Editor's Note: Melissa Labonte is an assistant professor of political science at Fordham University. Peter Romaniuk is an associate professor of political science at John Jay College of Criminal Justice.
By Melissa Labonte and Peter Romaniuk – Special to CNN
Recently, after militants undertook a 20-hour assault on the U.S. embassy and NATO compound in Kabul, U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan, Ryan Crocker, downplayed the implications. “This really is not a very big deal,” he said, adding that, “If that’s the best they can do, I think it’s actually a statement of their weakness.” Following the recent assassination of Burhanuddin Rabbani, former Afghan President and leader of the government’s efforts to negotiate peace with the Taliban, the ambassador should rethink his poorly chosen words.
The uptick in violence in Afghanistan includes multiple attacks in the capital (the British Council, the Inter-Continental Hotel, and the Afghan Defense Ministry), as well as the recent assassinations of four of President Hamid Karzai’s closest advisers: his half-brother, Ahmed Wali Karzai; Kandahar city mayor, Ghulam Haidar Hameedi; long-time mentor, Jan Mohammad Khan, and outspoken Taliban opponent, Mohammed Daud Daud. These events have occurred against the backdrop of a particularly deadly summer for U.S. forces – at 70, U.S. casualties in August set a record for any month in America’s near-decade long engagement. By any measure, the current situation in Afghanistan is a very big deal.
Crocker’s bravado echoes U.S. and NATO attempts to demonstrate a return on the massive investment of blood and treasure in Afghanistan. An April 2011 Pentagon report noted the “tangible progress” allied forces have made in eroding enemy morale and momentum. The commanding officer of Regional Command East, Major General Daniel Allyn, recently claimed that Afghan government and security forces in his area “continue to grow in capability and confidence.” And, in commemorating the tenth anniversary of 9/11 in Kabul, General John Allen, international force commander spoke of having “reversed the momentum of the insurgents … I can say with confidence that, together, we’re on the path of success in Afghanistan.”
True, levels of insurgent violence have dropped across much of Afghanistan, especially the southern provinces of Kandahar and Helmand, where most of the surge troops have been deployed. But these deployments have merely displaced the violence, shifting the conflict to other regions or to some point of time in the future as U.S. and allied troops withdraw. Under these conditions, the gap between U.S. rhetoric and Afghan reality is unsustainable, revealing yet again the shortcomings of American strategic thinking about Afghanistan.
Beyond the defeat of al Qaeda, U.S. objectives in Afghanistan have meandered from marginalizing powerful actors like the Taliban, to state-building, to counter-insurgency (COIN), to decapitation (hence, the preponderance of drone strikes in the Obama era) and, most recently, to embracing reconciliation and negotiation with the Taliban.
Beneath this flip-flopping, a worrisome fact remains: America has misidentified its core interests in the region. The U.S. has consistently set its political and military objectives very high. It has assumed that Afghanistan is a place where a stable, democratic state can be readily built with infusions of foreign aid. The prevailing COIN strategy has become orthodoxy despite the absence of reliable local partners and the knowledge that communities will remain under threat from warlords and the Taliban long after American and allied troops leave Afghanistan.
Tough talk this week from outgoing Joint Chiefs Chairman, Admiral Mike Mullen, who charged Pakistan with supporting the Taliban-linked group responsible for much of the recent violence in Kabul, the Haqqani network, risks exacerbating the trend of strategic overreach. As long as America’s aims in this war remain fuzzily defined, the conflict will become further protracted. Policymakers once again need to ask themselves: What do we want to achieve in Afghanistan? This time, they also must ask: What can we reasonably expect to achieve?
The U.S. long ago accepted that “victory” in Afghanistan would be unlike any other military “victory.” Commenting in 2010 on whether U.S. goals in Afghanistan could be achieved, Major General Bill Mayville, former chief of operations for General Stanley McChrystal, noted “It’s not going to look like a win, smell like a win or taste like a win.” What we now face in Afghanistan is a failing state, under feckless leadership, plagued by a chronic insurgency.
Policymakers and military planners should frankly assess why its current strategy has yielded only more fighting over time and whether America’s best bet for ensuring stability lies not on the battlefield but in establishing far more limited and pragmatic goals for what success should look like in Afghanistan. In 2009, the Obama administration debated between supporting COIN and a more limited strategy focused on counterterrorism. That latter option should be revisited as U.S. and NATO troops withdraw to ensure that Afghanistan does not once again become an exporter of international terrorism. That’s less than what America and its allies have aimed for to date, but it would indeed be a big deal.
The views expressed in this article are solely those of Melissa Labonte and Peter Romaniuk.
© 2012 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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goal – to get out now
Karzai’s government is not viable. Don’t use time and resources!
please read: don't WASTE time....
MORNING FROM LAHORE"A LOST WAR" AND EASY ESCAPE HA HA"dear Amercians really i cant understand why u people are so stupid and wasting u tax $,( 400 billion$ can move u in a space in a home), on a war on mountains only, really useless and has no end and reason for u to fight it let them run their own country whats wrong in it they dont wana run usa they wana run their own country which is AFG, although u are intelligent no doubt in it that how can any country act against its own spy agency?can usa act against CIA?can India act against RAW?can israeal act against MOSAD?come on guys be logical we people are suffering more in this war of terror pls try to understand u cant gain any thing by not making Pakistan on yours side u will rather aggravate the situation as u can,t do any thing in the reagin without pakistan be sure about it.even u are a super power guys why u wana create more of your enemies?,have u ever thought that why chines and Russian wana more and more friendly towards Pakistan?they know the geopolitical importance of pakistan and know what pak can do for the reagion we did,t say that we cant act against any terrorist but let the time to be of ours choice not of yours we are already stretched al lot army wise any othere explanation u(my american friends) need pls feel free to ask.thanks love to Pakistan and love to china and some love to usa if u wana less less less
HI"A LOST WAR" AND EASY ESCAPE HA HA"dear Amercians really i cant understand why u people are so stupid and wasting u tax $,( 400 billion$ can move u in a space in a home), on a war on mountains only, really useless and has no end and reason for u to fight it let them run their own country whats wrong in it they dont wana run usa they wana run their own country which is AFG, although u are intelligent no doubt in it that how can any country act against its own spy agency?can usa act against CIA?can India act against RAW?can israeal act against MOSAD?come on guys be logical we people are suffering more in this war of terror pls try to understand u cant gain any thing by not making Pakistan on yours side u will rather aggravate the situation as u can,t do any thing in the reagin without pakistan be sure about it.even u are a super power guys why u wana create more of your enemies?,have u ever thought that why chines and Russian wana more and more friendly towards Pakistan?they know the geopolitical importance of pakistan and know what pak can do for the reagion we did,t say that we cant act against any terrorist but let the time to be of ours choice not of yours we are already stretched al lot army wise any othere explanation u(my american friends) need pls feel free to ask.thanks love to Pakistan and love to china and some love to usa if u wana less less less
With friends like Pakistan, who needs enemies?
Goal should have been to fix the problem called Taliban. Not occupying Afganistan – since it is not the right thing to do. Talibans on the other hand – if left alone – will do what they have done in past – harbour a terrorist group like Al Qaida – that will attack anyone that don't want to follow their brand of Islam.
Remember 10 years back that has happened. America squandered an unique opportunity by going into Iraq – instead they shld have focused and solveed afganistan.
Leaving Afganistan they way it is now will lead to another terrorist attack and somone has to go in again.
Agreed. The original goal was to get Osama bin Laden. Done. It's time to declare victory and come home. If that government cannot survive after all this time, then it doesn't deserve to.
Saddam is gone too. Why are we unwilling to declare victory?
absolutely. It is time to leave. We have wasted too much time on the hill, while countries like India have gained many of our jobs and much in treasure. These same coutnries want us to be there to fight their war. Let them deal with Pakistan, and lets see who ever gets to stablize it. This is not our problem to resolve
We're unwilling to declare victory and leave because the corporations and other war profiteers that started this business venture are still raking in the profits and they will do their best to ensure it never ends.
simple u idiot...because we LOST both of these stupd skirmishes. U r an idiot that says the time to get out is now...agreed on that, but we LOST the wars!!!
Agree,
Stop giving US tax payers' money (by borrowing) to Pakistan to help grow more terrorists. Let them destroy themselves by their own religious fundamentalism and hatred, without blaming the Westerners. That is the best way to go. Enough is enough with Pakistan, the epicenter of world's most dangerous religious cults and enemies of world humanity and peace. Religious hatred and bigotry have no place n earth.
The Americans are in Afghanistan not because that they love the afghan people , but now they are there , yes americans can leave and call it a victory but it won't be a victory and it will be different from leaving Vitnam and be ready for hard realty not just in afghanista and pakista but in meadle est and north africa also.
kdarkassian, am I supposed to take you seriously?
I second the motion.
We already achieved the goal, time to bring our troops home
tell those draft dodgers cheney and bush to pick up a weapon and lock and load. let them go try to finish this BS. bring our troops home NOW
AGREE ! COME HOME!
Agree...get out now! Use the money to help citizens here-we believe in democracy here. We are perfect recipients for the Aid.
Our goal in this instance is to dismantle the Al Quaida terrorist network. It is necessary to have a base of operations near the enemy. The enemy is in Pakistan, therefore we are in Afghanistan. If the Pakistanis would allow it, we would be there instead.
I believe the administration embarked on a plan that has a finite time for: development of an Afghan government, NATO / US presence, and a then a structured withdrawal. One of the goals is to avoid the rapid retreat and its consequences as demonstrated by our Viet Nam experience. Afghans must solve their governing issues – we have given them a limited time and opportunity to put their solution in place, unlike the previous administration which appeared to be willing to stay and sacrifice lives and treasure until the situation became untenable and then pull out in panic. We and the rest of the world have seen the results of 'Super Powers' invading other nations and trying to control a restive population without Draconian measures (and even those have failed to work recently, see Israel, Soviet Union, etc.). I think we have chosen the best of all the rather poor choices available to us – limiting our engagement and a planned withdrawal after giving the Afghans a reasonable chance to forge a government.
You make a good case. I wonder if we would be better off in this part of the world being feared instead of respected/loved. Polls show that 90% of Afghan never heard of 9/11, and don't believe it when they are told. If we came in after 9/11 and blew the hell out of the place and then left, we would have hundreds of Billions to use for protection and quality of life. A better deal for us I think.
Hello? Vietnam stabilized itself shortly after we pulled out. Yes, it's a Communist government, but its citizens live peacefully and we have trade agreemens with them. Will that happen in Afghanistan? Maybe. Maybe not. We have to quit enabling the population to depend on us for security. We need to leave that country to itself.
Get the hell out of there. Make it a province of Pakistan and move unhappy Afghans to India.
and those Persian speakers to Iran!
The answer to the above question is quite simple and that is to get the Karzai regime and the Taliban together for peace talks and then get out of there just like the Russians did back in 1989!!! Again I want to reiterate the fact that Afghanistan belongs to the Afghans and nobody else!!!
The Afghans are made up of Pashtuns, Tajiks, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Balochs etc....
Each ethnic group would be better off on its own!
and more then half are Pashtuns, the rest are just people who immigrated. this isn't the u.s and it can't be a democracy.
Right Jason, the Pashtuns could have their own "Islamic Emirate of Pashtunistan" and the rest speaks Persian dialects.
Governments are founded and run by humans through elections or not. Therefore the 'American' goal in Afghanistan is the goals of GW Bush and B Obama instead of the all America's majority. The question should be answered by them personally.
I'm sure there are many Americans don't want to waste lives and moneys in the first place, but they can do nothing and can only sit and watch. Sincerely I don't know the true value and mechanism, if effective, of the democratically elected US government. Somebody let me know please. Oh, no troll please, I'm serious.
Kailim, these questions are far too complex. And trying to answer them appears to be an exercise in frustration. So I don't think there are any correct or realistic answers. But there are however always choices. When it comes to countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt, Lybia, Syria, Somalia, Iran, North Korea, Cuba, etc, etc, and the problems that might arise from them, we always have the simple choice of either doing something, or nothing. And one thing I can point out is that there isn't a country in this world with a genuine government that would pass a declaration of war against the US. There are of course factions that would readily wage war against the US, and oddly enough, most, if not all of these can be found in countries that lack a genuine government. So if any of these factions were deemed to become a viable or potential threat to your country what would you do? Nothing ? Or something?
FIRST QUESTION IS ? WHAT THE HELL U ARE DOING OVER THERE CAN ANY REASONABLE AMERICAN AND THIS?
“It’s not going to look like a win, smell like a win or taste like a win.” funny!!! Get the hell out and limit your ambitions. Pak is a nuclear state with sixth largest population on the earth, its not Iraq or Afghanistan. Besides, Russia is roaring as a wounded lion to avenge 80s and China would never let US succeed in the region. Enough of War hysteria and waste of tax payers money. Stop breading (and later eliminating) militancy. Let there be peace in the World.
HEY"A LOST WAR" AND EASY ESCAPE HA HA"dear Amercians really i cant understand why u people are so stupid and wasting u tax $,( 400 billion$ can move u in a space in a home), on a war on mountains only, really useless and has no end and reason for u to fight it let them run their own country whats wrong in it they dont wana run usa they wana run their own country which is AFG, although u are intelligent no doubt in it that how can any country act against its own spy agency?can usa act against CIA?can India act against RAW?can israeal act against MOSAD?come on guys be logical we people are suffering more in this war of terror pls try to understand u cant gain any thing by not making Pakistan on yours side u will rather aggravate the situation as u can,t do any thing in the reagin without pakistan be sure about it.even u are a super power guys why u wana create more of your enemies?,have u ever thought that why chines and Russian wana more and more friendly towards Pakistan?they know the geopolitical importance of pakistan and know what pak can do for the reagion we did,t say that we cant act against any terrorist but let the time to be of ours choice not of yours we are already stretched al lot army wise any othere explanation u(my american friends) need pls feel free to ask.thanks love to Pakistan and love to china and some love to usa if u wana less less less
Ali, try to look at it this way, and yes, this will be somewhat of a radical example.
You and your family live in your home. Your brother moves in and starts shooting at my family and friends. You tell your brother to stop and get out! But he ignores you.
What do I do? Nothing? Let my family and friends get shot?!? NOT GONNA HAPPEN BUDDY.
I'll give you only 2 options. I'm either gonna try to come into your house and take your brother out (and God be with you and your family) or, I'm just gonna blow your whole house down with the press of a button and call it a day. And if you think this is that far fetched, just think about what happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
TO GET OUT TOMORROW
AHA"A LOST WAR" AND EASY ESCAPE HA HA"dear Amercians really i cant understand why u people are so stupid and wasting u tax $,( 400 billion$ can move u in a space in a home), on a war on mountains only, really useless and has no end and reason for u to fight it let them run their own country whats wrong in it they dont wana run usa they wana run their own country which is AFG, although u are intelligent no doubt in it that how can any country act against its own spy agency?can usa act against CIA?can India act against RAW?can israeal act against MOSAD?come on guys be logical we people are suffering more in this war of terror pls try to understand u cant gain any thing by not making Pakistan on yours side u will rather aggravate the situation as u can,t do any thing in the reagin without pakistan be sure about it.even u are a super power guys why u wana create more of your enemies?,have u ever thought that why chines and Russian wana more and more friendly towards Pakistan?they know the geopolitical importance of pakistan and know what pak can do for the reagion we did,t say that we cant act against any terrorist but let the time to be of ours choice not of yours we are already stretched al lot army wise any othere explanation u(my american friends) need pls feel free to ask.thanks love to Pakistan and love to china and some love to usa if u wana less less less
Leave.
"A LOST WAR" AND EASY ESCAPE HA HA"dear Amercians really i cant understand why u people are so stupid and wasting u tax $,( 400 billion$ can move u in a space in a home), on a war on mountains only, really useless and has no end and reason for u to fight it let them run their own country whats wrong in it they dont wana run usa they wana run their own country which is AFG, although u are intelligent no doubt in it that how can any country act against its own spy agency?can usa act against CIA?can India act against RAW?can israeal act against MOSAD?come on guys be logical we people are suffering more in this war of terror pls try to understand u cant gain any thing by not making Pakistan on yours side u will rather aggravate the situation as u can,t do any thing in the reagin without pakistan be sure about it.even u are a super power guys why u wana create more of your enemies?,have u ever thought that why chines and Russian wana more and more friendly towards Pakistan?they know the geopolitical importance of pakistan and know what pak can do for the reagion we did,t say that we cant act against any terrorist but let the time to be of ours choice not of yours we are already stretched al lot army wise any othere explanation u(my american friends) need pls feel free to ask.thanks love to Pakistan and love to china and some love to usa if u wana less less less
It's simple! Get out right away. Then hang GWB and the GOP for abandoning and prolonging this war to start their illegitimate Iraqi war.
Hello again Richard,With all respect, I find your claim that I did not rboutle to read the links you enclosed simply because I disagree with you to be a bit disingenuous. Our target is NOT the farmers, but the warlords who control the farmers and whom mandate the cultivation of poppies because it is profitable for them.If cotton or 'pomegranites' (sic)were more profitable, the warlordswould be growing them, no? In fact, they are still growing poppies, hemp and marijuana because the finances work for them..which is why the pro-US warlords keep doing so and are being left to do so.The retail price of heroin or other opiates versus the wholesale price of the poppies, etc. really doesn't enter into this discussion regardless, since the growers don't share in the processing or retail end of the trade anyway. However, the Taliban does...at least in the processing and distribution end of things. And that's whom we have to cut the money flow to in order to win. I'm frankly surprised you don't see it that way.Our purchasing the crops in Afghanistan, destroying the fields of anyone not selling to us and destroying the processing factories in Pakistan accomplishes this admirably.It also, as I mentioned, puts a major source of the raw material for some controlled substances under our control rather than the Mafia, the Union Corse or similar drug cartels, a not inconsiderable side benefit.Quod Et Demonstradum, sir. Thank you for dropping by, and for your interest.All Best,ff
It sure would be helpful if we could find a way to halt the multi-billion dollar opium trade in Afghanistan, which is trafficked through Pakistan, with the aid, support and protection of the governments of both countries.
We'd be doing the entire world a great deal of good, by preventing massive amounts of heroine and other opium derivates off of our streets and out of the hands of our children.
Not to mention the violence this would prevent.
Given the hold that the opium trade has on these countries (and the corruption it engenders), however, I don't see how we're going to accomplish this.
Isn’t Afghanistan just another drug-state, like Mexico and Columbia, with the poor and decent people being held hostage by evil drug-lords and the officials, who protect them?
Isn’t the multi-billion dollar opium trade and the corruption it engenders the real issue in Afghanistan?
How do we stop this?
That is why America is there. The USA wants control of the poppy fields so the CIA can flood the US market with heroin.
Get out and nuke the entire populace. Anyone else sick of hearing about Afghanistan and think it's a lost cause?
GTFO. Next question?
OIC (Organization of Islamic Countries) can be a real help in this regard. I'm sure Taliban would agree to the role of OIC in Afghanistan. The first phase should be withdrawal of the NATO forces from Afghanistan (all together); Second phase should be to let a joint force made up of Muslim soldiers from the OIC forces (possibly led by Turkey) take over from the NATO. Third phase should be the disarmament of all the warlords and their militias; and Fourth and last phase should be an election held under the umbrella of UN. But for all this to work, CIA must leave along with the NATO withdrawal. It is my strong belief that the CIA is the major culprit of all the mess in that region.
BTW while hightailing out of Afghanistan, USA should hand over the baton of global leadership to China. They have been watching American/Nato forces operate out of Afghanistan and their equipment and capabilities without spending a penny on R&D. It was in their backyard!!! China, during the last ten years, also sharpened their military skills and developed hi tech armaments to supplement it. They are now well positioned to take over the global leadership role financially, economically and militarily.
Why are politicians so far behind the curve on this and other issues? Most seem to say what seems obvious – get out quickly and stop wasting lives and dollars. Simple.
Kill Osama bin Laden.
Oh wait, we did that.... then why are we still there?
In related news: http://www.theonion.com/articles/historians-politely-remind-nation-to-check-whats-h,26183/
Afghanistan is called the "Graveyard of Empires" for a reason.
I think the US should take lessons from history that you can never win In this region. The problem is you can not scare them with the threat that you will send them to stone ages, they are already living in that age. These are mountain people who live below poverty line and used to living in caves. There are no bridges, roads, cars, electricity etc. that you have in developed or developing countries so there is nothing you can scare them with. These people live by the code of honor and die by it and that is the reason no power has ever subjugate them. The best way to deal with them is the British way i.e. to leave them alone and deal with them according to their traditions. They have their own way of life and you cannot impose your ways on them. It is an insult to the honor of a Pashtun to force to live a foreign lifestyle and he will die protecting that honor. At the same time the other problem is the loyalty issue i.e. during the day they can be your friends and at night your enemy. It is a dangerous region and only they understand each other. So my opinion is let Pakistan deal with this headache as it seems that Pakistanis are bent upon harboring their interest. US can keep a close eye on the situation as US can always point the gun at Pakistan should there be a trouble fomenting from that region that can be detrimental to US interest.
Get our troops out, and continue with ruthless drone attacks until they wise up or they are exterminated.
The sooner we finish the wars, the better for us. Regardless of the reasons we are staying there, it will feed more hate for America
To Unite all the Leaders of Aghanistan Districts, Groups, Etc and make a Treaty Agreement and Impeach Karzai.
-Nabil Ali
Teach the afgahn farmers to grow food instead of Opium!!!
Obviously you do not read much. In many parts of the world poppies are FOOD and that is why they grow it in drier soils. Our propaganda machine and those who wish constant ,endless wars want you to think that they grow it so they can be part of the drug trade. Uninformoed stupid people think that. You never had a poppie roll or poppie salad dressing ? Clinton put 2 million Mexican farmers out of business with his NAFTA so what are they to do ? Run for the US open border to get a job or to grow pot ? If the Afgan farmer has his poppie fields sprayed as I have seen on TV what is he to do ? Get those damn Americans that destroyed his way of life. Whether it is Afganistan or Mexico we seem to do much more harm than good-that is why we are so " loved".
I can't say what our goal is but I'm certain of our outcome. We will spend thousands of American lives trillions of borrowed American dollars fighting the longest war in American history. A few months after we leave there will be no idication we were ever there.
The goal should be to clear enough space to airlift some 15 million illegal immigrants. Mariachis in Afghanistan! They need it, more than they know. Start a rumor there is a Walmart in Islamabad, and watch the hi-jinks ensue ! Take that Pakistan.
U.S.Ambassador Crocker's dismissal of recent Afghan insurgents' actions is typical of U.S propaganda. He must have read the book about the U.S. us of propaganda during the Vietnam war with its wild negative statements about Viet Cong and North Vietnamese successes and vastly overstated reports of U.S. actions. If Crocker reads the book to its conclusion he likely will find that the outcome of the U.S./NATO war to conquer Afghanistan will be the same as what took place in Vietnam.
Goal should be to get out of this country stop wasting lives and money with an unwinnable situation.
We ( CIA) have been in Afghanistan since Vietnam-helping the tribes harvest Opium and assisting in its worldwide distribution with the help of other agencies,and have helped the tribal leaders maintain an active trade route thru that region. We actually have US forces protecting the opium fields. The tribes that pay for protection get it-and those that dont end up in news blurbs showing massive crops of opium and pot getting raided and burned.
We are there for Opium,Oil,minerals,Trade and to profit thru controlled capitalism.Nothing more-nothing less.
the Premise is all FALSE and excludes certain FACTS and notice NOTHING about OIL or Oil Pipelines is EVER mentioned by CNN or major U.S. Media but that's part of the propaganda , lie by Omission .
Brzezinski said in 90's " Control of Eurasia will lead to subordination of Africa " and he went on to say no other country should control Afghanistan , other than U.S. and this has been U.S. military goal since BEFORE 9/11 . Now when KARZAI was placed into office , backed by U.S. , his first move was to sign an OIL Pipeline Deal w/ Pakistani &Tajikistan .. and remember when TALIBAN went to Houston , Texas to UNOCAL HQ for OIL SEMINAR , of course not CNN ( Mouth piece for U.S. policy ) WON'T remind you of that FACT .
DRUGS , Billions still pour out of Afghanistan , in FACT according to UN , it increased 10X AFTER , AFTER Invasion = al ot of people making money , including BANKS .
Afghanistan is about PERMANENT BASES , Surrounding Iran & Russia , OIL pipelines ( oh , the HUGE CASPIAN OIL pipeline has been planned for long long long time in Afghanistan ) Poppy .. CNN propaganda won't mention ANY of these FACTS
Man are they stuck in Afghanistan and all the other places in the world where they have troops. If they pull everybody out and bring them home where will they all work ??? America must have wars because the military is a HUGE employer and economy stimulator.
Stop wasting tax payers money, bring our troops back home. Do it very soon.
Pay attention to our already fragile domestic economy.
Ditto!
To get the heck on out of Dodge. Another lost humiliating episode of US brinkmanship. With empty coffers and a President who has no clue what to do with the economy not to mention he is so dearly counting on the savings from this exit.
We also need to stay the heck out of the local politics of Pak -India love/hate affairs. India has never been a US ally and has always been a Russian Monkey boy and a back stabber who cannot be trusted like the recently concluded deal with the French over Boeing. Pakistan, remains Pakistan and only their Al-Lah can save them! Strategically, I would maintain the ties with Pak over India!
The USA needs to quit acting like they are HITLER. Come home to land of the free and home of the brave and get stoned on marijuana so we can give peace a chance to prevail.
Our goal should be to leave and and to make it plain that for every terrorist attack coming from that country,a city in that country will be carpet bombed for1 week.
What is the argument about? The U.S. has an insurvountable debt problem which will destroy the country faster than the talking heads can imagine. If we want to save our country we must cut the military budget and apopropriated funds to DOD by at least 50%. If we keep the CIA (at a reduced level) and FBI opeating we will be just as safe, if not more so than we are now, In order to do thhis w can't get out of Afghanistan and all of the middle east fast enough. The right time to do this was long ago. We also waste huge amounts of money supporting the terrorist state of Isreal and dictat orships throughout the world. Our only hope is go get out and get out now!!!!
There is NO achievable goal with the US remaining in Afghanistan. It was questionable at the start. We have disrupted the terrorist network, but can never elicit a necessary philosophical change in a culture that has not evolved. It's predominately an uneducated populace without necessary political conceptualizations that would propel it forward. There's not enough investment in democratic equality and suppression of religious tyranny. Our country had to go through the same process, but it starts with the people, not forced political change from an external international power. When they're ready, it'll happen, just as is being seen with other areas within the Arab world. Efforts and money would be best spend reinforcing defense postures within the U.S. Bring our troops home!!!
a very sensible analysis.
Having spent a ton of time in the Middle East, India, Pakistan, Indonesia and other not so hot spots, here is the short list:
1) Distance ourselves from Israeli Settlement expansion, if not the thugs that currently run Israel.
2) Get out of Afghanistan – let is nothing there, it is an economic wasteland.
3) Stop didling with Pakistan. Pakistan needs to accept that the regional power in Asia are China and India. We do not need to help prop up Pakistan's fantasy that they are a third power. They are not the country is a joke in the region. Yes, they have nukes, but that is a problem for India and China. China is partly to blame for their support of North Korea, so let them lead, The US in not at risk from these nukes, we do not need to bear the cost of protecting others.
islam is vile. Israel is free to build wherever it wants in Israel.
No problem with Settlements in Israel, the problem is the West Bank and Gaza. Israeli's are pigs and US support of these pigs creates collateral issues.
We are wasting American lives and 4-6 billion dollars a month on a war we cannot win.
Get out now! Let Afghanistan determine their own destiny.
The USA's goal is absolute victory over islam. Destruction of the enemy's will to fight. Liberation of all moslems from the vile clutches of islam.
Get the hell out and let them destroy themselves with the OPIUM. Our American lives are not worth the trouble. Bring the troops home and put them on our US Border instead of protecting other countries borders etc.
our goal? GTFO
Ron Paul 2012!
What's the difference between Obama, Romney, Bachmann and the falling U.S. dollar?
..the dollar was once worth something....
Goal? Really? Get out! Get out now! Afganistan has been and was a waste of America's men, $$, and materials.
America's goal..FEAR of the unknown ...911...We are fear driven. It is time we CHILL and focus on domestic issues instead of policing the world and let it police itself. We can always send in a drone to solve the issue..Vote Drone !
Neither drone strikes, nor Tomahawk missiles, can be the complete answer. Keep in mind that neither Saddam, nor Osama, were taken out by drones. Also keep in mind that Clinton's weak responses with Tomahawks helped embolden Osama and crew to dare 9/11.
Democracy is incompatable with Islam. All man made governments are considered to be an abomination in the Qu'ran (including democracy). The only governments ALLOWED to exist are Shiriah based governments (governments operating by Islamic law). This is why Democracy is a failure in Afghanistan, because the Afghan people dont believe in it. Wonder why 8 monthes after Egypt's uprising and there is still no democratic government operating? There is to much religious controversy over this, they dont believe in freedom and they dont believe in democracy. Middle eastern countries are either run by a Shiriah government (Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, ect), tyranal governments that claim they are secular but in fact base most of their laws off Islam (Syria, Algeria, Turkey, ect) and democratic governments in which the people elect Islamic militant groups which are widely viewed as terrorist organizations (Labanon, Palestine aut. ect)
Trying to make a democratic state out of Afghanistan is a waste of time, resources and American life. Another Islamic group will over-throw the government or infiltrate it.
Wonder why Muslims in LONDAN, ENGLAND have protested several times in the street saying "Freedom go to hell" and "Shiriah will rule Britain". It is because they do not believe in democracy and establishing Shiriah based governments is the goal of every Muslim by command in the Qu'ran.
Elizabeth you are wrong on many counts.The movement in Egypt was for democracy.The fact that military is trying to capture that movement in Egypt cannot be taken to mean that the people/muslims of egypt do not want democracy.hmm and Pakistan has democratic government and people/muslims take a very active part in democratic politics(and mullahs have never been elected into govt).
To get out of that huge waste of money and men....LEAVE NOW!!!
forget the men...they don't have enough brains or they would not be there much less wasting good oxygen. The money is the problem now and we do not have any to be wasting it there. Let the men (idiots) die...they are less mouths to feed here at home!
The U.S. long ago accepted that “victory” in Afghanistan would be unlike any other military “victory.” Commenting in 2010 on whether U.S. goals in Afghanistan could be achieved, Major General Bill Mayville, former chief of operations for General Stanley McChrystal, noted “It’s not going to look like a win, smell like a win or taste like a win.” What we now face in Afghanistan is a failing state, under feckless leadership, plagued by a chronic insurgency.
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Finally, a General officer who tells the truth. But because it comes so late, Mayville still deserves censure.
There is absolutely nothing the USA can do at this point to help Aghan, harm AQ in Afghan or help ourselves in Afghan. At any rate, China has now tied up all of the mineral deposits (which apart from poppy are the major assets in Afghan).
So, the best possible thing we can do for all concerned is to get out ASAP.
What are we fighting for ?
"What are we fighting for ?"......................
We are fighting for natural resources, especially oil. Anyone with eyes and a brain can see that. We promote charades about "freedom and democracy" to hide that fact.
Yep, the goal should be to get out now. I can write a bunch of stuff, but we've no business there anymore.
Our goal is to mimic the British Empire. Oh wait we're just carrying their water for them. why do it yourself when u can pimp out the U.S.A. We fought a revolutionary war to escape their control but now via the central banking system and military industrial complex do their bidding. Damn shame america.
the only goal of any kind for a failing america is to replace obama as soon as possible...
Agreed 1000%. And the goal should be to literally fry all this sand neggors with nukiller bums until every last one of them is dead and ashes!!!! Scortched earth...nothing left alive should be the policy of US troops. Git rid of OBOMA on the DOUUBLEE!!!
Don't tell anyone but those catridges look like crimped blanks to me. If they been shooting blanks all this time at these sand neggors, no wonder we're losin over there!!!
BARF. It's time to bring our troops home. They are dying needlessly. We have no business being over there in THEIR sand box.
Oboma is history by the end of 2011. History that should not be printed in US history books for ignorant brats in schools of the future to read about and stick up their middle fingers and thumb their assses at !!!
You are ignorant, racist bigot and what is exactly wrong with this country today.
I'm sure this has been pointed out before, but the caption "M16 American assault riffle cartridges" is wrong in so many ways. First off, they aren't referred to as M16 cartridges, its actually 5.56mm shell casings, and the ones shown in the picture are expended blank rounds, not live. And riffle? Who proof reads this stuff? So yes, again, this "news agency" has proved to be completely inept at providing the population with accurate information. CNN the most incompetent name in news.
hey smart guy...those shell cases are crimped blanks...looks like u ain't to smart to NOT notice that!
Umm, yes...i said they were blank rounds. Expended can be assumed from the fact that they are on the ground, and the fact that by the crimp they are noticeably darker, indicating powder discharge. They are still 5.56 casings. What are you trying to get at?
What should America's goal be in Afghanistan?
I think goal setting is supposed to happen before you start shooting. No?
i thought the war was over the fact the taliban would not turn over bin ladden,but now that he has been killed ,,its comes out they made him leave afganistan before we attacked them so what was the reason we are there that is the million dollar question maybe because russia and brittish couldnt win against them so we tried to show we was the great world power after many lives lost and our country on the verge of bieng bankrupt we done no better than them
Nice picture of some blank casings... I could have taken that in my back yard.
AMERICA: A symbol of freedom and a beacon of hope!
this is what we must fight for freedom for and give to lands from sea to shining sea! God Bless the U.S. and Obama!
It is always reasonable& & logical that objectives should be achieve able at personal level, family level & national as well global level. Anything beyond that is self-destructive. Resources get stretched out, density & strength are weakened & public start laughing on the aims of unachievable as other factors of nature, people, minds & diversity of thought work faster than planning strategy. Any long term solution becomes a long term problem. It is therefore worthwhile to accomplish the basics quickly like Obama strategy of killing terrorist heads, handover the reigns to local people & leave the rest for people to reform for the finale best they aspire. None can afford a hot war or chase for longer time. It wears out the war machine, country resources & above all fighting forces get tired & will to fight reduces as fighters develop attachment where the spend longer time & emotional leaning develop which factors are real & human. History of wars teaches but leaders do not learn as they just get voted to power without sound economic & historical perception. This is the reason why rotation of troop’s strategy is a tactical move by commanders but does not work long as Field commanders insist on longer stay for fighters become acquainted to local terrain & tactics. So the best is have quick over power, establish local control & stability with giving additional resources of aid to establish infrastructure, reforms of reasonable & effective administration, education, industry to improve economic lot which factors are the root cause of all upheave. Corruption free or virtual free, good law enforcement & laws, independent judiciary, people participation, industrial growth with energy development & effective infrastructure are the minimum needs to bolster up local to administer. In the growth there are loses as in families of growing children with a lot of waste & destruction & get stabilized with growth of responsible kids. People & public are no different as they too are part of community families. Hard liners policy may work but for shorter time as those who are victims or unhappy try to get away & reorganize which is just normal human behavior & nothing surprising. It therefore essential to let President of USA organize, carryout his job with liberty & resources as he is most responsible for America, its citizens & interests at home & abroad rather than criticizing, not providing the resources or make senseless debates to tell the adversaries that Americans do not agree with President which is worst of all tactics & strategies as well shatters the strength of a nation. Any constructive talk is good as it gives opportunity to power center to rethink & double check to commit more resources.
Simple as this. Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires. Some will say USA isnt an empire but it is in a sense. Its influence is long and it controls policies of many nations.
But look at this america should leave now for if they do then the loss will be little. The money saved can remove some of the debt and in the end millitary spending can end a little bit. Let someone else take the lead maybe china. And let america take a rest.
There is a time to keep fighting and there is a time to retreat. This is the time to retreat as it will be usefull and america will be able to fix itself and regroup comming back into the world stage stronger than what it is know.
Imagine billions of dollars invested in the weopon industry of this country and No war? This peaceful country America will never end WARS because untill obyists have their intrests politicians have their intrests. Even the whole nation is on food stamps. Even the Mexico will become the world power. Even thousands of innocents will die. They will not end the war.
While see the protest on the Wall st, India's GDP, Lines for the Food stamps . Recall the Article "garveyard of the empire". Seems like USA wants really to come out of the Afghanistan as he is looking for the Scap gaot as pakistan
No, the goal is to waste as much tax dollars as possible on a war that has been over for years and only continues due to the fact that we remain over there getting citizens angry. Much of the middle east feels that the United States is trying to use Imperial tactics to evolve the Middle East into a Western Influenced culture, and it is not going to happen, and this is why fighting continues.
GTFO
Extremism emanates out of Pakistan. They want to control Afganistan. Pure and simple. And the funding of this is coming from China who has stakes in mineral deposits in Afganistan. US on the other hand probably wants control of opium. There is enough money to be made to pay off the debts.
If we really want to get rid of AQ we would have gone to Pakistan. I would choose India any day over the two faced Pakistan.
Our goal in Afghanistan should be now what it was originally: To bring justice to the people who committed 9/11. For some reason we have taken on nation building. It is not only bound to fail, it is bound to create adverse consequences for years to come. Imagine if the French had interrupted the US Civil war; that they came here and stopped the fighting. All of the issues addressed by the war would still be outstanding. No external force can impose a solution. Whatever a country must go through internally to determine who it is cannot be short circuited by outsiders. If the US Civil War had not occurred, we would still be arguing the issues it resolved. A country must go through its own passages. Bringing justice to the perpetrators of 9/11 and destroying Al Qaeda does not require that we build Afghanistan as a stable country. We have weapons that can target individuals, without getting involved in politics, building infrastructure, establishing the right for women to go to school, or giving money to a corrupt Karzai. (Exactly what we did in Vietnam.)
Our goals in Afghanistan were met when Bin Laden was killed and the remaining culprits are being taken out with drones. As it turned out, the problem was in Pakistan. So any involvement with the government in Afghanistan is interference that postpones the day of reckoning for that country. We cannot short circuit the painful things they must go through. Nothing we build there is substantive; it wasn't built by the people there. It was imposed. It was fall by the wayside. We will think we failed. It this sense, we should hope it fails so the people who live there can do it the way they need it.
A simple example: If the Taliban tries to stop women from going to school, and we create the schools and they attend school, what happens when we leave? If the men who are there didn’t think it important enough to do, why do we think it will live after we leave? There are men in Afghanistan. They have weapons. They did nothing to protect their women and allow them to go to school. When we leave, it will revert back to that. At some point, people will decide enough is enough. They will take up arms against the Taliban and decide what they want. Woman may free themselves to learn to fight as well: An armed woman stopping a Taliban’s acid attack. All sorts of scenarios could develop. But not while we are there snuffing out indigenous responses to what happens to them.
We are blocking progress, not creating it. Every country must go through its own passage to where it will end up. We are wasting our time, resources, the souls of young men, and tax payers money on a task that is bound to fail – indeed must fail if the right outcome is to occur.
You are right on, it is the will of THEIR PEOPLE, not our Govt. I agree 100%
How many more US troops must give their blood for the Unocal pipeline?
We have Osama bin Laden dead. We have done the best we can to help support the country. I've seen many US and NATO troops give their life for this country, many of them our societies youngest and brightest. It has been a decade since we've gotten there, in that amount of time much of Europe was up to first rate standards after WWII. Freedom isn't free and it isn't dealt out by the USA. If it isn't the people's will then it isn't legitimate. They support the Taliban, or at the least allow them to operate. It is no longer our fight. Time to come home.
The so-called War on Terror is a fraud. As the majority of people are now aware, 9/11 was a classic stand-down, false flag operation carried out by traitors based within the US. The whole notion that spending hundreds of billions of dollars invading and occupying Afghanistan in order to fight against a group that supposedly consists of several dozen people, who can be based almost anywhere, is clearly idiotic. The real reason for going into Afghanistan was control and theft of resources. It's time to end this criminal adventure.
Get out ASAP . Have we not bled enough fine men and treasure FOR NOTHING ? Stop endless and all wars – period. We are bankrupt because of it . The poor people on SS did not cause our bankrupcy . Our sad state of affairs was caused by corrupt politicians like McCain, banksters on Wall Street , endless stupid wars, shipment of our jobs to China, open borders, importation of foreign workers on visas to lower our wages.
Ah well, Dr. North ( EU Referendum) is an old friend, an dI'd awlays had a good relationship with him before but for some reason this particular subject made him bats and incredibly ill-mannered.He's simply wrong on this one,but I don't take it personally.I've awlays agreed with Cicero's injunction that the sinews of war are unlimited money. Cut off the money, you almost awlays win the war.I doubt we will deal with Iran during an Obama administration short of them passing a nuke on to one of the Hezbollah cells here in America, taking out a city and being linked to it.However,I would not be surprised if the Israelis took matters into their own hands here,even if it involves using nukes. I would if I were in their place, and I think the new govrnment coming in will be a lot less solicitous of America's foreign policy goals and much more concerned with their own survival.The frustrating thing is that dealing with Iran now would be relatively easy and cheap if Bush had possesed the gonads,and I wrote an about this,based on my ideas and the ideas of a couple of other members of Joshua's Army who's profession it is or was to plan out these things. As you'll see, Iran needs a war for the regime to stay in power,an d you're quite right, the match up between us has merely been postponed. it iwll simply be more costly when we get around to it.Regards,Rob
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