By Fareed Zakaria, CNN
As Egypt's election campaign gathers pace, we are seeing the rise of candidates from Islamic parties, one more radical than the next. Across the Arab world, the promise of a new birth of freedom has been followed by a much messier reality.
It raises the question in many people's minds: Why does it seem that democracy has such a hard time taking root in the Arab world?
As it happens, a Harvard economics professor, Eric Chaney, recently presented a rigorous paper that helps unravel that knot. Chaney asks why there is a "democracy deficit" in the Arab world and systematically tests various hypotheses against the data. He notes that such majority-Muslim nations as Turkey, Indonesia, Albania, Bangladesh and Malaysia have functioning democratic systems, so the mere presence of Islam or Islamic culture cannot be to blame.
He looks at oil-rich states and again finds that some with vast energy reserves, like Saudi Arabia, lack democracy, but so do some without – like Syria. He asks whether Arab culture is the culprit, but this does not provide much clarity. Chaney points out that many countries in the Arab neighborhood seem to share in the democracy deficit - Chad, Iran, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan - yet they are not Arab.
Then Chaney constructs a persuasive hypothesis based in ancient history and modern economics. He notes that the democracy deficit today exists in lands that were conquered by Arab armies after the death in A.D. 632 of the Prophet Muhammad.
Lands that the Arabs controlled in the 12th century remain economically stunted today. This correlation is not simply a coincidence. Arab imperial control tended to mean weak civil society and a large role for the state in the economy. Chaney documents the latter, showing that the government's share of GDP is 7% higher on average among countries that were conquered by Arab armies than among those that were not. He also finds that these countries have fewer trade unions and less access to credit - features of a vibrant civil society.
There are less medieval factors. It has long been apparent that the dictatorships of the Middle East form close alliances with religious leaders to crowd out other leaders and groups. Indonesia, the country with the world's largest Muslim population had religious parties just as Egypt did. But it also had powerful groups that were less religious, more moderate and entirely secular. All these groups competed for influence on an even footing, something that is not happening in the Arab world.
Chaney's analysis reminds us that the real problem in a country like Egypt is that the military continues to keep power concentrated, undivided and unchecked. It maintains the central role in the economy. The chief challenge in the Arab world remains to create a vibrant civil society, which means political parties and also a strong, self-sustaining private sector.
The dysfunctions in the Arab world have ancient roots, going back over a thousand years. But this does not mean that the region is impervious to change. History, and the habits it engendered, are democracy's biggest foes in the Arab world. But as these habits change, things should improve. It is a prescription for the very long term, but at least it is a prescription.
For more of my thoughts throughout the week, I invite you to follow me on Facebook and Twitter and to visit the Global Public Square every day. Also, for more What in the World? pieces, click here.
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I would love to visit an Arab country. If they would have me, I think it would be cool to live in Saudi Arabia for a while.
you better be a man. because if you're a woman, you're basically signing up for slavery.
btw, zakaria is wrong. islam is to blame for the democracy "deficit." indonesia and turkey are barely democracies. islamic law is to blame. islam is a backwards totalitarian ideology/theocracy. it's completely incompatible with democracy, and it's time we realize that.
Rz, can you chime in here plz...
Indonesia and Turkey are democracies (not barely). As for islamic law. Besides Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan no muslim country follows islamic law. I am secular but I believe that religion is not be blamed for everything. It looks like everything is being blamed on islam these days. Its ridiculous. No religion is incompatible with democracy. In fact religion is not the issue here. Its religious fanaticism and theocracy.
you summarize it correctly!
lol, Turkey is more Democratic than USA. Lol, you just stated a blind statement. You blame Islam, and give no reason.
Ya, keep buying into the media smear campaign. Women in Saudi do not have it that bad. A lot better than India or a lot of Asian countries
@ Jackie, don't tell anyone, but jal is actually Queen Elizabeth and she has never set foot on a Muslim country for fear of becoming a slave. OKAY, OKAY, relax ! Of course that's all a load of bunk!
Point is that our perspectives are almost always facetious, but regardless, we all usually pay respect where it is due. Yes, inequality in gender, race, color, etc, and the influence or level of the "religion" in government vary from one place to the next. And to some degree, it is everywhere, just stronger in some places than others. So, whomever you might be, and wherever you may wish to go, if you are as careful, considerate, and respectful as Queen Elizabeth, chances are no one will enslave you. But I'm sure there are places even she would not wish to go.
I suspect Jackiesmith is one of those individuals who, having never lived in the Middle East, is an expert. Having lived here for most of the past 25 years, I can attest that women are not slaves any more than they are in the west or Far East. Reminds me of people I visit with in Canada and the US who are amazed that I live in the Middle East "where it is so dangerous." I live here. They have never been here. Which do you imagine has a better idea of the extent of the danger? As for jackiesmith's phobia about Islam, one need only listen to the hate messages emanating from conservative religious leaders in the US, for example. The attack on women in recent political debates in the US is something women I know here would never have to worry about.
@jackiesmith, Islam is a religion interpreted by human beings. Hence Islam is per se not to be blamed for democracy deficit. In fact in Albania, where over 65% of the population are Muslims, they are more tolerant and open than those elsewhere.
Fareed, democracy deficit can sometimes be transient. The first 10 years after the fall of the Iron Curtain in 1989, many eastern European countries suffered also a democracy deficit. But they were determined to reform in order to catch the "European train". Let's hope that it might not be a permanent case in the Arab World.
hey yoghurt
you say "Women in Saudi do not have it that bad"
Do you even know how horrible just making this statment is?
hehehe... yup, we just stone some, bludgeon others, slap most arround, but just a little bit.
@rutgurt, "Women in Saudi do not have it that bad" ? And you're making a comparison to India and South Asia?
You're talking about Saudi Arabia, where women aren't allowed to drive, aren't allowed to work in most fields and need their husband's or father's permission to leave the house and need their husband's or father's company to leave/enter the country.
My mom grew up in India 30 years ago, and she was allowed to drive, vote, own her own property, conduct her own business, raise up her kids and travel wherever she wanted. Get real buddy. Source of my info: I've lived in Saudi for years.
Turkey and indonesia are rife with All the usual Islamic barbarism and will drop their weak democracy and join the barbarian caliphate in a heartbeat. Turkey has some of the highest recent numbers of honor killings, indonesia still publicly whips women for talking to men other than their husbands. Tribal elements are slowly pushing out the Europeanized turkey of attaturk, that still won't even admit it killed millions of Armenians. They are a hairs breath away from the violence of Syria and Libya. Islam needs to be reformed or eradicated
There is a difference between an emotional reply and a thought out response. Islam cannot be the reason for democratic deficit. Look at the leadership structure in Islam. There is no concept of a singular Islamic head such as the pope in Catholicism (who wasn't elected by the people yet took central role in functioning of the states). Yes Islam does have a concept of the caliphate but that didn't last long and has never been a much of consideration since.
lol
@Rz, sorry, I mistook you for someone else...
I am from Turkey and Turkey is a secular country, would be an ideal bridge to the Middle East and the Muslim world.( Thanks to Ataturk),Because of this, Iran has criticised Turkey’s secular system of government . Please read some articles about Turkey
Turkey would be good. Maybe that would be the best situation. After all, someone needs to clog the wood chipper in Syria, might as well be me. I wonder if they will call me a girl there too! lol
Islam is garbage , its nothing more then an excuse to kill people in the name of a fake god, who doesn't need muslims anyway. Forcing iron tongues on people to either believe or die, these countries aren't even passed the middle ages. True democracy is something these cavemen and woman can only dream of.
We see the exact same lack of democracy happening with the virulent pseudo-Christian theocracy in the USA. We should spend less time worrying about the Muslims achieving democracy than we need to worry about the US surrendering its democracy and rule of law to corporate dictatorships, who have hijacked patriotism and religion. This kind of mind control is possible because they control the media here (Fox expecially) and therefore control the minds of enough people to erode our democracy to a point of meaninglessness.
Religion is the problem, the arabs use this religion to enslave populations destroy language and cultures, and ultimately fill their pockets,
millions of people every year bring their savings, and the future of their children to the saudis,
believing its the wish of god, its just business,
we need a renaissance in the islamic world to put people instead of religion in the center, In a democracy people come first, in islam people have no value.
P.S Is turkey a democracy ask the kurds
Nowadays the main concern for Muslim intellectuals is to prove that Islam and democracy can live in peace and this will result in progress. Democracy is the participation of crowds in making decisions, but progress is not a natural outcome of a democratic system. Progress requires evaluations of personal and societal beliefs and actively lifting oppressive thought patterns especially religious oppression. The progress that happened in the western countries was the result of intellectual tradition that was refined by many great minds over the centuries, and it was not a by-product of democracy. The prevalent thought in Middle East is that democracy will open the political sphere and naturally social progress will follow, which is quite naive. Iran is good example of a failed attempt at establishing democracy in a Muslim country. In 1979 people revolted against the monarch in hopes of establishing a democratic system. What looked promising initially has been steadily falling in the abyss of a totalitarian religious rule.
Are you feeling well?
Yea, thx. i dont know how you put up with these blogs sometimes!
j. von hettlingen
Islam is a religion created by one man – 'hammed.
As such it is full of murder, lies, mayhem...
by a hindu, lair in his hinduism, absurdity.
For Reality their muslim will burn their irrelevant primitive islamic words.
For Reality their muslim will eliminate islam that cage enslave their lives.
For Human Beings their muslim will sacrifice islam as foretold by islam itself.
Even their islamic god feels Boring to hear the same islamic prayer in sorrow 5 times a day from noisy mosques.
Just turn off the loudspeaker mosques the noisy pollution the soul pollution only bring chaos conflicts all violence.
For Human Beings Sacrifice islam! Crucify islam!
See The Better Worlds Without islam the terrorist religion from the wrong past.
Deadislam
Great acting=your imam prepared you well.
Is this where you expect Americans to jump in and call you an islamaphobe?
And, then you can laugh like a little girl.
you're insane. which of course means you'd fit right in here in Saudi.
You obviously have no idea about saudi arabia. Its the last country a free person want to be!
Saudis and Kuwaitis are the most f'd up Arabs you'll ever find. Why would you want to live in a such closed-minded societies?
And if you are in Europe, well just wait 10 years you will find yourself in a Muslim majority continent.
For Reality their muslim will burn their irrelevant primitive islamic books.
For Reality their muslim will eliminate islam that cage enslave their lives.
For Human Beings their muslim will sacrifice islam as foretold by islam itself.
Even their islamic allah feels Boring to hear the same islamic prayer in sorrow 5 times a day from noisy mosques.
Just turn off the loudspeaker mosques the noisy pollution the soul pollution only bring chaos conflicts all violence.
For Human Beings Sacrifice islam! Crucify islam!
See The Better Worlds Without islam the terrorist religion from the wrong past.
Fareed, and many many others, do not understand how unique American Democracy is. There was and still is nothing like it. Only comparable was the French Revolution and that went sour soon enough. Talking about other countries and why or how the differ from our sustained Democracy is an apples and oranges comparison. You can not go from the back of a donkey, or camel, or ox to the seat of a F-16 in one or two or even 10 generations. Once we took over all the land, we were starting and trying something BRAND NEW. We were really making it up as we went along . . . and STILL ARE. All the other "countries" have a lot of baggage to drag along when they get ready to start experimenting with "democracy". Seems the system today is kind of rigged against a common man rising to uncommon leadership. Most new "Governments" are controlled by economic thugs or just plain old thugs, of any nationality. By sheer happenstance I was born into this Grand Experiment in 1942. I really am still in awe of what we have done so far, and we're still working on it ! Vote ! (Early and often).
""Governments" are controlled by economic thugs or just plain old thugs". Sounds a lot like a government close to home, doesn't it? We don't have our baggage? I'd hate to be Native American and read this post...
Amazingly many native Americans like myself fear Islam and Muslim immigration much more than western civilization, which is still the best system yet invented. believe it or not We don't like to see the white man grow so weak after being so strong. Almost all of us live in this society and reap its benefits
Lou, dont you have some prepping to do? lol
Yet how interesting is it that certain groups pick up on democracy very quickly – in FAR less than "10 generations." Israel is a flourishing democracy right in the middle of countries older than it, who just don't seem to get it.
Nice summary that includes a warm and fuzzy "grand experiment" speech. Now that it's done, let's talk about reality.
Islam is anti-democracy by design. The two concepts are not compatible – in any country. Islam will give way – it may take time, but they will give way. The funny thing about freedom is that once you give people a taste of it, they want more. Islam's refusal to compromise (for now) will be its own undoing. Sadly, many more people will no doubt have to die in the process...
not taking sides here, but Israel jumped right into "democracy" because it's made up of Jewish Europeans who where relocated there after ww2. They are not natives of the middle east, they're European...
1948
Country Jewish Refugees
Morocco 265,000
Algeria 140,000
Tunisia 105,000
Libya 38,000
Egypt 75,000
Lebanon 6,000
Syria 30,000
Iraq 150,000
Iran 100,000
Afghanistan 5,000
Pakistan 2,000
Yemen 63,000
Ethiopia 23,270
Europe 377,381
To Reaper. Look again at Israel. It is not a pure Jewish state but includes Palestines who are capable of living in harmony with Jews given the democratic womb of personal freedom and minority protection.
"Islam is anti-democracy by design."
So is Christianity. Listen to those who preach it. There can be no democracy in the Kingdom of God. Religion promises freedom but only offers enslavement.
How does one explain Spain? Conquered by Islam for decades but taken back into the arms of christianity and back to democracy?
hinduism, criminality.What else.
Super Pacs are killing democracy in the USA... give them two maybe three more elections and the USA will no longer be a democracy.
Louie, turn off Fox News. Welcome to reality. The signal date of the surrender of US democracy was 2000, when the corrupt supreme court handed the presidency to the corporate stooge Bush. We've been bought and sold. You're blathering stuff that is rapidly losing all meaning.
Advise: For tough floaters, always ensure to drop some tp in there. This will save a lot of water from not havin to flush so much
beware the Toilet Jinn which is presented in novel - Tales from the East: Return of Ivanhoe - due out by summer 2012.
I haven't read the paper but from Fareed's summary it sounds like the author has chosen the samples that suit his hypothesis.
American viewers might be yearning for "One-Answer-Fits-All" explanation, in their trademark simplicity of "if you are not with us, you are..." (OK, let's not go there again).
Whilst happy democracies all look alike, unhappy political situations are unhappy in their own way and require their unique solutions from their respective peoples.
Random historical theorising will not help to foster better tomorrow for our afflicted Arab friends, just as blaming everything on those predatory Westerners, who abused their feudal rulers to their advantage, will never solve any of their current issues.
To say that the presence of Islam is not to blame because of the existence of nations like Indonesia is disingenuous. As pointed out, the nations directly conquered and occupied by the Arab founders of Islam can't sustain democracy and are the most backwards. Acknowleding this while ignoring that from the outset, these nations were then ruled as theocracies is ridiculous.
It makes more sense to conclude that where Islam was forced on a region by those most fanatical about adherence – its founders – democracy has a hard time taking root. Islam is not simply a religion in these regions. It IS the political system, it IS the culture. And Islam means submission. Independent thinking, independent conduct, basic freedom of thought and democracy is not part of the culture.
You are absolutely correct. Democracy only works with freedom of choice and is better suited with Christianity. That's why it worked so well for the U.S.A. Then we turned a deaf ear to God; now decadence, greed, promiscuity and all forms of immorality is destroying us. Yeah, I know there are a lot of self-righteous "Christian" here but I'm talking about the need for following Christ : walking the talk not just talking the walk.
Actually this country was not founded on Christianity, it was founded with the idea of freedom of religion. And that doesn't mean that we are all free to become Christians. As for the article, I have to agree with some of the comments here. It may not be Islam itself but rather the culture of Islamists. Much like the culture of Christianity in Europe a few hundred years ago
There's obviously a deficit in Arab voices when a Pakistani (or is it Indian)-American journalist quotes a young caucasian-American in unravelling mysteries about Arab culture. It's stinking good.
No, Lebanese is not Arab. In the seventh century, then part of the Byzantine Empire, Lebanon’s coast, but not its mountains, was conquered by the Arab Muslim forces advancing westward. Their goal was to promulgate their own culture (Arab) and religion (Islam). With the local population resisting conversion to Islam, the invaders resorted to bringing people from their own and other conquered regions to station and defend land they occupied in Lebanon, who would eventually settle in the country. Successive Muslim dynasties ruled Lebanon until the end of the First World War when the last of these empires, the Ottoman, was defeated.
I don't think it matters how you define yourself when the majority of Lebanese and the rest of the world see you as an Arab.
Out of curiousity, what 2 or 3 languages are you taught in Lebanon? Can you say "Arabic"?
The Lebanese are indeed taught the Arabic language in schools as a foreign language, just as they are taught French or English. And, it does matter to many Lebanese how they define themselves. In fact, it is a right they have earned; they, and their ancestors, have been repelling the invaders of their country for centuries and they will continue to do so in the future.
The "invader" is within.
The reason is Islame. Hahahahahaha
how lame...
But oh so true!!!!!!!!! Hahahahahaha
Interesting hypothesis, though I'd personally be wary of looking that far back into history to explain the Arab world's current standing. I would argue that the Ottoman empire sorta missed the boat on establishing the same sort of extremely profitable colonial empires that European states were able to establish, perhaps due to the luck or perhaps due to the weakness versus the political system of a nation state. It'll be nice to see how this paper holds up to peer review as the years tick by.
I would look no further than a few generations of education, as applied in the home and school for Middle East solutions. Do they make children learn rote, repeating word by word the adults words, or do they take questions from 5 and 10 years olds. Having lived in the Middle East for 11 years I sense a lack of communication among the generations. Rote learning has been condemned for generations in the West. Are children beaten during disciplining regularly or are alternative methods applied. Is corporal punishment encouraged in the schools, have been eliminated in the West?
Fareed Zakaria, let's see, isn't he the same Pseudo Intellectual that told us that the Muslim Brotherhood would not be a threat to Egypt and that they would remain a secular 'democratic force'! Oh Yeah, that Fareed Zakaria, the shill for the Obama Administration and George Soros Favorite Puppet Interviewer!
This is the Best CNN has! Buy The Puts and Short The Stock! Pathetic and Sad....
better get the popcorn ready - ala Terrel Owens.
Read "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" by Nonie Darwish. For those of you that think Islam is a 'peaceful religion', it will shock you and having lived many years in Middle Eastern countries, I can tell you that she is dead on.
For those of you that ascribe to the belief that it is just a small minority, consider what a small minority of hard core Nazis started in Europe and because so many were silent and failed to stand up against the Nazi movement, look what happened. Islam is not a peaceful religion; it is a fascist and totalitarian ideology based on a false prophet named Mohammed.
If you have not read this book, you should. Especially those of you who espouse the great way of islam.
The Stoning of Soraya M.
by Freidoune Sahebjam
While stoning is officially prohibited by the fundamentalist regime in Iran, every mullah is free to act as he wants. Muslims cannot stone a human being, but when a woman is accused by her husband – rightly or wrongly – of infidelity, she is no longer considered human. This is the story of Soraya.
However, if you want to laugh yourself silly during the entire movie, see this:
Four Lions (2010)
Director: Christopher Morris
Writers: Christopher Morris, Simon Blackwell
Stars:Will Adamsdale, Riz Ahmed and Adeel Akhtar
I would love to know how everyone defines democracy... I visited many countries in this world, and I think some countries have way more freedoms than we do and enjoy here... Why do we cling to listening to out media outlets as our only source of infomration and refuse to develop our own understanding of others?!
Some countries that I was surprised of how FREE you could be at is an Arab one, Lebanon that is!
Islam is a conservative religion, and conservatism exists in ALL beliefs and religions, why do we call it backward? I have no clue!
Stonings, amputations, forced conversions, beheadings... ring any bells?
Way of hindu's, pagan's, labeled as Christians.
Dean, Conservatism does exist in all religions, but not all conservatives have similar beliefs. I have yet to meet a conservative Christian or Jew whose thinking is at the same level as a Muslim fundamentalist.
There are two novels that present this case in greater detail - king of Bat'ha -- argues the Muslim perspective and - the sequel due out by summer 2012 - Tales from the East: Return of Ivanhoe - argues the Christian perspective.
there is a detailed article in the latest Economist on the same topic. i suppose even a broken clock is right twice a day. Personally, I am rooting for Middle East democracy to take root – there has never been a war between two functioning democracies. think about thsat!!!
Although Zakaria & Professor Chaney my not be entirely accurate on the causes of the democracy deficit, at least they are looking at historical reasons behind democracy's failure to thrive in the Arab world.
It's unfortunate to see the current Administration's lack of vision for a democratic Middle East with these examples:
-Continue to take no clear action in Syria, allowing the regime to enact a brutal crackdown.
-Even if Assad is overthrown in Syria, the Syrian rebels should not count on support by this administration (see Libya, Egypt, and Iraq for examples)
-Eliminated Libyan leadership with no clear plan for supporting a new, struggling democracy
-Ousted Mubarak, only to see a military dictatorship take power in Egypt, with radical religious groups on the fringes, hoping to have Egypt ruled by Sharia Law
-Withdrawing US forces from Iraq with no clear strategy to support the struggling democracy
-Negotiated US withdrawal from Afghanistan, with the Taliban (the group who, 15 years ago, turned Afghanistan into the most vehemently ant-democratic country in the world)
One can hardly blame the current administration for lacking a strategy to clean up the mega-messes created by the previous one with a pie-in-the-sky, I-believe-in-the-toothfairy "strategy". No post war strategy was needed for Iraq..."they would welcome us with flowers", and "the war will pay for itself" come to mind? Puleeeze! The total focus of the previous administration was to intiate a permanent state of war...and it's working! Too much war profiteering to enrich the few at the expense of the taxpayer...hell...these wars weren't even FUNDED!
Democracy is the unrestrained will of the majority. Democracy in the Arab/Muslim world is mysticism and violence.
Secular democratic republics happen just this side of the Renaissance and the Enlightenment. Philosopher and theologian Abu Hāmed Mohammad ibn Mohammad al-Ghazzālī (1058–1111) argued so persuasively for mysticism as the highest value in Islam that the culture has never recovered from his influence. The Arab/Muslim world has gone downhill ever since, and would have less hope than the post-colonial regimes of Africa if not for Big Oil.
There is no democracy in the Arab world, only Muhammad, and Jihad.
Islam and democracy are essentially incompatible.
One of the things that MUST be said about this, is that Arabs love dictators. They do! Will you show me a representive republic in the Arab world? Will you show me a free-willing democracy – in the ARAB world? They like dictators! Iraq doesn't count anymore, we've liberated Iraq.
Not true. The dictators are often puppet regimes supported by outside forces, including the US and England and France. Not the will or choice of the people. It is a simple lack of knowledge that allows so many to believe Arabs prefer dictators. They prefer a paternal system of government when key decisions are made by consensus. A simple study of history of Arab states is in order. As for liberating Iraq . . . pure propaganda. By most measures, the country is worse off today than it was before the first American invasion.
Until recently, Mr. Nasrallah, a Shiite, was a pan-Arab icon. His standing as Hezbollah’s chairman and commander of the 2006 war against Israel elevated him to new heights of popularity among Shiites and Sunnis alike, reminiscent of the former Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser’s political stardom following the nationalization of the Suez Canal in 1956.
Easy to say when the US installs these dictators, don't you think?
It's as if I would say "Poland just loves dictators!", they had Hitler didn't they?
shahin...and they absolutely ADORED Stalin! I like wher you are coming from. Glad to see some sanity in these posts!
Democracy may be one of the worst systems we've ever contrived. But right now, it's the best that we have. Everyone needs to keep working on improving it. Especially here at home, before it is proven to be a complete failure for the rest of the world to witness.
Let's not mention how Iran used to have a democracy but lost it when the almighty US deemed it necessary for Iran to become a dictatorship...
Nah, it's all Islam's fault!
Muslims invaded Iran in the time of Umar (637) and conquered it after several great battles. The last Sassanid ruler, Yazdegerd III, fled from one district to another until a local miller killed him for his purse at Merv in 651. By 674, Muslims had conquered Greater Khorasan (which included modern Iranian Khorasan province and modern Afghanistan and parts of Transoxania). The Islamic conquest of Persia ended the Sassanid Empire and led to the eventual decline of the Zoroastrian religion in Persia. Over time, the majority of Iranians converted to Islam.
EXCELLENT POINT. Both iran/spain are exceptions to this rule.
Zakaria is at it again. He is doing "soft" propaganda as usual, for the benefit of Islam, of course, going all his way to find a remote article. Whenever he talks or invites guests for religion-related topic, I never beleive from the first show I saw. However I do listen if he hosts any non religion-related topics. Now, back to the article: I have lived in many parts of the world for long period of time where islam is majority, so-so and minority. Yes, Indonesia, malaysia, the like feel more democracy than arab nations (though not as much democracy as any non muslim countries). Countries like Indonesia, malaysia and the balkans, still have strong native cultures that balance Islam's archaic-anti-democracy-anti-women-children-abusive rules of law. Islam is, though not whole, a big part of the problem for "good" democracy. Easy to justify. Just open Quran/hadisht/etc. Non democractic verses are plainly written there. We need to acknowledge this first... then we can see how to move on and fix.
the fact that there are muslim countries with democracies proves that Islam IS compatible with democracy, no matter what Islamophobes like yourself may say.
It's simple logic.
Shahin
How can you call the kettle black when you have made multiple hate statements against Arabs, whites, Christians...
You seem to be an equal opportunity hater.
Patrick: please DO quote my "hate" statements when accusing me. If not, shush, will ya?
shahin
It's actually people like you that plague this world. You're a desease.
April 9, 2012 at 4:04 pm |
shahin
Thinker: IRAN DID NOT THREATEN TO DESTROY ISRAEL IN ANY WAY, GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL.
And "shia" is not a nationality or ethnicity, so I don't give a S about what other shia muslims do, Iranians NEVER blow themselves up.
April 10, 2012 at 7:12 am |
shahin
"virtually harmless". If they're that "virtually harmless" I suggest we drop one on your house and see what kind of damage it does. Iran does not need nuclear weapons to do damage.
April 10, 2012 at 7:16 am |
shahin
the guy's a troll who does nothing but copy pasting his idiotic rants...
April 9, 2012 at 4:19 pm |
shahin
What are taliban, al qaeda, al shabab, etc.? Shia?
99% of all muslim terrorist organizations are sunni you dumb F, U, C, K.
April 2, 2012 at 4:08 pm | Reply
shahin
Joseph McCarthy: I'm Iranian and I know fine well how muslims are treated by Western nations. My quarrel is with this arab piece of crap here who just won't admit that the entire Islamic religion is BS, not just "shiazm" (shiism). Most muslim terrorist organizations are sunni and he knows that well enough, still he does nothing but spamming his bs rants about shiites all over the internet. His argument is that many shiites support terrorist organizations, not realizing that those same terrorists RECEIVING support are all SUNNI.
I could have lived with his rants if it was against Islam as a whole, but to call "shiism" evil while saying nothing about Sunni Islam is just plain BS. There are far more extremist sunnis than shias.
April 4, 2012 at 11:16 am |
Islam is deeply anti-woman. Islam is the fundamental cause of the repression of Muslim women and remains the major obstacle to the evolution of their position.[1] Islam has always considered women as creatures inferior in every way: physically, intellectually, and morally. This negative vision is divinely sanctioned in the Koran, corroborated by the hadiths, and perpetuated by the commentaries of the theologians, the custodians of Muslim dogma and ignorance.
While it is certainly true that today's interpretation of Islam's stance towards women by the custodians of Islam is totally backward for today's world, historically it is quite the opposite. Until the 19th Century women in some parts of the Islamic world had more rights than their European counterparts. For example, as any reader of Jane Austin attests, women in Europe could not inherit while since c. 600 AD they could in the East.
The laws in Leviticus may seem outdated if applied to today's world, as do some aspects of the Shariah but mostly it is the culturally backward interpretation and the Islamic clergy's failure to guide their people to prosperity that has wrapped the Islamic world in the dark ages (as had happened with Christianity centuries before).
Why is it necessary to focus on the Islamic world (again)?
As if the rest of the world is so democratic!
How 'bout the dozens of African countries (WITH christian populations) that can't seem to develop democracies? How 'bout the dozens of Asian countries that prefer socialism?
You only seem to care about the muslim world when it comes to democracy when the fact is that Except for Western countries very few other countries have perfectly functioning democracies. So many of you try to blame this on religion or culture but fail to see that democracy only seems to work in wealthy countries. What good is a vote to someone who can't afford his daily meal? How much easier wouldn't it be for that same person to support populist movements (religious fanatics, socialists, dictators, etc.) who promise wealth and strength?
The Western values of democracies only managed to develop because after the 16th century Western countries grew wealthy and decadent due to colonization and imperialism. That's why Westerners found the luxury to reflect on their political systems. The West had to do some nasty things to get where it stands now but the problem is that we can't expect present day "undemocratic" countries to do the same, because that would be morally wrong.
Shahin, you say "Why is it necessary to focus on the Islamic world (again)?"
Because, the islamic world is the one causing most of the problems (again).
"most of the problems" are just 200 years of exploitation by the West backfiring.
Western world decides to create a jewish nation on arab soil => consequence: terrorism
US overthrows Iran's democracy and installs a dictatorship => consequence: Iranian anti-US government
US funds psychopathic islamic fanatics to fight "communism" => consequence: Taliban in Afghanistan
US illegally invades Iraq => consequence: terrorism
etc. etc.
But somehow, you only manage to see the consequences, not the root of the problem. Don't worry, it's a syndrome most Americans suffer from.
The root problem in the Arab world and Syria is the hate propagated through the Qu'ran.
Here are a few quotes, there are hundreds more:
Qur'an 2:61 "Humiliation and wretchedness were stamped on the Jews and they were visited with Allah's wrath."
Qur'an 4:44 "Have you not considered those to whom a portion of the Book has been given? They traffic in error and desire that you should go astray. But Allah has full knowledge of your enemies. Of the Jews there are those who displace words from their (right) places, saying, 'We hear and we disobey' with a twist of their tongues they slander Faith.... Allah has cursed them for disbelief."
Qur'an 4:47 "O you People of the Book to whom the Scripture has been given, believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming and verifying what was possessed by you, before We destroy your faces beyond all recognition, turning you on your backs, and curse you as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be executed."
Qur'an 4:160 "For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) in that they hindered many from Allah's Way, that they took usury, though they were forbidden, and that they devoured men's wealth on false pretenses, We have prepared for those among them who reject [Islamic] Faith a painful doom."
Qur'an 5:59 "Say: 'People of the Book! Do you disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in Allah, and the revelation that has come to us and that which came before?' Say: 'Shall I point out to you something much worse than this by the treatment it received from Allah? Those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom He transformed into apes and swine."
Qur'an 2:64 "But you [Jews] went back on your word and were lost losers. So become apes, despised and hated. We made an example out of you."
Ishaq:240 "The Jews are a nation of liars.... The Jews are a treacherous, lying, and evil people."
Qur'an 33:26 "Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before."
Ishaq:250 "The bestial transformation occurred when Allah turned Jews into apes, despised."
Qur'an 59:14 "The Jews are devoid of sense. There is a grievous punishment awaiting them. Satan tells them not to believe so they will end up in Hell."
Ishaq:254
Qur'an 2:96 "We will not remove a Jew from the punishment. They know the shameful thing that awaits them."
Qur'an 4:55 "Sufficient for the Jew is the Flaming Fire!"
Qur'an 88:1 "Has the narration reached you of the overwhelming (calamity)? Some faces (all disbelievers, Jews and Christians) that Day, will be humiliated, downcast, scorched by the burning fire, while they are made to drink from a boiling hot spring."
Tabari VIII:116 "After his return from Hudaybiyah, Allah's Messenger marched against Khaybar. He halted with his army in a valley between the people of Khaybar and the Ghatafan tribe to prevent the latter from assisting the Jews."
Ishaq:264 "A notable Jew spoke to the Apostle, twisting his tongue. He attacked Islam and reviled it, so Allah sent down, 'Allah knows best about your enemies. Some of the Jews change words from their contexts and say: "We hear and disobey," twisting their tongues and attacking the religion so Allah cursed them.'"
Tabari VIII:121 "Ali struck the Jew with a swift blow that split his helmet, neck protector, and head, landing in his rear teeth. And the Muslims entered the city. Muhammad conquered the [Jewish] neighborhood. Safiyah was brought to him, and another woman with her. Bilal led them past some of the Jews we had slain including the woman's dead husband. When she saw them, the woman with Safiyah cried out, slapped her face, and poured dust on her head. When Allah's Prophet saw her, he said, 'Take this she-devil away from me!'"
Bukhari:V4B53N380 "Umar expelled all the Jews and Christians from Arabia. Allah's Apostle after conquering Khaybar thought of expelling the Jews from the land which, after he conquered it, belonged to Allah, Allah's Apostle and the Muslims. But the Jews requested Allah's Apostle to leave them there on the condition that they would do the labor and get half of the fruits (the land would yield). Allah's Apostle said, 'We shall keep you on these terms as long as we wish.' Thus they stayed till the time of Umar's Caliphate when he expelled them."
Tabari VIII:130 "The Messenger said during his final illness, 'Two religions cannot coexist in the Arabian Peninsula.' Umar investigated the matter, then sent to the Jews, saying: 'Allah has given permission for you to be expelled; for I have received word that the Prophet said that two religions cannot coexist in Arabia."
Ishaq:517 "Khaybar was stormed by the Apostle's squadron, fully armed, powerful, and strong. It brought certain humiliation with Muslim men in its midst. We attacked and they met their doom. Muhammad conquered the Jews in fighting that day as they opened their eyes to our dust."
Ishaq:524 "We cannot accept the oaths of Jews. Their infidelity is so great they swear falsely."
Qur'an 59:14 "They [Jews] will not fight against you save in fortified townships. Their hostility and hatred amongst themselves is strong: you would think they were united, but their hearts they are divided. That is because these [Jews] are a people devoid of sense."
Ishaq:245 "Do you love Jews and their religion, you liver-hearted ass, and not Muhammad? Their religion will never march with ours.... Jews make false professions about Islam. So Allah sent down: 'Satan wishes to lead them astray."
Ishaq:248 "Allah increases their sickness. A tormented doom awaits the Jews. Allah said, 'They are mischief makers. They are fools. The Jews deny the truth and contradict what the Apostle has brought. I will mock them and let them continue to wander blindly.'"
Tabari VII:158 "The Messenger of Allah besieged the Nadir Jews for fifteen days. In the end they made peace with him on the condition that the Prophet would not shed their blood and that their property and possessions would be his."
Qur'an 5:13 "But because of their breach of their covenant We cursed the Jews, and made their hearts grow hard. They change the words from their (right) places [the illiterate prophet pronounced] and forget and abandon a good part of the message that was sent them. Nor will you cease to find deceit in them. And because of their breaking their covenant We have cursed them. They altered words from their context and they neglected a portion of the message they were reminded of."
Africa is mostly Muslim, not Christian.
Ron Jon: there are no real statistics that prove this. Present day estimations say that muslims and christians are equally divided in Africa, about 40% of the population, each.
Is Mr Chaney aware that the persecution and murder of Christians and other minorities are officially sanctioned in the "functioning democratic systems" of Turkey, Albania etc? These countries might have elected executives and legislators but Islam corrupts their conduct. Do not pretend that these countries equate to Western democracies.
Turkey murders and persecutes Christians? Wow, did you just suck that out of your àrse?
Discrimination, slander and attacks against churches were among the examples of ongoing harassment that the Turkish Association of Protestant Churches (TEK) recorded in 2010.
davoodjani: same can be said of mosques in the US... that doesn't mean democracy is flawed.
Shahin, The number of mosques in the US and the Islamic population is increasing, The same cannot be said about the situation for Christians or Jews in any Islamic country.
ytuque: that's not the point. Point is that they complain about agression towards christians when the fact is that there's also agression towards muslims in christian countries. It doesn't have anything to do with democracy.
What a great piece of research this is. The period of Islamic conquest that caused a "weak civil society" was in reality the golden age for this society, with a surge in science and trade that still leaves its influence today. "Arab imperial control" never was strong and arguably had already fractured by the 9th century – in reality very few lands were "arab controlled" by the 12th century, with most conquered lands under Turkish, Persian or Berber control. The "small detail" of de Mongol invasions in the 13th century and their impact on civil society on the other hand aren't even considered. And even more conveniently, the impact of the "peace to end all peace" and subsequent occupation/colonisation that actually created the nations in question and set the stage for the turmoil-filled middle east that we know today is considered irrelevant; the thesis of "roots going back over a thousand years" obviously being more plausable. If understanding of the past is required to grasp the present, then there truly is no hope.
100% correct John.
JohnC, et al, it is interesting to consider that the beliefs (religions?) of early civilizations each had multiple deities to explain things, yet very few material elements (earth, wind, water, fire). Today we have a "periodic table" with over a hundred elements, but appear to have narrowed our deities down to maybe a handful. Point is that beliefs in deities become "mythology" and don't change much of anything. Yet science and technology can almost change the world overnight. And here lies the danger. Putting the power of god into intelligent beings is one thing, but putting it into the hands of humans is another. Hope is questionable, agreed, but not yet completely lost. I don't pray to a god, I pray there is a god.
Totally agree John. The author in question is a economist btw not a historian, which explains the great quality of this research more than the 'democratic deficient' in the Arab world.
"He asks whether Arab culture is the culprit, but this does not provide much clarity." Notice how deftly Zakaria sidesteps the obvious question? Perhaps, measuring these non-democratic Islamic countries by cultures as in how close they are to the Arabs might be insightful. Having been to Turkey as well as several Arab countries, the Turks are pretty far from the Arabs culturally. I assume this separation and the influence of Ataturk is what saved the Turks from being like the Arabs.
Islam is to blame. Muhammad was a totalitarian conqueror who wanted to expand his power at all costs. That's the role model after which Muslims are shaped. It's a religion of war founded by a war monger.
Fareed has raised an excellent question. Perhaps it is a futile effort to promote democracy in the Arab nations. Nato bombed Libya to get rid of Khadafi, but the country remains a bloodymess.
Democracy, prosperity and peace as know them in "the West" all arise from deeply rooted European cultural values; respect of others, the work ethic and Christian morality. Muslims do not share these values, they have other beliefs.
Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysian and Bangladesh are only fragile democracies at best and relatively poor countries. Indeed if it wasn't for petroleum, Malaysia and Indonesia would probably be just as dirt poor as Bangladesh, and Turks continue to emigrate to the EU to take up low-paying jobs.
You started out well but your middle paragraph just seems incomplete. You left out the role of the acquisition of personal wealth in the modern Christian religion. That made a huge difference compared to religions that promote humility. As for a work ethic I think that is pretty common in all societies. Look at China! Their work ethic is far superior to the West. And and as respect for other humans I think the native populations for both America's and Australia will be surprised to hear that, not to mention large parts of Africa that were raided for slaves. Sorry but Christian morals aren't anything to brag about. It wasn't that long ago that the Blacks weren't allowed to vote or even sit in the same area as white people in the US. And this was in what is supposedly the most advanced Christian society in history.
African internal slave trade is the oldest in the world, since some of the oldest civilizations/communities are in Africa. But in terms of external trades and forced exodus of Africans the Arab trade is the oldest as far as Africa is concerned. And its influences are still responsible for the social status of African people especially in Sudan and Mauritania.
Arab enslavement of Africans was radically different from its European counterpart. It was more complex and varied depending on time and place. Thus the slavery seen in Iraq with the Zanj/Zinj was not similar to slavery in Zanzibar but more akin to the Slavery in the America's. Also 'Arab' is not a racial group, some Arabs are African and some are White and Jewish. (Mizrahi which includes Syrian, Iraqi, Persian, Kurdish, Egyptian, Moroccan, and Tunisian Jews)
The west played a huge role on the "democracy deficient" in the Arab World. First, the west installed the illegitimate country of Israel, to suppress any glimpse of hope for progress in the Arab world. Second, the west installed their puppet regimes to represent the west's agenda's, and they supported fanatic religious people to fight their wars in Afghanistan and other Muslim countries.
United State is the leader for counter revolution in the Arab world now. American, HATES to see democratic governments in the Arab world.
Fareed, I truly believe that you lack the basics knowledge of the political conditions in the Arab world. For me you are not and you have never been an intellectual. Your program serves a business purpose and has no intellectual value.
I advise Fareed to stick to the American trivial issues, because he servers no benefit to the American audience with his opinions on Arab issues.
Yeah, blame the west for all of the Arab world's problems..... Israel has only been around since 1948, and the high water mark for Arab civilization was in the 14th century.
Make no mistake about it, the Arab will NEVER see democracy unless:
1. Abolishing the illegitimate country of Israel
2. Getting rid of the puppet Arab regimes
3. A real change in the West, where people look for real democracy, not the interest of rich people and the weapons traders.
If you are concerned about what's is going on, just look at the struggle of Arabs and their revolutions. The regimes are the resisting party here, NOT the people. People are killed every day. But, you have the regimes who have the power and support of the west.
There's an old maxim "a people get the government they deserve." Maybe the Arabs have bad government because it's what they deserve? A change in government can only be driven by a change in their culture as I see it.
WHY NO ARAB DEMOCRACIES? ASK MATT DAMON AND GEORGE CLOONEY IN THE FILM "SYRIANA".
that's Hollywood MrCooltard
Democracy means, power of choice, Choice in hindu Judaism , criminal self center ism, secularism, is way of hindu's, deniers of truth absolute, western democracy is based on hindu Judaism, criminal self center ism, of hindu dark ages, way of hindu's, ignorant's, a crime against huamnity and truth absolute, 360*. why should truth full follower's follow it? Do you have have an answer?
This man is totally out of whack.Most of these muslim nations that practice some form of democracy have an open education.This includes English education.It broadens the childrens mind.How many other muslim countries have that.When you teach your children in your language and your religion you do not expect their views to change.These muslims are not willing to take a view of the modern world.Their insecurity restricts them to what they know.They will cling to that.
Are you kidding?
Let's see, I have taught in 6 different Muslim countries. The schools I have taught in are international/American curriculum schools for both e pat student and host country students. World history is censored. Text books are destroyed or altered with a black marker to alter world history. Arab teachers are weak and very poor role models for their students and often will encourage students' hate speech. I will never forget the reaction of students and teachers after 911 in a majority Palestinian school. I could go on and on but don't ever think that there is open education in Islamic countries.
You are going in the right direction: EDUCATION at SCHOOL AND HOME: I would look no further than a few generations of education, as applied in the home and school for Middle East solutions. Do they make children learn rote, repeating word by word the adults words, or do they take questions from 5 and 10 years olds. Having lived in the Middle East for 11 years I sense a lack of communication among the generations. Rote learning has been condemned for generations in the West. Are children beaten during disciplining regularly or are alternative methods applied. Is corporal punishment encouraged in the schools, having been eliminated in the West?
Because pure democracy is a utopia, just like pure socialism or pure any political system for that matter. They don't exist. Or do you want to tell me that it exists in the dysfunctional U.S.?
Also democracies don't work for everybody. Different societies cherish different values. For some, socialism is the way to go, for others dictatorship is the only way to control the people. There's no right or wrong here. We always have to consider the political system within its context.
Because they don't WANT democracy! HEL-LO!!! They want the Koran!
so people are so fvcking stupid! (Kim Jong iL in TA)
It's because of the tribal basis of Arab culture. When your vision of collective life revolves around nested power hierarchies of family, clan, tribe, kingdom, and you believe that rank rightfully has its privileges and is thus something to aspire to, then you will embrace the notion that it's good ta be da king and that kings can do what they want. The recent freedom events in the muslim world are an incursion of European Enlightenment culture into this traditional environment, with the resulting fireworks.
What an incredibly racist article this is! There is an absolute absence of any analysis of how western (British, French, American) military, political and economic interference in the Arab world throughout the 20th century may in fact have thwarted civil society in this part of the world. Look at the similarities between Lebanon, Syria, Israel, Palestine, Egypt and Saudi Arabia in regards to the West's historical influence in bolstering dictactors. That is no small influence.
Egypt => Mubarak, US sponsored dictator
Iraq => Saddam, US sponsored dictator
Iran => Shah, US sponsored dictator
Afghanistan => Taliban, former Mujahedin, US sponsored terrorist organization
Saudi Arabia => Royal family, US sponsored dictators
and the list goes on and on, not just muslim countries but Asian, Latin American and African countries as well...
Can you prove any of these assertions you are making, or...
Shall demoncracy kill islamic terrorism?
Islam, way of truth absolute 360* will eliminate hinduism, denial of truth absolute and hindu's, terrorist, have no doubt about it hindu, ignorant.
Now who has decided that democracy is the best for everybody? Did they try something different? Or is it like: I have got the best car in the world, everybody should want the same! ?
Too many anarchy, too many ruined lives, too many blood for a stupid idea – which cannot even be implemented properly without politicians, lawyers and simply reach screwing it up and abusing. So what is the point in going wasting people lives and resources trying to prolifirate the stupid thing!
You´d better take a look into Europe´s past. Denouncing the value of Democracy seems to me like a call for dictatorship. We had enough of that for all eternity to come. To the matter of the article: I think the author is inching into the right direction. Take a look at the Inovations made in Europe after abandoning the more or less theocratical rule in the Age of Enlightenment. This phase has yet to happen in the Islamic World. Further more it´s not a matter of giving up the believe, no it´s simply the realisation of a fact: There is nothing perfect in this world, and were you see imperfection there is also the posibility for improvement. So far any religous fanatic is bound to believe he know´s better than everybody else. Or could he or she conduct or even applaude a suicide bombing while reflecting about the ultimate imperfection which is part of everyone:-) even me.
Josh, exactly! I look into Europe's present and it makes me sick!
a culture with an understanding of and prioritization of the inherent rights of the individual – to life, to liberty and to pursue their interests without consulting others so long as that doesn't interfere with the equivalent rights of others – is a requirement. It produces superior results to cultures that subordinate those inherent individual rights to the collective interests of the group, as identified by those who happen to hold power within the group at the moment. This is the fundamental challenge that the Reformation and the Enlightenment pose to all prior human history (with some exceptions like classical Athens, whose ideas were rediscovered in the European Renaissance). Democracy – the notion that the collective of free individuals, called the People, own the state and select their fellows to serve them within the structure of the state – flows naturally from a culture and society that already understand these concepts.
What about China? Even if you discount their more recent 'freedoms' they've always been a hugely successful and dominant society and they did so without the mechanisms that you describe. I think the west (especially the US) needs to recognize that their system may not be the best for everybody. It works for our cultural and religious beliefs, but that doesn't mean it will work for everybody, nor that they should even try.
Well, I think Karl got it right. All I can say. All these long sentenses do nothing to me. Sorry.
Democracy matters not in the least. What matters is what values do the people of these countries hold? Do they follow law and order or mob rule? Do they value only one religion or allow multiple religions to flourish? Do they give women equal rights or do they hold them hostage in their homes? Democracy is a tool and apparently so is Fareed Zakaria.
Totally agree with you Karl. Democracy is just another branded idea nobody actually bothers to challenge. The culture is far more important. So the actual state governance sistem has nearly no consequence. So exporting democtracy to other countries solves nothing, it does not change culture, it only brings anarchy, destruction and death.
This analysis provides a few plausible deep historical causes. But it's seem to totally ignore present day geo-politics where the reigning great-powers, in this case the US and allies can't afford to let go of control in this energy rich region. Hence they prop up repressive regimes, making it even harder for democracy to sprout in a region that apparently has the historical odds against it.
nobody bother about demo'crazy when dictator mubarak rule the egypt....!!!
So what the article basically says is that it is indeed Mohammed and Islam, which is responsible for the incapability of democracy. Democracies in islamic countries are only possible, if the country has come under islamic rule just a few centuries ago.
This indicates a long-term negative impact of Islam on affected cultures.
Democracy means, power of choice, Choice in hindu Judaism , criminal self center ism, secularism, is way of hindu's, deniers of truth absolute, western democracy is based on hindu Judaism, criminal self center ism, of hindu dark ages, way of hindu's, ignorant's, a crime against huamnity and truth absolute, 360*. why should truth full follower's of truth absolute follow it? It is not Mohammad or Islam, but hinduism, ignorance of hindu's, uneducated cause of problem, imposing their hindu soul, filthy desire as hindu sanatan's, criminal goons pretending to be man god's.
Before you go into your hindu bashing mantra, perhaps you should learn to write coherently first. Such personal attacks should have no place on a forum like this.
hinduism, denial of truth is very personal, nothing is wrong to remind a hindu, denier of truth of his hinduism, criminality.
This is such a flawed piece of history and relating it to present days politics. Causality between the first Islamic empires and present day democratic 'deficiency' can go in many ways. A much more likely causality is that since the collapse of the Arab Islamic empires the arab peoples have been ruled by the Ottomans, the British and now the Americans. Either way this is type of research isn't giving history a good name, nor Fareed Zakira.
I thought the point of the article is that the countries that were invaded by Arab armies converted to a form of military law that is still in control today. All other forms of government were completely destroyed centuries ago. The military still runs the countries but the leaders are changed by competing, outside influences.
What’s democracy do we have a solid definition of it? For ancient Greeks it was a power of citizens not including women and slaves. So understanding of democracy dramatically differs in time and space.
What’s religion? You can blame any religion for something. Blame Christianity for burning people alive for example. Any religion can be used to cover good or bad things. Mentality and habits are maters. Take closer look at the people you talking about try to understand them.
Democracy is not for animals or those living in the stone age.
then you should pack your bags and leave.
Democracy means, power of choice, Choice in hindu Judaism , criminal self center ism, secularism, is way of hindu's, deniers of truth absolute, western democracy is based on hindu Judaism, criminal self center ism, of hindu dark ages, way of hindu's, ignorant's, a crime against huamnity and truth absolute, 360*. why should truth full follower's follow it?
This guy is a moron who is pretends to be expert of everything. Writing a piece of crab. Everybody knows why there
is a deficiency of freedom or democracy. Look at saudi,Kuwat,Qatar or Bahrain or egypt. These are buddies of USA.
Label radical, on path of self soul. desire is innovation of hind's, ignorant s in their hinduism, ignorance to the fact, a truth full Muslim never follows his soul, desire but always in following of truth absolute 360*, the limit most high. Either authors has no knowledge of fact's, truth or is following hindu, ignorant line of hinduism ignorance like a gentile, slave in his hindu Judaism, ignorant self center ism..
Fareed Zhakari is one of the few journalists who is willing to look deep for logical explanations and he does so without the usual over-the-top bombast that seems to be so popular in the media. Chaney's observations about governments conquered by the Arabs is fascinating and worth considering. To tell the truth I was expecting that the west would be implicated in the problem so it's good that someone has taken a step back and looked for earlier events to find the cause. It makes sense that nations conquered by force would tend to be initially governed by a sort of martial law, which usually dismantles all previous forms of governance. After a long enough time, military rule and limited governing becomes part of the state's heritage.
The paper was written by a economist, not a historian. The Arab empires were in place until 1250, leaving a 750 (!) year gap of other forms of government, including rule by the Mamluks, Ottomans, British and American vazal regimes. It might play a small role in the overall picture. But I find drawing these conclusion ridiculous to be quite frank, and a profound misuse of science. This research proves absolutely nothing.
Fares Raslan MD
خبر عاجل وهام جدا جدا ::::::
تقوم المخابرات العامة في دمشق بأخذ كميات من الدم الفاسد من المشافي الحكومية الى افرع السجون حيث يتم حقن المعتقل بكمية 5 سم من هذا الدم وعلى اثرها يتوفى وفاة طبيعة /يرجى النشر لجمعيات حقوق الانسان/
By: شبكة اخبار حمص العدية (عاصمة الثورة السورية)
reliable sources from my collegues syrian doctors in syria .
the intelligence services in syria are collecting spoiled blood and injecting forcefully prisioners with 5 ml of it to let them die naturally ...please share to human rights watch and all human organizations around the world ....
also they are sending 50 truks aday since 3 months ago those trucks going to hizboallah south of lebanon , full of weapons , cash, arms, rockets, and some chemical weapons please take a note this is an eye wotness ....why no body is doing any thing to those thugs , war criminal shiia thugs?
I once had a political philosophy professor tell me that democracy is a habit that takes a society at least 3 generations to stabilize. Look to early American history after 1788, it took about 40 or 50 years to get things somewhat stable. Longer if you consider that a Civil War was fought...that is pretty unstable.
thanks for not publishing my appends
Democracy is essentially power to sheepley, freedom to rich and free lunches to politicians. Why does not it work for Arabs? Does it really work for anybody? Any proof?
What’d you prefer? Proletarian Dictatorship?
Now you are talking about liberal dreams, right?
I have been there, unlike you. That is why I hate all that liberal-democracy crap! It leads to socialism trap – I can see that, I can recognize its ugly face! I have seen the end of the road you are travelling!
He does all the hypothesizing but then leaves out half the equation! What about the innate ability of the people in these countries! It offends us, so it must not be true.
What "innate ability of the people"?
Do not leave out the part of the equation you are asking for.
Read the article yourself
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/Programs/ES/BPEA/2012_spring_bpea_papers/2012_spring_BPEA_chaney.pdf
It doesn't even mention contemporary geopolitical factors in explaining the 'democratic deficit', e.g. interference by other great powers in the region.
And check out the equation on page 6, it is laughable. This is clearly not peer reviewed history, sociology or political science, it probably won't even get published in a economics journal even though Chaney is a Prof in Economics. Fareed and CNN you are really disappointing me here giving this piece of junk-science so much credit.
I wrote a whole piece but it's not showing up for some reason
ok short excerpt. Arab world in the same situation as South America. Post world war two US foreign policy favors dictators over what it termed "radical nationalists" especially those of a leftish persuasion.Basically US policy towards the ME is a continuation of the European policy towards the region.No democracy,no development,in order to maintain control of the regions energy reserves.Greatest material prize in history and of enormous strategic importance.
One can even say that it's not the Middle East that has a democracy deficit considering the mass popular uprisings we' ve seen defying the most brutal crackdowns by totalitarian rulers.But that it's actually the Western world the US in particular that has a democracy deficit as it seems that US policy tends to not follow public opinion.So for example a vast majority of Americans might want to withdraw from Afghanistan but US policy will not follow. Or vast majorities want a peaceful solution to the Iran nuclear issue while Obama keeps "all options on the table" which is a threat of violence banned under international law.
Democracy is compatible with a caucasian Christian society. It doesn't work among inferior peoples or inferior religions or beliefs. I wish this wasn't the facts, but it is. We need to start approching the world armed with reality and not wishful thinking.
rutgart, I don't know what you're smoking, but women in Saudi Arabia don't have it better than India. India has had a woman Prime Minister, a woman President, and is ahead of even the US when it comes to many issues relating to women. The society in India is multimodal, so the poorer segments see a lot of inequities, but among more developed, urban groups, women are very advanced. There's simply no comparison with the Saudis.
Of course it isn't just RADICAL Islam that is responsible for the Middle East's 'democracy deficit – Islam as a whole is responsible for the backwardness of the entire Muslim world. Islam has been a plague on the world since Muhammad was driven out of Mecca in 622 since he was making a nuisance of himself. He and his followers have been making a HUGE nuisance of themselves ever since...
What, no mention of how these governments were put in place by and supported by Western powers? Egypt was not a democracy because the US wanted it that way. We overthrew a democracy in Iran, We prop up Saudi Arabia. If any culture is to blame, its not Arab.
"we prop up Saudi Arabia"
Okay
1. Who is "we"?
2. Explain how "we" is propping up KSA.
Chaney is a bigot. He wants to blame democracy deficit on 'the Arab culture.' That's thinly veiled racism.
I disagree. I think the Arabs have every chance to choose democracy. The one element that stands in their way is Islam.
Islam is not something that can't be chosen, like race. It is chosen by people who are perhaps afraid to die if they don't.
Islam is not just a religion. It is a political and economic system. It is Sharia. Islam IS sharia, and sharia is Islam. It can not evolve, because it is expressly forbidden to undertake evolution. Try it and die.
The idea the the little list of countries is 'democratic' is highly suspect. For instance, could you form a political party in those countries that would dismantle the sharia system of law? In those countries, are you allowed to freely try to persuade people to take another religion? Can you openly criticize the government?
Voting was allowed in the old Soviet Union, as well. Want to claim that Communism is democratic?
Even in Malaysia, which is one of the example apologists give as an example for an Islamic democracy, you can not be a citizen unless you are a Muslim. Try to get a permit to build a Christian church there.
I think we should properly define democracy, so the term can only be used by real democracies.
The Arabs and muslims are learning from the thesis below and trying to evolve a paradigm that is more suitable to their culture, temperament and unique conditions. After all, democracy is not one size fits all as is evident with failures in India.
"Experimental Democracy" has failed in India. An experiment that was being shoved down India's throat by western countries too eager to propagate their own values on a country that was trying to decolonize itself while trying to shed the communist skin of being a Soviet ally. India was thus trapped. What has become evident now is that this "Experimental Democracy" has marginalized the country. The marginalized groups of the country – Dalits and ‘backward’ castes/classes, indigenous ‘tribal’ people and religious minorities have been disenfranchised. "The belief that corruption is the important issue in the country is shared only by the minority living in urban areas and towns who have been beneficiaries of economic liberalization policies mandated by western countries. The most important challenges of Indian society remain as follows: justice, social and economic equality and equal access to certain standards of life for all Indians. “While India seems too eager to please its western masters and put on a progressive and softer face for CNN for public consumption, people see through it. The consequences of this "Band – Aid" approach will be brutal for India geo-politically when it realizes that the GDP statistics that it has been relying to gage its progress has not amounted to much in the long run.
YOU said "failures in India"
Can you explain what you mean?
Ya, hinduism, racism, crime against humanity, Yes, India is a democracy but in hind, filth of hinduism, racism. not of truth but of hindu soul, filthy desire of hidnu's, criminal racist by faith.
Indonesia is the only true democracy in the region, free and fair elections. But it is young no one can tell, you have al-Qaida (we killed them all) in cahoots with ex military and serving, trying to kill the President. SBY said they wanted to turn it into Iran. There are numerous factors, ideological differences, geopolitical. You just cannot say who it will turn out and that is to be expected of a new democracy. Many forces at work.
SBY was told about the US Marines years ago, the Cocos they were not, Obama wants to be careful so does the Australians they will end up with a weakened declining defender US and a nuclear Indonesia and find them in a similar position to Israel. Albeit Israel is vastly superior militarily, than the Wizard of OZ.
Things like the Cocos and lack of consultation work against SBY and the moderates, in fact it turns moderates hostile, I know it does me, start looking at counters. It made me uncomfortable.
For Reality their muslim will burn their irrelevant primitive islamic books.
For Reality their muslim will eliminate islam that cage enslave their lives.
For Human Beings their muslim will sacrifice islam as foretold by islam itself.
Even their islamic allah feels Boring to hear the same islamic prayer in sorrow 5 times a day from noisy mosques.
Just turn off the loudspeaker mosques the noisy pollution the soul pollution only bring chaos conflicts all violence.
For Human Beings Sacrifice islam! Crucify islam!
See The Better Worlds Without islam the terrorist religion from the wrong past.
There cannot be Democracy in a Theocracy.
Anyone trying to complicate this fact wants to have both, and it just can't happen.
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Dire qu'il faut être professeur pour dire des âneries pareilles pour plaire et manipuler la moitié d'analphabètes qui peuplent les urnes! Rien de plus malhonnête intellectuellement que de faire le dangereux amalgame entre le pouvoir de Mo'awiya (les omeyades qui ont inventé le pouvoir héréditaire en terre d'islam) mais qui n'a rien à voir avec l'authenticité de l'Islam pour construire cette supercherie analytique. Mais de la part d'un anglophone c'est excusable puisque les musulmans des monarchies et des républiques héréditaires se taisent sur le sujet.