Editor's Note: John Kao, dubbed "Mr. Creativity" by The Economist, is the chairman for the institute of large scale innovation and author of Innovation Nation. You can follow John on Twitter, Facebook and at www.johnkao.com. This post is the third of six pieces by John about his recent trip to China. The first post was China as an innovation nation. Check back each morning this week at 8am for the next installment.
By John Kao - Special to CNN
Two narratives are in play these days with regard to China’s innovation future. They could not be more polar opposite. One is openly dismissive of China, while the other sees a massive threat from the East on a scale that makes the Japan of the 1980’s seem like a tea party. The truth as always lies somewhere in between. But there is value in deconstructing these current perceptions because the future of China is definitely in play, and with it the world’s response.
Perhaps the most obvious example of narrative #1 is a recent editorial in the Wall Street Journal, titled Chinese Innovation, A Paper Tiger. It argues that China’s innovation prowess has been misleadingly marked up because of the number of patents it has filed. The authors, respected management academics, contend that the quality of those patents is low, more related to incremental improvement than groundbreaking innovation and therefore, China is not an innovation force to be reckoned with.
While this may be an argument for teaching logic in business schools, it is typical of a more general thesis - that the Chinese are imitators, that they will always remain “downstream” from us who are the “upstream” wellspring of world-changing innovation. The “paper tiger” reference itself suggests a kind of pejorative payback, in that it was originally used by Mao Zedong to describe America’s lack of military will during the Korean war era.
Read post #1: China as an innovation nation.
Others who want to dismiss Chinese innovation with broad brush, negative strokes accuse the Chinese of attempting to win by cheating, citing ongoing issues with piracy and counterfeiting, or the perception of self-serving national innovation policies.
Finally there are those who feel that Chinese innovation is not relevant because the wheels are likely come off the Chinese economic juggernaut over time for many reasons, including: corruption, bad accounting practices, real estate bubbles and a social payment overhang of massive proportions.
The potential for upping the vitriol ante is disturbingly large, and does not lack for proponents. For example, Congressman Frank Wolf of Virginia recently introduced retaliatory legislation that effectively prohibits the White House’s Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP) and NASA from any scientific collaboration with China, specifically any funding effort "to develop, design, plan, promulgate, implement or execute a bilateral policy, program, order, or contract of any kind to participate, collaborate, or coordinate bilaterally in any way with China or any Chinese-owned company." This is one reason why OSTP - the U.S. lead in the innovation dialogue with the Chinese Ministry of Science and Technology - was not along for our study tour. If the Chinese had questions about our fiscal policies, think how they must now begin to wonder about our politics.
So where does this leave us? As mentioned earlier, the truth is somewhere in the middle. China is not the Beast from 20,000 Fathoms that is poised to eat our (and everyone else’s) lunch. But they are richly endowed with innovation assets and their portfolio of investments are likely to pay off, which clearly makes them a force to be reckoned with.
What are these assets? First, and at an actuarial level, China’s massive population creates the world’s largest talent base. If you believe in the golden bee-bee theory of creativity (for example, that one out of a million people is a genius), then China has approximately 1,400 of such big brains. Capital? China has tons. Also, pent-up consumer demand and a high savings rate will support the development of an ocean of new businesses. National will? No one who visits China can miss the zeal with which national development is being pursued and the kind of hunger for knowledge that leads to business and social advancement.
Read post #2: Why is innovation so important to China?
Venture capital? Absolutely. While venture investing tracked at a respectable $5.4 billion in 2010, its growth rate is described as being “second to none” by Lux Research. And the ranks of business angels and entrepreneurs, though admittedly not many in the all-important serial entrepreneurs categories, is growing rapidly.
In terms of a national strategy for innovation, China definitely has one, and is iterating on it to realize continuous improvement. Innovation is clearly featured as a national priority in the 12th 5-year economic plan. More importantly, they have a cadre of leaders who get it, are responsible for it and are doing it. Innovation stewardship? Check. Infrastructure? Massive investment is pouring into science, technology, institutions of higher education, broadband etc. And perhaps most importantly, China has a national vision that the innovation drive is linked to.
Of course, there are significant liabilities on China’s innovation balance sheet and a good number of significant potholes on her path to becoming an innovation powerhouse. Three are worth mentioning in particular.
Pothole #1 is the Chinese tendency to think vertically from an organizational perspective. That is to say the person on top gets wide latitude to call the shots, whether they are the CEO, the professor or the domain expert. Part of the subtext of the periodic suppression of dissent in China, in my view, is because it is culturally dissonant and disrespectful to oppose the authority of one’s elders. I’m not justifying the Chinese position, but rather pointing out the challenges to the kind of innovation that largely comes from the edges and bottoms of organizations, and does not necessarily run parallel to a status hierarchy.
Related to this pothole is the overweighting of Chinese education towards neo-Confucian rote learning and “respect the teacher, learn the content” style of pedagogy. This shapes a culture that avoids risk and prefers incrementalism based on known business models rather than disruptive innovations that represent a leap into the unknown.
Pothole #2 is the tendency to rely on a centrally planned and top down approach to innovation. The Chinese approach to motivating innovation by linking benefits to the production of scientific papers and patents for example may be of some practical utility. But it also speaks to a nostalgia for an industrial model of productivity made up of objective inputs and outputs, metrics, and transform algorithms that fly in the face of much of what we know of as disruptive innovation, which can be inherently inefficient, nonlinear and on the edge.
Pothole #3 relates to ethical standards. The world will not accord China the full credibility it deserves until issues of reliable accounting, scientific honesty, and effective policing of intellectual property theft are addressed. The ethical issue inevitably leads to a perception of self dealing, and will be used by Congressman Wolf and others of his persuasion to justify the kind of retaliatory, zero-sum thinking that could lead to what one might call an innovation war. I will deal with that scenario as well as the potential for China-U.S. innovation collaboration in my fifth post of this series.
The views expressed in this article are solely those of John Kao.
© 2012 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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I think the US and Fareed spends more time determining if China is innovated than the chinese government. Seriously how is this related to fixing america? Or are we just going to ignore it completely and blame it on china?
China is going to war with USA, its going to be the result of WW3
How do the two go to war with each other? To claim what? Innovations?
I think small advanced economies are flexible and more favourable for innovative people than countries with big bureaucracies. They can sell their ideas to China and the U.S for big money.
We are at war with China and its an economic war. We are loosing. badly
china is a 3rd world country and will always remain a third world country. you can only use slave labor for so long before it backfires on you. the rest of the world will NOT allow you to destroy the environment to try to become something you are not nor ever will be, a true world superpower.
and another thing, hows the weather there, lol, miss your 44 million yet? oh wait you need to loose 750 million before you re-gain solivance. I think china is doing just fine at distroying china.
Going to war with China this reelects the nostalgic bi-polar point of view we enjoyed with former Soviet Union. China is neither our friend nor our enemy. They are a rival both economical and in a sense culturally. We need to engage with them but at the same time realize this.
They are competing for resources and market / I would feel China Achilles heel is defiantly squashing of descent and ethical standards. Who in effect is behind the curtain pulling the levers & who pays when injustice is found. China has a very poor record on human right , rights on descent , opposition , unborn and religious freedoms. with out true openness mechanisms to to provide due process and accountability China will implode . Its a matter of time when dealing with socail injustice.
we can kick your azz china. with nukes.
i hope you realize that a lot of countries have nukes now...it's not ww2 anymore
Go nuke your azz
We have only one earth. You can nuke here and nuke there, but eventually you will nuke youself!
If you can't even kick Afghanistan's ass, how the hell can you kick China's ass??
to the detractors of this statment i have 2 thoughts. #1, it is called mutually ensured distruction, and it stops nuculer war. #2, what ever the government says we have had reliable anti balistic missle tech for 20 years, they will launch, (btw the launch of a nuke takes hours, not minutes) we will blow it up in silo, then we launch and the loosers loose.
Since many of you call China "immitators", China can nuke your fat American asses too.
The US has at least 1500 nukes, according to the START treaty. It's questionable whether China's 40-80 would even make it across the ocean. So no, you aren't the USSR. Stop posing lol. You couldn't even send one nuke to each country in the world. Just give up, you can't win against the US. The USSR tried, now it's your turn to be disappointed.
@US of A,
Have you noticed the fact that the nations that are now acquiring nukes (north korea, burma, Iran, and Venezuela ) are all friends of CHina. Increasingly, that includes Pakistan. So, are we going to nuke all of them as well?
If you look carefully, these nations are satellites of China.
Where this comes in handy for China is that down the road, these nations can threaten the USA and then we send into them. That will be followed by China coming at us. It would not be a big deal, however, we are cutting back our missiles and warheads while China is quietly restarting their warhead production.
@ Smart black guy,
If that is so, why is America not nuking China?
Well, If US is very strong,why US lose the war twice in Vietnam and North Korea.In that time, China was as poor as an Africa country,
China already kicked America's azz in the Korea War and that was without them having nukes at the time.
bish please.
I think they are a paper tiger, and I'm not going to let Mr. John Kao guide my discussion on this topic. Everything they do is face saving/image enhancing. They don't innovate for the sake of innovation. Cracking the whip and saying "innovate da*n you!" isn't going to make them innovate either. It would require an entire break down/reconstruction of their society to be free and not just give the illusion of freedom.
顶!
The U.S.A. needs to take responsibility for itself and not try to be the policeman of the world. We need to improve our education system back to the point that it is at least one of the top systems in the world, if not the best; we need to provide business with incentives and protections to innovate and produce; we need to cut back the level of taxation and simplify the form of taxation on individuals and business; and at the same time provide protections for the environment and the people. Poisoning our own nest or that of others is not an option. Passing on onerous debt to our grandchildren is not an option. Using our men and women in the military as mercenaries to protect the interests of the oil industry is not an option; they are to be used to provide security for OUR Country. Politics and partisanship as usual is not an option. As one of the Founders stated, "We need to hang together; otherwise we shall hang separately."
China is innovative because there are a lot of smart people, a culture that drives people to succeed, less government interference in business and more stable IP laws.
Yeah, and there are more coms and insidious chinese. Everything is fake and everyone is a liar there in china.
So many smart people in China?? Susan, have you ever been to China or better yet, lived here? I've been here 6 years and can honestly say I've never been around more backwards, ignorant people in my life. So many lack basic knowledge about health, science, and the outside world. They also lackk common sense–and graduates of Chinese colleges can barely function on their own when they get out of school. It's the bane of MNC's here. Creative and critical thinking? Forget about it. They don't know what they don't know. Stop relying on stereotypes to make your supposedly educated points, Susan.
Susan, almost everything in that sentence was factually incorrect. i cant tell if you were trying to be facetious or not. China is not full of smart people, especially when compared to a Western nation, like the US. The bulk of their population lives in total ignorance of the outside world, and has little means of becoming informed – it's not like they all can just flip on the internet and see what the world is doing.
Their culture doesnt encourage innovation, it encourages success, which is not the same thing. Again, for diametric comparison, Western culture teaches individuality, responsibility and independent, creative thought, all of which are necessary for innovation and development.
Finally, less government interference? More stable IP laws? You do understand we're talking about China, right? The same nation that has practically NO IP protection, so much so that copyright infringement and international bootlegging has become a huge problem? The same nation whose primary businesses are state run? In the west, if government run programs account for say, 15% and private is 85%, in China those numbers are reversed.
Wait a minute. I am wanting to start businesses in China and work for Chinese companies. They will pay me lots of money for my ideas. I will get paid more by Chinese companies than American companies. This is not about loyalty to a country, it is about capitalism and using your talents to make money. China will buy American brains, if necessary, to innovate. This is not attacking America, it is being like America. Isn't that what we want, the rest of the world to be like America? I will be glad to sell my unique innovative ideas to the highest bidder, like any good American should. If the highest bidder is the Chinese government, how is that anyone's business but mine?
Don't be naive, Dan. I've lived here in China for 6 years. Have you ever heard of localization? Only Chinese get hired here by Chinese companies and MNC's, except for top management still here on expat packages. Do you speak fluent Mandarin? That would be one vital criteria. Another, if you somehow got hired, would be to accept much LOWER pay than you've ever earned before, because Chinese would rather get your ideas for very little or free. They are used to stealing their ideas–do you think they are going to be you a lot of money? Everything you might hear about dishonesty and cheating in China is true and more universal than you'd ever believe. I suggest Plan B, Dan.
I don't the US is going to blame it on China. I think the world will though. Opening up trade with China clearly has ruined the world. China itself has diluted the consumer market but who is exactly to blame? The US who started the trade agreements or China not holding up fully to their word on the trade agreement. China won't let their currency float and therefor monopolizing the manufacturer employment market. They won't let it go because they don't want the jobs to leave. Companies are now seeing the problem, they are able to sell their products at a cheaper price with an increase of profit however, consumer market has decreased. Damage has already been done and China should have copied enough make themselves self sustaining. So whats the answer? China can only go so far on cheap labor. As the consumer market has decreased which we are experiencing now China will slow in growth. It is funny because the two countries are nearly perfectly correlated with one another. If US looks to India to replace China, China will likely fall. Since labor is cheap and demands minimal resources China is on a verge of make or break. One thing that China does have the upper hand is the resources (rare earth metals and minerals) which our technology rely on. But the only reason we get our resources from china is because they can mine it cheaper and at a large volume. Until other countries can get up to speed on this then China has that in there favor. I wouldn't fear China, they are not even half the size of economy yet and prolly won't be in the next 5 years with projected rates.
China is a communist police state using massive public works to back entry into areas such as solar arrays. They have stolen the designs and processes for many, many things, pegged their currency to the USD by fiat, and are, as a result, basically engaging in economic warfare with one aim: take down the US and make China 'great' again. Are they a paper tiger? They cannot even claim the South China Sea, and they just make up GDP numbers, so, yes, they're about 50% full of nonsense. Can they continue to use state money to pound our enterprises and flood our markets? Yes.
If they took us down who would they sell to? WIthin the time it would take to fight a war we could bankrupt them by boycotting their goods.
Who would China sell all of that junk too if they nuked us?
"Make things cheaper with dirty energy and paying your workers little to nothing" is not innovation. The word "innovative" means "something new, not done before." Making things cheaper with dirty energy and paying your workers little to nothing has definitely been done before, and continues to be done.
i love you guys
http://www.payscale.com/research/CN/Country=China/Hourly_Rate
Assembly factory worker making about USD 4. Don't just look how much they made a hundred years ago and talk tought here.
(1) Americans are the dirtiest energywise. They have the highest CO2 emission per head in the world.\
(2) Chinese workers are paid adequately for their living. Our cost of living is far lower than in the US. They even have the liberty to migrate to where the pay is higher, most of them flock to Yangtze delta region for this reason. Some of them even have enough money to send their children abroad for education. We got use to save money, our income has allow us to do so as well. In case we really become out of job for whatever reason, the first thing we contemplate is how to spend less from our saving for maintaining living; instead of figuring how to pay the credit card amount spent last month.
One thing the Chinese emphatically do not have is the freedom to move to where the jobs are. The vast majority of internal immigrants can't get hukou, and can't send their kids to school.
The USA have the 12th highest CO2 emissions per capita.
Ahh Kailim, your post illustrates one of China's biggest problems. No domestic market! Sorry to tell you this BUT the Walmarts of the world cannot and aren't continuing to expand indefinitely. China needs to start stimulating domestic demand.
Right, why does China get to abuse powerless workers and freely pollute? That's not fair, we should exploit American workers and be allowed to pollute at home here in America!
Since the 1970's, China has required anyone doing business in their country to invest real money locally while disclosing manufacturing and other processes to the government. We cannot compete with a police state bent on using capitalism and 'free' markets to destroy us in order to be 'great' once again. Look around US universities - why so many Chinese students? Their next phase is to bring home our know-how most broadly, and after stealing technology and ensuring we can't even sell them movies, well..........
I like the Greeners. I remember when we were smelling coal smoke and our fathers were working and we were the strongest country in the world. If smog kills people why has China got 1.6 billion souls still kicking?We have millions over 70 years old here and they surely smelled coal smoke.A bunch of hog wash.Fat and sitting on the duff,and pills are killing Americans
blame it on china
Economically speaking, China is fast becoming King of the Hill but militarily, it's a Paper Tiger compared to the United States. Ours is the only country in the world to spend over half of the revenue on it's military and that makes us a military superpower but is weakening us economically. This, I expect to continue!
i highlt doubt it. As long as the "remember 9/11 and the support our troops" cries are made, we will continue to spend on our military. Which I find highly strange, if "we support our troops," then why do we place them in dangerous environments for no reason? I.e. Iraq
In modern day Economics is more deadly than any military. And to deter military invasion all you need is the power to blow up the planet once. No idea why we need enough Nukes to blow up the planet 40 times.
China is no more interested in trying to expand beyond its borders these days than it has been over the past 5000 years. China has been a defense oriented country (the Great Wall) for a long time. It has been invaded much more than it has been an invader.
china has nothing to prove...every country is talking ill of china ..but it seems the Chinese government doesn't give a f***, and you think Bush doesnt give a f***..try China.
I agree about the paper tiger comment. China just built it's first aircraft carrier. How many does the US Navy have? I do not agree with your half of our revenue going to defense comment. The US annual GDP around $14 trillion a year. Defense budgets run around $600 billion a year. Percentage wise that is actually on par with many other countries. Our economy is just much larger than other nations. I am so tired of so many people trying to prop China up. As Americans we need to take care of our problems at home, our budget deficit etc. The world needs to hope the US never falls. China allies itself with the likes of N. Korea, Iran, and Venezuala. I live in Europe, and trust me when I tell you, they no longer have much of a back bone when it comes to standing up to tyrants(except GB). Without the US and its Military there will be no one to keep the wolves from freedoms door.
The US has 11 carriers and China didn't build one from scratch I believe they refurbished one they bought off the Russians.
Paper King or Tiger of the Hill?
@common dense I think you spend far too much time trolling than reading and comprehending articles. Also I'm pretty sure that the article was written by John Kao, not Fareed Zakaria. Did you even read it?
Chinese innovation is important because right now, the US is leading the world in innovation and it is one of the main reasons for our success as a nation. I do believe that John Kao nailed it on the head. The main problem stifling China's innovation happens to be one of their strengths and proudest accomplishments, their long history of tradition and culture. It is continually instilled in them to follow culture and to not "think outside the box". In America, innovation comes from the highly educated as well as the college dropouts who take their deviant ideas and make them a reality. Our mix of culture offers more opportunity for innovation.
I hope you realized the meaning of ratification. Karo might have written it but Fareed placed it on his blog. Thus is the term "ratification." I think you need to go back to school instead of trolling.
What's the US innovation? Create the ipad and then the ipad 2 which is basically the ipad with more space? Let me guess the US innovation is going to war with 2 countries installing dictators and destroying its economy? If that's innovation, I'm glad china is not part of it
Ratify – to confirm by expressing consent, approval, or formal sanction
I don't see how posting something to your blog means you approve or agree with the article. Could it be that the article is interesting? pertaining to current economic situations? possibly a good point of discussion?
really? the ipad 2? that's the best you can think of? I was thinking more along the lines of supersonic aircraft, cotton gin, morse code, atomic clock, chemotherapy, the INTERNET and most everything else pertaining to it. the greatest/worst invention ever, the atom bomb. But if you want to stick with the ipad that's fine with me, still more innovative than making fake knockoffs of ipads and trying to pass them off as their own. Yes I know the ipad/galaxy tab/playbook are all copies of something else but they happen to be the best at what they do. That's why I would still say that my ipad is more innovative than your chinese Huawei crap, which is sad considering they are both made in China.
oh yea, forgot another great american invention, american football! ha!
China's policy and culture is kill innovative,The high price of the real estate the serious inflation will cause more and
more people lossing their innovative.Since people won't have enough money to put it into the enterprise or establish a business .All the money go into the real estate as well as the bank.
Chinese learn to mimic and take ideas. Mao's ideas are their ideas – taking someone else's idea and it becoming their own idea is something they have been trained to do. It crushes innovation they don't learn to have their own ideas, they learn that other wiser ideas (again, Mao or Confucious) should be internalized and become THEIR ideas – they need not bother to create their own ideas. BUT, they now are beginning to understand this, they are now bringing American professors to China to teach. Innovation will improve in China in the next 20 years.
Innovation is not the issue, the Chinese are master copiers.
Going back to Adam Smith, a nation's wealth is what it manufactures, mines and grows. China has an almost limitless supply of cheap labor, no labor unions, no workplace safety regulations, no minimum wage, no environmental regulations. As long as we force U.S. companies and workers to compete on such an uneven playing field by allowing free importation of Chinese products, the U.S will lose. We have already transferred a significant portion of our manufacturing base to China. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out why our economy is in trouble.
I agree with you, Uncle Sam, that the trade agreements we've made should've addressed a better level playing field. Innovation, alone, cannot help our economy. The number of people to employ, encourage and support innovation is a lot less than the number of people needed to manufacture the end product of the innovation.
However, we still need to worry about China's ability to innovate. If they could also create new products and technology and hold more patents, the U.S. could be shut out of being able to use them. Patents and technology are often the source of more new products. Hence, if we are not able to use them, we are not only shut out of 1 thing, we could be shut out of many down-stream products. Once that happens, even if we do decide to get back into the manufacturing game, we can't because we do not own the technology or patents.
I agree with you Uncle Sam. As long as the Chinese culture is prevented from free thinking, they will have problems with large scale innovation. On the other hand, as Americans, we are putting our ability to innovate at risk because of our failing education system. The taxpayers have invested in each child in our public school system something North of $100,000, yet we continue to allow a few to disrupt classes in which we have 2 or 3 million dollars (20 or 30 students per class) invested. This makes no sense and should be dealt with.
Whatever. But one bright Chinese invention I especially enjoy is e-cigarettes. Thank god for it, because I don't reek of cigarette smell, Clinton does not know I smoke.
So the ones that do not conform, who live out of the box, should be made to be "NORMAL".
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-Geo. Bernard Shaw
Actually Uncle Sam, some Chinese workers are starting to unionize. Hence, why companies like Apple are moving farther inland. I think we will see quite a bit of this "cheap labor chasing" in China in the years to come.
As mentioned yesterday, China's system is not set up for free thinking which results in innovation. Free thinking = questioning the party which is a no-no in the land of peaceful harmony.
Rewriting someone else's research but with Chinese characteristics does not equate to innovation either.
Who needs nukes? China's lifeline is trade with the US and Europe, cut one off and China falls. The economic weapon is far more deadly and less destructive than the physical ones. US/China war would also erase America's "debt" with China if you believe that it actually exists. Its more a necessity for the communist's existence.
You are so smart. You will be the president of XXyYYZ island.
So to make China fall your willing to commit suicide? While a large part of the Chinese economy is heavily dependent on exports which guess what are needed and required by almost every western civilization, it is slowly moving toward a more consumer based society. Cutting off China's trade is the equivalent of nuclear MAD on an economic level. China pulls their investments from America causing a cascading effect that will effectively destroy the world economy. Good job governing.
We can survive an economic embargo of Chinese goods, they cannot. For all this talk of "they took our jerbs" the truth is that the most technically challenging industries are keeping their plants in America, because you need innovation to build a better computer, you need slavery to build a better rubber chew-toy. Any shooting war would be economic suicide for China – they would lose their merchant-marine, their trade agreements would be void, and any debt owed to them would disappear.
China was the world’s largest economy for 18 of the past 20 centuries. China going back to the king of the hill is merely a return to the status quo.
-umadbro?
what a stupid headline! Like most things in this world the truth lies somewhere in between. China is actually quite innovative with recent technologies and also significant investment in R&D in the past decade but it still lacks certain countries although the gap is closing. They are probably about 3/4 th up the Hill but they are definitely not paper tiger.
Stupid sensational headline as always.
I seem to be having trouble finding these "innovations" during the last decade. Could you name them because the only thing I could find that China has recently given the world are cheap Walmart prices.
China currently leads the world in published nano-technology research. They invented the maglev wind turbine, which is 50% more efficient than any other design. They are the first country to produce a cheap hydrogen fuel cell, and they are putting it into all sorts of vehicles. China is also the world's leading producer of solar cells, and they are very close to overtaking the US in almost all areas of green technology. The US is still #1, but unless we get serious about science and math education, we won't be for much longer.
The fact that you actually think all China makes are Wal Mart products is warning enough for me to not get into any sort educated and factual discussions with you.
I'm pretty sure the maglev wind turbine was originally invented by Hermann Kemper and commercialized by Ed Mazur. I could be wrong but i got that straight from the company's website.
China also specializes in modern day concentration camps in Tibet and Uigur regions, making ancient tortures fashionable in the world again. The world wouldn't care as long as they get their dirty hands some money. On second thought, the Nazis already did it. So, they copied that too.
Innovation, alone, cannot help our economy. The number of people to employ, encourage and support innovation is a lot less than the number of people needed to manufacture the end product of the innovation.
However, we still need to worry about China's ability to innovate. If they could also create new products and technology and hold more patents, the U.S. could be shut out of being able to use them. Patents and technology are often the source of more new products. Hence, if we are not able to use them, we are not only shut out of 1 thing, we could be shut out of many down-stream products. Once that happens, even if we do decide to get back into the manufacturing game, we can't because we do not own the technology or patents.
I absolutely agree! The manufacturing end supports more jobs than the innovation end. This is why our economy is hurting right now. Although we still have the innovative edge, the lack of domestic manufacturing is killing us. If we were to lose the innovation as well, that would be the end. We need to keep our innovative lead as we start bringing manufacturing back to the US.
The biggest 64 million dollar question is HOW do we bring manufacturing back?
On the side, we have a party that keeps yelling for eliminating taxes, demolishing unions, and ending regulation. OK....so, their answer is to turn this country into Little China....low-wage vs. low-wage ... yeah...I guess you can call that a level playing field.
On the other side, we have a party that is yelling to spend more money on infrastructure and education. OK, so....then what?
On both sides, they want MORE trade agreements with MORE low-wage countries.
Globalization is unavoidable and unstoppable. So, I think it is a waste of time to argue for shutting down all doors and all opportunities. However, it doesn't mean just because you have to make a deal, that you have to be a schmuck about it! Can we please elect sensible people to our government ... i.e. NOT the ones who keeps parroting their party's garbage talking-points? But people who actually understands complex global matters and who actually want to find INNOVATIVE trade agreement solutions?!!
We do have a door of opportunity left open yet. We are capable of manufacturing high quality items while the Chinese are content with lower quality. It's not that they can't; it's that they don't focus on high quality. As long as they are satisfied with that role, we have a niche.
Whilke I agree with most of what you have said........ I find it hard to believe that we the USA or europe for that mater will ever take over Chica's status as a consuming contry. They have 1.3 billion people and the US has 315 million. Even if the US bought one item made by China we only purchased 315 million items. Now if China would allow the US to import itmes made in the US to sell to the 1.3 billion people we would not need Chica to purchase and US bonds.. but that will never happen. You see when a US company goes to Chica to open a factory they sign over their rights and yes for about 3-4 years the US company gets rich but then China suddenly starts making the same item and they put the US company out of business. If the people of the US actulay knew which oroducts were being made for the chinnes companies and that which is made by the American companies they would soon know the magnitude of the theft the Chinnes are doing to the American economy. As it is everything says MADE IN CHINA but is really american and what is chinnes?
As to the chinnes building their infrastructure, yes this is simply to do. They simply pick out an area they want and move every living thing out and build the structure.... in the rest of the world they would have to go through zoning and purchasing of the land to build it....... It is not a democracy but still a comunist contry... the average chinnes do not have rights and therefor no say in what happens to them. The Chinnes government give just the right amount for modern inventions and rights to playcate them and take what they need.
America will never surpass the chinnes. they have too many people and our buying power will never equal what the chinnes have in population alone. We can only surpass them in inteligence, inovations and creativity give throught the democratic rights each of us have and the Chinnes will never have............. we are not sheep and the chinnes are..... they are followers and will never lead the world in power........... They need us too much......... GO AMERICA
Haven't you noticed that democracy sucks. Command economies are the ones that work best, long term and short term stability. China always knows where its going, 5 year plans help to steer the country, allowing time for adjustments to be made. In America, king of democracy, whatever the polls say is good is the direction the country will move. This means that every two years the direction of the country changes, but that is only factoring in congressional and presidential election cycles, if you factor in the gubernatorial cycle then the shift in the direction of the country is more to the tune of once a year. A country that constantly changes its mind will go nowhere. If you look in the past of America there was a direction that everyone agreed to move toward, but with the hyper partisanship the country is not moving anywhere. Time to change who your root for, the chant will not be Go USA but Go CCP.
You're right, command economies work so well in Zimbabwe, Cuba, North Korea . . . the only "command economies" that work are ones that allow more liberal capitalist approaches, like Vietnam and Venezuela. That is what China is trying to copy, but on too grand a scale.
China has NEVER been "great." It has never been a leader in economy, never commanded any kind of overseas empire, has no force projection or ability to assert its will beyond its own borders. The rest of the world plays along with China for cheap crap, chuckle and politely nod when they publish a "We can science too!" paper without being able to back up any of their claims, and sit back watching a system that will destroy itself within two decades.
the future of china depends on the US policies. as long as the US corporations continue moving their business to china and the support for science and education continues its decline in the US, china will soon become the leader in innovation even if they don't want it. i see the future china as a hybrid of their cheap labor and american money and talent. not much has been said about how china is repatriating their thousands of american trained scientist and engineers, and how they are hiring american scientist. soon the best schools to study science and engineering will be in china and at much lower cost than in the US. this is what the conservative agenda is all about, to take american capital to china where it will grow much faster, and weaken the US government so it can not oppose that. the conditions to keep the capital in the US is to lower the labor cost, lower taxes for the owners of the money, and weaken environmental regulations, so the US would have to become another china.
China isn't an innovator, they're not willing to innovate. Name something China has given the world in the modern age... nothing... A more accurate assessment of China is that they are a paper Hyena, they wait for the U.S. and other modern countries to innovate, watch the true innovative nations spend billions of dollars on research and development, wait for that product to hit the market, spend pennies on the dollar to reverse engineer it then use it's massive cheap labor force and inferior materials to mass produce it and sell it cheaply back to the original innovators. China is a paper hyena, they wait for the US to make the kill then come in and eat the carcass.... People keep wondering why a communist Government has been able to thrive and succeed in a modern age when most others have fallen to the way side because it simply is not an efficient ethical way to govern a society... It's because we keep feeding the beast... The only way to end this threat, which i truly believe that country is a threat to the world because it cares so little for other societies and the enviroment let alone it's own people... is to stop feeding it... stop doing business with them... isolate them... starve out their regime... Otherwise the world will be dealing with a tyrannical society as a superpower ala the Soviet Union..... way to go backwards world.
American has no future if you are not a American president again.
you are so wrong. Without Chinese, you don't even have paper and powder
Well, Mr.clinton, why then did you remove the human rights portion on the most favored nation status? That was the tipping point, which allowed the flood gate to open up and now we have what we have here. Trade without any morality attached to it is simply wrong business and will ultimately harm the values of the society that engages in it. America made a bad move on it. They should have kept the human rights clause on the trade with China and we wouldn't have lost so much manufacturing jobs to China.
To add to the great posts regarding to China's oppression of their people, respect for intellectual property, and ability to operate bottom-up instead of top-down... these are definitely road blocks to an innovative culture and society.
In a way, I hope that because the government is making a mandate to drive innovation, this would mean that they have to eventually address these points. In a way, this 'government sanctioned' goal becomes the catalyst to philosophical changes into their own society. They will have to come to terms that when they want to protect their own intellectual property, they have to protect others. The executives and bureaucrats who need innovations will now have to start asking for input from the the workers. This, in turn, get the workers (i.e. the common people, the masses) to start speaking out and to start questioning. Once you get people to understand that they have the power to speak even if they are low in the totem poll, they may start rising to the challenge in other aspects of life.
I know this is wishful thinking, but that is my hope....that this will help push China to a more open society.
There are a lot of posts stating that China is an imitator; not an innovator. I hope this doesn't lull the U.S. into thinking that we don't have to worry about this Chinese turtle taking over this American hare.
There are posts stating that China only knows how to copy and that is why they can't be innovative. I don't think it's logical to use the current state as a reason why it cannot change. that is not a cause and effect reasoning. If you look at a child learning how to do anything (e.g. draw), they first learn by imitating. After they've mastered how to copy or trace a drawing, and then they start analyzing the world around them, they quickly learn to create their own. The first step to innovation is to master what's already known.
As per my previous posts, China does have big obstacles to overcome, and these obstacles are put by the Chinese government themselves (i.e. treatment of people; top-down organization; inability to resolve conflicts without force). Innovation is messy and it is conflict-ridden and it requires a safe environment where people are allowed to voice dissent. If the culture does not allow for this, then it cannot be innovative.
@Clinton,
Actually, Walmart and its allies are giving China the means to produce America's innovation. They're bringing the factories over to China.
Manufacturing nolonger is a reflection of a country's wealth. Back in the day with no free trade, you kept factories at home because tariffs made it too expensive to import and offset cheaper labour. That nuisance nolonger exists. This is how innovation lead to wealth, more innovation meant more factories to build it...at home.
@umabdro,
Those 18 centuries is only equivalent to 2 modern centuries, everything gets faster with time. Last 100 years, world has seen more innovation than the last 2000 years. During China's reign, you also needed actual money as a store of value and wealth, today, you just need computers to keep track of "money", whether you can actually touch that money or not, or if its just the same $100 recycled 1000 times through the economy.
This article made me wanna read Animal Farm again.
It appears China is using that book as a growth model
Neither. Plastic tiger, actually. Western counties don't want to pollute their own homelands and China is a cheap place to dump garbage. We need a healthy China in the world, otherwise, eventually we are backfired. My heart goes out to those suffering Chinese due to heavy pollution. Air, water and soil..
China has many issues to address before becoming a legitimate world leader. Human rights issues, mistreatment of it's people, freedom of speech, freedom of the press are a major problem. Their government is repressive and corrupt. Cheap and shoddy products from factories that have poor pay and unsafe working conditions is another major issue. Contaminated products and the uncontrolled use of pesticides and growth hormones on farms and livestock is another huge problem. Reliance on coal, excessive greehouse gas emissions, industrial pollution and cities choked with smog is another. The Chinese are their own worst enemies in the struggle to become a modern industrial nation.
Gaadffly, you are just regurgitating rhetorics based on your prejudiced views.
Seems to me like it's both. In the long run the health and growth of China may be good for the world. The issue is how long will the current Chinese leadership be able to hold power ...
Being both half-Asian and half-American, my brain is usually at war with itself. The American brain comes with new ideas and concepts, whereas the Asian brain takes those ideas, makes them better and cheaper, and kicks the American's brain ass with it. Of course the Asian products tend to fall apart within a year, and poisons people. LOL!!
Good observation Jack of Arts! Ken and F. Daniel Gray have good comments too. Some of us expose our ignorance of the challenge that we face from China. What was true 10 or 20 years ago is no longer true. What is true today may be no longer true in another 10 or 20 years, especially in China. All it takes is for the leadership in that country to change their policies on a whim. Right now, they are wisely taking the path that benefits them the most. Tomorrow or next year, they may chose another path. Right now, they truly do have a free enterprise system and it is healthier than that in the U.S.A. That said, they face a number of challenges in the areas of food and water safety, environment, and working conditions. I think they understand that they need to deal with most of those issues or sometime in the future, the populace will rebel. They don't want nearly a billion people to rebel and it is in their own self interest that they will lead, mostly in a positive direction.
I don't see people risking their lives sneaking into containers to migrate TO China.
No we just get on a plaine Business Class.
China has a recent history relating to other major nations. Hu Jintao said it best several years ago, "... with Chinese characteristics." They felt independent enough to tell the Soviet Union, their only benefactor at the time (1947), they were not going to play "little brother" under their tutelage, resulting in the ideological "split." They,, in turn invited and contracted with Western Europe to come and build manufacturing complexes, leave the plans, and return "home." The US eventually got into the "game" in the 70s and transferred their manufacturing to a local entrepreneur. It has now entered the African market, not caring a whit for local politics, or seeking puppets, or forming military "alliances," and having "bases," the US scenario. In a further move, undercutting/outmaneuvering the US, It has contracted with Italy, to build Scarabeo 9, an oil drilling platform for Cuba. That platform is scheduled to arrive in the Gulf of Mexico this year. CNPC (China), Gazprom (Russia) PDVSA (Venezuela), Petrobras (Brazil), and others, (not the US) have formed a consortium with Cuba. At a minimum, the success of the drilling, which is predicted to be quite likely, will make Cuba energy independent, and eventually a net exporter. Throwing the US blockade into the dustbin of history. It is predicted that by 2025, China will have more high speed rail than ALL of Western Europe. So, since 1953, nary a shot fired. Innovative? You betcha.
The chinese government has become very innovative at controlling their people and stifling the individuals innovation.
i have found that china is far behind us in education. most of the people do not have access to top notch schools, rural schools are a disaster. yes, there are 300 million that can send their children to good school, but they do not focus on training the person, we make rounded social people that can retrain if needed.
2nd is that the chinese have a true free enterprize economy. one westerner, who started 5 business's in china said that in the west you might have 6 months to a year before some one copies you, in china it may be only days. they set there looking for a idea that works, ie, we say the early bird gets the worm, they say the early bird gets killed. why try something new and risk failure if you can wait for some one to prove it.
China is still far behind even as they are gradually catching up.
By the time Western capitalism gets through with China and India, the world will be one large toxic waste and garbage dump with the entire Pacific and Indian Oceans clogged with plastic. Wise up, China and India, before the capitalists do to you what they've done to us. So says Confucius.
Byrd. You've made an excellent observation. Too bad that your advice is unlikely to be heeded.
China is laying low and not making a peep for now. This gives us a false sense of security, so that we keep buying and buying. They WILL tighten the noose. It will be bad.
I've lived in China for 10 years, have taught at the university level and done business. The Chinese don't think creatively because of conditioning–here people are told what to think and don't have the right to think independently. The Chinese system of mass indoctrination education produces 'Xeroxed copies' that are highly disciplined yet dull and colorless, lacking in soul, spirit and vision, what some foreign educators refer to as the "glazed over look". Also, creative impulses are pre-emptively suppressed since even if someone had a very good idea, everyone knows instinctively that it would be quickly plagerized, copied or stolen and the idea would benefit someone else. The corruption here is so pervasive that it influences everyone's consciousness like this, and for that reason China may not need to innovate. The experience of most American and foreign firms operating in China is that their technology is quickly pilfered, but for reasons that I don't understand this doesn't seem to stop them from coming and investing here. However, rarely does the innovator or inventor of something new benefit much from it, so why innovate when you can replicate?
Capitalism is built on pervasive corruption. So what's your point?
You got some good ponits. So I heard they are working hard correcting their education systems.
Take a look at US patents at the USPTO homepage, especially biotech patents. Notice how many of the inventors are Chinese? They will move back to China and continue their innovation as soon as the infrastructure is available. Today Chinese innovate in US labs and universities, tomorrow, they will innovate back in China.
CNN, this is your 3rd article on this.....jeez, people are beinged paid way to much to do too little aka fear mongering, no wonder the state's falling apart...
China isn't an innovator, they're not willing to innovate. Name something China has given the world in the modern age... nothing... A more accurate assessment of China is that they are a paper Hyena, they wait for the U.S. and other modern countries to innovate, watch the true innovative nations spend billions of dollars on research and development, wait for that product to hit the market, spend pennies on the dollar to reverse engineer it then use it's massive cheap labor force and inferior materials to mass produce it and sell it cheaply back to the original innovators. China is a paper hyena, they wait for the US to make the kill then come in and eat the carcass.... People keep wondering why a communist Government has been able to thrive and succeed in a modern age when most others have fallen to the way side because it simply is not an efficient ethical way to govern a society... It's because we keep feeding the beast... The only way to end this threat, which i truly believe that country is a threat to the world because it cares so little for other societies and the enviroment let alone it's own people... is to stop feeding it... stop doing business with them... isolate them... starve out their regime... Otherwise the world will be dealing with a tyrannical society as a superpower ala the Soviet Union..... way to go backwards world."haha as a chinese the only thing i can say is "haha"
In modern history, how many countries can be considered as "innovative"?
US is actually still pretty innovative. It's just that new inventions aren't praised as new and unique as much as they were a couple decades ago.
You're living in the past, how can the US innovate with a failed educational system, you are an example.
China chose the right "business model" decades ago. Its called – reverse engineering. Why invent new things when 1.3 billion people's potential can be used to make cheaper products? It was the right choice of strategy for short term (30-50 years). But make no mistake, when China becomes #1 economy, we will change "the business model for the country" from reverse engineering to pure innovation.
As more and more Chinese ppl become wealthier and prosperous, cheap jobs will be outsourced to other countries (maybe even to US:) ), and innovation will be the main driver of our economy.
The U.S.A. needs to take responsibility for itself and not try to be the policeman of the world. We need to improve our education system back to the point that it is at least one of the top systems in the world, if not the best; we need to provide business with incentives and protections to innovate and produce; we need to cut back the level of taxation and simplify the form of taxation on individuals and business; and at the same time provide protections for the environment and the people. Poisoning our own nest or that of others is not an option. Passing on onerous debt to our grandchildren is not an option. Using our men and women in the military as mercenaries to protect the interests of the oil industry is not an option; they are to be used to provide security for OUR Country. Politics and partisanship as usual is not an option. As one of the Founders stated, "We need to hang together; otherwise we shall hang separately."
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. AND I MYSELF IS A TEACHER OF IELTS STUDENTS, I'VE TOLD THEM THAT ALL THE THINGS YOU HAVE SAID
我看啊 这帮老外也是民族主义情绪太高涨 大概也是受刺激太多了 就是看中国不爽吧
是“自卑感”；我们也是一样。
其实只有少数国家算是innovative， 包括日本。
为什么会这样呢？这是 我们中国人应该好好探讨的问题。
Why is that?
0其实也可以理解 老外这么激动有他自己的原因 现在欧洲那边也出事了 希腊那么大点小国 出了危及自己不能解决就想求助于法国德国 结果人家出于自己的利益考虑也不管 欧盟啊也是土崩瓦解 面临经济危机 就是大难临头各自飞 英国更不用说了 失业率那么高 搞得大家只往街上扔石头 美国呢 天天骂中国 结果还赖着中国的债不还 脸咋就这么大呢。。。。。。。各位帝国主义老兄 意识事态的时代已经过去了 再骂中国的时候先看看自己 要hold住啊 哈哈哈哈哈哈
SO TRUE!!!!!!!
China is too regulated to foster innovation. The government clamps down on people and that will restrict what they can really accomplish. The US has entered the same phase! Obama's regulators are stifling innovation. Our schools have so many stupid rules that US kids are now stupid compared to the rest of the world! So China and the US will both fail unless someone wakes up and realizes people only innovate when they are free. Liberals can't handle that! Communists can't handle that!
Your education's failing big time, it'll take years or decades to fix that before you can innovate, name calling proves your limited intelect and you're living in the 1950s.
In 1980s, China couldn't produce TV, recorder, washing machine, very low production of car, plane or ship; now, most those are from China .... thats what china has done in a very very short of time, it is amazing ..... No matter how creative you are, you can jump from stone age to modern world right away, you need to master what already exist, then go beyond that. China finished that step in a flash, considering how behind it is after WWII, you just have to give it to China.
As for if China can produce new ideas, we just have to watch and see ... but if USA just sits still, if education in USA doesnt catch up, if best americans all just want to be lawyers, CEOs or physicians (with all respects, those are not jobs that "creative"), someone will pass us very soon, China or not.
Using a little bit brain, and you would not think Chinese are just immitators. Simply put, to be innovative means being smart. You think Chinese are not smart?
It is silly to even discuss. China can never be an innovative country. One reason above all: There is no respect to IP. Any innovative idea will be plundered by companies and individuals in China in a heart beat, so much so that inventing will make you puke.
There is no stopping China from becoming the greatest and richest economy by 2030. This is not only because Chinese people have intelligent genes in them. Chinese tradition and culture encourages prudence. Wars is the last thing in their minds. Because wars are a waste of money and disrupts what they are good at – trading. Money was used in China a long time before the Europeans know anything about economics.
The worst thing any American or European do for thei economy ill is put the blame China, – instead of admitting their own inability to manage their country's finances – or money properly.
An Republican President hopeful who is stirring up Americans resentment for China, by vomitting ridiculous insinuations and accusations against China – is simply barking on the wrong tree. And he would not make a good President because USA needs China more than China needs America by 2030.
Sad reality is that it scores political brownie points to blame China. What human would blame themselves?
What for the American culture when USA is almost on the brink of insolvency? Better not follow American culture too. Chinese Confucious teaching the important culture of prudenceI think is better. Americans should learn not to shoot from the hips all the time, because they will shoot their own foot !
Why innovate, when you can copy and make money the easy way? Also, it's ingrained in the Chinese culture. From young, children are taught that they have to study hard to make sure they make a lot of money so they as well as their family can prosper. In the chinese language, there are a lot of proverbs and sayings regarding wealth and prosperity. And according to chinese culture, prosperity is having lots of money(and grandchildren). In a communistic society, conformation is seen as the norm and innovation is just asking for trouble. Heck, you can even get jailed in China just thinking different and having your own opinion!
Well, I think right now China is not innovating much, and it's because the country is in the process of catching up with the rest of the advanced world. It's naturally that a person who's been lagging behind should first of all catch up and copy, imitate. But one day, when the person is at about the same level, he or she will want to figure out something new. Such a day will come soon after China becomes more developed. China's danger is not in its ability to develop or innovate. Its danger is in its corrupted officials and injustice which might cause social disruption or even war. If they don't have any war in the next 20 years, they'll develop well into advanced arena and will start innovation. As to people wanting to get rich, don't Americans do that just as much? By the way, nowadays, an average Chinese doesn't have as many children or grandchildren as an average American. So there's really nothing particular about Chinese wanting to get rich. I think Americans are just as guilty in that sense.
So why are you complaining, now that your country is in great debts? You are now actually complaining that you and your country have no money. Just plain jealousy. Something wrong with your brains isn't it. Smart people have enough money, Not stupid ones.
Being a Chinese high school student, I am in a good position to say a few words
Firstly I agree that the Chinese culture really promotes obedience and conformism. That is partly due to our long history of feudalism during which people could only survive and prosper by complying with the rules set by the authorities. This kind of fear and respect for the "legitimate" is still prevalent in modern China where people are not allowed to question anything. For example in our history lessons we are only required to memorize the textbook content (pro-communism and pro-government) and simply write it down in tests in order to get high marks. We do not write essays, do not express our views and are discouraged from thinking critically. I guess the Chinese government does so to purposely make the younger generations unaware of the crimes it has done and hence ensure "stability", which means the interests of the communist party is not harmed. Many of my peers do not even know the Tiananmen Square protests. Many of them even think that China's victory in World War II was primarily due to the efforts of the Communist Army, as stated in China's history textbook. As a result, Chinese students' thoughts are severely limited and they rarely develop their own ideas. They only need to memorize the textbook to get into the top universities in China. However China is a rapidly changing nation. The younger generations are becoming more and more liberal in thoughts and are increasingly "Westernized". I can safely say that at least 80 percent of those born after 1980s in China like countries such as USA UK Germany and France. They like to mock the Chinese government and satirize China as the "heaven dynasty". I believe as China reforms its education system (political system if possible) and releases the pent-up innovative potential in Chinese students, China will truly become an innovative country in hopefully 20-50 years to come, considering the huge talent pool.
It was China who invented paper, gunpowder, compass and printing. When US was no where to be found, China was one of the most powerful civilizations in human history. Before the Americans start to look down on China, read some history first. Without the fresh blood of talents from immigrants from all over the world, US is doomed to be less than nothing. Don't ever forget that! America is great not because its people are smarter or better than other people, but because it has believed in God (for a while). Now the people of this country are leaving God behind. It looks like It's going to go down one of these days if we don't repent soon.
What a stupid post...
You can be called stupid as well. Name calling doesn't say anything really.
Dave while your cavemen ancestors were eating with their bare hands thousands of years ago, the Chinese were already using chopsticks. Just one example.
Oh, when you drink tea, remember China. Tea was discovered in 2737 BC, by China.
You're taking it way too far back. You can also might as well say the Arabs were superior because they invented algreba and today's numeric system, but look at their people and their region now.The world 2000 years ago wasn't the same as today, same for China. The China today is a communist state, not ruled by feudal lords. And how China is being run now, you just can't have innovation, it's simply a paradox of communism. Now Chinese individuals who are brought up or educated overseas are different altogether though. But then again we're talking about China as a country, not its people. So while chinese people, like every other people, can defintely innovate, China itself as controlled by a communist government, isn't for innovation for the simple fact that they do not tolerate alternative thinking, and that is one of the core prerequisites for innovation.
you seem to think that USA's (u stupid ass) position remains static. As you have just quoted about the past great civilizations, its your country's turn to go downhill. Slumber on. Its somebody else turn.
May I add that China also invented its own language and writing. And the way ancient chinese characters were formed or formulated suggested the practical aspect and nature of the Chinese mentality
.
China isn't innovative at all...
One of the big reasons for this is because in the Eastern learning system, Professors are seen as always being right – they are never questioned and it is frowned upon for a younger person to question them. This prevents progress in research and, as a result, in new technology.
This is also why you see a lot of people from the East going to college in the US – they know exactly how bad their learning system is.
Exactly, that perfect mix between reverence for the knowledge of professors and the will to best them is essential for success. Bowing and looking in the floor as if you stand in front of a Duke who might decide to lop your head off if he feels like it isn't going to cut it. I see that all the time, being a university professor myself. Some of them come out of it, but it takes a process to get there.
two tigers rival for the first position!
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American like all 'powers in demise' are disillusioned and bamboozled by the strong economic progress by China. They can't get in their head that their days are over and it is time of China. I have an advise for Americans, get all of your forces from all over the world to USA and try to think what you are going to do in future.
No one, not the envious US, could stop China from advancing. It's only China itself will bring ruins to itself, if it doesn't improve on human rights and other social affairs, to make it more balanced for all people in the country. It must do everything possible to keep peace, no wars, no military conflicts. That's the key to China's success. As to the rest of world, they'll just have to face the fact that China has paid its due to its bad luck for a long time, and it's about time for it to be revived again. Americans, read some Chinese history. China had been a very powerful and prosperous country way before US was established.
The U.S. is not envious of China. I suspect it is just the reverse in a number of ways. And whatever "dues" China has
paid for its "bad luck" is not relevant. China's bad luck seems to be that she shoots herself in the foot at very inopportune times. I hope she doesn't do it again but I suspect that she will. The only "innovations" that will mean anything in China are: (1)that powergrubbing CCP quits micromanaging all aspects of Chinese life, and (2) the establishment of an independent judiciary/legal system that is truly fair and transparent. I don't see that happening.
Unfortunately, China is NOT a paper tiger. And I suspect that when the rest of the world finally tries to pressure
China into fair trading and labor practices we'll see sabre rattling that matches the Cuban Missile crisis in severity.
US estimated that China has around 400 warhead to 2000...but that's only an estimate...they never disclose it..
US has around 10,000...Russia has just about little lower than the US in number...
With all the increasing number of illegal immigrants and the increasing number of black on white crimes, america will collapse on its own.
Greed and money may drive innovation in a place like Russia but that is not true in the
rest of the world (the noncommunist part of the world, anyway). Illegal immigration or
"black on white" crime won't cause the collapse of the U. S. either. And you're flat wrong
about that,anyway. If anything is sadly laughable it's your "Russiapride" racism.
Moral corrosion is what bringing down America; it starts with silent killing of babies daily and dishonesties in wall streets.
I think china is not paper tiger, china is influence country and will be top country in the world. But china now is a copy guy. They can copy anything from the world, from big thing to small thing. innovation of china is copy ability.
Did you guys NOT read ' the hym of the Tiger mom' ? China does not make innovators, it makes soldiers and imitators. That, unfortunately, is enough to win a war...
Greed and money drives innovation. As long as the innovator gets their share, they will innovate. All these stupid arguments about no freedom or democracy, no innovation are laughable ..if that's the case, South America should be as innovative as the United States. And India should be the most innovative country in the world since they are the largest democracy.
Money, precisely. And copying is much,much easier to make money than innovating. It's essentially the mentality of the people there, they see no wrong in counterfeits, in fact, if you buy original and pay more for it, they laugh at you and call you a fool.
America will collapse on its own with its increasing uneducated black population and illegal immigrants receiving free aids from the country. This country is divided. Multiculturalism works only if the immigrants are talented and educated. A bunch of fruitpickers coming to your country won't do you any good, but it seems like that's what America has nowadays. The black populations are also increasing, contributing to more crimes (statistically proven), terrorizing their own citizens. Affirmative action ensures more less qualified people becoming "qualified". 1.4trillion dollar spent on War on Terror for almost a decade while China trying hard to develop its economy. The high tech fields in the US are mostly consist of white and asian scientist...(a lot of the asian scientists here are also chinese descents). Before you start mumbling your wishful thinking about China, Americans should really look at themselves. The future trend is obvious, America is in decline. And with that, Russia is happy:)
"All these stupid arguments about no freedom or democracy, no innovation are laughable"
Only to a Russian who may long for the return of governance of the Stalin sort...
All that china has is all of our money, along with a government that will do anything to get what it wants done regardless of the human or environmental cost. Just look at their recent bullet train debacle. China is only into one thing and that is China. No matter how much money they have and how many people live there it will always be a 2nd rate country and will never earn the respect of the world as long as they treat their people the way they do.
Are you implying USA is 1st rate country? Sadly USA was but never more. Been travel around the country lately? Today, our food lines are almost as long as the greatwall of China. I don't enjoy writing this but this is the fact!
That's not a fact. Its exaggeration to the point of being total nonsense. Like the nonsense Mao's propaganda
ministers used to spew about factory production during his "great leap forward" fiasco...
Your final 3 points completely negated the rest of your argument. It may be better to say that China has the potential to be an innovative juggernaut, but certain elements of Chinese culture and politics make innovation very difficult or maybe even impossible. One more thing you might add to Pothole #3 (the ethical issues) is the Chinese tendency to cheat (or steal) to achieve a goal, particularly in education and in the area of intellectual property.
The USA cheated the original inhabitants of their land, put them in reservations and supplying them with intoxicating drinks to stupefy them into nonresistant folks, and also destroying these once proud people. USA also cheated the Hawaiian people of their land. USA is now actually occupying Hawaii illegally. So is Guam. So righteous USA march on with its hypocritical human issues. Try asking the blacks and Hispanics about fairness in USA.
The one and only relevant point seems to be missing. China is a communist dictatorship and, therefore, cannot rise to super power status as such. Until that government is overthrown by the people, they will only get so far. If the government is not changed or overthrown, they will eventually implode. The natural state of ALL people is to be free.
In Chinese history, Chinese as a whole are happy only when they have strong loving kings and emperors; now is the time they do under CCP.
I think I got many CNN, BBC, "brainwash" kids spinning their heads right now.
Yea because Communist Party's mouthpieces such as People's Daily, Beijing Daily, Guangming Daily, Liberation Daily, Xinhua News Agency, China News Service and CCTV definitely DON'T try to brainwash you. If you want to see what really happens in China, try looking at the Epoch Times.
@True China
I understand there are people unhappy with CCP like Falunggong/Epoch time, but as a whole, the majority once poor welcome CCP.
@justsayin, you mimic exactly like your presidential candidate mitt romney. Calling Chinese a thief is not very wise, I believe the americans are themselves the greatest crook of ALL time. Look at the covert activities of the CIA and the underhanded dealings of your state department, check it out at the WIKILEADS. God bless Julian Assange. He exposed ALL the dirty tactics that the americans used. Your american presidents, past and present have a tendency to LIE. Look at Nixon, Clinton and Bush. These are the testimonies of the " integrity " of your u.s. government. I trust the Chinese government, more than self-righteous u.s. government. GOD bless China.
Sorry, but without an economy, the USA can only win the beginning of a war, but not the end of one – much like Germany's problem in WWII. Germany's economy didn't have the capacity to replace their advanced weaponry, so eventually they lost. For the same reasons, if we fought China today, we'd lose, eventually.
A timely reminder perhaps is this fact : -
Do you know that America did not get out ot the great depression at all. It was World war One which started in 1929, that saved USA from what would have been an unrecoverable and prolonged national financial disaster.
The great depression was said to be started by only a couple of very greedy Wall Street big time speculators. Can you imagine that happening! But the trading rules have sincechanged, so we are quite safe I thought – until Lehman Brothers and again Wall Street
Correction, I accidentally press submit before I could edit.
A timely reminder perhaps is this fact : -
Do you know that America did not get out ot the great depression at all. It was World war II, that saved USA from what would have been an unrecoverable and prolonged national financial disaster. America supplied the war machineries and later joined the war after pearl harbour got bombed.
The great depression in 1929 was said to be started by only a couple of very greedy Wall Street big time speculators. Can you imagine that happening! But the trading rules have sincechanged, so we are quite safe I thought – until Lehman Brothers and again Wall Street
The Chinese youths are pursuing better education and training, and more jobs are being
created as investments continue to pour into China. China's consumer base would become
the world's fastest growing – and the largest.
Millions of cars and thousands of aircrafts, particularly, are expected from China within
this decade.
A car market normally saturates at more than 500 cars per 1000 people,
and by that measure, China is several decades away from saturation. It is currently only
around 25 cars per 1000 people. But not just oil guzzlers, battery operated cars are now
going to be the new thing in China.
Foreign car manufacturers better get ready for China, as it will be the world’s
largest car market of the future.
I see China taking the new initiative to invigorate the lack lustre global economy in the next few year.
China's ballooning consumer demands would also help businesses all over Asia – and to a
certain extend US and the EU too.
So, Mr President- to= be, dont you forget this fact !
China like to have nice sincere friends , "you talk nice to me, I will be nice to you too " Get it?
顶！
How about China's destruction of wildlife?
How about China's medieval set up animal fights.
How about illegal import of ivory.
How about the simple minded way of thinking that bones of Tigers can make you healthy or stronger.
And this is only about aninal welfare, let alone how China deals with humans disagreeing with the Chinese governemnt.
Let's ask Nepal. The world would be a better place without China.
Thank you very much.
While I sympathise with the endangered tigers, I think as more western medicines are being used in China, because new generation of Chinese become more exposed to western medicines, old cures using tiger bones and rhino horns would become outdated.
Already, sharkfin soup is a NO NO in Chinese weddings in China, l was told.
Anyway, I think global warming, caused by random use of fossil fuel in USA, will eventually kill fastermore tigers and other endangered animals in the jungle than Chinese traditional tiger bone medicines would.
我来说 “好好学习，天天向上！”
China cannot afford to democratise until its economy has a firmer footing. China has learnt a lession from the collapse of the Soviet Union – where the citizens in Russia and othe former Soviet states face severe food and and job shortages. Their economies were in tatters, until now for some of the states.
Eventually, I see a socialist democracy in China in 30 years time. But not any time sooner. Especially when Chinese people can see for themselves that American style democracry is ...... very unsuitable for good economics.
China cannot continue to exist in its current form.
You're right for a variety of reasons. The main reason, though, is that "consumerism" as a model for economic
well being is not sustainable when population overtakes availability of natural resources. China has long since
been too populous. All the "innovation", all the technical expertise, all the "brain power" in the world can't keep
China going as it is now (or the U.S. either, for that matter) It won't be long before a "consumption-resource-population" tipping point is reached...
Then the real tigers, the paper tigers, real bears and circus bears will gobble up everything that's between
them and finally they'll gobble up each other...
China is a living proof of saying "stealing can be successful too". This is an end of innovation era. Welcome to Dark Age.
" This is an end of innovation era. Welcome to Dark Age."
Ed, is this how common Americans rationalise? Pity America !
Using your pity on workers at Foxconn Plants in China. They are working, eating, and sh***ting at them same place.
Losers always blame on other than look at the issues for themselves – do you consider yourself “stealing” when you learn from school or others? Its easy to blame on China as a scapegoat due to our domestic issues – high unemployment rate (blame on cheap Chinese labor to take on jobs no Americans want); high national debt (blame on China keeps buying our treasuries and finance our beyond the means consuming habits); manipulation of currency (well, America is actually the biggest currency manipulator of keeping printing money while stockpiling gold)…all these issues are created by ourselves or our capitalistic system – look at the demise of Bear Stern and Lehman Brothers, sub-prime housing market, educational system, medicare, wars in the middle east, personal debts, politics…..can we all blame on China?
A very famous quote from that Mormon president hopeful?
America is somewhat also guilty of stealing – Chinese brains. Which you find plenty of them in NASA .
So when you sell a fighter jet you expect it to be copied, sooner or later. The Russians are doing it too. One day America may have to copy China technology too – who knows. Remember the Chinese built the fastest train in a short period of time. Ok its still not a completely safe train, but still it is the fastest. Never underestimate China or overblow your AmericaN horn too often. The world is evolving, and new technology is changing sides. China now has the money to reinvent and innovate like never before.
Chinese brains? Are they Chinese American? Ever wonder why they are rather work for the USA than China? They have to be a US citizen to be work for NASA.
Oh, working for in NASA isn't that making them a communist traitor? either that or they are spies then again that making them stealing/hacking.
So you can't trust your own citizens. I bet you are frightened of your own shadow.
Your Republican president hopeful is playing to the crowd. He knows you all just love to hear USA talk tough with China.
No wonder the 14 trillion dollars national debt ! Wasted by the same people you loved to quote.
"stealing" technology is smarter than wasting 14 trillion dollars in wars that nobody wants to get involved in!
"stealing" technology is smarter than wasting trillions of dollars in wars that nobody wants to get involved in!
Finally admitting to stealing technology, thank you. Remember stealing not the same with innovation.
"stealing" –
" " just means quoting you. Does not mean admission of guilt or wrong.
I am very sure killing is more sinful than stealing. Remember Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, assasinations of South American leaders.
Why is ppl talking about nukes on here?
Where,oh where is Al Gore?
Stiffled, gagged and tied to a chair in an American neo-con cellar that was built and paid for with Chinese money
by a bunch of American Corporate oligarchs and corrupt Chinese CCP fools who want to achieve the "American
standard of living" before China implodes upon itself...
Both China and the U.S. have plenty of "issues" in their own countries that they each need to be working on.
Neither one is perfect.
Strange game, the only way to win is not to play
China will flood when the top 6 dams are hit with cruise missiles fired by US ships or subs from direction of Taiwan. That will trip the 10,000 dams below. China will wash to the sea as planned in the 1930's. The dams are mostly bad so it will happen anyway. About 500 million mostly poor Chinese will die, much to the relief of China. We will be told differently. Learn to Kowtow this time and forget it. If rain is good in spring, it will happen.,
A cruise missile would bounce off one of those dams like it was a BB.
And what's with all the animosity? Have you ever traveled anywhere and met people from around the world?
You are talking about killing people. What does that make you? Here we are talking about innovations. If only your mother knew, she would have told your father to go to the bathroom.
The only thing China is innovative about is stealing other peoples ideas and mass marketing it as their own
China is a totalitarian society, and they must control (and restrict) all information and maintain considerable isolation, in order to maintain control over their citizens and in order to maintain their narrow-minded world view.
What do you think will happen when the 1.5 billion citizens of China get wind of what has been and is happening in the world?
Surely this wouldn’t be good for the relative few, who control and rule China.
So how is American democracy, freedom of speech, human rights blah blah .... benefit USA citizens, really?
What about this -
9.1 % unemployed Americans?
bankrupt state governments ?
a national debt of mindboggling US$14 trillion ?
15% Americans living in abject poverty ?
overdue upgrading of basic infrastructures like public housing for the poor, roads and bridges ?
people trapped in home mortgages – because they were encouraged to buy houses that they really cannot afford to ?
why USA needs to borrow US$1.3 trillion from a communist country – China ?
and what about this: -
the circus show put up by the Republican Congress to resist raising America's debt default , and risking
pension payouts being stopped and suffering the retirees ..........this is good American democracy?
I am for democracry, but never for cowboy Democracy
So many abusive abrasive loudmouths, ignorant not only about other peolples history but even their own.
Listen, do not manufacture "facts" to support your emotional views, open yourselves up to other points of view, calm down, think fairly. You might end up being a happpier well adjusted person. Do it.
Your "credibility" to the "world" doesn't matter if you're the biggest dog, and China knows that. They don't care if they break a few eggs in the interim while making this omelet.
Dear John Kao. Let me tell you who today's world works. It makes no difference, on how innovative Chinese are. Today, in globalized economy, innovative idea generated somewhere in USA, by USA engineer, in the matter of seconds gets shared in multinational organization across the whole globe, across the whole organization. Most of the benefits, most of the productivity increases due to the idea will go to Chinese workers of this multinational organization. The USA engineer, if lucky, will double his salary. That is all.
the world allows the chinese to subjugate their people as slaves & pacifies them with access to intellectual property stolen from the west.
I rather be a happy Chinese slave than a starving Indian "free".
This discussion about innovation is nothing but the tail wagging the dog. The main problem with the USA is that the average American is becoming poorer and less educated than prior generations. Given that the economic engine is more aligned with consumer consumption growth as opposed to actually producing something of real value, only further exacerbates the decline of the US. The "innovators" in the US will be innovating for those markets that can pay the most for their products, and hence, those markets will benefit first from the technology and/or service. If China displaces the US in this capacity, then China will be the net beneficiary of the innovation ... period. The last and most important point is that when you are the number one market, you get to set the rules and nobody wants to be excluded from access to that market ... so ... figure it out from there ....
The customer is always right. People who innovates think of monetary rewards. So do not think that the innovators is doing it for free, just to to contribute to mankind.
i'mgoingtocarvelettersontoherskin
it'sGoingtoSay,"Whycan'TyoushowMeRespect?Idon'tEvenKnowyou"
AfterThisIwillCommitSuicide,ButSheWillKnowHowLifeIsLikeOnTheOtherSide-HowItisLikeToLiveWhenYouhaveNothingToLiveFor.
The fastest way to cure US economy ill is to start another major war somewhere, a war similiar to the Vietnam War scale. \Wars of this scale please this self interest group of millionaires and billionaires who are in
the business of supply weapons, fighter jets, bombs, ammunitions, logistics etc.... They would be glad to employ
more workers.
This is one of the main reasons America is fighting meaningless, expensive war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Anyone who
objects to pulling out the troops has to be a party of the special interest group of millionaires and billionaires military manufacturers and suppliers.
Most US big companies are flushed with cash, but they are not employing more workers. It's political . All part of the Repulican scheme of things for 2012 elections. Which is to ensure President Obama gets the full blame, and not the big company bosses, for the stubborn high unemployment. QED.
USA's economy is war-based. Think how it got out from the great depression. Thats the economy lesson it has learned and so they it will always be using this strategy. USA is the world's largest arm merchant. That's innovation. CDS.Create, Destroy, Sell. CDS as in the Collateral Default Swap which has brought miseries to 99% of the people of this earth. But who cares, The death merchants are making lots of money.
china only seems to be progressing because the country is soooo backward. if they allowed their money to float to its realistic level, they would be bankrupt. when the try all they can and do not get the reward they want, WWIII will begin.
Take a look at your soup kitchen in los angeles and the homeless in new york, one from a third world would never believe what they see. American democracy, human rights and economic miracle is just a packaging for the outsider to admire. The truth is far from it. Check it out yourself. I got stunned when I saw those poverty stricken americans queuing up at the soup kitchen in los angeles. The u.s. bureau of census have declared that they are 42.6 million americans who live below the poverty line. Those are not mexicans or hispanics, blacks but white americans., probably anglo-saxons. These self rigtheous americans should take a serious look at themselves, rather than condenming others.
I think China is doing what China should do now. They have tons of money, investing in higher education, infrastructure, roads, trains etc. They have already stealth Jet fighters, Air-craft carrier, Nuclear weapon and space technology. Most of the technologies are home made. So it is not convincing any more (from western countries) to say China is a paper tiger. Though I believe that Europe & USA is still ahead in technology, only the economic situation is getting worse. But naturally negative side is also there in China: Bribes, corruption, intellectual property violation, fake commodities, devastating labour situation and most dangerously COMMUNIST DICTATORSHIP. But there is no denial that it is only CHINA from Asia that can challenge Europe and USA. It is good to be honest and give some credit for the rise of China. It is possible that ego of some people is getting hurt by enormous economic rise and moderate technological rise of China and they invented the word "paper tiger".
Just as with everything in and about China, the future is unpredictable. My years of experience with and in China has shown that it's not over until it's over. Whatever you think could happen, no one can tell because of the maze of forces at play and most of them are hidden, possibly never to be exposed. At times the level of manipulations going on in the background is enough to write a novel. However as China gains and realizes its influence, the inherent underlying thinking of the Chinese "Use what you have, take what you can", will prevail and that outcome remains to be seen. The Art of War, 孫子Sun Tsu, is seen everyday, from the street vendor to the corporate exec in China.
So corporate America is an angel. CDO's and CDS's are the innovations of angelic USA. These are the real WMD-weapons of mass destruction. These inventions of the Americans have destroyed countless people including their own people and caused so much miseries to so many countries. Worse than nuclear bombs.
Everyone looks forward to seeing China's economy fall over the cliff. So many detractors imagine the "dark and hidden danger" in China's economy.
These are all illusionary minds at work.
If you talk about the dangers of China economy to any American entreprueners of MNC about their business in China, it's likely he will say to you " Where were you all these recent years?" "Hey Chinese people no longer wear straw hats or Mao Tse Tong jackets and caps... you know"
In case you are out of touch let me update you. Chinese women are wearing PRADAs, and little boys in Shanghai are waving tablets, not that little red book anymore. "Oh, you DIDNT KNOW THAT?"
Delusional , not illusionary. Entrepreneurs, spelled correctly, does in fact tend to describe a set of people who aren't delusional. However, most of the people posting here are delusional and not entrepreneurs. I don't quite wonder if these responses that seem to come from people who speak Chinese and not English share more in common with the dubious majority.
agrtwt means angry with the world. Well I feel sooo0 sorry for you. You must be suffering for this degradation of the western society. Nothing is permanent. Only change is permanent.
China will be the next bubble to burst. 99 percent of the workers who make our flat screen TVs and smart phone can't even move their families to the towns where they work, much less afford to buy one of the products they build for themselves.
Workers' paradise? I don't think so. Counter revolution? Not a question of if, but of when.
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