This Sunday, a Fareed Zakaria GPS primetime special – “Restoring the American Dream: Fixing Education”. The show airs at 8p and 11p ET/PT.
While America was once tops in education, we are now ranked 15th in reading, 23rd in science, and 31st in math.
What happened? How can we dig ourselves out of this deep hole?
For inspiration, we go to South Korea and Finland – two nations that consistently rank highly on education. Interestingly, the two have very different approaches. South Korea has long school days and school years with a strong focus on standardized testing. Finland is much more lackadaisical – except in its approach to teachers and teaching. In Finland, teachers are revered; it’s tougher to get into masters programs for teaching than it is to get into higher education for medicine and law.
So what can we learn? We talked about the priorities of teachers, testing, and technology with Microsoft chairman Bill Gates whose foundation has given $5 billion to education so far; we speak with former DC schools chair Michelle Rhee, and education activist Diane Ravitch. We look at a novel way of teaching, started by a former investment manager who stumbled upon a formula for student success: Sal Khan is the creator of the Khan Academy, a YouTube-based “classroom” that so far has gotten over 80 million hits - and reports of success using it in real classrooms.
Finally, Fareed offers his take on what will fix our troubles.
Here are some excerpts:
The secrets of Seoul
Welcome to Seoul, South Korea – capital city of one of the world’s fastest-growing economies. There are many reasons to be impressed with this Asian tiger that rose from the ashes of a civil war. But South Korea’s crown jewel is its education system. Thanks to a militant drive for success, this nation’s students have outperformed the rest of the world for the better part of a decade. On the most recent Pisa exam, the benchmark international test, South Korea ranked first in reading and second in math among all nations.
President Obama has noticed, singing Korea’s praises on a regular basis. On a visit to Seoul in 2009, he asked South Korean president Lee Myung-bak what his biggest challenge was in education. The president’s reply? Korean parents care too much about their children’s success. We visited the Cho family on a typical day for their son, Sung-do. He gets up every day at six a.m., jumps rope as the sun comes up. Then eats a massive breakfast his mother has prepared. She says a healthy meal helps his concentration. Sung-do goes to school from eight a.m. to four p.m. on most days – much longer hours than most American students. There are about two hundred and five schools days in the South Korean calendar – twenty-five more than the typical U.S. schedule. Over the course of their academic careers, South Korean children will spend almost two more years in the classroom than their American counterparts.
Insights from Bill Gates
Fareed Zakaria: If you were the secretary of education, well, let’s say you have - even more powerful than the secretary of education. So suppose you could change something about the structure of American education, the, you know, the system, what would it be?
Bill Gates: If I was in charge of a school district, it would be about hiring the best teachers. And how do you get them to learn from each other and how do you make sure you’re bringing the really good ones in. So the basic research about great teaching, that’s now become our biggest investment.
It could be a very smart investment. One study says that if students had a top teacher for four years straight, the achievement gap between blacks and whites would disappear.
The Gates foundation has launched a massive effort to figure out how America can foster great teaching – collecting data from thousands of educators and even videotaping their lessons.
Fareed Zakaria: What do you think makes a good teacher?
Bill Gates: Clearly, there's something about engaging the student. As I've watched the videos of great teachers, they are constantly looking out and seeing that the kids are starting to fidget. They're bringing up the energy level. They're calling on this kid. They're using examples.
Fareed Zakaria: But Gates’ research is not only about identifying great teachers.
His team is also figuring out how to grade the teachers – just like they grade their students.
They’re looking at different ways to reward and motivate good teachers – like adding to their paychecks based on a principal’s evaluation or their students’ performance.
Bill Gates: Why is teaching going to be better 10 years from now, 20 years from now, than it is today? Well, partly because we’re going to have these feedback mechanisms. Now the way you weigh the different elements, how much tests weigh into that, how strong the other elements are, that’s what we’re investing in.
And that’s where things can get controversial – because when it comes to education policy, the politics are nasty.
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How do you fix education when the unions oppose anything that would actually improve the quality of the teachers who are tasked with the responsibility of educating our children?
You dump the unions. That's how you do it.
Having been an educator for about 5 years, 4 of which were in a tough inner-city school I am deeply offended about how non-educators want to blame the "unions" for problems in education. The problem is not those of us who defend our profession against those who know little about it, and against those would not dare ride down the street of many of these urban areas, not to mention teach there!! The two biggest problems I see are extremely bad, uncaring, parents who send their kids to school unprepared and unmotivated and expect TEACHERS to do what they should be doing at home. Next, is this whole movement filled with "experts" who spend noserious time in inner city environments-yet can tell you what's needed to fix it!! Visit such schools in your community, volunteer there, immerse yourself in the culture and see what teachers face everyday and understand why half-yes half-of all new teachers quit within their first three years. THEN maybe we can begin to have a serious national conversation that doesn't include blasting those laboring in the trenches, extremely frustrated by the armchair education experts!!
You are absolutely right.
I saw mr. Gates talking about "fixing" education.
As I loose almost 3 to 6 hours each month due to annoyances of the Vista operating system that I paid almost a hundred bucks to install in my PC, one thing I have to say to him, please fix your operating systems first and then start fixing education that you don't know anything about.
Leave education matters to education professionals.
Or if you care that much, come and work as an educator and talk. PLEASE.
Lunatic – upgrade to Windows 7. Everyone else – if you're upgrading from XP, pass on Vista and jump to Windows 7.
I think one of the major problems with education in this country is a culture that has evolved over time that does not value education as it once did. Corporations have bombarded Americans from birth to be more concerned about the clothes they wear, the electronics they possess, and the hair style they have rather than being concerned about the means by which to obtain these items. Over time I have seen people become more and more concerned about materialism and taking the easy way out. We now have parents that have been raised in this culture and don't value education in the same way parents did in the past. "It's not my fault I didn't learn in school the school failed me". Without changing this culture you will never have people that want to learn and it's not the sole responsibility of the teacher to change the culture nor the fault of the teacher for such a culture. Even the expert from Finland that was interviewed said he felt helpless when evaluating the condition of an American class that American teachers had to deal with. His statement spoke volumes about the environment of American classrooms, but not much was said about his comment. Put a teacher from Finland in many of our schools and they would probably quit. In closing I am not a teacher but am concerned about the assault on American teachers.
There are no bad soldier but bad leaders. I will never agree that any children is irreversible. I will never allow such excuse to manifest and justify poor performance. I am a strong advocate against Unions who adulterate the meritocratic system. Compromise meritocracy and you dig a bigger and bigger grave.
Civilisations have risen and fall because of tweaking with meritocracy. There is no alternative. There should never be any compromise for quality. You compromise it and in the ling run you lose more jobs and even whole schools get shut down.
Admit it that the quality of education provided in US is mediocre.
I agree, and this is a good opinion to start it of.
So what about the good parents that have to reteach to their child because he wasnt successfully taught at school. I live in an area that is known for its great schools but yet I have a 6th grade son that struggles with math because they only offer 2 levels. There is the pace program for the super brains and the "regular" pace for everyone else. Well, my son needs the pace that doesnt exist in his school. So, everyday, he comes home and I have to reteach because he didnt understand. They move too fast and they are not given exposure to a concept for more than a moment before they are moving on. In our public school, the pace is too fast and furious for my son to gain a secure understanding of the material. He has used every tutor in the area since 2nd grade til now-6th grade. If our public school didnt have the o"one size fits all" mentality perhaps the underachievers would have an opportunity to "get it" like the mainstream children.
Anything of no interest to those well in life doesn't get government attention. Education was privatized and those that can't pay for it have no education.
This is the status of most of the Western wrold.
You got wrong on parent don't want kids stay in school long. Every one like to have their kids in school all day, the simple fact is parent don't have to pay daycare.
It's been shown and proven that when a principal has the power to fire teachers they deem unfit and replace them the students improve. Teachers unions are a major part of the problem. Your union is against chartered schools which are proven to be better schools. Just look at new orleans, most of their schools have been replaced by charter schools and the entire state test scores have gone way up.
Although I do agree uncaring parents are a big part as to why students don't do well, but you can't get rid of someones parent, but we should be able to get rid someone's bad teacher.
I am not an expert at anything, and I don't claim to be. I am a 36-year-old country boy from the Bootheel of southern Missouri. I talk to quite a few older folks, a few of these people were school teachers back in the good old days. I admit I am old-fashioned and I still ascribe to old-fashioned ways. I think the old ways really were better. Back in the "Glory Days" of American education/everything else, several things were different. Let's examine just a few of these differences: The Flag was at the front of the class and my age group Pledged our Allegiance to the Flag and the (American) Republic. Anther thing, here in south Missouri, we still often had the Ten Commandments posted in our class rooms. The teacher led the class, occasionally even led us in a non-denominational Prayer. The teacher ordered the class: if you didn't pay attention, he or she had the authority to get your attention and hold it. ( That is, the teacher had the authority to use a paddle on mis-behaving and un-ruly children) The teacher demanded respect for his/her self and fellow class mates. We learned to be polite. We learned to fear and respect God and Country. None of my class mates are rocket scientists, but we are productive citizens. I attribute that to "Our Raisin'."
AS I battle with our schools for more STEM courses. We need to cut out the nonsense in our high schools and get our kids prepared for the global economy. Why can't I get my child more science classes? Instead he has to take drama, why? What a waste of time. Please help.
Education for all, also the immigrants is the case in Europe. Although education is free, many children lag behind, because they don't command the language of their country of residence.
Jackie,
"Preparing our kids for the global economy" doesn't just mean more STEM classes. Drama ("the nonsense"), and the arts in general teach creative thinking and innovation – two extremely key attributes of competing, and advancing, in a globalized economy. Drama may actually teach science more effectively, and perhaps reach a wider audience, than more traditional teaching methods. It's the 'teaching effectively" part that is important – it's engaging students, getting them excited about learning and about knowledge, that will push us ahead.
Mel,
I respectfully disagree, our child has had difficulties in math, so instead of getting the extra hour of help that is needed for Algebra II, he will be wasting time in a drama class. We feel this time would be better served for an additional hour of support for the math course. For those students who are excelling, then fine they can utilize their time in a drama class. We are sending students out of high school who can not read, why when they should have intense reading help, not attending an elective.
@Jackie Why? Because that's what the teachers know. Teacher hiring is not market-driven, but supply-driven. Few people who go into high school teaching are math whizzes. They like art, drama, English, etc. I doubt it's a conscious decision by school systems, but if your hiring pool is skewed artsy, that's what you're going to get.
My sympathies.
Do not make this mistake.
I come from Singapore. Totally shifting to science and maths will be a disaster. The broad based education in America is a far more superior system of developing future leaders.
The problem is the quality of teachers. The maths and science teachers are very very poor in America because of outright discrimination against more qualified international teachers because of citizenship priorities and keeping jobs in this bad economy
If your child is struggling in a math class, then why don’t you get him some tutoring outside of school? Why leave the problem to the school to fix? Are you taking an active role in his education? Does your child participate in extracurricular activities after school? Football? Basketball? Soccer? Why is that more important than some extra math tutoring? Creative and performance art classes are important for developing well rounded students who can think critically, solve problems, and work in groups. The only skill more science and math classes teach is how to succeed on more tests. That won’t serve him well in college.
I struggled for a few years in reading comprehension. My teacher and my parents made the decision to send me to an outside tutoring organization. Specialized testing revealed that I had a learning disability that needed to be addressed. More classroom instruction wouldn’t have fixed the problem, at all.
Adding more STEM courses is simply another simplistic quick fix. The findings of the Collegiate Learning Assessment nationwide suggest a much deeper problem. At the end of four years of college, many students show little increase in the ability to think critically, to engage in creative problem solving and to effectively express their understandings in written, verbal or technical terms. Indeed, in some majors, like business and education – where technocracy has had its largest impact – those skills actually *decline* over the four years. Liberal arts majors – where students are required to think critically, read extensively, write regularly – show the most growth in these skills. Business and education show the least and STEM majors hover in the middle.
There is an enormous danger in the emphasis of STEM to the exclusion of liberal arts majors. Left brain dominant studies which exclude right brain processes developed through reflection, application, connection of ideas to other ideas and expansionist cross-cultural study tend to be rigid, brittle, incapable of dealing with change. They also tend to be lacking in concern for how socially constructed practices such as business and technology impact the human beings and societies they supposedly were designed to serve – not the reverse.
In the early 1930s, Germany was one of the most STEM conscious cultures in the world and had one of the highest levels of literacy and educated publics. In the next 10 years it would steadily emphasize STEM while virtually cutting off its liberal arts. Those academics, clergy and artists who did not marshall their efforts to legitimizing the Nazi regime were systematically demoted, deported if not dispatched entirely. It would employ the first uses of a then-punch card based accounting machine devised by International Business Machines to track its former citizens dispatched to death camps. The entire conscience of Germany was lobotomized while its business, industry and sciences served a destructive war machine.
The results should readily reveal why this was a huge mistake and why a STEM only approach with the goal of jobs in business – as our incredibly myopic governor here in Florida is pursuing – will produce similarly self-defeating results. I am seeing the results of the test-driven pedagogy of the failed social experiment called No Child Left Behind each day in my college classes at Florida's largest state university. It is not a pretty picture. And I am increasingly concerned about the future of an America in the hands of such poorly educated, uncritical thinkers.
You really should hire a tutor for your kid instead of trying to deny my child art or music class. Art and music are great motivators and stimulates the mind. the key to a successful and happy life is being well rounded.
What have you done to try to improve your son's math skills?
Jackie,
While I agree with you that Science is an essential part of each student's education; the Arts can press students to use critical thinking skills and collaborative skills which they will find very useful as they study the Sciences. Imagine how lame the Renaissance would have been if either Science or the Arts were left out. Perhaps your child's science teacher should sit in on the drama class and the drama teacher might do the same. Wouldn't it be something if both benefited from the experience?
Watching this program, I am once again struck by the fact that not once are educators being asked about education. Michelle Rhea....seriously. A cheater. A non-educator. Bill Gates...giving money makes you an expert. Comparing Finland and South Korean education system to the U.S. .the problem is apples to oranges.. We need to change the student as a rule...let us talk about how teachers are disrespected by all segments of this society. You will not have to ask why they tend to get no respect in the classroom
Yes, it's important to have good teachers. In Western European countries, teachers at primary school have to have a special education for being able to teach, while secondary school teachers mostly have an university degree or equivalence. In most countries they are well paid.
I love it that a college drop out who became rich by stealing ideas from Apple is pontificating about how to improve the educational system. The American education system is destine to collapse because no one has the cojones to roll back decades of putting political correctness in front of discipline in the classroom, allowing local boards of "education" to become corrupted political machines, and consistently giving away passing grades to students who cannot even read. And those issues are only the tip of the iceberg. My only advise: send your kids to study abroad!
That's a strong point. In Asia the teacher is held in very high regard, here they're subject of accusations of unfair treatment, being yelled at, hit. It's pretty sad how some parents treat their childrens teachers. But on the other hand, it's usually the parents of the dumbest kid that are the most abusive.
If your child is doing badly in school it's an embarrassment for the whole family.
I have to wonder if our jobs are being shipped oveseas because were not educated enough or if companies want "cheap" educated people doing the work. Improving our education system is important, but I don't think that it's going to solve the problem of getting Americans back to work when the greedy corporations are merely focused on finding cheap slave labor markets to produce their products.
Have you ever worked in a large corporation? Engineers, programmers more than half if not all of them are usually from other countries. The ones we do have all work at silicon valley. The rest of the country are coming up short. We are far behind other modern countries in graduating people with engineering degrees, the best and brightest here all want to be lawyers or investment bankers.
I worked for a large corporation that has laid-off hundreds of engineers over the past several years. They want cheaper engineers. What young person would want to enter the field of engineering these days? Wages are down in these fields and college costs too much. Fareed is wrong about one thing, he stated that wages went down because education went down. Wages went flat long before there were problems in education. There is no "carrot" anymore to inspire anyone anymore.
Unions have a place of preventing discrimination and retraining teachers. Unfortunately they have instead allow poor quality to manifest and remain in the system. It is like an iron rice bowl in the communist system. Under that system there is no incentive to be an excellent teacher.
My estimate is that 70 percent of any University or College in US teachers do not presently perform according to the salaries they command. They are being rewarded for their past performance and worst many then transit to administrative jobs which are strategic in ensuring improvement and they even mess that up
You are not a teacher are you?
Einstein said we should consider everything on as simple a basis as possible, but no more so. Beyond simple lies simplistic. Unions are no more the single cause of the woes of public education than any other element in the system. And irresponsible taxpayers who have acquiesced to cutting funding over and over to education have no standing to criticize the failures of defunded systems. To do so is little more than hypocrisy.
If we want to improve education, we must first actually value it. America has a long history of anti-intellectualism. We also want to do things on the cheap – and easy. Test-driven pedagogy has proven a disaster and produced a generation of Pavlov's dogs who can dispense information on command (using the carrot of grades) but have no clue what it actually means. Finally, we must be willing to come to grips with what reliable testing such as SAT prior to college and the Collegiate Learning Assessment at the end of college is telling us: the roots of educational inequity lie in social and economic inequity. The failures of education are merely reflections of our larger society with its free market fundamentalism and social irresponsibility.
Dealing with that reality is not easy and it does not lend itself to quick fixes for instant gratification. Hence we seek scapegoats like unions and immigrants and offer answers so simplistic they cross the line into idocy. In the meantime our children's educational needs continue unattended.
Well spoken, my good sir. As someone who finally escaped the horrors of public schooling in a town where the teachers are paid way more than the national average while too many students fail miserably with no instructor to turn to, I fully agree and back Bill Gates' idea.
Also, for anyone complaining about their child not being able to keep up in average classes: please, your kid and those like him are the cancer that is slowly choking our education system. Pull him and either put him in a school where he won't hinder those around him and will fit in better, or home school him. Yes, take the time to educate your own damn child since no one else can do the job properly.
You are correct, sir! Once that person gets out of school and has to compete in the real world, no one will slow it down so he can keep up! Better get used to the fast pace now because it doesn't get any better as time goes on. Too bad for that slow kid, but that's the way of the world. If you don't like it, then work to make this world a more just and cooperative environment where everyone can thrive and be productive.
Dump unions is a popular Republican sound bite based on no evidence that unions result in students failing in school
There are alot of things wrong with the public education from the elected official in charge with the funding to the teachers in the classrooms. As a special education adovcate, I've probably seen more than my share of the failure of public education. But the common theme in all the districts I work in is no-one is "child focused". That's right, no-one but the parents because they only care about their child. The American Publc Education is the worst run business in the world and if you don't beilve me, replay the broadcast. If you want to fix public education start with making everyone accountable, shift the focus on the child and remove special education attorneys from running school district. Let the educators run the district, heck that's what they went to school for in the first place.
That student in Korea had an 8 hour school day?! Ha! Is that a joke?!! They are missing the other half of the day! As a current public school teacher in South Korea, I can attest that all of my students go to public school from 8am-3:30pm then go to private academy from 4pm-10pm everyday (including Saturdays)! Then they do homework from school and academy. That is the norm is South Korea! No student of middle or upper class would ever be done with the school day at 4pm!
These kids are exhausted!
While the investment in academics has done spectacular things to improve the quality of life in South Korea, everything must be done in moderation.
Fareed or anyone who puts blame on teachers and the union don't know what they are talking about. It is the most simple and naive argument available. It is the politicians argument because it is a cop out with no rebuttal.
It's like saying I support are troops. Easy out!
Yeah there are some bad teachers but they are few. Find a teachers kid and find out how their doing in school and you'll find the brightest collective group in the USA.
Teachers are probably better trained than 99% of the population. Schools have become places where parents complain non stop, are dumping grounds for every social ill ( swine flu , okay teachers can just teach your kids how to be clean).
Many pop off about teaching, and yet throw fareed into a class and he would not last 20 minutes.
Teachers will often tell you if you are having trouble with a student don't be surprised when you call the parent and they are exactly the same.
Fareed's kids go to school with parents that have million dollar homes. Fareed guess what mommy is doing with junior at age 4. She reads with him. She tells him use your words and don't hit. Sit up straight at the table. Believe it or not fareed those are all concepts that teachers struggle getting across to a large portion of the population.
Breaking it into such simple terms as blaming the teacher does a disservice to the goal.
Our schools have become zoos. Fixing education means fixing the horrendous behavior issues. Our schools are so busy putting out behavior "fires" and blaming teachers, kids are not learning. Teachers are pinned between the horrible behavior of students and the mandates of standardized testing. Disgusting. More time? Do you really think I want to tutor kids who are telling teachers to "suck their D*%$a" and MF them up one side and down the other, wasting valuable instruction time. Do you really think I want to give up my time to plan for students who want to learn to tutor students who don't even bring a pen to class and then disrupt those classes by yelling out how they don't have pens or paper or pencils.
There is no hope. Ever since Reagan said 'the government is the problem', government employees have become reviled and ridiculed as parasites and wastrels. What country neglects its children and expects to prosper? What country doesn't appreciate that one needs to invest now to benefit in the future? There is no hope without an acknowledgement that government is a force for good. Therefore there is no hope in America, and there will be no hope until there is a major crisis. This present crisis isn't big enough. The country is still in denial. Perhaps when China overtakes or the debt pops the economy. Who knows.
@PMcDonald, you are completely right. Our country is getting worse and worse and the country is so divided its sad. I do think we're going to have a huge depression but really we need to be reminded that the world isn't just handed to us on a golden platter like it's been the last 30 plus years. The Baby Boomer generation has and will continue to destroy this country.
I dont think we should blame any particular category y like the baby boomers.
The problem is the fundamental principle of meritocracy.
Given a proven superior candidate who is a foreigner and another American citizen who is average but needs the job. Who will you hire? The answer is obvious and is the root cause of the problem
The founding declaration of independence tried to removed any form of artificial barriers to equality. Modern day American have blatantly violated this principle to ensure self preservation. The system can only get worst when meritocracy is compromised in what ever way.
PMcDonald is correct, we never should have allowed Ronald Reagan to get away with the self defeating statement, "Government is the problem" .. it gave way to a 30 year period of deregulate and cut taxes and allow the Corporate World to run (ruin) our country. We need to get back to a culture that values each and every human being and gives each person their basis needs ... food, health care, shelter, high quality education, and the "pursuit of happiness" ... government plays a vital role in providing those basis needs and the Wall Street crowd has tied governments hands and not allowed us to invest in people (schools) ... there is still HOPE but we must all speak out and get out of our comfort zone and confront the misinformed on how this nation must re-build thru trusting each other and that includes government workers because corporations are not people .. but the government is ... the government is made up of many dedicated public servants and Reagan insulted them all and we remained silent for 30 years .. it is time to speak up and Say ... NO the problem is the Corporate GREED ... in the words of Ted Kennedy ...When will the GREED stop? Answer: when the 99% say they have had enough.
Bill Gates says that to improve the quality of education in the United States we need to hire high quality teachers. To attract and retain high quality teachers, we as a society need to treat them as professionals and support them in the classroom. Teachers should be evaluated based upon their professional practice. Teachers should not have to teach lock step with other teachers or to use board-approved scripts, but should be allowed to use their professional judgment to determine what is best for their students and then held accountable to administrators and peers based upon the evaluations. As a society, we should not have the false illusion that we should replace our schools with charter schools or online schools. We should utilize technology, but we should not think we can replace teachers with computers because they are cheaper. Students need teachers who model lifelong learning, motivate, inspire, provide immediate qualitative feedback and give individualized feedback to parents and paraprofessionals. Students need to be reading, writing, engaging in research and engaging in discussions and debates. These are 21st century skills. http://americansocietytoday.blogspot.com/2011/04/facts-on-ohio-senate-bill-5.html
I agree with your observations. Technology can never replace a quality teacher. A teach can inspire and adjust in an moments of fore knowledge and technology can never do that.
Having said that, technology is critical in this information age as concepts get outdated quickly. Technology must always be the slave rather than the master.
The root cause of the american system is the compromise of meritocracy due to Unions, Tenure or outright discrimination.
Clueless Mr.Gurby
Is English your first language ?
No, English is not my first language. I am from a former third world country. I have taught in the past but I do not teach English. My strengths are not in spelling or in the use of grammar especially when chatting.
How does all this change what we are discussing here?
I believe their are several good point disscussed here. Unfortunatly i think that placing blame on teachers, unions, and the government are the easy way out. First consider the changes in American society. We were once a fairly sedentary people. The current trend in today's america is for people to change jobs up to 20 times in their lives. That mean children are moving from school district to school district and state to state throughout their K-12 education. Many of these changes are accomanied by changes in text books, curiculam requirements and testing requirements. As an example look at Math. Math is a subject that requires the student ( in order to be successful) to develop a solid understanding of the previous concept before moving to the next. You cannot be successful at algebra if you doont understand order of operations, division, addition and many other basic mathematical rules. My wife is doing her student teachin in mathematics at a high shool where the junior high schools have practiced "social promotion" which means that the students don't have to pass a class to move to the next grade. Many of these students have come into highschool without understanding the number line, order of operations, or how to show their work. So part of the issue is a lack of uniformity in teaching the subject coupled with the apparent need to promote those students to a new level to fail in when they have already failed in the previous level.
My suggestion would be to loose the empasis on classes at least when it comes to mathematics and focus on successful understanding of prerequsits or moduals which allow the student to move forward at their own pace. These should be standardized accross the entire contry so when a student moves from state to state and school to school they can successfully pick up where they left off. Lets face it. many students exiting high school having failed at Geometry or Algebra likely have failed at previous levels as well. Why not at least insure that they were successfull to the point they ended their math. We also need to decouple the schools from the text book industry. K-12 mathamatics has not appeciably changed since the turn of the last century. Why do schools have to spend extravegant ammounts of their budgets on books when they really need more teachers. Who rights textbooks/ Colledge professers who are already public employees. If a privite sector employee builds something or invents something in the same field they are working in it is usually the property of the company they work for. The public is paying for these books twice. We pay salatries to those doing the writing and then we pay the publishers 2-3 times what it costs to print and bind them.
The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Teachers are not the problem, nor are their unions. The problem is incompetent administration and management on every level. Leadership is everything! American educational leadership, among its various other faults, has consistently over many decades lowered student academic and behavioral standards to the point where they hardly now exist at all. Why should students study when they have been psychologically programmed to pass their courses without doing any work? Schools are places where teachers work hard and students relax. I've watched this decline occur over a high school teaching career spanning forty years. Teachers have zero control over educational policy and lack the authority even to control their own classrooms. If you really want to understand what is wrong with our schools, read my recent book: "A Teacher's Odyssey through the Incompetence of American Public Education: An Expose and a Solution to the Problem." Notice that Fareed, whom I greatly admire, has not invited a single teacher to take part in his report on education! No one seems to care what teachers think!
I have only been in the public education system for 15 years, but the continuous decline in expectations and accountability for students/parents seems to increase exponentially each year with "accountability" for teachers. Legal liability leaves administrators frustrated and threatened by parents who use lawsuits to bully them into allowing students to run wild with no recourse. Under the guise of "expert education" teachers are barely allowed to correct their students when they are wrong, and are expected to act passively when they are harassed or even assaulted by students. Until the US recognizes that most of them enjoy many benefits they have largely due to government and unions, not capitalism and corporations, we are doomed to fail.
You wanna fix education? You wanna fix the airlines? You wanna fix government?
Can the unions.
In support of the author of one of the previous posts, I also am deeply offended by non-educators who spend no time in the classroom, but feel more than qualified to tell me how I ought to do my job. Similarly, I am appalled by the comments of Governor Rick Scott of Florida (and those support him) regarding his views on courses of study such as Anthropology. As a college history professor, I must speak for the vital place of the humanities and the social sciences. Without history, philosophy, and yes anthropology we as a nation will produce generations of young people that may be able to add and subtract, but will lack skills that are equally important, including the ability to think critically, creatively, analytically about the complex challenges facing our nation and our world. For those who are truly interested in education in the United States, I have two suggestions. First, spend some time with teachers serving in all parts of this nation – urban, rural, inner-city, etc. – and at all levels from preschool to graduate school. If your perspective is not changed, you were not paying attention. Second, educate yourselves on the vital role played by the humanities and the social sciences.
I will suggest kids should go to school from 6 am to 8 pm and have only 3 weeks vacations per year like adults...
But Mr. Zakaria there are also other aspects of the quality of life than pure growth, growth, growth.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14784776
Let's start with the home life of some children and the parental responsibility of the parents to provide the foundation for their children in their formative years. As a teacher I often find the children do not even speak to their own parents at home as they are speaking English and the parents speak another language. They do not take advantage of the opportunities to learn English. When are the parents held accountable for their role in this process? Many of my students are 2-3 years behind and there are not enough hours in the day to overcome their home life and lack of attention at home. Often Asian students become grade level in 1-2 years after arriving here speaking no English. They will surpass other students who were born here or arrive at an early age. It is the parental support, drive, and commitment that makes the difference. The teachers alone cannot be held accountable for the entire development role in the child's life.
As for science I am told not to bother with it. It is all about the scores the schools receive for reading and math. I don't even have the basic supplies or equipment I need to teach my students. Every week I use my own money to supplement what I do in the classroom. I rarely have had a parent come and ask me what I need or how can they help. In my own son's school there are parents writing checks, volunteering in the classroom and paying for the difference in what is provided.
As a teacher, I love teaching but loathe the administration micro-managing our every minute and constant media attention telling us what we need to do is "fix the teachers". I left a good career to follow a dream. Now it is embarrassing to say what I do and where I do it as people think you are crazy for being in education.
I totally agree with you. I am a teacher too and am frustrated as well. I believe the only way for scores to go up is for teachers to have more time so students can master and keep what they have learned in class. I believe there are way too many standards to be accomplished within a year. Then yes, you have those students who come to you 1 to 2 years behind and we are to move them. I think the focus should be on the child as they begin your class and where they end up at the end of the year. If a child is 1 to 2 years behind and moves up a year, then that child has made progress. Standardized testing is good but they need to cut it down to the basics and have students master the basics before moving on the the next standard. I as a teacher truely love to teach and really get into it but then there's friendly reminders stressing the standardized tests and what you are doing to make sure they master all the standards. OMG, students will never master all the standards if we continue to teach to the test. They really need to ask teachers what the problems are instead of people with the money. Money isn't going to fix the problem. Teaching to the children until they have mastered it will and if more time is needed then so be it. People need to get off our backs and walk into classrooms and spend a day to see what we go through on a daily basis.
A good teacher never complains about the quality of the students. Standardization has it purpose as when there is no accountability or performance yardstick, everyone loses. The role of the teacher is keep inspiring and motivating the child. If the dedication is there, you will be able to transform even the worst.
There are no bad students only bad teachers. It just mean that you are operating at the job rather than the profession level.
My response is to one of Gurby's posts above. He/she says that there are not bad students, there are bad teachers. Yes, there are some unqualified teachers in the school system, as well as there are bad doctors, politicians , bankers, lawyers, etc. But the statement that there are not bad students is ridiculous. I have had students taken to jail from my classroom. There are many students that need medical evaluations to detect learning disabilities. Ther are kids who have fallen so far behind that they are completely lost and disinterested. Try to teach Algebra 2 to a group of students who don't know how to divide 100 by 10. And this is not an exaggeration. THERE ARE BAD STUDENT, as well as hopeless patients, whose disease has progressed to the point they can't be cured.
My response is to one of Gurby's posts above. He/she says that there are not bad students, there are bad teachers. Yes, there are some unqualified teachers in the school system, as well as there are bad doctors, politicians , bankers, lawyers, etc. But the statement that there are not bad students is ridiculous. I have had students taken to jail from my classroom. There are many students that need medical evaluations to detect learning disabilities. There are kids who have fallen so far behind that they are completely lost and disinterested. Try to teach Algebra 2 to a group of students who don't know how to divide 100 by 10. And this is not an exaggeration. THERE ARE BAD STUDENT, as well as hopeless patients, whose disease has progressed to the point they can't be cured.
There are no bad students?? LOL. What planet are you from? Student behavior is THE number ONE obstacle to student learning. This is coming from someone who has TOP classroom management.
I have been an educator since 1970. In that time I have seen a change in parents response to education and teachers. Parents no longer care, it is the fault of the teachers that their child does not learn. I believe that it will take a concerted effort to have our society recommit to learning and the value of learning.
Is this nation committed, I think not. How do we hope to improve when teachers are being laid-off, salaries are being reduced and furlough days mandated that further reduce days for instruction.
I agree that parents just do not care anymore. I am tired of everyone blaming teachers.... they are only the half of it. Since 1979 when I began teaching, the commitment of family to education has gone by the wayside regardless of socioeconomic group. There are too many "activities" and "technology" competing for students' time.
Our post high school education is second rate as well. I recall my oldest daughter's comments after her freshman year, "I thought college was supposed to have the best teachers." Well we may pay the most but we have much more experience and a more stringent evaluation system at the elementary public school level than most of the professors in their colleges. A Masters degree or higher does not equal a great instructor at any level.
The role parents play in the education of their children cannot be overstated. When children are taught it is more important to attend little league practice than do their homework, they are learning that school really isn't that important. Extend the school year? That's a great idea, however, even with a school year in San Diego limited to 175 days, parents still pull students out of the school to take vacations, go to Disneyland, or just to chill out with a non-custodial parent who want to share "quality" time with his or her child. College for everyone? If everyone is able to get into college, college isn't what it is supposed to be, a place for scholars. Providing technical education in high school should be considered. Students graduate from high school with no marketable skills and are forced to attend expensive private training programs to get entry level job skills. Many of these tech schools only require a GED for admission, so even lower performing high school students are able to successfully complete these courses if they bother to show up. Students themselves must commit to their own educations. They need to show up to school and do their work. No one else can do this for them.
What you are mentioning in regard to technical education I have been tiring people listening to it from me as well. I am in total agreement with you in this. How to implement it is the question. We are making believe everyone is a college academic oriented child; well nature does not work like that. We all have different talents and abilities, that a system like this is not acknowledging for political reasons. It is very difficult to find a person that can do a technical work backed up by an education other that learned by 'trial an error'. We need to honor intelligence and abilities in many ways, and not because of that to believe that one is better than the other. Different abilities complement each other in a net of a functioning society, ignoring that is the result where we are now. In S. Korea parents are yes, involved, but not in criticizing teachers, but expecting the children to fulfill the demands of the classroom. Here we waist millions of dollar in fostering an archaic concept of 'American Dream', that is as logical consequence becomen a nightmare. Yes, we need more technical schools (and a student can come back for academic work later if he/she matures later for the challenge) that creates people with skills they want to pursue and serve a society that knows how things work. But, maybe it is also politics not to promote a strong apprentiship in education? Worthy to look into it.
I agree let's utilize the four years of high school and offer real life job training. A high school diploma is no longer worth anything and if your not going to go on to college, those with just a high school diploma end up on welfare. The jobs are no longer there for high school graduates as they use to be 60 years ago. Take out the football, sprots and junk courses, let's get down to job training and preparing students for college. Students can participate in sports at the local YMCA or other community centers. School work comes first, is does in our household, and we push our child to do well in school but are getting knocked down by the school for wanting more science and math courses. Were being told no, you have to have drama. So our fear is the next step up in math will be unsucessful due to the lack of cooperation with the school and the time being wasted in drama that is much needed for math.
My comment concerns the Secretary of Education's appearance on Sunday, Nov.6. He was full of political rhetoric which we have been hearing for years. First: we are not like European countries in size . We have a system where every community is responsible for it's education curriculum and every state finances education differently. In New York we use property taxes. In the South many use sales taxes which can be very unstable.
Second: his comments on not living in an agrarian economy and needing a longer school year did not take into account that many students need summer and after school hours for jobs. No, they don't plow fields anymore but especially in this economy they need part time work.
Third: The statistics cited on college graduation may be a reflection of the outrageous cost of higher education. It is simply out of reach for many immediately out of high school. Some choose to work to save money for college.
Fourth: His comment about teacher pay. Teacher pay is different in every state and in every community. Teachers in the state of Georgia have had paycuts and furlough days. Like the rest of us they are working harder for less money.I feel teaachers should be paid well but like a corporate employee they should be able to be replaced if they are not competent. There should also be a national standard for curriculum and salary and financing education. The government can't just throw money at school districts and hope it gets used properly.
Fifth: the Secretary of Education did not mention parent involvement in their children's education or the student's willingness to learn and make learning more important than sports programs. They are probably more likely to get a sports scholoarship to college than an academic one or at least gain admittance to a college if they are good at a particular sport.
Sixth. Children are not mini-markets to work 24/7...
Passing the blame to parents or students or system will not solve America's problem.
I will only hire a teacher who is willing to say that 'I will be able to inspire every child under my care to improve himself'. You simply need the right technique to handle the different type of students.
Clearly we can do better in terms of drop-out rate and reading and math proficiency. There are many contributing factors including overly simplified suggestions as solutions from non-educators.
As a veteran educator having been in education since the late 70's and a student before that, some of the issues I see are:
1. Discipline: It is next to impossible to discipline bad teachers or dIfficult students. Bad teachers have rights, and while schools are working for weeks, months, even years to get rid of them, students are suffering under their bad teaching. A child can never regain the time spent under the tutelage of a bad teacher. It is also next to impossible to discipline students. A few parents come in and scream at teachers and principals for asking students to comply with dress codes or other school rules. A few aggressive parents take the time and energy of teachers and principals that could be focused on student learning. In all of your discussion, I have heard no call for parents to support schools. All I hear is that schools need to support them. The burden seems to be on the schools, when in reality, successful schools historically have been a partnership between home and school.
2. Those with the power to manage funds keep taking money from public schools and asking us to do more with less. Shops have no teachers because those teachers have been cut. Children needing counseling can't get it because those positions have been cut. Charter schools (who get to pick and chose who they will educate, and they do; who get to pick and chose their curricula, and they do) keep getting more and more public money, and, guess what? They are statistically getting about the same results as the rest of us.
So, yes, Bill Gates, Et. Al., keep sending money. Become a teacher and deal with the day to day realities, or at least while you are taking your kids to museums and laying that oh so important educational foundation, understand that we in public education educate EVERYONE who walks through our doors, even those who get to us with no foundation, and we listen to the screaming parent, and yes, we keep the bad teacher around too long.
Hello. I am writing to introduce an idea for kids in school. The Study
Hard Card. Kids in school will have a card similar to a credit card.
Depending on their grades the kids will be able to get points on their
cards. Every year the kids will be able to use the points on their
cards to purchase clothes, shoes, school supplies or whatever else is
available. Kids have to maintain A's and B's to get points. What do you
think??? Was hoping you may know someone too help get this idea going. I hear Bill Gates is big on improving education right now. Thanks David.
David,
If there was a way to make this happen, it would be through Bill Gates. Did you send it to him? I am a teacher and teach third grade and my third graders would be totally into learning with something like this. I could explain that their job is to come to school and master what is taught in the class and their pay would be points put on their credit card, sort of like a real pay check. I'm not sure how you would get something like this started but I think it is an awesome idea. Also you think about these parents who aren't involved in their child's life, maybe if they find out a credit card would go towards helping them with clothing, school supplies, etc.
The debate goes on and on about how terrible the U. S school system in comparison to other countries. Journalists and politicians are constantly harping on all the U.S. do not do right. The first problem is that the United States does not have a school system. Our schools are state controlled and within each state are school districts and counties that are responsible for the schools on a local level. To compare U.S. schools to other countries is absurd. The United states has 50 separate systems and countless more within those. The second problem is how we compare, and rank the U.S. schools with other countries. What I never hear is how pretty much all other countries in the world track students for vocational and academic programs. More often than not, the students that are tested, and the consequent test results, are skewed toward their top performers and do not include a total representation of the student population. The U.S. tests ALL of their students, thereby lowering average scores, as well as presenting a more accurate picture of the TOTAL student population, not just our best academic performers. I taught in public schools in Florida for 25 years and have been a teacher at the best schools in Costa Rica for the past 11 years. When I saw the ranking of countries' schools , Costa Rica was ranked 23 and the U.S. 26. I knew then that the "statistics" and "facts" that are being reported by, well-meaning I am sure, people like Fareed Zakaria were very flawed. As I said, I have been teaching in Costa Rica for many years. I first came to CR believing what I read in the tourist books and what CR reported to the world. The truth is altogether something else. This is not reported, and almost impossible to verify but upwards of 60 to 70% of Costa Rican students only complete their 6th grade level. That is what is compulsary in Costa Rica. Consequently, the scores that we get are based on their high school population of about 30% of the total student population. Of these a huge number go to the large number of private schools that exist in CR and not the public schools. Quite honestly, I have also found that the "best" schools in CR (one I worked at for 5 years touts themselves as the best international school in Central America) are considerably inferior to the public schools that I taught in in Volusia County, Florida. It is just a ridiculous notion that Costa Rica schools are superior to almost any school in the U.S., but that is what is claimed, and believed. Also remember that the total population of Costa Rica is less that 5 million. That is true for most of the countries on the "list". Comparing those countries to the U.S. is comparing apples and oranges. There is just no validity to it.
I am a career teacher (I a currently in my 37th year and I am as current as any new graduate) and that is something teachers are not supposed to say. In the eyes of many that means that I am incapable of being successful in anything else (I have been involved in many successful ventures in my life and continue to explore activities other than teaching). I have endured the 90's when the big push in the United States was to recruit successful business people with the idea that successful people outside education would be what saved us. It turned out that the skill set necessary to teach effectively is quite specific and involves pedigogical knowledge and expertise that non-educators do not necessarily possess.
Do I believe that U.S. schools can, and should be made better? Of course. The years of George Bush, no child left behind, and constant testing have had devastating effects on U.S. schools. The inequity of fund dispersal for schools, based on property value and taxes needs to be rethought, and paying teachers, based on performance that can be verified (that is the difficult part – how do we evaluate teachers based on student progress who teach the most difficult or those that teach the brightest who already test at the top? I taught in both those exceptionalities during my career in the States) are critical areas to be addressed. If you want the best, schools need to pay for the best.
I could go on forever, but you get the point. Let's focus on the good that our schools, and educators do and identify specific ways that we can improve our performance. Let's stop comparing ourselves to others who do honestly test, or report for those purposes and celebrate all the incredible things that our dedicated teachers do on a daily basis.
Miahael, your words mean so much to me. I graduated in 2000. When I entered the classroom I considered myself a "practicing" teacher. Much like a doctor or an attorney . The shock came when everything I learned was wrong! The education I obtained was not needed because there were "experts" at the federal,state and local level telling me how to teach, what to teach, how to manage behavior and tons of other unrelated things to do. I have struggled with what I know is developmentally approiate and what is demanded of me. The kick is after everyone telling me what and how to teach they decide I am a bad teacher. I was never able to be a teacher. The most recent years they give us scripts to read. Now tie my pay to student achievement !
While you may have some special abilities, the collective experience filter out from years of teaching cannot be totally ignored.
The trick is how to be innovative within the bounds of the systems evolving out of collective and time series wisdom.
I saw firsthand how a newcomer not familiar with the system, completely changed the way things were done with disasterous consequences. There needs to be a fine balance between having a tried and proven system and trusting that every new teacher is going to be God's gift to mankind. It simply does not work this way.
The challenge is for you to create the niche within the system
First of all, we are missing the point by only looking at test scores. As long as we are comparing test scores, we will always be "behind". American society does not compare with South Korean society. We are (supposed to be) built on freedom, individuality, creativity and innovation. Secondly, if we want better teachers then we need to pay them accordingly. Teachers are already highly educated but they are poorly paid. Many potential teachers choose different careers for that very reason. You get what you pay for, America.
I think test scores are important. We were much more innovative back in the 70s when our education system kicked ass.
I LOVE IT ALL COMMENT
pay off your student loans,it was a waste of money.
obama collection agency will get you.
south korean and other asian countries leading in education is because generally speaking as a society, they tend to invest more in education...especially the family. education is seen as the only way to escape poverty & improve one's lifestyle. Most asian countries do not have a welfare system like in western countries..so when you become unemployed, no one's there to take care of you...it's all up to you! so from childhood, children understand the importance of education and how it's gonna affect their future. i'm from india and parents in India too tend to invest a lot(emotionally, financially) in their children's education! People with higher education enjoy immense respect among their community so everyone pretty much aspires to finish college in India(if they can afford to).
Many comments pointing fingers and placing blame. Yet few showing support for what is right, with looking at what works and giving praise to those who work tirelessly to educate our children. Teachers deserve our praise and support. Parents love their childten and are working to do better. CNN is doing us a favor by bringing attention to education. Thank you all for your tireless efforts. Now lets join forces and help each other. You have our support.
Parents have to increase their standards. Schools have to also. Raise the bar for educators to enter the classroom. The top of their class gets the job. “teachers are not taught on how to teach”. So I suggest that new teachers have a secondary course they have to take in order to say they have a sort of doctorate, or professional name in teaching. Which gives them the professional edge, and these teachers would also get the respect they deserve, and the pay. Plus be first hired. They become ninjas in teaching. One year or two extra in College and one school year apprenticeship in the classrooms with only the highest success rated teachers in each school district.
I am happy that there is media coverage about education in general, but I would be more excited if someone would ask me, an elementary principal and previous teacher, what I think. It would be great if educators could have more input, or just as much input as politicians and businessmen. I think it would be great if someone would head up taking advice from actual educators.
A summary of my thoughts: 1.) Increasing educator wages/ attract the best 2.) Have merit pay based on standardized test AND how far a student grows from point A. to point B. 3.) Don't be afraid to offer excellent and more frequent professional development 4.) Make teacher education programs more rigorous and require a Masters Degree within five years 5.) Offer teachers more guided planning time and time to go over assessment data to drive instruction 6.) Take tenure away and let other incentives motivate teachers to want to grow (however, have clear standards that would not let administrators fire teachers without many steps to improve).........7.) Let parents understand that expectations are high and they are not allowed to try intimidate teachers because they do not like a grade card 8.) Require parents who collect state benefits to volunteer "so much" in their school, require their children to have a high standard of attendance (in order to collect those benefits) 9.) Make the school year longer/school day longer (another reason to pay educators more). 10.) Small classrooms, especially in the elementary. Within 20 years of new, higher expectations our education system could be significantly improved.
If CNN does not contact you... will you contact me I would love to do a interview with you. It will be a text interview. Just reply here. I will give you the contact information.
I think you have addressed most of the serious issues and I agree with most of them except those on parents.
Parents will always remain an external factor beyond your control. It requires great maturity to handle this area and I am sure good principals or administrators will know how to manage this aspect. Giving too much blame to parents or authority or credit to teachers will end up being abuse by mediocre teachers.
Principals must inspire teachers to take their students quality(and their parents as a given). It is the schools mission to transform even the worst student. Finding or allowing an excuse on this aspect will only serve to breed mediocracy.
I would like to add that Unions should be held at arms length from adulterating the principle of meritocracy. The hiring process should be purely based on meritocracy and competency. It is the most important issue that should be fixed in America.
One solution is early parent-child intervention. Education starts at home from birth. Students need to be prepared when they start school. Parents need support and help to be their child's first and most impt teacher.
I went through the school system 25 years ago and I went on to earn a BS/EE degree.
What's changed over the past 25 – 30 years? I learned well and so did my siblings and friends...
How can america prosper if marriage and parental instability continues to grow exponentially?
Hi,
Can someone tell me who the author was the was presented and the name of the books?
thanks
amazon.com/Death-Great-American-School-System/dp/0465014917
The education system is being reinvented as I write this note. The object of education will not be what you remember or learn, but what you do with the information you learn from available worldwide via the internet. Remembering things is not that important anymore because of computers. You just have to know how to search, decipher and do things with the information your involved with. What you do with the information and how you use it is what is important in the future. A diploma won't mean beans, when you apply for a job your computer skills are what will be evaluated. All the facts known are available thru the internet. What you do with this info is what's important and will create the future.
Thank you for your show tonight Fareed! It was very important... Kevin McMahon, Northport, NY... Stoomzee.com
Dear Fareed, I regret that you neglected to make any comparisons with your neighbour, Canada. We followed Korea and Fnland in the PISA results and yet we have similarities of history, diversity , length of school day and school year. We have had for decades more immigrants per capita than any other country in the world and our city of Toronto has been declared the most multicultural city in the world by the United Nations, Not only did Canada rank fourth of the 65 nations in the study but yet agaion , more importatnly, the gap in achievement between the students from higher income families and low income families was the narrowest of any nation, confirming this incredible achievement from previous PISA studies. Hogher than either Finlanbd or Korea!
Further while the US nd UK attract their teachers from the bottom third of university graduates as mentioned re USA,, we continue to attract teachers from the top third of graduates.. And our acceptance rate is often one in twenty. As well, Canada has the highest post secondary attendance rates of. any nation. Not mentioned was the financing of schools. Unlike many jurisdictions in the USA students are funded equally across each province. A child in inner city of toronto is assigned the samne amoput as a student in a wealthy suburban neighbourhood outside the city. For example In Ontario every student regardless of location is financed with the same dollar formula and then boards are adjusted for factors such as transportation, special needs and levels of poverty. and yet our total costs per student are well below yours. I think it is a pity that your viewers did not have the opportunity to see comparisons with a neighbour with very similar conditions yet achieved such different results.
Jerry Diakiw I am a former superintendent of schools outside Toronto and I currently teach in the Faculty of Education at York University
Yes I agree, why not just look north to see a different superior education system. We are ex-pat Canadian's living on Long Island and the minute we moved here all we heard was that in the USA you get educated according to your zip code, so sad but so true. Kids here should maybe spend as much time on their studies as they do on sports along with the $$ parents spend on private tutors and coaches in hopes of getting a scholarship. Crazy way of thinking. Testing here in NY have taking the ability out of teachers to think out of the box, all they worry about is that their kids do well on the test. No wonder research show kids go to university so unprepared.
I have lived in Massachusetts and in Ottawa. I still have children studying on both sides of the border.
I may agree that while the Canadian education may be more equitable in terms of funding, I am not convince that there are no problems in Canada. I would say that the Canada's problem are even more serious.
The Unions in Canada will continue to ensure that poor quality remain in the education system. The education system here is dysfunctional because there is an oversupply of teachers and the senior teachers simply do not want to retire. Canada teaching system has a lot more artificial barriers to entry and still operates based on discriminatory practices of hiring friends of friends rather than based on meritocracy.
On Maths and Science I must add that it is still as bad if not worst than the situation in America.
I would not wish away the lack of quality teachers in Canada. I think we should scrutinize the ranking rather that be comfortable with the situation here.
Khan Academy is nothing new. Scholastic located here in the US has had computer programs for the last 15+ years for reading and math. Khan mimics the Scholastic program called Read 180, Fast Math and System 44. All three are computer programs where students work at their own pace and their own leveled ability based on computer generated assessments. It is a program you should look into and feature on your program the next time you do a segment on education. Also when you compare our system with other countries; you might address the differences in classroom behaviors. Here in the US we don't kick students out for obscene behavior. Other countries do. Students in other countries do not curse or misbehave in the classroom like some students do here. We educate all students no matter what or how they behave, other countries don't. Teachers are also highly respected and paid much better in other countries then here in the US. The message is clear...education does not matter here in the US.
I just finished watching your special on American schools' decline and I find your closing statements and assessment that American teachers aren't as good as they were in the 70's astounding! You did not prove that point in the program. You forget about the lack of parent involvement in poor schools. You forget about the discipline problems. You covered Bill Gates ideas and also the assembly line type of education, but they expose fell far short of what is really plaguing the school system in America these days. Your conclusions were not founded. You should have left it with complaring Finland's and South Koreas' school systems with ours and the parent factor.
I couldn't agree more.
This Special was a beautiful piece on education in the States. This gave me a lot of things to think about...
We need to push this reform through while the complainers are stuck countering every argument that was given here.
The "parents" today cannot be changed so I agree with those saying that the lack of parenting is a major problem right now.... but I am hoping that fixing the education system will change future parents so that this problem
can also be fixed by staying on this course. I am so excited that this might actually be happening ...
I am proud to say that I teach in a school district that has a vision for 21st Century Learning. McAllen ISD is collaborating
with Apple and Abilene Christian University in a revolutionary project called TLC3: Transforming Learning in the Classroom, Campus, and Community. The goal is to put a device in every child's hand which they can use at home as well as in school.
We acknowledge the need for 21st Century Skills and believe they can be learned by creating a new pedagogy of learning and teaching. We are confident that Challenge Based Learning and Mobile Technology will help us reach our goal.
No Mention of Montessori Education. Sir Ken Robinson and Mr. Zakaria talked about the need for a reform from the factory model to an individualized approach, encouraging creativity, problem solving, letting students move at their own pace, mixed age groups, children tutoring each other. All of these are attributes of Montessori schools. Ove 100 years ago Maria Montessori layed the foundations of the revolution needed. There are incredible private and public Montessori school around the country. The Governments of China and Thailand are sponsoring training in the Montessori method, yet here in the US a program like that is aired without even Mnetioning Montessori. The founders of Google and Wikipedia and many more creative giants give credit to their Montessori schooling. How can you ignore it? The on line tech school mentioned in the program, would not work for young children and elementary aage children who need hands on experiences. Montessori has effective tools and a philosophy of education for each individual child through the years from birth to adulthood. Check it out, Mr. Zakaria, for your own children and the future of education in this country.
Teachers are an easy scape goat but are not the problem. In the state I live a minimum of a bachelor’s degree plus certification is required. If you’re a department head you most likely have a master’s degree. However teacher’s wages are not reflective of their education or their job performed. If we really cared about education in our country it would be reflected in the amount of money we spend on it. Instead we are firing teachers and cutting school’s budgets while expecting more from them. If you want better results from our schools, increase the wages of our educators which will increase the pool of people that would be interested in teaching. Also increase the budgets of schools and reduce the number of students in class rooms. If a teachers has 30 children in a class too much of their time will be spent on discipline and too little will be spent on teaching.
We're all prone to seek that silver bullet solution to the challenge of education but the reality is that, as Fareed suggests, we need a system approach to what is a systemic problem. We cannot blame one thing on the crisis we now face. More importantly, there is likely not one solution for all situations. But we can start with an honest dialogue and I thank Fareed and GPS for adding depth, insight and understanding to the conversation.
Ultimately, I think we have a challenge (or crisis) of values. We live in a society that values (and pays) actors and athletes far more than most others (yes, they are people too). But ask yourself what might happen if government officials (yes!) and teachers were among the highest paid in our society. What if legions of the absolute best and brightest were attracted to public service in new ways?
Once again, the experts are excluded. I am a teacher. Why aren't you contacting the National Board for Professional Teaching Standards for input? They have the answers, and they are supported by rigorous research.
I want to work with excellent teachers, and I often find that our administrators are afraid to get rid of the weak ones, even though there is a process that works to do that. I find Bill Gates's response (above) interesting. He thinks all it takes to be a good teacher is to "engage" the students? A comedian can do that. Where is the demand for teachers who have degrees in what they teach? Where is the demand for studying what works, rather than having people with little or know experience in education devising turn-around plans for failing schools? Why are people demanding teacher accountability, but they have no idea which measures of accountability actually differentiate between good and bad teachers? Don't think for a moment that students are randomly assigned to classes and each teacher stands on the same starting line. Subject matter, grade level, resources, socio-economic factors, English Language Learners, gifted kids all make a difference. I can't be compared with ANY teacher in an objective, measurable way. We made the mistake of allowing/encouraging business people into our profession–people focused on production, efficiency, and saving money–they stupidly think that what works in business will work in a school. How wrong they are. Education is both an art and a science. Nobody can learn it in just a few weeks, and the alternative routes to teaching certificates are such an injustice to our students. ASK THE PROFESSIONALS what needs to be done. None better than the National Board.
Why not share how you can ensure maintaining and progressing quality teachers without comparing apples to oranges. I am sure the board share those techniques that have worked. Blaming entrepreneurs will not bring us anywhere. While it may not have been a smart thing to do, it has at least forced the rest to shape up or lose their opportunity.
What we would like to hear is how do we develop the more difficult 'art' aspect of quality teachers. You could share those ideas here without an interview
At the risk of sounding like a religious zealot, Amen.
as that lady from nyu,poverty has nothing to do with education.i came from the third world poor ,but my education did not stop there,i am americaqn algerian,we met president reagan god bless,we worked for president bush.
yes it is about teachers not the way bill look at it,corp view.you pay you teache you pay you nurse.
you pay you run.
I am not so sure about using new technology as way to bring education levels up. Technology can be part of it, but it shouldn't be the place to start. I think the elementary schools are proceeding too slow in math and science. The average child who has done well in math in elementary school, and is looking at college, needs to take summer school, or local community college courses during the summer to catch up. There are 6th graders in Pre-algebra in the local community colleges during the summer, and the summer before 9th grade starts the Algebra I summer class is filled with 8th graders. I don't see any way the kids behind in science right now can catch up. And these are just the kids who are ambitious and studious, and whose parents care enough, and have the means to help them. If the most ambitious are playing catch up, what happens to all those kids and parents who are just trusting in the system?
The Education System, By Kevin T. McMahon
The education system is being reinvented as I write this note. The object of education will not be what you remember or learn, but what you do with the information you learn from available worldwide via the Internet. Remembering things is not that important anymore because of computers. You just have to know how to search, decipher and do things with the information your involved with. What you do with the information and how you use it is what is important in the future. A diploma won't mean beans – when you apply for a job your computer skills are what will be evaluated. All the facts known will be available in real time throughout the Internet. What you do with this info is what's important and will create the future of things from your kitchen sink to the International Space Station and beyond. Education is a moving picture in the future – not a snap shot by any means. It will change on a real time basis. We will gradually merge our ideas and thoughts through the Internet via our technologically advanced computers, chips implanted into your brains and much, much more. So fasten your seat belts and get ready for the ride of your lifetime. "The snowball effect" will make things change faster than most people could ever imagine. This is my quickly written analysis of the situation and the way to fix the education system is simply to realize the changes that are here and coming via the powers of the world wide web. Bottom line is you will become more creative as you engage and interconnect with the world via the computer. If your out of work or a postal worker or teacher grades 6th an up your jobs will become much less needed and many of you will need to be able to work from your homes as the entire education system and concept of what is important to learn will challenge you to become unique and creative as to offer your services in some kind of way via the computer... mark my words and be prepared. Consolidate your living expenses, fasten those belts and get ready to learn a few thing from your kids in the future... that's my 2 cents for now....Take it or leave it!... KTM
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/05/gps-special-fixing-education/#comment-140367
The real truth is that we want more and more people to be stupid and ignorant low wage low ambition dunces, we don't want people to be smart and want money for the work they perform. We want them to sit on their butt when they lose their jobs and be broke, we don't want them to have clue as to what is being done to them and how they were used and discarded. Smart people ask questions and make trouble, better to let them think they are something while we make them in to nothing. http://tombstone001.blogspot.com/2006/08/death-to-amrica-education.html
STEM classes are not the solution. Look at your average High School schedule. Six classes per day. With fours years of math, english, science, history and a foreign language, that leaves ONE elective. This elective is usually taken up with PE, health, and Driver's Ed. Which leaves just one semester free for any elective in a four year period, without summer school.
In my time we had 8 periods a day. Five taken up by the subjects you mention: math, english, science, history and a foreign language. Add Lunch. PE. I was able to fit in Technical Electricity for 3 of the years. Sorry I only had French for 2 years. I dont see why you think this is impossbile, just have to work..
THE BEST WAY TO GET RID OF BAD TEACHERS IS TO HAVE STUDENTS THAT WANT TO LEARN AND PARENTS THAT ASK EDUCATION RELATED QUESTIONS ( not sports and cheer leading, or why my kids have home work)
Fareed's fundamental idea is wrong, that "Education is the engine of mobility. " Before education can offer a way to better jobs, someone has to first create those jobs. It is the decline in jobs of all types that is suffocating the American economy and social mobility. Witness the high unemployment rate among current college grads. The fact that non grads are even worse off is irrelevant. Focusing on education is a distraction from the need to focus on what is really the problem. It is escapism.
Having commented on most of the post, I felt I should summarize my viewpoints.
Admitting that there is a serious problem within the education system is the first step forward. There should no be any sacred 'policies' that cannot be discussed.
Blaming parents, students, administrators or systems for the problems in the profession of teaching is a self defeating exercise that will leave everyone no better off. A good regulator should start on the premise that they cannot control parents and therefore have to accept the quality of students they get.
What really is the art of teaching? Having done research in Montessori, I can confidently say that a lot of the clues lies in their technique. Art of anything is the appreciating human aspect of the issues. Do schools have teachers who are passionate in the profession of do they see it as a job. I dare say that depending on the challenges in our one lives, it could occasionally become a job.
Is America currently staffed with the best teachers in the world? The answer is yes for the top 1% but the quality than goes down significantly. There are still great teachers in many places but they are not given the due recognition. Instead America is plagues with a few generations where mediocracy has creeped in and is in the leadership position. This has happened and is being furthered fueled by the Unions, Tenure and Publishing of Papers systems. Meritocracy in teaching has taken a back seat and will remain that way. The first in last out policy mentioned by Fareed certain exist and is the root cause of the problem. This has been further aggravated by the global financial and security crisis which has created an inward looking and self centred mentality. Since 911, mediocracy has creeped into the system and in the name of security.
Any civilization that compromises the principles of meritocracy above all else will ultimately undo itself. It is indeed ironical that Greece, the birth place of a modern democratic system is today completely bankrupt. The years of compromising meritocratic principles and the lack of an accountable system of government will ultimately result in a failed state.
America needs to go back and read about the Declaration of Independence to learn that any system that fails to take into consideration the equality, equity principle regardless of class, color, race, gender or religion is bound to unwind itself. America is not about the artificial notion of 'nation state' of Americans but the true human spirit of equality and social justice. Translated this means the best must be hired irregardless of their nationality, race, religion, gender etc
I believe that as long as the US can attract talented immigrants, like Fareed, then fixing education will not be a priority. Why do something hard when we can rely on folks who are already educated, at no cost to us, to bring their talents here. Look at how many foreign born doctors, engineers and scientists we have working in this county. If we stopped all immigration, then we would be forced to fix our problem, until then or until talented people can do as well at home, we will just talk about it.
I watched GPS with great interest last night. I am a 30 plus yr. veteran teacher and have taught in OK and now TX; no union. The things I complain about most often are: Too many parents don't / can't care ( drug abuse or too tied up with their own self interest) about their students, or they want them to have a superior grade wether they have earned it or not. There may be little discipline at home of children or the adults themselves. Some complain the teachers are asking too much from students; sports are more important than academics.
I can't tell haw many applications for SSI are sent to teachers to fill out because someone wants a free check for themselves and their lazy or less than stellar student. We have raised a society of people that believe they are owed a living and should not have to work. I'd like to know how many illegitimate children of students in Finland and South Korea are supported by the government. Incidentally a teenage mother gets more parent leave than a working mother. It would make me a nervous wreck, but I'd love for someone tocome in and show me how to improve my teaching skills so that
There are so many things wrong with our country and education is just a barometer of society as a whole.
(to finish my thoughts) I could be more effective. I work at it daily.
As things stand now I would advise someone to think very seriously before committing yourself to this occupation. It's as frustrating for many teachers as it is for the country.
I agree that our educational system is a reflection of society and not quality or ethics of teachers.
I disagree with several points Fareed made:
The disparity between college and non college exists because degrees are used as a screen. In other words, if everyone went to college the unemployment rate would not improve.
We recruit people from other countries because the top 20% in intelligence are always going to be more desirable than
the bottom 80% and since we reward the top so well here we are a very attractive place to get a job.
We are losing jobs because we can not manufacture cheaply enough. Spending an extra 100 thousand on education per laborer is not going to help.
I doubt that a few European countries are doing better than us because of our educational system. I think it has to do with things like -better government, more equality, rational tax system, etc..
That being said I do think that our educational system can be and needs to be improved. I am encouraged by seeing instances in these reports of people trying to re-think, re-imagine education.
I also agree with some of the comments about meritocracy we always need to put excellence above job security.
My economic mobility is being caused by a poor system and not by my lack of a proper education.
having lived many places overseas, it is f ascinating to watch this scenario in the states. basically, kids go to school to learn. if the teachers are not capable of teaching, they should go. parents are responsible as much as teachers for their children's education. heard a father the other day say he didn't talk to his son much because the kid was in his room on the computer playing games all the time. WHO IS IN CHARGE THERE? the best teachers i had in both grade school (catholic school, taught by nuns - you listened or else) and high school – some were good, some not so much, but i recognized the good ones and they helped me a great deal – it wasn't just a job). oh, and another thing, the teacher should know more than the students - i am not sure that is the case in some instances. if a teacher truly loves to teach, he or she can get the class involved and not just stand in the front of the class and spout facts - make the kids think, make them excited about what they are learning. i have tutored in a rough area and found that the more i was enthralled with the topic, the more the students became interested. some teachers will start teaching with great excitement, but that slowly deteriorates into frustration - perhaps they should think about what frustrates them and work on it - it isn't up to the students.
Lack of Discipline in the USA and the UK amongst students ois the main cause. American kids are too brash and English kids are plain yobos. Teacher's hands are tied by the Politicians who are too scared of Human Right Activists, tree huggers and bleeding hearts. Look at Asia – they know education is important therefore they study.
Eddie Hejka
Education is not broken: High school completion rates are at an all-time high, test scores on the NAEP are up over the past 30 years, the racial acheivement gap has narrowed, the gender gap has narrowed and even disappeared at some levels, ACT scores are up and more disabled and special ed. students than ever are finishing school.
So how did rising test scores, a narrowing achievement gap and rising completion rates come to be labeled as Failing? In part public education is being scapegoated for an economy that was ruined by well-educated private school kids from wall street and Washington. No one credited hard-working public school teachers in the 1990's when we had a budget surplus and low unemployment. No. This attempt to discredit public education is driven by a political and economic motive to priviatize education as has already been done to much of our military and prison systems much to our embarassment.
Performance is relative. Here, we are taking about comparing globally. You can keep improving internally and still be way behind the rest of the world.
I
I'll admit I did not read all the comments but what I did read reminded me of the first thing we need to do to fix education in America. Admit we have a problem. America, wake up! The world has passed us by and unless we do something about from top to bottom we will never catch up.
Math is all logic and IQ especially in elementary school and HS. USA doing bad in maths means their kids are stupid.
It is a given in any school district in America, that it desires to hire the most qualified individuals to ensure success. It is also a common practice that when it comes to hiring, schools place great preference on former graduates, local residency, and of course, cost factors. School boards want to bring locally educated students back to their community. If the choice were between the most highly educated individual and an alumnus, the choice is usually for the alumnus. Is the individual willing to coach? Head up a special program? Lead the play? Academics again, will take second preference. Schools in America were developed based on local control through local boards and this is reflected in hiring practices. The further the hiring is distanced from a school, the more the complexion of that school is changed. So perhaps if a school does not like how it is performing, instead of blaming its staff, it should be looking into its hiring practices. This needs to be addressed in discussions on "fixing education."
I missed the GPS prime time special, and it's not available on demand? What are we living in the 90s!!! If this information is so valuable, why not share it as widely as possible.
Mr Zakaria,
I do not understand why you are seeking answers on "fixing education" from non-educators who do not have the experience to be experts. Bill Gates is not an educator, so why look to him? Would you go to a teacher to ask about transforming the world of technology?
I taught for many years in Japan, a society that reveres education much like Korea. Frankly, I was not impressed by the teaching I saw there. Bill Gates speaks of teachers "engaging" students as being the most important factor. What I saw in Japan was discussion-less lectures, non-stop note taking, and students often literally asleep at their desks. I noticed that in the description of Korea's success, there is no mention at all about their teaching force. Korea and Japan succeed for societal reasons, not because of super-teachers in the classrooms.
Also, as a side note, no one ever talks about the special education students in Asia. Something that struck me in Japan is that all children with significant special needs are put into separate schools completely separated from their typically-developing peers. The children with milder disabilities are not identified or helped at all. In fact, were not special education teachers AT ALL in any of the schools I taught at. The students with disabilties simply test poorly in the high school entrance exam and are funneled into technical or vocational high schools. In addition, let's not forget that both Korea and Japan are still mainly homogeneous societies with almost no second language learners in their classrooms.
The most powerful teaching I have ever seen was in our nation's inner-city "failing" schools. But that great teaching was not enough to overcome the very real obstacles to learning caused by economic and racial isolation and disgustingly high concentrations of poverty.
If Bill Gates and his foundation invested even half of the money he puts into teacher evaluations and other unproven or failed policies into poverty-prevention programs (i.e. health clinics, quality Pre-K for all, mental health services in every school building, help for the homeless, jobs programs for parents, etc.) I think we would see immediate and important improvements in education, especially for the highest-needs students.
Mr. Zakaria, please do your job as a reporter and start asking harder questions. Dig deeper and see that the current education "reformers" a la Michelle Rhee, are not improving anything. In fact, they are doing serious damage to public education and the children it serves by attacking the very people doing the work of education. I am extremely disappointed by this superficial and flawed special.
I usually agree with almost everything Fareed says, but this I strongly disagree. I’ve taught in the Korean public school system for about 2 years and I’ve learned that Koreans students' high test scores have nothing to do with the teachers or the public school system in South Korea. President Obama and others who compare the US system to Korea are leaving out a very important component. ***Korean parents have enrolled their students into several private after school academies*** There is an obvious divide between academy students and non-academy students in the public classrooms. Therefore, this information automatically discredits Fareed’s argument. Some flaws I’ve noticed in the ROK public school system: 1) Students don’t have to pass their tests to move up to the next grade.
2) No laws supporting teachers in the classroom, so they are tired and unmotivated. 3) Lack of disciplinary system in the public schools. Corporal punishment is recently outlawed in Korea, but no alternative methods were suggested to replace it. Leads to, 4) Lack of leadership in all levels. ... just to briefly name a few.
Agreed. I am from India and we have the same thing. It is the parents that make a difference not the teachers or the schools.
did I mention there are about 40 students per classroom for each teacher
Finland has three Nobel prizers, but S. Korea has zero.
No need to learn from S. Korea.
Well, S. Korea has one.... just one Nobel Peace Prize...
still no need to learn from S. Korea.
I'm curious about the student population in these countries. I didn't notice any mention of the prevalence of ADHD in the S. Korean or Finnish students. Do these countries identify students with ADHD? Do they insist on medicating students like many US school districts require?
The poblem is lack of ambition, too many americans that I've met are happy just getting by, they rather work at McDonaldsfor 20 years and complain about it that put some effort and sacrifice for 4 years of college and then get a great job. That's the parent's fault with that mindset of just do what makes you happy crap when the harsh reality is that you need to do what makes you money first and then happy second. Where there is ambition there is a way.
Bull, no one if flipping burgers at McDonalds because they are to lazy to go to college.
It is easy to blame teachers for our children's faults, but it is the parents that undermine education in the USA. They don't teach the children how important math and science is. They are so proud that their prince or princess is graduating high school that they throw huge celebration like it is a big achievement. I work in higher education where parents are upset because their precious children are unemployable even with a degree. What do you expect when you major in art or music history?
You cannot compare teachers of these successful countries without comparing the parents.
Very well done program. I'd like to tell others about it, but haven't found anything online to tell me when it will be replayed here in the Los Angeles area. Can you please reply via email? Thank you.
That life is NOT fun all of the time, that people have to accept responsibility to teach their children values and responsibility, and that children are expected to accomplish the goals set out for their success.
I saw a portion of the "Restoring the American Dream: Fixing Education", couldn't record it but think it would be invaluable for a young college student who is majoring in education. How can I get a copy? Thanks.
The whole "reform" movement is based on antipathy and animosity towards teachers. This in itself is a symptom of a lack of respect for the profession that makes an increasingly difficult job even more difficult.
Imagine 150+ children coming through a classroom smaller than one room in Bill Gate's house... Now imagine half to all of those kids coming from economically disadvantaged households (in California, the statewide average is 60% of students qualify for free or reduced price meal program).
The teacher needs to be supported not attacked. So-called "teacher quality" has only a minor influence on student outcomes. I think the number is 4-8% of student achievement can be correlated to individual teaching excellence.
The major factors are socioeconomic class, family environment, and peer group. The last means the students going to the school have a huge impact on each other's achievement. Put a poor student in a school surrounded by good students, and s/he is statistically destined for success.
Socioeconomic and family factors likely are indicators or two other large impact factors- language experience and parenting style. A human's brain is largely formed by the age of 3. At this time, an environment characterized by linguistic deprivation and/or traumatic/neglectful experiences pre-program the child's brain to failure in a school environment.
Linguistic deprivation is correlated with economic disadvantaged families.
The power elite will never accept this scientific reality as it indicates more of a problem with social class than that of "poor teaching."
What can South Korea and Finland.....two ethnically monolithic nations.....actually teach the United States about education? How many millions of illegal aliens from a third world nation live in Finland? How many violent, drug-addicted minorities live in South Korea?
we should fix our education the government should do something abot it they should fix it and the 2012 presidential election is the time spread the problem about education and this issue
This is what happens when you drop the ball
Here's what you didn't mention about education in South Korea. After little Cho Sung-do gets out of his school at 4, he goes home for long enough to get a snack (maybe) then goes to a Hakwon (private school). There he studies any variety of subjects that that particular hakwon specializes in (think English, Math, Science, or Music) then rides the bus to another one... then maybe another one. Sung-do will arrive home usually without any real form of dinner around 9PM. Then he will start his homework from these 3-5 different schools. If he's a bright kid, he may finish by 1 AM then he'll pop up again at 6AM wishing that the sun just wouldn't come up while he jumps rope, just this once. I currently teach three 7 year olds that have this schedule in South Korea. We actually call one of them a robot, because she can no longer function without input, she has no animus whatsoever. The worst part is, no matter how hard they work at it, because I went to a crappy American school I will always be more independent, creative, and socialized than they could ever hope to become. Test scores aren't everything guys.
I agree with you, James. As a Korean American who's had some experience teaching in both the US and S. Korea, I can say that I don't think we should try to copy the Korean educational system. I've seen little elementary school kids literally cry at dinner tables because their parents were forcing them to go to several different cram schools ("hagwons")–on top of tutoring and regular schooling. Many kids in high school in Korea don't come home until around midnight b/c they've been studying at hagwons and libraries all day, and then when they get home they have to do homework for their hagwons AND their regular classes. There's a saying in Korea that if you sleep 4 hours a day, you'll get into a good college, but if you sleep 5, you'll fail the entrance exam. And unfortunately, many of these kids really do get only 4 hours of sleep at night, so when they're at school the next morning, they fall asleep at their desks while their teachers are teaching them stuff that most of them have already learned at hagwons previously. There's been much talk of getting rid of the hagwon system, but it's never going to happen b/c Korean parents are crazy about wanting their kids to get a good education and staying academically ahead of their peers (not to mention, there are always people in Korea wanting to cash in on the lucrative hagwon industry...so sad, if you ask me). I mean, there are some Korean parents who go into debt just to send their kids to hagwons and hire private tutors for them. But many of these kids are so burned out by the lack of sleep and constant studying that often they can't absorb what's being taught to them. The Korean educational system is definitely not for everyone–only for the physically and mentally healthy kids with great stamina. By the time they go to college, they're so burned out and eager to leave their ordeals behind them that many of them stop studying hard and coast their way through college. It's kind of the opposite of the US–here, students are more apt to work harder in college, but in Korea, students work the hardest in high school and college is a relative breeze once you get in. There's a reason why many Korean parents want to send their kids to the US for post-secondary education. And many of them are sending their kids here at a young age to escape the brutal Korean educational system altogether (and to improve their English skills).
But I will say this in Korea's favor: in Korea, because teachers are revered, they get great pay and earn the respect of everyone. Students listen to them, so it's not hard at all to control the classroom (except for the ones who fall asleep in class)–but I never encountered a situation where a student shouted at me or I felt that I was losing control of the class. Here, in the US, I felt like most of my efforts were spent not on actual teaching but trying to keep the classroom quiet enough so that students could actually learn instead of being distracted. It didn't help either that the parents didn't seem to care much about their children's education, so the kids often didn't see the point of paying attention in class. I found that private tutoring worked well for some of the rowdier students who were falling behind–but then we didn't have enough staff who were willing to spend the extra time and energy to tutor these kids, and plus many of the parents didn't want their kids staying after school for too long. (You'd have the opposite problem in Korea–parents hiring too many tutors for their kids and wanting them to study as long as possible.) And with teachers' salaries being so low here in the US and the lack of respect for our teachers, it's hard to find a well-educated person who's willing to choose teaching as a long-term career.
So yes, there are a few things we can learn from S. Korea, but no, we shouldn't try to copy much of its educational system.
Well said!!
the educaion system in america needs upgrading students need to take courses they really need, teachers need to be paid better then they receiving now. the states, need to provide more funding, instead of canceling certain activities and programs goverment should encourage more growth towards students, lunches should be free, children need to eat good so their minds funtion better.
The reality there's nothing wrong with our educational system in middle class or upper class areas. It's the poor neighborhoods which the board of education run amok and the superintendents are corrupt and the schools are in shambles. No one cares about the poor. The school system is funded by property taxes, very few if anyone are home owners in poor area's and the taxes they pay is usually insignificant. So the schools get barely any money, It's a system designed to maintain the status quo.
wii dun ned 2 pa taxiz fer skoolz. wii kin bii hom skoold lyk wii r in da sowth. doz demokrates unly wunt 2 raz r taxiz fer skools n r tralrs. da wunt 2 tayk awhay r gunz n stuf 2. ger republikings!!!!!
Don't want South Korea's suicide rate no matter their education status. I'd rather listen to Finland. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-15331921
Whats wrong about education? The US culture is dumbing down the population. With shows like mtv and jersey shore, no matter how many times u talk about hiring better teachers and so on so forth, if the culture itself is accepting this kind of oh im not good at math, behavior instead of, how can i solve that problem? I have to work on it tonite and get 100% or close to it on my next test. Instead of worrying about partying, that zit on your face that keeps showing up because u put too much make up on, how to lose virginity before u turn 17, focus on how to get better at each subject and be able to solve a given problem. It gives a lot of satisfaction to be able to solve problems correctly, i know i enjoy it, thou as a result, my school years were sooo stressful, despite my good ranking, i decided to come to the US because its easy! Oh and btw in asia everybody is rated according to their test score, and u want to be at the top or close to it as close as u can. Its all about pride. If you get below average, u will take lessons from private tutor paid for by your parents to crank up your score. Doesnt matter if your teacher sucks, just ask your tutor and get supplemental education. R u getting enough education?
Maybe I'm missisng something???
Has anyone brought up the exclusive immigration policies found within these countries? If explored, you will see its extremely difficult to enter Finland and South Korea as an immigrant without higher education and a potential job waiting for you. As a result, these countries have more resilient and educated immigrants who can assimilate easier. Combine them with local students and families who share similar cultural norms and expectations toward education you will find that the dominant discourse is easily mirrored in the classroom by the curriculum and teachers. In addition, if you explore statistics within the last 20 years you will see a strong negative correlation between the rise of immigration and the decline of standardized test scores within the US. Imagine 100,000 inner city youth entering the Korean or Finish school system every year. How would their education system react? How would it impact their teachers perfomace and their current high test scores we are drooling over?
At the end of the day, all teachers do the best they can!
I agree with you, KC. South Korea doesn't have that inner-city youth problem like we do here in the States, but say if we transplanted 100,000 of our inner-city youth into some of the schools in Seoul, I think those teachers would run!
I'm grateful that America's relatively open to receiving immigrants (heck, my parents are both immigrants), but I think we're starting to pay a price for accepting so many waves of immigrants over the years and trying to accommodate their needs. You don't see South Korea going to the same lengths that the U.S. does to integrate immigrants into their society and educational system. Over there, it's very much a sink or swim environment for immigrants–you either learn Korean and try to blend in with the culture as much as you can, or you get left behind. Or if you're lucky and you come from a rich, English-speaking family, maybe you could attend one of the foreign schools. Here, you have kids who barely speak English, so sometimes their teachers have to accommodate them by speaking to them in Spanish. So of course our test scores will suck–how can we do well when some of our kids don't even understand what they're being asked or taught?
On top of the better teachers and course offerings we need to make the classroom an environment for learning. But even the best teachers can't teach if the classroom is a zoo. The school system needs to be able to remove the kids who cause trouble in the classroom, disrupt the learning of others and make it difficult to impossible to perform at the level of foreign countries where kids don't rule the classrooms. Offer these kids a semester or longer in a military style boarding school where they will get the discipline they apparently are not getting at home or they are banned from school for the semester. Sine if these kids respond to the introduction of disciple and responsibility in their lives. This would save the other kids these kids pull down with them an the Military boarding school would save most of these kids from becoming dropouts. The overall result would be a dramatic improvement in the school environment. Also if you don't graduate you don't get social services, you didn't do your part so the people owe you nothing. This is the tough love our students need.
Agree–I think you have a good solution there!
Hello,
One of the biggest problems with the education system in America is that it is underfunded and teachers are overworked. When you have one teacher per 30 kids and some schools don't even have text books, how can you expect them to learn? Another big problem is the huge focus on science and math. Now don't get me wrong, those are two extraordinary important subjects, but music, art, gym class, etc are just as important. We need to focus a bit more on the creative things than we are now. How can you expect any future leader of the world to be a good and succesfull leader if he has no creativity?
Americans are not willing to learn from anybody. People do not realize we have A LOT OF parents that are unfit to breed, and yet we expect them to raise above average kids. That does not happen. You reap what you sow.
I swear to God, this issue has been talked about for YEARS, and many people have great ideas/opinions, but not a d*mn positive thing has been done yet!! We are still laying off teachers and closing schools, and as previous comments stated, many parents, especially in poorer communites, do not get involved in their childs education and they leave it up to the teachers!! So if their child fails, the school, the teachers, and the education system is to be blamed!!
The problem with education in America is that Americans stop using common sense to address multiple issues.
Acutally, the problem is that teachers are LAZY. They whine about having 20 kids in their class rooms. They complain about not having enough iPads so that students may "teach" themselves. Worst of all, every other friday is a day off school for "teacher training". It's bad enough that you get 3 months off during the summer and get to retire at 55.
Don't even get me started on the massive waste of time spent on poetry and other useless topics.
I am an adjunct professor of mathematics at a community college, teaching a course in Algebra to high school graduates who haven't mastered the material, and need to pass my course in order to be eligible to take college level math. My observations, many of which support previous posts: if student's parents don't care about their children's education, then the student's themselves will be challenged to care, do well, or achieve. The US society has a much higher poverty rate, and a much higher divorce rate. The American family is a broken family. If the US wants to fix education, it first has to fix the home, and parents need to build nuclear families that value education. My second observation, there are three ways people learn: visual, auditory, and tactile. My students are often not auditory learners. They are visual learners, or tactile learners. They could listen to me for 5 hours and still not understand fractions. They could watch Khan Academy videos for 10 hours, and still not understand scientific notation. They need to be taught in a mode that they can learn.
Regarding your program on education there were many interesting ideas. Re:Learn at your own pace this is not permitted by many state guidelines that push promotion without mastery. A part of the equation that always seems to be missing at least in poor inner city schools is the parents. Anyone can come to a public school regardless of their lack of interest in education. In the charter schools that are successful there is a selection process that screens out parents and students who don't want to be there. Think how successful anybody can be if you only admit students who want to behave and work. I would work there for free.
Bravo Adjunct in Mathematics – for stating the obvious but sadly is no longer obvious and passed over for "teach to the test" mentality, (at least in my state) I must echo sentiments made earlier that units and time dictate pace not comprehension/mastery by students. My granddaughter -6th grade still does not know the entire multiplication table. It was not required. We work on it. The KhanAcademy will be her new personal tutor. While I get that technology is the role of the future and costs of text books is a burden on district budgets – eliminating text books has played a role in degrading our education system. (I could not research a question on my granddaughters homework because there is no text book. It is from lecture and notes on overhead in classroom. The form of the question posed just did not make any sense as to what they were asking and you could not clarify it without the text. (It was shown to 4 adults and no one believed you could answer) So even when families do care and are involved with the students in their families – there are road blocks. I sat on our local school board and county Parents Advisory Committee for 6 years when my children were in school.
I have been teaching for over 25 years. In my opinion, the US will not see increased achievement until we return the responsibility of learning back to the students, return the responsibility of parenting to the parents, and demand active teaching in the classroom.
Education is the only system that has shot itself in the foot over and over again. For over 40 years, education has been about the next big best thing. Some expert determined that children learn to read whole language, so elementary teachers were discouraged from teaching phonics. Enter the generation of students who have no word attack skills. Next came the idea that students don't need to work on the fundamental processes of mathematics: addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. "Experts" said to give students calculators instead. Enter the generation of students who don't have the basic skills to support the scaffolding for higher mathematics. Another "expert" touted that students work better and were more engaged when working collectively. Enter the generation of students who cannot work independently. When an "expert" determined that students worked better when they were entertained, students actually stopped working because they expected a show in every class. Another "expert" touted that students work better with rewards. Enter the generation that refuses to work without an answer to "what's in it for me?" One of the newest big things is that students are able to absorb more information when it is read to them rather than having to read and process for themselves. Now teachers at the middle school and high school level are reading to their students.
Why don't students achieve? Because they are not required to.
I apologize for multiple posts if they appear. I have tried to post something longer twice, and it has yet to appear after 30 minutes so I am trying something shorter.
Part ll: One of the buzzwords now in education is differentiated instruction. Instead of teaching a class, a teacher is providing information and extra activities to kids so that the the teacher can focus attention on the student who needs the most help. We are supposed to create hands-on, entertaining, engaging, reward-focused, lessons with all types of supplemental activities. Classrooms are so fragmented and fractured that I am amazed that anyone has the opportunity to learn, let alone achieve. We may have differentiated instruction, but the assessment is still paper and pencil, bubble in the answer, write a short answer.
Some folks tout charter schools as the next best thing since sliced bread. Some of them may be working. They have smaller class sizes (currently, teachers in my school have approximately 50 students per class and teach five classes per day). They are allowed to remove students who disrupt. They have requirements for parents. Some kids succeed. Some don't. I have seen many students return to the public schools from the charter schools. Parents want them in advanced classes saying that their children were in advanced classes in the charter. What we find is that the students don't have the basics to perform at grade level, let alone qualify for advanced classes.
Right now schools provide both breakfast and lunch to students because of low family income. These same students come to schools with cell phones and ipods; they own x-boxes and ps3s and have access to the latest video games; they spend hours watching music videos on cable or satellite; they have multiple facebook accounts. They come to school high; they parent themselves and younger siblings; they are homeless.
Part lll: Some who lament the lack of academic achievement point fingers at unions. I don't think so. The job of a union is to protect and advocate for the workers. I have seen examples where a union has protected someone who shouldn't have been protected. I have seen good non-workers be railroaded when a union would have provided protection. Dismantling unions will not bring about an increase in academic achievement. I promise you that if you swap teachers of achieving schools with those of underachieving schools, you will not see a decrease in achievement in the achieving schools nor an increase in achievement in the underachieving ones. For those who live in the fantasy world that teachers are underworked and overpaid with summers off, walk a year in the footsteps of a teacher. Then form an opinion. I get flayed regularly on the message board of my local newspaper, yet no one has an answer this question: if teachers are overpaid, what is fair compensation for a teacher? I am paid to deliver instruction. It is assumed that I will create lessons, evaluate student work, conduct conferences, provide after school tutoring, supervise after school activities. None of that is built into my work time. That all comes AFTER I have worked. I am not complaining. I chose this profession with my eyes wide open. I am just stating facts.
People keep speaking about data. I don't teach data. I teach students. I understand that students have fewer distractions when they are in smaller classes. I understand that students learn at different rates and in different ways and have different interests. We need a system that recognizes achievement through diverse assessments. I know that students who see success are those who have someone at home who is checking up on them regularly and holding them accountable to do their jobs. You will not find me sitting behind my desk drinking coffee. I will not allow a textbook company to plan my lessons.
I am the mother of a fourteen-year-old. I don't demand that he get all A's. I demand that he complete all of his assignments in every class. If he does that, I know that the grade will take care of itself.
In the same way, when we return the responsibility of learning to the students, return the responsibility of parenting to parents, and demand active teaching in the classroom, increased academic achievement will follow.
Compare tax rates and maybe you'll find the answer. Here's a quick source: http://www.tradereform.org/2011/07/how-we-pay-chinese-taxes-20-of-their-government-revenue/.
What needs to happen to increase achievement? Not every student is an A student. Not every student has the skill set to be successful at the university. We need to be okay with that and concentrate on helping each student reach his or her fullest potential. We need to teach students that actions have consequences and that they don't get to decide what the consequences are or for how long they last. A boss will be demanding. Teachers need to be allowed to be demanding.
A school is not a business. Governments need to stop tying up funding in best business practices that have nothing to do with education and everything to do with lining the pockets of ceos. Schools do not need more money. I firmly believe that schools need to be better stewards of the resources they have.
I give up trying to get my last paragraph in. I guess I wasn't meant for the soundbyte world because I can't post my last paragraph (which really wasn't my last paragraph - it just came out that way because CNN wouldn't post and then told me that I had posted duplicates that NEVER appeared)
Why do programs such as this and those of the Gates Foundation ignore the fundamental problem of American Education? It is obviously the problem rests in our colleges of education. This is the root of dumbing down American Education yet this has never been mentioned in this platform or any other that I have seen.
If one half of teachers come from the bottom third of classes how do we expect video taping, professional development etc. to improve the intelligence of this group of underachievers? If Bill Gates states the importance of excellent teachers why are our standards so low. After thirty plus years in education, I can honestly say that a teacher who teaches 2/3 of classes that are smarter than they are have 0 chance of success with those students. Are we really deluding ourselves by thinking students don't notice? Most are not intelligent enough to customize education. In the heyday of American Education, teachers were mostly women who had no other avenue for their talents. They were the good students for whom teaching was one of a very limited number of avenues. We are no longer fortunate enough to have this talented pool of applicants.
Colleges of Education have low admittance standards and do almost nothing to weed their students. They need the money to sustain their ineffective weak programs. All other things we are blaming for poor education; over-testing, unionism, poverty, rigidity, etc. are after the fact. If the money of the Gates Foundation were used to dismantle colleges of education and teachers were required to met the same admission standards as others and if they were required to take classes other than those tailored to their intelligence our schools would stand a better chance of being successful.
We need more intelligent teachers and we should concentrate how to meet that goal.
University programs have made progress since I went through teacher training years ago. I already had my bachelor's degree when I went back to obtain a teaching certificate, and I had been working in an inner city public school for a couple of years. We were eleven in my student teaching group. Of those eleven, I was the only one who had actually worked in a classroom in a capacity other than that of student. I couldn't imagine having studied for four/five years at the university only to discover that I wasn't cut out to be in charge of a classroom, and yet that is what happened to a few of the students in my small group. Student teaching then was a 10 week gig consisting of five weeks of observation and five weeks of teaching. That definitely wasn't enough time. Even though I had had the experience of working in a classroom, my first years of teaching were spent in on-the-job training.
Now teacher education students spend time in classrooms before completing a yearlong internship as a student teacher. Most students are on a five-year program of study. Additionally, teachers in my state are required to continue their education after receiving a teaching certificate. There is no longer a permanent teaching certificate. After I received my license, I had to take eighteen credits within three years to convert my provisional license to a professional license. Since then I have been required to take six credits every five years. I live in Michigan. I don't know the requirements of other states.
Beyond that, I know that a quality teacher has two strengths (among other talents): knowledge of the content and strong management skills. This year more than any as I faced my classes of upwards of 40 students, my management skills are what saved me and my sanity. What I have found also is that students come to me requiring an instructional level of approximately three grades below grade level. I teach sixth graders. Initial intake assessments show that most of them are functioning at a third grade or lower instructional level. I am reminded of the movie Three Men and a Baby when one of the "fathers" is singing the sports page as a lullabye to the baby. I have one month to get those students ready for the high stakes testing that determines their level of academic achievement.
The teacher is only one component in the educational process. No matter how dedicated, hard-working, knowledgeable, and energetic a teacher is, he or she will not be able to take the place of the home component or the student component. Until we return the responsibility of learning to the student and demand it, return the responsibility of parenting to the parent and demand it, and demand active teaching in the classroom, we will not see increased achievement.
I believe what the show said...teachers are by far the most important component of education. A great teacher can overcome the home and student component...it has been done! Why doesn't anyone talk about the students working above grade level not below...those are many of the students we are losing. Teachers and society can't demand responsibility they must support, encourage and lead the way. Those who work on a degree for five years and can't cut it are unfortunate but our children are more important. We must find a better way to weed poor teachers earlier.
You say, "A great teacher can overcome the home and student component...it has been done!" My experience is that somewhere in that kid's life, someone is taking over the home component, and it shouldn't be the responsibility of the teacher to do so. That's what the home is for. I am a parent as well. I send my son to school knowing that we (my husband and I) have taught him respect, responsbility, and integrity, among other qualities. I don't expect the school to supply his breakfast. I don't expect the school to supply his lunch unless I pay for it. I don't expect the school to be responsible for him after school. I don't expect the school to give him his supplies. It is my responsibility to make sure that he does his homework. If he has missing assignments, I don't blame the teacher. I talk to my kid and hold HIM accountable. He has a cell phone, but he knows to follow the school rules about its usage. If he has it out when he shouldn't and it is taken away from him, he knows that that is on HIM and there will be consequences at home. My kid knows that he had better not disrespect a teacher. He knows that if his behavior lands him in trouble at school then he has no friend in me. Actions have consequences. He doesn't get to decide what the consequences are or for how long they last. The teacher has a tough enough job with teaching. I don't expect the teacher to have to be a parent as well. In fact, I don't want the teacher to parent my child. That's MY job.
I have a responsibility to have my kid in school unless I am going to educate him myself. My kid has the responsibility to pay attention in class, to complete all of his assignments, and to put forth his best effort. I don't expect the teacher to have to read for him or write for him or create extra assignments for him because he doesn't like the ones he was given. Sometimes school is interesting. Sometimes it's fun. Always, it's just plain work. If he wants entertainment, he can pay for a movie out of his allowance.
I expect the teacher to teach actively. I don't want to walk into a classroom and find the teacher behind the desk drinking coffee and reading the newspaper. I expect the teacher to know his/her stuff in terms of classroom management and subject material. I expect the teacher to be on time and to be prepared. I understand that the teacher is grading papers on his/her own time. Still it needs to be done. Technology has facilitated communication in terms of my being able access information about my son's progress. If my son is not understanding the material, I don't expect the teacher to magically know. It's my job to advocate for him and to teach him to advocate for himself.
You say, "Why doesn't anyone talk about the students working above grade level not below...those are many of the students we are losing." I agree. We have nothing in place to support the overachievers because federal guidelines and the like require not that we teach all children but that we leave no child behind. That means teach to the least achieving child. When a teacher's effectiveness in the classroom is determined by a test that has nothing to do with the benchmarks, you can bet that the teacher is going to teach to the student that needs the most work. Society has decided that every child can learn the same content and that every child should receive A's and that every child should go to the university. Guess what? Not every child can and not every child should. We need to be okay with that. School needs to be able to get back to the business of imparting knowledge and preparing students for what comes next. We need to help each child reach his/her fullest potential so that the child becomes an adult who will be a productive and contributing member of the community.By the way, I refuse to teach to the test other than to give my students test-taking strategies. I teach to the benchmarks.
You say, "Teachers and society can't demand responsibility they must support, encourage and lead the way." I disagree. Or, should I say, if teachers and society especially can't demand responsibility, then who can? Why don't kids achieve? My opinion is that they're not required to. I don't think that's all on the teacher. Achievement requires effort. Achievement will come with active teaching, active learning, and active parenting. I agree that teachers and society should support, encourage, and lead the way. That does not mean bribe, entertain, or parent.
Finally, you say, "We must find a better way to weed poor teachers earlier." This is where it gets tricky. Define poor.I know my definition, and, yes, I have seen poor teachers through the course of my career. Your definition and mine might differ. Be that as it may, I don't think a teacher's effectiveness should be determined by test scores. That gives the test too much importance, and it takes the responsibility of learning away from the learner. Beyond that, if you swap the teachers in achieving schools with teachers in underachieving schools, you will NOT see an increase in achievement in the underachieving schools nor a decrease in achievement in the achieving ones.
Just so that you know, this is the kind of dialogue I think we need to be having in our country in order to take steps to getting back on track. It isn't about data. It isn't about the next big best thing. It's about the students.
I truly appreciate what you bring to the table for discussion. Thank you!
Great show, exposing common sense approaches
Why do are our current systems so rigid ?
Why when we discover the obvious are we as a people slow to change
Thanks for shedding light Fareed
For fixing the education system you require the following: 1.you need a good infrastcture and we in US have it thanks to the grand efforts after the World War II. 2. We need good curriculum and we have it because it delivered quality during all these years...3. We needed committed educators and the society at large delivered them....Finally why we are facing a doomsday predictions about the status of standards in this country. This,in my opinion because the country has lost its direction due to its high affluence over the last 50 years and they gave more importance to Financial services and other professions like law etc. The society has not given due imprtance to Maths and Sciences and research which are bedrock of any knowledge. Whatever tech achievement accomplshed till now are due to individual achievements in isolated communities. The society itself due to yhe affluence and increased cost of services had produced poverty levels and many sections cannot access good education. The need of the hour is universal education upto the higher levels and a thoroughreview of the curriculum giving weightag to Maths & Sciences. Over the last thirty years we have oriented more to the Wall Street to take care of our wealth than to spread a good universal education. It is upto the lawmakers to find out to fund this reorganisatio so that the basic objectives are achieved
Great take. Is the whole episode available available anywhere?
Hello. I am very interested in this article. I had a chance to read the transcripts of this post. I found the the ex-minister of education of Korea was interviewed. But I cannot find the the video of the interview. I would like to watch the interview video. Would it be possible that the interview video would be uploaded, if there is the video? Not just the interview with Bill Gates but also the interview with the ex-minister of education of Korea would be very interesting to watch. Thanks.
DVR'd most of if but missed the beginning. Will it re-air? Would like to sit down with friends to watch together and discuss.
I wouldn't attempt to tell you "what" needs to be fixed, but I hae an idea of how to find out. Let's stop taking the advice of college professors who did a study! Let's stop listening to to the Bill Gates and Don Trumps. Instead, survey 100 teachers in each state. Get an idea of what they are saying, develop a more specific tool and survy them plus another 100 in each State. Develop a tool for teachers with varying years of experience and from differnt schools (urban, rural, suburban). Is anyone interested in this approach. I'm sure teachers who have taugh poublic school for over 20 yhears can tell you what works and what doesn't work plus the different pressures from community, State , etc that has helped or hurt the actual education of the kids.
I'd never want a system like South Korea, no one has a damn life.
That student in Korea had an 8 hour school day?! Ha! Is that a joke?!! They are missing the other half of the day! As a current public school teacher in South Korea, I can attest that all of my students go to public school from 8am-3:30pm then go to private academy from 4pm-10pm everyday (including Saturdays)! Then they do homework from school and academy. That is the norm is South Korea! No student of middle or upper class would ever be done with the school day at 4pm!
These kids are exhausted!
While the investment in academics has done spectacular things to improve the quality of life in South Korea, everything must be done in moderation
As a high school teacher of 20 years and parent I can tell you that, TEACHERS and/or schools cannot EVER be the solution. No matter how much money you pump into it or how you train teachers. America got too comfortable over the past several decades based on unsustainable elements. Countries like Korea have gotten tired of being hungry, powerless and poor. They began following our lead of focus on education and hard work of years ago. It is probably not the extra hours at school that make Korean kids out score ours. It is the DRIVE and a fear of failure that a huge portion of our kids are missing. Most American kids think hard work is beneath them and we created that. If you don’t believe me spend some time in high school classrooms, where kids even are too lazy to spell check their work!! EMPOWING kids and making them face REALITY is the solution. That must involve parents in ways and levels that we don’t seem to be understanding.
As we talk and talk and talk and look to politicians and policy makers to fix this suffocating dinosaur we call our education, we’re losing MILLIONS of our future adults to apathy and lack of focus. The answer isn’t rocket-science. It is simple and inexpensive. The problem is that it is messy, takes TIME, sacrifice of our free-time and rolling up our sleeves, as parents to do this incredibly challenging work of coaching our kids to 21st century adulthood!
We all know that more education improves earning potential AND that middle class jobs that will REQUIRE post-secondary education are rising, while blue-collar jobs are shrinking. Even the high school drop outs know that...but they find school irrelevant. CLEARLY, the missing link is helping our kids internalize the motivation and abilities needed to respect and value for what education offers them. THEN they will and can learn anything we offer. We have to EMPOWER kids to learn for themselves and how to do that successfully…and invest in the WORK that takes! We do NOTHING concrete to help kids understand WHY high school must be taken seriously and HOW education impacts their future options and WHAT they want to do with their lives. It all boils down to helping them see early enough that THEY will eventually be responsible for their own lives. We wait WAY too long to make education relevant. We keep trying to make it ENTERTAINING for them and there are many more entertaining things than old, dusty teachers offering old dusty curriculum!
As a teacher and widowed mother of 3, I became so concerned with this that I stopped waiting for everyone else to fix this. I started to build a bridge between what schools/can and should offer to better prepare our kids to taking the reigns of their life as adults and building success for THEMSELVES.
I started in my classroom (and my dining room table with my own tweens and their friends) asking honest questions, gathering TONS of research and listening to it all.
The outcome of my decade long obsession and work with now thousands of teens AND parents is a workbook project, called Get totally Real! a journey of self-discovery and life planning for 21st century teenagers. http://www.getreallearning.com When parents began reaching out and asking for ways to be more involved in the transformation their children were experiencing, I created a Parent Companion that gives parents tools to begin this work.
I know I’m just one parent/teacher with one little voice, but I know that THIS works for my students and many others. They know there is a crisis, that they are victims of bad parenting combined with too much technology and most want higher expectations and much more parenting. For years now they’ve been telling me I need to find ways to share this with ‘the whole world’. I hesitated because I feared people might think I was trying to make money off of kids/parents…Teachers are just supposed to teach what they are told. Students tell me to do what is right and not worry what other think.
I watched the movie and was very surprised that all I saw is boys. It seems that South Korea only cares about the success of boys. What about the academic success of girls ? Girls have the same (or even more) potential for success.
I just want to put some facts out there; I leave it to the public to make the judgement:
In the 1980s, before the passage of Prop. 13 in California, the state's public schools ranked number 1 in the nation.
California at that point spent about 3 times as much of their budget on public education as prisons.
One of the things Proposition 13 is delinking property values to property taxes. For example, if you bought a house in 1970 for $45,000 and your property tax was 1 percent of your house value, if you did not sell the property between 1970 and today, you would still pay the same property tax that you did in 1970.
Today, California's public education receives less money than prisons. Our state's public education system is near the bottom of the ranking among US states.
(An aside: businesses that purchased land in California before the passage of Prop. 13 go to great lengths today when "selling" property to make sure that the 'owner' of the property does not change, so as to avoid having the land revalued for taxes)..........
If we're talking facts – then let's use real facts. You can have your own opinions (Dan Davis) but not your own facts.
The problem with Bill Gates and other "Free Market" for education proponents is this:
Children are not widgets – education is not business – learning cannot be standardized – if we spent more time teaching and less testing we might improve. One thing they should know from business – you can't improve quality simply by testing. You have to include the people who are responsible for the process – like Toyota and Scania have shown in production.
No Child Left Behind is the largest failed social experiment in our history. Education experts – as opposed to billionaires (many of whom did leave elite schools early) agree. Standardized testing and business model accountability simply leads to teaching to the test, fudging numbers, casting out failing students to pump up results and other draconian measures.
Research shows Mr. Gates and his ilk (Mayor Bloomberg, Democrats for School Reform etc etc.) are wrong.
Only 10% (at most) of student outcomes is attributable to in-class factors. Of those experience of teachers and class size are the only two that really matter.
Fully 60-% of student outcomes are due to factors outside school: Poverty, Hunger, Homelessness, Health, Racial isolation.
You want to fix education? If we really want o put students first and improve our education – start with those intractable problems.Fareed is correct – inequality is the root. Not just income inequality (but that's a good place to start) – but social inequality.
PLEASE – if you happen to believe teachers are to blame for the condition of our education system – try doing their job for just one week. I guarantee you'll learn something valuable.
Ever since my wife told me about this episode, I've been searching for ways to view it (in vain). But I think I just saw that it will be re-aired this Saturdary (1/7) at 8 PM EST/ 5PM PST. I hope that's true, and I'm very much looking forward to seeing it in its entirely, rather than the small clips I've found here and there.
Ah:
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/06/gps-special-re-airs-fixing-education/
I hope you address the fact that in South Korea it appears from your report, that they do not have coed schools.
Let's compare apples to apples and organges to oranges.
They do.
I just finished watching portions of Fixing Education and I have a few observations/comments. I began teaching physics and chemistry in 1976 and things have changed quite a bit since then. The comment was made near the end of the program that we have lost many good teachers because talented, educated women have gone into other fields.( I'll hold off on several comments about that to keep from losing my real point.) What wasn't mentioned was at about that same time someone decided that every child in America needed to graduate from high school. That is a worthwhile goal. Democracy can't exist without well educated voters. But how we tried to do that was horribly wrong. We started by keeping all of the difficult, demanding, students: the hyperactive, the poor, the uninterested, the slow to learn, the trouble makers, etc. Then we changed absolutely nothing else. We have been trying to recover and do better ever since. We didn't suddenly all become bad teachers. We were overwhelmed. We were not trained to do this new job. No one sent me back to school to teach me how to modify tests, or cope with an austic kid in meltdown, or earn the attention of a kid who was shot at on the way to school, or refocus the kid whose mom is absent due to drugs. One day these kids in the "old school " would just drop out and we could teach the rest. Now there is no dropping out. I repeat that a good education is vital for these kids, they should be in school. But they are not in a position where they value that education. My point is that we still have good teachers, teaching skills are not the problem. Cultural values are the problem. How do you convince a 3rd generation welfare kid that getting a good education and a good job is important? How do you convince a poor kid that has never traveled outside of his home city that knowing where Iran is is important? Finland is doing a great job, do they have 45 % of their students on free and reduced lunch? Is South Korea having a huge surge of illegal immigrants to educate ? We have always hoped that education is the cure for society's ills. I think we are finding out that we must cure those ills first, or education withers.
One comment on Khan schools. In 1976 I was introduced to the concept of "modules". Units of material that students could learn at their own pace. I still have some of my original "modules". They were not successful. Slow students would cheat and ask quicker students for answers. Some would fly through material and be bored, some would never finish material that was important. So I abandoned the idea as did many others. It was a good idea, and with computers it is a workable idea. But only if we abandon the idea that an 8 year old should be in 3rd grade. And only if we step away from the concept that a child must be in 3rd grade math and 3rd grade science and 3rd grade english at the same time. Our entire system must be reinvented. But how do you get an entire school, an entire district, an entire community to embrace such a huge change ?
Back to losing talented women teachers – I think my male and very talented co-teachers would be more than a little offended.
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-727771
*K-12 MAPS TO A STEM EDUCATION By SJRose
http://www.plantagriculture.org to Read the Bill Proposal and the story of a
little girl whose heart to help others inspired this bill proposal
This is a "Call to Action". We need your help to get the "K-12 MAPS to a
STEM Education Act of 2012" bill proposal to congress and passed.
This bill has the potential to not only help to close the educational
gaps, help our students become leaders nationally and internationally, but
also help to save the lives of children who suffer from childhood hunger
and childhood obesity.
We need this bill passed as soon as possible and it won't happen without
your help.
The current educational system within the United States is not able to
provide all students an equal educational opportunity for success.
Unfortunately, statistics show that not only are there educational gaps
between the educational scores of White, Black and Hispanic students that
have continued for years, despite the "No Child Left Behind Act of 2001",
but also, students in the United States are failing to obtain high scores
in Reading, Mathematics, and Science, when compared to their international
peers; scores for students in the United States were "lower than" the top
30% in Reading, were "lower than" the top 70% in Mathematics, and were
"lower than" the top 45% in Science; according to the National Center for
Education Statistics, "Current Figures", Section 2, Learner Outcomes, for
15 year old students in the United States, International Reading Literacy
Figure 15-1, and International Mathematics and Science Literacy Figure
16-1.
Our students are struggling and they are being educated in the United
States of America. They need our help.
Please contact your congressperson today and ask them to present and
sponsor this bill. https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
Also, Finnish is a very easy language to learn because it is much more phonetic than English which is highly irregular and illogical: http://finnish-and-pisa.blogspot.com/
Moreover, Finnish-speaking Finnish students do better than their Swedish-speaking Finnish counterpart, so language does matter because they get the same education, except that it is conducted in a different language.
If English were to be reformed and some of the elements given here were added, the US education system would be better. The Canadian system would be better. It is partly related to the language.
Here is the website: http://finnish-and-pisa.blogspot.com/
Gotta say I was very shocked while watching the program tonight or last night! I was shocked because I just finished working on a bill proposal to address these very issues! Second, I was shocked to see how much money was going into trying to help our kids learn, when if we could just get this bill passed, it would not cost much at all to implement it and it has the potential to help children of all races and ethnicities to make the valuable synapse connections to all school subjects, including Mathematics, the Arts (Language Arts+), and Science, but to the Technology and Engineering too.
Please help me out here and read it and use it to help us get this bill proposal to congress. I'm not a politician! My expertise is in education. I can put the information together but we need your help. Please write a letter to your congressperson and ask them to present and sponsor this bill. We need to advocate for our kids, they need us. We gotta give them a way to love education again, and not dread the standardized test.
K-12 MAPS TO A STEM EDUCATION, 2012 EDITION
1. Book Description
2. A Call to Action
3. Bill Preview
4. Copyright and Permission to Copy
5. Contact Information
6. K-12 MAPS to a STEM Education Act of 2012 bill proposal
7. The Story of a Little Girl Who's Heart to Help Others Inspired this bill proposal
1. BOOK DESCRIPTION:
K-12 MAPS TO A STEM EDUCATION is the very first of its kind! It's a whole new approach to educating K-12 students. The primary focus is providing all students a strong and relatable plant agriculture foundation upon which all educators can help build, simultaneously, K-12 MAPS (Mathematics, Arts, Plants, and Science) synaptic connections to higher level STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics) fields of study.
The current educational system within the United States is not able to provide all students an equal educational opportunity for success. Unfortunately, statistics show that not only are there educational gaps between the educational scores of White, Black and Hispanic students that have continued for years, despite the "No Child Left Behind Act of 2001", but also, students in the United States are failing to obtain high scores in Reading, Mathematics, and Science, when compared to their international peers; scores for students in the United States were "lower than" the top 30% in Reading, were "lower than" the top 70% in Mathematics, and were "lower than" the top 45% in Science; according to the National Center for Education Statistics, "Current Figures", Section 2, Learner Outcomes, for 15 year old students in the United States, International Reading Literacy Figure 15-1, and International Mathematics and Science Literacy Figure 16-1.
Our students are struggling and they are being educated in the United States of America. They need our help.
2. A CALL TO ACTION:
This is a "Call to Action". We need your help to get the "K-12 MAPS to a STEM Education Act of 2012" bill proposal to congress and passed. This bill has the potential to not only help to close the educational gaps, help our students become leaders internationally, but also help to save the lives of children who suffer from childhood hunger and childhood obesity. We need this bill passed as soon as possible and it won't happen without your help.
Please contact your congressperson today and ask them to present and sponsor this bill. https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
Please feel free to share this book and use the information in this book and the website http://www.plantagriculture.org to use as needed to help prepare your letters and emails to your congressperson and also to help gather support for this bill.
Continue: K-12 MAPS TO A STEM EDUCATION
3. BILL PREVIEW:
An Act
To make "Plant Agriculture Education" (the teaching of skills needed to grow plant life forms to sustain life) the foundation of K-12 education with accountability, flexibility and choice, so that no child is left behind and all races and ethnicities receive an equal educational opportunity to learn and develop the skills of growing food and to use the food growing skills, food growing educational experiences, and food growing practice experiences to provide direct synaptic linking K-12 MAPS (Mathematics, Arts, Plants, and Science) to a STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics) Education.
Preamble
WHEREAS, a Plant Agriculture Education has the potential to help give all students of all races and all ethnicities, an equal educational opportunity to make synapse connections to Mathematics, Arts, and Science, creating K-12 MAPS to a STEM Education; a Plant Agriculture Education has the potential to help decrease childhood obesity and increase students ability, at an early age, to develop a taste for, to grow and select healthier food choices; a Plant Agriculture Education has the potential to help decrease childhood hunger and increase student's ability to grow and select healthy food choices; a Plant Agriculture Education has the potential to help students in the United States better relate to their education, to become leaders nationally and internationally; and therefore, should become law as soon as possible.
4. COPYRIGHT AND PERMISSION TO COPY
Note to Reader: Permission granted to use the information and photos in this book as needed to help create, prepare, and present the "K-12 MAPS to a STEM Education Act of 2012" bill. Permission granted to use the information and photos in this book as needed to help support the passing of this bill. Permission granted to educators and parents to use the information and photos in this book as needed to teach a, K-12 MAPS to a STEM Education. All parties are given permission to copy, distribute and use this book in any way that is positive and helpful to advancing K-12 educational goals. The use of the information or photos in this book or the website to profit financially, is not granted. These same permissions are given to any and all content on the Plant Agriculture Website: http://www.plantagriculture.org
S. J. Rose is dedicated to providing helpful educational information and due to differing conditions, tools, and individual skills, S. J. Rose assume no responsibility for any damages, injuries suffered, or losses incurred as a result of following the information published in this book or on the http://www.plantagriculture.org website. Before beginning the growing process of any agricultural plants, educate the students on the parts of the plants that are safe to eat. Just as children need to be taught, not to eat hand soap or even garden soil, educators need to teach children not to eat parts of the plant that are not considered safe food parts. Choose agricultural plants that are age appropriate for your students and remember that some foods could cause chocking, especially for young students or students with special needs. Educators may need to cut foods into smaller pieces, make sure to keep plants out of the student's reach if there is a chocking concern, or choose a variety that is more age appropriate and growing skill level appropriate for your students. Always use good agricultural practices and always teach safety and use safety when using tools. Only use tools that are age appropriate.
5. CONTACT INFORMATION: plantagriculture.org
Continue: K-12 MAPS TO A STEM EDUCATION
6. K-12 MAPS TO A STEM EDUCATION ACT OF 2012 BILL PROPOSAL
An Act
To make "Plant Agriculture Education" (the teaching of skills needed to grow plant life forms to sustain life) the foundation of K-12 education with accountability, flexibility and choice, so that no child is left behind and all races and ethnicities receive an equal educational opportunity to learn and develop the skills of growing food and to use the food growing skills, food growing educational experiences, and food growing practice experiences to provide direct synaptic linking K-12 MAPS (Mathematics, Arts, Plants, and Science) to a STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics) Education.
WHEREAS, this act should take effect, As Soon As Possible, to start the process of "saving lives" by decreasing childhood hunger and childhood obesity, of which both are increased by inadequate educational opportunities to receive the knowledge, of obtaining, selecting, and even growing, healthy food choices; and to start the process of providing all races and ethnicities of students, equal educational opportunities; and, providing all of the nation's students, the opportunity to receive a K-12 MAPS educational connection to a STEM education.
WHEREAS, it is a scientific known fact that synapse (cell connections within the human brain) are required for educational progress; it is a scientific known fact that education is taught successfully by building and strengthening theses synapse connections through experiences that build upon one another; it is a scientific known fact that synapse connections which are not used can break down making it difficult for students to make future synapse connections; it is a scientific known fact that educators have a greater success of helping students make these synapse connections, when they have a strong foundation of synapse connections to build upon and make connections to.
WHEREAS, a Plant Agriculture Education provides a very strong and relatable foundation for all students no matter what their race or ethnicity is. A Plant Agriculture Education, "skill set", provides synapse connections for educators to use to help students make and strengthen synapse connections to Mathematics, Arts, and Science, thus creating K-12 level MAPS to a higher level STEM education.
WHEREAS, a Plant Agriculture Education can be implemented with limited financial means by simply giving K-12 students the opportunity to observe the growing process of a variety of agricultural plants throughout their K-12 educational years. Whether students observe plants growing in a bag of planting soil with drainage holes, a container garden, a raised bed, a cold frame or even a green house, it doesn't matter; they will still gain a strong Plant Agriculture Education skill set, upon which other skill sets in Mathematics, Arts, Science, and even Technology, and Engineering can be built simultaneously.
The education level of our teachers has been a problem in USA . The curriculum approved by the government is not as strong and diversified as in other countries.
The amount of hours the students spend in the school it is not directly related to how much they learn. I went to school half day, 5 days a week, and I know as much or more than my Americans friends. A student who goes to a good school in Brazil from 7:00 a.m. to 12:00 (noon) receives as much education as an American student who goes to a good school in USA from 8:00 a.m. to 3:15 p.m. Why? I constantly ask my daughter what she does in school for 7 hours and 15 minutes...
To change education in America, we have to first change the system-STOP Standardized Testing!!!! The use of standardized testing in American Public Education has lead to a system of mediocrity. Teachers are forced to get all kids to the same level of understanding–in the end, this leads to poor interest by students, teachers who are bound to curriculums that are focused solely on score, and parents who are frustrated because a test score gives their child little hope of future success.
Diane Ravitch has studied education for over 20 years and is concerned about the emergence of financiers like Bill Gates. Smart guy, but should he be recommending how to run schools when he has not spent one day responsible for the education of a group of children? Heaven help us, please. Bill, put yourself on the line here and spend a week in the shoes of a teacher. The personal qualities of a teacher are more important than anything else: how smart they are, how much they know, how hard they work, none of these matter as much as whether students like their teacher. Tenure was designed to protect teachers from students who would undermine the program for personal gain. Can the system be repaired? We might never find out!
Once again, there's been a discussion on education and the TEACHERS have been left out. Everyone wants to criticize teachers, and yet our government refuses to let us teach. People who have never even been teachers make up so many ridiculous laws about what we, the teachers, need to do, and as always, expect us to work 24/7 to do it all. The problem with our educational system stems from our culture and from insane government regulations. Teachers have 30 kids in a classroom, many of whom are disrespectful, don't know English, and have learning disabilities. And you want us to do what? Not only teach but meet each student's individual learning needs, catch then up even if they're ten years behind in reading, and keep mountain loads of records for each student to prove that they're learning? Seriously? If you want a fair discussion of what's going on in education, try talking to the teachers who try their best against overwhelming odds. Talk to me!