By Fareed Zakaria, CNN
The drug wars dominate the discussion in Mexico and in many border states in America as well. There have been nearly 50,000 drug-related killings in Mexico since President Felipe Calderón began his six-year term. That's more than twice as many civilian deaths in the same period in Afghanistan.
Calderón is widely viewed as having blundered in taking on the drug cartels. But I have always admired his courage in doing so. And it might just be paying rewards.
Robert Bonner is a former U.S. drug enforcement official and he's also served as a commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection. In a recent op-ed as well as a forthcoming Foreign Affairs assay, Bonner argues that despite the negative headlines, President Calderón has made huge gains against the drug lords.
Bonner's point is that when Calderón came to power, Mexico's half-dozen cartels were making up to $10 billion in annual revenue from drugs alone. They bribed officials and the police. Those they could not bribe, they killed. Calderón had no existing means to defeat them so he enlisted the military, a group force that could target cartel leaders and win in an all-out gun battle.
Fifty thousand lives is a heavy price to pay, but this was never going to be an easy war. The cartels had almost taken over Mexico. (More: Mexico drug war – Bodies for billions)
Now the data proves Bonner's point. It seems the tide is finally turning. Using Calderón's strategy, the Mexican government has killed more than 40 major cartel members. The Economist magazine points out that between 2007 and 2008, the number of drug-related killings in Mexico rose by 29 percent. In the next two years, it rose by 22 percent, then by 28 percent. Last year, however, there were signs of a plateau with only an 8 percent rise.
With many cartels now severely weakened, that number could fall further. A Pew poll conducted last spring shows that 45 percent of Mexicans believe the government is making progress against the cartels; 83 percent support Calderón's strategy of using the army to fight them.
When a government forcefully commits to take on an internal terrorist or drug group, it usually wins. This is what happened in Colombia over the last decade and it will likely happen in Mexico over the next few years as long as Calderon's successor stays with the fight.
The Mexican elections begin in July and Calderón steps down in December. If Mexico's children are indeed to grow up in safer conditions, then its leaders need to continue to press on in the war on drugs.
Even Mexicans who have lived with the violence agree on one thing - some action is better than the previous policy of no action at all.
Of course, success in Mexico probably means the cartels will move to Central America. Guatemala is already becoming the next frontier.
You see, then the richest country in the world has an insatiable demand for drugs. Someone is going to produce them and meet that demand...but that's for another post.
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For more insight into this read the novel - king of Bat'ha - and the sequel due out summer 2012 -- Tales from the East: Return of Ivanhoe.
Possibly the most obnoxious type of post, the "hey, read this book for my opinion" post.
There should be capital punishment for these drug barons and big fish.
YEAH! You tell him! It should be OBVIOUS from the quality of posts here on CNN (including YOURS!) that most everyone in here is illiterate! The NERVE...telling people to read!
@j. von hettlingen Make that capital punishment for OUR junkies and you may accomplish something!
@ John n Seattle, Yeah! guess we'll add you to the "list" of illiterates!
The failure of the Mexican government to reduce the level of violence within its own borders
is a direct threat to the United States .Illegal immigration and crime are linked .
The federal government won't protect U.S. workers, local communities and
taxpayers from illegal immigration . Push your state representative to make a change .
Google this: NUMBERSUSA .
Once you are registered, go to the "action board" to send free faxes to your state representative.
They are all typed up and ready to go, you just need to click your mouse to send.
jamie: why would you want to execute junkies?
yeah the best way is to IGNORE it, not fuel it by your troll like post, thats the problem lately with online posts, no one hardly ever stays on the topic at hand, and is always willing to bash someones post. Why dont you try to comment on the article next time buddy! or just dont at all. Did that comment make you feel all good inside? LMAO
What a gutless and thoughtless post you made.
He's gutless for recommending a book? Is this a fight or something?
I read the post here and I get sick to my stomach, Americans take “no responsibility for the drug war” is always the other guy, but they are the consumers the drug cartels are catering to. If Mexico kicks the cartels out, what do you think is going to happen? They will move somewhere else, and keep doing business as usual, and Dirty Americans will continue buying the stuff. And more deaths and more misery will affect the staging areas, If not Mexico, then Guatemala, Canada, or some other step country.
Yes Americans are the only ones who use drugs. Get over yourself and realize that you can't legislate morality in the home and you might see an end to the cartels.
Prohibition is the cause of cartels not drug use. Legalize, regulate, and tax all illegal drugs and you will see a sharp decline in usage, incarceration, and deaths. Also, the additional tax revenue would be nice. But hey, that is a too easy a solution. We wouldn't want to do that now would we. Best to just keep telling people what they can and can't do and let the chips (or bodies in this case) fall where they may. FKNTOOL.
There are plenty of drug users in Europe, Asia, Africa, etc. The only way to eliminate the middle men is legalize and sell it on the open market like any other commodity. The reason deaths are down is that most involved are either already dead or already being paid off, hence no need to kill more.
Marijuana grows wonderfully here in the states. If it were legal, we could grow our own, as the west coast has more than figured out. Domestic bud is 100x superior to import. That mexi-schwag is not worth buying.
wow dr dr.....dirty americans? I think we may be the CLEANEST country, well behaved, etc....how many roadside bombs do you have to worry about in America? How many drug cartels that are far DIRTIER than Americans are in America running around killing at random? Think before you say uneducated things.
You bet I don't take responsibility! I do not now and have NEVER in the past, bought drugs, done drugs or sold drugs! I have lived a long and rewarding life without illegal substances. What I DON'T understand is why the millions that DO take them, sell them, etc., do it in the first place!
Prohibition sure worked. When will we learn from our history? You people are blind, controlled by people that make laws that help themselves. Every single politician had alcohol sent to their offices during prohibition. What they say and what they do are two different things. And these are the people you turn to for your opinion. When will the scare tactics on marijuana stop? 60 percent of the cartels profits come from marijuana, DEA fact. You take 60 percent of a companies profits guess what happens to it?
Big George: People do drugs, at least initially, for the fun of it. You may not have taken illegal drugs, but I would assume you have taken legal ones (alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, pills, etc). Does it matter whether they are legal?
If we want prohibition, we should acknowledge that this is one of the results of it
Big George- if you've never done ANY drugs, and have NO real experience with them, then WHY are you so convinced that they are a threat? You've swallowed one of the most paranoia-inducing drugs out there... US propaganda.
I read posters above stating we should legalize drugs....Problem is it would still be illegal to produce these drugs outside of the USA where all the cartels are located. So where do you think the cartels will set up shop then....Here in the good old USA. Don't even think for a second the pharmaceutical companies here in the states could produce those drugs and sell them as cheap as the cartels can. The cartels would form the largest business conglomerate next to the mafia. And protect it to the death as well.
legalize: really? where is the big organized crime influence in booze?
@rocco It's called United States of America. not just "America" And by all means it is not the "Cleanest" nor the most "Well behaved" country. Did you know that Mexico is actually called United States of Mexico? -Of course you didn't!
Don't know about roadside bombs in "America" but "American" drug cartels and "Americans" running around killing at random? That's a FACT!
Someone else needs to think before saying uneducated things
SORRY PEOPLE FOR FEEDING THE TROLL
(I won't read/reply) don't waste your time
@rocco Random killings happen every day in the U.S. Did you know that over 1000 children die in custody of the CPS (child protective services). What about all the random school shootings?!! I've lived in Mexico for 3 years now and my children go to public school here aswell and since I've been here there has not been ONE school shooting unlike the U.S there is one every month, Is that not random killings?
40 cartel member deaths for 50,000 civilian executions. Result!
The only reason for CNN to have an idiot like Fareed on its payroll would be for him to be Ted's Number One Paramour.
@Booskoo
Really? Ted? What decade are you living in? Say what you want but it's obvious you don't follow "idiot" Mr. Zakaria. He's probably the only one on cable news who actually covers world news and provides perspective on topics that don't end in a left vs. right talking head fight or a -dashian.
@MikeinDallas, three thumbs up for your response to Booskoo.
And now.... introducing... Mexico's next major drug cartel... THE MEXICAN ARMY!!! (and the crowd goes wild!)
Fareed's Article lacks depth. Robert Bonner must either have been payed for the article or gave it as a favor to his aquaintances, former DEA agents who advise President Calderon. Truth is that Calderon's "Battle" is doing everything except what it takes to bring the Mexican State back in control of the situation.
For Americans it would be easier to try depicting what happens in Mexico by figuring out how would you feel if the National Guard went on the main campus of MIT killing students in the "pursue" of bad guys, while bad guys share their profit with those who came after them.
Mexico is just cleaning house by removing lower level drug cartel members who are weak. The strong will survive...always have and always will. What will be left is a super-cartel that has hands in all matters of state and immune from prosecution. Drug cartels are here to stay...no way to defeat them save legalization...contrary to what policy makers (drug war profiteers) might say.
always have????? in Columbia???? The big guy has been very dead for some time now.
Escobar was a figurehead. The real patriarch Fabioa Ochoa Restrepo lived till the ripe old age of 89.
Colombia – NOT Columbia
Columbia has almost rid itself of major drug cartels and smashed the rebellion against them. It can be done, but lives will be lost. You cannot let these people take over a country, particulary if you are the United States and it is one of your biggest trade partners.
Bill, there is no progress to be made when it comes to fighting the war on drugs. When you kill every cartel member in a country, more will replace them. (Either from another country or within their own country.)
Stopping the drug war by choking the supply is the most idiotic thing conceived in the US. Only way to kill drug lords is by legalizing some drugs and working on harm/demand reduction strategy. How's this drug prohibition thing working out for us? Years on, we have militarizes police forces, tons of dead soldiers and citizens, and drug use has gone UP! At a cost of BILLIONS in blood and money. If you run a prison, or the Policemen's Union–you couldn't be happier.
Not another crystal ball historian. Jeez.
I totally disagree. America is without a controlling drug cartel, isn't it? We removed mafia influence in the early 1900's, didn't we? Have a little hope...please.
It sound's like something from my movie – The Dark Knight.
Make sure to catch my new movie, The Dark Knight Rises,
in theaters this summer.
I do hope the trending from Mexico is true. The only way to rid Mexico of the drug trade, short of killing every cartel member is a revival. I'll be reviled for this one, but do your history homework and you'll see that true revivals always resulted in a significant reduction in all areas of crime in the region. So go ahead and blast me. You all have a blessed day.
If by 'revival' you mean the mass concentration on religious fervor – I think that Mexico's vastly Catholic population already manages that. Prayer is clearly not sufficient. What is needed (as with any basic economic equation) is to reduce demand. Religious revival movement is not going to accomplish that. Legalizing natural plant based drugs, which have no worse effects that alcohol and certainly less than straight tobacco, is the simplest way to reduce demand. Not to mention the added bonus of a new source of tax revenue for the US.
Revival? In an area that worships Santa Muerte? Ummm, no.
One of the most uneducated posts who has not been following whats going on. I suspect this poster is a frequent customer of the cartels. The switch to the army was a major shift. Just as was in Columbia. As stated in the article, the cartels had almost taken over Mexico (as in Columbia, to a lesser extent Pnama before). They threaten the ruling elite. Happens all the time when power is concentrated in the hands of a few, and yes that is true in mexico as well, they stamp out the threat.
Because the cartels are more than willing to give up the billions of dollars they make each year from drugs.
Consider:
The last figure released by the Mexican government on the number of dead during its 4 1/2-year, military-led crackdown on organized crime came in January, at just over 34,000. It covered the period from the start of the drug war in December 2006 until the end of 2010.
Source: La Plaza (LA Times)
Check your facts man, many TOP MID and LOW level cartel members have been killed, extradited to the US, or currently in prision. Yes there have been cases of TOP cartel members dissappearing and have not been seen or found since, but it has not always been the case.
Let me add that suggesting Mexico is winning a drug war is like saying Mexico is winning the war in defeating the use of petroleum. There really is no desire to end the use of petroleum just like there is no real desire to end the narcotics trade. There's more money in narcotics than in the end of the narcotics trade. Only the civilians suffer at the hands of cartels...not politicians and corrupt law enforcement. Same as in the USA...civilians are victims to non-civilians...ie, corrupt branches of government and cartels.
What are you talking about? Plenty of politicians have been murdered by the cartels, as well as corrupt/non-corrupt police officers and officials. I could attach links to a number of particular murders to support my point, but for some reason i think you're just talking about of your A$$ anyway. For what purpose, i have no idea.
Take your head out, wake up, and smell the coffee.
Couldn't been explained any better
The United States is not the only country in the world with an insatiable demand for drugs. Get over yourself lol
You people consume 70% of all drugs in the world. ... Go find out.
those are medical drugs prescribed to us by our doctors because of obesity.
The other 30% is Keith Richards.
And now with your people nearing 50% of America, It's your people using the drugs and delivering them.
No. But we do comsume the most in the Western Hemisphere. Europe has a high thirst. The opium from Afghanistan is targeted at Europe.
@MR Man: There are approximately 313 million people living in the U.S. and only 34 million of those are Mexican (including the illegal Mexicans), so Mexicans are no where near comprising half of the population of the U.S. Educate yourself.
nowhere*
70%, eh? Where did you get that stat?
Is "lol" becoming the new "you know?"
The rest of the world can't afford it.
Al Capone is still laughing at us.
Legalize marijuana...end of story
Brownies only; I do not want cancer from the smoke. However, meth labs need to be shut down as they as threats to our environment.
I was a chain smoker for 45 years, stopping in 1992. I guess I was lucky not to have let secondary smoke give me cancer. Yet? Well I am now 81, in perfect health, I guess I will continue to flee when I encounter secondary smoke.
People are also threats to our environment. Guess we need to get rid of those too.
Oh yeah? Well I don't want chocolate in my weed.
For the record, there are many studies done, and 0 evidence of marijuana causing cancer. There is however ample proof that it protects against certain types of neck and head cancers. Look it up, read somethings besides propaganda against it. If there were but a single case in over 5000 years of history where it caused cancer it would be blown up, pointed out, and thousands of people would exposing it. it does not cause cancer, smoked or other wise. I do agree that common sense says smoking it cant be good, but no evidence supports that.
smoking pot does not have the same effect on you lungs that cigs do, there have been recent studies that prove this
u cannot get cancer from cannabis smoke because the THC kills the cancer
Perfect health at 81??? Yeah right, there goes all your credibility.
one word – vaporizor
reading the article must be beyond you. The article talks about cocaine. Keep getting stoned and let the people with braincells run the show.
How naive of you to think that only cocaine gets trafficked across
Yeah Bill. That's dumb.
Actually Bill, the word "cocaine" is not even mentioned once in the article.
I think you have a certain something rolling around in your brain.
Bill: i seem to have missed the part about cocaine as well.
The Article includes a VIDEO that talks about COCAINE.
qq, you are apparently unaware that while cannabis smoke does actually contain chemicals believed to cause lung cancer, every study on the subject has shown that in the context of smoked cannabis, they do not. We don't know why, but there is a proven lack of correlation.
Bill, you apparently can't read either. Or, maybe you're just unaware of the dozens of scientific studies that have shown a rapid return to baseline cognitive functions for anyone that quits for a few weeks, no matter how long or heavy the previous use. Alcohol does kill brain cells, and I feel like I've lost a few just from reading your idiotic post, but cannabis does not.
"rapid return to baseline cognitive functions for anyone that quits for a few weeks" – so you are saying that cannabis does adversely affect cognitive function while consumption continues. Does that not argue against legalization and in support of cannabis being veiwed as harmful?
your a g ay terrorist fa ggot!!!!!!
No, I think people should be allowed to go where they want with their minds, even if other people don't like it. In fact, I see this as the bedrock principle of a free democracy. If I didn't believe that, I'd be just as quick to outlaw religion as drugs. They're essentially the same thing: willingly subjecting yourself to mild delusion for the purposes of inner peace and happiness. The major difference is that people on drugs usually know that they're high.
Short term memory loss.. the article is about cocaine, and hard drugs that are much more difficult to produce in volume in the US, and not marginally legal in 1/3 of the country.
Hmm, the person accusing me of short-term memory loss not only cannot remember the comment right above mine in the comment tree (the one I responded to, which was about cannabis), but also cannot seem to remember my own posts, where I never mentioned smoking myself. Pot, meet kettle.
That is true C.S. but I doubt they cured it by getting rats to smoke joints
jkhur-
To answer your question, "NO." It doesn't mean that it's bad for you, it means that while you're under the influence, you're under the influence. To adopt your logic, we should outlaw everything from turkey (triptophan) to benadryl. Over-simplify much??
Then cocaine? Then heroin? Then crystal meth? Then glue?
Ever even heard of Adderal, Morphine, Oxy-anything?? Go back to your Budlight and pretend you're different.
Scott-glue is already legal
Legalize it and control it like alcohol sales. Prohibition against alcohol failed miserably, and the war on drugs has been failing even more spectacularly. Drugs are already out there and legislation and police state enforcement tactics cannot eliminate the demand.
then how do we get them to pay the taxes and not kill people to not pay the taxes?
By rendering the cartels irrelevent with regard to the trade. You really don't see too many moonshiners anymore (other than on History Channel) simply because there really isn't enough profit in evading the law or taxes. If it exists anymore it would be on a very small scale and not relevent to the overall industry.
Narcotics and alcohol are nowhere near the same. Legalizing it will result in a large population of drugged out zombies in society, and then who's going to be paying for that? You and me.
Why would there be more "drugged out zombies" than there presently are "drunks"? And are you implying that someone who is under the influence of marijuana is more dangerous (behind the wheel of a car, for example) than someone who is under the influence of alcohol? Both drugs and alcohol can be addictive.
Studies have shown that there would actually be only a small initial increase in the number of drug users after legalization with that number eventually falling off to result in a net loss of actual drug users over time.
yeah.... the reason I don't smoke crack is because I don't want to break the law....
the fact that meth is illegal is not what keeps me from using it
II can tell you paid too much attention in school dude. (Psst, by the way, they'll lie straight to your face)
News Flash: Everyone who wants to do drugs already does. Making them legal or illegal does not increase demand. It is a lifestyle choice and should be treated as a health issue with treatment and and education. The same thing they did for smoking cigarettes in this country. Education and Taxation has decreased demand. Portugal case in fact.
muzz: Surely you jest. Every DUI fatality starts with a bub lite. The other night I saw a perfectly coherent, albeit virtually comatose drunk puking on herself right outside my condo. "Drugged out zombies" indeed.
Muzzle, you are ignoring the fact that obtaining drugs in this current society is very easy, therefore most people with an inclination to experiment are doing so now, without much regard for the fact that they are illegal. That means, there is no real benefit to society from the War on Drugs because those who strongly disapprove of drugs are not going to , all of a sudden , decide that they are ok simply because of some new legislation. The only people who benefit are those in the illegal trade who get their 100% profit without facing any consequences. At least , if you legalize them you can tax the heck out of them and use the revenue to fund rehab programs which right now are either privately funded or come out of your taxes and mine. Oh, I forgot, the other interest group that is adamant about preventing legalization are the law enforcement people who make a living out of " protecting" people from themselves. No thanks, as a grown-up I prefect to make those personal decisions on my own !!!
Laurence, unless you think marijuana is not a narcotic then your argument may have some merit, but marijuana has been defined as a narcotic and not much different from cocaine, heroin, and meth. I will dare to state that narcotics have destroyed way more lives than alcohol.
And I will dare to state that the drug war has ruined far more lives than drug and alcohol abuse combined and has cost us far more money than any social costs you fear will result from stopping it. If we are to ever solve this issue sucessfully it will be through thinking differently about the problem, not continuing down the road of overstated hysteria and law enforcement.
Are you really are not that ignorant as to believe that Cannabis is on the same level as coke meth and heroine? how old are 70!!!! 90 maybe that is absolutely the most ignorant comment ive ever seen on a story comment section EVER!!!!! are you knew to the internet? you can become educated by using to enlighten yourself to some facts.....here's one marijuana CAN"T KILL YOU i can't believe am going back to the basics wow and alcohol are you kidding? you need to read and read a lot
Someone's obviously never smoked a joint before... Granted its not good to do all the time or while driving its actually quite safe. I've acted like a idiot far more often when i've been drinking alcohol as opposed to smoking a joint. When you drink your speech gets slurred, you cant walk, some people get violent etc anytime ive smoked a joint it just relaxed me, made me happy, makes me think deeper and REALLY appreciate food more. Its such a shame that there is still a social stigma surrounding it. Its such a farce how our society only embraces and advertises liquor all over the place but god forbid you mention you smoked a joint over the weekend around the watercooler at work and youre fired. Legalize and tax the heck out of it for adults already. People that want to smoke pot ALREADY DO in incredibly large numbers, you can get it in every state and county and all of that money goes to dealers who possibly sell stronger and deadlier substances like cocaine and pills. If you could buy cannabis from a store like alcohol there would be no "gateway" to harder stuff.
Marijuana is not a narcotic. It is pharmacologically different from any opium-based drug or synthetically produced version of same. More importantly it has never been shown to be addictive (like commercially manufactured tobacco products), addiction being a common measure for categorizing a drug as a narcotic.
That THC is still lumped together as an FDA "schedule 1" drug along with heroin says more about state and federal politics than pharmacological realities. Personally, I've never met a pot smoker who couldn't quit whereas it's tough to find a heroin addict who can quit.
The fact you even throw marijuana in a category with Narcotics and Alcohol, and then try to claim that since some hard drugs destroy lives, and that marijuana probably does too, and more so then booze, shows that you are not educated enough to share your opinion on the subject. Now, I have some Bubba K to attend to.
Chris, marijuana is a narcotic. Look it up. Unless the definition of narcotic is changed and somehow marijuana is no longer classified as one, then it is no different then meth, crack, or heroin. This is why it is illegal. Narcotics destroys lives, and legalizing them will lead to unforeseen consequences, but none that will be any good for society as a whole.
Medically, the term narcotic refers to opiates and their synthetic derivatives (opioids). Marijuana is not in this category. In the law enforcement world, the word is more slippery and less precise and is often used to indicate any addictive illegal drug– That does not change the fact that marijuana is no more a narcotic than alcohol.
You sir, are an idiot.
Hahahahaha.....you are way out there on your logic. Marijuana is less of a drug than any of the pain relievers you get from the doctor. To say that because it is a narcotic, it carries the same weight as all other drugs is just plain stupid. Think about aspirin......there are children’s aspirin and adult aspirin. They are both aspirin, but one is stronger than the other and therefore affects the bodies differently. The reason why marijuana is considered a narcotic is because some tight a$$ government official decided he thought it should be. In recent years there has been proven medical research that pot oil helps cure cancer. There are many positive things about marijuana, but fooled people like you will never know because of our government’s passion to indoctrinate it being "bad" so that you'll never open up your mind. Not to mention that all of the money is in synthetic drugs. Expand your ideas instead of pulling the blinders tighter.
"Marijuana is not a narcotic." (Wolstenholme, 1965; Watt, 1965; Garattini, 1965; 1 Crim 5351 Calif. District Court of Appeal, 1st Appel. Dist.). "Marijuana does not tend to release "aggressive behavior." "On the contrary, its use inhibits aggressive behavior; it acts as a "tranquilizer." (Mayor's Committee on Marihuana, New York City, 1944; Fort, 1965a, 1965b; Panama Canal Zone Governor's Committee, 1933; Phalen, 1943; Garattini, 1965). Lying is for losers, you know.
@muzzleblast....go spread your ignorance somewhere else!!!! IDIOT! READ some research and then come back Jackazz!
LMAO! Ok then FINE! Make alcohol illegal! Make it fair across the board for everyone.
Legalization isn't the answer. Legalization requires enforcement, and offers no motivation for people to continue to grow marijuana illegally. Decriminalization, however, removes the need to import illegally the drug from other countries, and also frees up law enforcement dollars (TAX dollars) for use in something else (education or drug treatment programs for addicts) or to be saved for unforseen emergencies (natural disasters for example) or (god forbid) have taxes reduced. Decriminalization is the answer.
er, legalization offers NO motivation to STOP growing illegally.
Why do you care if people grow legally? Do you think states need to go around and shut down home brewers?
We should legalize and tax marijuana sales like the government did with alcohol after the repeal of the Volstead Act. Even marijuana growers in California are in favor of a tax. If you're a student of History you must know that enforcing Volstead cost American taxpayers billions in a mostly futile attempt to enforce the absurd law. The 21st Amendment repealing Volstead not only put an end to the costly folly of Prohibition but also allowed the government to tax alcohol sales and collect critical revenue. In fact, the desperate need for taxes was the driving force behind repeal. The 21st Amendment also put organized crime out of the alcohol business.
legalization would take a large amount of the profit motive out. where are all the moonshiners now? they are still around,but not in the number they used to be
Yes... legalize cocaine now! And meth, LSD, PCP, heroin and....
Or do you just mean cannabis?
How are you going to tax something people can grow in their basement and back porch? you are going to legalize it, but make it illegal to grow it? your almost back to square one then.
Maybe we can kill 50,000 more mexicans.
Why o why o why would anyone ever consider moving to the "new world". Drug wars in central America. Twice as many dead than in Afghanistan. Argentina stealing companies. Rich landowners screwing everyone else for years. 7 times the number of criminals in the USA than Europe per capita. 5 times the rate of gun murders deaths in USA than Europe per capita. Religious medievalism declaring everyone is evil who isn't a christian conservative...communists, socialists, secularists and especially islamists. The main people who will do well in the "new world" are low life criminals, gang members, christian extremists or people from poor paces like India or Bangladesh. What a basket case those 'new world' people have created for themselves. Except Canada. Canada is OK.
Sounds like this is coming from someone who has never lived here or traveled around our country.
Canada is cold, my bones cannot take it.....why can't Mexico just legalize it.....or the US....
Most law abiding citizens do well here in the "New World." You are so high on Europe, which I have visited many times and have thoroughly enjoyed, but why do you think Europe is immune to the problems of the world? How many genocides have there been in the New World compared to Europe? You've had several major wars that soldiers from the New World helped to fight. You have crazies killing 77 people in Finland, terrorists living among your borders, entire populations rioting against their own government due to austerity measures. Please, give me a break thinking Europe is so high and mighty compared to us over here in the New World.
Ironically our "War on Terror" has set us back in the "War on Drugs."
Afghanistan currently produces something like 75 percent or more of all the poppy grown worldwide. Poppy fields all but disappeared under Taliban control. Now, under the control of Karzai and warlords, the poppy business is again thriving – and apparently more than ever before. And the United States is far from the only customer. As a direct result of the resurgence in the Afghan poppy business neighboring countries like Pakistan, India and Iran (and others) are all experiencing a frightening rise in opium addictions.
It seems we're waging a few too many wars, and too often, accidentally fighting ourselves.
Oh, I could blindly, and with the requisite indignation, deny everything you've said. I prefer to be realistic and accept the truth. There are no end to the historical parallels – but we'll default to the 'this is different' defense.
yet, we have to put up walls to keep the rest of the world, including much of Europe. go figure.
Coffee houses play a HUGE role in battling drug addiction from both sides. On one hand, people are weaning off drugs with a caffeine regimen, while the farmers, in central America, Columbia, ect., still have a crop to sell.
Hmmm.
What's cheaper, a gram of heroin or a Starbucks Caramel Macchiato Grande?
50,000 Mexicans died so that Americans do fewer illegal drugs. That's a horrific cost for a goal that, even if it could work, the Mexican government should not be concerned over. Saying that losing 50,000 lives to maintain American prohibition can possibly be a "win" is ridiculous. If the Mexican government was willing to sacrifice that many of their own citizens' lives to "win" maybe they didn't deserve to.
This drug war is not to defend the Mexican people from the cartels. If the Mexican government wanted to do that they could legalize the drugs meaning legitimate companies would undercut cartel prices and drive them out of business. Mexico is saved from violent cartels ruling, makes quite a bit of money, and 50,000 people wouldn't have died.
I think u missed the cartels were trying to turn Mexico into a narco stae. The establishment is fighting back not to save American potheads. They are fighting to save their power.
I did not miss that point. The point I made is that if that was the only concern of the Mexican government, or even the primary concern, legalization solves that issue handily. My point is that this is not an efficient way to hold onto power and the potential for internal dissent against these policies actually makes it an actively dangerous one. But it is an effective way to maintain the edifice of American prohibition. What this shows is that pressure from the American government is a bigger concern to Mexican political elites than the lives of their own citizens.
Undermining the cartels would be simple otherwise.
Mexico couldn't win a p is si ng contest and Zakaria is nthing but a re tard...
When you have to code half of the words in your comment to get past the censors, you may want to reevaluate your life.
I lived in Mexico for 2-1/2 years, and can declare, with first hand authority, that you are full of caca de toro.
This optimistic outlook seems to presume that the military is immune from bribes. Look at the Juarez Valley and you will see this is not the case.
At least, the Calderon government is not making it any easier for the narcs, while over on this side of the border we are talking possible legalization already. Talk about inconsistencies...
Perhaps the biggest inconsistency is the fact that we haven't employed our own army to stop the obscene flow of illegal weapons into Mexico.
You sir are an idiot, We supply mexican cartels with Guns. Mexicans arnt allowed to OWN guns. Look Up Project GUN RUNNER, Yea that would be an AMERICAN botched operation.
Wrong again, Big A. Gun ownership is not illegal in Mexico. Handguns are restricted (not illegal), but a hunting rifle or shotgun is not.
Being a Canadian, one thing amazes me when they talk in the US about the drugs coming from other countries,Mexico,Columbia etc.
Who are these people selling the drugs to?? Americans!!
Clean up the people and there wouldn't be a market for the other countries to sell to.
I agree that we yanks have too many fellow citizens who abuse too many illegal drugs such as meth and other bad substances. I think legalizing marijuana brownies for those 21 and over makes sense. I also think that using a meth lab should have huge criminal and civil punitive penalties.
Instead of brownies, how about we try a little powdered THC in our yogurt?
I'm trying to lose weight.
qq: why just brownies? why not the substance itself?
Hey Jimbo......looks who’s talking!!! Pot is legal in many parts of your country!! So your solution to "clean up the people" is to legalize it??? Pot calling the kettle black?????? LMAO
Freedom. Freedom to Choose. Freedom to live life as you wish as long as it doesn't threaten the freedom and life of others. Should drugs be behind the wheel or on the job? Probably not. Does it matter if Jesus smokes a doobie in his abode? No, no it doesn't. So why don't we label this war what it is: the war against personal freedoms. The war on drugs is just propaganda.
"...Freedom to live life as you wish as long as it doesn't threaten the freedom and life of others..."
Hey, i would agree with you if that would actually remain the case. But what are the odds???
When folks on these drugs spill into society with crime(to support their habit), or with their burden on the healthcare system when the get sick or overdose(I happen to be Canadian), then they're infringing on my rights to not being robbed or killed, or support them.
Like i said, what are the odds of these druggies staying penned up at home and not bothering a soul?
About the same as the chances of you keeping you, and your dumb opinions, IN CANADA.
Spoken like a true Bill Hicks fan
>> as the cartel leaders were lead away
You mean as they were LED away,
Legalize drugs sounds so simple and it is.........less deaths, more control over the cartels, as pointed out, the drugs are wanted, that will not stop......see the laws we have now for alcohol? We can do so much more than waste lives in a lost drug war....
Zakaria and anyone who believes the line of thought of this story, is clueless. Ending prohibition in the u s would have dried up the huge profits and money available for bribes, and saved most of the deaths that occurred during that period. The war might move south, but it might move north, as well. If so, we'll see the special interests do battle with each other. It'll be fun!
The drug war can't be won. It isn't meant to be won. It is meant to go forever, generating continuous profits for banks and the military industrial complex.
Careful, Sharky. That sounds a little bit too close to the TRUTH
We spend 50 billion a year on the War on Drugs, which has only decreased our freedom and let the government into our cars and homes. Nice return on investment, at least for the prison industry.
Is Mexico winning it's war on drugs? One would definately hope so, but on the other hand one must be realistic here. Drugs are not only a scourge to this country, but is now affecting vitually every country in Latin America these days. I only wish that the idiots here would stop showing their ignorance by blogging in favor of drug legalization!!
I know you feel it is much better to just shoot the poeple that are "harming" themselve with drug use.
Talk about irony.
Newsflash:
If we legalize cannabis, I'll grow my own. End of discussion.
I'm not trying to argue about "drugs" – I only want to legalize cannabis.
So please tell me how wanting to grow my own weed will have anything but a positive effect on society.
Haven't you seen "Reefer Madness?"
what a joke! The mexican people don't want this American war on drugs any more than the American citizen wants the war on drugs. ALL of the western hemisphere is looking for a way out of the war on drugs... except the Obama administration.
Im sure if we just kick down a few more doors the war will be won. Just a few more doors!
LOL winning the drug war? Yeah right. Zakaria doesn't seem very smart.
Who cares about the drug war??
Israel is in DANGER!!
WE NEED MONEY, WEAPONS, BOOTS IN IRAN!!
if America does not aid Israel, mossad will see that America is destroyed.
Rabbi, you need a good water pipe.
Help us or we'll destroy you? If you're a Rabbi then I'm Peter Pan. And I ain't.
Zakaria: Is Mexico winning the drug war? What ? did americans quit dope ?
yes we are losing the drug war . we let to many people in this country now its out of hand. thats why there is no jobs here other countrys come here walk over us taking the jobs.sad
We're loosing this war? These drug wars are being fought in other countries. We only continue to suffer the dependency – if you want to call it suffer. From Colombia to Mexico then to another country whose people will suffer the violence that is brought upon them when these cartels just move on to another country to continue filling the need for America’s crave for illegal drugs.
They are taking our jobs? Those dirty Mexicans who can’t even speak English are taking your job? Give me a break, stop being a cry baby. Let’s stop blaming other people for problems that we really refuse to fix in our country. Get up off your rear end and compete for that job that “they” took away.
The main objective of the 'war on drugs' is to reduce (if possible to zero) the availability of illegal drugs. It's absurd to assert that progress is being made if the reduction of availability is NONE AT ALL. The only result of the 'war on drugs' has been a huge cost in lives and money, with the cartels continuing to enrich themselves and use that money to diversify into other criminal activities (kidnapping, extortion, etc.) that hurt society much more than drugs do.
To all the potheads saying "We should just legalize it" GET A LIFE LOSERS!! Keep killing those few braincells you have left, you're almost there!
This is why the prohbitiionists are losing this argument. The statement above is about as intelligent as they ever get.
You're so very right, ces805. I mean, Steve Jobs, Carl Sagan, these men were mental midgets compared to YOU! When are they gonna put your mug on Mt Rushmore, forever enshrining your glorious mental prowess???
Perhaps if "Donny" could spell, he'd have a job! Besides it's not like your going to pick vegetables.
You mean YOU'RE going to pick vegetables.
Grammatically speaking, there should also be a comma after "besides." Good thing you don't smoke, you'd be giving us all a bad name.
@ces805....Your (notice how I used that word???) two comments show just how ignorant and stupid you really are!!!!! I think YOU need to stop killing YOUR brain cells!!! LMAO
I don't know whether Mexico is winning the drug war, but may God bless the good people of Mexico, who are suffering in the midst of such a horrible ordeal.
First of all, NO, they are not winning the war on drugs. An 8% increase in deaths is NOT winning – it's losing, albeit by a lesser degree than before. This is not a war of attrition whereby the Mexican government simply thinks it can kill more people than the cartels... an if it is, then don't expect it to end anytime soon and that 50,000 number (in the last 6 years alone) will not be ZERO – it might be 30,000 during the next presidential term, but that my friend is NOT winning... it is losing by a smaller margin (if you consider thosands of deaths as a "margin")
Second of all, give some credit to the US. California has virtually legalized marijuana and has set up a distribution system that is running the cartels out of the cannabis trade. I don't know how they are going to combat the harder drugs, but I do know it will be exponentially easier to stop cocaine (which only comes from one region on the planet) and meth labs when they don't have to worry about pot.
The only way that Mexico EVER wins the drug war, is for the U.S. to finally realize that prohibition only breeds Black Markets.
The only thing that can stop the seemingly unending cycle of arrests, violence, arrests, violence is legalizing and regulating the drug trade. More cops are saying that's what we need to do: http://www.CopsSayLegalizeDrugs.com
Well written Zakaria. It is so easy to ridicule, and harder to see that things take time. Not too long ago, between the 1980's and early 1990's, the most powerful country in the World, the United States took close to 10 years to clean up crime and homicide issues in areas of New York. In 1992 alone, there were 2,154 murders and 626,182 serious crimes (yes that is whole numbers and no decimals needed). This is one city, and almost 10 years to clean up!. Imagine the effort that is required to clean up a country! I applaud Mexico for taking on a challenge that has been ignored for way too long. Mexico's president Calderon has had less than 6 years, and although the price has been high politically, including lives, it is no doubt the right strategy. The challenge is that most people associate the murders to ordinary civilians but in reality it is drug cartels fighting and killing each other. Not that makes it better to have them murdered, but the point is simple, they are being squeezed for their territory as the government takes back the power.
People will say what they want, and I appreciate that. But history has proven time and time again, that this is the right strategy. It will take time, but the rewards to the future generations including us up here in North, will benefit by having a more peaceful hemisphere.
"History has proven time and again this is the right strategy"??? Boy are you ever full of crap! Please provide any evidence whatsoever that prohibition is the most effective way to reduce or eliminate anything. The "War of Drugs" has been the single most man made disaster ever perpetrated against society and you argue for the continuation of the disaster. Get a mind!
Blue skies is it? If Zakaria knew anything he would choke on it. I've been around a long time and all of it is still here. Dream on, dream on....
the drug wars already lost
"Is Mexico winning the drug war?" Depends on which Mexico you mean...
The people of Mexico are tired of the drug war. While they may agree that something needs to be done, they blame the party in power for the current situation. In the upcoming election they will toss out the PAN (party currently in power) and will reinstate the former ruling party, the PRI. You will see things calm down a lot, not because the "war" is being won, but because the PRI will play ball with the cartels. Corruption will return in full force to all levels of the Mexican government, cartel supply routes will be safeguarded by the party in power and the killing will slow to a trickle.
YES, Mexico is winning the drug war – by selling our kids more drugs than ever before.
You don't really believe they want to REDUCE their #1 export, do you? I mean, really?
Yes, they would be in a great position if they would legalize, right? Lets educate ourselves to make better choices and stop blaming other people for our for our problems.
The drug war will only be won with the help of the United States military. We have many unemployed veterans right now and I can think of no better way to employ them by stationing large numbers of them all along our border line with Mexico. I mean thousands of them. They have the infantry skills which makes them the perfect choice. We obviously need to help the unemployed. What a great way to help an unemployed soldier. We also need to bring our soldiers home from those god forsaken wars of liberation in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not in 2014. Now in 2012! Our soldiers should be defending our borders now not places where the inhabitants really don't want our presence any longer. The problem is Congress must be convinced of the importance of this change and moving Congress on any issue of importance is like trying to lift an elephant! Nearly impossible, and so I will go over their heads and pray to the almighty for his help in the matter. He always listens even though Congress rarely does. They love to admire themselves in the mirror and will until November. Then all those thousands of unemployed veterans are going to vote to remove them all from office which is certainly justified given their lackluster performance in the last decade.
"When a government forcefully commits to take on an internal terrorist or drug group, it usually wins."
With the notable exception of the US – where the "war on drugs" has been a resounding failure...
Yes Mexico is winning the drug war, that is if you mean by that trafficking drugs, yes.
we will never win over drugs . its got out of hand . they dont get enuff time in jail. they go to jail 30 mins they back out doing it again . they just pay the fine with drug money and back doing it again. so no we not going to win over drugs. put there butts behind bars bout 10 years then it would stop alot. money we waste in other countrys use it to bild prisons here for the druggies
You are a complete ignorant jackazz!!! I think many on this board have already proven how stupid you are so move on!!!
The only ones winning the war on drugs are the big petro chemical companies and the prescription drug makers.
you could include the prison industry as winners and the police militarization and growth is winning.,
The drug testing companies still cannot make a pee test for hard drugs after ten days past last use.
why bother when only 2% of all drug use is those hard to test for hard drugs and those who abuse prescription drugs that causes thousands of deaths each year??
they can make more money and imprison more people who use marijuana because millions of people use marijuana.
90% of all drug use is marijuana use.
People who use marijuana are the threat to the government because they can think outside of the governments tightly controlled box of ideas.
Winning the drug war???
The government and its pet corporations sure have won the war on drugs because they took the lives lost and the safety of communities damn near all the money,freedom and liberty and power from the people when they made drugs and drug use illegal!!!!!!!!!!!
nope., but they sure can make one that tests you for marijuana after four weeks and more sometimes!!!
There was only an 8% RISE in drug related killings. Not a decrease. There were still more killings last year than in the prior "bad" year, only the rate of increase is slowing. Sound more like there are only so many people that can be killed in a single year, rather than an effective strategy.
Well, 1st of all to everybody hating on the process that IS being made in Mexico, just kill yourself now or quit complaining about the Americas drug and immigration problems because you are the problem. Yes not all drugs are solely consumed by Americans, but a great Majority (70%) is. I agree that drugs are also consumed in Mexico but really it all comes down to economy 101 people, Cartels make Billions of dollars from the US market compared to a couple of hundreds of thousands of dollars American from Mexico and Latin America, pesos vs. dollars do the math! It is correct that even if there was no drug problems Mexico would more than likely still suffer from a high extortion and kidnapping rate, but again those crimes are committed w/ the help of weapons obtained from the USA purchased via cash flow that comes from Drug sales. Bottom line is that revenues from drugs sales buys police and politicians, take away that revenue and you just have low level poorly armed criminals w/o enough $ sufficently bribe cops and politicians, making it easier to combat extortion and kidnapping.
Secondly, yes, the Drug war is working! The Zetas have resulted in having to headquarter their operations from Mexico to Guatemala because they know that is is more difficult to operate in Mexico now. Out of the half-dozen cartels, only 3 major cartels still remain active and they are so desperate that they have to move into other territory in order to survive vs. pre 2006 when all major cartels had, I guess you would say a treaty, to stay away from certain territories. Now all almost all the mero-meros are dead, what did survive of their cartels had to split up into separate factions due to differences in leadership, remember divide and conquer.
And last but not least, the Death toll! Not all 50000+/- dead are civilians. Most of the dead had connection to the cartels in some way, shape or form, they were killed either by the Military or rival cartels desperate for new territory because gov't crackdowns has effectively eliminated drug routes and profits. It’s obvious in the Cartels desperation for new territories that Calderon’s war is succeeding. It is a shame that innocent civilians get caught up in the crossfire or used as human shields but to assume that the great majority of dead are the civilians is absurd.
I happen to think that one reason the drug cartels are fighting each other is because of declining sales of their #1 export cannabis. Nobody in the US buys the Mexican crap anymore and the US produces some of the best quality pot in the world. I have no idea what you're talking about Cesar, I haven't purchased a damn thing cannabis wise from Mexico in probably thirty years thanks to our high quality domestic production. Still have no idea who actually buys Mexican weed!
Don't play dumb. You damn well know that the drug trade is primarily focused on Cocaine, Meth, and Heroin. In Mexico they call Pot "curriente" slang term for "cheap". Even Cartels know that there is no $ in dirt weed. Seriously dude are you so naive as to think that all Americans do is smoke bud lol, be real, 1 Kilo of cocaine is approx $20-25g. It seems to me that you don't know what you’re talking about; then again you’re probably just some young sheltered white kid that has no clue about what goes on outside of playing X-Box 360, reading Hightimes, and Facebook.
Cesar, sorry to disappoint you foolish one but you're not even close on your assessment. I'm a 56 year old war time vet who owns several businesses(all profitable), employ people and I have a considerable amount of experience in the real world having left home at age 16. As to "hard drugs" the fact remains that the vast majority of drug convictions in the US are for simple marijuana possesion and the abuse of these drug laws, not the drugs themselves, have caused far more harm to our society than any of the drugs you named. If you truly wish to reduce usage of the "hard" drugs you would realize the most effective way is in fact legalize them! I realize this is a tough concept for you to wrap your brain around but it is in fact true. Don't play stupid Cesar, you know damn well the purpose behind the drug war is profits and power not what is best for society! Or maybe you don't know you've been lied to in a very terrible way all of your moronic life!
@cesar...YOU are the ignorant and stupid one!!! Do you have ANY sources to back up your claims?? Didn't think so!!! Go do some real research and then come back and talk!!! I love how you and everyone one else outside the US blames the US for their problems!!! GET a clue and look in a mirror...there is your problem!!!
Corrupt politicians managed to add marijuana to the list of banned drugs in the 1930s and they have managed to keep them there despite the majority of Americans wanting them off the list. On top of that, wondering how they ever managed to make the list. Listen to the rest of the world telling us we consume more drugs, that is why, we have so called "drugs" on the list that never should have been on the list. And then Obama gets up and calls marijuana a narcotic meanwhile half the dummies in America (and Europe it appears) don't seem to know what a big scam this whole thing is and makes a LOT of money for corrupt govenment and keeps you UNDER their thumb.
If Mexico legalized all drugs , they would have a problem trying to keep tabs on all the Drugies in America invading them. They might even have to put a fence up to curtail it , just in case they ran low on Crack or Coke so them yankee's won't do any damage to the country or image . They could make 20 times the money that the U S A is giving them a year , I believe is $ 2 Billion to stop the drug cartels.
No, they are not
Cesar, You can BABBLE on all you want and tell Americans how BAD they are but truth is if Americans could simply grow the weed in their back yard your whole issue would be a mute point. The drug war is NOT working but apparently corrupt government is working fine.
Mick, you are so uniformed. Check the stats year after year, 1.5% of Americans are addicted to drugs (heroin and the like). This is the same percentage as 42 years ago BEFORE the failed war on drugs. Marijuana is not addictive and should NOT even be included in the list of dangerous drugs. Too bad you are not bright enough to figure that out.
I look at this issue from a different point of view. In my opinion the government has no business telling me what I can and cannot place into my own body. That is the basic premise of freedom. If you have no control over your own body then are you truly free?
"it usually wins"?
Is this writer HIGH? (pun intended). Drugs are a product, people want a product... as long as there is someone who wants it there WILL be someone to supply it. DON'T fool yourself. I can walk to any street in the city be it upper class or lower class and find the drug I want within 30 minutes or less.
NO
Is Mexico winning the drug war? It sure would be nice if this is true. We are not even close to winning this drug war. Not surprisingly, we have been fighting the war on poverty for a good many years and we are not only not winning, we are losing this war. It would be nice if we were to choose a war we can win. We can forget the drug war as well as the poverty war, we don't have a clue how to win these.
Statistics show your are wrong on both counts. Mexican standard of living has been on the rise for years, and the rate of violence has significantly slowed. In a year, you will probably see a drop.
Did I say the Mexican standard of living was not on the rise? Did I say the rate of violence has not significantly slowed? Although I did not say so, I would agree that both of these mentioned show progress by the Mexicans. I was ssimply responding to that mentioned, that the Mexicans were showing progress in the war on drugs. We are most certainly not.
They would have a chance if the USA ATF would stop giving the cartels guns. But the US gov loves to arm it's enemies (Bin Laden, Noriega, Saddam, Hitler, Columbian rebels, ect)
They kill 'em, we jail 'em. The rest........must get stoned...;)
"You see, then the richest country in the world has an insatiable demand for drugs. Someone is going to produce them and meet that demand...but that's for another post."
you dialed it right there.. until we do something about the demand all we ll be able to do is make these guys bounce from country to country.
do i have an anwser? no ...i suspect we d have to become quite draconian in how we deal with pushers and users- which would spark outrage amonst civilized folk....
...and would probably drive them to drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes. Hmmm... How does this work?
Most people do not know that Mexico is the 13th largest economy in the world, just under the size of Spains. They have abundant natural resources and a huge amount of potential. One cannot let druglords take that nation over for a variety of reasons. Calderon had a rough ride, but history will dictate his legacy and show his success. It is in the best interests of both the Mexicans as well as Americans for Mexico to be a successful nation.
Wishful thinking unless the U.S. changes it's drug laws.
Intelligent people have abandoned the idea that The War on Some Drugs can be won. Not Zakaria.
Zakaria just looks foolish. Required reading for Zakaria. Google the following:
Licit and Illicit Drugs
The non-medical use of drugs in the United States
The Drug Hang-Up
Major Studies of Drugs and Drug Policy.
Well said, Fahreed. However, I missed the correlation between Mexico and Afghanistan. Mexico's territory is over three times that of Afghanistan, and its population roughly four times the size. Assuming the 50,000 deaths in Mexico are correct, that's proportionatelly a much smaller number than in Afghanistan. Good job, Mexico, I would say.
Why was this called a war? A war should be something that has a reasonable expectation of being won, or at least have an end. There will always be drugs, always a demand and if there is a demand there will be a supply. If you try to cut off the supply, then it becomes more expensive, the higher value makes increase the benefits of the risks and therefore makes it more violent. The war on drugs are driving up the violence associated with drugs. My solution would be to decriminalize it, regulate it, levy a heavy tax on consumption and use the proceeds to use in treatment. That will drive down demand remove the profits from production and trafficking.
I did not make this statement.
Some little girl is playing games.
Somehow 50,000 people dying so the Government can brag about killing 40 cartel members doesn't sound like winning to me. Calderon is a puppet of the U.S. and the Mexican people are paying the price.
If they are I sure as hell wonder what a loss would look like. No one or any country is winning a drug war anywhere in the world. It is a futile and useless effort that everyone know's is nothing but a waste of time and money. The entire drug war system is so corrupted it is a joke, people trying to justify thier paycheck by busing some people for smoking pot while use increase ten fold each year. How corrupt can it get, drug kingpins support governments and poli-tickers while there is a supposed war going on. What a sad joke the words "drug war" are. Legalize, tax it and regulate it and tell the DEA agents and local cops etc to go and find a legitamite employment. As the song goes, "So I quit the police department and got myself a steady job".
There's no real strategy in the war on drugs, when the cartels go on a killing spree in some city the army arrives, how ever for the time they arrive the cartels have already move to other place and the useless Intelligence agencies of mexico can't keep up, safely the cartels can move their personnel through highways on plain sight and without any problem. That can`t be a real strategy for defeating cartes that are well equipped, well organized and well informed.
Make it legalized!!!!Tax it and stop locking people up for a natural herb!!!!!!Nobody dies smoking weed!!!!
Fareed, look at the situation from a global perspective.
If every drug cartel member in a country was killed simultaneously, would-be cartels in the same country or other countries would spring up to take their place. This is already evident because even though two countries south of our border have cracked down on drug cartels, their neighboring countries have seen an increase in drug cartels that matches the decrease found in the two countries. Politicians like to cite the two countries as evidence for the 'war on drugs' being a success but they never mention how the cartels just moved to the next country (or were replaced by a new cartel.)
Even if every single country simultaneously killed every single drug cartel member, the drug trade would be booming again in no time because ultimately, the demand for drugs is still there. Sentencing drug traffickers to death wouldn't matter because the monetary incentive to provide drugs is worth the risk for many, many people.
technical question: WHAT is the WAIT TIME on posts to actually post?
Okay, there isn't one, so I'll try again on the post I posted forty-five minutes ago...
Well, if anybody ever sees it, tell it I said 'hi!'
I keep trying to post too but I think the system thinks my original post is spam due to the fact I posted the same mesage two times when it didn't appear in the forum
It all depends on whether the nazis agree with your post.
I don't know why it's even called a war. Mexico is neither winning or losing "the drug war" because it's really leading no where.
The US War on Drugs is the biggest war on humanity in history. The US War on Drugs and the politicians that support and perpetuate it continue to kill and imprison hundreds of thousands of people every year. Over what? A flower like marijuana. End the war on drugs, end the suffering created by an outdated policy and callous politicans. Let the will of the people come through and let people decided for themselves. The war on drugs is driven by entrenched special interests and kills and incarcerates hundreds of thousands of people. Stop the insanity, vote out any politician that supports the war on drugs, particularly marijuana which over 59% of Americans believe should be legal.
Stop these war crimes in the name of controlling a simple plant like marijuana.
Furthermore, the politicians who support and perpetuate the US War on Drugs should be tried on the World Court for crimes against humanity. The US Drug laws create more human suffering in the world than any policy in history.
how long does it take for a post to get through?
There is so much going on that no one knows about, my family lives there still...my dad, (yes is a US citizen) vacations in Mexico to spend time with the family. He went to 12 funerals in 3 months...for family friends. most of the time, there was no body to be buried. Additionally the Cartels know the cops...they threaten their family.
So here is how it works, When the soldiers patrol through the towns, they call the cops ahead of time and let them know they are going to be there and when. The Cops then have to call the Cartels, who then go into hiding while the soldiers are there...it's an endless cycle. They are aren't winning, the cartels are still violent and it's getting worse. The cartels run the town's and the town obeys. failure to do so...means death to your families. If the cops ever fail to warn the cartels, then you can imagine what will happen to their families...to their daughters or wives, or sons.
This was going on in March of 2012.
Well I must say that I live in México, In Tijuana just for being specific, it has been one of the hot spots durng this war and I must say that if this war continues in this way, with this strategy we are not going anywhere, it is necessary to us to make an educational and effective campaing to let the people know which are the risks of consuming drugs, I mean this must happen in México as in United States, we can´t win this war if the people in the US don´t stop consuming drugs, because it is normaly produced in central America as in México but by matters of geography it must pass trough México to arrive the US, which generates the interest of the criminals of having, transporting or producing drugs in México, generating the drug cartels. So if there is going to be a battle against the drug cartels with a chance to be won by the state we must work together like two nations educating our people and stop selling guns to our killers, and obviously fighting them as it has been doing for the lately years.
my questions about posting are up by my original post isn't being uploaded any suggestions?
So the rate of civilian deaths is only 2.6 times higher than it was before the policy began and its rate of increase has slowed and this is success?
The author is not being honest by presenting this complete failure as a success.
To all my mexican relaties: hoping for THE best! Starts to look encouraging.....
Legalize all drugs, treat the addicts with compassion to help them. Tobacco kills more people than ALL of the other
drugs combined, and it is legal. This proves that this "war on drugs" is just a money maker for the oligarchs that make
laws to fleece and suppress the masses. Freedom is nothing without liberty! It's too bad that the American people are
a bunch of scared little sheep, afraid of the big bad wolf(terrorists, drugs) and that only these oligarchs(the shepherd) can protect them. We have given up our democracy and freedom by giving into the fear mongering propaganda of the
wealthy! Wake up America! Look at the Arab Spring. You can't deny reality. Nothing changes except through protest,
backed by the threat of violent revolution! You can't tell me that this a "free" country when a bunch of powerful sleazebags, are telling me that I can't put what I want to in my body! The biggest scam of all is the DUI laws. A lot of
people in this country are aggressive, inconsiderate, speeding, reckless, horrible drivers. If you combine alcohol, with
this kind of behavior, then you have a problem. The law should be "reckless driving with alcohol as a aggravating factor".
Stop blaming drugs for the way people act! That person chose to drink that alcohol and get in a car and drive recklessly.
Zakaria seems to be writing from an "Ivory Tower" somewhere, oblivious to reality.
Forgive me I misspoke out of passion! I should have said "Legalize most drugs". I do admit that there are some drugs
that should be illegal.
The drug war is a sham to increase police and government powers.
The drug war is being used to destroy freedoms and ideas and natural medicines you can grow virtually for free.
What if nature gave us all the health foods and drugs we ever would need???
how about a strong narcotic pain reliever that would knock you out before you overdosed???
poppy pod tea will do just that.
need a non narcotic pain reliever and anti spasmatic???
Grow some fast growing marijuana and extract the oils from those female flowers and make some hash or just put it into a vaporize and right there you have a clean smokeless and effective natural drug for nausia and muscle spasms
wow all the all most for free old fassioned good effective drugs are all being kept illegal because the government cannot patent it or control it to make money and control the people and what they think.,
sounds brilliant to me.
Dood there is a conspiracy to keep cannabis illegal (Prison Industrial Complex)... but you should do more reading while stoned.
The US Government DOES own the patent on Cannabinoids already:
http://goo.gl/GqpZU
40 years in and we need just a little more time. BS In the last 20 years, our prison population has risen over 125% while crime has actually gone down by over 40%. With 2.4M prisoners and the average cost being $31.3K per year to house, you do the math. Cannaphobia Kills. Cannaphobia=The irrational fear of a non-toxic plant that can be made into food, fuel, fibre and medicine.
Right on. $30k+ to house a felon. Relax some of the dumb drug laws, and spend that $30k on a college grant for someone else.
Probably the most ridiculous headline yet.
For anyone to say the war on drugs has not been a horrible failure, there are two options 1. The person making such a statement has some interest in keeping drugs illegal such as their job as a judge, dea agent, etc or 2. They have the iq of a god damn tree.
That is an insult to trees everywhere!
option "b)" is an insult to trees everywhere.
Interesting article Fareed. Thought provoking and somewhat naively optmisitic.
"There have been nearly 50,000 drug-related killings in Mexico since President Felipe Calderón began his six-year term"
"Using Calderón's strategy, the Mexican government has killed more than 40 major cartel members."
Bad guys killed 50k. Good guys killed a little over 40. Is Mexico winning the drug war?
No good duys left to kill, so violence looks to be down.
50,000 people killed by cartel violence, and Fareed Zakaria wants to claim Mexico is winning because they have killed 40 cartel members. Legalizing marijuana will make much more ground in this stupid drug war.
If you're stupid enough to ask that question, you won't understand the answer.
Except the government and military hasn't been cracking down on the sinaloa cartel. Wonder why that is.
can't believe the folks above were saying colombia fixed its cartel problem with escobar. Fareed really did no research at all before righting this.
Fareed, I normally respect your opinion and you have had some excellent posts on the drug war in the past but I must respectfully disagree. The figures you cite are not proof of turning the tide. You cite INCREASING homicides as a success. Also the figures from the last 3 months of 2011 were not reported by the Mexican government and if the rate from 2011 remained the same, the number would likely have shown a higher increase. Mexico has still been losing on average 10,000 of its citizens annually to the drug war escalation with no sign of the violence abating. You fail to cite any reduction in the total aggregate funds the cartels are receiving, only arrest totals over a now 5 year period. Also many of the "high level" arrests came from the La Familia cartel which was one of the smaller players. El Chapo Guzman, head of the Sinaloa cartel, is still free as are the leaders from Los Zetas. While your point about Colombia having less violence is correct, the country still produces more cocaine than before Plan Colombia went into effect. They just outsourced the logistic end to the Mexican cartels. Please do some more research before you accept talking points from a former front line solider in the War on Drugs.
I saw a movie on one of the cable channels where an organization similar to the CIA put cyanide in the cocaine that was stored in the evidence room of the police department and then let the main drug dealer in the country steal it and distribute it out. The results were as expected and thousands of users died. It sounds terrible, but was very effective. Without users, there would be no drug trafficking, that's for sure.
But without users there would be no money and without money, you couldn't buy judges, police, and the plethora of graft that drug money buys.
How can anyone believe that Prohibition works??
Might be winning the drug war, but they certainly are losing the gun and killing war.
j
The mexicnan government is backing the sinoloan cartel
The sinoloan stand the best chances of winning in this drug civili war. If they do one super drug organization means no fighting between large groups for profits and less violence.
Right now the fight is between two coalitions of drug suppliers like the axis and allies of wwii. The Sinoloan Cartel Faction, which consists of the sinoloan cartel, gulf cartel, and knights templar cartel is fighting the Zetas Cartel Faction, which consists of the tijuana cartel, the zetas cartel, and the juarez cartel.
The mexican mafia, which controls all mexican american street gangs in the southern united states, answers to the Sinoloan cartel faction. the group has a pact with white supremacist gangs in prison also, due to racial prison politics.
Nuestra Familia which controls all latino street gangs in the northern u.s., answer to the zetas faction. Nuestra familia also has connections to black street gangs because of racially divided rivalries that exist in prison.
These groups have already brought violence and destruction to our country. They need to be stopped and ending the drug war will do it.
The mexican government want stability. That is why it is supporting the sinoloan cartel. They want a monopoly to exist in the drug trade in Mexico. A monopoly means no fights for drug turf. A monopoly existed unbder the guadaljara cartel.
however this cartel was split three ways by its aging patriach. The succesors fought amongst each other like alexander the greats generlas which led to the present situation in Mexico.
the mexican government wants a stable environment. a monoply creates that. Which is why it is supporting the sinaloan cartel. A monoply means no wars for turf and lesser violence. It had this under the guadlahara cartel. The aging patriarch split his organization to his colleagues. These coleagues fought amongst each other like alexander the great's generals leading to todays violence
Agreed. Any increased stability is due to government collusion, negotiation or agreement.
"Robert Bonner is a former U.S. drug enforcement official and he's also served as a commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection."
im pretty sure that was all the info i needed to know what his opinion was going to be. of course the same thing we've been doing for the last 4 decades is working... /facepalm
The last figure released by the Mexican government on the number of dead during its 4 1/2-year, military-led crackdown on organized crime came in January, at just over 34,000. It covered the period from the start of the drug war in December 2006 until the end of 2010.
See: La Plaza
America has the largest market for illegal drugs. americans love thier drugs. If Mexican cartels can't provide them another cartel will in Asia, Eroupe. South America...not a problem. We gotta have our drugs.
Sounds like a decent arguement for tightly controlled legalization so some substances...but it won't happen any time soon.
I normally agree with Fareed on many of his points, but I think the only part of this article I agree with is the last two paragraphs.
"Of course, success in Mexico probably means the cartels will move to Central America. Guatemala is already becoming the next frontier.
You see, then the richest country in the world has an insatiable demand for drugs. Someone is going to produce them and meet that demand...but that's for another post."
Americans have more junkies than anyone in the world. Mexico Stopping the cartels will not have much of an impact.
There's always other cartels in other countries.
My God! What devestation! Not just in terms of human lives but in the decay of our compassion for one another. All for temporary gains. This pattern will continue as long as demand for drugs is high.
The demand for drugs will always be high, it isnt going to change – we should accept that people will always use drugs and stop treating them like criminals for it!
Human always have and always will use drugs.
The war on drugs is wrong for many reasons.
Agreed...and it's a farce that they are "winning" because the % INCREASE in violence was only 8%...can't believe Zakaria even made that argument (he's usually pretty sharp).
Wow Zak, look at this.More of Obama's minions telling us, the War on Terror is won, the War on Drugs is over. Why we are all justs as happy as peas in a pod. More reason to re-elect Obozo in 2012. The Obama propoganda machine is pitiful.
You types are just pathetic, you only see the world through your black-and-white lenses of republicans good and democrats evil...and there's plenty of lefties doing the same vice-versa. So simple... Nothing in this article brings US politics into the discussion nor does he say the War on Drugs is won.
What? To satisfy all you tea baggers, should every article on every subject always blame Obama for everything? Seem to remember you types complaining when it was being done to Bush...so stop being hypocrits.
to Jake the hypocrite: tea baggers is a derogatory partisan term that casts you as a left leaning partisan – to use that term in a response castigating someone for being partisan is the very definition of hypocrisy!
I generally am a fan of Zakaria, but this piece is limited. First off, I always think it's a BS argument to say you are making gains because the "% increase isn't as high as previous % increases..." - it's still an increase! And, in almost any data analysis of any issue, when you have successive years of massive % increases, your base becomes so large that by nature, % increases will start trending down because the base is much higher than the original base. True progress is when you see % DECLINES. Fact is, the murder rates are super high, an 8% increase to a super high rate is still terrible.
He mentions The Economist magazine - well, The Economist as a publication officially supports decriminalization and regulation over prohibition when it comes to the drug war. And, I completely agree with them. Put cartels out of business by shifting the supply to REGULATED businesses (who check IDs, avoid tainted products, take their disputes to COURT instead of the streets...). No doubt, as history shows time and again, consumers will shift in huge numbers to buying from regulated suppliers over gangs. Prohibition is a great example. Today, the illegal alcohol market is a teeny fraction of what it was in the 20s and early 30s (really just a few making moonshine up in the hills!).
actually the funny part is that for forty + years, the worlds mightiest military force has been at war with an unarmed PLANT, and the plant is still winning.
Voted best comment in this article, so right on the money!
We are also losing a war against tribal goat herders in the poorest country on earth – while also losing the war on drugs there as US military personnel do heroin for fun!
So long as there is a demand, and money to be made, the supply will NEVER stop. Anyone who naively thinks otherwise is just fooling themselves. What is their measure of success? Reporting drug related deaths? What about all the unreported unknown ones?
The US Gov't spends billions of $$ each year on the fight, to stop 1% of the supply. Is that winning do you think? You are better off spending that money on education to deter people from using in the first place. All this war on drugs does is make the uber righteous feel better. Law enforcement and corrections departments love this way because it creates jobs for them.
The theory of war on drugs sounded great back in the day, but decades later it's proven to not have worked.
Think about this cycle:
1. Billions spent stings, law enforcement
2. More Billions spent on court costs
3. More Billions spent on incarceration
4. More Billions spent on the ex cons after they get out of prison and can't find work. Either they are provided gov't support, or they go back to crime to feed themselves (repeat stages 1-4 again)
Want to end the war on drugs? Legalize it. Tax it. Done.
Right Joe!
Legalize it, under an efficient system respecting the human rights, and avoid all direct and indirect criminalities and tragedies and use money for education and prevention instead. But politicians either in USA, Europe and so on, are as criminals as the cartels since they choose for methods that will never win and only causes more deaths.
You cant win against something you cant kill...you can make alot of money from drugs so the want will always be there...to make it available...so there will always be a threat...its an uphill battle...just legalize weed and all the killing will end...people are dying over something so dumb, legalize drugs given to us by nature and all this will end...no more lives lost...money spent on guns...politicians are so dumb...
Legalize all drugs. Provide them free. For a year, you'd have bodies in the streets. But, after that, all the genetic garbage prone to using drugs would be dead and most of the problem eradicated.
NOTHING is free. If we provided those drug attics with drugs, then YOU AND ME would be paying for them. Make them pay for them on their own. LEAVE MY MONEY OUT OF IT.
your tax dollars spent on law enforcement, court costs, and incarceration are spent regardless.
In American more than 95% of drug use is for non-toxic drugs. Drugs that are impossible to overdose on and impossible to die from. These include marijuana, LSD and psychedelic mushrooms.
Alcohol is legal and has been scientifically proven over dozens of peer reviewed studies to be more dangerous than these drugs. Despite that and the fact that you can buy it on every street corner in every American community, most Americans don't die from it. In fact only a tiny % of people who use alcohol die from it.
This is number 9,867 of the times I have heard the "conclusion" that we are "winning" the drug war. Please stop with the BS, and just tell me when we "won", which of course will be never under the present methodology.
If we were all atheist this wouldn't have happened
No if we were all libertarians this wouldn't have happened. There are plenty of atheists democrats that love the DEA!
Ummm, no. Fail. This Christian smoker is here to represent in the face of your stupidity.
I don't understand the question? Who cares who is "winning the war". All I know is "the people" are LOSING their money on this war. End the 50+ year losing war that can never be won.
@Richard.
NOTHING is free. If we provided those drug attic with drugs, then YOU AND ME would be paying for them. Make them pay for them on their own. LEAVE MY MONEY OUT OF IT.
For the amount of your money that is spent on drug interdiction – 95 billion and counting currently – we could keep the entire country high for life. It would be exponentially cheaper to give away drugs for free that to continue this stupid drug war.
Totally agree. End the stupid war and the billions spent on interdiction. Move that money to the additional medical care to treat addicts. Imagine having more jobs in medical care than law enforcement and corrections. More doctors, less prisoners. WHAT A CONCEPT!
You can't win a war on drugs any more than the GOP can win their war on women.
Mexico and America are winning in the drug war.
Mexicans and Americans are losing in it.
Well yea they have .. the US Governmet under this administration has stopped shipping weapons to the drug cartels since Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was killed ... boy that was hard to figure out !
I think it's time that i learn about exactly what has been going on in mexico. ignored this issue for too long
These drug pins are of the top 1%. Protest them!
Has Mexico ever won anything but GI distress
They won the 1999 Fifa Confederations Cup?
"Civilizations" have tried without success to stamp out drug use since the beginning. As long as a criminal can make a buck from drugs and criminals wish to use drugs, they will forever exist. Yes, even your sweet little Johnnie and Becky.
drugs should not be illegal, drug users should nont be criminals – I would bet that took drugs in the last 30 days ! Aspirin, tylenol, cough syrup are all drugs, yes so is pot – the point is that so many Americans are hypocrites, we condemn those who use illegal drugs while being the largest consumers of pharmaceuticals in the world.
I would bet you are being a hypocrite as well calling drug users criminals – shame on you!
Fareed: You are a smart guy, its obvious so the only conclusion I can come to from this article is that you have been "encouraged" to write this, told by your boss to support the war on drugs as policy or some other form of coercian applied to your career. I imagine thats why you have a job with CNN is that you will toe the corporate line.
Its nothing but a full on lie to say that the drug war is winnable let alone that were winning it. Every single post in the comments section says the same thing – stop the drug war, end this stupidity and yet here you are acting as the cheerleader for the DEA! When you publish garbage like this it diminishes the little respect I had for you mr. Zakaria
more of the same
Fools. Mexico can't afford to win the drug war. That's a lot of money going south of the border that would not otherwise be going there. Sure, it's going to criminals, but those criminals also buy things and... 'create jobs'... and that money gets dispersed like it does anywhere. The cartels ARE the government. Calderon is just a convenient, inconsequential scapegoat.
Try thinking about Mexico without huge drug cartels... what else comes out of Mexico that they're going to profit from as much?
Sure, they're winning the drug war, and we're losing it. We're basically handing victory to the cartels every time we turn down legislation to legalize our own products.
Is this article actually arguing that because the drug war related deaths are only increasing by~8% last year and possibly this year that they are now winning??? hypothetical: start with 100 deaths/year in 2006 (low but will use for illustration). Enter Calderon: 29% increases in 2007 and 2008, 22% in 2009, 28% in 2010 and now only 8% last year. that means that there were 280 deaths last year compared to 100 before he started... this is given as evidence that the violence is winding down due to the cartels losing the war?????? This article is 100% B.S.
legal whiskey put an end to boot-leg whiskey.
i would not try today's moonshine when i can buy legal alcohol
why buy cartel grown illegal pot when you could buy american grown, american made, at the store?
Exactly. If something is going to happen regardless of what the government wants, why let the money go into the pockets of thieves and murderers when it can go into the pockets of Americans.
The biggest winner in all of this? The American Private Prison System. Think about it, the only thing worse than a lifelong addiction is a lifelong prison sentence. At least an addict has a chance to get better, a felon, incarcerated, has no chance. Meanwhile, the $meter keeps on running and the Prisons keep getting paid.... parole conditions guarantee a steady supply of "customers." What a complete farce.
I can tell you who is losing the drug war... The American tax-payer.
Sad, but true.
"When a government forcefully commits to take on an internal terrorist or drug group, it usually wins. This is what happened in Colombia over the last decade..."
So... if by win you mean give up and legalize then, you're on to something
Ahem...
http://colombiareports.com/colombia-news/news/19937-marijuana-should-be-globally-legalized-santos.html
::cough::
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/2011/feb/14/colombias_santos_open_drug_legal
I think it should be clear that everyone is losing the War on Drugs. This can best be described by a 1984 book called the March of Folley. The March of Folley is defined as "the perverse persistence in policies demonstrably unworkable and counterproductive". I cant think of anyhting that describes the federal govt, of the last 30 years, any better than that.
Amen brother.
Being slightly less of a failure does not mean it is a success by any means. Failure is still failure.
The failure of the Mexican government to reduce the level of violence within its own borders
is a direct threat to the United States .Illegal immigration and crime are linked .
The federal government won't protect U.S. workers, local communities and
taxpayers from illegal immigration . Push your state representative to make a change .
Google this: NUMBERSUSA .
Once you are registered, go to the "action board" to send free faxes to your state representative.
They are all typed up and ready to go, you just need to click your mouse to send.
I live in Mexico, and to suggest that MExico is even close to Winning this war is insane! There are hundreds of murders a week....and the worst is that it is mostly kids that are all coked up and play too much GTA.....taking a life really has no affect on them what so ever. I dont know what is worst, that this happens everyday or that now we are forced to live this way! We have actually gotten used to death (sad to say). So there is no end to this, MExico will continue to flood the USA with drugs and the USA will continue to provide weapons so that we kill each other off
if by winning the drug war, you mean profitting off it. Same goes for the USA government/police/prison-industrial complex.
that's what a lot of people just don't get. Our own government makes more profit from drugs being illegal then being legal. That's the only reason they are illegal. A lot of prisons are privately owned and our troops guard poppy fields in Afghanistan. It's a corrupt and sick system.
Bye obama Nov 2012
NEVER put Mexico and winning in the same sentence......
BD
The Gold Cup....
I wrote something really funny out then i deleted it. But the answer is flat out no. I mean America cant win and they love locking up anything and anyone that is not white.
No one can ever win a war on drugs. If people want it they can get it and people want drugs. Our U.S. government is actually making money off of the illegal drug trade. They guard poppy fields in Afghanistan, the only reason for that is there is money in it for the U.S.
Mexicans don't win wars.
ummm the Cartels are MExican too......
The only reason they for so long allowed drugs to flow to U.S. was an attrition war bitter from losing massive territory to U.S. centuries ago.
Until our nation gets serious about protecting our borders, any stance our nation might take on any drug war will just be lip service. The reason why illegal immigration is being protected to the level it is has nothing to do with human rights. Quite the opposite; it's all about human exploitation for cheap labor while our politicians turn a blind eye to their nation's security. Why? Because most of them are Mexican drug rings' best, and most reliable customers. Someday, I'd love to see random drug tests given to members of our state and US government (including, and especially the House and Senate). I wonder how many roses would loose their blooms if that happened! The answer is most of them. That's why you'll never see that happen. Birds of a feather flock together. They protect eachother, too. That's why Mexico is winning the drug war.
I seriously doubt they're all illegal coke / marijuana feigns. They don't act like Hollywood or the hip hop / hard rock cultures by doing all that paper work and suit wearing.
However Sarah you're probably right if you lifted the veil of maya on the MEXICAN politicians I think you'd find what you suggested was present in the U.S. leadership.
The author of this is clearly huffing paint, as usual.
Lets see.....50,000 drug-related killings over the past 6 years, and 40 "major cartel members" killed in response by the Mexican government. Meanwhile the drugs continue to flow into and through Mexico in countless volume. I don't know what the total amount of U.S. and Mexico dollars have been spent fighting this "war" but you can bet it's a HUGE number.
That doesn't sound like "winning" to me.
Cheers to the comments of "David in Corpus" above and to others who expressed similar thoughts.
There's never been a war on drugs; there's a war on keeping us from knowing the truth. Dig deep enough and you'll find one of two things – yourself death or you'll find that white men, not Mexicans are at the top of the food chain when it comes to drugs moving between these United States and Mexico.
You'd have to be pretty naive to think that legalizing marijuana would end the war on drugs. Marijuana is the tip of the iceberg considering all the illegal things cartels do for money.
Ilegal aliens are criminals .Obama is tring to buy illegal alien votes.He is giving jobs and benifits to cirminals at the expense of American citizens he is putting on welfare.
As long as there is an illegal market for drugs there will be an illegal supply
The insanity of thinking that killing or arresting all the current drug suppliers will stop the demand amazes me -
I recently visited the Yucatan Peninsula for vacation and seeing the hundreds of decrepit buildings that were scattered along the highway showed how rough the Mexican economy really was. Although there was some Mexican military presence on the roadway I don't believe there was enough to stop the cartels. In the end if you're a Mexican citizen and you don't make enough money to support your family, and the government doesn't help you but the cartels do, who are you going to support.
Im currently in Chihuahua where there is County , State, Federal ,and Military police and that is still not enough. it also gets complicated because it is a very blurry line in who the so called good guys are and who the bad guys are. Mexico is in a lot of trouble and it does not seem to be getting better. Not only is it because people are hungry and will do anything to survive but because the Narco culture is glorified!. There are songs written about them, they set fads amongst the youth, and the younger you die the longer you are glorified!.....
Congratulations Mr. Obama, you've single handedly won the war on drugs in Mexico...by moving it all in to Texas and Arizona. Why have armed gangs beheading Mexico's citizens when we can just let them storm the unguarded frontier and slaughter US citizens?
Hooray! I sure do love Hope and Change ™
well, well, you think maybe holder being busted selling gunst to these cartels may have something to do with this?
Joseph Kennedy made millions bringing in the booze during prohibition...
After Reagan started his war on drug, the number of users went up, the prices went up, the profits went up....now the law enforcement gets millions from the drug trade by taking the cash they find, and taking the property of the drug dealers...in a odd way the drug trade is pay the salaries of our good law enforcement agents..
And remember the CIA was running drugs out of Vietnam in 1968 for the corrupt leaders to get their support for the war..watch the movie Air America...
Anpther obama failure,the war on drugs.It just keep getting worse.Obama would rather procecute American states that are tring to stop illegal imagration than go after the drug cartels.I wonder how obama who has never really worked made his multi millions of dollars.
you REALLY need to lay off the kool-aid!
Mexico will have presidential elections soon too. My hope is that whoever is elected president continues with the frontal fight against the cartels without any political truce. My fear is that the winner may pact with the cartels to create a false peace to make him or herself look victorious, hence 50000 lives will have been lost in vain...
what a joke. America is the only nation in the western hemisphere that wants to continue in a failed war on drugs.
Fareed - Maybe you should move there and conduct a real word based experience study to get the ultimate answer and your expert personal perspective.
Real word based experience ….. That is something you might find educational.
Its because they have taken over mexico and no longer need to cut out their territory, Its also because they have been offset by domestic production in the US. This article is stupid and deceiving to say the least. The truth is that they lost the war on their citizens at the very beginning and have ruined thousands of peoples lives, and wasted billions of dollars doing it. If People would stop being dumb,we might actually live in a better world, Now run off and vote for Romney or Obama, Because the dumb out number the true intellects 30 to 1 so obviously they are the ones that pick the stupidity. Yeah you people are a joke.
fareed is such a tool!
Nope they are not winning the drug war NEXT!!
We can't legalize all drugs, as that would be irresponsible and invite issues. Marijuana appears to be the most agreed upon drug we could do that with, but I cringe when thinking of the issues it would cause here. The number of regular users would immediately rise. I worked with enough people to know that there are many who can't handle it and must do it daily and some even in the mornings.. I know keeping it illegal poses its problems, but there could be many more if made legal. Look at the number of deaths caused by drinking and driving. I imagine the number caused by marijuana would also increase. If the government could control it I would be in total agreement, but I am just not sure.
You dont know a lot about marijuana then.....its nothing like drinking and driving...
Oh now zakaria is a specialist on Mexican drug cartels also?
Good Job. Now it is time to go and get the heads, those who have flames coming from their bodies, once you began taking them down or out, then you shall see what true prosperity means in Mexico and other countries you have the resources needed to make it happen. You have the TRINITY.
Curbing supply and not eliminating demand isn't going to work.
I suppose when everyone is dead you can then claim victory over all the evil plants that grow.
So you're just fine if everyone is walking around stoned senseles...ok.
But what about cocaine? Heroin? Meth?
You want to see those legalized too?
You seem to be strongly influenced by your imagined fears.
Is this from some concern that people will injure themselves? If you claim that I will call you a liar.
Why can’t adults destroy or create their own lives if they want to?
But It is my guess that all of your concerns will simply become non issues as is the case in Portugal, and it will simply be like the rat poison in your cupboard, it will (mostly) be used just to kill rats.
Do you seriously think that "everyone" would suddenly start smoking weed all day and walk around "stoned senseless?" Would you? Would you suddenly want to try heroin because it was legal? I enjoy MJ but would never even consider trying or using heroin, meth, etc. and I feel pretty confident in saying I am in the majority there. Alcohol is legal but everyone is not walking around plastered every day. My point is that making drugs legal is not going to suddenly turn our nation into addicts. Those who are attracted to drugs (including alcohol) are going to do drugs. Those who can't control themselves (for whatever reason) are going to abuse drugs (again, including alcohol). That is human nature and will not change.
We do not have a problem with herb or coca the problem is the kingpins, 10 billion dollars a year is alot of money for an economy. All these cartels think about is the next drug to create or who to murder next and it is only about their greed and that is not acceptable. WE say legalize the product, I am sure it will be beneficial for everyone probably would triple the amount which is being made by them and for them alone.
"In the last 20 years, our prison population has risen over 125% while crime has actually gone down by over 40%."
Did you ever think the two might be related trends? If more criminals are behind bars, that leaves fewer people out to commit the crime.
It stuns and disgusts me at the number of people who would have no problem if millions more Americans became hooked on drugs. Maybe pot isn't that bad...chemically. Of course, if a 17 year old kid is sneaking out of school in the middle of the day to go get high, then there is a fairly significant problem caused by weed.
But if we legalize weed, one day, we're going to end up legalizing everything else. And everytime someone starts doing drugs and damages their future, they hurt the overall future of our country.
Sure, as long as there are people who want drugs, someone will supply them. At the same time, as long as there are people pushing drugs (be it on the street or behind the counter at 7/11), there are going to be people who try them.
We need better methods of combatting drug use, but legalization isn't one of them. The first drug offense should be swift and severe. You catch a kid doing drugs, that kid spends his entire next summer at penal boot camp, then has to attend weekly drug counseling sessions on friday nights for the next year.
Repay the debt to society, then provide the treatment..and yes, if nothing else works, then you lock them up and throw away the key. Better to have thousands of people behind steel than under dirt.
Lord what a fool!
I find it interesting that no where in your one-man crusade against drugs do you even mention alcohol or cigarettes, which, kill more people every year than heroine, coke, and meth combined. And how many people have been killed by marihuana? None. Prohibition doesn't work, it never does and it only encourages the black market. Please think responsibly.
Completely agree with TheJoe – Matthew, your logic is flawed. Talk to me when alcohol and cigarettes are illegal and when doctors stop prescribing pain killers and anti-depressants for the slightest problem. Also see my response to another of your posts below.
It all has to do with how things are classified. Do you really believe 50,000 innocent civilians have been killed in this crackdown? I would be willing to bet a large percentage of these civilians were involved in the drug trade. I see the same thing happen here in Detroit. "6 civilians killed in gang shoot out"....really....6 people were in the cross fire when a shootout started....BS
Drugs and Aliens from Mexico have two things in common they are Illegal and are trying to enter America. ILLEGAL being the main point. If its illegal hoe come law enforcement and immigration seem to be so inept of common sense when it comes to ILLEGAL anything. Enforce Americas laws. But I guess when I say that, most of Americas politicians would fall under the criminal microscope as well. ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL. How hard is that to comprehend Mr Lawmaker.
We can't even make headway into the drug war but you want us to believe a lawless nation is winning? The cartel leaders are more powerful than the Mexican president.
Not many cartels getting rich from alcohol, are there? Not many people getting killed over the mere selling of it, either. Why is that? Because it's no longer prohibited.
Black markets dry up when the wares they pedal are no longer unavailable in the mainstream. Make the wares available in a mainstream setting, and businesses spring up where criminal cartels used to thrive.
It's a no-brainer. And part of the Mexican success is the decriminalization of drugs, but it's not going far enough.
Legalize. Marijuana is a no-brainer. Today we know how virtually harmless it is. Obviously some other drugs are very harmful. But then so are many legal items. You regulate them accordingly. You educate, study, warn and advise. But make it legal. Define the process by which business will be formed and let them go! Tax it. You will decrease unemployment and increase revenue all the way around.
What are we worried about? A few more people may try different substances. Some drugs will replace prescription drugs. There will be some growing pains with this and that, but it's going to be a far superior situation than prohibition ever has been.
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. No body minds when people find their happiness in video games, or extreme sports, or whatever. As long as your happiness does not infringe on anyone else's freedoms.
So obviously, if you choose to use a substance, you must do so responsibly. Maybe on the conservative side of things then, we don't make incredibly addictive drugs like meth legal. Perhaps they require a prescription, whatever.
The meat and potatoes of the drug cartels is marijuana. Just taking that one substance off the illegal list would be devastating to drug cartels. And since it's a natural plant anyway, since it is not considered addictive or at least not severely habit forming like many other illicit drugs, and since it's not caused death, it really never should have been illegal to begin with. By making it illegal and putting people in prison for it, we have enabled the criminals to become multi-billionaires. It's a really stupid mistake.
You want to make laws, then when someone's drug use causes a problem in society, for example, they crash their car into yours, you have laws and penalties for that. But what you do in your own home that doesn't hurt anyone–what you do responsibly, should not be a crime and should not become a means for black market that makes violent thugs rich.
Since the U.S, is the world's biggest customer for illegal drugs, perhaps the U.S. government should try to figure out why. Given the amount of other crime associated with the drug trade, perhaps the U.S. should try fighting the drug war at home.
Try to figure out why people do drugs? What difference does that make? People have been doing various forms of drugs like Sugar, cigarettes, coffee, alcohol, pot, etc. for thousands of years. They aren't going to stop because you do a study on it. They aren't going to stop because you tell them not to. They aren't going to stop because you made it illegal either. Spending billions trying to stop it has had zero results unless you count the 50,000 dead that died from gunshot wounds because of the fight against drugs.
Not one person has ever died from smoking pot. They might have accidently stepped in front of a car or got in a wreck, but medically no one has died from the effects of smoking pot EVER.
Of course they're winning-the cartels are running the place!
"What are we worried about?"
That, faced with the opportunity to cheaply, legally, and easily obtain and use addictive and damaging drugs, and raised in a society in which the anti-drug message is severely weakened by a lack of legal penalties, a significant number of new people will try currently-illegal drugs. Many of these will become addicted, and many of these will suffer long-term consequences or death from the addictions they develop.
From the moment a person is born, the rest of society places a significant investment on their upbringing and future. That many people willingly throw away that future through the use of drugs gives the rest of us every reason to be outraged and angry, and every reason to outlaw drugs.
No, Marijuana is not chemically addictive. No, you are not going to die from an overdose of marijuana. But I knew more than a few people who significantly damaged their life prospects by getting bogged down in the use of pot. I knew people who skipped school to get high, then flunked the test. I even know people who got halfway or more through college, then got wrapped up into using and selling pot, and decided to drop out. These weren't dumb kids, and if any one of them had put even half the extra attention towards school that they did towards getting high, they'd be well on their way to a very promising future.
I can't explain why Portugul has experienced a reduction in addiction...I can only say that it defies all elements of common sense and market economics. Legaizlation lowers prices. That should increase demand. Legalization makes drugs safer to use. That should increase demand. Legalization makes drugs easier to obtain. That should increase demand.
If I could support the legalization of drugs, without the fear of bringing significant harm to large numbers of people, and hurting society as a whole in the long run, then I would. But I can't, so I won't.
Yet alcohol and tobacco (not to mention prescription drugs) are legal which harm and ruin many more lives than so-called illegal drugs combined. My father ruined his life, couldn't hold a job, etc. due to his use of LEGAL alcohol and he died of cirrohsis at age 67 all the while condemning me for "smoking narcotics" (his words). Yet I am successful, busy, my house is clean, my yard is beautiful, I never miss work, I'm happily married, and I NEVER drink. I just smoke a bit of weed in the evening to relax and wind down. How is that worse that drinking? IT"S NOT. Drugs are drugs and moderation is moderation – some people are going to abuse drugs (and I certainly include alcohol as a drug) and harm themselves and possibly others and some are going to use drugs in moderation and never have a problem or cause a problem for anyone else. This has been the case throughout history. No law or religion or social mores or anything else is ever going to change that. Having smoked weed for 35 years and drank (in the distant past) and having known countless people who partake in one or the other or both and been witness to how lives turned out in reality, I just can't see how anyone could argue that legal alcohol is OK but marijuana is not.
"Is this from some concern that people will injure themselves? If you claim that I will call you a liar.
Why can’t adults destroy or create their own lives if they want to?"
From an individual's point of view...they can. But from the view of everyone else, we shouldn't support or enable their decision to do so. Because the more people harming themselves through the use of drugs, the worse off we are as a nation.
=====
"it will (mostly) be used just to kill rats."
...meaning what? That people who use illegal drugs deserve to die?
Reblogged this on Economy and State.
The government of Mexico wins the drug war when the cartel they supports kills the other competing cartel. The entire basis of this article is flawed. The country isn't a country in the way Americans think of one.
dude – it does not take a harvard education to realize objectively and morally that by legalizing drugs (just like coffee or alcohol, with consumption rules and regulations, such as with alcohol) you can improve the economic well being of growers and thus even do away with the crime spree of dealing in and protecting illegal drug trafficking
Kilburn-- I am a graduate from U of I in Agriculture....I graduated in 4 years and even got a 32 on my ACT while I was high as a kite on weed! The sweet grass has such a calming effect that allowed me to focus. I took the ACT again 100% sober and scored a 27.....weird
Landed a killer job and I still continue to smoke (well i guess its half smoke and half edibles) Ahh it's so great. I refuse to drink any alcohol
OF COURSE MEXICO IS WINNING THE WAR, ARE YOU PEOPLE STUPID?
No mention of Fast and Furious? Really? Oh wait, that doesn't propegate the same fear and cause the people to run to the government for protection...
I like Fareed but I don't know about this story. In 2008, the U.S. Justice Dept. warned that "Mexican drug trafficking organizations are the most pervasive organizational threat to the U.S. They are active in every region of the country and dominate the illicit drug trade in every area." Large cities such as Dallas, Chicago, Denver, Detroit, Miami, New York, El Paso, Houston, Los Angeles, Phoenix, San Antonio, and San Diego are drug hubs. The cartels have teamed up with local gangs and criminal organizations. The gangs provide the cartels with storage and transportation, and the cartels supply the gangs with a wholesale supply of drugs. Right now, it's in the best interest of the cartels operating in the U.S. to lie low. With so much money at stake, they try to avoid local and federal authorities, resorting to violence only when absolutely necessary. While the above article suggests possible gains vs the cartels by Mexican authorities, the U.S. government and mainstream media have been relatively silent about just how deeply entrenched the cartels are here in America.
Mexico is torn to hell, and the weed is being grown in U.S. National Parks now. The war on drugs has increased the availability and lowered the price. (See the youtube video where Barney Frank skewers the head of the FBI over this fact.)
Mexico is winning...and the U.S. is losing.
Not that I want to but nothing ever happens to the president and or his closed ones. What side is he in?
Legalize everything and the 'war' is over tomorrow. Tax and regulate, and you'll eliminate organized crime's number one source of money.
It really depends on who / what party is in the White House. If Bush was still in office then Mexico would be losing the war and it is all Bush's fault. Since Obama is in office and CNN is a left-leaning outfit then magically Mexico is winning the war because of Obama.
And if Bush was in office FOX would say Bush and the Patriotic US government was winning the war on Drugs. If Obama is in office FOX will say that Obama and the evil Socialistic US government was losing the war on drugs.
It's called politics and the word truth means nothing to either side, only winning the next election.
The "War on Drugs" will never be won. It isn't meant to be won. It's meant to go on forever.
50.000 lives are worth continuing the war on drugs. what is he thinking of course its not worth it what a bozo and of course he now takes his from the WH.
Time to end the insanity and legalize pot in this country. That will take a big chunk of revenue away from the cartels and stop wasting our law enforment's time and energy chasing and trying to control something that is less harmful than alcohol or cigarettes which happen to be perfectly legal.
Legalized pot means that these cartels brazenly growing it in our state parks will have no reason to continue to do so. These cartel members shoot innocent people that accidentally stumble on these illegal grows, it will make our parks safe to hike in once again.
...and what of the kids who end up screwing up their futures because they spent too much time sneaking off to get high, rather than being in class?
Just because something doesn't turn you into an addict, just because something doesn't kill you, doesn't mean it isn't harmful or destructive or that it shouldn't be illegal.
Alcohol and tobacco have been the most difficult drugs for underage individuals to get since the government first started asking about it in the 70s.
If you really want to "protect the children" then put this stuff in a store, behind a counter, with a salesperson whose job depends on checking ID.
marijuana can be grown individually. It takes quite a bit of expensive equipment to set up your own still to make your own alcohol. And I never say ANYONE in highschool who wanted to smoke tobacco have any trouble obtaining cigarettes.
Legalize marijuana, and it only becomes easier to obtain. And that will only lead to more kids screwing up their futures by spending too much time getting high – whether the high has any medical consequences, or not.
When I say that I know people who have screwed up my using marijuana, I'm not talking about friends who died...and talking about friends who threw their lives away because they dropped out or made no effort, content to head home and roll one up in their room or go back and sell some more to people they knew.
Tobacco can also be grown individually. Do you know many people who would rather have some basement homegrown instead of going to a store and buying a pack of cigarettes?
Also, alcohol production can be undertaken with about the same initial expense as a reasonable size marijuana operations. Do you know many people who prefer home-made wine for their underage parties?
There is one rule in life that never changes.
Where their is demand there will be a supply. You can never win the war on drugs. You can fight it, you can make progress, but you can never win it.
Isn't it ironic that the Taliban drove all the poppy farming out of Afghanistan just before we invaded and drove out the Taliban control...the poppies and the opium were gone, but now the Taliban use the money from the opium sales to buy weapons and fight their war...Turkey, Pakistan,India all legal places to buy opium..are so close to Afghanistan...
We're winning the War On Drugs every day!
I've never liked the phrase "drug related killings". They aren't killing one another because they're high.
They're doing what they must to protect their investments in a multibillion dollar commodities market.
"You can never win the war on drugs. You can fight it, you can make progress, but you can never win it."
....then we continue to fight. And we take comfort in the fact that we will keep drugs out of the hands of at least some people, and keep the worst drug offenders locked up as long as necessary.
=====
The idea that the legal status of alcohol and tobacco justify drug legalization is absurd. It is the equivalent of arguing that a man is dangerous with a gun, so we need to let him buy a knife. It is arguing, in not so many words, that because people already have many ways to screw up their lives, we need to offer them even more avenues for self-destruction.
Are there people who use marijuana responsibly? Sure. But don't ignore the unemployed, the homeless, those who abuse their families or end up in broken marriages, and the dropouts who also use drugs. You can't enable the responsible users without enabling the others.
By all means, support alternative policies to eliminate drug use. But don't forget that using drugs throws away society's effort and investment in a person's future that must be repaid. And CERTAINLY do not simply shrug your shoulders and look the other way while people destroy themselves and pull down our country with them.
What about all the terrible people who do not use drugs? Besides, your argument is a straw man. It's not saying that people should be allowed to screw up their lives. It's admitting that some people are going to screw up their lives no matter what, and deciding upon the course of action that causes the least amount of harm to everyone else.
You do not think that having narcoterrorists taking over countries around the world is a good thing, do you? You do not think that $10 billion a year flowing out of this country and into Mexico, with no taxes being paid on it at any point including the point of sale, is a good thing, do you? You do not think that children being recruited by gangs because of lesser penalties is a good thing, do you? You do not think that there is a better way?
Oh, there might very well be a better way.
but legalization isn't it. Legalization would basically require us to turn a blind eye to anyone who screws their life up (and drags down the country) through their drug use, with the only exception being people who willfully come to others for help.
Wrong! We spend millions of dollars every year trying to teach people about the dangers of alcohol and tobacco use. But that money comes from the sin taxes levied on alcohol and tobacco users.
With police freed from looking at *every* drug user as a criminal, they would be free to focus on the ones who actually are. And the full fury of an unburdened American law enforcement would come crashing down on them, without pity or mercy because they did something, beyond using an intoxicant, to deserve it.
Its not just the criminals, who rob or beat or steal, that I'm concerned about.
With legalization, you can be the biggest social deadbeat in the world, but as long as you're not directly hurting anyone else to get your fix, you're in the clear.
I'd like to see that social force brought down on those deadbeats who leech on society.
Oh, you mean the way there's absolutely no social stigma against being a deadbeat drunk?
Prison doesn't help people become better citizens. It helps people become better criminals.
Then outlaw cigarettes, alcohol, fast cars, guns or anything else that might hurt you in the wrong hands. Two parents were arrested for killing their daughter by making her drink too much water. Maybe water should be illegal too.
You will never stop people from doing consuming what they want no matter how many laws you put in place or how much money you throw at it. You saved a few kids from smoking weed and getting bad grades, but 50,000eople were killed and $50,000,000,000 were spent trying to save those kids from bad grades. I personally know many successful people that smoke weed. You say they are losers, but I know better.
Do I say they are losers?
Nope. Like you, I know any number of successful people who use pot on a limited, recreational basis.
My concern is the irresponsible users.
How can a supposedly intelligent person post this?
How do you win a war, when no matter how many people you kill, there will always be someone to take their place?
Drug use is rampant due to population pressure, and a society where we try to force everyone into the same square hole.
We are driving a greater number of people into poverty in this country with every change. Why would it be a surprise that people try to escape it thru drugs? Look at how many escape it thru alcohol.
I do not advocate drug use, I have seen first hand the damage it can do. But when did we decide that the best way to handle it was dump them in jail?
Legalize it, save billions for a Goverment that is heading for national bankruptcy. Tax it, spend half the taxes on rehab and help that might actually save a few people. How can it be worse than putting a significant percentage of our youth behind bars, which puts them in a position to come right back.
It's time to grow up America, stop trying to force your personal beliefs on those around you. It's not working out very well.
Or use the taxes to fund the free health care initiative. Since drug users will be using it the most, it is fair for their money to go towards paying for it. And this way, their bad habit is turned into a positive benefit for everyone else, too.
Pot smokers don't need to go to the hospital. There is no such thing as an overdose from pot smoking. No pot smoker has ever died from smoking pot in e history of the world as at as I know. Maybe they accidently stepped in front of a car or something, but they didn't go to the hospital from the effects of smoking pot. There is even a report that claims that pot smokers have a much lower risk of Alzheimer's disease, which is pretty funny.
If people could grow their own plants, or buy the plant material at their local store, then the drug cartels would lose their #1 source of income.
Banning alcohol didn't work and neither does banning pot.
All intoxicants should be legalized. There is no drug that instantly and immediately turns every user into a slavering criminal, ready to steal and kill for a fix.
If there were, the government would have long since weaponized it. They sure spent enough money looking for it back in the day.
"We are driving a greater number of people into poverty in this country with every change."
The trends that drive that fall to poverty are the same trends driving people to drug use. Instant gratification, broken homes, personal irresponsibility, and everything else the left has enabled through their fifty-year war on traditional values.
The justification for drug prohibition goes well beyond "personal beliefs"...the use of drugs (particularly hard drugs) is a willful choice to throw away the investment others have made in your future. It creates, as I've said, a debt to society. That debt should be repaid...and I don't mean a monetary fine.
This country offers more opportunity and freedom than almost any other on earth, and the simple fortune of being born here provides a person with a greater chance to thrive than most people will ever have. In exchange, we place a few simple requirements on you: you go to school, you pay your taxes, you salute when the flag goes by, and you abstain from destroying yourself or your future through the use of certain substances. Seems fair to me.
After all, do you really think anyone would be better off if they had to go live in some poverty-stricken place in Africa or South America, even if they could use all the drugs they could ever want?
"and you abstain from destroying yourself or your future through the use of certain substances" ...
However, other substances, those with a more powerful Washington lobby, are certainly fine.
There are millions of people, every day, who use legal intoxicants responsibly. By which I mean they go to school or work, they pay their taxes, they stand up when the flag goes by, and they refrain from destroying themselves.
There are millions of people who use illegal intoxicants responsibly every day, too. Just because a handful can't handle the drugs, no matter it's current legal status, is no reason to assume that any drug can make every person that uses it into a deadbeat or a criminal.
Who said anything about "every person"?
"Every person" who uses a drug certainly won't become a deadbeat or a criminal....but many will. And what those many would gain by not using drugs is far greater than what any responsible user would lose by not doing them.
That isn't evident from the thousands of years in which there were no laws governing the use of these other intoxicants. Prohibition has failed, every time it's been used. It doesn't prevent drug use, and it doesn't benefit society as a whole.
Forcing your morality on others doesn't work. Many are religious. I'm not. I think all religions are man made cults and I think they have brought a lot of pain, suffering and death to the world. I wish there were no religions, but I can't force my morality upon others so I say do whatever makes you happy, but leave me alone.
You don't think people should be able to smoke pot in their homes because you think it's bad and immoral. I say don't try to force your beliefs on me. I know lots of pot smokers who are highly successful people. They don't rob banks, steal cars, murder people or anything else. They are just regular people who like to relax at home.
The Mexican drug lords and the American drug user is winning the war on drugs. The mexican government and the US government are losing because they are paying for the war and getting nothing in return. There is no good solution. it may come down to the cost to society and some form of legalization. Nobody is advocating drug use, however, the cost to society with jails, and law enforcement is to be astronomical.
Sometimes I swear the US Media feeds us the exact opposite of the truth.
During the recent South American Summit in Guatemala, some of the leaders expressed the failure of the US War On Drugs, and cited the extreme violence of the cartels.
In the above article, Zakaria states 50,000 civilians have been killed in just 6 years during Mexico's "war on drugs", yet somehow says it's a success!!!
Who's drinking Kool Aid? Seems like CNN is supporting the Prisoner Industrial Complex in the USofA. Keep the war on drugs going so you can keep building prisons to house petty marijuana criminals, paying private security companies to operate the prisons, charge fees out the yin-yang to prisoners so they remain forever indebted to the machine, and keep paying federal monies into law enforcement agencies to keep a strong police state.
came looking for discussion on the war on drugs, found a book club and a discussion on posting ethics, left uninterested
^ didn't scroll down far enough ^
legalize all drugs like Portugal an there will no longer be a supply n demand for anydrug duh?
The choice is not between "no drugs" and "free drugs for everyone". It's a choice between spending eight hundred bucks a second to protect people from themselves and funding space exploration. Funding new textbooks for public schools. Funding more afterschool programs and repairing our bridges and roads.
Drug use robs people of productivity. Prohibition robs the entire nation of tax income, and creates expenditures that we can barely afford.
And even with all that, I could still support it if at least worked. But it doesn't. And we know that. No one is having problems finding their drug of choice. No one is quitting because the last dealer in the neighborhood is gone.
Sounds like the Carteliban own Mexicanistan. Who's betting the US invades within 5 years? I can see the headlines already "Former indentured/migrant workforce expelled from the US now held hostage by the Carteliban! Team America is prepared to liberate these people from their murderous regeime overseer types, and no it has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of fruit, or our landscaping needs...............Details at 11."
now comeon...how is this more interesting that kardashian/snooki news..we are Americans..just give us our burgers and fires and let the gossip fly...
Only an 8% rise is still a rise.
Lets start with a base of 100 and raise it every year by the numbers given
2006 = 100
2007 = 129 (29%)
2008 = 157 (22%)
2009 = 191 (22%)
2010 = 244 (28%)
2011 = 263 (8%)
Yup 100 deaths a year all the way up to 263 a year. Sounds like victory.
American pot smokers are the winners. No matter how hard the tyrants try, we always get the bag!
rable rable rable rable
By any means necessary so it seems!
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The US public demanded that our government leave Vietnam when we lost about 47,500 soldiers and the same demand was made in Irak when a lot less soldiers were killed. Unless there is a real threat and our interests are severely threatened, we Americans are not ready to put our lives on the line. However, Mexicans and Latinamericans are ebbing killed at unacceptable rates every day and we, the United States through its government, continue to demand from those countries that the bloodshed continue. This is wrong and unnecessary.
We must admit that the "war on drugs" has failed and stop the violence by legalizing and regulating the growing, distributing and selling of marihuana, cocaine and all other drugs.
All the more reason to provide a safe, legal way for people to access drugs. I don't condone hard drug usage (marijuana not included), but to prevent these nasty underground cartels, there needs to be a transparent way for people to access them. The demand for drugs will not disappear with the cartels. In fact, it only makes me believe that eventually a newer, stronger criminal organization is forming to reign in the billions waiting to be had in the drug markets
Thank you for another wonderful post. Where else may just anybody get that type of info in such an ideal method of writing? I've a presentation next week, and I am on the look for such information.
And lets not forget that
1. The real business is not the drug traffic, but the weapon and arms money. The drug traffic is only the mask and the "cause"
2. USA , yes , is the major provider for illegal weapons into Mexico.
3. How come our government goes to another continent to fight someone else's cause and they can not stop drug into our country, somebody must be getting big money for this
Unless junkies start saying "hey man, there's no where to score any more" , then we all know that the drug war has not been won. All the while innocent people in Mexico have to witness horrible murders, are subjected to ruthless bands of extortioners, and are even victims of the senseless violence that has ensued as a direct result of an imbalance in the drug cartel power structure, the only real effect of this drug war. – GP
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