Editor's Note: Allison Stanger is Russell Leng ’60 Professor of International Politics and Economics and Chair of the Political Science Department at Middlebury College Middlebury College. She is the author of One Nation Under Contract: The Outsourcing of American Power and the Future of Foreign Policy.
By Allison Stanger - Special to CNN
President Obama’s apology to Afghan President Hamid Karzai for the U.S. military burning Qurans at Bagram Air Field, the largest NATO base in Afghanistan, has prompted a fierce reaction. Former House speaker Newt Gingrich called the apology “an outrage.”
Our Commander in Chief was courageous to apologize in an election year for an outrageous violation of American values that happened on his watch. But the debate that focuses only on whether it is right or wrong to burn Qurans or whether the Afghan people are justified in responding with rioting misses the larger question: What were American forces doing burning books of any kind in Afghanistan, let alone Islam’s most sacred text?
Book burning is not something typically associated with freedom-of-speech-loving America. When books are burned in a country desperately in need of more books, where only 43% of men and 12% of women are literate, it should prompt questions.
NATO officials and President Obama the act unintentional. U.S. service members were following orders to burn the Qurans and other reading materials that may or may not have been used by Afghan inmates to pass encoded messages between themselves at Parwan Detention Facility, which adjoins the base. The incinerated materials were taken from a library at Parwan Detention Facility. The burning took place in view of local Afghan staff who felt compelled to get word of the action out to the population at large.
I want to believe that the burning of Qurans was an unintended mistake. But surely any soldier based in Afghanistan after a decade-long American intervention knows that the desecration of the Koran is an inflammatory and offensive act in aMuslim country.
But torching the Qurans in front of Afghans for whom it is a sacred text could just as easily be construed as an expression of growing frustration with the accelerating deterioration of the U.S. position in Afghanistan and an accompanying loss of faith in the applicability of Western Enlightenment values in the Afghan context.
It is an act that could just as well be classified in the same category as the four Marines who were videotaped urinating on dead Taliban fighters. The battle for hearts and minds is clearly in a downward spiral when American men and women in uniform are the perpetrators of such atrocities.
President Obama’s apology has done little to contain the mounting rage in Afghanistan that led to a march on the presidential palace after Friday prayers, the Saturday killings of two U.S. officers on the job in Afghan ministries and the subsequent withdrawal of NATO advisors from Afghanistan. But this latest incident provides further evidence that our armed forces have begun to lose touch with why we are fighting in the first place.
Their frustration is understandable, but we should never implicitly condone American soldiers burning books as a means to defending freedom by attacking those who apologize. The cost of losing what we are fighting to uphold is far too high. Thankfully, President Obama understands that.
The views expressed in this article are solely those of Allison Stanger.
© 2012 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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Very true and I completely agree on this
Stanger: The U.S. should never be burning books
Heading is misleading. No one should be burning any religious book specially Qur'an.
In US we do not realize what we did we do.
The books needed to be disposed of. Many of them contained messages that could have been detrimental to the war effort. Things that need to be disposed of in war zones are often times burned. It is the easiest most cost efficient way of dealing with refuse. Is this commentator arguing for books, Koran or not, being transported to the US for what a ceremonial book burial ?
Was it smart to burn the Koran especially in view of Afgans, obviously not. An atrocity hardly. Our foe kills for the slightest perceived insult. Westerners giving excuse to such behavior is ridiculous. Most of us live lives that would lead to Fatwas calling for our executions if we lived in these countries. This female commentator would be a beaten, uneducated piece of property with no say over her life. Yet she can find fault not with the protestors but the US troops who fight them.
In the USA, we have stood by as the educated elitists and pot-heads (remember Dr. Timothy Leary, Woodstock et al.?) burned the US Flag and others other items sacred to our nation. Now we are dealing with illiterate people that kill anybody that says something derogatory about their sacred book, which they claim forbids them from hurting even a flea! It's all political hogwash. Get out of there and leave them to their stupidity!
The core problem is the ignorance of the low ranking American soldier. If the U. S.public educational system wasn't dumbed down by the low priority given it by Republicans who pay it lip service and vote against funding, maybe our soldiers would be able to figure out that burning the Koran isn't something they should ever do.
Garbage is burned all the time on military bases. Those qurans were just part of the garbage, the most disgusting part.
The U.S shouldn't be there PERIOD.
I wonder what the religious right wing nuts would do if the reverse were to take place? Taking their bibles and throwing them in a bonfire in front of them. Did I hear crusades? And comments like the one made by Keith only endanger the lives of those of us who put them on the line.
@CD: "The books needed to be disposed of. Many of them contained messages that could have been detrimental to the war effort". I don't buy this BS. if really the books contained notes from the prisoners that are detrimental to the war efforts, wouldn't we have just kept them as evidence against those prisoners? Why would we burn them? Is there something there we don't want the world to know?
Bull.... This whole thing makes me want to go to the middle east, buy a Koran. Then promptly rub my dog's poop on it and burn it right in front of the seller..... They go after us by hurting and killing, I can hurt them just as bad with my words. They stop killing I'll stop desecrating their world. They started this. NOT us.
Here is my return fire!
O<-< (Muhammad.... In a pigskin coat eating bacon wrapped pork chops).
If they didn't make a stink I would not be hurting their criminal bandit child molesting "prophet"
Ken, It amazes me how well you type with that straitjacket on!
The whole point is we are burning "things"and they are killing people. It's utterly stupid. What is important is the concepts not the vessel.
For those supporting the burning- was it worth the people killed and injured because of it? Justify all you want, but now people are dying because of it. Does that sound like it was a well thought out idea? Maybe we should think before we act for a change. It's partially this kind of thinking that makes us a target for extremists in the first place.
We had to burn them because of coded messages? WHAT!? When was the last time coded messages were in US hands that the enemy came back and recaptured them? We could have disposed of them in so many different locations and so many different ways. Speaking as a prior military officer, this was a dumb move on our end.
I am trying to show how crazy they are. I can outrage them with a simple stick figure or by ruining a book. Makes no sense does it?
jg Well said.
They'd also burn the bible and our flag with no reservations. If they don't want us to do the same then they have to practice what they preach.
The headline does not say "religious books." You're reading something into it that isn't there and making this a religious issue, when it's a freedom of information issue.
That said, there's a war on. Anything that is suspected of helping the enemy has to be destroyed, and that included these particular books, because they were suspected of being used to pass information.
Know what? you guys are right who say we did not burn religous items. We burned coded ememy materials written on religious items.
Ken, and now people are dying because we couldn't find a better way to do that. I'm glad you support us making easily avoidable decisions that get my former troops killed or injured so you can get up on your little soap box. I, for one, do not!
This author is uneducated at best and at worst inflammatory. These books had writing on pages which even by islamic law is desecration leading to proper disposal. Proper disposal by Islamic law is burning....we did nothing wrong in this instance and Obama's apology s another embarrassment to the fact we don't understand this culture.
Written by a housewife in New Brunswick , to
her local newspaper. This is one ticked off lady...
"Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was
it or was it not, started by Islamic people who
brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001
and have continually threatened to do so since?
Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered
that day, in downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from
the capitol of the USA and in a field in Pennsylvania ?
Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?
Do you think I care about four U. S. Marines urinating on some dead Taliban insurgents?
And I'm supposed to care that a few Taliban were
claiming to be tortured by a justice system of a
nation they are fighting against in a brutal Insurgency.
I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle
East, start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere belief
of which, is a crime punishable by beheading in Afghanistan .
I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are
sorry for hacking off Nick Berg's head, while Berg
screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.
I'll care when the cowardly so-called insurgents
in Afghanistan , come out and fight like men,
instead of disrespecting their own religion by
hiding in Mosques and behind women and children.
I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow
themselves up in search of Nirvana, care about the
innocent children within range of their suicide Bombs.
I'll care when the Canadian media stops pretending that
their freedom of Speech on stories, is more important than
the lives of the soldiers on the ground or their families waiting
at home, to hear about them when something happens.
In the meantime, when I hear a story about a
CANADIAN soldier roughing up an Insurgent
terrorist to obtain information, know this:
I don't care.
When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the
head when he is told not to move because he
might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank:
I don't care. Shoot him again.
When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed 'special' food, that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being 'mishandled,' you can absolutely believe, in your heart of hearts:
I don't care.
And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes
it's spelled 'Koran' and other times 'Quran.'
Well, Jimmy Crack Corn you guessed it.
I don't care!!
If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to
all your E-mail Friends. Sooner or later, it'll get to
the people responsible for this ridiculous behavior!
If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete
button. Should you choose the latter, then please don't
complain when more atrocities committed by radical
Muslims happen here in our great Country! And may I add:
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering, if
during their life on earth, they made a difference in
the world. But, the Soldiers don't have that problem.
I have another quote that I would like to
share AND...I hope you forward All this.
One last thought for the day:
Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for you:
1. Jesus Christ
2. The British Soldier.
3. The Canadian Soldier.
4. The US Soldier, and
5. The Australian Soldier
One died for your soul,
the other four, for you and your children's Freedom.
Are you kidding me, civilized people would just burn the bible but NO these people kill the very people who spent billions of dollars and sacrificed thousands of lives to help them be free. As far as I'm concerned we should leave them to kill each other.
No one greater then Jesus Christ, the Son of God...
@CD I totally agree!
The US shouldn't coddle Muslims, how much has that helped? The progressives and our apologist in chief don't get it though.
In Islam, writing in a Koran desecrates the Holy Book. Muslims REQUIRE that once the Koran is desecrated it MUST BE BURNED. The soldiers were simply trying to honor Islamic tradition. The people in our government are complete fools, as we are not pointing this out. Instead we are apologizing for our stupidity about Islam, except for maybe Obama!
"ken
Bull.... This whole thing makes me want to go to the middle east, buy a Koran. Then promptly rub my dog's poop on it and burn it right in front of the seller..... ."
Ken,
I for one would like to see you do that and survive...I'll even pay the airfare, although you're on your own as far as finding a safe place to sleep.
Don't burn the koran? That's an odd request coming from people who will not let a Bible into their country and will behead anyone caught with one.
So, you have a set of books in a prison (let's say they are Christian Bibles just to drive the point home) and the prisoners are checking them in and out to pass notes in the margins - those Christian fiends are defiling the holy books to pass information. You pull the Bibles out and put in new ones - what do you do with the old ones? You can store them or dispose of them. Books in the west are so common place and obtainable that they are largely treated as disposable - doubly so in the face of E-publishing. In Afghan/Pakistan people are still tied to they physical medium so much that the medium is message.
The biggest mistake the US military made in this case was not just boxing the Quran's up and shipping them to a facility within the US for long term storage. Think of the storage facility at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark - big old warehouse where nobody really knows what's stored in there. Then time can yellow the pages - skip the ashes to ashes and just let them dry rot dust to dust.
What are you going to do with books and other paper waste in war zone? Paper recycling boxes could be thousands miles away. Burning is better than shredding and dumping in landfill. They didn't burn it as a political statement, they burned it to get rid of paper waste.
Beginning May 10, 1933, the Nazi regime burned more than 20,000 books that did not conform to their ideology. I don't know how many books we have burned, but I'm very disappointed we seem to be using this Nazi solution as a role model. If we don't like the Quran, doesn't it seem reasonable to have copies of it, and read them, to remind us what we don't like about it?
The real issue here is the actions of the personnel who did this. Either they are so clueless that they didn't understand the ramifications of their actions, or it was an intentional act. And either option is totally unacceptable. An action like this that plays into the hands of Taliban falls under the heading of giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
As for the reaction of the Afghan people, I will never condone murder in the name of religion, no matter whose religion it is. But the hypocrisy of many in this country is astounding. What do you think the reaction of the majority "Christian" population here would be, if the roles were reversed? If our country was under occupation by a foreign military force that was burning bibles? Do you honestly think the only reaction would be peaceful protests? Do you think that people would be demanding an apology, or that such an apology would be enough for the most zealous among us? Anyone who does not believe that those claiming the Christian faith are capable of murder in the name of their God, is obviously ignorant of both the long history of Christianity, and of current events.
It was extremely mindless of the wrongdoers. Now the whole affair has got out of proportion and it doesn't help that they feel sorry or Obama apologises. It was an extremely unfortunately incident and could have been avoided in the first place. The Nazi burnt books that they saw as harmful to the public.
Didn't NATO burn the books. I don't think the US did.
She's right, we should be burning Taliban instead...
And that excuses them killing people over it how?
I will start worrying about Korans burning, when they stop killing those who are not followers of their faith! They should be glad that if I was the leader of this country, I would of bombed the hell out of the jerks who are, apparently, freely killing those who have done nothing, because they feel a simple book was wrongly burnt. How about those who are mad about the destruction of the Koran, start getting mad about the loss of a life due to someone not wanting to be a Muslim? By the way. The inmates there desecrated the Koran before it was burnt!
In the US , I can burn whatever want.
DID SOMEONE ASK: why there are those books, including the copy of Quran in US camp. Do not tell us Obama ask the Pentagon distribute the Quaran to US troop as he did in the WH.
No, The Qu'ran could use some more burning actuly, I don't think there should be any of those such books in a military base, and I especially don't think we need to be giving out more of those, if anything we need to teach them to read so they can read the truth and stop being told what to do by the taliban
"FutureWizard
Stanger: The U.S. should never be burning books
Heading is misleading. No one should be burning any religious book specially Qur'an.
In US we do not realize what we did we do."
What?? How about READING a couple of books before posting an illiterate comment like that!
Burning the Koran is no different than burning the Sunday comics. Nothing in either of them is of real value and they both are a big joke. Most of the people in Afghanistan cannot read anyways so what does it matter. And another thing if they were printed incorrectly in the first place they would be burned no doubt about it so it doesn't really matter those people are crying over nothing because they are too ignorant to realize otherwise.
In a country where books are scarce......the LAST book these radicals need is a manual encouraging the killing of OUR people
Ladies and Gentlemen: I am not a veteran. I am Patriotic, though. And since my opinion counts for an opinion, if nothing else, I will say that I have to agree with Ken. After all, Are our Troops there to fight a war, or are they there to nurse the hurt feelings of ignorant and violent people who HATE every one of us (?!!!).
@Ken – Your ignorance was shown by your statement "They started this" as if the reason there is any conflict between us and the Middle East is because of 9/11. There have been disagreements for CENTURIES, nobody "started" it, we just have two completely different ideologies and since you can't understand what it's like to be one of them, stop talking.
CD I agree with you 100%
Hmm,It won't let me leave an independent comment.
"NATO officials and President Obama the act unintentional."
No verb is in this sentance?!
*sentence. Take that, grammar police.
This sentence no verb, too.
I don't grammar either.
The premise of the article is that all book-burnings are equal...or not equal? In my opinion, it's ignorant to act as if there was destruction of one of a kind artifacts here. Unless we burned the one and only original copy from which others could be made, trying to drum this situation up into something logical is ridiculous. Where or where did all of the Qurans go that were ever created in Afghanistan? Is the 72 virgins deal off if a suicide bomber has one strapped to his person at time of detonation...or what? (sarc)
The big question is not "why American burnt those books", because it was an error, and unusual accident which was not ordered but was done by a few "bad apples". The big question is 'how come those mother fhhhckers kill, murder, and injure people whenever they feel like it"? Is that a response? As long as Islam endorses violence as means of a solution to a problem, we are all doomed. If our kitten-softy Obama apologizes or not is not important as all, THE BIG PICTURE IS THAT ISLAM PROMOTES MURDER< DEATH AND ALIKE FOR A RESPONSE
you need to understand the culture....nothing wrong was done. PERIOD!
You sir have no idea what Islam is, and can make no judgments about it. If they judge us by a few ignorant people, should we do the same to them?
Public education is definitely not working in the US – look in the mirror sir, if you want to see a bigot full of hatred.
But it is ok to kill American Soldiers right? They are killing our people because they are mad that we burned some books the inmates were using to pass messages. I would call them holy books, but if they were holy and sacred then why was it ok for the inmates to write in them? I can't believe all the hippy outrage about burning books, when you should be upset our Soldiers are dying.
"I can't believe all the hippy outrage about burning books, when you should be upset our Soldiers are dying."
What a stupid thing to say. I have not read a SINGLE comment from anyone, including "hippies" who say they are fine with
killing of our soldiers. You invented that.....how absurd. Nice try troll.
Funny story. Hippies don't like PEOPLE dying. And PEOPLE wouldn't be dying if the soldiers weren't there in the first place, now would they?
Oh yeah, 9/11 was an inside job.
I was just talking with my family about this. I would probably be considered "Right-wing" as I have fundamental Christian Values, although not extremist in any way. I was just saying: Here is the difference in our religions; if I saw someone burning my Bible, I wouldn't have even a flinch of reaction! My Bible is yes, the word of God, but realistically only paper and text. My religion is bigger than my Bible, it is my way of life. The way I choose to live. The Bible is a reference guide, a tool, NOT my God. When you elevate the book to the level of your God, then there is something wrong. Yes, I think the Bible is Holy words, buy I do not idolize the book. The people in those countries are just looking for a reason to recruit more extremists to kill more innocents in the name of their Allah. It is just a marketing tool for them. No, we should not have done this in the presence of anyone that could be offended, but the act of disposing of possible coded messages is NOT an atrocity. Just like our respect for not bombing Mosques, while the enemy holes up in them and shoots our troops from them. The playing filed will never be level in this situation.
You are comapring apples and oranges. Afghanistan only has a 43 % lietracy rate among men and 12% among men. They can't even read their Quran themselves, they just memorize their texts and they are occupied. 90% of Afghans do not even know why are we there. Check back in the history books what would american christians would have done when American literacy was this low. Remember, Mormos were persecuted and kicked out just over a century ago. Hundreds of years ago, chrisitans burned women who were thought to be witches. Recenty, lKKKs were carrying crosses and hunting for jews and blacks. Educated muslim countries such as Turkey and Malaysia ,UAE are not protesting like this. This is the difference.
HD – continuing to apologize for these animals isn't going to help or change anything.
Allah=God.
Your comment makes it sound like you are talking about American history books, if not, this comment can be skipped. If it is, then read on. While witches were persecuted, prosecuted and executed in Salem, they were, in point of fact, never burned. That was the Inquisition. Which was in Europe. Here, they were hanged. Or, in some cases, I believe, drown. Just a peeve of mine, no real point to make other than that.
@Ryah, actually one was slowly crushed with stones. But you miss the point, which is not so long ago our own history showed some pretty damn brutal and inhumane behavior towards our own fellow Americans. The masses are more easily provoked when education and literacy is low and history has shown , worldwide, that religion is usually the biggest tool in fueling these actions.
Maybe they should have just glued all the pages together or better yet cut out the insides and replaced them with the bible but in Arabic. They are such idiots over there no one would have been the wiser.
Just so everyone is aware...this wasn't random books in people's homes but books in prison with extremist messages in them. If they wouldn't change what was inside from the original Koran it wouldn't have gotten burned. Maybe the soldiers went "Huh I don't know arabic but that looks like common prison graffiti, into the trash it goes." just wanting to point that out.
I thought the proper thing to do out of respect for the culture, was to turn these books over to the government. Our culture is different, of course, but i do believe that we should always show respect to other culture, especially religous ones
So ,let me see if i get this straight. You can write over the scriptures of the Koran and make your on inserts about killing ,bombing and hurting other people and that's OK. Is that's what we have become? That's what we are defending?We apologize when we destroy evil rewritten versus of a supposedly holy book Come on people!!! The Koran was already disrespected by it's own religious people who still wallow in the 6 century! Since when it was OK to re-write your own evil intents in a holy book it and it is still considered a good book that should not be burned or destroyed? You people are crazy and have completely lost your minds. The writer is a pure example of how psychological damaged l our society has become since 911and the results of radical Islam. Pathetic!
andre, you and CD are tied for best comments of the day! My husband is over there right now and I appreciate your clarity and intelligent insight on the subject.
Andre you pegged it!
What part of "orders to burn the Qurans and other reading materials that MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE been used by Afghan inmates to pass encoded messages" did you not understand?
Like it or not, we *do not know* if those Qurans were desecrated. For all we know, none of them were...and the order was to simply burn ALL reading material, and the Qurans themselves may not have been desecrated at all. So...no...you have no foundation upon which to think you got it right.
Written by a housewife in New Brunswick , to
her local newspaper. This is one ticked off lady...
"Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was
it or was it not, started by Islamic people who
brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001
and have continually threatened to do so since?
Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered
that day, in downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from
the capitol of the USA and in a field in Pennsylvania ?
Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?
Do you think I care about four U. S. Marines urinating on some dead Taliban insurgents?
And I'm supposed to care that a few Taliban were
claiming to be tortured by a justice system of a
nation they are fighting against in a brutal Insurgency.
I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle
East, start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere belief
of which, is a crime punishable by beheading in Afghanistan .
I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are
sorry for hacking off Nick Berg's head, while Berg
screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.
I'll care when the cowardly so-called insurgents
in Afghanistan , come out and fight like men,
instead of disrespecting their own religion by
hiding in Mosques and behind women and children.
I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow
themselves up in search of Nirvana, care about the
innocent children within range of their suicide Bombs.
I'll care when the Canadian media stops pretending that
their freedom of Speech on stories, is more important than
the lives of the soldiers on the ground or their families waiting
at home, to hear about them when something happens.
In the meantime, when I hear a story about a
CANADIAN soldier roughing up an Insurgent
terrorist to obtain information, know this:
I don't care.
When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the
head when he is told not to move because he
might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank:
I don't care. Shoot him again.
When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed 'special' food, that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being 'mishandled,' you can absolutely believe, in your heart of hearts:
I don't care.
And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes
it's spelled 'Koran' and other times 'Quran.'
Well, Jimmy Crack Corn you guessed it.
I don't care!!
If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to
all your E-mail Friends. Sooner or later, it'll get to
the people responsible for this ridiculous behavior!
If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete
button. Should you choose the latter, then please don't
complain when more atrocities committed by radical
Muslims happen here in our great Country! And may I add:
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering, if
during their life on earth, they made a difference in
the world. But, the Soldiers don't have that problem.
I have another quote that I would like to
share AND...I hope you forward All this.
One last thought for the day:
Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for you:
1. Jesus Christ
2. The British Soldier.
3. The Canadian Soldier.
4. The US Soldier, and
5. The Australian Soldier
One died for your soul,
the other four, for you and your children's Freedom.
i dont care shoot some more of them
Excellent, Kirk, well said! They shouldn't have burned the koran, they should have immersed it in a vat of pig feces. That's the proper way to dispose of that pederast scribbling.
"Muslims" can kill & maim their women, kill Americans and innocent children, hide in their mosques amongst the general population to keep from being killed themselves and I'm supposed to "apologize" for burning their God-forsaken book????? The Obama Administration may have apologized on behalf of the US for the burning of the book, but he sure didn't speak for me and many, many others........I could care less....let's continue to "Special Forces and Drone" them to death.........make those Muslims that mean us harm continue to look over their shoulders for the rest of their lives wondering when it is going to end for them..........
This sort of jingoistic cant, spewed by a woman (supposedly a woman) safe in her living room and in no danger whatsoever of going to war herself, impresses me not. People who add fuel to an already incendiary situation must bear the consequences of the acts committed by the naive and feeble-minded folk whom they inflame to war and atrocity.
Humans are very vulnerable to war fervor; we certainly saw it most vividly in WWI; the reality of the horror is borne not only by soldiers but by the cilivians who find themselves in the way of the juggernaut.
I see a lot of whipping up of war fervor here by the armchair-brave; a lot of evocative words to send tears rolling down the cheeks in memory of... whomever they choose to disingenuously insert in their screed. Remember in WWII, the Nazis used Horst Wessel, their "fallen comrade" to rationalize murder and genocide. It's a lowdown tactic here, your use of Berg to fan even more hate toward Muslims, and it's an insult to his name. Stop waving his severed head to make your own point.
As far as the inflammatory and insensitive act of burning their holy book, it obviously sparked overreaction, but it's not the real issue. The real issue is: what are we doing there? As it was in Vietnam. Just because we can invade, should we? If the Afghanis had the men and material and decided to invade the U.S. to root out dangers to Islam, we would be horrified, would we not? We have plenty to occupy us here at home, including educating young people, a job we are not doing very well. What if we took the effort and money we are dedicating to this pointless "war" in the middle east and put it toward educating our youth? We would see dramatic and positive results, I promise.
Thanks you for framing this in a very real way. People that do not care to back our troops should really pack up and get out. An honorable person does not accept what is given to them if they don't support they way it was gained. Live in the middle east where your daughters will be treated like farm animals.
Ya know, I would have objected to this a while back. But there is a fascinating TED talk by Neil MacGregor on a BC 500 artifact that helps establish a lot of context. When Cyrus basically took over what we now call the middle east he decreed that people with different beliefs should live and let live. The Romans later threw this out of course and said "our way or die". And a thousand or so years later the self-acclaimed-prophet who started Islam knew the history. He spat upon the tolerance of Cyrus' decree and that disdain is a fundamental part of the religion he created. There was precedent for multi-cultural, multi-national tolerance, but by design Islam ignored it.
There is zero hope for peace with Islam - the religion is founded on intolerance - as such the decision will be binary: Islam will dominate or die, this is a core decision made by the founder. So, decision time is coming - when will hundreds of millions of Americans and billions of Chinese and Indians come to understand this? Will the west pray toward Mecca or speak Mandarin - the west will follow China's lead when China figures out that Islam is bad for business - I think so. Hang on, this is going to be a bumpy ride.
(I am not anti-muslim– yes there are some beautiful pieces in the religion - yes I've listend to the original Arabic. I simply don't see how a religion designed to dominate or die will survive when it starts messing with Chinese rice bowls.)
hey elle SLOW ONE I SERVED 17YRS HOW ABOUT YOU so shut your trap about that unless you have served YOUR THE ARM CHAIR ONE
Elle, I think what Kirk's response means is that he didn't understand all the big words.
Really, the thing is, if he is upset about soldiers being put in harms way and the consequences of that, he might stop to think that we needn't be there. When, after 9/11 we went to Afghanistan, it was broadly supported. We went there to go after the terrorist mastermind that planned the attacks. We didn't find him (or, if Tora Bora is what it seems, we found him, and let him escape.) We went to Iraq and declared war because we were told Hussein helped with the attacks (he didn't) and had WMD (he didn't.) Now, long after most everyone that was part of the attacks and planning is dead or in custody, we stay. After Bin Laden, we we went there to find and bring to justice, is dead, we stay. Why we went may have had a solid reason, but it hasn't in a long time.
We went for oil. We went to show the world we are still a superpower. We went to try and install governments we thought we could better control. (something that in the long run never has worked out well for the US.)
But don't tell me we went to battle terrorism.
Don't tell me we went to 'spread democracy.
Don't tell me we went to make innocent civilians lives better.
Because, we claim we fight extremist Islam because they are terrorists. Because of this, people decry Islam in general as a violent religion. Because of what the Quran says in it, we are told by these people, it has to be violent by nature. They overlook that we've had domestic terrorists, extreme Christians (Timothy McVeigh.) They overlook that if they judged all Christians by these militants, we should be burning that book too, and vilifying the religion.
As far as spreading democracy, why then, have we not decided to spread it to North Korea – a country that is far more a threat, and treats its people as badly? No Oil.
Last, if we are making the lives of innocent civilians better, how do we explain Haditha. Our fight against these extremists, who pose no direct threat to the US Homeland, had cost the lives of countless innocent civilians. Our burning of their holy books (which, if done because they were desecrated by being used to pass messages, is not as relevant) only lets them think we are an occupier there to do them harm. Our soldiers desecrating the corpses of their dead, whether combatant or civilian, only serves to solidify us as an evil enemy. Do we not remember the outrage when dead soldiers of our own were burned and hanged from bridges? We do we expect any less outrage, or think that if it were done here, the reaction would be any less violent?
After 9/11, if all of the money that was subsequently spend of going across the sea to exact justice/vengeance were instead spent on only locating and killing those responsible, instead of two full scale wars, and on securing the borders of the US such that what happened that day could not happen again, how different a world we might live in. How many people, among them the soldiers of ours, whose dead now far outnumber the lives of those ended on 9/11, would still be alive?
9/11 was an inside job, you ignorant jackape. Get over your own obstinate crusade and embrace reality.
AYYYYYMEN!!!!!!! God bless America, God bless the other "Civilized" Western Allies. End this foolish apologetic slobbering and toe-nail kissing: Vote this sorry "sonuvuhbuck" out of the White House of the USA!!! God bless the USA, Land that I love.
This war is lost, just as Iraq was lost at abu Ghraib
We lack the sophistication to wage this battle
Declare victory and go home
Osama's bin gotten
enough
Here Here...Bring the boys and girls back home!
I agree Brad but probably for a different reason. I want to bring our sons and daughters home because one American live is not worth 1 million of these animals. We don;t have the stomach for what needs to be done, so lets leave the dance and wait till they are here in our towns and have the influence to get our laws changed. At that point keep your prayer mat handy...your gonna need it 3 times a day to bow to Mecca.
Yes bring them home. Just leave a fleet of drones to keep the peace.
Nice one, Jules. It's so heartwarming to know that you think U.S. citizens are the only humans in the world and nobody else should be regarded as equal. That'd be like, you know, acknowledging humanity and stuff. We can't call ourselves imperialists if we give foreigners a fair shake and give them due process, now can we?
What you may fail to realize is that there may have been military information written/encoded in the korans that were burned. The military can not tell all.
I find the pages of this book very useful in getting my home fireplace started.
Yeahhhhh! Fuel prices are way to high for using kindling.
Yes should not burn books, and Muslims should not murder, I wonder what is worse in Gods Eye?
It seems both you and the author didn't get all the facts before spouting off. The books were already desecrated by prisoners using them to exchange messages. We weren't burning korans, we were burning descrated korans with military intelligence scrawled in them. Those people already hate us and are always ready to use any excuse to express that hatred. We shouldn't be there in the first place. They should be allowed to live in squalor and kill each other to their heart's content–less mess to clean up later if they die off.
yes and after that do not give them any "hearts and minds" visas to attend univeristy or anything else here and secure the borders so that they do not slip in the back door to do their dirty work..
Too bad a cholera outbreak doesn't just wipe them all out.
No.
What part of "were following orders to burn the Qurans and other reading materials that MAY OR MAY NOT have been used by Afghan inmates to pass encoded messages" are you having difficulty understanding?
As any wise man know – you can get away with anything – just do not get caught.
I suspect,that all that awful PR disaster is pre-election trick.
Yes, I'm sure what we need is another progressive tool and Muslim apologist telling our military what they should and should not be doing half way around the world in a war zone.
If you know action A will cause reaction B and you don't want reaction B, don't take action A.
It's not ok to burn books but it is ok to place IED's and blow up innocent people. Fundamentalist muslims are way over the top and probally the most biggoted and least compassionate people on earth.
Invaders aren't 'innocent people'. I'd do the same in my own country.
Exactly, Clark. If the US were invaded, we'd be fighting back ourselves. And, if they were better armed, we'd be fighting dirty. But so incredibly many of these folks cannot grasp this simple fact.
It is a book, nothing more. Islam feeds upon ignorance, fear and hatred.
The behavior displayed by the rioters speaks volumes as to why we should not be their in the first place. They burn our Bibles and flags, and we should do nothing but apologize to them, we even help them overthrow their oppressive Taliban leaders. The thanks we get from those illiterate uncivilized animals, after apologizing is bullets and IEDs. We should just get out of there they are not worth saving, and deserve the Taliban and all that goes with it, they are not fit to join a civilized society.
Hel-lo...why in God's name do you think they're fighting us tooth and nail??? They *WANT* us to leave! They DON"T WANT us in THEIR country!! Leaving isn't a punishment! It's what they have frickin' wanted for a decade!!!
They didn't ask us to "help" them. We invaded them for our own reasons, for crying out loud! We bombed the crap out of them. Killed tens of thousands of innocents. They have ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to be grateful to us!!!!
Would you be grateful to, say, the Chinese if China militarily invaded America??? Didn't think so. Indeed, would you be out there fighting them tooth and nail??? Yeah. That's what I thought. Well...that's how the Afghanis think, too.
Once hate messages are written in them we have the right to burn them. They are no longer a religious book. They have been turned into a weapon and a vehicle of hate Any book cab be marked up and changed. I agree in as far as a boow without alteration, but even notes should not be made in any book that is for public use. To do so cheats the next reader out of its intended meaning.
So we have the 'right' to burn any book as long as it isn't a religious book?
I guess everyone forgets 2 years ago under orders from our president, 150,000 bibles were confiscated from US and Coalition troop, turned over to Afghan clergy who burned them.
Got a source for that (outside of Republican party talking points, Faux News, or the Weekly Standard)?
FAIL!!!! Some US church sent a bunch of unsolicited Bibles printed in the two most common Afghan languages. They were intended for Afghanis, not our troops. The military confiscated the shipment as handing them out to Afghanis could be considered proselytizing...and that is forbidden by military rules. The President didn't order anything done to them. And, as an aside, Bush was president when the Bibles were shipped over.
Here is another way to look at what is really happening right now: Prisoners were allowed access to books and not just any books but their Korans. Thats right, the terrible Americans let the prisoners read their Korans. As a result of us being civilized and allowing this material, the prisoners decided to seize the moments by tainting their precious Koran with conspiring messages. We are then FORCED to dispose of this material. To top all of this off, we have obama jumping up and down apologizing. The Afghan peope should be rioting the jails and taking out the idiot prisoners who tainted their precious Korans.
I despair of the lack of reading comprehension exhibited by so many of you. I mean, what part of the Qurans MAY OR MAY NOT have been used to pass encoded messages did you not understand???
I agree with burning books in general. But you need to know your history of the Middle East. Muslims have been burning not only Christian Bibles for thousand of years but also their Koran/Qu'ran. As an example, in Eastern Afghanistan the Sangar girls' primary school was burned by Muslim men. Included in the school was 850 Quran were torched. No protest, no killings or beatings by the Muslims. In another case, a girls school was set on fire and 17 girls died as Muslim soldiers/police locked the doors and forced some back in the burning building because the girls did not have their bodies covered. Just google Muslim girls burned and read the ugly truth about the Muslim world. This nation does not need to apologize to anyone. Did you know that Muslim men do not believe girls should have an education.
PUKE PUKE PUKE.
I can't believe all the ignorance from people, especially Gingrich, who think its wrong to talk to one's enemies on occasion or to apologize (as Obama has done) when a mistake is made, in the interest of calming the situation.
Do all you John Wayne types out there think we can just say F-you to the whole world and do whatever we want? That we never should work with other countries, just dictate to them? I got news for you, we ain't that powerful to
conquer the whole world. People who take that position have no clue what they are talking about. Newt SHOULD know, he's a professor. Obviously Newt (and many of you) need to re-study your high school world history and geography so that you can understand the world as it is and know our limitations.
Ms. Stanger is a card carrying member of the blame America first crowd. She ignores everything else young Americans are fighting and dying for to focus on an unfortunate mistake and claim it is indicative of our service men and women's capabilities, intent and morales. This is logic turned on its head. Anyone who can justify the killing of American servicemen because of a mistaken destrucion of a book lives in an intellectual never never land.
Horse apples. Liberal hand wringing...why don't you people let the troops do the job...and you do yours, namely sit down, shut up and thanks whatever god you do or don't believe in that YOU aren't over there.
sheesh.
The soldiers had every write to burn the books. What would you expect our soldiers in WWII to do if the found books in the German POW camp praising Hitler and calling for the killing of Jews? The soldiers burned the books in accordance to Muslim rituals. What is most upsetting is that Hamid Karzi failed to stand behind the President and tell his people that we followed the policies expected of respectful solders. I think after ten years, the Afghan government has failed to step up to the challenges expected of them. Unlike the Iraqi politicians, the afghan government fails to see that the free charity is running out from the good graces of the American people.
Wow. Okay, so any religious book should basically be viewed as contraband. You're flamingly dumb. LOL As a result of being civilized... i had no idea being civilized was a bad thing. I mean, if we were civilized, we wouldn't be able to drop bombs on innocent civilians.
Hold on, my common sense is tingling....
The burning of any religious book is wrong, no matter what the belief is or whether we agree with it. But NATO is in command there not the US. We have nothing to apologize for, but we can be sorry it happened. A Muslim will always apologize to a Muslim, and that is what we have for a president.
Those who would burn books, ... its not much longer, they will be burning people. Look at history if you don't think this is true.
We shouldn't be burning books.....and they shouldn't be killing people because of it! People can defend them all day long for their "outrage" over this but plain and simple, which is the greater crime? The burning of a book (written, printed and bound by man) that has terrorist correspondence in it, or the killing of people because of it?
Sweeping generalizations do us all a disservice. To say that this instance and the instance of the Marines, is a sign that US Forces are losing touch with the real mission is a generalization that is both detrimental and lacks grounding in fact. There are many soldiers in Afghanistan that were just as horrified by these acts, and these acts are not representative of all soldiers beliefs. NATO soldiers come from a diverse background, many countries, many belief systems. These acts in fact put their security and well being at risk and frankly the soldiers and the upset Afghans could both use a little compassion. In that light I'd like to share something written by Thich Nhat Hanh: ""The essence of love and compassion is understanding, the ability to recognize the physical, material, and psychological suffering of others, to put ourselves "inside the skin" of the other. We "go inside" their body, feelings, and mental formations, and witness for ourselves their suffering. Shallow observation as an outsider is not enough to see their suffering. We must become one with the subject of our observation. When we are in contact with another's suffering, a feeling of compassion is born in us. Compassion means, literally, "to suffer with.""
We ought to banish all religion from this planet. It only serves to devide and lead to violence.
I do not condone the burning of any books, Koran or the Bible. Speaker Gingrich does make the point, that when Christian churches, books etc have been burned in a number of Muslim countries, no apologies were ever made. It does in fact seem to be a one sided situation.
america is in a dirty business.you americans don't want to admit that you are the problem.you have a lot of uncivilized population,ready to enlist and terrorize small,divided countries.
screw you.
I'll burn whatever I want to burn... and if you don't like it... you can kiss my ass
If a Torah had been burned and apologized-for by Obama, would Gingrich still be outraged?
It is beyond a disgrace to sit back and condemn soldiers for burning Muslims so called 'sacred text", and yet we allow Muslim groups across the United States burn the American flag in front of our faces. That's freedom of speech. But hey, we Americans can suck it up and deal with it, but we're quick to criticize people who are fighting to protect Muslim's rights in our country..including their right to burn the flag.
A complete disgrace. An apology by our Commander and chief signifies weakness. Period.
Books are just books – paper pulp, there's nothing to it. Even if someone burned photos of my late father I wouldn't be concerned as long as those were not my per nal photographs. Religious or "politically zealous" folks of any shape or form are silly at best. In the worst case of religious or "ideological" paranoia they become dangerous: prosecution of "christians" in Rome, the crusades, communism, nationalism, "muslim fundamentalism" and so on and on and on.
People, there's always science and knowledge. I would sterilize children with any IQ below 120. What a wonderful wolrd would that be! (Let's use their methods: we can dupe these fools into that.)
Old books are burned or otherwised discarded all the time.This was not censorship nor an attempt to denounce a religion. Its my understanding that there were bibles and other religious books burned as well.
We should denounce the extremism for what it is. There is NO justification to take a life because a book, even a religious book, was burned. Apologies in this setting seems to support the extremist who are the ones in the wrong here. They need to be arrested and brought to justice.
The US normally would not burn religious books. The inmates at Bagram were writing messages to other inmates about terrorist activity. The inmates are not supposed to deface the koran either but they did. Defacing the koran is just as bad as burning them. News doesn't always tell the full story.
Nobody cares what you think.
"It is an act that could just as well be classified in the same category as the four Marines who were videotaped urinating on dead Taliban fighters."
- Do american citizens start riots in the streets when the head of one of their own is brutally cut off on camera, then advertised all over the world? – No, the only people that care is the immediate family and friends of that Soldier.
- Have any of you been to Afghanistan, specifically Bagram? There is so much crap on that base and so much waste. Burning books and other materials is necessary to keep the place from becoming a wasteland. Also, if this book was used by a prisoner it could be used to code messages and possibly cause the death of many others.
Please, dont be so quick to judge.
I agree with you my friend. Those who don't agree with you are who keep betrayed US, like what kirki from New Brunswick, Canada mentioned from #1 to #5.
Don't you know, Saudi-Arabia who make Trillions $$$$ by selling American found Oil to America. The Saudis funded Billions of $$$$ to build Islamic Mosques in every corner of American Streets, including near by the Twins Buildings that has been destroyed by Saudi Terrorists. They even claimed to build Mosques on it. We in America, never thought to destroy Mosques in Saudi-Arabia. But, Saudi-Arabia doesn't allow One single Church to be built in their Country. Recently, 37 Ethiopian-Christians has been found when they were celebrating Christmas in their own rented living room in Saudi-Arabia and they are being arrested, torched, humiliated and some of them also killed by Saudi-Arabia Policemen.
Great point, not to mention the fact that trash is burned all over in the middle east. All trash in Iraq is burned as well...it's part of their culture. I even saw Iraqi's burning their trash in the street median sometimes. This article is so ignorantly written.
So, we ship them to you and you store them in your bedroom? WIll you pay for shipping and handling? Didn't think so...
Your ignorance in this article is astounding. I spent a year in Baghdad, and I can tell you from experience that ALL trash in the middle east is burned. They don't have landfills where they bury their trash like us...they burn it all. You really should do some research before you write an ignorant article that the whole world will see.
Allison Stanger puts it appropriately and civilly that this repeated behavior on American army’s part is an indication; sort of a revelation for us regarding at least one idea– that being our american experience: inspired by and based upon western enlightenment is absent; our noted and studied value for asking questions, for due process, for justice, for upholding the Nuremburg standards of legal principals can't possibly be so misplaced that we could claim it as lost. there is no need for a massacre and damage when so much knowledge is at one's reach here in America and around the 21st century world we all alive inhabit. However, the place and the people that we are in contact with have to be dealt with what we verbally claim to be spreading in that region. This spreading should be led with tangible working examples; in other words accomplish what it is trying to achieve with proof. Afghan cognitive domain differs from ours or at least it should be given our liberal and free experiences vastly different from theirs– thanks to our enlightened past that made reading possible for us. Afghans need to read; this is a critical text that must be read by them and by us as well because it is only through this personal experience of reading and understanding one could continue forward with any progressive idea that intends on solutions and alleviation of suffering and oppression. they need to learn to read...taking away that what we are intending to offer is not backwards but criminal given our knowledge and understanding of our behavior in afghanistan. the rage is not theirs only but the rage is against knowledge – and it is permeating from a direction that advocates precisely the spread of this notion called knowledge.
Actions speak louder than words... the US service men are the illiterates for burning books!
I can see you have never served.
Yes. That was blatantly obvious.
When I served, military illiteracy was so high that many of the training manuals were rewritten in comic book form.
Of course he has never served. He sits in his chair safe and warm and takes what people have died to give him, another worthless vulture. How dare you criticize real men.
Dear Victor – you are blaming those that are taking orders. These servicemen follow the chain of command. This act was handed down from those high in the ranks. Don't think for a minute that this was thought up by the boots on the ground. Blame their leaders.
Amen. Unfortunately the officer(s) who ordered this action will never be disciplined. The military protects its own, especially its officer corps.
MWE
Interesting comment about just following orders. I seem to remember that happening back in the 40's. Oh yeah, they burned books back then too.
I would think after all this country has gone through, after all that we have fought against, after all of the tyrants that we have waged war on for some of these very same things, that we would have learned. A shame.
father of Soldier, anyone with half a brain would have guessed the resulting reaction. This was premeditated and in intention to create this reaction.
Mr. Fatherofsoldier, judging by the comments that followed your entry I can see that these people never served in the military. They fail to understand that you can't object to a command. This is one of the things that steams me. Those that choose not to help defend our country, have no idea what a sacrifice that our military give, but choose to complain.
My opinion folks, do your country some kind of service even if it is peace corps. Stop complaining about things until you first do something yourself and stop riding on the backs of others.
Victor, please punch yourself in the crotch.
ROFL.
At least the other people who disagreed with Victor chose to enlighten us to their position, rather than showing ignorance and being crude.
Yes it is like blaming mine tools ,for doing a bad job......
Do you just call our military men and women tools? Just following orders? Where have I heard that before?
Yes it is like blaming mine tools ,for doing a bad job.....
Victor, it appears you do not even know why these books were being destroyed. Did you know that prisoners were communicating with each other by writing in the margins and also getting inflammatory messages from the outside as well. Their people are the ones that desecrated the Quran our military was simply eliminating the communication. Unless you know the full story, save your ignorant judgement.
They may have been following orders to burn books, but any intelligent person would know to either not burn the Qur'an in view of witnesses or not burn that specific book at all. On the other hand, if prisoners are able to communicate with outsiders then someone isn't doing their job correctly at the detention facility. I think this proves it.
It was stupid to burn them where the prisoners could see them, and if they were sending messages, and these prisoners were that dangerous, then shouldn't the books been boxed up and sent somewhere for evaluation by an intelligence officer? Every country has things that are offensive to them, we know just how sensitive the Moslems are over the Koran. Our state department tries to make sure we don't don't give something potentially offensive to another leader ex: cowhide luggage to a Hindu. The terrorists are always looking for ways to inflame the people, and we basically handed this over.
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
The reality is as a member of the military-you do what you are told to do. More then likely the books in question had been marked up to send coded messages from one person to another just as bibles were used by Us & British pows in camps in WW2. Any written text can be used to send coded messages if you have the translator to decode them. These particular books were probably code versions,and as such ought to have been sent to the CIA in Langley,VA and kept for training
HAHA... a conspiracy theory if i ever heard one...
Interesting story! Unfortunately it defines this Muslim nation and many others. I am Christian, but am proud to say that if I witnesses a Muslim, for whatever reason burning a Bible, I would not go out and murder soldiers, or police officers. I certainly would not fill a vehicle with explosives and blow myself up at the entrance of an International Airport while they are changing the guards. Sad state of affairs, and I must admit that there was a time when I cared about the men, women, and children of this nation, but that has since past. To the nations of the free world; let us not spill another drop of blood for this nation, and others. They hate themselves, they hate us, and I do not believe there is anything we can do that will change that. Leave and let them kill one another. They obviously enjoy this. Lastly, maybe there is no place for western media in combat zones, where those who visit as spectators do not, and will never understand the pain of a soldier. The U. S. of A., a place this Canadian loves very much, must wake up and realize that your efforts around the world will never be appreciated. The media covers your military strength, but never acknowledges the humanitarian work done each and every day by American, with American money, all around the world. The United Nations, which you house and greatly support financially, does not support your views, and there are some there who block your every effort. Your media is your biggest enemy. Schooled in Liberal leaning, bleeding heart universities, where grammar is important, but reality is ignored. Canada, a nation of just 34 million people, with a small military, played an important combat role in this Muslim nation, and I now fear that the 157 men and women lost their have died in vain. Forgive me, but I do believe this, so please come home, and if we must look back, let it be to remember those lost, injured, minds damaged forever, yet not understood, and to make certain we never throw our precious youth away to support a Muslim Nation again.
Victor, I have actually worked at the incineration site in Bagram; I have also operated the incineration units there. Hundreds of books and magazines are disposed of, as people send thousands of such items to the base each year. Many of the books are old and raggedy, some are new but they will have a hundred copies of the same book, and its not necessarily a good book.
Trash that comes in goes to a sorting area, which is run by Bosnian's (Muslims) and Afghans (Muslims). No one simply comes in and dumps directly into the burn pit because there may be hazardous or even explosive items in the load.
So those Qurans would been sorted on the pad by a Muslim, then transported by a front end loader to the pit by another Muslim. I don't know if the Quran ended up in the pit, or an incineration unit. Since they where retrieved half burned, I'm guessing they went to the pit or there would be nothing left.
These type items are watched for and removed when spotted. Since thousands of pounds of trash arrives daily in about 170 trucks delivering waste, something obviously got by the sorters (Muslims).
The most well thought out and informed response on here. Thank you. Everyone else is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. I can only imagine the amount of trash generated at that base. Your description explains clearly how this could happen and why it is not some huge conspiracy. I think the author is a bit of an idiot for thinking that no book should ever be disposed of...ever. Well perhaps they don't need the 79th copy some crappy book that somebody got in a care package and then donated to the library on their way back to the states, there are a hundred reasons to dispose of books...an none of them have to be have to be inspired by ominous or a conspiracy. I do love how some people would rather justify the other sides opinion rather than look for the actual truth of the situation.
Man, all sorts of typos in my response. Go gentle on me grammar police.
Very well said.
The U.S is not only an occupier and an invader, but also a prime provocateur when it comes to people's beliefs. it won't be long before they will get kicked out of Afghanistan by force and resistance, same as their predecessors, the Russians, the English, etc...
Their mistake was burning them in front of the wrong people which with 20-20 hindsight should have been obvious.
Your a moron! Islam requires the Quran to be burned when it has been desecrated. Get educated on the culture of a country before you speak. Those soldiers are more culturally sophisticated than you.
What were we supposed to do? Inspect every book to see if it had a coded message? How ridiculous. Gingrich is actually right. (Scary that those words actualy came out of my keyboard, but true).
no, gingrich is wrong. Whoever gave those orders in fear that the books contained messages, should have had them boxed up and sent to Timbuktu.
Timbuktu's a Muslim town.
Gingrich is an idiot. He made the statement about Obama simply for political gain and simply because it was a Democrat that did it. We had what we felt was a legitimate reason for burning the books, to prevent the passing of messages between inmates, but didn't consider all the aspects of what we were doing. In retrospect, it was a mistake and could have been handled differently, like just taking them away, so we apologized. That seems pretty straight forward to me, but of course I'm not a Republican runnign for president.
Peter, I agree. Not a big fan of Gingrich, but he's right on this one.
It's just words on paper. Nothing else.
A work of fiction, actually.
Just like every other religiously affiliated book.
In the military, if the boss says do it, you do it. Failed leadership, NOT the fault of the soldiers. Even if they have misgivings, the brass DOES NOT want to hear it. Do as you're told, or be punished.
and even if they followed orders, why did they do it in such a way that it became known to the Afghans? Couldn't they have just burned them as trash with only US soldiers present? Sounds to me like they got a kick of out displaying what they were doing. Utter stupidity. This is not the first time the muslims have reacted to burning their book.
Perish the thought that following orders makes every single soldier culpable. Let's not forget, Eichmann was just following orders too.
I hate to tell you Allison but you need to check yourself your way off base and obviously pro Obama.....Your opinion is just that yours.....completely disagree with everything you said.....The Presidents apology was centered solely on the basis and the fact that he himself is a Muslim and he was personally offended by it......However when these radicals burn the American flag, which seems to happen on a daily basis, our leader doesn't call a news conference to voice his outrage....whys that?? Because he understands that it's their right to protest any way they choose....it's my right as well to burn the Koran, or the bible or any other book i feel like burning.....we don't owe anyone any apologies....
Mary Jane, you are the poster child for an ignorant, racist, moron. You call the President a Muslim, which he is not and if he was, that would be better than what you are. Your parents must be proud, they raised a mindless fool.
Eddie
You are the moron. We are in a war.
1. Obama is not Muslim
2. The book burning happened to stop the inmates from communicating each other.
3. Obama is apologizing for accidental Quran burning which insulated many Muslims in that region.
4. As Obama is doing his job to keep peace in the world instead of promoting anarchy and chaos, you Mary Jane sit on the computer doing nothing but bashing the president over baseless and mindless facts. None of you have the balls to successfully keep the world in order like Obama. Please have some respect and stop spreading lies.
insulted* not insulated and this response was to Mary Jane.
We're in an illegal occupation, not a war.
@ FallenSoldier. thank you for a good comment.
A National flag and a Holy Book are 2 different items all together.
By apologizing Obama did the right thing not because he was a former leader, US Servicemen shouldn't have burnt any Quran especially knowing that Muslims respect their Holy Book more than anything else, and any move to downgrade the book results in what we know Muslims for.
Mary-Jane,
You seem like a person who has done her research before reaching your own thoughtful conclusions. So can you please answer one question for me. If Obama is pro-Muslim, then why did he kill Osama Bin Laden????? and did he apologize for that??
Mary Jane, the ignorance and hatred behind your comments leaves me speechless. I won;t even try to address the lies in your remarks, but will ask you to consider this- if the US were occupied by an Islamic military and they burned Christian Bibles, I have the sense that you would be outraged.
Right. Go ahead and pull the "Obama is a Muslim" card. That's very intelligent of you. You do realize that we have American soldiers in Afghanistan, right? Why would our President NOT apologize? Our soldiers are already targets for extremists, and now this event has the potential to turn the general population against them. We aren't at war with Afghanistan. We are at war with the terrorists in Afghanistan, so why would we hand them an opportunity to garner more public support? Obama has chosen to take the high road in this situation, even if the other side has not. How disappointing to let something like this reverse the work that our soldiers have done there: the lives lost, the lives disrupted, tax payer money spent...those are all really GOOD reasons for Obama to apologize.
lady you are proof why books should never be burned....but rather mailed to you and marked urgent
Haha! Nice one!
)
Mary Jane, you are just another ignorant yada yada gal who subscribes to men controlling your life and cannot think for yourself. You are a typical American conservative woman, oblivious to the real world ...maybe you have a crush on Hannity>? Have you ever been out of your state, let alone your country? Where is your proof that the President is a muslim? You sort of ignorant comments send independents like me reeling! I'll be damned if I vote to support a man that appeals to your kind of mentality. Thanks, but no thanks. Intellect trumps ignorance.
$100 says she/he is a Sara Palin fan.
You are the reason that I am embarrassed to be an American.
Another simple minded troll, who needs to move out of the USA.
I saw pictures of soldiers burning Bill O'Reilly's book. Where's the outrage, Fox News?
Mary Jane, there is no reason to believe that Obama is a Muslim other than the word of GOPists who wouldn't compliment a democrat if their life depended on it. How is he a muslim if he says that he is a CHRISTIAN? Maybe we should VOTE to decide what religion Obama is?
I'm gonna go ahead and say that Mary Jane is "un-American" here. Even if Obama were a Muslim (which he isn't), aren't you kind of limiting his freedom of religion which is protected under the Bill of Rights? I'm pretty sure it doesn't say in there anywhere that you have freedom of religion as long as it isn't Muslim.
You are dumb. This is the only response you will understand. Seek knowledge before expressing yourself simple one. You will be much more informed and less angry.
Destroying "Sacred Scriptures" is sacriligious; an expression of hatred for the Universal GOD! ..... Furthermore, "True-Believers" visiting on-line "Sacred Scriptures" should 'hard-copy', prior to deleting / destroying.
"Sacred scriptures" is nonsense.
Are you aware that an awful lot of people don't live in this country, and that of the people that do live in this country not all of them are Christians, at least not the type of Christianity that you believe in. Fortunately you and your kind are far out numbered. Unfortunately, your the type of person the rest of the world thiks of when they think of the United States.
I'm still stupefied on why and how the military got to such low, it is a far cry from what ought to be done by US service men.
However Afghans took this too far methinks
Not having a draft lowers the average IQ of the military by about 20 points.
Burn them all! It's their holy book, right? The holy book that says nothing about using violence as a way to protest or kill others, yet they do. They obviously do not read it, so burn it. Hey, to all you idiots out there, if you think you can burn my flag, then you better believe I will be burning what you hold dear, too, hopefully with you wrapped up inside it. It's easy to criticize these soldiers who probably made an honest mistake some idiot lieutenant told them to do; I can see by the writing of other commentors you have never served, so you have no reason to talk. Ya heard!
Good for you – you've won the race to the bottom. What are we, children? You want to behave like a knuckle-dragging barbarian, and then claim moral superiority? You're a fool.
It is a race to the bottom...If burning the flag is an act of free speech, then isn't it the same for burning a so-called holy book? (I would describe more than just the Koran as a 'so-called holy book)...
No Jim, I haven't served. There's this little thing called, "history", and I like to read it. History shows that war is a racket. Read your Smedley Butler, ya fascist.
Burning the book is not the best way to attack the slimy concepts in the quran. The best way is to offer the best in ethics showing the failure of the quran.
Good idea but impossible when the material is subject to personal interpretation which is very often twisted beyond recognition for any number of reasons.
There's just as many slimy concepts in the Bible. Let's burn all of those, too. I burned mine but I didn't do it when the Talibangelists were watching.
No doubt that there are some right-wingers who would think of killing somebody over a burned bible, but the shear amount of violent protest in Afghanistan over the Koran? Do you really think there's a comparison?
Critters than value a book over a human life are inhuman.
Apparently, the only correct way to address the situation was to build a Quran disposal site in a complex deep below the mountains where they could naturally deteriorate over the course of millions of years. Anyone know of a good place that fits this description?
People are stupid.
The correct way to handle this would have been to give the offending Korans to a local religious leader/imam to dispose of properly, according to their custom (even if it includes burning, if an Afghan leader burned it, not our soldiers this would not have happened).
To hand over these books which were defiled by the very people you are suggesting to hand it over to. Enough crap. If a muslim holy site is defiled by those that use it to perch snipers, make bombs, plot their next suicide mission, etc. should be destroyed; same is true for books defiled by the same people that clearly don't respect their own sacred instruments. Once it's defiled, it's not on the NATO members' shoulders for descicrating these books; burn 'em.
Yes, we shouldn't burn books. Our President has apologized, as have several military officers.
Islamists need to stop burning people. The whole world needs to stop burning people.
@Peter: Uh, they could have simply collected them and airlifted them on one of the hundreds of planes (maybe thousands!) that takeoff from that area every single day! Then they could have done what they wanted with them privately. This was a really dumb move. And in front of Afghan locals or personnel? Just imagine, really, if the roles were reversed, and Bible were being publicly burned... My Lord, the reaction... Come on people!
the reaction would be non-existent. Muslims persecute and kill Christians every day and that doesn't get headlines or outrage Americans. Do you honestly think burning Bibles by dirty Muslims is going to incite Americans? They're barbaric and still stuck in a century long ago.
Of course the reaction is absurd and barbaric... But that doesn't make the initial provocation and stupid act right! That was my only point here.
We know better, or should know better... yet we did it. Now people have lost their lives. It was an avoidable situation. Who was stupid? I sat we were.
We know better? Better than what? burning thousands of Korans b/c we discovered they were being used for terrorists plots and communication? We didn't have time to inspect every Koran for clues and messages. I love how you fools are paying right into the terrorists plans and actually seem to be taking up for them. Even if you don't agree with burning a bible or koran, it's still anyone's right to do it. I guess it's only accepted when it's in the United States and a bible that is being burned. I see and hear foreigners preaching hatred and destruction of the U.S. every day right here in America, so I assume we are so politically correct and have to accept, respect, and support every religion, country, and view, while the same courtesy isn't extended to us? Like said earlier, we are our own enemy and root of our destruction!
Like these books were taken downtown and burned in front of a Mosque? Come on, get real. Somehow, I can't see U.S. military personnel standing around roasting marshmallows over this fire, nor Afghans being allowed to be close enough to be able to see specifically what was being burned, either.
Uh, it's an airbase, with access by Afghan personnel, police, intelligence agents, and military forces who working alongside NATO and U.S. forces.
Who killed the two U.S. officers inside the Interior Ministry this week? Yes, an Afghan with credentials to be there, onsite.
Don't defend something that was simply dumb... The books were already collected, they could have simply been removed, without all the brouhaha.
Also, the article says: "The burning took place in view of local Afghan staff who felt compelled to get word of the action out to the population at large."
You can factcheck that, but honestly, there will be Afghans of all types that would frequent that base: dignitaries, officials, intelligence agents, military, police, like I said before... It is just plain dumb. End of story. And now look at what they have on their hands?
CM: maybe things have changed, but when I was in the service civilian employees were not involved in stuff like burning garbage, nor were they directly involved with military personnel who might be burning garbage.
Santorum's head would explode.
C M – good comment. It is simply stupid to provoke people with the burning of books – there were a lot of better options available. And an apology to the people who were provoked is in order if it serves to prevent additional bloodshed.
In this day and age, they should have used a paper shredder.
And that reactions of the masses down there would not change one iota. You are destroying a sacred spiritual text-plain and simple. Common sense says you don't do that unless you have a deathwish.
Burning books by American soldiers in uniform could only be construed as an act of war. The books could have been packed only a 2 1/2 ton truck and transported to a secure, private burn site. It was clearly provocation. Having been in the Army, somehow the officers convinced me that they are not stupid or naive. So now we have a fight on our hands and it seems it is one the US soldiers wanted.
Invading a country for no other reasons than to build an oil pipeline and steal their lithium might be considered an act of war, too. Especially since the only thing the Afghans did was not turn over Osama Bin Laden who wasn't even in the country at the time.
The outcry and world press wouldn't even exist if Bible's were burned by Muslims. Muslims kill innocent Americans and Jews every day and consistently promote/speak of wiping us off the face of the earth, but this Koran burning is unacceptable and an outrage? Unreal.
Actually, they have burned Bibles, burned our flag, and blown innocent women, children, elderly, and anyone else that they deem worthy of their barbaric ways. They're putting someone that chooses to convert from Islam to death simply because he professes another faith...enough rationalizing what we should do or not...
stickyd: Ever thought or heard of innocent Muslims killed by Jews and Christians everyday by the name of their respective sacred books, the Talmud and the Bible? I invite you to read a little more history and watch less Fox-news.
I guess I was wrong. Americans are the ones preaching hatred and unacceptance against Muslims and Islam. We are the ones that want all of them to convert to our ways or face annihilation. Oh wait, I was right...that is what Muslims believe and do. You act as if Americans are walking up to innocent Muslims and just killing them b/c they won't conform to our ways. That's what they are doing to Christians and any American they can get close to. Wake up people, their pc correctness is our own doom!
@ TheOtherSideOfTheStory – c'mon, you're not really expecting anybody here to be fair and objective, are you?
This is what is wrong with our education system.
This woman is clueless.
No Americans burned any books, it was other members of NATO and the US had nothing to do with it.
No wonder people are so uneducated when they graduate from a clueless educational system teaching lies.
Who's clueless??? I think it's you1
We need to get out troops out of that country. It was really stupid to destroy those books right in front of others why weren't they moved to another location for disposal?
@Louisa: My exact point above (about removing them to a private site, which is VERY easy to do, being that they had already collected them all anyways).
It just seems so stupid to me. How could this of happened? What's the point? If they there were private messages being passed, just remove the books, get them out of there, and dispose of them privately. But burn them publicly, in a Muslim country, in front of Afghans (who will undoubtedly spread the word)... Goodness...
Good , balanced op piece. The thing I learned was the potential of messages passed within those materials.
So, the burning of books had a reason. To burn them in plain view was the big mistake. It reminds me of Vietnam ( I never served there), where you never know which civilian was really on your side. The President apologizing? Good-anything
or any attempt to quell more death of American troops or civilians until be can git the 'ell out of Dodge.
The worse decision was to admit we did it. A number of lives could have been spared if we had just denied the whole thing "No, we never burned any Korans"... Period, end of story. Whoever decided to "confirm" this story was an idiot, and this includes people at the highest ranks.
Gee, i guess you're right, Littlebird... We should just LIE about everything. I mean, how could the Iraq War have been a failure without Bush lying about it? Or atleast, WMDs WERE found... it's just that the U.S. is where said WMDs orgininated from.
Nah... lies never hurt ANYBODY...
If it's like Viet Nam ( I DID serve there) you'd be safe in assuming that 85% of the population was on the other side as soon as the sun went down.
@angel611: Doesn't matter if it was NATO or not (I honestly don't know). Point is that everyone knows this is a U.S. War, started by the U.S., and essentially run by the U.S., regardless of NATO's involvement or presence. And if NATO did it, why did the U.S. officially apologize for it?
Oh really thanks for the in sight information. Muslims also shouldn't go kill 7 people over said books. Both acts are barbaric. But honestly can you compare a burned book to that of a life no. It's apples and oranges.
It shows just how cheap life is in some parts of the world.
Life is clearly regarded to be cheap in Washington, DC or we never would have had our boots on the ground in Afghanistan OR Iraq.
What's wrong with a little book burning just now and then. Heck, Hitler did it all the time!
During Russian invasion of Afghanistan Americans were using same terrorists of today with similar religious motivation and were blaming Russians, always wrongly, for burning Qurans and in this way fueling war against red Army in Afghanistan. However never it was proved that Russians have any where in Afghanistan desecrated Quran. But today Afghans saw with their own eyes that Americans have burnt Quran which has been testified by the apology of the US president. Reaction is already there and now it will be more difficult for Americans to stay safe further on Afghan soil with such arrogance.
Very true. America and all it's nati allies r already being defeated in their histories longest war. The war in Afghanistan (the graveyard of empires). Same as Brits, Russians....etc
I assume that writing all over the "sacred text" to pass messages on to your Jihadi Brothers exceptable?
Amen. It is those pathetic excuses of life that defend immorality of a religion and criticize one for its forgiveness. Islam does not teach forgiveness. As a Christian we love and forgive everyone and let God sort them out.
Marcus, you are obviously a dumb christian that know nothing about Islam. I suggest you read more about Islam before you try to give your opinion. The number of Muslims killed by your "forgiving Christians" and your "forgiving Jews" are 5 times more than the other way around. The U.S is an invader that needs t be battled and kicked out of there by freedom fighters. Don't make a wrong doing right and claim it on the religion. U.S get OUT of Afghanistan.
Urinating on dead soldiers, burning other religion's sacred books are nothing but gestures that accomplish nothing. Gestures that put not only American soldiers, but all NATO soldiers at risk. Obama accomplished the real thing that puts terrorists in their place, that made the world a safer place, not just empty gestures that only make the world more dangerous
Absolutely correct. Not only should the US not be burning anyone's books, what happened to common sense? If the materials were being used to send coded messages, where is the logic in destroying the evidence???
The stupidity of some of the commenters here who support the destruction and/or object to the absolutely necessary apology just beggars belief.
The Occupy movement objects to the lack of accountability, honesty and integrity at home – maybe we should extend that objection to every representative of the US who is overseas...
Thank you Allison for this informative and reasonable article. It is so sad that our force are burning (whether intentional or unintentional) quran, it is just ignorant, and unnecessary. I pray people should read the contents and get an understanding what is inside, the word of God, nothing from any people in this earth.
I have read enough of it to feel it has no connection whatsoever to divine inspiration.
II have read comic books with more inside than any religious text has to offer.
I feel sorry for Bob and William for not understanding this.
I feel sorry for Jackson for not understanding that their book was written by Mohammend the Molester. No one should need to read the rantings of a psychotic rapist and murderer.
Then perhaps we should be burning the Congressional Record instead.
This is what is inside"
Then when the Sacred Months have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât) , and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful}
I dont need to Allah's forgiveness because I have committed no sin in worshipping whatever way I worship. As far as I am concerened Allah can go to HELL and stay there.
First, you should enlighten everyone on the racism that extends through Islam and how many Christians die at the hands of Muslim lead governments... We, Christians, don't react by slaying Muslims that burn our Bible... but it is those fools who kill in the name of protest. Islam is a lost cause. Religion of hate is no religion.
lLooks to me, you need more enlightenment than any other one.
Well Fareed Zakaria is turning out to be a prolific panderer of nonsense. Admittedly, he's paid on a per word basis, so we'll see some trite trash sqeedgeeing out from under of his pen nib for some time so he can put his kids through college, but at the same time, he is losing many of his former admirers and becoming downright antagonistic to the American spirit. Just like a woman's slip, his Indianness is showing.
Did you buy his speech on Itunes? Not that big a supporter myself.
The whole issue is nonsense. People ouraged and willing to kill others because soem literature is burned is an action we would expect 500 years ago. An US flag is burned every week and US troops dont go into a rampage killing others just because a group of m.o.r.o.n.s decided to burn a flag. The same goes here. One m.o.r.o.n. ordered some troops to burn some books, and let me tell you, I bet they didnt even know what they were burning, then the Taliban, who treats their women worst than they treat their mules are outraged...
I agree with this opinion piece on many levels. For way too long US leadership has acted as a bully in the world and this must end. Then to attack our president because for once we have a leader who is strong enough to apologize, do you think we are all stupid? Theodore Roosevelt gave us the formula to behave properly when dealing with international issues. With the exception of his taking of the land to build the Panama Canal, I still believe that speaking softly while carrying a big stick applies more today than it did at the turn of the last century. It is time to stop being a bully in the playground of the world.
A burning of a book... is punishable by death? You are just as ignorant as the first neolithic man.
Just when I begin to forget why I like Obama, he goes and does something really mature and intelligent.
Burn some paper, they kill over it. What a screwed-up part of the world. Get our troops out of that cesspool! They aren't worth "saving".
Another gullible idiot that thinks the U.S are doing the :saving" over there. that's called invasion and occupation. There is absolutely nothing good about it.
The US went in to get Osama Bin Laden. Why are we still there? Pull out and let them all kill each other. All the Middle Eastern countries, left to their own devices, will end up like Syria, Iraq (pre-invasion), Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt, etc., a strong minority brutality ruling the majority. Lets pull out and let them sort it out. Then if we have to go back in our job will be easier. If going back in they are against us.
Newt Gingrich is an opportunistic rat that has no regards for anything but his electability. The people here claiming burning the Koran is no big deal, would be all up in arms if we had Afghan soldiers burning the US flag on US soil.
I am actually embarrassed to be an American. We are not only dumb, fat, spoiled but are really, really immature.
LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT
As usual in an Op. Ed. piece an important distinction was left out. The material was not burned to suppress the ideas contained. Burning is an honorable, acceptable form of disposal for a Christian Bible. Unfortunately, nobody thought to ask a Muslim Chaplin if it was also acceptable for a Quran.
Also, the author's remark about the "accelerating deterioration of the U.S. position in Afghanistan" is not supported by the facts.
We need to get the out of Afghanistan ASAP. Bin Laden is dead. We went in to get Bin Laden and as many of his cronies as possible. Mission accomplished. Those we haven't captured or killed are in Pakistan and unless we plan on invading that country there's little we can do about it. It's time to leave. No more American blood should be spilled trying to help cavemen who value words on paper more than human life. Leave these Neanderthal's to their own devices. Let whichever party wins the coming civil war that will occur as soon as American leave, be it now or in 2014 or in 2024 as Republicans would have it, that we have our nukes pointed at their country and should one more terrorist attack occur against us that originates from their soil that we won't hesitate to turn that hole into a radioactive parking lot.
How was the president's apology "courageous"? They probably should not be burning the books in public but give me a break, It did not take courage for him to say he was sorry.
I don't think we are winning the hearts and minds of the Afghan people. We bring our troops home to protect OUR borders.
I never heard of an invader winning the hearts and minds of locals, except sellout-traitors.
I assume that writing all over the "sacred text" to pass messages on to your Jihadi Brothers is acceptable? (sorry to repeat myself but I felt the need to fix the typo on the original post)
Don't ask lefties to think. They just cannot do it.
Lefties and righties need both to get out of Afghanistan, that's called taking other people's land for God sake.
Shouldn't you be out praying or hating something? Right wingers love to pray and hate.
The books were burned as a matter of course in destroying them. Like burning an old flag is acceptable. The books had already been defaced by the very upright Muslims from which they were confiscated. The fact that 43% of men and 12% of women in Afghanistan are illiterate shows the problem. These people are stone age. They will NEVER be anything more than what they are now as long as they adhere to the old ways. We really have no business in their business. We should leave them all to destroy each other.
It's amazing how costly it is to fight stone-age people ($1 trillion dollars and counting) and not win.
Time for the USA to refocus and get out of Afganistan ASAP. It is only obvious the troops don't want to be their the job is done. There is nothing of value in Afganistan for the USA and you can't force people to change that have hatred imbedded in their DNA. Muslim folks in that whole region can determine their fate why should you pay for it in blood and trillions of dollars that will eventually destroy the American economy and way of life. If you want to correct this problem you have to go to the source and these are the folks who are feeding this carnage Pakistan / Russian and China. Don't give Pakistan aid and tell the other two bad influences to backoff. Both Russia and China wouldn't dare start WW3 and wreck their way of life god you guys whatever happened to the "Big Stick"??
...It's not about the books....it's the religion....this religion is just....kill...kill...kill....and nothing else...
Ridiculous statement taken out of context. We were not burning the Qurans so much as what was hand written in them by our enemy. There were notes to the prisoners and inflammatory rhetoric. These books needed to be destroyed but they in hindsight should have had a cleric involved in their proper destruction.
The author of this article is another treacherous dhimmi, quick to take the side of our enemies. The soldiers did right in urinating on the carcasses as a way to show contempt for the enemy. That is the only language Moslems understand, not the hand-wringing, self-appointed humanists and society-savers whom the Moslems laugh at and have contempt for, because Moslems understand only force. And if our soldiers burn a few korans – well, tough. Suck it up, Moslems. This is war, and if the protesters come too close the troops should open fire and kill a goodly number of them, and repeat the lesson until it's learned.
Why aren't you there instead of safely hiding behind the computer in your mother's basement?
What's really hilarious is Gingrich thinks we should never apologize for burning the Quran, but the only other government widely known to burn books was Nazi Germany. I don't think Gingrich's Israeli allies or Holocaust survivors would appreciate book-burning at any level. And it also gives a light to the presidential candidate that is most dangerous if elected.
If a Muslim in Afghanistan found a Bible and recognized it AS a Bible it would surely be destroyed you fool... along with its owner no doubt. Why this double standard from Atheists or Agnostics?
So let me get this... Obama writes an apology letter to Karzai for the burning of the books... Should Obama have a letter written back to him from Karzai apologizing for the killings of the soldiers?
How many Muslims would be killed if they burnt a Bible in America, or Afghanistan today this very moment? NONE. Let the pigs die from their own hands... enough is enough.
We kill people for oil, they kill over sacred text. I think we are both foolish.
I thought only Nazis were book burners? This is a sad reflection on our military and whoever ordered this should be up on charges for conduct unbecoming to an officer. This is a waste of life and Afghanistan is a waste period.
You know, I don't recall all of this media outrage when the same base burned 500+ bibles. Also, I like your statement, "reading materials that may or may not have been used by Afghan inmates to pass encoded messages."
May or may not? You liberals are so obvious sometimes it's sickening.
Has the President of Iraq apologized because Christians are being murdered, terrorized and driven out of that country? Has the Saudi King to whom Obama infamously bowed apologized because it's illegal to build a church in his country or conduct a public Christian worship service? Or because his predecessor King Faisal told anyone who'd listen that Jews murdered gentiles to consume their blood on Passover?
We are above them, no wonder why your type doesn't understand that torture is wrong. You are above nothing, you are the low of the lows.
The ability to apologize when one is wrong is the sign of a real leader. There has been too much high school tough guy BS in politics. I am proud of our president.
IF we were wrong, perhaps there should be an apology, but I don't think they get to decide what is right or wrong and in my opinion, the burning of books that were believed to contain intra prison messages was perfectly reasonable
Important rule to live by in life. Do things because you have a moral compass, not because you expect something in return.
My bad, Christians are never deserving of apologies.
Never read the koran and I never will. Any rag that is so strongly supported by such a large group of murdering neanderthals could never be worth my time nor the paper that it is printed on.
Obama needs to quit apologizing to these POS rags!
Fair enough. I am sure they wouldn't give a rat's as* whether you read it or not. All they ask is not to offend their belief by burning their holy book.
I thought only Nazis were book burners. Whoever decided this should be brought up on charges of conduct unbecoming to an officer. Afghanistan is a waste of time, money, and resources. They have had ten years of our support and help and they don't even have a central government. Time to leave.
Your post was a waste of time, money and resources too.
Do you have any points Bill or are you just a sad little person?
Sorry, but you are just an idiot. What should have been done with these books that were believed to be being used to send intra prison messages?
Ms Stanger, this isn't a matter of middle age book burning. It's laughable to even angle the story as some suppression of ideas contained in books. You are looking at this event through a Western historical prism. The Korans (books) in question were already desecrated by Afghanis or Al-Queda so as to pass encoded messages. What method of disposal would please right a wing extremist? Ms Stanger, how would dispose of those books? I don't see any suggestions in your article.
These Muslims are ignorant. They even killed their innocent brothers and sisters who never burnt the qur'an! Fools. Yes, if someone insults your religion, by all means be upset, but have SELF control. This is an example of the pathetic-ness of this religion and the cavemen who make up its following! IMHO muhammad is DEAD – no where in their good book the qur'an does it say he ever rose from the dead. Our savior Jesus Christ died and rose from the dead. There is nothing miraculous about a dead man named muhammasd
I suggest you and people like you who have single perspective of things to learn about the opposing ideas. There you will see your reflection, an ignorant afghan chanting and insulting christianity or whatever is sacred for you... Your little brain is unable to grasp the fact that you won't get anywhere by not making an effort to understand them. You obviously have no clue what they think and why they do...
Those books should have been thrown in the local "poo pond" instead. Much more fitting.
I find it so funny to read the comments from the writer and from the appeasers here on this sight. Every one over looks that the prisoners were writing secret messages on the pages. It is also against Islam to desecrate the Qua ran but I we don't see the Muslims or any of you liberals commenting on this. If your going to report the story the report the whole thing don't go out of your way to make Americans look like bad.
If the books were thought to contain messages that could aid in the harm of our servicemen and country they certainly should be burned. "just words on paper" as larryc said. The error was burning in sight of anyone that was not doing the burning. Pres. Obama should not have apologized. And, I hope that our children that are studying under Ms. Stanger at Middlebury College also have the chance to be taught under someone who can counter her views since they are detrimental to the long term survival of our great country.
No. The problem is that we invaded a country, killed thousands of innocent people, show no respect for their beliefs, take people to some Island off Cuba, pee on dead soldiers, torture prisoners, have female soldiers get their photos taken with naked hooded prisoners, accidentally blow up entire families... and when it is all over, they know we will leave and the bad guys will come right back like we did after the Soviets ran away.
I am glad there are people on this page who can make rational comments. Yes, just like that. For once, suppose afghans invaded the US and killed millions of us and that they burnt bible and insulted us every chance they got... what would you do?
All you folks that are bent because of some perceive slight to your right wing rhetoric should know something. Obama is lifting us above them with his actions. We lead by being above them. Why do you think torture is wrong? It is because if you use torture you are a bottom feeder and you will always be a bottom feeder. Time to act like adults and real Americans, like the great generation that didn't use torture in WWII even though it was used against them.
I am now a Right Winger because I believe in Jesus? Wow.... JUST WOW!
You think Jesus would burn books? How does your belief justify burning books? How does Obama offend your beliefs by apologizing for stupid actions?
Obama would do America a favor by getting out of the Middle East. Stop throwing money into religious coops who are out for Christians and throwing money to Israel to try and keep them alive. We have our own problems in the country and our neighboring countries. Lets help us out here in the Americas.
We should leave Afghanistan. Why are you crying like a baby over an apology?
Afghanistan is in SW Asia, not the 'Middle East'.
Another liberal loon defending a weak president. What liberals fail to understand is that these people constantly hide behind their religion to justify their terrorism and killing of people. They will always look for excuses no matter what you say or do.
Their country, their rules.
As usual, the academics and left want to blame America for everything wrong in the world.
LOL. And where would we be without people pointing fingers at the educated who declare the obvious and simple facts that finger pointers hate?
If you actually did a little research, you'd find that (GET THIS) the U.S. and the west (WAIT FOR IT)... IS ACTUALLY CAUSING MOST OF THE WORLDS PROBLEMS!!
I know. It was news to me too.
Our brave soldiers did not burn books, they burned secret messages written in "holy" books.
Why our President did not ask for apology when churches and people are burned in Iraq, Nigeria, Egypt,and
Pakistan?
In Islam, you cannot add or mention or write any word. What about secret codes and messages harming the security of our troups? First, go, my dear lady, learn something about Islam, then come and defend the apology of our President.
Best comment I read so far.
You can take them away but why do you burn them?
It is very simple. We are supposed to be civilized. They are not.
While burning the Koran may or may not have been a good idea (we will never know if there was code in them because they are destroyed) . . . Murdering human beings is the epitomy of idiocy and it surprises me that point is not made more often.
What books would Jesus burn?
You shall not murder.
No where in these message does she claim that it was wrong to murder for the burning of this book.
Allison Stanger is a pathetic thinker and excuse for writing as someone who defends the killing due to the burning of the books.
What books would Jesus burn? I don't need your rationalizations.
He would burn the Koran because it was written by a false prophet. Jesus Christ is the only path to the Father. He is the Way, The Truth, and the Light.
He would have needed a time machine.
This is why I am going to vote for anyone running as an ISOLATIONIST for president.
Books should never be burned. PERIOD. I don't care if Adolf Hitler was the Author. And NEVER burn someone's religious doctrine. FREE PEOPLE have the RIGHT and DUTY given to them by their creator to read everything they can to grasp an understanding of the mindset of the author, right or wrong. We are smart enough to decide for ourselves what is right and what is wrong, especially when it comes to political or religious doctrine, including notes in the margin. Even if the notes were an enemy wartime communication then the books should be archived for later public historical display.
Above the books never being burned... people should NEVER, NEVER, be killed.
Exactly!
Agreed. I actually read Hitlers book. I was very interesting. One cannot leran from studying himself.
What about child p0rn0graphy?
Allison Stanger is another muslim appeaser and obama lemming.
Both of them need to grow a spine and get off the politically correct bandwagon.
The United states has no business being in or financially supporting any govt connected to Afghanistan period.
The excuse was to get bin Laden when all along he was hiding in Pakistan.we have no business being there and the people there are all brain washed-have an obsession to violence regarding their bible. we need to stop fighting wars over oil or opium.
Obama apologized because we can be above this. The petty lost religious zealots should realize that. Why are the right wingers crying like babies for every apology in the world? Because they want Rick Santorum to be President. They think the end justifies the mean even when it makes them look stupid or like Nazis and it is sad they would hurt their country by acting this way.
"The US should never burn books"?? Where is your aritcle on Muslims should never burn down Churches and Murder others of differnt faith?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The fools are too blind to see that Muslims burn churches and Christians... but CNN's Allison Stanger would never defend a Christian.
Christians also burn mosques and slaughter Muslim villages, which is what actually led to the present situation in Nigeria.
Somebody said you should "turn the other cheek". I think that is why real Christians understand Obama.
"Real Christians" would repudiate Obama's waging war, not embrace his apology for how he does it. It's my opinion that you've no clue what it means to be a "real Christian". A "real christian" wouldn't worry about his "rights", waging war against terror or anything else, or any of the other things "real christians" are alleged to care about. A "real Christian's" entire existence would be centered around telling others about the love of Christ and how He provided a way to Heaven and being an example of His love. Alas, I fear there might be the same number of true disciples of Christ today as there were 2000 years ago.
How about "Muslims should never slaughter innocent people" in the name of a bogus "jihad". ANYWHERE, ANYTIME.
How offensive that this article runs 19 years TO THE DAY after the WTC bombing by Islamic radicals that killed 6, injured hundreds, and set the stage for 9/11.
If Christians acted as Muslims... the Muslims would not be doing as they are.
And they would be no better too.
Bring back the Crusades. It's time.
I thought Bush was on charge of this!
Obama apologizing was done just a necessary diplomatic act. Doesnt mean he is truly sorry or feels the burning was not appropriate.. Personally im sick of having to be understanding of the beliefs of muslums or any other religion for that matter. Religous people muslums especially are some of the least tolerant people in the world but somehow they need to be treated with little kid gloves when it gomes to their soft skinned fragile belief system. Id ont care the korans were burned ore sanoturum feeling people shouldnt use birth control. Time for them to keep their archaic beliefs to themselves.
"Burning books" is kind of an incendiary (pun intended) headline. These words carry too much baggage. We'll probably never know for sure, but I suspect that the truth would be more like "burning what they thought was trash".
The decision to put these particular books into the trash pile was probably made a few steps earlier in the process–perhaps in ignorance or perhaps with malice. There certainly should have been a step in the decision process that addresses the cultural significance of whatever activity is under consideration. Surely the military must have liaison people from the local community working with them. SOP!
Did anyone mention the books were used to pass messages? They were desecrated by the Taliban first.
Stop, listen, and learn before throwing Americans under the bus .....
They should have exposed the Taliban for this. They had a great opportunity that was lost.
Obviously as a writer you have no idea of the situation and the content of your comment should be wiped out before it was printed. Your ignaroance about this situation is amazing.
Are you in Afghanistan Paul or speaking out your rear?
So is it sacrilegious if a Quran is burned when someone uses a bomb against a mosque or a car, or a group of people (one of whom may be carrying the holy book?
I agree with the article's sentiment; dont burn books.
But, this amount of outrage coming from groups who routinely torch people, mosques, and other buildings that contain Qurans feels hypocritical and disproportionate.
WHO IS GREATER, THE U.S. ARMY OR A LITTLE BOOK IN ARABIC?
I think in the battle of 300 million Americans vs. 2 billion Muslims we already know who won. Just wait until a school system tells a Muslim child they can't recite their prayers in school because it would be "disruptive". I wonder how many people will die when that happens.
What, you don't think the pledge of allegiance isn't a prayer that mentions god that children are forced to listen to???? Wake up and smell the fascism.
Christians don't throw a baby tantrum when Muslims burn the Bible. Mormons don't throw a fit when someone burns the Book of Mormon. Grow up already and join the rest of the world.
I served with US army in Iraq as a cultural adviser as my job to advise them on what to do and what not, I found that officers adhere to my advise, but soldiers often ignore it, as you could see the result.
Thanks for your service sam. I hope they learn to be above this some day.
Allison Stanger's junk is a waste of cyberspace. What a biased piece of filth. I thought FOX News was biased well CNN you're no better.
I think America needs to choose a day to become BURN A QURAN DAY. And we can have a nice little barbecue, cook some meat over the flames of the burning Qurans
the country i remember burning books was nazi germany who was actually in better shape then a leaderless failing america is now...
Stranger report on this... Iranian Pastor Youcef Nadarkhani, 34, has been sentenced to death for being a Christian and refusing to convert to Islam.
Iran is Iran. They kill people for anything they don't like. They were killing Iranians for voting against nutjob. They will fall soon and we will not have to lift a finger because the Arabs are going to rip Iran apart over Syria. God works in mysterious ways and sometimes you just have to have faith and stay above the fray.
19 years ago today Islamic terrorists bombed the World Trade Center for the first time. Let Afghanistan riot and burn itself to the ground after we pull our troops out of there.
Allison Stanger is another muslim appeaser and obama lemming. Both of them need to grow a spine and get off the politically correct bandwagon.
Next time use a paper shredder...... but it is time to get the hell out of that backward country. Escalate the withdrawl of our troops and our MONEY. No more troops and no more money for Afghanistan. No aid no money no nothing.
They should have been stuck in some Afghan cave, to be retrieved in a few thousand years as were the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Excellent idea!
Youcef Nadarkhani was arrested in October 2009 from Rasht for allegedly protesting Islamic instruction in schools for his children, Daniel, 9, and Yoel, 7, and after he sought to register his church. Authorities, however, later changed the charges to apostasy. He has been lodged in a prison in Lakan, about seven miles south of Rasht, since then.
We in America fight to have wandering trekkers released but allow this man to die for being Christian?!
Iran is Iran. They kill people for anything they don't like. They were killing Iranians for voting against nutjob. They will fall soon and we will not have to lift a finger because the Arabs are going to rip Iran apart over Syria. God works in mysterious ways and sometimes you just have to have faith and stay above the fray.
I thought the books had extremest writings in them from prisoners. If you burn it, just buy a new one to replace it. There you go. Problem solved. It's not like these guys were purposely trying to commit sacrilegious acts to the people of Afghanistan. It was totally innocent. I think that's important to remember.
You could just take it away and not burn it. You could also publish an article to Afghans about Taliban desecrating the Koran to wage war.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ! How silly.
Islam has one and only one book. Christianity has one and only one book.
Islam is about 1900 years old. Christianity is about 2000 years old.
Islam has one main Prophet, Mohammed. Christianity has one main Prophet, Jeebus.
Islam societies are theocratic. Christian societies were theocratic, and a trying to be again.
Islam has Sharia Law. Christianity has the Roman Church and its "laws".
Islam brainwashes children. Christianity (and Jews) brainwashes children.
Islam relies on "faith". Christianity relies on "faith".
Islam has an invisible god in the sky. Christianity has an invisible god in the sky.
Islam's god will bring death and destruction on you. Christianity's god will bring death and destruction on you.
Islam believes in life after death in some Paradise. Christianity believes in life after death in some Paradise.
Islam's followers will kill anyone for insulting their god. Christians have killed many for insulting their god.
Islam priests wear dresses and funny hats indoors. Christian Catholic priests wear dresses and funny hats indoors.
Islam believes theirs is the one true god. Christianity believes theirs is the one true god.
Islam believes in Peace on Earth and will kill to get it. Christians believe in Peace on Earth and will kill to get it.
Seems this difference of opinion about some "god" causes religious people to kill other people.
This killing will continue as long as grown men continue to brainwash young children with fear of their god.
That is because they are not Mormon. Mormon is the right answer.
They are actually called Latter Day Saints but don't let that get in your way.
And they wear magical underwear, but don't let that get in your way.
The saddest part is that they all accept the Ten Commandments where is says thou shall not murder.
"Islam has one and only one book. Christianity has one and only one book."
Uh.....guess again. There are 66 books in the Bible, written by MANY different authors, all bearing testimony in some fashion of Christ. The Book of Mormon, which also testifies of Christ, contains 15 books, also written by MANY different authors. The Quran was written solely by one man, Muhammad, and does NOT testify of Christ.
LouAZ, well said! You have restored some of my faith that all of humanity is not insane.
If people made a mistake not knowing it is one thing, but media making this a headline issue knowing very well the reaction of Islamic people, is something to think about. What is the lesson learned?
Alison Stranger may be educated, but she is an idiot. This article is garbage. Opinion or not, she is dead wrong. I am really getting fed up with the progressives in this country. I guess common sense is not common anymore. Sad.
It seems like if somebody exercised some common sense we wouldn't be discussing nine soldiers killed over this stupid act.
Common sense would have kept us out of another land war in Asia.
True but that was not Obama and I wouldn't want to disparage a former president for something he actually did.
Can someone tell me what will be th reaction is you delete an electronic computer copy of koran, or what should happen to a computer which corrupts the electronic copy of th book due to hardware issue?
An interesting question but, when you consider the large number of e-books in Afghanistan, not one the religious leaders have likely considered.
The only thing Allison stranger is an expert on is how to eat organic.
Well trolled troll.
The Koran should be banned and prohibited because it is more violent, discriminatory and antisemitic than Hitler's book "Mein Kampf". Its content is extremely offensive, repulsive, denigrates and humiliates all non-Muslims especially Jews. All Western countries should analyze these violent demonstrations/killings and consider taking actions against this evil religion before it is too late.
You mention "Mein Kampf" then talk about banning offensive books. Priceless!
Burn a Koran for Baby Jesus
Nah... i'll just take a dump in a manjor for the flying spaghetti monster instead.
I wonder how many friends this hippie relic buried after 9/11 (or wanted to and couldn't BECAUSE THERE WAS NO BODY LEFT TO BURY)?
How many people does she know that have served our country in the fight against terror?
I'm thinking of a whole number. It falls between -1 and 1. Can you guess it?
Whole numbers are counting numbers. Zero and -1 are not whole numbers. The rest about what you are wrong about are much deeper.
And just how many Afghanis were involved in 9/11? NONE!.
I wonder how many times Rabid_Pitbull has investigated 9/11 since it was an inside job. I'm thinking of a number between 0 and 0.
Everyone can feel what they want about this, it is your right..I feel that Obama did the right thing, you do not burn holy books, esp knowing what it means to these people. That would be like someone burning your home, The President did nothing wrong, the book burning was wrong, but these men were taking orders. There would be protest no matter what was done. The books were burned bottom line, nothing else matters. The President stood up , he is not a coward, it was not an outrage, the way I see it.
In America, when a US flag has been damaged and is to be taken from service, the proper way to dispose of it is to burn it. Many families have their loved one cremated instead of burial. Buring somthing -especially somethign that is held in high esteme, is an acceptible act.
To the E3- or E4 junior enlisted on the clean up working party, they probably didn't see any issue with properly disposing of a religious text that the prisoners had defaced with their messages. Did anyone ask if they left on the shelves, copies of the Quran that hadn't been marked up? Did they? The American flag is sacred to a US Service member, yet we know it is proper to burn it rather than throw it in the trash if it is soiled. A Muslin cleric int he UK said that they, themselves hold burings of damaged Qurans as well as burials.
The guys stuck with the clean up of the library probably didn'e have disrespect on their "radar" at all, thinking they were doing the right thing.
The rioting over there is rather like the opposition party over here... you hate the other guy and anything they do is an excuse to condem the person, not matter how inane or trivial. Haters just gonna hate.
Simple solution: Bring the troops home now. Mission was accomplished: bin Laden is dead.
Absolutely! Ten years is enough for Afghanistan to get their act together on our dime.
Then how will we steal their lithium?
Dear Lord Baby Jesus, I want to thank you for this wonderful meal, my two beautiful son's, Walker and Texas Ranger, and my Red-Hot Smokin' Wife, Carley.
I read the Qu'rans in question were full of coded text. Yes they SHOULD be destroyed.
Has it ever occurred to anyone to print a huge number of the religious texts that were burned and give them out for free as a good gesture and to show we have no problem with Muslims or what they believe?
Our service men and women have their lives in harms way more so now than when they didn't have people throwing stuff at them. Obviously this situation is a dangerous one. If a service member feels their life is in danger they may pull the trigger on that rifle in their hands and kill a lot of civilians while trying to get one Taliban fighter.
It will cost us a lot more than a few hundred religious texts if we don't get this situation under control.
This situation will escalate if we don't do more to resolve it. Imagine the Taliban burning the Holy Bible. That's what this is like to the Afghanistan Muslims. This is exactly what Bin Laden would have been looking for to get support for what he called a "Holy" war.
Fareed, The United States of America is a free country, unlike whatever country you say you are from. I will burn any book that I want to. All korans should be burned that are in the United States. We do not believe in Sharia Law in the United States. If you believe in the Koran, Please leave and go to another country. We do not need people in the United States that tells us that we have no FREEDOM to burn books.
Wow, what ignorance you possess. Because someone is Muslim, reads the Koran, and lives in the US, they automatically want to impose Sharia Law? Hey genius, did you ever think the reason why Muslims come to this country is because they can openly practice their religion without being under the rule of Sharia Law?
so it is ok for these idiots to burn our flags.....but if we accidently burn some of their flippin books they have the right to riot as well as shoot our guys whild posing as police or afgan soldiers!!??!.....and by the way why do we waste our soldiers on this 5 world shi- hole???. i think we need to send politicians and their sons over there and let them pay the price...
Of COURSE it's okay for them to burn the U.S. flag!! Jeez, why else do you think our taxes go to drop bombs on their children? I mean, isn't that what YOU pay taxes for? You know, since most americans don't have the balls to burn the american flag on their own?
Could we make an exception for books ghost-written for Sarah Palin?
And what about the hundred of Bibles, HOLY BIBLES, that were seized from American soldiers in Afghanistan last year, and BURNED???? NOt a freaking word about that!!!! What utter hypocrisy.
You should post a link to this article or proof of this action.
Fat chance of that.
Actually Rob, the Bibles belonged to ONE soldier and they were printed in Pashto and Dari. General Order 1 prohibits giving items of this nature to local Afghans so these Bibles, obviously meant for Afghans, were seized. No one knows if they were burned during the daily disposal of trash or not. This happened sometime in 2008 (during the Bush presidency) but the exact date has never been discussed.
We had a lunatic minister down in the South who was going to burn Qur'ans in his church and that made things a lot more dangerous for our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. The officer who burned these Qur'ans should be relieved of duty, not for burning Qur'ans, but for endangering the lives of his own people. He made a show of this and it invited a belligerent response. Now, we have two officers dead and several more wounded. If you're going to burn Qur'ans, do it in your living room fireplace and don't make it a public statement.
Christopher Hitchens said it best, "Religion poisons everything."
Faith based religious belief (belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence) is inherently dishonest, inherently divisive and inherently delusional.
Those who, upon entering their houses of worship, leave their brains at the church house door eventually cripple their critical thinking skills. The Republican ranks are willed with them. They and the Republican leadership are turning America into an Idiotocracy. Just check this column for proof of that claim.
The worst offenders, the Religious Right, want to cripple science, which is absolutely vital to our health, wealth and our National Security and they want to turn our democratic republic into a Theocracy, so Christians can rule over non-Christians and they can recreate the worst excesses of intolerance, bigotry and hatred recorded in World History. Unfortunately, being anti-reason, anti-intellectual and incurious, they’ve never read World History.
^^^true story.
Idiotic article.
another applogist blaming the USA for the reactions of insane, religious fanatics. please, go live in Iran.
A few years back a neighbor kindly gave me a small collection of books she no longer wanted. I was mortified to discover a Bible in the stack that had once belonged to a little girl in another state who had penned some of her first thoughts about life and religion in it. Mortified because I am not religious. Yet while I didn't want the book in my house because of that I wasn't about to just throw in the trash something so important to so many people and the little girl that once owned it. I kept it for six months asking every visitor to my home who was religious if they wanted it until one finally said yes. While I don't respect what's in the Bible I respect that many people do. It's about your own dignity when you treat others with respect.
your pulitzer for short stories is in the mail
Well you are a gentleman and an empathetic person, which apparently a lot of people here cannot begin to comprehend. You were able to see the intrinsic value of a human being behind the material pieces of paper and act in a respectful way to a person you didn't even know. Why some people develop values like that and others are boors and dolts, I don't know. But thank you on behalf of that little girl, whoever she was.
Frankly I don't care about the Korans. I care about our soldiers who are dying because somebody was stupid. If they were using Korans to pass messages they should have confiscated them and let the people of Afghanistan decide how to deal with the people that desecrated their holy book. I doubt we would be worrying about them passing messages after that.
and what should they have done....
there were at least 2 mistakes... the first is ethical as well as pragmatic.... it is not correct to burn peoples' holy books and it is stupidity not to know the reaction that this would cause... secondly, once the stupidity was done it was a another stupid move to let people know about it from a real politik sense of things. And for those who bash Obama for apologizing, he represents the american people and as such it is appropriate for him to apologize for inflammatory and ignorant things done by other government representatives.... by the way.. I am a republican.
We may not agree on everything Pat but we agree on this. I pray for the day we have more common ground.
I don't like Obama, but he did the right thing in apologizing. And the ging-rich is just an extremist-idiot. Elect him president and the USA will be even more the world's laughing-stock. Outrage? Yes outrage at the ging-rich. Burning Qurans is offensive. Burning Bibles is offensive. No difference. Any scriptures that are sacred to some culture should be respected. That said, there is still no excuse for killing anyone over this. One crime should not lead to another.
Articles like this from CNN just represent how free a society we live in but how directed our Mass Media is. It really is disgusting and shameful.
They can desecrate anything to do with our country and we can not express our opinion? They behead troops and civilians. Burned our flag and will do it again. BURN EM ALLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!
Amen!
Something has to be actually sacred before it can be desecrated. Flags aren't sacred.
They just just do what Arizona Officials do. Just bury them, so students don't learn about their past! The term they used in ban Mexican/American studies classes. Perhaps our military can learn from Arizona how to get rid of book! LOL
Another liberal terrorist who hates our troops...well stupid lady...I'll tell you again and you know why...the books were written on pages by your lovely prisoners we had taken and the moslems believe that the filthy book is suppose to be sacred an not written on...so they were destroyed forthat reason...of course you failed to mention that...again. Also if they were not destroyed then the moslems would still blame the Americans that they were written on...no matter the Americans would be blamed for one thing or another...All moslems like to fight about something or another...it is in their pea sized heads to do it...so I say keep sending the filthy beggars to allah and keep burning the books...they make great fires to roast over an open fire by the way...I do it all the time and the book is great toilet paper also...
Wow, represent for the right there nolibs.
nolibs, you are a vile, vile creature.
President Obama should have ordered that a drown be dropped on those Korans. The left doens't seem to have a problem with his use of drones to kill civilians.
Oh yeah, it's Bush's fault. Can't forget to add that to the mix.
Drop a DROWN?
Spelling is apparently optional in rants.
True, very true.
They just just do what Arizona Officials do. Just bury them, so students don't learn about their past! The term they used in ban Mexican/American studies classes. Perhaps our military can learn from Arizona how to get rid of books more effectively!
We do not need to make an apology for burning trash. If we bow the the insane reactions of uneducated people we stoop to their level.
You idiot! Why are you worrying about burned books when 4 people are dead? Lets see..... human life over a stupid book....which is more important. Go back to your stupid college safe life and quit giving us your dumb liberal opinions.
I guess if they want to burn a KJV of our word it's alright huh? If they want to drag our soldiers down the street for display it's alright huh? Everything is alright for them to do, but you let one American show his/her hate for those animals and we have to bow down and apologize? Not me brother! Not now, not ever! Let's get out of their country and let them rot! The next time they so much as scratch one of our American citizens we can just level their @ss and be done with them. End of story.
It is going to snow here tonight so I think I will go out and try to find some for kindling.....
Where have I seen this movie? ooohh that's right Germany Nazi!
BINGO!!!
I wonder how the great generation made it through worse times without burning books or torturing people.
With honor, now I remember.
sometimes 'A BOOK IS JUST A BOOK' , get over it Afghanies and get educated. you are the most backwards people in the world. at least try the 21st century is not so bad....
Their book is even written backwards!
actually, I believe that their form of writing predates ours. So, technically, we write backwards.
It seems like the easiest thing to do in the future would be to hand questionable books over to the Afghan government and let them handle the situation. I think it was courageous of our President to apologize. An honorable person admits when something is wrong. People who are full of bluster like Newt Gingrich, just keep blustering along.
They burn the American flag in front of us, we burn coded message stored in the Korans.Sound like an trade.
Only to people that would stoop as low as the terrorists. The USA is supposed to lead by being above the goons.
They should burn the Koran because it is a hateful book. I also think that Harry Potter and the Twilight books should be banned for teaching our kids satanic values. The only true book that should be read is the bible! I've noticed that the more literate the US has gotten the more it has strayed from the righteous path. I pray for all the sinners out there reading their 17 magazines and Cosmos, both of those publications advocate abortion!
Santorum is counting on your vote. Stay barefoot pregnant and stupid. In fact you should stop reading this worldly publication that has printed pro abortion stances.
Santorum has the guts to point out what is wrong with this country and he is willing to wage war on Hell itself!
AND they should burn those Satanic girls at the mall that your husband oggles. And Witches!!! BURN THE WITCHES!!! LOL I get a kick out of just how backward some of you hillbillies really are....
My husband is a god warrior and would never oogle such distasteful "ladies"
I'll pray for both of your souls and be sad that I'll be at the right side of Jesus while y'all are burning in hell!
Jodie must not read the "judge not" part very much.
The author's point is quite simple: book-burning is rarely a good idea.
Did these Quran's have coded messages scribbled in the margins, or were they simply Qurans?
By simply regarding books as books, and not carelessly destroying knowledge, this thing could have been avoided..
Obviously, civilized people are dismayed by the random, wanton attacks on Westerners by religious extremists. All the more reason that Aghanistan needs more books.
It doesn't really matter whether the books were compromised or not. The enemy leaders aren't going to tell those they seek to influence that they were compromised books, they'll just show them the evidence that we burned their holy books. You can't buy that kind of publicity... talk about playing right into the enemies propaganda spreading hands.
We should replace these books with copies of Sara Palin book (going rogue), and they will kill themselves! No need to have them in jail anymore.
Much as Moslems honor the Koran, I think the riots are less to do with the burnings and more to do with another opportunity to tell us how much they hate us and all things foreign.We need to understand that we live in the 21st century and they live in the 8th century as far as thought forms are concerned.
I agree. Consider, for a moment, if Bagram was in Cinncinati, and Afghan occupied the US.
What would be the reaction here?
Your moral relativism is amazing. The difference is, we are a free country, so occupation of the US would be tyranny. Occupying a country filled with murderous fanatics is not a bad thing. The fact that you dangerous moral relativists equate those two things just shows how dangerous and anti-freedom you are.
Yikes, this is one of the loosest written essay's I've ever scene.
Set aside your political affiliation and Obama-hating for just a moment, my right wing neighbors. I'm not saying it was wrong to see that the compromised books were destroyed, but it was a tactical error for US troops to burn them. Wars are won and lost with propaganda... we all know that propaganda is what feeds the hatred for Americans in that region. Their political and religeous leaders (often one and the same group of people) pounce on situations like this to further influence the Muslim people against what we say we stand for. If we are trying to positively influence the people in the region, why would shoot ourselves in the foot by burning the book that their culture is based around? Couldn't they have simply locked the books up until we leave? Why give the enemy leaders physical "proof" that we "infidels hate the Muslim people?" Lastly, I ask all of you to stop hating all Muslims because of what some of them have done to us. The actions by that group and its supporters on 9/11 is unforgivable, but we don't hate everyone in Montana because of the actions of the Unibomber. (Ok, you can go back to blindly hating Obama. Thanks for reading...)
People, don't forget we are occupiers of somebody else's country. If you are unwelcomed, it is pure stupidity to do anything to would add to the hate. And please people, I'm sure if we had occupiers here in the USA, we may act friendly to them for survival, but I'm sure any of us would jump at the first excuse to kill them.
You're not kidding anyone pal, so it' OK for them to kill Americans, you have a convenient excuse for that, but you dont' give us any slack on burning a book. Amazing how naive and anti-American you far left liberal sellout backstabbers are. You make excuses for people who murder innocent people and excoriate somebody burning a book filled with hate. Very dangerous, you liberals are.
Yes, and people shouldn't burn American flags either, but the left defends that, saying "it's our 1st Amendment right". Again we have amazingly naive moral relativism here, with outrage by a far leftist about book burning, but no outrage over Americans being killed by Muslims. And this is one of those far leftists who supported removing the Bible from a child who brings one to school. Yep, always supporting radicals rights, and not Americans rights, that's the brain damaged liberal for ya. A President apologizing to people who are killing our soldiers. Amazingly stupid.
It's not a matter of right or wrong, Jethro. It's a matter of whats smart. If some hippie burns our flag in Berkeley, CA, the San Francisco bay area doesn't erupt in a mass of killings and mayhem. Burn our flag in Birmingham, Alabama, there are probably going to be some hippies going home missing some teeth. Burn the Quran in pretty much any Muslim country, and the crazies are going to go ape-s**t. Why stir the pot when we don't have to?
Agreed.
We should not burn books AND Jihadists should not kill Americans- So what is your point lady?
I don't care who you are. You don't justify killing innocent people with the burning of a stupid book. Muslims are a bunch of extreme hypocrites. They are murderers, nothing else.
Those books should not have been burned period. American lives are too precious to be wasted on the ignorance of other Americans who operate out of hate and bigotry. If nothing else has been learned from the internal loss of life and bloodshed in this country, that should have been learned. Dr. Martin Luther King is just one loss that should have taught us that. The two Officers killed because of these burnings were there hoping to bring the hearts and minds of these people to a place where we never have to fear another 9/11 from them or others who think as they. Burning some books put all of that in jeopardy and threaten to put all other American lives lost there, in vain.
When those religious books have already been "defiled" by the people who formerly possessed them, there is no reason for outrage toward the US.
When the books in question had codes and coded messages written in the margins they ceased being "religious artifacts". That is the point at which they became defiled. That is also the point at which time burning them, shredding them or destroying them through any other means became not only "acceptable" but prudent.
If you don't want your religious relics destroyed, stop using them to wage war.
I find it interesting that you didn't mention any of these issues in your OP Ed piece. Nothing like leaving key bits of the story out. Is it ignorance of the situation or a lack of willingness to actually tell the whole story?
Tell that to the families of the two dead Officers. I'll bet your opinion and view on things would be very comforting to them.
Well said.
Typical far left liberal moral equivalency. Because somebody burned some books, it's OK for them to kill people. Absurd, just like the rest of liberal policies.
Ed is right, the book was already defiled by their own. Fact is, the islamic culture is at ther ignorant prime today just as christians in the crusade and witch burning. Stop trying to defend them, you people are just making yourselves sound stupid.
It's sad that people would defend these muslim heathens. I hope y'all enjoy burning in Hell with them and mohammed.
I defend our President making the smart diplomatic move. If I end up in this firey afterlife that it seems that you wish on all "non-god fearin' Mericans", at least I'll have the company of a bunch of baby-raping Catholic Priests to ridicule while I'm simmering.
I ask you, how are YOU any different from those "heathens"? You wish the worst fate imaginable on those on the other side of the religeous fence... just like they do. Your belief system, driven into you by your religeous leaders, is what fuels this hatred... just like theirs. Have a nice little spite-filled life, hypocrite.
I pray for your soul. The fact that you would gladly burn in the fires of hell rather than accept God into your life is telling. You are probably the same kind of man who sleeps with other men or who tempts your woman into having abortion after abortion.
THERE IS NO HELL EXCEPT THAT THAT IS CREATED HERE. BURNING THOSE BOOKS HAS CREATED SUFFICIENT HELL FOR EVERYONE THERE TO BURN IN. SO PART OF YOUR WISH HAS ALREADY BEEN GRANTED. HOPEFULLY NONE OF YOUR FAMILY IS THERE.
I know in my heart of hearts all my family is floating around with the angels above.
I agree with the President's apology. Here's the thing: the Islamic people there don't think like we think. They will take any slight to their culture, religion, etc., imagined or otherwise, and react. They don't fear death as we do. Any type of provocation can result in violence, which puts our troops in danger. Doesn't matter if we don't think they should be there; they are. Anything that can escalate harm to them should be seriously considered.
I don't agree with how the Afghans are reacting, but that is their culture. We react similarly to certain things (Occupy movement, etc.). Finally, when we start believing that burning books is a way to punish or eliminate a threat, we move closer to a scenario like Fahrenheit 451. Simple solution, take the suspected Korans from the prisoners and turn them over to the local authorities, and supply them with unmarked copies. No harm done to the books, no reason to react.
For people supporting the burning- was it worth the people now killed and injured because of it? Justify all you want, but now people are dying because of this choice. Does it sound like it was a well thought out idea? Maybe we should think before we act for a change. It's partially this kind of thinking that makes us a target for extremists in the first place.
"We had to burn them because of coded messages in the margins" WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!? When was the last time coded messages were in US hands that the enemy came back and recaptured them? We could have disposed of them in so many different locations and so many different ways. Speaking as a prior military officer, this was a dumb move on our end.
How about Muslims shouldn't be killing people in the name of allah?
Obviously this isn't acceptable. I don't think there is anybody commenting here that sides with what the reaction was by the Muslim people ( I know I sure don't). I'm just saying it was dumb as hell to throw gasoline on that particular fire. Religeon has been the basis for controlling the minds of the masses for centuries, and has been the preferred means of enciting the masses to war since some charlatan came up with the concept at the dawn of civilization. They do it for Allah, we do it for our most powerful diety.... money.
By the way, what do you ride? (Street Bob, here...)
Yes – burning the Muslim holy book was stupid. No question. But the response is way out of proportion. You don't hurt *people* because of what was done to some dead trees!
WE don't... THEY do. That's the point.
The Afghan response is just part of a broader effort by Muslims to intimidate Americans into not expressing our first amendment rights to free speech. A westerner publishes a picture of Big Mo in their OWN country and have to check under their car before they start it for fear of some ignorant Jawa seeking revenge. I'm not sure if the burning of the Quran qualifies as free speech in this case since they're claiming they had a darn good reason to burn it, but even if it wasn't, burning a book, ANY book, is protected speech. Unfortunately, that's not the case in Afghanistan, so they obvi screwed up in doing it in from of Muslims. Still, the reaction from the Afghans just shows how completely idiotic, ignorant, medieval, barbaric, and infantile Afghans really are. Hell, most Muslims for that matter. It might not be PC to say it, but the vast majority of Muslim states are similarly medieval. They've never heard of the marketplace of ideas, they're ignorant and have sand for brains.
God Bless America, who wants to have a Quran burning party here in the states?
What sad, sick, sick people
Jesus said: on the outside they are like the white washed tombs – nice looking – but on the inside their hearts of full of filth and hate.
This is what islam breeds: hate and filth.
Jesus said do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Would you kill yourself over a burnt piece of paper. It isn't culture – stop the excuses for their wickedness and evil.
We should not have burned the books. They should have been turned over to the Islamic churches/intelligence and media (al-jezerra) as EVIDENCE of radicule Islamists Defacing/Insulting the Koran as these books were used to pass intelligence information within the compound. All Mula's should then condem this defacing and thank the US for bringing it to their attention.
Probably on of the most ignorant and uninformed opinion articles I have read. Only outdone by the comments, such original and free thinking minds referring to the nazis...for the thousandth time, how insightful. I'd say the only problem with you entire line of thinking is that there is such a thing as the real world and I am sure it's a long way from your crappy office at Middlebury College.
Have you ever traveled to Bagram, or any place like it? I am sure like any large instillation like that generates a lot of trash, which includes worn beyond repair books, outdated magazines, and multiple copies of the same crappy book that people get in a care package. So your saying we should take all of those books...many probably written in english, and spend time and effort getting them into the Afghan community...where only small percentages read their native language, never-mind english...I say go for it, but I don't think that is time or money well spent. Someone will have to be hired or assigned to do that job. Transporting them back to the U.S. is another option, but that would probably cost more than it does to purchase a new edition of each.
Well what about materials from the detainment facility written in the local language. We can take the books from the detainment facility and spend hours pouring over them to make sure they are free of coded messages and then release those to the public...hopefully catching everything. If we happen to miss one though, I'm SURE whoever they want to get a message to wouldn't be in the community, retrieving those coded books and magazines. Yet again, a lot of time and money well spent (that is sarcasm in case you missed it).
Finally the books or materials that ARE coded...what to do with them? Send them back to the CIA for examples...okay sounds good, but after how many examples do you say,"okay, we have enough" we're not getting any intelligence value from these. Well now you have a coded "holy book," what do you propose we do with that?! Spend more countless hours and money on having someone with a damned sharpie blanking out the messages?! When people demonstrated and killed because we are desecrating their holy book by marking in it, I am sure you would apologize to them too.
So any of these options involves more man hours and more money. The funny thing is that you're probably for cutting military spending too...there is a reason why we have the phrase, "those who can't do, teach." I think your "have your cake and eat it too" mentality demonstrates that.
Should we burn books in the sense that we are trying to eliminate knowledge and control thought, hell no! Are there logistical and logical reasons to dispose of books, hell yes there is. Does this harken back to the Nazis and their pursuit to control knowledge...only if you like wearing tinfoil hats.
We do need to be sensitive to the needs and thoughts of Afghanistan. We do need to understand the people and do what we can to help them prosper and to earn their trust. What we don't need to do is become apologists for everything that goes wrong and validate the extreme culture that feels that it is okay to murder because a book was burned. Which is exactly what you are doing. I get the feeling that you are surrounded by comforting and supportive voices at the college who parrot your opinion back to you, but try to actually expand your mind and look beyond your little box for once. The students of Middlebury College deserve better that shallow uninformed diatribes.
@NoKidding...I was a medic stationed at one of the largest detainment facilities in Iraq. I have seen firsthand the writing and coding that detainees use in order to send messages back and forth via the pages of the Korans used in the holding area of the FOB hospital. It can become detailed. MI (military intelligence) agents would come and peruse the Korans with the aid of actual Muslims, so as not to mishandle the, would have interpretors aid in discerning the meanings of the codes, and upon completion of these duties, the Muslims, with supervision from our military members, would burn the Korans in a ceremony which was respectful of the Islamic custom. Some of you should exercise your "google-fu" to see just what is authorized for disposal of the Koran. Also, our junior enlisted are not stupid like some of you would think. But when UCMJ is beaten over your head as a threat to get something done, and you don't want to lose what little of a career you already have, you do what you're told. A true shame that the same functions could not have been carried out as they were when I was in Iraq. We had a great group of people to work with, and we respected the Islamic belief system. We took the high ground, it's what the majority of American soldiers do!
Harley... true, BUT they do, so knowing that FACT, was it smart to endanger American lives to burn books that didn't need to be burned? Yes- snakes shouldn't bite you for simply walking past them, but going barefoot and circling them for hours is still a bad move.
Dobie- the response should have been taken into consideration. What, honestly, did we think would happen?
Another perfectly good thread ruined by trolls. Oh well.
Ms. Stanger do you tell that to the Saudi's when they burn the BIBLE!!!??? No, obviously not.
Do you realize Ms. Stanger it doesn't matter what the US does, albeit burning a Koran, a draw Mohammad cartoon day, a Mohammad bear on South Park, and whatever else, it does not matter what the West does, Muslims will protest anything. If the West does it, they will riot like no tomorrow. It does NOT MATTER. Islam and the West are NOT compatible and never will be.
I think we should make a minimum college education to join the military. That will make the soldiers more aware of what is going on. They also won't join up and learn some trade and not join the army because they need to support themselves. But, the GOP wants an ignorant mass to vote for them. Don't they have common sense to know that if they burn Quoran, there will be consequences?
WHAT??? Makes no sense and your an idiot!!!!
Expanding on my previous point, if the US was under Afghan occupation, and an Afghani base known for torturing people had been caught burning bibles–for whatever reason–none of us–not even reasonable people–would like that. But the religious right–our slightly less virulent version of the Taliban–would go bonkers.
One need only look at the insanity that occurred after the horrific 911 attacks. Stupid people attacked random brown folks, while our government incarcerated random brown folks.
The criminals who attacked and killed US and UN personnel, need to be prosecuted as murderers, which is exactly what they are. Those who clamor for murder need to be educated.
These are not sane every day people we deal with in Afganistan, and we cannot conclude they will act the way we in America act in such situations. They are living in the mindset of the 500s BCE, and very much practice a way of life associated with that day in age. Today they use modern weapons, and explosives, but the mindset of these people are the same. We will never be able to control the middle east because itself has never been at peace for long. We expect them to embrace democracy, but we cannot see how they are compeled to believe in a one party system. Forgo humanity, because unfortunately, religion breads a dogmatic culture that cannot change. We can offer a refugee program to allow those who want to escape a way out of their nation, but we must let the nation fall where it may. Belief is unfortunately stronger then desire, and stronger then weaponization, and thus will always stand as the battle lines of different groups and organizations, and governments.
Well put.
Its pretty clear that the C/O that gave the order to burn the Quran's, is on a mission to get Obama out of office. Whether he's a Bush Texan or a supporter of Rick Sanitarium, he's actions endangered ALL American troops throughout the Middle-East and should be court-martialed.
Every day the military burns Bibles, Christian symbols, or any other "Christian" reading matter that are mailed to or found in the possession of Christian military personnel in Arab countries. How many deaths or injuries have been reported from these actions. Oh, right... none. But burn a trashed Koran used by terrorists to send coded messages about jihad and you deserve to die. Wake up, America! This is ridiculous and yet all these people are writing in comments justifying the killing of innocent men and women because a book desecrated and scribbled in by the Islamists ended up by mistake on a trash heap?
There is no legal or moral justification for killing people because a book was thrown away.
Wow, you just don't get it. NOBODY is justifying killing Americans for burning the books. THE POINT IS THAT WE NEED TO USE OUR HEADS! If I were to burn a Bible in Omaha, Nebraska, I might get my ass kicked... and I'd expect to. If I to burn a Quran in Afghanistan, I'd probably get beaten to death, dismembered, and burned... and I'd expect to. You don't roll into drug cartel controlled sections of Tijuana with a T-Shirt saying "I hate you dirty Mexicans" and live... and you probably shouldn't.
She asserts that a country in dire need of books should not burn them...what? That is only one book, the one book they cling to over lets say educating their women – in this country we have the right to burn what ever we like...its called Freedom, they are making people kowtow to their religious zealotry...they are living in the Bronze age, the are holding people who do not agree with their religious dogma hostage because of a book that was already scrawled in, if we burn a book they will kill people? Um...which is worse burning a book or killing people? That is the bottom line...and if they cant comprehend the difference at this point in history they are seriously living in some alternate reality but want the rest of us to respect them...daft!
Let's be careful about the royal "they." I have no doubt there are sane, intelligent Afghans who are watching this play out in horror –buty they speak out in peril of their lives.
I agree that the living conditions and culture in Afghanistan are infused with this mindless extremism, but even people who think they support the Taliban object to the nastier aspects: the intimidation, the beheading, etc.
How do we encourage an Arab Spring in Afghanistan? I wish I knew the answer.
Don't we have a long tradition, in some circles – mostly socially and religiously conservative – of burning, or banning books, or even records?
This article is proof that alleged academicians should definitely stay in their ivy towers and pontificate among themselves. What does this person know about war? There are no rules in war. An American general in Afghanistan was relieved of duty two years ago for allegedly bad-mouthing our President. That will cost you your job. However, it apparently is perfectly okay to apologize to the ENEMY, who so far has killed 1771 Americans, including roughly 9 in the past three days, because they got their feelings hurt. The total lack of common sense and absolute total absence and failure of leadership in the White House is appalling, and disgusting. I am ashamed to call him President. It is an outrage. I attended the arrival of Seaman Estrada back home to his wife of one year and family, Friday in Mesa. I am pretty sure no one was in the mood to apologize. We don't have to like the war, or the President. But I'll be damned if this isn't an impeachable offense. Apologizing to the enemy ! Bowing to foreign leaders ! Telling us in a speech last week we should settle for being average. Please, do your own research and do not have a short memory come November. This is horrible.
Right on!!!!
Actually, neighbor, there are rules in war. That's why we haven't turned the entire area into glass. Oh, and the most important rule in this particular war..."Unless you intend to wipe out everyone that stands against you, you had better make some diplomatic relations with the wack-balls that control the area if you want the oil to fuel your pick-ups". Even your boy Reagan knew that rule.
The Russians got bogged down in Afgh. in the 80s. It led to the collapse of the communist system, which would have fallen eventually anyway. We have no goal in Afgh., we have no reason to be there. It damn sure isn't about oil. We have a weak-kneed socialist in the WH who is afraid to pull out our troops now. The Afgh. president has railed against us, and he's on our side, or is supposed to be. The Middle East has been full of camel-riding rag heads for thousands of years. Modern technology and progress have long since passed by the residents of these countries. If they want to worship and live in whatever style they choose, let them. I could care less about Saudi women's rights, etc. All OBL wanted was the Americans out of Saudi. It has evolved into this international terrorist conflict with no end in sight. We need to pull out completely from the M.E. Sit back, and let them kill off THEIR next generation of youth, not ours. How they choose to live their lives is entirely up to them. If you think it is about oil, think about this. The Baaken Oil Field in North Dakota has 4 BILLION barrels of oil. We do not need to be dependent upon M.E. oil. Your President stopped construction of an oil pipeline through the heart of America, yet sent American carriers to the Gulf to keep the passageway open. This is the kind of mindset you want to re-elect come Nov? A man who apologizes to the enemy and bows to foreign leaders and blocks domestic oil development, and last week delivered a speech telling us we should be satisfied with "average"? The coffee is on.
Oh, and by the way, Jethro, we aren't at war with Afghanistan. Nor is it's President our declared enemy. Now if Obama had sent out an apology to Osama Bin-Laden for smoking his bases, I'd side with you. As it is... yeah, not so much on this one.
The Afghans have the same respect for our occupation as they did the Russians. I have seen this movie before and it does not have a happy ending. Needed to get out of this as soon as Bin Laden was dead. That very instant.
I was under the impression the incident was UNINTENTIONAL am i missing something?
"It is an act that could just as well be classified in the same category as the four Marines who were videotaped urinating on dead Taliban fighters."
These particular books supposedly contained scribbled notes which acted as a communication conduit; apparently this is what prompted the burning. The only mistake our people made was in how these books were destroyed, not that they were destroyed. There are proper ways to dispose of damaged Qurans, and the scribbled communications qualify as "damage" – these were not Sunday school notes in the margins; the notes themselves desecrated the books.
This was not urinating on dead bodies, this was simply a case of not following proper protocol. Your remarks are way off base and do nothing except fan the fires of hate.
Scribbed notes? Really? where did you hear that (besides my comment upthread)?
Keith, those Qurans weren't "garbage". Your mother was garbage, out of which filth like you came out.
Any all excuses would be fine for muslims to kill Amerians. Get our people out and forget them. And leave the money given them to our own country. muslim countries cannot and will not ever be our friends. They can never be trusted.
What the author doesn't know is that EVERYTHING gets burned in Afghanistan, EVERYTHING. Fires burn 24/7. That is how trash gets removed. Should they of put the books in the garbage can or recycling bin and waited for their designated time of the week for it to get collected? They don't have landfills! There do not have trash collectors! This 'author', Allison Stanger, doesn't know how things work in Afghanistan and had NO BUSINESS writing an article about Afghanistan. Shame on CNN for posting her dribble. The books should of been turned over to the ISAF and the hand written content examined for meaning. Only after that should the Afghans of been asked how to PROPERLY dispose of their sacred material that was desecrated by their own people. They were plotting something, shouldn't that of been researched? Unlike the author, I have a husband there right now, I know whats what. Sorry to of ranted, I 'm doing my best to be ok while my husband, my best friend, is trying to survive in a country that doesn't want him there.
Thank you & your husband for your sacrifice and I hope he returns home soon and safely.
And I hope he returns safely ma'am.
God Bless
Good comments. Too many people who have no idea what they are talking about.
What I'm wondering is how, anybody found out about anything anyway? Who was the blabbermouth who let this military info get out in the 1st place? In WWII there was a saying (according to my grandfather) – "Loose lips sink ships!" Whomever dropped the ball on this one dropped a nest full of angry hornets and now our troops are paying dearly for it.
If we had burned the prisoner and not the books this issue would be over.
This woman has OBVIOUSLY never been to Afghanistan,....
EVERYTHING is burned
They burn trash. The argument–and it's a simple one–that in a country that suffers from crippling illiteracy, books should rarely be considered trash.
And I agree.
Sometimes they also burn books for ideological reasons. Americans should never be doing that.
Agree that we should burn religious books. BUT, at least we're not murderers.
Time to grow up Islam.
GLWT
they're an uber emotionally driven cult. Will never happen.
Well, Great, we have a Muslim president doing everything he can to bend over and kiss their (expletive deleted!)!
Wake up America! This guy isn't pro America, He's pro MUSLIM. He's already declared the US isn't a Christian country (clearly doesn't know his history) and is doing everything he can to keep us dependent on the muslim world!
I say we need to punt him and keep burning those muslim comic books !!!
You're an idiot.
nope, just looking at the evidence... You're just a blind sycophant muslim sympathizer...go back to the dessert!
I agree, go back to the dessert.
Strawberry shortcake sounds nice. Mmmm. .. .shortcake. . . .
So tell me WHY you think he's a Muslim? And even if he was, which he is not, why his religious flavor has anything to do with it? Isn't this America where we have freedom of speech & religion? Our country was filled with people trying to escape religious persecution. Why again does your comment sound sooo stoopid & full of political rhetoric? Oh yeah, you're one of THOSE people.
Oh, and the US isn't an entirely Christian country. What the fux wrong with you? You sound so bigoted and icky, lol.
I am an Indonesian Chinese. We were attacked and humiliated by Muslim extremist in Indonesia in 1998 during the riot. It NEVER crossed my mind to burn the Quran. Simply because it is a VERY STUPID thing to do. It will never solve any problem and simply give those extremists excuse to start attacking again. Innocent people can be hurt.
Ah, how refreshing. An informed, reasonable voice with experience. Well said.
You sound like a little scared sheep.They got you right where they want you.
Thankfully our stay on this miserable planet is short.
It's the insane asylum of the universe and everyone's escaped thier straight jackets.
Anyone ever read Fahrenheit 451?? Anyone? I tend to be of the opinion that no book of ANY KIND should be burned or destroyed. It's human work and is a journal of our experience on this planet. No person, government, or religion has a right to destroy that. You don't have to like the ideas in every book, but you have to tolerate them for being what they are...ideas.
Why no reference to the Bible burning by the US military in Afghanistan? I would have found the two very much related. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2009/05/bibles-destroye/
For once, David Brody was correct.
Burning books may become an expedient necessity in a war zone, but it's never a good idea.
oh well.
ahhhh, holy wars.
great book to get the fireplace going.
I am a Muslim and I know for sure that the proper way of disposing old copies of the Quran is burning, not to mention copies that are used as " note books". I don't see it as offensive , but there are people who were waiting for this to recruit more "extremists".
If these books had already been marked to pass along messages, then it is those who marked them that should be held accountable as they purposely desicrated the books. Perhaps the US was cleansing the books by burning them?
The problem was Obama stuck his nose into it yet again apologizing for the US when he wants to the Catholic Church's insurance to pay for contracetion when they don't believe in it. You can't have it both ways its hypocritical.
I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle
East, start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere belief
of which, is a crime punishable by beheading in Afghanistan .
Of course it was stupid to burn the Qurans – it should have been no surprise that it would inflame the illiterate muslim masses.
What is really sad here is that in spite of this stupid blunder being performed on Obama’s watch, the lapdog media is giving him credit for his wisdom – he apologized.
Had this happened on George Bush’ watch the lapdog media would have been all over him, and no matter how many apologies he would have issued, the lapdog media would have used this to illustrate everything that is wrong with Bush, the GOP, conservatives etc. etc.
It is a really sad state of affairs.
The author of the article is mistaken. Burning *is* one of the acceptable ways of disposing of the Quran. It's apparently not very popular, but it's acceptable.
Burning these messages of God was a message in itself: Bush was lying when he said the war on Islam was only a war on terrorism. The US is out to destroy Islam. Just look at the comments on this article.
Gee whiz,do you think the violent response we always get when Muslims are offended is what hurts Islam? What image do you think the violence gives of Islam?
Why didn't they shred the books instead of burning. Don't they have shredders in Afghanistan?
The second I heard about the burning of Qurans I knew the Muslim response would be violence followed by more violence.Some things never change.But then the liberals refuse to write any articles on that.
I would acknowledge the Muslim's outrage, IF they demonstrated the same level of outrage when men, women and children are tortured/maimed/killed in the name of antiquated Sharia law. Until then, their "outrage" is nothing more than shallow posturing.
True, the US shouldnt be burning books. They should be burning Arab Extremist that provide nothing to humanity.
Burning is also the ceremonial method for disposing of old flags.
Sometimes the medium is the message.
I suspect the REAL issue is the decade-long presence of troops in Afghanistan, "infidels" or not.
Question. If we didn't know we were burning Qurans, how did the Afghanis know we were?
The terrorists that were being held in this prison, were using their "holy" book to send messages to each other in order to perform other acts of terrorism. I put quotes around holy because I don't know how these people can consider the Quran holy if they are using it as a means of sending messages to aid in terrorism. These are the same groups of people that say water boarding is torture, but hailed the Libyan uprising that tortured Kadaffy Duck with a knife up his rectum. They behead our journalists with dull swords and we have to apologize for burning some books. The strap bombs to themselves blowing up innocent people and we have to apologize for urinating on dead bodies. Then our own journalists call what we do "atrocities", yet don't seem to care about the U.S. soldiers killed over a few books. Do you think that the Afghan people have ever burned the Bible or Torah? Do you think their government apologizes to the world every time that happens?
It's time for this backward region and its backward religion to grow up!!!!! Now just imagine Pakistan with its NUKES and what hat may come to one day and the nightmare of Iran with Nukes and they may just have their 13th IMAM crawling out of some well????
Burning Books is so 20th Century, if you REALLY want to desecrate and destroy REALLY large numbers of a book, all you need is a computer and a PDF of the material in question.
We don't owe the ARABS, much less Taliban vermin an apology for ANYTHING.
On this, Newt is right.
BillyBob,
Afghans aren't Arabs! Time for you to open up your 5th grade geography book again!
I've decided that I'm going to buy a pig and a Koran and every day, post a video of me wiping my pig's ass with a page of it and post it on YouTube. Maybe by the time I'm finished, Muslims around the world will learn that Americans have freedoms and we're not obligated to honor their Dark Ages voodoo.
It depends. If the burning was done as a symbolic expression of contempt, then it's wrong. If it was done as a procedural matter, then there is nothing wrong. People dispose of things all the time. Doesn't matter if it's burning or running through a shredder. People need to be able distinguish between the message and the medium. The medium is simply paper and ink. To kill others over paper and ink is dangerously simple minded.
Religious People:
Leave the rest of us out of your stupid wars over whose imaginary friend is the greatest.
It was silly to burn those books knowing how crazy those fanatics are over there. We need to come home and leave them to themselves.
Opinion: We shouldn't be there. We should have pulled our Troops from there when Bush went to raise oil prices by invadig Iraq.
Where's the article on "it's wrong to KILL PEOPLE as a response to burning some books"? Where's the FAR MORE appropriate apology from Karzai to the U.S. "gee I guess my peeps overreacted just a tad...I do agree it's wrong to KILL PEOPLE in response to burning some books". ARE YOU KIDDING ME??????
Apologists like Obama don't actually want anyone to apologize to them for any affront to us or our troops...don't expect the President to point out this little bit of common sense to anyone.
I realize that my comment most likely will never be read but why ,exactly, are we furnishing a library to prisoners who can't read?
Anyway, this entire situation is Obama's fault. He ordered our troops there...he's keeping them there...and he's ultimately responsible for everything our soldiers do in our name.
Obama gets a Nobel Peace Prize for what he "might" do to help world peace and this is how it turns out?
He's in way over his head....
The apology is an outrage. Here's a fairly crappy analogy that may help those who feel otherwise see why. Suppose you are a Muslim living in the states and you unintentionally burn some bibles. Your "Christian" neighbors find out and retaliate by murdering your entire family. Should you apologize to your neighbors? Should our president apologize to them? No one should apologize because you are making books more important than people. The murderous neighbors should be imprisoned and all due respect and mourning should be given to those lives lost. Fortunately this wouldn't happen because to Christians, only God's word is sacred. The ink and paper used to express it are just that, ink and paper. Bibles can be reprinted and replaced just as Quran's can.
There is no analogy because there is no Muslim country that is an occupying force in a Christian nation. It would be more like Iran occupying Italy and burning the Bible and other religions material from the Vatican. How well would the people of Italy take that?
Google up some beheading videos and WATCH them while you imagine it's your father, brother.... son. We should round up and execute 500 of them for every solder they kill over their stupid book. Terrorism only works when you let it.
That was like a black man burning a confederate flag in the middle of a KKK rally, what did they expect. Obama applologizing was classy and the right thing to do.
You're ratinonalizing that the men at the KKK meeting would be justified if they murdered the black man who burnt the flag...? Really? Are you THAT out of touch with reality?
I'm not sure if you have psychic powers, or simply lack basic reading comprehension.
Uh........if 43% of men can't read the books, what do they care if they're burning or not?
BD
That's 43% who can read Dari or Pashto, the main languages of Afgh-anistan. Almost NO ONE can speak Arabic, much less the classical form of Arabic in the Qur-an.
It is only a book. That anybody should die because of a book is stupid. Too many people have been killed in the name of fictional characters.
The burning of any book reminds me of the days of Hitler. We do not need this. Nor do we need a Chairman Obama.
Obama apologized to muslims who found the book-burning offensive. Some of them may be egging on this insanity.
He was trying to save lives. It did not give up any moral ground, nor he did accept the violent response.
The naturally tendency is to look for "feel-good" retaliation when someone crazy does something crazy. I certainly felt that way when Jared Loughner shot Gabby Giffords (and his own deluded comments revealed that the violent anti-Obama propaganda influenced him).
But he was, and remains, a mentally-ill young man.
Dort wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen.
Verstanden. Ich glaube nicht, dass unsere Truppen sind nun mal so – trotz der blasierten Haltung haben viele in Richtung "hajis" – aber Bücherverbrennung ist nie eine gute Sache.
If these books, religious or otherwise, were burned because their defacement by Muslims was a way to pass dangerous messages, then I have no problem with burning the books. However, every officer, and probably every enlisted man as well, had to know this was not going to sit well. So, when they decided to forego asking for input from the Afghanistan government, they should have least have been discreet about it. Whoever caused this burning to happen openly in front of Afghanistan citizens and Muslims should be held accountable for all of the violence that has occurred since.
And for those saying they are outraged at Obama's apologies, I'm sure glad you aren't running our country since you clearly have no skill in diplomacy or politics whatsoever.
Hey it is Bush's fault. That the problem though is that Bush live in the U.S. so that makes the whole country at fault. It's sad really.
When this story first broke my first comment was why didn't the military simply give those 60-70 Qurans to a local Mosque. Now we learn that they were actually taken from a library. There is nothing unintentional about that.
This can't be said too much. This "is an act that could just as well be classified in the same category as the four Marines who were videotaped urinating on dead Taliban fighters. The battle for hearts and minds is clearly in a downward spiral when American men and women in uniform are the perpetrators of such atrocities". It shows that the Generals have lost control of those that they command and that new military leadership is needed and right now so lets get started.
so sick of every news report on here and fox news having a political agenda. Report the news! They didn't go out of their way to burn these books in front of the afghans. Lets leave it at that and hope Obamas apology helps slow some of the violence. Why are we constantly feeling as though its ok for the afghans to respond to this by rioting and killing? Yah the book is sacred, and we're sorry. Its too bad the bible isnt allowed to be that sacred in the U.S
Here's a clue: the geniuses in the military didn't need to burn these books at all. Some moron "Christian" in our military thought this was a good idea: burning books. Burning books. Burning books.
Do you geniuses on the right somehow not get that this is a bad idea?
Oh, so the religious Christian right believe there is a ‘war on religion’ ?
Then why are they so clueless as to why Muslim Afghans can believe the same?
Our youth ,our soldiers are being killed. Child sacrifice was outlawed in the Bible thousands of years ago. We are now throwing our children into that cauldron of fire called Afghanistan and there they are maimed or die. Now who is the guilty party? The fire? or those that cast our youth into the cauldron the government? or the American people who sit by and do nothing. Bring back the draft so that all America's children will have a chance to be participants in this barbarous venture. America you are beneath contempt for allowing yourself to be destroyed.
Well?
Here's a better idea: how 'bout we stop sending U.S. troops to invade and occupy foreign countries?
Gee, what a novel concept.
Well I agree with your suggestion but it's against our national tradition. You could make a case we invaded another country hundreds of years ago when we displaced or exterminated the Indians. Now we're all over the place. And we think we're doing God's work. So maybe we are no better than the primitives we are fighting or helping. In any event bringing back the draft will greatly inhibit our world domination quest. We will continue to suffer grievously until this is accomplished. And that we call justice. You reap what you sow.
I agree with your concept as it regards Iraq but Afghanistan is more complicated because we were attacked by people that were guests of the government of Afghanistan. The real crime was pulling our forces back too soon and allowing bin Laden to escape from Tora Bora. Bush and Rumsfeld have to answer for that policy blunder. Most everything that has followed has been dictated by that $1 trillion blunder. We are finally winding down but in a very undignified manner that shows that the Generals have lost control of the troops that they command and heads should roll for that.
You don't find smart people in the military. You find good followers. Couple that with a pervasive "Christian") bent to many American military leaders, and you end up with this kind of right-wing fiasco.
What do you expect from a Palestine Denier like Newt Gingrich?
a politically incorrect truth which makes people feels uncomfortable because they enable terrorism by their ignorance and crowd following instincts.
There are people who will find a way to be offended no matter what is done. If it's not a book, it's a cartoon, or a search, or a look, or any of an infinite other ways to stretch the bounds of indignation or paranoia and conveniently feign offence.
The Afghans have the same respect for our occupation as they did the Russians. I have seen this movie before and it does not have a happy ending.
There's only one area of the world where, if you try to lend a hand, they'll eventually cut your hand off.
@primus – lend a hand? By occupying their country. By burning their sacred books. By urinating on their dead.
You need antipsychotics, genius.
TO RJRPUCK – Well, as they say, the exceptions prove the rule. For you to mention a few items from a decade of attempts to liberate women and others from the mind-numbing horrors they faced under Taliban rule, that proves how rare the incidents have been. On the other hand, Americans have sacrificed greatly to bring some freedom to those horribly oppressed in the country. The fact that Americans have been tortured and killed in return brings out one very clear fact: This is the ONLY area (inclusive of the middle east in general) of the entire planet where the very people who act grateful for being helped one day will put a knife in your back the moment they feel insulted.
May 20, 2008 – U.S. President George W. Bush apologized to the Iraqi Prime Minister over the shooting of the holy Quran by an American soldier (target practice). What say you GOP about this?
Looks like the best BO can do is try to copy another failed president.
The Afghans have the same respect for our occupation as they did the Russians. I have seen this movie before and it does not have a happy ending. Needed to get out of this as soon as Bin Laden was dead.
The only "BO" is from you and yours. You morons on the right got us into these stupid, cowardly, unjustifable wars....most, like you from safely behind their keyboards.
Now you want to whine because the people you worship, the military, made yet another mistake.
Why don't you and yours start trying to take responsibility for once in your lives. You can believe that the rest of us are going to hold you and yours accountable.
Ranger–
Excuse me, Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden got us into the Afghanistan war. And now you POS want to say it is unjustified and cowardly!!!! You arrogant SOB.
Nice to know in such a short amount of time you have already forgotten what happened on September 11, 2001.
it is quite easy to see just by reading these comments who will be nancy boys for the Islamic soldiers in the coming war, isn't it?
maybe they thought the reason they were in this stupid war was religion? and they were mad about it?
By definition, an atrocity is something that is "extremely or shockingly wicked, cruel, or brutal." To call burning these books or even urinating on dead bodies an atrocity is itself disgraceful and makes something that was in poor taste out to be far worse than it was. Where is the rioting in this backwards region when one of them blows up a market filled with women and children. That act and the lack of outrage against it is an atrocity.
If Americans were occupied by Afghans for 10 years and bibles / flag was burned do you think the macho Tea Party crowd would sit around and have tea?
We would demand Karsi to apologize, or his troops would be fair game.
The US flag has been burned all the time in the Middle East and Bibles ARE burned in the Middle East.
How many Christians do you know went into a riotous rage over Jesus cartoons? None.
Well, urinating on dead bodies is inhuman, and an atrocity. You're equating the human bodies with inanimate objects like books.
You're logic is as twisted as what this blog post suggests.
We do not kill people in this country for burning the "Bible. We are not like them. Maybe you are, but most of us are not. We believe in free speech even if we ardently disagree with the speaker. It's OK. I know the next generation is frightened of the coming WWIII because you will all be cannon fodder. The world leaders will do what they will do.
Don't tell republicans this. Burning books is a favorite pastime of theirs when they aren't demanding science teachers force kids to learn about creationism mythology, and other such nonsense.
Can we at least agree that there is no real endgame here–other than getting the hell out–and it might as well be now, rather than 2014?
This Obama supporter agrees. The USA needed to get out of this as soon as Bin Laden was dead.
They needed not to have gone in in the first place, as Bin Laden was hiding in, wait for it, PAKISTAN! Our 'ally'.
I don't support either major political party and I also agree. Perhaps the party liners can talk to their (non-working) illustrious leaders about it?
Yes, do it *now*.
I agree we should not burn books. I am a christian but not a praticing on however I admit I would get angry if someone burned the bible. What I would like to know is how did they find out we burning them in the first place? Something like that would require secrecy yet look where are now.
First of all, they wrote all over it which is strictly forbidden to do to the Koran. Second, they tried to hide what they didand the fact that they wrote all this incite to riot junk in the pages by putting the books in garbage bags. GARBAGE BAGS. Do you open them and search through them? Our guys didn't know what these books were, they weren't in English. Third, if you would kill somebody over burning a Bible, then yeah, you are not a practicing Christian or a very good American either. People burn Bibles all the time in rock videos, on YouTube, Satanic cults like Anton Levey burned them and filmed it, etc. He died of pulmonary embolism 2 days before Halloween in a Catholic hospital in San Francisco. Nobody murdered him.
The USA needed to get out of this as soon as Bin Laden was dead.
True. Why waste paper? A little rough maybe, but in the field it is hard to get toilet paper and you are wasting a tree.........
This is the President of the United States and I here by officially apologize for this blogger.
Gee, I'm starting to think the Afghan people might be angry about a few other things, not just the Koran burning. The predator drone strikes that kill civilians? Our support for a corrupt government that lacks popular support? Our totally inappropriate presence in a country halfway around the world?
Thats it, as soon as President Obama took out Bin laden we should have started bringing our troops home. The Afghans have the same respect for our occupation as they did the Russians. I have seen this movie before and it does not have a happy ending. Americans have yet to pay a dime for this 11 year occupation. 500 billion Chinese loan and counting.
What a nation of barbarous rednecks!
And how different are we from the book burning nazis?
At least the nazis did not burn the Koran.
umm, maybe they both had the same position on the Jewish people?
I'm rather confident that somewhere within the hundreds of libraries the Nazis emptied out and burned, there was a koran somewhere among there.
Stop using Nazis as some sort of comparison like it's relevant. Every reasonable person recognizes that its a completely inappropriate comparison, it just makes you look silly and causes everyone to ignore you.
Burning the Koran and urinating on dead Afghans are barbaric acts of desecration on par with those of NAZIS.
I I would like to hear the author better address the correctness of someone killing someone else for burning a book. Wow
USA needed to get out of this as soon as Bin Laden was dead.. The Afghans have the same respect for our occupation as they did the Russians. I have seen this movie before and it does not have a happy ending. USA needed to get out of this as soon as Bin Laden was dead.
Hey this lady is the voice of reason. Hmm... women and reason.... two things the U.S. military will always be in short supply of.
As you so aptly prove...something else the military is never short on is willfully ignorant civilians second-guessing and criticizing us, even though the vast majority of you are too lazy, selfish and weak to step up and do your part and serve.
LOL You signed your rights away as if they were a commodity. How are you "protecting" my rights again? OH YEAH. I almost forgot. YOU AREN'T.
Yeah you serve. You serve corporate interests. Read your Smedly Butler, genius.
Seems the writer should have found an answer to the question in her second paragraph...rather than leaving it open to 'speculation'...perhaps burning garbage - not books...
Her "logic" compares this to urinating on prisoners...Gimme a break....
In any event, intentional or non-intentional burning of any sacred book certainly justifies killing American Soldiers...!! The writer conveniently glosses over that 'incidental' fact...
If the books may have contained messages useful to terrrorists they had to be destroyed; the error was to do it in public. If an apology could save lives, fine, I can see it. Though not necessarily by the president of the US. But what we should be incensed about is not the failure of the Army to distribute free reading material to the half illiterate Afghan public, but the failure of Muslim religious and political leaders to convey the message that hatred is wrong and human life has value.
What a twisted thing to suggest.
The US can burn anything it wants. What the bigger issue here is that MUSLIMS should NOT KILL because their "holy books" are burned.
What is wrong with you?!?
If there is a fire, accidental, because of an error, books may get burned, people should die for that?
Its an awful thing to focus on the US rather than on a twisted, archaic, backwards and evil culture that KILLSS because a BOOK is burned.
Jesus.
Afghans believe in 'Don't tread on me' and 'Freedom is not free' America should have started withdrawing out of this occupied country as soon as Bin laden was dead. The Afghans have the same respect for our occupation as they did the Russians. I have seen this movie before and it does not have a happy ending.
If America were occupied by Afghans for 10 years and bibles / flags were burned do you think the Tea Party crowd would sit around and have tea? We too would demand Karzia too apologize, or his occupying troops in the United States would become fair game for fanatics. But American hubris fails to put the shoe on the other foot. Needed to start getting out of this as soon as Bin Laden was dead.
B S.... the little animals know they wash their hands before handling the books... and these little animals were writing messages to other inmates in them.... what's work... writing in the book or not washing ones hands ????
As Cain said, " Blame yourself." USA should have started to get out of this occupied country as soon as Bin Laden was dead.
Bin Laden was in Pakistan, not Afghanistan for most of the last 10 years.
Yeah, the author is chair of the Political Science and Liberal Department. Where was your indignation last year when it was discovered that the US Army burned bibles in Afghanistan. It apparently is a SOP and a security thing (which I fully understand). Yet you didn't feel the need to opine about that.
While I think it was a justifiable and smart move on the part of the president, I think this is more about "why did all you people complain about the president?"
Bingo!
Some people have already forgotten about the military burning bibles just a few short years ago. http://articles.cnn.com/2009-05-20/world/us.military.bibles.burned_1_bibles-al-jazeera-english-military-personnel?_s=PM:WORLD
May 20, 2008 – U.S. President George W. Bush apologized to the Iraqi Prime Minister over the shooting of the holy Quran by an American soldier (target practice).
It's sheets of paper for God's sake. Burn baby burn.
I guess everyone forgets 2 years ago under orders from our president, 150,000 bibles were confiscated from US and Coalition troop, turned over to Afghan clergy who burned them. So why is this an issue? No Americans or Brits protested it or killed anyone over it.
cuz towel heads are crazy loose cannon bible thumpers.
I think things generally will better if we always take the high road. Suppose, for example, that there is an action that will insult those who are tied to a particular religion–whether they are on our side or are against us. In such a case, then I think things will be better if we refrain from taking the action. And, if some of our representatives (including soldiers, etc.) take the action, then I think things will be better if we apologize. In this regard, it is pointless to argue that we shouldn't take a particular action or apologize for taking it simply because our opposition has taken an action that is abhorrent to us or has not apologized for it. This argument flies in the face of always taking the high road.
Sad day when our President kowtows to islamic killers and apologizes – why does he not care about the Christians and Jews being kileld and the churches destroyed by the so-called religiion of peace
I voted for him once but never will again after his bending at the knees to islamic murderers.
Voting for Obama is the last thing I want do ... except voting for a Rightiwing Religious Nutcase, aka, the Republican candidates.
It seems the left has decided to skip the details and reduce this to simply "burning books". Now the liberal press has squashed the fact that the motivation for burning the Quoran was that the prisoners were using the Quoran's as a means to pass along information coordinate riots and other subversive behavior. If the the Muslim prisoners are writing in the Quoran's for a decidedly non-religous purpose the book is defaced and therefore loses it's "holy" status. This is what Obama should have stressed, it would have shown he supports his troops and not our enemies, or perhaps he is supporting his troops, they just don't sport a US flag on their rag-tag uniform.
Obama is a weak president unable to stand up for his own troops, – for America in general and would rather throw his own under a bus than stand up for what is obviously right.
Does it make sense that the Afghans are killing each other and attacking the US troops over the burning of the Quoran's that belong to military prisoners? No it doesn't. What makes sense is that the Taliban took full advantage of this situation and Obama hasn't even figured this out yet.
We should not have burned the books, but it is our US freedom that allows the books to be burned. The world has been burning American flags for years. Cannot have it both ways.
Before the rise of right-wing extremism in this country, the mere mention of book burning would be enough to make you an outcast in this country. The term was always associated with Hitler.
The key no one is addressing is: who first desecrated these Qorans? Answer: the extremists who wrote note in them to each other about how to terrorize others. Why is there no one in Afghanistan protesting such blasphemous use of the Qoran?
While this does not excuse insensitivity, it does mean that in a war torn and wary country, these had to be destroyed, so as to prevent the furtherance of terroristic acts and coordination. It is not the entire printing of the Qoran that is destroyed, only the individual, small # of copies that had such intended war/ destructive and damaging notes.
Interrupting the flow of terrorist messages probably saved more Muslim Afghan lives than could possibly be damaged, other than taking simple offense, by leaving them intact for potential circulation.
Insensitivity? Are you joking? It's WAR, not patty-cakes with the Gay Guy next door.
Allison, when did you serve in the military? Which branch were you in? Oh you weren't? Then how would you have any idea that the armed forces have lost touch with why we started this war in the first place? Burned Koran or not, you do not take life over said "atrocity." This burns me up.
Right, we should never burn books. We should napalm Islamic adherents to H3LL.
i don't know. i am a republican and i think we should burn books. books like koran and mein kampf should be burned. also, books with abortion in it should be burned. and books for kids that have swears in it.
Let's not confuse the issue here. These *books* were nothing more than propaganda for killing, etc. Burn them. The Qurans were written on. Burning books on issue you don't like is nothing more than censorship.
Hitler burned hundreds of thousands of books. Ever read Fahrenheit 451? Another viewpoint that proves republicans espouse censorship and control of those not allowed to learn by reading.
This will be lost, will be ignored, but the truth must be published regarding this...
First, somethign that I have seen blatantly ignored in ALL media is WHY the books were burned.
The Korans were burned because of the information that was written in them. Information not for public release or to be passed from prisoner to prisoner or prisoner to local national... potentially SENSITIVE information that needed destroyed.
Second... this happened in remote Afghanistan... guess what, that means without a lot of modern day conveniences. Sometimes it is easier and/or more practical to burn things than shred them, maintain them or dispose of them in another way. The act of burning outdated but still sensitive information has been going on for over 10 years. The people who wrote sensitive information in their Korans are at fault for desecrating their holy scripture and forcing us to dispose of it.
If we can burn an American flag that is no longer usable because it is respectful, why can we not burn a no longer usable Koran?
That is the best and most reasonable post on this board today. The only question I have is if there was a remote choice of burning them in secret. If they did it out in the open, shame on them. If they did it in secret, and someone came across the ashes, still, shame on them. So I think that someone did it intentionally, and I do blame the immediate leadership in not conveying a directive to do this in full confidence.
Where is Saddam Husain when you need him?
The only way we are leaving that money pit is if the people get educated and start managing the place for themselves. Saddam left Iraq with an extremely high literacy rate, and no open religious hatred toward women.
The Iraqis are more advanced because of Saddam. That is why although the Iraq war was started after Afghanistan, we are still in that money pit.
They have had a decade to educate their people. There is no excuse for their ignorance any longer.
I think the reason the Iraqi's are more advanced than those in Afghanistan is natural resources. You cannot fund education and schools when you live in a mountainous desert, as opposed "The Fertile Crescent", sitting on top of billions and billions of barrels of oil.
In "freedom of speech-loving America" burning the flag was illegal until 1989. So were about two decades ahead of a country that is living in the middle ages.
This is the most ridiculous news article I have ever read.
The books were to be disposed of.
If anything,from now on,Afgany people well versed in Musilm tradition who are not enemy combatants of the U.S.soldiers can advise us on every bit of refuse including whatever religious materials are present to be burnt.
If we need a separate bin to place these materials in and to have them escorted to a burning area and method that is Muslim approved then so be it.
Making some blanket statements that books should not be burnt by the U.S, military is so beyond reality it speaks only to the prejudices of the articles author and therefore has no basis in fact.
"Written by a housewife in New Brunswick": Wow, you said it all. Great rant and God bless. Combat wounded RVN vet, 25th ID, 11D, Tet 68.
Burn everything but their oil.
Amen!
Luke,
I will not respond to your idiotic and childesh comments. But I would like to ask anyone who will listen: If the copies of the Quran had coded or any other messages why the he ll those in charge did not out them in truck and take them to the Afghan authorities.
I can only conclude that those in charge are gulity of anything one might ascribe to them
Me: The Taliban should never be collaborating with an organization who flies planes into our buildings and murders our people. I say, "BURN, BABY, BURN!!!!"
burn the bible and see the rednecks squell. (even though I know they are phoney hate mongers so called christans). Im reading the ignorant comments on here by them saying its ok to burn another cultures books. Nazis!
Stanger has no idea what she is talking about.
She needs to be fired and banned from teaching.
1. It was not American troops
2. The books WERE NOT burned.
See AFGHAN statement below:
"Afghan officials told the AP news agency that the Korans were in rubbish that two soldiers with the US-led coalition transported in a lorry late on Monday night to a pit on the base where waste is burned.
When five Afghans working at the pit noticed the religious books in the rubbish, they stopped the disposal process.
"Foreign troops tried to burn a container of holy Koran books at three o'clock in the morning, but the Afghan mujahideen employees working at the base did not allow them," protester Mohammad Zahir told the BBC."
The U.S. Government Corporation is killing people around the world for the benefit of the Corporation, not real national security. What's burning a few books compared to all the evil the Corporation is doing!
I think most of you are missing the point. What are we fighting for? If we are fighting for our values (including freedom), how can we justify it if we easily abandon our values in the process. If you read the Bill of Rights which is part of what our troops are defending, the underlying thread of all 10 amendments is respect for an individual. Burning the Qur'an in front of an Islamic follower could easily be viewed as disrespectful to them. I personally have no problem with that, until I consider what it means to our own values. Disrespecting someone else's religion means disrespected the First Ammendment, one of my values.
That said, things that have been done by radical Islamics are unacceptable and need to be dealt with, but we need to maintain our values when dealing with those issues. If we try to apprehend one and they shoot, then shoot back and kill them, then treat their corpses respectfully. If they quickly surrender and present no threat, take them into custody and try them according to the laws our values have setup. Maybe, just maybe, if we live up to our values it might change just one person. Maybe that person will end up saving the lives of one of our troops. Regardless, disrespecting their beliefs is disrespecting our own values. Please keep that in mind.
Please be quiet, you have no idea what you're talking about and what you need more than anything is help with your sentence structure.
We, as Americans, take offense at the burning of our flag. Yet when our flags are old and have deteriorated to the point that they are unsightly, the preferred means of destroying them is by (honorably) burning them. The Boy Scouts have provided this service for decades. There should be some process that Muslims would accept wherein their religious texts can be disposed of when they are no longer of service. If the Qurans in question were delivered to an Afghan cleric for disposal, would he have agreed to do it? If so, would he also be sanctioned by the populace? This is a classic example of "stirring the pot" by the Taliban. Often, there are no issues involving civil unrest until someone creates one. There is always someone who says "You need to be upset by this, because I say so!" The ignorance, frustration, and even boredom of the citizens does the rest.
Wow, we burn religious texts, and the Taliban are the ones "stirring the pot".
I don't know where to begin. It makes me think that you need an old-fashioned kidnapping and deprogramming. The brainwashing is that severe.
Islam is the faith per Muslims. Islamists have the right to do anything anywhere. If we give them a chance,Islam will rule the world with an iron fist. In the West the liberals cry foul on every well intended ethical rules and opinions. The liberals in the US have a Muslim as the head to ACLU. He climed there for what? To establish Sariat in the US. The US is slowing slipping into an Islamic state allowing all Saiat rules and denyng everything that is Christian.
Naive.
Time to get out of there. This is just one more reason to. They hate us. Fine. They can deal with the Taliban by themselves. Forget the flag, Koran, Bible, Cross, etc.-they're all just symbols....things that can be (and are regularly) replaced. People can't be so easily replaced. Just get out of there. That's the only way to end this crud. Muslim men there (not the women and children) are all a bunch of stupid, backward, unreasonable, sick, hypocritical and murderous thugs who would easily embarrass and disgust even cro-magnons.
"freedom-of-speech-loving America"?
Islam was invented by Satan to mislead people away from the truth of Christ.
shhhh!!!! you might actually cause a riot with your words! oh freedom of speech? well damn i love america.
.
I am a veteran who finds the actions of these few idiots to be a slap in the face to the majority of great service people overseas working under extremely difficult conditions. The war isn't against a book! Did you just get transferred from your job at Abu Ghraib Prison? The damage may rate up there with what the Wikileaks traitor accomplished! You just set back our war on terror ten years and are personally responsible for doubling the number of people who want to kill us. What were you thinking? Let's get it together!
Quote – "an accompanying loss of faith in the applicability of Western Enlightenment values in the Afghan context."
Well, that about sums up the entire Afghan (Iraqi, Syrian, etc) situation. What continues to baffle me is why there was any faith in that concept to begin with.
Its not like this is a single copy edition or out of print for crying out loud. It was just refuse, burning books does not destroy the words unless it is the last of the printed copies. Its even online for petes sake so nothing wrong with burning them if they are simply part of the trash.
Burning books to control thought, a la '1984' or 'Farenheit 451,' is both morally wrong and fatally pointless. I have read these particular books were already defaced by enemies (who in the context of using them to communicate had to be Moslems) in order to communicate coded messages of war. Moslems should start by stoning those who deface their book for non-religious reasons. That said, for anyone not in that circle to be so un-educated as to not know holy sand when they step in it, that speaks badly to American military leadership. But it was not evil intent, just stupid.
Well, this was not about burning books from the way the story was explained. It was about destroying enemy communications. The enemy was hiding their communications in Qurans; the enemy likes to do things like that because it allows them to hide behind a religion.
Excellent point. As soon as the Koran is used in a way other than a holy book it should no longer be considered holy.
good luck explaining that to the "folks" that live there...come back and let me know how that goes.
Where was all the American outrage when our own military burned Bibles in Afghanistan, May of 2009? Book burning by a society that claims enlightened civility is outrageous.
from these comments it is clear that most people know very little about the Qur'an and Islam. most people are unaware that the Qur'an teach the same messasge of Jesus. I know most of you are shocked to hear this, but if you really want to learn something about Jesua and the Qur'an read "Jesus was a Muslim; building bridges of intefaith dialogue, understanding and friendship" on Amazon. You will learn quite a bit and you will realize that all religions teach the same message. so do yourselves a favor and enlighten yourselves, it will serve you will all your life. peace.
I am always astonished at the amount of academic liberals need to come out and back up the president for his uncoventional ways of handling international affairs! Obama was NOT courageous–it does not take courage to support those in the middle east you are very intimately connected. This president has really weakened America, but that is the liberal desire or utopia they envision. Book burning or buring in general is up the military and Ms. Strange has NO idea what the military does when they leave a base so she is best to stick to the classroom with her dumbed down class who will write every morsel she writes down!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She is CLUELESS and writes about something she has NO knowledge of! When do christians expect some kind of apolgy? when? It won't happen because it does not happen in Islam!
Me: Afghans shouldnt kill americans
The point of the illiteracy is not relevant in this case, I think. The Quran is printed and spoken only in Arabic, and as such, normal Pashtun or Tajik, y don't use Arabic for their language or written words.
I'm ok with burning the Koran providing they throw the Bible in there too. We need more witchcraft.
From these comments... there are some VERY scary right-wing extremists out there... that all of us should be afraid of!
This was intentionally staged and leaked to the media, serving as part of efforts to ignite reprisal of the degree sufficient for the U.S. to engage in war. It is no different than the previous false intelligence reports of WMD used as the medium to start the Desert Storm campaign, with the exception that a spin has been put on the matter with the intent to avoid the inquiries previously encountered. This nation has been poised for war for months now and only needs the proper kindling to push the matter over the top.
I am serious. Burn the Qumran and torch Afghanistan with a nuclear match problems solved.
These are filthy vermin extinguish them and save the world the trouble.
whoa whoa whoa...then their mighty "quran" MIGHT save them...oh, its just a book? seriously? a BOOOK? hmmm
"The burning took place in view of local Afghan staff who felt compelled to get word of the action out to the population at large." This was their mistake.
If burning the flag is an 'act of free speech'...then can't the same sometimes be said for burning the Koran, Bible, Torah, etc?
I'm sorry, but in no way did the act of a probable incredibly ignorant solider barely older than a child justify the response...
Response to "kirk i dont care burn the book and kill em all" :
This point of view is exactly the same point of view the Muslim extremists have. Just like the lady who wrote that letter, Muslim extremists believe others different from them to be sub human, they believe that death is justifiable for not prescribing to a certyain religious belief, they resent the mass murder of their fellow citizens and use it to justify an aggressive expansion of their religion, and they believe any ends justify any means. This lady sounds just like she could be in the Taliban, it' just happens to be coming from our point of view. We need to ask ourselves, are we a greater and better nation and people? Or are we right down in the muck of bigotry and blind hatred along with these jihadists?
As I go thru' many of the comments, I find the Satan clearly exists within many of their blood, vein and psyche (deeply planted) when they advocate burning of a holy book and support the cool-blooded, gruesome murder of two US soldiers. Those who engages themselves in this kind of 'inhuman' business, they surely are the most obnoxious weeds of human breed - to describe them to the least.
Obviously an author who has never served in combat. Anything the enemy may use against you must be disposed of quickly. Remote bases only have so much storage capacity and you can't exactly set your trash out on the curb for the garbageman to collect every Tuesday.
We, as American should NEVER burn a Quran or any Holy book. How does an act like that make up better than anyone else in the world. It is good that the president is sensitive enough to apoligize for this act. Sadly, we have the "repubs" and other war hawks who think this is ok. It is now time to leave Afghanistan. When people no longer want your help or involvement you MUST PACK UP and leave as soon as possible. Let Mitt, Rick, Newt,and a few other "right Wing Nuts " stay in Afghanistan!
This article completely misses the point. These books, Korans, had been defaced, and needed to be properly disposed of. Just who were they going to give these scrawled on, books bearing extremist messages to, anyway. They had to be destroyed and that's that. They were no longer just Korans. They had become, in effect, weapons for the detainees. This article is delusional in its naivete. I don't see too many copies of Mein Kampf in German libraries these days. Some books we can do without, thank you very much. Yes, we need to judge.
Does Ms.Stanger realize that killing our servicemen and burning our flag is highly inflammatory and offensive to most americans. Her and most of kind never consider or care what is offensive to anyone except minorities , ileagles and muslims.
LOL ! At the standing-on-your-heads liberals........when will you all convert to Islam ? With libs for leaders, it's just a matter of time.....LOL ! Hypocrites you all are !!
Completely agree with YOU!!!
AMERICANS NEED TO KNOW ABOUT TURF WARS:
We kill innocent women & children, we burn sacred books in a country that is largely illiterate and then we fume when the citizens react violently against us. wake up people!!! you need to ask, are we really there for freedom & democracy or are we fighting the turf wars of the power elite, who will never send their own blood into such places...
WHAT ARE THESE TURF WARS AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR THE AMERICAN POPULATION?
i was in Viet Nam, not for the US military, for the Oil companies... we were in VN to protect the oil for ourselves in that part of the world. YES, there is big oil over there. Do you really think that we cared about how VN went politically. If so, why don't we help Sudan, and other war torn African nations. think about Iraq & Afghanistan & Iran and what these countries really mean to us in terms of peace & freedom. These countries have never attacked us, we were attacked by Saudi's. AND YET, Saudi's are our best friends because they sell us oil. Iraq, Iran & Afghanistan are oil/mineral super rich countries whose infrastructures we have weakened or destroyed.
Americans need to know that we are now in a period when we are fighting turf wars over oil & minerals on the planet. China is already winning that most of those war economically thru banking & diplomacy, not by violent military aggression. Our USA style is to bully, frighten, create chaos and destroy the infrastructure of a country so that our power elite can take over the weakened state and control their assets.
God help us when we engage in full blown turf wars over water. THAT WILL BE REAL WORLD WAR... (that war has already begun in earnest with our border country mexico, whose farmers are being shut off from the Colorado river, whose water has already been diverted into LV and CA agriculture. WAKE UP!!!
Wow...and a new level of idi0cy is reached! Thanks Chelsea!
Sounds like your typical LIBERAL journalist!
Weren't they using the "books" to pass extremist messages in? Also, why don't you mention that the "books" would do no good for the women in Afgan because the Taliban doesn't allow them to learn how to read? That might also have something to do with the low literacy rate in the county.
Let's review...Can we name another group that did a lot of book burning and what did the civilized world think of that?
American kids don't even read anyways since American parents want their kids to succeed in athletics and baby making.
Just look at the Jersey Shore, complete garbage. Books in America are nothing, but a paper version of coal.
we kids do read...its called an ipad now...and we read "updates" to facebook and other crap social networks...ALL kids do this...sarcasm*
Their religion is a joke, their minds are of 500 years ago, they burn our flags, kill our soldiers...yet let one ONE american burn a "book"...and all hell breaks loose...we have to be there to keep "them" from ever coming this way. doesnt it just make sense to anyone? in the far future, it'll be a great thing we are doing.
but seriously, their bible can be printed over and over again...what is the fuss of it burning? Why dont we riot and kill like they do when they trash our bible? Humans are pretty stupid.
What in the heck was anyone possibly thinking burning a Koran in Afghanistan?! Stupidity!!!!!!
yeah we should be recycling that crap and making kids books. LOL
even Bibles?
Liberals didn't utter one damn peep when the military did that a while back. hypocrites
Methinks some of you don't get it. Arabs often squeel about one thing when its really another. Not new even to our culture. I've often seen Korans and Bibles hollowed out and small weapons hidden therein. What do ya do with the defective books afterward ? Why, ya pitch'em in the trash which mostly thereafter get burned. Who cares !. This is an ACT on their part. What they are indirectly saying in a big way IS...."now you owe us....what are you going to pay in terms of MONEY for us to vacate this terrible complaint". "Yes, in the one hand you must show remorse and a frowny face, BUT with the other hand fork over that moola and our hurt feelings will disappear".
The comments from "KEN" are blady non-sense. This filthy mouth (KEN) can not open his stupid mouth against my prophet. I will surely pass-on these outrageous comments among the MUSLIM community in NORTH AMERICA. I am surprised about CNN? What a shameful newsagency this is?
The problem is not that some Qurans were burned. The problem is not that our brave soldiers are not expert diplomats. The problem is not that every soldier isn't a paragon of virtue. The problem is not that President Obama apologized. The problem is that the Afghans do not fear our military.
We need to remind the Afghans that we are the occupiers of their country and that their dung pile of a country currently belongs to us until we decide we are done with it. Fear is the greatest tool of any occupying force, always has been always will be. The Afghans have little fear of our soldiers and in fact they fear our opposition much more than us.
The problem is that the we the occupiers are seen as an ineffective and offensive intruding police force, which is essentially a correct assessment of how our military acts when tasked with such duties. The fact that they do not fear us makes them think they can essentially "fire" us.
So we should either get deadly serious when these matters arise or we should get the hell out of there. I vote we get out, because there is not much in it for us to stay. Protecting them from the wolf at their door isn't worth the lives worry or money.
Alas the current policy will continue on with this commander in chief in charge. He will allow our forces to continue hanging in limbo because he isn't bold enough to make tough decision one way or the other.
Good article -we need more thinking people. Gingrich is just an Obama whiner along with Romney and Santorum and not mature enough to even run for the office of the president. Obama would make a fool out of him . Please remember Ron Paul -he seems to be the only sane one so far.
ron paul? pffft dude seriously...he isnt going to do a damn thing, but fatten up his wallet like the rest...wake up, go outside...and simply live your life...don't let others guide you, guide yourself.
I checked some of your comments ,corey, and it is not much to be proud of. Probably you need to go to some school and learn how to write and get some guidance, before you critisize others. You almost sound like an illiterate trall that is paid to write garbage -the pattern seems to be there.
To be fair, books never should be burn or disposal........donate to schools, libraries....just give to people that it. Anywhere in the world should be the same.
Should they donate them with the terrorist inscriptions still printed inside, like the particular Qurans that were being burned? Liberals...living proof there is a difference between education and intellect.
Ms. Stanger is right on the mark. Both ISAF Commander General Allen and the commanding officer of the Bagram base should be relieved of command and retired immediately. This is command incompetence, pure and simple.
Good article -we need more thinking people. Gingrich is just an Obama whiner along with Romney and Santorum and not mature enough to even run for the office of the president. Obama would make a fool out of him . Please remember Ron Paul -he seems to be the only sane one so far.
I have tried to place this comment twice and it keeps hanging in. It said " duplicate comment detected " . Why is my comment above not being posted ? Censorship ? Manipulation of comments ? I will keep trying till it goes through.
Why burn something that makes perfectly good toilet paper?
Thank you Jane Fonda for your article.
We shouldn't waste time burning books when we should be burning the whole country of Afganistan to the ground. Nothing good comes from there anyways. Level the land and start over.
Someone please explain to the idiot who wrote this article that the "books" weren't burned because of their original content but because terrorists had written messages in them. Once again, the left gives us living proof that education and intelligence are two very different things.
Im a left leaning Libertarian, and I agree with your comment wholeheartedly
There is outrage when the Quran is burned. Where is the outrage when a suicide bomber blows himself up at children's school or a crowded market. Where is the outrage?
Are you talking about Timothy Mcvaigh? he was a Christian not Muslim not from the Middle East but from here from America ,he blew up a childcare full of little children's I never hear people burning the Bible ,I never hear Americans hating Christians it is always a double standar!
Wait! In the middle of a raging war, are you ready to accept the culpability of the USA/NATO forces? Couldn't they have been set up by the enemy? Never offer an instantaneous apology. Always defer to "undergoing thorough investigation" with promise to punish the wrong-doers. IF USA/NATO troops did this, they deserve being put in the brig and then dishonorably discharged.
I'd say it depends on the book....in this case...a bloodthirsty, Bronze Aged religious text that is the primary motivator for global terrorism. Yeah– go ahead and fire up the incinerator. Keep a single copy of it in a showcase as a perfect example of how NOT to live your life.....
Muslims are outraged by a book being burned, but they don't seem to have any problems cutting the noses off their daughters for being too westernized, or spraying battery acid on 7 year old girls for going to school. Burn that entire region, starting with their ugly book of horrors.....
Nice idea.
I am a liberal, and I support this
This whole idea of a war to "win the hearts and minds" of the people is absurd; the whole Afghanistan operation should have been focused of killing or capturing Osama Bin Laden and destroying the Al Qaida organization. Unfortunately Ivory tower residents on the Left AND Right got it into their minds that we had to deliver the people of Afghanistan from tyranny or some other crap. If the people of Afghanistan will murder our folks and each other over the burning of a book there is no reason we should provide them with anything other than a some booby trapped buildings as we pull out for good.
The books cant have been THAT holy, they desecrated them by writing in them.
"...we should never implicitly condone American soldiers burning books as a means to defending freedom."
You're kidding right? They were taking out the trash, no disrespect to Islamic holy books.
If I download a PDF of the Koran (Quran), read it, then send it to my computer's trash bin, am I in danger from an Islamist?
Dennis
how about people should not kill other people when books are burned....
Whoever ordered those Korans to be burned should be fired How stupid can you possibly be?!!!
Would we have ordered cases of Bibles to be dumped into the sewer system?
How damn dumb can you be?
Burning books? What century are we living in?
It's strange how there wasn't a fuss when Bibles were burnt a couple years ago.
Are there no landfills? Are there no sewer systems?
How long, exactly, will it take us to learn that Muslime do not like their Korans to be desecrated? How much brains does it take to figure this out?
A case of old Korans, a case of old Bibles, and a case or used toilet paper all have the same approximate value. They are all trash. Despite this obvious truth, how damned hard is it to figure out that you can't burn Korans in an Islamic nation? Am I asking too much of the American military?
How can you desecrate a book that is piece of crap to begin with?
"In the name of God, the Beneficient, the Merciful"..... Allasia, crap you say? I am a Muslim, and it hurts to hear you say that. Tell me, have you come across any Muslim around the world that has burnt the bible? Zip, zero, none. Nations flags yes, but never holy books. Why Muslims would never burn a bible is because part of the bible is repeated in the Quran. Give me those Muslims that burn the bible, and I will knock his head.
Your are kidding, I am sure or you are ignorant of your own religion. Say I take Bible to Saudi Arabia, do you know what will happen to me and the bible. I will be lucky to leave with my life but the bible would be consigned to garbage dump. Yes, when your own religion followers burn and bomb our churches in Pakistan, have they taken the Bible out reverently, I ask you sir? Your religion unfortunately sir is the most begotted and unrelentlessly hostile to other religions. Sorry if I hurt your sentiments, but in our country that the USA we have what your countries dont have - freedom of religion and freedom of speach. YOu have forgotten obviously the destruction of statues of Buddha in Afganistan. I can go on but you get my point.
I'd wipe my ass with a koran, if only the paper were softer...
"In the name of God, the Beneficient, the Merciful"..... pls tell that to Munkar Nakir during their interrogation in the grave. Who are they? Just about the meanest of angels Muslims believe. Google them. And guess what will defend you against their tortures? ....its that crap you say you gonna wipe your ass with. Peace.
If God created something from nothing, then both something and nothing would be apart of him. The problem is that something and nothing are total opposites. Like good and evil. Nothing is associated with no movement, something is associated with movement and to be both would be like saying that truth and lies are the same. If God created something from nothing, he would not be a jealous God because he could easily turn something back into nothing. The point here is that no scripture in the Bible specifically states that God created something from nothing. Science is promoting it and the church is beginning to accept it.
Finite Universe – zero and one are equal (matter can be infinitely divided into nothing – God is Nothing that created everything out of emptiness) "At the Planck distance and the Planck time all physics, as we know it today collapses. This is the reason we call the beginning of the big bang a singularity. You cannot apply ordinary reasoning there. Zero and one have no sense there.OK?" J-P Burri There should be no doubt in anyone’s mind that the Big Bang views one and zero as being equal, since it states that zero appeared out of the absence of zero; then zero created something. Many scientists believe or have faith that light does not have mass, thus they believe the Universe is Finite. Religion promotes the most commonly accepted idea of the group. If light does not have mass, then it would be impossible to move an electron. Light described as a particle means nothing, if it has no mass since it would be impossible to distinguish from nothing because no mass means void of substance. If it has no substance, then nothing is present to distinguish the particle from other particles.
The Big Bang theory prevents any condition where something has always been. Infinity is defined as the difference between one and zero. Once one and zero are the same according to the big bang, the definition of infinity as stated above is no longer valid. If the big bang occurred, all math's must deal with the proof of 0=1.
Infinite Universe – zero is not equal to one (there is a point where matter can't be divided – God is Something that can neither be created nor destroyed that is dependent on nothing.) An infinite universe lacks a beginning, so there is no one set past or a given future.
The infinite Universe supports the view that all particles considered to be energy have mass or substance; that there is one fundamental particle which accounts for all the diverse forms of matter in the Universe. It is the ultimate example of team work, since it fundamentally has no reason to destroy itself. So, why does evil exist? Free will and without freewill, God would lack choice. Balance is the nature of perfection in the Infinite Universe. In an infinite Universe the total amount of something remains constant. When an atom is divided it no longer has the characteristics of the original element. There is a point where matter can't be divided and at this point something and nothing are distinctly defined. In the infinite Universe, the term infinite is used to describe the difference between something (1) and nothing (0). There is an infinite difference between zero and one.
Therefore the principles of human evolution from an insane species require a virgin birth of Adam and Eve for the establishment of a moral and just human government (Isaiah 9:6).
Baptism is associated with accepting Jesus and being saved by grace. Being saved by grace means you should have received a punishment for your sin which hurt other people. The problem is that Grace tends to be put above The Greatest Commandment Matthew 22:37. If Grace were above the Greatest Commandment, then the devil could be forgiven and he would be in heaven. The devil does not love God and this is the reason he is not in heaven. The purpose of following the law is to show others that we love God. Unfortunately, those that view Grace above the Greatest commandment are using the law as a means to judge others as being not good enough to follow it. This is the common argument against the Jew. Love or judge, the choice is yours! Matthew 22:37 states you are called to Love and the law tells us how. Not knowing that God loves us is associated with our inherited sin from the fall of Adam and Eve. For God so loved the world that he sent his son not to condemn the world but to save it. Christ forgives our old sinful ways, since being born again is associated with a change in behavior because we now see that God loves us and therefore we now desire to love him. If grace is infinite, then it would not be a choice to love God. If grace is infinite, there would be no reason to change our ways and become a new creation or be born again. If grace is infinite, then God would accept evil and thus be evil. To forgive and not expect any change in behavior would produce more of the same behavior that the original forgiveness required.
If, in fact, the holy text's were used to send messages between prisoners, which I 100% believe, then the Muslim prisoners (I believe the term is terroriests) were in fact, trading informa6tion illegally and in fact desecrated the Holy books themselves by doing so. The American military therefore, had a right to destroy these desecrated books. Whether there is a procedure in place to do so, maybe that is what you should be reporting on. But they should have and were destroyed by the quickest means possible. We shouyld return this country back over to the people of Afghanistan to destroy as they wish. As if terroists again decide to strike US interests, they will again, find out that we will never stop until the mission is complete, that is our right to do so, no matter what country the terroists are from, and what country decides to harbour them.
New headline: Afghani's shouldn't kill people.
or
No one should kill anyone.
It's not about the book. It's about murder.
America needs a harsh lesson just like a bad child that has forgotten how grace is achieved. It may take a few books but soon enough it will come to us. and yes we most certainly deserve it.
No theuy should not be burning books. Why would they want to. They probably don't really know why they are there in that country and not at home where they should be but they are not there to burn any books. Bring them home and let those people kill each other. Come on Obama what are you waiting for?
Wow! this is what is wrong with America now! I can't believe the people who fought in other wars for our country would agree with our President or this wimpy ol bag. They would burn the bible and yourself in a second
It seems to me that they may have missed an opportunity to examine the writings for intel. Otherwise I think burning them wuld have been appropriate.
Screw the "prophet" moHAMmed and his little book. Don't like the criticism? THEN DON'T READ IT. This isn't rocket science!
They burn our flag, we burn their 'holy' books. Sounds fair enough to me.
Burn all religious books. Maybe then people will stop killing in the name of god.
Oh what a tangled web we weave when forever we practice nation building.
The problem, I feel with our being there is we don't go all the way. When we started in Afghanistan we started off fairly well but it wasn't enought, then we went into Iraq and divided our attention and resources. We should've put all our resources to obliterate the Taliban and all extremists and destroy their poppy fields where they get their cash flow. We didn't do it all the way and now are hands are held back by political correctness. I feel, either we don't go in or since we did you go all the way. LIke the war on drugs, either legalize it or obliterate the sources and put everything you've got into it. Illegal immigration is the same way, no real decision, it is illegal so start deporting or find a way to legalize it but make up your mind and go 100%.
Bunch of idiots! What did they think would come of burning Quran's in Afghanistan? These are not the values that we in the Western World stand for. Whoever ordered this stupid action has violated the trust and respect that we in the West have in our armed forces and representatives abroad. Those responsible should be court-martialled on the spot and permanently discharged from the armed services.
"their frustration is understandable, but we should never implicitly condone American soldiers burning books as a means to defending freedom. We should not attack those who apologize for such an act. The cost of losing what we are fighting to uphold is far too high. Thankfully, President Obama understands that."
I agree to NOT burn their bible. It's wrong and should be left alone.
The Taliban and its allies have murdered, mutilated, and maimed thousands of their countrymen and US/NATO troops, but we're the ones committing "atrocities?" This is what I would expect of a faculty member from Middlebury. How does one dispose of books; throw them in a garbage pile? Our soldiers were damned if they did, and damned if they didn't. We were disposing of materials being used to transmit terrorist instructions. Just what the hell does the Professor think we should have done; given them a free pass.
We ALL need to grow up and stop acting like two year-olds pitching a fit if someone does something to hurt our 'widdle' feelings. This applies to extremists. Killing ppl over a book is stupid, esp. for a religion of peace. At one time, the Islamic world was a center of learning and innovation. Sad some opportunistic extremists ruined that. To all the rational voices on here, thank you! Burning holy books outside of necessity for destroying enemy communication or respectfully discarding an old, worn-out copy is wrong, as is willy-nilly murdering of innocents. I believe Obama was trying to do 'damage control', no matter what you Repubs think! And finally, to apologize for ppl like Jodie, REAL Christians would want you in Heaven with them, not smugly laugh at your destruction while they party hearty with Jesus!
"the playing field will never be level"
Of course it won't.... Give me a break....We are occupying Someone else's Country. What would our teenagers do when it gets dark? When we are invaders of a nation for what ever reason, don't expect the invadees to be polite about it!!
I'm not sure that this article was written with the correct (unbiased and educated) viewpoint. What we need to understand first is WHY these books where burned. Because, AND I COULD BE WRONG, disposing of a tainted Koran in their religion.. would be by way of burning.. which is acceptable. Again, correct me if I am wrong. Either way, what could have been done out of respect for a Religion, could quite possibly be a situation that is simply being twisted and blown out of proportion.. We DONT HAVE all the facts. And to write a story like this as if the US Soldiers where burning books out of some form of disrespect and/or some sort of Censorship agenda... without knowing the whole story.. is bad journalism. Oh wait.. that's right... I forgot I was reading a CNN article... carry on..
Wow. Could you possibly be more ill-informed. I am in Afghanistan. This is my 3rd tour here. Thank you for evoking images of Nuremberg rallies. Well done. And you were paid for it as well. The lack of professionalism in "journalism" never ceases to amaze. The books were mixed in with various other texts and objects that were to be disposed of by burning in a designated waste disposal pits. It is standard operating procedure by both Coalition forces and local nationals. The fact that religious texts got mixed in with the rest of the items to be burned was an unfortunate oversight, an innocent mistake made by some lower enlisted troop who cannot read Pashto, not some diabolical scheme to deface the Islamic faith. At no point were the books burned "in front of" anyone. They were recovered by a group that was dropping off more trash to burn. Stop sensationalizing this foolish mistake. All you are doing is attempting to drive up your hits on this site. It is crass. And to all of you sitting on your high horses, snug safely in your homes whilst myself and my brothers attempt to rectify this situation, please show you aren't completely lazy. Use your exalted device of computing, click the mouse a few more times and do some reseach. Its pathetic.
well said, and thank you for your service
There is probably an accepted way to dispose of holy books in every religion. The US took great pains to bury Bin Laden properly, and it should follow the Islamic precepts for destroying damaged Qu'ran. Every religion should be respected.
Here in this article I see finally a scholar speaking- not junkie headed CrashMaster. However, I think this is the beganing of the end of american occupation in Afghanistan. The war with rusian in 1979 was fueled solely for the same reasons. History repeats itself. This time may be China, Iran, Rusia will back the same people who fought Russians. Over 100,000 Russian were killed in Afghanistan, do you thing Russian will forget that. Ultimitly not. lets hope for best and I hope US has to really play diplomay to calm the Afghans.
A lot of ink wasted explaining why the reason the books were burnt wasn't the issue, instead of the real issue which was their reaction. the Books were paper. the books came from a printing press, not the hand of any ones god. the issue is as it always is with religion and that's fanatics. as long as there is religion there will be fanatics. Its not about tolerance, its not about acceptance, its about people that want to kill you because you don't believe like they do. Its one of the many things this president didn't and still doesn't get. Believing that your charisma, a hand of friendship and apologizing will somehow placate people that simple hate you for who you are, is a recipe for disaster
Wait...We shouldnt be burning books in a Democracy?
They should not be burning books, any books, but if the books contained secret messages, as alleged in the article above, then it was a mistake to burn them where the locals could witness it. Many of these locals want to do anything to demonize our military, so greater care should be taken in these kinds of situations. But this is far from the first time we've seen the military behave in such a ham-handed way, we need to win the hearts and minds of these people, and the military brass realizes that, this was just a mistake that should be handled more discreetly in the future.
So burning books, even inadvertently, is bad but nary a mention of the murder of four Americans? Any condemnation for those acts? No because that would go against the mud dumb leftist creed. And I'm no right winger: I wish the Tea Party types would take the Allison Stanger/CNN types and go crawl under a rock.
Muhammed was a pédophilé ! I wipe my @ss off with the quran every day... it feels good!
"So, Sergeant, go dump these korans into the trash file for me, will you?"
"Well, Sir, do you really thins that is a good idea?"
"Hmmmmmm, Sergeant. You may have a point there. Let's think this through"
Can this conversation not have taken place?
how about "Muslims shouldn't kill the unfaithful?"
I don't see this type of reaction where christians are killed in islamic countries...
We went to Afghanistan because the taliban was harboring and training terrorist after 911. We just didn't get tough enough because we went into Iraq instead of severely dealing with the taliban ,an evil muslim cult that kills women at will and don't even allow them to go to school. We needed a Patten or MacArthur but they are history.
We didn't go there to be nice guys. Remember the innocent people jumping off the towers in NYC. Remember the muslims dancing in the streets all over the Middle East. Who thinks there is any reason within the muslim cults?
Rather than making this an "us v them", we are alwys good and right – they are always bad and evil – we need to look at the root causes of violence and not contribute ti it ourselves. The US actually trained and armed Alqeda and also armed Sadam. The US does some aweful stuff sometimes. Let's start acting right and this garbage wont happen to us. It doesn't happen to most other peacful nations who dont stick thier nose into all these coutries business.
I wonder how many right wing christains would flip out over burned bibles. I personally could care less. The fewer religious books the better
Let's be clear about something–when extremists used these "books" as instruments to disseminate plans and propaganda, they stopped being books. They were tools, instruments, or weapons. Whatever you want to call them, they weren't books are were dealt with accordingly.
You don’t burn books like fahrenheit 451, Moby Dick, The Iliad, or The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. But you DO get to burn the Quran because it is filled with hateful, venomous rhetoric that wants to subjugate the people of this earth.
Why is this author collectively criticizing all US troops for supposedly losing "touch with why we are fighting in the first place" – when these acts were committed by a few idiots? Further – how can she claim this represents any sort of trend or is anything more than an isolated incident? Frankly – the lady sounds like a far left ivory tower whack-job who just can't wait for the next opportunity to launch a blanket attack on the military and suck-up to Obama...
This raises three questions: (1) What would the Afghans do with Bibles confiscated from infidel Christian soldiers that were full of margin notes on escaping and such? (2) How do Afghans dispose of old, defaced (i.e., with a lot of hateful notes scribbled in the margins) Korans? I'll bet they burn them. (3) Think of the questions this raises in an electronic world. Am I committing heresy if I delete a Bible or Koran from my Kindle? What if I had a PDF of a Bible or Koran on an old hard drive on an old computer? Is it heresy to destroy the old hard drive, or do I have to copy the PDF off to another medium? Does the new medium have to be blessed in some way, or can I just use an ordinary memory stick. The Afghans live almost in the stone age in many ways...the idea that individual copies of a book that can be printed or reproduced electronically in millions of copies should be sacred is relevant to them, but not to the rest of the world (or at least it shouldn't be.) The sacred nature of individual copies of such books was destroyed by a gentleman named Guttenberg with his printing press and movable type many years ago.
HYPOCRITE
Where was this story when hundreds of BIbles that belonged to our servicement where burned? Yes this is the truth and was even reported by CNN, but no one wrote articles on how wrong it was.
If people are going to tell the US what to do, then we should be allowed to tell others what to do, sorry folks it works both ways, it's never a one way streak, but it has been for the past few years.
Solution found!
Overhaul our education system, so that children know that they should NEVER burn Qurans, but it is ok to urinate on crucifixes.
You've got to love those post-modernists halfwitted writers.
"When books are burned in a country desperately in need of more books, where only 43% of men and 12% of women are literate..."
Afghanistan has high rate of illiteracy, because they don't have enough books? Really?
I find it ironic that the Afghans are protesting and killing US and NATO forces over the desecration of their most sacred book at the hand of a few US soliders. Whether right or wrong, where is the outrage towards the prisoners who desecrated the same holy books by writing in them in the first place, sparking the need for eventual destruction? If a muslim must have clean hands before touching such a holy book, surely writing in that same book would be an incredible insult worthy of punishment by their laws. Hypocrisy at best and convenient scapegoats for a group whom need no reason to kill.
I agree with Karen – unfortunately, most on this forum seemed to have missed that particular point.
When ;you burn a liberal you get a lot of air pollution.
Enemy prisoners enguage in activity to harm Americans. The Americans end the activity. The enemy feels that we descrated their books – which were already descrated by the writting done to them by prisoners. The enemy kills more people. obama says he's sorry we stopped their crimminal activity. YOU defend obama, justify Americans getting killed – and call a few young guys venting their feeling from being in a daily meat grinder- where their own commander in chief sides with the enemy – an atrocity? Liberal thought is a disease.
You forgot one thing. YOU are the one justifying americans being killed because YOU probably thing these wars are just. Well here's a news flash. They aren't.
And you know what else? 9/11 was an inside job.
Your right – 9/11 was an inside job – to get you.
They are comming to get you, and will use torture to find what secrets you know.... You can't get away.... best end it now before they brainwash you into getting a job.
Obozo fans,
Just like Mein Kampf, The New Testament, Frannie and Zoey or whatever. If I bought the friggin book, I can burn it if I like. Thanks, that's Freedom. Now if some neanderthal murderous lunatics start lopping heads, it is not my fault.
Get your head on straight! Deal with the Lunacy. Not liberal PC'ness.
It's not because people are burning Qurans that only 12% of women are literate. 12% of women are literate because of how the Quran is used to justify keeping women illiterate.
It should have been a peaceful protest but I think there are enemies there using this protest to start violence. Also it is really hard for Americans to understand cultural values and differences of others.. People there have different mentality. To them it wasn't just a book being burned.. They felt disrespected, violated and to them their honor is everything..they rather lose their lives but not their honor...I know me and ur will disagree that no lives is worth over it but that is how it is over there.
Ron Paul has it right. WE have NO business there seal our borders and bring the troops home.
Burn a liberal and save our country.
Do you REALLY want to risk getting arrested for inciting violence?
What is the difference between burning a Qumran and burning a liberal.
One causes a riot the other is a riot.
Thank god errr Al aha that Obama apologized other wise there would have been real trouble.
I don't think Dr. Stanger need worry about Gingrich. His ilk seem more and more to share a lot in common with another famous group of book-burners from some decades ago ...
... NAZIS.
There is something else that is bothering me. I have participated in sending books to our troops overseas. There are groups that ask for, and ship paperbacks to them. Yet I am reading they regularly burn new and old books of all kinds. You mean they can't find other homes for these books, I throw a book away if it gets in too bad a condition to read, but there is something inherently wrong with burning books. Aren't there any libraries or people over there who would like to have some of these books? Passing notes is not new, it has been done in all prisons, and if these Korans were used in this manor there had to be a better way of handling it. I know one thing I won't be donating anymore books to be sent overseas. I guess our service people will have to all get kindles.
I worked as a surgeon in a Mission hospital in Iran for four years and became very well acquainted with the fiendish cleverness–zarangi- of Iraniansand all Middle Easterners. I suspect that a Taliban double agent may have arranged for the bag full of Korans were burned to foment an anti American demonstration. I suspect that many Iranians in America would agree that that is the case until proven otherwise.
Gordon
They forgot rule number one of the Burning Book Club.. Do Not Talk About Burning Book Club..
Now, imagine if the Taliban or Afghans had burned the Bible, which was taken from American prisoners, you can just see and hear the outrage. It's an unfortunate situation, which shouldn't require American deaths as retribution. I vote for getting out of Afghanistan now. The country, such as it is, seems to be ungovernable. Let it be.
Oddly enough, I am a devout Christian but I would not be at all surprised to see the Bible burned (nor would I be shocked or outraged) – rather, it is to be expected in a Muslim country.
My husband served in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and from what I have learned from him – I am of the firm opinion that most people on this forum have no idea what it is really like over there. They have no idea what is really going on.
Trick please like you know what's going on anywhere. The Taliban branch of the Illuminate hanging out in caves using their magic brain machine on our boys. It's reprehensible that the cerebro blocker helmets aren't being used. Hug your kids and eat fruit pies, I don't even care anymore.
In hindsight, the administration there should be more careful and throughout to sort things out before burning. Nevertheless, using the Qur'an to justify for killing is totally uncalled for and simple barbaric and unholy. This is not the first time and, sadly, won't be the last. The whole Muslim community is responsible for this for inciting, collaborating, tolerating, preaching, supporting, and executing these kinds of animal like behaviors against human civilization.
We really need to get our heads on straight – Democracy isn't for everyone – If you don't want to fight for your rights -then don't ask us to do it for you.
Let's distinguish between burning books like Savanarola to prevent people from reading the book and destroying potentially dangerous communications sent by prisoners. The first is reprehensible, the second reasonable. Obviously, the execution could have been better to avoid the outrage.
If the books had been abandoned the people would have made an incident from that. If they had been donated to the Govt., we would have been accused of defacing them. Trying to help a fanatical population has cost the US taxpayer billions and that is the least cost. The dead and maimed American sons is an atrocity that the US Govt. should be held accountable for. Afghanastan has an abundance of resources that US business want. After all of our pandering to the puppet Govt with that thought in mind, they just sold all copper exploration to China. I hate to be associated with idiots.
What else would you expect burning Korans in front of the locals more then likely unaware of the actual intent behind the burning and even then if they were aware they still wouldn't agree with Koran burning......... The suspect articles should have been contained by American personnel only and shipped to another location away from local eyes..... Other wise we're just pi**ing away the last 11 yrs......... And an obscene amount of money in the process
What about other countries burning bibles and killing Christians? not saying this is right, but you got to look at both sides.
I would whole heartedly agree if the Islamist government (its customs agents) at the Airport stop tearing out images of Hindu Gods and Goddesses, Christian Icons inkluding Christ, Mary and others, churches and temples and Pagodas from the magazines. No this is not hearsay. I have seen this with my eyes at the Riyadh Airport. This may be happening in other Islamist nations too but I don't know. It does not happen in Jordan or Egypt or Israel or Indonesia. So I request all Muslims to ask Saudis and others to stop trashing icons of other religions.
Here's where I disagree. The quran or its sister the bible both loudly proclaim themselves to be the moral compass for all humankind. Then they turn around and promote violence to the unfathomable degree. They should both be burned worldwide. New books need to be written that encompass all of humankind. It would give the displaced and disillusioned less of a reason to kill.
While the burning of books is usually abhorrent to most, the discreet disposal as garbage of any religious books such as the Bible or Qur'an or Book of Mormon can only be a good thing for humanity. Clearly the American military should have been more careful and yes, we can apologize for the offense caused but make it understood that we are apologizing only for our carelessness in burning the garbage. Next time you burn Qu'rans throw a Bible or two in.
We need to burn more Koreans!
Pointing the finger at the United States in this situation pretty much shows how nice we are as Americans but also at how we view people, particularly these protesters who are upset. We all have to admit whether its nice or not that as much as we probably should have paid more attention to burning these books, the behavior and outrage in the streets of Afghanistan is absolutely uncalled for and unacceptable. If all you expect from "these people" is that kind of behavior then you are not particularly as open minded as you call yourself. Sometimes you have to exercise a little common sense and just be honest. We all know it. Burning the Koran with bibles and other materials is not on the level of killing other human beings and if you say it is your flat-out lying. They know its wrong, and we know its wrong. The fact that we burnt Korans should not even be an issue anymore as its being completely and wholly overshadowed. These people are not animals, they are people and they are not as ignorant as everyone wants to portray them.
Lady, we burned some Korans that a number of extremist Muslim terrorists were using to pass coded messages (i.e. messages that tell them how to kill more of our people and more Afghanis.) Get a clue. Obama's "apology" to them is a failure of leadership and a continuing of the "apology tour" he started when he got into office.
There's simply no reasoning with religious nutjobs that KILL PEOPLE because someone burned their dang book. They are a backwards and insane folk and to apologize to them does nothing but degrade OUR country. I note taht in all Obama's apologizing he never once mentioned the now-FOUR DEAD US SOLDIERS at the hands of these maniacs.
Here's the sort of apology that should be given: http://youtu.be/E4cL9gQsnWE
These people will never receive the key to the kingdom as long as they continue their sinful ways. There are three things Jesus hates in this world right now abortion, gays, and Muslims.
God bless
Really? What about intolerance, ignorance, and malice?
Bree I will pray for your soul. You are probably te kind of woman who has abortion after abortion or lives in sin with another woman. I wish you all the best in hell, well miss you in heaven!
All man made.
You are crazy.
SUE ELLEN: you are such a hypocrit if you love your Jesus so much how come you condem abortion ,gays or Muslims? you need come back to school! Your Jesus don't hate not one! your Jesus is no the one people knows he is love,and compassion,something you need to learn! You don't know who in your family maybe had many abortions,how many will marry a Muslim and how many of your boys will became a GAY! you are the typical example of Bigotry,and Madness and Hypocrisy! in the same time you name Jesus and you say GOD BLESS you how come you said that? I am confused you are you are EVIL! and I am agnostic intead of being a hypocrit like you! but I am telling you GOD BLESS you SUE ELLEN you are evil and I hope you don't rotten in HELL ,because Hell is full of people like you,just think about your words I belive in KARMA and is coming to you soon! Please not name not more Jesus or God it should beNOT in your vocabulary ...GOD BLESS YOU!
Maria you seem to be coming from a place of anger. I have had people in my family who have had abortions and one of my sons is gay and you know what? I cut them out of my life because if we couldn't be together in heaven then why prolong our time together on earth? I hope that to speak to someone about your rage issues Maria and any issues of guilt about your sins that have led you to this place.
"Our Commander in Chief was courageous to apologize in an election year for an outrageous violation of American values that happened on his watch."
Yeah, it takes courage to kiss ass in an election year.
How did Europe ever manage to colonize Africa with wooden shoes?
"An act that could just as well be classified in the same category as the four Marines who were videotaped urinating on dead Taliban fighters."
And what do we call it when "artists" take a crucifix bearing the image of Jesus Christ and dunk it in a glass of urine? We call it "art." What do we call it when every single day the name of Jesus Christ is blasphemed on national airwaves across this country? We call it "free broadcast." And what do we call it when MSNBC rewrites scripture to refer to Almighty God as a "goddess"?
I've been saying this for years. The more Jupiter strays from its orbit and the more the oligarchical muslim underground continues to subliminally influence our purchasing habits things like this are going to keep happening. The answers are out there you just have to read between the lines, use numerology as your key, and refrain from listening to the radio in your shower!
I am Agnostic ,how the Christians and the Cathloics will feel if someone burn all the bibles? We should respect any Religion boks in the world ,Quran should not be burned not only for respect but because we will not start another WAR!
I don't know, do they kill everyone around them? I say we should go back in time when we colonized they whole world. Either we rule or we are ruled. I hope you are ready to convert or have your head chopped off, by those who you protect so.
I pray for your soul Maria that you do not believe in the kingdom and will never glimpse paradise. You probably weren't raised right. Judging by your name you're probably Mexican and your parents came here illegally and had to struggle. That's not your fault but they should have learned you right. Maybe the above scenario is not the case but maybe lesbianism or living on sin with a man led you to be agnostic. Like I said I pray for your soul.
God bless
SUE ELLEN first at all pleaseeeee don't pray for me I don't want God put me in hell with you lol lol ,second I am not Mexican and not illegal if I was from Mexico I will be proud too why not? that is another thing I just learn form you low small mentallity you are also a RACIST! the list is going long about you....you don't know who I am ,but i know about you I know you are a BIGOT a HYPOCRIT and probably a lesbian trying to came out of the closet LOL LOL you don't know me and my kids went to the best schools in this Country and one of them went to the war to keep you sorry ass safe ......and Ihope you rott in hell! you should be banned form this site !
OH...I forgot I speak different languages ,English,French,Italian,and Spanish (not Mexican) I am not going to read your replies,it is wasting my precious time ,.Jesus loves you ....I don't!
Maria once again you need to control your anger but I guess you can't expect much more out of a heathen. I hope you didn't raise your children with your same lack of values. I'll still continue to pray for you and that you see the light.
Also sorry for thinking you are Mexican I forgot that there are numerous countries south of our border.
God bless!
Maria you need to leave SueEllen alone! She is obviously a strong Christian woman!
You go SueEllen wave yo Jesus flag!
Who knows why the books were in the burn pile, anybody ever ask who put them there??? Taliban shot defenseless women as sport in the stadium under the guise of justice! Burning a book is a big deal??? Please! The Taliban and their murdering brothers can go straight to hell! I hope all their virgins have the clap!
Have to agree. The bigger question is why burn ANY books in the first place?
Because they contained coded messages by terrorists trying to pass along info to other terrorists.
Big 10-4
Now that they finished burning books, when do they set fire to their cities and towns for killing our men?
Forgiveness. Dot period end. That's all I ask of both sides. Is forgiveness taught in Islam; it is a tenet of Christianity. There are a lot of apologies being thrown out, but what about forgiveness? Apologies means nothing without it.
This act shows the immorality of an immoral Chrisitan nation. Without being diplomatic, this is probably the softest statement any educated and sane person (regardless of his/her faith) can give about Christianity after reading this news.
After killing more than 100,000 innocent civilians during the last ten years of war in Afghanistan (as confirmed by both the US government and the United Nations), more acts of immorality are being committed.
The bigger questions is What are the American values of tolerance and respect ? And where do they exist ?
Are US troops out there to promote American values or destroy American values ?
Are we creating friends in the world or enemies ? Will creating more enemies make America safer ?
The souls of George Washington and Abraham Licoln are crying today.
Yes, they cry that we have become so weak !
Well put. Was looking for a person of sanity comment. Wish everyone realized this point.
Thinker? Sounds more like someone who is brain dead and lives in a world of make-believe. Your post could be the most misinformed, hateful post I've ever seen. Feel free to move to a country that is so good to its people if you hate America so damn much. Syria, Iran, Venezuela, Bosnia, Somalia, you'd fit in fine with your views there. And, go to hell on your way.
This women is a far-left tool. She needs to be stopped now, before it's to late.
If the prisoners were in fact writing secret messages to one another, it seems to me, they were desecrating their own holy book by using it as an "encoder", rather than for its intended purpose!! They were the ones who desecrated those particular books, and thereby set the example for how little reverence those particular books should be afforded!!!
The author really should have conferred with Obama before writing this piece, otherwise, she would have known that muslims destroy their Qarans when they have been written in. It's the proper way to dispose of them in their culture. All muslims know this.
Wow this couldn't be written anyone more of a hippy than Ms. Stanger.
Why is everything America's fault? Your car breaks down and some how it's America's fault. Frustrating.
How about showing some remorse to the men and women who were killed because of some uncivilized crooks that decided that taking multiple human lives is appropriate action against burning a book?...and sadly, they're not done. I never see any words of concern or respect for our country or our troops.
Just because people are uneducated doesn't make their natural response to kill. I mean there are many people in the states are uneducated, but they don't make bombs and kill people when they get upset over something.
I think we should hand over Washington D.C. for burning those books. Don't you agree Libs?
Ah yes please let's have more narratives that excuse the Afghan people and Muslims from the daily murder and mayhem perpitrated in the name of Islam. Yes, yes it is all the USA and our evil suppression of speech that is to blame here. CNN is owned by Islamic placating appologists bent on a constant narrative: Islam is the victim when they kill others. CNN you are encouraging Muslims to remain in their infantile and erratic state. You excuse and placate every Muslim atrocity twisting your narratives away from truth and toward Islamic lies that have been told for centuries.
Climate change is cyclical.
Let me understand this, we just chastised this nut preacher from Florida because the was threatening to burn the Qur'an, then the US military turns around does just that, and in their face............WOW! amazing........Now what is wrong with this picture???????????
She obviously doesn't know what she is talking about. When the enemy is putting messages in books and using them to communicate both inside and outside a prison, what should be done with the books?
This was not simply burning of books as this clueless opinion writer believes. Do your homework before showing your ignorance next time.
Maybe they will forgive us please please do, if we hand over Washington D.C. and all the liberals too. Please don't hurt us big bad middle easterners. Bigger than Hitler and the Emperor combined. What world do we live in today? Are we in a time warp or what?
But it's one of our oldest traditions.
When Europe colonized the middle east they set up courts and tried the criminals and stayed and ruled for 100's of years. We are accused today of being imperialists of which we are not, we freed these people. So, lets go back and be what we are accused of being and remove the oil and stay for 500 years and set up court again. That will fix the deficits etc.
Lolz y they so mad yo? Nuttin else 2 do in the dessert?
This is what happens when you elect a neighborhood activist to president.
To the Editor, Why should you publish these matter.
"U.S. service members were following orders to burn the Qurans and other reading materials" - this statement makes it clear, the burning was not a mistake and it was not unintentional. Burning book is wrong. Culturally it's moronic to burn anyone's holy book. The action smacks with everything ugly about the US. To burn the books in front of an Afghan official was the height of arrogance and deeply offensive. While I certainly do NOT condone the subsequent killings, what did we expect? After 10 year in country, don't US soldiers know better? President Obama was right to apologize for such idiocy.
do believe that sometimes i see any action as an excuse for protests, perhaps some frustration is there. totally agree that someone on the military side should have been more culturally aware of what this might have provoked. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THE APOLOGY . who does it hurt? i hear the republican candidates screaming about it, but then when asked what they would have done, one indicated he would have just said it was a mistake and move on - uh, by saying it was a mistake it can be construed that this is an apology. also, perhaps there was a thought that if an apology was issued it would calm the afghans down. i wish americans would get over this "we are so much better than anyone else, we don't need to apologize for mistakes made" rhetroic. everybody makes mistakes (even the military and the government), i do think there would be riots in the areas of our country where, if the bible was burned, there would be violent protests - go figure!
We can't burn them but they can scribble all over them? Hypocrites!
I suspect people had thought more about this before they did it, but it is possible that since burning the American flag (in a particular way) is considered an honorable way to destroy old, worn out flags, someone simply didn't realize that burning the Koran would be viewed as desecration. Clearly there needs to be a way to destroy old Koran's that have inappropriate writing and terrorists' messages in them. We should have looked into this more thoroughly before burning them, but I suspect it was a matter of someone just not thinking or checking. Clearly, an apology was appropriate. We are not seeking to offend Muslims, and if we made this mistake, an apology is the right and proper thing to do.
I completely agree with the writer. Gingrich’s criticism of Obama for apologizing does not even deserve a comment. Gingrich and others like him are the reason why we are in this mess today. I understand America’s superiority which is undoubtedly well deserved, but sometimes I start question the concept whenever I hear people like Gingrich and I ask myself: Are those the real Americans who made this country the superpower of the world in less than 300 years? I don’t have an answer...
Respect must be reciprocal or it means nothing – and that's what gets my goat on this issue. The Muslim clerics and political leaders who denounce the inadvertent burning of the Koran as barbaric are, certainly on the Sunni side, the very same people allied with the Taliban leadership who in 2001 deliberately turned their tanks, rocket launchers and dynamite on the Bamiyan Buddhist statues in Afghanistan. I recall no Muslim outrage at this sacriligious act, no outcry of 'this is wrong and someone must be killed to pay for it." So no reciprocity there. Nor respect for other religions. And we grovel in abject apology at their feet without ever naming them for what they so often are. Intolerant, aggressive bigots who wilfully and openly despise other religions but will have your head – literally – if you dare insult theirs.
How would any of us feel if a visitor in our home destroyed something we valued, even if by accident. The least we would expect is an apology, an expression of regret. In apologizing for the accidental burning of the Koran by our people in someone else's home country, Obama did what any decent person should do. Unfortunately, an apology was not enough in this case, the offense was too great to be forgotten so easily. If someone destroys something valuable, it is also normal to expect that he will offer to replace it. Suppose that we replaced it 100,000 times over, sending that many copies of the Koran to Afghanistan. That would demonstrate our regret in a substantial way and also show our respect for the culture of our hosts. Perhaps it would defuse the current crisis and allow everyone to get back to fighting the real enemy, which is not the common people of Afghanistan.
What amazes me is the absolute ignorance (lack of knowledge) of history and facts (WW I and WW II to start) and the absolute acceptance of anything that is counter-culture to the very foundation of the United States of America, which in 200 years became one of the world Super Powers. Regardless, I must have missed the blog whereby Stanger condemned the US forces for burning Bibles in Afganistan, which I doubt she did. How about an apology for 9/11? Under Islam there is a prohibition against Idolotry. Yet, the riots and acts bespeak Idolitry. I hear about tolerence in the Muslim world, yet they kill Christians, Jews, Hindus, or anyone else, including each other. Where is the condemnation for Iran for a Christian about to sentenced to death? How about a condemnation for those that burn the American Flag? For those that Hate the USA, they did the right thing as it touched the ground – Thank you. If you claim citezenshipt: Here is pardox: You burn a symbol that gives you the right to do so? You want freedom, yet you are unwilling to extend it.
This author rails against the book burning while telling us the good reason why the military did so. This is a such a typical blind liberal reaction; wallow in emotion and assume guilt rather than weigh the facts and exercise reason.
the author of this peice is stupid. The books were not burned as anti islam, they were not burned for anti freedom, they were burned because they had a ton of them, what should they do, pay to store them, the is stupid. Any muslem upset about it should be lit on fire themselves. I hate newt, but I agree with him that Obama cowtowing to the arabs is BS. They should make it policy to burn the koran automatically (in front of the prisoner) if one is taken from a prisoner.
i think the soldiers involve in burning books have lost their mission, cuz even if they had to do it, i think doing it silently would have been the best option but in front of Afghans whom they are occupying their territory makes it more provocative, i think it is not just the burning but the manner in which it was carried out, i think it was more provocative and disrepute those fighting for peace, for i think they've instead incited violence and further the hate, and i also think Americans do not feel the pains of the Afghans cuz they are not the one's being occupied, i can imagine how hurtful the 9/11 attack was on the Americans, then just imagine America is being control by a foreign force who disregard your values. it is true u need to "protect' like in Africa we say u don't teach a child LOVE by inciting VIOLENCE, i think all those who supported the move are not good teachers to the young Americans, who are peace lovers i will end by asking that some one should please DEFINE JUSTICE in the context of international relations
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I would like to personally say you are welcome to all those who have the freedom to vocalize your thoughts and opinions. I will not agree or disagree with any of you because it is your right (paid by the blood of the soldiers) to have these opinions. I only ask you give these young men and women from all races, backgrounds and religions, who joined the military for reasons of their own, some to finish school, some to learn a trade, some to get out of a bad situation, the benefit of the doubt. After 15 years in the military I know there are those who may not have the education and understanding to be as enlightened as their critics but they work hard doing a job no one else wants to do. They work in a controversial detention facility, away from their families for up to a year at a time and ask nothing from those at home except for a little courtesy and respect. It saddens me to see that everyone is quick to assume these were malicious soldiers whose sole intent was to offend a nation and cause a international incident just because they did not go to college.
There is a possibility all intel/evidence was photographed, scanned and collected negating the need to maintain the Books. There is the possibility the Books were set aside in a cardboard box not readily identifiable or separated well enough from the rest destined for destruction. It is possible the soldiers who collected the boxes or bags inadvertently collected those separated and had no reason to check the contents before they added it to burn pile. Now that may or may not have happened but i do think we owe it to these kids to give them the benefit of the doubt before we crucify them in order to advance our own opinions.
Thanks for your time
Ps. If there are grammar or spelling mistakes I apologize to you and my professors at Georgetown, I am typing in the wee hours after a rocket attack here in Kandahar, AFG and I am kind of tired.
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