November 5th, 2011
08:50 AM ET

This week on GPS: Pervez Musharraf on Pakistani nuclear weapons, plus Bill Gates and Arne Duncan on education

On Fareed Zakaria GPS this Sunday, new and deeply worrying concerns about the safety of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons. An explosive article in the Atlantic makes the case that Pakistan is moving about its nuclear materials in unsecured vans to prevent Washington from swooping on them, a-la the Osama bin Laden raid. But in doing so, those nukes are now more vulnerable to terrorists. Fareed Zakaria gets the story from the Atlantic’s Jeffrey Goldberg.

What is Pakistan’s response? As the former President and Army Chief for nearly a decade, Pervez Musharraf is uniquely placed to shed light on these allegations.

All that, plus interviews with billionaire Bill Gates and Education Secretary Arne Duncan on how to fix America’s education system.

Jeffrey Goldberg on Pakistani nuclear weapons

Jeffrey Goldberg: The SPD, this Pakistani army branch, get the call from General Kayani, who’s the most powerful figure in the country, the chief of army staff, and basically says that do we know for sure that these weapons are secure, not from jihadists, which is what the world worries about, but from America?

Fareed Zakaria: And so what does General Kidwai, the head of this nuclear unit, what does he do in regards to Kayani’s concerns?

Jeffrey Goldberg: Well, this is - this is very interesting. What happens is the nuclear program is already dispersed around the country. There are 12 or 15 different sites, here you could plausibly believe that their nuclear weapons are stored or components of nuclear weapons are stored. one of the doctrines, one of the Pakistani doctrines to keep these weapons safe and away from prying eyes, not only America’s but India’s, is to move them around, move them around the country. Sometimes they’re moved by helicopter, but often they’re moved by road. And what happened after Abbottabad was the pace of this movement increased. In other words, they accelerated the velocity of this shell game, if you will. And here’s the troubling, the really troubling aspect of this. There are two ways you can do this, obviously. You can have huge armored convoys that are - that are driven at night, well protected, moving weapons and components. But, of course, that draws attention, not only the attention of jihadists or whoever might be interested, but spy satellites and et cetera. So what happens is very often these warheads and fissile material are moved around in the equivalent of delivery vans, over…

Fareed Zakaria: UPS trucks.

Jeffrey Goldberg: You wish. I mean, UPS would probably do a fairly good job of it. It’s an open question about how good a job is being done. Now, obviously, if the intelligence is good, if they have good operational security on the movement of these trucks, let’s put aside the issue of how dangerous Pakistani roads are on a daily basis, but put that aside. If they have good operational security, then no one knows where these trucks are going at any given moment. But because we know that the Pakistani military has been infiltrated to some degree by people who are sympathetic to organizations like the Taliban, that’s a whole other level of worry.

Pervez Musharraf on the nuclear issue

Fareed Zakaria: When nuclear weapons were being moved around the country, surely, as president, you would have been told in general, this is the process, not - not every time—

Pervez Musharraf: No, no, no. Never. Never told. They were - there are locations to be held and there are forces to hold them. Now, the - this is not exactly every time of - something moves, OK, we are moving this from Point A to Point B. I don't know that such regular information, running commentary is not given at all.

Fareed Zakaria: But you really have no worries about the security of the - of the - of the arsenal, because the fact of them moving them around, if they were, would that suggest to you that there is some kind of nervousness about attacks, either from - by militants or, potentially, planned from… the United States?

Pervez Musharraf: No. I don't– I don't think it is possible, from my purely military perspective, for anyone, including the United States, to attack them that easily. They are very well dispersed and they are in very strong positions. And, also guarded. So, therefore, I don't think the - it's as simple as Osama bin Laden action or a one point action which is a soft target. This is a very hard target. These are very hard targets and in places which are not accessible.

Fareed Zakaria: So with all the rise of militant attacks and terrorist attacks in Pakistan that have - that the ISI has suffered, that the Pakistani Army has suffered, you don't worry about the security of Pakistan's nuclear weapons?

Pervez Musharraf: I don't. I don't, unless Pakistan is - the governance of Pakistan is taken over by - by some religious extremist political organization.

Fareed Zakaria: Do you think that could happen?

Pervez Musharraf: I don't think so. I don't - at the moment, religious parties don't even have 4 - they just have about 3 or 4 percent of the total seats. And I don't see that happening in the near future.

Post by:
Topics: GPS Episodes • Nuclear • Pakistan

soundoff (27 Responses)
  1. mohammad allam

    Why not simply ask Pakistan to hand over nuclear weapon.Why there is so much hue and cry?

    November 5, 2011 at 9:32 am | Reply
    • AmitabhB

      Pakistan is willing to hand over if all other nations do so also. That is what Pakistan has been proposing for decades. Pakistan's nuclear capability was developed for purely defensive purposes. It has India's conventional rogue forces on the eastern borders ten times larger, Afghanistan on the north, Iran on the west to deal with. The only way Pakistan can effectively defend itself in a financially viable way is via nuclear capability.

      Also, brm1007 (a regular contributor to these forums and one of few who intellectually makes sense to me) has put forward his views which I am quoting below and which all the more necessitates that Pakistan not only retains but enhances its nuclear capabilities due to its emerging leadership role. And I quote brm1007::::

      "PAKISTAN.....The New Gateway to Central Asia and Europe.

      With a population of over 180 million most of whom are well educated, english speaking, entrepreneurial, a cultural and social fit with Central Asians...Pakistan will now become the new face and gateway to Central Asia and Europe. Pakistan will thus span this region and provide the impetus for growth, prosperity and unity among these countries. These are new and exciting times for Pakistanis who should now look forward to their new leadership role aligned with Central Asia and Europe rather than the Subcontinent. We wish them much success as they have sacrificed the most during the past 30 + years creating a new world order."

      In my opinion brm1007 has articulated it well and i agree with it completely.

      November 5, 2011 at 10:09 am | Reply
      • AcclaimedMan

        LOL....at.....AmitabhB and The Broom (brm1007).

        Both these Porkies are still hallucinating about Pakistan and it's ability. Bottom line is Pakistan is almost a failed state and in the process of self-disintegration due the demons they help created for themselves. We are at a distance watching them getting demated !!!!

        November 7, 2011 at 1:28 am |
      • India4Ever

        LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        I think I have to go to the hospital, I think I just ruptured my spleen while I was laughing so hard!!!

        You are a Pakistani, – you are Brown and should be proud!!! Nothing wrong with the Euros and Central Asians, though

        November 12, 2011 at 12:16 pm |
      • Saba

        PAKISTAN = TERROR HUB PAKISTAN = TERROR HUB PAKISTAN = TERROR HUB

        MUHAMMAD ALI JINNAH ( PAKISTAN'S FOUNDER) was a Traitor, He contributed Nothing to the Indian freedom Movement as Mahatma Gandhi fought a non-violent battle against colonization and won India Independence

        Jihhan came like a Hynea and took the meal hard won by the Lion ...So we can expect what we see in Pakistan today

        Pakistan will disintegrate Like USSR Insha Allah ( God willing )

        November 13, 2011 at 9:10 am |
    • Saba

      WHY IS AMERICA GIVING EVEN A DIME TO PAKISTAN ( AN ENEMY, NEVER AN ALLY )

      Can any country shelter Bin Laden for 5 years near IT'S military academy, ONLY PAKISTAN

      Can any country proliferate Nuclear weapon technology to Iran , North Korea and Libya, ONLY PAKISTAN

      Can any country support HAQQANI Network so that it kills US Troops as they come home in BODYBAGS, Only
      Pakistan

      Can any country have its overseas citizens plan the TIME SQUARE bomb plot, ONLY PAKISTAN

      Can any country orchestrate the MUMBAI attacks on India , ONLY PAKISTAN

      Can any country nurture the TALIBAN TO KILL it's own people ( ALI MENTIONED Pakistani civialn deaths ) , ONLY Pakistan

      Can any country take 20 billion dollar aid and use it against India as opposed to feed its people, ONLY Pakistan

      Can any country attack the Taliban negotiator,destabilize Afganistan by training Afghan Taliban as a strategic weapon, ONLY Pakistan

      Can any country's citizen ( Khalid sheikh Mohammed) Pitch ideas to Bin Laden on flying planed into building on Sept 11, Only Pakistan

      Can any country's citizen ( David headley alais Dawood Gilani ) act as scout for the Mumbai Attacks , Only Pakistan

      Fareed Zakaria says that Pakistan is a Frankenstein's monster breeding Islamic Terrorism

      November 13, 2011 at 8:59 am | Reply
  2. AmitabhB

    This Goldberg guy is a clown clearly on some cheap Indian dope smoking out of an Israeli pipe. Who is he kidding? LOL.
    I can't believe Zakaria has stoop to this low level to fill up his space and time.

    November 5, 2011 at 10:47 am | Reply
    • Saba

      Are you a sympathizer of Bin Laden or Ajmal Kasab or Paki ISI officers who immigrated to the US?

      Even are Pathetic to ignore the international MENACE CALLED PAKISTAN

      "persecution and torture at the hands of the British and Hindus" YOU TYPED, WHAT A BLATANT LIE

      LET ME TELL U THE FACTS NOW

      Islam came into INDIA by aggression , It brought lot of violence, your neanderthal armies plundered our temples, broke the somnath temple, broke temples in delhi to build Qutub minar how shameful

      Your extremist and cruel Aurangazeb built Mosques on Hindu holy cites to Marginalize Hindu population in majority

      Mughals and other Islamic rulers ( except Tipu sultan who was good) forced conversion on Hindus and imposed Jazia tax on hindus

      Your rulers looted India and wasted money on Moseleums like Taj when they could have invested in Science and Technology .Europe was in Renaissance and it developed and reached Industrial age and they invented Guns and your Mughal rulers slept and you stemmed creativity their parochial rule

      the marathas made Mughals cry then and run for life and dismembered their empire

      India was tolerant and accepted the Invasion ,we thought you will understand and learn to be tolerant, but you were not, you went separate into Pakistan and now you top the list of failed states

      The contribution of Islamic civilization to science and technology is very low in comparison, this is due to over emphasis on theology against other religions and lack of tolerance and acceptance and this phenomenon stands true to this day in Pakistan

      November 13, 2011 at 9:01 am | Reply
  3. krm1007

    Musharraf has gotten the blessing of US Govt to reenter Pakistan political scene. This is CNN implementing that policy and giving Musharraf some air time to prepare his arrival in Pakistan. As soon as Musharraf wins the elections in Pakistan, it will signal the end of Afghanistan war and American victory....as Musharraf will orchestrate that. All of this will happen before the next US Presidential elections.

    November 5, 2011 at 2:43 pm | Reply
    • Saba

      PAKISTAN IS AN ISLAMIST THEOCRACY THAT LIVES AND BREEDS RELIGIOUS , SECRETARIAN HATE

      and it has made INDIA an enemy, then it made Afghanistan an enemy and then it has made the WEST it's enemy and UNITED STATES is Pakistan's enemy now and Pakistan wants AID from the United States ????? SO PAKISTAN SUCKS says noted author Salman Rushidie

      November 13, 2011 at 9:11 am | Reply
  4. j. von hettlingen

    I would like to see Musharraf and Ahmadinejad in a debate. Both are self-assertive and self-opionated, that they can convince the audience that charcoal is white.

    November 5, 2011 at 5:34 pm | Reply
    • j. von hettlingen

      It's absolutely crazy, how the Pakistani military safeguard their nuclear weapons. All these transports cost fuels and incite acitivities that put not only the safety of the civilians, but the whole region at risk.

      November 7, 2011 at 5:44 am | Reply
    • j. von hettlingen

      please read: self-opinionated.

      November 7, 2011 at 10:48 am | Reply
  5. hd

    Fareed Why are you not interviewing Imran khan, Next PM of Pakistan????????

    November 5, 2011 at 10:19 pm | Reply
  6. Bashir Chaudhry

    Osama Bin Laden got killed by US, Pakistan intel failed and got blamed for being incapable. The WTC and Pentagon and White House were attacked. Three muslim countries are invaded....... ten years of killing and economic suffering . Whose intelligence has failed in the 1st place? Say it loud and clear.

    November 6, 2011 at 2:34 pm | Reply
    • Saba

      PAKISTAN LOST ALL WARS WITH INDIA, now a failed state that begs and lives on AID , then deceives its patron and wants to fight the US is this a joke , how shameful !!!

      November 13, 2011 at 9:04 am | Reply
      • قمرعباس

        use your dirty thoughts and opinions to fight against AIDs in india don't be worried about PAKISTAN's NUKs
        اپنی گندی سوچ اور زبان کو انڈیا سے ایڈز ختم کرنے کے لیئے استعمال کرو

        January 24, 2012 at 5:27 pm |
  7. g3utrb

    please dont let this clown (musharraf) on tv. Did he say the "United Sh!ts" !!!!???

    November 6, 2011 at 3:20 pm | Reply
  8. imran

    i agree with mush us should accept pakistan as nuclear power and treat as it treat india and israeal and stop spreading clowns roumers it will not serve the american interest in the region and realtion between us and pakistan.pakistan was is will remain nuclear power better live with it. cheers

    November 6, 2011 at 8:40 pm | Reply
    • AcclaimedMan

      CLOWNS...Pakis are CLOWNS !!!

      November 7, 2011 at 1:29 am | Reply
    • Saba

      Pakistanis don't like terror inflicted on them as Fire burns without discrimination..yet there are strong rootages of support for Terror in Pakistan as Pakistani society quietly accepts and welcomes Terror in the name of JIHAD on Afghanistan , on India in name of Kashmir...it blinds the Pakistanis society to see that its Army and ISI have used terror as an instrument of STATE POLICY for the last 65 years

      we pretty well know u are a BIASED Pakistani and you will never live in peace with the world, not just India
      Khalid Sheikh Mohammad ( A Pakistani ) pitched ideas to attack US by flying planes into buildings

      SO A PAKISTANI MASTERMIND WAS BEHIND THE IDEA OD SEPT 11, 2001

      YET Pakistanis blame US, INDIA AND ISRAEL, Therefore a Top CIA officer says that Pakistanis are PATHOLOGICAL LIARS

      KRM1007 IS A PAKI JIHADI whose ideology is a threat to the free world, but he uses the internet and all technological facilities that have been developed in the West and whose fundamentals lie in discoveries of Mathematics from the Orient, notably INDIA.

      The contribution of Islamic civilization to science and technology is very low in comparison, this is due to over emphasis on theology against other religions and lack of tolerance and acceptance and this phenomenon stands true to this day in Pakistan

      MORE AND MORE ALI's and his "type" ARE RAISED IN PAKISTAN. WHAT A SHAME

      PAKISTAN IS THE EPICENTER OF TERRORISM THAT STEMS FROM RELIGIOUS HATRED

      Pakistani Father in Terror training camp asks him new joinee/ conscript son

      Pakistani Father : What do want to become IN THE FUTURE as you do JIHAD against India, Afganistan, US ???

      Pakistani Son : I wanna blow up like daddy

      MOST TERRORISTS HAVE Pakistani ORIGIN who plot tyerror across in world cities and most terror acts DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY INVOLVE SOMEONE FROM PAKISTAN

      KRM1007 : Indians are not hiding in American skirts, You Jihadi Pakistanis are...

      RETURN THE 700 BILLION DOLLAR AID ( WAR COST + AID COST + COST OF SEPT 11 ON AMERICA ) spent on or due to Pakistan wit h 10 % interest compounded Annually and then talk, we will listen then

      November 13, 2011 at 9:12 am | Reply
  9. alidonfong

    akistan is willing to hand over if all other nations do so also. That is what Pakistan has been proposing for decades. Pakistan's nuclear capability was developed for purely defensive purposes. It has India's conventional rogue forces on the eastern borders ten times larger, Afghanistan on the north, Iran on the west to deal with. The only way Pakistan can effectively defend itself in a financially viable way is via nuclear capability.

    Also, brm1007 (a regular contributor to these forums and one of few who intellectually makes sense to me) has put forward his views which I am quoting below and which all the more necessitates that Pakistan not only retains but enhances its nuclear capabilities due to its emerging leadership role. And I quote brm1007::::

    "PAKISTAN.....The New Gateway to Central Asia and Europe.

    With a population of over 180 million most of whom are well educated, english speaking, entrepreneurial, a cultural and social fit with Central Asians...Pakistan will now become the new face and gateway to Central Asia and Europe. Pakistan will thus span this region and provide the impetus for growth, prosperity and unity among these countries. These are new and exciting times for Pakistanis who should now look forward to their new leadership role aligned with Central Asia and Europe rather than the Subcontinent. We wish them much success as they have sacrificed the most during the past 30 + years creating a new world order."

    November 7, 2011 at 6:28 am | Reply
    • Saba

      PAKISTANIS PRETEND AS INDIANS IN THE WEST to avoid being frowned at as Pakistanis in home and abroad have been caught in terror plots ( TIME SQUARE TERROR PLOT, MUMBAI TERRORIST ATTACKS had involvement of American living or Canada living Pakistanis ) BE ASHAMED NOW

      Khalid Sheikh Mohammad ( A Pakistani ) pitched ideas to BIN LADEN TO attack US by flying planes into buildings, BIN LADEN APPROVED THE IDEA

      SO A PAKISTANI MASTERMIND WAS BEHIND THE IDEA OF SEPT 11, 2001

      Pakistan has TAKEN 20 BILLION DOLLARS and yet it sheltered Bin laden for 5 years and allowed Haqqanis so that American soldiers get killed and get sent in body bags – THUS PAKISTAN HAS EARNED THE HATE from civilized world

      Pakistani civilian deaths are due to the Taliban that Pakistan created and the strategy backfired, PAKISTANI ARMY AND ISI ARE RESPONSIBLE

      STOP BLAMING INDIA AND ISRAEL AND EVEN AMERICA

      YOU WANTED AMERICAN MONEY, YOU BROUGHT INTO THE IDEA OF CREATING TALIBAN IN THE 1980'S

      YOUR SELFISH INTEREST IN HARMING INDIA BY BEING A US MERCENARY SEVERELY BACKFIRED AND STILL, WORSE STILL YOUR NATION SUPPORTS AND HARBORS TERRORIST GROUPS

      Pakistan is solely responsible FOR NOT BEING LOVED.

      PAKISTAN IS AN ENEMY OF THE UNITED STATES SAY ANALYSTS

      November 13, 2011 at 9:01 am | Reply
  10. MacBoob Ali

    Pakistan celebrates Moslem holiday – Eid, by executing four doctors (Dr Ashok, Dr Naresh, Dr Ajeet and Dr Satia Paul) in Karachi for the crime of being Christian/Hindu. Pakistan, where everyday is a 7th century day in the cesspool.

    November 8, 2011 at 10:53 am | Reply
  11. Saba

    Somalia + nuclear weapons = Pakistan

    it proliferated nuclear technology to Libya , Iran and North Korea

    It sheltered BIN LADEN for 5 years

    It took 18 billion dollars in aid and used it against India than fight terror

    What an "ally" ...TERRIBLE ROGUE

    November 13, 2011 at 8:58 am | Reply

Post a comment


 

CNN welcomes a lively and courteous discussion as long as you follow the Rules of Conduct set forth in our Terms of Service. Comments are not pre-screened before they post. You agree that anything you post may be used, along with your name and profile picture, in accordance with our Privacy Policy and the license you have granted pursuant to our Terms of Service.