Editor's Note: Barak Barfi is a research fellow with the New America Foundation.
By Barak Barfi – Special to CNN's Global Public Square
Throughout the Libyan capital of Tripoli, rebel units have taken over schools, warehouses and factories. They drive around town in pick-up trucks laden with anti-aircraft guns and anti-tank missiles. Tripoli residents honk and flash the victory sign as they fly down coastal roads. But though they are eager to welcome them as liberators today, people here are sure to turn on them if the troops remain holed up in the capital. With the war against the country’s deposed leader Moammar Gadhafi coming to an end, these units will have to be disbanded and sent home.
The rebels' political leaders, known as the National Transitional Council (NTC), have said that the units will be merged into the national army. But these predictions have failed to come true in other areas the council has controlled for months. In eastern Libya, the NTC never imposed its discipline on units. Instead, brigades worked largely independently of the political body and rarely coordinated their movements with the leadership. On a recent visit to Brega after rebels captured the city from Gadhafi’s soldiers, fighters related to this writer how no less than five different brigades took the town. But none mentioned the national army the NTC has boasted of.
Though the problems of the brigades are sure to become more pronounced over time, the threat they pose should not be exaggerated. They are not militias in the hands of rival politicians. Instead, they are units divide according to geographic regions. And their commanders are not yet powerful enough to turn them into guns for hire. But the longer the NTC dithers in disbanding them and sending them back to their towns and villages, the greater the chance that the units will be transformed into more than a fighting force created to bring down Gadhafi.
As grievances in society mount owing to the breakdown in services, frustrations with the countries new leaders and lack of security, so too will the allure of armed gunmen. Men who were partially or menially employed will find the call to take up arms again appealing.
With the fall of Gadhafi, Libya is entering a new era that holds promise for all. But the first step in building a new country is to take the weapons off the street and return the anti-aircraft gunners to their jobs as mechanics and pharmacists.
The views expressed in this article are solely those of Barak Barfi.
© 2011 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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It appears to be high time for NATO to get rid of the self-styled "liberators" and begin their occupation of Libya in earnest! The right-wing thugs in Washington along with their cohorts in Europe couldn't be any happier!!!
Your obsessions and paranoia are out of place in a serious forum. Either post the evidence for your claims or stick with whatever fanatical group you belong to and discus your fantasies among yourselves.
Anyone suggesting that a state sponsored rebellion be broken up before the mission is accomplished is suffering from mental issues!
@Isolate, don't be harsh on onesmallvoice. He must have had a tough time during the McCarthy era, hence he's so bitter towards right-wingism.
I understand the appeal of carrying weapons, especially for those "partially or menially employed". Seven months ago it was highly impossible. In the mean time the intrepid rebels have learned the advantage of arming themselves – to achieve their goals.
Cameron and Hague must be disappointed. The TNC refused to have the Lockerbie bomer extradited to Britain. Its argument was, al Megrahi had already been judged and would not be judged again. Libya doesn't hand over its citizens to foreign authorities. Gaddafi did it, but not the new government now!
If right wing thugs in Washington weren't secretly getting ready to take over Libya, would I be wearing a hat lined with aluminum foil in my mom's basement? NO! There's your evidence.
Libya, at its peak, supplied 1.7-2.0% of the world's oil. Getting their production back to full steam with drop gas prices by <$.12. The drop in crude oil prices will hurt the oil exporting Arab states, who voted to support the NATO action. Hardly the recipe for a conspiracy.
If Americans checked tire pressure regularly, it would cut 3% of US consumption. A PSA campaign to get people to check tire pressure would have more effect on global oil prices than the NATO action in Libya and for far less cost.
But hey, if the facts don't fit the conspiracy, build a bigger conspiracy.
Sadly Onesmallvoice is correct and you sir are wrong its not fantasies its the reality as for proof hmm why dont you google them yourself BIG Mouth.
If you want to make wild accusations then the burden of proof is on you.
Like isolate said. Put up or shut up.
Western oil companies were doing excellent business with Qaddafi; nothing would have been easier – or more profitable – than to help him crush the rebels and restore the autocratic stability so beneficial to the plunder of natural resources.
But, believe it or not, not everything is about the $$$.
Gadhafi was talking about giving contracts to China and Russia and *gasp* selling oil off the dollar standard. So the imperialist forces had to depose him.
StudentofNature, you need to do more research if you honestly believe the powers to be in this world did not have a reason to get rid of him.
No, it was all over for Gadhaffi the minute he started firing on peaceful protesters. Europe was more than happy to look the other way and buy their oil from them prior to that.
Sorry conspiracy theorists, the Arab spring is NOT a myth fostered by paid CIA employees.
@ Jackson
Sorry conspiracy theorists, the Arab spring is NOT a myth fostered by paid CIA employees. for an idiot like yourself Jackson you sure trust the mainstream for news they come up with let it be either overhyping of the storm or the Fakery in libya with the news the Arab spring is a manufactured revolution to install or rather in libyas case bring back The pro western kingdom of libya,
King Idrs was an american puppet government just like the EU Union acts now a puppet rather then attacking conspiracy theorists why dont you go and research yourself rather then wasteing time on CNN Oh did you know most of CNN People belong to the CFR?
research
@Todd
You sir said have said this to StudentofNature
(StudentofNature, you need to do more research if you honestly believe the powers to be in this world did not have a reason to get rid of him.)
actually you need do more research on gaddafi did you know that gaddafi was working on water project for 42 years? that doesnt sound like madman project or plot of a madman, did you know under gaddafi libyans enjoyed free education free health care? i guess not since your mind closet by CNN.
So please Todd why you dont GO AND DO SOME research eh?
TruthSpeaks you ARE aware Gaddafi was a big player in the Illuminati right? Part of the Trilateral commission as well as other like minded groups? Last year an anonymous donor donated 3 million to Skull & Bones. It was a Libyan check. Why do you think he lasted this long? Reagan, Bush I & II COULD have taken him out rather than just bomb a few villages.
@Onesmallvoice
Instead of being grateful for Western help you are sarcastic! Go there and fight yourself instead of commenting!
@isolate, the "evidence" you're asking for is the article itself. Onesmallvoice is right: the author is basically advocating a forceful suppression of Libyian rebels and takeover of the country. What's next? Another puppet government installed by the U.S.? Thus, another "humanitarian intervention" becomes an invasion plain and simple.
It said the NTC should disband the rebel fighters, you dolt. Not that we should go in and occupy the place.
If you read it carefully you will see that the article is asking for the NTC to disband the rebel milittia, not western governments. There is a big difference. I disagree that now is the time to do so but it should be done soon unless you think it's a good idea to have roving bands of heavily armed civilians roaming around in trucks with nothing to do. Eventually they will have go back to their old jobs else their economy will suffer greatly.
"Evidence" involves verifiable facts. Onesmallvoice is an apparent paranoid who attributes all the world's problems to "right-wing thugs in Washington." He can't produce verifiable facts to support his opinions because there aren't any. America is not going to repeat Bush's mistakes in Iraq and Afghanistan, unless another pious Conservative Republican is in the Oval Office. This is the Libyan people's victory. It's the Libyan people's opportunity to establish representative government if they want it. Other countries should operate quietly in the background or bug off.
Furthermore, consider the source of the article. The New America Foundation the author represents is an idealistic activist organization with next to no voice in American or Libyan government policy. The author may advocate the confiscation of guns till the cows come home and nothing in Libya will change. The NAF reminds me of the "peace and love" hippie generation who were going to stop the Vietnam massacre with flower power. They accomplished squat as well.
Most of Libya outside the big cities is made up of tribespeople doing their best to live as if the 21st century didn't exist. They have always been awash in guns and will continue to be until civilization begins to take effect.
CORRECT! The VULTURES will pillage Libya and install military bases " a la Iraq-Afghanistan".
And to think, 6 months ago this whole thing could have been ended in two days by – The Expendables.
The Incredibles could have done it in a day.
and some ganja and one of my songs woulda done in it 3 minutes....Rastafari!
They will not merge with the reular Libyan miliary, such as it was anyway. What will happen and already has to some extent is there will be regional/tribal militias who are now very heavily armed. They will fight each other for any oil and gas field as well as refineries and ports. It will turn into another Afghanistan and Somalia except unlike those two countries Libya will an fractured state with islamist militias rich with oil and gas. All this thanks to America and NATO.
How about we just let the Libyans' run their own country. No NATO, no European troops or government involvement, No American troops or government involvement. I am really sick and tired of Europe and America sticking their noses' respectively in other countries affairs and telling them what they need to to do. Personally, I don't care if the whole of the Middle East would become one giant glass sculpture from a nuclear detonation. It is after all their countries', their way of life, and their culture. Let 'em have it.
Onesmallvoice – Based on what you wrote , you are a left winger who is unhappy with the decision of our left wing President to spend a few billion in Lybia. Don't worry , there is an election next year so you can vote for Change.
Hey moron! Obama started this conflict and bypassed our Congress to do it. The last time I checked Obama was a Democrat. So how is it that the right wing thugs as you put it couldn't be happier? You should change you name to onesmallbrain. Retard.
This is totally untrue i9n every sense if the word. It is the far right lunies controling the oil and gas industry who stand to gain the most from this revolution. Talisman, Chesapeake ad nauseum have been sinking horizaontal wells across the Libyan border for years artealing the wealth beneath the ground. Today they announced that they are already poising themselves to sweep in and steal it directly. They are the reason Qaddafi turned against the west in the fi9rst place. The NTC fighters should remain armed and ready to protect themselves from Satan's Dominions (O & G). If they do not they are doomed.
Horizontal drilling is why Gadhafi hates the West? Thats the most absurd thing I've heard all day!
sounds about right.
Time to force 'democracy' (ironic eh) into another country I guess.
You do understand the political spectrum correct? Do you include Obama as a "Right wing" thug, or just a thug?
Iraq= one trillion
Libya less than a billion..
enough said...
Rebels been rebels since I don't know when, but all she want to do is dance, dance, dance.
Yay. Go France. No, I mean go take the oil.
1. Gadhafi's forces are down, but not out. Don't discount the possibility of counter attack by forces still loyal to Daffy.
2. Disband the rebel forces and you leave a complete vacuum. Who will fill that vacuum? NATO forces? I don't think so.
3. When the fighting is over most of the rebel fighters will go back to their previous lives all by themselves.
4. What Mr. Barfi should advocate is a stronger coordination of rebel commanders to control the post-Gadhafi situation.
Your third point is worth noting. Many of these rebels have no home or lives to return to. They will continue what they are doing until forced home by a competent Lybian army or NATO.
A competent Libyan army? What an oxymoron. Now that the people have won their freedom, it is time for NATO to withdraw completely and keeps its nose out of the country and allow them to form their own government without outside influence. Period.
Egypt didn't disband their military and they are regretting it, now.
Bremmer disbanded the Iraqui army and Oh boy it was a huge mistake, after a trillion and climbing price Iraq doesn't have a competent army after ten years.. But we keep on training the new army..!!
Egypt didnt disband their military because they had no way , or want, to do so. The egyptian military is a standing well trained force in place for decades, not a collection of on the side freedom fighters.
The Libyan people have performed admirably so far. Why not let them finish the job their own way? There are no sectarian splits there as there were in Iraq, all of the rebels seem to want the same goal of a modern, educated prosperous country after 42 years of oppression, and the head of the NTC appears, if anything, to be too self-effacing. Goal number one is a stable government responding to the will of the people. Goal #2 is getting the nation's antiquated oil industry up to date and pumping money into the people's treasury, not King Mommar's.
Look at America's very similar revolution: lots of mistakes in the beginning, including even higher taxes than under British rule, but a government was slowly hammered out that became the envy of the world.
You do realize that Libya was an educated, prosperous country before this happened, right? They weren't living in squalor, eating trash, and afraid for their lives every day. In fact, the argument could be made that they were–by and large–better off than we are in the United States, based on things like social services, education blah blah blah.
Good point. Almost anyone is better off than the USA when it comes to social services, higher education and especially access to affordable health care. I strongly suspect that Libya did not have lawyers running around destroying the country like we do.
Agrees. The single most important thing that should be done by the liberators is to establish a permanent and inpenetrable barrier to keep out the Unnatural gas and putrid oil industry. They are already lining up like vultures for a chance to strip this country of those resources and turn it into a polluted wasteland like they did in Nigeria and the Sudan. They turned they country against us originally by stealing what was not theirs by secretly drilling into Libyan territory from surrounding countries and now are frothing at the bit to march in with their own foul breed of evil.
Sorry , but WRONG, Spin Doctors!
Being rounded up randomly by Q's secret police, to be tortured and executed, definitely counts as being WORSE off than citizens the United States. And that didn't just start in the last couple of months. His citizens' rights were suspended more than 40 years ago, as part of a 'temporary' declaration of emergency that accompanied his takeover.
He and his sons are directly responsible for oppression, murder, torture, and genocide against his own people.
Tell me again how great citizens of Libya have had it again?
Why do you think his people were willing to give up their own lives to end to his rule, anyway?
Also, don't let FACTS get in the way of your completely delusional political spin.
By the world education index, in 2007 Libya ranked Libya ranked 59 (The US was 20, btw)
That index tracks both literacy, as well as enrollment in primary, secondary, and tertiary school.
By literacy alone, by 2009 data, Libya ranked 112th. Not exactly Top of the class. (US ranked 45).
So please go spin your non-truths elsewhere.
To suggest the disbanding of the army of brave souls (students, teachers, laborers, farmers, etc) that rose up to liberate their country this early in a revolution whose gains are constantly being threatened by Gaddafi's thugs and mercenaries is the ultimate in naivete. Who does this writer suggest should take the responsibility of keeping the citizens safe from Gaddafi's vengeful thugs? He, and his mother????
Will there be elections in Libya?
That's the plan. But there are lots of immediate emergencies (power, food, water, gasoline) to be dealt with first.
It's not our country, it's theirs. So is the oil.
We (I guess this would be the U.S. and other counties) want to BUY the oil, not take it! It would be economically stupid not to sell a commodity or skill. Hopefully now the benefits of selling their oil will benefit the citizen of Libya not just the ruling family.
I don’t understand this obsession over the oil. People purchase other peoples goods and services all the time.
Libya doesn't sell oil to the USA. Just Spain, England, Italy, China, India, and Austria. But of course now that the major fighting is over, the usual suspects are ready to sign agreements to explore and tap new oil wells at the soonest available opportunity – BP, Exxon, Shell, etc etc – way to pander to greed.
I see where the author is coming from. A lot of what he is saying is partially true. However, Gaddafi's forces are not completely out. There's still Sirte to go and the Gaddafi' family themselves. Until ALL of Libya is completely liberated from this ruthless regime the rebel forces should stay running. Once our country (I am Libyan) is free then I have no doubt in my mind that the rebels will return to their families and hometowns to help rebuild our country. When the time is right the Freedom Fighters will disband, although many (who may have lost their family to the Gaddafi regime and have no one to go home too) may stay and join the Libyan army.
My heartfelt congratulations to you and your compatriots. It's your victory and a glorious one. You repeated what American patriots accomplished 200+ years ago, and I sincerely hope the rebels and the Libyan people soon organize to choose a government that truly represents the people. Libya deserves a bright and prosperous future of the people, by the people and for the people.
They are a lot more difficult to disband once they have rpg's, tanks and mortars.
lLOL... that was good, kind of true too – how does the local policeman disarm a guy inside a tank?
Yeah! Bring in NATO to rule Libya. It has worked sOOOOOO well in Eye-rak and Afghanistan!
Better yet, bring in the Pakistan Army and ISI to help bring Democracy to Libya and give them weapons and $B$ so they can give those to the Taliban and now to the Gaddafi loyalists, to keep the Arms Sales flowing for the next 20 years.
Where do you people come up with such daffy ideas? This is a victory of the Libyan people. They neither want nor need outside interference in forming their new nation. If they ask for assistance, as they did in leveling the playing field against Gadhafi's overwhelming military might, the West should supply it, but stay strictly in the background.
A victory for the Lybian people? That will happen a few decades later when the blood-fueds are half-gone.
Gerald is clairvoyant apparently. He somehow knows there is going to be blood feuds between the tribes in the future, even though they are currently co-operating...
Or. to use African examples, bring in the UN Peacekeeping forces. Like in the Congo (only 60 years and counting) or Somalia or Sudan. Or Sierra Leone or Central African Republic or Chad or any of those other wonders of civilization and democracy.
See above.
"...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"
Might be why US has never been governed by a dictator.
Are you advocating that Libyan's should now give up all of their weapons and take the risk that another powerful tribal dictator will take over?
Do not crow too soon little "Obots." The doors is wide open for Al Qaeda and their supporters in yet another country.
Put a UN Peacekeeping force on the ground and experience "Nightmare in Bagdad Part Deux."
And replace them with US troops to keep the peace.
Yeah...right.
Lets wish them well and stay out of it.
You are freaking crazy. He took them from the lowest income and literacy per capita to the highest in Africa.
This is about him not having a Central Bank, their 122 tonnes of gold, the massive water project, and their oil.
These freedom fighters don't want any outside influence? That is the reason they let NATO kill so many of their countrymen?
No, they are the CIA's paid "Arab Legion" and mercenaries.
Wake up fools...
Although you are technically correct, Gadhafi didn't contribute much to the growth in the economy. It was the discovery and exploitation of huge petroleum reserves that accounted for the change. Libyan GDP per capita was about $40 in the early 1950s and it rose to $1,018 by 1967, solely due to oil revenues. That's the increasingly prosperous nation Gadhafi took over with his coup in 1969. His attempt to impose Socialist central planning had the usual consequences, although the huge jump in oil prices after 1973 benefited Libya greatly, again without Gadhafi contributing much. (source: IMF)
As his dictatorship took hold, however, less and less of the oil wealth went to the average Libyan, and more and more went into palaces, monuments to the "brother leader," into his bank accounts, and into sponsoring comical interventions in African nations' wars and social policy. Gadhafi had created created a Libyan society that was utterly dependent on him for subsidized food, subsidized fuel, subsidized (lousy, Gadhafi-centered ) education, and on and on.
Yes, just before the revolution Libya had a GDP per capita that was ahead of the USA, again based on oil. but 95% of that wealth went directly to Gadhafi's coffers, hardly any of it reaching the people except in the form of subsidies. That's what the revolution was all about: the Libyan people wanted control of the county's wealth, as any people would.
Furthermore, Libya is not a country with high literacy. It ranks at #63 in world standings, and only 9 countries rank below it in Africa and. Libya is #9 among Middle Eastern countries. (Kuwait in #1) (sources: UN/The Economist).
Here's the smart one HU!!!
That's why he will do anything he is told for the rest of his life to make sure the truth never comes...
Actually the best way to confirm all sorts of conspiracy theories, that are not considered criminal because the President is at another level of acknowledged but lawfully claimed power, that can never be lawfully discussed, is to simply put the AG under oath...
Like your facts and actually learned a little but I still have more respect for a third world dictator getting head from a mistress and that isn't afraid to die by the same sword he swung, and I really don't have that much respect for dictators...
Well said!!
Sorry WRONG, conspiracy theorists. They are the Libyan people, who were so tired of Gadaffi's abuse, murder, oppression, and his pocketing of the nations wealth, that they rose up against him. They willingly risked and gave their own lives to bring his rule to an end.
It is Gadaffi that had the army of professional mercenary's. The majority of the rebels were just normal people. Students, shopkeepers, the unemployed, etc.
advice for the invaders n their supporters. make sure to accept the cuensquences when you invade the powerless. y u didnt act when the iranians kill their own ppl ? how abt syria ? scared ?
I can't get over how many people know what's best for Libyans, now that they have apparently succeeded in getting rid of Gadhafi. It's like the story of the little red hen – no one wanted to help her mix the batter, no one wanted to help her bake the cake, but everyone wanted to help her eat it.
Take a hike, all of you know-it-alls. You helped put Obama in the White House; now you want a hand in screwing up Libya, too. America's most egotistic mistake has been trying to impose the American political system on societies that do not share our American culture. Leave Libya for the Libyans.
Wow, you are really sick about Obama, aren't you? Totally destroyed your white hood and noose fantasies, didn't it?
No, he totally destroyed this country
___ Libyan Rebels = Nicaraguan Contras = Fabricated CIA Mercenaries !! ___
Reap what ye so, Amerikkka !!
CORRECT! Nicaragua gave a lesson to the 'Contras". We knew who was behind all of this.
Yeah, right! I guess all the protesters in Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, and Iran are all paid CIA operatives as well? They must have extremely large Coffers, because that would be literally bankrolling millions and millions of people.
Where is your proof of this? Or even a report from a reliable source?
If you believe in the concept of Occam's razor, then you must conclude that the revolution in Libya is an outgrowth of the Arab spring movement. Anything less is just conspiracy theorist wing-nut-isim.
This is the dumbest article I have read in a long time. Disbanding rebel forces will leave a power vacuum and could allow Ghaddafi loyalists to re-form into a credible armed resistance. Doesn't speak well of the New America Foundation that they let this article leave the confines of their offices, and it says a lot about the editorial process when CNN will go ahead and publish something this vacant. Apparently, as long as piece a comes from a major think tank or foundation, it will get published even if it would merit a low B at a mediocre college. Meanwhile, an individual could submit an op-ed of genius caliber, and it would not even get a look-at by CNN. Actually, I know of no route for an individual to submit something to CNN.
Be carfeul about disbanding the military. When we did that in Iraq, we threw the army out of work, occupied the country and the disbanded army bacame the opposition(i.e the insurgency). NATO and America have to play this cautious, you do not want to start a third war againsta native insurgency,but you do not want an radical Islamic regime either.
Agreed that we have to be cautious but there is a significant difference. In Iraq we disbanded their professional military who had nothing else to do. Most of these people were NOT professional soldiers but people with regular jobs that took up arms against their own government.
With 97% of the population associating with the faith, we better hope the moderates speak out against the extremist or Shari law will again triumph and freedom, democracy, and the rights of women will be thrown back about 600 years.
Here is a novel idea...why not simply let them make the decision for themselves? Even if it "sets back the rights of women 600 years".
Here's a thought...that worked so well in Somalia and Afghanistan, didn't it?
TOO FREAKING STUPID – Hasn't ANYONE Learned What Happens When you 'Disband' Armed Men? How did that work out with the BATH Party in Iraq? Or The MUJAHEDDIN in Afghanistan? What you DO is PUT THEM ON YOUR PAYROLL – On The Condition That You KEEP A CLOSE EYE on Them and that THEY cause no Trouble.
It will certainly have to be done sooner rather than later but perhaps it's not time now. They will have to go back to their old professions else what will happen to their economy? It's hard to grow an economy with roving bands of heavily armed civilians roaming the streets in trucks with nothing to do.
Barfi is complaining that NTC (the rebels' organization) failed to disband and merge into national army BEFORE securing victory over Cadafi's forces. Is he assuming that all CNN readers are dumb? Name one precedent in history when a revolutionary or military unit started disbanding itself before completely ending whatever war/revolution it was fighting! Obviously, Mr. Barfi has his own (evil) agenda to advance, but why make stupid points to support it?
Obviously Mr. Barfi lives in his own perfect little world where nothing bad ever happens. So who does he expect the Libya freedom fighters to be replaced with? Gadhafi's old army? Let the Libya freedom fighters liberated the rest of Libya and then worry about build a new Libya National Army (preferably American trained – Libya can afford it.)
Wow...shows the stupidity of so many...to the victors goes the spoils. We do. Why shouldn't they?
So you really, truly believe that Libya is a country full of mechanics and pharmacists? LOL... Libya had a 21% unemployment rate – the 'highest in the region' before the rebels formed up to kill ghadafi. Now, with everything bombed and nobody paying taxes or rent for the past 5 months, it's degraded into new somalia – lawless brigands looting stores and killing anyone who oppose them. Good luck getting them to give their weapons back – France will never see those guns again for sure.
3 cheers to the rebels for a job very well done. Much as comfortable authors of opinion might not understand the importance of...Gaddafi has not yet been caught... don't you think it might be a bit premature to send them all home.
I'm sure the American right wing must be gnashing its teeth over this dictators fall... after all it was done in such a way there isn't a chance western powers can exploit the country they've just helped to liberate.
Hey guys, will you visit ..... Help Faye . ORG ....... a friend of mine is Fighting for her life.... Thanks
Disbanding the military in Iraq after Saddam Hussein fell worked out so well for everyone!
It's not over 'till it's over.
Soon be time for the "new government" to "invite" the US to have several huge military bases in Libya.
I am not convinced at all that "Gadhafi has fallen" as this opinion suggests. I think we ought to let the Libyan decide when to disband and the US should stay out of it.
I agree with your thinking. I replied with a small piece of my own, but it co-incides with yours.
The author of this piece is poorly informed. For those rebels that have fought Gadhafi, they are not ever just going to give up their weapons if and when Gadhafi is caught. Most likely, they will believe it was their effort that brought about the change, and they will downplay any external aid. Whether we agree with this or not is immaterial, because they will write their history, not NATO, not the Brits , not the French and not the USA. To blithely state that someone should " . . to take the weapons off the street and return the anti-aircraft gunners to their jobs as mechanics and pharmacists" is the heighth of poor thinking. Who is going to do this ? NATO? I don't think so, as there are no troops on the ground. This is also true of the individual countries that have provided the help. And any attempt by the USA to enforce such a condition will be looked upon as more American bullying.
In the final analysis, this piece is just a wish list of personal opinion with little common sense attached.
I agree. It is too soon. But they need to get their economy going again as well. If they want freedom like they say, I doubt they'll let al Qaeda get in.
This author and article are pretty naive. You can't just say "show's over, go home".. Its not happening. Libya is screwed up for few generations.
Those who think this is not an efficient colonial war are also naive and should stop listening to the mouthpieces of the State Department like NPR, FOX, and CNN.
The sad thing is that West will get every penny back for all the bombs they dropped.
Lisa,
You are absolutely right ... it is not at all clear that the Lybian government has fallen. NATO and its mercenaries and some rebels took over certain areas of Tripoli but many (if not most) cities remain under government control. Most neighborhoods continue to be barricaded, armed by kalashnikovs distributed by Ghadafi. All Lybian tribes have vowed to fight NATO and the National Transitional Council. Furthermore, all "independent" journaliists remain detained in the Corinthia Hotel, unable to report objectively on what is going on in Tripoli. What we do know that a humanitarian catastrophe of immense proportions is unfolding in that once-beautiful city.
What I really want to know is the following: how do I get a job like Barak Barfi? Think about it – he is a 'research fellow' with the New America Foundation, and gets paid money to write this piece of STUFF. Does this piece mean that somebody with little or no common sense can make a living, posing as a 'Research Fellow' and writing stuff that is made public via the Internet? Dang . . .how can I get in on this ? Certainly wouldn't have to work very hard, that's for sure.
I wonder how many people alive still remember what a dogs breakfast Libya was back in the 70s and 80s. Various factions constantly at war with each other, each claiming to be the sovereign government. Gadafi may have been a dictator and he may have disagreed with US policy on many occasions, but at least he kept the peace for a few years in his little corner of the world. Will the next dictator do any better?
Many do not realize that in that part of the world, there needs to be a strong leader, who will often look like a dictator to the world. Often, it needs to be. For if not, that person would soon find the a victim – assassinated, and the nation will have eternal civil wars. We dispose one, and another takes their place.. often worse. TIme will tell... Iraq, Afghan, Libya, Syria, etc.
First of all, you can't just ban a "grassroots movement", the people with the guns won't let you! Secondly, if you think you're going to walk into a country that just finished fighting a civil war and just deal with the OIL, look at Iraq, it didn't happen and it won't happen. Libyan Oil is on the "back-burner" for several years and anyone who wants a piece is going to have to assist with hospitals, schools and infrastructure. Thirdly, guess who you'll find FIRST-IN-LINE with the money and help the Libyans need? Can you say CHINA!
Disband? Heck, why not call for world peace too? Good luck.
We just armed a rebel force which will in turn use that against the USA and Europe.
And do what exactly? What will rebels-turned-against-the-US-and-Europe do? Don't you think that the US, the French and the Brits couldn't manipulate one group against the other? Don't you think they have contingency plans for such an eventuality? I think this formula, i.e., using rebels for regime change while providing military expertise and manipulating UN resolutions will be -unfortunately- the winning formula for decades to come. The 'recipe book' is being written in Libya (and inspired by events in the Ivory Coast earlier this year)...
Did everyone here miss all the articles buried waaaay back off of page one about all the alkaeda (or however you spell it) miliitants that the rebels just released from the libyan prisons??? Looks like the old leader was telling the truth about the rebels all the time and it looks like after weve fought them for 10 years, we handed them a safe haven country on a silver platter and even released billions of dollars to them. What a joke our leaders are. None had the sense to find out who the rebels really were before we overthrew the old leaders with out 50,000+ bombing runs. Pathetic
Let them reshape their country the way they see it after all this wouldn't have happened if they didn't have arms it may be the only way to prevent the tyranny from emerging again.....!
One; it's their country, let them make their own mistakes.
Two; the war isn't even over yet! Don't you have something better to complain about for a month or two?
To the gentleman who stated that libya doesnt sell oil to the usa, youre quite mistaken. I dont know what whether or not the previous ruler did but the new ones definitely do. Have you forgotten the reports of when they took their 1st oil town and the later reports of an oil tanker leaving there for an american refinery? Im sure they sent many more tanker loads after that one but that article was from this site so Im sure it did happen.
Disband the Libyan rebel forces for whose advantage? So we can stroll into their country, install a Western style democracy, with a pro-Western government, conveniently selected by the West, so that we can pillage their oil resources and control their interests? Me thinks the writer severely misunderstands what this fight is all about. The rebels are tired of dictatorships and being controlled, whatever shape or form this comes in. Right now, the rebel forces are the only security in Libya.
It is not for us to design a system of law and order in their country, so long as the new regime does ultimately create and implement it in a humanitarian manner. If we interfere without allowing the Libyan people ample opportunity to set things right in their own country, all that will happen is the West will get sucked into another bloodbath.
No....they haven't finish yet. They hae to capture Gadhafi, judge him, and hang it. Then is over. No done until is over...
lol....good luck
These people are fighting & DYING for their Country. It's theirs do do with, to work for & to build!
Its NOT for anyone else to step in & take it from them!
When they ask for help then be there for them.
The US needs to have food, medical supplies, mediators and advisors on the gound there now. not later like Iraq, which fell apart because of the delay. If you want to win the hears and minds of the people, you need to be there with support.
The US needs to spend time and money on its citizens and let the world take care of itself!
It looks like a turn toward complete anarchy
No Freedom as Obama, Cameron, Moon, Harper, and others have been preaching. Now enjoy!
Oh no no no... There will be no disbanding! The NATO countries involved must now watch and experience what the fruits of their labour have reaped. And yes! there will be lot's of interesting things. Disbanding should occur when the leaders of these NATO nations involved in this attack along with that puny peanut in the UN; Moon, should be in the ICC right next to Ghadaffi.
Why can we just let the Libyans decides what to do with their life. Why do we in the outside world always suggest what is best for them. Let them shape their own destiny...
O-i-l.
the only thing disbanded this time will be every jew on this planet, just wait till they come to jerusalem and exterminate jew pest and jew parasite will never cause problems or provide gadhafi africbna mercenaries again. this will never end until jews are leveled with earth
To isolate,
I read all of your posts carefully. It is apparent that you are a CIA troll. Before Obama launched his ONE BILLION DOLLAR tomahawk weekend firework show, Libya had a vibrant economy (100 billion dollar surplus), the highest standard of living, High literacy rate, and most opportunities for women in Africa. Now, Libyans have no food, shelter(we bombed it), gas, or electricity. They only have massive amounts of garbage in their streets.The rebel counsel will now have to beg Obama and other UN nations the get their OWN money. The reason they need to get the guns, is so that these guns are not turned on the UN occupying army that is planned for them. Isolate, give up your CIA propaganda pen and go back to the field.
Yeah right, Send the rebels a text mesage telling them to lay down their weapons..That ought to be good for laughs..
I remember afghanistan.......Everyone was armed, Even Geraldo or what ever his name is or was
Mr. Barfi doesn't seem to understand that the civil war in Libya is not over. Qaddafi could easily come back if the rebel movement is not vigilant. This does not end until Gaddafi and his sons are out of the picture.
Barfi, you can barf all the way to the toilet. These ordinary people pulled together, with the help of NATO, to take down a fascist dictator and war criminal. They know what to do and they will restore services such as water, food supply, fuel, electricity, communications systems, and getting children back to a normal life. Wacky Ghadaffi and his aberrant sons and daughter and their spouses must be taken out or brought to trial. Nothing less than this will do. The Libyan Freedom Fighters will complete their armed fight for Freedom and they will restore their country to its historical magnificence. Keep going, Libyans, you are almost there!
Disarm the rebels? Now who is going to do that? What we are probably going to have is another Islamic republic with Sharia law just like Iran and I am guessing Egypt, in time. Our dynamic leader has people in government who believe the Muslim Brotherhood is just a "social" organization. I don't understand how supposedly intellegent people can make such idiotic statements.
Get real! This Arab Spring CIA nonsense is a continuation of our Central Intelligence Agency's(oxymoron) US foreign policy. We supply guns to Contras, Colombians, and Mexicans and Libyans when it suits the CIA. After the CIA has done their damage, they want their guns back. Look what the US government is trying to do with our own gun laws. Now CIA has co-opted the NYPD as its own subsidiary. In the US, were trying to take squirt guns away from eight year old children. GET REAL, the CIA considers eight year old children with a squirt gun in the U S dangerous. I can only think what a Libyan with a rpg would do to a CIA agent and their nonsense. The CIA is reaping what they sow, and I hope they get their just desserts.
They would make you pay the bill to you sad uck...
At this point, No matter how close to the filthy truth my satellite as sniffing trash tries to cusp over using tin foil psychiatry to set me just a little farther into accepting absolutely anything and falling into a lower quality of life forever, reality doesn't matter in my nasty nation..
Get some!!
Why covert loony toon operations need to set as an electrified tin foil backdrop for an operation as small as Libya is the real tragedy in my nasty nation that prides its free and open debate and exchange of ideas...
Have you isolated the 100,000 homeless vets yet Poet???
‘Discontinued Gaddafitroll 500 mg’
http://www.zoharme.com
Graphic Commentary on Bitter Medicine
the war isn't over. yes, tripoli is under control but it's a symbolic victory, not so much productive. gadhfai has followers throughout the country, and i fear that a long-term insurgency will continue to destabilize libya. Iraq has shown people worldwide that sporadic, but enduring resistance can wear nations thin.
Reply to Jonathan: You're right. As long as Ghadafi, et al can get weapons, have control of weapons, they will use them. Weapons are easy to get in the ME and Africa. I see a prolonged fight. I also see NATO forces coming in....maybe even U.S. forces under special ops.
Here we go again, another condescending, arrogant westerner talking down at folks from another developing country as if they were children. Never mind that the US and Eruope are bogged down in two stupid wars (plus the stupid never ending war on drugs) and their economies are in the tank, but noooooo, they still insist on playing father knows best to the rest of the world. Another thing, notice how in Libya they can shoot back at their no good tyrant government, but in Syria the only one doing the shooting is the no good tyrant government? What's the difference?...........GUN CONTROL!!!!!!! People armed to the teeth (legally that is) is the only safeguard agains their government if it turns against them.
Its time for NATO to pack up their war gears and go home and let Libyans rebuild a Libya of their dream not a Libya of the American dream. Who
asked the writer of this piece to comment? Saying that Libya would go the way of Iraq and Afghanistan is a deliberate insult on Libyans suggesting that they do not learn from other countries mistakes .just let them be all you Long noses!
@sTUDENTOF nATURE. you have no idea what ur talking about. Russian is #2 in oil production after Saudi and has no interest in Lybia other than selling them weapons. China could care less as they are too far away for geopolitical reasons
Not only the filthy Jew who posted this puke but the moronic American CNN which promotes it and the moronic Americans who accept this as normal .. to you all: I'd like to watch y'all trying to take guns out of the hands of people who have just put their lives on the line, good luck. Remember – Americans are 5% of the world's population – the other 95% hate you all to hell!
Do us a favor and shoot yourself, thanks
Is there such a thing as sovereignty? We and Europe wanted to insert a puppet government in Libya so bad we were willing to walk on a sovereign nation's sovereignty. But is this surprising, as the Free Trade Globalists believe in open borders and in shipping jobs away as they please. It is these people who have watched as our land has been overrun by foreigners. And it is overrun, as by 2022 we are on track to be a minority. Taxation without representation. But at least we have Votation, so I guess it's votation without representation.
Who is gonna come and save us from this repression?
Hey dude, check the rest of your facts. The CIA started its' Arab Spring Covert Operation at the same time it started its' NYPD subsidiary operation. The new propaganda is about getting the guns back. Thanks to the CIA and Obama, Libya IS starting it's own civil war. The CIA miscalculated(screwed up) and now the price is going be a ten to twenty year civil war. In the words of our social media, "OPPS YOU DID IT AGAIN"...
AGAIN...(Forrest Gump like)
Thank you New America Foundation for the globalist propaganda. Iraq, Afganistan, and Libya down; only Syria and Iran to go. That's for the project for the New American Century put together in '99(?). I thought the Neo-cons left the WH in 2008, guess I was mistaken.
Yes the rebels have done the job for us and we don"t need them anymore. .
My problem with the NATO intervention is that the US and EU has not noticed (or did they) that the rebellion in Libya changed, from being, as some of the Arab Spring revolts, a genuine one, to a tribal lead. The worst thing, as this scholar has suggested here http://marranci.wordpress.com/2011/08/28/the-libyan-revolution-tribes-andafghanistization/ some of the most important commanders elements among rebels were and are linked to extreme Islamic groups some of them involved in organizing suicide bombing in Iraq. The scholar above provided a strong point when we highlights the risk of afghanistization.
The author of this article obviously isn't a very bright individual. Disband the rebel forces? THE WAR ISN'T EVEN OVER YET. Tripoli fell, yes, but Gadhafi is still at large, and there still remains a few Gadhafi strong holds, such as Sirte, that are yet under Gadhafi control. How in the world can the author, Barak Barfi, even suggest disbanding the rebels when the war isn't even over yet? Really?
The Rebels will not disband voluntarily. Infighting will consume the rebels in a winnowing process to determine who the new dictator will be. I think this war will go on for a long time fueled by weapons provided by the U.S. and Nato. Europeans just want the oil, and will support anyone who controls the oil distribution. This is not about democracy. It is about settling old scores, and grudges that go back generations. The leaders of this movement do not see themselves like George Washington, but dream of living like Gadhafi. It troubles me that the U.S. financed this mayhem at a time when we can hardly take care of our own needs here.
king obooboo will not consult congress, he prefers the arab league, nato, and the un, he will support the muslim brotherhood as he has done from the beginning, expect chaos and then an islamic regime, this the trademark of king obooboo community organizin on the international stage
Now that the people are at the brink of overthrowing the tyrant, it is time to send them home and let the professional politicians usurp the revolution.
It is time to remind the libyan masses that they do not know what is best for themselves, and that they should let the professional politicians decide for them.
They allowed themselves to be used. Now they deserve to be thrown away.
I'm confused.......You mean Gadaffi is gone but they won't live happily ever after?..........lol
And just who is the author? vet him and you come up with nothing. CIA?
Gaddafi has many friends out there. He seems to be one.
Well, something ticked off the western powers....if not Ghadafi's drive to create an African currency, something else. What Ghadafi and sons forgot was that the social media is powerful. When news started getting out about the $1Million parties and homes overseas in Europe, that's enough to get people angry. We live in a social media world, which Ghadafi forgot. He was totally surprised by the demonstrations and rebellion.
a great many of the rebels are terrorist that gadaffi had jailed for trying to overtrow him before. islamic criminals. they should be rounded up and jailed and not be given positions in the new government. these people will cause libya big problems in the future.
As Egypt proved, when a dictator does not allow disent it does not leave much room for a middle ground or non-violent dissenters. Al Qaeda was actually created in response to political repression by Egypt and the fact that the dissenters could not have a political voice through non-violent means. In other words, if Libya becomes more open and free the attractiveness of 'terrorists' is much less. This is why in the U.S. we don't have armies of american born terrorists blowing up everything they can.
Viva la revolucion. Or something like that.
Lol, it's the Taliban all over again. Congratulations everybody. You just helped put the Taliban in power. Women of Libya, say good-bye to your rights. Lol, what a joke. Remember folks, it couldn't have happened without Obama's express approval.
Mr. Barfi,
The Libyan people and new government will decide the fate of fighters, not the U.S. or NATO, as it should be.
Your suggestion is premature - wait until the fighters defeat Gadhafi's forces before being critical.
Libia will be just like any other African country. The new government will be as bad or worse than the one before. Some strong man and his thugs will take over and tings will be as bad as before. They have given sanctuary to the man convicted of killing all those people in Lockerbee and feel he is a hero. This country should not be involved in this at all. It is time for people in these countries to take care of themselves. It is not our place to tell others how to live. We have embroiled ouselves in Africa and the Middle East and it has caused nothing but war and an economic disaster for this country. It is time we took care of ourselves and let other soverign countries do the same!
Not all african countries are unstable. Also a lot of instability in africa was funded/supplied by outsiders in Europe and the U.S. trying to get rich aswell as Ghadaffi's financing of armed groups.
Good luck with disbanding the rebel forces. Before we get all excited about Gadhafi being pushed out, let's see what will replace him. This could be a case of the cure being worse than the disease.
The reason we were in Libya had nothing to do with humanity. Gaddafi had been ortganising the North African States who supply Europe with oil to only accept Gold from Europe as payment for the oil they inport. He was not going to honor the Euro or the dollar. Europe has no gold so they called in a favor from the good old world police the USA. So now you know.
The article says the people are sure to turn on the rebels? Please. These are the same people who could not overthrow Gadaffi without the rebels. Everybody who could fight is either a rebel now or they were rounded up and executed by the dictator. And don't you think the rebels who are far from their homes want to return to their homes? They only took up arms out of necessity not because they are career fighters.
JohnCBarclow wrote: "Lol, it's the Taliban all over again. Congratulations everybody. You just helped put the Taliban in power. Women of Libya, say good-bye to your rights"
It's funny that women are never demanding the right to be on the front lines getting shot at during a war but suddenly people like you come out of the woodwork when the smoke clears talking about women's rights! LOL. But no, the rebels are not another Taliban. If anything they are less radical than Ghadaffi.
Agreed. The new government needs to take control. They need to decide who is part of the new military and who is just militia. Militia should be disbanded and returned to their old occupations. The new and official military should be carrying out the chore of capturing Gadhafi and his remaining loyalists. The longer people live by the rule of arms the worse the situation will become.
This is a civil war. Ugly things happen. The rebel army will not be dismantled until the transitional government decides to disband it or whatever. This is where we in the West should simply mind our own business. We only have to look at our own civil war and revolution to realize that there will be innocent lives lost.
It would be so good if these units turned on each other. that will be the justice that the western interfearance should get. The western companies who are the beneficiaries of this war should never be given a chance to work in that country without paying a heavy price.
It'd be interesting to see if the author of the article recently received a large payment from say a friend of Ghadaffi.
Yo! Braintrust! Who is going to go in there and 'disband' what is now the standing army of Libya? You? I sure hope to don't intend the US to do it? We're broke.
From what i see and what i know, little is been done to control the arms movements . Before one talks of disbanding, one would like to know how they were put together.This will really go a long way in disbanding them successsfully. Good luck Libya
Moammar Ghadaffi's wife and three children flee to Algeria and Moammar Ghadaffi's 40 year rule is over and not one US or Nato soldier died in this historic mission. Would you say president Obama's leadership and policies are the most successful in US history? Of course the GOP and their Tea Party would say otherwise because their wish is to see president Obama and America fail. But hey, Obama/biden in 2012.
Yes, disband them now before they are finished so Ghadaffy's forces can take over again – or so Al Qaida can wrest control. Awesome plan.
dude, chillax, they got like 7 million people in Libya all on the coast in a few cities. who thing is a cia operation, get over it. we have owned Libya since wwii. this is all a little show. Look it google: tripoli airport = wheelus !!!!!!
Yes, 0bama is the most successful president in history. Obama is Wilson with the league of nations, Hoover before the depression, LBJ with the Vietnam war, Russia before they went bankrupt, Hitler with his propaganda, and China with his censorship. Yes, and Obama has done this in only 3 years.
If our leaders believe that the current band of thugs they put into power in Libya will just lay their arms down and say "thanks for the help, we will rule this Islamic country with Allah's peaceful nature" I both laugh and cringe. Anyone tested the Pentagon's mental state lately, guess they don't read history books.
Let's be honest – who really cares about what happens to a load of Arabs far away?
Ha ha! Yeah.. let's see you disband the rebels. They're just waiting to be told what to do.. Barak.
Disbanded? Now that IS FUNNY – must be 'Western Thinking' going on here! You haven't seen the end of bloodshed yet – NOW the jockeying for the 'Spoils' comes, LMAO
It isn't any of our business.
itll turn into anarchy and remain so if they dont get organized and restore law and order real quick
The funny thing is most people reading this article did not even know nothing about Libya till now and have so many opinion based on what they read by the media. Do you honostly think our media will ever say we are wrong in doing something or say something that is not somewhat polically correct, people forget in the last Presidential campaign certain members of the media were kicked off the plane for not reporting what our president did not approve of. We are a free nation we are free for we believe in it and our culture is built it. Even though we are free we are a very young nation, a nation or a empire that has accomplished so much in such a short period of time. We did so by getting some of the smartest people in the world by promising them freedom and a better life. But one thing we do forget, those that want to be like us are here already, those that like the way thier life is have thier beliefs. Now as a young nation we keep asking acient nations to change thier beliefs and follow our belief. Most of you responding have no origin of a middle east, i come from a nation that felt a genocide not by its own people but a foriegn nation that most consider a consider a ally in the middleeast. over 2m of my ancestors died in a period of months, of which my bloodline was knocked down to 6 members. The nation of my origin is a Christian nation surrounded by muslim nations and all that died had a option to change religion but decided to die as Christians. Now i know how the muslim radicals think, they don't care of each other, they are broken into many tribes, no different than the US had when it had mass numbers of indians running around which we extermintated for the well being of this nation. Gadaffi even though is not a man that was kind and i certainly do not agree in the way he treated people but to keep peace in a nation that is power hungry and gets it with killing he needed to be tough. The world is not used to that for thier cultures are different. We don't have extremist as the middle east does, that are no in mass numbers are they are and they are. When do you hear us Christians going to church everyday to pray, we are too busy having fun, enjoying life, working and just relaxing. In thier religion all they do is pray and when someone they trust says something they follow. Those are tribe leader. Now you hear people happy that the regime is losing. Just as many as are happy, you have as many that are sad. Look at our own country, half the people in this country are happy with the President and the rest are not but when the media wants to show success they will only interview the happy ones. You actually think the rebels are not raping, steeling from the private people. wait windo rboken from airstrike i see a tv, i will let the store owner keep it for it is not broken, lol ya right its gone before he knows it. These tribes today are fighting to gain power once they get it they will turn on each other. Half the leadership team is ex Al Queda members or ex Ghadaffi members that will fight for power. Funny how no one mentioned that Ghadaffi had arrested 1,000s of Al queda members fighting in Iraq and ran to Libya for safe haven. Over 600 of them were released last week. Everyone knew what they stood far and they joined a force that is runned by a Al Queda leader under the rebel flag. This peice will not come anytime soon and all we have done is built more terrorist that will attack all Christian nations. This is a war of religion in there minds, they will accept our help to make themselves stronger and then turn on us like they turn on each other. That is common sense. Also people forgot before all this Libya was trying to be our ally and had built a good relationship with the US and Bush. He was able to convince them to give up the technology of nuclear weapons he paid 100s of millions to members of the pan am flight, even though it was wrong of his doing no dictator that is as evil as the media has drawn him has ever addmitted fault and paid survivors. The country that did the geonicide on my people of heritige till today after 96 years still does not admit in killing millions for if they do they will be kicked out of the UN and will be required to pay and give back the lands they stole. So my point is this war was greed of certain policians around the world that were promised certain money from certian companies to take out a country leader that was hurting profits, instead now we have blood on our hands for money, and a revolution that will last even if Ghadaffi is dead for they will fight one another till another Ghadaffi has power and in the meanwile terrorism grows in a new nation.
PS i am getting tired of hard core democrats talking about the trillion $ war in iraq. Most of the money was spent on US soldiers, employees that went thier, and companies that made the weapons we use. And those same people spent that money in your store in your neighborhood that helped you buy you vacation and toys you enjoy. Saddam was a active terrorist not just a dictator.
Disband Rebels? Easy. CIA stops handing poor Libyans weapons so they can take a picture for CNN.
"Time to disband Libyan rebel forces" -- Yep, that's going to really happen. The genie is out of the bottle. Let's see how Hillary and Obama handle part 2 of their humanitarian adventure.
Isn't it up to the Libyans whether to disband the revolutionary forces?
The author must be joking or smoking. "Take the guns off the streets," "Return to their jobs as pharmacists ad mechanics," these are muslims, Mr. Author. The only thing a muslim really knows how to do is cause a ruckus of some sort. They know how to fight, but not all that well. The world is really no better off now and Libya probably isn't either. At least Gadfly kept order of a sort and what ever he did with his muslims was his business. Now there will be chaos. Disarm a muslim? yeah right. You will get his AK-47 when you pry it from his cold dead fingers.
And have we forgotten what happened pretty much right after the fall of Saddam?????
None of the oil talk matters, not a bit of it. We are at peak oil and oil is getting more and more expensive to get. the only thing that matters is power for the future of this country and the only viable supply is in wind and solar. If we can not pull this off we are finished along with everyone else. We need to stop investing in the same old thing and start looking for something to replace it. That goes for transportation, housing, all infrastructure and even our political system. What has been tried does not work any longer. Power politics is a wash as it costs to much money and material to project that power and I am shore we don't need it. With a few codes in a box we can destroy the world so our only need is a good defense and R&D. Tear down and rebuild what is not efficient and spend our money on off planet mining. Does that sound crazy well there are trillions of trillions of tons of raw materials out there and we fight over and pollute our planet for no good reason. So go ahead and act like stupid apes and throw away the future or act like real people and take what is there and we have the means to get.
Love the shirt
Being fat is much better than this ;p