear how it should be doing things differently all the time from outsiders? What color is the sky in your imaginary world?
Double Thank You.
Well said. Given that their system works so much better then ours (the US used to be the leader in rehabilitation, but it has taken a back seat to punishment.... and oddly enough recidivism has been going up).. I do not think US citizens have much place to be telling Norway how to handle its problem.
Of course the US hears it from other countries. And, right or wrong, it promptly ignores it cause 'ain't no foreigners gonna tell us how to run our country, dabnabit!'
But, that still doesn't mean that other countries shouldn't listen to us... If they don't, we'll just come in and do it our way, anyway.
so the us would lock up another countries criminal for what reason again???
As a favour to a friend and ally.
Send this nut case to Afganistan and let him go head to head with the Taliban and see what he thinks.
Hard to believe he did what he did and does not get put to death.
There is no justice!
@Alan Your post might have some credibility if you were Norweigan which from your name I take it you are not.
You're confusing revenge with justice... as most Americans do.
We could always send him to the US. He'll love rikers and its multiculturism
"we" cant send him anywhere. He isnt part of the American justice system and maybe you guys should take a note on the facts of the US prison system VS. other countries. This 1 instance is obvioulsy horrific, but as a whole it seems like many other countries have far less crime and its inmates get released and are able to be integrated back into society. Maybe if the US spent more time trying to help and rehab some of their prisoners instead treating them like animals, you would have a better outcome. You cant argue with the numbers. The US has far more people in prison for extended sentences and far more people unable to adjust to society when they get released.
Honestly, people like the OP have no concept of life outside the USA. To them USA is everything and thus the "WE" comment. It's both sad and comical how ignorant some people are.
right, as Americans we have no right to voice our opinions on anything that didn't happen in America, and then only if we're perfect first. This is the rule all other people follow with us as well. You never hear someone from outside the United States ever criticize Americans, it just doesn't happen, ever......
agreed, of course good luck convincing the dum dums on here that facts are a good enough reason
This call for instant death penalty and yet, millions will be wasted.
I bet Obama is to blame right! LOL. Stupidity amazes me. Who cares, it's a DIFFERENT COUNTRY. They can do what they want with their mass murders.
Yes, Norway can do what they want with their mass murderers, but Americans have no right to even voice an opinion while other countries are regularly attacking the U.S. if we execute a mass murderer? How is that consistent Number2?
Your intent is to have another human being killed... You are no better then he is.
and yet this instance aside, Norway has one of the lowest murder rates in the world, certainly far lower than countries with much more draconian sentencing and a focus on punishments. I would say "makes you think", but looking at the comments above apparently it doesn't.
Thinking is something that people who post here don't do very well.
Last I heard, their educational system ain't too bad, either...
If the US wishes to save it's self from crime it should emulate countries like Norway more.
The US can say anything about Norway's system being a failure as it has it's own share of mass murders like OKC.
It's urban public schools have become more like prisons and most large cites have a at least one homicide every day.
I meant it can't say anything bad about Norway heck even the Ukraine has a better criminal justice system then the joke the US has.
those cant think that have spent a life doing as they are told to think
sighingman: You are not thinking. Norway has another Hitler on their hands.
no, hitler was a politician who won up to 1/3 of the votes in an election, this man is a dangerous radicalised individual. the arguament here is whether a country with a murder rate of 0.6 people per 100 000 in 2009 should continue to focus it's prison system on reforming people, or move to a system like the US which focusses on deterrence and punishment, and has a murder rate nearly 10 times higher. There is a famous quote on which part of English (and thereby American) law is built "Be you never so high you are above the law". In Norway they also believe that you should never be below it either, and it seems to work a heck of a lot better.
Keep in mind Norway's criminal justice system generally works which is why the country has a low crime rate while the US system is a complete and utter failure and actually increases crime.
US prisons are called crime universities for a reason.
And who would this other "Hitler" be? The one in jail for killing these people, or some other person that has yet to attack anyone? Do you have some news you could share with the Oslo police, perhaps? Is it you and you're now making the jump to genocide? Why are you so quick to claim someone is another Hitler, when all you have to do is look at the responses and you might be able to pick out the next Charles Manson right here from our own stock of American brothers and sisters. The way some of you comment in these articles makes one wonder exactly what sort of malice towards others you may be capable of.
Countries with small populations treat their people decently. Everybody counts and every life is treasured. Norway is a rich country. The gas and oil revenues are invested wisely by a state-own company. It explains why Norway can afford nice prisons. I hope it doesn't attract a surge in tourism.
Norway would be a great place to visit, kill a few children, and retire in comfort.
Confused article. Here are the facts:
* The maximum sentence is 21 years for normal crimes, but 30 years for Crimes Against Humanity. The latter might very well be applied here.
* It is NOT highly unlikely he will be kept indefinitely, in 5-year blocks, for the protection of society. Most experts find it highly likely. He is an obvious threat, a manipulative, psychopathic killing machine on something he perceives as a holy mission, proved capable of planning and lying about his intentions to everyone for a decade. It's difficult to imagine the board of psychologist that would decide to trust any claims he would me as to be reformed. He'll be Norways first de fact life time prisoner.
* He will end up in a high security prison, in isolation. Other prisoners would love to get their hands on him and rip him apart, naturally. Descriptions of a low security prisons are just not relevant in any way. ("Flatscreen TVs"?!... really, should prison authorities go out of their way to acquire antique "fat-TVs" because flatscreens are too good for prisoners?)
"Most experts find it highly likely" Are those Norwegian experts? For theirs is the only "expert" opinion that matters.
Does it matter if it's likely or unlikely? The fact is, he could potentially serve less than half a year per murder (even if it's the 30 years you say is a possibility). 6 months for taking a life? BFD.
and why would other prisoners want to rip him apart?? to help out the people that put them there?? does that actually make sense in your mind?
Which is it – Norway the successful criminal reformer – or Norway, where convicts rip each other apart?
"The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons."
Fyodor Dostoevsky
excellent point- touche'
This killer devastated numerous lives..families. He deserves nothing short of what he gave out. Don't talk about crime rates and Hitlers and prisons, etc., Execute him...today...now....swiftly.
This happened in Norway(a country with no DEATH PENALTY) to Norwegians by a Norwegian. So the only thing anyone can do is talk about it, unless your Norwegian and even then you can't kill him Norway has no death penalty(emphasis added). You are like the like the people who complained about millions being wasted instead of just killing him. Does thinking hurt you that much? Are you so blood thirsty that you go and exhume histories greatest villains and poke them with sticks to satiate your sense of vengenance? Take your meds and let the Norwegians deal with this their way. After all it is their right.
JLV: You missed the point. He's from Norway. I get that. (I'm not from Norway). For me it's not vengeance; it's justice for those he killed. Wherever he ends up, I hope somehow he ends up dead so he never has the opportunity to do it again.
Sorry, Joe: Norwegian killer, Norwegian rules...
yes Joe, sorry, and we should all celebrate in 21 years when he is released and fully rehabilitated and then don't blame the Norwegian system if he turns around and kills 100 more people the week after he's released. You have no right to have an opinion Joe, this is America!
Yeah, tell me about it. Let's put him in a nice cushy prison and rehab his butt. We all know that rehabed killers will never kill again....right? I think you agree with me. Thanks for that. Some of the nonsense on hear makes me want to barf.
Best places to be a mass murderer or a terrorist: Norway and Israel.
Worst places: China and Saudi Arabia.
it's great if you're a terrorist in Saudi Arabia, as long as you're against the west
I agree with you sighingman, the numbers don't lie. The inmates are better off in this prison and actually have a better future once they have been given the chances they get in stead of having to join some gang in a US prison and slide off further.
But they must never let this man out of prison again! I'm sure they will find a way.
The Norwegian law says that this guy can't be released after 21 years in jail if his release poses a danger to society =)
A Norwegian prison is now cooperating with a university to offer inmates bachelor in business administation. But I think this will be at least better than offering them drugs and daily fights..
I'm not 100% sure of the stats, but I believe I've read that the number of psychopaths in US prisons are about 1 out of 4 imates. That pretty much means that a significant number of them simply cannot be rehabilitated – they lack empathy and impluse control and will continue behaving antisocial and victimizing others when they are released. No amount of coddling is likely to change that.
I've no idea what the figures are in Norway, but in this case, Breivik certainly looks like a stone cold psychopath (is there any other kind?) and his crimes support that assessment. I had to turn away when I first saw his pictures because the look in his eyes and expression on his face is pure evil. Even the head of one political group he belonged to said meeting him was like meeting Hitler before the holocaust. Spot on.
Jenna,
Assuming your statistic is correct, you're operating on the assumption on the assumption that American inmates were psycopaths even before going to prison. I would venture that it is the environment of the U.S. prison system, more than anything else, that makes these prisoners what they are. Many of those imprisoned in the U.S. could probably be rehabilitated in a system such as Norway's where treatment and education are the priorities. In U.S. prisons, however, inmates have to become violent and ruthless just to survive and we expect to change as soon as they get out. Overall we would be etter off with a system more similar to Norway's for most criminals with cases such as Breivik's being the exception.
People don't become psychopaths; they just are. A nice prison isn't going to change that fact.
What do they do with the prisoners who refuse to leave? You know, like the ones who protest that there is no way they can live this well on the outside, that if they are pushed out onto the street, they will throw a brick through a window in order to get back? Oh, I forgot, this prison system works only where there really is no poverty, where the state welfare system is so generous that even people with nothing to offer an employer can live well.
Always good to have the answers to your own questions...
It is interesting that retribution seems to be ingrained in the American idea of justice. That is not a criticism, merely an observation. A lot of you all want an eye for an eye, a life for many lives. I suppose it depends on the cultural world view, how we define "justice". I think justice can be sympathetic, and perhaps remedial for the victims, or it can be vengeful, and perhaps also be remedial for the victims. I wonder if the victims lose anything they notice, if vengeance is not theirs? I hope I never find out. Certainly, if this guy or someone like him killed my friends and family, I would be looking for his head on a pole, and would not be particularly interested in arguments about the greater ultimate benefit for unfortunate folks in a hard world. But at the same time, I am reasonably happy that the rule of law has advanced beyond capital retribution amongst private citizens. As much as I might feel like it in an extreme case, I am glad that vengeance is not permitted at a private level in the wider world.
very well said- this is a well thought out and appropriate (realistic) comment....I am an American and your point is spot on...
and I suppose nowhere in Norway is anyone calling for harsher punishment? They're all just anxiously waiting to greet him back in society in 21 years when he is released. Singling out Americans for wanting retribution is just another transparent excuse for taking a shot at Americans. How many American call for adulterers to be stoned to death or thieves to have the hands cut off? That's common practice in some parts of the world, but not the U.S.A. try again cynik.
exactly, the us model is based on misplaced anger
In the US we obviously couldn't go to a prison system similar to the one in Norway – we couldn't afford it. And my guess is the animals who mostly make up the US prisons would not be nearly as likely to 'reform'. The world would be a better place if they euthanized this monster and do it quickly. No more cameos on the TV, no interviews, no chance at writing his memoir – just a quick ticket to the big-sleep.
Actually Norway's system would be significantly cheaper then the US system.
A minimum security prison aka country club prison is $14,000 a year cheaper then a super max.
Locking up a junky for 5 years because of lame minimum sentencing laws costs 110,000 $180,000 depending on the level of security.
The US system is a complete and total failure.
Norway is beyond naive and I'm sorry it has cost them so many lives. Every time I read that the killer has been "detained" I think OH REALLY? It's very frustrating.
substantially less lives than many other countries 'worldliness' has cost them it would seem
Maybe we should take note of something here. The Norway society must be doing something incredibly right if they can offer luxury prisons and that is still considered a punishment. In America we have streets lined with homeless, ghettos, etc. If we offered luxury prisons they would be stuffed to the gills with people committing crimes just to be fed, clothed, and safe for a change. It's obvious their society is doing something amazingly right.
It's called treating humans like HUMANs.
its called Socialism and having a much smaller population
“Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.” (Martin Luther King).
This is what we believe in here i Norway. I don't think that a death penalty or a prison sentence without rehabilitation will gain anyone. Everyone has the right to be treated as a human, even those who are sick enough to do something like this. I reject to become a person who answers hate with hate. Then he would have won.....
Love and light did not stop this mass murderer. Highly trained police with fully automatic weapons stopped him.
Good for Norway. All countries – and people – should think like that.
P-Man, thats not really entirely true. Perhaps we couldn't afford 'luxury' prisons but switching to a 'rehabilitation' model and stopping stupid stuff like imprisonment of non-violent drug offenders would save more than enough money to offset the cost. It would offset the cost by reducing the raw number going to prison, reducing recidivism rates, and reducing damage to society that criminals turned worse criminals would cause when they got out. But then the angry neo-cons would be screaming for blood and yelling about how 'liberal prisons' would kill the country or something....
I could not agree more.
Yes this guy should be shot but only because of the severity of his crime.
But most criminals can and should be rehabilitated esp considering they are such because of their environment.
I suggest any brain dead neocon watch the movie trading places yes it's a comedy but it's lesson is true.
Put someone in a disparate situation they will be more likely to become a criminal and all the get tough on crime conservative types would snap like a dry twig if they had the face the poverty minorities often must face.
well certainly nobody could argue the us model is based on success
To this guy, people were just an instrument, ...lives? - a means to and end. All so we can be forced to hear his great wisdom. A true sociopath. No empathy or remorse, just cares about his own agenda. Probably perfectly resonable to him.
Put him down like a rabid dog.
I don't normally condone capital punishment, but... you know... i'm just sayin'.
Can I hire this good looking nice young man for my campaign? I think we have the same ideals.
sorry Barack already has him assigned to be the next US Ambassador to Norway upon his release
I see alot of people expressing their wish to put a bullet in this sociopaths forehead, and I must say that I was sympathizing with that thought at the start. Then it occured to me... What could be more effective than setting this madman to take cooking classes along with other murderers and criminals inside this so called "luxury" prison? Sure, he'd hate it for 10 years, but what if this pacifies him then? THAT whould send a much stronger message than flat out killing the man.. Norwegian society, and especially its vision when it comes to prison and fighting crime, is not based on fear. And perhaps thats why it works so well.
Besides... If this man gets 21 or 30 years behind bars, and gets back into society, I highly doubt he'd be able to anything illegal ever again. We got our intelligence agencies, and we have faith in them. Heck, he might even get a job and pay taxes! I whould not be surprised if that happened.
alot is not aword.
The decision by Norway to implement this sort of prison system is not necessairly driven by its wealth, quite possibly it is driven by its principles that revolve around its citizens – look at the problems faced in this regard by countries that seem much more interested in minding everyone else's business (UK, US, France, etc) they surely have more influnece within the international community than Norway does but what advantages are its citizens getting out of it all?
I miss the good old Viking days, when the execution of a monster like this was a celebration that could take days.
He needs to land on a Dog House full of Pitbulls, what a sick SOB
So there is no justice system in Norway?
So this mass murderer will be living in a luxury "condo"? I can understand something like this if prisoners have to work toward it, but in its present form, I think it does not provide the reality that a prisoner has done something wrong and needs to pay a penalty for it.
Not sure if this criminal will be serving his sentence at this particular prison or not, but I think the key to the Norwegian justice system is as follows:
1. Criminals in Norway are indeed punished, and they are after all deprived of their freedom and mobility.
2. While the isolation from society is present, the focus of the time in jail for the inmate is rehabilitation and responsible return to society.
3. The Norwegian justice system recognizes that most criminals are not born that way. Everything from how they grew up, their social background to the presence of mental disease could play a role, and could have created a vicious cycle that could have made committing a crime way more likely. The attention while in jail is to break that cycle, but with help from qualified staff.
So Norwegian inmates are indeed in jail for a crime and will face their punishment, but who knows, some of these inmates may for the first time realize that there is a a better way to make it outside of the walls. But if they knew nothing better in the past, how would they know if someone did not show them? This is what the Norwegian justice system is trying to do. The experience in jail is not just about the punishment, but turning that time into something productive for the inmate. Engagement is the word for the inmate just like tutoring is for a child facing difficulty in school.
Some may call the Norwegian approach naive, but I think the approach would produce far less repeat offenders whether they serve long or short sentences. The issue of cost may also be a factor as this model may be cheaper in the long run. How expensive is it not to house repeat offenders who are in and out of jail?
Norway has 20% repeat offenders and US about 60%. Norway must be doing something right.
This was a Norwegian criminal whose victims were Norwegian. It's Norway which needs to find the right answers to it. They were a good country before this happened and they are still a good country afterwards. I'm a proud American, but ours is not the only way of life.
Having the more insane justice system and the worst prison system with the highest incarceration rate in the world plus the death penalty still did not deter Timothy McVeigh from committing exactly the same type of terrorist crimes.
.
I realize that.
Not sure how closely McVeigh was analyzed before he was put to death, but in any regard he would have been a tough case to rehabilitate. Obviously here in the US it would not have been an option since he was sentenced to death, but in Europe it may have been an option despite the horror of what he did.
Harsh laws may deter crime for potential first offenders, no doubt about that, but good and effective rehabilitation may be the answer for repeat offenders. It is this group that is crowding America's prisons today, and at a huge expense. Could these resources used for incarceration for repeat offenders be used differently?
wow sounds like the us should adopt the norwegian model
Funny, the article didn't mention the cost.
Norway is c. $250 compared to about $60, however US benefits form economies of scale by having nearly 1/4 of the world population of prisoners. if the US were to move to the norwegian model and prisoner rates inly fell by a quarter (rather than the 90% less of the population in prison they have in norway) it would still work out cheaper over all.
why did you not post my comment . mcvey wasn't put to death i told you. as a gay terrorist army idiot he was transgendered to hide him and use him for more crooked operations moves he is the idiot ugly dog owner broad that was here and his terrorist partner is hiding out here as well. stop contradicting me. theresa noelle younan ymma-iii i-pic interpole galactica. some non gay terrorist ones just get a face and name change.
America isn't what it used to be. We're all better off catching a plane to Norway to commit crimes.
Joe, you are much better off if you came as you are. Espessialy if you have some education.
Even in these financial crisis times, businesses and the public sector "screams" for more qualified workers. Just as an example, we need more than 7000 engineers of different kinds at this moment. We also need many health workers of all kinds at the moment and this will became more and more critical in coming years. The government (NAV) have some campains ongoing in order to have more well educated immigrants from Europe, Asia and the U.S.
Look here for more English info: http://www.nav.no/English/Working+in+Norway
As a plus, as soon as you work in Norway, you automatically became a member of the Norwegian national insurance scheme and get huge benefits such as free health care, guaranteed wages (same wage as before you got sick) in case of sick leave, financial help in case you lose your job and so on. You also do not need health insurance anymore as health care and medications is completely free.
How is the IT market over there?
If I am not wrong, I just read that each prisoner costs the Norwegian state about 1500 NOK a day (280 USD/day). But have in mind that everything is more expensive here and that the prisons are much smaller than in the U.S.
A prison officer in Norway do AT LEAST earn about 310.000 NOK a year (57.926 USD/year) and likely closer to 400.000 NOK. Average wages for nurses are abouve 400.000 NOK a year just to compare.
1500 NOK per prisoner/day is nothing. If we have one in prison for some years and then release him – then we are likely to go in zero or in plus from his taxes in his lifetime – just imagine if he fulfill an education in prison – lets say he want to be a plumber then he will earn about 400.000 NOK a year (74.744 USD/year) and pay about 120.000 NOK (22.423 USD) in wage taxes (30%) every year. If he buy a home, invest some money in stocks or let us hope so – buy a car (very expensive in Norway, huge taxes!) then we have even more tax incomes.
If we put the same guy in jail for the rest of his life then we only have expenses and if we let him "sleep" then I would call it a loss (in all means).
I know that many young prisoners became good role models after some time in prison. They take education and became youth workers and get in tuch with other young people struggling with soft crime/drugs etc. These former prisoners may keep these young people out of prison and give them a helping hand in right direction.
And at last I want you to remember that we are all humans. We are social beings and some of the the toughest punishment you can give to humans is isolation. It does not sound as a hard punishment as it does not hurt physically, but it is very hard mentally and very, very harmful. Therefore, one must balance the isolation so that the prisoners get punished but not mentally ill.
Even here in Norway, the prisoners are changed when they arrive in prison. Prison officers I have spoken to tell of prisoners that changes after they have gotten into the prison. The skin is changing and the way they behave etc. many became deeply depressed.
So it is not like you get in heaven, but I can understand that it is for those who came from Somalia, Pakistan or perhaps from poor countries in Eastern Europe.
Norway: A place where you can commit mass murder on children, live in a posh resort for a couple decades, and go on with your life.
It seems politicians are more interested in protecting criminals from society than the way it should be. We've lost our way in this world. Save rehab for petty criminals like thieves. Murderers and rapists need to pay society and their victims back, not be cared after like they were the victims.
"Of course, a low level of criminality gives Norway a massive advantage. Its prison roll lists a mere 3,300, or 69 per 100,000 people, compared with 2.3 million in the U.S., or 753 per 100,000 — the highest rate in the world."
Excuse me, but how do you think they got to enjoy this "massive advantage?" These prisons take rehabilitation seriously, literally brainwashing criminals back to normalcy with compassion and love. The prison system is merely a small window into Norwegian life itself. Norway far fewer criminals than the United States because their society and culture doesn't create as many criminals to begin with.
When he is released from the cushy prison they put him in, he'll do the same thing again. Wont have any sympathy for the Norwegians when that happens. Their way of thinking is what allowed this carnage to take place, and go on for so long before a bunch of Keystone cops could make it to the island where the guy shot all those kids. Even he was surprised that he could go on shooting for the length of time that he did before being apprehended. How can you have an emergency helicopter system with one helicopter, and allow all the pilots to go on vacation at the same time? What world is the Norwegian government living in? Maybe Disney World!
Regarding the police helicioter I can not understand it either. Another fact is that the helicopter is not based in central Oslo, but at Rygge Airport far outside Oslo. It means 3 times the distance from Oslo to Utoya.
The police decided to let all pilots have vacation at the same time so they would have full capacity at once after the holiday instead of a long time with reduced capacity. Anyway, the helicopter would not have been as important as it looks – it could not transport the special police troop but it could have provided an excellent overview of the situation.
If and when Breivik is released he will be carefully monitored by the security service. I think he will be more willing to live a normal life when he comes out, like most other murderers have chosen to do when they were released to society again.
Flatscreen TV? Minifridge? One kitchen and livingroom area for only 10 rooms? That sounds BETTER than my college dorm room and I went to a major public university. Furthermore, I don't think the architecht of my dorm building was trying to create some grandiose design scheme either. My school built the cheapest building it could hold college students in.
I'm skeptical about this – somehow I feel this isn't the whole story.
That said, if you go with a rehabilitation model of justice, this does seem to be a good way. However, I do not believe all crimes should be answered with the rehabilitation model of justice. With a mass-murderer like this, retribution is needed. Further, someone this debauched is likely to do it again after he gets out in 20 years. In any case, I hope this event will help Norway re-think how they approach justice.
Yes there should realize the opportunity to RSS commentary, quite simply, CMS is another on the blog.