Editor's Note: Make sure to tune in Sunday at 10a.m. or 1p.m. EST for Fareed Zakaria GPS on CNN.
By Fareed Zakaria, CNN
Dozens of Egyptians were killed in a soccer stadium brawl this past week. This was the deadliest outbreak of violence since Hosni Mubarak was ousted one year ago. The violence didn't stop at the stadium and it begs the question: What has Egypt gained since its revolution? Take a step back and ask: What has the Arab Spring achieved in the last year? Has people power failed the people? What in the world is going on?
In Egypt, the military might be more entrenched than before. Meanwhile a quarter of the seats in parliament have gone to a group of ultra conservative Islamists. Only 2% have gone to women. Or consider Libya. It's veering towards anarchy. The local militias that helped topple Moammar Gadhafi have reneged on a pledge to give up their arms.
Look at Tunisia. You'll remember that a fruit vendor there sparked the Arab Spring by setting himself on fire. Well, now there are reports of many more such incidents of self-immolation. From Tunisia, to Egypt, to Libya, democracy has unleashed turmoil and long-suppressed expressions of Islamic fundamentalism.Perhaps, some will say, the Arab world didn't fully understand what it was getting into. Perhaps, others will argue, after years of living under tyranny, Arabs just don't know how to rule themselves.
I say, let's look at some history. Democracy has never been easy. Consider what so many democratic revolutions looked like - a year or two after they started. Take America: After the revolutionary war, the country was in economic, political, and social turmoil. By 1779, inflation was at close to 400%. Per-capita income had halved between 1774 and 1790. Remember the armed Shays' Rebellion of 1786? It was seen by many as evidence that people power would go awry and upend the union.
Or consider France. After the onset of the French Revolution things got really bad. The symbol of the revolution became not liberté, égalité, fraternité but the guillotine.
Or look at India, the world's largest democracy. It welcomed freedom in 1947 after centuries of foreign rule. And yet the ensuing months brought with it mass riots over Partition, the deaths of millions of Hindus and Muslims. Five months after freedom, the father of the nation, Mahatma Gandhi, was assassinated. In Indonesia, in the 1990s, a year after Suharto fell, a hapless man, BJ Habibie became president amidst economic collapse and rising Islamic radicalism. His presidency lasted exactly 17 months.
Now we remember the Eastern European revolutions of 1989. But those are really the exceptions that prove a much more messy rule. The process of becoming democratic has always been chaotic. Mistakes are made. Lives are lost. And in the most dire moments, people have always doubted that there would be a good outcome. We need to keep that in mind when we assess the Arab Spring.
Democracy might be messy. It's certainly complicated. It takes a while to consolidate. But for the first time in perhaps a millennium, the Arab people are taking charge of their own affairs. So let's cut them some slack. It's only been a year.
Make sure to tune in Sunday at 10a.m. or 1p.m. EST for GPS on CNN. For more of my thoughts throughout the week, I invite you to follow me on Facebook and Twitter and to visit the Global Public Square every day. Also, for more 'What in the World' pieces, click here.
 |
Post by: |
© 2012 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
| Advertising practices | Advertise with us | About us | Work for us | Help
Well said Fareed.
Fareed, you should have mentioned how China and Russia have been evolving since their revolutions. Their transition from centuries of autocratic rule to state capitalism. Their people still have a long way to go. Once they embark on the path of democracy, they will be on the right track.
Indeed France's histroy since the Revolution in 1789 till World War 1914 saw decades of political turmoil and should serve as an example, how tortuous the path to democracy is. Yet with the Arab Spring it will be another scenario. Culture and Religion play a decisive role, how a country and its people develop.
Democracy starts from each individual heart of fear of the All Mighty God Jesus Christ who teaches us to be servants to all (neighbors). In short, to love God, we need to accept the fact that all human are equals because as the Bible said: Human are created in His image.
I challenge anyone to show me these fundamentals of democracy within your non-Christian belief.
Zakaria. You are wrong. I lived in Arab Muslim part of the world for many years. There is no way Arab Muslims ever live in the democracy. Some of them want western things (money, girls etc...) but not democracy. Zakaria did you ever live in Arab country? To brutal, to extreme, hysterical and hateful is the every day norm. AND they attacked Mubarak not because he was dictator but because he was to normal and not projecting fear or/end masculinity.
Regards.
To j. von hettlingen: you are incorrect to say that all nations must follow the US European mode of democracy. Every nation and culture has its own unique, and will evolve following the unique nature of that society. China would not turn into US style of government, which Americans think is the universal norms. India would not. The whole Asia would not.
China and Russia are neither rive nor controlled by muslim clergy men.
China and Russia are neither driven nor controlled by muslim clergy men.
to j. von hettlingen: I myself admire French revolution, but for one peculiar detail - the guillotine.
Do you know that all the executions starting with Lois XVI and Antoinette, and all the way to Napoleon III were performed by the same man?
Another peculiar detail is that the famous slanted shape of the guillotine blade was invented by ...Luis XVI himself.
Yes, the dynasties of Executioner of France are as ancient as the dynasties of kings, and apparently lasted longer: the guy who performed the last execution in 196x can trace back his family into the ancient time.
The Executioner who chopped off the head on Lous XVI was also the executioner during the reign of Lous XVI. Lous XVI himself was bored from time to time and to escape his boredom he practiced the art of engineering. So he one day he suggested that the head can be severed quicker and with cleaner cut id the blade in made not as crescent shape, but at a constant angle as we know it today. They made it this way and gave it a try. First on a pig and it worked flawlessly giving professional clean cut. The pig did not complain. Then they tried it on a couple thieves (or crooks, I dont remember). It worked so flawlessly, that some spectators among the cheering crowd even complain about the lack of spectacle. It looks like a medical procedure rather than a punishment.
Lois XV was the client number 3 or 4 (depending whether or not you count the pig). When Jacobins approached the Executioner he first asked whether they had Court Decision, and after they replied no, he rejected them. Then Jacobins put together the Revolutionary Tribunal which, after some deliberation, resulted in proper paperwork to satisfy the Executioner. This tile he gave Lois XVI a clean and professional cut.
Then the revolutionaries found differences among themselves. At first Jacobins decided that Girondists are no longer their friends. So they prepared a proper paperwork and approached the Executioner again. And again. And again. Then Danton. Then some Jacobins desided that other Jacobins are not true Jacobins and must go. Robispierre himself did not get a clean and professioal cut because he was accidentally shot.
Then Napolen raise an fall and raise and fall again. Restoration of monarchy. Napoleon III. The Executioner of France outlived all of them while doing his job routinely and professionally. And he always make sure that whoever head he was chopping off, it was accompanied by a proper paperwork.
I think a culture limits freedom.
If enough people who wanted freedom have been oppressed long enough, the remaining people cannot even imagine what it is, much less figure out how to attain it.
The net result is that whenever there is a 'revolution' it simply means that the next organized group on deck, which is also limited in their thinking, takes over.
That means, during our lifetimes, we should expect police states to be enemies, oppressive religious states to act nearly insane, and thus we cannot save them from themselves.
Samlv, Revolutions, if it is a genuine revolution, always means that the society cannot continue on the path it was going before, and therefore it is a manifestation of mental bankruptcy of the ruling class who was in power just before the revolution, basically inability to adapt and reform itself.
However, one should distinguish between genuine and fake revolutions. French revolution of 1789, Russian revolution of 1917, and Chinese of 1949 were genuine in sense that they had fundamental causes and deep reorganization of society afterwards. Also long lasting effects. Examples of fake revolutions are the events in Russia in 1991 (although this may be somewhat debatable). Perhaps the most classical example of fake revolution is the "orange revolution" in Ukraine 2004-5: there were no causes, no goals, and no lasting effects other than basically 5 years of wasted time taken out from their economic development. What we observe now as Arab spring is also fake because at most these event always start as protest against "dictator" (who, in some cases is himself a revolutionary of the past) and replace him with nobody knows what. Then aster some period of turmoil it settles down by installing a leader who eventually becomes just a younger version of the one deposed. Again, these events start without formulation of clear goals to change the way how the society operates.
The facebook revolutions are a bit new technology, because to organize a revolution in the past one needs at least a charismatic leader. This is no longer a requirement with the facebook technology. Obviously it greatly reduces the effort and expences needed to organize a fake revolution.
There is also a major psychological aspect of it: revolution, whether real of fake is always an act of collective insanity and an act of going against the instinct of self-preservation. Adrenalin. Society is always stupider than the individuals of which it is consists of. While human behavior is hard to predict and describe in simple term, predicting (and manipulation) behavior of a crowd is actually not so sophisticated and statistically more certain. In physics it is called Bose condensation. Basically individuals in the crowd tend to do what their immediate neighbors do. Then with proper agitation one might suppress various instinct, including acting against own fears, individual interests, and even instinct of self-preservation in the extreme cases. This incredible feeling is sometimes called freedom.
The problem happen a little bit later, but never too late: typically after a revolution happens the newly installed elites face the problems they cannot solve, mainly of economic nature escalating to the extreme degrees, a such as hunger, massive unemployment die to the stoppage of economy, and/or lack of basic civilian order, lawlessness and crime. This is what we observe right now in all Arab spring countries, but the great revolutions of the past - French, Russian, Chinese - did not escape this either. Radical situation requires radical measures, so the success or failure depends on whether the new elite has guts to respond and implement drastic measures - terror, confiscation of food from some to feed others, expropriations of property... you name it. Alternatives - basically not so many, just to fail and die.
One can ask what about "velvet" revolutions? My answer is that it is basically the same illness, but in lighter form. If you have luxury to afford it, of course. Luxury in this context means that your economy was not too bad before the revolution, and the oppressive regime you are trying to topple was kind of mild and not too brutal. Lets see how it works... Vaslav Havel was first elected as president of Chekhslovakia by Parliament made of 100% communists, who basically invited him to topple their own regime. And the previous communist dictator (as we call him afterwards), Janosh Kadar (remember him?) was not too a bad person either. So the amature Vaslav became polular president. Of course, economy was deteriorating because everybody was busy enjoying freedom, eventually Checks did not get alone with Slovaks and the country was split into two. And all of them even learn a few new things they never heard before, unemployment, for example, non-free medicine and education. Freedom is not free, freedom should be fought for, isn't it?
The leader of another velvet revolution, Lech Walesa, decided even to get his country through "shock therapy" because otherwise the revolution would be too velvet and too boring.
I guess the easiest and cheapest way to reach the feeling of freedom is to get a bottle of vodka and drink it all at once. After consuming 0.5 litre the ultimate feeling of freedom is guaranteed. But please, do not drive while feeling free. This may be dangerous.
Why are you (USA) getting loan from china. A non democratic govt is giving loan to democratic country.who is on the top, democracy or dictatorship.
The Muslim Caliphate that is developing in the Middle East is a serious long term threat to the West. You simply cannot ignore Fundamentalist Islam’s primary goal of spreading Islam globally and converting or killing all infidels. As these people start controlling more and more of the Middle East we are going down a very dangerous path.
No one knows what will happen. The radical Islamist will definitely try to sieze power. I doubt that they can achieve such unity when you look at the bloody war between the Shiites and Sunnis in Iraq. Unfortunately peace usually only happens after much bloodshed: look at how much bloodshed happened in Europe with WW I and WW II.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Islamic fanatics are beginning to take control of a very large part of the middle-east.
Every autocratic ruler who has been deposed, has now been replaced by those who think that Islam is the only way and all non believers should be converted or whacked. Is their any wonder why Israel won't simply abandon land to the so called Palestinians for the promise of "peace", They saw and experienced what happened when they uprooted over 9000 of their own people and left Gaza to the Palestinians w/out requiring the Palestinians to give up anything at all. Their only requiremnt was for the Palestinians to stop shootng at Israelis, but that just proved to be more than they could handle, so once Israel left, the muslims destroyed and vandalized every structure left by the Jews and then proceeeded to launch rockets and mortars across the border into the Israeli city of Sderot. The world must stand fast and never let this plague if Islamic fundementalism take over the earth, or it will be the end of the world.
Amen to that, brother. Everyday, everywhere, some tragedy occurs regarding Islam. And our elites and the MSM just look away chattering: Islam is a religion of peace, Islam is a religion of peace! Stuck beyond stupid!
CS – I agree with some of what you say, but in WW1 and WW2 there was only ONE focus – a common enemy- Germany.
In the Middle East the problem is tribalism; cultural groups; religiously fanatical groups; a growing persecution of native Christians; an almost insane hatred of Israel AND wanting a western lifestyle which is at odds with their whole way of life.
They are, by nature FEUDAL which makes democracy nearly impossible.
Fareed – you are judging the Arab Spring as a westener. You must think like an Arab to give a true picture. You wouldn't expect comment on American policies from a, say – African or Chinese [who have always lived in those countries], because they haven't lived in America.
Chimo – Great post. Thank you.
Probably you, like myself said all this at the beginning when Obama was encouraging and arming the Arab Spring in Libys and Syria etc.
To encourage 10 nations to revolt simultaneously was not only foolhardy but criminal. But one thing is certai – it isn't going to get any better.
Caliphite come from GOD and not from people.Nobody can develop it.Don't worry.
The Arab Spring has ckracked open the door to representative government. Ten years from now will be soon enough to ask what has been achieved. Recreating government is messy and usually violent and this will prove to be the case with the Arab Spring.
Jack – that's too simple. In 10 years time M.E, countries will ALL be fundamentalist with Sharia law, subjugation of women and persecution of those who dare to stray. You're looking at a western scenario – that might work. But in the M.E. no chance.
And I truly wish I could see it working. But no, definitely no chance.
Well said? The man's a fool!! The Shay's rebellion was nothing but a minor disturbance which showed that the central government didn't have the power necessary to control inner affairs. That's all. Democracy here was really very smooth. I don't know what this guy is talking about but he certainly doesn't understand history or just took the Shay's event out of context. Do your homework next time!!
This guy doesn't understand (or he is flat out lying) – Islam & Democracy – Oxymoron. Fareed lacks the "oxy" part
Fareed should have posed the better question: Can Islamic countries be democracies? Islam doesn't allow for freedom of speech, equality, a secular government, and numerous other important parts of a free and democratic society.
Good post Mike. I would like to know where Fareed got the idea that the Arab spring was about democracy? Overthrowing corrupt governments isn't always about democracy. In the M.E., it's more likely to be about Sharia law. Iran didn't become a democracy after it ousted the Shah.
I think all of you idiots should just shut up and go to the entertainment section, leave the political stuff to smarter users.
Majority of you don’t know in Islam, and whom does know they know only few from media garbage; you should go and read in Islam and what Muslims scalars have written and then you will be suppressed by the beauty of the religion. Now back to Muslims countries majority of you they connect these countries by Arab, in fact only 20% of Muslims in world are Arab and rest of them are not Arab such as Melisa, Indonesia, Albania and many others. The Arab countries are not 100% Muslims some of them are Christians as in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, or Jew as in Morocco.
Twenty four hundred years ago a Greek philosopher said, democracy is at its best when the middle class is the majority. That might apply for a dictatorship as well. For the Arab world to succeed the upper class have to work very hard to bring the middle class up where they have a stake in the system. Religion never fed anyone it only united people to form a clan and a country. In most cases all religions where used by the powerful to control the population. In the western world religion has lost its magic and it is creating panic on church leaders and politicians since the both used each other.
for their own interest. In the mean time humans will solve their problems as the have for thousand of years, that is killing each other.
In sociology it is suggested that it takes a minimum of 10 years to radically change the political system of a government and the accepted way of life for its people. I believe that's why the US involvment of the conflict in the middle east lasted almost exactly 10 years. Though upon seeing the results of that, and the current prediction that natives will again have control of the government by 2013/14, it seems that it would take a considerable amount time to leave the Afghani people with a stable government. You may have to do it for an entire generation for certain we will have to provide some sort of aid or relief. We'll see though'
It would take countless generations to civilize Afghans.
Democracy is based on liberty. To say that the Arab spring is a democratic movement is outrageous. The Arab spring has revealed the true face of islam, a tyrannical theocratic system of rule. Intolerance = "Mohammed is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (48:29, Quran)
Oh yes, "Amir" you're quite a knowledable person...
Unfortunately, the Arab people in Egypt are NOT "taking charge of their own affairs" as they blame the police for their own lack of self-restraint.
Yes, and you keep forgetting the police in Egypt are a product of over 30 years of Mubark rule – who was a major puppet of the USA. Being a puppet of the USA or the West will not make Egypt a better place. Egypt needs to control its own destiny. For God sake, Egypt has one of the World oldest Civilization.
Remove police from an alcohol shop at night and see American people taking charge
Democracy does indeed take time.....the problem is the arab spring in no way resembles any semblance of democray
In this case very very wrong Fareed! All the democracies which Fareed has mentioned were not driven neither by religion nor by a political agenda to kill every one else on earth. Not even in the next 50 years will any of the muslim countries accept democracy, because the basics laws of Islam and the fundamentals of this political movements is against equality, fraternity and liberty. There will never be a libertarian muslim country in the world. I am always amazed how you manipulate historical information to defend a society that seeks to eliminate everyone else.
I agree with you to – Fareed Zakaria is very smart and well educated. I respect him very much. Forgive me, if I have missed it – but the only thing he should have mentioned in the article – that the West should really leave those Arabs alone to rebuild the way they want it and not the way the West wants them to build.
muslims cannot build anything... they only get jealous for not being smart and go about destroying (koran.. mohammed.... all r just excuses)
Where is Adams? Where is Bolivar? Where is Gandhi? Without great leadership at our critical moments, we're all just rabble.
There is a point sorely missed from the beginning of this project namely "the Arab Sprıng" (in by opinion the project start date was Sept 11 filed under medium term). I did more or less supported the project with view of an assimilation and understanding between Muslim and Christian religions would lead to lesser fights fought under the pretext of "RELIGION" . But the project failed from the start because the constructors of the project did not EVEN take the time to study the Muslim religion (which actually prooved the points of the terrorists in a waw) . This was not a project to find a point in comman. This still stinked of the middle ages and of the Crusaders.The witel point they missed in creating missurrection in various Arabic states while showing Turkey as the "GOOD GUY WITH WHITE HAT" was that Muslim religion also has its variations. And the so advanced western information system can not just code them under: a) Islam... Because there are different Muslim countries with a beliefe more dominant than the one in Turkey. I kind'o find this ignorance funny. Some big important authorities did not do their homework right. But it is not funny at all, Since people are dieing for yor WISH of an arab spring. Bye the way thanks for the cooperation
Remember the book named Animal Farm?...Pigs are mor equal than others...? Well Muslimd do not eat pigs. There must be a wise decision behind it. And remember Ibsen saying blaa bla bla. I save the ideological aspect to my meditation. But I must state that this attempt on Arabic Countries to give them a "ARAB SPRING" will (what am I sayind "is") giving their voters a ground to concider. And wisely so.
Fareed, why don't you peddle this BS downtown Bombay?!!
Fareed, you are way off base on this one. The "Arab Spring" has no comparison to western democratic revolutions. The philosophical under-pinnings in the west were based on equality and liberty. Separation of church and state, and even Marxist repression of religious freedom, was concerned with how humans live in this world. Islam is the under-pinning of these revolutions. Iran already ran the experiment against Palavi. That is what this gets. The Spring is merely a springboard to theocracy, and will remain so until the minds of the masses are turned from lauding the likes of the Hidden Imam to a philosophy of tolerance and freedom. There are few seeds of this in the Middle East. Only in Israel can a Muslim go to the Mount, a Christian to the Holy Sepulchre or the stations, and a Jew to the Wall.
Without the essences or fundamentals of human right within the culture, Arab Spring = Arab Chaos.
If USA or any democracy nation losing the essences or fundamentals of human right within the culture, democracy will fail just the same.
Christian Bible is the only foundation of democracy; best example: Indian democracy is the biggest joke ever.
The Chinese are on the right track:
1. Stay with the ancient system when the people are not ready with democracy.
2. Today Chinese Christians are estimate about 40% of US population; when these "40% " are more Biblical mature, only then China will be ready for real democray.
Spoken like a Paki.
Christian Bible is a foundation of democracy? Really? Should I make you a list of South American Dictators – all devout Catholics or will you do your homework yourself and try to deal with your well washed brains for once?
It depends upon how you define democracy. The U.S. is a nation that was built on the backs of slave labor. Even once slavery was abolished workers were often essentially slaves, not paid in U.S. currency but in monopoly money created by the employer to only be spent in the employer's camp. Black American's officially counted as 3/5 of a person. For the longest time, wives were often essentially property of men, lacking the right to vote or legal recourse for abhorent behavior by men. It was not until relatively recently that minorities were treated as equals in the eyes of the law, and there are still social struggles. It's a long, long road, and we are still not there. I doubt we'll ever truly be there, but we continue to work toward a more perfect union. If we ever stop fighting for and expanding equality across the board, democracy is lost.
The west's desire to spread democracy and human rights is a total farce. Care to guess why colonialism (an euphemism for tyranny, racism, and oppression) ended? Was it because of some enlightenment and goodness that swept across the colonial powers in a blessed moment OR that it became economically unaffordable to maintain grip militarily?
Even today the true concept of democracy is found least in western powers. A true democracy is all-inclusive irrespective of race or gender or geographic locale. The closest thing we have towards that, as dysfunctional as it is, is the UN, and look how badly the US population mocks the UN. See if the USA is willing to merge in a truly giant democracy with India or China and the answer will be invariably no, we don't want to share power with real people that might move our capital from Washington to New Delhi or Beijing.
You really think the UN is a democracy when there are only certain countries with veto powers?
The fundamentals of human rights can only be learned in a democratic system. Remember the U.S. began with slavery. As Fareed says, it takes time.
Rich – you've gotta be kidding!!!! It's only a few years since Americans were forcibly sterilizing people they considered to be sub-human – like coloured people; people who, not only had a low I.Q , but were POOR to boot. How much time does it take????????????
Who will teach these.The democratic rulers don't let open schools in their region because they will lose election if people become educated. Who will open these schools, Mr bush.
Amato: Dislike .. the chaos we are witnessing nowadays is one tenth of the chaos n brutality we witnessed after the frence revolution!!!!!
We will rule once we get past this crucial stage!
Different religion produces different result.
I do hope the best for Arab Spring, maybe it will persuade people to do research why it work in Christian countries and not so well in non-Christian countries.
I can point out 10 "Christian" countries where following the bible has failed them but I'm sure your ears are closed so no point debating you.
Why don't you then, Bobby? Are you afraid that being specific in your claim would force an honest debate, rather than just letting you be derisive and feel smug?
shouldnt you be brousing FOX NEWs
Bobby – I can show you 10 Christian countries where the governments and people have failed the messages of the Bible .
Abraham Lincoln went to a dinner. At the end the host said grace. He said "God is on our side."
The host got a round of applause – Lincoln was silent.
The host said "Don't you agree, Sir , that God is on our side?"
Lincoln said "I am more concerned with who in this nation is on GOD'S side." This really happened. Lincoln was a good man.
I think that says it all, yes? God be with you and with us all in the tough times ahead.
It is fine to be a true believer in your religion/God or to believe that it is the only "true" religion/God, so long as you can't impose your belief on others. There are plenty successful democracies which have a majority christian population, but the reason why they are successful is not because they are Christian, but because they are secular and have separated their personal religious beliefs from the laws and policies of the State. It could be said that countries that have Islam as the State religion, cannot be democratic because their religion trumps all other secular laws that are vital for a democracy to exist.
@ vs101
Question: Why are Christian nations can separate their personal religious beliefs from the laws and policies of the States, while it is impossible for countries that have Islam?
The answer: People in Christian believers or not are brought up with Christian values and Christian culture.
Correction:
@ vs101
Question: Why are Christian nations can separate their personal religious beliefs from the laws and policies of the States, while it is impossible for countries that have Islam?
The answer: People in Christian nations believers or not are brought up with Christian values and Christian culture.
You are mixing papers my friend!!
No need to push religion into this .. every one will defend his own!!
Let's just be realistic and discuss the main issue here!! No need to go off the main subject!
Whether the arguments are leftover or rightful, at the end, it's all about better economy and better jobs.
So, why the killing happened?
Well, we are all Social-Animals. None of US are perfect Human beings.
However, the Arab spring is unusually GONE WITH THE WIND, that started blew from Tunisia.
Zakaria, from animals to plants, each one lives according to its sorroundings. You can not force a donkey for example to live like a lion or vice versa. You can not impose life style on anybody, each one has its own. What western countries do not know or pretend not to know is that people from other parts of world has brain too. We have different needs also. It doesnt matter who is in big office, if your daily life and needs are ok then there is no problem, if you have a female or male president is ok as long as they do what they are supposed to. If you have a president there for 100 years but doing good job, there is no problem.The problem is we have presidents who are commited to their people and nations but not doing things western countries want them too, or do not serve their interest then he will be labeled dictator, tyrany all those bad names. That guy who set himself on fire did not want to change president, he wanted good life, job for his living, but just because Western leaders got tired of the president then he was a bad guy and stayed for too long. Libya did not have any problems caused for not having elections after every three or four years but because The government was not in western countries interests the president was dictator, tyrany , murderer and his family members bad, bad , bad....Zakaria, governments are like fmily, what is good to your family can not necessarly be good to other family. So interpretation of democracy varies among nations, not only a que on balot box or women participations. And just ask western countries is realy changing of leaders means democracy???? You have been westernised alot, you no longer see things in their right perspective.
He has to say whay his readers want to hear. I like your post. I am pretty sure that there are unseen forces behind this "revolution" that started without a "leader', right in the middel of the term of our one time president. The results of the revolution so far shows what their intent was – Clue- Any ruler who is secular and non -Sunni will be ousted in the old Kalifate.
While it is possible to have a dictator who is talented and benevolent, you can't get around the fact that everybody dies eventually. When a bad one comes around, and most of them are bad, each one can undo the work of a hundred 'good' dictators. Dictatorship destroys civil society and turns neighbor against neighbor by making many people complicit in the governments crimes, only keeping them in check with force. The only path back to civil society is through democracy. With perserverance, people can learn to trust one another again, and the rewards are enormous. Not only are you able to merely survive, but set your own path and live your dream.
Zakaria...The Greeks and the Romans practiced it for some time before facing hindrance from Caesar and Christianity The renaissance got rid of it but these Arabs had more freedom before Islam. This religion of peace is not actually a religion but a combination of political ideology similar to Mao's red book. In their eyes they see it as a political religious party given by god almighty. I am surprised that Zakaria as a muslim failed to see that.
ignorant....dont judge Islam for what arabs do. You never judge Catholics for MAFIA or DRUGS CARTELS activities while majority of them are catholics.
We don't – we judge Islam on what Muslims do, and what they fail to do. And the opinion that is taking hold after careful consideration, is that Islam is an abhorrent ideology. Honor killings, forced conversions and intolerance of other faiths is NOT restricted to Arab countries, but are widely practiced in mostly Mustlim ones. Take responsibility.
WE only judge Islam by the Korhan. Have you read it lately??Sahih International
They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" Is this what we do not know, or what you don't dare say.
By this standard, judging Christianity by the Bible also yields some pretty abhorrent results.
Greek and Roman republic was not democracy that you see today – don't delude yourself. Their "republics" survived just the same way how a Feudal state could survive as a "republic" because all the chieftains and the rich men will be in it together to protect themselves. In ancient India also there were "Janapathas", ie republics made of feudal chiefs. If you follow that line, Iran is definitely a democratic republic.
I agree with Fareed, Democracy will take time. I mean as much as we want a fast, swift, change with progress and results, it will not always happen this way because there are so many issues to work out and to fix. I believe we have to wait and see, they're the ones in charge and whatever happens, it is up to them. We will always be around and they can ask us for help but it is up to them to take charge and move forward with their affairs. It never seems to end does it. (slight chuckle)
Any action taken by America will be considered an act of the infidels.
Yea give them some slack, they are muslims after all. They are still stuck in the 14th century.
I was just watching this movie 'Rise of the Planet of the Apes', at least I thought so, until I noticed the news channel logo.
APPLICATION DOWNLOAD
Let us not forget that in any democracy, there are always radical, corrupt, and just downright no gooders looking for an opportunity to exploit the situation. Our present predicament in this country is one such example. A successful democracy must stand against such radical elements because they usually lead to the same tyranny as before. The Jacobins in the French revolution for example.
Coming From a Pakistani Native,,, im a little Impressed
"Only in America" how are your book sales goin?
Fareed Zakaria is a native of Mumbai, India and not Pakistan.
The arab spring is a joke, they are exchanging old dictators with new and improved dictators!!
a joke !? no it's not
we try to be free from what u did see the history to know what happened to Arab by Europeans and Americans
u should be Embarrassing
When YOU say u, you should keep in mind that individual people should not be confused with the action of a government. That's like me calling you a terrorist because I think you are a muslim.
Just look at the American Revolution, or the American Civil War; democracy is messy, and does take time, especially if you have never had it.
Based on the current state of politics in this country, we still haven't found the right balance between people rights and the rolw of business in government (fascism) and the role of money and power. We may never get this resolved before we lose our Democrarcy forever.
What BS, it is the writer wishfull thinking but not the reality.
The trouth and humanic behavior that sets people free. Arabs are still beliving mambo jambo stories and follows conspirices tells. They are replacing bad regime with worser one, just like it happened in 1979 in Iran – same story, US helped toppeling the Iranian Shah (which was currapted and bad) and got the Aytollas regime that wants to rule the world with Islamic law.
When the time would come that we would deal with reality as it is and not from a wishfull un-realisic agenda. At the end of the day, a realistic aproach is the one that would help the Arabs get a better and democratic life in the mid-long run.
i wanna say to those Cursing Islam ...... You are ignorant
u don't know any thing about Islam ..... try to know and u will be Muslims
and btw What is happening now is forbidden in Islam
you just say and u don't know
and who say america is democracy think again about what u this
Why is it non-Muslims must always understand Islam, but Muslims NEVER must understand Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.? Perhaps because reading any religious text but the Koran is forbidden, and you're not allowed to leave Islam anyway – at least not with your head still attached.
If u own a jewel, then why would u search for glass!!!!!
Ignorance is bliss, eh Ahmed? If you're too foolish to know any better, that doesn't mean you know best!
It is allowed to leave Islam and there a hundreds of such examples at the time of prophet Mohammad and Quran says there is no compulsion in religion.It is allowed to read bible and thousands of Muslims have read that and even better understood it than Christians. It is the bible who tells us about coming of prophet Mohammad in Arabia and Jews came to arabia to live there earlier as they were waiting for a prophet near Mecca.Go and read bible carefully yourself.
The choice to be non violent, does not take time. To ask the world to cut them slack is to ask us to turn a blind eye while they kill any one they want. It is the exact wrong thing to do. To suggest that we just sit by idle is to support the killing . If it were copts killing muslims there would be no call for slack from you, no justification that it takes time, what takes time is killing all the undesirables. Non violence is an instantaneous choice.
And yet... we haven't chosen non-violence yet, either. Sure, maybe in civil society, but our nation still sees the military as its most effective tool of foreign policy.
Mr. Zakaria,
the Muslim brotherhood, Democratic, really?.......come on....don't be naive.
Think about it, he is asking us to turn a blind eye and accept killing as part of a non violent movement. All it is is ethnic cleansing . By asking us to give them slack he is supporting it.
The limited understanding some have of democracy doesn't factor in any protections from tyranny of the majority. That is why democracy will fail in the Middle East; most will vote for rule by sharia, which contradicts freedom of choice.
It seems to me that Sharia law is very conceptually similar to Rick Santorum's vision of an America in which all laws coincide with the Christian Bible.
In the end, the failings of the Middle East have never been an issue rooted in religion. "It's the economy, stupid" isn't just a catchy campaign slogan. If you'll look at a map of the world, the most violent and dysfunctional regions are also generally the poorest. You conveniently ignore the fact the sub-Saharan Africa has even worse problems than the Middle East, and yet is home to significant if not majority Christian populations in many nations.
Africa doesn't have oil, either. And you can't deny that many of Africa's problems are caused by Muslims (the Janjaweed in Sudan, Boko Haram in Nigeria, pirates and al-Shabaab in Somalia etc.) Sure, so-called Christian militias have their share of blood (Lord's Resistance Army in Congo), but neither are they actively seeking nuclear weapons or, for the most part, exporting terror abroad.
I think he DOES mean it! Is he supposed to be a credible political commentator or what????????
I'm from Eastern Europe. During the communist period, there was low crime ration, free education, free health care and no organized crime or unemployment. Now 20 years after revolution, country is influenced by corrunpted politions who serves to huge world"s companies, criminals and local bussiness men. There is no democracy..It's a way to infuence our country by top coorporation and widespread the consumption..for higher profit of american coorporations.
Remember that in Italy during WW II, with all their problems, Mussolini did have the trains run on time.
Bravo , Mr. Wheel, you have seen the light and the truth will set you free. The Eastern European revolutions have been hijacked in many countries .
Enjoy democracy.The people in Iraq are already enjoying and some new countries will also enjoy it like your people.LONG LIVE DEMOCRACY
totally agree ,we need time to get into the democratic process, but , you can't discard the social implication to this transition period. we are not in lack of democracy as a concept but in the misleading way in practice .each incident has its pros and cons , but what we witness is taking the most advantage of the situation . corruption was and still and will be in every where on earth No Execption.
Earlier one family was eating wealth in Egypt and now a bunch of rich people will eat wealth of Egypt.Soon you will be enjoying the real taste of democracy with blood of poor people
I agree, Mr. Zakaria. Look at Taiwan. Democracy takes time to grow. It may be messy, it may be inefficient, it may be chaotic from time to time. But over time, people learnt to best use their freedom to choose. If they made a mistake, there is always the next election in four years, instead of the next revolution in a few more decades.
I wonder why Mr. Zakaria did not previously voice this same optimistic point of view on Iraq... and fails to mention it now?
because he is sunni
There is no democracy in the middle east after Israel. We abandoned Israel under Obama in favor of pie in the sky plans for Arab democracy. Obama's foreign policy is as big a failure as his economic failure.
Jon is still partying like it's 1999! Wake up and smell the coffee, this old AIPAC fallacy of Israel being the only democracy has been used for while in the US to dupe public opinion. We all have Facebook and Twitter and can read online about reality. Turkey, Lebanon and now Tunisia are REAL democracies that do not oppress a whole ethnic group like Israel does. Go to your masters at AIPAC and asks them to come up with something else, we just don't buy it anymore!
Turkey is considered in Europe for the most part, that must be why he ignored that country despite it being a true democracy since its foundation. Lebanon is a true democracy which he must have left out due to hostility, as Israelis would never say anything positive about an Arabic country. It's funny to say that Tunisia is democratic, we'll see I guess, such conclusions should rely on a long timeframe.
Democracy also takes a desire to respect individual liberty. Without gender equality, there will never be democracy in any of these Arab Spring countries.
Really? What about economic of individual? Arab Sring was not started in Tunisia because that gentlement wanted freedom first.
but if you have obama in power, it only takes 2.5 years to destroy it and the peoples faith in government, dethrone obama
I sure wish you had jumped in between 2000 and 2009. Where were you when George Bush deregulated Wall Street and American Banks? Where were you when Bush and Secretary Paulson sent $350 Billion Dollars to Goldman Sachs and AIG? Where were you when Bush encouraged Congress to give Paulson blanket immunity from future prosecution, to include Paulson's years as CEO of Goldman Sachs? Bush was very good at pardoning criminals, just ask Mr. Libby.
Bush didn't pardon Libby. It infuriated Cheney; get your facts straight.
What about Mr Bush.
It is difficult for democracy to flourish in a society where the teachings of the democratic process were not part of the mainstream education system. The people within the riots are frustrated for many reasons. They want a change of leadership, or a change of direction in their country. Without a road map, they are wondering in the town square and streets of oppression, and the solutions are not present.
Now people will see the real face of democracy.An advice for USA, if you want to bring down china and compete with china give the people of china the gift of democracy.They will never be able to compete with you after democracy.
Wow..you know, because Islamic power vacuums have always ended up being so positive in terms of human rights and peace...
You could be right Farid, I agree with you that it is hard to jump to democracy within a short time in particular if the previous rule was Dictator. It all depends on the magnitude of our political status in the Transition Period. The Harsher the previous system was the longer time it would take the transition period. On the other hand, the PREPAREDNESS OF THE PUBLIC to respond to immediate changes in the country. It also has to do with new elite resilience and with other socio, economic and political factors within the national system.
Yes, democracy takes time, and it can be lost if it is not properly tended to. Demagoguery, rabid partisanship, and the excessive influence of money are threatening to destroy the democracy in the US. It is not too late to turn things about, but it is a sad spectacle.
...Once Iraqi oil is fully online and we've got Iran in-line.... then Saudi Arabia will be next. Just a matter of time...
We have been able to avoid the pesty democracy in the States by making lobby bribes legal-both party politicians quickly sell out the voters.
It also takes IQ, or the nation to have the ability to produce a democracy. I you look up IQ of nations on wikipedia you'll notice below the IQ of 87 democracy becomes the exception rather than the norm. Above 87 IQ and nearly every nation has it.
It also takes an ability of the people to produce a democracy. If you look at wikipedia at the IQ of nations very few nations have a democracy that have an average IQ below 87. The IQ of 87 seems to be the turning point.
" Democracy takes time" Then Fareed, it is logical to say that we should give MItt Romney 2 terms in office to undo the socialistic nation Obama is leaving to us after just one term.
Socialism is an economic theory.
Democracy is a political system.
The fact that you are free to vote out Obama come November would suggest that our democracy is still functional.
It's a pity that Mr Zakaria, without ever setting foot in Tunisia after the revolution permits himself to make such an outlandish claim about Tunisia. The situation in Tunisia is nothing like what's in Libya or Egypt. While there are still difficulties in Tunisia, great strides were made in the civil liberties and political front, the economic condition as in most countries in the world, specially in Europe is still dire but efforts are being made to remedy that. So please Mr Zakaria, stick with the countries where you are an expert and have shown great understanding in your commentary. It's easy in the West to lump up a whole region as one and that is very unfair and unprofessional, traits that I personally did not see before in Mr Zakaria and hope not see again so that I can still rely on his credibility when I read about situations in neighboring countries such Libya or Egypt.
Fareed mentioned the Eastern Europian 'revolutions' 1989. Those 'revolutions' were relatively pieceful because the old regime was not even half as bad as it was described in the Western media. Those 'revolutions' were just transitions from one civilized society to another more (allegedly).civilized. And still the amount of chaos and destruction they caused was beyond anything people there have ever seen (excluding the wars).
Democracy takes time. Yes, the lifetime. Everyone who was already born or was about to be born when the revolution started will never live the nice life of the previous generation. Maybe the next generation will be luckier unless a new revolution comes around.
Do Siryans read these articles? Does Hillary Clinton reads these articles when she urges people to revolt against Assad? If she does and still insists on forceful solution then she should be tried as war criminal.
You should check your spelling before hitting "post". pieceful is spelled peaceful.
After the dot , it should be big P, Big George , do not be a pan that calls kettle black.
What does this paki know? he is just another liberal a–hole!
Three words for you: Articles of Confederation. If you're scratching your head, go back to high school.
Islam and democracy are incompatible. It is much, much more than a religion. It is an expansionist, socio-political ideology in fact,with strict laws that govern virtually every facet of daily life. Moreover, I believe the West, in attempting to be SO "politically correct" ignores the message to Islamic societies/regimes around the world that Islam is more a Totalitarian ideology as it is a "religion," per se. Muslims can only fully participate in democratic society provided they treat Islam as a matter of personal, private belief and not as a political ideology that seeks to monopolize the public space and regulate every aspect of individual and community life. Democracy, of course, is compatible with Islam because democracy is serial and polytheistic. People are free to believe whatever they like to believe and perform whatever religious rituals they wish, provided they do not infringe on other's freedoms in the public domain. The other way round, however, it does not work. Islam cannot allow people to do as they please , even in the privacy of their bedrooms, because God is always present, everywhere, all-hearing and all-seeing. Depriving Islam of critical scrutiny is bad for Islam and Muslims, and ultimately dangerous for the whole world. The debate is about how to organize the global public space that is shared by the whole humanity. That space must be religion-neutral and free of ideology, which means organized on the basis of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
There are 57 nations in the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC). Not one is yet a true democracy.
It's achieved the removal of American puppets, and now we are seeing the pendulum pushed the other way. Israel is very worried. In fact, it's terrified. Fear is a good thing.
This is a well thought-out and well stated article, but it overlooks or minimizes the firm grip of an exclusionary religion and a revered tradition of tribal violence on these people. It's not a clash between old and new, or east vs west ; it's about people who embraced violence and mahem as a way of life for centuries out of ingrained religious beliefs coming out to find the rest of the world doesn't care for that and won't stand for it either.
Well put, Fareed. If memory serves correct, 1/3 of the American colonists in the revolution supported the British. These Loyalists were forced from their homes after independence and had to emigrate to Canada, England, or other British-held places. Revolutions are indeed messy and unpleasant, often with outcomes that are not always what could be desired
Zakaria tells us to disregard Eastern Europe relatively smooth transition to democracy as an exception to the rule, and instead look to other parts of the world or to France and America of the 18th century. What he's really saying is that Arabs cannot be compared with modern Europeans.
Democracy will take time in countries with multi enthic communities. If you look at history that is something that is always consistent – finding common ground among diverse groups.
There's more ethnic diversity in Eastern Europe than in most Arab countries.
Democracy rarely works when it goes top-down. To have any chance at all, it must be bottom up. Even then you end up with trouble.
What has Arab Spring achieved? A hell of a lot more than Occupy Wall Street!!
BREAKING NEWS...
The unemployment rate has dropped to 8.3%! Sorry Mitt, Sorry Newt! Sorry GOPbags! Hahahahha!
When Sarah Palin heard of this latest unrest in Egypt, she offered to intervene and immediately boarded a flight to Cairo, Illinois. She's bringing mooseburgers and a big tray of s'mores.
You just wasted the 5 minutes it took me to read this, just say it takes time, this article was a waste of time and space.
Most of all democracy requires an involved, educated and peace-loving populace. Erecting a framework of democracy without those foundation elements is like building a house upon the sand.
Arabs have not ruled themselves since the time before the Ottomans, and that was nearly a thousand years ago. And even then it was under tyrants. Arab culture is good for managing clans and tribes. But not nations. Unless it's by the sword and through Islam.
America achieved its initial form of government in the Revolution using guns, swords, and the blood of thousands of thousands of colonists.
Ameria has achieved its current form of government using million of dollars of PAC money; labor union donations, labor votes; corporate campaign contributions, and the lying, cheating, and influence of lobbyists - thousands and thousands of lobbyists.
So I'd say to the emerging nations contemplating US imposed Democracy? Don't go there; you cannot afford it. If your tribal leader form of government works, keep it.
Newt?
DEMOCRACRY IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES DOES NOT TAKE TIME Mr.Zakaria
IT ALMOST CAN’T TAKE ROOTS IN THESE COUNTRIES given that of the over 50 Muslim majority nations just a handful are democratic, and of those far fewer are truly democratic .
And, nobody counts on Mr.Zakaria to be fair & balanced when it comes to Muslim affairs.
Sure wish Zakaria would go live in the Muslim world and keep his 2 cents to himself!
Folks, Experimental democracy is DOA (Dead On Arrival) in India. It is has never worked in large populated countries. Particularly those with mostly illiterate populace such as India. Too big to manage, minorities such as muslims, sikhs, christians get disenfranchised etc. India will need to go back to its socialist/communist roots. Maybe splitting it up into smaller pieces (circa USSR) is an alternate scenario. CIA is probably running some models to deal with the potential implosion
It seems as if the "Arab Spring" was of the dictators design. The only thing it achieved is the death or imprisonment of thousands of "undesirables".
Let's start a war.......er I mean Soccer match!!!!! Hahahahahahahahahah
Arabs of different tribes have hated and killed each other for centuries. The "goal" of democracy isn't going to change the hate and killing – may even make it worse. There is a reason why many arab nations have dicators – there has to be someone that is feared to keep them from killing each other. Have to change the whole culture and centuries of hate before "democracy" even has a chance.
Fareed you're right! Democracy does take time! For example, in 2000 the US Supreme court had to decide the Presidential election because our flawed democratic system was tampered with. And when the dust cleared, the borther of the accused suspect ran off with the Presidency. And the end result? Eight years of strife and living hell at home and abroad! Yes Fareed, democracy does take time even is the United States of America!
HAHAHAHA!!! You are an idiot 11 years later! HAHAHAHAHA!!! The Dems ran all over that state trying to find the votes to prove they won and never did!!! Don't you think they would have been screaming about it if they did!!! And you are still running on a lie, NICE!
HEY! Don't let facts interfere with his fantasy! It's not nice!
Fareed,
Given that your articles have been deteriorating in quality lately, I will give you some slack. However, this article has reached the height of ridiculousness. While I agree with your ending, "Democracy might be messy. It's certainly complicated. It takes a while to consolidate. But for the first time in perhaps a millennium, the Arab people are taking charge of their own affairs. So let's cut them some slack. It's only been a year," the rest of your article is utterly disappointing because you fail to step back, look at your subject, and call a spade a spade. You start your article, "Dozens of Egyptians were killed in a soccer stadium brawl this past week. This was the deadliest outbreak of violence since Hosni Mubarak was ousted one year ago." What is it that you mean by saying, "dozens of Egyptians were killed in a soccer stadium brawl." This wasn't just the passive tense killing of egyptians. This is a tragic story of Egyptians butchering Egyptians over soccer and an emasculated security force that was either unwilling or unable (i don't think we know the truth) to prevent the massacre. It seems that you are discounting this event as one small inconsequential "bump" in the long, arduous road to democracy. Fareed, this is where you are wrong. This tragic occurrence has little to do with "people-power", rather it is emblematic of much deeper problems hidden–yet glaringly obvious for anyone who is willing to take off their blinders–in the dark chasms of Egyptian society. Once again, Fareed, let's call a spade a spade. This was an awful event. It has little to do with democracy and the peoples' quest for power and dignity. This was people acting in their most depraved, debased, and barbaric form and the inability or unwillingness of a country's security force to stop the bloodshed. It is symbolic not of a people searching for freedom, dignity, or a voice, but rather of a country tearing itself apart from the inside due to lack of hope, lack of future, and lack of leadership. But remember yet the slogan of Egypt's new leadership..."Al-Islaam huwa al-Hal." I'm sure that will prevent this from reoccurring.
-Barhoum
New York
100%!
People need to change from within (more Godly) before attempting to change the government.
Disagree with you and here is why ?
Democracy has many flavors. We cannot hold every democracy in the world to American standards. You get to hear this news because they have democracy and this is clear testimony. When Mubarak like dictators rules we don’t (never) hear this type of news, they commit genocide and rob the country of its fortune, because you don’t hear them it does not imply everything was great.
Democracy takes time? Is this the answer to all the murders being committed by the Muslims?
This comes from a guy who wrote of Chile's democratization that "Chile's post-Pinochet democratic success has as much to do with Chile's long pre-Pinochet history of democracy as it does with the economic groundwork Pinochet laid". I really do not understand where Fareed Zakaria's influence comes from. He lacks the scholarly rigor in his simplified analyses of complex realities, his writings have the quality of undergrad college papers and his positions are often dubious and uninformed.
good thing there is a democracy here in the states because some of these blogs are so personal it's ridiculous. it is okay to disagree, but some sound totally ignorant of anything but their own view - scary. we here in amercian have a specific view of what "democracy" is - if it isn't like ours, then it isn't a democracy. well, shock and awe, europe may have socialist economies, but they are democratic in their own way (everyone can vote, people have a voice in where their money goes (just ask the unions). if the Arab spring brings about any sort of democracy in that region, that would be great - but, who knows. unlike much of the rest of the world, the US tends not to dwell on history (ours is so much shorter than other countries), whereas in other regions (especially in the middle east), the saying "if you forget your history you are doomed to repeat it" seems to apply. so, get over it with the personal attacks on Mr. Zakariah and don't read his commentary if you think he is so bad at what he does - perhaps you should just listen to Fox and Rush Limbaugh for your news input.
There might not be much time to give them some "slack" unless they get it together soon. I'm tired of reading about ignorant peoples all over the world who are forbidden to learn basic human principles by their religious leaders. In place of democracy and the basic rights that support it, such as freedom of speech and religion, the Egyptians, for instance, still have blind obedience to the totalitarian values preached by their religion. Let's give them a deadline to catch up with the rest of the world, and that goes for the rest of the Muslim countries, too.
DEMOCRACY HAS BEEN DISASTROUS FOR MOST MUSLIM COUNTRIES!
Once again Mr.Zakaria is the last person that any of us can count on to admit that given that his entire effort has been at dismantling the US supported regimes, and rallying Muslim countries to reverse the peace process with Israel and crush the Jewish nation (Remember his call suggesting that the Egypt-Israel accord was an agreement between two regimes and NOT two peoples tacitly calling Egyptians to nullify it, and his portrayal of Hamas, Hezbollah & Muslim Brotherhood as moderates and chastising America for calling them radicals).
So here are some specific examples on failure of democracy in Islamic countries:
a) Iran under Shah Mohammed Reza Pehlavi was projected as a m
odel for development in the Islamic world. Overnight it turned into a Islamic theocracy when Ayatollah Khomeni swept into power.
b) Pakistan’s which calls itself a democracy has been under the spell of the military for half of its 60 year existence, and the remaining half under the influence of Mullahs.
c) Palestinian Authority’s experimentation with democracy has made the creation of an Independent Palestinian state an unachievable dream with terrorist Hamas taking the center stage in Gaza, and the fratricidal war between Fatah and Hamas.
d) Turkey which boasts itself as a Secular democracy has seen the worst atrocities and genocides of its minorities of any Muslim land, and is steadily slipping back into Islamic fundamentalism.
e) Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan have dubious democracies leaving the minorities with no real freedom.
f) Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan are authoritarian presidential regimes where again minorities are oppressed.
And, now as a result of the Arab Spring which Mr.Zakaria never tires of singing praises of, we see Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Yemen and even Morocco sliding into chaos with Islamic fundamentalists taking center stage with some of the worst human rights abuses not only against minorities (Coptics in Egypt, Jews in Tunisia) but even against fellow Muslims.
ARE WE WRONG MR. ZAKARIA?????
Amit-Atlanta-USA
Democracy has indeed been disastrous for Islamic countries, when western countries chose to overthrow them. Perhaps it is more accurate to say that it is dangerous for an Islamic country to look out for its people's interest rather than the interests of the west.
a.) Iran had a democracy in the 1950's. The British and United States government overthrew the Iranian democratic government to replace it with a military dictator in order to maintain oil profits. The Shah, who you praise, had a horrible human rights record. His government was brutal as the typical military dictatorship. However, the United States continued to support him because he got us cheap oil. Of course, when a western dictator is overthrown, the Iranians don't automatically adopt a western style government.
b.) Pakistan is a mess. It is not a democracy. However, with the amount of military aid that has been flowing into the country from the US and Saudi Arabia, that isn't exactly a surprise.
c.) Israel has not been seeking peace for the past few years. Its military domination over the region has caused people to go to drastic measures. Terrorism is never a good thing, and I definitely don't endorse the methods of the Hamas, but recent hardliner stances from Israel make me feel that Israel is at least partially to blame. Israel has isolated moderates like the leaders of Jordan.
d.) Turkey is by no means perfect. Its military still has much control over the country. In any case, a transition from a democratic government to genocide is hardly just in the Middle East. Germany was a democracy in the 1920's.
As as Arab, I have little hope for democracy. The Muslim Fundamentalists do not want it and will kill to prevent it. I will never return to my homeland.
Anything and everything you said about Turkey relies on lies and propaganda, you are relying on the brainwashing you received and posting your biased opinions depending on your prejudice. You are clueless about what took place in Turkey's past, do not act like you have an idea. In fact, you are obviously clueless about today's Turkish reality as well, read a little, do some research, pay a visit. You will find that Turkey is superior to the country of those that spread the propaganda you heard and used in your post today.
So when we were trying to build Democracy in Iraq why didn't you mention this you Arab liberal toad? Yes it takes time and goes through ups and downs... You tried to do everything you could to undermine the US policies in the mid 2000's... And do you know what would have helped these struggling countries who are being taken control of by their military? A President who had a backbone to lead instead of being a wuss! If we a beacon of hope for Democracy, which we should be, then we need to lead however this President doesn't know how to lead... he hasn't done it in any situation he's been in since being in office
Democracy in the Arab world definitely takes time. Like maybe 4,000 plus years and counting.
..the comparison of islamic struggles with democracy to Eastern European democracy is perfectly valid...Eastern European countries were void of religious intrusion into public life – on purpose....compared to Islamic countries where religion is central...Eastern Europe had nearly 100% literacy vs. islamic countries with less than 25%, unless you include the teaching to read the Koran, and just the Koran....
The shill strikes again....
how's it feel under the presidential desk fareed?
Bull Hocky! They gave up in Egypt and let the military take over and now they're stuck with a junta. Democracy needs 'the blood of patriots' not a bunch of soccer hooligans!
They will be still be better off as free people. They just need to learn how to live with the consequences of their own decisions. Americans take that for granted, but it will take a couple generations to sink in for the Egyptians. In the meanwhile, they need accountability for the cops who did nothing at the soccer match, and they need to see a lot of guilty people going to jail for murder.
Here’s an analysis of Mr.Zakaria’s sugarcoating of the entire issue of ISLAM & DEMOCRACY (or is it malice?).
Mr. Zakaria: “Dozens of Egyptians were killed in a soccer stadium brawl this past week. This was the deadliest outbreak of violence since Hosni Mubarak was ousted one year ago.”
Truth: You forgot the 100’s of Coptic Christians killed and Churches razed Mr. Zakaria!
Mr.Zakaria : “A quarter of the seats in parliament have gone to a group of ultra conservative Islamists.”
Truth : “True, if you remove the word "ultra" over 70% of the seats have been garnered by Egypt’s Islamic parties”
To be Contd.....
Eygpt and Libya just traded their corrupt tyranical regimes for new corrupt tyrannical regimes that Fareed Zakaria seems to incorrectly think have democracy ultimately as their aim. The Egyptian military which currently controls Egypt will not create democracy in Eygpt. Neither will the Muslim Brotherhood if they come into power. The Libyan rebels that control Libya – with directly links to AlQaeda- also have no intention of forming a democracy. Fareed Zakaria's argument that democracies take time is based on a completely false premise: namely, that these Middle East countries are run by people who want to create democracy. They aren't Fareed. That's why your argument is nonsense.
Part 2:
Mr.Zakaria: “after years of living under tyranny, Arabs just don't know how to rule themselves”
Truth: “An indirect attack on US policies in propping up those dictatorships, and a deliberate omission NOT to discuss the role of Islamic ideology as applied to modern democracy’
Mr.Zakaria: “let's look at some history. Democracy has never been easy. Consider what so many democratic revolutions looked like – a year or two after they started. Take America: After the revolutionary war, the country was in economic, political, and social turmoil. By 1779, inflation was at close to 400%..
Truth: “GIVE ME A BREAK!”
To be Contd...
What does it mean? It means that eventually, "news" organizations like CNN will have to stop calling the "Arab Spring" a democracy movement and call it what it is.
And, Farheed, democracy does take time. It took a thousand years of the merging of Greek, Roman and Germanic traditions to make it in the West. It is not for everybody and not everybody understands it or would implement it properly.
Thank you so much for this article. It has really bothered me that people have apparently forgotten that America didn't immediately change after the Revolution. Democracy is difficult to achieve and we're still working on it.
Thank you again!
Democracy is nothing less than mob rule. All it takes is someone popular enough to fool most of the people into voting for him. There is nothing sacred in being part of the herd. There is nothing holy in being one of many sheep. There is no wisdom or genius that comes from a gang of conformists.
This country was NOT founded as a democracy, but as a Republic, established to protect the rights of the smallest minority in the world - those of the individual.
True democracy is not possible with the backdrop of Islam. Period.
I'm sorry. A true Republic is not possible with the backdrop of Islam. Period.
worry about eating your cheeseburger, and don't forget the extra ketchup and fries
They should be judged by their actions not their words, to paraphrase our secretary of state. My judging meter is on and it's not looking good.
Democracy and Anarchy are tools that Oligarchs use to take power.
Democrats, Republicans, Communist, Socialist, etc ... Which one will we choose this time around?
No, Democracy is a transitional tool and not a form of government. Majorities oppress the minority and assign privilege, exemption, class status, etc...
We are a Republic and should be promoting Republics that are governed by the 'Rule of Law' that is enforced equally to the majority, minority, economic classes.
We need to preserve our Republic before the majority decides that it will surrender the Liberty of us all.
The web video "The American Form of Government" explains very well what we have. And "Cartoon predicts the future 50 years ago. This is amazing insight!" explains how we can lose it.
replaced old dictators with new ones
giggidy giggidy!
God preserve us all from a left wing internationalist's idea of "democracy".
Difference between western democracy, power of choice and Islamic democracy is, western democracy is out of limit of truth subordinated to secular, self centered soul, desire and Islamic democracy is based on truth absolute, It is matter of truth absolute or hinduism, denial of it.
Wrong. A majority, either secular or theocratic, produces the same results. The majority imposes their doctrine of supremacy upon everyone else.
Democracy and Anarchy are used to impose an oligarch's rule. That Oligarch can be any faction whether they be secular or theocratic.
A Republic is a form of governance that has laws that treat all of the people under its rule equally.
Dar – For a person who appears to have such a simple minded hatred for Hindus, whay are you clinging to your ancestral Hindu Brahmin name? Give it up and replace it with some Arabic name. Perhaps you are too stupid and ignorant to realize that your ancesters were Hindus who were forced to convert by Islamic invaders.
I could not leave a comment before. I thought that some moderator took my comments out ( I have seen a lot of it ) because they were not to his liking and he wants to mold the public opinion according to his/her agenda.
Here in a nutshell what I wrote before . Your commentary " local militias renegated on a pledge to give up their arms ". They are not stupid . To victimize people you take their means of defending themselves. In view of Operation fast and Furious we better remember it.
What has the Arab Spring achieved? It gives Obama just one more thing he'll take credit for.
How can he take credit for slap on face of his hypocritical policies. Killer of innocent can not be messiah of innocent people they murdered.
It seems to be working out according to Obama's plan. He has allied himself with the Muslim Brotherhood and it seems that they are going to rule as a Theocracy in Egypt. They are now arresting any outsiders that are championing democracy. It appears that it will be an authoritarian Theocracy much as exists in Iran.
the arab spring was absolutely worthless because they replaced dictators with an even more oppressive muslim regimes. for me islam is absolutely horrible. ill take the dictator.
It is their free choice, live with it hindu.
The Arab spring was not worthless. It accomplished the goal of establishing an Islamic caliphate. It is strange that most people don't seem to understand the goal. The end game will be for the Shiites to control Saudi Arabia. They are obviously now surrounding Saudi Arabia and waiting for the right time to cause the overthrow. This is fairly common knowledge.
I am frustrated with the CENSORSHIP GOING IN THIS FORUM directed at certain IDs (I believe!) even when the issues are logically addressed w/o any unparliamentary language.
I have see several cases where my responses have not been published or even removed later.
Looks like Mr.Zakaria is scared of candid, logical feedback!
You are right ,Amit – I noticed the same thing. it is called " free press" in the U.S. if you critisize Globalism ,express unpopular views , even when you have angels language ( I never use vulgarity or name calling) -boom, you are out. If you express politically correct views-you can be vulgar, use personal attack ( only if it is Ron Paul )- it is OK. Do they think p[eople are stupid and will not notice it ?
"Democracy takes time". Kind of sounds like "Freedom is on the March" or "In god we trust " or "god bless America" . Don't you have any real world, pragmatic, practical, prudent and workable solutions to this ugly , ugly mess we got ourselves and the world into ?
Have intentions in limit of truth, speak in limit of truth and live by truth, afraid of none but of violation of truth and Islam , peace will be eshtale among humanity. Leave hinduism, denial of truth behind for good of humanity.
BREAKING NEWS...
The unemployment rate has dropped to 8.5 %. Sorry! I misspoke. Make that 8.3%. Sorry Mitt! Hahahahaha!
The MOST corrupt governing/political system in the world is , you guessed it right , Democracy !
Don't believe me , look up stats.
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
~Winston Churchill
He was whiskys bum and spoke while he was high on it. Only a drunk in hinduism, denial of truth can take his absurdity seriously.
Talking worldy Stats here pal. Not a famous saying by somebody famous.
Lets stick to facts, shall we .
Talking worldy Stats here pal. Not a famous saying by somebody famous.
Lets stick to facts, shall we .
You didn't provide any facts.
You say Democracy is bad but you didn't mention what was better. I think Churchill was right, democracy is not perfect but the best we've come up with so far.
It's a shame that the people in the Middle East would elect fundamentalists to lead them but maybe this is just a step in the process toward what should be the ultimate goal; western style, free-market democracy. The fundamentalists will do a horrible job and the people will finally realize what a bunch of crap the Muslim Brotherhood et al have been peddling. The next revolution will be the one that truly frees these people. Just look at Iran. 30 years of these bozos and the Iranian people are possibly the least religious in the region. Let's hope the Brotherhood's reign is much shorter.
Democracy sucks.
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." – Winston Churchill.
As the current state of affairs in the U.S. testify, Democracy gets messy long after the shockwaves of revolution have attenuated. Often it is the result of forgetting that a representative democracy by its nature requires compromise. Polarized opinions and my-way-or-the-highway politics threaten the foundations of democracy.
“Every man cannot have his way in all things. If his opinion prevails at some times, he should acquiesce on seeing that of others preponderate at other times. Without this mutual disposition we are disjointed individuals, but not a society.” – Thomas Jefferson.
http://www.panderingpoliticians.com/2011/08/thomas-jefferson-on-compromise.html
They have dumped way of life based on soul, desire like animals and choose to live by truth absolute, no human should have problem with it unless person is hindu of his soul, desire.
This is called Fareed going to bat for Obama and the handing of the "Arab Spring" off to the Muslim Brotherhood... which most people (outside of Obama and the State Dept.) knew would be folly. Because, you know, those Muslim power-vacuums always turn out so well for the free world...
Democracy will not work in that part of the world as long as we blindly support the rogue aggressive country known as Israel.. How many more wars do we have to lose. How many more sons, daughters, husbands and wives we have to lose before we wise up. The world hates us , our econmy is in shambles. Not a lot of countries/regimes trust us . Its safe to say that we messed everything up to the point of no return
And remember whenever you get sacred , just say :
God bless America !
and everything will be OK................
i am amazed why you are not affected by US media mafia. An american speaking reality is very rare.Nice to meet you
These people aren't worthy of a free and democratic society. They and us were better off with Mubarak.
hindu loves his hindu brother in their hinduism denial of truth.
Fareed let us not make the same mistake as George W Bush. American military freed Iraq and there was a lull. Then the sectarian prejudices were restarted and the country socially, religiously and politically came apart at the seems. In Egypt the people have done what American troops did in Iraq. Yet in Egypt like Iraq there was no basis or structure for a Non Islamic solution. They will have an Iraqi experience.
Democracy does take tim,e but the comparison you make to the American revolution is really no comparison at all. Americans had the Magna Carta and a religion that agreed with Separation of Church and State. During the early American years you use as an example Americans wrote the Bill of Rights.
Muslims in Egypt, Iraq or where ever have no real desire to separate church and state, it is foreign to their core belief system. Therefore they will produce a different result than we in the West. During my banking career I had several Armenian clients that came from Turkey. They say regardless of what the newspapers write Turkey operates as an Islamic State. Non Muslims are second class citizens.
These are facts that when ignored produce disastrous results. Bush made a Trillion Dollar Mistake costing too many lives and if I might respectfully submit yours mistake is one of over optimistic benevolence. Systemic values changes in core Muslim values are necessary for true democracy to take place and they may never produce the freedom you and I cherish as Americans.
Amen!
Armenians will NEVER tell the truth about Turkey. You have to completely ignore their lies and propaganda and find out the truth for yourself. Turkey is absolutely superior to Armenia in every way, Armenians are not at all in a position to criticize pretty much any country but some in Africa. Armenians are far behind the rest of the world when it comes to human rights, treatment of other ethnic groups and minorities belonging to different religions. In fact, even different denominations of Christianity are discriminated against in Armenia and you wouldn't be able to built a church that is not Armenian Orthodox. Nobody cares, you don't hear about it, because Armenia is as insignificant as it gets.
Right, like the French Revolution, we only need to wait another 200 years or so for these countries to evolve into civilized democracies.. an excellent prospect.
Civility is based on fundamental truth not on hindu soul, desire, as hindus do in their secular self centered hinduism. Civility is based on Islam not denial of it.
I rest my case
Another Supremacist justifying his crimes against humanity upon the doctrine of a Theocratic Oligarchy.
Theocratic is based on a theory or a hypothesis and bases of religions, but not of Islam, Islam is fundamentally factual proven by science, not hindusm of hindus, making subject of truth, a truth themselves in their hindu theorem, hypothesis.
The crime rate in US tells us very clearly how civilized you are.
Amazing how this article got a lot of comments and many anti Islam ones. That said, you are absolutely right, democracy has a price, a very high price, but the end justifies the means. We can say fear is gone and there is no going back and the rulers of Arab countries will think twice before oppressing their people, even in Syria, Bashar el Assad is now planning for a way out with his loot. People come and go, but countries stay. Egypt is more than 7000 years old and it will survive and will come out victorious like its capital name.
"Arab Spring" has achieved exactly nothing. Ten thousand years of history and civilization, destroyed in a hundred years. The violence and chaos of these middle-ages people (as evident over the soccer riots in Egypt) does not contain any seeds of democracy; it never has. What have they managed to do in all this time but kill the family members of their "prophet," and then fall out and kill each other fighting over the spoils? So the old strong men are being replaced with new ones. So what?
All very well, but we can't do anything about it anyway until we see where it's going. It'll be interesting to see how Iran's troubles and responses to sanctions, pressure, and internal turmoil affects Islamic hegemony
More one pushes a truthful Muslim, harder he fights back, till hinduism of hindus in soul, desire is no more.
How is that 'free' will? Pushing someone into something is what, the devil's plan?
Denial of truth is illegality, to stop illegality or to punish a criminal is not hell but to put them in their place, hell is noble, not criminal, but just in hinduism of hindu's.
Does that also apply to you if your self-proclaimed truth is a lie when it comes to the rights and liberties of others?
To stop some from illegality is not devilish plan but only in hinduism of a hindu.
Mohammad, you have determined that your particular opinion regarding matters supernatural is "absolute truth". You then force your opinion onto others. Those who disagree with you are "illegal criminals to be punished". In summary, you are are an lunatic. The problem is that the Middle East is full of lunatics just like you.. some of whom hold high government office.
Rights are wages earned of duties discharged. Right means limit, rights are responsibly, responsibilities are liabilities and liabilities are subject to accountability. No accountability no rights, rights without accountability only in hinduism of hindus.
Lunatic or indulged in self or known as a secular, self centered is not the way of Muslims but of hindus. What I wrote is scientific proven by Quantum Physics, latest to be in Switzerland, Every thing or person has to be within truth or its Quantum or it does not work. Please do some scientific studies before to be argumentive in soul, desire.
It was an uprising with no structure. They should not have ripped down the structure they had, until they could provide a path for a new structure. Now they will face chaos. After a time with chaos, they will welcome governance. Unfortunately, the people who will take power will be worse than the a-wipes they threw out. That's just the way it works in plain 'ole simple english.
They look at democracy as a way to create wealth. They have confused the will for democracy with a means to wealth. Here in the US we are not a people's democracy, we are a republic. We democratically elect our leaders for defined periods of time and set term limits to continually usher them out so no one can really take power. Our so called 'wealth' based on our history of embracing the private sector and capitalism.
As much as the Middle East proclaims that we misunderstand them, I certainly am sure they completely ignorant of how western civilization works and are unwilling to admit it. They think they know everything and listen to no one except their religious leaders. Even Americans are allowing themselves to be ignorant of how our government and economic system is structured.
For the Muslim Brotherhood to get control of these countries they have to use Democracy to get the majority to relinquish their Liberty to them or induce Anarchy so the the people beg them to restore order.
Until the people establish a Republic governed by the 'Rule of Law', with equal justice for all, the Oligarch of the Muslim Brotherhood or any other Oligarch will impose their will upon the people.
Word Law is corruption of word La. the limit absolute,or the truth, handiwork of crocks to enslave humanity. Thing have to go by their factual flow or in truth or by Law, product of hindu soul, desire live in mayhem. Brother hood purpose in not Law, but rule by La. the truth and secular, self centered hindus have no clue of it in life.
Your definition of truth violates human potential by reducing us to slaves of an Oligarch that has its authority through indoctrination, fear of the governing Oligarch, and emotional distress of it subjects.
No thank you.
Human own nothing but choice in life under the control of Truth, No one has ever existed without control of truth and nothing will ever exist without truth. Have choices in positive or things never work.
The trouble is that your 'truth' is ethereal.
Matter of opinion, having nothing to do with truth absolute.
Democracy does take time, however, with radical Islamic fundamentalists in play, there is no realistic hope for it. Islamic zealots believe in killing anyone that does not smell bad and believe in Muhammad.
Only in hinduism of a hindu, having nothing to do with truth.
I tend to favor the first few paragraphs of the article and discount the rest. A curious note is that when the Arabs live under repressive and authoratarian rule, the lights work, the water runs, the toilets flush and basic services are usually at least passable.
When they overthrow or remove their dictators, the whole country seems to revert to almost precivilized conditions. They have no idea nor intent to follow or understand Western ideals of democracy, for it puts the onus on the individual instead of the hive...the mentality of Islam refused to recognize Democracy as anything but bad, because it frees the individuals mind to think outside of Islam or its ways, and that's the paramount danger, not backed up toilets...
The Oligarchy that is fomenting the unrest can't afford to let the people be at peace. It deflects the cause of the unrest to the object of its intended conquest. Bringing peace to this regions would cause that the people would not stand as an army against the West. No one wants to fight if they have what they want and are comfortable.
Obama and the media's "Arab Spring" acid trip opened the door for the Islamists and at least a generation of war and violence and instability in the Middle East.
What a hinduism, It was not Obama but Osama. hindus.
This is the true face of USA
The Arab Spring has ways to go to liberate Bahrain from the tyranny of the current rulers until democracy and justice are established there.
No, first England and Than Behran, because they are creation of hindu England, and her have to be freed first.
Well-said? I wouldn't believe everything you read on here. Especially if it's written by Fareed. You have two-plus millenia of a violent, abusive culture. Nothing is going to change over there unless people start treating each other with dignity, including women and children. The ones who are now abusers were mistreated as children. And if the children in these countries continue to be mistreated, they will become abusers due to the hatred they carry.
Don't believe everything you read, people. Especially if you have not been over there. Fareed is about as fair-and-balanced as a deck chair on the Costa Concordia.
And once again Fareed bloviates. Oh. yes. I'm really optimistic about the Arab Spring and how its "democracy" has brought Islamic political parties to power. Democracy is more than an election, it is an acceptance of democratic ideals, including the dignity of all human beings, including women. Good luck with that in the "new" Middle East.
Who will define the dignity and other values. Mr Bush and Obama and you fool.
Freedom in an incredible thing. Egyptians had been deprived of basic rights for decades. The comments here need some moderation. I see a lot of direct attacks on journalism and views. Some are taking this personal and expressing views that are irrelevant to article.
If the Arab Spring hasn't woken up the masses enough to make them eradicate State-sponsored religion (Islam), then it is a failure.
Personality worship and self richness are fundamentals of religions, hinduism and Islam has nothing to do with it, but in hinduism of hindus.
A better question is what has the middle east accomplished since Islam?
Get some history lessons, every thing west has is based on Islamic research, look at foundation of your school books, unless one is a hindu, uneducated.
"every thing west has is based on Islamic research"
Uhhh, yeah, like the number ZERO. Good one, Mohammed.
If it has not accomplished any thing what are you doing in middle east.Take your forces out if there is nothing attractive there. Dont make people fool.
Perhaps the reality is that it actually made things worse. It appears that Islamic takeovers is all that has come of it, and that in the longer view, the threat of Islam, to the world as a whole, has greatly increased.
Not any more than mafia fearing the law enforcement. out law's better watch out.
Jeez Fareed, what makes you think they are going to change when they have been behaving this way for over 1500 years?
We know how have you behaved in iraq, vietnam and afghanistan and the christian behaviour of killing people in world war
We all know what it's all about, but the political-correctness stupidity make the west unable to articulate the obvious - namely that we are at war with fundamentalist Islam. See – Egypt, Libya, Tunisa, now Syria - are taken over by the fundamentalists with the blessing of the West – claiming this is a democratic change and spending $$ to help them (Lybia) and Egypt ($$$) – the second biggest recipient of US foreign aid. How about Pakistan – -that also receives US aid to help the Taliban. This does not make any sense at all. Ron Paul is right in the sense – that getting out of there means at-least that you are not helping your adversaries.
So, it is a strange situation , when you help your adversaries to achieve their goals - unless there is something worse than stupidity.
Islamic law is absolutely incompatible with democracy. It is a theocratic system with Allah alone at its head. Allah's law is interpreted by a ruling body of clerics. There is no room for a secular political system in which all people are treated as equals.
The Qur'an:
Qur'an (33:36) – "It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision."
Qur'an (45:21) – "What! Do those who seek after evil ways think that We shall hold them equal with those who believe and do righteous deeds,- that equal will be their life and their death? Ill is the judgment that they make." Unbelievers are not equal to Muslims. This is dutifully reflected in Islamic law.
Qur'an (39:9) – "Are those who know equal to those who know not?"
Qur'an (4:141) – "...And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way (to triumphs) over the believers." This is at odds with democracy, which allows anyone to serve in a position of power over others regardless of religious belief.
Qur'an (63:8) – "...might (power) belongeth to Allah and to His messenger and to the believers;" ie. not to anyone else.
Qur'an (5:49) – "So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires, but beware of them lest they seduce thee from some part of that which Allah hath revealed unto thee" Allah's Qur'an takes priority over the desires of the people. A democratic nation is by nature one that is not governed by Islamic law, meaning that a Muslim citizen would have divided loyalty. It's clear from this verse which side he must choose.
Qur'an (4:123) – "Not your desires, nor those of the People of the Book (can prevail): whoever works evil, will be requited accordingly. Nor will he find, besides Allah, any protector or helper."
Qur'an (4:59) – "O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you..." Obedience is strictly limited to a government drawn from believers, not from the broader community. This verse has also been used to justify submission to autocratic rule, however oppressive it may by. As an Arab tradition put is: "tyranny is better than anarchy."
Qur'an (9:3) – "...Allah and his messenger are free from obligation to the unbelievers..." Muhammad used this "revelation" to dissolve a standing treaty and chase non-Muslims from their homes if they wouldn't accept Islam. This practice would be incompatible with democratic rule, in which everyone is considered equal.
Truth absolute and proven by science of Quantum Physics. need any more, no man has capacity to be truth because he is under the La. truth absolute and rest of it is hinduism of sou, desire. Islam is about perfection not hinduism, denial of it by soul, desire, because human has no capacity to do so.
Mohammed.....KATUWA.....wherefore dost thou prate on about Hinduism so? Art thou Paki?
Please leave your veto right in UN to show a democratic behaviour and let world decide about world affairs in a democratic way.I hope you will stand up for this also.Good luck
Islamic law is absolutely incompatible with democracy. It is a theocratic system with Allah alone at its head. Allah's law is interpreted by a ruling body of clerics. There is no room for a secular political system in which all people are treated as equals.
democracy has failed in america just like Communism failed in russia a poor choice of leaders that led to corruption and waste and in the end america is finished......
"Democracy" in America is phony, and yet it is the best thing going in the world today.
why are you taking loan from china. Democracy hast lost against china. Europe is begging to get money from china. Democracy will soon see its future
For democracy to work, it requires and educated populous. That is why we live in a Republic, we have too many stupid people.
The US has more "democracy" than any other country and that is very little. Do we really get candidates anyone really likes? Do our wars stop when the majority is against them? Do we really feel safe from the police?
Oh, I have lived elsewhere including the British Commonwealth and we are the best by far, but that is pretty horrid.
"Do we really get candidates anyone really likes?"
Like South Park put it when Bush and Kerry were running in 2004....it is a choice between a do-uche and a turd
"Do our wars stop when the majority is against them?"
Vietnam, yes, but that doesn't work anymore.
"Do we really feel safe from the police?"
What? Feel safe from the Street Gang for the Elite? Nay and forsooth!
Too bad these people don't want democracy, their religion hates democracy and they hate each other and you think democracy has a chance????? Wow what a dream world you live in!
yes fafreak........
yes, at the cost of how many lives?
oh nevermind..........its just the cost of a liberal agenda.....
not to be confused with war!
lol
The African Spring was a big success.
The Arab Spring was a big fizzle.
US does not have much interest in Africa as compared to middle east so result is obvious success in africa.
The difference between other countries that took time to develop a thorough democracy and the ones part of the 'Arab Spring' is that those other countries had citizens who wanted better things for themselves and their loved ones and weren't brainwashed by the differing goals and agendas that lead to constant bloodshed the way Islamic nations are.
To compare those nations with these Arab countries is actually hilarious when you think about it.
Sure there are millions of citizens in those Arab countries that wish for those same things in life,, but unfortunately their voices are silenced and plans derailed by the blood thirsty cultists that can't put people before a book.
just because this failed doesn't automatically mean you have to support it Fareed.
No mention of the Salafist and Muslim Brotherhood majority in Egypt. Egypt is not nor will it be democratic. It will be a fanatical (read Taliban, Al Qaeda) Islamic Sahriah ruled region. Women will never gain full rights, nor Christians, or any other non-muslim peoples. This article is just fluff for the fanatics who oppress all "non-believers". No surprise, given the author is no more than a Muslim mouthpiece in the west.
Oh I forgot it's all Bush's fault! No I mean Israel, no I mean Aipac, No I mean Cheney. Could it be a speech in Cairo giving the MB a free pass to take over the country? Nah. That would mean telling the cold hard truth.
Gee, whiz, Fareed, kinda sounds like Don Rumsfeld about Iraq
The US learned the hard way in Viet Nam that democracy is not appropriate in all cases.
Maslow set forth the obvious heirarchy of needs: 1) water, 2) food, 3) shelter, (these first three mean having economic and political systems and cultural values that provide the ability to earn income to support one's self and family.) Only after basic needs are met does one's attention and interest turn to such things as 'freedom' and democracy – freedom to choose one's leaders. And one's leaders must not only be aware but able to manage, direct, and bring about the conditions for the first 3 to be met. Without assuring the basic needs, any attempt to then acquire or bring about the higher needs will fail. The situation in Egypt was predictable when the Arab spring first occurred. We saw it coming, we could do nothing about it but watch it happen. Sort of like watching a plane crash. Military or marshal law, communism, or a dictatorship of some sort is necessary in most places to establish the social and economic order necessary to provide for and assure that the basic needs are met and will continue to be met, before any hope of freedom and democracy can realistically be expected to succeed.
First time in a millennium? Silly nonsense. So you blame dictatorship on the Crusades? How convenient. You must forget the 400 years of dictatorship prior to that? Haven't you noticed that Mohammed was a dictator who demanded submission?
Sleep walking hindu, Mohammad Pbh never asked any one to submit to him but truth absolute, but hindu sanatans require it from their hindus.
And Ishmael, the spurious offspring of Abraham and his wife's maidservant, Hagar, went on to form the Arabic people, who were obviously just insanely jealous of their Israeli half-brethren. They didn't have their own religion in their own language. Thus, Islam was formed to fill this void. And look at all the good that this product of jealous rage has done for the world......
BOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!
hindusim of a hindu, spewing his hinduism about subject, hindu has no knowledge of. Prophet Abraham, Pbh, was about truth absolute, a hindu, denier of truth hats it from his guts.
Moohammed.....KATUWA.....wherefore dost thou prate on about Hinduism so? Art thou Paki?
Hun means great, Han means in greatness and hin, negative to both of them. hindu, a noun in negativity and hinduism system of negativity, nothing personal but every thing linguistic.
Let's rename acronyms for no reason. GPS now means "Global Public Square".
Fareed Zakaria is as nutty as his muslim brothers!
more like democracy is a WASTE of time
Reality disagrees.
I will take forever here , because they don't have much to work with.
I generally agree; the transition could take a long time. Unfortunately, during that time, a lot of things can go wrong in a really big way, such as Islamic Fundamentalism, for example. Many Middle Eastern people really have no tangible concept of what living in a truly free society is actually like, and as a consequence may be swayed into supporting what initially may appear to be better than what they had been used to, but which proves to be significantly less than what the West would like to see develop. Perhaps, with a little luck, modern technology such as computers and internet access will provide enough insight into the reality of life in democratic nations so a significant proportion of these nations' populations hang on to loftier goals.
The difference with the arab spring uprisings are with the people. With all the different tribes involved, each one has it's own agenda. All that has really taken place is the removal of a stailizing factor. Now you have no center of control and it will end up last man standing. Case in point. Libya
Thanks to hinduism of the west.
democracy takes time....ROTFLMAO
HELLO.........vietnam.....bosnia........iraq.......afganistan.
Thats different?
Fareek...POS
Bailout of the ones i've mentioned but stand back and watch this one?
silly billygoat
Reblogged this on HeadSpills.
Democracy is of people, by people & for the people. In absence of laws & disciplined behavior chaos & riots are always there till leadership emerges with consensus after venting anger & arrogance & environment of reason & rationality start taking over. After all anger never gives solution it is only outpour of pent up feelings of anger & arrogance. Same thing happens in family, city & each country. At national level it is more ferocious as victims of injustice & exploitation act in organized man slaughter & destruction of property that symbol of ill-gotten money or monument of dying regime. It has been seen in history of all democracies even USA which had to fight pitched battles with British rulers on different reason to secure freedom, liberty, freedom of religion, freedom of speech & peaceful assembly for prosperous & slavery free society with equality of all human beings resident or nonresidents living on American soil. Even in Malaria, there are rigors of enormous intensity before its control. It has become a natural phenomenon of democracy & disease but with education & technology; leadership of any country should emerge fast & organize the rising nation. It has happened & will happen in Egypt, Iraq & other countries switching over to democracy & its reforms. Any change is difficult even at individual level & national level is much more difficult as all people have to be brought together with consensus & we should appreciate & support it as it cements the inter relationship & better mutual understanding. It is imperfect world with imperfect people & for imperfect results subject to improvements by technologists, politicians, educationists & visionaries.t is a virtual birth of a new nation.
Wow such wisdom........... and vietnam and Khmer Rouge after math.......
hows that working out.
liberal lemm_ing
It takes a decade to change landscape, 50 years to change society and 100 years to change culture. If you want a quick one, DEMOCRACY will be DEMOCRAZY.
It is war for US interests and not for democracy.Why US did not like democracy in bahrain. Who stoped that movement. In the name of democracy USA is putting its new puppets all around.
Absurd article. Fareed Zakaria is either extremely naive or he has some hidden agenda of spreading islamic culture in non-islamic countries. can you show me a single islamic country where true democracy exists? Even the most democratic islamic nation like Turkey is moving towards radicalism. None of islamic countries have tolerance for any other faith. In all islamic countries, non-islamic population are decreasing (e.g. Egypt, Jordan, Afganistan, pakistan, bangladesh etc), by forcible conversion, love jehad, killings. On the contrary, by taking advantage of the liberal and welcoming mindset of the true democratic countries, muslim population are growing there at an alarming rate. As they grow, instead of integrating with the democratic societies, they tend to live in a ghetto-like environment, placing radical undemocratic demands. Just look at France, Switzerland, Sweden; how these countries are facing various problems from this community. Pretty soon USA and Canada will also go the same way if they tolerate this ghetto-like culture.
hinduism is the way of ghettos, non Muslims live with quotas in Muslim countries and Muslims are discriminated in hindu countries under the false banner of liberalism based not on facts but hindu propaganda.At least match what Muslim countries offer to their non Muslim societies and than spew your hinduism about Muslims and Islam.
Islam is discriminated against in India?! Imagine that! After the blood thirsty Muslims slaughtered tens of millions of Hindus during the Muslim Conquests!!!!
Mohammed, what? Do you think CNN is based in India? Why all the anti-Hindu propaganda, katuwa?!
Hun means great, Han means in greatness and hin, negative to both of them. hindu, a noun in negativity and hinduism system of negativity, nothing personal but every thing linguistic. hindus were punished for their racism and to punish a racist in his way is not a crime but noble to free humanity from their racism.
We know your love and love stories in IRAQ and VIETNAM
Turkey is not an Islamic nation, it was founded as a staunchly secular republic. And Turkey is not moving towards radicalism or anything, get real.
All arab spring has achived is a bunch of dead muslims. And the body count is going to go much higher.
and when the shtf here.....
same same........there will be a winner
These islamic animals will never understand freedom and democracy. All they understand is their death cult religion. There will be no end to their killing!!!
Truth pain for a hindu,
Kill the infidels where ever they may be. Lie in ambush for them....and blah blah blah....Right, Mohammed?
Nothing wrong to get rid of criminals, what is your problem, it is nothing but to exterminate parasites, bad for humanity.
Then you should have no problem with us wiping out Muslims.
This statement of quran is related to a war only.Before this war muslims were not allowed to fight.When non muslims attacked muslims this statement was reavealed to prophet Mohammad by God and after that Muslims got permission to go to war and fight with those who fight with them.Dont put this statement out on context.
What about the killing of christian Hitler, christain Bush in IRAQ.Who killed people in world war.Christians killed christians and jews.Have you counted world war casualities.How many are killed in IRAQ
It's God, Country and Family – that's the order people bail in crisis. We trade our faiths first, social order next – but will never betray family – that's why we're part of the animal kingdom.
May be a hindu in his hinduism but not human.
Mohammed al Dar: Hey, Paki. We killed your little b|+ch bin Laden in your own backyard. How about that, traitor? You wanna talk about criminals and parasites? Your government has leeched many millions of US dollars in foreign aid....and for WHAT? Brainwashed Muslim sc-um of the earth! Liars!
Ha, Ha hindu leach can think of nothing but money, soul, desire of a hindu for life, Muslim countries do not take any aid from USA or none but hindu west is benefits from Muslim help, bravery of Muslims brought end of USSR and rest assured end of western hinduism will be by Muslims too. Truth rules the world.
Anyone that believes in Judaism is already guilty of belief in a counterfeit religion since it borrowed numerous aspects from neighboring peoples' religions and folklore (e.g., Persia, Babylon, Greece, Egypt). Compound this with the fabrication of Christianity thousands of years later, which was just a counterfeit of Judaism, Compound this with the fabrication of Islam seven centuries after that, which was merely a counterfeit of Christianity and Judaism. What kind of retard believes in such tripe as Islam?!
hinduism of hindu plagiarizer, having nothing but hinduism, fabrication to make humanity their slaves, as by the pot head hindu santans, shamons seeking guidance being high on cannabis.Source criminality of hinduism racism around the glob. Teachings of Prophits are of the truth and hindus of shamans of Egyptian and Persian origin have no clue of it.
The Two-Party system we have in America is not democracy, it's a bollix. The 1% owns all the candidates. The rest of us are left to be abused, overcharged, neglected, and laid off. So our exporting of democracy is completely Pollyanna.
Freedom of speech and provision of basic human rights,these are the fundmental elements of democracy. The Arab Spring has basically,been the fight against totallarianism and the enthronement of equality. That said,it‘s been quoted that “Rome wasn‘t built in a day“;so it may be disheartening to watch clashes continue after the fall of autocratic rulers,but this is the road to Rome!
Human rights is nothing but a fraud to interference in other countries affairs. western hinduism labeled as democracy is nothing but absurdity of secular, self centered hindus to promote hinduism racism around the globe in defiance of human equality guaranteed by truth absolute.
When you will lose your children on this road to Rom you will really enjoy this journey.
The wars of choice in both Iraq and Afghanistan made this possible. Democracy will never flourish in the ME (not to be confused with Maine, though it won't flourish there either).
Well when everyone practically has the same bad cold, you have to learn to blow nose a different way.
my quote
Humanity Needs 'Religions of Freedom'=No Terror + Non-Adherents & Women free from violence & equal under law Secular and Religious and Reality + Freedom to Disagree,
Not 'Freedom of Religion'=Terror + Non-Adherents & Women Subject + Beating + Throwing the first Stone + Blasphemy the cornerstone of genocide. With the bonus of counter terror.
No culture has the right to demand a place in any society where their presence delivers 'Permanent Terror' and subjugation of women under the cover of 'Freedom of Religion' or for any other reason.
Time for Humanity to accept with relative certainty 'Freedom of Religion' has failed to deliver security, peace and well being – And demand the foundation text where it exists against Other particularly women are deleted from informing new citizens Other are less and necessarily destined for 'grievous harm'.
The Arab spring is a chill winter particularly for women because the 'young' unbeknownst to them, imbued with Western Ideology of 'free' and accountability of elites, were in fact taking apart the very walls which held a worst evil in check. They have got rid of evil and replaced it with an even greater evil – just ask the cafe owners on the streets of CAIRO – the ones without long beards.
The foundation text which drives society changes or nothing does.
Start it with elimination of hinduism, racism, source of hinduism terrorism against humanity. There is no place worst in illegality of hinduism, racism against humanity than hindered land india, hindus living in hinduism, racism by faith.
@Mohammad Frankly if you were at all honest you should wince everytime you hear your name. If Hinduism is an example then your namesake is not alone. In fact Mohammad if you actually had the courage to check, you would soon find the N?zi construction of Other is exactly the same. This is why we have Islamic 'permanent terror' Solace for not being alone – I think not. Not that anyone named Jesus should take comfort either.
To be honest with you, I am not sure what does Democracy mean? I think it is a big joke to talk about Democracy when people can not eat or drink. I think it is a big joke when we try to impose Democracy on someone? I think it is a big joke to keep the mouth shut when we know we are doing the wrong things and thinking to ourselves we are doing the right thing. The worse of all, when we know that Democracy is not really really working but we lie to ourselves and believe it is the right way.........
So US or the west should leave the other country alone,democracy will come . By bombing or any military mean does not help. The rest of the world ,people is not dumber than you .They know what is good for themself. Peaceful revolution cause less life than what the west did with brutal force
> So US or the west should leave the other country alone
I agree, we can start by canceling their aid.
> By bombing or any military mean does not help
Actually it does. That’s how the U.S. and many other countries have done it.
> The rest of the world ,people is not dumber than you
I beg to differ after reading this comment.
> They know what is good for themselves. Peaceful revolution cause less life than what the west did with brutal force
Really…really? These cultures are older than the U.S. and are hundreds of years behind in their social practices. What peaceful revolutions are you referring to? I’ve yet to see one.
that arab summer is next
Short answer: nothing.
Arab spring has achieved nothing good ! Islamists are taking control, Sharia law is beeing implemented.
Remember Islam is the religion of hate.
Every criminal labels La, the truth as hate in his hinduism, Truth is factual and hinduism is a fabrication of pot head hindus, followed by their hindus like slaves.
I agree with you, Fareed: "Let's cut them some slack. It's only been a year." I feel President Obama is prepared to do so. The trouble is, there are benighted elements in this country that will predictably overreact when the Arab Spring resolves itself into a series of Islamic republics of various descriptions, whether they be radical (read "hostile") or not. We need to beware of our own cold war mentality that has gotten us into trouble so often.
Excellent connclusion. For centuries Arab citizens have been totally ignored in the West – by both its leaders and the media – To qoute Marwan Bishara "the US sees the region through the prisms of Israel, oil, terrorism, or radical Islamism." I see the similiarities with your concluision and his abervations. Arabs from the street are not just a mirage. They have the capibility to give a lesson in peace and stibility, and drive fear and loathing away.
"Achieve"...? It is a major mistake to equate change generally with achievement. What did the black plague "achieve"? What did the holocaust "achieve"? "Change" does NOT generally equate with achievement.
Fact of the matter is that the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamic fundamentalist organizations (including Hamas) have justifiably used the "democratic process" as a means to gain political control. The "Arab Spring" is not a democratic movement. It is the culmination of decades of frustration, fueled mostly by deteriorating economic prospects and geometrically increasing poverty rates. Democracy has emerged as the vehicle of choice that fundementalist groups will use to gain legitimacy. Poverty, despair,and hopelessness make breeding grounds for radicalism, and as such, the popular majority of Arabs are indeed fundamentalist believers. Not all radical and militant, but fundamentalist nevertheless. It is obvious that the "democratic process" will bring about a more "uniform" political landscape in the M.E....what is interesting is that standing and fallen regimes certainly shared a common link, in that public policy (including economic and financial policy) was infested with corruption, greed, and most important lacking any sort of clear strategic planning with regards to combatting civil woes...in contrast, the Islamic fundementalist groups have emerged from the "political darkness" with cohesion, discipline, strong financial fundementals and clear strategic goals (which are being met).
Regarding the message that Mr. Zakharia's article conveys, I think that he has looked at the issue from a very naive viewpoint. You need to stop looking at historical anachronisms and focus more on the reality of today. History will teach you nothing here. In very simple terms, you need to come to terms with the fact that the poor have rebelled, and the very same democracy (which for almost a century has been a new name for "crusade" in the western political dictionary) has brought about a wave of fundementalism that can't be ignored. The. Very idea that we need to give "time" for democracy to mature is silly. Democracy comes in many shapes and forms, and inthink it is accurate to state that democracy as the west has come to embrace it, is not compatible with the religious preferences of the Arabs and Muslims in general. I think that the generic term democracy will be used in order to give the new power elite legitimacy, whilst establishing their own sociology-political system according to Islamic principles (however they are interpreted by the clergy).
I think that what will make an interesting read is how Israel will position itself inn this new order? Is it's very survival under severe threat? Furthermore, will the new regimes "play ball" with the puppet masters of global economic influence, or are we looking at a genuine, new economic order?
As for Egypt, Libya, Yemen, and Tunisia. Well, good luck with that. Worse, much worse has yet to come!
One has to look deeper in to western claim on democracy, "power of choice", west never had democracy but aristocracy, hinduism, racism and masters and slaves relation ship, people of lower status by tribes in following of Pharoahnic hinduism, racism, human as gods. Most touted democracy of Romans was nothing but monopoly of 2% of Roman citizens protected by incest in line with hindu Pharaoh's way of secession. On the other hand teachings of Moses, Jesus and Mohammad Pbt were of individual freedom of choice in truth absolute. Islamic (shalom) teachings are directed at individuals, such as it is commanded to human, not just of Islamic faith but to whole humanity by Allah the limit most high including the prophets Pbt. "I MADE YOU MY ASSISTANT (kHALIPHA) ON EARTH AND YOU THANK ME NOT", West never had clue of democracy but plagiarized and corrupted from Islamic teachings, not subordinated to truth fundamental but left on the mercy of human soul, desire to manipulate and control humanity like animals by the powerful, without any accountability in truth. Yes there will be democracy in Muslim countries but based on truth absolute and hindu plagiarized western democracy based on hindu soul, desire has no room in Islamic world.
I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster. And your father smelled of pig intestines.
hindusism of a hindu, by the way, hindus are followers of secular ism, self center ism and pig means nothing but secular or self centered. nothing personal but linguistically correct label for a hindu.
For your information Islam existed before hindus corrupted it to enslave humanity, by the way to clear your hinduism ignorance about Islam, draw a pyramid upward and drop a pyramid on same axis up side down and high light the meeting points of them, and be surprised what you see. Every pyramid has a circle around it,try to figure out what does a circle of 360* means or ask Anderson Cooper for explanation, if he knows any thing.
Mahound the Paki is at his anti-Hindu rant again, as if the entire world consisted of Hindi Indians! HA HA! Yes, islam is such a wonderful gateway to democracy.....oh, I mean a means to continue oppressing people, especially women. You muslim monkeys need a scapegoat for your uncontrollable s&xual urges so you r@pe your 2nd class women and then blame the r@pe on them so you can stone them to death! IDIOTS! And what are you talking about "freedom of choice"? From what? STATE-SPONSORED RELIGION?! DOLT! And not just ANY religion, but a COUNTERFEIT, ripped off of two preexisting religions (Judaism & Christianity), which were themselves ripped off of preexisting religions. You have NO claim to truth, STONE AGE monkey man!
No need to be a hindu, but, be a huamn, Muslims have never claimed to be god of hindu's, Monkey, better get some education, knowledge, before spewing your hinduism about Muslims, be a human not a hindu in line with god of hindus, Monkey.
Religions are hinduism, absurdity of hindus, and falling for hinduism of pot head shamans is absurdity of hindus, Islam never is hinduism, religion but Theen, the way of truth, a hindu has no clue of, but sunk in his hinduism, ignorance to be slave of his pot head shaman snatan, man god to be his slave in his filth of self center ism, secularism.
Mohammed al-Swine-Entrails...you need to chill out. Watch some Monty Python and some South Park. (or don't you get those programs where you live in your @$$-backward country???) You will surely wake up and realize your mistake in falling for one of the oldest mind tricks in the book.....RELIGION. D'OH!
Moohammed: Muslims have never claimed to be god of Hindus????
Oh, then please explain the tens of millions SLAUGHTERED in the MUSLIM CONQUESTS of India!
If so was true, there would have no hindu left in India like natives of north America, slaughtered and converted to hinduism absurdity called Christianity but hindus of European decent but of Egyptian and Persian origin.
You are WRONG about Native Americans. For one thing, they existed in North AND South American continents. For another thing, even though their numbers have been greatly reduced by systematic genocide by European and later, American (and yes, Christo-Fascist) forces, they are not extinct. Some interbred with other races, others retained their more-or-less pure Native races. Now WHO needs to read more before he speaks?
And for your information, you are chatting with one of those Native Americans who is descended from mixed breeding with the "conquerors" so I know what I am talking about.
The one who did not accepted hinduism absurdity called Christianity, Pharoahnic hindu savior ism were slaughtered and forced to adapt their masters hindu christian names along with absurdity called Christianity. Muslims never did it any where in the world, hindus are still in majority in India. Please get some lessons in true history of humanity.
Hope you know true history of native Americans than to be hindu of manipulated mixed history. By the way here is a question for a mixed native American. Kochi Indian, Sue Indian, translate them, for your information they all have literal meanings.
What are you talking about, Moe? I don't even pretend to be a Christian! Atheist is more to the point, although you can also count me among those who don't give a #h|+ as long as you're not trying to shove your "turn or burn" religion crap down my throat.
"Hindus are still in majority in India."
Well, I wonder why?! Maybe because they were there FIRST before islam was even made up by your self-serving, opportunistic "prophet"!!! Hinduism predates your phony islam by probably as much as 6000 years!
Also, ever hear of Siddhartha Gautama Buddha? Predates your phony islam by about 1000 years!
hinduism of a hindu, Buddha, do you know the meanings of this word?, Tibetan Buddha was borne in Swat valley of Pakistan and of a hindu decent, A hindu User and abuser of knowledge gained from ten tribes of Israel, known as Pushthoon, after their holy book Pushtha in Afghanistan and Pakistan. He promoted nothing but hinduism absurdity of racism in line with Pharoah's, kings as gods and priest as a god and Favorite of hindu criminal kings of the Romans, every one of them made their subjects pray to them as gods, Your post is nothing but proof of your atheism, self center ism, otherwise known as pig ism, having no knowledge of truth but hinduism fabrication in your soul, desire.
D'OH! Pakistan did not exist when Buddha was alive (nor did islam). Why do religious freaks always have such trouble with temporal logic (time lines)?
For your information Islam existed before hindus corrupted it to enslave humanity, by the way to clear your hinduism ignorance about Islam, draw a pyramid upward and drop a pyramid on same axis up side down and high light the meeting points of them, and be surprised what you see. Every pyramid has a circle around it,try to figure out what does a circle of 360* means or ask Anderson Cooper for explanation, if he knows any thing ab out 360* he propagates.
Yeah, right! You're trying to convince me that islam existed in the 6th century B.C.? HA HA HA! Judaism wasn't even written down until at least 4 centuries after Hinduism existed in its earliest forms. And we all know that islam didn't exist until 7 centuries after Jesus.
So anyway, Moe, now that you know I am in the U.S., let's level the playing field here. Where are you from? Pakistan?
I meant 4 MILLENIA for Judaism....not 4 centuries.
I do not render my loyalties to no one but truth absolute, one of human and resident of earth till my last breath. believing in way of truth but no Hinduism, religions, By the way before Prophet Abraham Pbh, their was Noha, pbh, before hindu's manipulated truth to enslave humanity. So Islam existed way before hinduism, denial of truth was ever invented.
I am "human and resident of earth" but I do not ask your loyalty, only your locality.
Noah is a jfolk tale, a story that the Jews ripped off from Babylon. Babylonians had the "flood" story of Gilgamesh written down probably 1100 years before the Jews, so who is copying? Hmmmmmmm,,, Also Babylon had Hammurabi's Code written down before Jews had Ten Commandments...so again who was copying from whom? Not to mention who is copying from Judaism......oh yes, islam.
Look for history of settlement of Babylonia, from Egypt to Iraq, makes perfect sense, one reference in fact and other in hinduism buy hindus, ignorents of Babylonia. One truth by the prophets and other hinduism by ignorant hindus in manipulated form.About my location, do not worry I AM ON THIS EARTH.
Come on, Mohammed, do you know what it means to "chill out," HABIBI?
You can always claim that economic conditions are what spur revolutions because based on history they usually do. If anyone recalls the winters leading up to the French Revolution were particularly bad (at one point the price of bread was fixed by the government, which did nothing to address the shortage). This does not mean that nothing positive came out of it or that any political change can claim to be wholly good or bad. The point Zakaria is trying to make is that without an outspoken/absolute authority you actually have to deal with tons of people who don't agree with each other in the same room trying to get things done: Specifically (I think) he is trying to make the point that when that happens it is obviously never pretty, but such is the price of giving everyone a voice. Regardless of how temporary that freedom might be, the fact that the countries are not simply imploding into complete anarchy in a matter of days speaks volumes about what a different place the middle east is today. Awesome job Zakaria! I never thought I could go to a major news site and find a very serious discussion of world affairs, that is so informed yet careful.
When I see the protesters in Cairo and compare them to the retards in the Occupy movement, there is such a contrast. The Occutards are a bunch of spoiled, middle class, ne-er-do-wells who have blown their freedom on drugs and sloven life styles. The arab protesters are truly oppressed - they want their FREEDOM. And when they get it, they'll WORK.
Fared,
Just because your the muslim, you are trying find excuses . You are comparing 100 years back to the modern time
and reasoning that democracy takes time. What about East Germany, Nepal, all eastern european countres..
where ever there are muslims there are probelms period.
Bob,
You are absolutely right. If a religion in its essence teaches revenge, to avenge blood, how it will ever evolve?
Not to mention that reports and other TV channels prove and write that these revolutions are instigated and planned from outside, especially in the case of Syria were certain protestors were paid to go out on the street. Therefore, out 30 million Syrians you hardly see 1 million protesting which is hardly the majority despite the effort of news fakers to multiply the number of protestors. Hence, imposing democracy by force doesn't work.
Have you visited east europeon countries and seen what democracy has rewarded them.Just corruption and chaos.
Maybe another 14 centuries of democracy development in Islam world will prove that Fareed's assumption is gravely WRONG. It just gave some Muslims false hope without any realization of true Democracy.
True Democracy is totally against Sharia.
One has to look deeper in to western claim on democracy, "power of choice", west never had democracy but aristocracy, hinduism, racism and masters and slaves relation ship, people of lower status by tribes in following of Pharoahnic hinduism, racism, human as gods. Most touted democracy of Romans was nothing but monopoly of 2% of Roman citizens protected by incest in line with hindu Pharaoh's way of secession. On the other hand teachings of Moses, Jesus and Mohammad Pbt were of individual freedom of choice in truth absolute. Islamic (shalom) teachings are directed at individuals, such as it is commanded to human, not just of Islamic faith but to whole humanity by Allah the limit most high including the prophets Pbt. "I MADE YOU MY ASSISTANT (kHALIPHA) ON EARTH AND YOU THANK ME NOT", West never had clue of democracy but plagiarized and corrupted from Islamic teachings, not subordinated to truth fundamental but left on the mercy of human soul, desire to manipulate and control humanity like animals by the powerful, without any accountability in truth. Yes there will be democracy in Muslim countries but based on truth absolute and hindu plagiarized western democracy based on hindu soul, desire has no room in Islamic world. No need to kosher a pig in hindu Maggi ism, trickery.
One has to wonder, if a hindu has a brain to wash or senseless like Pharaoh's considering brain to be use less part of the body but Goad, the belly , corrupted to be called god in hinduism to fool humanity.
Your sentences are so obfuscated that they hardly make sense. You are exhibiting symptoms of syntax dyslexia, where people throw words together just for shock effect.
Yes, they have a shock effect for a person without knowledge of history, not of mental dyslexia but of years of studies of subject. from corruption of original language "Latin" to corruption of truth by crocks to enslave humanity under the cover of religions. Do not be impressed from what you see but look for under current causing the waves. It is not what you see but how you understand it.
Honey, what has hinduism got to do with American democracy? Are you still drinking that koolaid?
coriolana: Mohammad thinks that anyone who is not muslim is a hindu. Makes me wonder what happened to the old standby, "infidel." Don't muslims use that term anymore? Or perhaps Moe doesn't read his quran as often as he should.
.
Mohammad should study English some more before commenting in English...
"teachings of Moses, Jesus and Mohammad Pbt were of individual freedom of choice"
No freedom of choice in Judaic/Islamic law. Do what I say. Don't do what I say. (Or rather, do/don't do what I'm telling you that this alleged "god" said, even though you have no way of corroborating my story that this alleged "god" actually appeared to me in the mountains/cave when I was there all ALONE, nor that this alleged "god" actually TOLD my anything). It is fact, based on modern knowledge, which was completely unknown to ancient, supersti-tious peoples, that malnutrition, particularly deliberate FASTING, can cause HALLUCINATIONS, both visual and auditory. Also ancient peoples had no knowledge of mental disorders such as schizophrenia, which are characterized by intense audio/visual hallucinations!
No need to be hindu, denier of truth aoutb my post, read what it says,
On the other hand teachings of Moses, Jesus and Mohammad Pbt were of individual freedom of choice in truth absolute.
KEY WORD, "IN TRUTH" absolute 360*. rest of your post is your hinduism in your soul, desire.
Spare the world your brainwashing. Go blow yourself up. Allahu akbar! HA HA HA HA!
One has to wonder, if a hindu has a brain to wash or senseless like Pharaoh's considering brain to be use less part of the body but Goad, the belly , corrupted to be called god in hinduism to fool humanity. it is an insult to be human to be hindu ignorant of the dark ages.
I love it! Mohammed, you responded to yourself! HA HA HA! Come on dude, lighten up. What are you Pakistani, Egyptian, Iranian. Saudi, etc.? One thing's for sure, you're one (stereotypically) angry Muslim. That's why I loathe all the Abrahamic religions...because they are all so belliigerent!
Very hindu, superficial and artificial, no facts, truth but all soul, desire, the way of a hindu.
Sharia supports all systems if they benefit humans. Democracy may be one of them. Democracy obtained with gun(Syria) is forbidden in Islam.
then live as a slave. We here really don't give a flying rat's hindquarters anymore.
why you feel pain when Hamas try to get freedem in the same way as Syrian people
Democracy has brought nothing to east Europe, go and ask people about the living standard before and after democracy and have a visit to china also to see the results of dictatorship.USA and Europe are begging before china for Money. China has proved that Democracy has failed
You are right .It will take at least 5-10 years to get a stable democracy. For short term , thing look bad but long term there is hope
you look very optimistic. you have to wait for centuries
Fareed,
I must ask why do you call your article Arab spring? It's rather Islamic spring? Who came to power in Tunisia? Who is in power in Egypt? and soon in Libya. Please remember not all Arabs are Muslims so besides the Muslims the rest of the Arabs got "Fall".
I am Tunisian and I totally agree with you! this is an Islamic spring no doubt. I grow up and been educated in Tunisia and only left the country 5 years go, I was chocked by the outcome of the October Election. The last 50-60 years of Tunisian history did not prepare us to this kind of outcome. Tunisia was the most progressist, modern country in the region. II don't recognize my country or the people I grow up with. I really don't know how this could have happen in Tunisia... we made few steps back . Many of us regret the former president and his dictatorship at least security and economic growth were granted then. Now people are struggling, unemployment is higher than ever and foreign investors leaving the country!
Enjoy democracy as being enjoyed by Iraqi people.
This spring is initiated by USA to have its own people in these countries.Why this spring has falied in bahrain is a proof who is initiated this spring.USA puts weak people in govt so that it can rule over them. Read the treaty made by dictator Musharaf and pakistani president Zardari with the help of Rice( read her book).USA puts corrupt and weak people to rule over them.
What has it achieved? Easy: anarchy, lawlessness, fear and murder. I hope they're happy!
if you get democracy with terrorism you will enjoy such things definitly
Forging enduring governments is never neat and clean. The US Revolution wasn't and neither has any other change in government been done without violence and bloodshed.
أكد وزير الخارجية التونسي رفيق عبد السلام اليوم السبت أن حكومة بلاده اتخذت قرارا بطرد السفير السوري في تونس، فيما أعلن الرئيس التونسي أن بلاده سحبت اعترافها بشرعية حكم الأسد، وذلك في وقت دعا فيه رئيس البرلمان العربي سالم الدقباسي الدول العربية لطرد السفراء السوريين المعتمدين لديها.
وقال عبد السلام في مقابلة مع الجزيرة، إن قرار الحكومة التونسية جاء احتجاجا على المجازر التي جرت وتجري اليوم في حمص وفي غيرها من المدن السورية، وأوضح أن وزارته ستقوم بتنفيذ القرار في القريب العاجل وستستدعي سفيرها في دمشق.
وتوقع الوزير أن تحذو معظم الدول العربية حذو بلاده في هذه الخطوة، وخص بالذكر مصر والمغرب ودول الخليج، وقال "نحن ننسق مع شركائنا في الدول العربية".
Have you forgotten the blood in Iraq.Please add USA and Europe to your good list.
sounds like you are not happy please leave the U.S. I have seen your type before complaining about this great country while you reside here
Throw the first stone the culture who has not blood on their hands?
The list is all inclusive – so although hypocrisy is an integral part of being human – on this question nobody is clean.
You of course can claim relativity – a million is of course is worth more than 100,000, 100, 10, 1 – Guess it depends on which side of the numbers you are on – and if as the victor you have the right to rewrite history.
Why I cannot complain against a country where I am living.if a country is going in a wrong direction democracy give me right to speak Mr dictator.
If what's happening in Tunisia is the Arab definition of democracy, I don't want democracy!
Our Issue in the Arab world is that the change was brutal, our politicians, our elite were not prepared to it. Worst Tunisians in general were not ready for it and once they had what they were aspirating too (freedom of speech and "democracy") they did not know how to manage it! We in Tunisia are paying a very high price for it now and only time will tell us if it was worth it. So far I doubt it...
I do not believe that democracy will ever work in the Muslim world. The people are too barbaric and uncivilized to accept the compromise that is required for democracy to work. In the US, if our party loses the election, we accept it and try to vote the winner out at the next election. In the Middle East, if your party loses you get your guns and RPG's and try to kill the winners.
In order for democracy to work, the people need to truly accept the separation of church and state, and I don't see this ever happening in the middle east.
Civility is result of obedience to La, the limit in truth, not as you perceive it in your secular ism, self centrism, a absurdity of shamans under the inductance of cannabis.
Hindu of hindi hinduism, hindu pot head shaman hinduism of hindu hindu hinduism. S T F U Retard!
Restarted, perfect word to define a hindu.
Restarted? Ahhh. Makes so much sense Moe!
Moe, what other talking points has your prophet programmed into your limited mind? You sound like a broken record.
It is not a broken record as you assume in your hinduism but deficiencies in hindus understand mechanism.
Your thoughts would probably be clearer if you were a pot head, Moe.
No thanks, I am better off without hindu sanatans, shamans source of revelations.
you are also programmed by US media. you will never know it. At least we know we are programmed by Quran
Have your forgotten german babaric behaviour and the english barbaric behaviour in india and other parts of word.you have to be barbaric like Mr Bush.If you dont have barbaric people democracy never works in your country.
Compare china and india.They started 60 years before with democracy in india and dictatorship in china.The result is obvious and can be seen easily even by a blind man from streets of india and china. Nothing will be obtained from democracy of arabic countries except blood of innocent people.
The reason their attempts at their democracies will fail for the time being is because they started from the bottom up. A revolution needs to start near the top of the food chain, with the people who are just below those in power working the masses into a frenzy to overthrow the tyrant, and then installing themselves as stable leaders. When the Proletariat leads the revolution, it leads to the French Revolution.
Democracy is a concept that is foreign to Islam. Islam is about Islam, submission to Mohammed's teachings, Sharia Law, and the conversion or subjegation of all non-Muslims. There's nothing in there about democracy. Zakaria can't be that dim. This was never going to happen.
if democracy is only know to christians why US supports dictators in saudia, bahrain, dubai, pakistan. Pakistan dictators have enjoyed US friendship so much not even enjoyed by best friend Israel.
WHATEVER just stay over there. We do not need anymore of these crazy maniacs in our society. All I do is see them crying screaming and attacking.
Founding fathers of USA based independence of USA on principal of truth, not hinduism of inhuman secularism, self centrism, hindus, enemies of American fundamental need to stay away from USA with their absurdity of secularism .
Hinduism of hindu hindi hindu hinduism hindu hinduism pot head shamans hinduism of hindu hinduism.....blah blah blah
Why wait? The gloves are clearly on the table. We need to attack now, or face a nuclear first strike by the ragheads.
hindu, desperadoes.
Oh please! What has the Arab Spring achieved? Exactly nothing.
It will never achieve any thing.India has achieved nothing with democratic spring.Campare 60 years of india and china with same start in 1948
Democracy in the US didn't happen right away after the Revolutionary war. We still aren't entirely a democracy. It was only in the 20th century that blacks were treated democratically. After the war we still had slavery. We had the civil war. We had lawlessness. It doesn't happen over night. These people that are criticizing the Arab Spring are koombaya dreamers. They have way too many fantasies about what democracy is without knowing how it actually works.
Hahahaha you fools on here that are saying the West is democratic because it is christian are wack jobs! You haven't studied history and feel like you can make a claim like that. Historians will tell you that the process took generations and it isn't because of christianity. Just look at how much of the West is now non religious and atheist nevermind non christian. It's about resources, economies, the right things happening at the right moments. It was an accident. I'm sure the in the revolutionary war americans weren't expecting to see that a black man will be president. So take your self loving into your bedroom and shut it.
Cross and swastika are sign's of hindu Pharaoh's based on hindu racism, They are hindu racist by faith playing humanity with fabrication called Christianity, not mentioned in the holy book, they barrow Democracy in limit of truth from Islam but run it subordinated to human soul, desire. western democracy is hinduism in deception,
Crescent moon and star are symbols of ancient pagan religions found in Middle East before they were supplanted by more recently fabricated islam. Can't deny your history, huh?
Crescent is part part of original teachings of Islam from the time of Adam and corrupted by hindu's of Egypt in to a god. Crescent represents true divide of earth as a spear, not as a circle assumed by hindus of Egypt. Circle is converted in to pyramids by hindus and corrected in form of Qiblah in Mekkah in Saudi Arabia consisting of three pillars representing a scale. Scale is a divine commandment and pyramids built around hindu cross are of ignorant Pharaoh's, bases for pot head santatans , shamons as and Kings as man gods for hindusd and racism..
islam did not EXIST until just 1300 years ago! Man, you are stupid!
What a hindu, ignorant statement, do you mean truth never existed before some 1400 years or so. Have a look at stone hinge in England, circle 360*. Nothing can be created without truth absolute 360* and nothing will ever exist without it. Quantum Physics.
Mohammad: You can't just keep making things up as you go....and making them retroactive.....which is typical of religious freaks, whether christian, muslim, etc. By the way, have you ever noticed how all tribes on the planet have come up with their own god(s)? Some have done so independently of any knowledge of Jewish god (like Native Americans, for example). Therefore, either every single religion invented by man has SOME truth, or every single religion invented by man is absolutely WRONG! And ALL religions were invented by man. Otherwise "god" would have written "his" message in permanent ink in the sky, arranged geostatically by region so that every man on the planet would know once and for all that "god" is real and there would be no need for translation. If "god" had done this, it would have been obvious that no man had tampered with or maniuplated the message. But alas, this did not happen! THINK!!!!!
Making up? lake of knowledge does not make a person right. What I wrote is of years of studies, unfortunately a hindu does not have knowledge to know, why he is called a hindu as any knowledge about origination this word. Very sorry state of affair.
"Years of studies" Mohammad? People who are brainwashed by a tool such as the quran cannot be called upon to defend the quran because they are already biased. Circular logic is not acceptable. Invalid argument. THINK, monkey!
Democracy is MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE from any government that is based on religion (regardless of which religion). At least the US has separation of church and state, whereas no Islamic government that imposes Sharia Law can claim that.
A Dar: HIndu of hindu hinduism hindu plagiarize hindu hindi stoner pot head shaman hindu hinduism buddha hindu gada hindu hashish....blah blah blah
As they claim, 'we trust in God", God is truth absolute, they never denied but hinduism, religions in form of corruption of truth. Founding fathers did not deny truth, but western hindu democracy is in denial of it.
Right on Aziz! How dare anyone attribute democracy to one single religion. Ridiculous to even entertain that argument (and I've spent altogether too much time doing exactly that right now)
Even if these countries end up with another dictatorship and not democracy. The revolution DID acheive something. It showed the citizenry that people power can make a change. Perhaps all the ingredients arent there yet but one day they will and another revolution will happen. People won't so apathetic anymore. They recognize that power is in their hands.
Whats the use of having a peoples revolution when the power ends up in the hands of those who promise anything to get into power then turn around and destroy the enablers?
Fact is how many revolutions does it need to gain true Democracy – it is a fallacy that politics is an evolutionary process where 'good' will overcome 'evil' and commonsense and the rational will defeat the irrational. We all hope it will but in reality does it? Look around us – take Pakistan, Malaysia, and Indonesia, China, Russia, etc..
Unless those of us who do not want Democracy chained by an adjective realize, as much as those apposed to Democracy clearly do, that allowing within the midst of a State a culture whose foundation text is diametrically opposed to the very nature of the State the Stateit will be destroyed – the same goes for trying to incorporate Democratic ideals over the top of foundation text which clearly define Other as evil as in Afghanistan and Iraq and why Democracy is failing in Pakistan – you either exclude such foundation text from informing new citizens Other is evil or simply Democracy fails.
So Democracy in these countries where the so called Arab spring has occurred will not, will not exist without change to the peoples foundation text particularly regards women – it has always been that simple.
The only thing which will be achieved is blood of innocent people. Fighting against your government is terrorism no matter how much you differ with it. All non Muslim countries have rules against Islam what should Muslims do if they differ with them.
With all the respect to Fareed, he has been wrong on more than one occasion. It will take another century for the Arab world to become democratic. They want the democracy but they are not ready for it. Fundamentalism and democracy dont go together. US government keep overthrowing the regimes just to find out that the next elected is even worse.
True – democracy is a process. It will definitely be interesting to see how democracy and fundamental islamic beliefs coexist, if at all. The islamists are fighting for their right to practice their religion, which is a fundamental democratic tenet. But, fundamentally, can it allow for other religions in a truly democratic way? Or are they carving out their own form of democracy? Also, the problem with the US is manifest destiny – the ideal of democracy promoted as a conduit for capitalism. Lets not confuse the two.
According Plato, "democracy" or the impression of such is just a stage in a circle. The US' democracy is changing and people call a two-party dictatorship. There's really no difference between the political parties in important issues. The US has become into an oligarchy; just see who rules the US: the wealthiest and powerful; the big oil corporations, the huge contractors and others whose stakeholders are wealthy politicians. As the show goes, the middle class is dissapearing... 1% vs 99%. Think about it. do you really want that form of democracy?
As per democracy in Egypt: in the first place, democracy is an utopic state; the most empowered will always chose the president and they will crash the others. Under stable conditions one could reach something favourable, but our conditions and the Israel issue, forget about democracy or anything that resembles it in the short and middle term; religion and the quantification of natural resources (which is ridiculous and unrealistic) complicate everything. Democracy is a nice word that does not mean anything other than the hidden agendas of the superpower; just look at the US and the current state when there's no privacy, the government can do anything they want, disregard of another fancy utopic phrase "international law", pillaging the poorer, the richer being more reach, imposing a materialistic and western unsustainable way of life to others... are you sure you want that?
Marcus, you speak much truth. Thank you, sir. However, at least US has separation of church and state. No islamic country imposing sharia law can claim that.
hindu boy loving Plato never had any Idea of democracy, but Pharoahnic hinduism of masters and slaves. way of hindus, he himself was a pot head shaman and was prayed to as man god by hindus of the time. What you mention on his name is not his, but some one else writings, way after him, like ever changing bible.
It's good to point out the flaws and try to fix them. But I ask you: where else on this planet can multiple cultures, races, genders exist in relative peace, and enjoy the same rights under law? It's not a perfect system by any means. But the whole idea of democracy allows for change. Stop complaining, start creating.
Revolution is a continuous and futile cycle. Just read Orwell's "Animal Farm." That says it all!
What has the Arab Spring accomplished? You mean besides putting nothing? Even more Muslims killing each other over absolutely nothing. Go Muslims!!
Jeffersonian democracy will never exist under the banner of allah. It was a blessing for a period of time to the United States of America from the one and true living God.
Jeffersonian democracy does not exist in USA but hindu democracy based on soul,,desire, it is not mater what they show in their hinduism but what maters is what they hide behind their hindu democracy. Watch out Pundits Pandora box.
Have you seen the crime rate in democratic America (US). What type of blessing you are talking about.
This is one of the few times when Zakaria has had an opinion that I can agree with. Perhaps he is learning.
democracy isn't the end goal Fareed .... democracy is a governmental system that can be abused just like any other governmental system ... it is the values behind revolution and/or governmental system that provide agendas and outcomes. So, do a bit more in depth homework ... and then you will understand why there is a difference between France, the US, China, India and Russia .... then you can move on to Mexico and Venzuela.
Mr Fareed is working on US agenda, he cannot understand what he is writng. His writings are just like the false report of weapons of mass destruction of IRAQ which was to please foolish americans to invade other countries with a complete house vote.
Fareed Zakaria's argument is based on a totally false premise-namely, that the people that run these middle east countries want democracy. Eygpt is run by the military and if the Muslim Brotherhood get into power they certainly won't establish a democracy; also, Libya is run by a group with direct ties to AlQaeda. They also don't want democracy. What you will ultimately get in these middle east countries is more tyrannical regimes more than likely controlled by the United States- or should I say the globablists that Fareed Zakaria represents.
Thanks for writing the truth
Fareed,
Your analysis is so very shallow, to match your interest and your point of view. Very simple but most important thing you forgot to mention is that we are dealing with Muslim. This is a religious that keep their people in the 6th century and will never allow them to develop to a democracy, so please stop writing this message of hope for the Arab Country. There is no hope for them.
western democracy is of Pharoahnic dark ages, based on soul, desire, it is better to be in 6th century as you hind, than to be slaves of pot head western goons like Pharoah man gods. hindus of men have no place to criticize freedom of Islam in truth.
Democracy obtained with terror will not give any result.Have you not seen the fate of democratic govt of HAMAS.
"Experimental Democracy" has failed in India. An experiment that was being shoved down India's throat by western countries too eager to propagate their own values on a country that was trying to decolonize itself while trying to shed the communist skin of being a Soviet ally. India was thus trapped. What has become evident now is that this "Experimental Democracy" has marginalized the country. The marginalized groups of the country – Dalits and ‘backward’ castes/classes, indigenous ‘tribal’ people and religious minorities have been disenfranchised. "The belief that corruption is the important issue in the country is shared only by the minority living in urban areas and towns who have been beneficiaries of economic liberalization policies mandated by western countries. The most important challenges of Indian society remain as follows: justice, social and economic equality and equal access to certain standards of life for all Indians. “While India seems too eager to please its western masters and put on a progressive and softer face for CNN for public consumption, people see through it. The consequences of this "Band – Aid" approach will be brutal for India geo-politically when it realizes that the GDP statistics that it has been relying to gage its progress has not amounted to much in the long run.
India and Indian will never be free unless and until they shed hinduism, racism among their won people. Indian democracy is nothing but a fake democracy, built not on equality of her population but on hinduism, racism of dark ages.
Everything is relative. India may not be perfect but compared to Pakistan and their sick Muslims they are Gods.
Every hindu, ignorant thinks himself a god in his kingdom of hinduism, ignorance.
The slumdog millionare dump
Called India, dump of illegality.
I am not a hindu. I do know many Hindus who are wonderful people. This guy "Muhamad A DAr" has nothing but venom for these peaceful people. I think this is a typical Muslim who turns truth to lies and lies to truth.
,hindu is person defines in negativity, Hun for great, han for in greatness and hin, to be in negativity. to both of them. word hinduism is not of a holy nature but a system of negativity. very hard for a hindu to understand. A person is not a hindu, unless he acts in negativity.
Will Iran retaliate if attacked? No, Fareed, they are just going to stand there and take it up the rectum you moron.
Who let the dogs out ?
الفلسطينيّون في العراق : الجريمة المنسيّة
شبكة المنصور
عبد الكريم بن حميدة / تونس
انخفض عدد الفلسطينيّين في العراق من 34 ألفا إلى 6 آلاف لاجئ فقط في غضون سنوات الاحتلال الأمريكيّ التسع. بعضهم حطّت به رحلة اللجوء في البرازيل، وبعضهم الآخر في الأرجنتين .. وكثير منهم ما زال قابعا في أحد المخيّمات على الحدود مع سوريا أو الأردن..
ضاقت بهم أرض العراق بعد أن كانت لهم ظهيرا وملاذا.. وغدر بهم الشقيق قبل الصديق.. وعجز شرفاء العراق عن حمايتهم، فحملوا حقائب الرحيل.. وشرعوا في سفرة تيه جديدة.
من شتات إلى شتات.. ومن لجوء إلى آخر..
ذلك شأن الفلسطينيّين منذ نكبوا.. وذلك شأنهم منذ انتكسوا..
في العراق المحتلّ يتعرض الفلسطينيّون لسلسلة من الانتهاكات التي تطال حقوقهم المدنيّة والقانونيّة، مثلما يتعرّضون للتضييقات والملاحقات التي تصل حدّ استهداف ممتلكاتهم وأرواحهم.
عماد عبد الرحمن حمّاد آخر الضحايا الفلسطينيّين في العراق.. اعتقلوه.. وعذّبوه.. ثمّ قتلوه.
تهمته الكبرى أنّه.. فلسطينيّ!!!! وعليه أن يدفع ثمن فلسطينيّته على أيدي مغاوير الداخليّة "الأشاوس".
لن يكون عماد الضحيّة الأخيرة لهوس السلطات العراقيّة بالدم العربيّ. وبالتأكيد لن يكون الحلّ في تعهّدات يقطعها الطالباني أو المالكي للسلطة الفلسطينيّة أو المنظّمات الدوليّة.. فلطالما تعهّد هؤلاء وغيرهم بتوفير الحماية للفلسطينيّين.. لكنّهم لم يفعلوا.. ولن يفعلوا.
المشكل بالنسبة إلى الذين هُجّروا من العراق إلى داخل الأراضي السوريّة والأردنيّة أنّهم لا يتمتّعون في مخيّماتهم الجديدة بصفة "لاجئ". وهذا يعني أنّهم ليسوا مسجّلين أو مدرجين على قائمات اللاجئين، فلا الجهات الفلسطينيّة الرسميّة تتحمّل مسؤوليّتهم، ولا المنظّمات الإنسانيّة الدوليّة تعترف بوجودهم القانونيّ وتضمن لهم حقوق اللاجئ مثلما تنصّ عليه المواثيق الدوليّة.
كأنّه عزّ على هذه الجهات أن تمنحهم "شرف" اللجوء!!!
هم "بدون" فلسطين.. لا يطالبون بحقّهم في المواطنة، فذلك أمر بعيد..
إنّهم يطالبون بحقّهم في اللجوء، أي الاعتراف بهم لاجئين مع ما يترتّب عن هذا الاعتراف من بعض حقوق.. تكفل لهم بعض حياة...
السلطة الفلسطينيّة في رام الله، والحكومة الفلسطينيّة في غزّة كلتاهما تتعاملان مع موضوع اللاجئين الفلسطينيّين في العراق وكأنّه شأن يخصّ أصحابه دون سواهم.. فهم المسؤولون عن شتاتهم.. وعن تشرّدهم.
هؤلاء الفلسطينيّون يطالبون فقط بالاعتراف بهم "لاجئين". وهذا يقتضي من سلطتي غزّة ورام الله تمكينهم من الإقامة القانونيّة ومن الوثائق الإداريّة التي تقنّن وجودهم وتمنحه شرعيّة تنأى بهم عن كلّ أشكال الضغط والابتزاز والملاحقة التي تنتهك كرامة المرء وتصادر حرّيّته. ذلك أنّ حماية هؤلاء اللاجئين تُعتبر مسؤوليّة أخلاقيّة إضافة إلى كونها مسؤوليّة سياسيّة وقانونيّة تقع بالأساس على عاتق ممثّلي الفلسطينيّين قبل أيّ طرف آخر.
على أنّ هذا الجهد الوطنيّ الضروريّ لا بدّ أن يرافقه جهد إقليميّ دوليّ يخصّ منظّمة التعاون الإسلاميّ والمفوّضية السامية لشؤون اللاجئين (الأنروا)، ذلك أنّه لا يبدو أفق إنسانيّ واضح للمأساة التي يعاني منها فلسطينيّو العراق. بل نعتقد أنّ الرهان على الأمل في عودة الرشد إلى الحكومة العراقيّة أشبه ما يكون بمطاردة وهْم لأنّ ما يتعرّض له أشقّاؤنا هناك إنّما هو جزء من حملة ممنهجة لتهجير من تبقّى منهم تحت ذرائع شتّى وبأساليب تتفنّن القوّات الأمنيّة الحكوميّة في تطويرها وابتداع الجديد منها كلّ يوم.
على أنّ كلّ هذا لا يجب أن يُغفل دور منظّمات المجتمع المدنيّ ووسائل الإعلام في إثارة هذه القضيّة ومنع اتّساع رقعة معاناة فلسطينيّي العراق، وتسليط الضوء على هذه المأساة حتّى لا ننتقل بعد فوات الأوان من الصمت والغفلة إلى الرثاء والعويل.
I hope you are reading all these e-mails. There are a variety of opinons expressed. I would like to add one. What makes Democracy so great? Look at our own Country. The United States is in a downward path to implode because the people in power fail to listen and take their orders from the people on Main Street. Instead they listen to other "powers" (Lobbyist, lawyers, bankers, Wall Street, etc.) and make their decisions on what they want. We do not have a Democracy in America. For those who believe we do, they are living in a tunnel. What has happened is clear. For far too long the people with money have been the people in power. And they have become more greedy each year. Now they are buying elections without restrictions, and peddling trash ads to destroy any opponents. Are you proud of this so-called "Democracy?" I am a daughter of the American Revolution with 12 direct soldiers who were Continental soldiers. They fought for a free America where everyone prospered together. They would not recognize our Congress the way it is now.
Yeah, but that's the not problem of democracy! That's the problem of non-democratic actions – actions of people in power who are trying to squeeze out democratic laws and freedoms that we (and your ancestors) fought for. Democracy is a process, a constant process of give and take. We're now in a take trend – and so something's gotta give. But it's still the best place on earth. Gosh! Look at how many different cultures and races and religions live here in relative peace. It's gorgeous. And it's all because of your ancestors. Bless them!
i wanna try taste democracy in burma. what about it?
Thank you for articulating my belief -that democracy is a PROCESS – it's a verb, not an end result – that never ends really – how else do you gain consensus among differing people, much less support and sustain that beautiful interaction that allows for multiple and often opposing views?
Undeniably imagine that that you stated. Your favourite justification seemed to be at the web the simplest factor to take note of. I say to you, I definitely get irked at the same time as other people consider issues that they just don't know about. You controlled to hit the nail upon the top and also outlined out the whole thing with no need side-effects , folks could take a signal. Will likely be again to get more. Thanks
Hi great art! i'm so happy and i add "Like" (facebook) to globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com
Hello little ones, you all have to watch funny video lessons, however remember that first study then enjoyment ok.
I savour, cause I discovered just what I used to be having a look for. You have ended my 4 day lengthy hunt! God Bless you man. Have a great day. Bye
Thank you, I have just been searching for info about this topic for a long time and yours is the best I've found out so far. But, what concerning the bottom line? Are you positive in regards to the source?|What i do not realize is in reality how you are not actually much more neatly-liked than you may be right now. You're so intelligent.
Hi there, I found your site by means of Google even as searching for a similar topic, your website got here up, it appears to be like great. I've added to my favourites|added to my bookmarks.