By Fareed Zakaria, CNN
This is the moment of truth for Europe.
For the last year or so, the Europeans have repeatedly produced workable compromises that kicked the can forward. They hoped these compromises would quiet the markets.
This strategy was often quite successful. Europeans kept promising, “Yes, we are going to bail out the weaker countries with the greatest debt load, but we want some structural reforms in return. And as we get more structural reforms, we’ll bail them out more. And if the crisis seems more intense, we’ll bail them out again.”
The Europeans repeatedly produced packages that were enough to satisfy the markets. Their hope was that at some point concerns would dampen down and then in the quiet of the night they could allow a country like Greece to soft default - a restructuring that doesn't spook everyone and doesn’t become a Lehman Brothers-like event. They sought a quiet reshuffling of debt.
I think this soft landing has now become impossible.
Today what people are basically asking is: “Is Europe’s debt going to be centralized or not?” In other words, is Europe going to be willing to say, “All our debt is pooled together and theoretically, as a single entity, we’ll pay it back.”
The key to this commitment is Germany. Germany is the only country that can pay.
But Germany is increasingly reluctant to do so. What we're watching is the rise of a new, ‘normal’ Germany, which in turn will lead to the unraveling of the old, highly unnatural structure of Europe.
The old structure of Europe rested on an extraordinary degree of German abnegation of its own interests. The Germans believed their national interest lay in subordinating itself in every way to Europe’s broader interest. That was what Europe was built on.
That’s why when you go to Brussels to the European Union you find a French-run affair with Germany’s money - a German-financed, French-run organization.
That has changed. The Germans, 60-years after World War II, are understandably becoming a more normal country. They are deeply, purely European but they are not going to pursue Europe’s interests at the expense of their own.
Despite what people say, Angela Merkel has been extraordinarily willing to bail out weaker states in Europe. Obviously, she's tried to get a good deal in terms of forcing some structural reforms in Greece and places like that. But the real story is that she did this despite German public opinion, which is now 75% opposed to any kind of bailout. This German opposition to bailouts will surely remain going forward.
And if that is the trend going forward, the Europeans are going to have a very, very big problem. There really is no way you can make the numbers work without a much more substantial German commitment of resources than there is now. If that doesn’t come through, it’s very difficult to see how the euro in its current form survives.
The key to Europe’s future is how Germany conceives of its interests. If it does so in a way that would be perfectly normal (it is important to emphasize there is nothing scary about Germany simply saying that it wants to do what’s right for Germany as well as Europe rather than always putting Europe above Germany) this might be the end of Europe as we've known it. It might be the end of Europe as a constructed, political entity built and supported by key nations, particularly Germany, no matter the cost.
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These are exciting times. The economic ruin of the world and other troubles all point to one thing – Jesus is coming back soon!
That is what they said in the dark ages and during the civil war, during WWI and WWII. I could go on.
Yes...that what they said in WWII and WWI etc.....and they are not wrong.......you have to be pretty ignorant to look at the state of affairs today in the global community, comparing it to the prophecies found in the book of Revelation, and not see something is happening......the year 1914 seems to be a major turning point downwards with the great war.
There's always a new generation that will believe the claim "the end is near". You have to admire the cleverness of the scam, which rakes in billions of tax-free "love offerings" yearly.
beelzebubba.....point taken....but you should also admire those who function completely on DONATIONS! and no I'm not talking about the one where they pass around a bloody plate almost forcing you to give money!
I've done some research on the Jehovah Witnesses...and their organization is complete supported by donations...and i mean donations in the true meaning of the word! Nothing is ever asked of its follwers
Frmcanada..hmm Jw's..now that is a nutbar organization who keeps getting "the end" wrong time and again but it is always 10 years away right. They proclaimed 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925 and 1975 as the end but it never came. Then they said "the generation of 1914 would see the end" but of course they have backtracked on that now and are proclaiming "a new light" again..i guess this new new new light will be better than the new new light was right? They were also wrong on being against vacinnations and organ transplants in the past as well but somehow they conveniently never mention their failures in their magazines.....sounds like propagainda doesn't it? While they meanwhile point fingers at the evils of christendom and their failures. Such hypocrites. You are married to a totalitarian based religion where god and the "governing body" are viewed as the same since the former works through the latter right? Read some history and some science and you may discover that your enmeshed in a religious organization with some "cult" related aspects..but of course you won't do that as everything in this world beyond that organization is enmeshed in a satanic conspiracy of some sort. When you pull your head out of you know where..welcome to humanity.
Actually, the Civil War and WWI and WWII are signs that Christ is coming soon. If Christ came tomorrow it would be a twinkle in time between the Civil War and now – in the eternal perspective of time. Soon does not need to mean in the next day of so it could mean in a couple of hundred years.
Steve – you are absolutely 100% wrong....I don't know where you're getting your information from. BUT one of the key teachings of the JW's is that NO ONE KNOW's when the end will come! Period! They do however say we are living the the "last days".....so never have they in their history called for a specific date.
This one of the key things I investigated when studying the group.
A sheep who eats the grass on the right side of the field is no different from a sheep who eats grass from the left side. In the end, they are both sheep.
To see someone who is posting here that only their way of thinking is correct to intimate that anyone is "ignorant" is comical to me. Hello kettle, I guess.
The bottom line with respect to whichever friviolous story you choose to believe is this. They are just stories. You may believe them if it makes you feel more relevant, but others do not. This does not make them ignorant, but your lack of objectivity towards what they may believe surely makes you.
When it boils down to any coversation relating to god, particularly Jesus, I always ask this. Can you say with absolute certainty that Jesus and his buddies didn't merely eat a bunch of psilocybn mushrooms and merely record what they think they saw? The answer is, no, you cannot. You may believe that didn't happen, but you cannot say with certainty that it didn't. To someone objective however, it seems almost credible. After all, one must only look to the Pagans to see the striking "similarities" between Christianity and Pagan beliefs, of which the Pagans predate the Christians. Perhaps, just perhaps, Jesus and his band of merry mates were simply a group of guys who didn't believe what their parents told them, ate some mushrooms, and recorded what they hallucinated, all of which were based in what they had been taught all along.
That you, or anyone, cannot fathom this possibility is the true evidence of ignorance.
Always something hilarious when someone says "You'd have to be ignorant not to see similarities between now and a work of fiction wrote 2000 years ago".
Bad stuff has happened since the dawn of time. If every time something tragic or bad is about to happen, that means Jesus is about to show up, the poor guy likely is exhausted from showing up every day, for the last 2000 years.
Well FRM..your research of the JW's must be by only reading their literature..that is not being objective. I am not 100% wrong. You can actually buy past JW literature on ebay or see pdf scans of them online..there is alot of evidence that they do not want you to see. Example, Judge Rutherford stated in 1920 that "millions now living will never die"...whoops. The 1914 prophecy is a well known failure but they of course have twisted that where they said jesus would return originally now they say he did it in invisible heaven..which of course conveniently nobody can prove..but you can take their word for it if you NEED to. I can also attest to the fact i was in the organization in the mid 80's and saw all the propaganda about the 1914 generation which i know they have backtracked on. Also pre-1975 in their literature they encouraged people to sell their homes etc and go out preaching as the end was nigh. Although the everday witness are very nice people I can attest. The ideology is pretty awful and the leadership is highly cynical based on my observations (their literature mis-represents scientists, they leave out key information that allows readers to come to false conclusions etc).
Everybody who replied to Doomman defending this "end times" BS is a total NUTCASE
And they were correct every single time. In each instance, the world-as-we-knew-it ended, and a new world rose from the ashes until it became the world-as-we-know-it.
That is, the "end times" need not be about the "end end times," but rather about an ending. Revelation was arguably about what happened to Jerusalem in the first century A.D., and most scholars contend that it was written AFTER the fact rather than before. Similar "prophecies" can be found in the gospels, seemingly pointing toward someone predicting the future, but in fact were more-likely someone looking backward and trying to explain what just happened in recent history.
One need not be religious to see that the-world-as-we-know-it is coming to an end, that business-as-usual is almost over, and that a new way of doing things is on its way.
Its interesting that the Bible said yall would say that
That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
Bookmark This Book/Chapter of the Bible 2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
Bookmark This Book/Chapter of the Bible 2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
Bookmark This Book/Chapter of the Bible 2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Bookmark This Book/Chapter of the Bible 2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
Bookmark This Book/Chapter of the Bible 2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Bookmark This Book/Chapter of the Bible 2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Bookmark This Book/Chapter of the Bible 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
I'm a former JW with a good, long memory. Steve has it pretty much right.
Steve--you didn't just create that FormerJW profile did you?:)
In any case, i can assure you...HE IS 100% inaccurate! This is a public forum...bring forth your evidence. And don’t point me to some dam website that is put up by some crony…use their own materials against them…go prove it.
FrmCdn: Nope, I'm not Steve. I'll offer you a little post-JW perspective, even though I know you'll declaim it.
You're clearly still enthralled with the JW organization, and that's fine; you take what you need when you need it. For many people, belonging to a high-control organization is a better life choice than, say, substance addiction or suicide. In the broad spectrum of Christian organizations and Christian characteristics, the JWs are long on justice but short on mercy. As long as that's working for you, great.
But keep in mind that you may grow not to need it anymore–the JWs, Christianity, maybe any organized religion at all-and you'll look back and feel awfully silly about how you shouted people down as if you knew what *they* needed better than they did.
It will be a turning, to say its the end is in itself not something we are supposed to be looking for. Christians were tod to work hard pray harder and not look for the end of days because noone but the father will know what that is. No one else.. everyone else is a false profit..... we need to realize that slashes in "free" money will be needed... weither for rich poor middle ... that we need to close the gaps in poor rich and middle in all countries once again.... it will take some very resourceful and non selfseeking political influances and figures....
Oh my, here we go with the religious psycho babble. I am still thoroughly amazed in this day and age so many people continue to erroneously regard religious teachings to be work of fact. The Bible, Koran, Hinduism, Buddhism, Book of Mormons, etc. Come on people! These are all fantasies created by people from vastly different cultures in different times throughout history that attempted (rather badly) to explain our human existence on this planet/universe.
I am proud that Plato, Aristotle, Leonardo Da Vinci, Galileo, Isaac Newton, Benjamin Franklin and Albert Einstein chose to ignore such fantasies and seek out real, verifiable, measurable truths to our existence and in turn improve the conditions of the human race. You religious nuts should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.
Jesus Christ? What did he contribute to us? The Dark Ages, The Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Catholic Church/Christianity? Please we humans (in the western hemisphere) could have done perfectly well without that fantasy tale.
To FrmCdn: I am an ex-JW. Obviously not one of the previous posters. The other comments in response to yours ARE very accurate. You either willfully neglect the insurmountable evidence already published by the JWs themselves or you truly are ignorant of the real history of the Jehovah's Witnesses. You can't have it both ways. The Watch Tower Bible and Tract has throughout their 125 year history given actual dates for the "end of the world."
Religous kooks dreaming of the end of the world. Very comforting. They wonder why we think they're creepy.
Hi Guys!
Is this the thread on CNN I was supposed to show up for?
Just a response to Beelzebubba: a) you're right and b) it's always good to hear a fellow Bill Hicks follower chime in on world issues.
All our problems are human made, because of greeds and selfishness. Religious scare tactics over the years, are just trying to recruit more believers to their ranks to compensate for the ones who abandoned them, especially these days.
To quote a billboard: 2000 years of Any Day Now. You Jesus freaks are nuts. You are basing your life on a bunch of fairy tales. I suppose you think Bugs Bunny is a real "person" too.
9/11 was the beginning of the end, Obama was the harbinger of the anti-Christ.
Spare me the drama, morons.
may 21 2011
The difference between the Civil War and WW1 and WW2 is that today we have nuclear weapons and WW3 will be a whole lot more ending in these ending times. If you consider that it was ww2 that created the atom bomb and the arms race during the cold war you will see that these are end times.
Jesus? Are you kidding me? I hope you were being sarcastic.
I was thinking the same thing. How is what is happening in Europe related to all of this? Doesn't make any sense.
I was wondering the same thing. How did this conversation get here?
You wouldn't understand unless you read the BIble. In the book of Revelation certain things have to happen before Jesus can make His return. You will see a one world goverment, one world, religion, and one world economic system. The collapse of all world governments will usher in that economic system.
@ TheTruth72
Revelations also says there is going to be a seven headed red dragon. Do you believe this is going to happen also or are you the ‘non-literal’ type? If so please show me the verse that says: Don’t take this literally but…
I thought the Messiah was already here ... and got elected president....
I love it when people use mythological texts as fact-based evidence.
@TheTruth72
"You will see a one world goverment, one world, religion, and one world economic system."
Oh good. I was getting worried. Fortunately we have hundreds of governments, economic systems and thousands of religions currently.
Nah, he's not serious. But I am. FALL TO YOUR KNEES AND WORSHIP ME AS EUROPE FALLS!
I don't understand the difference between Creationism and the Big Bang Theory? If God decided to create everything and then actually did it, and time doesn't apply to God. How is that any different then there being nothing and then all of a sudden life comes spewing forth into our "world"? If anything I would imagine science would further solidify my belief in God or a "God"....
Leave religion out of this and deal with the real problems (economic) in a real world.
If Jesus show up at some point, great! However, don't bet your life on it.
@Ben, exactly what I believe also. The signs are clear for believers. Non-believers? They'll try to use political tactics to improve life, which in the end, will fail. When we strive for improvements through our self-centered ways, the result is never realized.
What everyone needs to do is to: Accept Christ, pay for redemption, ask for guidance, and God will follow through with blessings and all this mess will disappear.
Next post will be ant-Christains comments,,,,3,2,1,,,,,
Jesus? No, you need to accept the prophet muhammed and HE will light the way for you. Read the Quran and you will see the truth... it's all written there.
DBLA....did you say muhammed? I'm sorry but here are some key characteristics of a true religion from my perspective:
1. Unity (one mosque preaches something on topic and another preaches something completely on another topic)
2. Love (hardly find it in islam)
3. Being different from the world. (you are very much invlove in world politics...your religious leaders take part in it...you are apart of they system.)
Islam fails on all three. The only two religions that i know of who displays this are the Jehovah Witnesses...and NO im not one of them!
Those are difficult, if not impossible, requirements for a religion to meet. Well maybe not: I have one temple (my home), I am very loving, and I always forget to vote; ergo, the religion of DBLA-ism is now one of the three faiths that truly qualifies as a true religion to you! I actually think that the Branch Davidians and a number of other cults might make the cut.
DBLA – ahhh...making another worldly mistake of marking the JW's as a "CULT"...i've studied them...and nothing in their teachings or gatherings are CULT like....believe me...they serve no human...have no head priest, no pope...no imams...etc....only head is jesus.
both mohammed and jesus blows. Stop believing myths from 2000 yrs ago and embrace the random immensity of space and time.
How someone can believe genesis and not believe in evolution is beyond me.
nimesh – see the problem with your evolution THERORY....is that I still can’t figure out how this great BIG BANG created the earth and all this wonderful life….you know…the earth being rightly position relative to the moon and sun. etc.
I never said that the JWs were a cult. I said that under your very narrow view of what qualifies as a religion, most cults would make the cut. As you have a definition of what a true religion is, I have a definition of what a cult is... and the bummer is that all religions qualify.
nimesh – oh yeah and some of us can't believe in this random space and time crap...because we've looked around and see that evolution and the bloody people who proposed such THEORY can't solve our dam problems.....have you ever think that maybe we're currently living in a gand experiement.......just to see how well we do managing things on our own? seems like we're doing a fine good job at F*&^&Ng things up if you ask me.
I see you're using English, but all I get from your posts is the screaming rants of crazy people.
frmCdn- don't worry about evolution and the big bang... take my advice and read the Quran. That will answer all of your questions. The only way the earth could possible be here is that somebody created it! And that somebody is Allah!!! Here is a valid logical argument:
1) If the earth is here then Allah created it
2) The earth is here
3) Therefore Allah created it! (via modus ponens)
If you can show me that this argument is invalid then I will agree that Allah is not the creator. To me it seems like a simple step then to say that if Allah exists, then the Quran must be true.
DBLA – my friend i beg to differ.....i would really challenge you to find a cult that diplays true love, unity and peach. And these three traits are not set is stone…these are just a few..so not my only criteria
Flakes like you are the reason things don't get better. It interferes with your doomsday scenario. And there are a whole lot of flakes like you!
Frm..you are at it again! JW's have no Immam? No priest? etc. What do you call the "governing body"? They are defacto worshipped. Notice that Jesus is not sitting on your couch where you can ask him questions so your "truth" is reliant on the governing body who interpret the bible for you. That is right..imperfect man has to interpret the perfect book right? You have a problem especially considering the bible has so many contradictions in it.
Earth rightly positioned? Sure but life could still survive here 10 million miles away..and considering the trillions of solar systems out there it is probably not quite as unique as you suspect. Mankind blowing it? Well based on what we have been provided i would say many are doing well considering the "garden of eden" translates to the "garden of plenty". So do americans in aggregate have the basics covered? Enough food..yep. Enough Shelter yep. Heck even many on welfare have internet and flat screen tv's. How bout lifespan and healthcare..vastly improved...but then again you look at things from the "glass half empty" perspective and that only jesus can save us from the diseases he inflicted upon us..since he created everything. Humanity did not invent plague and cancer did they? Also what is the JW's solution? Everyone else with a different opinion (not accepting governing body as "the truth" will be exterminated in god's retribution plan..heck even a modern day Gandhi would be destroyed..oh I really feel the love..do you? Sure JW's are nice and polite people when you talk to them..hey they even dress in a suit so they must be nice. But again, if we are our ideas..anyone who beleives in extermination as being the solution..is pretty damn evil if you ask me.
yes he is coming and everything we do here counts even the internet
lets all be good to each other
When you say that the JWs preach peace, do you include their predicitons that in 1914, then 1918 the rapture would happen and the "armageddon" would begin? I'm not going to break out my picture bible, but I kind of imagine armageddon not being very peaceful. My new religion (not a cult), the religion of DBLA preaches real peace! Don't worry people, there won't be any armageddon- you will live a nice happy peaceful life in some nice suburb of Des Moines. Oh, in order to get that peace you need to send me a check. 10% of your annual net pay would be nice.
Grab your guns and slap your knee...JESUS IS COMING!
FmrCdn…
Ha, Ha, Ha Unity? Big Fail. Are you kidding me… how many different Christian Sects are there? All interpret the bible as they see fit… the only unity is in believing in Christ, but his teachings are all perceived differently.
Slap you knees and grab your guns... MUHAMMED is coming!!!!
lots of jesusobomahomad freaks in these threads, you people scare me....
Jesus will descend to earth at a time and place not known to any humans. To predict the coming, and thus claim to know God's greater plan is folly.
Hey steve – you seem to know allot about the JW’s but yet you are totally wrong and know absolutely nothing about them……you’re right you have the absolutely BASICS! And the JW’s are not only focus on you Americans….as much as you like to think the world is made up of 52 States….But some people have a greater vision for mankind that your basics. Yes your life span is greatly improve so it health care…that that to the thousands every year that is diagnose with cancer and is going through chemo. The glass is half empty fool….every facet of our society is plague with lawlessness and filth! From sports to the vatican. FYI the JW’s from what I recalled don’t proposed any solutions…..they point to the bible as the solution….i.e. only under the coming God’s ruler ship will things improve for mankind.
Steve – the basic point is....you either believe them or don't.....many don't and many do not. but form what i've gathered....they are different from the world religions....the are well schooled in the Bible, good family values, good family life, the kind of people you want to live next to…..their kids are brought up well law abiding citizens….they don’t vote but arguably they have silently done more for freedom of speech in the U.S. than many groups because of their numerous victories at the supreme court level…..just to name a few things I have noticed.
And is up to you to prove them wrong….but so far very few have a good argument and evidence that back up their teachings.
Scott – oh yes regarding the Governing Body...their responsibility is to coordinate the work…i.e. the printing of the magazines etc…absolutely NO ONE and I mean no one is seen as the head figure…or is worship! Everyone sits on the same level! I guarantee it! I’ve visited many of their facilities….its amazing that these guys gets it done by contributions and team work……and no bloody donation plates being passed around their members.
Have you ever find a price printed on a JW magazine? Have a JW ever asked you for money? Pretty amazing what these have done are continue to do.
Sorry Scott...I meant Steve in the post above.
Anyway Steve....have a good one my friend it was nice chatting with you....please forgive the fool comment:) Got to run now....have one.
Cheers.
DBLA, your 'logical' argument about Allah is not logic at all. I'm not knocking your religion, only your logic. Try actually STUDYING logic itself, and you'll realize that your argument is not a valid logical argument, but a textbook example of the logical fallacy of circular reasoning, also called a tautology. Again, this isn't criticizing your religion, only the obvious lack of logic in what you're referring to as a 'logical argument'. Look up the word 'tautology' and you'll see what I mean.
DBLA the WHAT?? how can you claim your religion promotes peace and acceptance when your quron demands that you convert ALL to islam, except christians and jews, who are "infidels" to be killed like a dog in the street.
frmcdn, really?? you can't grasp the concept of evolution and the big bang theory, even though all evidence supports the theory. you can't figure out how the earth happened to get caught in an orbit around a star? and you can't figure out how the moon found it's orbit around the sun either? did you even attend science class? you can't understand how this happens, but you can understand how the God created the billions of stars and planets and heavens and earth in a single day.. really??? that's your argument?? just wow..
DBLA, to point out the logical error further, the first statement says: "If the earth is here then Allah created it." All of your other statements rely on the validity of that one. The burden of proof here is on the person who makes the statement like that. Unless you can prove the validity of that first statement, the whole thing falls apart. You asked others to prove that you're logic is wrong, but the real burden is on you to prove that the first statement is true. Logic–even solid logic– only works if all of the statements themselves that are used in the logical arguments are true. So prove it's true...
MLW.....then stop using the word THEORY! I had a grade 8 science teacher...who always said..."PROVE IT!"
YES MLW....I cannot understand how all the wonderful things in this world...came to be by your big bang theory...without some greater power. Oh yeah...before this BIG BANG of yours...was there a "pre bang"? and then another pre-bang? you know what I mean? how many of these bangs were there?
mlw, it's not so hard to understand. The argument that God did all of that in one day simply requires belief that there's someone with unlimited power who can do anything he wants. Understanding the big bang theory, evolution, etc. requires the applied diligence to really study it and understand it–too much work for most of the ultra-religious who bash it; it's easy to pull apart "science" and "scientific theory" when you have little to no understanding or knowledge of either.
Sorry–meant to say that it's easy to CRITICIZE "science" or particular theories when you have little to no understanding of either. That doesn't mean the criticism itself isn't utterly laughable/ludicrous to anyone who is actually somewhat knowledgeable/educated on the topic.
AmazedinFL – no science book has lasted as long as the bible.....if it was total rubish...the get rig of it and stop calling the BIG BANG therory a THEORY. I have no idea if its being proven why its still called a THEORY.
When comparing the Prophesies in Revelation with what is going on in the world today doesn’t make you pause and have a second look…then no “religious” fanatic can convince you other wise.
AmazedinFL since you're so knowledgeable please educate me and teach me what existed before the big bang....was there a pre bang or something like this?
@FrmCdn
Your first mistake is believing in bronze age fairly tales. Your second is believing the theory’s of evolution and The Big bang are the same theory. To your second point.. its basic math. There are billions of stars and from what we are starting to see trillions of planets. How many do you think it would take for a planet to end up in the green zone? People win the lottery every day.
“MLW.....then stop using the word THEORY! I had a grade 8 science teacher...who always said..."PROVE IT!"
…I agree, so prove your god exists.
“no science book has lasted as long as the bible”
….Which version of the bible are you referring to?
“please educate me and teach me what existed before the big bang....was there a pre bang or something like this?”
….The Big bang theory as you keep reminding us (as if that proves something) is indeed a theory. Scientist are not saying yes this for a fact happened. Unlike your side of the fence. More to your question though… yes. The theory as continued to evolve and some believe it is possible there have been many many big bangs. With the universe in a constant cycle of expansion and collapse.
FrmCdn - you sound mentally challenged. I suggest you learn how to write intelligible English sentences before trying to convince people that your preferred Zombie Cult is the bee's knees.
No, you are ALL wrong. You need to accept the teachings of the Prophet Zoroaster as outlined in the Avesta.
@FrmCdn, "Theory" is a scientific (and mathematical) word that means something has been proven. When you say that word, you really mean "hypothesis." And technically you mean "idea" since a hypothesis has certain characteristics (like predictive value and falsifiability) that your ideas don't possess. Dopes like you enjoy using scientific words, even though you have little grasp of underlying concepts.
Lord Ganesh can kick Jesus' behind anytime.
Thank goodness someone finally pointed out that a "THEORY" is actually a scientific concept that explains a broad range of observable phenomenon and has yet to be disproved. I don't think anything in the Bible approaches theory.
Do I have to pay for redemption now, or can I put it off for a few years? I really want to pay off my credit cards and car loans first.
I agree with you though. All governments are doomed for failure if they don't use religion to govern first, and put their personal needs last. It worked during the Crusades, the Salem Witch Trials, and the Spanish Inquisition, so why not now?
Jesus is not coming back ... "hesus from Mexico is"
Lol best post of the day...by far! lol
ditto
hahaha...nice!
I don't see any humor in that? What's so funny? All I see is a young boy that probably got a hold of his mom's laptop and posted to CNN article.
The humore Truth72 is your ignorance! Religion, all religions are cults filled with hate. If you believe in God then why do you need religion, so you can be around others (cult) that believe the same way you do; that means you're really not a true believer, you have to be reassured by your cult friends that it's not all for not! God has a sense of humor, noses on humans are living proof of His humor!
The same Jeeeeeeeeeeezus who was Jimmy Carter and Dubbya's "co-pilot"? I'd say he's 'blessed' us enough. I only hope Obama learns how to lead effectively so we don't end up with another born-agi'in evangelical misfit commander in chief. I'll concede that it will take a miracle.
Once again, only the U.S. can get the world out of this problem. European Union is trying hard to copy America, without success. One set of rules for everybody is essential. E.U. won't work under several rulers.
What in the world are you talking about? Stop waving your flag and look at this. This is 27 countries sharing multiple aspects of how their country is run. how is this copying the US? Is it because they used the word bailout? Is that what confused you?
What in the world are you talking about? Have you seen American headlines? Pick up your local newspaper and read. Niether us nor the Europeans are doing it right.
WHAAAAHHHHH!!??!?!?!? Since when has America been doing anything right!? America is screwed and so is Europe. Germany should either kick countries like Greece and Portugal out of the EU or remove itself and reestablish the Deutsche Mark. I don't think they should bailout the other countries again because they will ruin themselves if they keep on doing that. People need to take responsibility for their own countries. And I'm not German.
Of course you are not German, not even European, otherwise you would know that is as dumb as saying that California could kick Montana and South Dakota off the USA. Go back to school!
Don't hold your breath.
Hi-
Is anyone looking for me? I already exist in your mind. Stop waiting for me, and take responsibility for your actions. World is a complex place to figure out. I am already here. No one else is coming.
*Twitches, then falls on the floor laughing. Is promptly fired for doing so at work.*
Perfect!
Win.
close all further comments
Jesus, you are truly a saint! LOL!
That explains the voices...
I'm not sure what is so exciting about the economic ruin of the world. The economy and the stork market is my ability survive now and my ability to retire comfortably. I don't see any excitement when it goes unstable.
I find it quite exciting because I never expected the artificial "retirement" situation to continue to be possible long enough for me to ever retire. Stability has always been a temporary condition between intervals of chaos. As Germany stops squandering it's wealth on fiscally stupid people, not ignorant which is understandable but out right stupid, then they will be in a much better position to unify Europe. As Ireland, Spain, Greece and any other countries fail the Germans can step in and gut their economies. This will drive them into a Soviet style "client state" status and allow a German hegemony. The more cautious countries will maintain an equal partnership with Germany and a maintainable balance will form.
Raw capitalism is evil but deliberate blind socialism is unsustainable. A balance has to be struck but it won't happen when the stupid have just as much say as the wise.
My Sir, it would be a ruin which ushers in yet more super-hyper rich people to the detriment of the yet poorer poor people.
I wish to see some hope of Jesus justice and reform coming in.
I exist only in your mind...
Yes, believing in Me may be soothing and comforting, but it is still wishful thinking, my child...
And when does, let's do to him what we did last time!
DUDE, YOU ARE A COMPLETE IDIOT! STFU!
Posts like this should be removed from the discussion, CNN moderators. This is nothing more than troll like BS.
We'll just deport him back to Mexico again.
Regardless of what any you "true believers" might believe, I ask you this: Even IF Jay-zus is coming within your lifetime, do you suppose he wants all his "true believers" to just let everything go to hell in the meantime, or do you suppose he wants his "true believers" to continue devoting their best efforts to making as much of the world right even without his help?
It's something to consider.
Yeah, and Obama is going to come with him to give us peace, hope, and happy change – the un-American way. How about a little self-reliance and accountability????
Why inject President Obama into this silly discussion? He loves this country, I also happen to believe that the republicans love this country. The problem is neither group can agree on the best way to lead the US through the difficult times we are facing. I think we would get a lot further if we decided to work together rather than bashing each other all of the time. We should be praying for his success rather than his failure. I didn’t like Bush, but I didn’t want him to fail either.
There are many different beliefs in the world, I for one believe in Christ and I will preach his teachings to all who will listen and accept them. Some of you must realize by now that not everyone will agree with you (arguing does not prove your point or make you look smarter), so let it go and let them believe in who or what they believe in whether it be Muhammad, the big bang or string theory.
As far as the topic, Germany decided to commit to the euro so they should be committed to it. Everyone knew there were going to be risks and benefits to joining the euro thereby linking their economics together. We’re just seeing some of those risk borne out.
how is a picture of a man stepping on a banana relevant to this story
Europe being overconfident that wherever they step will be stable, and Germany's ability to make them slip and fall. The picture is a perfect allegory.
Great sense of humor!
Jesus Jones will be releasing a new album soon? Awesome!
I've come back to let you know that you're a fool
The God you believe in is not possible. A perfect being can not create an imperfect human. That would make the perfect being imperfect. Therefore your god is imperfect and fallable. On another note, a message coming from a perfect being can not be perfectly relayed through an imperfect human mind. Eat that!!
There's no easy way to say this Bob, so I'm just going to put it right out there. Your assertion that a perfect being CANNOT create an imperfect human is just flat-out wrong. Not only does it place an illogical limitation on perfection, but it also presupposes that humans are not perfectly designed for their intended purpose. Either way you come at it, you're wrong.
Thanks for playing though. I find your sense of smug superiority oddly endearing.
This is what religious nut jobs say whenever there is turmoil. Your wishful thinking is delusion – go take your meds.
fairy tales are funny......
The only thing religious about this is the cultural aspect. Once again frugal Protestants are bailing out corrupt irresponsible Catholics.
But is Angela Merkel not Chancellor based upon the Christian Democrats? Are they not the decendants of the Catholic Party of Germany? Is their base not Bavaria? Have the Christian Democrats not been the governing party of Germany for the majority of the time since 1945? Was it not Konrad Adenaur, a devout Catholic, who put Germany back on its feet?
It may not be so simple. The religious may be bailing out the secularists.
Most Germans don't take church or religion very serious. Not even the ones in the "Christian Democratic Union", the governing party.
He already did.
A sheriff in Texas caught him and deported him to Palestine.
Last I heard he was being fitted with a suicide vest.
Ben is correct. Jesus is returning.
Except people won't recognize him as Jesus, even though his name will pervade everything that surrounds him. Jesus' return (this time) is in the form of the Tea Party.
The end of the world (the world-as-we-know-it, anyway) will be well underway when Rick Perry is sworn in as President of the United States in January of 2013. Jesus will have returned, and the economic destruction will be greatly accelerated after the Tea Party conservatives charge in with their newly-found more-over-the-top-than-ever-before boldness and excitement and passion, and they will tear down every vestige of civilized society as we know it, and try to build something out of the ash-heap of history they just burned to the ground.
Everything that will happen after that moment will bear the name of Jesus. It is the end of the world (as we know it) and the beginning of something new, and the something new will have that very name.
Be careful what you wish for, Ben. It just may happen.
Zombie Jesus ate somebody's brain...
Jesus has been coming back for 2,000 years!
If you're referring to Chiu-Chiu my Guatemalan gardner, yes i think you're right. He headed south a while back with savings but things have gotten worse in the 'campo' so I expect him now any old day. I hope like hjell he brings back the rose shears he took away last time.
I hope so....
yes the realignment is occurring with new leadership in the middle east and the decline in weak countries in e.u., the feet of iron and clay in Danial may point to 10 counties united in economic ties with oil and industry of the two regions. Greece can not give to the union but a democratic Iraq can with its oil reserves......
which brings to the point of the decline of u.s.in Revelation chp 13. how could such a country as ours not be in Bible prophecy?
Ben, I commend you on your extraordinary abilities of trolling! Congratulations.
I am Jesus. Send me your money and I'll solve all your problems. The Power of ME compels you!
LMAO
The Odinic spirit of the German ubermensch is kindled once again. To reach it's potential, Germany knows it must leave the rest of Europe's multicultural medicocrity behind. The next Reich is coming.
Yep, that's how WWII started, Germans thought that the rest of the world was dragging them down...so they had to defend themselves. WWI, same story. Their motto was "Gott mit uns" – "God with us"
I wish he'd hurry up.
Does he stop getting off on frying 10,000,000,000 souls in hell then?
Jesus who?
Preach it brother! Our world is going to h-e-*-* right before our very eyes.
The peculiar thing is, those who disagree with this are getting louder, and angrier, about how much they disagree with it; all the while, things are getting worse, and only pointed towards getting more worse.
This, in itself, is yet again, another sign that totally reenforces your point. Powerful delusion.
You, religious nuts, are so predictable, always, repeating, the same, age old, true and tried, adage. "Things are horrible now, and they are getting worse." I, implore you, please, use a new slogan, to, recruit, new, equally ignorant, followers. It, is getting, very, veRY, VERY; old.
I wonder if this is what the dinosaurs said as the asteroid came crashing to Earth. ;o) Look mom...Jesus!
Ahahahahahahhh!!! You are the best!
How do you know that Christ's second coming isn't supposed to be you? And me. If the body of Christ would resurrect once again (meaning his followers living out their lives like he lived his) it would change this world. Maybe even reverse the fall because at that point, the revolution would be irresistable to everyone who saw true love in action. Want to see his kingdom come to earth? Want him to reign? We make it happen by following in his footsteps (I'm not talking about going to church, restricting gay rights, or passing laws about abortion).
Not that I believe in Jesus' 2nd coming, why would you Christians think it is time for return of Jesus. Christians and Jews are enjoying high quality of life throughout the world at this moment regardless of this roller-coaster economy. It is not going to change in the near future. Now those innocent children suffering from civil wars, diseases and famine in Africa for a century on and off, they really need a messiah to comeback and it is sad that no one has come and no one is going to come. Throughout the 2011 year history there are many atrocities far greater than anything we have witnessed last 100 years. And Ben, you think, it is time for Jesus' coming because of a recession?!
The end is nigh – in 4 million years. The earth is supposedly going to be burned to a cinder when the sun begins to burn out and becomes a supernova. Or becomes a supernova and then burns out. Whatever. Something like that.
Wow!!! So now Jesus is going to be a German Banker... else why would he choose to comeback today...
Kidding aside, Yeshua's teachings are more universal than ever just we have been bogged down by 1st Century Roman Catholic Church and 16th Century Protestants. Ironically modern pseudo-agnostic reform Jews are far closer to Jesus' original teaching than most modern Christians.
Of course, this is my Point-of-View, anybody can beg to differ. In the mean time, I will continue to read CNN for the Political and Economical news, not for any Theological commentary whatsoever and I would advise you @ben to do the same.
jesus was here last week he is gone back....i saw him at a club in manhattan with 20 vurgins and
later in the week at a london disco with moses and allah ~ hard rocking dudes
I hope he comes soon and then leaves just as quickly, taking all of his people with him. A world without his people, now that's what I call heaven.
Sorry, Ben........but he's not coming back.
ummm, ok. Do I have time to order a pizza?
@ben: economically, the world was a lot worse off during the 1930's. No Second Coming happened then. Why would it happen now? Do you really think Jesus' return will be based on economic factors? There's nothing miraculous or demonic about economic flux. It's a sign of nothing more than the fact that global economies experience great advances and great declines. This is not a new thing. Been happening for thousands of years, and will happen for thousands more. It's not about Messiahs. It's about markets.
I doubt the coming of jesus soon because we still havent been introduced to the ANTI-CHRIST. but i will admit something Terrible is yet upon us. The world is changing faster than it ever has. weather, Money, and people; something is looming around the world. Soon a large percentage of the worlds population will be awoken.
Now thyy wish they have let the Turkey join their Union 5 years back when Turkey was so eagar to do so. But their Islam hatered and fear of Turkey did'nt let them welcome turkey . Turkey has a massive positive economy and that move pushed it more towards Islamic Turkey.
Jesus is back. I saw him last night in Topeka, Kansas.He thinks what's going on is crazy, and people need to correct their own problems. Their own problems.
Only in your fever inspired dreams.
You have got to love those Germans. Arrogant to the core and don't give damn what you think. Love it. And more power to them...Sorry they don't owe Europe a thing. America needs a little backbone like this, boy could they go far with a few more Germans in their administration.
Is Jesus coming back through a virgin again, with the help of his fathers uninvasive " holy spirit"?
You're right Ben, Either Jesus is going to come back (not reality) or aliens are going to land. But the reality is a war may start. Man's inhumanity to man is much more likely.
What most people don't know is that 1000 years is like one day for God. Therefore, yes, Jesus is returning. It is time for repentance. Let's seek the Lord while He may be found!. At a blink of an eye Jesus is returning. Then it will be too late!
To ben: Give us a break!!!!!!!!
Jesus is coming back ??? He died over 2,000 years ago... dead- no hocus-pocus- dead... you moron, no rising from the dead... ever... just dead. You are an intellectual midget if you think people rise from the dead. Old fables for the feeble minded.
Assuming, as Christians apparently do, that we humans are the crown of creation, why in the name of all that is holy would the almighty creator want to destroy his crown jewel? Do they suppose he's bored, misanthropic in his old age, or just a big kid who likes to build cool stuff and then knock it down?
Most Christians have no idea why they believe what they believe.
Your living in a fairy tale buddy. Jesus is never coming back. Hes at the North Pole chilling with Santa and the Easter Bunny.
FrmCmd and FormerJW are absolutely 100% correct. I am a former JW. I find it absolutely hilarious when I encounter JW's that are so young in "the Truth." So zealous. But unfortunately they are zealous in absolutely stupidity. They refuse to study anything except the literature provided to them by a group of individuals whom they do not know because if they read anything else than "the demons will possess their mind and make them think it sounds logical and reasonable."
I am amazed that JW's never stop and think "Who wrote this literature? What are their credentials? How do I know they are who they say they are?"
Did it ever occur to you that you are basing your life on literature written by someone whom you do not know? How can you verify they are who they say they are and that they are qualified to say the things they say? Let me guess: You have to have faith. Jehovah would never let that happen."
Yeah... I totally expect that recycled brainwashed garbage response.
Meant Steve not FrmCnd*** FrmCnd is a moron.
Former JW too? Did Cartman finally beat some sense into you Kyle?
OMG, another religious idiot ready to spread his word. I'd think you'd want to hope Jesus doesn't come soon, I hear He's getting rid of idiots first and it isn't rapture. Bible spounting people are equal to radical muslims!
FU
As the last surviving worldpower according to Daniel's prophecy of the rise and fall of the world powers is the Anglo-American double world power, Europe (and most probably the euro) will collapse earlier than the US and most probably the US Dollar.
However, as Ezechiel says in chapter 8, 'neither their gold nor their silver will save them ... they will throw their money in the streets'.
The financial collapse is inevitable, not because God is causing it, but because the system is built on greed and has only brought suffering to the majority of the world's population.
So, good riddance, world financial system,
good riddance, world economic system!
After the collapse we can expect 'a new world governed by justice' according to 2nd Peter chapter 3.
So, we have reasons to be optimistic.
I have interest in Revelation. However, after thorough study, I have to agree with Martin Luther, that it should not have been in the cannon. The modern interpretation of Revelation came from the American Great Awakening, so it is completely an american interpretation used politically to fight globalization. If you just sit and read the book on its own, you'll find the picture it actually paints has almost no similarity to the way it is presented in modern churches. It's funny how religions are so dishonest and continue to be. There is great wisdom in the Bible, but it mostly ignored because it cannot be used for personal gain or to advance one's cause.
Well you have hit on the biggest challenge we face in the US today. Any problem at all that comes up, and the evangelicals throw up their hands and say it is the end of the world. It saves the trouble of trying to find reasonable answers to complex problems if you let some 2-bit preacher tell you what "god" says.
I "pray" that you are joking. Jesus was a person like Geoge Washington, you and everyone that ever existed was. He was not "God" born from a virgin or rose out of the ground. Use some common sense. The Gospels were written 80+ years after his death. None of the 4 (there are really more but the Church threw some out bc it didnt fit wih the story they wanted to tell) authors were even alive to see or meet him. Don't be ignant dawg.
Oh ben, you are so delusional. Please go back into the darkness from which you came. Take all those other bible thumpers with you. You really should see a doctor about your delusions.
Jesus is not coming back. He's been a very naughty boy and has been sent to his room without supper.
"Soon" has been since AD 33. The message has been distorted by this mantra.
yeah, Jesus Martinez is coming.
Yah Right.
Jeebus has already been here. Took one look around and went back home.
...looking for my can of Jesus-Be-Gone.
You're definitely right! Beware of the false prophets. Two scriptures comes to mind;
Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
2 Peter 3: 3-4
3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
I will never accept the second coming if he is not a raptor jockey. I must have my messiah riding a dino.
you have my sympathy...
'Life is hard, but God is good – ALL the time! You have reason for optimism, if you're looking for Christ's return! God is behind the scenes and controls the scenes He stands behind.'
What a load of crap. What the heck does Jesus have to to with the current economic condition of Europe? Stupid Christians
Hope he has triple A credit when he comes.
A religious excuse is still just that... an excuse. The way things are going is purely due to the greed of man, none of that god and jesus crap. When people use others for so long, the others finally stand up and say "no." Great job Germany!
How soon? My worry is that when he gets back here, nobody will believe he is who he says he is. Especially not Republicans, who, while saying they are Christians, by their lack of charity, are anything but Christians.
Its scary to me that people use the world's ills as an indicator of end times. this implies that they are unwilling or convinced it is unnecessary to solve these issues- instead relying on jesus(magic jew) to solve it or, even worse, expecting it not to matter either way after an apocalypse. Either way, beliefs cannot be allowed to abrogate facts.
That's what people have been saying for 2000 years, but I'm sure THIS time it's going to happen.
Ben, the question was why Germany might let Europe fail. Because of what happened to them in World War I and II. The Germans still smart from that humiliation to this day. I'd say a little pay back is in order. Do you get my drift, Mr. Fareed Zakaria?
How many chances can Germany get?
Germany is just emerging from the stigma of WWII both financially, politically and psychologically. They are no longer afraid to speak with disdain about their sever loss of civilian lives and the virtual total destruction of their cities by American and British bombing. They are not about to sacrifice their financial gains or their cultural way of life for those European Countries whose lack of financial discipline they consider driven by a cultural weakness or lack of discipline. The cultural split here is huge!
It will be the fall of the American economy that will do the most damage. With Obama at the helm, we can rejoice in the epic fail that will occur. Just as the bud on the fig tree signifies the coming of the spring – the destruction of the world economy will usher in the one world government....
or OBL was quite successful in attaining his goal.
How can he come back, i thought he died for are sins?
O wait he resurrected, guess are sins resurrected to huh?
The bible hehe always good for a laugh.
When he comes back, do you think he'll stay at a Hilton or Holiday Inn?
ben....you should really stay on your meds.
jesus has been coming back for 2000 years! stop it!!!!!shut up.....please.
oh, Since thousands of years, human beings are afraid that this world is going to end...
when human socities adopted different religions, they linked this fear of end with some personality just to motivate their followers to keep killing each other...
today, muslims are waiting for Mehdi, christians are waiting for Jesus, jews are waiting for Messiah/Elijah and hindus are waiting for Krishna.......
Leave such foolish people waiting, and let's eliminate each and every kind of discrimination from this world. We are just human beings. If we happened to be born by chance in christian family, we became christians. if we had born in muslim family, then we could be called muslims. We speak german language simply because we were born in germany by chance. We might be speaking french, if we had born in france. So this is just a matter of good luck and bad luck.....
Why can't we just have World Debt Forgiveness Day, and everybody start over with their cash on hand, work, and not borrow anymore?
And pray tell how do you know that ? Why would he want to come back the human race is a total disaster anyway
I'm sure Jesus would love to come back, but since he's been dead for at least 2000 years, I don't think he will be. Mostly because there is no such thing as magic. Also fake: Easter Bunny, Santa, Leprechauns and no-strings-attached one nighters.
Sorry to break it to ya.
This whole "End Times" hysteria is just so much puffed up nonsense. There are not any more wars now than there have ever been, they are just more publicized in an more and more interconnected world. And it is mere historical illiteracy that allows people to think that all wars occur de novo. They actually do not. they are most often due to lingering social tensions from earlier periods.
W W II grew from the cancer of discontent left after W W I.
W W I was deeply rooted in the Franco Prussian War.
The Franco Prussian War had many ties to issues left unresolved after the Napoleonic Wars.
And so, on and on.
Gloom and doom was a big fizzle in the Year 1000 CE. It came to a head again before Year 2000 CE and it will do it again in Year 3000 CE. If and when we humans finally come to an end (The Earth is much more secure) somebody will probably jump up and say "See, See! I told you so!"
W W II
Jesus took one look, turned around, and went back.
If by that you mean the end of the horrific socialist "experiment" in Europe, I concur.
Face it, we are simply not that important in the grand scheme. Like every other generation who has said the same thing. Life is meant to be muddled through yourself, not wiating for someone else to swoop down and bail you out from the hard stuff. It's such a cop out.
Ugh. Dude really? I got a bible quote for you: Taketh thy head out of thy ass.
Do you even read your Bible? Nothing that is happening now supports what your Bible predicts. Where is the anti-christ? The 1000 years of peace? Sure the famine and the wars part is spot on but it has been for centuries. But yeah, lets just sit back and wait for some mythical savior to return instead of trying to actually fix our problems. There is a reason your faith is dying, because people have evolved to realize how ignorant it is.
Ben, get a hold of yourself! This isn't even the worst economic crisis of the past century- and we managed to survive that one without the intervention of The Savior. He's not coming. Not now. Perhaps you should wait another two millenia.
Jesus has been here for an hour. He's pruning the bushes right now.
HA! Idiot. You have no idea what Germany has planned. They've been planning this ever since they knew they were going to lose WWII. Rather than conquer Europe by war, this time they're conquering it financially. The end result is the same, and eventually Germany will destroy the U.S., and much sooner than you think. Herbert Armstrong laid out this scenario over 60 years ago. And now along comes little Zakaria Faheed to fill us in. Again, I say, HA!
I love conspiracy thoughts like this. A plan 70 years in the making. Sure. China had a pretty totalitarian hold on their society and their 5 year plans could barely get by. Good thing as more time piles on things get simpler.
Yes, correct!
And we have a new "wonder weapon" the US dreams of. You should be exited what Germany will show the world in a short time.
The US Empire failed and the new superpower will be the German/Russian Empire. Look forward something´s comming.
Yours
the German
First of all, US will not fail. If we fail we take everyone down with us. May be a little conceited, but that's life. Nothing is fair in life, greedy people always win.
Du hast recht. Ich glaube.
)))
Ja wohl! Deutschland uber alles!
You're gonna ally with Russia.... Riiiiight.
Oh, wait, you're serious. Allow me to laugh even HARDER.
Sigh..the Germany and Russia alliance is the future..that is funny. Both have serious demographics problems. Germany is a relative pip-squeek in population in comparison to the USA, China and India (the real future). The Euro looks like it may fail too so its not looking good.
You might be onto something with that German/Russian thing. Half the Germans have Russian blood so there is a brotherhood of sorts there. But lol, two of the most arrogant peoples in the world getting together to make a difference. The last time that happened there was a city called Stalingrad.
@ the German, Frau Angela Merkel is not only the first female chancellor, she is also nicknamed by the Germans "Mutti" – the mother of the nation. According to your assessment she would propably be the first "Kaiserin" of the new German "Reich". Hurray!
Frau Bundeskanzlerin, Europa ergibt sich Ihrer Klugheit und Fürsorglichkeit!
Fekakte schwein, Russian have always hated Germans, Germans have alway hated Russians, and you have the mental accyumen of an Emu.
What Bunk!
Most Russians despise and fear the German Nation. It has been ingrained in them since the days of the Teutonic Knights and reinforced many, many times since. They did not hold a large chuck of Germany hostage for 45 years for no reason and all. That does not even include the chunk that is now a part of .
Happy Pipe dreams there, Mein Herr!
Ha! I thought that was funny. Especially the super wonder weapon!
Could you elaborate how a country a tiny fraction the size of the United States could destroy it? I would be willing to accept a reasonable arguement. However, those who depend on prophetic predictions are usually wrong. I have a prophetic prediction also. Papa Smurf and his horde of blue midgets will come in 2012 and take over the world with their magic smurf berries. And there will be enternal peace and happieness on earth as we sing in a giant circle about how Smurfy the world is. Trust me. God me so.
Germany's additional debt per second approx 2 Euro. America's additional debt per second approx $35.
lmao.
Oh PLEASE No, I hate those stupid things.
can Papa Smurf return in glory riding a unicorn?
So, power depends on geographic size. The US better watch out for Canada, they're bigger.
I think he means economic size.
And THIS time they deserve to rule the world. No more letting Greece and other countries spend, spend, spend like a golddigger with her sugar daddy's credit card. Now there will be rules that will have real consequences if they are not followed....
Sieg...STOP!
Germany will go down with the EU!
I agree! Why else does Markel struggle to make this decision, if she lets EU fall, Germany will be further looked down upon. There is a reason why she is hesitating, otherwise she shouldn't have bailed Greece, etc.
Actually, Germany will go down if they do NOT remove themselves from the EU countries that can't seem to get their act together. There is a push in Germany right now in which Germans want to get out of the EU because they believe they cannot afford to be the bank to these countries. Germans, by and large, are tired of this and want to become another Switzerland. Merkel knows this and if she wants her party to continue to "rule" she better take this into consideration when she makes this decision. The reality is, Germans are sick and tired of paying for everyone else.
Why has no one focused on how much Germany exports to all these debt ridden countries? I know Germany can't prop them up forever, but if Greece/Spain/Italy etc. fail, who's going to buy and pay for all teh German products? This is just like China being dependent on the US – any chance they'd sit by and let us 1) stop importing Chinese products (i.e., everything we buy except tomatoes and .... ok, just tomatoes) and 2) cancel a few billion $$ in government debt they hold? Germany needs these markets; they'll figure out a way (and probably make France and a few others pay for it)..
Ich werde dich zerstören!!
I see your purchase of Rosetta Sone has paid off... And no, you will destoy yourself!
Möchten Sie Pommes dazu?
Batman will save us!
Hmmm.. Given the same dilemma, what would Batman do?
The first German guy I knew was in undergrad. He came to our state school and made all of us look like bumbling fools. His work was amazing, he worked hard and he was smart. It was flabbergasting and inspirational at the same time. He was simply vastly more prepared to be in college than the rest of us. I've had the pleasure of working with more Germans since then and almost without exception it has been the same. They are disciplined, well educated, and work hard. We could take some cues ...
Now your going to tell me he has blonde hair, blues eyes and he stand 6'4. And his name is Thor...
I agree. I supposedly went to a decent high school, but it's still not as good as getting and 'Abitur' from Germany. I felt I had to re-learn a lot of things during my bachelor's degree.There is something seriously wrong today with the American education system.
Settle down before you start goosestepping. Germany still has a lot of issues with it's East and West thing. They're just flexing their muscles because everyone else in Europe is worse off than themselves.
...pssst: I heard this from Der Verschwörer: 'Boo!!'
no problem! just as long as I get a new S550
I wish our more of our politicians in the US were as brave as Angela Merkel. There is nothing wrong with balancing self-interest tempered with thinking of a larger good. But it reminds us, it's easy to spend "other people's money." That's what shared sacrifice is about. Everybody steps up to the bar and does his or her part. Most of all, they appreciate those doing more than their fair share.
Yes and they show their appreciation for asking for even more then next time.
Not sure I fully understand how people who receive welfare can be thought to be sacrificing anything as long as they continue to not work and continue adding nothing to the system. Receiving a smaller handout or no handout at all isn't a sacrifice, because you're not giving up anything you deserve to have.
Great article! I am really looking forward to the future... it will be different and something new for sure!
Quick..everyone run out and start stocking up on food and water...and tin foil hats.
Y'all are really weird.
The E.U is not run by the French and if Germany can infuse its fiscal model in the other members, she will support Europe. The opposite would be most that German products shut out of European countries because of the over-priced new Deutsche mark.
Isn't this the fundamental issue of the global problem and it is not just Germany. In this instance, the Germans want the benefit of the Euro (lower exchange rate of Euro vs Mark which helps/supports their export driven economy) without having to pay for it (Don't force my interest rates higher / make me pay for my partners problems). Same in US (I want all my promised benefits / let someone else pay for them). Same in China (I want to grow and export but at a controlled / favorable exchange rate). Isn't this the classic economic quandry of unlimited wants and limited resources. Am I missing something.
Seems like no matter what the situation in this troubled world Faheed has the answer. Armchair quarterbacking by candidates and the press is free speech. Yeah free speech! Logic dictates several solutions are possible in this mode but that is when one person is putting an idea through with no resistance and that is not Washington or the world or how public opinion is splintered with hate and is lashing out. Good luck Europe, behind closed doors work it out and then come out and say so and be positive and rebuild and I think we should take a lesson from that concept too to get some sense to going forward. Destroying a country is not a family value. No matter what political party, we all and our children's children live in the same country and world, Wake up hard heads.
At some point you just have to stop throwing good money after bad.
What we are seeing is self inflicted- not a divine reckoning. The question that has so far failed to be asked is, "Is there a fatal flaw in Capitalism?". We all took pleasure in watching the collapse of the Soviet Union and Communism, but it pales in comparison to this global meltdown of Capitalism. And, as the disparity between rich & poor continues to expand, we could well see violence spread throughout developed nations.
True Capitalizm allows for failure. We do not. Therein lies the difference, as well as the cause of our economic issues. While it may seem "mean" to say it, Darwin and the animal kingdom had it right all along. The weak, when allowed to drag down the strong, will do just that.
I don't see why the Eurozone simply does not kick out repeatedly non-compliant countries such as Greece. Historically, the only thing that motivates nations and peoples to apply painful changes is the fear of far more difficult changes. Greece may hold a particularly symbolic place as a cradle of Western civilization, but that debt has been paid long ago by the more prosperous European nations that run their economic affairs more responsibly. Germany, on the other hand, may have held some responsibility toward other European countries due to its behavior in World War II, but the generations that were responsible for that behavior are nearly all gone, so I don't see why Germany should have to carry that burden of social debt indefinitely.
Greece gave out far too generous social packages while letting itself become a nation of tax-cheats. It is time to let it go. It will then become an example for other wayward Eurozone nations to make the changes necessary to stay compliant to the original Eurozone rules of responsible economic planning.
because if they kicked out Greece, they'd have to kick out a bunch of others, then there would be no point in the Euro. Maybe they should kick out Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugual ...
As I understand it, Greece was the worst of the so called PIIGS (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, and Spain) that were in economic difficulty. I believe that the other members of that group are more borderline. If Greece was set as an example of what happens if you completely bypass economic rules, then the other more borderline countries might be more inclined to make the major changes necessary to stay solvent. If they don't, then I don't see how the Euro will be able to survive either way.
Bettina:
I think the general model is simply broken. You can't have a single currency without a single government controlling the policies that have a drastic and direct impact on how sound their economy and by extension their currency is.
If countries like Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland, etc. have the liberty to create debt without penalty and can run back to the more fiscally sound countries for more "bail-outs", then the system simply cannot work. Citizens in countries that are more fiscally conservative will get pretty tired of paying for other countries' poor judgement.
I agree.
There were originally supposed to be rules of responsible economic behavior followed by countries that would take part in the Eurozone. Unfortunately, those rules were laxly enforced – which is why the Eurozone is in its current predicament. However, I do not think it is too late to restore fiscal solvency to the Eurozone since it is not too late to start enforcing those rules. Kicking out Greece would be one big step toward that goal.
As for a single government controlling the Eurozone economic policy, I just don't see that happening in the near term – perhaps only later once enough economic pain has been experienced. It took a civil war in the US to change it from a relatively loose union of separately powerful states to a more centrally unified nation. The Eurozone might also need to experience more pain before nations are willing to give up full economic sovereignty.
Wow Inge, that almost sounds like issues in the US. How long with the working class pay for the way for those not working? Citizens that are more fiscally conservative will get pretty tired of paying for others' poor judgment.
Just to clarify something for the conspiracy nut: Yeah no plan just people being normal and saying enough is enough, we have been paying every countries way that announced it needed some sort of bailout by the way of the IMF and our own Funds. Meanwhile our social security and retirement payments had to be cut and our unemployment is reaching levels that were unheard of. So much for that.
Overall I think that Merkel is smart to help in the bailouts but the picture is becoming clearer that the Mediterranean countries seem to have mismanaged not only their books but also blatantly lied to other countries about their situations before joining the EU indicates to me that it may be very possible that the EU may fail due to the amounting failure of these countries to manage themselves.
The idea of bailouts has to stop it seems everywhere its thought that bailouts are the solution but all it does as the Author of this article stated "kick the can forward". In other words... We are going to have a rolling Recession/Depression as the measures to reduce/eliminate debt are seemingly blocked by idiots who cannot get over their political ideologies and put the people and their country first. Some may say they are doing this by being idiots, but to be honest butting heads doesn't and hasn't seem to work... Cooperation with some "Sacrifices" may work...
By the way that doesn't just go for the U.S. it goes for all countries currently in financial difficulties or the ones that "think they aren't".
These are my 2 Euro/Canadian/US Cents use them well... as i don't have many more to give... my wallet is somewhat empty as of late.
(it is important to emphasize there is nothing scary about Germany simply saying that it wants to do what’s right for Germany as well as Europe rather than always putting Europe above Germany)
Yet, the U.S. can't pull up stakes and go home on the global economy? We have to bail out Europea banks to save the world? There is so much European elitism going on right now it's sickening, let them all fail. German economic strength is all smoke and mirrors anyway, the whole socialist system is a joke. How long can these countries pay for every last citizens health care, education, and early retirement before it implodes. At least the U.S. transparent in our problems. Europe covers it all up and prays no one shines a light on it.
Um... how is it smoke and mirrors? People in Germany work hard to make quality products, have low unemployment, socialized medicine, and certainly pay for it through high taxes. And they like how they live.
Several European states actually lend money to the US EVERY DAY.
So after the U.S. tricked the entire world in thinking their problems are now solved it's Europe again which will be leading the world into despair? The focus is deliberately placed on Europe by american media to avoid having to explain where their own debt repayment is going to come from. I wish the world would come to its senses soon...
Nicht blutigen wahrscheinlich!
Hahaha nice google translation
Frau Angela Merkel should devote herself to her own children rathan than mothering others, who are no longer manageable. It's important that her children have all love and care so they stand on their own oneday.
She doesn't have any children.
The nation's population is her children!
The nation is her children!
its funny how we created a superficial system of barter and currency that is destroying everything and almost everyone. but we reject the idea that what we have created is bad
I don't approve of what they do, but why always Germany? Where is FRANCE?? UK???
Because they don't have the money.........
The UK isn't part of the Eurozone. They still use actual money.
I do agree with Mr. Zakaria that the current economic crisis in Greece, as also other countries incl. Spain, Iceland, Italy, UK, may in fact spell the end of the European Union.
There is yet another aspect that Mr. Zakaria will NOT touch upon and that's the effect of massive amounts of UNADAPTABLE, WELFARE migrants (both legal & illegal) mainly from Muslim countries that is testing the ECONOMIC & CULTURAL fabric of these GREAT JUDO-CHRISTIAN civilizations with DISASTROUS CONSEQUENCES. Effects of these we have already seen in Norway, Holland, the UK, France, Italy, Greece, Belgium etc.
Given that Europeans already pay HUGE AMOUNT of TAXES to sustain their Social-Democratic setup geared towards uplifting the poor & downtrodden, the CONSTANT BARRAGE of WELFARE IMMIGRANTS sneaking in to benefit from these largesse is already hitting the European belly really hard, and TRANSFORMING the DEMOGRAPHIC GROUNDS of Europe FOREVER!
This threat is all the more serious given the over 10 times the growth experienced by these Muslim immigrants in the UK (& most of Europe), while there is a REAL DECREASE in the indigenous WHITE POPULATION!
With Islamist supporters like Mr. Zakaria clamoring for MUSLIM TURKEY to embraced by the EU, this CULTURAL & ECONOMIC downturn of Europe is bound to continue as Mr. Zakaria rightly said......albeit for slightly different reasons!
Here's an interesting story on how Muslims (particularly Pakistanis) have drawn up a major plan to SWAMP Europe while projecting it as a partnership between Europe & Pakistan!
http://www.pkhope.com/pakistan-population-2050/
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Your use of capital letters is inspiring. PERHAPS we should all CAPITALIZE words where EMPHASIS would otherwise merely be IMPLIED. Because everyone knows that makes CRACKPOT THEORIES more BELIEVABLE.
HILARIOUS Wilson!!!
My dear Amit from Atlanta,
In your supreme ignorance you failed to mention that the United States of America was once inhabited solely by native peoples–who were exterminated, or, at the very least, treated quite poorly when the Europeans came a knocking. I don't recall anyone in Europe complaining about it.(I dare say that I am certain that your ancestors aren't Native Americans.) It's called karma. What goes around, comes around. Europeans took other lands, and now darkies from elsewhere are taking theirs. Quid pro quo.
It is funny that this Amit from Atlanta talks about WELFARE and PAKISTANIS, considering that he is a dark indian immigrant whose country is one of the top locations where jobs are being outsourced from the US.
Mr. Amit, don't start digging a hole because of your hatred and non-acceptance of a particular country as someone might nudge you from behind in it because they don't like a "darky" like you either.
Susan:
You are right the British had occupied my former homeland (India) as well as my current homeland (US).
They left India lock, stock & barrel and while India did suffer from the British rule in certain ways they also left behind a huge legacy (Education, Postal service, railways, English Language etc.) which india is surely benefiting from.
So the CRUCIAL DIFFERENCE is the British/Europeans left these countries for good whereas the NEWER WELFARE IMMIGRANTS into Europe are there to take over those lands! With the gradual decline of the indigenous, tolerant, white Christian population, Europe 100 yrs.from now will take a NEW PERMANENT LOOK just like Pakistan is today!
We see rampant signs of that transformation already in the ghettos of London, Paris (much like what you see in Pakistan!).
I say this being myself a DARK skinned (as you put it!), non-Christian immigrant to this GREATEST OF NATIONS!
Please note that most Americans (as are Europeans) are open to immigrants (even dark ones like me!) who will melt into their societies, contribute to the nation and NOT be economic and cultural parasites!
Amit-Atlanta-USA
The end is nigh. We will all be fending for ourselves soon. When it all comes apart, we will all be thrown into a modern dark ages where civil law vanishes. Get ready.
only if enough ignorant people turn it into a self-fulfilling prophecy through their own actions or inaction... it is comical how those with all the 'answers' to secrets of the afterlife offer no solutions for making this life better, other than everyone conforming to their social dogma, masked as religion.
Fortunately, in Germany people don't care about religion as much as you apparently do. So they probably will not believe in that "End" and simply continue doing whatever they do.
Germany can not simply "cut and run" from the EU. It must be done in stages. First – withdraw from the EU and operate the way the UK does. Second – re-establish their own currency, the Mark. Third – close their borders. While these measures might look superficial, they will allow the Germans to take care of their own interests first. It is, after all, their own money. They shouldn't have to spend it on supporting a "socialist Europe".
Who ever thought that a European union will last is dreaming. Europeans have a tradition of waging wars against each other for centuries and embracing each other all of a sudden is I think too far out.
Sure, Germany has to bailout Europe, and the US has to bailout Germany, just like we had to bailout GM. The time to face the truth and brace for the pain is here. No one can stop the collapse of several socialist countries in Europe and no one should try. The crisis will pass and the changes will be forced to happen dismantling the nanny states. Europe will rise again when they turn away from socialism.
Don't forget that Europe had to bail out Germany after the fall of the wall. Some awesome president Reagan was to "tell" Germany what to do. Of course it crashed the German economy so bad, they had to push back the launch of the Euro because Germany's debt was too high from helping out the east german areas. Europe had to help Germany to reduce its debt so the Euro could go ahead as planned. So NO, Germany will not let Europe fail.
Heya Jade
The bailouts in the European Banks would be purely self serving. However I do not see anywhere in any news where it states that the United States are in fact bailing out European Banks.
In fact I do not see anywhere where the U.S.A. bailed out European Banks, as these were primarily bailed out by the uhm oh yeah European Countries. Aside from that many European Banks guess what are owned by now defunct American Banks and being sold to trim their assets.
As far as health care goes that part works quite well in Germany, maybe not in Greece or Italy. If you don't see your country being able to do that, thats fine it may not work for you but don't start bad mouthing our countries if you have no clue about our systems. To bad mouth something just because you don't seem to get it makes you seem extremely ignorant.
This is why I've been studying German for the past several years. Not only is it a beautiful language, it will increase as the language of business in the future.
You are delusional. If that's true, you'd better learn Dutch every time you get gas at Shell, because oh yeah Shell is a Dutch company....
Actually Germany doesn't have universal health care per se, unlike Spain, Italy, UK, France, Canada. Those countries are having problems but not because of their universal health coverage. In Germany,unlike the US, a person will actually be turned away from a hospital if no proof of insurance or funds is available. And the US does have many public hospitals by the way which the poorest have access to an in which the qulity of care is not necessarily below that of the universal systems.
Things are looking great in Canada!
You may want to learn Chinese as well, though. Just in case.
Let the EU fail !
The only way things change for the better is if there is no longer the means to support the status que that got them all into this mess in the first place.
Oh... and before I forget, I've lived in Europe 1/3rd of my life and have seen first hand the changes that were brought about from the EU union and the Euro. IMO this was the worst thing to happen to Europe since WWII as all of the individual nations lost their uniqueness. Further more, the only group that directly benifited from the Euro were the rich as the middle / lower class suffered much hardship with the hyper inflation that resulted. Now here we are today with social goverments that are on the verge of collapse because of fiscal mismanagement... It's not like noone saw this comming but rather they've kicked the can over and over again, untill they've run out of road.
It all depends on your perspective. If you lived in Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Poland you benefitted a great deal from the EU.
germany has been by far the biggest benefactor by creating a common market to sell all their goods to. life just got more expensive everywhere else to the point that compnies that had once outsourced to 'cheap' spain, portu, ireland have since moved on to cheaper. the particular case of spain has not been one of fiscal irresponsibility in the least. they were trul collateral damage from the giant us pozi scheme gone bust.
The author is right on one point – the debt MUST be centralized. Then, the EU MUST enact some of the US' better policies, that is, the member states MUST balance their budgets annually - no deficits whatsoever. In addition, they should be required to pay towards the centralized debt. This federalization is actually a strength of the US. The states must balance their budgets. Only the ECB should be allowed to issue debt. Then all EU member taxes are paid out to the member states as a proportion of population or some other formula using extra monies to prop up weaker states like Greece from time to time. In the US we do this all the time to support deadbeat states like Alabama and Alaska who take in far more federal tax dollars than they pay in taxes. Individually, this will have enormous impact on each member EU state which will take time to rectify. But the upshot is that control of debt and collapse of states would be avoided.
Pardon me Jay but last time i checked.... The US policies that your talking about are the very same ones that allowed our government to run amok and create the current debt fiasco. Further more, most of our states are on the verge of defaulting as well with the lower property taxes resulting from the housing crash. Only thing is that the "other shoe" hasn't dropped yet... Just wait until your state and local governments fail to fund road works, schools, police and all the other "services" that we take for granted.
Hell with all of this in mind... The US is the last country on Earth that should be telling the EU or Germany how to handle their money.
Funny how the Europeans are going to insist on a balanced budget stipulation for those countries needing bailed out. I guess the tea party has gone global! Obama's dream European style society is evaporating before his eyes. Even they understand simple economics. You have to live within your means. There needs to be a balanced budget ammendment here. If any political party wants to overspend they would have to cut or raise taxes. I would like to see them defend raising taxes for some of the crap they have rolled out of washington in the past few years!
Within reason, debt is a good thing. Governments, corporations and individuals have carried debt for centuries, including the newly formed U.S.A. in 1776. The balanced budget mantra of the Tea Party is just as ridiculous as the runaway spending they abhor.
The welfare dream lives fine in Germany and many other countries, like Canada and Australia.
It's always the problem with Southern States, both in Europe and in US!
Welfare is being abused in Germany big time. Don't think it works to give someone more money if he/she doesn't work, than if they do work. There is a generation of kids growing in Germany now which has parents that never worked for a living. A lot of those kids will just end up on welfare themselves.
OMG. You people are an embarrassment to all Americans. Throwing around the word socialism, WW2 conspiracy, the EU will fail etc. You are so clueless.
To: LMAO
Well, i can't say that you've contributed a god dam thing of signifigance in your post other then to troll / bash other posters.
You forgot all the claims of "Jesus is coming, Jesus is coming!"
I completely agree with you. Yes we American are clueless. As a hyphenated American and as a European immigrant from an ex-socialist country I can say Americans are so ignorant, superficial, and ill educated about many things. Who do you think benefited more from a cheap work force freely travelling from ex Soviet Union sphere of interest countries than Germany. Germany had an influx of cheap labor since sixties (Turkey, Yugoslavia) and continued to have the same after dissolution of the Eastern bloc. It is the time for Germany to repay some of the wealth and economic might they acquired to the rest of Europe since they have been profiting from them for such long time. Not to mention that that would be also morally appropriate. I do not think that Germany will get away from that. It is a payback time. And by the way I am partially of a German origin.
Interesting article. But don't be so sure that Germany won't benefit from taking on debts -http://germanywatch.blogspot.com/
Interesting article. But don't be so sure that Germany won't benefit from taking on debts – http://germanywatch.blogspot.com/
Aren't we in the US opposed to any and all bailouts?
Why should germany endlessly bailout the profligate greeks, italians, portuguese, Irish ?
The peripheral prosperity was fake, built upon euro membership. Now their living standards should deflate naturally. For their own good, they should quit the euro. Reintroduce their old currency. Let the markets decide the correct exchange rates and become exporters.
Europe is being punished for their sins. If America is to be saved from the same fate, we MUST take back out country. Either by votes or by blood, America WILL return to its christian conservative roots. Baby killing, Abomination marriage, Race welfare, and Sin culture will be addressed soon enough and liberals will be treated as the traitors to this country and to their LORD Jesus Christ soon enough.
Ok, who gave the KKK and religious nutts internet access ?
I call "Troll".
by your logic the Chinese are being 'blessed' with their growth due to promoting abortion?
Ask the billions burning for eternity how blessed they are. Satan has fooled them with false prosperity. God loves America so we are being punished for our sins. If God did not show us our error, we would be barred from entry into His kingdom like the Asians and the Muslims
nonsense, humans need to evolve past religion much faster than we are.
Is that you Ted(Nugent)?
Holy S__T! I hope this came from a rubber room equiped with wireless internet . . .
*Pillars, firstly. Secondly, Europe is being punished the same way we are - because we spend more than we bring in. God has nothing to do with governments and their budgets.
7 pillers of Society...You are a friggin' idiot. Let me restate a friggin' IDIOT!
Time for guns
Sorry to tell all of you this but this is but the beginning of a GLOBAL collapse and yes it is by design. Our leaders actually 'want' global redistribution of wealth so that the economic systems all fail and they can usher in their New World Order.
You might want to get a bigger tin foil hat. I think yours is a little small and cutting off the flow of blood to your brain.
I think in many people's eyes the concept of Europe was a social one, and then secondly an economic one. The idea was to have such an interlinked economic system that military interests would always be trumped by economic ones. In light of this, it is easier to understand why countries such as Greece and Portugal, which had poor economic households to begin with, were allowed to cheat a bit in order to get into the EU.
Naw.. It's the planet removing viruses (us) and re-booting.
At 72 I have seen way more than I wanted to but will take the memories of our once beautiful Earth when I go.
We could solve all the World's problems with this one simple step: Pick one day where everyone on the planet wakes up and goes out and kills just one other person. By nightfall there would be enough gas, oil, food, housing, jobs, land, money, etc. for the ones left alive and probably pollution, global warming and a host of other problems could be well on the way to being solved! How does Christmas morning sound to all?
Can I bang your sis before I kill her?
Yes, as soon as my dog is done with your mother.
Your theory makes a disturbing amount of sense. Ethical quandries aside, the biggest problem with it is the 3.5 billion dead bodies left over as a result. I mean, we could Soylent Green the lot of them, but that just seems like a lot of effort.
@Doug:
Okay, let's do the math here. Everyone wakes up and kills one person. Let's make this simple... a two-person planet, and they are supposed to kill only one person. So essentially you are saying we should kill ourselves.
I am sure the animals and planet would not mind our departure, though the house pets and zoo animals, et cetera would eventually wonder when they will get their next meal.
Doug why not start with yourself? Do it for the worlds good!
if we would stop rebelling against God ... He will be more likely to bless us again.
Amen Brother
And when did he bless us? Was it during the Crusades? How about the Inquisition? The Plague? The Phillipino Insurrection? WWI? No? Well maybe WWII? Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Etc etc etc? Tell us pleas...WHEN?
What we are experiencing is the decline of the human species' population. For 30,000 years we have been on the growth track. That is about to halt – for the first time. Our cultures and societies are not prepared for that: we assume growth and our principles are based on growth. During our lives we will experience the first decline and perhaps even the population climax around the year 2050. From there, the population will collapse from 8 billion back to 2 billion people, where it may either stabilize – if we focus on durable economies – or collapse further if we cling to our growth mentalities. It is a test of time to see how "flexible" the human species really is. Oh, and by the way, there will be global war and famine for a century.
Oh yes there is no doubt, the end is coming. I about 2 to 4 Billion years when the sun runs out of hydrogen (fuel). Every scientist knows that and YOU can take that to the bank.
Until then, many idiots, belonging to all kinds of religions and cults (ever wondered what the difference between those really is? Only how long they've been around!) will regularly come up with dates and collect from the suckers who believe in that crap. About 84% of humanity! IF people woke up to the facts, these scam artists would all starve, instead of driving Rolls Royces.
hopefully we're off this rock in the next 2000 years.. in plenty of time before our sun becomes a red giant.
Not quite that simple to determine exactly what German self-interest is. They export about 70% of their industrial output to the rest of the EU members. If they allow their export markets to fail, that will cause direct damage to the German economy. So the Germans do have a common destiny with Europe that they cannot escape. It's interesting that no one is discussing the root causes of why other EU economies have not prospered. It is not because of excessive budgets alone, but of mismanagement of their economies, primarily liberalization of markets and improving their human capital. At least in the USA you can start a business without much delay and red tape. Interestingly Germany thrives despite its high social costs and highly regulated business environment. That points to human capital as the primary success factor.
Height of irony – Germany goes from almost taking down Europe 70 years ago to having to bail it out. Embrace change.
Makes sense. Germany is high tech, with not so great agriculture. A lot of Europe is low tech with lots of food production. In order to get the rest of Europe to buy its gizmos, they've had to do more than just get foodstuffs from them – perhaps in the past, they lent money. With the European Union, they just let themselves be taken advantage of, and the working-off-the-guilt thing, now wearing down (especially with the incorporation of East Germany), must be rethought. Apparently given open credit card privileges to the Greeks and others was not working out.
The only solution I can see that has any hope of working (aside from letting countries fail) is for Europe to begin issuing EU Bonds, like Treasury Bonds. They can buy or exchange these for countries debt loads. It won't completely nullify Greece or Portugal's obligation to pay but will spread the debt load across more able-bodied countries.
It's not a fantastic solution if you're Germany or Norway but it may be the only way to save the European Union and Monetary system, assuming that's what they want to do.
I agree with issuing treasury bonds.
I think Germany is sending a strong message to the rest of Europe that you're responsible for your own debt. Greece is going to have to get its debt paid off and the rest of the european countries. How to get there is another story.
Wow, illiterate religious discussions.
Weak minds need Jesus.
Any Video Gamer knows the solution to solving a "Running out of money" problem. Take over and dominate another country and absorb their resources. There. We'll see another war in the next 5 years, as will europe.
Deutschland über alles!!! That this is the reality of the modern Europe is hilarious. I think Rome was great, but as a late bloomer, Germany is kind of Heiß!!!
The Euro is the renamed Deutsche Mark. Germany indeed runs things. Countries need to control their debt. There is just so little lash back these days from not paying back a debt. back in the days a country got invaded and had their cities quartered by troops when payments stopped.
Maybe Germany should go for three?
Yes...The end is near...send me all your money so you may go to heaven
The real problem is the international central banks! These super rich vampires are controlling ALL of the stock companies in an effort to create chaos and drive the fear level up. They've done it MANY, MANY times before just not on this level. LEARN YOU HISTORY! YOU IGNORANT SHEEPLE!
The real problem is the international central banks! These super rich vampires are controlling ALL of the stock companies in an effort to create chaos and drive the fear level up. They've done it MANY, MANY times before just not on this level. LEARN YOU HISTORY! YOU IGNORANT SHEEPLE!
Why does this bonehead, Zakaria, have a public forum? He is as clueless as Obama.
Because he is smart and an Indian. U dig?
Let's not be naive and say the Jesus is the solution to our problems. Praying is glorified hope. We should have hope, but tangible solutions is wha's needed. I agree with 'doomsday', the end is coming; when the sun blows up! Humanity has its flaws, but is human to try and correct them; hence why we create governements that will inevitably fail. To say that we should give up and put it in God's hands is the most ignorant thing you can say. They say Faith is hard, but in reality, it's easy to say that God will do it for us. Wake up America! We are on the brink of destroying ourselves and all that half of this country has to say is "God will save us." C'mon guys.
One of the most intelligent comments I've read today. Thank you.
The new Reich from Spain to Russia.
You hit the nail on the head, Fareed.
Backing up a bit, though, why did Germany want to control Europe under Hitler? Do any of those reasons still apply? If so, perhaps Germany would be willing to pay for hegemony over Europe? In other words, let them buy control over other nations.
Religion or not, we are definitely corroding. We are becoming more and more like the Chinese and India before Christ, politic correctness, no more black and white, everything is Ying and yang, everything is free to do.
Ironically, Germany may take over Europe after all.
Every sane person knows the Solution to economic crisis, but dont want to know accept it. It is the 'Interest'. Close down all blood-sucking banks and trade on cash. then there wont be any bubbles, no inflation, and no economic crisis, other than natural disasters.
After all that's what Jesus was trying to teach Jewish brothers, but they didnt listen.
I hope you're not saying we should base financial policies on what the New Testament says.
Because if so, LOL
Yeah, and we can all save until we're 60 until we have enough cash for a house. Great plan.
Ahahahahahahahaahhhhhh!!!!!
Fundamentally if the EU is going continue to have a monetary union they need to have a separation between central finances and local finances. The central government needs to have its own taxing authority and have some responsibility for continent-wide projects. The markets would then look to the central government's stability to determine their confidence in the Euro and worry less about what the local governments are going. If you compare this to the U.S., for example, if Illinois were to default it would be a big deal but the ultimate impact to the dollar and the national credit rating would not be all that bad. The markets would recognize that the default of a one state's government has only a limited impact on the rest of the country. The EU's continuing to bail out the local government's is rather like the U.S. government committing to bailing out the states if they default. In the short term that re-assures markets a little but in the long term that saps confidence in federal stability (as it should).
Well, unlike the US it appears that Germany has figured out that you cannot carry the world. And unlike the US they did it before they went broke.
I see the path gets ever wider, Christ's despair that men are lost by their own desire for easy returns. What holds true in the world of finance also holds true in the world of spirituality. The difference is that their expectations are not going to be met as they desire. They will all indeed receive their recompense with perfect accuracy. You better all run and tell Jesus that he didn't do a very good job as Christ's Prophet. You all have a sunny day.
Say, what?
Fareed, are you becoming a Euroskeptic?
RIP European Union: 1993 – 2012.
We hardly knew ye.
Honestly I saw this coming as no union not even the Soviet Union could survive under one currency for a very long time. The time is beginning to show that no one currency not even with the Brentwood Conference for usd supremecy will hold up in coming years. Fact is that the world financial organization needs to quit playing favoritism and to restructure trade agreements for balance. Fact again is that Greece, Italy, Span, Portugal and Ireland need to work this out by opting out of the Euro as soon as legally permissable and to restructure by themselves with a guarnteed bail out and destruction of government and replacing them with Euro members on the fiscal positions. It is the only way even with very high interest the piper is in time to pay.
That's not exactly true, the US dollar was THE money of the world for over 50 years. Since the US economy started to falter in the 90's (due to the lack of the military using tax dollars to drive a military based economy) the world started to slowly become more unstable. The US tired to "patch it up with small wars but the bankers making money from the war wanted more. So in the late 90's the cooked up PNAC – So a war could be started to make them more money. And they succeeded but since Europe didn't share in the spoils, they faltered. And here we are today....
Fareed Zakaria's analysis on this issue is 100% spot on. My friends in Germany say their country is sick of carrying all the dead weight in other European countries. They consider the Greeks, Italians, and Spanish to be very lazy, not very intelligent, and generally unworthy of any more assistance. Germans now feel all their hard work is going to subsidize other people's leisurely lifestyle. They were willing to make some serious sacrifices to keep the EU going, but they feel they are being taken advantage of by a bunch of leeches and beggars.
Yeah, the Germans tend to generalize a lot and calling whole countries lazy etc. Last time they did that was with another group of people, the Jewish, and that didn't turn out well did it?
Step 1: Use silly stereotypes and even de-humanize whole populations to the eyes of your citizens (see "PIIGS")
Steps 2 on are yet to be seen, but history tends to repeat itself, we all know that.
Well good job in doing exactly the same as the "evil" germans...
Dear Mr. Zakaria,
Don't you get a bit frustrated and depressed when you write an intelligent article, and all you get in reply are a bunch of Jesus Freaks sputtering nonsense?
I know I do.
It must make you think: "Why bother"?
Because he did not provide a solution!
One has to wonder how Germany has the financial resources to continue to bail out much of the rest of the E.U. The continued bailout prospects involve a metaphorical two-edged sword – Germany has much capital invested in the rest of Europe which could go down the drain if other countries fail, but it also may go down the drain itself if it continues to bail them out. Add to that the negative German public opinion about continued bailouts and the Merkel government may be defeated in the next election, resulting in the possible end of bailouts and in radical political and economic change for Europe.
The whole purpose of the Euro was to allow the financial industries of emerging economies in post soviet-bloc Eastern Europe to piggyback off of the liquid and stable monetary systems of the established Western Europe nations. This idea was doomed to fail from the outset – there's a reason why the U.K. and Switzerland, the other two economic powers of the EU, wanted nothing to do with the Euro. Germany's acceptance of it was purely to take advantage of short term gains from increased trade with Eastern Europe, which benefited Germany disproportionally. It's not that German politicians who voted to adopt the Euro didn't know that this day would come, they just knew that it would come after the next election. On the bright side, uncertainty about the Euro is probably the only reason why the dollar might still have any international relevance 5-10 years from now.
The German Central banks are HOPING the other EU countries fail. It will be the easiest way to take over Europe. The bank failed to do it in WWII with war so now they are trying with money. LEARN YOUR HISTORY! Those bank backed both sides of the war! Who lost the war? The people did! Just wait, the bank will start taking over govts in the near future.
I think it's about time this country started behaving like Germany. Take care of ourselves first before worrying about taking care of the rest of the word.
What's with all the Jesus freaks up in this thread? If you really want to impress God, maybe go volunteer at a charity or at least go take a hike and appreciate the beauty that you believe he created. Sitting on the internet shouting about end times and how God wants us to only pay in cash is not only silly, but lazy, and doesn't really go to the point where Jesus wanted people to not only say good things, but DO good things.
Don't you know that God sits around in his underwear reading comments on CNN?
there is no need for good works if you believe faith alone is the answer. Every protestant minister will tell you so. its kind of , well you can if you want to but nothing can change your "fate". For all who believe Jesus is "coming back" read Matthew 28:20(?) " I am WITH you ALWAYS"
Germany is probably noticing financially how similar this would be for itself to the war reparations of WWI and saying, Danke schein, nein.
It's still beyond me how a country like Germany can go through two world wars and be defeated twice, a depression, have half it's country run by the USSR for 40 years, and still come out as a world leading country, all in less than a hundred years.
German work ethic is a bit different than France or Italy where 30 hour work weeks are the norm. Germans work a little more like Americans (though still with more vacation).
Pretty impressive, isn't it?
If at first you don't suceed, try and try and try again.
And this is why the EU economically has been a joke from day one. You are going to share a common currency with the Southern European Catholic countries but have no control over their spending. Way to lend your name to their debt Germany so they could get lots of it cheap. Once again Protestants paying for Catholics just like they have done for 500 years.
There is no way Germany will ever give up the EURO. Even if German popular opinion is 99% for Germany's exit from the Eurozone, the 1% minority (politicians) will not allow it. Come on FZ, all Europeans can now buy all the stuff Germans make so easily in the Eurozone and Germany (primarily) gets to set the monetary policy too. Germany is an economic powerhouse because of the EURO/Eurozone, they will do everything to save it.
That is probably true. But given that France is Germany's top most trade partner, keeping only France in that monetary union could be sufficient for Germany.
The most exciting thing CNN can do is to stem the waterfall of manure that drops from this guy's computer.
Atlas Shrugs. This would be a beautiful thing if working people finally rose up against the welfare and bailout states. Maybe the US will learn from this. Bailing out companies, countries, people does not work. It not only destroys the person who is doing the bailing out and the person supposedly being bailed out but all others.
Who the fk is Zakaria? All I see is posts written by him. Keep your alarmist opinions to yourself. This ain't news. It's stupid.
Ironic, that your post addresses stupidity....
I disagree with the statement about letting Europe fail. Or at least letting the Euro fail. Germanu will not allow it. Who are they going to trade with if they do? Germany has gotten a lot of income out of the Euro creation primarily through its ability to export through the same currency across it's immediate trading neighbours. The Euro is itself the next best thing after the US Dollar. China will not allow the Euro to fail either and will purchase it. Fiscal policy will prevail when push comes to shove. The alternatives are just too bleak and it would be very irresponsible of the European Union to allow for the continuation of the bailouts to occur without central authority. The markets are forcing this centralization to happen which in my view is absolutely correct.
Europe is screwed. Euro was a bad idea, the economy is failing, and Muslims hordes are moving in as fast as they can. Perhaps we should encourage another round of European migration to the U.S.
the idea of aeuropean union was bad to start with, some countries came with high debt or weak currencies...the british got it right to keep their own currency...europ is now saturated, overcrowded and in debt as hell...i am seeing the dissolution of this so called rag tag union as inevitable....it serves no purpose, it doesnt even match the stability of the older benelux...germany should not shoulder their problem, they should watch out for themselves, lest they end up like the US
-What if- ponderings are usually better kept inside one's mind. The same goes for this column. What if Obama resigns? What if oil is found under Salt Lake City? The last we can use now, is scaremongering from the media. Journalists are not innocent bystanders making the occasional remark to the fight of elephant bulls. On the contrary, they are at the knobs of the economy machine. The trust knobs and buttons, more precisely. FRM is using his power to give his beloved USA some relative gain in the war of trust that is going on. Compared to a 14 trillion debt clunking in your ears at the same time, this is but the muttering of a mouse. Germany will not falter and it does not stand alone in North-West Europe. EU GDP: 16 trillion USD. Total debt 9,8 trillion. USA 14,6 trillion USD. Total debt 15 trillion USD. I rest my case. FRM is behaving as a US sports journalist at the Olympic games. Yes you can focus on individual countries. Isn't it a bit more realistic to count the medals over territories or continental blocks of similar size? The emerging picture will quite different. Yes Europe is diverse and has diverse interests. Is that so different from the states within the USA?
The difference in your KEY statement is; The US developed as one country. We had several changes in our monetary system but still one country. The EU was artificially created. In less than a few months, the entire continent changed, hundreds of years of separation, gone! I'm not surprised about this. I knew this would happen when I first heard of it. But I'm a nobody who no one would listen to. Funny how the smartest are ignored while the dumbest rule things.
Bear in mind that the European Economic Community, now the European Union, was built for one central reason – to bind the European countries together, including arch-enemies, so they could no longer plunge the world in massive, global warfare. This has succeeded to date. The fall of the Euro would not spell the end of the Union, but could be a trigger to less centralization and a return to individual nations pursuing solely what they perceive to be in their best interest, for which they do not have a good track record. Bailing out the Euro may be a small price to pay.
Why don't Germany just invade them all? Oh wait...
What an idiot?
Europe is a big place, Acyually Germany comprise only 25% of EU GDP. what idiot is this gu?
Europe contains russian and loads of ex soviet countries. P
irwin: While you are correct and Germany is only one of many countries in the EU, they do carry "only" 25% of the EU's GDP. Put this in perspective: If say Virginia produced 25% of the American economy, who do you think would be running the USA? Iowa? New Hamphire? I think not.
We're being invaded by aliens! Once our financial system fails, chaos will reign. Then it's easy for them to harvest us humans! I say we launch all ICBMs to Mars!
Mr.Zakaria,
I consider you one of the best informed journalists in the US media regarding international politics and usually agree with your statements but in this specific topic your mis-interpret the situation.
The Euro is much older then the actual currency, it basically was established withe the 'European Currency System" in 1972 which linked the currencies of Germany,France,Netherlands, Italy and Luxemburg (today considered "core Europe") together and allowed the currencies to float within plus/minus 2.25 %, later joined by additional countries as they joined the European Union. This lead to a coordinated policies in this countries regarding economics, social systems and trade. After the fall of the iron curtain the majority of Eastern European countries designed their political system close to the German system of "Social Market Policy" (not socialist !!!) and the Skandinavian countries have historically very similar systems. The introduction of the Euro was the basic condition of France and Great Britain to give approval for the re-unification in 1989 and Germany agreed to this, which was very hard based on the experience of the high inflation in 1923 and the strong Deutschmark which was seen as the symbol of the economically development after WW II.
The perception in Germany is that the countries which followed a more liberal economic policy oriented on the US "turbo capitalism" of the US as Ireland, Great Britain and Portugal created the bubbles in the housing markets and the stock markets which after the crash in the financial markets resulted in a crash of their economies. (Greece is the exception as the government obviousely "cooked" the books to full fill the criteria to join the Euro).
Germany is a medium power in the world but the single largest economy in the largest regional economy in the world (the European economy is larger than the US economy). It is the interest of Germany to keep the EU and the Euro strong as this also strengthens the position of Germany. And all political parties in Germany agree on this (except the Left) and this is also strongly supported by the voter.
On the other side the Germans are more focused on economical fundamentals as. economic growth, employment, unemployment and social stability and less on developments of stock markets. And especially they do not be forced in any activities by the US markets, banks and rating agencies as they are seen as the reason of the financial crisis in 2008.
The policy of the chancellor has clearly three targets: give the markets the minimum to keep them happy, create the necessary change in the countries in crisis (which is to be expected policies closer to the countries of core Europe) and support the change with the necessary financial support.
There is one basic agreement in Germany: after two wars the future is a Germany in a closer and closer European Union, everything else is unthinkable.
knowledge increased at rapid rate compared to history of human civilization, along with speed of information? prophecy fulfilled
Israel becoming a nation again? prophecy fulfilled
Increase in natural disasters? http://english.sina.com/technology/p/2010/0128/302222.html
One world currency after economic collapse? Coming soon
As much as I'd like to disagree, I must say that all of the Bible's signs of end times are approaching and at a more rapid pace. It is compared to birth pangs, and it's scary to think that it's happening on our watch. How long or how many years nobody knows, but it is certainly approaching! Jesus lives!
I hate to inform you, my friend, but I'm quite preoccupied right now. You might want to call your local congressman for help with this thing you mortals call "econony."
Keep me posted though. I do read CNN.
If somebody dragged back Jesus in a time machine, he wouldn't recognize a Tea Partier as a follower of his if they had a 500' bible duct-taped to their house. They do not represent his teachings nor influence.
@bruce – I completely agree. They, along with most megachurches and Republican politicians, are nowhere close to what Jesus taught. All they do is drag His name through the mud for their own selfish benefit. There was a reason Jesus said "Give unto Caesar what is Ceasar's" AKA don't get involved with political games, just go out and try to be a good person and help others. Neither side seems to do that, althought the Repubs are def worse.
Yes, Ralph–Jesus is returning. He cometh in the form of the Tea Party, and after Rick Perry takes the helm as President of the United States, Jesus will destroy the entirety of what we now know of as the "world economy" in short order, using their uninformed (albeit very passionate) views of the world and their st@nk-stupid economic theories that are encapsulated in "yer can't spend money yer don't have!"
Remember, Jesus comes to destroy first, and then rebuild. What he will build is not necessarily what anybody wants him to rebuild.
I hope I get chucked into the lake of fire when all is said and done...
STFU!
Germany has always been the power in Europe, since the 7th century. They ended the Roman Empire and then started the next empire under the same name. This will be known as the Fourth Empire.
I would divest myself of euro's if I were you.
How can someone who is completely disconnected from the realities ot the European economy put out this analytical garbage on a day when the markets are absorbing bad economic metrics. To say that this is irresponsible journalism is an understatement.
So what the h.e.l.l. are you saying? That Germany wants to bail out whoever needs to be bailed out in Europe? But that's the debate the Germans are facing now and the article illustrates the analytical aspects of both sides of the arguument quite well. I don't understand your beef.
Read Aloud For Best Effect!!!
The European Union commissioners have announced that agreement has been reached to adopt English as the preferred language for European communications, rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a five-year phased plan for what will be known as EuroEnglish (Euro for short).
In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c." Sertainly, sivil servants will resieve this news with joy. Also, the hard "c" will be replaced with "k". Not only will this klear up konfusion, but typewriters kan have one less letter.
There will be growing publik emthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced by "f". This will make words like fotograf" 20 persent shorter.
In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e"s in the languag is disgrasful, and they would go.
By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" by "z" and "w" by " v".
During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou", and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.
After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer.
Ze drem vil finali kum tru.
Dad!!! Is that you?
That is funny!
Rock
Looks like Hitler's dream is going to come true. Not with military might, but with financial might.
dont SUPRISE me
It was this sort of mess that lent support to Alexander Hamilton's argument for a stronger and more centralized national American government with a national bank in his Federalist Papers. It just makes me wonder whether the answer is for these "EU" countries to emphasize the "U" to the ver extent of relinquishing their respective sovereignty. Just given this economic situation (which bears striking resemblance to the States following the Revolutionary War), the EU almost reminds me the United States during the Articles of Confederacy. If the European Union is an ideal to be realized, I think the cost thereof has grown increasingly clear.
SO, if Germany is so great of an economy, then perhaps they should demand Germans should be running a LOT more of Europe. They seem to know what they are doing and better educate their people on how to live within their means. Perhaps they need to engage in a process to reeducate other Europeans on how to live within their means. Just think of it, Germany firmly in control of the reigns of power and finances across Europe, working to convert the Europeans over to the Germany way of thinking. Looks like the final winner of WWII will turn out to be Germany. Hitler would be so proud.
The woodwork is indeed EMPTIED OUT this day ! ! !
It is conversations like those in this string that makes me wonder whether or not I got off at the wrong bus stop when I was picking a universe and later a galaxy to inhabit - let alone a solar system ! !
Seems to me Germany could own the rest of Europe by buying its debt. I wonder how that would look. Instead of Germany, France, Hungry, Greece, etc., a future map could just say Germany. No other ordnance necessary, just accountants.
I don't think Germans or French should support failed countries like Greece etc.
I agree...
Just because Germany and France managed to navigate thru these difficult times doesn't mean they will be immune to it in the long term and should protect themselves as well.
It's also time for other countries to aknowledge their issues and come up with a plan to sustain themselves for the long run.
hurray for germany
I feel for Germany in this, being expected to shoulder the burden for the EU. I hope that the other EU nations step up and put some massive assets on the table as well as reforms to make the situation more workable for the German's. Of course the German's did start two world wars so perhaps this is their chance to give something back. I'm hoping that they don't just let it all fall apart.
What a scary bunch of religious nut!
I have a great idea, How about we agree to disagree, and respect each other's religion?
But of course we all know that Buddha is the true one!
lol
i get a kick out of americans ! the average american is struggling and yet you think buffett is wrong to think billionaires should pay more tax, you pay judge judy 37 million ayear? and a forum about european economic woes degenerates into religious dogma ? im canadian and we pay our bills like the germans and banks never fail because they dont lend money to boneheads and we keep our religion to ourselves. and before you critic canada try learning about us
I love maple syrup,
I love Canadian bacon
I love watching a good riot in the streets of Vancouver after losing the Stanley cup.... (GO BRUINS!)
All kidding aside, I go there on vacation often you do have a great country, nice people, clean cities it's always a pleasure going there.
...try putting the maple surup on bacon ` not a lot just a little ~ fablous
But aren't people dying in the streets from untreated maladies, due to their horrendous medical system? Weren't you afraid that as you wandered around, a rogue death squad would confuse you for a sick citizen? At least that's how I picture the country according to Republican estimates of national healthcare.
Me...I just want to work my 45-60 hours a week through the flu and any other ailments I have, use my 5-10 days off per year while paying 25% of my paycheck for insurance premiums for insurance that seems to cover nothing, and retire in 40 years when I am 2 years away from death's door, but wrung out like an old mule.
Who created the person: God/Allah or whatever who created the universe? And what does all this have to do with European economics?
Absolutely nothing, welcome to America!
I hope Germany DOES let Europe as a whole fail!!.Europe like the US has continued to squander money with little regard to paying off their debts. It's like a gambler taking out a marker when he knows he already in the whole. "One winning hand and I can pay back everything" Europe continues to blow sunshine up everyone's backside in hopes that they can make the debt go away with a little sleight-of-hand. The only problem is that they need Germany to bend over in order to make any reasonable attempt to do so. If Germany can stand on it's own ,then so be it....the other countries should take notice of what they did and start planning accordingly
Is this not all just a bit "The-Mouse-That-Roared-esque" ? ? : Germany fought wars of aggression in order to capture Europe - Yet now that The Fatherland HAS indeed gathered much sway over Europe - but peacefully - it simply wants to spit it back out now that the trial run has proved disappointing ! ! !
Of course, peacefully is NOT much in the way of sport, is it ? ? ?
If human beings are a "work in progress", we are making little.
Why would they want the world now? Everyone is bankrupt!
Oops! I meant Europe... why would they want Europe now? It's bankrupt.
If Germany let's Europe fail they would hurt themselves. Currently there is only 2 or 3 countries in Europe that are still somewhat healthy. Only 2 countries started paying back the original bailout packages. But with one currency it would not do for Germany or France to let the rest of the Euro using countries fail.
If they kept the Euro, that would be true. If they switched back to the Deutsch Mark, that concern would no longer be relevant.
Organized religion is the worst thing that ever happened to the planet! It is responsible for more hatred,death,misery,and destruction than all the other reasons combined! Most people believe what their parents taught/forced them to believe. Others cling to their beliefs for comfort that this life isn't all that there is. Simply read all of the anger,hatrd and vitriol spewed above and you'll see that most of these" religious" people don't practice what they preach. The rapid overpopulation of our planet is what will cause it's end not some religious figure.
The only problem I have with most of the religious nuts on here, not to include those of you who aren't trying to shove your beliefs down my throat, is that they are not all members of suicide cults.
Seriously? How did this go from an article about the uncertainty of the EU and Germany's place in it, to religous battles of who's right, who's wrong?? Either way, let me join in.. First, when we look at everything we've learned from Science, it reveals how little we know, but also how people dismiss through either ignorance or whatever what we have learned. Listen, the bottom line is, we don't know.. we may never know.. What we do know is that we may not be unique (life) in this universe, it's a total reality that there may be other life forms out there, maybe now, maybe in the past, maybe in the future, but all things point to this being the case.. Think about all the different forms of life here on Earth, many that we know little about from bioluminesent bacteria that animals have been able to evolve to use to creatures that survive in 400 degree volcanic vents, creatures able to survive subzero temps, even becoming dormant until they are able to become active in suitable environments.. It's crazy, but it all shows that life doesn't always need what we once though it needed to survive based on Earthly observations. This does not mean there is no god, it just highlights that biblical writings really tell stories to create society's that are able to live with each other(most), and then human nature went wrong, and now religion in general may be our downfall.. Everyone believes that to go to heaven or whatever, you have to follow a specific religion, others believe that cleansing the Earth of non-believers(of their rightous religion) is god's work and their responsibility. Policies, laws and societal views are based on these religious views imposing their will on others. I hope we can one day get to the point were we can all believe what we want, respect others in believing differently, and do what we want as long as it doesn't affect others. Either way, if a child molester can repent and go to heaven, but someone who decides to live model life, doing good deeds in the belief that it is whats needed to live harmoniously together with others will go to Hell for not believing in outdated literature, then God needs a reality check... Maybe we do too..
Geez!Way to go,Andrew! A well thought out,interestingly written ,accurate analysis.No name calling,religious zealotry,or disrespectful labeling of other contributors.More power to you and your kind!
Andrew,
Thank you...
I think Germany is Europe. !!!! What's the idiot going about
Just find it funny when someone cracks open the religion bottle everyone starts drinking from it.
"Burneth the golden, gooey, plant. Packeth the pipe full and toketh deep into thy lungs. Then the camel will fit thru the eye of the needle and you will see the end of the rainbow. Brothers and sisters of earth ~ partaketh and mellow out."
.
Book of Peter 25:624
as a world power Germany is at the forefront of many of the fields of industry, as a society we seem to isolating ourselves from europe. does this mean socialism and nationalism? i dont know but we shall see..
Seriously, reading news in the press world wide is pointing to another recession at the least. We are in a Fed made bubble that's been duplicated in every developed country. So wether the Fed prints more money to QE us and push the dollar's value to the bottom, or do what is necessary and let the market correct it's self, we are all in for hard times over the next few years...
You are 100% correct. The recession that any observer can see begining around the world is going to be bone crushing. By the end of 2011 we will be in the midst of something worse than the Great Depression of last century.
This has nothing to do with rapture or chirst coming or any of that stupidity. All the blame for what is coming can be laid at the doors of incompetent governance by self-serving corrupt, petty people who have run the world into the ground while the citizens just dilly dallied and talked about how great they were. Stupid humans.
F italy. How insulting.
Ah, the fruit of socialism......
Is 10 your IQ?
Of course, because socialism has been SO bad for Germany and the Scandinavian countries who sport both longer lives and a higher quality of life than the United States.
The ironic part is that the only reason I didn't move back to Europe after leaving the Army is that I couldn't afford to. Apparently international travel isn't paid for when you separate. I would love nothing more than to get away from you inbred, Tea Bagger hicks who would do the world a favor by killing yourselves.
I forgot to mention stronger economies and lower unemployment in Germany and the Scandinavian countries.
Germans like David Hasselhoff.
After many years of trying, I STILL don't understand their unnatural obsession with him.
Funny, 8 years ago as the EU solidified, enacted rules for continuity among EU nations the fundies were saying, "Tis the sign of a one world gov't. developing the end is near!"
Now they're saying "The EU is falling apart and anarchy reigns tis a sign the end is near!"
Well which is it and where is Jesus? Last I heard he got on a bus and just left Chicago.
thats right i saw him too elvis was carring his bags
Jesus had to get some mountain top real estate to hide in. After all, EVERYONE knows the world ends in December 2012. All of those Mayan calendar nut jobs couldn't be wrong. I mean, who's EVER been wrong about the end of the world? Oh... right.
I thought the EU was like a gang, once you joined you couldn't get out?
That it still kind of true. Germany can't simply quit. Believe me, whether it would be right or wrong doesn't matter. It won't happen.
Real issue is the concentration of wealth in some hands. It should rotate even forcibly else a MESS
What! Does this hint of tea party logic?
The german teutonic mindset is different than the rest of Europe. They aren't really into following the leader and are more isolationist. If people want to understand Germanic thinking, study the history of the country. Lumping them in with france and England as being simply european is an amateur mistake.
VERY INTERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRESTING
we won't pay. and this awful german government wont last forever. but the opposition is the same
****.
people getting angry more and more overhere. because of the undemocratic lobby government. the
firms which just think of there own and the europe disaster in all way. money, people who are not welcome overher, 1 euro jobs etc.
The British have been disadvantaged for a long time by the French-German partnership that led, first to the Common Market and now to the Euro. In the end, Britain's choices may be vindicated.
Oh well, you still got your Britt's-Rebate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_rebate
europa wird genauso wie die usa bald bedeutungslos sein! die chinesen und inder werden uns stürzen!
we have no real democratic governemnts just lobbist for banks and firms. we have many turks which will
take over germany very soon.
but dont mess with the germans. they will take alot but when the feel its enough its to late but unfortunately
people not learning...
Johann ol son, I know english isn't your native tongue, but please take some time to write coherently. Other than that I agree with some of your statements, but Germany has to be careful not to forget some past mistakes and get too big for it's britches. Good luck with getting out your guest workers and keeping your language
There's one main problem with getting Turks out of Germany. No Turks means no Doener. Do NOT screw with my Doener.
On a side note, I really need to google the ascii code for that little o with the dots on top.
I bumped my toe today. Jesus is coming! What other bad stuff happened to people today? It's a sign Jesus is coming! You'd be ignorant to think it's not. I can't type any more than that, though, because I need to go back to dusting all the crucifixes on my walls and talk about how crazy the Muslims are.
germany is not like the rest of europe and makes a mistake in trying to be. The french would sell their mother for a sou if it would mean someone else would do the work and give them the benefit. Germany should go it alone. Drop out of NATO, form defense alliances with the US and England, who genetically and historically have a great deal more in common and let the chips fall where the may. As for Jesus coming- heck I didn't know he was breathing hard. DId Mary Magdalene?
Haha.. and why should they form alliances with incompetent arroant freaks that control America and UK? People who gamble trillions of dollars in the worst investment schemes and illegal wars, have nothing in common with the Post-war Germany which personifies modesty. Germans wisely invested their resources in developing technology while America spent billions on nuclear warheads (and in its typical aggressive hypcricy, oppses Iran and North Korea in similar endeavors)
Actually, Germany is a strong military ally of the United States. Their current forces are designed mainly for peacekeeping and defensive operations, which is why you usually see them deploy to joint areas after infrastructure is already on the ground. They are great people. They just don't have the same ground war capabilities of the US and the UK.
They've been helping in Afghanistan for years now, and are quite good at what they do.The Kiwis and Australians made the best drinking buddies though.
Well how long is Germany going to bail out the rest of the euro zone?
If the countries in trouble get the economic disciple and show progress towards curtailing their spendthrift ways the union may stand, otherwise their bonds will be worthless and a lot of banks and people may loose a lot of money.
The financial wizards have made a miscalculation of expecting Germany to save the euro after all these countries piled up a lot of debt living la dolce vita.
As for England it is on the same path to economic irrelevancy as most of the euro zone countries. They may inflate their way out of their mess, but the PIGS also eventually will do the same when they get their own currency back.
Germany has always tried to dominate Europe. They finally have their big opportunity this time, without guns, just their wealth and economic strength. They practically own Europe anyway.
Well.. sorry to say but they actually created that wealth and economic strength by developing their industries. Berlin suffered one of the worst inflations after the Great War and now commands the solar energy industry all over the world. While America, in its conceit, chooses to wage a trillion dollar war and its hippy allies foolishly join in and now we all pay the price. So Germans are not obligated to give a dime to Europe's corrupt nations like Greece. they have already paid for the WWII damages, changed their education and social system to educate their generations about the collective madness of Naziz.
Jeez.. its narrow minded racists like you that makes the world a disgusting place.
Deutsche Mark uber alles
Genau!
Sorry if I misspelled that. I only speak conversational German in order to communicate with the in-laws. I have never attempted the reading/writing part.
Oh no the 4th Reich damn!
"Germany might *let* Europe fail"? Does anyone else see why al German might have a problem with that statement? Imagine the backlash of nationalism and foreign policy conservatism against a politician that said "The United States might let Canada fail," as if another country is our responsibility. In post-WWII Western Europe, Germany has always been the one country with a sustainable economy, so strong it even endured East-West reunification despite the GDR having been bled dry by Soviet economic incompetence. Every one of its neighbors has insisted on Keyensian fairy-tales ripe with unsustainability and corruption, and Southern Europe would have imploded decades ago if Germany hadn't carried their weight – Northern Europe having massive natural resources to inefficiently squander with very small populations. Yet even with Germany carrying the weight of everyone else, Zakaria's "soft landing" ideas are just pure fantasy. The ineffiency of economic systems like those of Greece/Italy/Portugal/Ireland is hopeless, it can only be purged with massive political shifts that require an economically desperate population – not accomplished through foreign bailouts. However, it seems the Germans are finally fed up with working to support spoiled Greek and Italian bureaucrats driving their work-issued cars to the beach, and Germany forcing the people in those countries take responsibility for the incompetence of their governments is long overdue. Merkel would be well-advised to move further toward austerity, we've all seen what happens when Germany elects nationalist politicians into power – not something anyone wants to see repeated.
Perhaps countries such as Greece/Portugal/Spain were not meant to have their most optimal socio-economic operandi under those systems. Your argument is flawed because it presupposes a basic fallacy – that free markets/capitalism/credit-based economies are the best possible system for EVERYONE, regardless of culture, tradition and the historical narrative. Hence, you view them as being thoroughly "defunct" and in need of "purges" in order to set them "right." Have you ever thought of a possibility that, perhaps, Latin America, for eg., would be better off under a socialist system, because it may be THEIR most optimal system? Do you think that resorting to mass-murder and dictatorships in order to "instill" a set of socio-economic values could, maybe, mean that a given country/people were not meant to live in that system?
I can see why ppl are fed up with paying for others that want earlier pensions and don't want to produce as much during their lifetime....the balance is not there!
Why do we find ourselves in this situation?
Germany is the last fiscally responsible nation on earth. They hate debt. This revulsion was pounded into them after WWI. They have a congenital fear of borrowing money. Therefore their personal debt is ridiculously low and their personal savings is ridiculously high, by the rest of the world's standards. The rest of the world is inhabited by spendthrifts, moneychangers, and financial engineers. This is why Germany finds itself in this position. If I were Merkel, I would say, "let the rest of the m****rf****rs burn". But I'm pretty sure Merkel will not have more cajones than Obama, so Germany will get sucked down the drain with the rest of them.
Can't say that I blame the Germans for not wanting to bail out financially irresponsible neighbors.
The successful are always expected to support the failures... And it is a vicious cycle that will never end.
The best part is that the German people had no say in this mess. They are about the only European country that switched to the Euro without a public vote, despite an overwhelming majority of its citizens opposing the move.
Germany has already seen what happens when they have to support failed neighbors. Although the former East Germans are not at fault, many in the West German states still harbor resentment about having to fund the other half's pensions and government benefits. Why WOULD they want to do the same for the rest of Europe?
I agree with the article, that Germany might decide to pull the plug and disconnect, not wanting to finance other unsuccessful countries. But if the German leaders read the signs well they will not do so, even if they have to struggle politically at home. Today no country, not even the strongest ones can survive in isolation, and while the European Union is suffering at the moment still this is the only viable option for all countries involved. First all the nations need to understand their mutual responsibilities towards each other, and see that if they do not put the maximum effort in they are capable of, they would cause the collapse of the union that would affect all of them equally. So the strong countries cannot dictate just the way they like it, and the weaker countries cannot just hope they can piggyback on the bigger ones. We exist in one interdependent system now, we have to behave according to the laws of an integral network. And this is true not only for Europe, but to the whole planet.
Well said Zsolt, I totally agree with your comment. All nations should start working together for the most beneficial outcome for all, or they will all collapse in the end. United we stand, divided we fall has to become a global slogan.
I agree. Its more than just bailouts. Its about mutual responsibility. Not only that a stronger country should help the weaker, but that the weaker receive only what they need, and agree to the same premise – they must help others where it is needed. Only if we all start assisting each other can we climb out of this mess.
DEUTSCHLAND UBER ALLES
Das war nich erlaubt in der schule! Uberhaubt nicht!
Halte fresse. Deine mutter ist eine schlampe, Herr Fuehrer... er GER987654.
im a canadian of german/english extraction, ive got a relative from england here now and 4 relatives from germany just went home a few weeks ago so im aware of the european situation. hardwork ,financial responsibility are northern european traits "protestant work ethic" its driving my relatives crazy from both sides the amount of people coming into both countries and going on the dole. there getting pretty tired of bailing out the partiers from the suntan nations
Interestingly, Germany's most prosperous states in the south (Bavaria and Baden-Wuerttemberg) are mainly catholic (that much about "protestant work ethics").
But as I mentioned earlier, religion is a lot less important in Germany than it apparently is in the US. Just go to any church in Germany on a random Sunday. You will be surprised how empty it really is. You will probably find more people in the beergarden next door.
We didn't like the bailouts once. Why do we expect the Germans to like bailouts repeatedly? I see their point.
Exactly, there is no need for the Germans to have to rescue half of Europe. Let them fall and restructure.
How come the so called visionaries who envisioned free trade , global markets etc.. did'nt seem doom which came faster than ever perceived. Is it a lack of true vision of prosperity or were they trying to create an unsustainable political stunt of those times. At the end of the day, the brunt of all debt , downfall, financial disasters will be borne by the common man who strives for a square meal
Based upon the population of the earth and unprecedented growth rate...I give it no more than 30 years before we see the biggest, ugliest World War ever. The earth can sustain only so many of us. Human nature will settle the matter. Good Luck!
I wonder how you know all these things. Do you speak to "the Europeans" and "the Germans"? Who are they exactly?
Who you talkin' to?
Judging by the rest of the thread, I bet it's Jesus.
When and where in this article talks religion? Economies go through cycle. Apparently, when times are bad, the religious fanatics scream. Good economic times, no one is really screaming...
This is the only thing he's ever written that I agree with.
The analysis of Fareed Zakaria makes sense and i think he is perfectly right on the fact that the debt of EU members should be centralized, exactly as it is done in the US. With EU balancing their budgets every year, they will probably be better off and they will avoid to be in the situation they are currently experiencing. The federalization is one of the corner stone of the US and the EU should take advantage of the US experience in that matter, though it will be really tough to achieve considering the cultural differences among the members. That's actually one of the serious limitations of the EU development. Let see what will be the outcome of the actual crisis; it will probably tell us a lot about the its future.
I totally agree with your point of view, the EU should follow the same path; but it's going to be tough because of the cultural barrier which could prevent the integration. Good point.
I agree with Fareed Zakaria in the sense that Europe's days are numbered. I do not believe however that they should centralize the debt. For one, it's just downright unfair for the Germans to have to carry the EU and the Euro. The Greeks are defaulting, this is not the problem of the Germans. I expect to see the Deutshmark return in the next 2-5 years. It may have taken 60 years but Germany is back as a world power because they are savers. They save their money and rarely buy on credit. Something Americans and other nations around the world should look at doing! Anyway, you may all see me as some crazy college kid but the signs are strikingly obvious. Europe won't have the Euro in 5 years.
I hope you're right. That nearly 3-to-1 exchange rate was awesome.
Must have been awesome! I was still too young to understand the world when the Deutschmark was in place but damn 3-1 sounds so nice.
I think that the EU should offer Germany a deal. Give them back what was taken in WWI. Namely Danzig and the Sudatenland. Poland and Russia can keep Prussia. They were too overbearing anyway. Spit and polish about absolutely EVERYTHING. Very annoying. Just hand over everything else. PLEASE. And Germany will save Europe!! For real!
Seriously... religious freaks...wake up...there is no god. Nor any room in a modern intellectual world for this nonsensical mysticism.
I hope the Europeans work this out and remain commited to helping one another. Otherwise they will become more like the US i.e. fractured socially and politically.
Christ is never coming, get over it.
Christ is already here awaiting resurrection -
Matthew 28:20 I am with you always
Europe is not going to fail. Of course, the Italians Spaniards etc are now owned by the Germans ... like, they won the war he he ... but they can only blames themselves. There is a very good outcome of the current crisis, the central bank of the EU will be now and for ever managed by the Germans and will have actual acting power to manage the repossessed economies (PIGS that is), so that idiots like Berlusconi will no longer be able to screw it up This is good news, because this means that Europe will have a future of solid economies.
So Germany finally conquers Europe without firing a single shot! Germans know about inflation (Weimar Republic), thats why not QE there and they have real growth.
4th Reich. Well Played Germany.
Germany needs Lebensraum!
This news about Germany is not surprising at all. Why should a successful country like Germany pump billions of its hard earned Euro into the sink hole called the EU, when other members such as Greece, Italy, Spain, Ireland, etc. keep promising reforms but do little. These countries are fast becoming the welfare states if they don't clean up their own houses fast...
Germany is looking for a sustained peace in Europe and perhaps a means to repents it previouos crimes. It should be taking a leadership role in financing a better Europe. – It is is morally obliged.
The people responsible for those crimes are long gone. "The sins of the father?"
Using your logic, we should be responsible for the slavery championed by our forefathers.
Why would Germany really care about Europe. Because of the E.U.? The E.U. was a bad move, and I called it when it was being formed. Just another welfare organization. Germany should look out for their own interests, as they are obligated to NO ONE but themselves. This is why a North American Union will never happen, because Americans would engange in combat and riots in the street first.
@FrmCdn,
Please stop arguing with "former Jehovah's Witnesses". It is a waste of time. If they are former JW and actively speak against the organization, it means that they did not want to live up to Bible standards and teachings and were removed from the congregation. This is a Biblical practice, and the Bible commands not to even say a greeting to such ones. You will notice that their sole purpose is to tear down the work of JW, never providing a better understanding of the Bible, or a positive encouraging hope for the future. Everything they say is motivated by bitterness and hatred and they have no real interest in getting to know Jehovah or to obey His commands. Keep studying the Bibles, make sure that what is taught is based on Bible principles, and save your 'pearls' for those who are humble and meek. Cheers
JW another child molesting cult preaching every one else is evil, but dont worry we know whats right. they are outlawed in some countries for the freaks they are.
Just like the US has had enough of Obama, Merkel has had enough of European states that don't get their house in order.
Eventually your going to have a country that has it finances in better order go back to it's old currency. Problem with that is as soon as it gets mentioned it will plunge the Euro down in value and make matters worse.
Who needs ze army ven ve can crush dem vit our economy?!
"The Germans, 60-years after World War II, are understandably becoming a more normal country. They are deeply, purely European but they are not going to pursue Europe’s interests at the expense of their own".
NOR SHOULD THEY!
A man stepping on a Banana is OBAMA & Banana is American People.
Well, Americans certainly are bananas...
I don't know if the world is going to end soon or not, but after reading through this thread I'm really hoping it does.
Well Said
Cant wait till the all go to "the place" and play with Jesus. Since I am not a believer and will be barred from entry, I am gone hang around here. Then serious people can start solving the worlds problems.... I sure hope he comes and takes you all far far away
It's amazing how no one sees the difference in culture as the real reason Europe sucks and Germany rocks. Europe= lazy to the point of sickness, Germany=driven, ambitious. I was in Europe December of 06 and there wasn't anything open for coffee or breakfast before 8:30AM. Ridiculous. Plus, they let in all the foreigners who are now destroying their countries. Last year France, this year England, which one next?
Exactly right. Go to some of these financially troubled countries and see how they operate on a day to day basis. I was once in Greece on a vacation to Turkey. I took a ferry ship over to a Greek island. We happened to be there during lunch. I walked into a restaurant that had doors open and saw the waiter asleep. I tapped him on the shoulder and asked if he could show us a menu. He said one word, siesta and then fell promptly back to sleep. That about summed it up for the country of Greece for me. I took the next boat back to Turkey and never wanted to come back to Greece. Expensive and basically unresponsive, not wanting to make any money during siesta and I truly believe the whole country is under Siesta most of the time causing their demise. Germany on the other hand is a robust country where you can get service most of the time and are usually willing to work hard. Customer service is not their strong point but they are punctual and hard working.
The rest of the world will carried on before without Europe and America and will do so again. Looks like the white man's systems are failing. Jesus will come. Sure. Because there's another b!tch out there waiting to lie to her parents that she didn't sleep with anyone but is going to have a god child.
Actually Jesus wants to come for rescue BUT He is detained by JEWS.
How the h%$# did an article on German financial interests devolve into a discussion on Jehovah's WItnesses? Are you folks all bananas?
And that is why the banana in the picture.
All religions in the world were conceived in good faith but twisted by evil to control men and women by those who had the most to gain by doing so in the form of money and power. Now I'm not saying that nothing good can be learned from these religious texts as they do have some positive aspects; the problem is those in power use these in an manor simply to gain wealth and control those who find it easier to have someone else think for them and then simply repeat what they are programmed to do so. There very well is a struggle on this planet between good and evil whether or not its between two deities created by man and shaped in his image I know not. But I do know that the all men instinctively know the difference between the paths before them and it's our free will that decides our fate. Unfortunately those of an evil disposition control our world now and they have corrupted humankind so much that I'm not sure it's possible for the sheep to wake up before we destroy ourselves. The arguing on this very message board is all in line with the way we're controlled 'divide and conquer' but the division is easy when men divide themselves on baseless grounds and deceitful truths about each other. A great man once wrote "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." or as it's stated in it's most common form "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
Oh and Zombie Nixon 2012!!!! for pres
Oh where oh where did religion come into this? Render to Ceasar what is Ceasar's and to God what is God's, and I'm pretty certain that economics fall in Caesar's realm. As far as the militant atheist league is concerned suffice it to say that I think you badly misunderstand both people of faith and human beings generally.
That said, I think that we're facing an economic varient of what happened in 1914 in Europe. It will not, of course, be nearly as destructive...but it will likely end or at least greatly modify the European project. Then of course, a string of alliances sent war from one country to another. Now economic distress will jump from country to country.
I do not understand why Greece was bailed out to the extent it was bailed out on. There is a historical precedent. JP Morgan in 1907 allowed the first bank to fail, and, once the others were sufficiently terrified and motivated to clean up their act, bailed out the rest. Why was this not done? Instead the proverbial farm has been bet on Greece, and it is increasingly apparent that Greece will fail, and neither Germany nor France will be able to bail Greece out successfully. When that happens, there is every chance of a panicked atmosphere in which the contagion spreads from Greece to Portugal, Italy, Spain, and Ireland. France and Germany will then have some very difficult decisions to make.
Zakaria brilliantly analyzes why Germany will not step up to bat this time...and then there seem only two possibilities. Either the Eurozone shrinks to a Franco-German core with much of East Europe thrown in, or it ends entirely., I think a contraction of the Eurozone is more likely personally, but it will still be enough to force us into a double dip. At this point reform of the pension system and health care systems becomes even more critical.
I think that Germany may have the right idea here...a cooperation between non-profits and government (including the religious organizations) would probably be enough to save the situation. In all this, I think Germany would prove a better model than France or the UK...and I think the general credit status of these big three illustrates why. Simply put, the government is good at raising funds, but horrible (due to the layers of government officials that have to be paid) at dispensing them. An act that would allow for grants of funds to these organizations so long as they meet certain objective criteria would save money and make the system more flexible. The Catholic social justice principle of subsidiary would also be helpful...why send money to a centralized government to deal with local problems? Keep it local and private to the greatest degree possible.
I'll bet Germany's new stance is giving the Bilderberg group hives!!!
Are there a bunch of insane people on this thread? How did religion even get involved? Of course Germany is not going to bail out the rest of Europe. Why should they?
After living there for over twenty years it is easy to understand that the Germans have long been waiting for the promises of prosperity from a European Union promised by Kohl. Germany has paid dearly to support Europe and a Union that has spent trillions of euros and never been audited or produced a budget. The people are tired of unknowns spending their tax money to support welfare states and policies that run contrary to their interest.
We should take a lead from them and stop our unbridled expenditures of Blood and Money around the world. Of course this would take a Congress that was responsive to the people instead of Oil Companies and war profiteers. Sadly, we appear to be a long way from that.
well said and sadly very true....
Because no one likes to write checks.
...lookin' for my can of Jesus-Be-Gone.
The problem is that different regional/ethnic/racial/religious groups developed apart from each other for thousands of years...only recently have they come in contact with each other. The presumption that free markets/capitalism is the end-all/be-all of all socio-economic systems because it "defeated" communism (rather odd considering that China owns 10% of the U.S. national debt while it runs surpluses regularly!). Greeks, for example, have a more traditional/communal view of the state and its role, so they'll, naturally, take to the streets when Grandma-the-Pensioner (with literally no debt or mortgages) has her social pension reduced from $60,000/year to $55,000 (equivalent). Americans, on the other hand, will keep screaming "God Bless America!" and "Greatest Country in the world! yeeehhhaaa!" as millions lose their jobs, have their houses foreclosed, and have to resort all kinds of vices to survive! The idea that we can peg everyone into a round hole, when there are many inherent squares out there, is insane. Socialism/Communism would destroy the U.S. and Germany, but it may actually be the most optimal system for many Latin American countries. That's just the way it is.
How about Germany for Germans, England for the English, France for the French and America for Americans instead of unsupportable hordes of starving, ignorant, unskilled, uneducated refugees and their thirteen children. Just sayin'.
>>Eric the Red
How about Germany for Germans, England for the English, France for the French and America for Americans instead of unsupportable hordes of starving, ignorant, unskilled, uneducated refugees and their thirteen children. Just sayin'.
What kind of people do you think settled all those countries to begin with? To the Romans, Germans were barbarians. Who is a traditional "English" person? Is he or she a Celt? A Norman? A Dane? A Fleming? A Huguenot? Likely they are a mix of all those people. There are people who came from Bangladesh who are now proud to call themselves English.
New Jersey should be expelled from the USA and then attacked without mercy...till everyone in that hole is naught but an unpleasent memory....and then finally the smell will go away....with some huge amounts of Lysol of course..
Poland will be first. Wait didn't we do that already? Oh well we hate to learn anything so let history repeat itself.
And Germany should given its treatment by other Europeans after WWI. I wonder why other nations, principally the US, had such economic problems and massive financial fraud, yet Germany didn't? Hmmm, matter of post war demographics?
This is grotesque!
Sell France to Germany over a period of a fifty years....deport the French to the other nations over said years while the new German owners move in to replace them....Germany gets the low countries they always wanted and the European Union is saved.....thinking the French should be moved mostly to Greece, Spain and Italy seeing as their economies are the most in debt....and for those asking why not give one or all of those countries to Germany...simple they don't border Germany and are not as desired as France...buyer chooses...
The German people are well represented by Angela Merkel in this instance (I am no blanket fan of Merkel). The reality is simply that the Germans cannot and should not carry the debt of Europe on their backs. Incredible that the nations that have far less productive cultures and insanely generous (unsustainable) pensions should think otherwise. The liberal "free lunch" syndrome is alive and well in Europe as it is here the United States. The Euro is doomed and was ill conceived. There are far too many takers and not enough producers to carry the weight. The countries that demand the bail outs remind me of the liberal democrats in the US. They spend other peoples money and are indignant when asked to be accountable. The Germans are highly productive and efficient people. They also have fish-hooks in their pockets when it comes to paying. This situation is the perfect storm. They have money, they have earned it honestly and they sure are not going to waste it by paying for the Greeks to retire in their fifties. Nor should they.
>>>
This is the most concise and cogent explanation on this post.
Now here's a thought...modern Germany has conquered more of Europe with the Euro, than the Third Reich did.
As long as governments keep bailing out investors who are betting other's people money we will have these problems. They bet on risky investments and when they loose they cry and demand to be paid. Governments may be chosen by people but they are owned by banks, corporations and special interests.
Europe is history. Its real future are third world children being born
right now in the free housing provided in britain, france, sweden and italy.
In fact, you can actually visit exactly such 3-rd world europe – go to Portugal, Corsica, Naples, burning/burnt London neighborhoods, turkish-speaking germany etcetera, etcetera.
The future is now, and it is NOT european.
I know how Germany feels. US taxpayers have been bailing out banks, insurance companies and auto mfers who could not keep their house in order or simply cheated the system. The US Govt has instilled fear into the populace claiming that if we did not do so, "it" would all unravel and we'd have a "catastrophe." What a crock of BS!
If Germany felt confident that the other states of Europe truly could pay back their debts as quickly as the banks, automakers, etc have paid back the US government, they'd bail them out in a second.
This is a matter of survivorship, in the Time of Global Economic Downturn.
Best thing for everyone is to go bankrupt, clear the debts and start fresh rather than accepting more loans to end up putting the countries behind for decades to come and having our grand kids and great grand kids have to pay for our over indulgence
why are them nazis indulging in Jew tactics?
who are we to judge Europe?
Deutschland uber allles !
BLUHE DEUTCHES VATERLAND!
Europe has always shat on Germany and now look at them...begging for help. You made your bed Europe...time to sleep in it!
Germany should let them fail. The whole thing was a puppet show set up on Germany;s back,
It's always the end times. The world is always going to end. Every time some idiot takes his head out of his a$$ & sees something different, the cry goes out – THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END!!! The religious nut jobs start preaching up a storm & the lemmings follow them right over the edge of the proverbial cliff. And then the scammers go into high gear selling survival kits, water purifiers, guns & ammo. Ah, don't you just love it?
The European nation will not cleave one to another for the simple reason; they differ in culture.
Nevertheless, all nations need to unite our monetary order to avoid a devastating disaster to the entire human race.
http://theworldmonetaryordertocome.blogspot.com/2010/11/introduction.html
See what happens when you mix politics and policy. German electorate is angry.
Is called socialism.
Just like the soviet union fell, it too, must fall.
Socialism is bad because it makes you the economic powerhouse that support the poor policies of an entire continent in addition to granting incredible benefits to your own citizens?
Sounds pretty terrible to me. I sure hope the US never adopts any of the systems that lead to such prosperity...
"its not so much that backwards ideologies turn to more enlightened ways.....it's simply that that the people who hold these ideas end up dying off"
Is sac newton.
... completely ignoring the enduring appeal of organized religion...
Let's hope that Merkel knows what's she's doing. Germany is extraordinary since, despite its lack of natural resources, it rose from the ashes at least 3 times during the last century (WWI, WWII, and the Russian occupation). I couldn't blame its citizens for saying no to bailing out other countries that were run much less effectively.
The ILLUMINATION OF
CONSCIENCE predicted by Our Lady in Garabandal in 1961 will take place soon to
save the world.
The Warning is taking place to:
1. Prove to all that God exists.
2 Bring everyone to Jesus and the Way of Truth.
3. To help save us before the final day of judgement by giving us a chance to ask for
forgiveness for the sins we have committed.
What will Happen?
TWO COMETS WILL
COLLIDE IN THE SKY.
The sky will turn red, it will look like fire & then you will see a large cross in the sky to
prepare you.
Everyone over the age of 7 will experience a mystical encounter with Jesus Christ which will last
anything up to 15 minutes.
Pray this prayer to be prepared: Oh my precious Jesus,embrace me in your arms and allow my head to rest upon your shoulders so that you can raise me up to your glorious kingdom when the time is right. Allow your precious blood to flow over my heart that we can be united as one.
An economic article turns into a jesus-freak forum. Sigh.
Germany is now ruled by the first generation that does not remember the War. They are no longer fearful of the stigma carried by their parents over the war. They are not afraid to complain about the devastation to their cities and the immense loss of civilian life resulting from American and British Bombings. They are not about to sacrifice their way of life or financial gains to save what they consider to be societies that culturally have run themselves into financial bankruptcy. The dream of Karl Der Grosse of a unified Europe will not survive this crisis.
"He died"
aaah...the old German banana peel trick....the oldest trick in the book.
Can Germany print Euro and lend them to Greece to avoid default? The situation here is different, Washington can print more money to avoid default.
I think Germany has benefited greatly from having a common currency with its main trading partners in Europe. Since the earlier 90s when the first moves toward a common currency began, Germany has had a continuous trade surplus, allowing it to keep more of its people employed and gain financial leverage and influence within Europe. If its trading partners had kept their relatively weaker currencies, German products would have been more expensive in places like Greece, Portugal, Italy, and Spain and German exports would be much lower. German reluctance to back the debt of these other countries is shortsighted. If the Eurozone dissolves, German unemployment will go up.
The EU is the #1 economy in the World. The largest trading block, with more than 500 million consumers, almost twice as large as the US. China has a billion people, but they only make about $800 a year, but they are growing. The largest trading block of middle class consumers will dominate the World economy, as the EU does now. If the EU is gone, there's really not much left of Europe, it can't compete on the World market. Many wish the EU was gone, don't even acknowledge that it's the largest economy. The EU could make huge mistakes, have huge setbacks, and still emerge as the World's #1 economy. If the EU is gone, that leaves China and the US, and China is already predicted to be the #1 economy, maybe sooner than later, given all the mistakes the EU has made, and the US. With the US in deep recession, the EU gone, that leaves just China, with authoritarian capitalism, democratic capitalism, as practiced in the US and EU, would be almost gone, a victim of right wing economic practices. What makes German strong is that they still have a manufacturing base, people still make money there, from work, not just with paper, they have unions, they have a middle class. Workers there generally make more than American workers. What's needed is to follow Germany example and make more middle class consumers, not destroy your middle class. Those Nations without a substancial middle class is the ones that are in deep trouble.
This is all a fading dream. We have been living on the legacy of a productive tradition that has finally topped out and now is going down. If things are taken into consideration now, the process could be reversed. More that likely it will not.
Definition of anti Christ accordance to the bible. Anyone who does not believe Jesus Christ has risen from the dead. This is the view of the Jehovah Witness.The Pharisee's did believe in GOD, and also crucifixed the Christ, Jehovah witness is a modern day Pharisee.
Germany has already bailed somebody out once and suffered the dilution of its economy. That "somebody" was: East Germany.
I highly doubt that Germans (specifically, those living in what used to be West Germany) are willing to do that again. West Germany was highly prosperous before 1991. After re-unification, taxes went up substantially for West Germans, as their economy was used to help rebuild East Germany. Not to mention the million or so unemployed East Germans who flooded West German towns and cities looking for work.
They were not happy about helping out even fellow Germans.
So you can imagine how they would feel about suffering even further dilution of their economy to help out the Greeks, the Italians, and the French.
I remember saying to several people about a year ago that germany could possibly cause WW3 without firing a shot. If they declare that they leaving the EU and going back to the deutchse mark it would cause turmoil in world markets. What would the ripple effect be? I would like to hear anyone's opinions or insights.
I do not blame Germany. They did the right thing and were fiscally responsible. They have absolutely no obligation to Greece or the others. I wonder...can we do that with California?
Nope, the Becham's live there...............
Germany will finally accomplish in five years,what two World Wars failed to do,the conquest of Europa! And forget China
and India the problems their societies will have for the next two generations I wouldn't wish on Stalin.
thats what happens when u let jews control global economies. nothing will ever get better as long as they run the system
The glorious fatherland has prevailed.
Germany more than any country in the world has experienced bankruptcy, and inflation, caused by printing money to pay debts after WW1. Germany's post war economic collapse lead to Hitler, and WW2. Germany does not have the capital to fix her neighbors negative cash flow. Only Greece, or Ireland, or France, etc., can solve their own economic problems by drastically reducing government spending, and cutting taxes, and reducing regulations on business. Big spending governments do not need more loans when they are unable the repay what they owe now. Big spending governments must stop spending. Germany would only be hastening her own economic demise.
What do you want that Germany give all its assets and its blood and become wake as the others that expend the money as millonaires.
Europeans are are all in favor of increased taxes, just as long as Germany pays them.
the world economy went to heck because Nixon didnt want to pay our debts with real money and closed the gold window. oh yeah thanks for making China our economic rival too all goes to Tricky
Well, hope the value of the Euro goes down. I really would like to save money next year when I go to Europe.
The EU is a bad system and should be done away with – each country for itself – away with globalization !
Isolation won't solve anything in the long run and such action by Germany would only come back to bight them in a number of other ways. Just think if the situation were then reversed in the near future. Then others would be reluctant to help Germany.
The point is that these economic crisis affect everyone to some degree. So only by all nations coming together as one will there ever be a lasting solution. Otherwise the idea of kicking the can down the road will continue indefinately. One nation will continue seeking to exploit all the others and economic imbalence will perpetuate on and on.
Fourth Reich Fighting Men
Here's why Germany should do what the U.S. did directly after WWII – because the world needs it.
The U.S. invested heavily in all factions of the rebuilding of Europe after the second world war – all while there was so much rebuilding needed here. Hence, the greatest generation.
Germany clearly is a nation of thinkers, innovators, futurists, etc.. But are they humanists? Can they come back as the good guy nation after creating damage over fifty years ago that rocked all of Europe and the world? Long time ago? Not long enough. If Germany can make good decisions now then they will be regarded as the savior of Europe rather than the shadow that has been left by the first two world wars.
Nope. Germany will be the bad guy whatever they do. If they don't bail out, they will be called selfish, if they do bail out they will be called stupid. No way to do it right.
What's happened to common sense? Germans understand austerity and it's time for all countries to start living within their means. If I've got $10 in my pocket I shouldn't be able to spend $20 and figure out how to pay for it later, I should spend $5 and save the other $5 for a rainy day. Thanks mom and dad for teaching me that difficult lesson.
The whole problem with all these comments is my case in point here... When will people leave friggin Religeon out of things that it does not belong. I can think of only 2 wars that didnt revolve around Religeon! Do you really think that any of this can or should be resolved around some invisible all knowing, all seeing dude in the sky that is coming back? I mean what is he, she, it coming back for? What possibly does our mortality have that would be so valuable to such a belief? Sheeesh... dont spend more than you have and there wont be financial ruin!
Is Germany any different from the rest of the world? The Germans want the benefit of the Euro – a lower currency exchange rate for the Euro vs the stand alone Mark but do not wish to pay for it by financially supporting the Euro as a true European currency. Sounds like the rest of the world. Give me my benefits and let someone else pay for it.
Except that Germany has been the guy who pays all the time.
Germany has allways ben the scapegoat for the western world . The 1st world war , a most ridiculus reason. The tready of Versailles without german representation and the invitation of the (schikelgruber) and the american financed 2nd world war. The 1ist by the Rothchilds. America fell asleep wilth its victory hangover till after1970 while the other manufacturing nations were running all over U.S. With the American infighting with its raciall and ethnic differences and the blame upon the white evil man it cannot survive an will crumble into different states of the mentioned factor.
Yea beacause if that were going to happen it surely would be now rather than say, the Civil war, or the Great depression, or the Revolutionary war, or the Dust bowl. We really don't have a history of overcoming adversity so your probably right.
I wonder what Iran will do with all of the Euro oil money they have made after demanding they be payed in it rather than the Dollar. HAHA serves them right I hope they go bankrupt
Religion and Political power are the same thing ... a relatively small group of people want to control a larger group of people. The only thing redeeming about organized religion is a sense of community – the rest is bull ... be suspect of ANY group that does not welcome free thought and questions. Both organized religion AND government should be smaller ... only then can individuals truly care about one another. Church picnic with 100 people .... nice and happy, thousands of Christians all across Europe with one goal to thwart other ideas ..... Crusades! (and all your other religious nuts on here dont get excited about the Christian bashing ... you are all sheep too!) Keep is small and local people, care about your neighbor ... and if your neighbor feels better believing in fairy tales about God, or Allah, or Jehovah, or Vishnu, or any number of others, let him!
I remember Euro countries pricing goods and services in their home currency and the Euro for a few years before releasing the hard currency in order to prepare everyone for the change over and to stabilize prices. What is the plan if Germany, Greece, or some other member leaves the union? There is no plan for an overnight currency changeover. It will be a more severe impact than Lehman if the Euro fails.
bez ogródek, iż w ostatnim czasie. Dostajemy po tyłku w każdej ważniejszej dyscyplinie i nie jest ważne czy gramy w nożną, siatkówkę lub basketa we wszystkim gonimy ogony i nie możemy w stanie odnieść żadnych znaczących sukcesów, Jest to dołujące i mam już tego dosyć. Brakuje mi aktualnie wielkich nazwisk i postaci w naszym sporcie. Ciekawe kiedy to się zmieni. Przepraszam pesymistyczny, jestem nader niepocieszony. w tej dekadzie.
Thanks for taking this opportunity to discuss this, I feel fervently about this and I like learning about this subject. Thanks for sharing this valuable post....
Prophecy
Wow, it's such a serious subject but it's all turned into a religious / anti-religion hate volley. Pay attention to what is happening in Europe people. It is critical to the U.S. to learn from the mistakes.
J2P brings up great points. To add, the impact will ripple through the globe and it will impact us all. I'm no 2012 fearmonger but I am, more than ever, concerned about economic disaster caused by the implosion of the dollar and/or Euro. Stock up with canned food and water at the minimum. Think about what could potentially happen to supply lines for basic essentials.
Take care of yourselves and don't rely on the state. It may save you one day.
Who cares? America is under economic attack by China, and we sit around wondering about the EU?
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