Editor's Note: Raoul Heinrichs is Sir Arthur Tange Scholar at the Strategic and Defense Studies Centre, ANU, an editor at the Lowy Institute for International Policy, and Deputy Editor of Pnyx. This is an extended version of an article published by the Lowy Interpreter. This piece is reprinted with the permission of The Diplomat.
By Raoul Heinrichs, The Diplomat
U.S. President Barack Obama’s sheen may have worn off somewhat in the United States, but not in Australia. Yet amid the handshaking and backslapping, the photo opportunities and exultations of shared values, interests and history, it’s easy to overlook the fact that Obama’s trip “down under” is driven by cold strategic logic: to sell Australians on accepting a greater burden on behalf of their alliance with the United States.
That process has begun with a major enhancement of military cooperation between the two countries, to be concentrated in Australia’s North West. The arrangement grants the U.S. military greater access to Australian bases, particularly airfields, as well as providing for more extensive training, ship visits and exercises, and the forward deployment of a small detachment of U.S. Marines. It also covers the prepositioning of materiel – fuel, ammunition and spare parts – creating the foundations of a latent staging point for the U.S. military in the Indian Ocean.
For many Australians, an enhanced U.S. presence in Australia is a beguiling prospect. Not only is it seen as a welcome symbol of Washington’s enduring strength and resolve, but also as a more tangible expression of U.S. strategic commitment.
The reality is somewhat different. In fact, Washington’s sudden interest in Australian real estate says less about its resilience than its relative decline. In particular, the quest for new bases reflects the way in which China’s growing power has already begun hollowing out U.S. military dominance, pushing back the boundaries of U.S. primacy.
North Korea’s Other Weapons Threat
Indeed, while the United States has spent the past decade losing wars and squandering power, China has been studiously undercutting U.S. advantages across virtually every sphere of policy: economic, diplomatic and strategic. No longer the quiescent child it was when the United States took its eye off the ball, China has grown into a boisterous teenager – and has plenty of growing still to do. With the transformation of Asia’s security order well underway, Washington now finds itself trying to reinvigorate its strategic presence in the face of a putative rival over whom its leverage has been greatly diminished.
Still, why the specific interest in Australia? Three reasons predominate.
The first reason is largely technical: over the past two decades, China has accumulated a formidable array of precision guided strike capabilities, namely long-range ballistic and cruise missiles, which can be launched from sea, air and land. These have been woven into an offensive war-fighting doctrine that places an operational premium on their use early and en-masse – and not just against U.S. ships at sea. Since U.S. bases in Japan, Korea and even Guam are increasingly at risk of being saturated by Chinese missiles at the outset of a conflict, they no longer constitute an indefinitely reliable basis from which the United States can project power.
Why Australia Needs Nuclear Subs
The countries of Southeast Asia offer no viable alternative. They also lie within range of Chinese missiles. And though their governments clamor for U.S. support whenever China plays rough, they remain unwilling to be prematurely enlisted in U.S. military plans at the risk of becoming a target or arousing Chinese antipathy. Thus, U.S. interest in Australian real estate reflects a simple desire for a more flexible, dispersed posture. U.S. military planners recognize in an Australian staging point the potential to restore the kind of time and space they’re being deprived of in Northeast Asia, as well as options for an operational sanctuary beyond China’s striking range. But what kind of operations do they have in mind?
As U.S. strategists reckon with the scope of Chinese military progress, they are developing an Indo-Pacific war plan for fighting China. In the Pacific, the U.S. Air Force and Navy are fleshing out the AirSea Battle concept, a war-fighting doctrine aimed at countering China’s area-denial strategy head-on. It’s a problematic concept, as I’ve written elsewhere. Nevertheless, by denying China’s capacity for sea-denial, theUnited States intends to preserve its options for sea-control and power projection in the Western Pacific, reinforcing its credibility and role as the region’s dominant player.
The second, more unspoken aspect of the strategy involves exploiting China’s substantial vulnerabilities in the Indian Ocean. Numerous factors combine to make this possible: China’s geographic dislocation, which make it an external power; its dependence on the Indian Ocean for a great proportion of its seaborne trade, including energy imports from the Middle East; and, between the U.S. 5th and 7th fleets, a skewed balance of naval capability that will be hard for China to redress, even by asymmetric means. Taken together, this suggests an approach that would involve crippling China’s economy by blockading or destroying its commercial shipping in war, and, in peacetime, holding it at risk to encourage Beijing’s ongoing acquiescence.
Is China’s Africa Safari Faltering?
It’s a strategy out of Washington’s World War II playbook. Indeed, the mere presence of a powerful allied naval contingent along China’s sea-lines will require Beijing to divert considerable resources away from its immediate maritime periphery, much as it did with Japan in the 1940s, diluting the singularity of Chinese efforts in the Western Pacific.
This is where Australia comes in: as a central point between the two theatres, and, more importantly, as a base that can be made ready at relatively short notice to support an expanded commerce raiding or blockading campaign against China, most likely in the western reaches of the Indian Ocean.
The third motivation for an expanded U.S. presence in Australia is political. Washington is keenly aware of China’s centrality to Australia’s economic wellbeing. American strategists also recognize the extraordinary geographic advantages that Australia enjoys – a shoulder each in the Pacific and Indian Oceans, its back to Antarctica and shielded in front by a long archipelago. They understand what many Australian fail to see: that Canberra could, with some clear thinking and a substantial yet sustainable increase in spending, strike a more independent strategic posture, defending itself without becoming entangled in the power-politics of Northeast Asia. And they are determined to prevent Australia from becoming the ally that got away.
In this regard, Washington is being clever. It is taking full advantage of Australia’s current strategic dependence, locking in Canberra’s political and military support further, thereby minimizing the potential of any future Australian realignment.
The views expressed in this article are solely those of Raoul Heinrichs.
© 2011 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
| Advertising practices | Advertise with us | About us | Contact us | Work for us | Help
I hope that having US military presence doesn't make countries more likely to be targeted by China and less likely to be the recipients of Chinese largesse. Since China will be by far the most important economic power in the region in future it would be a mistake for the US to waste money on maintaining military bases that in reality serve little positive military benefit, cost a lot and turn the whole region into a powderkeg. In the cold war America was on the side of good. In this friction with China, the US seems to be the selfish belligerent intent on extending its own power (like Nazi Germany), and will lose support fast.
Well said, pmcdonald. There is one difference here, America was never on the side of "good" in the cold war, it was as always, on the side of "greed". Today that's truer than ever. Besides, Australia has no need for U.S. troops since nobody poses any kind of a threat to that country. Just more hog wash from the right-wing media trying to scare us over China!
Everyone is the side of greed. All societies are based on greed.
Really? Opposing a social, political and militaristic group that thought nothing of invading and swallowing up other countries, their citizens and governments to place them under their direct control isn't on the side of good? Really?
I don't know if America was on the side of good or greed in the cold war, but one thing I do know: the Soviet Union was on the side of evil. I know because I lived there. So if standing against evil is good, then America was on the side of good. As for China, it looks kind of like the Soviet Union which figured out how to make its economy work. Draw your own conclusions from this.
Try telling that to the people of western Europe who would have starved and frozen without the Marshall plan – or the people of west Berlin who nearly starved without the US airlift – or the entire population of western Europe who would have been helpless against the vast red Army without US backup. The Soviets crushed opposition under the wheels of their tanks in Czechoslovakia and Hungary – they had to build a wall across the whole country of Germany to keep the people prisoner. Yet all you can do is talk childish nonsense about US greed. You know nothing of history – you are a rude little child. Probably a Chinese one too.
@ Joseph McCarthy, out of pacifist point of view, you make sense! We live in a real world and realpolitik is our daily bread. I do think that most trouble spots are in Asia, which harbours more than half of the world's population. Densely populated areas are conflict-prone regions. In our world of interdependence, conflicts are contagious. As the U.S. is determined to maintain its influence over the region, it makes sense to join forces with Australia. The alliance wouldn't pose much problems as both countries share the same culture.
@ Joe M...spoken like a true Nazi
Mr. McCarthy: The side of greed during the Cold War, you say. Your analysis is oversimplified. The world is far more complicated than that.
Interesting analysis of the Cold War....for Sesame Street audiences.
It's better to read history books, than to burn them.
I did not know CNN was right wing.
This might be the dumbest comment today, but if ever we were on the side of Good it was The Cold war, even if it wasnt intentional.
If you think we were not on the good side in the cold war you never went to Berlin where hundreds were killed over the years just trying to Leave the soviet bloc. Not enter it. Your perspective on history is odd.
There are so many Chinese in here pretending to be American that the comments have zero discussion value. Bob, Jeff, John, and Henry, common American names. But Chinese think they're fooling us by using them. This discussion thread is a lost cause. If you want to discuss USA national security issues, discuss it in person. These stinky commies will show up with their stupid "disguise" on and stink up the conversation with their bad China breath.
Ah the 50 cent army, Chinese mind trick. Try to talk us out of doing the smart thing. Not going to work comrade! Never back down from a bully because of what they "might" do to you. A lesson repeated throughout history. Standing up to them is always the best thing you can do. Because a bully is a bully, they aren't going to be nice no matter the outcome. Best to give them hell. And in our case, we will win.
I'm curious if you have even the slightest bit of self-awareness of the fact that your message comes off as that of an arrogant bully, exactly that which you are nominally railing against? You really must live "through the looking glass."
China is right to be afraid of 2,500 marines. I will say that much.
James, you have stinky China breath
Que?
China's economy is all show. It's Western factories driving industrialization in China. Not anything the Chinese government is doing. Without them, it's just another large 3rd world country. Those factories can be moved, by the way. Your status as our sole laborer is not guaranteed.
How arrogant, learn your history. The west robbed China of it's wealth and now is claiming to be the savior. You sould like a clueless redneck, who only knows the American side of thing, but not other countries!
Despite what he may sound like, I have to agree with Josh here. The Chinese economy is heavily reliant on America and Europe, as sources of employment and as markets for exports. Regardless of what the west may have done to China's wealth a 100 years ago, China's economy today is dependent on the west, and should conflict break out the US and any other western powers involved would freeze Chinese assets and economic connections. Such action would effectively undermine the Chinese government's budget, which includes the military.
Ok, let’s see.... government subsidized medical care, currency manipulation, government business subsidies, no taxation, etc... No wonder American businesses are in China. Aside from the fact that their own industry enjoys these wonderful benefits as we had the displeasure of enduring during the 70's when they dumped cheap tools and other products into our economy... I have and still see the effect of this on a daily basis. My father worked in a factory that produced pipe wrenches, vises, etc… equipment that would last for years on end. During the 70’s they ended up producing bomb lugs and Chevy rocker arms because they could no longer compete in the market. They went from over 200 employees to 7 when my father retired… It wasn’t just the Republicans that sold us out… it was ALL OF THE POLITICIANS… who, mind you, get a free ride when elected… China gets a free ride while WE suffer… When are we going to say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!
China of today destroyed China of the past. You have no one to blame but yourselves, or more specifically your communist party.
The US will NOT be wasting money on maintaining military bases in Australia. Simply as they have been invited to use Australian bases for joint exercises with Australian forces. Joint exercises have been going on for decades and the media is just blowing it way out of proportion.
I read this horribly disconnected article and I thought to myself nothing could be worse than this guy's premises. Then I got to the comments. I'm not sure where CNN found this author, he's not apart of any major think tanks, nor is he associated with anything of signification in the IR world. He tries to claim America needs a base in Australia due to faltering power, then he claims we need it to counter the Chinese strategy of denying space, and finally that we need it to choke the south pacific trading lanes. None of which are true. America's hard power isn't diminished at all, countering your opponents strategy isn't a sign of weakness it's the natural course of action. You don't sit idly while your opponent makes moves, and finally as one of maybe three countries in the world that has a true blue water navy. America doesn't need Australia for controlling the Indian Ocean, the 5th and 7th fleets do what they want. It's true we already use Australian ports, but more access to them isn't going to change the way the Navy operates. I'd like to point out that China does not have a blue water navy, and limited force projection capabilities.
Finally, someone with common sense, and no pessimistic China outlook!
Even this far into post-Cold War budget cuts, the US Navy is still more powerful than the rest of the world's combined. The author of this article mentions that China is built upon the "saturation attack."
What he fails to mention is that after their initial all-out attack, they don't have the physical capability of transporting significant manpower to any point they wish to occupy. Then they have to deal with the fact that a single branch of the US Armed Forces (USAF in this case), can hit the occupation forces with the same amount of ordnance from their "massive attack" every day for years. They are NOT a military threat, and their economy is a paper tiger. All it would take is trade sanctions against the Chinese, whose economy is designed to fulfill US and European needs, and they crumble like a Jenga tower. We'll still be here.
@Scott
Keep on taking your meds, the 14 trillion dollar debt isn't going anywhere you know. Like the Romans, America is destined to fall sooner or later.
You had me until you compared the US with Nazi Germany.
Attention Mr. President! This 'clever move' demonstrates how dumb politics can get in the 21st Century. With today's needs stationing 2,500 food, climate and environmental scientists would make better sense.
Nice saying,I don't see how clever is this move is.As citizen of the world,we should make our government known,we don't need cat and mouse game .U.S. use this tactic for the past and it's not working around the world.We want the U.S. government be a leader to guide the world morally to achieve world peace.Show the world to solve problem with commonsense and fairness without war game,wedging between countries and taking side.Then people will say thank you Uncle Sam and God bless America.I don't know so far it seems the U.S. try to sell for another cold war.People around the world is sick and tire of this kind of stupid game.Use your mighty power properly please.
Clearly you don't understand. The choice is between being the cat or the mouse. Only other nations get to choose being a spectator.
China is out for China and has the ruthlessness to do it. Just look at Tibet. China always allies itself with despots, i.e. Iran Burma, N. Korea, Sudan etc. The US squandered its strength by poorly planning two wars thanks to the arrogant incompetence of Rumsfelt and Cheney and naivity of W. Bush, but the US cannot afford to sit on its laurels and hope for the best. We need to regain our footing and move foward learning from the lessons of what we did wrong. The US may not be perfect, but only the world's communists to include the American Left and the Islamists see the U.S. as greedy and evil.
Cold war is a war of the balance of nuclear terror.
There is a UC Berkeley Report, which can be found in Internet, about Apple i-Phone value chain. The struggle of i-Phone value: Apple profit 59%, Chines labor 1.8%. Apple now has cash of $81.5 billion. Where is the cash came from? Steve Jobs outsourced all Apple jobs to southern China. Apple gets $385 selling per i-Phone. Foxxcon, the Taiwanese factory in China get 90 cents by manufacturing each i-Phone. If Apple manufacture i-Phone in California, to get the same margin, i-Phone will be sold 200% more than today price. Would Apple fans line up to buy i-Phone? Who sent jobs overseas? Not the Chinese workers 8,000 miles away. Steve Job pushed the idea and his board approved it. It is the US corporations. But more fundamentally, it is the American consumers at Apple shops, Walmart, Home Depot that sends all American jobs overseas. It is American like you and me who want affordable goods so that we can make ends meet easier after a decade of stagnant wages.
1972年，日本著名歷史學家 井上清 Kiyoshi Inoue 寫了 《釣魚島的歷史解析》 一書，該書再版為書名《釣魚島歷史與主權》。
在該書中，井上清寫到：
1971年11月，我初次去冲繩旅行，在那裏收集了許多關于釣魚群島的歷史資料，1972年初，我又利用到西歐旅行的機會，去英國海軍資料館查閱了英國海軍繪制的中國南部、臺灣和琉球方面的海圖，航海日志以及探險記錄。
眾所周知，釣魚群島自明朝以來就是中國的領土 – 井上清寫到日本及琉球在1867年以前實際上沒有一份釣魚群島的歷史文獻。
與日本及琉球方面正相反，中國方面有許多關于釣魚群島的文獻資料。
至少在16世紀中葉，釣魚群島就有了中國名字。如釣魚島、黃毛嶼、赤嶼等等。
井上清幾乎是在日本有影響力的歷史學家當中唯一一個敢于尊重事實，堅持說釣魚群島屬于中國的 – 這樣絕無僅有的一個例證。
it certainly is the us corporation outsourcing manufacturing to satisfy americas insatiable demand for consumer goods despite stagnate wages. NOW LETS TAKE IT ONE STEP FURTHER. low interest rates, inflation, and the manipulation of our money supply – while at the same time these export lead countries keeping their currency low and our currency high through purchasing treasuries... CENTRAL BANK MANIPULATION. don't blame the us consumer for wanting cheap stuff, don't blame corporations for wanting to make money, dont blame developing nations for wanting to develop, dont blame poor migrant workers for working for 5 cents an hour. BLAME THE FEDERAL RESERVE. AND END THE FED.
Pacifist speech, so according to you we should abandon all influence in pacific and give it in to china. China is going to roll over every country in the region if someone doesn't stand up to them
當我們看中國的外交，卻發現她很多時會在違背自身價值觀和利益的情況下，向各國妥協。可見中國外交的失敗。
中共所實行的睦鄰政策，可說是徹底的失敗。中共現在的領導人奉行鄧小平那套所謂的「韜光養晦」政策。但其實，這只是一種逃避挑戰的鴕鳥政策。當今中國所面臨的惡劣國際環境，則決定了這種鴕鳥政策必然失敗。
在這種鴕鳥政策主導下，中國外交不僅畏首畏尾，更胸無大志，既沒有系統的外交戰略，也沒有長遠的外交目標。這種頭痛醫頭、腳痛醫腳式的外交政策，直接導致中國外交在面對各種挑釁時束手無策，盡顯軟弱之態，面對大好機遇時，也因毫無戰略準備而無所作為。
對印度對日本甚至是越南，中國都是畏首畏尾，一昧退讓，實行韜光養晦。本來，鄧小平的韜光養晦，是指平時積蓄力量，關鍵時刻果斷出手，是一種積極進取的外交思維。但現在，卻成了一種鴕鳥政策，令人無奈。
其實，按照中國現在的實力，根本不用如此讓步，中共對東南亞國家，對日本，甚至是越南，都讓得太多。完全顯示不到大國風範，畏首畏尾的外交政策，只會令中國人蒙羞！
至於對印度和越南的外交處理手法，中共簡直令人覺得恥辱。情況就好像當年清政府打贏法國，但仍然賠償法國一樣。令人覺得是絕大的恥辱。
中國在和俄羅斯，印度，日本，越南等周遍強國的政治經濟往來中，沒有佔到多少便宜，也沒有讓這些列強放棄對中國崛起的偏見和敵視，自身利益不斷被侵占，不能不說中國的外交政策有很大缺陷，這是中國國家佈局計劃和外交政策慘敗的最佳體現。
中國常常想成為一等一的大國，但他的外交卻事事以懦弱的方式勉強了事，實在不能給人任何強國的風範。
釣魚島問題專家、香港中文大學亞太研究所研究員鄭海麟從釣魚台列嶼的歷史地位切入，直指釣島隸屬中國毫無疑義。他指出，中日兩國大量歷史文獻表明，最早發現、命名和使用釣魚台列嶼的是中國人，而不是琉球人或日本人。釣魚島列嶼並不屬於「舊琉球王朝的勢力所及範圍」，該列嶼在明朝便被納入中國海防及行政管制區域。
一九五一年的《舊金山（三藩市）合約》根本沒有涉及釣魚台列嶼的主權問題。一九五二年美國託管當局將釣魚島列嶼劃入琉球列島地理境界的經緯度內，是極不適當和不合國際法的。因此，日本聲稱擁有該列嶼主權在國際法上不能成立。
中國大陸學者近年來對釣魚島議題的研究下了很大工夫。清華大學當代國際關係研究院副院長劉江永教授指出，事實證明日本早在甲午戰爭前十年已知釣魚台列嶼屬於中國。
日外務省當年編撰的《日本外交文書》第十八卷和第二十三卷中，對明治政府竊取釣魚島的決策過程有非常詳實的記載。換言之，釣魚台列嶼是日本乘甲午戰爭之機，未等簽署馬關條約而從中國竊取的。如今，日方稱其與馬關條約，即甲午戰爭無關，根本站不住腳。
二戰後釣島問題懸而未決與美國介入密不可分。劉江永指出，一九七一年美國擅自決定將釣島的行政管轄權交給日本政府，遭到全球華人的強烈反對，掀起保釣浪潮，迫使美國迄今迄未承認日本擁有釣島的主權，而希望中日雙方和平協商解決。然而，二零一零年以來美國政府多次明確表示，釣魚島適用於美日安保條約第五條，「這是造成日本政府在釣魚島問題上有恃無恐採取強硬做法的重要外部因素」。
事實上，東京法院曾經判定釣魚島屬於台北州。台灣光復前一年，台灣與琉球為釣魚島發生歸屬權之爭，當時該法院將釣魚台列嶼判決為台北州所有，更加證明釣魚島主權屬台灣。
此外，中國大陸學者、上海社會科學研究院法學研究所副研究員、海洋法研究中心主任金永明，上海國際問題研究院學術委員會副主任、上海市日本學會會長吳寄南等，也發表論文，探索釣島的國際地位，力證釣魚島主權屬中華民族。
台灣師範大學東亞系助理教授林賢參則從戰略意涵分析釣魚島問題的本質。他說，中國大陸追求成為「海洋強國」，企圖掌控西太平洋海域之制海權，會壓縮日本防衛之戰略縱深；政治大學亞太研究所副研究員李瓊莉，也提出國際經驗的比較。
政大外交系教授趙國材說，釣魚台列嶼問題迄今無解，指出釣島問題不論從歷史地位或法律地位探討皆無意義，因為國際政治乃強權政治，關於釣島主權誰屬是老大哥美國說了算。
趙國材又表示，台灣願意依聯合國憲章及國際法和平解決國際爭端的規範，從主權、戰略位置、海洋權益與維護資源等面向，以確保釣魚台列嶼領土主權完整，與日本談判，並保護台灣漁民權益。唯日方無意願與台灣談判主權問題，只願和台灣談判漁權，想透過台灣獲得漁權用來騙取釣魚台列嶼的主權。但保釣出身的總統馬英九並未上當，既要漁權也要主權。
台灣有人主張拉攏美國介入東海爭端，使日本、中國大陸、台灣、美國形成四方機制，能更有效解決釣魚台列嶼主權問題，並提升台灣之國際地位。趙國材認為，這種做法可能會引狼入室，不見得對台灣有利，因為美日在外交上皆承認北京，與台灣沒有邦交，且釣魚台列嶼附近之海域處於防衛美國本土的第一島鏈上，可能牽動東北亞安全情勢和美日的戰略布局，美國在釣魚台列嶼問題上一向表態中立，骨子裏其實偏袒日本。
台灣政治大學國際法學研究中心研究員邵漢儀首次全部全文公開日方釣島的新史料，掀起高潮。邵的父親邵玉銘當年留美時亦曾參與保釣運動，如今父子兩代同台參與釣魚島會議，傳為佳話。
日本外務省於一九七一年提出的《我國關於尖閣諸島領有權的基本見解》聲稱﹕「自一八八五年以來，日本政府通過沖繩縣當局等途徑再三在尖閣諸島進行實地調查，慎重確認尖閣諸島不僅為無人島，而且沒有受清朝統治的痕跡。在此基礎上，於一八九五年一月二十一日，在內閣會議上決定在島上建立標樁，以正式列入我國領土之內。」
為了調查日方說法的真相，邵漢儀曾親往日本查閱相關原件，包括仍未公開的明治時期史料。他從日本外務省外交史料館、防衛省防衛研究所圖書館，以及國立公文書館尋得近四十件原件，首次全部公開。他歷時兩年餘發現明治政府從未派員至釣魚島進行實地調查，所謂「再三」調查純屬捏造。
韓國外國語大學教授黃載皓認為，今年三月中國發表國防白皮書，確立戰略目標是國家現代化、力主防禦性國防、與他國建立軍事互信，他懷疑中日會爆發大戰，也不認為日本會放棄二戰後的現代化貿然掀起戰端。不過，另一位韓國學者國家安保戰略研究院研究員朴炳光指出，韓日兩國近年提出擴大交流合作關係的「新時代」理念，但對於韓國，獨島攸關經濟及軍事戰略國家利益，不可能讓步。
Speak English If you want others to read what you post...
There is one thing we all should remember.China is a communist country and communism is EVIL. I am immigrant and I love this land call USA. Because FREEDOM is priceless .
Spend more on our military, huh? What a load of rubbish – we're looking for economic stability in a global economy that is rapidly sinking, not a 'military presense'. Even if every single one of our citizens joined the military, we'd never compare to the strategic positions of other nations in the Asia-Pacific rim. Lowest population density, a large mass of land, etc, we'd never be able to 'defend' it as well as other nations, not without substantial losses – especially with most of our citizens overseas fighting in the middle east, peace keeping in the oceanic rim. I'm certain any increase in budget for the military that didn't go directly into the well being of Aussie troops would see a large Australian outcry.
What a rubbish comment Candice, Australia's economy is stable and can afford an increase in ADF spending to expand our RAAF & RAN. And please don't say there will be an Australian outcry, you do not speak for all Australians.
Whilst Australia has a great affection and loyalty to America there is little fear of China here. Our history has been quite anti-asian but in the last few decades that has become regretted much the way America moved on from slavery. China is not seen as expansionist largely because it has no history of it. It will take many years for Australians to feel as socially comfortable with the Chinese as it is with Americans but there is no reason for new friendships to displace old ones.
No history of expansion? Go learn some Asian history before preaching mate. Ask the Tibetans, the Mongolians, the Uighurs, the Vietnamese, and the Koreans to see what they have to say about China's expansionism.
Go read some history books. Tibet and Mongolia have been part of China since hundreds of years ago, the problem they have is separatism, not expansionism. For Vietnam and Korea, China has not taken an inch of their land. The war with Vietnam was a border dispute, like UK fighted the war against Argentina on Folkland Island.
Mongolians! That's hog wash, why do you think there is the great wall of China!
Why do you think there is a stupid Yuen Dynasty. Read history again before you make a one side dumb remark.
Let me educate those who is still lack of historical knowledge, who is still polluted by western bias education on ASIA especially CHINA. Tibetans – belong to China since Yuan dynasty – even recognized by other country such as British during KuaMinTang era. Inner Mongolians – Is not because of the dirty game played by US and Russia, the whole Mongolia is belong to China.
Well, why dun the white people in US and Australia leave the invaded land, and give it back to the local American and Aus native
Korea and Vietnam saw expansionism from Russia, not China. More specifically, Stalin used the Cambridge spies' information to calculate the move. And the Cambridge spies did not work for Beijing.
I am Vietnamese and we know well of China's intentions. China invaded Vietnam many times and failed, including recently in 1979. Tibet was an independent country until China invaded it in 1949. They invaded Vietnamese Paracel islands in 1974 and Spratley islands in 1988. They claim all of China Sea. They confiscated and killed innocent Vietnamese fiishermen in Vietnamese waters. They attacked India in 1960. They sent thousands of Chinese workers who are really PLA to harass Vietnamese people. Believe me, China is not to be trusted. They lie about everything belongs to them since ancient times.
Ask the Indians too.
Was tibet a free county in the 1950. if so then it was conquered, end of story. rest all is chinese propaganda. tibetan language and culture has always been different. It is like the arabs saying that spain belongs to them because they once ruled a part of it for some time.
The Lord must have loved simpletons. He made so many of them.
So prevailing in a military conflict decides issues between peoples permanently? Guess the Palestinens, the Lebenese, the Syrians, the Egyptians, etc. didn't get the memo. LOL!
If Dalai returns to Tibet, we will see another Taliban dynasty re-established itself. We do not like Chinese but they did bring a lot of economic growth to Tibet. Dalai will bring disaster when Tibet regress back into Middle Age where monks and priests rule the country based on supreme religious authority, based on the myth that Dalai is an reincarnation of god.
As long as China keep the one-child policy, it would not start any wars. Can you imagine an army of only child? The country decided to shrink population instead of occupy new land.
A lot of the western analysis is done by a white man thinking what he would do if he has a Chinaman's resources. A white man, being created in God's image, would naturally go somewhere, guns blazing and claim land for Democracy and Country. But a Chinaman is not a whiteman. All he thinks is to be left alone and make a little money.
The last reason given in this article is the one that concerns me the most. As an Australian I am well aware that our future lies with China as it becomes the largest economy in the world, and a military super power. China has a lot invested here, and we are without a doubt central to both their economic and strategic plans. China has the manufacturing power to produce and supply a modern army that could dwarf that of the US, and Australia has the natural resources needed to create it. With a larger US presence here, it could turn our country into the front line of any conflict.
Exactly...better to find yourselves on the front line with friends helping you defend your homeland than being overran and finding yourselves in re-education camps learning how to read and write Chinese.
get a grip Jeff – leave off the weed
Well, there obviously won't be a conflict with China if Australia rolls over without a fight when China knocks on the door HARD! I wouldn't bet on YOU, but I would bet on most Aussies to stand up quick for the independence of their country without a second thought if and when tested.
Australians don't 'rollover' maggot! Check your history sport...toughest people on the planet! Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!
@queenslander,
I agree with you! My post was a response to a preceding one by an Aussie concerned about his country being in the line of fire of China if allied with the U.S.
You are a coward. Ever heard of democracy and human rights? Freedom? As an American, I respect all people willing to fight for freedom. I bet most Australians would agree with me. If you would prefer a little security and money from you masters, you don't belong in any free country.
No worry mate, keep selling the rocks that don't belong to you in the first place. You have it made.
Splendid democratic idea by Obama- Permanent forward deployed Pacific forces F22s and C-17 Cargo Transport Aircraft. Funny thing is, having such a full presence like this will cost millions if not trillions and violates the Strategic Planning concept of being able to deploy force structures from the continental U.S. anytime, anywhere, anyplace within 24-72 hours. This concept was designed after the Cold War threats went away and Russia was no longer a threat in order to reduce the miltary foot print abroad and save taxpayer money. Now, Obama wants to do the opposite and Spend more money! C-17s being forward based barely qualifies for the anywhere, anytime, anyplace concept which was developed using C-17 and C-5 transports originating from the U.S. not Australia.
The notion that the US's military dominance is being 'hallowed' out by China is complete foolishness. China is in no way pushing the US out of its realm. This move shows just the opposite. Also, this article talks about the possibility of a war between the US and China- China could not stand up to the US in any sort of conflict short of nuclear war. And even with nuclear conflict China lacks the delivery systems and positioned weapons to attack the US directly, rather they would attack US allies and possibly bases in those countries. China's entire military could not match the US's current presence in Asia-Pacfic. Aside from how stupid a war would considering the economic interdependance, if a war were to occur it would be over quick, fast, and in a hurry.
Its been a long time since the US fought a state in full blown war. The last instances were easy massacres. Granted these were much weaker powers than China, it can be assured that US forces have gone over the 'what if' scenario with China and in the even that Chinese chose war, they would chose differently very quickly after.
As for Australians I don't believe they have much to worry about. I don't believe a war is coming anytime soon. This move is rather a flexing of the muscles and a chance for the US and Australia to reach greater levels of cooperation.
I totally agree Nico, China has not been and will not be a threat militarily to the USA. Anyone including the President who sates so, is a ignorant and ignores every piece of intelligence out there today. China has become an economic power house and as such will not risk going to war with the US period. We know this and so saying we need forward deployed F22s and C-17s in Australia is absurd because of China. As you pointed out- its a nice place in the sun for some premadonna F22 Generals to station there bases.
If you can put a man in orbit, and return him safely to your own territory, then you can put a warhead on a target anywhere on the planet. Remember, these are nukes, close enough is fine. And yes...I am a rocket scientist from Houston. My guess is, China could destroy the US even today. I would bet our military planners have come to the same conclusion. That's probably why they are constantly asking China to be 'more open' about their capabilities, because they don't KNOW...but they are pretty sure.
Anyone with the ability to put people in space and safely return them to any place they please, and the ability to blow satellites out of orbit...definitely has the technology to deliver anything to your city or state...flowers, pizzas or nukes. The only question is 'Have they built it?'...not...'CAN they build it?'
ah you're right. my mistake. China has ICBM's that could likely reach the West Coast.
we can't trust this country they are communist, looks what chinese doing in the phliippines, they make problems from human trafficking, drugs, smuggled goods, bribery to the corrupt politicians
Mind to share where you got this information.
It is the mindset planted into your mind by the bias western media.
What about the madoff scandal ? Enron Scandal; money printing; invading iraq for no reason "where is the WMD" ?
At least the US holds Madoff and the Enron execs accountable for their actions. I don't see the same coming from China anytime soon.
@Ben – in China, Madoff would have been executed. Chinese are slower to pick up on corruption, but are waaaaaay more severe about it when they do move on it. Say what you will about Chinese "justice" there are things to be liked about how they make sure when the hammer drops, it drops hard.
Guess you haven't looked at the statistics for the US. population. In a couple of years, those who are open to honest thinking will wish for the US to disappear, including its own citizens.
Tiananmen Square ring the bell to anyone? that's communism
Excellent. But where does India fit in this theatre of deterrence?
Hidden in Italian skirt
where is my bloody comment
You have a Chinese name in an Anti-Chinese article. Most likely it got deleted. Too much facts for the average Joe and Jill to handle.
there could a military conflict between china and other asian country over south china sea or east china sea or sanpuku island or n korea or tibet. not now, but sometime in the future.
china and other countries have the sea and land disputes (each country blaming each other for attacking fishermen's ships and etc) and China's people's Army might turn more nationalistic in the future.
that's why those asian countries still want to keep US military presence (at least the leaders do, probably not so much ordinary citizens)
i hope there won't be any war, but who knows in next 10 years or so when china might face a generational change and internal instability. Their one child policy in the past will cause some social unrest in the future with their aging population and lack of young women.
but i agree that the current community party led by hu jintao seem reasonable enough and not threatening.
US shouldn't overreact.
i It's me again,where is my comment? butt off!
Fareed Zakaria bloody Anti – American. He need a opportunity to take a jibe on the country he is living.
What is so bloody smart of moving 2500 American marines to Australia. It is just an election gesture from the Obama. What this really shows is how weak the Australian leadership are. If there is a shooting war between the China and US, Australia will be caught in the crossfire. You can blame the Australian Jodie Foster lookalike for that.
Australia was always going to be in the cross fire mate, if you didn't notice the past 60 years, Australia & the US are allies, and we will spill blood in the same mud against the Chinese if any shooting war erupts. It was a smart move.
Mate, we don't always have to toady to the Yanks. We have paid enough to them in blood. We should just cut the apron's string. It is about time.
Why do we keep spending on wars? America should spend its resources on developing renewable and achieving energy independence. While America fights wars, China has used its money wisely by acquiring businesses in Europe and buying bonds from America and Europe. China has invested massively in emerging markets like Africa while US business presence is diminishing in those markets. China is investing in mineral exploitation in Africa and is getting alot of the rare earth metals it needs for its weapon technology and industries, while America is selling its assets in those areas and preparing for imaginery wars. China is winning the cold war against America. What has happened to the breed of Americans that went to the moon and developed the technologies that warm our hearts when we look at them? Obama has dissappointed all of us in Africa who love America and wished for change in the Whitehouse. I looked to see change in energy sources and massive research and development in green energy. What did I see?...more wars and military build up. I hoped to see America embrace Cuba, Venezuela and Russia...what did I see...embargoes, tougher diplomatic stance and more anger. I looked to see the US leave Afghanistan and channel war funds into scientific research, investment in Africa and emerging markets and better life for "Joe the Plumber"...what did I see...job cuts, more war spending and nothing more. I hoped to see American jobs in china return to America through development of low cost production systems achieved through research and investment in cutting egde technology...what did I see...free trade with China, more use products with "made in China" stamp!!! In God we Trust!!!
thank you for the most intelligent comment in this matter
thank you to!
i agree with Pa. Very well constructed and thought out. Could not agree more on your points. Thanks
Excellently and eloquently put. I couldn't agree more.
Just so you Leftists don't think ALL Americans are asleep, if America ever embraced Cuba, Venezuela OR Russia all it would receive would be a knife blade between the ribs. Every one, without exception, would dance with glee on the grave of America if they could.
But they can't, and never will.
China is not "getting rare earth" from anywhere, they have plenty in China.
Obama "embrace Venezuela,Cuba,Russia" ?.. LOL You must be listening to the Republicans ! Obama like ALL
the US presidents are concerned with America first!
"Obama has dissappointed all of us in Africa who". LOL. You are fooling no one you are NOT in Africa.
Question.... Can the shadow government and economic power folks move their power base to China from America?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Just because the US is broke, doesn't mean they can't open more bases around the world. Well, they'll just have to take more money from the middle class. No problem. Or let's just continue printing worthless dollars until it finally collapses. I can't wait.
Looks like all white guys in the picture.....yeahhh boyyyyyy...... I am so happy to be a former us army officer and a person who pays all his taxes !!!!! I am sure someone will reward me for my giving nature.... Maybe one day i'll be cool enough to be on the apprentice
Screw china we are the great power you should all be happy that the great power comes in peace bring it on china bring it onnnnn.
It doesn't sound peace to me in middle east. Invading iraq and where is the WMD ??
Kim Jung il your next we are gonna take those high heel shoes and and crack your skull with them hahahah and to my Aussies AMERICA has your back... And after we are done we are gonna have a cold fosters...
It will not happen, because the greedy US is only interested in country in oil such as iraq, iran and libya.
Thats the reason why Myanmar and North Korea is still under dictator.
wake up boy, dun polluted by the western bias media.
You still live in US own nutshell
Please don't mention Fosters, no one drinks that here!
No problem here. The uselessness of a dominant power in the Pacific will only give way to a chess match. China is expansionistic in concept. The United States is imperialistic in its patterns. Check Mate! This makes for a "cold war" in the Pacific. Alarmist do not worry the United States is broke, China is wealthy, but for how long? China has a hungry population, America has a hungry population. Check Mate! Balance of power maybe what is being displayed here and thus one more chess move is being prepared and on the table. Boys will be boys, play on, play on.
The difference with china, is its investing heavily and pushing its population to migrate to Africa. As a result, it will not only be a super power to recon with but it will control every aspect of your life.
forget Libya, the rest of Africa is what will be important in the coming decade. ( business opportunity + industrialization ) and china or lets say chinese companies have it all.
Well this is a sad blog!! But lets just take a quick look at the history between Australia and the USA. Whenever the 'Yanks have been in a war', whether they started it or not, which country has sent their troops to support the good old USA, every time?? Being an Aussie, I am well aware of the price we may pay, by continuing to support the USA, being that most of our trade is with China!! We run the risk of turning into something like a Euro basket case, by supporting the USA in it’s drive for what can only be seen as 'Expansionism' into the Indian Ocean. On the flip side of that, we recognise that if it was not for the USA, we would have been overrun in WWII. Why don’t you just accept, that Australia is willing to risk a great deal, by continuing to recognise the relationship and support, the USA have given us, in our hour of need and simply want to repay, the faith you had in us!!
As an American, I agree with everything you said, most Americans do. Its just the sad few that post retarded comments about how they want the would do be ruled by China or whatever it is they think they want. Ignore them.
Just as an afterthought, you're President is only the 5th who has taken the time to travel here. I thought he did a great deal to cement the strong relationship our countries have. The fact that he took the time to visit the memorial for the USS Perry, went a long way here. Why don’t you get out of your comfort zone, travel down here and see why this relationship is so strong!! I’d be happy to be your guide)
What president? He has you fooled too! Well, I love Australia and I have been there, but to follow his "leading" is like the blind person leading the guide dog.
I agree with Rickie. Maybe what we need is Politicians with vision. Does anyone see any on the horizon??
What surprises me is that people can talk about a "shooting war" between China and the US as if we still lived in 40-45.While China and the USA are both nuclear powers.I mean will the US start "commerce raiding" before or after all of it's cities are turned into a nuclear wasteland? War between advanced industrialized powers in general is a extremely dangerous proposition if not suicidal. Any such conflict would be more deadly then ww1 or ww2.Yet it seems like military strategists still look at the world as if we were back in the 30's or 40's and WMD's didn't exist.
Both US and Australia are depending on China finance for expanding their navy. For instance US needs huge finance for building aircraft carriers and ultrasonic fighter jets. That huge amount of money was borrowed from China by selling bonds. Australia is selling iron ore and natural gas to China for modernizing her navy and air force too. Russia got broke in 1980s because of unsustainable military budget. US got broke in 2008 because of wall street bankers and two pro long wars.
Australia population and GDP is so small. It will be broke if it is expanding her military like US or Russia.
At end, China will be broke if she joined arm race with both nations. No winners and all are losers.
America increasing its military strategic position in Australia.......just SMELLS really bad!
US and Australian joint military exercises have been going on for decades. The US had been invited to use the Australian bases for the joint exercises. The US will NOT be wasting money on maintaining military bases in Australia as they are Australian bases and allways will be. It appears that the media are blowing some things out of proportion similarly as some others here are doing.
China is Australia's biggest trading partner while America is our closest and strongest ally. Australia will be keen to appease both parties and the US presence on Australian soil will in no way threaten the Australian Chinese relationship
Dean you are correct in the US presence on Australian soil will in no way threaten the Australian Chinese relationship. Yeah China wants to do big trading with Australia and China does not want to hinder that.
The World simply cant afford an American Vs China war it wont happen and never should
Its a sad state of affairs. Having so many nice chinese people living in the US and Australia makes me wonder what would happen if either country participated in a war. Ever think the reason China builds a strong defence force is to be prepared when the day of invasion comes for resources? Its a bloody big country, it has every right to be as strong as US and other countries. Lets just hope God and intelligence/humbleness in man secures our future and wars can be avoided.
Australia is a bloody big country and whoever wants to invade first has to get here in force. Meanwhile Australia will keep an eye out to see if that might happen via the joint facility at Pine Gap and the new one in Western Australia.
The new proposed marine base will be in the Northern Territory at Darwin. That is not Western Australia. That is a territory of Australia and under the control of the Commonwealth. Western Australia is self governed and would need a vote of the West Aussie people. There has been talk of a base just off Port Hedland but that has not even passed first base yet. The proposed base in Darwin will be a front for a nursing home for battle broken soldiers, as it is too expensive to take them home because they will claim health issues and get discharged. It will be interesting when their racism towards black people starts though.
ironore068 your new proposed marine base is RAAF Base Darwin behind the medical section where the marines have been before for decades. In Western Australia they join us at RAAF Base Curtin near Derby and RAAF Base Learmonth near Exmouth.
I feel sorry for Australia as once again it has become the whipping boy for other nations eg the Brits, now the U.S we are always fighting other people's wars and seems proud to die for other nations ...can't figure that one out!! Now the Marines are coming and we know what the US Forces do best they just stay on and on and on...its a subtle invasion really and the Australian public are too daft to see it!! like would the US allow troops from another nation to use their bases and stick around!!!??!! the whole Obama trip was an exercise on how Australia should be run ...isnt Australia a bit too grown up for that now!
Alan your "subtle invasion" is stupid. Joint exercises have been going on for decades and Australians have even gone to US bases for joint exercises.
My view of Alan's statement reflects maturity. Unfortunately, Steady Eddy's statement reflects a person who prefers Australia to continue to be a running mate for the US. Australia surely can stand on its own as a nation without being dogmatically bias towards US purely on the account that many of its citizens share the same root as the Americans.
hwangte so Australia surely can stand on its own it needs a close friend to gladly sell them things like Abrams Tanks, Super Hornets and the new F-35 Stealth Fighters, plus other things including high tech missiles. So maybe you should think again.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? My instructor at Ft. Lee Virginia was an Australian Military Captain...we have Austrailian troops on US soil, we have joint cooperation based on joint respect, shared goals and a common interest...you are such a fool.
We do not have australian troops stationed in the US. If he was your instructor, he was either there as a request for our knowledge to be taught to you, or he he had moved to the US himself and was a private contractor.
ironore068 it is obvious that you really do not know what is going on.
So many people want to see the decline of the US...only to whine when they get what they want and realize that what they got is far worse than what they had.
I'm really surprised by the lack of intelligence taken to write this article... and some of the comments. Australia needs nuclear subs because they are in range of Chinese missiles? China and Australia have an incredibly strong relationship. Considering that Australia supplies China with 90% of it's coal, and has the second largest stock pile of uranium in the world behind Canada... China has been good friends with Australia for a long time. If China and America ever went to war, Australia would do what Sweden did in WW2... Sit back, take bribes and rake in the profits from both nations wanting help. Everyone in America seems to look at China as some evil communist state. Why not go to the country, before you judge. There is no supression, there is freedom of speech, they just don't get to vote about who is in power. Why not do a bit of research on communism and it's history?
... Yet somehow no freedom of the internet? How strange.
And you believe you do? I dare to write something that threatens the US...maybe the US President. We're all very aware that Big Brother is always watching.
It's also called control of information, the US does it too..except, we just get the media to do it. We didn't hear about the Marines shooting the Afghans for fun until the trial went through did we? I'm sure there's more than just that instance.
What a load of BS. Talking about the principle of upholding international country and people's rights. The US Govt are the biggest hypocrites on the planet. Oh, were you referring to the principle of not invading countries and spending ten years there destroying their land and their people on false pretenses? Were you referring to not locking up and torturing alleged suspects in a camp away from your land's court of law and judiciary process, without trial or any rights to legal representation (Gizmo Bay ring a bell)? Get lost USA. We don't want you or your stinking imperialism army and ideology on our Aussie land or anywhere near our peaceful neighbors. Go home.
Yet another US president preaching about 'playing by the rules'. This is funnier than watching a stand-up comedy.
What wars have we lost in the last decade? When you first come on CNN, I thought you had a special insight into the world.
You proved me wrong, thats why I no longer watch your show.
Good job President Obama! That's what a superpower is supposed to do...form alliance and build bridges where your presence can serve as a deterrent to aggresion. It is this sort of alliance that has helped us to win the Cold War.
This make no sense:
China doing business with aussie , and have never posed any kind of threat to them (not even to their Koala bear ) .
Now in return, they invite self claimed world police to guard them... from china???
It is understandable Vietnam or those philippines cry for help from US, but why those aussie?
I am chinese, but not among 50 cent army btw.
This also show US tend to show muscle whenever there is chance, becasue that is what left for american, war after war, years after years ... this country obviously DUI of military related industries.
"Losing wars"? lol
The US has been winning in Iraq and Afghanistan, especially in the former, and we just concluded a nearly perfect war with Libya. We still have fleets and troops deployed in places China can never hope to match, from Germany to South Korea, from Australia to Kuwait, from Italy to Djibouti and beyond, on every inhabited continent. Don't listen when people talk of America's "decline."
They are losing wars. Goodness.
Victory condition for Iraq: Find the WMDs, establish Democracy in a secure Iraq
Result: No WMDs found, pseudo-Democracy established in an unsecure Iraq, Insurgents still roam the lands and thousands of dead Marines. Forced retreat due to resistance from local population...nice worded as a "withdrawal".
Victory condition for Afghanistan: Dismantle and eliminate the Taliban
Result: Taliban still rampaging the lands, Osama killed. Thousands of Marines killed AND still present in a long drawn out war. Country not secure.
There's more than 1 way for America to decline...and from your perspective...it's all about the military. Well...guess what? It's not...there's also economic, political, influencial, etc. America may not decline militarily...but the rest...it is.
What I find amazing about President Obama's foreign policy agenda is the level of success he has been having in accomplishing his administration's foreign policy goals in comparison to his administration's domestic goals such as improving the economy. And the difference here is clear and that is the President is having more success with his foreign policy agenda simply because he doesn't have to rely on bi-partisan support from the rightwing extremists in congress or deal with roadblocks and policy delaying tactics. One can just imagine what would have been the chance of OBL still being alive today and continuing to threaten to destroy America had President Obama had to rely on a vote from the right to execute "Operation Gerronomo." Chances are that OBL would still be alive today and perhaps Awlaki too. And the reality is that if President Obama had waited for a vote from the right for military intervention in Libya, the reality is that Moammar Gadhafi would still be alive today, continuing to slaughter his people. Maybe if we were to send the GOP and their tea party for a spring break down under, perhaps we could create jobs and improve the American economy. Well, help is coming in 2012 when we start regaining control of both the House and Senate.
Wow alot of revisionist histories being spouted here. Amazing how so many quickly forget the role the US, its military and trillions of its tax dollars unquestionably kept the USSR from taking their countries without even firing a shot.
That said...the cold war is over. The EU collective is the largest economy in the world. China is both an emerging market and a growing economic power. It's long over due that the US back down from it's global peace keeping mission...let the EU take over, close the basses and bring our service men and women home.
Wow this guy is an idiot. The US has not lost any wars in the last decade. Sure – we have no interest in occupation and thus are removing our troops from Iraq but to say we lost that war is stupid. Same with the Afgan war. The US achieved its goal in both wars -removal of Saddam, the Taliban and Bin Laden's gang . I hate it when some liberal nutjob gets wars and occupations confused... I doubt I ever read a word this clown writes again. Pure media manipulation – based on complete biased BS. I wonder how many people actually believe what this fool writes… Raoul Heinrichs – a diplomat with a liar’s agenda!
Pssst....This guy may be a "nutjob" all right, but he's no "liberal". Somehow, you've got yourself twisted into a position where everything that sounds nuts to you must be "liberal". Tell you the truth, there is really very little "liberal" that remains in the American political system. That's not to say there's not all sorts of stuff you find disgusting, it's just that it doesn't have much to do with "liberal." a label that's decades old, inspires a bit of nostalgic endorsement from it's aging supporters and is bandied about by fear-mongering Republicans who are vying for the "moron" vote.
Allow me to ask: Why does this article sound as if war is going to break out tomorrow between China and Australia or China and the U.S? All what it talks about is missles, nuclear submarines, military basis, armies and military plans. This is way inflated and exaggerated unnecessarily. Or am I short sighted?
war monger talk
I say its a good thing that we have a base in Australia. I do not think that the US or Australia thinks that war is inevitable. They are just thinking ahead. Prevention is the best medicine.
The US Marines will be based within 3 Australian Bases just like they have been doing for decades. From the bases they go out to various areas for joint military exercises and which also involves a US Carrier Battle Group. All the latest is just a public relations show and the media and public blow things out of proportion.
Definitely not clever...definitely evil
What a lie....chinese people are not war mongers.Infact its the other way around and history has shown this.
I have lost respect for Obama and will not vote for him.
Keep buying Chinese because they love you. The nuclear weapons China has pointed at the United States don't really mean anything.
It would appear that a danger for Australia is to become in American imperialist ventures and politics, rather than what the article asserts is northeastern Asian politics. Australians should be angry about the invasion being launched by Obama via the U.S. Marines, with the needle being jabbed in slowly with a contingent of 250, soon to be stuck in more thoroughly with a deployment of 2500 U.S. Marines along with B-52 bombers and likely even stockpiles of cluster bombs, which supposedly otherwise soon will be banned by Australia's government. Even though Australia's economic future increasingly is becoming linked to that of Asia and especially China, U.S. presence in Australia ultimately may place Australia in conflict with China. With the U.S. governmental fiscal debt mounting by the second the U.S. is not in a position to bail out Australia if Australian relations with China deteriorate. Meanwhile despite Obama's pre-election promises to the contrary, the U.S. continues to pursue its Neocon objective of world domination even though that is bankrupting the country.
For decades the US has been invading Australia with thousands of Marines in rotating joint exercises. Carrier Battle Groups have even launched heaps of planes to attack targets within Australia's live fire designated areas. A contingent of 250 can come in advance to help the Australians prepare things in advance for the joint exercise which last for nearly 3 months. After the exercise the Americans can go home then the next rotation can arrive for the next joint exercise. Meanwhile a US contingent can stay back for a while to help the Australians clean things up after the exercise. Australia has a very good relationship with China and where China has known for decades about these joint exercises, and there still will be very good relations for many more decades.
For 45 years the United States stood against evil. The cold war we won and mankind should ever be grateful. It wasn't free in lives or treasure, but freedom isn't free. Each generation is called to defend our values. The Chinese are not war mongers, but rather have a different political ideology and strength is the best defense. History has shown this over and over to be true.
Chinas economy relies almost solely on the exported goods from their country...having a trade pact with almost all nations but china in that region is a hardline stance(finally)that you either play by the rules or have the attention of the strongest military in the world.
This is merely a chess move, a white pawn on an already white square. Australian ties to Western defence and British Commonwealth networks tilt it firmly away from true neutrality. The media trumps it up because it is part of an overall psychological soft power strategy to rattle Beijing to come to the table with terms more appealing to US interests. War is not the preferred outcome by either player. Soft power will be the name of the game for some time. The more sinister elements in the US regime seek to employ other measures than direct confrontation to contain and negate a rising power 'of non-white people.' First is to exploit the fact that China has a huge population to feed and keep happy. It doesn't take a genius to think of how to sabotage that. Second, exploiting the Indo-China rift to turn into an internecine war that eats up both nations is merely a matter of waiting for the right moment. The US can back any association of 'friendly' nations against China, with minimal contributions of men and arms. They can sit back and watch 'Asian kill Asian. Finally: Gene weapons have been manufactured, designed to specifically target Asian populations. A well designed false flag attack can disperse these biological munitions without trace back to the USA. Considering how many Asians the US has killed in the last half century, from napalm to nukes, and considering how their media still maintains a (ever so subtly) bigoted perception of Asians, it is not unthinkable they would continue to perpetrate genocide against them by whatever means necessary. A war where Asians kills Asians – that's Washington's wet dream.
Obama: "I'm not bush, I just like placing my military in places to provoke other nations into WW3"
well blacks do have a reputation for picking fight with others
Who typed that remark for you?
I think an appeasement strategy is the best approach for dealing with China. Appeasing nearly always leads to tyranny and thus, war. If we act weak, it will lull them into our trap. It is also the standard european approach, except this next time we should turn the tables on europe, dragging them into WW3 and making them pay their fair share for a change. I'm just sayin'
China now has the means, so it has returned to its historical viewpoint that IT(China) is the center of the world and that everybody else should be subservient to them. After all, all foreigners are "barbarians" in the Chinese language.
Your seriously siding with China and going as far as placing them on the "good" side????? The government that treat their country like a trash bin, doesn't care about it's people or it's enviroment?? America has flaws to be sure but I would live here before I would surrender myself over to China's rule. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about when you support China.
The Chinese are not warmongers ... just ask their political prisoners, those that endure their religious persecution, the Tibetan people, the Taiwanese, etc.
Expand big into Australia and relieve some of the burden from Guam.
What commie pinko American hating sack of crap tool wrote this? This sound like it was cooked up straight from China! Im so sick of hearing the U.S. is gonna fall and China is taking over...somebody should read their history....no communist or socialist government has ever survived, they all fall. China is out of space and out resources and is living on borrowed time.
This is a brilliant move by the US. There is very little doubt that Australia likes the Chinese to Buy and do not want to be bought by them. China is trying hard to sustain this rate of growth by expanding its supply options, which means a domination of the seas. The mere presence of the US in Australia will make all of Asia more secure and worry less about bullying from Beijing
testing
Will Russia stand by or join the game? like dejavu all over again.
The move makes perfect sense. Australia is the ONLY country to fight alongside the US in EVERY war since WWI. Google 'Pine Gap' and you'll see that the US has had a presence in Oz for a long time and there's about 1000,mostly CIA, employees in the middle of Oz. We have been one of your best buddies for a very long time. Australia also has a good relationship with China as she is reliant on a lot of our resources...natural gas etc. I hope the relationship grows. I've been Stateside for 22 years and there's not two similar naitons on the planet in many ways.
what would the aussie,s do if the chinese cancelled there cole and iron ore conrtacts, over the u.s sending in the marines.you will have no jobs i supose you can go back to making rotary clotheslines but i think the chinese have got that tied up ,with there new lighter and stronger model.we will see who is the best buddie then
For all you anti-US posters: I say forget Australia and S Korea and anyone else who trusts the Communist government in China and let em fend for themselves. When you are overrun with Communists, as you are now being overrun with Muslims, don't come crying here. Further, the US hasnot lost any wars in the last decade, having crushed the Iraqi army and routed the Taliban militarily. We accomplished in Afghanistan things the mighty Russian army could only dream about while it was getting its a** kicked. You don't like US, deal with them yourselves. Good luck.
Up your Yaksun! You need to do some research son. You'll find that even in Iraq, it was Australian forces that went in well before the US did. You'll find ASIO did the dirty work for the CIA in Chile and you'll find we've been the only one's helping you all the way. So watch you mouth son or you'll have no friends left...you've hardly got any now. Australia is under threat from no-one. You need to take a look at a map boy. Everything in Australia is at the bottom. To get to it, you not only have to make it to the top, but then you have cross thousands of miles of red dirt just to reach anything. Moron!
Back at ya, Queenie old girl. My a** yer lips. We DON"T NEED YOU. Or S Korea. Or Phillipines. Save the world – use yer mouth, girl. We love ya, but we don't need ya. Queen: I am not yer son,and don't want you as a friend. *I mean dat personally. No offense to Aussies who are not gay like dis pair of lips.
you're an idiot yakhead. Please get a shirt made with yaksun on it so If I ever see you I can teach you a lesson. I live over here.
In yer dreams, queenie. We realy must raise our entry standards.
Well said and absolutely corrent Queenslander!
I think Australia is behind occupy wall street
Nobody is behind Occupy Wall street that is why it is clever.
Sounds like the same maneuvers we were making 60 years ago with many of the same strategies and economical arguments to what wound up being strategic philosophies and military placements. I think we're naive to believe we know how China will react to the obvious strategic moves being made under the guise of strengthening international economic ties with countries who China doesn't consider a threat at the moment. The reaction may involve 'victimized' governments who may find themselves in need of 'support' militarily as a result of our perceived aggression through overt diplomatic programs. We would then either supply that support, and therefore, escalate; or not supply that support, and therefore abandon our partners after inferred protection.
This is the kind of action that has led to disaster in history and should be stopped immediately.
....I can't help but think Obama has played Risk and knows how badass Australia is.
I love the way President Obama is promising all these great and wonderful military interactions with our partners while at the same time making drastic cuts in our military forces and military budget. True, defense spending does need to be trimmed, but with the cuts required by Obama, and more if the "super committee" does not come up with more solutions, there will be no military left for these interactions.
Regardless of what size the military is they must train and practice to maintain and develop skills and preparedness for any contingency. With a friend the US can invade and the Australians can defend, then change that around. Just outside of China the US has a large force which trains and practices in that area. In the asian region they also can go to friends in Australia for that and which offers different things, including vast expanses of different terrain and climate which tactically can make a difference in exercises and wars. China may not like what that large US force is doing and has been doing for decades.
Obama put way too much faith in congress when he came up with that idea. He never wanted the automatic cuts to go into place, he was trying to motivate congress. He should know by now that congress really is that incompetent.
"the United States has spent the past decade losing wars and squandering power"
Squandering power maybe, but which wars has the US "lost"?
Have you heard of Vietnam.
Have you heard of the last four decades?
"The last decade loosing wars'. Hmmmm - lost me after that.
As I understand it from my Aussie marine friend, the Aussies wont voluntarily fight with Americans in the field because they "talk" and give their positions away. I have heard the same from other Australians too.
The US brings a Carrier Battle Group that has Planes and Marines. They attack Australia whilst Australia defends and in the process the US might loose or win. Some of the exercises are joint where they work together in attack and defence. Its all planned so both gain experience and practice from the exercises. It takes time to prepare and clean up afterwards, so some US are allways here to help Australians to do that till the next Carrier Battle Group and Marines arrive.
To add. Australia is getting the new F-35 Stealth Fighter and they might give the US Fleets a warm reception when they arrive for future exercises. Well it's no good having exercises against someone you can easily walk over. Think about it and these exercises with Australia have been going on for decades.
To add. The US wants the Joint Defence Facility Pine Gap in Australia to keep on functioning. Beside the US NSA and CIA are the equivalent in Australians working beside them. There is only a handfull of such facilities in the world and Australia is a prime location for one. The US certainly do want Pine Gap to keep on functioning and well defended.
pmcdonald, it's clear that you and Raoul Heinrichs are not military strategists.
Having a forward deployment serves many purposes, not just singularly intended as a buttress against China.
Because China has money and largess' does not mean countries feel comfortable being too cozy. especially considering China's penchant for ignoring rules and taking what they want.
Isn't it all academic anyway because both sides have nukes? Any war would last only a couple of hours.
What wars have we lost in the last decade? Iraq is now a democracy, sure it was a mess for a while, but we destroyed all the military opposition pretty darn fast. Same with afghanistan. And look how long Gadhafi lasted.
"In Australia the arrival of the Great White Fleet on 20 August 1908 was used to encourage support for the forming of Australia's own navy"
This article is a painfully immature and poorly thought out emotional piece. The author, with all due respect, has done no research and clearly has never read any detailed military history written. He doesn't understand what is going on, and makes the quite incredible claim that:
"In this regard, Washington is being clever. It is taking full advantage of Australia’s current strategic dependence, locking in Canberra’s political and military support further, thereby minimizing the potential of any future Australian realignment."
So, agreeing to accept 2500 marines is an irrevocable act of alignment. I don't think so. In fact, the way this is likely to be seen in china is that the US is panicking about losing influence in Australia after the coming sovereign default crash, and is doing its best to win political party support in Australia by providing 2500 marines worth of US government funding to Australian party members who can do as they wish with such money.
The chinese are likely to think that if 2500 marines is the number, then two things are certain:
1. America is REALLY broke, and trying to buy their existing friends.
2. Australians are REALLY cheap, and for sale.
It is a cascading blunder, because it shows a supreme contempt for the doctrine that economic power is military power.
By the way, let me tell you all how it will go down in Australia, if push comes to shove over the USA.
Our politicians would certainly sell the USA out to the chinese, if the price was half way right. In a flash. For a dime. We have A grade politicians.
But even if they did, the ordinary australians would soon enough shoot em, and end up fighting alongside ordinary Americans.
The US bombs China's coastal cities and occupies Shanghai and the US homeland has been attacked – how this all got started – have a look at http://battleofhouston.blospot.com.
http://battleofhouston.blogspot.com/
I like Toby's view. The US Hill would sooner sell out to Chinese interests then take any meaningful steps to fixing the US. Truth be told, this has already happened on the debt issue. Do you think the US DoD spending hounds are going to get a vote during the debt negotions? The Hill has turned into a dreamland where spending favors are the sole currency used to buy and retain power.
One adjective that defines Simon Wilby is smart. He is the CEO of Smart Power, Inc. He developed The Smart One, a revolutionary lithium battery powered by solar for cell phones and The Smart Juice which is energy with the same principle for lap tops.