By John Cookson, CNN
More people are attending college in the United States than ever before. There were 18 million undergraduate students in 2009, and more than 1.6 million Bachelor's degrees were awarded that year. But are college students studying the subjects that will lead to good jobs and keep America competitive in the world economy?
Below are the top-seven subjects by percent of all Bachelor's degrees awarded in the 2008/2009 school year, collected by the Department of Education. If science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) majors are the path to well-paid jobs and an innovation-led economy, the numbers are concerning.
There are, for example, more students studying visual and performing arts than engineering. There are more parks, recreation, leisure, and fitness studies majors than physical science majors. And there were fewer computer and information science majors in 2008-2009 (37,994) than there were in 1984-85 (38,878).
How do these degrees compare with what students from other countries study when they come to the U.S.? Also below is the Institute of International Education's list of the subjects studied by foreign students in America, each ranked by its percent of all the fields studied.
Read over the two lists and tell us below if you think U.S. students are on the right track.
This Sunday at 8pm ET, Fareed Zakaria will explore what the U.S. education system needs to do to compete in today's world in a special edition of CNN GPS called "Restoring the America Dream: Fixing Education."
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you don't want to downplay America's world class music and films industry, but it could be a little less and psychology seems a lot, comparing with international trends and needs.
We definitely need to encourage kids to be into engineering and computer sciences and math a lot more.
maybe we need to think of it as an incentive. we should advertise it as a way to get rich, for an example as the way people get into business and law schools.
I agree, the Brits and the Americans are known for their performing arts. If one has talent, luck and connections, nothing will stop him/her to become rich and famous. Of course natural, physical and technical sciences should be ignored. The country needs doctors, engineers, chemists, shrinks etc...
You are absolutely right! Americans and Brits are known for their artistic BSting skills, just look at how they BS their way to attack Iraq.
I work in engineering and the international engineers i have worked with are not really that good. I wouldn't worry about it to much. I don't think they are held to the same standards of education that we are.
II'd have to disagree. You're probably referring to foreign trained engineers (many, which have a hard time speaking English). I was trained abroad and in the US as well,trust me – the quality of engineers here is hugely overrated. You probably think because most international engineers are not fluent in English and have a hard time passing information to people of a different language, they are not good engineers – that is false. Let me add that i have taught engineering in the US and i find that many do not seem to understand basic concepts and they all seem to have pretty high GPA's. Sorry, but i had to point this out.
This issue hits close to home for me as I was one of those students who got a degree (social work) without thinking much about future job prospects. Perhaps I am biased because of my own experience, but I feel like this is a HUGE issue facing America. We have a lot of very intelligent, educated young people who just have the "wrong" skills and knowledge.
I think America needs to immediately stop telling our kids "study what you love! Find something you're passionate about!" as if jobs will magically appear when you graduate. They won't and it is a disservice to our youth to make them think otherwise.
Also, America needs to really step up it's math and science education so kids have a strong background and feel confident going into fields like engineering and physical sciences.
I wonder if there's a psychological component to that as well. For years, it was always said that girls don't go into math and science because they are told by society that they are not good at it. Well now, Americans don't go into math and science because they are told they are not good at it.
Michelle, I totally agree. I studied engineering not out of interest, but just because I thought "eh, it will be challenge." Now I am in an industry where my employer cannot fill the available positions because the required skillsets are in such high demand. Recruiters call me on a weekly basis. And yet, America continues to churn out twice the number of social science/history majors as engineering majors.
Baffling.
Travis, keep in mind that, comparatively, the US graduates a higher percent of its young from college. In other countries, college is more restricted. Grueling exams select the top students. You can imagine that in those countries, these top students would select more abstract and high-paying subjects. Google statistics on the rise of college in the US during the past few decades – in the 50s and 60s, less than 10% of the population got a college degree. But today with our insane push for "college for everyone", we've come to this.
Michelle: I disagree with your idea of discouraging students from pursuing studies they love, and that interest them. If someone loves fine arts, or Roman history, and wants to get a degree in it, I think that's wonderful. Most people earn their B.A. or B.S. degrees in their early 20's, which leaves lots of time to get a graduate degree in law, or engineering, or computer science, or medicine. And I suggest that an engineer, lawyer, computer expert, or physician is probably a better-rounded person if he or she has a liberal arts or fine arts degree in his background.
I have to agree with Michelle. From my experiences in surveying people working dead end jobs (or jobs they can't stand) to people who are evening struggling to find jobs, they would rather have a secure job to reduce the stress of paying bills, maintaining their homes, and supporting their children. I don't think that it would hurt if we just lessened our classic mantra of "do what you really love." Nothing wrong with roman history and acting, but maybe we should nudge young people more towards math and science so that they can have better lives and this country can have a better future.
Well if they stop shipping engineering jobs over seas.. maybe you might have an increase in that area.. I know for fact i will not get a degree in a field where there is no jobs..
False. There are tons of engineering jobs here that cannot be outsourced. Qualified people to fill the positions don't exist.
OH there ARE qualified Americans to fill those jobs......but why hire an American Engineer when you can hire an immigrant from India for half the wage?
because if you're an employer you have to pay for their visa as well
They wouldn't be shipping those jobs overseas if there were qualified people in the US. Unfortunately there are more people with the motivation to play xboxs than there are to study engineering
Respectfully disagree. Jobs that are going abroad are Business bottom-line decisions, not shortage of engineers in the US. Yes, the Americans are not joining Engineering schools but as the chart shows above, international students are joining Engineering/Computer Science schools in the US and are available and filling US Engineering demands.
Americans need to realize and start focusing on the market demands or else the 'foreigners' will keep filling the high paying, high demand jobs and you will have no one to blame but yourself.
I am a foreigner, I have a BS in IT from Texas, MBA from Connecticut, and Masters in Global Program and Project Management. I have a high paying job and I am not worried about loosing my job even in this market.
Consider the economics of the situation, you can hire 10 Bulgarian or Ukrainian engineers or 3 Indians to do the work of one senior American engineer. There's also a tremendous amount of age discrimination in tech as you can see if you wander around a tech company. Where did all the 50+ year old engineers go?
The quality of Eng grads in US is very high. So even if the numbers are lower it should not matter. The no 1 subject is business , irrespective of US or non US students
I happen to be an engineer (recent grad) who has a great job, and I have an xbox. Usually boils down to actually has the skills. And after dealing w/ internationals it seems that they are more likely educated here if they are truely good. I've seen several be hired out of the US.
Science and Engineering are dead end low paying careers. Either the Economist or Fortune recently had an article of how they hired a business degree to run herds of tens of thousands of engineers from a command & control center in his home. The only reason they yak about engineering jobs is that the defense contractors want to be sure they can hire those bulk lots of 10,000 engineers cheaply and there's a good supply of cheap replacements.
I have a master's in Chem E and after 20 years I'm lucky to make $50K/year.
We are paying Ph.D. engineers starting salaries well over 100K. If you have over 20 years of experience, it can be over 200K. We cannot find enough qualified engineers to hire.
Go ahead and keep thinking business degrees are worth more than the paper they're printed on. You can join the thousands of grads out there with business degrees and no jobs, whining about how they are so poor and can't find work. Engineering grads actually design and build products, business grads sit around and push numbers from one cell to another, not doing anything productive to the economy.
Really??? below 50K a year??? Naaah
Very interesting comparison. I've heard the statistic that 1/3 of undergrads major in math, science, and engineering, but from this data it seems that only a fraction of those manage to get degrees.
No surprise that business is so popular, but I'm shocked that math/compsci majors don't even break 5% in the US. On the other hand we do have a large number of people studying "health sciences", which may very well include physical sciences and biology.
What I'd like to see is more data, because the percentages for the US add up to something much lower than the percentages for international students.
The science, medical, engineering and tech programs in the US are still world class. It isn't surprising that a greater percentage of foreign students would be enrolled in and studying those subjects.
Yes, America still has world class in many fields today because it has the large middle to upper class population and open immigration culture.
i guess the worry is not ivy league graduates but bottom 25%, high school dropouts.
what do they going to do after school? you can't even join the army now.
Walk through any engineering college...70% of students are international students from India and China. School is very expensive these days...stupid degrees are waste of time and money.
Americans are studying the right thing. Leave to boring science and engineering to foreigners, that's what the immigration quotas are for. Americans are good at performing arts, and they are much better than number crunching machines.
Completely right! With what one performing arts person brings in during a year you can hire on contract 20 top Indian or Chinese scientists. We're developing the people skills rather than the grunt skills needed to build more assembly lines.
So you'll hire 20 immigrants for every 1 american. And again you losers wonder why the US is not hiring people
Put more emphasis on math and science at the lower grades. We have an enormous problem because of "no child left behind." The classroom averages have dropped dramatically. Shift higher level students into separate programs. My son attended a Talented and Gifted Program for math/science, it was great but his was the last graduating class. High ranking students need as much extra attention as the lowest ranking students and both categories should be split off and given specific attention in order to succeed.
We have a screwed up value culture. Sports persons are rewarded many times more than any professional. Granted only few make the cut to the top but parents encourage their children in schools to get in the sports. Any easy degree from a college with some sales talent can lead to a job in the stock market business with great rewards. Engineering ans science degrees need dedication and hard work not leaving enough time for xbox and other electronics gadgetery. There is no incentive. Highly talented teachers and school advisers can motivate students to pursue engineering and science education. But of course we can afford that because we do not have much leftove after our representatives have returned their favors to their sponsors with great tax cuts.
The PM of Malaysia was right: You can't bring the country ahead by studying history and religion. Fortunately, I love my job and my skills are still in demand past retirement age (and I am not retiring). I am still a bargain because I can normally outperform two or more bright kids.
I advised a young Harvard Extension student who was good in math but wanted to study psychology: The recruiter will see just four (4) words on your resume: Asian, Female, Harvard, Math. "You're hired!" They will think you can walk on water. Take psychology? You'll be just another pretty face.
Seems like my major – mortuary science – is still the right choice! Winning
There's always a demand, that's for sure. Good for you!
Unfortunately our culture is oriented too much towards constant entertainment, rather than hard work and discipline, due to many years of affluence and excessive disposal income. The tough economic times will surely change these luxury lifestyle and over time more college kids will pursue worthwhile professions. Until then this debate will go on and on, with some of us living in a make believe world.
Right from the KG we do not tell the kids that we live in a physical world, hence should learn physics, live with chemicals so should study Chemistry, live with biological things thus should study biology, mathematics provides models of any thing thus need to study mathematics and the rest. But really unqualified bogus teachers without qualifying in any major subject matters teach the kids who are turned into junkies. This continues in junior high and high school. How can you expect these kids to think and learn Engineering and Science to create the next generation products and industries.No hope until the next recession comes.
There are at least 24 hours in a day each that every tv station projects the wealth and popularism of the artist. So many shows on what is happening in Hollywood and the day to day activities of winners and losers of love affairs of the performers. Also the affluence in show business must attract the ones that have not made up their minds on what to do. And this problem will continue to get bigger. Who wants to do math when they can text a friend...and mom says "let the child do what the child wants, as long as he or she is happy. I never had such a good life and I will not deprive my child." We need some tough love again in this world. When last did you see interviewers on tv show interview, operating engineers, farmers, fishermen, computer programmers, pilots, navigators etc. Hey man, its all about Hollywood!
There are enough wise persons -who are absolutely right when talking about 'Balance' because the perfection is longer lasting in the 'acts' not 'states'. We need just "One benevolent dictator-type honest head with qualities and 'No personal greed for luxuries' in control of World's Powers or in the UN"; -supervising 'One global democratic system for equally distributing wealth in order to try to close the gap between too poor and too rich' and currently available Obama has those qualities who just needs a little more time.
The uprisings against too wealthy big guys with small minds world-wide, will continue to be bigger and biggest and the all type of goons, even 3rd WW won't be able to suppress anymore -the timely voice of the 'Hard-working, digitally well communicated more intelligent Middle Class People'.
The suppressed evidences of old Russian style political hoaxes are now re-discoverable and not destroyable in the name of procedural destruction to save “the Elusive Crocodile”.
National secrets is a concept of the old world to validate ugly plots and acts of some guys in then, world powers. New World will do much better without those acts and foreign policies etc.
New policies needed to validate phone and e-mail hacking by the Government in a no secret manner, then only bad guys, whether be a citizen or its leader; a member of the public or a public servants have to worry and become good.
Nothing will ever be perfect but ‘Perfection’ is in the acts of balancing (50%‘s of opposing forces) and that’s how everything about our humanly existence and mundane things are programmed.
To be honest, I must state: otherwise, dishonesty always to be remained in the fabric of politics and the old norm is to continue where there won’t be enough honest supporters behind to build a honest leadership, therefore, negatively powerful dishonest leader-ships will prevail. We-the non-violent wise persons need to be united and 'not divided' in our unique aim to build a Wise Leader-ship of the world in the soil of North-America!
Shahislam
I studied engineering, and had a 16 year corporate career. Due to outsourcing, being 40+, and hispanic, I will never work as an engineer. My company could hire 3 Indian engineers for what I was getting paid in the US, and eventually, the accountants crunched the numbers, and my job along with many others were gone.
Studying business or health care would have been a far better choice, and I advise others to avoid tech and these lightweight liberal arts degrees.
Why does no one mention the trades? We still need plumbers, electricians, carpenters, auto mechanics, etc. College is not for everyone. My son has a good job in IT, but he would be happier owning his own business or working in the trades. Doing something that you dislike takes a psychological and spiritual toll.
Society and culture in America put too much emphasis on entertainment, sports, and leisure. We Americans have been having a whole lot of fun for the past few decades, thinking everything concerning the affairs of this nation will play out as usual. Thus there's no wonder why more American students enroll in such areas of study in college. More emphasis must be placed on the sciences, engineering, and innovation in technology. But to do that, we first need to clean up our education system. The education that one has attained upon graduating high school is quite elementary compared to the education that people received 40, 80, even 100+ years ago.
And as the person above me mentioned, we still need people in the trades. I think a job in such areas is noble and is important to the country. I just wish more emphasis was placed on the training and educating of individuals in the sciences, the trades, engineering, and technology, rather than in entertainment, sports, leisure, etc.
18 million undergrads yet only 1.6 million with a bachelor degree?
Interesting.
US Graduates – $50,000 in debt. Others – Less than $5.000? See where the problem is?
It's just a matter of time before we no longer will lead the world in discoveries and innovation. We are just riding or living off the merit of previous innovation. I am not hopeful for the U.S. as I used to be.
Just looking through the local job ads I do not see much there for highly trained engineers (unless you want to be a custodial engineer) or as the local school system terms them (environmental specialists)
I agree that it is just a matter of time before we no longer lead the world in discoveries and innovation. Countries like China and India have much higher populations and it is just a matter of time before they catch up. While I do think America is an exceptional country I do not believe that Americans are superior to the rest of the world.
I am in the residential design business and we have a lot of debate about the poor quality of housing in America. It does not suffer because people who design houses are stupid or poorly trained. -The average American chooses size and cost over performance and quality. It does not seem to make a difference what their level of education is.
It seems like any discussion you see on the economy these days people are pointing to one thing or another (in this case an imperfect educational system) and saying "see here is the problem"
But usually they do not address the real problem.
Half the population of the world will never be brilliant -(unless we invent some pill that changes that).
We are always going to need people actually making things (we can't all be CNN commentators or engineers)
This fantasy that somehow we where going to export all of our manufacturing jobs and be left with only high paying high skill jobs has about run it's course. It turns out that the rest of the world knows about education also.
A good economy is created by everyone doing their part and the system as a whole functioning efficiently.
People don't have the patience for science and math, and they learn this in their early academic experiences. Sciences require intense understanding in order to apply concepts properly. Many academic areas only require a what or a who, but science requires in addition a why and a how. The right balance of intelligence and diligence is needed, which few in our society seem to possess.
What's unfortunate to me is that this simply shows a lack of interest in the sciences in America. As a chemistry major myself (well, I haven't changed yet, but don't plan on it anytime soon) I value greatly the opportunity I have not only to study chemistry but immerse myself in other subjects as well. I'm in my school's Men's Chorus, I study Spanish and hope to take philosophy and accounting. When I went to a concert the other week, my date told me that the ticket office at my school recorded that more science majors attended cultural events (such as music and drama performances) than liberal arts majors. I find that the reverse, however, is not true – not too many English majors going to the planetarium at my school (then again, not too many science majors going there either). Most people I know who major in history or English (a broad generalization) have absolutely no desire to study the hard sciences, seeing those general requirements as the bane of their existence. The issue isn't so much that they're majoring in those subjects, but rather that a large portion are not showing any interest at all.
Actually, it shows nothing of the sort.
You were trained in Chemistry, which indicates that you were trained well in science, but not so well in critical thinking. That's what we poly-sci majors do.
Still doesn't change what I observe, that generally, science students tend to be more well-rounded than others.
Then again, my definition of well-rounded is probably pretty skewed since it requires a pretty solid understanding of all subjects, not just mere appreciation. I think it's fun to watch English majors fail their science classes while the science majors do well in all their subjects outside of their major.
The numbers are meaningless. We send huge a percentage of our population to college, including people of every age. Other countries send small percentages. How about comparing the actually NUMBERS of US students studying engineering, or any other science, as opposed to any other country? You have to add up all of the rest of the world combined to reach comparable numbers.
Also – when you're talking about "international students," you're not talking about all students around the world. Rather, you're talking about foreign students in the US, many of whom were sent here to study the sciences by companies or government. Of course the numbers are skewed. That is what we would expect.
Around the world, a bachelor's degree is a rarity. In the US, it is hardly worth mentioning on a resume' except as a doorway to an entry-level job.
If the US is falling so far behind in teaching and learning the hard sciences, then why are all those foreign students coming here to learn science? When is the last time you heard of an American going abroad to find a top-notch hard science program?
(And here's another critical thinking tip – the one exception you just strained to remember does not refute what I just wrote. Rather, it is the exception that proves the rule...if you're capable of understanding that concept as well.)
@ shenson: I am not working at half the wage! It's not the same as hiring an illegal non-tech worker you know. The Dept of Labor does an LCA- Labor Condition Application i.e. check what the prevailing wage for the Tech job in the place of hire is, if the 'emigrant Indian' is being payed at least that much and that the job posting was open for a specific time period and no American citizen could be hired for this position. Get your head out of the sand. I respect this country's culture of academic rigor and research environment but if I had to unfairly fight the locals for a job, I would rather go home and get a slightly smaller paycheck
@Travis: Right on brother
The way our current K-12 education system is set up right now is merely pumping out tech oriented, self-centered individuals who value the acquisition of the next 'thing' that they think is going to bring them happiness. A "Liberal Arts" education was originally designed to liberate one's mind from the dogmatic traditions that only contribute to the problem of a seeminlgy morally degraded society. The Arts and Humanities teach students how to be human, by presenting different aspects of humanity from an empathetic perspective. The world is full of button pushers and number crunchers. In my opinion our education system should be focusing on producing democratic citizens above all else. Wouldn't it be nice to see an America where voters and policy makers could empathize with an opposing view?
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Vitamin A is a type of oil soluble vitamin it's an antioxidant that are needed to scavenge ion radical.it makes up important pigment to absorb light into the eyes for vision formerly it's said to prevent cancer but studies recently has found out that it doesn't help much in preventing cancer..
Have several science degrees, including a Master's in Chemical Engineering, worked for 3 yrs under a guy who won the Nobel in Chemistry and own a company which does predictions and mathematical modeling for nuclear, chemical, and mfg industries.
My compensation averages about 40-50K /year although some years it's in the 20K range. Basically there are so many inexpensive foreign science grads in the sciences/engineering that there is no need to pay a salary higher than 35K /year for any science degree, any amount of experience. However that's the way large companies like it as it reduces overhead.
In summary chosing a career in science/ engineering is like spending many years, and having exceptional ability, to become a contract fruit picker for a Californian orchard.