By Fareed Zakaria, CNN
At King's College Hospital in London, Dr. Nigel Heaton performs a liver transplant surgery - with a live donor. A young man is giving part of his liver to his younger brother. The liver is cut in half, with one part for the younger brother and the other part staying in the donor.
As Dr. Heaton says, "The liver’s a remarkable organ. It’s made up of eight segments, so you can take pieces of the liver, and it’ll function perfectly well. The transplant costs tens of thousands of dollars, but under Britain's National Health Service (NHS), the patient doesn't pay a thing.
Heaton continues, "When patients come to us, we only evaluate them from the point of view of their need. Do they need a liver transplant? The cost never comes into it. As a surgeon, I love that because it means the focus is on the care of that I can deliver."
Dr. Clair Gerada, the chair of Britain's Royal College of General Practitioners says:
"Nobody pays a doctor’s bill with the NHS. People will go their entire life without paying a single upfront cost. Our health service is fair. It means that irrespective of what you afford, irrespective of your illness, you will be able to access health care."
Compare that to the U.S., where an estimated 137,000 people died over seven years because they were uninsured. Of course, the Brits do pay for their health care in another way - with taxes. their sales tax is a whopping 20% and income taxes are as high as 50%.
All of that money feeds a health care behemoth. The NHS is Europe's largest employer, with well over 1 million people on the payroll. So you'd think it would be inefficient.
T.R. Reid, a former overseas bureau chief with The Washington Post toured the world's health care systems for his recent book, The Healing of America. Reid says:
"That seems sensible, right? The private sector can do things more efficiently? It doesn't work in health care. The least efficient payers in the world are the American private insurance companies. They have administrative costs of 20 to 30%. That's a 30% tax on every dollar you spend on health care. Britain is totally socialized medicine [and its] administrative costs [are] 5%. Canada is private doctors and public payers - 6% administrative costs. So it turns out, for some reason in health care, governments are doing this more efficiently than our private sector."
Why is that? I explore this question and more in depth in "Global Lessons: The GPS Road Map for Saving Health Care," a GPS special, which will debut on Sunday, March 18, at 8:00pm and 11:00pm ET & PT on CNN/U.S. It will air on CNN International on Saturday, March 24 at 9:00pm ET. My companion article for TIME will be in the edition that hits newsstands on Friday, March 17.
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Yeap. In fact, did you know that Currently, many insurance companies do not allow adult children to remain on their parents' plan once they reach 19. Companies cannot do that any more. Search onilne for "Penny Health" and you can insure your kids if you are in the same boat.
You need to check you facts there is a Federal Law that allows you to can now add or keep your children on your health insurance policy until they turn 26 years old. Within certain criteria.
http://www.healthcare.gov/law/features/choices/young-adult-coverage/index.html
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/columnist/block/2010-05-18-yourmoney18_ST_N.htm
In Scandinavia the health-care system is more like in Britain, but the services and standard are much better. In Central Europe, each individual has to pay for his/her insurance premium, which goes up every year.
Dr. Nigel Heaton at King's College Hospital in London, who did the liver transplant, didn't say how long the patient had to wait for his surgerg appointment!!!!
Too bad we have to pay for 26-year-old "kids" just because some moron thought that was fair.
Ivan, it is not required for parents to pay for a 26 year old's (or under) health insurance the law is "allowing them to be under it." FYI it is fair because of this recession a job is hard to come by. Thus it helps ease the transition.
Sorry Ivan I meant that comment for MShine
MShine What do you mean "we have to pay"? Premiums are paid for these people the same as for any other insured. That's what the insurance system is about. Amazing how much ignorance and nastiness there is in the health care debates. Also amazing how many people in this supposedly "Christian" nation have nothing but contempt and hatred for their fellow human beings. No health care? No problem.
In Australia, national healthcare does work. An example of this is the cost of a heart ablation. In the US the cost is over 25,000 dollars but in the cost in Australia the cost is 3,000 dollars. In Australia, you can obtain private health insurance and go to private hospitals and use private doctors. The option is up to the patient. If the patient chooses public, then there is no cost to the patient. The quality of care is as good or better than in the US. It is irresponsible for the US not to have national healthcare just for the reduction of the cost of medicine. Under this system if the patient wants to go private he can, but everyone has full medical care no matter of income. It is greed of the healthcare industry whose brainwashing of the public actually hurts the people of the US. .
von. People in the UK wait until there is a liver available just like in the US. When the tissue match is right the transplant is done. In the US you had better hang onto your health insurance ( almost impossible if you have lost your job due to ill health) If by the time you get a tissue match in the Us you have lost your health insurance, you die.
Only one of the reasons why, people in the US die younger.
I havehad treatment in the UKfor things you really need the response is fast and theyre is not wait. In some cases the response time is better than in the US Where the wait comes in is in elective surgeries. In the US that is balanced by mose insurance companies do not cover the elective surgery at all. So you just don't get it.
If you want to jump to the head of the line in the UK you get private insurance, much less expensive than in the US and you get a level of care unheard of in the US. Private room restaurant meals, private nurses, much more like a spa than a hospital. The system is better, much better.
MShine, your an idiot. I have two children; 21 and 22 years old What is this "WE are paying for their health insurance." I continue to pay my expensive health care premium for 2 dependents from my payroll deduction. People have got to wake up. The Insurance companies are making money on the parents for insuing thier children until they are 26 years old (who have the lowest health costs) by collecting premiums from their parents.
Turkey has been reconstructing its health and security system for a while. It has become almost 80% more efficient althought the rate of improvement did cause some errors on the duration. Some of the short term changes are trial and error just in any major change. But did you know that a face transplant and an uterus transplant has been done in Turkey; and not in a posh Istanbul hospital but Antalya State Hospital. Turkish doctors and Healthcare personnel are in an uproar because now they have to choose in between running a private well" office?" after their lessons in a university and working full time at their posts. Turkish state doctor salaries are not high. But working in a major state hospital has side benefits like sending some chosen patients to their private offices, the status and off course the free tickets to important congresses.. Previously Working part time in a university hospital and seeing a few patients in a private office was just the desired situation for some doctors.
Most Health Insurance Policies do not realy offer a daily care or a vital care to its insureds. They do not offer dental care or gynaecological care or mental care or they do not offer a lifetime care. They have age limits. The cover they offer in between is like gambling on the roulette. "If" you fall down and break your leg....If you have cancer....If you want to be assured that you are not HIV (but not when you are HIV) And never when you have an aching tooth. And they stop coverage when you most need coverage when you are about 60 or 70. This is not unlike disaster cover, or war cover. However health insurance takes more premiums for less risks. I realy never saw the reason of private health care insurance other than a kind of socialy enforced insecurity if there is a functioning state social security. Insurance is a significant ancient sector. Do not blame Zacaria for trying to understand it globally. After all this is the Global Square. It means Global Interaction
everyone knows that Zakaria is a fraud and phoney expert on anything that helps Obama, he is his paid stooge, a scoundrel at his best .
You always have to wonder about posts that start with "Everybody knows...." Do you have evidence that Obama is paying Zakaria? Is there something specific in the article you'd like to dispute?
Archie! Stop being a plant, a racist, or whatever is that drives you away from reality! Get help!
Can you dispute what he is reporting?
Archie you are singing to the choir. Agree.
It's too bad, I like CNN coverage and the cast generally. But this Fareed guy is not viable. Like an Obama parrot. How is that enlightening? It's not at all.
Zero credibility, ALL Fareed's writings are left propaganda.
Obamacare is INDISPUTABLY bad. No one disagrees private healthcare now is dysfunctional in some ways. But government action is bad. Look at all the other government programs, starting with Post Office and Social Security.
This is of course all about taking Capitalism out of the picture, which is indisputably how our country became the leader in the world with on average best quality of life.
Don't worry tho, in November Obama will be out, and all the destructive policies will be dismantled, starting with this heal are bill debackle. Stay tuned. It's in the bag, most of the citizens see it and will vote the sensible people back into the white house. Can't wait, all good.
And it's funny, every doctor I talked to has said the same thing, I'm not the expert, They are.
Healthy? , Stop using the over-used, worn-out word "racist" to describe everyone you don't like.
Archie:
I am sure you are a kind of selfish and racist!
This report may or may not be a paid ad, but I do know that we have the most expensive healthcare in the world, but with one of the worst healthcare records in the industrialised world. The US is NOT the best in this area, and by not accepting this we become resistant to improvement. National health is more efficient, and is driven by the medical professionals, not insurance companies trying to make money by collecting our premiums and denying us care as often as possible.
This isn't a fraudulent claim. However, if I paid nearly 50% tax and 20% sales tax in order to have paid-for health care I would be living on the street and my family would starve...that saves health care costs, too, in the end...
Ron- I dispute it.
therefore your "indisputable" claim is false..
Frankly, it would have been much better if it went to a single payer system.
Archie, why don't you shake your head and at least be constructive.
Hmmm... well not EVERYBODY knows that. But now that you have enlightened me..... yet, I don't feel any smarter now.
Fareed zakaria is a well educated literate man who seems quite capable of making up his own mind. His arguments are reasoned and cogent, amd I don't see him as Obama's stooge. He is a breath of fresh air after all that Republican hot air.
Toronto girl have you ever wondered why your country in no where near as rich and advanced as the US. It started about the same time as the US but is no where near the country the US has become. Do you ever wonder why? Let me give you a clue – it's because it's a country that has embraced socialism and is full of stupid people like you. People that don't think.
nothing more needs to be said. He didn't mention the patients who wallow in their own feces...This is beyond a sham.."You will never, ever pay for anything and the health fairies will provide everyone, everywhere with whatever they want.
I personally hope that Obama forces women to get "universal breast enlargement".
yeah moron he's a stooge..but you're real bright, content to accept the fact that the USA spends 17% of GDP on health care and the average European Union country spends half of that; Canada spends 12%...and people live just as long if not longer in these other countries spending way less per capita...but Fareed doesn't know what he's talking about when he tries to understand that maybe we should try to figure out why we have this so wrong...geez what an idiot you are...
Watching the liberals trying to defend Obama care is the best entertainment so far this year!.... Definitely a two thumbs up! I imparticularly, enjoy listening to them being reduced down to name calling and labeling everyone a racist, because they can't argue or win on the facts. They're in the minority with %72 of the country against them! Maybe, they can make us laugh some more by telling us that the government knows whats best for us! (http://times247.com/articles/gallup-72-percent-find-obamacare-mandate-unlawful)
Are you sure that isnt Archie Bunker? The US has lower life expectancey than any other developed country and that is because our healthcare delivery sysem is antiquated and inadequate. We spend far more for poorer outcomes than any other developed country. It is scandalous that an econimically advance country such as ours does not provide adequate healthcare to all it's citizens, life our most precious gift. That will be changed with the Affordable Care Act, welcome to the 21st century.
You watch FOX news and Rush to much. Zakaria is intelligent "fair and balanced" reporter.
Ron – using the term Obamacare, or words like "indisputably" only exemplifies your stilted, and wholly inacurrate viewpoint. As someone who has lived in both Europe (Netherlands) and Asia (India) for many years, I can say our health care system is both unfair and inefficient. The excuses, and reasons so often provided for maintaining the status quo don't hold up under scrutiny, and we have far too many examples of much better, and more equitable systems to argue that point. And when that becomes clear enough in the context of any discussion or debate, someone will inevitable say they might agree "in principle" with much of what is being said, but that Obama's proposal's aren't the answer, or won't really solve the problem. Or we might hear that quality of care will go down at the expense of providing universal coverage, or some other blatant falsehood soley intended to derail the process, or shift the conversation in another direction. The fact remains our private healthcare system is shameful in the context of the modern world, and all the moreso given our position and standing in the global community. Call it Obamacare, or socialized medicine, or whatever term you think will serve your purpose; the fact remains we need it, and should have had it in place decades ago.
Archie Herman-you are correct! Zakaria is nothing but a constant shill for Obama. Zakaria has only a foreigner's insight into Ameica yet he writes as if he's an authority!! He is wrong on so,so many things. The BHSis a bloated, costly, poorly performing medical system that has wrecked health care in Britain. Britain is losing their best and brightest nurses to the US – I know, I work with many of them. The disastrous stories of health care delayed or denied is not mentioned by Zakaria. The near bankrupt status of the BHS is not mentioned nor is the abject failure of the BHS to provide a leading role in medical research mentioned by Zakaria. Don't be fooled by fools such as Zakaria. If his child needed heart surgery you KNOW where he would go....just like all the other elite liberal lovers of the socialized health systems- its good for the " common folk" but for the elite themselves, they always find a reason why, in their case, the just had to go to the Cleveland Clinic or the Mayo for their care! Hypocrites!!
You just don't want to hear anything that contradicts your preconceived opinion. You'd probably feel better if you just stuck with Fox, which only tells you what you want to hear.
I whole-heartedly reject your entire assertion, and I do believe I belong to the set "everyone."
To Ron: best quality of life? The US has the highest rate of amenable deaths in the western hemisphere! How's that for quality of life? Check the facts, then speak.
How much devilish Archie Herman appears to be !
@concerned. Wow are you out of touch. Canada not wealthy? For a country of 35 million with the second largest land mass in the world filled with oil ( we are your major supplier ), and a myriad of mineral wealth we do pretty good. We are in the G8 and the G20 which are groups of the RICHEST countries in the world. We are constantly rated higher than the U.S. in quality of life and standard of living and yes we DO live longer than you. People like you are frustrating because you fail to see or understand the differences between socilalism and democratic socialism. The fact that you pay taxes for the common good is actually democratic socialism at work.
Postal: 50% is the *highest* income tax rate in the UK. It's what you pay if you're very rich. The income tax rates for lower levels of income are much lower.
Sales tax was at 17.5% for many years. The raise to 20% was nothing much to do with health care; it was a consequence of the economic crash.
Repeating the FÄÜXian talking points, eh.
That's what happens when you can't counter the facts, all you have left is name calling, attacking the messenger not the message, diversionary tactics, etc.
If have verifiable counter arguments, by all means use them, otherwise post your disinformation on FÄÜX NÖISE.
Afterall FÄÜX viewers are less informed than those who watch no news; plus FÄÜX NÖISE won a court case in which the judges decision allows FÄÜX NÖISE to lie.
Oh Archie Bunker, you are so very funny. Try to focus on the message and it's merits instead of broad-brushing the deliverer. The fact is, our system is badly in need of repair and some type of exchanges or a national plan seem to work for other countries regardless of who they have in office.
Concerned: You imbecile! This past year, Canada's per capita GDP exceeded the U.S.'s. in other words, Canada IS richer than the U.S.
Some of the comments posted here astonish me? A number of you need to acquire an education. To Concerned for instance, you make your statements based purely on an unfortunate desire to proclaim your nationalistic patriotism I suppose? Canada has outperformed every other developed nation on the planet since the financial crisis began! ( OECD numbers for economic performance, look it up) The statistics regarding heallth and well being in Canada greatly exceed those in the U.S. Canadians for instance have a life expectancy that is on average 3 years longer than Americans, and the infant mortality rate is significantly lower than that of America. Furthermore, Canada spends on average around $4800 per citizen on healthcare, whereas America spends more than $7500 per citizen with over 40 million citizens receiving no coverage at all! I could go on, but I suspect facts and intelligent debate is not the objective of certain individuals on this comments blog. Perhaps we should be discussing the state of the American education system instead? Park your ideology and patriotism for a moment, and do some research. The world has many examples of very successful nation states that provide excellent healthcare for their citizens without bankrupting the national treasury. In the end, it's a question of what kind of country you want. Consider also that the US is the only developed nation on Earth without some kind of universal or government funded healthcare. Food for thought.
You tell 'em Griff97. Ever since moving to the Unintelligent States of America, our family has had to fight constantly to keep our I.Q.s at least constant. If I wasn't being paid so well by their tax dollars, and I could no longer take advantage of their ridiculous tax breaks, I'd be back in the Great White North in a heartbeat. At least I'll have a fat pension to spend there in my retirement.
I hope Fareed Zakaria is not Obama's paid stooge. Obama would be paying him with my taxes. We know our medical system is not the most efficient, but that is no excuse to take over the entire medical system by politicians. Australia may have a med system worth looking at. Anyone who believe Obama took over the medical system to help us, really needs to wake up. Oh, Fareed Zakaria, on Iran, if you think we should wait until one or two nuts get atomic weapons to destroy hundreds of thousands of people, you are the one who needs help. We are not talking about running versus walking.
I find all his editorials tainted and devoted to helping Obama. What exactly is so wrong with people dying? It's a natural event and not a bad thing given that liberals complain about over population and green house problems. Anyone who died did so at their doing. Maybe they wanted to die...
His opinion pieces are candy for the kool-aid drinkers, but he is a jack of all trades – master of none. Way to go CNN. I guess he works cheap.
.... and that's why Canadian and British citizens (among many others) come here for health care.
D U U H H
D D U U H H
D D U U HHHH
D D U U H H
D D U U H H
D D UUUU H H
Look, it's dave the Foxbot! Keep drinking the kool-aid of lies, dave. Have you heard of medical tourism? A heck of a lot more Americans seek medical care outside of the U.S. than Canadians and British do! You guys get the odd rich Canuck who want to selfishly jump a queue. Even rarer, a provincial health department will pay for a Canadian's health treatment in the U.S. However, for the average Canadian or Brit to decide voluntarily to go to the U.S. for health care? Only in your most perturbed dreams!
its getting to the point where you cant read a single CNN article without these uneducated racist morons trolling for attention. Its the sad price of democracy-you have to tolerate idiots like "Archie" and "concerned" as part of the price of freedom.
Other than health car professionals and pharmacetical executives, almost all agree that the US system of health care is no where near as effecient as the rest of the world. Its run for profit, focuses on defensive medical practives to avoid litigation, and targets research dollars not on cures, but on generating dependancy on the drugs. The system needs an over view, but sadly no one has the power or ability to make it happen.
Archie Herman–or Bunker?
But this string of replies is from Archie's comment the Zakaria is a fraud. All is writings are left left left, he doesnt seem to be able to think for himself, aka a lot of the other CNN writers. Based on that he is probably told what to write or say. His "opinions" are not even worth reading except to be humoured by the liberal followers who worship him here in the comments. So sad....the SHEEP must follow anything that moves.
Archie, I am not sure that "everybody knows" but I certainly agree that Fareed is a Trojan Horse sent here by aliens (or some human force) to destroy America along with Obama. There is wonderful healthcare outside of the USA. But it is easy to say Scandinavia has great healthcare when their population is a fraction of the USA. Same for the UK. The USA was not founded on the principle of being heavily taxed to pay for GOVT programs. That is why people FLED England to the USA...to be free of heavy taxes and big government. Fareed grew up in a land of big government.
I do get an email from Obama every day telling me how I should indoctrinate the people I come in contact with. Maybe you'll be happier if you sign up too!
What a silly comment.
Was that Archie Bunker?
Ron: it susprises me you are SO bad at logic. If physicians oppose to the health care reform, it must be bad for patients, right? Wrong! A system that woudl reduce health care margins would be OPPOSED by physicians. I'm not saying they don't care about patients, but when something threatens your living, you tend to oppose it.
Also, physicians are experts in health, not necessarily on health financials.
The US health care system is broken. When I hear people complain about the reform, they NEVER complain about any specific change, they just say "this is communism" (probably without even knowing what communism is). The individual mandate is the only thing they sometimes address, ignoring the fact that when someone chooses not to be insured and then has an accident that requires emergency care, we all end up paying for it. But for some reason, you are OK with that policy, which is to the far left of anything that the new law mandates.
I don't get it.
Shawn Wright, MD".....
You make out like you're an authority on Britian's health service yet you repeatedly call it the BHS.
In 60 years i have never once heard that term. It is always.....always..... the NHS, the National Health
Service. It is not possible you could study Britain's NHS and make such a silly mistake.
Are you in fact what you purport to be? Or a fake?.
Cheeryble.
So, 'Everyone knows' do they? I don't know that, and I sure as hell am not going to take your irrational outburst as anything more than just that.
T.R. Reid – how do you come up with your numbers. I know for fact that Britain has broken down their NHS taxes into many small amounts so people like you can claim ridiculous #’s. How can gov costs be lower when gov workers in US make 77k while avg person makes 45K. Both private & gov have expensive building but gov has highly unionized labor whereas private does not. So I highly doubt that gov admin costs will be lower.
Govt. Worker do not make $77K a year! Stop lying! Different govt. Jobs, have different pay scales! Just quit it!
Please provide your numbers, then.
It cheaper to have a single pay, in Canada's case each provincial gov't, because they billing is streamlined and does not require the amount people to go through claims.
quit, jimm, & get a clue, in the 2010 Britain election, the #1 issue was, you guessed it, Health Care and after the election they whacked 500,000 jobs and massive amounts of money and care. If their system is sooooo much better then why are they having problems with costs. You are right again, all that happened was the middleman was changed from one greedy group to another. Now if you get the public union labor out of the equation i would consider NHS as being a viable & cost effective
the government worker makes more than private sector is a worn out spin job.
Government employees are not typically low end jobs. Government does not have McDonald's cashier jobs. Those bring the private numbers way down. More government jobs require university- which has higher average wages.
Andrew – I agree with you to a very small point but when it comes to being HC middleman, those will not require highly skilled positions. Facts are there is nothing complicated about collecting money and paying invoices which is what Ins and Obcare does. A few smart workers to set it up but that is it. The underlying problem is public unions will force upon the taxpayers or its customers over qualified people so as they can make more money. This is a common practice in teaching for it does not require a 4yr degree to teach k-6. So whom will government hire? I am betting on highly paid people that are over qualified for the position we the taxpayers will be stuck with higher costs then there should be. This is something the ins companies would not allow. But both systems are not the best, I think we need something different.
Dr. Clair Gerada- You state lies. How can someone with 7+yrs of education fail so badly? "Nobody pays a doctor’s bill with the NHS” – lie, unless the doctors work for free. You moron the payment method is via taxes & you know it. “no upfront costs” another lie. Just like private ins, premiums or money is paid today for a future problem. I am not against national HC, especially since doctors make 10x my income making impossible for me to afford their services. My only hope is I don’t get sick or Obcare pays them ½ of today’s rates. But is that really going to happen – NO , so I just become taxed to death
Sccl,
The different,e is they are not paying a for profit middle man! JEEZ!
If government run health care is superior, someone must have forgotten to tell that to all the Canadians who come to the US for health procedures. Someone should inform them that healthcare in the US is inferior to Canada's!
Jorge!
again your misleading the people with lies! 99.9% of Canadians get healthcare in Canada! So the one woman that Cain and Palin sought after for three months is the only idiot youre using as your argument for keeping the status quo! You're a fuk'n nut job!
Canadian helth care is amazing...Ive seen it first hand several times.......dont let the libs and obama fool you...
Do you now how many from the U.S. come to Canada for care because they have no insurance and the cost is cheaper than what they would pay back home? Canadians live longer and are healthier than people in the U.S. That should tell you something.
get a clue – not for profit does not necessarily mean lower cost. The workers could all be making more then their peers at a for profit with an end result of same or even higher costs. They could be lower too. And yes gov workers make much more then the avg citizen worker.
Yes it does!
"not for profit" means the insurance company isn't going to get 30% of your healthcare cost for providing absolutely ze3ro services!
enough – I like how everyone for NHS uses the 30% ins cost then adds for nothing, IL mandates no more then 14% profit which is something that could be tried before starting another massive gov social program. As for ins doing nothing is a lie and gov run HC would do Exactly the same duties as Ins Co. We all laugh at the $600 true hammer story and some of us think somehow it will be different with other gov agencies. Like I sad before, I might be for NHS only if the workers are not unionized. We all should know how unions screw their employers and public workers screw the taxpayer, the employer.
http://blog.heritage.org/2010/02/09/the-canadian-patients%E2%80%99-remedy-for-health-care-go-to-america/
@Jorge
Our sysem is far from perfect, but one thing that does work with a public system is that you have removed PROFIT from the equation. Healthcare is far more interested in breaking even than paying a VP's fat salary, or dividends to shareholders.
And what do you say to the hundreds of Americans who cross our border to get prescriptions filled because they can't afford it at home?
Archieman,
you have no idea what youre talking about. Insurance companies are just a middle man, providing absolutely no service what so ever, yet they are amount the most profitable business in the country. I know youre no genius, but it doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Get rid of th3 middle man and healthcare for everyone will be cheaper. You ignorant right winged, conservative pig! Stop stealing from the American individual! What an insurance plant!
It doesn’t take a genius to figure that Gov is also a middleman with the same high cost. The HC medical groups are now large enough that I would prefer to pay them direct like an HSA and bypass gov & ins companies, there would need to be laws to transfer the savings to another group if you move. Or bring back HSA’s w/o taxing them would give the users the ability to shop around for doctor/facility costs. We are entrusted with our money to purchase cars, homes, food, etc so why not let us handle choosing doctors. Force them to state basic prices and let the decision making go back the consumer and not some bureaucrat or Insurance man.
Well no-one can argue with crazy! But im going to give it a shot anyway!
Govt. Insurance would be a non profit organization, insurance companies are all about profit! So much so they are among the most profitable companies in the world. up there with the oil, and pharma companies. Yet they provide absolutely no service what so ever, except for STEALING money from people in need of healthcare! And if you think they dont pick and choose what they will cover and what they will not cover, I will have to ask you to come out from under your rock! And no one is trying to tell you what doctors you can or can't see except for insurance companies. Its people like you spreading false information and trying to scare the public into keeping the status quo. You are so full of false information it makes you a poison to society. why do you think every civilized country in the world is getting rid of health insurance companies and going to a single payer system? Its a shame that a country as small as Cuba has better healthcare than the great U.S. They live longer than we do, they have an extremely low infant de*ath rate compare to us. Get away from fox news lies! And educate yourself with truth! That way you could get the mental health treatment you so desperately need!
Actually, you are wrong. Fraud and improper payment under Medicare is rampant! It exceeds any cost of what insurance companies take in. Also, malpractice plays a major part in healthcare costs!!!
I love how people conveniently ignore the failures of government run health care around the world!
Hey "doesn't take a genius", you can't measure average lifespans (or infant mortality) as a measure of a healthcare system. Different countries measure the average lifespan differently. Some don't take murder and accident victims into account. Also, you can't fault a healthcare system for people's lifestyle choices!!!!!
Jorge, no matter how you try to spin it youre wrong!
If you want to get rid of Medicare, then a single payer insurance system will do exactly that!
And stop trolling! Old azz Republican from the 1940's!
Here's a link that provides some idea of the profitability of various industries –
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/performers/industries/profits/
There's other information out there that is generally consistent with these results. Health insurance companies, in general, make very little profit. The link above shows 2.2% for 2008. Pharmaceutical sales, medical equipment etc. are where the real money is at. Just an FYI.
doesnt take a genius – And you think government is not stealing from you, yes they are. From the greedy top officials right down to the greedy public union worker. Want proof of your failing socialized HC, talk to people on Medicare on how they are being denied tests, care and choice. Private/public are all the same – thieves. Americans better think about what they are getting into. Care that we take for granted is performed at home over there. Some care is fast while other has a very long wait time. But I ask you why was it their #1 issue in major 2010 elections and why did they cut so many workers and amount of care if their system is so much better. Sounds to me like they are having the same problems as over here, so why not try something different. There was a lot of things to try before a massive social program was implemented. Have you seen the cost projections beyond 10yrs, price tax shoots up to 1.73trillion
sccl: In a single-payer system there is a single insurer with one set of forms, one set of rules, one set of codes, and so on. They pay all the bills. This is far, far more efficient than having dozens of different major insurance companies offering 20,000 managed care plans around the country, with a mountain of administration costs because of the complexity of billing, businesses negotiating health care plans with health insurance companies (something that doesn't happen in single-payer systems), hundreds of billing clerks in large hospitals, providers filling out similar forms and paperwork for multiple insurance companies, and so on. A few years ago it was estimated we were spending $400 billion annually just on administering health insurance. Countries with single-payer systems have much lower administrative costs. It shouldn't take a genius to figure out that you can't really understand these issues without spending time studying them, but apparently it does.
How about limiting profits of medical insurance profits to no more than 15 p.c of the insurance premiums they charge ? It may be that super. rich who can pay high premiums will be sought after by isurance companies and common people will be taken care of by charities, municipal state or national government.
John,
"Health insurance companies, in general, make very little profit. The link above shows 2.2% for 2008."
Health insurance companies do add a huge cost to the healthcare system. The fact that they make such a small profit in the process makes it worse. Keep in mind too that multiple insurers create huge costs for doctors that are passed on to the patient. I took my child to the doctor in London a few years ago. Two doctors had one person working at the front desk. The doctor my child saw didn't have any assistant. Unlike in the US where you sit in a room and wait for the doctor, we walked into the doctor's office and he did all of the exam himself. I was told that this is the norm in the UK. My pediatrician in the US has three people on staff. Two at the front desk. And one assistant who starts the exam. So, one doctor with 3 staff members versus 2 doctors with 1 staff member. It's clear that the US system is going to cost much more. Insurance and running doctor's offices as a private business are big reasons why doctor's here need a lot more staff to provide more inefficient care.
When you mix a life and death issue with marketing of more added value you only get cosmetics and real healing in long term. Thats the essence of trade. Which I believe does not belong in matters concerning total devotion. British health system- although it seldomly makes mistakes- is about the balance. They do not give you medicine without making sure that you will not be harmed of it and off course they account for every penny they spend. I experienced the same system in Turkey when I suffered a broken elbow which ment some of my arm would be irrevokably limited. 2 Private Global hospitals offered to operate me the day after for about 9000 TL. I chose the training and research hospital on bones named "Baltalimanı" in Istanbul". Frankly my room (I shared with 12 other ladies) were not so posh and the doctors did not have time to hold my hand and reasure me but they made an excelent job out of my elbow with 8 or 12 fractures. And I paid only 1000 TL. They were all so ready to check me out in the second day because there were so many others in need.
British health systems rarely makes mistakes ? SO the filth, feces and dead patients are part of the plan?That's why the British National Health Service recently made the pathetic promise to reduce wait times for hospital care to four months [http://tinyurl.com/yugc5u].
The wait to see dentists is so long that some Brits pull their own teeth. Dental tools: pliers and vodka [http://tinyurl.com/6aux9].
One hospital tried to save money by not changing bed sheets every day. British papers report that instead of washing them, nurses were encouraged to just turn them over [http://tinyurl.com/35te7q].
Government rationing of health care in Canada is why when Karen Jepp was about to give birth to quadruplets last month, she was told that all the neonatal units she could go to in Canada were too crowded. She flew to Montana to have the babies.
"People line up for care; some of them die. That's what happens," Canadian doctor David Gratzer, author of The Cure [http://tinyurl.com/35d4t8], told "20/20" [http://abcnews.go.com/2020]. Gratzer thought the Canadian system was great until he started treating patients. "The more time I spent in the Canadian system, the more I came across people waiting. … You want to see your neurologist because of your stress headache? No problem! You just have to wait six months. You want an MRI? No problem! Free as the air! You just gotta wait six months."
Captain Correct, I also had an wrist fructure operation in Kingston Hospital back in 1991. As a Turk always going to the most well known Profs and Hospitals in Turkey Kingston Hospital changed my point of view about health care. They asked me health questions that was never asked to me before by any of the Turkish Prof.Dr. before they wrote me a receipt for almost 350 USD. One of the questions was my family health history. And they refused to give me a painkiller before all the tests were completed. After waiting my turn on operation table for 48 hours (without water or food or pain killer) by wrist was set to full function. I did benefit from British Health System and learned from it. It is a "no nonsense and 100% guarantee" system as far as physical illnesses are concerned. But it is equally farsighted and advanced in mental health. You have to apply a tight fiscal control to enable this. People benefiting from it may not find it sufficient, since they experienced no other systems to compare. Try giving the health sector a free market, and see where you end up.
Another worthless aricle by the socialist Z. Only an organization like CNN would even publish his garbage. Let's see – I'm suppose to believe a journalist for a Washington newspaper has done a thorough, intellectual, and thoughtful research job into the effectiveness of private insurance vs government controlled insurance. I'm sure the journalist is an expert in this arena. That is totally ridiculous. SOCIALISM DOES NOT WORK – EVER. This has already been proven. It didn't work in Russia, it didn't work in China, and it won't work in America. Why do you think the Chinese and Russians embraced capitalism? We are already 13 trillion dollars in debt with no end to the spending in sight. The government cannot run anything efficiently. Anyone who believes they can is a complete idiot.
To quote Concerned: Toronto girl have you ever wondered why your country in no where near as rich and advanced as the US. It started about the same time as the US but is no where near the country the US has become. Do you ever wonder why? Let me give you a clue – it's because it's a country that has embraced socialism and is full of stupid people like you. People that don't think.
Before you go around calling other people stupid-maybe you could do a basic google search to see if you actually have your facts straight.; You look kind of stupid when you don't even have your basic facts straight
FACT 1: US was founded in 1776, Canada in 1867, not at the same time as you claim.
FACT 2: Not done as well as the US?? Canada was not hit as hard by the economic downturn in 2011 as other countries globally, including the US. In addition, Canada's tighter controls on the financial sector meant that not a single bail out/ stimulus package was required. In fact, the Europeans and Americans have been studying the strenght of the Canadian financial system to see how it remained resillient.
FACT 3: SInce you are calling us stupid, you may like to know that in terms of Western nations, Canada was second behind Finland for level of Education and Skills in a report over 2011. The US was 16th.
PRETTY GOOD FOR A SOCIALIST COUNTRY, eh???
No, Concerned, YOUR government cannot run anything. Normal governments can. You know, governments that don't spend the equivalent of a medium sized country's GDP on the military, and in the support of multiple illegal wars and 130+ military bases outside their own countries.
I pity the conservative right wing, who try to use the word SOCIALISM whenever and where ever some one whom they don't like tries to make a point. I pity the poor conservative who are trying to live an american dream, but who are constantly fooled by the rich right wings. Fact: American health care system is broken. We should find a way to reduce the cost of medical education in this country and stop paying the doctors such outrageous salary!
It seems, regarding health care, Socialism DOES work in China for Chinese citizens (and visitors). I lived and taught in China for five years. I broke my ankle while walking on the ice. The hospital (they have no private doctors' offices–everyone goes to the hospital) x-rayed my ankle, determined that it was broken, and the doctor put a cast on; two weeks later, he visited my hotel across the street to check on my progress. He didn't charge me BECAUSE I AM AMERICAN. Can you see that happening in the US?
Under President Obama's health care reform, children can now be kept under their parents plan until 26, even if they are not legal dependents of the parent(s). It is the part of the health care reform that has already started, and it's a very good thing b/c many young people, even college graduates, can't find entry levels jobs right now other than hourly ones without benefits like health care. But by the time they reach 26, many have enough job experience in their fields to quality for a full benefit job.
the age limit should be higher than that.
Can you dispute what he is reporting?
____________________________
All GOP posting is like this everywhere on the net.
They always make extremely outrageous claims and can never back them up with facts, and don't even try most of the time.
GOP is intellectually bankrupt, so you know they hate Zakaria with all his stubborn facts.
That is true ONLY if you are still working. If you are retired than you will not be allowed to cover your children by private crooked Health Insurance Companies like Blue Cross and Blue Shield. In fact if you are unlucky get sick the "Blues" pay ZERO. If someone says well it is the fault of the policy that the Corporation brought from the Insurers. My Question is WHO writes the Policy? It is not the Corporation but the Crooked Health Insurance Companies to fatten their ill begotten gains. So much for the so called private health insurance. There are little to Zero oversight by the State Insurance Dept on these private Health Insurance Companies.
I kissed my way up to VP at a health insurance company. Now I take over $500,000 of your health care dollars for NO VALUE ADDED to your health care. And that’s just me. Now think about how many other VPs, Directors, Managers, etc. are at my company alone. Now multiply that by thousands of others at hundreds of other health insurance companies. From 10 to 25% of your health care dollars go towards administration that adds NO VALUE to your health care. But my company’s PAC dollars will continue to fool you little people into thinking that a single payer system will be bad. Little people like you are so easy to fool. Little people also don’t realize that a single payer system is the ONLY system that would allow little people (as an entire country) to negotiate better health care prices. Little people don’t realize that the Medical Cartels already know that. And that is the reason why the Medical Cartels spend so much PAC money from the hospitals and doctors lobbying against a single payer system. Some little people say that a single payer system would cost you little people more. But if that were true, then wouldn’t the hospitals and doctors WANT that extra money? Yes they would. So why do the Medical Cartels lobby against a single payer system? It’s because the Medical Cartels know it would allow little people to negotiate better health care prices. And that’s what the Medical Cartels are afraid of. Period.
But us big wigs at insurance companies, hospitals, and pharmacy companies don’t ever need to worry about health care no matter what it costs. We get our health care paid for one way or another by you little people. And we get the little people that work at our companies to contribute to our PACs. And us big wigs say it’s to protect the little peoples’ jobs. But in reality it would be in the little peoples’ best interest to NOT contribute to the PAC. Again, little people are so easy to be fooled. I won’t ever have to worry about losing my job with so many little people being brain washed by the Medical Cartels’ PAC money. Not only that, the Medical Cartels’ PAC money is used to elect so many republicans that will never allow a single payer system. Republicans have always fought against any meaningful health care reform. But that’s what our Medical Cartels’ PACs pay them for. Politicians can be bought so easily.
Pretty soon the only people that will be able to afford health care is us big wigs. And that’s the way it should be. We don’t want you little people using up the resources when we need them. And once again, I thank you little people for capping my SS tax at the $106,800 level. Now I only pay 1.3% SS tax and you little people pay 6.2%. Also, thank you for extending my tax breaks. I’m using the extra money on my vacation houses.
indeed. but you needn't be so smug.
You may not be, probably are not, a VP as you claim, but damn it, everything else you say is absolutely right.
Then the wad gets put in trust for your heirs to never work a day in their lives[for endless generations],& the media is told to sell hate towards the poor slobs on welfare because we have to support them...
There are some bad side effects of being very rich or very powerful.
You're totlly right. I knew it all 2 months after managing my own health insurance through my employer- by that I mean I realized I get NOTHING, while my insurance company gets THOUSANDS. This is all BS and only little people like majority in US still believe private insuarance is the way to go. No, it is not, not for me. I'm being robbed, every day for fake sense of security.
The Republicans constantly say that private industry is always better than anything the government can run. If this is true, why do they support the military, the largest government run operation in the world. And by the way, the head of the Joint Chief of Staff makes less than 160,000 a year. Now compare that with the CEO of a million person work force and a trillion dollar operation.
Some people think you can't privatize national defense. Others think you can and the Iraq and Afghan wars would have been long over!
Stupid stupid Jorge!
SMDH!
they siphon plenty of money out of here to private contractors. it didn't make the war shorter.
Private insurance does not provide for better care at less cost. I am a female Korea War veteran and have VA health care. It is l00% excellent. I have the care I need, and it is the best care. Identical care through insurance would cost a lot more and I can't imagine that it would be any better. I wish we could figure a way to provide everyone with identical coverage. Perhaps put Medicare contributions being made toward the national coverage. Then everyone in America could have peace of mind. I kept my Medicare coverage, but never use it.
You are so full of it. You're fantasy land rnat shows you are just a Lib looking for places to post to do some "rabble rousing". And for those swallowing your story: no matter who you are you have a brain, don't let manipulative people get you distracted from reality. Do you really believe a VP of a major company spends his time posting on this site? As I said, you have a brain so "use it".
Oh Dougie boy!
Stop being a racist bigot jackazz! Thats what's wrong with our country today. You repubs will not comprise one bit, because your racist ways won't let you get passed the fact that a black man is your president, and not your servant! Stop it already! Its a new day, love your neighbor, be kind to one another, and if you can't look at someone without seeing color, then pluck your eyes out!
Just gotta laugh at your comment "enough". You read my post and feel you just "know" me, huh? I am a "racist jackazz bigot". Well "azzhole", I was 10 years old and handing out voter material for JFK back in 1960. My family were Democrats before your family arrived in this country. But the was Honor in being a Democrat back then. Now that you Libs have taken over the party I am no longer a Democrat. As for "a black man being my president", I got family that is darker than this oreo wanna be. So azzwipe, try judging things on facts not fantasies.
A few giant firms own or control a growing share of medical practice. The winners in the new medical marketplace are determined by financial clout, not medical quality. The result: three or four hospital chains and managed care plans will soon corner the market, leaving physicians and patients with few options. Doctors who don’t fit in with corporate needs will be shut out, regardless of patient needs. you can't argue with that! Because it's true!
A quarter of all Florida hospitals, and has announced plans to move into Massachusetts. In the past year alone the firm has purchased more than a dozen hospitals in Denver and Chicago, closing unprofitable ones and shutting out unprofitable physicians and patients.
In Minnesota, the most mature managed care market, only three or four plans and three or four hospital chains are left. In many rural areas a single plan dominates the market, presenting patients and physicians with a take it or leave-it choice.
Wendell Potter wrote about people like you in his book Deadly Spin. Great Book! My Philly insurer insists health care costs are going up 10% or more per year and raised my rates faithfully for the past two years in a row. My Philly insurer also made 200 million in profits in 2010 and I sent a letter to them challenging the 10% rate increase, using their own 2010 Annual Report, which showed that their medical liability payments by them actually decreased while premium income increased. They also lost 500 of 17,500 subscribers for the individual plan they increased premiums on (if they lose people who need health care, insurers are happier!). Only insure the young and healthy, and price out people who actually need health care! Then their profits go up and shareholders are happy! Who cares about the subscribers? Not the insurance companies. Pay your premiums for decades, then when you turn 50, then they raise your deductible from $500 to $5000, then your premium goes up $2500/year! I now pay $6,500 per year and can't get other insurance (prexisting hip problems from when I was 10 years old). If my premium goes up 10% next year, then I will owe about $7150/year. RIDICULOUS!!!
Yet ironically the Medicare and Medicaid sinlge payer systems are the ones going broke. They are also central to Obamacare as a significant portion of the revene to pay for it comes from cleaning up the fraud. So while you may see the insurance company as adding no value which I'm sure no real executive would suggest, many would at least see that they can run a business without the massive fraudulent payouts that jeopardinze it's very existence. Of course, once healthcare is run by the government it becomes a politicial hot potato and can't be changed. Right now it is crystal clear that Medicare is going broke yet cannot be modified as no politician hoping to get reelected can even consider changing it.
Our private insurance companies making money because number one they are not providing healthcare benefits that are expensive to all of their clients. 2. Healthcare insurance companies raise the rates 10% here. You think Medicare and Medicaid would be financially solvent if they refused to provide benefits that were expensive, and if they raise the taxes 10% a year just pay for it? You see in your narrow mind, private health insurance companies are profitable, but you don't point out that they get to raise their rates whenever they want and they only insure people who they know they can make a profit on. Everyone over 65, i.e. all the ones who are over 65 go on Medicare. So of course Medicare costs more.
I don't believe a word you have written.
Timmy Suckie; ....plain B.S.!
those fries are ready to be served now.
Good thoughts, but tactically you shouldn't keep saying "little people" that way.
It detracts from your post. Keep relating the facts though!
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The success of the insurance industry in labeling healthcare reform as Obama Care and making it a bad word will probably hinder any further progress. At the same time the rest of the industrial world looks at us with amazement at our stupidity. How many people in their fifties in the US are just putting off treatment until they qualify for medicare. Don't touch my medicare, but don't allow the rest of the country to enjoy the same programs. Silly
You could be right about many things, but I believe both systems have flaws. Our current medical system is the one we have the most experience with, just as folks enjoy their NHC systems. We know anything run by the government goes to pot. Obamacare costs have already doubled, the doe's and don't s are still being written, and Sara Palin was right about the 'death panels'. At 72, I understand that I can now get what I pay for. Under Obamacare, a large group of non-medical politicians on a board may feel I am too old for the needed medical treatment. Wish they and I were back in Vietnam.
First, Sarah Palin lied through her teeth about death panels and the mere fact that you bought it should label you as not worth the time it takes for this discussion, but I'll do it anyway. As an American I spent 9 years in the Military (government health care) and the rest of my adult like trying to afford medical insurance. I now live in Canada and am much happier with the system here. The Health Care Industry has done a wonderful job of fooling the vast majority of Americans into believing the State run health care is a bad thing. The Joke's on you. they keep posting record profits while you blindly fight their fight for them.
As a man once said, sheep were made to be sheared....
You've proven yourself to be another stupid old man. Stop getting your facts from Fox News.
Rocket,
"everything goes to pot"?
You know thats just not true! I think youre smoking the pot, and are so fogheaded, you dont realize how ridiculous you sound.
My insurance cost more than my mortgage, and home owners insurance combined!
And anytime I go the doctor, I always have to pay a crazy copay, then the I get billed, because the insurance say things like the procedure cost $1200 and we believe it's only worth $400, so you'll have to pay the doctor an addition $800 out of pocket. Even after deductible has been reached!
These insurance companies are scammers, and they need to be stopped immediately!
Rocket, at 72 years of age, you should definitely have a paid visit with your primary care provider to allow you to talk about what YOU would like to have done when your life is waning. Everyone dies and what is stupid is people of all ages thinking they will live forever and never even thinking of what they prefer when this time comes. Thanks to YOUR lack of planning, now OTHER people will decide what to do with you when you are no longer responsive. They may choose to keep your body alive or allow you to die naturally. Sarah Palin wants us all to live with our heads in the sand like you.
It is not true that "we all know that anything run by the government turns to pot." VA Health Care has not "gone to pot" and is excellent. Medicare has not "gone to pot" and is an excellent bargain. Else, why would people be just anxious waiting til the age they can qualify?
oh, yes we are making such progress as it now exceeds 60% unfavorable, has double in cost (surprise sucker), as insurance options grow scarcer..Yes, great "progress" is being made-and it is only the evil insurance companies that prevent more amazing things under the amazing Community Organizer and visionary Barack "I never had a job and nothing I do seems to work" Obama...
"Free" healthcare is a myth. Something that is free by definition has no value. Public or Private, health insurance incentivizes overconsumption, and over treatment. When anyone can go to a doctor and get treated with little to know out of pocket cost, they will overuse the resource.
Doctor's , afraid of malpractice do too many tests, overprescribe medication and do too many services. Patients, abuse their bodies with too much food and too little exercise and then gey patched back up for "free". We all live longer. End of life care costs are exhorbitant. We spend huge dollars trying to extend lives. We can extend them but with very limited quality of life. However, the government picks up the tab. Basically, we have a If we can do it, we will system. This is what drives healthcare costs.
Healthcare needs to be rationed. How you do it is a matter of political discussion. It currently gets done by who has insurance. The factors that encourage over-treatment have to be reigned in, end of life care needs serious public discussion, and covering everyone needs to be a primary goal.
Something that is free, by definition, has no cost. Value is a relative thing.
If you think it is a myth, then it would be a myth to you; However, US is one of the rare power countries in the world still using private insurance industry. Also, anything you can prevent abusing in private insurance area, you can do the same with public sector. The question is can we defeat the lobby of the private insurance companies to come up with the single health care system like every other countries in the world. With a single public health care system, the business companies would be contribute in a fair and less health care cost for their employee or maybe none at all and that would create more jobs.
"Power countries"? The west is now insolvent because of socialism and the Obama zombies who want to make sure that gas is $10.00 per gallon demand more!!!!! LOL Truly comical if not for the 5 mm humans who will never work again, the trillions spent for nothing, the deindustrialization of the nation. etc. etc.
Air is free and it has great value. Aggressive end-of-life care is very expensive and holds little value. Please learn that value and cost are ideas that are relative to each person.
There some easy ways to make it more efficient. First, is to get the Federal government out of the business of insurance. Medicare and Medicade need to be reformed and then privatized and it will run so much better. Take some federal government regulations out and get the states to regulate the insurance companies if need be.
Second would be allowing tort reforming by having people be allowed to purchase insurance from other states. If these two occur things will go a lot smoother with private insurance. Will it be ever 100% efficient? No it never will be nothing can be that efficient but it can be a lot better than it is now.
Did you even READ this article? Private insurance in the US is painfully, woefully inefficient. Privatizing medicare will raise the current 5% overhead costs to the 30% common to private insurance companies. Put down the right-wing crack pipe for a minute and try to do some simple math. It's really not rocket science, genius.
Yes, down with Paul Ryan's health care Medicare plan (he is proposing it again for the second time–no better the second time around than the first).
Absolutely wrong on both counts, unless your primary interest lies with the profits of the insurers.
The Federal Government is the one that ensures that health care works in this country. The Federal health programs are far more efficient than the ones you would eliminate them for.
Secondly, allowing cross state purchase of health policies will effectively drive out all market participants except the most ruthless. So what you are proscribing is again a race to the bottom. And you are effectively eliminating any kind of state regulation of health insurance.
So your advice leads to complete free reign of ruthless profit-driven market forces in the health care industry, when the evidence is that this is exactly what is wrong.
Health care is not a product or service like others. It is a basic requirement for human survival and for participation in the economy. And it is a universal requirement for all humans without exception. As a health care consumer you are often unable to make certain consumption choices, because you have inherent time and location constraints on your decisions, and because when you are ill, you often cannot make those choices for yourself. All of these are the inherent underlying reasons why health care is a form of social capital and should not be privatized.
Privatizing Health Care WILL NOT be more efficient. That's a myth. The DOD started using private contractors to do what soldiers used to do and a bunch of contractors got very rich in a very short time. Costs trippled. Look at Europe. They spend 5-6% on "Administrative Costs" Canadians spend 6.5%. Both are publically run programs. American private Health Care plans (witch are private) burn up 25-30% of your dollars spent to keep you well. Part of the reason is good ole' American greed. Canadian Doctors don't charge $22000. 00 for a surgical procedure that lasted one hour.
The GOP'ers don't want single pay and will continue to tell you lies why it won't work. The Insurance Lobby pays them so well the Repub's will NEVER change that.
Privatizing anything does nothing to make it more efficient. If you want your healthcare system to work, you must take PROFIT motive out of the equation. Do you really want to pay a salary to a CEO or dividends to stockholders? Why isn't healthcare a right and not a privelege??
All that money going to fat salaries for insurance management could be spent on healthcare itself, not the management of heatlhcare.
Funny, this LIBERAL didn't mention that in America Medicaire has a MINIMUM of 12%, YES 12%, FRAUD RATE. That is the CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE by the CBO. That is 60+ Billion dollars a year wasted...and that is the LOW END of the estimate. GOV"T run programs have NEVER been efficient...for him to say so clearly shows he is a liberal with no common sense.
Also not mentioned was the ins claim being sent to the 3rd world,where the :examiner" knows only the % he gets for denying parts of the claim -he is NOT a medical person...
You don't think fraud is rampant in the private sector when it comes to insurance? Insurance companies aren't too concerned with fraud as long as they can just raise premiums. They can always pass on the costs and do.
Fraud is one more reason to go to a European model of Health Care. Eliminating Doctor pay based on the number of procedures done will eliminate Doctor fraud and Patient fraud will be moot since everyone would be eligible for free health care.
Not to mention that the European model would also eliminate the need for Tort reform, as government employees the Doctors would be subject to Sovereign Immunity and all claims would have to proceed against the Government itself, which can only be sued for reasons and amounts it agrees to be liable for.
Medicare has a 2% adminstration rate compared with 20% for private insurance companies. Medicare for all!
Let's raise sale tax to 20% and income tax to 50% and add VAT on top of that and see how many people get upset.
the rest of the world pays higher income taxes and VAT. They also pay more realistic prices for gas. Why are you above that?
I don't see how you can expect your government to pay down the trillion $ debt if you starve it of revenue.
Is that a justification or an excuse for socialized medicine not working here or in the rest of the world? ...the europeans tried throwing money at their failed health care systems and that didn't work either!
W ith the recent CBO announcement 5 days ago that Obama care will cost $1.76 trillion dollars as opposed to the original $928 billion estimate your point is pretty much mute! Even with profits in our health care sysstem as it exists it is already more efficient than what our out of touch president has on the drawing board! ...this article is rediculous and Fareed Zakaria has no chance at regaining his already lost credibility! ...you can not justify that americans are wrong and big gov't is so how magically correct! The Gallup polls more than indicate what people want and will do come this November! ...you're beating a proverbial dead horse to death in a fit of rage!
Push more PAs, and NPs, into the system and give them autonomy, and let them practice in rural areas, and charge as they see the patients. They are much cheaper, efficient and workable. Produce more generic medicines. market them. o.k, Have all accessible to health Insurance. period. this is what the law kicks in 2014, by state exchanges. If insurance guys charge more then you can go to state exchanges and buy.
PA's and NP's maybe cheaper to hire but you end up paying more in unnecessary tests and treatments. In fact one of the current flaws in this health care system is that because Medicare cuts back on Doctor reimbursements, the average doctor~patient time spent during a clinical visit has gone down. The emphasis is on seeing the most number of patients possible.
I have one doctor and whenever I have to have a test or procedure done I'm always sent to the same hospital (the hospital his group belongs to). Why am I even paying an insurance company? It seems like it would save a lot of money in BS insurance admin costs if I just paid my monthly premium directly to the hospital/group.
You pay premiums to the insurance company so that just in case you are out of town, state, country so that they will pick up some/all of bill. Hospitals and physicians cannot set up insurance plans to cover those issues. Kaiser-Permanente is one model that has set up an insurance plan, dedicated hospitals and a contracted medical group. Due to their size the model does work.
And he thinks socialized medicine is? The federal mandates on private insurance is what makes them expensive and inefficient but you go with Obamacare and you will REALLY see over priced, inefficient, UNDER serviced healthcare. Go to England and get sick to see what your future is under their Socialistic mania.
Actually, it is happening in US with the inefficient health care system that is ran by private companies. The evidence is clear.
Hardly. Premiums have been going through the roof for years before Obama even stepped into the oval office, as have the profit margins with health insurance companies....it used to be 3% in the 80's and now is closer to 30%. That is 30% not going to actual healthcare...that means you are paying 30% more than you should even before the administrative tax....so you are paying 60% more than you should. Also remember that the insurance industry can also price fix. They are allowed to price collude legally...so do not mention that people have a choice because they really don't.
One more thing inn Texas, Governor Perry passed tort reform for insurance companies a number of years ago. A week after the reform passed, premiums went up 25% for most insurers.
Thanks Jheron. I wish people could all wake up and see this! It is ridiculous that people just don't see it. Insurers just spin everything to make everyone thing that health care costs are the reason that premiums go up. In reality, making shareholders happy while getting rid of subscribers who need care is the strategy for health insurance companies to make profits. Insurers say that health care costs are increasing, but people who need health care, have been paying into the system for years, cannot afford their ever-increasing premiums and become uninsured. Insurers lose the high risk subscribers and are left with the young and healthy. But the young and healthy will get older too. When will everyone see what is happening?
Providing Healthy Care is in the business of compassion.
Capitalist is in the business of maximizing profit.
Only a capitalist republican would think that oil and water would mix so well.
I don't know of any doctor going to medical school with an oath that say:
" I shall only provide my noble service for those who can only pay me the most."
Well said!
A few years ago BMJ (British Med Journal) published a study showing that the NHS in UK is less cost effective than Kaiser Permanente in the US. To me that reflects higher efficiency at Kaiser. I do agree that most other private insurance is less efficient!
We need to eliminate insurance companies all together! They are slimey thieves stealing from American citizens!
Kaiser Permanente structure is based on NHS model in UK.
Hardly, Kaiser was a denovo experiment started by Kaiser Steel and associated Kaiser industrial companies in the late 1930's. It had nothing to do with the English system. Kaiser is the non-profit health care system and associate hospitals while the Permanente Medical Group is "non-profit" but pays doctors fairly well and provides benefits that doctors in private practice cannot afford.
You have no idea the difference between public and private hospitals until you've been to both. In Public my family was treated like lab rats to be experimented on. In Private we were constantly watched over and helped by people who treated us like family hoping we would come again.
For this Reason I detest the British Model and would prefer the Canadian one.
I would provide a system like the VA Health Care System for all. Second choice would be Medicare for all.
According to the German police state theorists, a free market has never been able to do what central planning can do.
While Krupp,Farbin & the rest contorlled the govt thru Adoph,they did so without lobbyists ,that is a US twist...
'Irrespective of cost your health care is covered.' That is a blatant lie. Many services are not available through the national health service. If you die while on a waiting list, at least you didn't spend any money. Ineffecient doesn't mean inferior.
You know what inefficient means? If you're the working class, building this country on your back, you're screwed. Great way to run a country. Many services meaning things that are "elective". If you need heart surgery, you don't need to mortgage your house. <- that is rediculous.
Stop perpetuating this myth. Only a tiny few die while on a waiting list in the countries with NHC. Overwhelmingly more die here on waiting lists who have adequate or better than adequate HC insurance.
Health care is always rationed. We can't afford everything for everyone. Do we deny service based on age or waiting list? Or do we deny service based on abiltiy to pay? Every health care system has rationing. It's a question of who you want rationing your care, your government or your wallet?
OK folks, the UK's NHS is the WORLD"S third largest employer. Their tax rate is 50% higher than ours. It only gets worse in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Norway, and Sweden, for starters. Who wants THAT? Single payer more efficient? Who are you kidding? I rest my case.
"Nobody pays a doctor’s bill with the NHS. People will go their entire life without paying a single upfront cost."
What a silly statement. The people with money not only pay for themselves, they pay for the people with no money. Health care isn't free. It's just a question of where the money for it comes from.
It is not silly – it is an outright lie from someone with 7yrs of college education & a professional in the medical field. They should be behind bars for decieving the people with misinformation. The doc do not work for free so the taxes are paying for HC costs. How can people be so guilible. I am not saying NHS is bad but who knows howmuch the costs are with liars like this person.
Yeah but do the republicans have something better to offer? I doubt it because they just don't care about the middle class, the working class and the people at the bottom of the totem pole!
Actually when they were in power with George Bush in the White house they repeatedly tried to abolish SCHIP which have placed millions of children in real jepardy. NICE GUYS!
That's right. As long as they have theirs, they don't care about anybody else.
Problem for insurance companies is they can no longer issue rescissions. BOO HOO HOO!
Health care is always rationed. You can't pay for everything for everybody. The only question is who do you want rationing care. Insurance and your own money or the 'central committee of health care planning in Washington DC. They only ones who will still get everything will be the 'high' ranking politicians and their family.
You identify yourself as a doctor and you took an oath to "First, do no harm." Shame on you. Ration health care... I think you have a G-d Complex, like so many in the health care industry.
God complex? I didn't claim to be rationing health care?
You either don't get my point, or didn't read my post. I'm not rationing health care. In America, health care is rationed by the insurance company and your dollars. In most of the rest of the world, health care is rationed by the government. It is ALWAYS rationed by someone. Who do you want rationing your health care. Your wallet or your government?
The thing that most of you folk don't realize is that a lot of folks in the US already have socialized medicine. Your congressmen have socialized medicine, your military has socialized medicine as do retiree's and the poor. The only ones who don't is the middleclass that work for a living. I suspect you are against socialized public schools too. Lets let everyone buy their own. Be consistent.
In the US, we don't have patients anymore: we have customers–most of whom cannot afford whatever health care products and services they're being duped out of by the insurance mafia.
Actually a large majority of americans can and do pay for their insurance with no problems. The minority is what we are trying to deal with and the biggest mistake the government can make is legislating to the minority.
How many of those insured are actually under insured? How much time and money is wasted in the billing of the services. How many forms to you have to fill out? How many people have to go through the hassle of changing insurers when they get a different job. How many can't get full insurance because of pre – existing conditions? In Canada non of the above applies. Everyone is covered. No hassle when you change jobs...you do nothing. No major forms to fill out to insurance companies ( except for some private insurance that some people have to cover extras ). It's a GREAT system.
"Canada is private doctors and public payers – 6% administrative costs. So it turns out, for some reason in health care, governments are doing this more efficiently than our private sector."
For some reason? The reasons are obvious. Less paperwork. Streamlined single payer system is cheaper to run. In B.C. in Canada we get a Carecard that looks like a credit card. I can walk into any clinic or hospital produce my card and get my care without being billed. It takes two seconds for the receptionist to swipe or type in you number and your done. Great system.
Absolutely right (for a change) Mr. Zakaria. One of the greatest evils of our government is requiring private insurance for your health, your car, your profession etc. If the government (or some branch of it) requires insurance, then the government should administer the program, not turn it over to a company for profit. This not only wastes peoples money and acts as a regressive tax but increases the field for graft and bribery of public officials.
The Canadian system is a much better comparison for the USA to look to.
Move to Canada.
For those of you in Canada that are trying to promote that system you should talk to the thousands of Canadians that run south of the border to get quality care out of their own pocket.
I understand there needs to be a saftey net for those that are not insured, but when you legislate to the minority you make the greatest mistake possible. Private insurance should always be the first answer.
What do you know about the Canadian health insurance? I have close friends and family that had illnesses ranging from cance to heart issues, and they received the best care in the world. No waiiting for operations, and came out of their issues 100% better. Canada has some of the best doctors in the world and some of the most advanced care and equipment in the world.....dont let obama fool you, Canada has some of the most amazing health care in the world.....do some research next time before you talk.......
Thanks, we think pretty highly of our system too. We know it's not perfect, but we appreciate it every day.
And we have Americans who go to Canada, Mexico, Thailand, India, and other countries for health care. Even paying for first class airfare, the health care is cheaper in other countries than here. So if Canadians coming here means their process is bad, then Americans going elsewhere means our system is bad.
Not sure why anyone would think private insurers are more efficient. It's the biggest myth out there being perpetrated by the Republicans. You've got huge management costs earning millions in salary and bonus, profits for investors must be high to compete with other investments, and multiple private companies means health providers have to deal with multiple payers with different forms and rules that make the providers less efficient.
people are actually still listening to that imbecile zakaria?
Yea, but as you can see from some of the posts, it's mostly other idiots!
I don't see how anyone can "shop" for the best healthcare choices, its not as if we've ever had 3 kidney surgeries before choosing which is of best value?! There is no way we can make informed choices like we would when buying a washing machine. The system doesn't make sense and is one of the greatest evils of America and its imploding.
Hey, Fareed Zakaria–consider this:
The amount of money I save by NOT paying 20% sales tax and NOT paying 50% income tax would allow me to afford a liver transplant when _I_ wanted it? Plus, self pay eliminates the administrative costs of insurance. Then you're not subsidizing everyone else, including illegals.
Yakobi!
Self pay eliminates "administrative cost"
Do you even read what youre saying!
Let me teach you the rule of basic walking techniques. Just put one foot in front of the other!
How do you even get on the internet with your level of ignorance?
Betty you are obviously one of the "really ignorant" people on this board.
How about the thousands of people that have to wait years for elective surgeries,Hernias, Gallbladers and others, that they can not wait any longer and eventually they come to this country from Canada or England for surgery, with their countries of origen refusing to pay for their medical care?
Often, when Canadians get specialized treatments in top notch US facilities, such as the Mayo Clinic, they are already pre-approved for coverage by their provincial governments before they even cross the border. Yes we have wait lines here based on priority care. Doesn't mean that if you are willing to front some of the costs yourself, the government won't help you out if you want to got somewhere else. They realize the sooner someone regains their health the better it is for everyone
I do not think that is the experience in our hospital m,you may want to take a poll
Call me crazy but I'll take my chances with the private sector insurance any day given the history of Federally run programs.
You think government can provide health care more efficiently than private sources? Have you read or studied PPACA? You think hiring a million more affirmative action bureaucrats is going to make health care delivery more efficient? Last question: do you want a government job or are you just dim, or both?
It works for many other industrialized countries in the world that end up with better outcomes and for far less $$$$$
Has this taken into account the fact that Americans in general are unhealthy anyways? If we just look at total cost, America would rank low no matter what system we used. We need a large study comparing cost by age, healthiness, type of disease, etc. before we can begin to analyze health insurance rationally.
The USA has a higher infant mortality rate than Cuba. Yes, that Cuba, that spends less than 1/10th per caipta than do Americans.
Sometimes I envy people in countries that don't have a Wall Street for the simple fact that their focus is more on their fellow man the some form of currency. Less greed and less selfishness.....and many aren't even Christians.
Amen
Not only are we paying for higher admin fees (30 cents for every dollar we spend?); we are indirectly charged for all the free health care people get in emergency rooms and some of us pay for others' negotiated rates. National health care would be such a better option. Anyone who needs health care would get it. Now why would anyone ever believe that is a bad thing? (Well, maybe the corporate robbers in the medical industry.)
Wow, is this where all the whiners come to post?
The only thing exceptional about healthcare in the USA is how much we spend and of how few of us benefit from those thou$an$ and thou$and$ going to our insurance companies
Sure the insurance companies make a profit. That profit comes out of the healthcare system. Besides making a profit, they also have immense bureaucracies where low-level employees make life and death decisions about who can and cannot have a medical procedure.
But in addition to that inefficiency, consider the employees in every doctor's office who do nothing but file insurance claims. The doctor's people should be providing health care, not processing paperwork. Likewise at the hospital where whole departments are devoted to processing insurance paperwork that does not contribute to patent welfare at all.
That is where the inefficiency lies. Get rid of all those middlemen, computerize the system to require a minimum of government employees, and devote the health care system to health care.
Half the people on here against health care reform are not wealthy and they probably have had members of their own family die due to the lack of health care but are too stupid to realize that is what killed them. My mother worked as a single mom that ran her own business (hair stylist) for over 30 years. She worked extremely long hours but never made enough money to be able to afford private insurance. She died of a massive stroke in her early 60s. My sisters inherited the stroke tendency but were able to avoid stroke because of medical care that my mothers hard work and support allowed them to be able to afford. It makes me sick when I hear someone say these people without insurance should get off their @$$3$ and get a good job. My mother worked longer hours and harder than just about anyone I know. Our country is full of people just like her who cant afford private insurance either. Who die well before their time because of this stupidity. Why does being a member of one political party or the other make you blind to the truth. Its easy to see why Mitch McConnell and people like him are against health care reform. Look at how much money they are given for their reelection every year by people who are getting rich while your friends and family are dying.
I agree completely. And my condolences to your family.
I don't write often, but have first hand experience to share.
Married a Canadian and moved here 6 years ago. During that time spent much time in US caring for dieing father and mother.
First, monthly health care cost in British Columbia is $100 for single, $105 for couple and $110 for any size family. No deductable required, simply show your health care card. In California, not nearly as good insurance was $1500 monthly for two.
Second, elderly are not scamed. In the cases of my mother and father each medical procedure was followed by bills, co insurence pay bills and demand scams to pay for nothing. All far to complicated for any 85 year old to follow and understand ( my father had a doctorate, even!) In BC one shows the health care care card going in and NOTHING is ever sent to the patient, not even a paid bill.
Third, yes taxes are higher here, but not nearly so much as the cost of equal medical coverage. Here in Canada people feel that governments duty is to its' people not to companies. The Canadian system does put people with the most serious conditions first ( my family's experiice- heart transplant, cancer and glaucoma ) with noncritcial waiting 1-2 months.
Having seen and experinced both systems I say there is NO comparision, The Canadian system is the hands-down winner – no contest.
I love the country of my birth, and hope this insite will help make it better for those still there.
Jayhawk flown North
Canada is looking pretty good and I love the USA. Common sense has left this country for PC and secular ACLU acadamia run govt.
I live in Toronto and have always taken our healthcare for granted. Except when I hear stories like yours, and others here speaking about not being able to afford proper healthcare. Your country claims to be the most powerful, most advanced etc. I simply do not understand why you allow private health insurance to run your healthcare; eliminate them and you eliminate the profit motive from medical costs.
Healthcare is a right, not a privelege for the moneyed classes. I thought you were all about equality for all etc? Or doesn't that count if you're not well off and sick?
Im sick and tired of all you communist synthesizers coming here and trying to tell us how to run our country! May be our costs are higher, but we get the best care in the world. Anyway, if we can't afford our bill here, we don't have to pay.
Not every province charges a premium. Your quotes on B.C. premium are incorrect. For a single person its $ 64.00 per month, $116.00 for a family of two and $ 128.00 for a family of three or more. Also premiums do not go up when you use your insurance even for major operations.
Yes anyone who has used and see both systems prefers the Canadian one. The comments here about poor care and waiting times or full of propaganda and misinformation it's shocking. People in the U.S. seemed brainwashed by ideology. They scream socialism and communism without even understanding what those are and they irony is that they are the ones blindly following a belief taught to them since childhood that everying in the U.S. is better than anywhere else. It's a sad joke on them really. Just because you pop culture is popular around the world doesn't mean your standard of living is better than somewhere else.
I don't want these quack services. I am already forced to pay for what I refuse to use. The medical profession gets to play with peoples lives and we pay for it. They are going to kill off the human race.
Please let me die in peace, no where near one of these quacks...
Get rid of insurance and pay with chickens and prices will fall.
This is a lot of intellectualized nonsense. Zakaria treats this as if it were a seminar in a university. It's not. A few opinions are stated and not many facts.
What I hear over the years is that many Brits despise the NHS, use private (cash pay) Dr.'s when they have to, and hate the taxes that this system makes necessary.
The problem with medicine in ANY country these days is that it is complex, not well thought out, and a bit chaotic. The biggest driver of problems in the US (and likely other countries) is the fact that to get paid, a provide must provide a diagnosis. Well, sometimes "I don't know" is appropriate. You never hear that because the provider needs to pay their rent. So we get quick and dirty solutions, generally the costlier and far more injurious to the patient to do it this way. There are now so many rules about how to treat patients that very few providers use their brains anymore. The system doesn't allow it.
So "inefficient" is not the relevant term here.
Guns are not the real issue Republicans are concerned about. Neither is abortion. But they know these two issues will get enough votes thrown their way so that they can handle the real thing they are concerned about. Keeping them and people like them rich and getting richer. Health care reform would hurt a lot of millionaires wallets. So would raising taxes on the wealthiest in our country. It makes me sick when they say we cant put a higher tax on the 'job producers' in an economy like we have today. Well the 'job producers' have had their way through all the GW Bush years and where are all the jobs they produced. They probably did make jobs in Indonesia or some place like that. Or more likely didnt make any jobs anywhere. They just invest in funds where they get richer and pay little or no taxes on it. We just about had a second 'Great Depression' after eight years of this. Wake up average Americans. When they say, 'Obama is going to take away your guns during his next four years if he is elected', or 'They will have death panels who will euthanize your Granny if Obama gets four more years and Obamacare isnt repealed' they really mean, 'Vote for me so I can take care of all my millionaire buddies, you morons you, lol' (all the way to the bank)
Zakaria is a joke. Very one sided reporting. It's easy to get people to agree with you when you conveniently ignore simple but inviolable truths.There is absolutely NO such thing as 'free health care'.
Johnny, do you also believe that it is not 'free' to drive on American streets?
The real problem is that health insurance is no longer insurance. The idea is that someone has a insurance policy to protect them from catostrophic loss. Now we try to have health insurance pay for routine care. Imagine what car insurance would look like if we ran it that way. We'd be arguing if car insurance should cover snow tires, brake service or even fuel.
Great point. That is the real problem. Many people now have expectations that every little unusual item or change in their physical condition must be a prelude to accelerated mortality. No wonder why defensive medicine is practiced so heavily. Nothing about recent health care legislation proposes to tackle tort reform.
Bottom line: (1) we overcomsume healthcare services and (2) we sue too much.
Here's my story. My wife died in 2006, from Lung Cancer. She was diagnosed in 2001. We got married AFTER she was diagnosed because I had Health Insurance. Guess what? The Insurance company DENIED to cover any of her "Pre-Existing" Medical issues!
Five years of Chemo and one Surgery later I've lost my house and am nearly insolvent. I still have my job but my credits' trashed because the bills incurred were more than I could make in two lifetimes.
So, don't tell me we have the best Health care in the world, we just have the richest Doctors and Insurance Companies. Oh yeah, the Insurance Industry spent 100 Million last year buying Politicans and guess what? So did the AMA.
I'm sorry to hear this, mostly because if you lived anywhere else you would been able to get care without question. I live in canada, and while our system is not perfect, health care is a right, not a privelege. I would like to think your wife would have gotten better care here.
Fareed we get it, you don't like this country...let it go buddy...we don't need another "why America sucks" article every week
Yes we do. At least until we can do some things right! BTW we've worn out WWII, it's timne we succeed at something else!
I think arguing the free market is the best way to handle health costs is absolute nonsense. Our healthcare system has not been subject to free market controls since the end of WWII and the advent of health insurance. That, in combination with a very well lobbied AMA (limiting the number of medical school slots, we call this a "guild") has led to the hyperinflationary medical costs we now wrestle with. I suspect those of you who fear single payer national heath care are also inclined to think traffic circles are a socialist plot!
Here we go again, it's the same argument every single time. What Zak doesn't tell you is how long this patient waited and how many people die from waiting for healthcare procedures. No, he spins it to say how many people die in America from not having healthcare. Guess what, the numbers are pretty close.
Americans value convenience over everything else. A public healthcare system is not convenient. But regardless, both sides have their positives and negatives. This is a classic case of "the grass is greener on the other side". But, in this case, the grass is the same shade of green, it is just grown with different manure.
Case in point,
Margaret Hutchon.
The claim that our health care costs are the "highest in the world" is not accurate. They may be high, but if a country is required to issue 50% income tax and 20% sales tax to pay for universal care, someone that earns 100k/year pays 50k in taxes, leaving only 50k for all living expenses. If 25k of that is for purchases with 20% sales tax, then they pay another $5,000 in sales tax. In the end, they pay $55k/year to support a system that covers their health care, whether they need it or not. If they took half of that they could pay over $15k/year in a private insurance policy and still come out ahead. Just saying...
I couldn't agree more. Most in America are comparing their current tax rate with what they think they are going to get or pay into HC. The word "free" drives me nuts because it is a lie. EU have to do a lot of at home on their own home care. Then the taxes in socialized HC are very high. Germany has a 10% sales with another 9% adjust sales tax because the first 10% was not enoughm. Most do pay 50+ % in income tax. I don't think many Americans have a clue to what they are getting themselves into. I think we are jumping from one hot frying pan into another. instead lets try to come up with a different solution.
No, Postal. If the *marginal* tax rate for someone making $100,000 was 50%, that person would NOT pay 50,000 in tax. You clearly have no idea how a marginal tax system works; you should correct this error, because you participate in a marginal tax system.
I don't know what Mr.Zakaria is trying to tell Americans. He should tell Americans the ways to fight wars and kill people, I don't know why he is talking about Healthcare. He completely do not understand Americans.
One thing that is always ignored is that the insurance isn't the primary cost of health care. It is the high cost of the procedures. Insurance companies are forced to charge higher rates because the medical procedures they cover are priced beyond control.
Seems like a great solution would be for those who want to pay well over half of their income as taxes and get "free" healthcare should simply move to Britain, since the system is already there, and leave the rest of us alone instead of trying to force their concept of utopia on everyone here. Many of us DON"T want it or we'd have already moved to idyllic Britain.
The only way to reduce crime in USA is through a health insurance system like western Europe. The only reason of very low crime rate in Europe is their extremely good healthcare system, but I know the real Americans will never understand this.
Spoken like an unreal American.
*just busting up laughing hard* Ok I am sorry but your comment is beyond hilarious, unrealistic, and nonsensical to the extreme.
Here's a sad fact:
137000 people have died because the didn't have insurance here in America. We cannot allow this to continue.
We need to get with the program like every other industrialized country and provide Health Care for all of our Citizens (key wor here is "Citizens").
You do realize that dying is a part of life and reality, right?
Would you rather us OVERpopulated, just so everyone can keep living and be insured, and cause many more problems than you can fathom?
The problem is when the term "socialized medicine" is used, everybody freaks out. But, in the US health care system, doctors (I am one) get bonuses based on productivity, the more you do the more you get paid. That is inherently going to lead to doctors doing procedures and treatments and followups they might not otherwise perform if the system was totally based on patient need and outcomes. We also have a very slick marketing machine for our gleaming privatized capitalistic health care system. Want a hover-round as seen on TV? No problem, make the insurance company pay for it. Talk to your doctor and try our newest medication for pain or fatigue or whatever. That stuff supports a huge profit machine for companies that sell similar products in other countries for pennies on the dollar of what they charge in the USA. People don't realize that capitalism is not always the best system (I promise I am not a socialist!) in determining what is in the public interest or fiscally sustainable with a basic need like health care. Every citizen of a country outside of third world expects to have available; health care when you are sick, fairly distributed to all based on need. If you don't believe me, go to a hospital ED and see them turn away someone without insurance who is having an acute heart attack. It doesn't happen.
Medical care in England is far more egalitarian than in the USA. Did we make a mistake in breaking away from them back in 1776? How is it that they do a better job than we of putting democratic ideals into practice??
i think the private insurance companies have a stranglehold on american politicians. They've swallowed the line that public healthcare is 'socialized' medicine, and must be BAAAD. If you repeat it loud enough and often enough it becomes a believable mantra.
Other countries are doing just fine, and while each one is different and may have some kinks in it, for the most part, they seem to be pretty happy with their 'socialized' medicine. They aren't dropping it to PICK UP YOUR SYSTEM.
National healthcare should be exclusively federal through states & even directly through its own chain of hospitals with standard treatment & uniform policy of healthcare. Insurance companies are just third parties making money & taking major portion as profit for investors. Healthcare cannot be profit center like public transportation systems. These two sectors are national necessities & part of national goal & objectives with healthy population.
UK's health care system is better because they ration health care. If you're 88 years old and have a laundry list of health problems you will not get that expensive operation. In the US we get the best possible health care which is great except we pay for it by increasing the national debt. US citizens will never go for health care rationing. We are far too demanding. We will not vote for any measure that pays for our medicare/medicaid by increasing taxes or cutting other gov't. spending. Reducing administrative costs will help but more needs to be done. We already have more debt per capita than Greece, Italy, and Spain. I do not have confidence that the American voter will do anything to change that.
CNN cheerleader of the democratic party. We could have the best single payer system in the world but I doubt it'll ever get offered up. We shouldn't be paying for the little stuff. Insurance should just be about the stuff we can't afford. Keeping cash in the market will keep prices low and why would our government pay for the healthcare that people can afford anyway? We should end medicare as it is and change it over to health insurance for all based on a sliding scale based on your income. End insurance plans that pay for the little stuff because they are taking the market out of the system and making it all very inefficient.
Vigorous, reasoned, and insightful public discourse and debate on the national dilemma of healthcare (and other pressing subjects) is what makes America the best nation in the world and no where has the exemplary character of that debate been more apparent than in the comments on this article! Bravo! THIS is democracy in action! The vicissitudes of the medium notwithstanding, I have never been more proud of my fellow netizens and patriots; the comments by the luminaries and various experts posting here shall serve as a beacon of hope to the rest of the world and shall demonstrate that shining the harsh light of freedom on any issue can (nay must!) result in the societal outcome of maximal righteousness.
Devastating Health Insurance Cost Increases
We just got a notice that the cost of the healthcare coverage that we provide to our employees is increasing by 33% for those of us with the PPO plan and 36% for our employees who selected the cheaper HMO version of our plan. Yet our company has had to hold or reduce our own prices over the last 4 years and even going back into the late 90’s we were lucky if we could even increase our prices 3-4% a year. How do these insurance companies justify these types of increases? Last year was the only year that their increases were even close to within reason and that’s only because they were being challenged. If health insurance premiums increased double or even triple the rate of inflation we’d probably be able to accept it, but the ridiculous annual increase percentages over the past 10-12 years have been devastating to our business and our employees. Something needs to be done.
I didn’t vote for President Obama and I know that the plan that they passed is not ideal, but at least he had the balls to take this issue on. I run a business that employs just over 20 people and neither our company nor our employees can afford this anymore. We’re paying 65% and our employees are paying the balance. About 15 years ago we were paying 100%, then about 10 years ago had to cut it to 75% and then a few years back to 65%. I consider myself an independent voter, but going back to the Reagan days and with the only exception having been Perot, I’ve always voted Republican. So I’m not a lefty, yet I believe that every U.S. Citizen deserves basic healthcare coverage.
Also I find amazing that one thing that is constantly be ignored in these discussions, is the fact that the health care provided to uninsured illegals here in the states is being averaged into our hospital costs and our insurance premiums, which have proportionately increased along with illegal immigration over the last 20 years. These costs are also being passed along to Medicaid and Medicare, which means that not only are they increasing our insurance premiums, but that we’re paying for them again with our tax dollars.
Our existing plan that just increased 33-36% is with United Healthcare (UHC) and we have only been with them for a year. Last year we dropped Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield (HBCBS) because they went up about 29%. When is this going to end?
And Fareed at last reveals his true, socialist colors.
Fareed should spearhead a campaign to move the U.N. to Abu-Dhabi....and he should have his own t.v. studio right next door. courtesy of Al-Jazeerah.
why should i pay huge amount of taxes to help those that don't want to help themselves. Help the children and everyone else should lose weight and take responsibility for themselves. Help those that can't.
While living in England, I found that the government-run healthcare system was enormously difficult to access. "Inefficient" would be a kind word to describe it. It's a bureaucratic beast. I knew many people who left for America or Canada if they had significant health issues because there were years-long waiting times to see a specialist. Those who receive adequate healthcare are still, ultimately, those who can pay for it.
Your wasting your time, people want to believe in the fairy tale of great "free" health care in the UK. I know it doesn't exist, and you do, but most people still have their heads in the sand.
The problem is that people on the right would rather keep status quo than make any change. The problem is that the status quo is costing us BIG money. The problem is that the right would rather tell you how public heathcare DOESN'T work instead of MAKING it work. We know it works in practice, but it won't work in theory. W have sent people to the moon. We can make healthcare work. We just have to force the profiteers to stop making big bucks from it. It works elsewhere, why won't it work here? MAKE it work, don't tell me what can't be done.
Having spent 12 years in Europe and never witnessing this great health care, please tell me where "it works". In many countries you have to go through a jungle of red tape to get an appointment and then wait for months before you actually see someone. People with money in Europe come to the US for health care, it's better and faster.
Thanks for repeating a lot of myths. Please tell us how much time you've invested actually studying health care issues and health care systems.
Yes, even the europeans are laughing at us arrogant americans that think we can make socialized medicine work when the rest of the world couldn't! These dumbed down, doped up despeperate liberals have no examples or information that states the contrary! It's all conjecture! Most of them have never been outside the country to experience foriegn healthcare or out of the safety of mom and dad's basement for that matter! ...the polls still say that the overwhelming majority of US. citizens (72%) are against Obama care!!! ...OMG!(Obama Must Go!)
it doesn't work because they don't want to make the change. the current system is profitable for them, and that's the problem. healthcare should not be profit centered. take away profit motive and you can have a system not unlike Canada or the UK. It isn't free, you pay for it in your taxes, but you do not have to wait for an insurance company to determine if you can get a service or operation or care.
They simply do not want to make the effort.
People have waited and died in the process waiting for these very gov't oriented health care systems to react or make a decision! In most cases you're put on a waiting list! ...I'll take the private sector anyday of the week over Canadian health care!
That is a really cute anecdotal story there. Too bad I am going to have to counter with the name
Margaret Hutchon
Definitely a name worth looking up. *smirks*
A single payer system would be far better, more efficient, more equitable, and cheaper than what we have now. But as good as it might be, it can't do much to treat the sheer stupidity that afflicts many Americans.
I take it your one of the stupid Americans you speak of....
@ UhYeaOK - What a stupid remark. I rest my case.
Well I tell you what Bob, why don't you leave New Jersey, move to the UK and get citizenship there. When you start surrendering half your income to taxes, paying a 20% VAT every time you buy anything, and paying 2x as much for gas due to taxes, let me know what you think of the European model. And you know what, I hope you stay fit and healthy while you're over there (paying all that money and never even using the system, what a pity that would be...) and never have to roll the dice on your wait time... Also, I hope you don't mind total lack of dental care, that's part of the package too!!
Here's an idea, what say you not be so afraid of discussion that you tell people to move to other countries if they don't share your view of things?
Forgive me I'm just recommending a place where he can enjoy his healthcare and actually pay for it, instead of complaining about how bad it is here... If things were so great in Europe I would have no problem with our left wing friends relocating there...
What a load of bull. There is nothing "free" about health care in England, they pay very high taxes to get the "free" health care. Look at the average Brit's mouth, they have the worst dental care in the first world. Health care needs to be fixed there is no argument there, but letting the government run it is the worst thing that can happen to it.
Oh, so you'd rather have 30% of your premiums go for corporate profits to line some executives pocket?
it isn't 'free' in Canada either. You pay for it in your taxes; however because the government runs it, it eliminates GREED AND PROFIT. The government would like the system to break even; it isn't trying to make $$ at our expense. We are not paying a fat salary to a CEO or stock dividends to shareholders.
"There is nothing "free" about health care in England, they pay very high taxes to get the "free" health care."
He said that. Did you not read the article?
No one is suggesting we have government-run health care like they do in the U.K. There are many other models for implementing universal health care.
toronto: You really think there's no GREED in government? Are you that naive? Everyone from the guy writing the legislation, through the bureaucrats setting up the program, the union workers building the buildings and the government doctors supplying healthcare will want a bigger salary. Personally, I'm betting that adds up to a lot more cost and a lot less efficiency...
Health care is fraught with instances where zero-sum gamesmanship is very profitable. So for-profit health care companies spend a tremendous amount of overhead playing zero-sum games. Non-profit government programs that are focused on providing health care and not on making money don't have that problem.
The idea that profit motive only ever motivates efficient value-creating actions is a myth. It's that simple.
As a physician, I can say that private insurance is much more efficient and makes us jump through less hoops if there is a drug or procedure that is off the hospital formulary (list of approved standardized drugs that the hospital requests you use) Medicare and Medicaid are much more stubborn. Our system is fine. Farreed Zakaria is a hack. You would think he would be a better writer for going to such good schools. Clearly he knows very little about the american healthcare system.
You may be a physician, but there is obviously a lot about our health care system you don't know.
I have lived in the UK and used NHS for family care for several years. As the doctor noted, here's a concept for you: if you get sick, they take care of you without doing a wallet check first! Or second! As far as my family's concerned, they did a great job – and in some ways, they provide services you'd NEVER see in the US any more. One evening my two-year-old was running a 105 fever, so we called the local clinic and asked to talk to the on-duty doc. They took a message, and we expected a callback. He showed up at our door 25 minutes later, black bag in hand. No bill afterward, just a followup appointment. And that's just one example – they really do good work over there. So for all you people who are just convinced that there's no other way to run a good system than the way we do it – you really don't know what you're talking about. NHS is an extremely valued organization in the UK, and with good reason.
The cost of care in America has nothing to do with Health Insurance. All costs are derivitaves of the Reasonable and Customary costs established by Medicare that are 30% overinflated due to a lack on action by Congress over the past 10 years. Get educated and stop pointing your finger at private enterprise... as usual, your legislators are to blame.
Devastating Health Insurance Cost Increases
We just got a notice that the cost of the healthcare coverage that we provide to our employees is increasing by 33% for those of us with the PPO plan and 36% for our employees who selected the cheaper HMO version of our plan. Yet our company has had to hold or reduce our own prices over the last 4 years and even going back into the late 90’s we were lucky if we could even increase our prices 3-4% a year. How do these insurance companies justify these types of increases? Last year was the only year that their increases were even close to within reason and that’s only because they were being challenged. If health insurance premiums increased double or even triple the rate of inflation we’d probably be able to accept it, but the ridiculous annual increase percentages over the past 10-12 years have been devastating to our business and our employees. Something needs to be done.
I didn’t vote for President Obama and I know that the plan that they passed is not ideal, but at least he had the balls to take this issue on. I run a business that employs just over 20 people and neither our company nor our employees can afford this anymore. We’re paying 65% and our employees are paying the balance. About 15 years ago we were paying 100%, then about 10 years ago had to cut it to 75% and then a few years back to 65%. I consider myself an independent voter, but going back to the Reagan days and with the only exception having been Perot, I’ve always voted Republican. So I’m not a lefty, yet I believe that every U.S. Citizen deserves basic healthcare coverage.
Also I find amazing that one thing that is constantly be ignored in these discussions, is the fact that the health care provided to uninsured illegals here in the states is being averaged into our hospital costs and our insurance premiums, which have proportionately increased along with illegal immigration over the last 20 years. These costs are also being passed along to Medicaid and Medicare, which means that not only are they increasing our insurance premiums, but that we’re paying for them again with our tax dollars.
Our existing plan that just icreased 33-36% is with United Healthcare (UHC) and we have only been with them for a year. Last year we dropped Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield (NJHBCBS) because they went up about 29%. When is this going to end?
Ask your state representative. Medicare is over 50% of all expenses in this country and controls the cost of care. However, they've postponed mandatory cuts for decades because of lobbies.
Sorry – I meant increased
Zakaria; You're a foolish if you think that gov't is more efficient at health care than the private sector! ...if anything they have proven that they're not efficient with cost over runs and bureaucratic red tape! Medicare and medicaid proves that you're dead wrong! ....and this PROPAGANDA won't help Obama's dilema that he's in with 72% of the country against his health care bill either! ...OMG! (Obama Must Go!)
...the liberals are getting desperate! Nobody believes that the gov't can do anything more efficiently, especially after Obama added more tha 1/2 or $5 trillion dollars to our national deficit in less than 3 years as repoerted by the CBO and the Treasury! ...you can look it up at (federalbudget.com) ...OMG!
Obama didn't add it, he was just president when it happened. Feel free to actually look at how the budget is spent and you'll see what I mean.
Skytag; If I thought that you could actually read a bar graph that was published by your beloved big gov't agencies like the CBO and the Treasury people might pay attention to you Read it and weep, ...you can't blame bond down grades and a devalued dollar on Bush it belongs SOLELY to Obama! ...LOL (federalbudget.com)
(Obama outspent 8 years of G.W. Bush in his first 19 months as president making him the most expensive president in the history of humanity and will spend the equivalent of 3 WWII's before completeing his last year in office of 2012! ...and we thought Bush was bad ... huh!)
You're right, we are giving Obama too much credit here, after all it's not like we've had an actual budget during his presidency. Some of the blame falls on Bush of course, his second term in particular was fiscally reckless to say the least. Some of the blame also falls on the recession which naturally hurts the budget. That said, I'm not sure who you can blame for the trillions wasted on failed stimulus (slowest "recovery" since the Great Depression) and healthcare other than Obama and the Ds in Congress. Of course, if you liberals are allowed to blame Bush for every bad thing that's happened on God's green earth since January of 2001, than I think I'm just going to blame it all on Obama, thanks.
There is a reason why we pay so much for hc and it's basic economics. Any Keynesian will tell you when the government dump tons of money into the economy you will get inflation. Our government puts hundreds of billions into the healthcare sector through Medicare and Medicaid, and the former primarily benefits rich elderly. Consequently, the market naturally experienced inflation and oriented itself towards rich retirees with lots of government money and inelastic demand curves. The results in Europe are similar but there are harder budget constraints, so the costs of health care are lower but the quality, especially for non life-threatening ailments, is lower as well (if you've ever seen the quality of British dental care, for example...). In the UK, the rich can get private insurance, but the middle class has essentially no control over their hc, since taxing and spending decisions are made in London and not in the homes of Brit citizens. In the US, we could drastically improve our system with some modest tort reform to lower costs across the board, while also reforming our hc programs to only help the actual needy (reducing inflation). A public system will reduce quality of care and hurt the freedom of the middle class by removing their ability to choose their own hc services.
Wrong. Don't delude yourself into believing you can understand something as complex as national health care systems with bothering to study them. The U.K. is only one of more than 30 industrialized countries with universal health care, and they aren't known for having the best system. Talking about the U.K. is a complete waste of time, as it's not considered one of the best systems and we'd never adopt a socialized health care system like that.
Sorry for deluding myself, I'm so glad you're so wise and enlightened. I have a basic knowledge of intermediate economics (I'm not fooling myself, I'm no Nobel prize winning economist) but the problem really is obvious. The fact that the sectors of the government with heavy government spending suffer inflation (healthcare and college education) is econ 101, totally predictable. Turning our hc system into a single-payer system would be to replace the current set of problems with another set. In that case you basically create a hc system that resembles the public education system, and I don't think anybody wants that. No you have to address the actual causes of the problem (govt spending) instead of the symptoms (high prices). The govt really is famous for creating problems and then scrambling to try and solve them...
If you look at the graphs we didn't have an inflation problem in healthcare before 1965...
Do you know what "correlation is not causation" means?
Of course I do. If you'd care to provide an alternate hypothesis for why health care rates suddenly started rapidly increasing after 1965 I would be happy to consider it.
Fareed if you think Americans will ever accept European tax rates... Where have you been during the past few decades?
We'll never go for a government-run health care system like the U.K. has, but why it is better to pay $8000 per capita our way versus $4000 in taxes?
Of that $8000, probably $1250 will be wasted in admin costs. Of the $4000 probably $750 will be wasted in admin, $1000 will go to public unions at various stages of the process, $250 will mysteriously disappear never to be seen again, and the rest will provide whatever hc that money can buy. Plus, you will have entirely surrendered your hc choices to government bureaucrats and will be at the mercy of their decision making at it pertains to your hc (overweight? elderly? welcome to the eight month waiting list...) No, I'd rather put in place some straightforward tort reform that should get bipartisan consensus if the democrats weren't totally insane, and try to reign in Medicare/aid which are also part of our overall fiscal problem.
Europe with those tax rates is insolvent...Obama wants to join them but get there faster..He's playing catch up...How's that green energy thingy of his working out?
Dead wrong in so many ways, the european nations with the lowest rates are in trouble, the ones with the highest rates are on the top of the world and untouched by the recession. Greece, Spain, Ireland all had to raise taxes to the roof because their rates were rock bottom.
Well there's one thing everyone can agree on, and that's healthcare definitely has it's problems. But then so does pretty much everything else. Best bet is to be careful and look after yourself.
I agree that we should look out for ourselves! The line,"we're from the government and we're here to help" leaves most americans with a bad taste in their mouths! ...even frightening!
Fareed, In a recent Gallup poll, 72% of the country doesn't support Obama care either ! ....Give it up! ...OMG!(Obama Must Go!) (http://times247.com/articles/gallup-72-percent-find-obamacare-mandate-unlawful)
Are we willing to have a tax hike for genuine medical care for all human beings in America?
Or is America drowning in greed and Social inequalities?
We are only thinking selfishly when we share thoughts of big government. We can not do anything in the hands of the private sectors, the take money and run. Then they sit drinking and gambling our money away because they can. While we the people struggle to pay our medical bills or go untreated because of cost.
We are very stupid to allow this to continue, not allowing our goverment to help us. Taxes to the government for medical care, I vote YES!
You're in the minority with only %21 support! (http://times247.com/articles/gallup-72-percent-find-obamacare-mandate-unlawful)
44% of Americans oppose a repeal of Obamacare. Try again.
mbjer36: You shouldn't make stuff up ! ...care to give us a link or is that info outdated?
mbjrp36; Here's a link from one of you very liberal news agencies (Real Clear Politics) that states swing voters want obama care repealed by a %53 to %40 margin! In Ohio's recent election Obama care went down in flames by a %66 margin! I'm afraid you guys are in trouble on this one! ..try again!(http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2012/02/27/swing_voters_want_obamacare_repealed_274338.html)
The fact is the medical industry including doctors, nurses, hospitals drug companies and everyone and everything connected with the private healthcare has used the propaganda for their personal gain to lie about the government run healthcare. These people make tremendous profits from the misery and sickness of others and do not wish to sacrifice any of their good living or overcharging and abuse. Most all the western nations have some sort of public healthcare and it is most efficient and available to all the people of the nation. The media and the corrupt lobbies with the help of the politicians keeps people uninformed about the facts. All laws are designed for the benefits of most of the people but in this case just a few have been able to fool and corrupt our system. All our people should be able to have access to health care instead of the few rich. There is no reason for health care to be so expensive other then some enriching from the misery of others. This is the greed.
If the government can create a housing bubble and destroy the economy with relaxed lending practices at Fanni & Freddi, it stands to reason that they aren't very efficient at much of anything other than spending money! ...would you care to try and explain why medi-care and medi caid has not been a failure over the years or would you rather not?
So government healthcare is efficient? Name one thing the government does thats efficient? Besides collecting taxes.
Obama and the Democrats are very good at spending money! ...they have the two most expensive congresses (110th and 111th) ever. ...OMG! (Obama Must Go!)
Well said! I totally agree, Ms. Grawe!
Individuals, businesses and governments are bad at health care. It's tough for a person because we feel like we do not have enough knowledge to question health care testing and elisions made by our more expert doctors (This happens with computers often, if we listen to the IT sales representative trying to maximize his company bottom line.)
Its tough for business because running health care operations because of having to practice defensive medicine to prevent trial lawyers from crushing them, if an outcome is not the best achievable.
It's tough for governments because in the end, the taxes take away money from the economy by putting into government operations, which results in economies that contract, since fewer dollars are flowing into them.
Individuals, businesses and governments are bad at healthcare.
I guess that covers everybody.
An acquaintance from GB walks with a permanent limp because he didn't get proper followup physical therapy after he broke his leg and was treated under the British socialist healthcare system.
Of course, with socialist healthcare, Fareed Zakaria's kid would get GREAT healthcare treatment. Your kid would would wind up walking with a limp for the rest of his life.
So why do so many people including world leaders come here for their health care? Plus, you must actually experience British health care to believe it.
Has our dear writer ever had to go to a VA hospital? I have had to and when possible, i use my private insurance to go to the doctor of my choice. Not one in the service of bureaucrats in DC. The VA hospitals around where i live are a good example of government run and managed healthcare. Its awful.
Who says they are?
Yes, they control costs, and that brings down the main cost of health care.......salaries, and overhead.......but that doesn't necessarily bring any efficiency into the system.
If you look at the UK, their system has a number of issues, especially with senior care, and Canada's is not a lot better.
The truth is, though, that as long as health care is profit oriented, it will remain unaffordable to all, through any private system. Only be removing the profit motive from the system, can real savings be achieved. Those will be achieved at the expense of medical professionals, whose salaries will be impacted, of course. Drug prices will absolutely come down, as the government will then control drug prices. Care will have the usual issues, of any government run system, with some people unable to get a doctor's appointment, and with seniors becoming the people, no one cares about.
There are no good solutions. Only solutions which cost less. The one that costs less, still costs everyone a lot, through taxation, of course, which will go through the roof.
TNSTAAFL - Robert Heinlein once wrote: There's No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. People think because it free to them it free. To say no one ever has to pay for heath care in the NHS is not true. Someone else has to pay for it somewhere else. The cost is just redirected into taxes or debt. It shows how little this Doctor and Zakaria understand about the interactions of costs and revenue.
Maybe Mr. Zakaria would set an example by donating the difference between his current tax rate and 50% income + 20% sales tax. This country is $15trillion in the hole and this guy wants to give away yet more stuff to more people? I do not trust our government to do anything more efficiently than the private sector. Our government makes a bloated disaster out of everything it touches
How about combining your physical with TSA airport security? Surely it must be more efficient for only 1 government employee to grab your balls than 2
i wonder who fz sees for his medical needs, how long he was to wait for an appointment or to be seen, and how he reimburses his physicians
The author supports efficient healthcare under the umbrella of inefficient government. His own facts show:
Personal tax: 50%
Government's healthcare administration expense: 5%
= 45% revenue to pay politicians/inefficient government
Seriously? And exactly what agency of what Government is more efficient? This is high order insanity and exactly why modern Democracy will crash and burn.
Of course someone has to pay and that is why we have premiums. Presently, those who don't have insurance still get some care in emergency room or charity and others have to pay. The HRA makes more certain that everyone has insurance and can have access to regular medical care which is cheaper than otherwise.
A government insurance program like Medicare for all would eliminate much of the complications, advertizing, duplicate administrations of the multiple private companies.
the people in congress fighting to kill all gov't run/subsidized healthcare insurance need to first eliminate their own taxpayer-funded health-insurance plan. maybe then we can listen to them about their plans without puking on their hypocrisy.
Making consumer cost comparisons on the basis of simple currency conversions (which is what I assume was done) is likely misleading.
Figures in terms of percent of income for various groups - unskilled, skilled and various professional categories may lead to a completely different view - and, in any event, the correct one.
I fly to Thailand, take a two week vacation on the beach, have my medical and dental needs addressed, and it costs me (including the vacation in a 5 star hotel) 1/3 of what it would nave cost me in America. Plus, the doctors and hospitals are better. Thailand subsidizes both and has installed strict controls to encourage medical vacations. The American health care system is in the process of falling on its own sword of greed.
Why doesn't Zakaria do a storing on cancer screening in Great Britain. The government run healthcare deems simple prostate screening too expensive, thus deaths from prostate cancer are almost 5 times as high as in the US.
Once we give up our right to control our own health care then we have given up our greatest freedom to the government.
My wife's job offers health insurance, which we in Massachusetts are required to have. At $9360 per year, we are gong bankrupt. For that money, over the next 15 years, my son could go to Harvard with no debt, and we could retire. Does everyone here now understand the implications of for-profit healthcare?
By the way, this does not include the $3000 per person, per year deductable. If I or anyone in my family falls ill, it will mean foreclosure and bankruptcy. Which is why I try desperately to ignore my hernia.
I completely agree with this article. I did work for United Health Care. It was terrible how they did disposed patient from urgent psychiatric care even when they were not ready/stable enough for diuscharge since their insurance's coverage was exhausted. Therefore, they informed the hospital(s) they will not cover any further cost for further treatment. Then the patient had to be inapproptriately discharged. So, became a family responsibility even though they had helth insurance was not completely covered . It was terrible and continu the same philosophy that between health and profit the private sector always will go for profit and sacrifice health. This is not acceptable AT ALL!!!!
If the welfare state had the answers than Medicare and Medicaid would have eliminated all of our hc problems. Instead, our healthcare problems seem to have gotten worse since 1970 as gov expenditures have risen. So let's have more gov welfare state!!
And we (U.S.) have the wealthiest health insurance executives in the world.
Maybe someone could explain just what health insurance companies contribute to our health care.
My wife's premium went up 17% this year, and her deductible went from 2,000 to 5,000. And they don't pay for office visits anymore.
Cost in terms of percentage could be misleading. 5% of a larger sum could be a much bigger number of 30% of a smaller sum. What's so difficult to derive the total cost and administrative cost per insured?
Canadian Healthcare has never done me wrong, American healthcare has however failed my Husband. I am a Canadian Citizen and my Husband is an American Citizen, qe married in 2007 and he lives here with me in Canada as a Perminant Resident. I've used the healthcare here many times and in Sept 2010 was diagnosed with Brain Cancer. I than had a malignant tumour removed Oct 21 2010 and am currently in Observation having MRIs every 6 months having just moved from every 3 months to assure no regrowth. Fast and efficiant. I have a team of Oncologists as well as Neurologists,
Neuro Opthalmologist, Endocrinologist amongst others at my fingertips that I could get into at any time without shelling out a dime. My Husband never recieved healthcare when he lived in the US due to not being able to afford it and only saw a Dr while in the Marines. Last yr he had a Full thyroid removal due to a large goiter that had presented itself many years ago, even while in the Corps and no one ever bothered to investigate it. He just this week found he had a severe B12 deficiency that has led to several problems he's experienced his whole life, through a simple blood test he never got in the US because he couldn't afford the upfront fee to go to a Dr and pay for a test. If I had moved to the US with him after we married the odds are I'd be dead right now because we would not have been able to afford all of the treatment that I have recieved in the last 17 months. Healthcare is a RIGHT and not a privilege.
America's system is broken. Fact is many of those who believe they already 'have theirs' see no reason to change at all. The reality however if you are having chest pains and go to your local hospital you are going to have to wait for the person who is having a full blown heart attack if you have insurance or not. The amount of money spent to save the life of a homeless man comes out of your pocket too... but I think many on the right are too dim to understand this reality. They believe like Romney that if you don't care about the poor, they will not be your problem. Equivelent to not caring about the hole in your boat because you have all your attention on the fancy wakeboard tower. This is why there is the push for healthcare mandate which ironically was originally pushed by conservatives over a decade ago. It's about personal responsibiliy.
Profiting off sick people is not what capitalism should be about. Socialized medicine has great efficiencies because when people get sick and show up at the emergency room or at your local doctors office medical professionals take an oath to provide care regardless of people's ability to pay.
There are a lot easier ways to fix healthcare than to socialize it. Also ways that work a lot longer.
We are almost bankrupt, yet gleefully head towards much higher government spending on health care. When my kids (and yours) get fed up with paying our crushing bills and debt that we were too irresponsible to pay when we were working, I will fully support them throwing us out on the curb to starve in the cold.
Finally the truth, as the U.S. health care is business not health care
No it is not "health care": it is "illness repair"! Most of the health "care" dollar goes to what is preventable. Poor diet, poor choices regarding alcohol, recreational drug abuse,tobacco use, etc., and lack of exercise. Most fail to take personal responsibility for their own health, and when it fails, due to expected factors, they expect society to take care of them. Why should society pay for the chronic alcoholic with liver failure to have a liver transplant? It is predictable, and in the end everyone dies of something. American society thinks that death is somebody's fault, mainly the last doctor that treated the patient.
'"Nobody pays a doctor’s bill with the NHS. People will go their entire life without paying a single upfront cost. Our health service is fair. It means that irrespective of what you afford, irrespective of your illness, you will be able to access health care."'.. Need anymore said?
Yes, where do these doctors get paid? Where do the nurses get paid? Who pays for the hospital's costs? Does money grow on trees there and no one is smart enough to realize that paying bills with tree leaves is idiotic??
Or, do they have higher taxes, and an impending budget disaster when their population ages and they can no longer fulfill the promises they made to the elderly? Yes, that sounds a lot more like it.
Also, their healthcare is nowhere near as good as it can be here. But those are details you probably want to ignore to maintain your fanciful illusions.
There should be 4 levels of health insurance
1. Catastrophic Care for accidents etc.
2. Yearly appointments and checks up
3. Perscriptions
4. Acute care
I think the government could have care for all citizens for one of these but could no effectively mange all four. My thought is Insurance for 3 yearly checkups would catch many issues early and reduce cots overall after a few years.
And to add salt to injury...when you sue due to serious injury, the big insurance companies want money back, even
when the injured has not being made whole and never will.
I am now suffering from a chronic condition which has forced me to resign from my job. I need to keep my insurance to take care of my condition. This will cost me nearly $2,000 a month to maintain health insurance. I will have to make a choice, have a place to live or have access to the medical care I need ( and no, I do not qualify for Medicaid, Social Security, Public Assistance, Unemployment, etc.).
Its remarkable how the teatards and their lap dog, the Republican Party, have demonized the idea of effective health care delivery as "evil". The Walter Reed Hospital amputee ward scandal is the ultimate result of "privatized" health care delivery where cutting costs was paramount while pretending to provide health care to horribly wounded American soldiers fresh from Iraq and Afghanistan.
There is no end to the array of benefits modern medical science can evoke if those who can afford the benefits will pay for it... But if the "playing field is level" in medicine, the whole system will begin to run backward, because society would immediately be bankrupted if even existing technology were attempted to be spread equally. It's not fair that I can't afford a Lambrogini (I probably can't even spell it correctly). But that is reality; and I don't expect anyone to give up a luxury car just so I can get a nicer car or a bigger pickup truck. Health care is basically the same thing.
That is the most retarded analogy I have ever heard. Health care is not a luxury you dimwit. It is a basic human right.
You and I have very different definitions of rights.
I don't think you can have a right that requires someone else to do something for you at their own personal expense.
Rights exist when you are alone on a desert island, they are not diminished when you move away from the big city to places where there are fewer people to cover for you.
By your slippery slope definition, eventually, you will believe we all have a right to socialistic care of everything (food is more important than healthcare, so that should be a right. Shelter is also a more basic need, so that should be a right. Educational is one of the most basic requirements to succeed, so that must be a right. And of course, if you don't have a car, you can't really take advantage of any of these others rights, so that needs to be a right. And, how can you stay informed about society and be an informed voter if you don't have a digital TV and internet access. What's left?).
Jack O'Fall
"You and I have very different definitions of rights.
I don't think you can have a right that requires someone else to do something for you at their own personal expense."
You and I certainly do. I am a doctor and I have always believed that in a civilized world, health care is a right, not a privilege. Doctors take an oath to turn no one away, and hospitals can't by law, so the problems remains that it must be paid for somehow. The best way is NOT to have it heaped onto insurance policy holders. If we all paid through taxes more people would see the folly of allowing uncontrolled immigration into the country. This is one reason why we are broke. However, I am telling you that you feel the way you do because you are doing fine and have no compassion for anyone else. But you will want compassion when your number comes up. And I did do 14 years of volunteer work during my career. I'm too old now.
Meemee:
Personal attacks aside, your devotion to helping other is a choice you make, not a mandate forced upon you against your will. That is a big difference. I respect that you made that choice. I strongly encourage everyone to volunteer and try to help out those less fortunate in whatever way they can.
However, that does not mean that to do good you must, at threat of jail time, take money from some and give it to others to pay for their healthcare. At the end of the day, that is what you are advocating.
Again Mr. Zakaria everytime lately that you open your mouth you put both feet on it. If you do not like our Health Care System or think that it is so unfair why do you live in OUR COUNTRY and earn our Capitalist Dollars. Like someone commented How long this person had to wait for that transplant. My wife comes from a country in South America which has Universal Health Care ( OBAMA CARE ) and her mother asked for an appointment with her assigned Primary Doctor for for an audiology exam ( she hears very poorly ) and was given an appointment in 2 years due to the backlog of patients for the same problems. Again before you or the LIBERAL MEDIA open your mouths get informed, and be fair in your comments.
If your mother in law is rich enough she can go for private medical care, otherwise she has to join que in the waiting list to share available resources free or cheap.
30% administrative cost generates more jobs in private sector. This puts more money in people pocket. They spend that money (consumer spending up). They all Pay 35% tax. Darn, Govt in those countries are a Job Killer. Should fire those goverments and recruit American politicians to run those countries. And, Force Young adult to work at when they are 18, cause parents cannot affort them in insurance. We will have more workers, more consumer spending, more tax. China and india figures more education is better. Go figure.... Lets Trash Fareed.
There is a difference between socially productive and beneficial jobs and wasting and harmful jobs.
Typical Obama drone. This guy needs to move back to the country he came from.
That 's India but USA is still most powerful and rich country and he wants to participate with a litttle bit of it by being USA citizen. When China and India become rich and powerful, some Americans would be tempted to go and live in those countries.
There's a gross mistake in this article, someone needs to do their basic research and some remedial math. Medicare and Medicaid Plans run by private insurers are required by law to spend a minimum of 80-85% of every dollar on benefits for their clients. This is called the MLR (Medical Loss Ratio). If they were spending 20-30% on administrative costs no private for-profit company would offer coverage because it would be at very best a break even business. The actual costs are in the 10-12% range.
The last several times Iooked, which admittedly ended a few years ago, the health insurance industry itself had consistenty reported around 14-15% for private health insurance administrative expenses. Not 10-12%.
There is a reason private insurers have higher administrative costs: It's more efficient. Do you think, for even one second, they could make more profit by reducing their administrative overhead, yet they don't. How un profit-driven is that?
Actually, it is efficient. There is lots of fraud and waste in health care.Their adminisrative costs greatly reduce that.
Your argument that it is efficient to make a Cost-adjusted, quality of life judgement on care is farcical, and probably borne out of ignorance. you would defend a system that values less a blind or deaf person than an equal aged person with full sight or hearing (the full sight and hearing has a larger quality adjusted lifespan left). Either that, or you don't pay for surgery to treat blindness and deafness (if they need treating, they must inherently lower ones CAQOL, so a person with un-remedied situations is lower down the priority list.
Also, where is this place where there is actual private health care? I live in the US and it is not here.
You don't know what social medicine is because you have lived here all your life and read stuff prepared to keep you between the lines. If healthcare administration was efficient, it wouldn't cost so much. But guess what; the main problem for all Western nations is that we have so many languages and therefore the need to have translation and legal services to insure of things like privacy and error reduction. The cost of this is astronomical, yet it is never discussed. Nations with socialized medicine are challenged today because they are overwhelmed with immigrants, just as we are here, but in some cases, such as England, worse.
meemee:
In your last rebuttal to me, you claimed to have worked for 17 years helping others. Now, I just believe you are anti-immigrant and all else follows from that.
As it turns out, I was born overseas, have worked for foreign companies, spent a lot of time outside the US and can say with confidence that I have seen more than you have. If you don't understand the basic problems with European healthcare, spend 20 minutes reading up on it, looking at info that disagrees with your basic premise. Then, re-evaluate what you have held onto as your beliefs. You will be a better person for it.
I don't think we'll ever get it right in this country because too many people are making lots of money as it is now. Insurance companies make money by doling out services, not providing them. It is morally and ethically wrong to make money from treating the sick and diseased. This doesn't mean doctors and healthcare providers shouldn't make a good living, they ought to, it's hard, risky work, with lives in your hands. But that managers, middlemen, investor stockholders speculating on how much they can gain from investing in "healthcare provider insurance," is beyond sinful. It's downright inhumane. Health care dollars should be used to pay staff and buy equipment, etc., not get some jerks with business degrees rich. I'm a doctor, but I think it's grotesque to be wealthy colleagues more concerned with their next vacation home and car than how to improve their art and the overall delivery of healthcare in this country.
I work in the business office, for a large physician practice management company. Although I'm now in a billing educator, I started out following up on claims, for commercial health plans. The task is enormous – each of our (over 100) providers has to be individually contracted, with dozens of health networks. Each contract has specific terms as to what, when and how we can bill services.
Each network is a go-between, for providers and (often, several) health insurers. The doctor is guaranteed more patients, and the insurer is guaranteed a set price, for every service they allow to be paid. Each health insurer, in a single network, has its own rules – from billing requirements, to 'medical necessity' criteria, for services. In some cases, (such as with employer-sponsored plans), individual groups have special rules that vary (even from patient to patient), within the same insurer.
The wide variety of rules, and requirements, is complicated, and scan be difficult to work with – however, the inefficiency (in my opinion), is due to a lack of uniformity between the various groups – they're all playing the same game, but not by the same rules. A single payer system would be more efficient, with respect to physician contracting, but it wouldn't necessarily have a positive impact, on any other aspect of our healthcare system.
(Cont. 2/3) CMS is a bohemoth – a horribly inefficient one, at that. Medicare has a national set of rules for payment (known as "NCD's"), which are distributed amongst MAC's (Medicare Administrative Contractors – each has a jurisdiction, to which they administer claims; there are currently 15, but they'll soon being reduced to 10).
MAC's have their own interpretation of the NCD (natl. rules), called LCD's (Local coverage determinations). LCD's only apply, within the MAC's jurisdiction. They don't vary as much, as with commercial plans, but the consequences of confusing the rules, are much steeper: what might be an acceptable billing practice in one jurisdiction, could lead to allegations of fraudulent or improper billing, in another. (Billing requirements for govt. payers are actually built into both the Social Security Act, and the Code of Federal Regulations, so 'not following the rules', is literally, a Federal offense.)
Medicaid is excruciatingly complex – each state's legislature sets a budget for their Medicaid program, and each state's program, makes its own rules. These rules are unique – frequently, they contradict the rules of private plans, and even Medicare. The rules don't always make sense, and change often (sometimes, for no apparent reason).
I doubt too many folks associate "Government", with "efficiency", anymore; and they shouldn't. The scale of inefficiency within CMS, is beyond comprehension. You can see for yourself – just go to their website, http://www.cms.gov, and try to find information on the billing requirements for colonoscopies, in your state. (Or any other topic, really – it doesn't matter; if you're really up for a challenge, try to find the same information, on your state's Medicaid website.)
(Cont. 3/5) You'll find that you're overwhelmed with answers, that are redundant, and unhelpful. Whenever a rule is created, or changed (which happens, at minimum, quarterly), CMS issues a notice, to let everyone know, of the notice they're about to send, regarding the change. They send a different notice to each of the MAC's, and then a simplified version of that notice, to providers (called "MLN Matters" articles). They don't archive old information; they just pile the new stuff on top of it.
The way that they make payments, is even more wasteful. Every year, the OIG (Office of the Inspector General), devotes larges amounts of time and money, trying to track down improper payments. CMS has a 'pay and chase' policy – pay first, ask questions later. That way of doing things, is causing them to hemorrhage money, in erroneous payments for claims, investigative work, and collection of the overpayments (assuming the overpayment is identified, in the first place)....
The advantage to the current system, is that providers have a choice, to not participate with plans that are unreasonable – lately, that includes refusing to participate with CMS. Allowing the government to assert a full monopoly over the nation's health payment system, when they can't even efficiently manage the portion of the population they serve now, would be disasterous.
A better solution, would be revising the rules, to make sure everyone interprets them the same way, and encourage the use of 'medical homes', where a single doctor collaborates with specialty doctors, to ensure that everyone is on the same page, when it comes to diagnosing and treating patients. Single payer systems may work great in Canada, and in European nations, but I don't believe it's feasible, in a country with a government as dysfunctional as our own.
I smell a RAT in the American Health Care Insurance Industry. When DOCTORS become BUSINESSMEN patient care suffers.
Healthcare IS a business, like it or not (albeit, a poorly-designed business). Patient care suffers from a lack of communication between providers, insurers, and patients – patients' pocketbooks suffer from dysfunction, and staunch resistance to change.
Brandi; please, read the Hippocratic Oath. That is what every doctor promises you. There is nothing about business in it.
Why isn't the US up to speed on health care by comparison with almost every other developed nation???
Because our "democracy" is broken.
...., because our system is more cost effective and still works better than theirs does! With the recent CBO report stating that Obama care will now cost $1.76 trillion in the next 10 years as opposed to its original estimate of $928 billion your question is pretty much mute!
Devastating Health Insurance Cost Increases
We just got a notice that the cost of the healthcare coverage that we provide to our employees is increasing by 33% for those of us with the PPO plan and 36% for our employees who selected the cheaper HMO version of our plan. Yet our company has had to hold or reduce our own prices over the last 4 years and even going back into the late 90’s we were lucky if we could even increase our prices 3-4% a year. How do these insurance companies justify these types of increases? Last year was the only year that their increases were even close to within reason and that’s only because they were being challenged. If health insurance premiums increased double or even triple the rate of inflation we’d probably be able to accept it, but the ridiculous annual increase percentages over the past 10-12 years have been devastating to our business and our employees. Something needs to be done.
I didn’t vote for President Obama and I know that the plan that they passed is not ideal, but at least he had the guts to take this issue on. I run a business that employs just over 20 people and neither our company nor our employees can afford this anymore. We’re paying 65% and our employees are paying the balance. About 15 years ago we were paying 100%, then about 10 years ago had to cut it to 75% and then a few years back to 65%. I consider myself an independent voter, but going back to the Reagan days and with the only exception having been Perot, I’ve always voted Republican. So I’m not a lefty, yet I believe that every U.S. Citizen deserves basic healthcare coverage.
Also I find amazing that one thing that is constantly be ignored in these discussions, is the fact that the health care provided to uninsured illegals here in the states is being averaged into our hospital costs and our insurance premiums, which have proportionately increased along with illegal immigration over the last 20 years. These costs are also being passed along to Medicaid and Medicare, which means that not only are they increasing our insurance premiums, but that we’re paying for them again with our tax dollars.
Our existing plan that just increased 33-36% is with United Healthcare (UHC) and we have only been with them for a year. Last year we dropped Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield (HBCBS) because they went up about 29%. When is this going to end?
Sorry to disappoint you, but obamacare will not reduce the cost of health care. Insurance premiums are increasing, in part, because of his mandates. People don't seem to understand that nothing is free.
Anybody who believes that US healthcare works, should try it in another civilized nation. Seriously. You can blame Obama and refuse to give up more taxes all day long, but it is not Obama who is making your future doctors pay $300k for their diploma. Its you, the voter.
I am a disabled Vietnam Era vet, who is eligible to use the VA 100% free and I did for a while, but for the last 18 years I pay for my health insurance at considerable cost, because the VA is so bad, so inefficent, and honestly scary. This is what nationalized health care will be like. Zakaria...it seems every time I see a headline with your name on it, you show yourself to be ignorant of facts, and almost as if you have some agenda, because no one could honestly be this stupid.
Don't worry wait until your republican friends take over and you will be paying even more for the crappy care you have now.
I'll also point out that the split liver transplant referred to in the article was first performed/pioneered in the US – the world leadaer in medical innovation. (At least for now...)
UK health system is really bad. Always huge line, hard to see a doctor, GPs are worthless, long waiting time for surgery. They may be fine for critical patients but for others it is really bad. It is also not free as they cut a large amount from your pay check irrespective of you like it or not. Good deal for unemployed people as it is a soc. Wellfr country.
Do you speak from personal experience or from Fox News/Limbaugh PROPAGANDA? I'm guessing propaganda -
This guy is probably never even visited the UK
It is greed of the healthcare industry whose brainwashing of the public actually hurts the people of the US. .
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In certain areas, the US is dysfunctional. Health care policy is one. Energy policy is another.
slt
Yeah, let's take at how efficient the US Postal Service, Amtrak and other government programs are. They operate at a loss and the postal service has become a dinosaur. Why? Because private industry does it better. This Zakaria is just another obamanaut patsy. TR Reid is an idiot too.
I like the post office. I always get my Netflix DVDs on the exact day that Netflix says they'll be there. I think sending a letter for $.44 is a bargain. I guess under your free-market plan sending a letter to Alaska would cost $44 and sending a DVD would cost four dollars. And the CEO of this new mail service would get $10 million a year because they're raising prices to make mailing a private profit-making business. and the new postal workers would get no health insurance because that's too expensive. Pretty soon illegal immigrants would be delivering the mail, because they'll work for less than every other American. Why does everything have to be for profit? What happened to just do things for the public good.
My father lives in UK. He is 98 years old. He got a cornea transplant 8 days after consltation with a doctor. He has had free chemo shots against his prostate cancer for 15 years – $600 every 12 weeks. My stepmom has emphysema from smoking, and gets house calls from doctor, and a nurse case manager that has kept her almost sympom free for 10 years. I was a British Navy officer in the 1960s and many of my colleagues from then still have their parents alive. The Britsh National Health seems to have worked well for my family and coleagues.
Let me tell you about the Canadians who come into the U.S. because their healthcare system sucks. I want something just like that!
You should tell that to the families of the 20,000-odd people who die every year of treatable ailments in America because they didn't have health insurance.
Then, if they don't quite beat you to death, you'll get to explore our health care system yourself.
I have lived in Canada my whole life. The only people I have ever known to go to the United States for treatment are looking for some experimental or ridiculous treatment, or who have done it for some personal or even political reasons. The total, including the stories I have heard about on television, is four. For the 34 million rest of us – including myself and my family who have had our share of medical challenges – the Canadian healthcare system has been lifesaving and has not left us broke. But with a name like 'nolibtards', I'm sure you're not interested in the facts.
Obviously, you have health insurance paid by your employer or it is subsidized by someone else, if you were a self employed person working and living in the US you be singing a different tune buddy. Health care in this country SUCKS!!!!
and by the way, even though I pay 30% of my monthly income on health insurance I don't have any better service than Canadians or Europeans, I still have to wait 30 to 60 sixty days to get an appointment with a specialist
That is wonderful and I'm happy to hear of their successes.
But this is the US – and we've never done it before. Not sure we all want to bet our lives that it will come out of the chute hitting on all 8 cylinders.
If it happens I hope it does come out purring like a kitten, but it won't, and people will die because of it.
A government subsidy for those unable to afford insurance premiums now is the best move with the least risk, but the one least likely to happen.
You think healthcare is inefficient now, wait till the government runs it. My friend was forced to visit a London hospital when he became ill on a an overseas flight. He spent the first day on a gurney in a closet because the hospital was full. It might be an isolated incident but I doubt it.
This should not be surprising. Market prices are efficient when reflecting changing consumer needs and preferences, but the needs of medicine are dictated by science (or at least, to the extent we should trust them they are dictated by science ...) and so are better determined by panels of experts than by market forces.
When, as in the backward US, health care expenditures are portrayed as being decided by market forces, it invariably means that someone is ripping the system off.
Let me guess... you trust obama or some other beaurocrat to appoint the "experts". I can tell you some people ripping off our health care system: the illegals. And, obama does nothing to stop it. He also sues states that try to enforce immigration laws.
You seriously need to shut the Fox off.
You should try using a more intelligent argument and stop drinking the kool-aid.
Fareed is 100% correct regarding the healthcare system in this country vs. other countries. We can learn so much from so many but we always believe everything in the United States is the best.............everything in this country is not the best. Wake up to reality. Fareed Zakaria is no one's puppet.
Maybe thinghs would get better in the US with a few reforms like downsizing malpractice litigation? TRhe risk of litigation here encourages too much testing and high malpractice premiums. What's the status of malpractice litigation in these other countries?
My daughter is a grad student, 36 years old with a husband also in school, and a family. She is covered under her own student policy. She recently had an appendectomy. In and out in 24 hours, with three small holes in her abdomen. She called it drive-up surgery, heh. The hospital bill...not surgeon, not anesthesiologist, simply hospital bill was over $25k. How the heck can that be possible? This wasn't even critical care, I am scared to death I'll require hospitalization and eat up literally everything I have in a few days.
That's why we have health insurance. Not too difficult to understand , is it?
I agree, private health insurance is not efficient. Your dream that the government will be more efficient is pathetic however.
Everyone in this country has healthcare and There r so many cheap healthcare plans also. NY in fact has healthcare plans that are so cheep it staggers the mind. CDPHP for one... Anyone who dies in America because they didn't get healthcare did so knowingly and chose to die. Not interested in hearing total BS from Fareed the sky is falling Zackeria.
Jack O'Fall
Most would agree with you that free healthcare, free food , free shelter are not rights, but that is not what is being proposed by those who are advocating for a better health care system. Would you not agree that access to affordable health care for all citizens of an advanced democracy like the U.S. should be a right in the same way that access to safe affordable food, shelter,access to affordable,education,transportation, internet and yes even television sets should be?
This article is about efficiency and it's true that the UK model costs less and delivers service to the entire population. The reality about private insurers, is that they are in it for the money, not the patient, so the higher the premiums they charge, the more money they make, all the while limiting the number of procedures performed. Getting rid of private insurance is a good way to make the US healthcare system much more efficient, ideally money should be taken out of the equation, everyone should be able to have the best quality service based on need. Of course there is a cost in terms of taxes, the reality is the services provided aren't free and the people in the field have an expectation to be well compensated. Minimizing the cost of overhead can use that savings to provide care to more people.
More misinformation from those who believe in government healthcare. The statement that insurance companies have 20-30% overhead applies only to individual insurance which covers less than 10% of the US population. The overhead in the "employee benefit" sector, which covers roughly half the population is 10% or less. If overhead is the measure of efficiency in healthcare, that is misguided as well. How about efficiency being measured by healthy outcomes? The private sector excels in delivering healthy outcomes. Once the private sector figures it out, the government payers (Medicare and Medicaid) usually adopt the treatments.
Folks, as so many have mentioned: the US healthcare system is NOT the best in the world. In fact, far from it. I have lived in six different countries ranging from the Middle East to the EU to Canada and the United States. There is no such thing as a perfect country: all have their pros and cons, all have things to love and not to like. People in Lebanon have on average better access to healthcare than US citizens, for example. And, socialized medicine can provide excellent care. It is true that some countries with socialized medicine are basket cases, but they are in the minority. On almost every measure of healthcare quality the US ranks lower than most other countries. Yet we pay the highest cost of any country. This is a disgrace, to say the least, and results in thousands of unneccessary deaths and medical bankruptcies every year. Instead of blindly advocating that everything US is the best in the world, whether it's healthcare, toilets or cars, we need to look at why our system doesn't work, look at what other countries are doing that does work, and take the best practices and implement them here. We can't afford the status quo.
Methinks just because you call the private insurance companies 'private' doesn't mean they have anything to do with free market. We have a mixed private and public system, which needs to be set up intelligently and thoughtfully for it to have a chance to work. The way its been set up has been arbitrarily and politically (the opposite of thoughtfully).
One point to make: how many people have died waiting for kidney and liver transplants? Every one of those is because the government makes it illegal to pay kidney and liver donors. That's the government many people would like to run our healthcare system. No thanks.
The reason private insurance is inefficient because of benefit coverage design( Folks expect all services to be covered), government rate setting through medicare & medicaid( which is political price price setting rather than market set rates & Private payors follow medicare/medicaid rates, patient expectation of non-payment of service ( I deserve the service at no cost to me), private insurance control at state level & private insurance administration ( CEO/ President pay).Private insurance can be made to work if these issues are addressed.
Mr. Zakaria, here's the problem with your analysis of healthcare. You're using statistics and facts. Everyone knows the healthcare system in the United States is based on ideology and misinformation. Good try, though.
I work in the healthcare industry, and consider myself a Democrat, but I disagree with Mr. Zakaria's position on this issue. I can never support the idea of a single-payer, government-run healthcare system, in the U.S. – I've seen how CMS operates. The last thing they need is a fully sanctioned monopoly.
The debate on health care in the US has contributed to global warming. The rest of the developed world have figured this out and socialized medicine produces a better quality of care at a more economic and efficient cost point. Reason in the US, such as that of Zakaria, is most often dealt with invective as witnessed in these comments. It is sad that a country which promised so much "greatness" in the world should have come to this – a land of bitterness and religious rhetoric vs. reason, tolerant debate and respect. Jefferson, Adams, Jay, Madison where are you?
Government corruption is very very efficient in America. Maybe the British have not quite figured out how to get there yet.
When the private sector is allowed to buy Congress, it will be inefficient.
Almost nobody seems to focus on the root cause. The First Amendment needs to go. Corruption is not free speech.
I have wondered why the US hasn't joined other western democracies in providing universal and efficient health care to its citizens. Why haven;t we looked into these models and found the best way to implement health care? One excuse now is that we are broke, but this comes after wasting trillions of borrowed dollars on unnecessary wars. I think it is because we hold on to the myth of individual freedom, and see the national government as more of a threat than a possible good provider. There are exceptions to that myth, of course. We allow social security and medicare for the elderly and disabled, and we rely on the national government to raise armies to defend us on the international scene and to rescue communities from hurricanes, tornadoes and the like. Still we even grumble a lot about these exceptions. They are almost the exceptions that prove the rule. Low taxes, low gas prices, hands off government that's our motto! We tilt too much towards this individual freedom side and don;t allow for the common good, the common security of all our citizens. This leads to the paradox that millions of us are left without security and lack freedom from fear. Another issue is that in the US health care is a business. Everyone tries to make a large profit off it: Private Insurers, Drug Companies, Healthcare providers. Even when the Government is involved as in Medicare and Medicaid it is viewed as just another customer, another source of cash. I don;t know. Is it possible we have reached the limit, the private pot is empty and now we have to start really thinking of efficiency?
Jim, it's because Congress is owned the healthcare industry. Even the head of Johns Hopkins Hospital said that on Maryland PBS. Both parties. John Kerry (D) has received more money from the healthcare industry than any other Congressman and he's never let them down on a vote. When Mitt Romney was running in 2008 and got $1.4M from healthcare in the Spring, he called for an end to regulating the industry. When Obama wanted to pass his health reforms, he had to cut a deal with Billy Tauzin, Big Pharma's #1 lobbyist, to NOT go after the fact Americans pay 50% more for the same prescriptions as anyone else in the world or else Tauzin would have ORDERED enough Congressmen to vote against it. When the GOP Pres. candidates in the last election debated in Baltimore, they said they'd agree to let people order prescriptions from Canada. Of course, notice they didn't say they'd bring the costs down here – they know Canada can only supply a sliver of America.
In USA, does one value access to health care as a 'right' or a 'privilege'? That is where the debate needs to return to. Then one needs to define what is 'health care'? Nothing is less expensive than prevention and early intervention. So, lets see the debate shift back to: is health care a right or a privilege? All other rhetoric is just wide open to misinterpretion and conflict until it is determined that the right to access affordable, sustainable health care is a right....and then from there....and only from there...can one proceed
I don't think it is a right.
YES. IT IS A RIGHT. PRESIDENT OBAMA IN HIS LAST CAMPAIGN ANSWERED CLEARLY TO THIS QUESTION- THAT IT IS A RIGHT.
In Canada the Canada Health Act provides universal coverage under a single payer system to cover all medically necessary care in a hospital or by a physician. The monthly rate in BC where I live is $60.50 for a single person, $109 for a couple and $121 for a family. At these rates no one is bankrupted or loses their home because of medical bills. It is similar to your Medicare system for seniors, but unlike the latter, it is cost sustainable, because of the following differences:
All citizens are enrolled, with certain exceptions such as the military and RCMP. Elected members of Parliament and the civil service are enrolled. No gold plated special plan for them. Everyone – young, old, healthy or infirm pays the same rate. Canadians accept this arrangement as fair and for reasons of self interest. We will all be old and infirm one day and in need of a system that provides affordable health care. A second reason is altruistic – to support a health care system that looks after our aging parents, grandparents or sick siblings who need affordable health care today even though we ourselves may not need it at this time.
The second difference is that the universal publicly administered part of health care is limited to cover only medically necessary hospital care and physician services. It does not cover dental or eye care performed outside of a hospital setting,prescription drugs outside of a hospital, except for retirees and low income persons,cosmetic surgery,out-of-country travel insurance. These are provided by some of the same private health insurance companies that operate in the U.S. This is optional coverage and many companies provide it as a benefit for their employees on a free or shared-cost basis. Freed from the risk and cost of leaving the most expensive part of health care delivery to the public system, these companies compete vigorously for the supplementary health care market and do very well. Yes, we have to pay extra for private insurance to cover dentist bills and glasses, and some prescriptions, but these won't bankrupt us and we are willing to accept the tradeoff.
The third difference is that health care for medically necessary treatment is not rationed, but it is prioritized. This means that a patient with a suspected stroke or aggressive cancer gets treated immediately but someone who needs a knee replacement may have to wait a few months. The decision is made by the hospital medical team and not by an insurance company or government bureaucrat. There is no queue jumping. Medical need and not ability to pay gets you to the front of the line.
I think that the Canadian health care system has been in place for over 40 years. It shows that there is a place for both a publicly administered and privately insured component in health care. I think hat there is an opportunity for the people of the U.S.modify Medicare and to kill two birds with one stone. One, to make Medicare sustainable by enlarging the tent to include all citizens and two to create a universally accessible health care system that provides affordable health care for all.
I don't understand why people keep holding up the Canadian model. Anyone who lives along the border in Maine or Montana knows that once sleepy little 30-bed hospitals (Bath, Great Falls, Bangor) are not sprawling 300-600 bed giants for one reason...Canadians coming to the US for treatment.
"their sales tax is a whopping 20% and income taxes are as high as 50%. All of that money feeds a health care behemoth." That's obviously wrong. The UK spends roughly half per person of what we spend to insure 1/2 of the population as well as everyone in the UK, 1/3 less than than adequately, and 1/6 not at all. And even in the USA, private insurers complained to their Congressmen it cost them more to insure Seniors with Medicare Advantage than it costs the government to provide Medicare B, so the government pays the private insurers 13.3% more for each client than it costs for Medicare B.
Less so than Obama's public model appears as time goes on...
Well, 30% administrative costs seem to be the natural effect of (arguably) the most heavily regulated private healthcare market in the world. Socialized healthcare advocates can't have it both ways; you can't impose burdensome regulations on an entire industry and then criticize that same industry for incurring high costs to comply with those regulations. Regulations, whether perceived as bad or good, all have costs. It might also be interesting to see how much it costs the government to enforce those regulations – something not included in their "5%" administrative costs.
Just a fact. I worked in Germany for 2 months in 2004 validating new equipment to be brought to US. While there one of our team did not bring enough insulin and needed to be rushed to emergency room at the hospital in Stuttgart. They quickly took him in and stablized his condtion. Total Bill $179.34. If you can pull that off here in the united states send me the bill and I will pay it. I still have a copy of it to remind my self how much we are getting screwed by the AMA (which is nothing more than a lobby/union) and Insurance companies.
its getting to the point where you cant read a single CNN article without these uneducated racist morons trolling for attention. Its the sad price of democracy-you have to tolerate idiots like "Archie" and "concerned" as part of the price of freedom.
Other than health car professionals and pharmacetical executives, almost all agree that the US system of health care is no where near as effecient as the rest of the world. Its run for profit, focuses on defensive medical practives to avoid litigation, and targets research dollars not on cures, but on generating dependancy on the drugs. The system needs an over view, but sadly no one has the power or ability to make it happen.
One thing that I think Mr. Zakaria should have brought up is that the most efficient administrator of health insurance in the United States is Medicare. Like the other countries cited, our government, through Medicare, spends much less per claim than any insurance company does.
With private health insurance you have a choice, but with taxes, you do not.
The choice to do what, to refuse healthcare? To not receive healthcare? What do you mean with private health insurance you have a choice?
Zarkaria would have more credibility if his thoughts were not so obviously centered on pandering to left wing correctness. I don't know, but maybe that's part of his contract.
Obviously, Mr Zakariea had not a clue about the comparison of healthcare here in America and other places. We took a Royal Carribean cruise out of Southhamptom England bound for Madieria and Spain. OMG!!! They were all Brits, and they were all young, missing digits, and using walkers and missing limbs!! We were horrifiied. It was a snapshot of socialized medicine in the UK. Thank God we live in the US, but our President is trying to ruin it!! We have seen it first hand. I guess you in the media are too far above the rest of us to see the differences. OR, you think you are too good to get this kind of treatment.What this whole administration ignores is TORT!!! All of these other countries get to ignore is the legal problems that face doctors here. Since most of the Congress and Senate are attorneys, this will never be brought up. Hey, Mr. Sakaria.......bring this up!! You wont. You are bought by the White House. Hope you can sleep at night!
Wy is it so hard to make the distinction between health CARE and health INSURANCE. The Health care industry in the US is just fine, all of the medical procedures in the world are available to everyone. The issues is whether or not the health INSURANCE industry will pay for said procedures. Without the insurance, most people cannot afford the procedures. Insurance is an actuarial game, you pay premiums, the company bets your health care needs will not exceed your premiums. If they do, the insurance company loses money. Insurance companies will ration coverage and covered procedures based on the health of an individual. In a market driven system, an insurer would hav little incentive to cover anyone who is obese and/or a smoker over the age of 40 (+/-). At that stage in your life, your premiums will not cover your medical needs unless your premiums are essentially 50% or more of your income, depending on your income. The question in front of our country is does this make sense? The market driven approach should give people incentives to make healthier choices, but people who may have genetic issues may be disadvantaged. A government system provides universal access but at a substantial financial cost. I guess it depends on what we believe in – the responsibility of the individual or the responsibility of society to the individual. his debate is going to play ou for a few more years at least.
You said insurance company lose if a persons costs exceed their payments. Your flaw is that Obamacare will mandate insurance companies to cover items, even if the insured doesn't use it. People now need to pay for whatever government mandates.
That's not actually a flaw in Obamacare. That's actually what insurance should do. It should pay when you get sick no matter what. The problem right now is that insurance companies don't pay when you get sick. We need a system that covers everyone for whatever illness a doctor says they have.
Private health care spends more on administration than does Medicare. True. When have you heard of out of control health care FRAUD in private health care? Oh, right, never. Only in Medicare, which spends far less on administration and thus policing for FRAUD. And our buddy Obama wants to CUT administration costs. You figure out where that will take us.
This discussion is more difficult because BOTH side are not being honest. Those against Obamacare must admit that they value thier own health care over the collective. As long as they have health care, they can accept those without full health care. Those for Obamacare must admit that everyone's health care will decrease in quality to cover everyone. That health care will be more expensive for everyone that pays. And because the fees will be reduced, incentive for new mecial advances and technology will slow down.
There is no such thing as private health care. Our all-seeing, all knowing government has it's grubby little fingers in the pie at all times.
Dear Fareed,
I think you believe in socialized medicine and focused on the postives of this system than actually analyzing the pros and cons. If U.S. medicine is truly, that poor compared to the rest of the world, then why are American hospitals consistently ranked the best in the world??? The U.S. by far generates more ingenuity and cutting edge research. How could you possibly discuss this topic without even touching on this??
Your views are obviously biased. Private health care is not as ineffecient as you say, but your research certainly was in this area.
Why do we see ots of fundraisers for children with cancer or severe injury. That is horrible in this county. Our kids shuld be insured. They can not get a ob. That baby that ws tossed and eventually killed by a tornado and a boy here in Mi that was struck by a train all had fundraisers to pay for thier care. Why? Their families should not have to worry about their care. That is the PROBLEM!
We were in Britain and my daughter had an injury. I thought it would cost a lot of money to go to the hospital but they said we take care of our children here unlike the US. I AGREE! It was free and we were visitors.
We do have a health care problem in the US.
as long as this country depends on privite health care there will remain no cure for cancer because there is to much profit to be made treating it instead of curing it. the same thing applies to diabeties. we will have to hope that nations with national health care find these cure because their goal is cost not profit!
as an older american i personally know of three very important drugs used by people with diabities and heart problems which i have had from a very young age can be bought from Canada at a little less than what just the co-pay is in this country! what is wrong with this picture? we in this country believe so much in uncotrolled capitalism that we forgot to have the drug companies quote their very best price for a drug like that liberal country to our north Canada!
@dave, you are ascribing to capitalism exactly the problems that stem from socialism. We have a socialist, not capitalist, drug and health care system in this country right now. The regulations on drugs here are utterly socialist and lead to high prices and shortages – including the discrepancy with Canada that you point out. Also, the profit motive right now is on the side of not finding a cure for anything major, and that's because the government provides all the funding right now. When the government is your funding source, you get paid for demonstrating a problem. You get paid up front, before your research, when you write your grant describing the problem. Hence the motive is to keep the problem around, so that you can get another grant when the time comes. In capitalism, you get paid by the customer after the cure is found. Hence the motive is to find the cure and get it to market as quickly as possible.
In both cases, the problems that you bemoan are real problems, but they are the result of our socialist system, not whatever miniscule remnants of capitalism remain.
The NHS is not fair. Is it fair to make my kids pay for another kid's eye glasses? Is it fair to make me pay for my neighbor's care after he smoked for thirty years? The NHS is the definition of unfair. Capitalism, on the other hand, is fair. No one is forced. No one is threatened with jail if they don't pay for their neighbor's jaw to be wired shut after getting in a fight at the pub. Under capitalism, everyone plays under the same rules and no one gets special treatment. Fair.
This article is written for people who do not think. The "compare that to the U.S." line is outrageously anti-mind. There is nothing to compare. There is a quote from a socialist doctor who claims socialism is fair, and then Fareed says "compare that to 137,000 deaths of people needing liver transplants in the U.S." We aren't told the similar statistic in the UK. It's like saying "compare these Smoky and the Bandit movies to your daughter's hair bows. Aren't your daughter's hair bows bad?" The mind boggles. Not to mention that Fareed actually said that 137000 people in the US died because they weren't insured. Lack of insurance is now a cause of death? That's just sloppy writing. I mean come on, at least get the journalism/English part right.
And the efficiency argument makes me cry because it's so ignorant yet so many people believe nonsense like this. A proper judgment of cost efficiency has to discuss benefits, and not just costs, the same way you can't say a bridge is efficient because it only costs $10. If that bridge collapses under a Yaris, so what if it only costs $10? It's not efficient. To compare administrative costs and make an efficiency judgment can only mean either a) Fareed is not thinking well or b) Fareed assumes his readers don't think well. Not to mention that the government costs are massively undercounted here.
Please, people, think critically and logically. The article was written by someone who doesn't expect you to do that, or is incapable of doing that themselves.
Insurance spreads the risk. So when you pay the premium and donot use services then it is the same thing that you may be paying for someone's glasses.
No, when I buy insurance, I am not paying for someone else's glasses. To say that is to say that when you buy a cheeseburger you're paying for Kate Upton's bikini. Here's how it works:
1. I buy insurance. I get the service I paid for: protection against calamity, or, in modern use of the word, doctor payments. I value the insurance more than my money, so I have increased my wealth.
2. The insurance company values my money more than the insurance or health coverage they sell me. They have increased their wealth. (Wealth is not a zero-sum game.)
3. Whatever the insurance company does after that is immaterial. It's not just "my money" anymore. There's more wealth now than we started with; both the company and I are richer.
Here's how it works with the government:
1. The government takes my money. I did not want to buy their services. I do not have something I value more than the money they took.
2. The government does not value my money any more than the service they provide. This is true by definition: the government is a non-profit organization.
3. When the government uses my money to do something, they are using, exactly, my money. Nothing has been added. No one is richer. (In fact, because of transaction costs and necessarily imperfect judgments, wealth is destroyed.)
What you're saying is like the cheeseburger–> bikini argument. Since I buy a cheeseburger from McDonald's, and they pay their employee, and he buys a Sports Illustrated, and SI buys Kate's (small) bikini, that I have bought Kate's bikini. That is not true. It assumes that no value is added anywhere in the process. It assumes that wealth is a zero-sum game. If wealth were a zero-sum game, where were the cavemen who lived in the penthouses that we have today?
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Hi Fareed, thanks or taking up the Healthcare issue on your priority list. Thanks for this article and interview with David Goldhill. The Healthcare costs are exorbitant compared to other developed countries. There is a VAT in the UK but it is on the purchases and not on the income. If one adds the cost of premium, co-payments, out of pocket expenses and ambiguity and uncertainty of receiving service then the costs are too high. Unlike other reforms like Financial reforms it is difficult for consumers to stand against the concentrated power of corporations. HOWEVER WITH TECHNOLOGY
Hello,
it is not true at all. It depends. If the country is developed (west EU countries...) with good public control of their "taxes" (or public insurance), the government should be effective (they don't need to have so huge profits as private companies, like the US insurance companies). In the administative costs is (in my opinion) hidden also some profit.
But in the developing countries, like Slovakia, where people tend to steel everything, the government health insurance is a way to get management job to politician families and to do many uneffective state orders to friend companies – which results in so huge uneffecivity. So both models have their pros and cons.
(Sorry for my english)
There is a simple reason why America's privatized health care system is so expensive: Corporate greed.
Private companies are out to make money, whether they are insurance companies or pharmaceuticals. They make money out of excessive premiums and out of excessive drug costs. The same companies sell the same drugs in India at 10% of US prices, because the Indian customer cannot pay more.
The government needs to manage the health care system, using private companies as required. This is the only system that works. It works in most of Europe, it works in Canada.
Corporate greed is a part of life, and not altogether bad, but it needs to be controlled.
You forgot to mention public sector union greed, which is twice as bad as corporate greed. Because the public sector unions think YOU'RE rich. You fool.
Indeed. Greed is inevitable. In the public sector, it is a negative when allowed to use force (taxation, courts, police, etc.) to satisfy itself. In the private sector, where force is not an option, it is a positive.
Fareed Zakaria is nothing more than a pseudo intellectual carrying water for a failed, one-term liberal administration.
60 percent of all Americans want Obamacare repealed. They're smart; Zakaria is an idiot.
THis show should be change the name to Pump Obama show!
Zakaria wants a job in Obama administration and takes every opportunity to pump him.
What a rotten filler article. My stepfather's family is English. Twice in the past year he has had relatives who flew to the U.S. and paid out of pocket for care because they were not able to get to the caliber of physician they wanted and would have had to wait months for life saving surgery. These are not rich people. Middle class, the expense cleaned out his Aunt's savings, but what do you do when it is your life? Fareed might be able to appeal to my sense of justice that people shouldn't be left to die because they are uninsured but the idea that a national healthcare system is any "better" or "efficient" is at best a ham handed attempt to gloss over what bureaucracy does. When was the last time any of you spent any time personally dealing with a Federal agency and came away thinking "Man they do a great job, what efficiency!"?
The populist rhetoric coming out of CNN is already at a fevered pitch and the election isn't until November. Fareed, you need to stick to foreign affairs buddy. Your views on the Middle East and Asia are insightful, and generally well thought out even when I disagree. These kinds of poorly written and explained blurps hurt your image.
American hospitals are for-profit big time. My friends in Canada pay high taxes, but (with extreme exceptions) do not pay for health care, and do not see a bill for surgery, hospital stay, whatever. You show your health card with its number, and that's it. What a concept! Humanity.
you can save the money to pay taxes for your medical premiums. say in canada, you pay about 40% in taxes of $50,000 yearly income. that's $20,000/year. in the usa, you pay 20% of $50,000, that's only $10,000/year. you get to keep $10,000.
you can buy a very cheap health insurance plan in the usa with maxium out of pocket of $10,000.
supposed if you have the worst year of health, you use that $10,000 to pay. and voila, you're even.
for the best year of health, you don't use any healthcare, you get to keep that $10,000.
in canada, the government uses YOUR $10,000 to pay for healthcare regardless whether you use it or not.
and in return, when YOU need healthcare, you pay nothing. i guess, if you trust your government that much, it makes sense to pay more in taxes and pay nothing for healthcare. you see, in the united states, people are very wary of the government using our money. that's why these debates about healthcare cost will never end.
I read way too many of these post, but not all. Seems to me we should spend more money on HEALTH and less on CARE. There are ways to live healthier, be less sick, but it takes time and individual effort and sometimes discipline. Maybe, since "money talks" we could benefit by a healthy incentive payment.
For those of you republicans scared of socialism and the government takeover of health care, wake up. We already have controlled health care. It's controlled by the private insurance companies. They make decisions as to what and what is not covered under your plan. Need that expensive surgery – sorry, claim denied. Need that prescription filled – sorry, that rx is on the exluded list. You pay out of pocket. Can't afford the $300 per bottle? Oh well. Health insurance here is a joke – we pay higher premiums every year, and receive less and less coverage every year. Higher premiums, higher copayments, high deductibles, all with decreasing coverage. It's a rip off. And the deductible plans are the norm now, where you pay out of pocket for diagnostic (meaning if something is wrong with you!) procedures, when you're already paying $750-$900 or more for your family plan through your employer, never mind on your own the same plan would cost $1400 per month. How many people are putting off procedures since they have a $2000 deducible, and that $1500 test becomes out of reach, so they don't have it, then get sicker later over something preventable, which will cost a lot more money. The system is broken. And for the lower class republicans scared Obama is turning this country towards socialism – how many of you are on VA benefits, or disability, or receive medicaid or food stamps? You're already benefiting from democratic socialism so wake up and realize the GOP doesn't care about you at all. The dems push for your services to help your quality of life improve. Stop voting against your own best interest and please educate yourselves.
It's not in anyone's long-term best interest to steal money from those who produce wealth and give it to those who produce less. While many people on the receiving end think it is good for them, they are wrong. As you point out in your next post, Mary, these people will be receiving less and less as the system bankrupts the country.
What you are attempting to point out, Mary, is exactly what everyone else already believes to be true. What needs pointing out, is that your idea is wrong, and it is not, in fact, in a relatively poor person's interest to steal money (that is, to receive tax money from the government).
Your comments are a sad state of the affairs of this country, where we only care about ourselves and not at all for those less fortunate. You may think why should I pay higher taxes for a poor kid to get eyeglasses. My question is why wouldn't you want to, if you can afford it? Oh yes, wait, because you don't care about anyone but yourself, like most all republicans. Sad state of affairs when the wealth divide in this country is as large as it is, for the reasons which you seem to propose. It's all for me and none for anyone else. I'm sorry but I don't agree with your way of thinking, and you can say mine is wrong all you want, but at the end of the day it all comes down to one thing – we are put on this earth to help one another, not to grow our wealth while others starve. Seems that other countries have this figured out, but this basic human concept is lost on most Americans.
Forgot to mention – family plan of $700-$900 is per month! Try paying that then shelling out another $1500 for a test. Our health care system will bankrupt the middle class at the rate we are going.
Everyone here needs to get off the whole Republican Democrat thing they both have their problems and issues I am not a fan of Obamacare but, i also do like the current healthcare system; they both have very big problems. Our healthcare system needs to be fixed and Obamacare needs out and everything started from scratch. My brother-in law is a doctor and he said what would help is if we went to preventative care and if doctors would volunteer some of their time every week, any thoughts on this?
sorry meant to say do NOT like our current healthcare system
Tthe democrat-republican divide is the heart of the problem and can't be ignored. They can't agree on anything. I wanted the single payer system but Obama couldn't get the republicans to even consider it. Republicans want it to stay the same while dems are pushing for reform. This is all political.
Thank you for raising awareness and providing factual comparisons of America's healthcare system to other industrialized nations. It is a topic that will play a major role in the upcoming elections. One thing noticeably "not" addressed in the program was the comparative salaries of Hospital Administrators and American Medical Doctors to their international counterparts. Why was this important variable left out?
Govt. can and does a better job of providing affordable Health Insurance than any of the Crooked Private Health Insurance Companies in the USA.
You will be talking out of the other side of your mouth after you need to use it. How many years do you think it will take to get the bugs out of a GOVERNMENT system that tries to run the biggest service industry in the blinking country?
Just think about all of the things you've said about the government over the years – go ahead, recall them – now tell me that you think it is better to have these same people, same policies, same unbelievably obtuse system making your health decisions for you. You think you get the same health care, but now the government is just subsidizing the insurance policy? Think again – that never passed vote.
Wake UP!
Why would I want to have to carry TWO separate insurance policies? The idea is ridiculous.
I will be forced to purchase and carry a common, slow, government-run form of overburdened healthcare, complete with the standard bureaucracy, waiting, and frustration, with the usual unimaginative and uninvolved government-droid representatives, and a private policy that will allow me access to actual doctors in emergencies without a day's wait in a smelly, disorderly, government-run ER, and surgical procedures that are scheduled and performed before they actually expect me to die from some medical condition.
I'm telling you, folks, government-run health care is not a nice, good thing. Imagine going to renew your driver license. Now imagine that this is where you go for medical care, too.
Take a look at the USSR 30 years ago. You really want to go there? Man, you are rushing towards disaster.
You cannot honestly say that you believe – against all that you've said about the government for the last 25 years or longer (come on, be honest) and how incompetent, lazy, inefficient, and all of the other terms you have used as epithets to describe the government, who is in it and how it works – that a government agency can do ANYthing but screw this up?
Even if you are an over-the-top Obama fan, you cannot be so obtuse as to believe that He has suddenly made it all better within the government bureaucracies, and that His presence will fix all of the problems? He has to go in 5 years, tops, and he ain't Putin – he cannot get reelected.
What then, Obama fans? What then? Maybe a Republican will be in charge of it then! What then, what then?
Better not even to go down that road, yes?
Imagine the military running your health care. Is this really what you want, or is this just an, "I love Obama" thing?
Regardless of what president you like or what party you belong to, this is a disaster waiting to happen.
For those of you afraid of the government controlled health care, how many of you are on Medicare? We ALREADY HAVE government controlled health care for the poor, the elderly, the veterans and the disabled. It's the working folks who are getting screwed. We are spending a huge amount of our income on health care and at the rate we are going, in 20 years or less, what we earn per year won't cover our yearly health care costs! Do you understand the severity of this crisis? The escalating health care costs and decreasing coverage are going to bankrupt the middle class. Unless you have a magical solution which the rest of the world hasn't figured out yet, please stop blocking the reform we need for the working class, who are overly burdened with costs for this and who are putting off procedures and medical care because they can't afford it.
Betsy, you're so close to right that it hurts.
The truth is, we ALREADY HAVE government-controlled health care for everyone. Not just for the poor, the elderly, the veterans, and the disabled. It's for everyone. There is not a single major aspect of health care, for anyone in the US, that is not controlled to significant extent by the government.
And that is why the current health care system is, as you say, screwed up. Because it's ALREADY government-controlled.
Please feel free to share your solution to the problem. I have a privately held insurance company controlling what is and is not covered, to the tune of $500 per month, with high deductible and high copayments. My prescription happens to be on the excluded list and costs me $130 per bottle. Tell me how this can be worse for the average working class American, when in Canada I can get care just as good for less money. Please share your wisdom!
for your information, we have "universal and affordable health care" in this country. it's called "county hospitals and clinics." these facilities are funded by tax-payers' money. anyone can use it. if you do not have money to pay, they write it off or social workers and financial advisors will apply for you to get public assistance in paying your healthcare bills. these places are staffed by medical resident doctors and teaching doctors. these facilities are already PRE-PAID by our government.
i know, these facilities are not always nice and patient-friendly, but they are free or almost free for those who cannot afford healthcare.
the problem that many feel they do not have universal access to healthcare is that people want to go ANYWHERE they want to receive care. and that they want this and that and all the drugs and medical treatment they see or read on television and newspaper. they want their doctors to spend alot of time with them. they want hospitals to do any type of imaging tests that they "may need" to find cancers or treat this and that.
at some point, all of us must say to ourselves: you get what you paid for! so next time you think you have no access to universal healthcare, think of county hospitals and clinics. your tax money goes to their operations.
Nice try, but people go bankrupt every day over medical expenses. If you are working, chances of you getting your coverage for free are not great. They'll just send you the bill, badger you, then send you to collections. It happens all the time. People have lost their life savings and their homes due to hospital bills. The clinics you talk about are usually for people with no coverage who are not on medicaid, but should be.
Betsy, Sorry I got your name wrong above. This comment system won't let me reply directly above, so I'm putting my reply here. I'm pasting in your comment below.
First of all, how dare you accuse me of not caring about my fellow man? I'm posting here because your policies hurt other people. It is your type of thought – statist, centrist, government-focused thought – that led to millions dying in the USSR and China in the 20th century. Your thinking hurts poor and rich people and condemns everyone to a life worse than otherwise possible. How dare you accuse me of bad intentions? I afford you the courtesy of assuming that you are a kind person who means well, despite your ignorance, pretended or otherwise, of history and fact. Please afford me the same courtesy.
Second, I'm not a Republican by any stretch of the imagination. Republicans just as much as Democrats are to blame for creating an elite political class that exploits the poor and formerly middle class (using your ideas, Betsy, the ones that you mistakenly think help poor people. This has been the method of their greatest success. They have convinced good people like you that because they mean well, they could not possibly be doing harm.)
Third, please see America for what it is. Almost everyone here believes what you believe. Both dominant "sides" of the political debate – Republicans and Democrats – believe or purport to believe, as you do, that taxes and forced redistribution of wealth are the correct ways to proceed and help people. When you say that America doesn't believe in this, you're wrong. America absolutely believes in the redistribution of wealth. The only question is to what degree. Our current ills are not because we're a capitalist country. We're not. We're a socialist country. People only continue to call us capitalist because they don't want to blame our problems on socialism.
Finally, there is your very reasonable question, "why wouldn't you want to pay higher taxes so a kid can have eyeglasses, if you can afford it?" There are many reasons that a kind, generous, well-meaning individual might not want to pay higher taxes even though he could afford it. Maybe he believes, correctly, that the government is a wasteful and inefficient middle man. Maybe he wants to take his neighbor or the kid in his church straight to the optometrist himself and buy a pair of glasses, cutting out the transaction costs of taxation. Maybe he thinks heart surgery for dying people is more important than eyeglasses for shortsighted people, so he donates to a cardiac center instead. Maybe he is worried that his mother is going to be in a nursing home soon, so even though he can afford more taxes now, he should save for the future. Maybe he realizes that the future is uncertain, and therefore he doesn't know if he can afford to give money to charity or not, even though he only spent 90% of what he earned this year and therefore could, in theory, pay more in taxes. The point is that no one – except the taxpayer himself – has any right, in the name of God or government or anyone else, to decide whether or not the taxpayer can "afford" more taxes. Every man is created free, and no man or government can take his life and his work from him by force without committing a crime. Perhaps we can agree on this: if he wants to give more money to the government, he is free to do so. But to extend that and say that the political class has power over a free man's work, deciding how much he can "afford" to give to the government, is an assault on liberty.
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Your comments are a sad state of the affairs of this country, where we only care about ourselves and not at all for those less fortunate. You may think why should I pay higher taxes for a poor kid to get eyeglasses. My question is why wouldn't you want to, if you can afford it? Oh yes, wait, because you don't care about anyone but yourself, like most all republicans. Sad state of affairs when the wealth divide in this country is as large as it is, for the reasons which you seem to propose. It's all for me and none for anyone else. I'm sorry but I don't agree with your way of thinking, and you can say mine is wrong all you want, but at the end of the day it all comes down to one thing – we are put on this earth to help one another, not to grow our wealth while others starve. Seems that other countries have this figured out, but this basic human concept is lost on most Americans
I like your words and apologize for offending you. I'm sure you have good intentions deep down, as do I. I do have to admit though, I can't help but see the concept of don't touch my taxes I'm not helping anyone else as self-centered. There is no need to be offended because this is just my opinion. And to say that because I propose government programs to help the poor makes me in line with the thinking that caused the deaths of people in USSR and China? Are you serious? This is exactly what I am talking about. I see poor people complaining about socialism and it's evils while collecting food stamps and va benefits. People do not understand democratic socialism does not equal communism. The right wing is educating people to be afraid of the government, even when they people need the help or are already receiving it! I'm proposing what they have in Europe, in Canada, in all other industrialized countries. I'm suggesting we take care of each other rather than look our just for ourselves. Honestly, when other civilized countries have this figured out, why can't we? What you are speaking of is the heart of the republican argument against helping the poor. I see it all the time. Listen to fox news. Just last night I heard it again. People don't see themselves as having a responsiblity to help their neighbor here. IF I thought all wealthy people did as you say, and help the less fortunate, then yes, you are correct. Keep government out of it. However, I don't believe that is true, and deep down, do you? The wealthy seem to blame the poor for their problems – too lazy, not motivated, no work ethic, etc....do you really think they are going to volunteer their money to help them when they blame them for their problems? For crying out loud, at a recent GOP event, they were booing the golden rule! Same problems go for capitalism – let it run rampant with no regulations, and look at the results – housing collapse, recession, banking failures. You can't just rely on the good intentions of people who are out to make a profit. I can't stress this enough. I assume you are in the tea party, longing for personal freedom? Would you suggest doing away with Medicare and Medicaid, food stamps, and all government supported programs? How exactly will the poor take care of their daily needs? Do you really think the wealthy will just start giving up their money to help them? Explain that to the poor guy who has to choose between his meds and food how the rich will support out of the goodness of their own hearts when his medicare and food stamps are taken away. The polyanna concept of the wealthy pitching in on their own is in general not going to happen. I'm not saying there aren't kind-hearted republicans who don't donate their time and money. I"m sure there are. But in general, to say the government has no say in helping it's own people, and to cry foul when your taxes are rasied, shows a lack of understanding of the needs of the less fortunate. And what is your solution to the health insurance crisis? Again, I"m not hearing any solutions from you.
Hi Betsy, I'm glad we're on more cordial terms. I truly do believe you have everyone's best interest at heart, as do I. We both want what is going to help people the most.
Here's one reason why I think unfettered capitalism will help people the most. Look at how it has redefined poverty in our country. Over half of those in our country living below the poverty line own cell phones. Way, way more than half (I think it's above 95% for TVs) of them eat out at restaurants once a week or more, own a television, get cable or satellite TV, and, if they're kids, play video games daily. And 100% of those people, everyone in our country, has free urgent medical care in emergency rooms. That's an amazing degree of wealth relative to the overall human condition. Our "poor" people, thanks to the few remaining capitalist elements in our system, are unbelievably rich by the standards of truly poor countries. Look at Freedom House's list of the world's richest countries. They are all more capitalist (they're socialist overall, but they're relatively more capitalist) than the countries at the bottom of the list. There is a direct relationship between freedom and the overall weatlh in a country, including the poor people. It's better to be poor in heaven than an elite in hell, so to speak. That's why the elite of other countries still come – or did until a few years ago – to get medical procedures in the US that even the poor here can and do receive routinely. So that's just one example of why I think unfettered capitalism helps the poor people the most of any system: history has shown that the standard of living increase in relatively capitalist countries for both rich and poor alike is so great that, if it had not happened, people likely would not believe it.
You ask if deep down I think the wealthy would voluntarily contribute their money to the poor. It doesn't matter what I think. The fact is that they do. Bill Gates, Larry Allen, Ted Turner, Warren Buffet have donations somewhere around $100 billion just between them. That's more than 150 countries' entire annual GDP. Just from those four guys who could have made even more money and donated even more money if the US economy were more free. So yes, I believe, I know, that people, not just the wealthy, will donate freely in significant sums. Under capitalism, in fact, they will donate far more than the taxes that they would pay under a socialist system or communist system, even at a 100% tax rate.
You say that you're not hearing solutions from me. Laissez-faire capitalism is my solution. No other form of society has created more wealth, kept more infants alive (look at infant mortality rates since the rise of capitalism, limited though it has been, in Western civilization), cured more sick people, allowed more poor people to see the Grand Canyon and the Acropolis and their relatives in Montevideo on a regular basis, or provided for a better standard of living than the closest-to-capitalist systems that we've had.
History is indisputable. There is a direct relationship between true poverty and direct government control. Do I think that you want the Holodomor and the other planned communist starvation genocides to be repeated? Of course not. Yet nonetheless, you advocate moving in the direction of more government control. That is the direction of the Holodomor, where truly poor toddlers in the Ukraine ate each other in orphanages because of Stalin's government-enforced famine. That sort of thing can and does happen. I know you don't want it to happen and you think that some "limited" form of socialism will not go there. But even a limited socialism (and nothing breaks limits more than a government that is above the law, as socialist governments necessarily are) will produce limited Holodomor effects. There are shortages of drugs that poor people need in this country right now because there is no profit motive to produce them. Every time, EVERY TIME in history that there are price controls, shortages result. And yet people still pursue price controls with the ostensible goal of helping the poor, when in fact such controls only benefit (in the short term; they benefit no one in the long term) the elite classes by restricting the goods to the politically connected and favored. Any form of socialism is by definition an elitism. Socialism creates an elite class that is above the law; the elite class gets to decide how to apply the laws to everyone else. Whether or not that elite class is democratically elected doesn't matter. It's still an elite class that oppresses people. Remember that Hitler and Mao were both democratically favored, slam-dunk democratic winners. Don't think Hitler or Mao can happen here? I know Germans who can't understand how their grandparents voted for Hitler. They did it because Hitler said he'd help the poor, that socialism (remember the Nazi party is the National Socialist Party) would replace the ills of capitalism, and that he would do things like Volkswagen to make sure that the poor were on par with the rich. The will to use force to make things "fair" is understandable. But force – including government-initiated force, through taxation, regulation, and other mandates – is never acceptable. The person who starts using force is always a criminal. The government is not above this law; it cannot be allowed to initiate the use of force.
A couple of your other points. You say that other civilized countries "have this figured out." Do you mean health care? The truth is that Canadian, UK, and European health care is a joke. They are killing poor people in those countries by making them wait years for cancer screenings, for example. Only the elite and the politically connected get to have as many procedures done as they can afford; everyone else has to depend on the mercy and favor of the decision-making class. I lived in Buffalo and saw first-hand streams of people coming in from Canada every day for medical procedures that they would have to wait years, often life-threatening years, for in Canada. (Same thing with college; Buffalo's colleges are filled with Canadians who get supposedly "free" college in Canada. But the problem is that the colleges in Canada make them wait in line until they can enroll, and this wait has a huge cost in terms of lost years of work, delays, etc. There are many Canadians who band together and rent hotel rooms or apartments in Buffalo to live in for the several nights a week when they have classes, taking them away from their families so they can learn in our relatively more capitalist universities.) If you see polls that show that a majority of UK, Europe, and Canadian citizens favor their health systems, that's because the majority of them have never had to USE their health system. Go look at the people who have actually had to use the system – not the ones that work in it – and you'll see a much different story. Just like Obama sends his kids to private school, and the Republicans in Washington do the same, eschewing public education, you will see the politically elite finding a way out of the public socialist health care system too. Only the poor people of the country – those outside the ruling class – will be condemned to the socialist system.
Regarding your point about people having a responsibility to help their neighbor. You can't say that people are responsible for their neighbors because if they were, then you'd have to send the neighbors of murderers to jail. No man is responsible for anyone's actions but his own. That said, obviously it is kind and good to help neighbors. But for the same reason that we cannot outlaw neo-Nazi political parties in our country, we can't outlaw people being jerks and not helping others. And by outlaw, I mean we can't – or shouldn't – throw people in jail for not donating taxes to the government. As Voltaire said, "I disagree with what you are saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." The same applies to work, property, and money. I might disagree with how some jerk spends or doesn't spend his money. But I will defend to the death his right to do so. It's his wealth. I am a criminal if I initiate the use of force to take it from him, and so is anyone else, including the government.
I hope that I have shown how I believe that capitalism helps the poor, and how I believe that socialism hurts the poor. I respect that people of good intentions and good will can disagree on this. But I cannot come to any conclusion, looking at history and ethics, other than one that says capitalism helps everyone and socialism only helps the elite.
Lastly, about your point that the right in this country is teaching people to fear government. They definitely are teaching people that. So is the left. Both sides want the people to be cowed by the government. What we need to do is the converse. What we need, what will really help people, what must happen is that we teach people to make the government afraid of the people.
Thank you for your comments. I really do disagree with you on all of them though. We could go around and around for days on this. I have relatives in Canada who are extremely satisfied with their health care. They are dumbfounded that a country as wealthy as ours can't take care of it's own citizens. They are amazed when I tell them my medical costs and how much of my paycheck it consumes. And no, there is no waiting for months for life saving procedures. That is fear talking, not reason. The simple fact is that we spend more on health care here and receive less for it than they do. And yes, I do think it is our responsiblity, as Americans, as moral, ethical people, to help our neighbors. Not just a nice thing to do but one of the reasons we are here on this planet. Is this not one of the basic tenents of Christianity? It astounds me that the far right, who promote their religious faith, overlook this basic, underlying principle of their religion. I will always look out for the less fortunate. You willl always look out for personal freedom and individual rights. I value the needs of the whole over the rights of a few. You disagree with that, which I understand, but there lies the basis of our disagreement, and the basis of the republican-democratic divide. I wish you well! Maybe some time in the future the two sides will agree on something!
As a Canadian who is a Cancer survivor who went to her Dr complaining of "strange episides", I within 4 weeks had many tests to determine what was wrong, (This included 1 CT Scan, 2 MRI's, 1 EEG) a Malignant Tumour discovered and removed by world class surgeons in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada all at no cost to me. So I would have to politely disagree with you CommonSense that we wait years for tests, screenings and surgeries. I also am not sure where you get that Canadian students get "free" college, we don't. Here in Ontario we have the OSAP which is the Ontario Student Assistance Program. That is simply a loan from the Government that you pay back after you have completed your studies. I should know because I was on OSAP when I went to school.
Tara – The provincial governments (at least Quebec and Ontario, I assume the others) cap their schools' tuitions at prices far below current value. How far below? When McGill recently raised their MBA rates against the government's wishes (for which transgression the government punished them), the price went up to about $30,000 from... about $1700. I did not forget a zero in that last number. That's how out-of-touch with capped tuitions are. Here's a link to a NYT article: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/21/education/21iht-educBriefs21.html?_r=1&src=twrhp Not sure if it will come through, but you can google it (March 20th of last year). So, maybe not quite free. But the average Ontario undergrad ANNUAL, not per semester, tuition is around $5800 over the last five years. Add to that the government just threw another $1600 cut on top of that this year, and it's close enough to free, if not completely free when you factor in bursaries, grants, and other monies, widely available, that you don't have to pay back. I assure you I was a grad student in Buffalo at Canisius College, and we had many, many Canadian students in my classes who did exactly what I described in my earlier post, for exactly those reasons. Namely, they came here because they'd have to wait forever for a spot in the Canadian system in their fields, so even though their tax money (as ours does in the US, to a somewhat lesser degree) went to universities there already, it was more cost-effective in the long run to come to a US school that would let them in right away.
I'm glad your health care situation worked out. But it doesn't for many Canadians. My wife worked in Buffalo emergency rooms while we were there. The stories found in "The Free Market Cure" movie – here's the wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Free_Market_Cure (again, please google it if the link doesn't come through) – are all too common.
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