By Fareed Zakaria, CNN
I was in Germany this week and the mood there is pretty grim: Europe is facing its most severe challenge since 1945. If the Greek crisis morphs into an Italian crisis - Italy being too large to bail out - the entire structure of post-World War II Europe could unravel.
Finally, European leaders seem to recognize that their strategy of kicking the can down the road has not worked. The result will not be a dramatic solution - that is not how Europe works - but, more likely, a series of steps that together will be more comprehensive than anything done before. But they will not address Europe's core problem: a lack of growth.
The Europeans - by which I mean the Germans - are trying to find some solution to this crisis that will not let countries like Greece and Italy off the hook. Germans feel these countries need to feel the pressure - only then will they reform their budgets and their habits. So the solutions will be complex - trying to stop a crisis while not bailing out these countries entirely.
The real problem - however - is not so much that Greece has been unwilling to make sacrifices. It has made many. But Greece's budget numbers look bleak because its growth forecast looks bleak. It needs to address a much larger question of competitiveness. What can the Greek economy do to attract capital and investment? And at what wage levels? These are questions most European countries will need to answer to fully solve their problems.
Italy's economy has not grown for an entire decade. No debt restructuring will work if it stays stagnant for another decade. Even Germany is not immune, with an average growth rate of only 1.5%. German officials know that with a declining population, in five to seven years the country is likely to grow at an annual rate of just 1%. That's not much of an engine for Europe.
Europe needs a crisis agenda to get out of its bind, but beyond that it needs a growth agenda, which involves radical reform. The fact is that Western economies - with high wages, generous middle-class subsidies and complex regulations and taxes - have become sclerotic. Now they face pressures from three fronts: demography (an aging population), technology (which has allowed companies to do much more with fewer people) and globalization (which has allowed manufacturing and services to locate across the world).
If Europe - and, for that matter, the United States - cannot adjust to this new landscape, it might escape this storm only to enter another.
For more on this, read my column in The Washington Post. For more of my thoughts throughout the week, I invite you to follow me on Facebook and Twitter and to bookmark the Global Public Square. Also, for more of my takes, click here.
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If Germany's population is declining, that means more wealth per person. Does its economy have to grow?
If economy would growth in such a way, it would be long ago EU population equal to 1. Because they would know that economy growth not because of aggregate demand but because of contraction of aggregate population supply.
WHAT???
http://www.magazinebst.net
Maybe..
Exactly !! Why doesn't everyone else see this ??
Would you run that by me once more?
again in english please.
Economic systems have relied so heavily on constantly increasing populations as the only way to promote "growth". This has been followed to the extreme of gross over-populations of the planet, global warming, massive death due to droughts and failure of crops, new, unusual diseases spread widely by proximity of their "substrate"and ever increasing opportunities for harmful mutations, etc.
Unbridled, nay often encouraged, human reproduction, without the means of feeding, clothing, educating, and employing the offspring, is spiraling to an calamitous conclusion.
But the subject remains untouchable! A political and social "third rail". (Women's right are of course crucial to a new model.)
I would be delighted to hear FZ's take on this totally ignored problem, and an suggestion as to a new economic model based on something other than the current population explosion.
I agree with you, jmw, and I will go a step further. There will not be economic growth, because the world is running out of resources. Any economic upswing causes the price of oil to fly upwards. The air will be sucked out of the western economies by the cost of vanishing resources. In fifty years, we will not be able to support the population of this planet. The human race has never had to deal with a situation like this, and we will wait until it is too late.
I agree with you..I look at India and despair at the environmental degradation that has and is taking place due to huge over population..the 7 billionth baby is being heralded here. Growth is happening here essentially due to demand of this huge population for increasingly better foods and material things like cars TVs etc..somewhere the economists and policy makers have forgotten the old Malthusian theory of population..which outlines that the earth has limited resources and it must be utilized judiciously.One easy way would be to distribute population across the world to take care of growth . For example there are many in India who are salivating at the real estate available in the US (some are investing) however if the US were to open up immigration to say people who invest in property there ..am sure the this one act would kick start the flagging economy of the US again.
If overpopulation was the result of seeking economic growth then the U.S. and Europe would be the most crowded places on earth. Population growth only become overcrowding in situations where resources are poorly managed, typically as a result of poor governance.
You are right in that we need a different model. There is one but it gets little publicity and currently has little traction. It's called a steady state economy and is championed by groups such as The Club of Rome and the Center for the Advancement of the Steady State Economy. Continued economic growth is just not possible on a finite planet. In the end we have to work less hours while all contributing to our overall wealth and health. We need more time in our lives rather than more things. A steady state economy does this. In the body continued growth of individual cells means that we die because of cancer. This is what continued economic growth is, a cancer on our society that will kill us in decades to come. We just cannot see it now.
i agree with roland. growth ia a way but look what happened with that model. growth cannot grow foreever with out leading to todays problem. rome as an empire grew only because it took over other societies to feed itself. when rome reached its limit of conquest it rapidly declined. the us has gone to at least three industrial revolutions which employed the declining farm population, absorbed the war expansions, and the technological revoludtion of space exploration. as an example industry can only grow with population expansion and not with increased consumption. therefore the annual increase in profits is not sustainable now or in the future unless another revolution occurs and then what are we to do with the unemployed workers.
Dr. jmw: It seems to me that most of the comments on this article have one thing in common: "Population Growth". The readers think that population growth is the major (or only) issue for all this economic crisis.
While it maybe considered an issue to some extent, the major PROBLEM in European Union and USA is "FREE Social Security/Government benefits".. Governments spend a MAJOR amount from their budget on unemployment benefits, healthcare, social benefits (which goes to bums). Even if the govt. doesn't have enough money to provide these benefits,it take LOAN from other countries and increase their Debt. Hence, the DEBT crisis in EU and USA.
A solution to the debt problem is to reduce all the SOCIAL BENEFITS and increase TAX on rich people. Peace.
Very well put! Unfortunately our economic system is based on "growth". Short-sighted and greedy capitalists are never happy with fair profits. They always want more this year than last year. Growth has to stop!
We consume way too much. We produce too much. We work long hours like in 1950. We should reduce the workday to 7 hours or the work week to 4 days. More time to read, more time to hike, more time to go to the beach and enjoy life. Only the capitalist wants an expanding economy; they want to make more money. For what? To buy a bigger castle?
@Sharang And what do people do with such things as Social Security and unemployment benefits? It's money. They SPEND IT and it helps create demand in the economy. And therefore jobs. And tax revenue. Cutting social benefits doesn't necessarily equal a better economic outlook.
I agree. Never ending growth is not sustainable unless we find other paces to go. We have to get use to living within our means. The world economy is one big Ponzi scheme where the next, and usually more populous, generation pays for the follies of the previous one. We're wasting the finite resources that we do have and we're scrificing quality of life in favour of standard of living. The whole environmental issue can be mitgated quite simply in one or two generations. Get the world population back down to a sustainable level of 1-2 Billion level.
You;ve hit the nail on the head!!
I think it has more to do with eliminating corruption, slowing population grow, and optimizing the infrastructure of economies as they are. You can't just keep "growing" in a finite context.
A country relies on a thriving birth rate to renew its working forces. Italy has the lowest in Western Europe, Germany envies France and Sweden. There's a risk that the current generation is relutctant to have children because of the burden they dread to carry, due to financial insecurities.
Population is unquestionably the world's major problem. In India, they are running out of water – yes, water. Climate change, oil and other resource depletion are all being caused by over-population.
Thank God at least the Chinese realised that some decades ago and introduced the one-child-per-family quota. It was draconian and should not happen in a democracy but it is estimated that it saved the World 400 million people.
This should be the main aim for the UN, above climate change, war and global health. This is the root cause of those problems. It is not simple. If we plan to reduce the world' population then somehow we must provide for the numbers of old people that live while it's happening.
Not easy but absolutely necessary.
@Clivie, the French poiltical philosopher Marquis de Condorcet (1743-1794) had already pointed out the possibility of food-shortage, if the serious overpopulation in the world wouldn't slow down.
That's why there is immigration...problem solved.
Overpopulation is one of the most obvious problems there is. It doesn't take a philosopher, a cave man can figure that out.
China implemented a fix for a China problem. It's like praising the US for fixing obesity, it's a problem that didn't have to be there in the first place.
Think about it mate, less population means less tax collected. Pension costs go up so guess what government needs to raise taxes to pay for it. Europe only has a couple of countries that are money earners, the rest are bankrupts. Overall Europe is poor.
Less population also means less tax money spent.
The real problem is the profile of a shrinking population – more old people relative to younger, producing people.
But given that Europe is already overpopulated, there may be no option but to grin and bear it
The problem you bring up is a dynamic of a transitional stage. It has to be managed, but once you are beyond the population bubble you can maintain a steady state.
More than 80 years of free abortion in most of the european countries ...and you have the social and economic costs exploding now ...there is a demographic crisis not a economic crisis , 2.1% limit its real and dangerous to any living group , be humans or not , bellow this you have extiction, like it or not !!
This is ridiculous. In many European countries abortion is not legal or free, and in the places where it is, the rate of abortion isn't nearly so high that it could account for lower birth rates. They aren't even high at all in the liberal countries. Abortion rates are much higher in the United States than in the Netherlands, for example.
Also, birth rates are actually rising. They are not far below the replacement rate (2.1 per woman) in Scandinavia and some West European countries (France's birth rate is far above it, even). It is mostly East and South European countries where they are far too low. And because of the youth unemployment there, there is substantial migration of well educated Southern Europeans to the Northern countries.
And I forgot to add that economic growth has been rapid in many of those Northern countries, so you are right about it not being an economic crisis, at least for those specific European countries.
Get psychiatric help.
80 years of free abortions means significantly fewer people collecting welfare, few illiterates, fewer criminals, less crime – in general less burden to society on the whole. Interpreting any other way is simply naive and perhaps downright stupid.
If the world is not ticking around 7.0%+ growth every year the media let's us all know...especially the investment market folks. This is an end-game mentality. Why must we be willing to grow grow grow? Grow to what? A strip mall in every corner of the world? Bad investment by politicians so they can use a positive growth model to get reelected. What are we headed for? What will money or precious metals be worth when the world becomes unsustainable?
Well said, my friend. Well said.
I ask this question every day. Then I answer myself... the reason why we need to grow is that we develop enough to be able to migrate into space when the earth is about to explode. But then again, we have 4.5 billion years to do that so I'm not sure what the rush is for.
Is it just a coincidence that the growth rate of 7% is almost the same as the average profit rate of corporations 7%? Could it be that an economic system has to grow to cover what is taken out of the economic distribution to maintain full employment? Just wondering.
alateos, true, but we're not working towards space or any sort of human progress at all. We burn up all our resources on bankers and other parasites instead of finding ways to improve our quality of life and odds of long term survival.
Look at banker pay vs physics pay and you'll know why we'll never develop the technology to move into space. The bankers will consume our resources long before we evolve the intelligence to escape. If we ever do get smart enough we'll probably find there are no fossil fuels left to power the machines to dig up all the rare earth minerals that were put in iphones and buried in landfills.
declining population by age advance, meaning less productivity tat subsidises aging welfare benefits, tat is a doomsday for the entire nation. Needing a immigration policy to siphon cheap labour from Afghanistan to start the engine of manufacturing for export, a typical growh tat Fareed is mentioning. Otherwise how to align that landscape grobalisation tat killed its creatior own economy. Thing will change to betterment if the habitual wastage is lifted from the entire nation. try farming and agriculture are the key to this basic civilization. less fuel consumption, basic entertainment more reading book n stay home for dinner , reading to children , kill all holidaying, will reverse the hope to next generation, not the debt to them, it is time current generation sacrifice for next coming generation, because wat we have inherited if the greed of our own generation.
Yes, because there won't be enough Germans to support their unsustainable social welfare state.
Thank you for at least hinting at the real problem – growth is irrelevant once you can get past the objective of giving money to people that did nothing to earn it. All economies could grow if they were not burdened by a vast and growing number that have apparently forgotten to save for retirement, forgot to stay healthy, or at the other end of the spectrum forgot to participate in life in general by dropping out of school, starting their family as a teenager, and being a general burden to those that responsible for themselves.
This artical and many of the comments miss a series of fundamental points. Wealth is not money, wealth is the labor and consumption of human beings. Europe's past low birth rate has led to less workers and less consumers so it will have less wealth period. Non-labor productivity increases ie robots, increase wealth for the few, not the many so are practically worthless for debt repayment without exceeding ly high marginal tax rates. The European share of the world GDP will decline until they start having more children. That goes for all of Asia as well. So no growth means that the current occupants of europe must learn to live with less to pay off their debt. Hence a lower standard of living for a very long time, easily 50 years.
IF there is no growth of younger tax payer, who is going to support the social security system and the running of the economy and government. Aging does not translate into more wealth if there is no younger population.
What you say will not be true because the older population (who are not working) needs money from the younger working population. If there is not enough younger population then there will be no money to pay the older population.
Europe is not US.Trying to put together different culture well determineted for centuries on the 21 century big mistake from the begin.What do you want more look how Russia is divided in pieces, Yugoslavia, etc.Europeans are nationalistic Im not talking about economical differences.But the greedness of rich and powerfull people made all this mess.Thanks
The true problem with this whole mess ist the underlying system, socialism, which is NEVER going to work in a society or country that values FREEDOM. It, as a system has failed, miserably, eveywhere it's been tried. Europe should have seen this coming, with weaker, less productive countries thinking they were ALWAYS going to be propped up, bailed out, or otherwise handed something that they didn't earn, just like the welfare recipients they are. These failed countries are going to have to accept the rules of the system THEY wanted, since they reap the benefits, they have to pay the price. Let's just hope the Eurozone doesn't drag the rest of the world down with it.
Europe's real problem is the Euro currency I mean isnt it obvious?
In theory, no. But like most countries in western Europe and the US, a large portion of the population do not produce anything while consuming public resources – they're retired or on some form of gov't subsidy. So their consumption must be offset by productivity elsewhere. In sum, they need more producers or huge increases in productivity to grown.
Exactly.
Yes. While the population is declining it is also aging. An older population costs more in services and produces less. All this is very well, but, Fareed, your reporting has a major flaw: no proposed solutions. You are a smart man, well educated. Why isn`t your name on a ballot. Why do you not propose solutions? We really need help right about now.
Regarding Germany's decreased population. You are assuming that decline is due to elderly deaths and lack of child birth and not that fact that vast amounts of German businesses are moving to Switzerland, US and South America where the so called free markets are not so manipulated. As a result they take their wealth and much of the population with them.
Zero population growth in the European countries means that fundamental change has to come to their respective societies. The numbers of people paying into the social welfare systems are dwindling while those on the dole are increasing. The northern European countries are in the best position, for now.
Deregulation in the 90s, the tech bubble at the end of the 90s, which signaled a recession around 2001, and 911 in combination caused this situation. Most of this resulted from government either through active intervention with deregulation or the lack of intervention in protecting the country from 911. Cheap money encourages people to take risks they wouldn't if the penalties were much higher. It encouraged much too much risk taking. What would have happened if interest rates after 911 were at 5-6% and stayed that way? I think arguing that the outcdome would have been the same isn't credible.
The notion that a stimulus can get us out of this mess ignores the basic fact that the government cannot spend this money (roughly $1T) because it netiher has the capacity to spend it given the amount nor the competency to do so. It is amazing that the government with a factually poor track record of spending taxpayer dollars is looked upon as the best way of solving our economic problems. This is just dogma. People who advocate this should spend sometime within government as employees to get some practical experience on how government actually works or doesn't work. Our recent experience proves that government produces less than zero.
". People who advocate this should spend sometime within government as employees to get some practical experience on how government actually works or doesn't work."
Yes – I would suggest taking your own advice – as clearly you reach a conclusion that is completely wrong.
Your comment is anti-government dogma. The laughable part is where you say most of this resulted from government, because they didn't properly regulate an irresponsible private sector. There is no factual or rational analysis here, just a string of anti-government talking points that ignore important realities. I sincerely wish every one of you drones who parrots this nonsense about government not doing anything would move to a country that actually has a government that doesn't do anything, like Somalia.
@skytag. There is more to a spectrum than just its polar ends. Unregulated capitalism will always implode. A pure socialist model is also not sustainable.
Anti-govt dogma ? All large organisations get poorer and poorer at spending money efficiently and effectively because their management becomes less and less careful with their resources as they get larger. Government is the largest organisation of them all in any given country.
The reason for that is Darwinian. In the prvate sector – and remember most private sector organisations are pretty small – if you spend money stupidly you go out of business. Givernment does not go out of business. It can spend money as stupidly as it likes.
It's that simple.
I have to agree with you but there is such a large number of gov't employees (if I remember correctly, there are now more gov't union members than private industry) that any solutions have to accept this fact. If not, the solution is likely doomed to failed.
9/11, 9/11, 9/11...nonsense. I'm sick and tired of everyone blaming everything on 9/11. If everyone had been like me and stopped caring about 9/11 on 9/12, the world would have been far better off.
Private corporations are no better than governments when it comes to competancy. The difference is you can vote out incompetant government officials before they wreck the country.
I find it odd that you acknowledge 90's deregulation as the cause of many of our woes and then decry government involvement in the same breath.
Shannon,
You must be from Canada. Howelse have you been unaffected by American Greed? The problem is that there are finite resourses and a growing number of ppl. It requires a redistribution of wealth. This is either done by forced redistribution by government or redistribtion through capitalism approved by a blind, stupid public that thinks that one day they will be part of the elite that the wealth is redistributed to. This reminds me of the monarchies the world used to have where an exclusive few owned everything and everyone else had a subsistence living. Wake up, people! The uber-rich do not marry the uber-poor. As the wealth concentrates more and more, most of you tunnel-visioned entrepeneur class will become vassals of the kings!
Everyone, repeat EVERYONE, needs to become less greedy and learn to live with what they have. Money paid to a bank or an enterpeneur is not in your wallets anymore than money paid to the govronment. It will not trickle down to you from either source. A rising tide does not raise all boats. I sinks those that are anchored to the bottom.
Simple said. Only they need growth. If someone would be able to figure it out, there would never be any downturns, because anytime there is slowdown, they just apply that golden rule, we know how to growth. By bailing Banks it won't be any solution to that.
Is the only problem a lack of growth, sir, or is it in an economic philosophy of constant growth? Maybe the myopic condition can be corrected with a prescriptive change in the economic lens.
Agreed, the requirement for growth has been like an anvil over our heads. In almost the same breath we're being told we need a vacation, but we need to work harder, longer, and faster. The reality is that the current system is leading us to economic collapse, war, poverty, and starvation. The jalopy of a system we're riding in is out of gas but still rolling quickly down hill. So the only options on the table are either get a new model that works, or wait untul we crash and burn. And by the looks if things, the powers to be have opted for the later. Goodluck to all.
Indeed, it is mathematically evident that no finite environment can support an infiniite conversion of resources into marketable goods before that environment has no more resources for any use. Our current economic system is presumed to offer opportunities for growth without limit. The only response is that nobody now alive will know the difference in hundred years, two hundred years.
It's a continuation of an old story, humans hunt out all the game or wear out the soil from from farming where they have lived, then just move on. Only when people have the presence of mind to realize that they must manage their resources to prosper will they act any differently.
Exactly! Good point Eric. Fareed has my upmost respect-However, you can't expect infinite growth year after year with our finite resources. At some point in time that well will go dry.
As long as the population holds steady or declines, slow growth is just fine. If Germany were the entire world then 1% growth would be fine because their population is actually declining. The problem is that population is still exploding in other places, growth is exploding in other places, and this is creating inflation that slow growth simply can't overcome.
A country like Germany isn't really the problem, they're simply a victim of their own past success contrasted with the growth of other nations that need explosive economic growth just to catch up.
Don't expect the trend to change in our generation. The rest of the world is going to continue growing and catching up, and that's happening by siphoning the economic energy out of Europe and the USA. There are a LOT of people in China and India who are still very far down the wealth pyramid. It's going to take a lot of time and effort before those places are close to the West in prosperity, and until that happens, we'll continue to hear that loud sucking sound.
Agree with Eric. Any well designed system strives for reliability and stability. Growth, overpopulation, etc. work against these principles. There should periods of both decline and growth in our economies and populations, unfortunately this has not yet happened. Imagine how much easier it would be to meet energy demands if the worlds population was reduced 50%.
These commentators have forgotten we have been at war for ten years now. What are we going to do when our military downsized and more people need jobs? Our veterans already have a 30% unemployment rate.
The perfect solution is to prove Canada a terrorist state through and through, declare war and invade.
I second that idea... we should re-adopt the articles of confederation which included a clause on the USA's "absorption" of Canada
We're not worried. You can't invade what you can't find on a map.
We should think about the impact of military intervention and non-military interdiction before we act. We know the boom bust cycles of war and post-war. They're not new. Yet we went into Iraq knowing that what we were doing is wrong – it's now apparent that many members of the Bush administration knew full well that there were no weapons of mass destruction and that though SH was a sadist – he was our sadist. We created the monster, we fanned the flames, we did nothing – just as we're doing in Syria today. Americans have become the laughing stock as cry out in HORROR once the media is able to get pictures of mass graves and dead bodies back to us – until then it's business as usual. I wish we would get our ducks in a row in the US. We should have attended to our domestic issues sixty years ago, concentrated on what Carter said was important in the 1970's and gotten out of the Monroe Doctrine business.
Likely we will go to war with Iran for another 10 years until we remove and replace all of their troublesome leadership.
@Steve Forbes
Saying easy money at the fed is the root of our condition. Is like saying that if you over eat at the
Hometown buffet and become sick, it's Hometown fault.
exactly
Which Washington was Messrs. Forbes and Stephens laying the blame on? The one that is dedicated to the well being of the nation or the one where business , financial and top 1% interests have heaped mountains of influence buying cash onto.
This Halloween I'm going as something really scary – a lobbyist.
Jack Heinsius
Jack Heinsius
If you really want to scare people, slip into a purple tee shirt and go as a union goon.
Fareed Zakaria GPS Sunday , with Steve Forbes at round table and others.
Here is my problem! No one ask the question of where the 7 trillion dollars in US debt over a 3 year period went ????
I can tell you where it didn't go. NOT TO SOCIAL SECURITY,,,NOT TO MEDICARE,,,NOT TO THE TEACHERS, POLICE, AND
FIRE FIGHTERS,,,NOT TO SENIOR CITIZENS AND SURELY NOT TO ME and the MIDDLE CLASS OR THE POOR.
i'LL TELL YOU WHERE ! ! the big corporations, the wealthy paying less % tax than me, THE 2 WARS FOR 10 YEARS,
and WALL STREET THEFT AND GREED . PERIOD.
Exactly correct. And the on-going plan is to milk it to death.
These 1percenters know that the current system will collapse, so they are ensuring that they "get theirs" before it does so. The only real answer is reduction in population... which NO ONE WILL TOUCH except China. I disagree with their means, but it is the only answer. It sure isn't the US answer... 50 million illegals and 38 million legal aliens in 2010.
It seems to me that most of the comments have one thing in common: "Population Growth". The readers think that population growth is the major (or only) issue for all this economic crisis.
While it maybe considered an issue to some extent, the major PROBLEM in European Union and USA is "FREE Social Security/Government benefits".. Governments spend a MAJOR amount from their budget on unemployment benefits, healthcare, social benefits (which goes to bums). Even if the govt. doesn't have enough money to provide these benefits,it take LOAN from other countries and increasing their Debt. Hence, the DEBT crisis in EU and USA.
A solution to the debt problem is to reduce all the SOCIAL BENEFITS and increase TAX on rich people. Peace.
The money slated for "shovel ready" projects went in to prop up the collapsing public sector union pension system.
The next big bubble to burst in the USA will be the public sector pension systems.
Poof.
Curious where exactly you were in Germany and from whom you sensed this gloomy mood. Here in Berlin there's much discussion but the mood according to my equally subjective impression is far from gloomy. Presumably you are referring to the mood around the platinum round-table? Is team World Bank feeling a bit glum? Poor dears.
You should have a chat with Markus Zwicklbauer, because for a German, and a tax advisor to boot, he's almost ready to go to jail in protest of what the German government is doing with his tax dollars.
Every country has a few tax-obsessed whiners.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Things don't seem gloomy at all down here in Bavaria.
egypts core problem is the brotherhood and people like fareed minimizing it. Not only that, but you have a whole society that was brought up to hate jews and christians as if it were mothers milk...
nuff said
The Brotherhood would cut off Zakaria's head and throw his body into a ditch. I don't think Zakaria gets it.
Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80%932010
wiki............really?? Isnt even accpetalbe to a school , Thats your answer??
I know something about Europe and go there for a few months every year, lately.Your articles confuse the problem even more.
There are areas in Europe that are growing by leaps and bounds. The problem is destruction of individual economies and indebteness.The problem is the corruption of politicians and banksters. You are trying to put the blame for problems on people that are not really responsible for the crisis. The Wall Street selling of toxic assetts , the Brussell's planned economy, the vast beaurocracy that was created which stiffles national economies, the burden of debt -these are the causes which create poverty and misery. The 1% are getting richer, the 99% are facing austerity measures. Why do you think there are protests ? Because they are lazy, too many vacations ? Only the media perpetrates such nonsense.
Europe is overcrowded compared to the US and can not handle unlimited immigration.
The globalists say that European population is going down-wonderful. The Chinese have one child policy and have been doing very well. How many more people do you want ? 10 % of European workers can produce enough goods for half the world . If they keep bringing Chinese imports , have influx of immigrants -they will have everywhere 20%plus unemployment like they have in Spain for years or bloodshed.
I believe in close to zero immigration for all countries. Each country needs to develop its own resources and limit its population accordingly. Since the entire world is actually overcrowded, this will have to be done in any case. The US is not underpopulated at our standard of living, since we are already utilizing resources of other countries. 80 million immigrants is unsustainable. Time to create a new economic model that is about downsizing population instead of "unlimited growth" which everyone realizes... but may not want to talk about since it certainly goes against many religions.
The problem is not so much growth as a readjustment in the global distribution of income and wealth. In the OECD countries we pay our middle class five times what other countries pay theirs, even though they have the same quality of education, skills and access to technology as our middle class. In a world of free trade this cannot be sustained. What we are seeing is stagnant or declining middle class incomes in the OECD because of this. In fact governments are struggling to mask a readjustment which by rights should be dropping OECD middle class incomes by at least 50% right now. The top 1% can profit from this arbitrage and does because they are globally mobile and depend on capital for their income and wealth not labor. In a generation or so things will even out – if we do not destroy the planet for human habitation in the process as a billion more people get cars and eat meat – but there will be suffering along the way. In a sense, at a global level, a certain greater social justice is taking place – since eventually the accident of being born in a non OECD country will not be the big draw back it once was. Most of our OECD middle class will not see it that way for some time.
You ignore the fact that we also pay our executives ten times more.
The EU's problem is growth? Really?? This has been talked about for decades. Even in the modern sense of GDP growth per year, Europe was lagging nations during the heady 90's...that was one impetus for creating the EU. I guess if there's nothing else to write about, state the obvious.
True. Since the 1970s ghe only sector to experience any appreciable growth in Europe has been the public sector.
Now they can't afford to pay the pensions.
And you are basing that assumption on what data? (hint: your ass doesn't count)
Economic growth as we have come to know it is over: there is no more cheap energy left to fuel it. Much of the growth of the 20th century was a result of cheap oil...$20 could buy the equivalent energy of 15,000 man-hours of labor (one barrel of oil). Those days are past. Until we find another cheap, abundant energy source, we are not going to return to the 3-5% annual growth rates we take for granted (but which are really an aberration; the historic norm for growth since antiquity is more like 0.25% a year.
We need to write off all this debt and come up with a new monetary and banking system that does not rely on compound interest and eternal growth.
BULLPLOP! There is plenty of 'cheap energy' still left out there to support economic growth. The biggest problem today is that energy prices are being MANIPULATED by SPECULATORS and increased to a level that they shouldn't really be out, so people can 'get richer quick'.
Last sentence is exactly correct. Write off the debt of current developed nations and start over with a new internationaly constructed reserve currency based on electronic dollars and a board of members that will issue massive infrastructure and medical system support loans that can be financed with 100 to 200 year bond issues and will monitor appropriate regulation and encourage sustainability while not suffocating capitalisms strong points. What possible difference could time make when you think of it on this scale. Many people are calling for a new economic model so let's get it going. It is time for mankind to enter a new era that takes us all into a better future.
Sounds like trying to get 500 monkeys to sing in harmony.
I've noticed this from living in Europe and reading all I can about their issues. I feel these Countries with the self inflicted problems should feel the pain then make the changes from the past of asking but, not repaying if at all. People and Countries get wery of those who seem to take advantage. So often each country acts as it wants not looking at the big picture or future. Europe can't act with each counrty alone. They have to act as a whole to help everyone. These Governments have to straiten up and not do what they have been doing putting it off for their children.
Turkish economy is growing rapidly. Turkey is in G20, it's economy is in top ten best economies of the near future in every forecast. The majority of the population consists of young people, about 40% of whom are under the age of fifteen and 72% are below the age of 35. In European countries, it is the complete opposite, population mostly consists of elderly people and both their working population and general population are in decline. Europe is slowly realizing that their survival depends on getting Turkey in EU. Having only customs union with Turkey, as is now, will not save Europe. Europeans, in the past, moved with their feelings when taking members in. Greek economy did not meet the criteria for Euro monetary union, they played with numbers which their cheat was later found out, but they still let them stay in and kept quiet, and they are now paying the consequences of their own actions. Same applies for Cyprus, which is in the same condition as Greece but delaying the outcome as much as possible like them. The most insignificant and bankrupt nations of Europe, Greece and Cyprus, are slowing down the negotiations between Turkey and EU, taking the union further down along with themselves. On the other hand Turks are realizing that becoming an EU member might not be a good idea at all.
Well put Marek. The answer to Europe's growth problem is Turkey. Sooner or later they will realize that.
Turkeys economy is growing rapidly but 60/100 of population cannot never eat meat or chiken or buy new clothes. We dont need such <>.
ohm, where did u get those numbers from? politicians opposing turkeys membership to EU? try reading the real stuff rather than made up news!
Just as in life , when growth stops , death starts.
sending manufacturing and services jobs offshore will create more unemployed people at home which wont help economy in anyway and eventually your service providers will have so many surplus reserves of your currency that you will have to up price to make them do work for you. More appropriate solution would be to balance it with similar operations at home but ofcourse that wont be able to feed the corporate greed.
increase in population is not synonymous to ecomic growth
Anyone looking to learn more about Europe's situation should read Mark Steyn's "After America". It leans a little to the right and goes into more than just Europe but it does a great job of explaining Europe's Economic (and cultural) decline and the dangers of America following that path.
Yes. That book is worth reading. But as nations we're doing nothing about it.
How about an overwhelming immigrant class that shops the European social systems for the best deals and arrives at their doorstep without any vision or ambition and just sucks money out of the host country without contributing anything?
Which groups, my friend? Evidence?
Liberals like Zakaria fail to admit it is because 1) High TAXES, and 2) LIBERAL SOCIAL PROGRAMS that cause people to not expand business and lowers worker productivity. THIS IS WHAT NANCY PELOSI WANTS FOR US. Liberals aren't smart enough to get it. If the gov't takes care of us, why would we want to be productive, work super hard to build a business, or anything else. NANNY STATE HERE I COME.
Yea right!
I suppose 31 years of Reaganomics and Trickle Down, 8 years of Bush, and 5.5 years of Repugnant Obstruction had nothing to do with it?
Don't forget Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and the Community Reinvestment Act.
Appalled, we did forget that, because everything you mentioned are Tea Party urban myths. Barney Frank and the CRA had nothing to do with the financial crisis.
And considering that "socialist" countries like Canada, Germany, and France are currently outperforming the US kind of blows your "the problem is socialism" theory out of the water.
You're right. the only thing that trickles down is the s#$t that the oligarchs want to trickle down. Which is their s$&t.
I don't always agree with Zakaria but he is trying SOMETIMES, NOT ALWAYS, TO JUST ADDRESS PROBLEMS WITHOUT MINDLESS DYSFUNCTIONAL BLAME AND GUILT LIKE YOU . Brenda you should unplug your mind from the FOX newsfeed and BS. Zakaria a liberal? is reality liberal or conservative? DUHHHH! Get a life and something besides bs hatred tearing a country down instead of looking what can be done. From negative small minds come stalled no growth hatred, not positive growth.
The author convieniently ignores that the real problem is uneqal distribution of wealth. When the middle class and poor do not have money to spend the economy cannot grow. He mistakenly thinks that economic growth is created by taking away economic components that create demand, such as higher high wages, a comfortable retirement, The reason for the lack of growth is that too few people control too much of the wealth and it just sits in non productive financial instruments. The underlying problem that the trickle down theory of economics completely ignores the fact that in the U.S. each dollar spent creates over 1.5 dollars in economic activity, down significantly from pre trickle down era, but still the key driver of the economy. Spending is how growth is created!
Growth cannot be created when wages are too high. Why would I pay a high wage to a lazy Westerner, when I can get better output from an ambitious Chinese? Why is comfortable retirement a goal? I'm planning to work until I can no longer do so. As Westerners we have forgotten that most people in this world, (and some "rich" included), don't retire and don't take vacations.
I don't understand anyone who thinks lowering the wages of westerners is a good idea. While it has some merits if one looks at only certain statistics, the truth is if you cut the ability of Westerners to spend, who the hell is going to buy the rich people's products?
The purchasing power of China is going up, but their per capita wealth is not close to the western powers wealth. You cannot expect a capitalistic system to work without giving a percentage of the world the power to buy products.
China is a bubble. It's going to pop some day. Most of the workers who build our I-phones and high def TV sets can't afford to buy what they build. They aren't even allowed to move their families to the towns (if you want to call them towns) where they work. And if they complain, they're thrown into jail by the authorities.
The workers' paradise has been built on weak and shifting sand.
Mike:
Congrats on being able to recite nonsensicle talking points, but you did not address my main point. For every dollar spent in the U.S. economy, it creates at least 1,5 dollars in economic activity. If people are not spending money the economy cannot grow. You need to take an economics class. Trickle down economics does not work. Good luck with that.
Well go ahead and live your boring, meaningless life as you see fit. perhaps there's a sweatshop for you somewhere.
We still take vacations and hope for some kind of small retirement. It's called pursuing a real life.
I think Pat hit the nail on the head. Mike, your life sounds like a pointless and miserable existence.
Mike:
Congrats on being able to recite nonsensicle talking points, but you did not address my main point. For every dollar spent in the U.S. economy, it creates at least 1,5 dollars in economic activity. If people are not spending money the economy cannot grow. You need to take an economics class. Trickle down economics does not work.
Europe's problem is zero growth. Zero growth is what you get when politicians promise unsustainable pensions to quasi socialist public sector unions.
Are you paying attention, California? Washington? Wisconsin? Oregon? Illinois? Ohio? New Jersey? New York? Pennsylvania? Maryland? D.C.?
Right! We are currently in a contraction...the baby boom generation was guite an expansion, there were needs for housing, clothing, food, cars, fuel, etc The housing bubble has burst, and other bubbles are swelling to their bursting points as well....get ready, it will be tougher before it gets better, GROWTH....you dont need it (or wont have it) if you are not growing people..We are now in a contraction and abortions, gay marriage, disease, starvation and killing wars will help control population, but the need for more housing and automobiles,(goods and services) will be/has been stifled...this calls out the failing of the liberal policy of pushing debt on down the road....no babies means no more taxpayers, so go have another abortion and celebrate gay marriage, Perry was right about Social security, except he forgot to add the Federal Govt........"PONZAI SCHEMES"
Our economic model of endless growth is the problem. Endlessly more people and endlessly profligate use of resources. We need a different model. Of course, the powers that be will destroy the system before they admit this does not work. Example: US birth rates are decling. Government response: 50 Million illegal aliens dropping anchor babies and 38 Million legal aliens in 2010 alone. Shift the economy from producing for ourselves to One World where we seem to only produce armaments... leading to world militarism and economic collapse. Our corporations and governments do the same idiocies over and over without a brain in their collective heads.
And if our economy doesn't grow, how do you plan to support your family?
Tax the rich! They've always got the dough.
All ya gotta do is ask to mow their lawns.
Bring your vattos.
The only way an economy can grow is by reinvestment of surplus over maintenance. If, instead, that surplus is used, or more than used, subsidising non-productive elements of society, growth cannot take place. Since WWII, Europe has been spending its economic surpluses on a large array of social services and neglecting reinvestment, hence its current situation.
The US, in contrast, didn't seriously start neglecting reinvestment until the sixties, fifteen or twenty years later than Europe, which is why we're in comparatively better shape. But we do need to learn by Europe's mistake and start to roll back social service and re-emphasise reinvestment.
Yes that's working perfectly Henry. All those American corps. are reinvesting in the country by selling all our jobs to India for 20%. You Sir are lit by a dim bulb.
Oh yessssss, you're doing sooooooo much better. Higher real unemployment, more debt, more poverty...say, I forget, which country started the financial crisis in the first place? Hint: it wasn't a European one.
Side comment: I was in Berlin recently, and I did not find the mood any more "gloomy" than usual. I think what Americans don't understand is that constant smiling at strangers (or smiling in general) is NOT the norm in Europe, as it is on the other side of the pond. Also, some people, while polite, are more reserved towards strangers. It is easy for Americans interpret this as a sign that people are unfriendly or depressed.
European dude is correct. People often do not smile in public...
The world is on the cusp of an Islamo fascist nuclear holocaust, the public sector pension system is collapsing, Europe is going broke and socialism is finally doing the same thing to Western Europe that it did to Eastern Europe.
What's to smile about?
Time to re-think society as one not based on economic growth.
Who is going to support your family?
Why, the rich, of course! The rich can support everybody.
All ya gotta do is raise their taxes, knock on their door and ask to mow their lawns.
Zakaria seems to have overlooked an important fact in his own article. If Germany will be able to grow its economy with a declining population, that means that the standard of living, on average, will be increasing <1% per year. Compare that with the US, where the standard of living has been declining for the past decade. One always needs to put the economic growth of countries on a per capita basis to take account of population changes when comparing them.
I meant >1%
Germany has 6% unemployment, in spite of absorbing the former East Germany, lower deficit levels as a % of GDP than the US, a high standard of living with generous social benefits, and 1.5% growth. And they face a crisis???
In my opinion, the core problem is that more and more wealth has been concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, and these hands are sitting on their wealth instead of investing it in the working class. Trickle-down economics does not work because the rich hoard their assets in times of uncertainty creating economic stagnation. Until the wealthy decide to spend on workers again, growth will not happen.
christian countries are not having growth because they cannot rob thirld world countries anymore.
And what is the Third World doing with this newfound peace and prosperity?
Hacking each other's arms off. That's what they're doing.
What makes you think they ever stopped robbing them? Instead of country based companies exploiting their resources, it is transnationals located in these same "christian countries" that exploit the less economically developed countries and the money then gets added to the country of origin's tax pool (theoretically, not since Reaganomics).
Absolutely agree with you Fareed Zakaria.
Perhaps Mr. Zakaria slept through Econ 101, especially the part where Adam Smith explains what is needed for economic growth. In case you forgot as well, they are; a steadily increasing supply of natural resources, steadily improving manufacturing capabilities, steadily increasing markets and, of course, capital. Nineteenth century economists pointed out that the party would be over when the first three went into short supply, which they have. Until we start mining the moon and Mars and open up trade with Tralfalmador and Arcturus there isn't going to be any growth. Oh, Adam Smith did mention one other thing; the government should put down any attempts by the workers to organize and demand higher wages. That would interfere with the growth of capital, you see.
But are you taking into account what economists after him said?
I dunno. Why don't you tell us what those economists said?
And when you reply, make sure you differentiate between economists, communists and socialists.
They're apples and oranges, you know.
Europe's core problem is the same as America's:
FRAUD and CORRUPTION of bankers and power-brokers in governments.
.
You forgot the corrupt public sector unions and the quasi socialist politicians who countenance their outrageous pension demands and leave office before the mud hits the fan blades.
please give me a private letter, to show of their abundant energy to support their citizens . Please keep it right about of everything. Thank you！
Access to capital? Really? Corporations are sitting on tons of money. There's no investment because there is no demand. There's no demand because workers have not been sharing in the productivity and profit gains.
Greece does have it's own problems–corruption and wealthy who don't pay taxes. But unfortunately the only "solutions" are to attack the unemployed.
The financiers and banks were getting a high rate of return on the Greek debt because there was a chance at default. So yes, they need to loose some money in this crises.
Fareed,
You are mistaken in that any growth anywhere is even possible. A few pockets here and there is hardly growth. The world's economy is based upon used up finite resources that will never return. Is growth that important? The truth is, in order to grow in other directions beyond oil, auto and housing, the global economy is going to have to contract and find a new path. I don't think it will and we are headed for a total collapse of the global markets.
Why is this man published? I've never seen an article by Mr Zachariah that connected with anything I know about the US or other western countries. Did I learn all the wrong things in 18 years of educaton, or is Fareed out of touch with the way we think? Nothing he proposes is going to make sense or have an impact until he can speak to those he wishes to "help".
I believe the problem is in your use of "we".
Fareed Zakaria is a nice guy, but he is too left-leaning and misguided. He tries too hard to be the Third World version of Tom Friedman, who is also too left-leaning and misguided.
Growth continue to slow for many reasons. And people can argue about aging populations, declining populations, restricitve immigration policies limiting population increases, and other items. And they would be right, that all of these items do contibute in some way to slowing economic growth. But the biggest continuing drag on the econmic engines of Europe is, all of the socilist policies. Remember that many of these policies were forumulated based on mistaken assumptions around population growth. So as population leveled out and starts dropping all of these programs and overly generous benefits start to fail. The solution has been to increases fees and taxes to pump more income into these programs. But that merely "kicks the can" down the road. You eventually reach a point like in Greece where no matter what you do, the programs cannot be sustained, AND, the people themselves sabatoge the system by doing everything they can to avoid paying taxes and fees (The high taxes and fees in Greece have lead to what one politician called Greece's biggest industry after tourism .. lying on taxes). Germany has been lucky. In absorbing East Germany, there was a lot of pent up productivity and growth on that side of the country. As capitalistic rules moved in, this rebuilding of the East and release of energy has driven Germany growth. But as they get closer and closer to on par with the West, this growth fades. They still get 1% growth as repairing the damage of 50+ years of communist rule leaves a lot to repair. But still, even this life line will fail. Look, if you want proof, look to China. As China removes more and more Communist barriers, the economy has growing at unbelievable levels as all that pent up potential, the energy that was reigned in by bizarre and twisted views of humanity and how they should work together, is finally released. Hong Kong has become a seed in China, spreading it's tendrils throughout the nation. Heck they've even introduced local level elections where people in rural areas run for their own councils (without party affiliation), sort of like localized rule. Baby democracy. Communism and Socialism do not work. And people who continue to believe in those programs are the ones standing on corners in the rain and cold crying and whining.
Nice try Ken. Chinese economy is booming because American corps. will take slave labor (Chinese) if they can get it. The problem is they have been getting away with it. In case you hadn't noticed we live in two different countries. Ever think that Globalism will not work for the U.S.?
Great. Suggestions?
Why doesn't the left ever point out the obvios?
There is no growth and massive debt because governments have increasingly become more socialist over the last century and spent the people's money on things governments should not be spending money on. It is that simple.
Governments are taking n more money than ever ( PER PERSON ) yet keep growing debt. What's that tell you? They sped too much on stuff they shouldn't. Governments should not be in the business of redistribution and charity. It accounts for OVER 68% OF ALL spending by western governments.
Less government, more accountbility, less taxes, less spending. IT IS SIMPLE and has poven to work over and over and over again.
Yet somehow the leftists have half of you people believing it doesn't work. They got you picketing "rich" people like this is an oligarchy in the 1600's. It is ridiculous and a centuries old TRICK that leftists regimes have used time and time again.
Wake up people. A corporation that is too big and pwoerful may be dangerous but they are miniscule compared to a government that is too big and powerful.
Correctamundo, David!
Absolutely David! The government should start by reducing that 1 Trillion dollar/year defense budget. We don't run the danger of invasions from Canada or Mexico. If we remove most of our military bases abroad (hundreds of them), stop toppling other countries' governments and supporting world dictators (Saddam, the Saudi Royal family, the Shah, Marcos, Suharto, Pinochet and many others) not only we will save lots of $ but we may even eliminate the threat of terrorism against.
I think the world has to stop projecting their own economy's growth and live inside a structure that is not always falsely propped up, real expectations for a real world economy. AND Oh Professor. lack of vision, sure we need to trim down a lot but getting rid of the military bases world wide and home, BIG MISTAKE!
Yes they are all trying to trick you. Don't forget to take your pills.
This message was brought to you by corporate shill #435687.
Fareed, please shut the f up, you have no clue regarding the Europe or Middle east situations , you just make analysis because you are getting paid by the Jews and CNN who is controlled by Jews. So shut the F up
The core cause for no growth is the unremitting attempts at paying off debts which cannot be repaid. Growth cannot come with so much going into rescues and bailouts. That coupled with austerity and taxes insures no or slow growth. Growth cannot happen without adequately addressing and eliminating the debts, combined: the global debt. To do so one must look at the numbers themselves.
The numbers (the debts) are too large. A million seconds is 11.5 days. A billion seconds is 32 years. A trillion seconds is 32,000 years. Global debt is $42 trillion plus. Attempts to pay it off, or down, perpetuates the problem
To solve the problem we must understand the numbers and do something else. We must reboot the world economy. Only one thing can do this and that is Global Debt Realignment. http://www.debtrealignment.com
“The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them.” Albert Einstein
We must look at the essence and reality of the problem. The complex must be made simple to understand it. It is difficult for some because so much is in the way of their thinking.
"Simple can be harder than complex: You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple. But it's worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains." Steve Jobs
The simple fact is that unless we implement Global Debt Realignment the world shall suffer for decades with the yoke of debt on people's and countries' backs. Period.
The answer is simple. Scrap the public sector pension systems. Flip 'em to 401Ks like the rest of us. That way the public doesn't have to keep paying fat union workers their full salary after they've loafed on the job for 20 years.
Amen, bro!
That might solve 1/1,000,000,000,000, of the problem. The brain in your head must be like a bb rolling around in a trash can. For what the workers you talk about do and what your idea would do is basically NOTHING. The problem is much BIGGER. You will need public employees like police to protect you and others from you and others because with thinking like this you obviously skipped the education teachers were trying to give you from your own ignorance and destroying the quality of life rather than building it will only make matters worse. Simpleton.
There are two aspects to the European crisis. One is purely financial and linked to the fact that single European counties can no longer print money. The US financial situation is almost as bad as Italy's (actually Italy is running a much smaller deficit even though has a slightly larger debt than the US) but the US can print money and will never run the risk of defaulting on its debt.
The other aspect is structural and common to the West. With rare exceptions, the West doesn't produce goods any longer. Manufacturing has moved to the East. The hopes that a pure "service" economy can sustain large western countries at a high standard of living is a fantasy. For the most part, financial services are pure speculations that redistribute the wealth without adding any value to the society. Health care services are only internal to a country and, in countries like the US with a purely private system, are also a tool for redistribution of wealth from the middle class to a small group of individuals (health insurance admins, specialists, hospital CEOs...).
The hopes that the high-tech industry will remain in the West have also vanished. Asian countries are producing a well trained work force that can do high-tech better and cheaper than the West.
So what can we do? Not much. The West will continue to decay like the Roman empire did two thousands years ago.
If you have a declining population as Germany has, why do they need to grow. Why do people need to consume an increasing amount of goods each year. They certainly don't need to eat increasing amounts of food. Why would they need more cars per person, or more television sets or more miles of road per person. If the population stabilizes, the growth should be stabilize to match.
You raise the critical question: can growth resolve the economic and employment issues in the US? The answer is clearly no. Even with technology advances, there is but so much the Earth can yield per capita. The GDP in the US has been growing since the first quarter of 2009, yet net jobs have been declining in the same period. Clearly, growth is not solving the problems. Capitalism as we know it has failed, a new system has to be found.
Or the problem has been countries like Germany and France let their economy "grow" by ignoring the agreed deficit in the Maastricht Treaty and got unpunished. Germany had set a very serious bad example.
Fareed, you need to put this in perspective:
European Union has an annual GDP of 16 trillion. Arab League, only 1.9 trillion. India, with over a billion people only 2.4 trillion. And China about 9 trillion. The United States with only 300 million people and 1/4 China's population has a GDP of $14.5 Trillion! WOW......Europe and America combined DWARF all of the rest of the world combined! So, The United States and Europe may have troubles and some debt, but we are and will for many years be the dominant driver of not only innovation and commerce and innovation, but money and per capita income......I worry more for Arab countries when oil dries up and China when they cant afford to feed their people.
I only now realized that actually the pic. in the article sums up whatever I have been talking about Europe's demographic time bomb due to hordes of unadaptable Muslims gatecrashing there, and Mr.Zakaria's own bias (& hidden Agenda!) in their favor.
No borders my friend.Legal and illegal imigrants from easter Europe,Afrika and middle East flooding West Europe.That my dear Fareed is in my opinion the problem.
My brother-in-law is from the UK and he would agree with you.
This is true. My brother in law is from the UK, too. He says it's all gone because of refugees from Sub Saharan Africa.
"And at what wage levels? " you ask that question like it's a grim reality that can't be kicked down the road....that the bloated worker wage must get real to insure growth? but how does one compete with 51 cents at hour which apple's sub is paying workers at foxcom? and they're moving it out further into the boonies to reduce that? are we all to work at that? or what about the north koreans slaves who will be paid nothing under these new trade deals with South Korea. is that too much, Fareed?
Tax the rich now! Anyone who isn't employed should be paid $20 an hour so they can live, too! Take the streets back from the capitalist piggies rolling in the dirt! Everyone deserves a government pension.
Pigs!
Maggie Thatcher defined the issue very succinctly: "The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." The socialists may actually have to start working for a compensation package that reflects the market value of their labor. When that happens, you'll see economic growth return to Europe.
Dan:
Capitalism also relies on other people money, it is called customers.
The difference is that one is a voluntary exchange of assets while the other is a forceable taking by government. Of course that assumes the government doesn't force you to buy a particular product, as would be the case with Obamacare.
I don't like you.
Mr. Fareed: I think you are starting to sound too much like some "economy experts" who are obsessed with GDP. It has been shown time and time again that GDP is an obsolete, simplistic way to measure economic success. Yes, things in Europe are a mess right now and so they are in many other parts of the world. Is this not the result of unchecked, constant, perennial economic growth? Perhaps, wouldn't you consider, this mess we are seeing now is the natural collapse of this model based on unending economic and population growth. Instead of imagiing futures where even more growth is needed (at what cost, for God's sake?), why not imagining futures where we embrace downsizing and living more modestly? Perhaps you are too young to still recognize this and part of the problem is that younger generations need to listen to older generations (not the other way around, as it has been the model of modern western societies their CNN's).
II heard your bit on a techno fix that, you claim, will help feed not only the already starving, but the additional 2 Billion expected in the coming 40 years. Then you claim that Europe's problem is too little growth. The issues are related.
The former: cell phones may help farmers take their crops to market but they won't grow much more. Deteriorating soil, llack of water, use of inappropriate crops, mono-cropping that invites pests, all these factors will limit production no matter whether middle men are taken out of the supply chain.
As for growth: we can't afford more growth. It's high time we look for another economic measure that recognizes there are limits to the capacity of the planet to support us.
II'm sure people will say we're no where near the limit, that techno fixes will make it possible for us to deal with 9 Billion and then even more. But at what cost? Are we to celebrate big numbers and ignore the suffering already rampant and sure to get worse as population grows?
II hope you'll give some thought to the quality of life to come as world population grows. At some point, nature is going to rebel and find a means to eliminate a lot of us. Whether it's wide spread drought, the almost certain consequences of climate change, inevitable agricultural failure as we deplete the soil and suck the water out of aquifers that it's taken millenia to charge, the unpleasant consequences of over-crowding, pestilence, or the lack of resilience that our displacing the wide variety of organisms on which we depend for our own vigor, we're in imminent danger of crowding ourselves out of existence..
II'll go one step further: reducing the rate of (population) growth isn't enough. We must begin now to reduce population back to levels that are truly sustainable. If we don't, the sad end our short sighted and selfish civilization will meet will be painful both painful and deserved. The earth will recover or at least go on, but without us.
I[I don't twitter or tweet. It seems to me that if you're going to do commentary then your listeners should have a positive and reliable means of responding to you. I've never been fond of these public forums which so often end up in flames.]
ry
What little respect I had for this guy has been lost with his hyperbole, seriously, the "worst crisis since 1945"? Are you THAT ignorant of European history? The threat of nuclear war, the Berlin Wall, Berlin air lift, etc. were all MUCH worse in absolute terms than this debt crisis. This guy just talks out of his rear end and expects us to listen.
There may be a economical effect here that i haven't heard of, but why exactly must a country mostly saturated with technological innovation (productionwise) and a declining population have total GDP economical growth?
It makes little sense unless the welfare of the people in the country itself has to increase by significant amounts.
One could argue that a sustainable exonomical footprint for western Europe and the USA is wishable (Co2 emissions, resources and technological saturation being the main issues here) while the developed world catches up in terms of economical wealth per person (aka GDP).
Economies are built one job at a time and developed countries have been ignoring this for 20 years at their peril. As long as corporations in developed countries are free to source their labor in cheap, developing countries, wages and employment will stagnate or decline along with the living standard. We need to fundamentally re-visit globalization. The developed countries could trade amongst themselves until the living standards of developing countries rise sufficiently to avoid gutting their middle classes. The gigantic trade deficit developed countries have forces them to borrow from these developing countries, which was a major cause of the crisis in 2008. Governments are now trying to carry the load while consumers de-leverage (save to pay down debt). This also is unsustainable.
Yes well if we permit the corporations to take advantage of global imbalances it's our own foolishness and our own fault. As great of a leader as Clinton was I never agreed on any need for globalization, it's only destroying the country. It does you no good to save 50 cents on a lamp shade at Walmart if it costs you your job.
I've got a better idea. Export the West's labor unions to China. See how fast the jobs come back.
Yea, but for that we need money and we can't lend money with normal interest rates. How do you suppose we invest into the economy when there is no cheap money in sight?
Money for nuthin.... and your chicks for free.
Someone oughta write a song.
A majority of Mr. Zakaria's articles SMACK OF TURN-COAT JOURNALISM....and this one is no different given that Mr. Zakaria has developed this UNCANNY HABIT of swaying which ever way the wind blows to establish his credentials as an authority! Not long ago Mr. Zakaria was lifting sky high the German economic juggernaut praising everything from export orientation, pride in Made in Germany symbol, and MOST IMPORTANTLY Germany’s track record of importing hundreds of thousands of immigrant workers to fill the labor demand (mainly from Muslim Turkey), even as America and & much of Europe were sliding into a recession. We saw Mr. Zakaria asking America to emulate the very same model, and now he suggests everything is going wrong there.
He also has this uncanny ability to IMPLANT certain thoughts in readers minds even if her never directly talks about those issues ONLY to come back with a full blooded report on that later. One of his favorites (& in line with his GLOBAL AGENDA) is the issue of MUSLIM MIGRATION INTO EUROPE & eventually AMERICA.
Part 2:
He mentions that Europe is facing a demographic threat, which is absolutely true, but the RECIPE for that is NOT IMPORTING HORDES of WELFARE DEPENDENT, UNADAPTABLE Muslim migrants or letting in 10's of thousands of ASYLUM SEEKERS gate-crashing into Europe. These new migrants whose population is growing at 10 TIMES THE NATIONAL AVG, even as the local WHITE POPULATION IS ACTUALLY DECREASING, is ripping apart Europe’s delicate social balance even as they are A HUGE DRAG ON EUROPE’S DWINDLING RESOURCES.
Even as we can't blame these new unadaptable immigrants for all of Europe's current economic woes, what is SURELY & IRREVERISBLY happening, as Mark Steyn and others have predicted, is a EUROPE IMPLODING FROM WITHIN by destroying FOREVER EUROPE's ABILITY to handle such crisis in the future.
Totally agree with you. Read my post down below too.
Our poor Greece is buying 4 new French made frigates for the navy, over 400 million dollars a piece, and 400 M1 Abrams tanks from USA. Confusing – ain´t it?
The real problem with Europe is that is democracy. No-one can enact tough choices because everyone has to have a fair say. Don't mind if you have capable people at the top. Most politicians are useless – just there to please the voter, not take long term strategic decisions and follow them through.
So if I understand your post, what we all need is a good dictator.
The most efficient form of government is a truly benevolent dictatorship. The problem is that there is only one person that I would trust to be the dictator, and honestly, i really dont want the responsibility !
Mr. Zakaria your idea of Greece growing its way out of it's debt problem sounds good but here's why it won't work: The public and private debt of Greece is currently about 250 percent of the Greek GDP. Additionally, the Greek Government is currently spending about 15 percent of it's GDP just to pay the interest on the debt that they owe. There's almost no way the Greek government could grow their economy large enough or fast enough to meet such an enormous debt obligation. Stylistically, you are a wonderful essayist and writer Mr. Zakaria, but you are a terrible ( and in some cases deliberately dishonest) researcher. Your "insights" are typically shallow and in some cases misleading. Once again you have absolutely no idea what you are writing about.
You are absolutely right on Mr.Zakaria.
He seems to be focused more on the numbers game, to keep churning in as many articles as possible on everything under the sun just to stay in the limelight.
While in today's digital age most data is available to anyone, it does take a bit of effort and understanding to logically put them together to present a sound analysis. What Mr. Zakaria excels in is making desparate statements, often times having no semblence to each other, or as you said very rightly, arranged to portray his pre-determined thinking by basically cherry picking facts.
While Mr. Zakaria's writings seems to appeal to a lot of people seeking rudimentary knowledge of events, very rarely does he portray any level of depth/authority to benefit knowledgeable people.
Also check out my resp. above.
I believe Europe's economy is tied to US economy. If Europe helps tame US dept problems. Europe dept problems and economy will follow.
Capital idea! Tax the Europeans and use the money to bail out California. What the heck. They still owe us for World War II.
This man is dangerous. He is commited to make the West just like India. His solution always focus on the "generous" benefits of middle class. He forgets that Germany is in much better shape than US which offers few benefits. And he forgets that for most of the 20th century, China and India weren't part of the global economic map. Free trade is good as long as you have a comparative advantage. When people like him try to put Western workers against impoverished ones in Asia, free trade is a disaster. The myth that we live in a post industrial world can't cover the truth. Innovation is good but employees relative few bright people. The jobs actually come through the application of innovation and IT in the industry. This is where people can find jobs. The southern Europe doesn't need to follow his "brilliant" advice. They shouldn't focus on labor cost making their countries little Indias to attract capital. They should follow instead the German example , strengthen their industry and increase output instead. Germans have the strongest Unions in the world based on the German concept of co-determination. The Union leades in corporations have almost half of the seats in corporate boards of directors involved in all company decisions-from employee benefits to CEO compensation. This is why Germany keeps jobs for her citizens, has a strong industrial sector, and the salary gap between workers and CEOs is much more narrow compared to US. But Zakaria will never talk about this aspect of the German economic model. It doesn't fit his agenda!
Advanced economies are currently being crushed by debt.
There is a failure of vision when it comes to addressing this issue
and all the current wailing and gnashing of teeth will not solve this fundamental
problem. Only a new vision and economic course for humanity will save capitalism
and its resulting freedoms. In reality, I believe this debt can no longer be addressed short of bankruptcy, debt forgiveness or a revolutionary funding mechanism on an international scale. This is not as impossible as it sounds. The amounts currently owed are simply too massive. Societal breakdown is already starting to occur as a result of current insufficient action. We are already witnessing the beginning of these upheavals here and abroad. Far left and far right swings can result in larger catastrophe as history has painfully shown.
An actual solution for example would be the formation of a world body to create a new and totally separate international reserve currency that would be financed
with the issue of 50 to 200 year bonds and large enough amounts to issue debt forgiveness at least in the form of extremely long term loans on massive portions of member countries current debt. The problem is not pushing money owed on to future generations but creating a vehicle to push it far enough and in large enough amounts to actually carry the desirable parts of capitalism to highly productive outcomes. These funds would be issued in increments to each country as realistic austerity measures were implemented and verified, but at a pace that would not cause the catastrophic failures that we are all currently headed for. This would also allow infrastructure to grow and improve, valued social programs to continue and hope for future generations now in jeopardy. Perhaps infrastructure and medical system support funded by this reserve currency is possible as well and let out in amounts as verifiable progress was being made. There are a number of ways to get this currency funded but this would be much more involved than could be discussed here and is a separate albeit critical component of this concept.) The challenge beyond the omnipresent naysayers of course is to use our creativity to take the mess we have and design a way out of it. This is not impossible to do but the conversation needs to get started. I hear no voices discussing methods of true advancement in world economic solutions. For example, why can the International reserve currency mentioned above not exist with the current one we now use but be separate and controlled by a third body not private or public but a universal and neutral board to address this massive problem alone? There is an obvious need to not rock the existing apple cart too harshly but yet provide a solution that will not let capitalism fail. Democracy and free markets are the best hope man has but they are prone to abuse from time to time. Freedoms largest requirement is personal and collective responsibility that can fail at times as it has recently. The world needs a larger vision mechanism to reset problems we now have, may yet face and that provide productive citizens an opportunity and path to the future.
Just what we need, another world body - as feckless as the UN?
is it because of you and your natzi workings that my postings keep getting obstructed and my file on the internet got sabotaged in record keeping so that after you extorted education on various study and writing you could show up as the main smart guy instead of me being where i belong and earned and have rights to contantly in addition ot huge payment for everything used. and abuses that went with it. is it you trying to move into the main commentator analyst journalist position? why do i hate so much.and who are you exactly where were you living these past 30 years or more each time?
RUSH SAVE GLOBAL ECONOMIC
M.s.mohamed ansari
All press and media Arabs leader and G20 leader under control by A TO Z + 8
QUEEN + 8
Royal wedding cost. 10 generation total $ 57 trillion
Each every politician rolling 8 years only
But queen family enjoying 10 generation
GLOBAL ECONOMIC FALL REASON WAR. Improve economy Only peace and prayer
I am also happy kill osma bin laden
Turing point of global economy. Islam not allowed Terries Terries people not for Muslim
1. Please avoid war. Day by day war cost increase $ 3.5 trillion
2. Global economy in crisis
3. International job less
4. Global financial crisis financial crisis for every manufacture
5. Every Day OPEC Oil Price Increase
6. World poverty problem
7. Each every single man effected
8. Ignore future death million of already death
9. Million of people wounded
10. Global environment climate will be change this will lead global agriculture problem
JUSTICE IS IN PERIL. SAVIOUR OF INTERNATIONAL JUSTICE ALONE CAN PROTECT HUMANITY
From. Mr.M.S.Mohamed Ansari,
154, Angappa Naicken Street,
Chennai – 600 001.
Tamil Nadu,
INDIA..
To , The Hon’ble Chief Justice,
The Supreme Court,
United States of America,
Washington, D.C.
Fax no: 213.547.8080
Dear Sir,
Sub: Prosecution of previous President Mr. George W.Bush, for violation of International Code of Conduct.
Mr. George W.Bush, the previous President of United States of America, initiated a war against IRAQ, without obtaining the previous sanction of United Nations Organization (UNO) on the pretext of having nuclear weapons, even though the then IRAQ government openly exhibited to the whole world that it has no nuclear weapons.
According to the CNN WORLD report, in the war 6, 75,000 civilians killed, 7500 troops of USA and its allied forces killed 3 25 000 people wounded and $ 3.5 Trillion Dollar spent for the war. This spending of $ 3.5 Trillion Dollar is the main cause of action for the present economic crises prevailing all over the world.
After winning the war against IRAQ, the United States of America’s President Mr. George W.Bush, also admitted the same fact, and he openly stated that the Intelligence agency misguided him.
Later on, even the United Nations Organization (UNO) also certified that the IRAQ has no nuclear weapons.
Then it is the bounded duty of the United States of America and its allied forces to withdraw from IRAQ.
But instead of withdrawing from IRAQ, the United States of America and its allied forces formed a government in IRAQ, under their control and administered the entire IRAQ, and its peoples.
This indicates a clear violation of duty by the President of United States of America Mr. George W.Bush and also a clear case of violation of the International Code of Conduct for UNO members.
Thus Mr. George W.Bush attracts prosecution for the above said offence.
Thus I hereby pray this Hon’ble Court initiate criminal proceedings against Mr. George W. Bush, and give him maximum punishment for
a) initiating the war against the IRAQ
b) killing its innocent IRAQI peoples
c) Killing troops of USA and allied forces and
d) The present economic crises.
e) 3 25 000 people wounded
Dated on this day of 13th day of April, 2009.
Yours truly, (M.S.MOHAMED ANSARI)
COPY TO
The Chief Justice, the International Court of Justice, The Hague, Netherlands.
The Secretary General United Nations Organization
The Chief Justice, the Supreme Court, IRAQ.
His Excellency Mr.Barack Obama, the President of United States of America, White House, Washington D.C.
I'm sure the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court will get right back with you as soon as he logs on and reads your post.
tell your boss mr.zakarias, that we are no longer slaves, and we arent your property. punks like you and your master have ruled this planet for thousands of years, look at the destruction, misery, and death you have brought. shame on you. I am a free man with rights given to me by my creator. you and your masters of death need to go away.
Germany's population is not declining, only the native German population. Mass invasion by illiterate immigrants will ensure that per capita wealth will plummet.
Growth IS the problem.
You can never sustain growth in any system.
It's mathematically impossible.
A growth percentage of 7% per year means a doubling every 10 years.
That means the following:
10 years: x2
20 years: x4
30 years: x8
40 years: x16
50 years: x32
...
100 years: x1024
Do you really think it is realistic to think that any system can sustain growth indefinitely?
If a population would grow 7% per year in just 30 years the population would be 8 times the original.
Same with economic growth. Or growth in average age, or in oil consumption, or any resource for that matter.
Please, educate yourself. Watch these videos. And be prepared to be scared:
Absolutely excellent!
While it's not rocket science, people like Mr. Fareed Zakaria are COVERTLY downplaying such scientific analysis to MASK the exploding growth of Muslim population in Europe (growing at 10 times the national avg.) even as the local WHITE POPULATION is headed in the OPPOSITE DIRECTION!
Unfortunately excessively naive extreme liberals and leftists believe such analysis as ISLAMOPHOBIA!
I would recommend everyone to read MARK STEYN's book "AMERICA ALONE: THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT" which details EUROPE's MUSLIM DEMOGRAPHIC TIME BOMB!
Check this scientific analysis by the New America Foundation on the demographic time bomb in Europe that strikes at the very root of this discussion about growth making it an impossible task to achieve !
Wish I'd read this before posting my own reply. I thought maybe I was losing my mind. I'm a bright guy, but there was no way I could be the only one to see the same thing! Growth is the enemy, it's the carrot dangled by the elite to keep us worked to the bone. They reap the benefits of any growth, while we pay the price if they overreach.
Posted the following incorrectly as a reply to another reader's response:
I only now realized that actually the pic. in the article sums up whatever I have been talking about.... Europe's demographic time bomb due to hordes of WELFARE DEPENDENT MUSLIMS gatecrashing there, and Mr.Zakaria's own bias (& hidden Agenda!) in favor of his co-religionists.
Fareed,
Do you realize the contradictions in the advice you gave on Sunday's show? First you said that the major financial problem in developed countries was a lack of growth; seeming to hint that more people would mean more consumers.
Then in another part of the show you focused on population growth and the problems of feeding the oncoming population of seven billion people.
Isn't the real answer that we have to decrease population growth and provide a workable financial system that doesn't depend on use of finite resources?
How to you realistically decrease population growth? Close the borders? Forced sterilization? Eugenics?
Devalue the Euro.If the weaker nations cannot be given a separate though related currency (say the Greuro)
and devalue that ,then no other solution can be sustainable.Give the Euro (or the Greuro) the same medicine
that weaker economies world wide have taken with the full backing of the Eurozone.
Europe's lack of growth can be tied directly to its unsustainable public sector pension obligations. They've taxed the life out of their private sector. Now they're broke.
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
Are you paying attention, Mr. Obama? (Nope.)
Jobs will return to the West when the Chinese workers wake up and realize they've been duped. The workers' paradise is, as it has always been, a communist facade. If anyone has the right to occupy the realms of those who are in control, it is the Chinese workers who are forced to take jobs hundreds of miles from their homes but are prohibited from moving their families to those towns.
But then again, I guess they all remember Tianamen Square.
Funny how that works.
Sure Fareed,the problem with Europe is the lack of growth. But what will generate growth? Domestic consumption cannot be the answer. Hence growth will come mainly from exports and all countires, except Germany, cannot produce enough exports. Countries in Asia and Africa are relying on local know-how and Europe has very little of raw materials to export. The way North America deals with the prblem is to increase consumption through new immigrants. This cannot work in Europe, where immigration is a bad word. Too much feather-bedding has created a flase lifestyle, hard to sustain. Time for corrective action!
It appears that for globalization to take hold, the US must drastically reduce its standard of living, so wages can be slashed and costs can be lowered to compete with emerging economies. That's good for business, bad for employees. It's not that the US doesn't have smart, skilled workers....it's that they need to be paid way less. Most Americans however, have always earned enough to maintain a relatively high standard of living. Post globalization, most Americans can no longer afford their most essential necessities, and we still can't compete. Considering that our government is beholden to a bunch of TransNational Corporations and the World Bank, I fail to appreciate the benefit for the rest of us. So, how is globalization working for you?
The growth model is out mode for the modern world. The world is finite and bounded and becoming more so each day. The assumptions inherent in the growth model are no longer valid.
The other problem with the growth model is that it encourages planning to a too optimistic scenario. And when expectations are not met, it is disaster. We see it in the US and in the EU.
Folks say, well the EU problem could come to the US. It already has.
Who is the master of sustainable economics. Try Native Americans. In and of nature. Not dominion over nature.
Space ship earth. – Walt Disney.
What did the natives say? oh yeah, " We hold these truths to be self evident'
The wisdom of big oil and big coal is the wisdom of fools. Let us gravitate towards a new way of thinking that acknowledges the reality of our situation.
I want to have a party to celebrate the kinship of the world, with 7 billion of my closest friends.
Growth is nothing if it does not translate into a better standard of living and real benefits for regular people. All the growth and increase in productivity over decades have done nothing for Americans. People work longer hours than ever with hardly any time off. Where a one-earner family used to be fine, now two incomes barely make ends meet. Health care costs have skyrocketed while benefits are cut back. Same with education. In terms of real wealth Americans are going backward.
A real benefit from productivity would be more free time. Time to spend with or visit family and friends, travel, or simply engage in activities outside work. Sadly most Americans have less time outside work than ever before.
"All the growth and increase in productivity over decades have done nothing for Americans." That has to be the most ludicrous, myopic statement I have seen in years.
Every day you and I do things that to our parents and grandparents were genuinely impossible. Americans, including those living below the "poverty line", have unlimited pure, clean water, sanitation, food choices, clothing, heat, cooling, transportation, music and entertainment far, far in excess of that of kings and queens a few hundred years ago. Life today in a modern city is one of comparative bounty incomprehensible twenty years ago.
Our future is even more promising. The personal computer now available to the masses has replaced the Oracle of old as a shortcut to wisdom for the discerning. Man has sequenced not only the human genome, but that of extinct animals. The first human to live to be 1000 years old may already have been born! People are surviving cancers, etc. into old age that would have killed them 20 years ago.
People have conveniently forgotten that for everyone living "above average" in the world there must be those living "below average". Not fair? Life isn't fair. Nobody promised fair. Nobody can deliver "fair".
Imports kill growth, no factories kill growth, investors sitting at the computer looking at their market financial gains kill growth. Wake up, smell the roses, go to work, make something, pay good wages, don't be greedy, regulate excesses, have some empathy, be a good neighbor and lets grow toghether.
Europe's real problem is that euro zone has got a motorcade there instead of a train.
Lack of growth is only a problem because the economy is dependent on growth. Trying to grow the economy is one possible, albeit temporary way to address the problem, since perpetual growth on a finite planet is physically impossible. The alternative is to make the economy independent of growth. http://steadystate.org/
RUSH SAVE GLOBAL ECONOMIC TSUNAMI
M.S.Mohamed Ansari 13 April 2009
All press and Media Arabs leader and G20 leader and CONGRESS under control
By A TO Z + 8. QUEEN + 8
Royal wedding cost. And security force 10 generation total $ 57 trillion
Each every politician rolling 8 years only just like chess board Game
But queen family enjoying 10 generation
GLOBAL ECONOMIC FALL REASON WAR. Improve Economy only 6 points. Peace, prayer
Liberty, Unity, friendly And simplicity
I am also happy to kill osma bin laden
Turing point of global economy. Islam not allowed to be Terrorist and Terrorist people are not a Muslim
1. Please avoid war. Day by Day war cost increase $ 3.5 trillion
2. Global economy and food price every Day increase
3. International job less Y. All businessmen effected business.
4. Global financial crisis every CNC manufacture. New technology energy product Effected FDI investors.
5. Every Day OPEC Oil Price Increase
6. World poverty problem
7. Each every single man Effected
8. Ignore future Death million of already Death
9. Million of People Wounded
10. Global environment climate will be change this will lead Global Agriculture problem
JUSTICE IS IN PERIL. SAVIOUR OF INTERNATIONAL JUSTICE ALONE CAN PROTECT HUMANITY
From. Mr.M.S.Mohamed Ansari,
154, Angappa Naicken Street,
Chennai – 600 001.
Tamil Nadu,
INDIA..
To , The Hon’ble Chief Justice,
The Supreme Court,
United States of America,
Washington, D.C.
Fax no: 213.547.8080
Dear Sir,
Sub: Prosecution of previous President Mr. George W.Bush, for violation of International Code of Conduct.
Mr. George W.Bush, the previous President of United States of America, initiated a war against IRAQ, without obtaining the previous sanction of United Nations Organization (UNO) on the pretext of having nuclear weapons, even though the then IRAQ government openly exhibited to the whole world that it has no nuclear weapons.
According to the CNN WORLD report, in the war 6, 75,000 civilians killed, 7500 troops of USA and its allied forces killed 3 25 000 people wounded and $ 3.5 Trillion Dollar spent for the war. This spending of $ 3.5 Trillion Dollar is the main cause of action for the present economic crises prevailing all over the world.
After winning the war against IRAQ, the United States of America’s President Mr. George W.Bush, also admitted the same fact, and he openly stated that the Intelligence agency misguided him.
Later on, even the United Nations Organization (UNO) also certified that the IRAQ has no nuclear weapons.
Then it is the bounded duty of the United States of America and its allied forces to withdraw from IRAQ.
But instead of withdrawing from IRAQ, the United States of America and its allied forces formed a government in IRAQ, under their control and administered the entire IRAQ, and its peoples.
This indicates a clear violation of duty by the President of United States of America Mr. George W.Bush and also a clear case of violation of the International Code of Conduct for UNO members.
Thus Mr. George W.Bush attracts prosecution for the above said offence.
Thus I hereby pray this Hon’ble Court initiate criminal proceedings against Mr. George W. Bush, and give him maximum punishment for
a) initiating the war against the IRAQ
b) killing its innocent IRAQI peoples
c) Killing troops of USA and allied forces and
d) The present economic crises.
e) 3 25 000 civilian and coalition 39 000 wounded
Dated on this day of 13th day of April, 2009.
Yours truly, (M.S.MOHAMED ANSARI)
COPY TO
The Chief Justice, the International Court of Justice, The Hague, Netherlands.
The Secretary General United Nations Organization
The Chief Justice, the Supreme Court, IRAQ.
His Excellency Mr.Barack Obama, the President of United States of America, White House, Washington D.C.
You are a nut.
A warning to America to get it's act together. Listening Congress? It's time to make Corporations pay a flat 27% tax with NO tax loopholes or any tax breaks for any company for any reason. This will raise taxes immediately by more than $250 billion a year and make a sizeable dent in the deficits.
When did economic "growth" become the be-all, end-all of human existence? Can we not live meaningful, purposeful lives without someone injecting capital or pocketing dividends? Did it ever occur to anyone that eternal growth is impossible? No country/business/person/etc can always grow more all the time in a world of finite resources.
You are such a wise man ZAK. Growth will only end up destroying the earth. A nice humble 1% growth or a nice zero growth if people are employed will keep the earth revolving for all; provided profits are shared. You feel into this mental thinking that growth is a good thing. The oceans are fished out, the land is being destroyed for apartment complexes. What the hell happened to common sense thinking? Name a Scientist that thinks that continued economic growth will result in better living here on earth? Answer: 0
Europe's problem s the same problem as the US. They allowed all of their global corporations to send their manufacturing to China.
Now, the entire free world, has SOLD OUT, to China.
This idea that growth will continue indefinitely is a cancer to our society. We spend and plan like growth can continue forever and end up with debts missed expectations and thousands of students with huge loans and no jobs. It is time we get realistic and realize that growth can happen sometimes but is not the norm. Otherwise we will run our society into total destruction. This idea of constant growth fueled the Chinese imports, housing bubble, and medical care debacle. It will soon lead to unchecked infaltion because we want so badly to get back to where we were in the bubble that we will print money feverishly. Come on people, it is time fro austerity and real expectations.
IF you spend more than you produce............................................YOU WILL EVENTUALLY GO BROKE!!!!
From what I've read elsewhere it's not just that Greece needs growth to cover its obligations; it's that it needs to start collecting taxes. Inforcement of income tax collection is effectively zero and Greeks treat tax evasion as a national pastime. Won't cover the whole need, but it's certainly a start.
Sounds to me like Fareed is decrying government controlled economies. How very Conservative of a self proclaimed Liberal!
The Euro's undoing is because the countries have not lived up to the spending/ borrowing limits that were established. There was no punishment when they did not meet the requirements.
The spent and spent and spent and now they are running out of people to bail them out.
Isnt it just great watching to world come apart? I think ill just shut everthing off....
Face it folks, the real problem here is socialism. . . they give away the store. Someone has to pay for all this and now the bill is due. . . . too bad the left here wants to do the same thing. . . .
you can read Malthus - that will explain the problem. We have too-may head-count - guess that 1-2 billion people is a
sustainable figure.
but this topic is taboo because:
- against religious principles (whatever that might be ???) – the fact is that Christianity and Islam are both agains, for the Hinduist – not sure , but the fact is that they grow the fastest anyway.
- political correctness B.S
the way to solve it is :
1) the nature will solve it by-itself (wars, diseases, hunger, thirst , ... ).
2) dictatorships
Because of political correctness - option 2) is not "verbally" acceptable (which does not mean it is not what is going to happen !). Option 1) is automatic - and works by-itself.
Hey Malthus,
I suggest you check out the website for VHEMT. This is the moral answer to decreasing our population.
Of course they are going to have low growth. Europeans (and Americans, Canadians, etc) have not been having enough kids to replace deaths. And there has not been enough immigration to make up the deficit. So of course there will be low growth. DUH!.
We need to concentrate in growth in GDP per person, not total GDP or GNP. With a declining native population, low growth is the future. Get used to it.
Hey Fareed,
You must be a Journalism major because "lack of growth" is a result, not a cause. Europe's problem is the lack of growth caused by their "Socialist Welfare State" economy.
Europe's real problem is that it's full of Europeans. They are incapable of working together toward a common goal. Centuries of inbreeding has turned them into a continent of shiftless backstabbers.
wake up america!!!! results of socialism!!!
Exactly and our president is running for president with the slogan I WANT US TO BE GREECE.....
The elephant in the room is indeed 'Growth', but it is not the panacea the author envisions either. A solution based on what is essentially 'infinite growth' can no longer work on a finite planet. We are not just approaching peak oil, but also peak population, peak everything, and if we do not reverse this trend, the planet that sustains us will eventually extinguish us one way or another. The question should be how do reinvent the monetary system so that it functions in a negative growth direction, one that allows us to preserve what is left of the plant's natural resources, vis a vie, that future generations, assuming they exist in three hundred years, may be celebrating us for NOT consuming every last drop of oil. There is lot to consider and the old assumptions no longer work is perhaps a key point of OWS. The time is now to reinvent what it means to be human and how we related to each other an planet we live in.
europes real problem?
muslims
The birth rate is a real long term obstacle to growth there are no babies being born.Germans,Spanish,Italians will not even be around in a couple of decades if this low birth rate trend continues.We need at a minimum 2.0 child per woman just to naturally replace the people already present.And migration for Europe has turned into a huge disaster of epic proportions.Europe's problem is that it only attracts low educated Muslims or Africans as migrants.Otherwise migration could help but we know that the migration of the past few decades has actually been a drag on European countries costing more then migrants put back into the system.And Europe is unlkely to attract other migrants.So Europeans will start to have babies again.We can solve everything else but not if we simply go extinct.
Growth cannot happen unless capital is available. Capital cannot be available as long as enormous debts are in play. Solve the debt problem and provide capital formation and we will see growth. Only thing that can do this is global debt realignment. http://www.debtrealignment.com
Time to start the cloning program
Ya know, u ppl can be down on Obama allday but in the end, he tried his best and this economy just isnt fixable you people need to quit demanding things from the guy he tridd his best OK!
Maybe if Germany would share some of the manufacturing output around the EU. But unfortunately, an unhealthy Germany is a dangerous Germany.....so we will always let them be wealthiest kid on the block.
In life there is birth, growth and death. In civilizations there is birth, growth and collapse. Welcome to the collapse.
No offense, Fareed. But Europe's real problem is Israel. Hate to break it to you.
The problem with Europe is like the elephant in the room.
Governmental ineffectiveness and bureaucracy.
The procrastination demonstrated by the ludicrous handling of the bankers (debt) crisis should make Europeans wonder if they are better off without any government than those they elect into office.
Why can't industry, finance, life sciences and commerce deal directly with strongly organized labour?
Cut out these bungling middle men and their "civil service" who merely tax those contributing to real GDP, while failing to protect private pensions and accrued welfare rights. They debate and pass bills which secure their own jobs with index linked pensions with an array of (tax exempt) perks and benefits?
As Oliver Cromwell famously said:
"YOU HAVE BEEN SAT TO LONG HERE FOR ANY GOOD YOU HAVE BEEN DOING. DEPART, I SAY, AND LET US HAVE DONE WITH YOU. IN THE NAME OF GOD, GO!."
Addressing the Rump Parliament. April 1653.
So what are you saying Mr. Zakaria? If Europe's problems are 1/3rd demographic and 1/3rd growth – I know you and many like you would suggest Europe should open its doors to a floodgate of useless, poor, lazy, unskilled Africans and Middle-easterners (and Turks). There are already way too many such people on state welfare schemes. The problem of debt is not limited to regions and countries with poor demographics. The real tsunami will soon come from the US – a country with favorable demographics and growth (as soon as the politics gets sorted out). That's one of the problems of European countries – politicians have over-promised and over-delivered on all kinds of benefits. This crisis is the only way for some countries to 'wake up' and radically restructure their social bargains, work cultures and economies. The European project is a fantastic success already but they did miscalculate the currency union – at least they are trying to fix it. it's not easy to calibrate a dozen soverign countries. In America, we can't even get two parties in ONE country to agree on anything. Yes, Europe does need to grow – the central and eastern countries can be that engine. The European project can only get stronger and better – and as standards of living rise in growth markets, the per capita wealth indicators for Europe will get better. Assuming the PIIGS can deliver on their austerity promises, I predict Europe will emerge a stronger, more unified, and more financially secure union in three years. I am not saying the debt will vanish but three years is the inflection point at which the achievements will start paying dividends – and the Europeans must be careful not to allow each other to slide into complacency. Keep demography out of this – it suggests a rationale for a pyramid scheme – like the one we have in the US.
Yes lack of growth is a big problem But the question is WHY aren't the economies growing. And he mentions some items related to slow growth such as an aging population, stagnent or declining population growth, wage rates versys globalization, and lack of competiveness. But he fails to point to one of the biggest drains on every country. And that is the massive social progams and the taxes and fees taken from the populace to pour into those programs. Ever dollar they take out of the hands of wage earners to support health care and pensions and a whole slew of other items is a dollar never spent on consumer goods. And that lack of consumer spending destroys growth prospects. Look at the US where 2/3 of the economy comes from consumer spending. And compare that to Greece where, due to all the programs and overly generous benefits, 2/3 of the economy is driven by Government spending. THAT is the biggest issue in Europe. Socialist agendas and programs have failed, and no one wants to admit it. But until they do, the problems will simply continue to pile up and grow year by year until every single country on the continent fails. And as a warning for the US, remember Obama has based his policies on what Europe has done. And you can see how well Europe is working out. Think it through, and you will have to realized if you have even a couple working brain cells that Obama's programs are doomed to the same long term failure as in Europe.
This argument is a non-starter because the "socialist" policies have been in place for most of the 20th century, and continue to work well in most of Europe. And if socialism is to blame, why did Vietnam and China grow at 6+ and 10+% last year, respectively? Last time I checked, these were purely socialists countries, not social democracies as in most of Europe. I could just as well blame democracy for Europe's issues.
It seems to me that most of the comments on this article have one thing in common: "Population Growth". The readers think that population growth is the major (or only) issue for all this economic crisis.
While it maybe considered an issue to some extent, the major PROBLEM in European Union and USA is "FREE Social Security/Government benefits".. Governments spend a MAJOR amount from their budget on unemployment benefits, healthcare, social benefits (which goes to bums). Even if the govt. doesn't have enough money to provide these benefits,it take LOAN from other countries and increase their Debt. Hence, the DEBT crisis in EU and USA.
A solution to the debt problem is to reduce all the SOCIAL BENEFITS and increase TAX on rich people. Peace.
Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. –Edward Abbey
Especially when that growth is in the public sector.
Talk about a cancer.....
Is this any analysis? That Eu needs growth? Is there any place, which in trouble could NOT benefit from growth? What an idiotic comment?! The question is, how will the growth come about, if there are structural obstacles in EU (there are), and how to fix them; instead, Fareed thinks his great diagnosis is, they need growth. Brilliant. So, they got into this mess because they were not growing, presumably?! If so, any solutions or insights on how they can grow?
People are forgetting something, economic growth actually leads to population growth as well as the other way around. But It is not necessary for one to precede the other. Currently population growth in the western world is falling as a result of the recent economic problems.
How do you grow an economy when all the taxes go to the public sector union juggernauts? The public sector does NOT create wealth. In fact, it's a drag on the economy because it sucks money away from the private sector.
Are you paying attention, America?
brainwashed.
I feel that if the lowly republicans get the chance to take over, they will not lead us forward and clear of any threat from this effecting Europe.
An excellent article. Is there no way that a repeat of the saving grace that partially rescued the UK from economic calamity in the 70's could help bootstrap a Eurozone recovery? I speak of the investments that oil-rich countries made in the UK, albeit, by buying assets previously thought to be too 'English' to share with the Arabs. I forsee a major release of assets and treasures previously 'untouchable'.
SNOOORRREEE Zaharia. The real problem is debt currency. Banking system puts all countries into massive debt. That's why EVERYONE is in debt. Where is all the money? Google "usury."
The problem is being looked at from the surface. In terms Of dynamics it fails. The new world order topologically was necessary, since the givens of the way things work were misunderstood and misapplied. They became static, worn out theories. In the new dynamic, has to be tried. Cataclysmic ones at that. Immigration, system models based on linear predictions, growth critiques, and wealth distribution assessments all fail in a new dynamic. The new dynamic is the closing of the perimeters, (they will work themselves out) since variables such as wars and their effects, major ecological disasters, and total social breakdowns have more or less been ruled out. The key to the new dynamics is certainly individual, grass roots, regional assessment-new technological transformational developments- such as replacing old worn out views of home construction. The suggestion to wipe out debt is completely irrational, the re-introduction of value transformation- especially construction of affordable housing and the production of cheaper food- will ensure that our system of laissez faire can survive. It is at a breaking point, and projecting problems to Europe is not the answer, because for 50 years Europe has looked to us for answers. Modular construction with subsidies and farm aid should complement corporate bail out, and cheaper home affordability should not pose a problem to traditional construction and real estate commerce. Wages are too high in the west? Let them float internationally, but create vast projects in conjunction with international organizations of development to sell vastly cheaper. If not, the deflation cycle may be difficult to stop even with other sets of trillion dollar bail out, and consequent inflationary pressures may not bring these deflationary pressures to ease.
Eventually, we will run out of resources. Most people in this country already have more junk than they know what to do with. Storage units are one of the biggest growth industries recently. I don't think that makes anyone better off. Without growth of the economy, the current system will collapse. Decaying money is the only solution that I am aware of.
http://www.realitysandwich.com/sacred_economics_ch_6_usury
If the austerity measures implemented on Greece don't work.. not only Europe will be in trouble the problem will trickle down to US and directly affect the financial matters in the US.
"If only we could GROW the economy,..." Doesn't anybody at all in the media recognize this for the misdirection it is? Spend to match the economy you have, rather than bouncing checks off of MY as-of-yet unearned wages!
Europe's problem and one increasingly common in the U.S., boils down to too many people taking too much out of the pockets of workers. Without free monet for virtually anyone that applies for it, people would need to WORK. Look up ther definition of the word, Maybe people would need to wash dishes or work in the farm fields, but if it came down to starving or working, they would work. Our first waves of immigrants, without the so called 'safety nets' that exist today, were OK with this reality and they worked hard and built America.
I'm not quite sure why Zakaria thinks 1.5% growth is not adequate with a declining population. If, for instance the population is declining at a 1% rate, then that is approximately a 2.5% growth rate per person, not so bad. A 28% increase every ten years. It's not dramatic but it's not a decline.
Re: Occupado commentator – on sunday the 6th of november i was downtown to shop a bit and the army group was marching parado style it looked like not parade/u.s./canadian flags. they looked cute though.there were girls and guys and younger and older and i don't know if there were any a.c./d.c.'s in the troop group but it looked kind of cute.
Europe's problem = Socialism.
THEY FINALLY RAN OUT OF OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY – warning sign for the US.
It's astounding that all of this grief is because several countries in a group owe monopoly money to each other. That are loans? Money created out of nothing and brought into being as per our current system. People suffer and die because of this system that doesn't even factor natural /actual resources into it's equations. Unreal.
Zakaria is a denier. Europe's problem is not debt. That's the symptom. Their problem is that they think government is the solution to all that ails people. As Margaret Thatcher said, the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money. That time has come for Europe and the US isn't far behind.
Humanity is damned if they do and damned if they don't. If we don't control population the world's environment will just continually degrade and food supplies will never adequately support the human race. Capitalism seems to require increased population in order to have increased productivity and GNP. How the hell do we do both?
Somehow we have to figure out how to live on this planet with continued diminishing resources. How do we do that and continue to feed the capitalist machine? I've always thought that zero population growth was the key to not trashing the earth. NOW it seems that our economies can't survive a plateau in population, much less a decline.
How do these concepts get reconciled?
They can't after a certain point. The only way is to re-evaluate capitalism, economics, finance, and other aspects of this thing called money.
Aren't we a little tired of Fareed's banter? This guy has an angry hidden agenda that shines through in every story he covers.
if you don't care for his 'banter' then why the hell are you watching much less reading it? Go back to Fox News.
Is Democracy just a better way of hiding corruption? This money problem is getting to be quite disgusting. Are there no boundaries to our greed? Millions died in WWI and WWII so that we have the freedom to steal from each other? Our leadership today is no better than the inbread monarchies that ruled 100 years ago. Absolutely DISGUSTING . . . and the muslims are at the gates!
Read Sharang below, which I am replying to,
Sharang says that the huge debt is from Social Programs and lack of Taxes on the rich. Though cutting Social programs and putting more Taxes on the rich, would solve the immediate problems, long term we are still looking at more unemployment, less wealth and shortages of resources. Population growth touches every part of what we know as the good life.
More Food – requires more fertilizer, more land tilled, more distribution, more water, each is based on more energy. Not only will we need new sources of energy to replace the old, but we will need more for the population growth.
More People and Housing – requires more land, more waste disposal, more water, more energy for; lighting, heating / cooling and moving products and people. These people will also want to consume more white goods, appliances along with everything else.
Yes we can produce more food but energy and water will be the real problems.
As for the unemployed, we like the cheap Mexican labor, but we hate to think that they consume any public / social services. In China, they made the office workers go to the fields to help pick, I would love to see that happen in the USA, even just for a day. Maybe then, the true cost of food would be realized. The fact is, a vibrant economy needs an excess of workers (unemployed) and they have to be sustained in some manner.
On the farm, I could give jobs to 50 people, as long as they didn't need to make a living wage. People complain each time the price of food goes up, so where is the extra money to come from to pay these farm laborers a livable wage? Instead we become more efficient and hire fewer people, the trend of all manufacturing.
Lastly, why has the US and EU economies done so well in the past? A quick look around will tell you that it is all based on cheap energy.... and growing populations wanting our products. As they start to make their own products, we will find it harder and harder to compete for the energy, water, materials and labor force. Why are we in debt now, we lived the good life on credit. The banks made it available and we were suckered into thinking we could live the good life and pay for it later. It is a collective society problem, not just the banks. Education of the masses will be most important to solve the issues. Without that, we will have to rely on strong rulers to tell us what to do, like a bunch of sheep.
*****************************
"Sharang
Dr. jmw: It seems to me that most of the comments on this article have one thing in common: "Population Growth". The readers think that population growth is the major (or only) issue for all this economic crisis.
While it maybe considered an issue to some extent, the major PROBLEM in European Union and USA is "FREE Social Security/Government benefits".. Governments spend a MAJOR amount from their budget on unemployment benefits, healthcare, social benefits (which goes to bums). Even if the govt. doesn't have enough money to provide these benefits,it take LOAN from other countries and increase their Debt. Hence, the DEBT crisis in EU and USA.
A solution to the debt problem is to reduce all the SOCIAL BENEFITS and increase TAX on rich people. Peace."
With the passing of each day we are adding to the coplexity of what we do, how we live. Technological advances do make life more "cool" to live, but eventually less affordable. It will be an unpopular idea to suggest looking critically at how we do things and ask ourselves whether we can live on less. That will definitely be painful, but there will be more left behind for the generations to come.
Fareed, I love ya' but this article says absolutely nothing.
The existing economic, business and tax policies of Europe and north america is heavily depends upon the continuous growth, that is not sustainable on the long run. Countries must protect their economies from outside influence and forget about the globalization.Globalization is nothing more than socialism developed by the greedy big business, the losers are the middle class of the developed wold.
Start producing cars that run on olive oil. Problem solved.
Good-bye Martinis.
Shrink the World population. Tax those who have more than 1 kid.
I don't know that "growth" per se is needed. I don't think Switzerland has growth and it is very healthy. Europe needs financial incentive and reward. It has ground to a halt because it is crippled by socialism and perceived "give aways". I spent part of the summer and everyone I met raved about "free medical care". I would stop them and ask, "Nothing is free. Who pays for this?" They are so far removed from reality that they don't realize they themselves pay for it in a reduced standard of living. Government is huge in each country. Taxes are beyond imagination (Just look at gasoline at $10-12 per gallon). Folks....this is not a mystery. It is predictable human behavior. The USA under the current government is desperate to push us into a similar system. I looked at buying a house in the UK last year and decided against it because of the regulations required just to put a new bathroom in a home. It is NUTS! No wonder it's grinding to a halt. It needs to do so.
It's not technology or demography. It's all globalization. Big business sold this to Western countries through their advertizing and Congressional lackies. Actually, a slow, measured transition to globablization is probably a good idea. But we rushed headlong, and while we enjoyed the cheap products from countries whose workers earn unacceptably low wages by Western standards, we were losing our manufacturing base–our ability to physically produce things. We kidded ourselves that we were transitioning to an informational society as the third world countries were taking up the manufacturing mantel. Yeah, and now the main paper we are pushing are IOUs to the countries doing the manufacturing.
The answer to the problem is to develop a manufacturing model to compete with China. China has two great advantages - a massive peasant population willing to work for very low wages, and an authoritarian regime that can pave the way for its businesses (e.g., relocating a neighborhood to allow for a new business building). China is also smart politically by spending massive amounts on its infrastructure. The low wage workers get to enjoy new roads and parks and facilities. Our low wage workers get nothing but their wages, because the anti-government, "free market" fallacy we have bought into in America discourages infrastructure spending.
So to compete with China we either have to impose tarriffs or find low wage workers, and we have to get smart about investing in America. But one way or another we must buy products from ourselves again so the profits stay here rather than move to China. Tarriffs come with a new set of problems, and American workers won't work for China wages because they can vote for minimum wage limits. So the ultimate solution may be to import low wage workers. We do this in a backhanded way with our illegal Mexican immigrants, but we are stifled from making it profitable by our politics. It would probably be possible to create a win-win solution for Americans and foreign born workers, but we have to first properly identify our problem. Politically, I'm not sure we can do that.
The only other solution is to invent something so cool that everyone in the world wants it. Like a new energy source. Unfortunately, our oil companies own a majority share of Congress and are stopping all movement on that front.
Cold hard facts. Welcome to Pottersville, USA. Or maybe that's Pottersville, Anywhere but China.
It's people in poor underdeveloped countries and ghettos that seem to reproduce more. Conversely, populations among educated, affluent people are not as prolific because most of them wait until they can afford to get married and start families. In countries where there is ample access to higher education, the people themselves are better equipped to manage their resources more responsibly. They are also more careful when it comes to planning life choices such as marriage, children etc. Perhaps the key to human survival is to have less ignorant people in the world. Universal access to excellent education should be the hallmark of every responsible government. There are no stupid people in this world, only uneducated ones.
The word 'growth" implies an outcome of certain activities and personal behaviors. Outcome are not the root problems. So this article basically says nothing. Why not look at countries that has decent growth and not in a pile of debt. See how the people's mindsets and behaviors (work ethics) are different and how the government's policies are different. If we look at things that way, it's not hard to see why certain countries are doing well why others are at the brink of bankruptcy. For example, most Asians are personal achievement driven. Personal responsibilities are the rule, government aids or inteference are the exceptions, not the rule. Without honestly examining themselves on a personal level, there is no solution in Europe.
The Germans are the only Europeans who work hard. The Italians and Greeks are lazy. Combining the two types of peoples and cultures was a mistake. After living in Europe for 13 years and traveling extensively, I can say with assurance that: THE GREEKS AND ITALIANS WILL NEVER, NEVER, NEVER WORK AS HARD AS THE GERMANS. It's simply not in their DNA.
The answer is for people to require less "things", but of a much better quality, requiring more man hours to design, engineer, produce, at higher wages, costing more, but lasting longer. That philosophy coupled with massive birth control steps aimed at eventually reducing the world count by 50%, and upgraded agricultural practices worldwide, will save the planet for those three and a half billion people who will live splendid lives.
Sclerotic? Are you kidding me? Western economies have become sclerotic? Where did you pull that out of?
europes problem? thats easy...islam
Infinate growth never made sense much as growth based on an ever increasing population never made sense (although cities still talk about needing to expand into farm land). Much like turning fields into concrete and polluting air, land and sea made no sense all of these things one day would lead to an end point or even worse a die off point. Oil (and other carbons) has allowed this massive expansion the question is what happens when it goes away.
Listen to these commercials that talk about the massive amounts of natural gas we have more than oil in the middle east. Then think when they say we have enough for 100 years! 100 years isn't that long maybe we should have started planning a long time ago.
With emerging countries ramping up it only means less available resources for those countries that had access for all of those years before
Our economies are biased on consumption. When people get older, they consume less because they have less need to consume. They also produce less because they drop out of the work force when they retire. These are major drivers of decline in economic growth. We need a new economic model that provides for growth but yet is not hampered by constancy. I don't now what that is but an ever expanding global population is not sustainable. Neither is ever expanding consumption. We have a serious problem and our current economic malaise is the result of it.
Ohhh!! Now I see; it's not that they spend too much, they just don't have enough economic growth!! How simple!! Now, go out and apply that yourself. Just spend as much as you like and tell your employer that you need more income growth! Give me a break!!!
When I hear "growth", I cringe. If we were on a space ship with a carrying capacity of 1,000 people travelling on a journey for 1,000 years, what economic principles would we adopt on such a journey? Growth? I don't think so. The problem of the world economy is not the lack of growth, but the inability of the political leaders to come up with and implement viable policies that would maintain a healthy economy in the zero-growth environment. Because what is Earth but a huge space ship with limited resources and limited carrying capacity?
I am afraid Zakaria is stuck in the past with his views that are predicated on the model that concentrates political power and wealth with the few while continuously making the working people sacrifice policitcally and economically to sustain that very unjust system.
Sure Fareed.
People aren't merely "overweight". They're undertall. Oy.
Fareed never hesitates to make a blathering fool out of himself does he?
Yes, good comment. Growth is the key.
did you lift that last and other comments fareed gunman dealer zakaria. one of important history making planning and sacred interpretation crime fighting portrayals
theresa noelle younan ymma-iii i-pic interpole galactica
A lot of their problem is too much islam and its growing.........
Better healthcare – higher taxes – less consumption – more exercise – controlled population – better care of the environment – and, oh yes .... Soilent Green
Problem solved !
Capitalism running wild is not the answer
The Duggars should not be congratulated but taxed at 90% for the use of environmental resources.
Isn't it unrealistic to expect "growth" to happen forever? If you have finite resources that's a ridiculous idea. Part of the reason we're in this mess is because idiots expected the economy to grow without limit; now we're out of new frontiers, we have 7 billion people, and the economy is one big storm of excrement.
Europeans are politically volatile. If these countries use too much "austerity" you will see social upheaval such as happened in the thirties and they will have political extremism on the left and right. This is why their leaders "kick it down the road." Eventually there will be hell to pay in Europe.
Europe has low economic growth b/c it has followed policies advocated by big-government elitists like Zakaria.
What a herd of goofballs - ALL of you ! ! !
Prosperity follows PRODUCTIVITY ! ! !
We have but to dramatically increase human wage-productivity by technical means - and the economic and political problems will soon vanish ! !
This has worked for 250 years (The Industrial Revolutions) - WHY should it not CONTINUE to work ? ? ?
However, It MUST be FORCED now BY THE PEOPLE via government mandate - For there is no quick 90-day profit in it and so BigMoney will NOT touch it ! ! !
The only growth it seems is in taxes, and the more we are taxed the less we care about growth as we know it will cost us more taxes. Governments are running loose around the world and spending like there is no tomorrow and they are right. If they keep taxing us more and spending more the only solution will be world collapse. People and governments need to tone down their spending and look to putting more monies into savings and plans to support themselves. Governments need to reduce their spending and giving everybody everything that they ask for. People now expect others to support them, not at supporting them selves, but that money has to come to the working few. The poor have no money, the rich have too many loop holes, and the middle class end up footing most of the bill. We are heading for a crash that will make the Great Depression look like a Sunday outing.
Fareed-I have much respect for your opinions regarding the economic conditions that plagues us in our global economy. However, I have to say that we cannot sustain any continued growth with our dwindling natural resources. We have a finite amount of coal, oil, space, etc. and with world wide population growth growing at an alarming rate, these vectors have already begun to intersect and will continue to grow in opposite directions. We can't spend our way out of this problem. Yes, we need to better educate our society, but let us not equate education solely on economic performance and growth. We are going to have to get used to the idea of living with less and living simpler lives. Our Amish communities have the right motto: USE IT UP, WEAR IT DOWN; MAKE DO OR DO WITHOUT. Our religion of consumerism has its limits. We cannot continue our geocentric thought processes and expect unbridled expectation and growth, it's just not going to happen. We have reached that saturation point in our history where there are not enough solutions to our exponential growth that started during the industrial revolution. We are in the infant stages of a paradigm shift as we work with what we have been given and we realize that we truly own nothing . . . we have been given a lease on what we have, it can be short term or long term, it's up to us as responsible world citizens to decide what is truly important in our lives.
The Europeans – by which I mean the Germans – are trying to find some solution to this crisis that will not let countries like Greece and Italy off the hook.// Ya see now this is a social problem. More liberals vs zion/capitalist.How do you get a donkey to move is about as complex as how do you get Greece to pay their debt !
They must suffer and when they eat too much pie you cut them off and make them sweat it out. NO more Lobster time for spaM.
RE: "Wake up, people! The uber-rich do not marry the uber-poor. As the wealth concentrates more and more, most of you tunnel-visioned entrepeneur class will become vassals of the kings!
Everyone...needs to become less greedy and learn to live with what they have. "
Some people have corporations. I doubt that you do. Few people run them well. That's because it is difficult and they have to answer to many people. Oversimplifying an issue (calling it tunnel-vision) is the quickest way to not get to the bottom of a problem.
Which kind of growth does this article refer to? More People or More Productivity? A growing population will increase demand but if the supply comes from elsewhere (say China) how does that kind of growth solve low GDP in Greece? Increasing demand for more (imports) resources in a troubled economy would not solve the growing debt crisis either, it would worsen it. If this article is about economic growth, then troubled Eurozone countries need to increase GDP so they can bring down debt...that is what growth looks like. Austerity measures and bailouts reduce debt, but unless there is a way to increase productivity (GDP), the end result will be more debt, more bailout, more austerity etc. etc.
problem is manufacturing-these companies fled western countries that dont treat their people like disposable toilet paper and forces them to pay reasonable wages and not release toxic chemicals into rivers. I have a friend from a small village in China , and three NON-SMOKING members of his family have died of lung cancer-the village is within 10 miles an american manufacturing plant.
the solution is not as difficult: these greedy companies, making record profit, depend on those american and european wages to buy the garbage they produce in China and other countries. STOP BUYING PRODUCTS MADE IN CHINA. Buy american, european made products THIS CHRISTMAS. Stop feeding the greed machine that has killed us. You see how quickly they start making products in our land again if everybody does that. and BTW: instead odf a sweater this year, get somebody a gift card to a local business like massage parlor a beauty salon, a restaurant, whatever. Instead of buying some crappy painting from Walmart find out where the local artists are an buy their painting. They would have us believe we have no power to do anything. I say as consumer, WE HAVE ALL THE POWER. It is us the american consumer that is the holy grail of marketing.
Lack of growth is a symptom, not a cause. The cause is the false sense of growth caused by Keyensian economic policies and fiat currency. When governments create money and provide for the population with it, the people tend to become complacent and they simply stop trying.
Keynsian policies have nothing whatsoever to do with the FACT that we have finite resources and are running out of the most important one – Oil.
Another example of how so many people just don't "get it" and cannot, or will not,more likely, fact the truth of the situation. Until that happens, the train wreck will continue in slow motion.
From last 10 years almost all European countries and US are facing financial crisis.US were on the verge of collapse due to financial crisis. It has already taken 14 trillion dollars Now days 9% US people, 29% Italy people, around 48 % Spain and Greece people are unemployed. In last decade US faced 2 times recession (around 2001 to 2003, 2008 to 2010)I think all capitalist countries has to follow the below points to reduce the unemployment:
1) Education and medical facilities should be free for all citizens. Government should open new schools, engineering and medical colleges.
2) They should reduce the military expenditure by half.
3 ) Government should also take imitative to open public companies to reduce the unemployment. Since in capitalist country all jobs are private jobs and private companies are always thinking about their own profit. They can sack any employee any time.
Yeah yeah, private bad, public good, we tried this, didn't work. But thanks for the advice, comrade Lenin.
The only way is colonization – the natural way for humans. Space colonization doesn't seem to make much sense at this point, but I think colonization of seas and Antarctica is inevitable. Look how little we use out of oceans resources – just oil and fishery... and there is so much more. There is this idea of seasteading – building floating permanent settlements with the use of the existing shipping technology. After colonizing the oceans there will be another direction – deep underground, and after that – when the necessary technology will be at hand – space. Living anywhere besides Earth's land surface will be unnatural for humans, so the overall quality of life will deteriorate, the colonists will be like Eskimo in the Arctic – not flourishing but surviving, but face it – lands are too small for mankind and it has to extend it's environment.
What do you think?
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