Editor's Note: Be sure to catch "Fareed Zakaria GPS" on CNN every Sunday at 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. ET.
By Fareed Zakaria, CNN
Everyone is looking at Europe these days as economic and political protests mount across the continent.
The downward spiral has produced a great debate about the virtues of "austerity," the idea that governments with large budget deficits must reduce these deficits -– mainly by cutting spending. If they don't get their budgets in order, so the idea goes, they won't be able to borrow money and will face a fiscal nightmare of ever-rising interest rates.
The problem is that as these governments cut spending in very depressed economies, it has caused growth to slow even further -– you see government workers who have been fired tend to buy fewer goods and services, for example -– and all this means falling tax receipts and thus even bigger deficits.
So, economists like Paul Krugman urge: abandon the austerity program, spend more and get budgets in order once the economy has recovered. The problem, in the mind of Keynesians like Krugman, is that European elites, particularly in Germany, have embraced the wrong economic doctrine.
Now, having been in Europe briefly earlier this week, I don't think Europe's elites -– especially German elites -– have really embraced some alternative view of economics. Most do understand that cutting spending during a recession slows down the economy further.
But here is what motivates them: They don't believe at all that any of the governments in question would ever get their budgets in order once the economy recovered. They believe that many of these countries in trouble have economies that are uncompetitive, hobbled by bad regulatory and tax frameworks and also by large and inefficient governments, with ever-increasing entitlements doled out to their citizens. The crisis provides an opportunity to start wholesale reform. Markets have signaled that they will not lend to these governments unless they take measures to get their houses in order, so this is a golden opportunity to get this reform process going.
Many Germans and northern Europeans I have talked to do seem to understand that, economically, the smart thing to do might be to spend now and to cut later. But many in Europe, especially in Germany, believe that later will never come.
In reality, governments spend in bad times and then spend more in good times. So the disagreement may not really be over economics, but over politics.
This is a sad state of affairs because what many people are worrying about, at root, is whether democracy has become part of the problem. After all, politicians have gotten elected over the last four decades in the West by promising voters more benefits, more pensions and more health care. The question is, can they get elected offering less?
That's what stops many Europeans from abandoning austerity and embracing another round of stimulus spending. And I think these worries are shared by many in the United States as well.
 |
Post by: |
© 2012 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
| Advertising practices | Advertise with us | About us | Work for us | Help
Maybe you should inform your readers how FDR saved the country during the Great Depression instead of apologizing for the politicians and and the bankers who caused the problem in the first place.
FDR came to power when the Great Depression was at its worst. He ushered in the 'New Deal' programme (1933 – 1938) to provide relief for the unemployed, and then jobs, as well as attempting to reform and strengthen the American economy. Most conservative employers opposed FDR's National Industrial Recovery Act and Fair Labour Standards Act and so on.
And by 1943 most democrats also resisted FDRs policies, and every single one was repealed except for social security. Fareed has hit the the nail on the head. People keep voting in gov'ts that promise generous handouts and the result is unsustainable debt. This next election in the US is crucial....will we get on the right path or will we go the way of Greece. Where do the Greek people think the money will come from?
Bring back FDR and let him run Europe! If the bond purchasers don't have faith in a government selling a bond, no one – FDR or not – would be able to continue deficit spending. This will also go for the US. Once investors lose that confidence in US debts, we'll be Greek but two orders of magnitude bigger.
Knowledge is power, be prepared, be aware!
God has put in each being in the universe a connection to him. It is your own INNER GUIDANCE SYSTEM, your own INNER KNOWLEDGE.Instinct and Intuition are but the surface of your own knowledge.Your direct connection to God.The question is how do you unlock it.
There is a New Message for humanity. It speaks of Great Waves of Change, it speaks about Alien Intervention, it speaks of the future and saving humanity and it says it will all happen within the next 20 years. It is within the individual, within their own Inner Knowledge. It is for this time the message has come to show humanity how to unlock their own Inner Knowledge, to assist in saving humanity. To read more go here:
[lhttp:// newmessage.org]
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL!
Be prepared, it is vast, it encompasses all of humanity's plights, it is profound, It will resonate within, for your own Inner Knowledge will tell you this
http://newmessage.org
And thanks to FDR this country is suffering due to the stupidity of his populist ideas. First any decent historian will tell you FDR's new deals did little to reverse the depression. What really saved this country was WWII. Everyone in the world wanted arms, our lands were not under attack and we became the factory to the world. Heck, by the end of WWII due to the devestation elsewhere the US was 50% ot the worlds economy (no thanks to FDR).
Of course what FDR dd give us was Social Security. And like any Socialist program it works well at the beginning but eventually can't function under it's own weight and starts to collapse. You do know they are already paying out more from SS than taking in for funds, right? And by 2030, all the previous funds pulled in extra to pay out in the last 70+ years will be used up, and then chaos. You see prior to SS, people in this country knew they had to save for their own futures or keep working to the grave. After, they said to themselves "Gee, Uncle Sam will take care of us ... lets spend our money now rather than save". So while SS was sold as a safty net to cover only this without sufficent savings, the program was designe to encourage Americans to NOT SAVE and become dependent on Government. You can take any FDR supported program and show how in the long term it has done more to damage this country than help. That is the legacy of FDR ... lazy, good for nothing American dependent on care waiting to be fed and cared for rather than being independent. FDR would be sickened to see the American of today.
"And thanks to FDR this country is suffering due to the stupidity of his populist ideas."
Yeah, that's why this country was a beacon of prosperity and #1 in most statistical categories from the 1940s until the fascist, neo-confederate-baiting Reagan took office and handed power to the wealthy.
Yes, Ken, poor peoples' problem is that they're all lazy. Nice.
Will, sounds like you're the guy who will just believe what you want to believe ... you either didn't read or ignored the rest of his comment. It is true that historians generally believe that the primary reason we "became #1 in all statistical categories" is because of WWII. The simple reason ... every other country was decimated while we had built a huge manufacturing capability for the purpose of war. What ... social security is the reason we dominated manufacturing and other economic measuring sticks? Other social programs? As for Reagan, we were well on our way to losing our dominance in manufacturing before Reagan came to office ... and by the way, as late as 2010, the US was still the largest manufacturer in the world and our share of global manufacturing has stayed relatively even over the last 30 years (22% in 1980 to 20% in 2009). We are a country of 300 milllion ... China and India both have about 1 billion more people than the U.S. ... we will not be able to dominate economically indefinitely no matter what our government does.
Of course that ignores the well known fact that it wasn't FDR that pulled us out of the Great Depression, it was WWII, and being able to build and sell tons of stuff to Europe. FDR's policies extended the depression.
And thanks to Mr. Hitler, the US economy got on its feet through wartime industrial production. Had Hitler not come along the US may well still be in a depression. Many economists believe that FDRs programs not only didn't help to end the depression but, rather, extended it.
I think this sums it all up so well.
" People keep voting in gov'ts that promise generous handouts and the result is unsustainable debt."
Democracies are destined to fail, as soon they recognize that they can vote themselves anything, without any need to pay for it.
The convenient realities we can create for ourselves on the internet, the composition of facts we wish to believe regardless of their veracity is what will lead to our undoing. 100 milllion historical revisionists and 100 milliion "preach to your own choir" bloggers cannot lead America back to it's greatest glories. Apparently, the south WILL rise again.
FDR's program's never worked it took WWII to bring the country out of the great depression. Know your history and Economic History
What FDR did wasn't exactly novel. Across the pond, Hitler did similar things. Heck, there are historians who argue that the great pyramids were built for that reason!
The US recovery from the Great Depression was indirectly the result of WWII but not because of FDR!!! FDR really extended the GD which has a normal 18 month cycle that has been faithfully steady sense the Dark ages. It was the large number of soldiers returning from WWII that upon arrival they got married to their sweethearts then having children and began looking for homes. That created the housing boom to go along with the baby boom that moved the economy forward. Not FDR!
ken, you're right that people before SS never retired. Roosevelt needed to decrease the employment base, so they created a retirement age and SS to allow people to get out of the job market, making jobs available for younger people.
Will, the US was #1 in world for so long after WWII because we were the only major country not physically handicapped by the war. Our economic engine was running full steam to repair and rebuild Europe.
What was WWII if not a giant stimulus program? In essence, we jacked taxes up to 95% on the top rate and put a ton of people to work making stuff that we destroyed almost immediately. Everybody had money and the country took off. It's the opposite of the GOP recipe for success that has gotten us mired in this massive economic slump, but let's put them back in power.
As some others alluded to with Social Security but didn't quite hit the point. SS was not primarily created as a retirement safety net. It was a jobs creation program. By guaranteeing older workers a source of income if they retired, they would do so, and that would free up employment for younger workers. It was a gimmick, and it worked while the population was growing. Now that the population is shrinking, we have a huge problem...
The New Deal policies that FDR implemented did very little to help the economy. But these policies that put programs into place like CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps) helped get our entire country back in order. Like the name says, the program helped get our natural resources back and healthy again. Because so much land was plowed and farmed at the time and our horrible farming practices, it dried messed up the ground. This furthered our depression, because much of the country is farmable. They helped repair our forests, beaches, parks ect. Before the New Deal policies came about there were no law s about children working.The.Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 did just that. That law created child labor laws and created a minimum wage. These are gov't programs, so of course it was gonna cost the gov't money to implement, but it was probably the best thing he could have done at the time.
WW2 did solve the problem. But what was WW2? MASSIVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING and government direction of the economy. Funny how so many posters say 'FDR did not do it....WW2 did!" as if WW2 was some thing separate from economic policy. WW2 was exactly what they accuse FDR of except on an EVEN MORE MASSIVE SCALE! So if you believe WW2 solved the depression they you are also saying that massive government spending solved the depression. You can't argue both sides and be taken seriously.
Actually its been one of the grossest misunderstandings in US history that FDR save the country. WWII save the US economy. FDR's communist make-work programs were winding down towards 1939 and the economic benefits that people were feeling were about to disappear again. Lucky for the US, Germany invaded Poland causing the UK to declare war on Germany. This in turn caused the UK to reach out to the US for vast loans of funds and military equipment. It was this economic boom in 1939 that pulled the US out of the depression – nothing else.
And ever since then, all Democrats have to do to "prove" that wasteful stimulus spending is actually beneficial, is utter some lies about FDR and the "new deal." Its a shame so few people understand history and economics.
FDR was a failure until someone brought the gift of a world war for him. Trying to repeat that again in the nuclear age is too dangerous. Besides, 1940's democracy was very different from that of today. That was before people found out they can just keep voting all sorts of "rights" to themselves and have someone else foot the bill.
Wrong – FDR's policies led to decreased unemployment and increased GDP every year until he decided to listen to the deficit hawks and cut back prior to full recovery. Once these cuts were made in 37 unemployment jumped again (still not to the level of pre-FDR) and GDP growth slowed. These policies were reversed prior to the US entrance into WWII and the recovery again progressed – WWII simply led to a huge stimulus (which was needed in the first place) and sped the recovery.
Excellent reply. And it should be noted that by 1943 virtually all of FDRs 'reforms' and policies were repealed by a BIPARTISAN initiative. Keynsian economists said by reducing gov't spending, corporate taxes, and regulations, at the end of WWII there would be a recession. The opposite happened.
Spot on jack....modern voters are all about voting for the candidate that is offering the most in benefits and social programs. Pathetic.
The opposite happen because Europe was in shambles. If you wanted something overseas you got it from the US – no artificial stimulus was needed. By the way Keynesian economics call for stimulus programs to come to an end when the economy has recovered. FDR jumped the gun a little bit in 1938 and stopped the stimulus programs as a previous poster already said. What we do know is stimulus programs work to some degree depending on the size of the problem and the size of the stimulus.
Are we living "1984"?
WWII was a "gift" and democracy is a "problem"?
Enlighten us all how much of our federal deficit is the result of wars and tax cuts that mainly benefited the wealthy.
As it is most of the deficit is money borrowed from the SS "trust fund"
In reality "socialism" is subsidizing "crony capitalism" for the past 30 years.
+1 for Jack's post.
In FDR's time things were quite different. Programs like CCC did a lot of good both for providing jobs and improving infrastructure. However, they didn't have the restrictions about who to hire, lazy workers could be fired, etc. Also, the character of the citizens the was much different than today, when many seem to feel it is government's responsibility to provide for their needs. The post about WWII ending the depression is correct.
Reagan was a failure who sold this country out to multinational corporations and bankers. If you honestly think that the United States from 1980 on (aside from a brief moment of prosperity in the late 90s) was better off than the USA from the late 40s until the late 60s (after some Texan capped Kennedy and a successive group of corrupt southern fascists and southern-fascist-appeasers took turns living in the white house) then you've lost touch with reality.
Johnson – Southern Fascist
Nixon – Southern Fascist Appeaser
Ford – Unelected Southern Fascist Appeaser
Carter – Southerner, ldiot
Reagan – Southern Fascist Appeaser
Bush – Southern Fascist
Clinton – Southerner, Absolute Embarassment
Bush II – Southern Fascist
Now you understand why this bunch of horrible spitting, slurring, tea bagging red necks hate Obama so much.
I thought Martin Luther King said "judging people by the strength of their character, not by the color of their neck".
Did I miss something?
@Will – "after some Texan capped Kennedy" Lee Harvey Oswald was born in Louisiana. Don't worry; it still plays into your delusion of Southern fascism.
1980 was far better. We had better technology and that made all the difference in the world. Far more difference than any politicians. Too bad we have so many fools with humanities degrees (womens studies? what a joke!) protesting in the streets when they could be developing wonderful new technologies to solve problems.
Some comments, in noting the role of WWII in getting America out of the Great Depression, are equating that with a large gov't expenditure stimulus. The comments are saying that justifies a gov't stimulus today. There was a big difference. WWII destroyed much of Europe, so the funds stimulating American industry came not only from the US gov't, but also from Europe. It was a stimulus program funded by the world with disproportionate benefit to America (as the major player whose industrial complex was intact post-war). It wasn't a self-funded stimulus.
I can take it a step further. It took the Clinton administration more than 4 years to turn the huge
$255 billion deficit they inherited from Bush Sr. into surpluses. It will take Obama 8 years to clean up the current conservative mess. The overwhelming truth is that Conservatives are a dismal failure at economics. That's why they need people like Rush and Fox, to distract people for seeing things as they really are.
wow.....that must be some tasty kool aid.
Actually Scott read my reply to you below. Clinton worked with a republican controlled congress to REDUCE gov't and the economy grew. He also said the thing he regretted most about his Presidency was raising taxes. Interesting that Obama has not followed what Clinton did, and incidentally the two men do not like each other. I am a moderate republican but I felt that Mr. Clinton did an excellent job. The current President is an immature, narcisstic idealogue and needs to fired in November.
It has been shown time and again that Clinton never had a surplus unless you count what Monica missed.
Clinton inherited something bigger than the deficit. He was elected the year after the World Wide Web was launched ushering in one of the greatest explosions in economic expansion in human history. The president could have been a potato in 1993 and still presided over the incredible (and unregulated) boom that occurred.
TED - As an Independent I always find it amusing when a person on the right or left for that matter makes a statement - well the president was controlled by congress (the other party). In other words it was my party that saved the day. You take credit for too much. Yes Clinton had to work with congress but the key is that they did work together. They're linked as they should be. Regarding this president he has a "house" that is in chaos – even Boehner can't control his own party. You are slamming the president but not the congress. Furthermore, the president did not create this financial problem/recession (small part perhaps). This problem started long ago. So when I hear someone like Boehner, Lindsay Gramham, Mitch McConnel and others (democrats too) slamming this president for this economy I can't help but wonder how these life long politicians can act as though they had nothing to do with it. In other words, if you are going to blame the president you ought to blame these guys too - Boehner over 20 years, Mitch McConnel over 25 years, etc., what the heck have they been doing?
i totaly agree with u but how many people will take their head up from their ass and admit the faild policy of these so called fiscal consertive republican. they are the ones that put us in this hugh defeict problem and pretend now that they care so much. when they were nation bulinding around the world they didnt ask where the money was comming,now every time things need to be done to put this country forward they ask where the money comming from. they should have that when they were giving the hugh tax break to the wealthy and the 2 war , and their nation building around the world
Scott, don't use my name when you spout off such idiotic rhetoric in public, it's embarrassing.
Scott,
There were NO surpluses during the Clinton years. The national debt has risen every single year since 1957. Over 50 years of continuous deficits. An Honest person cannot relabel a growing pile of debt to be a surplus. Only a dishonest person will make that argument, if they know the truth of the matter.
The congress (which does the actual spending) did a far better job under Clinton, and was far more irresponsible again under Bush, but that does not mean there was a surplus. There was not.
Clinton reduced the deficit by cutting the Military to the bone. Since Clinton the reserves and National Guards have carried much of the load of US interference in the Middle East. The State militia was never intended to be a force for world conquest. If a country is bound to impose their failed political system on the world, they should do it with a standing professional military.
I say we cut the military budget 50%. It's not like they've won a war in 65 years and even then they needed the British and Russians doing most of the heavy lifting and 2 atomic bombs to do it. Cut 'em to the bone.
Clinton benefited from the Tech Bubble, the same bubble that burst not long after Bush got in the White House, and led to 5.4% unemployment. If Obama had been elected right after Clinton, I have no doubt unemployment following the tech bubble bursting would have been more like 12%, like it is now (if you look at all of it, and not just the unemployment Obama sycophants use, which is still bad at over 8%... Didn't he say he would be a one-term President if unemployment was still that high at this time? I wish he would keep that one promise).
Fareed hit it right on the head with this one. The US had an opportunity to pay off the deficit when Clinton was in office. Did either of the parties make a serious effort? Nope. The "conservatives" had control of Congress and the only thing that changed was tax breaks were on the order as well as spending increases. They are just interested in keeping their jobs and we let them.
I don't think we should just stop spending on social programs for similar reasons that Fareed stated and I definitely don't agree with a balanced budget amendment (talk about tying your hands when you need room to manuever). Once we get out of this recession we should start to pay off the deficit.
It's what every citizen in the country has done from time to time: If you get laid off, you pay what you have to and probably take on some credit card debt. You get your job back and you pay off your credit card debt with any surplus until its gone. That way you can still eat and have a roof over your head when things are tight, but you won't be underwater for long after you get you job back.
The news at the time was "Clinton doesn't have an economic policy, he doesn't need one". Clinton lived in the era of the Dot.Com bubble...which punctured about 4 months before he left office leaving it to President Bush to clean up along with 9/11.
Clinton did nothing except ride the coattails of the internet boom
What is often (or maybe conveniently) forgot is that a key person behind many of the New Deal reforms (especially the banking reforms) was a man named Marriner Eccles, a conservative Mormon banker from Utah. He encouraged stimulus spending to get the country out of the Great Depression and was attacked by other conservatives for supporting FDR's big-government spending programs. Ironically what pulled us out of the Depression was WWII – a massive government stimulus – and what kept us from falling back in after the war ended was Cold War spending – even more government stimulus.
The man behind Clinton (David Walker) is also a conservative. Isn't funny how these men need Democrats to listen to them?
Yes we are still in depression and hardship to find a permanent job, on my opinion : the Technology we are in is the cause of problem ?Postal service I don't buy stamp I pay my bill on line, I don't pay boxes only stamp to mail my packages . Satilites, is make the business slow and slow,we are in the very much advance of technologies, I used to send telegraphic transfer to talk to my family abroad, but now I talk to them by cellphone or better email.t
But now I talk to them via telephone
You are mistaken. WWII was a gift and during the war many of FDRs policies were repealed by repubs and democrats, despite dire warnings of a recession after the war. Instead the economy boomed after WWII. The only thing FDR did that was left intact was social security.
Let's look at California right now. When times were good the state spent like crazy and now revenues are falling and our democratic governor refuses to cut spending, insisting on raising taxes, and scaring voters with mantras relating to how essential services will suffer. California has more gov't workers than people employed in manufacturing. The DMV for example is was overemployed. This cannot be sustained, CA will go the way of Greece and if Obama is re-elected the entire country will go the way of CA.
Clinton raised tax's and an economic boom, and Bush lowered taxes and the economy failed. I'm sure you have many excuses to explain the facts.
Actually Scott let's look at things a little more deeply shall we? Bill Clinton took a shellacking at the polls in '92 and decided to work with a Republican congress. He was smart....he moved to th emiddle and worked with people. Gov't spending was drastically reduced and the economy blossomed. Clinton himself said the thing he regretted most was raising taxes; take note of that Scott. Our current leader has steadfastly refused to be flexible to come to the middle, rather than offering tokens, and the result is that he has alienated congress and the business community. Obama is no Bill Clinton as has to go.
Not everything was repealed after the war (think FDIC, Glass-Steagall, etc). Many of those programs weren't needed any more after the war ended, so it made sense to get rid of them. In addition to Cold War spending, another reason our economy boomed after WWII was pent up demand from the war years when people weren't spending money on luxury goods, etc. Also, as a country, we still had lots of room for Capital investments (factories, etc) which contributed to growth.
Regarding government spending, the idea is that in good times the government should decrease spending so when the bad times come around they have resources available for stimulus projects (the old story of the ant and grasshopper). Unfortunately, most politicians can only see as far as their next election and don't really care about the big picture. Trying to convince them to cut spending is like trying to convince a child not to eat candy, especially when the economy is in good shape.
And Social Security and its derivatives are the leading cause of the US budget deficit today.
Social Security Medicare, Medicaid, and direct assistance programs are more the HALF the us budget......
Ted - the president has alienated congress? Really? The same congress that is now controlled by the right-winged tea party members? Ted, they signed a pledge not to raise taxes. As an accountant I like math. It does not take a genius to figure out that we can't keep adding to the deficit without improving the economy. Furthermore cutting federal spending is not the sole solution to our problem. Taxes will need to go up – especially on the rich (not much but a few points), if we are truly sincere about turning this ship around. So tell me TED how has the "house" helped out the president? I think Boehner wants to shoot some of his new comrades because even he can't work with them.
steve – I had to go look something up - Social Security. What you said did not jive with what I believe so I went searching for the truth see below:
Myth #5: Social Security adds to the deficit.
Reality: It’s not just wrong—it’s impossible! By law, Social Security’s funds are separate from the budget, and it must pay its own way. That means that Social Security can’t add one penny to the deficit. (#8) Defeating these myths is the first step to stopping Social Security cuts.
http://www.seniorcitizenjournal.com/social-security-medicare-government-articles/more-truth-about-social-security/
SS does add to the deficit. it's separate account (not so separate) is borrowed from before we borrow from China.... therefore we have many IOUs in that "account". Right now, the national debt is not 15TRILLION, it is actually 65TRILLION in unpaid debts. Social Security- the worlds largest Ponzi scheme. end of story.
If by 'recover' you mean 'prolonged' the Great Depression, then yes, FDR did that.
I'd suggest reading Murray Rothbard's book on the Great Depression to put to rest those silly notions.
Government spending has never, ever, in the history of man, solved any economic crisis. Austerity is the only way to keep precious and scarce resources in the hand of businessmen rather than incompetent politicians (being a bit redundant).
By 1937 the economy was actually experiencing a fragile recovery. In response, the government tightened fiscal policy and the Fed restricted monetary policy, causing another recession. The idea of deficit spending was not fully embraced, even by FDR himself, who campaigned on the idea of fiscal prudence. The thinking was rough times were good for because they purged all the bad stuff out of the system, if I recall correctly. William McChesney Martin famously said, "The job of the Federal Reserve is to take away the punch bowl just as the party gets going." The flip side is when the party gets going you put the punch bowl back. This is one of the arguments for the Fed's independence. Incompetent politicians definitely can't understand the concept!
MJ - WWII was a rather large stimulus wouldn't you say so? Acute pain is what you seem to be suggesting. Let the whole world financial market fail, right? I don't subscribe to this kind of pain – some pain yes but not the type you seem to be suggesting. It took us time to get to this bad shape and it will take some time for us to dig our way out. Of course I also believe that there is more going on here than just a recession caused by irrational exuberance. Perhaps there has been a permanent shift in the work place itself - one person today can make a lot more widgets than the worker from a decade ago. I read somewhere that the housing market was responsible for 25% of our work force – the housing market is coming back anytime soon. By the way no economic theory is perfect - more art than science I'm afraid.
Rothbard rules. Keynesian economics needs to be laid to rest. Europe is fantastic proof of Malinvestment. Even Hayek is starting to become popular in my travels to Asia, Keynesian intervention failed the Asian markets in 2008.
You forget that the only reason FDR saved the economy is becuase he brought the nation into a state of total war. His economic policies were largely ineffective until the factories had tanks to build. The long term success in the united states after the war had a ton to do with the fact the the US was the only industrialized nation in the world that was not in a literal firestorm for 10 years.
None of the Governments does the right thing. Why? Power!!!
The right thing is to be transparent in all political processes, to reform the financial system and hook the banks to small business and draw a line. SS for 6 months no more. In mean while, there must be a forum for business ideas and everyone whose idea seem feasible,gets support from a bank, which supervises her development. Bank must invest in start ups. What Govs can do is focus on international trade relations and work towards improving international distribution channels so that any product or service can easier find its market place. The education everywhere is antiquated too. The formative years of a child are spent in learning long outdated logic, knowledge or life skills. In countries like China, education is a propaganda and brainwashing instrument of the Party, i.e. there is no education as we understand it.
Today in my opinion we have a cultural crisis and paradigm crisis. We all collectively must raise our consciousness and see the bigger picture. What I am afraid of is that most of us are not up to this task. The continues brainwashing of the general population, East and West, the traditional laziness of a big part of population created downward vicious circle of ignorance, confusion and fear. It is bad!
China is a banana dictatorship, semi-industrial feudal corporation run by feudal minds. The culture is in 1000 years old mind set and while it is changing, the change-speed is too, too slow. China raised, because the West begun to sink. Our morals begun to sink.
Doing bss with China only strengthen their Politburo . The little improvement of Chinese people condition is a side effect of Chinese propaganda. 70% of them are still poor beyond belief and their human rights are below 0.
Whatever you wanna say in a politically correct way, you cant say the truth.
The truth is one – the world is dividing. The old is dying, a new Humanity Mind is getting born. The question is – what is your choice and will we escape a calamity. IT will take a few decades and it has just begun.
As far as China is concerned – it is a nest of Evil. Traumatized population, corrupted values, lack of intellectual power, dictatorial primitive political regime, huge gap in status between people, nothing creative. It does best what it does best: engage others to solve its problems while it make money.
Europeans would point out that countries such as Sweden and Switzerland that were industrialized and managed to stay out of the war enjoyed untold bonuses. You probably mean that the US was the largest industrialized economy that suffered little during the war, and thus reaped the largest benefits thereafter.
Unfortunately, FDR actually prolonged the great depression. It only finally ended because of world war II. One of the factors in causing the depression (besides the Smoot-Hawley trade wars) was the income tax which put downward pressure on the motivation to produce.
Zakaria again shows how out of touch he is with the realities of the world. Expousing his leftist views on " just keep spending until there is no more left to spend and then default on what you owe " shows just what this muslim extremist feels is needed to bring down the world order as we know it. How about I spend some of my money and buy you a one way ticket back to India!
When a child is brought in this world, it's born hungry and will require to be fed until it departs. In Roosevelt's day the vast majority was hungry ecomically–food and shelter. Today, those who are ecomically well off, are more interested in satisfying their palates with success parties than being thankful for mere food and shelter. The rich want to build an edifice to a myth, the struggling are looking for food and shelter while waiting for a political myth to comply. The point is balance; the haves have enough votes to offset the have nots vote. The haves keep the have nots in the dark like mushrooms and feed them bull--. Our shelter is already plastic, now we'll start eating it, everbody.
World War II solved the great depression more than FDR did.
FDR is responsible for the spending that has led to our $15 trillion debt. He lit the fuse that will eventually destroy the country.
Are you serious? How can that be if there was a surplus of funds when Clinton left office?
The problem in America is all the "Hand outs" are to big business in the form of tax breaks, loopholes no property taxes in some states. Stop giving big business the freaking handouts! Bush gave them FREE HUMMERS! really?!
We spend more on the military than any other country and why? We got nukes, game over.
WOW, i now agree with the media's portrayal of our school system degradation. State property taxes somehow associated with Federal deficits, and HUMMERS. Nice.
We , America spend more money to the small country that need help, like afghanhistan. Pakistan, and so on ,and our money suppose to spend to our people inside who need more help, but no ? I don't no more what to say America is a very generous country to other countries ?
WWII saved the country. Unemployment was still above 10% when we entered the war, and had been for more than 10 years, most under FDR.
Good point.
FDR took 16 years....16years....a monkey throwing darts at a dartboard with ideas on it...for 16 years...would have ended the Great Depression !
Really? Its so easy to end a Depression none the less a Great Depression? So why have we been in this recession for 6 years with no end near?
FDR, Reagan and Obama each took office under terrible economic conditions. Of the three, Reagan received the worst: unemployment far worse than when Obama took office, roughly equal to when FDR took office (though it was measured differently then), a national debt at a higher fraction of GDP than when FDP or Obama took office, plus the worst inflation the US has ever had.
Reagan set policies that cured the economy.
FDP and Obama used the economic crisis as cover for policies that increased both the power of the government over our lives and the power of partisan Democrat bureaucracy over the government.
Fareeds, Fareed! You're so great at getting to the bottom of most things, I'm just a little surprised you missed the main thrust of this one.
It's ALL about fairness!!! People will sacrafice and give up a lot if they actually could believe that they made mistakes.
The problem we have here is that those that benefited from the good times, and were MOST responsible for the collapse, are not the ones being asked to correct the situation.
All the things the government promised, should still be there, except for the fact that the peoples money was STOLEN, and in irony, only found in western thinking, the victims must be punished!
Sad indeed!
Not sure what history book you've been reading, Mike Farr, but it's pretty well acknowledged that only private sector manufacturing brought on by WWII ended the Depression. FDR spent money to make it look like he was doing something, much like Obama spent billions in an ineffective stimulus package, to give the appearance of accomplishment.
FDR did not save the US from the Great Depression. WWII and the massive pouring of resources into industry required to fight WWII is what ended the Great Depression. FDR did try, but all of his programs still fell short of what was needed to end the Depression.
FDR prolonged and deepened the depression with policies that he pretended were the solution to the depression. Fortunately, at that time the US economy was not such a critical part of the world economy that bad policy here could prevent recovery elsewhere. The rest of the world recovered from the depression faster, despite worse fundamentals, because they didn't go wild with government expansion. The US was slowly being pulled out of it depression, despite FDR's policies, by the recovery elsewhere. Then the war elsewhere boosted the economy here.
Without FDR, the US would have led the world to recovery rather than followed.
FDR's stimulus spending didn't work. The military industrial complex output during WWII did.
Actually what really got us out of the Great Depression was the massive war effort leading to up to and including WWII. What wars help economies? Yes they do, it drains government finances but is a boom (pun intended) to industry. Why do you think recessions happen when the armed forces goes through big cuts. The recession in the early 90's was due to the military complex being whittled down after the Cold War.
Some may be slow so let me make it real simple. All industry supports the military. Everything from paper clips to tanks, medicine to missiles, food to explosives are needed by the military. When they stop spending that is a loss to all industries. I am not advocating massive military spending, but its the best way to get industry moving and it hurts industry the most when its cut, especially when its done drastically.
No habla Americano
Three amigos , porke no habla Americans, why you log in if you don't speak English go to school and learn so you can voice out your opinion?
FDR did nothing but cause the depression to go on much longer than it should have. His predecessor also worsened the depression by his idiotic implementation of controls and sanctions. It took WWII to get us out of the Great Depression. Not because of the war itself but because the very programs FDR initiated in his "New Deal" ideology. My father was a dyed-in-the-wool Dem until he began seeing the result of FDR's socialist policies. FDR wanted only to give to those that would not work so he and his conies could get re-elected. And think of this; FDR was the first president to not follow tradition, tradition established by George Washington, that presidents sit for only two terms. No More. Why? For the very reason of breaking away from England. We did not want a permanent president for fear of one acquiring too much power and trying to establish something other than a free republic. Go and read and try to use your brains for other than political bantering.
FDR's policies did not bring the US out of depression. It was not until the onset of WWII, and the mobilization of the entire US Insudrial Complex to a war footing (combined with shipping it prime working age men to fight overseas) that the depression ended. Some even postulate that the New Deal policies actually extended the length of the economic downturn, much the same as today. However, you can't lay this at any one Presidents feet. The fact is, that during good economic times, out government should be running surpluses and paying down its debt. Historically, that is what we have done. Just look at how much the National Debt ballooned kduring WWII, and the resulting reduction after the end of that war. The current problem is that when times are good, politicians rationalize that they can spend more, because the economy is so good. When times are bad, they argue that they have to spend more to get back to the good times. Deficit spending has its role, but when it becomes a long term practice as opposed to a short term tactic, you end up wiht the situation we have today – A bad economic outlook, spiraling debt and unemployment, and rapidly dwindling options. If we ever manage topull ourselves out of this mees, I hop[e we remember this mess and start earnestly working to reduce our debt.
Uh the difference is we have money...europe doesn't.
Setting the foundation for a "nanny state" is hardly what I'd call saving the country. Democracy isn't the problem. The problem is liberal socialist spending. Ushering in an age of reckless abandon and a total disregard for personal responsibility is the fault of liberalism and socialism. Liberals love to turn to FDR and revere him. They do so because like very concept of liberalism, FDR presented one face while truly believing something much different. He wanted to be seen as the provider and defender of the common man. In reality he thought of himself as a king. In fact, Eleanor actually wanted him to declare himself King. Only his forethought for how that would be perceived by the common citizen stopped him from publicly declaring himself "King." This is just how liberalism works. Sell a bill of goods, in this case the idea of personal liberties, and maintain power by providing everything to everyone. Then when the citizens of the nation are indentured to it, you've gained complete control of the people. A government big enough to give you everything you want or need is big enough to take everything away from you.
The FDR is apart of the problem
FDR "saved" the county by going to war. Is that what you want. Democratic mythmakers shill this all the time. that FDR;s programs were successful and effective when in fact they were not. FDR lusted for war because, among other things, it would give government complete control over the economy. That's what he wanted all along.
So dream on my friend.
Austerity
What sun me is the lack of understanding of that word by peoples who want to apply austerity measures.
An Austere person isnt'suicidal and isn't either as extreme as St-Francis of Assisi
In fact a good example would be Jackie Chan in the movie *the laughting Hyena*
Hard working, active, eating what he needs and no more, not being greedy
The peoples asking for *austerity measures* want to cut social program
and increase the burden on the middle class, while also cutting taxes on the rich,
throwing lavish royal wedding and buying trully uggly giant sculptures (in London)
That's the opposite of austerity ! and can only lead to self anihilation.
A really austere country would keep good social program,
but perhaps makes enrolement in school mandatory.
It would be quite harsh on the rich, and strong in enforced job creation.
You do not discuss with an austere country
And it doesn't allow you to renonce citizenship and fly away to singapore, the crime syndicate paradise
Instead, they would hunt you down , confiscate your riches and throw you in jail
like the traitor you would be
They wouldn't cut on regulations, but instead increase them, for the good of all.
but because an austere country likes to be lean and efficient,
it would probably simplify the code and end up with a single law...
if a jurry find you guilty, you are. no complicated law, just common sense.
I mean don't tell me BP didn't knew they messed up in the gulf oil spill.
they knew, so did everyone else. common sense.
I like austerity, if it's done the right way.
I don't think the rich would like it, because some are too fat.
they walk arround with all those riches and forget to recognize all those riches come from the country they live in.
they stop caring about peoples.
fortunately some rich peoples still understand it is a privileges
and that they must behave properly and responsibly
and use that money dutifuly, not selfishly
they are what I call austere rich peopes.
they are job creators, inventors, contributors, philanthropists.
Democracy, in the US, is not the problem. Our broken political party system is to blame. We need to ban both the GOP and the Democrat parties. Allow our citizens to elect "Patriots" instead of "Partisans". Our two parties have grown much too powerful which allows them to ignore the real "will of the people". How many scandals have we suffered in the past 20 years? Sure, "legislation" has been passed to correct some of the causes. But wait, laws passed does not mean laws put into force! Too many "legislated" corrections have never been implemented. So the crimes of the "rich" against the "middle class" continue to go on. (ie: the Facebook IPO, foreclosures, corrupt banking practices, oil speculation and more). Congress has passed legislation to correct many of these problems, yet most are just sitting there not being implemented. Simply passing legislation no longer works, it is just a means for politicians to brag about their work and get re-elected.
Thats a very confusing story Freed. I guess a stupid people is better than no people at all lol.
It took FDR forever and a day to get us out of the depression. WW2 is what saved us. America was to stupid to elect anyone else. FDR was part of the problem.
WWII saved the US economy during the great depression... No if ands or buts.
FDRs programs extended the great depression. WWII ended it. Just because something happened during the great depression doesn't mean that what happened made the depression go away. I'm sure FDR took a dump on a regular basis too... I doubt his efforts in the restroom ended the great depression either.
There were some really enduring projects that came about as a result of the WPA and similar programs that were enacted under FDR's supervision, but they didn't really pull us out of the depression, or really make things any better. The outbreak of WWII is what cured the economy for us. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 16MM people, 12% of the total population, served in the Armed Forces, and while they may not have been in uniform for the duration of the war, their absence from the workforce contributed to the easing of unemployment. Though they were absent from the workforce, they still needed to be fed, clothed, and armed, so they remained, in essence, consumers.
The truth is 1930s US an 21st century Europe are two different types of apples so to speak. First of all, countries within the Eurozone would never agree to anything like the new deal because they are multiple countries with different economies and needs. A large part of the end of the Great Depression was over time people became more confident, and with that the economy grew. This is time that countries like the PIIGS (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, and Spain) do not have. Lastly, what brought jobs and the economy back was World War II, which will not happen in Europe. While options to get the EURO back on track exist, returning to the ideas that resulted in progress during the Great Depression will not help.
On a side note, the points made in Mr. Zakaria's piece were excellent.
The truth is 1930s US and 21st century Europe are two different types of apples so to speak. First of all, countries within the Eurozone would never agree to anything like the new deal because they are multiple countries with different economies and needs. A large part of the end of the Great Depression was over time people became more confident, and with that the economy grew. This is time that countries like the PIIGS (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, and Spain) do not have. Lastly, what brought jobs and the economy back was World War II, which will not happen in Europe. While options to get the EURO back on track exist, returning to the ideas that resulted in progress during the Great Depression will not help.
On a side note, the points made in Mr. Zakaria's piece were excellent.
What does FDR have to do with anything?
Fareed is pointing out (but somehow can't seem to say it) the CULTURAL differences between the peoples that at least give lip service to living within one's means and those that are oblivious to money, how it is made, and budgets; or perhaps feel they can put one over on the rest of the collective.
If you love your children: People, peoples, cultures, and countries that do not live within their means are to be avoided at all costs. Their logic and principles are faulty; they bring themselves and those attached to them to ruin soon enough
Democracy is the Problem? Europe tried autocrats and serfdomfrom the 11th century through World War I, fascism from 1918 to 1945, democracy dominated by communists and Catholics through the 2000s and now has adopted Milton Friedman's Shock Doctrine and Austerity for economics. I guess Europe missed the part of the economics course where Keynesian economics was explained. IMHO, Europe should Dump the Austerity thugs; and Stimulate the economy with loans and grants and bonding measures.
exactly, but world governments want to destroy democracy and usher in a world government, he knows its true this is the media's way
Nobody is blaming the high flying financiers who actually run the show. Their unlimited greed is what took down the world financial system. It is easier to blame democracy.
Democracy is the highest form of political thought and the overwhelming majority of countries around the world are unable to exist under a democracy. The test for a nation's readiness to accept Democracy is very simple. Two citizens must agree that they will faithfully and willingly stop for red lights; not because it is good for each of them individually and not because they will get a ticket for passing a red light but because the system is good for BOTH of them.
Democracy is not meant to provide optimal efficient governance. Democracy is not meant to provide the best ideas or produce the best results. Democracy accomplishes two main goals. It insures that no bad ruler stays in power too long, that when things go bad, the government changes. It also makes citizens feel part of the government. This causes citizen input and critique, which can be extremely useful, especially at the local level.
Indeed, the two famous historical advocates for grassroots' movements – Artistotle and Jean-Jacques Rousseau – they had a perception of democracy which was tangible only on a small-scale. Even then it was difficult for folks to be unanimous and the general will usually prevailed. Today with the increase of population we see the inability of many to reach consensus. Instead democractic movements have become a power struggle.
I'd agree that democracy does not provide optimal results. As you point out, compromise is necessary, leading to compromised results. The most efficient form of government (not best, mind you, but most efficient) is, and always will be, dictatorship. It grants the maximum flexibility to one individual to control the entire government. It is the ultimate form of "small government." An individual could optimize results to provide the "best" form of government for some purpose (quality of life, economic prosperity, etc.) but with a democracy there are always too many competing interests. Democracy isn't freedom; it's giving up optimum results and flexibility for everyone to have a voice at the table. It is itself a kind of compromise.
I was originally against a balance budget amendment. In the 90s, I thought we had finally taken control of our budget. After watching the United States (and Europe) for the last decade, I'm convinced some form of a balance budget amendment in vital to long term prosperity.
Democracy IS the problem. People should elect elites to government, people who are capable and wise, who listen to experts and have intellectual background in areas pertinent to governance. However, we do not, we elect demagogues. Walter Lippman's phantom public exists no longer as a phantom but an actualization in government. Until we shake off the anti-intellectualism and anti-elitism, we will continue to have people like Michele Bachmann elected to decide the course our nation will take. The real difference between democracy and republicanism is that in a republic, there is a sort of deference to a kind of "natural aristocracy" by the people. That the people are not supposed to decide the course of events so much as they are to decide who is most qualified and of the most outstanding character who should govern.
the elites are greedy, these are not the best people, you know better
The problem with letting govts spend at will during recessions is that they never stop spending after those cyclical downturns. Once the economy gets going everyone wants a piece of the pie in tax breaks, handouts, etc.
Name me any boom in US history and I will tell you of a time that we reduced taxes and increased spending at the same time. Austerity is not possible during an economic boom because most citizens dont want to slow down the recovery.
I agree that govt spending and growth oriented policies are the only option for certain countries right now. However there needs to be a plan put in place that stabilizes those govts with long term austerity measures after the economy rebounds. Legislation that cannot later be changed by another administration seeking to pander votes.
Sounds like are proposing beneficient dicators who rule for the publics good..
Good luck with that lol
Ah, yes. Philosopher kings! Those were the days. Also: parents should not be allowed to raise their own children and should give them up to the state in order that they be raised in accordance to the philosophical tradition that will separate out the men from the boys, so to speak, so that we can figure out who our next philosopher king will be. Read Plato, he knows what I'm talking about!
Agreed – we need the philosopher kings from Plato's Republic.
Unfortunately, that which is given (the right to vote), cannot be taken away. Not without violence. So the only options left are 1) violence to change the status quo; or 2) let the status quo fail, fall, and then rebuild from the ashes.
It seems that by design or by fate, we've chosen option 2. We just need to give it a push from time to time, in selecting utter incompetents to power. But when our system falls – and it will – will we be ready for it?
Angela Merkel embraces growth, but sustainable growth. She insisted on structural reforms of Greece's economy. Most Germans believe Greece has over-borrowed in the past and can't just go on borrowing without pulling its weight. Growth
They also think they worked very hard and accepted less pay, while their country went through an economic crisis. They lived within their means and started to save. Today their economy does well. They earn more, yet many still don't feel comfortable about spending.
EU aims for a perfect society, almost an Eutopia. The spendings and legislations of all EU countries are thus planned. EU asks its members to convert low VAT food producing small industries into high VAT industries. This is not natural for a self sustaining country unless you aim to buy slave labor food from underdevelopped countries for lower prices. Eventually the food of a EU country depends on MONEY. But you can not eat money. As the solar system goes hectic and seasons are unreliable this principle is less believable.If all converted" EU countries become industrial and produce high VAT goods than who would produce food for them. There is a smple caricature of this in Asterix and Obelix" Do buy the "Menhir Makers" you will get the whole eonomy with a smile. Cheers.
I thought the menhirs were floating these days... But they are going down at the moment.... Did anyone understand what menhirs are for?
The EU faces ardent challenges.
tough days ahead for the EU
tough days ahead for the US
I know the europeans living in the EU oppose budgets of austerity but there are times in economics that things have to become worse before they become better. To close deficits, tax increases and spending cuts may be painful but in the long run they are effective.
I have a hard time considering the structure of the European Union a democracy. All I see are Luxembourg, Switzerland, and German states looting the rest of Europe! The lords and ladies and the banks looting the rest of Europe. Singapore works just fine on whatever spectrum of democracy they have and here in Europe I see the elites looting the population whether through poor tax structures or through dumping "services or exports" on weaker regions. How does that sound my right wing lord and lady friends? Maybe you should run World War I again!
Democracy is a step towards freedom, and socialism is a step towards freedom’s opposite. Justifying the step away from freedom can make sense, but we should not consider this any kind of success, more like a survival tactic. Lets not forget that forcing harsh austerity turns the gears of war by creating severe disillusionment.
I wonder why all these discussions always leave out increased revenue? When our family budget is slim, sure we cut back luxuries, but we also we find extra work, we do not charge more on the credit cards. Austerity or high debt are false choices.
The problem isn't in Democracy as a concept per se, but the fact that democracy has stopped evolving or that we have stopped evolving democracy considering it so 'sacred' as not to change it. Democracy may be the most marvelous system to have been adopted, however it too needs to evolve, change and grow according to advancement in technology and society. Sadly we have not done so. Mobile phones are great – that is why we continuously change them and bring new technologies to evolve it so they become better. But democracy – No. It has stood still as a concept left behind and therefore threatens to become archaic. Ever seen people sit in Uk parliament shouting strange ayes and nayes or in courtrooms wearing strange wig's? No that's not the problem but that is a symptom of the problem. Elsewhere we have parliamentarians throwing shoes at each other. All this isn't wonderful democracy. democracies are sick and democracy as a concept is becoming archaic. If we as a modern society wish to enjoy the fruits of democracy (and yes there are) we must have the guts to bring changes to it.
ref.: "This is a sad state of affairs because what many people are worrying about, at root, is whether democracy has become part of the problem."
Self rule, self-interest,....the worship and desire to serve one's own interests before and above any other interest for the fellowman.....this is the root of the problem.
This is the love for the "god of fortresses" as Daniel described....love of self before love for the other.
Man has placed this "god of fortresses" before and above the One True Way of Life...above Christ...above the One True Creator God.
God has given man over to the tribulation of his own righteousness because man has rejected the One Truth and time is running out for man....for the return of Christ is at hand...to rule the earth according to the One True Way with a rod of iron.
There will be weeping and the gnashing of teeth...for man loves his self-interest way of life and will not accept the One True Way...but it is Christ that will rule.
I totally agree with you John. Our real problem is that we have only studied and analyzed human challenges through a physical lens. We have not realized that human beings have two natures, the divine and the physical . Unless we start looking for solution into the spiritual realm, we will never find the happiness we have been looking for centuries now. We have tried to figure out how to lead human beings to a state of happiness with only natural approaches ( socialism, capitalism, democracy...) only to realize that each of those remedies have,are and will be a complete failure. Those ideas, make our situation worst than it already is. It is time now to take the divine nature of mankind into consideration and look for solution there. There, CHRIST is the ultimate solution.
This is an excellent point regarding what should be done now and what must be done later. Paul Krugman doesn't expect post-recovery miracles either. Krugman has pointed out that the US has never repaid the WWII debt. Instead, our economy grew so fast that it shrunk the debt in relative terms, making the WWII debt a non-issue.
Mr Zacharia always has great insight into different matters. Once again he is right on point.
thew problem is it allows partisan propagandist hacks like you on the public airwaves to distort, lie, misrepresent, propagandize and attempt to persuade people into YOUR point of view rather than just reporting real news.
Democracy is a wonderful theory/concept which cannot be practiced in its full and purest form therfore it has to be modified to function in a way that works for todays modern societies. In my opinion, other than some core concepts, it should not be used uniformly across diverse socities of the world. It should be adopted and practiced according to cultural, religious or beliefs of each socities/countries........what would work in Europe may not work in Americas or Asia! Democracy need to be changed and adopted accordingly.
hindu, denial of truth absolute, western democracy, choice by self will in hindu Judaism, criminal self center ism, secular ism is hinduism crime against La, truth absolute360*, foundation of existence including humanity. Every thing created by hindu santans, criminal goons in their hindu Judaism, criminal secularism in opposition to truth absolute is bound to fail, including hindu filthy democracy, have no doubt about it, hinduism, filth of hindu's criminal sanatans, goons, god's of hinud's, ignorant s have no other direction to go, but to hind, dust including their hindu Judasim, criminal secularism.
How can you give the power to people that are ignorant and easily manupilable? The present democracy can not properly work with those type of people. Unfortunately that's what we have become over the year: Ignorant. A new type of democracy is therefore needed. The enlightened democracy.
Enlighten is hinduism, absurdity of hindu Pharisee'a, criminal hypocrites, light means truth absolute 360, and hindu Jew's, criminal self centered, secular s hind, propagate their hindu Judaism, criminal self center ism, secularism, opposition to truth absolute, as enlightened, but in reality hinduism, criminality to impose themselves as man god's of humanity. Western democracy is hinduism, denial of truth absolute in hinduism, deception.
Word hindu is based on Latin word hindrance, negative, Hun, great, Han, to be in greatness and hin, to be negative to both of them, hinduism, way of negativity, denial of truth absolute.
The answer to Fareed's question above seems to be an unequivical YES! Sometimes we need authoritarian rule. All these countries need to bolt the Eurozone.
No one holds authority but truth absolute and every one has come from HIM and answerable to no one but HIM, granter of human equality, regard less of hinduism, criminality of pot head hindu sanatans, criminal goons labeled as religion's, races and languages in their hindu Judasim, criminal self center ism, secularism.
@hindunegitive You seem like a stark raving mad lunatic, and an incoherent one at that. None of your posts make any structural and semantic sense, please crawl back into the ignorant hole that you have crawled out of. In case you are not paying any attention the topic being discussed is the role of democracy in the economic framework of nations, and certainly not religion bashing.
USA is many times larger than Europe's countries. It could ride over its economic problems just by the sheer size and number of people who, if given the right incentive, can defeat the mathematical projections of those who believe in overcoming budget deficits by weakening the peoples' ability to afford to buy what they need and by cutting funds for education, invention and research, and incentives for people to innovate for newer industries in alternate energy. One thing that for sure will help prevent over-blown cost of medical care and government social programs is the need for smarter ways to reduce corruptions, frauds, and over billing due to duplication of unnecessary medical services not to dismantle them.
To expect the mainstream Americans to exercise austerity, we must also expect that for those much is given, much is also expected to help if the country is facing economic difficulties.
I would like to say something about this article and about Germany in general. I've spent the last living there and I would like to say that I have come to understand their thinking. Firstly, let me say I am only talking about Germany because it is the biggest economy in Europe and the one that is key to dealing with this crisis. That being said, the problem I see is psychological and historical and not just economical. From a German perspective any kind of borrowing is generally thought of as negative. Borrowing money for whatever reason is not something that is done in the same way as in the United States. Here we can borrow, defualt, start again etc. with no problem. For Germans and Europeans alike we must remember that they don't forget history like we do. People still remember the Depression, Post-war period, reconstruction and reunification of Germany, Germany has gone through many many financial troubles in the last 100 years. It is also dealing with it's war legacy vis-a-vis it's neighbors and trying to come to terms with the fact that as the single largest economy in Europe it has to lead. I was there the year that Germany won the Euro-Vision contest (European song contest) and everyone in Germany was asking if other Euopean countries finally liked them? So I think from this side of the Atlantic, looking to Europe the solution can seem very clear but that solution is one that is not tied to other political, historical and cultural sensitivities that exist there. Bottom line is that they have to work it out in their own way and democracy is NOT the problem. Authoritarian rule is not a solution, ever!
Absolutely agreed. I spent 10 years in Germany and am now in the Czech Republic, and Europeans across the board are skeptical about the Euro. Many here are convinced that the Germans love the Euro because it floats the German economy at the expense of everyone else. (A deflated currency but still producing high tech manufactured goods, while other Europeans just lose their jobs to Eastern and Central Europe.) FZ is right that European economies are held back by popular socialist programs (thus high taxes), and it is perhaps the crux of democracy. I do not think FZ is suggesting that authoritarianism is the answer, rather that democracy can find it difficult to make fundamental changes to existing systems.
If Germany keeps insisting on austerity there will be NO ONE to buy their products and that certainly will not be good for Germany. They are in the euro, they say they want and support the euro, they need to think further than their own
short term pocketbooks.
Where there is NO progress in people's lives, mostly because of disparity between the rich and the others, corruption, and a populist Government, democracy is deemed as dead. And such conditions exist in EU countries.
Mr FZ Take down that EU wall and thats the fix.
It's not about democracy. Its all about dept, budget and spending.
With India and China starting in 1948, the garbage on the streets of India and china can be compared to see the results of democracy and dictatorship rule.Other things can also be compared by visiting china and India and results of democracy can be seen. Soon people will see the results of democracy in Libya, Iraq and Egypt.Europe and USA will be the next to benefit from democracy(Greece will be the first to enjoy the results of democracy).
According to the Law of Supply and Demand. When the supply of labor goes up (population) the demand for labor (jobs) goes down.
Whith the rich hogging all the wealth, and machines doing all the jobs, the poor are left holding the bag.
There is no economic "plan" that will fix the problem of ignorance and greed. This is why the world needs STATSMEN like Ron Paul instead of chasmatic, slick talking winners of beauty contests.
Democracy; Government of the lowest common denominator
Couldn't agree more with you!! The answer to the Global problem of debt caused by the system can be replaced by the Resource-Based-Economy Model as advocated by Jaque Fresco of The Venus Project. The Earth with its resources are to be enjoyed by ALL and not the 1% Elite power lords.
The only answer to the global economy problem is to follow the Resource-Based-Economy Model as proposed by Jaque Fresco of The Venus Project. This Model is for the benefit for all humans to be enjoyed and not only by the 1% Elite few. No one will survive on eating and drinking money...relieve the global debt like Iceland did and put the power hungry lords in the jails.
Going UNNOTICED amidst all this talk of European economic decline are some TECTONIC changes that are impacting Europe IRREVERSIBLY taking away Europe's ability to stand on its two feet.
That is the issue of a REAL REDUCTION in Europe's tolerant, enterprising, local Christian population and an IFLUX of immigrants from Islamic countries which is growing at 10 TIMES the average of all other groups put together (in the UK). For example the MOST COMMON FIRST NAME for babies born in the UK is MOHAMMED. That's the case in nearly every other country in Europe.
The issue is these immigrants FAIL TO ADAPT to European society even after generations. For example in a leading British survey reported on Timeonline one in 3 British Muslims was OK to kill in the name of Islam, and over 40% wanted Sharia in the UK. Also while nearly 80% looked at Iran as a rational actor (Just as Mr.FAREED ZAKARIA!), only 10% looked at US that way.
Also European Muslims (just as Muslims even in the US and literally everywhere) are at the bottom of the pile when it comes to economic and social advancements. No wonder the NYT published two articles citing polls from PEW showing that a greater percentage of Muslims in Europe survived on WELFARE, and RELIGION was a KEY FACTOR in overall Muslim backwardness.
All this talk of AUSTERITY, Economic revival are meaningless unless European leaders also parallely address such issues which are slowly & steadily PULLING THE RUG OFF EUROPE's feet and hastening Europe's slow & steady demise.
It appears to me that muslims are the fastest growing segment of world society today. As others are withering away the muslims seem to be rising again with their contributions as was the case historically when they ruled India and Europe and left behind a legacy of science, art, architecture, culinary et al. One only needs to go to Spain and India to witness this. As immigrants, It is a good thing to be aware of your glorious heritage and be connected with it. The Italian immigrants do it as do the germans, Polish, Jewish, Hispanic and many other cultures. What really pleasantly surprised me was what I witnessed in the Middle East. A tolerant society that has come so far in a few years. Most importantly providing job and economic opportunities to to all, Hndus/Indians, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Europeans, Americans, Africans, South Americans, Chinese, Russians etc. Never have I witnessed such openess and equal opportunites unless you go back to the times of muslim rule in India and Spain. My conclusion is that the muslims get it. They are striving to once again take their leadership role in the world order and take this civilization to its next level of excellence. The climb to succes and progress is not a linear curve but a stochastic one. Let us join in wishing our muslim brethren well and much success in their endeavors. If we can't help them let's not pull the rug from under them.
Thank you Fareed Zakaria. I posted a comment saying something similar to Paul Krugman on his NYTimes blog several months ago, and his response was to have me blocked from ever posting comments there again. I'm hoping that he watched your show on Sunday and/or read your blog here. Let's see him try to block you from saying such things on CNN or in Time.
In my comment to Krugman I tried to express that the current global economic problems just aren't amenable to either austerity or stimulus because the problems aren't due to the business/economic cycle but are rather structural in nature. I don't think that I expressed what I meant by that in my comment to him as well as you expressed it on your Sunday show and here in your column.
But in addition to lacking the political will for the necessary reforms, I also think that there is an ever growing income and wealth inequality, as explained by Robert Reich, that is really at the root of the global economic problems. I further think that the reason this income and wealth inequality has persisted and grown even through this severe global recession is because the wealthy 1% has far more political influence than the other 99% and therefore can and does manipulate the govts of the world to their own benefit and the detriment of the other 99%. They thus direct the majority of the stimulus to ultimately wind up in the possession of the 1%, leaving the other 99% as bad off if not worse off than before the stimulus, and of course also direct any austerity to ultimately mean austerity for the 99% and not the 1%. And this is the real reason why the political will to reform in any really helpful way is so darn hard to achieve and why neither austerity nor stimulus will really help in the long run.
Given this, I think that what really brought us out of the deep depression in the 1930's was when the tax rates against the wealthy rose to such astronomical heights during WWII. It achieved a redistribution of the wealth that normal political means could not achieve because of the greater political influence the wealthy have over govts. This redistribution acted like a reset on the economy, much like restarting a game of Monopoly by redistributing the money and property cards. I just hope that it doesn't take a WWIII to achieve that this time around.
Your comment makes the most sense out of all the others here. We only have to look at when the best of times was in the US. During the '50s & early '60s, the top income tax rate for the so-called 1% was close to 85%. Now, it's 35%. Obviously, the rich are keeping a lot more of their money while the rest of us stay the same or pay more in taxes and necessities.
I am not surprised to hear Zakaria's take on this. Anyone who watches his show knows his bias. I disagree completely and am disgusted by his smug remarks. He is wrong and his support of austerity is dangerous. No one can accuse him of caring about all the people who have been grossly hurt by the policies of the rich and powerful. People who he does support and promote. Really shameful.
They don't have e democracy problem...they argue as much as our government
Unregulated and unchecked Capitalist Greed and Corruption plunged the World into this Depression. Capitalism has served its purpose, but now its a failing system!
The single biggest flaw of democracy is human greed. We will vote and elect for those who enrich us no matter what the long term costs are. Whether you are republican or democrat, at the end of the day you always vote for the candidate that improves your bottom line. This is why we have deficits in democratic governments all across the world.
Democracy is still the best system by far and so is capitalism. But we need to ensure that there are safeguards that protect governments from overspending. The only reason politicians do so is to pick up more votes. Have a balanced budget amendment, extend presidents terms to 6 years and don't let them run for re-election. This will reduce the politicization and partisanship in the budgetary process.
Perhaps there's a problem with the European democracy model that needs to be reformed. What's an even greater democracy problem, which is what we have right here at home in America, is when government is for auction to the highest bidder in an environment where corporations are given the same rights as physical persons but with a whole lot more protection against being held accountable for even large-scale chicanery. Now THAT is what I call a democracy problem.
FACT: 98% of people who comment on CNN stories have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Seriously, reading these always makes me long for a special kind of austerity, an "austerity of internet commenting". Usually, I believe that humans are, on the whole, pretty smart. But then I read these CNN comments and I'm surprised people ever learned how to make fire, let alone the car or the internet. You people astound me.
Good objective article CNN (a rarity),
I like the credit given to those other countries who realize the suppression that austerity will do. Yet the objectivity or realization that there is a GREATER SYSTEMIC PROBLEM that must shaken up, .... otherwise deficits and debts are not reduced, ... even in good economic times.
My observation is not that democracy is THE problem. On balance it is the best overall system. The PROBLEM IS how to infuse accountability to reduce debt in good economic times. Hmmmmmmm. Now HOW do we do that?
Fareed's Take: Is democracy part of Europe's economic problems?
Hellloooo ????
Poor guy...
WHO cares what Fareed thinks? What makes this guy and expert on all things?
Nothing.
Don't you all get it yet? How can people be so blind. This is not a financial problem. It's a moral problem. We have trampled the gospel of the Son of God and been so vile and hostile so as to have given him the proverbial finger. What did you expect. We are now under judgement and it's only the beginning. The blessings of heaven are no longer shed on us. There will be starvation that will make Germany of the late 1920's look like a picnic, and similarly, we will welcome someone like Hitler to solve our problems, only he will be far more evil. There will be concentration camps, gas chambers and incinerators to remove the "surplus population." And all of this be because men have, in their gross arrogance, tried to push God to the outskirts of the universe. But we are about to learn that He alone is God and there is no other... no not even the Supreme Court. Our destruction is close at hand
REPENT! THE END IS NIGH!
We will most likely keep the democracy wagon going. But if Europe doesn't get its act in order, we will most likely see the rise of more fringe parties (both on the left and right) rise to prominence.
Most of the socialist policies were voted in democratically by the people. Especially Germany. They are the strongest democracy there. They voted out nukes, voted in CLEAN energy, but they have horrible taxes. That said, their workers get mandatory 4 weeks off. How cool is that? To be able to get off work and spend time with your family?
you pay 50% taxes in most European countries. those countries that are thriving don't have the welfare liabilities of those that are failing. when the majority of your people work and contribute to social programs then the country thrives. when the don't you get division.
Democracy problem in Europe? How about America where people get arrested for carrying a banner protesting a bank?
the problem is simple. People in the UK and Germany don't want to work until they are 70 so Greeks and Spaniards can retire in their 50s. These kind of issues should have been resolved before these countries were ever admitted into the same union.
We have an administration, that more often than not, goes against the majority of Americans. We have a democracy problem here. Let's clean this one up, before we worry about others.
Fareed, you are right on it. According to Keynes government should increase spending during a recession, but then cut spending during better times. But he suggested that governments do this because there is no other actor that can fulfill a counter-cyclical role. But even he expressed concern that governments would not either spend appropriately or cut spending once the recession was over.
Please take a look into the history and prosperity conseuqently the principles of Europe. It was only 73 years ago when yet another European country tried to solve its economic problems by starting up a war and plunder. The previous one was in 1914 and than again-going back in 1796. This history goes back off course. And it involves the times when pirating was legal and supported by the states. Right back to the ideal of Utopia. Utopia was a than perfect land with only one rule that can not be addopted to the current society. It reuired some sort of "resources" so that the Utopians can live a decent life
If a country's economy is not self-sustainable and it chooses to have other countries with lower man power cost to produce lower VAT goods for her and get her people to produce high VAT goods to sell back to those countries.., It can not be called sustainable. It is just a short term solution.
Democracy is mob rule. Most humans are incapable of knowing what's good for them. Thus spoke Hitler.
thus spoke a lot of people. hitler just happened to have gotten sidetracked in silly things like eugenics and trying to take over the world.
seems like we have one here .....no elected officials (on either party) listen to the masses
Globalization has caught the West red-handed. You can't steal from citizens who have no jobs.
what we need is a conservative, benevolent dictatorship to set us on the right path. democracy is of little use to those who spend their lives in darkness, self-centered pettiness and sin.
So you say govts promise too much to its citizens? How about govts having the courage to enact tax policy that makes the corporations that are making money hand over fist share some more of that profit with its workers? If that occurred people wouldnt need more from govt. It is obvious you are a Harvard- Yale grad who doesnt mind riding on the backs of the rest of us. Ask Wal-Mart employees about being paid so little they rely on govt for medical coverage.
How about government not robbing Peter and Paul to feed themselves?
if you want a share of a corporations profits then buy some shares
You dont seem to understand the problem. If you dont make enough money to provide your own medical care how do you afford to buy stock? You really dont want to offer a solution instead you like the snarky bumper sticker slogan solution. You are one of the people who are bent on destruction and poverty for the US.
Is DEMOCRACY part of the problem? No, you fascist... LACK of democracy is a HUGE part of the problem. After all, it wasn't voters who caused all these problems in banking, nor did they actually vote directly for all the huge wastes of money.
Democracy is always part of the problem. Politicians only care about being re-elected, not what's good for the country. Voters only care about what they can get from the government right now whether it's tax cuts or handouts.
Republican mentality: POWER! POWER! POWER! POWER! nothing else.
but what is wrong with fascism? besides the obvious associations, fascism actually gets things done. after watching the constantly-deadlocked government morass, whether the many-partied european or the red-versus-blue of america, fascism would be an honestly refreshing approach. both sigmund freud and edward bernays had eventually come to the conclusion that popular democracies were the fast track nowhere. men should either be subtly guided by their betters or controlled through the only means man understands – fear and force.
I like how naive you are, you have no idea what you are really asking for. Maybe you should be guided as your basic intelligence is quite low....
Democracy is GARBAGE.
Fareed just described the US government.
One important point that seems to have been missed. It matters what the government spends its money on. Note that the Obama administration did not build bridges or highways or improve the energy infrastructure. He did give money to his friends, like at Solyndra, and they put it in their pockets. While I'm sure the recipients of this government largesse did buy a house or two or maybe a yacht, but if the Obama administration had targeted spending on infrastructure maybe we would not still be in the mess we are. But, even according to Keynes, that is probably expecting too much of government.
This is exactly the reason why the US was founded as a Democratic Republic. Don't believe me? Remember the US 'Pledge of Allegiance'? “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Unites States of American, and to the _Republic_ for which it stands”. It’s not “to the Democracy for which it stands”. Unfortunately, we’ve gone too democratic and not enough republic (not in terms of political party). It used to be that only white, land owning males could vote. The modern equivalent would be that you can’t vote if you’re on a government subsidy (Food Stamps, Welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, Public Housing, etc). The thought is that those who are impoverished would vote for too many transfer payments. It appears their logic was sound. We just need to update how we approach the problem.
Yes, and we see a disturbing trend happening here. The percentage of people not paying income taxes is increasing, and the difference is being made up by charging the rich a higher rate. The burden of paying taxes is being shifted onto fewer people at the top of the economic ladder while the benefits for more and more people lower on the economic ladder are being increased.
The politicians are essentially buying votes from the majority of Americans by charging them less and giving them more. To those on the receiving end, it is essentially free money that they are getting. They don't demand that government is responsible with the money because it is not their money that is being spent. This reinforces the trend so even fewer people pay and more people receive.
It is an unsustainable cycle. At some point the tax base can not support the spending and the borrowing gets out of control.
We need to start moving the tax base the other way. As more people have to pay taxes, and more people feel the pain of paying out, they will start demanding that the government use its money more wisely. It is only then that we can get spending under control.
The very concept of a Government Democracy IS the problem. The concept of majority rule is detrimental to any civilization, especially considering most of the "majority" is clueless in the political topics at hand.
Democracy as we practice it is NOT majority rule. It's only a mechanism to hire and fire government employees. It's the lying, thieving employees who aren't required to do the right thing or follow through on their promises that have corrupted the system.
Yare right. That's why Thomas Jefferson and others wanted a Republic where the populace voted for the electoral colleges who voted for the President/VP since the people can be easily misled by marketing, whims, emotions of the moment, etc. Without getting into conspiracy theories events that affected emotionally the public were used to launch us into wars. For example, sinking of the Maine in 1898 (Remember the Main outcry even though the USS Maine sank due to an accidental boiler explosion in the bay of havana, Cuba) led to the Spanish-American War, in 1916 the sinking of the USS Lusitania led us into WWI, attack on pearl harbor on Dec 7, 1941 led us into WWII, Gulf of Tlkein in 1964 into the Vietnam War, and WTC attacks on 911 led us into Afghanistan and Iraq. No judgment, just public emotion, sympathy, and hate can be used to have the public go to war....
You are right. That's why Thomas Jefferson and others wanted a Republic where the populace voted for the electoral colleges who voted for the President/VP since the people can be easily misled by marketing, whims, emotions of the moment, etc. Without getting into conspiracy theories events that affected emotionally the public were used to launch us into wars. For example, sinking of the Maine in 1898 (Remember the Main outcry even though the USS Maine sank due to an accidental boiler explosion in the bay of havana, Cuba) led to the Spanish-American War, in 1916 the sinking of the USS Lusitania led us into WWI, attack on pearl harbor on Dec 7, 1941 led us into WWII, Gulf of Tlkein in 1964 into the Vietnam War, and WTC attacks on 911 led us into Afghanistan and Iraq. No judgment, just public emotion, sympathy, and hate can be used to have the public go to war....
People here are extoling FDR and social security, which is banrupting us right now. More is spent on Social Security and Medicare than ANY OTHER FEDERAL BUDGET items INCLUDING national defense.
Moral Hazard and socialism are the problem. When we all spend the money we earn from our individual efforts and stop allowing elected despots to spend our money, these problems will cease to exist.
abolish government! the market will solve all our problems. those who can't afford to exist should die.
agreed
When the economic and social interfaces among world communities was softer, the reverberations of bad economic and social policies by one country were dampened at those interfaces, giving other countries time to adjust, to defend themselves and to otherwise respond. In a world like that, democracies which count the vote of the uneducated and under-educated equally with the vote of those who understand something of what's going on, could survive and even prosper. In a world like that, democracies which count the vote of those who hate and fear anyone not like themselves or their neighbors equally with the vote of those whose moral sensibilities embrace the belief that the greatest commandment is, as Jesus told us, to love one another, could survive and prosper.
But we do not live in a world like that any longer. I believe we live in a world which cannot afford a form of democracy which empowers the ignorant and the hateful to form national policy. The buffer isn't soft enough. There isn't enough time to respond before the reverberations of the policies of these dangerously deluded among us shake our structures to the ground.
The anti-intellectualist strain in American society, without which representatives such as today's Republicans could not be elected, has hampered the effectiveness of those who have the education to make informed judgments. The Calvinist strain in American fundamentalist Christianity has distorted the original message of Jesus, and given us elected representatives who profess to be Christians, but who advocate policies that steal from the poor to give to the rich.
We are seeing Western democracy implode under its own failure to educate its electorate and to inculcate universal moral values, values expressed both by most major religions and by the secular humanism that first found voice in the Enlightenment - a secular humanism whose principal value is that it allows the moral stance of a universal compassion for all mankind to stand on its own, without the support of the mythologies which accompany most major religions.
The trouble is that, pace Churchill, as dysfunctional as Western democracy has become, the alternatives we see around us, and the alternatives that we know of from history, are even more frightening. So the alternative to these alternatives is to make democracy work. To do that, we must learn how to educate ourselves. To do that, as a predominantly Christian country, we must recover the original message of Christ, and eradicate the Calvinist idolatry of the rich and exploitation of the poor that goes under the rubric of fundamentalist Christianity in American today, and that is expressed in such proposed legislation as Paul Ryan's budgets.
its not a failure to educate the electorate, more of an ongoing effort in conditioning a more, ah, malleable electorate as a means of maintaining the status quo in perpetuity.
"...you see government workers who have been fired tend to buy fewer goods and services, for example -– and all this means falling tax receipts and thus even bigger deficits."
Of course, what this means is that there were too many government "workers" to start with, And to the extent government workers contribute to an economy at all, it's little and inefficient, and most government "workers" are actual impediments to the economy..
Big Government has been an experiment almost a century in progress, and has failed disastrously.
"After all, politicians have gotten elected over the last four decades in the West by promising voters more benefits, more pensions and more health care. The question is, can they get elected offering less?"
At this point, it no longer matters what the politicians offer. What they've been offering for decades has already ruined many economies to the point where there will be "less," no matter what the politicians offer.
Cash capital of the world is migrating. Than rich countries with plenty to spend do not have enough to spread around any more. They can not keep theri voters happy and quite. Previously rich countries have peope who found time from spending to read and watch what is going on. Before the 80's Turkey was exporting only agriculture and raw cotton, After 80's it began to export plain T-Shirts for a dollar. Than Turkey was buying all its cotton processing machinary from the developped countries. Now it is a different story. Turkey went through the bottleneck of global economy training thus. Turkey's population is 80 m or so. But when China was involved in this global economy, the balances chaged. China did not accept the world-club traders "apprentice-master" relationship. She needed stomacks to fill and did not pay extra money for European created added value services such as sophisticated insurance, financial arrangements, consultancy, survailance and such packaging. These were actually the industries that Europe invested and counted on. I am not sure I did express myself too clearly. However, I know this was expected eversice Chinese quota was lifted.
I'm more worried about America's democracy problem.
" Now, having been in Europe briefly earlier this week..." I guess this makes you an expert on the issue...
The truth is, milk as already been poured, now that we have seen it happening.its time to let our pets(dogs and cats) cut off bellies of those who enjoyed it, if not they will even contaminate the little we have before its being wasted again. please be wise citizens.
Fareed seems to forget that the EU does not have a federal goverment to dictate and spend money. Each country has their own goverment and Northern can not force Southern Europe except by saying we are not going to send more money. Tax payers in Northern Europe already pay more than 50% in tax and 20% VAT and it is not like in the US where only 50% of the population pay tax so they will not support their goverment if they waste money. That is democracy.
Call me crazy – am I missing something here?
Fareed states: "...you see government workers who have been fired tend to buy fewer goods and services, for example -– and all this means falling tax receipts and thus even bigger deficits."
So let me get this straight – the argument being made is to hire back government workers so they can then buy goods, services and pay taxes?
What!?!
How long would this be successful for?
Extending that argument – give everyone a government job...!
My head hurts now.
The point he is making is that govt spending when private sector cant spend keeps businesses in operation that provide services all workers including govt workers use. You would rather more restaurants, shops, etc go out of business and feed the deflationary cycle?
Tim S
So you would rather attempt to bolster an artificial economy? Kicking the can down the road for later? Do you think this strategy was already taking place? And how did that work out?
Companies will adapt in order to survive. Others will fail. That is the only way to normalize the economy...
“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” Thomas Jefferson
As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy.
Abraham Lincoln
Democracy is worth dying for, because it's the most deeply honorable form of government ever devised by man.
Ronald Reagan
If liberty and equality, as is thought by some, are chiefly to be found in democracy, they will be best attained when all persons alike share in government to the utmost.
Aristotle
Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the rulers.
Aristotle
In a democracy the poor will have more power than the rich, because there are more of them, and the will of the majority is supreme.
Aristotle
Democracy arises out of the notion that those who are equal in any respect are equal in all respects; because men are equally free, they claim to be absolutely equal.
Aristotle
Democracy... is a charming form of government, full of variety and disorder; and dispensing a sort of equality to equals and unequals alike.
Plato
The banksters and 1% are no longer going to let a little thing like " democracy " get in their way anymore ....... and we are next , what they don't already own they will suck dry by any means they can . We are next ........
Anyone wonder why we have allowed our government to get so big that when they make cuts it causes a slow down in the economy? We are cutting jobs so now the tax base is smaller so we have to make more cuts to cover that...that is kind of a bs system if you ask me
The problem is not so much democracy itself, but the so far unmitigated greed of current day corrupt politicians and their equally corrupt corporate puppeteers.
You come very close to the key point. It is voters, who have no 'dog in the fight' wanting more and more without any sense of what that more costs and want benefits without responsibility who are a major part of the problem. When you combine them with politicians who have only an objective of staying in office and not leading you then get the situation of modern Europe and the US democrat party.
Fareed, you need to realize that Greece is not really part of Europe. Its culture, its corruption, the refusal if its people to pay taxes and live off of other countries are not European traits.
Can't say about culture. But it seems clear that there is quite a bit of corruption in the rest of Europe – including France and Italy....and the social welfare system has made living off of other people VERY MUCH a European idea.
I don't often agree with Fareed, but this one is spot on. And the money will stop some day... it's just a mater of if we're in a state of total collapse or in a staggered, planned back down.
We know it ain't the Jews. Europe murdered all of them.
"Democracy problem in Europe? How about America where people get arrested for carrying a banner protesting a bank?"
Your democratic rights to not include perpetually tying up a city to scream about how you deserve someone else's money.
===
Greece has an honesty problem – both its citizens and its government are brazen liars and cheats. The Greek government lied to get into the Eurozone, and Greek citizens routinely cheat the system. The amount of money spent to collect each tax dollar in Greece is far higher than it is in the United States.
But as a whole, Europe has a demography problem, not a democracy problem: there simply aren't enough kids and young people to build the economy. Look at the average age in countries like Greece and Italy, then compare that to the United States or India. SURPRISE! When you've got a country full of old people, your economic growth slows while your government spending booms. The liberal economic model is untenable under the liberal social model.
If you are going to spend yourself out of this trouble why spend yourself to get into this trouble to begin with? Spending certainly can't be a solution for both scenarios!!! What say all the think tanks parked in the ivy leagues?
When I was in high school my friend became student body president by promising outlandish things that all knew were impossible for him to deliver. Real issues were totally ignored. Even he was shocked by his win.
of course we have a democracy problem. the problem isnt with the 1% the problem is with the 47% who pay no federal income tax. as well as the whatever % pay little in federal income tax. in order for voters to get the government to spend wisely federal income tax should hit EVERYONE in the pocket book. if liberals want to keep a progressive system, thats fine, but the bottom tier is 10% – make it actually apply. NO EIC, NO deductions. make the lowest run on the totem pole actually PAY 10% of their wages. when we have a huge class of people who pay nothing into the system but sit around on their duff demanding the guy who just wrote out a million $ check to the irs for his quarterlies 'pay his fair share' is it any surprise that the system is so messed up?
How do you pay taxes if you have no money?
if you EARN no money you pay no taxes. if you EARN money, your employer witholds taxes the same way they do now. if you have LITTLE money then you have a little bit less. whats so complicated about that?
Marxism / socialism is a political ideology with profound economic implications. It is what is creating fiscal instability in Europe, and it is where Obama is attempting to take the U.S. It doesn't work.
Marxism in Europe.
What country are you talking about??????
You are either stupid or into passing misinformation.
People often confuse "socialism" with the concept of "communism." While the two ideologies share much in common - in in fact communism encompasses socialism - the primary difference between the two is that "socialism" applies to economic systems, whereas "communism" applies to both economic and political systems.
Another difference between socialism and communism is that communists directly oppose the concept of capitalism, an economic system in which production is controlled by private interests. Socialists, on the other hand, believe socialism can exist within a capitalist society.
Of course there is no democracy in Europe. Europe is a cluster of socialist states that has taken away the very freedoms from their citizens that we Americans hold dear....the first one being the freedom to chose for yourself. Thats what you get from "Nanny" states that think they know better than you do, what you need. And to think that Europe and the Democrats in America want us to be like this. No thanks. NOBAMA 2012.
as a life long republican I can proudly say "you are a fool".
have a nice day.
Dam it .its not all about the party ye support; will ye be happy when yo parents ar the ones in this big scandle Americans have faced. child please group. (HEAL THE WORLD) listen quitely.
We all need a peaceful world
Pull your head out Stan and take a look around you. The devistation is clear to see. "If" you are a "lifetime" republican, which I doubt, you must be a young one, with not many life experiences behind you.
rob, I'm old enough to have a son who probably understands the world better than you do. about the only thing you can rightfully complain about would be obama's healthcare plan and his desire to increase the tax on the wealthy. anything else like the stimulus was well on it's way to reality under bush and wasnt an obama program. as to higher taxation on the wealthy and healthcare, the overall cost of both of these initiatives is minimal. and any REASONABLE republican would agree we NEED healthcare reform in this country. as for taxes, bush's tax cuts disproportionately effected the middle and lower classes, as in saved them more money than it did the rich. that makes obama about as much a socialist as dubya.
O Boy! Fareed Zacharia is a smart thinking person! Democracy is a bonanza and a problem everywhere. That its nature. Sometimes, too much of it triggeres a problem, whereas too little triggers also a problem. Greece invented democracy, and its the bed she made for herself. As I said, democracy is not something that responds to the precept "the more the better"! Greece needs to know this in a hurry! All Europe needs to invent a better "democracy" that is more manageable and lasting! I have called for a new system for that reason, a system that incorporates a reasonable democracy, adding other better solutions to it!
So the problem is govts are lowering retirement age and increasing benefits. During this same period of time worker productivity gains which have been huge and have not been met with any wage gains. This also occurred in the 20s and brought on the Great Depression. This current event which has been created by govt tax policy has caused a huge increase of productive capacity while demand has decreased due to no growth in wages. So these govts that you vilify are actually working to try to balance supply and demand. The correct course of action since it takes less people to produce goods is for people to leave the job market though a comfortable retirement at earlier ages that allows them to purchase goods. Reduced work weeks also are helpful. When I here the same message in favor of austerity on all the corporate networks with no dissension allowed I realize the concentration of wealth, corporate control and media control is complete. This process of total control of the media by a few and near perfect coordination of the message would be much admired by Joseph Goebbels. I dont know how those people like Zakaria can look themselves in the mirror though knowing they are a tool of this process to impoverish the masses to benefit the few.
worker productivity gains have been huge because companies have invested in technology, not because workers ahve somehow managed for fit a 16 hour day into a 8 hr one.
People are working longer hours but technology has made large contributions to the increase. That is besides the point. workers can now produce more in less time. If wages dont increase the imbalance between supply and demand will bring the system down. Ask Henry Ford and his philosophy of paying his workers enough money to buy his cars.
tim, you are missing the point. workers arent working more efficiently in a vacuum. they are working more efficiently BECAUSE of that technology. who buys and pays to maintain the technology? 99.44% of the time it is the business the workers are working for. you seem to want the workers to get compensated for the extra productivity that comes at the expense of the business owner. this would be a perfectly reasonable approach if the workers were buying and maintaining those robots on the assembly line. but they arent.
Stan,
Henry Ford's workers didnt design mass production techniques either but Ford knew they needed money to buy his cars. Otherwise who is going to buy his cars? How else do you balance supply and demand? How does capitalism work when people can afford to consume? You tell me.
What are you talking about????????
You can retire at any time between age 62 and full retirement age (65) since 1937. However, if you start benefits early, your benefits are reduced a fraction of a percent for each month before your full retirement age.
As a general rule, early or late retirement will give you about the same total Social Security benefits over your lifetime. If you retire early, the monthly benefit amounts will be smaller to take into account the longer period you will receive them. If you retire late, you will get benefits for a shorter period of time but the monthly amounts will be larger to make up for the months when you did not receive anything.
There are advantages and disadvantages to taking your benefit before your full retirement age. The advantage is that you collect benefits for a longer period of time. The disadvantage is your benefit is reduced.
Spending your way through recessions definitely can work, but what you end up running up against eventually is systemic failure, where your debt simply becomes too large to support. Then you go into a downward spiral and eventually become bankrupt. This is the crisis that Greece faces, and one day every country will, including the United States, as long as they look to overspend continually.
The only way out of this is to cut government spending to whatever level is required to generate a surplus and start paying down their debt. This is indeed will result in economic depression and a lot of pain but it's like being addicted to heroin, you are eventually going to have to break this dangerous habit or die.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if interest payments on debt continue to climb, eventually these payments will become too high, governments need to cut spending on other things, this depresses the economy resulting in lower tax revenues, which requires more cuts, and so on.
The best thing to do with Greece and some of these other countries is to just let them fail, and not continually look for short term fixes which don't really fix anything, they just delay the inevitable. Along the way they just become an infinite money hole.
The piper needs to get paid, the old fashioned way.
Democracy is not the problem. Liberals and apathy are the problem. Taking what doesn't belong to you, and spending what you don't have... that is the problem in Europe and in the US. The problem with Democracy isn't Democracy itself... it is that people who give nothing are allowed to vote for policies that take away from others. If you don't pay taxes, then you shouldn't vote. It is an inherent conflict of interest. And by the way, if you are not a citizen, you shouldn't be allowed to vote (much less be our President).
The takers are now 50%+ of the population. That is the problem with our Democracy.
Nicely said.
Seventy-eight of the 280 companies in the fortune 500 paid zero or less in federal income taxes in at least one year from 2008 to 2010. Twenty-five of these companies enjoyed multiple no-tax years, bringing the total number of no-tax years to 108. In the years they paid no income tax, these companies earned $156 billion in pretax U.S. profits. But instead of paying $55 billion in income taxes as the 35 percent corporate tax rate seems to require, these companies generated so many excess tax breaks that they reported negative taxes.
But yeah...Us free-loading Americans are the problem.
let the poor die. only those with means will remain. problem solved.
Those rich investors do not know how to run the companies..do not have the strong backs to do the labor,. they would starve without the rest...
I LOVE this mentality. I'll bet your a God fearing conservative. I love how Republicans and conservatives shop-lift Christian values as their own–and then when you hear them speak everything they say and think is implicitly and explicitly socially Darwinistic.
Maybe the European governments should open the books to the public, list everything they have, all the expenses, contracts, income, let the citizens see for themselves where the money goes, then they can have a open honest talk about what to do next...
The basic problem with Democracy is people who are putting nothing into the democracy get to vote. So those leeches at the bottom, the 49% who pay no federal taxes in the US for example, get to vote. And they naturally vote for candidates who promise to give them something in return for the nothing they put into the system. When anyone comes along who says we need to control spending or reduce costs, this takes some of what they are getting (for free to begin with) from them, and so they vote against that person. This desire to get something for nothing gets so bad, the leeches beging to expect it claiming it as a right. Look at the Occupy protesters. They march on statements like building homes and loans should not be for profit (IE .. you spend the money, I get the home), or everyone should get a free college education, or free medical care for all. They are demanding to get something just because they exist. They think they deserve it as they are breathing and that's all that matters. Any Democracy that allows such individuals to gain power is not going to be a Democracy for very long.
And the rich rollover their money, and do nothing, yet reap huge rewards, influence new deals, that are not always the best for the countries, our cities...
Ken
You should look into Germany's system...universal health care, rich doctors, saves money, better care then the US, they have strong, highly trained union workers, government pays companies to hire and retrain unemployed, they have high taxes, good education system...strong banks, second only top the US, on amount of exports they do...
They're called democrats.
Seventy-eight of the 280 companies in the fortune 500 paid zero or less in federal income taxes in at least one year from 2008 to 2010. Twenty-five of these companies enjoyed multiple no-tax years, bringing the total number of no-tax years to 108. In the years they paid no income tax, these companies earned $156 billion in pretax U.S. profits. But instead of paying $55 billion in income taxes as the 35 percent corporate tax rate seems to require, these companies generated so many excess tax breaks that they reported negative taxes.
But yeah...Us free-loading Americans are the problem.
Estimates range from 40 billion to 100 billion in lost Federal taxes each year, for 30 years.....And yet these Global companies that pay no Federal taxes, receive billions in government contracts, pay no taxes to support our troops, military system, or Embassies, and expect free services to deal with foreign governments..even intelligence briefings..
ok, and the mortgage interest deduction costs 100 billion a year. and thats only one of the deductions taxpayers get.
what you dont understand is companies dont pay taxes. consumers do.
That's why democracy always fails in a down economy. It's too costly to spread economic benefits and make everyone happy when things are not going well, and opportunists in democracy will always make bad choices such as austerity that kills democracy all together. This has happened before and will happen again: remember Hitler was voted into power during Germany's last austerity drive in the Great Depression, and this time the world will soon adopt the benefit of Chinese Model wholesale by removing people power of the vote and stimulate the economy through WWIII.
THE RICH ARE GLOBAL ,NOT AMERICANS ANYMORE. THEY DON'T GIVE A F...ABOUT AMERICA. THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT THE BOTTON LINE. FOR THOSE POOR AND MIIDLE CLASS REPUBLICANS, YOU ARE SHOOTING YOURSELVES WHEN YOU VOTE FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. RICH REPUBLICANS ONLY CARE A BOUT OTHER RICH REPUBLICANS, NOT YOU.
yes exactly like the democrats.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Get a job and make money so we can tax your ass and support you poor, uneducated whiners.
THE GREEKS ARE FIGHTING EXPLOITATION BY THE GLOBAL RICH. AMERICANS SHOULD DO THE SAME. 2% OF THE TOTAL WORLD POPULATION OWN 53% OF TOTAL WEALTH.
GO GREEK PEOPLE GO!!!
Peter Schiff educates economists about how Hoover and Roosevelt destroyed the United States economy in the 1920's through 1940's with government intervention against the free market. Schiff peels off the illusion that FDR was a great president. He contributed to the Great Depression along with the Federal Reserve: http://caps.fool.com/Blogs/peter-schiff-dont-stimulate/126536
Very simple solution :NO VOTING RIGHTS FOR PEOPLE WHO RECEIVE BENEFITS FOR LONGER THAN A COUPLE OF YEARS.
EXCLUDING ANY ELDER OF TERMINALLY SICK RELATED BENIFITS OF COURSE.
Dear Friend krm007:
Just responding to your assertion on the Muslim contributions to science which Mr. Zakaria also talks about quite frequently.
Read all about Muslim contributions to science in this article written by a well known Pakistani columnist writing in Pakistan's #1 newspaper Dawn.
http://blog.dawn.com/2010/11/25/the-science-of-farce/
Nadeem Pareecha on Pakistani and Saudi efforts to claim all scientific achievements for Muslims, and their efforts to mislead the world into believing that.
Here are some excerpts:
“Impressed by the fantastical claims made by a French Christian doctor, very few Muslims were bothered by the fact that he was on the payroll of the Saudi monarchy, a regime trying to ward off the threat it had faced from various left-leaning nationalist movements in the Muslim world, and the growing influence of western secularism and Soviet communism among the Muslims.
The idea was, that if politics could be ‘Islamised’ (Mauddudi, Qutab, Khomeini), then so could science and (later), economics (banking). Grudgingly recognizing the economic and political advances made by the Jews after World War-II through education, the Arab world, defeated by Israel in 1967 and 1973, tried to come up with their own notion of advancement.
But as mentioned before, THIS ADVANCEMENT WAS NOT REALLY ABOUT PRODUCING LARGE NUMBERS OF HIGHLY EDUCATED MUSLIMS BUT RATHER, A POPULACE FED ON EMPTY, FEEL-GOOD ‘SCIENTIFIC’ CLAPTRAP PRODUCED BY OVERPAID GROUPS OF CRACKPOTS CALLING THEMSELVES SCIENTISTS AND ECONOMISTS. And anyway, the new post-Bucaille Muslim mindset had already begun labeling the ‘secular sciences’ as ‘invented by Jews to subjugate the Muslims.’
Pakistan’s military dictator, General Ziaul Haq, heavily influenced and financed by the Saudis, would be the man to green light a seminar of Muslim ‘scientists’ who met in Islamabad in 1986 to unveil the wonders of Islamic science where so-called learned men actually set about discussing things like how to generate energy and electricity from jinns, or how to calculate the speed of heaven, etc.
Such was the nonsense MUSLIM GOVERNMENTS IN THE 1980S WERE ‘INVESTING’ THEIR MONEY AND EFFORTS IN WHEN A MAJORITY OF MUSLIM COUNTRIES WERE CONTINUING TO STRUGGLE TO UP THEIR LITERACY RATES.
THIS PRACTICE SANCTIFIED MYOPIA AND AN UNSCIENTIFIC BENT OF MIND IN THE MUSLIM WORLD.
Is democracy part of Europe's economic problems? Yes, it's part of it. People are going to vote for people who promise to give them handouts. Of course, a 35 hour work week, 50+ vacation and holidays per year, the inability of firing incompetent workers, heath care plan mostly payed by the state, and expensive pension plans don't help either.
It takes fewer people to produce the same amount of goods now due to productivity gains. You would prefer that the excess labor just be shot?
basically, yes.
"Now, having been in Europe briefly earlier this week..." That makes you an expert on European fiscal policy! I walked by the fish store this morning and I am starting to feel I know a lot about deep sea aquatic organisms.
The good news is that Mr. Zakaria nailed it right on the head – "later" never comes because it never did.
Those of us who know Europe in depth and have watched European politics for over 40 years recognize that some European countries have simply run out their credit lines and will never recover without a serious change in direction. It is just really unfortunate that they did not recognize this during good times. Now they are broke, their economies are in ruins, and nobody will lend them any more money.
The bad news is that 9 times out of 10 Mr. Zakaria preaches the Democrat party line and gets it all wrong in the process.
What happens in Europe happens here within a year. We will see high inflation this summer, gas at $4 is just a harbinger of what is ahead. We need a political system with term limits so career politicians don't become multi-millionaires off of the public.
That and stopping stupid people from voting.
we need a political system that gets rid of people who stand in the way of real progress, such as the tea party and crazy conservatives.....from what i've seen they have been the biggest obstacle towards any recovery, our credit rating got reduced why? because our politicians couldn't agree on anything for a whole year, and our recovery has been slow why? because our politicians, the people we elect to REPRESENT US, have done nothing but argue and bicker about like a bunch of children fighting over a swing
and why are these obstructionists in office??? because we have a ton of idiots living in the heartland
a vote for the tea party is a vote for idiocracy.....you can be a republican or a conservative even, and still find ways to work with those on the other side of the aisle.....these people just don't get it
so whats the difference between what republican leaders are talking about doing here compared to the whole austerity thing going on in europe? it doesn't seem much different, i agree.....you can't cut spending in a recession you must give in order to recieve, that means spending less on things that aren't AS important and spending more on people which are what actually run the economy, banks don't run the economy, detroit auto makers don't run the economy, the rich don't run the economy, everyday people that are buying stuff and paying taxes on it....that's what runs the economy
the republicans seem very opposed to investing in americans.....when in fact, they should feel opposite about that.....americans and only americans will pull america out of its recession......not the rich and not the politicians......lower taxes, increase spending on social programs to get people to spend more and we'll be back on our feet in no time.......however if you wanna cut all spending such as is being done in europe, you're gonna end up with more problems
Fahreed
People in the US are also concerned that if you give more money to our Federal government and the entrenched public employee unions, things will end up worse And, contrary to Krugman's opinion, things will not improve when the economy gets better. Raising tax revenues again, isn't the answer. You mentioned Germany may have cause to not let countries that have been foolish to continue to spend. Many in the US believe the same thing about our government
EU or France or America economy needs to be recovered in logical & economic ways. Budget should be controlled, benefits & pensions rationalized, investments in development to be increased by borrowing or extra taxing. Spending cuts should be avoided only rationalization & control of waste stopped with extra audit with Spending reduced in sectors with long term dividends but short term investments & projects must continue or started to boost economy & avoid unpleasant public reaction. If not done election results of EU countries like France shall be adversely affected with repercussions on US Presidential election too with GOP so much dedicated to cut benefits & spending on healthcare. It is not a game of trial & error at national level. Political training has no value in national management. It is vision & experience with strong logical reasoning for correct mass solutions that is needed. Failure of democracy in EU with deficit & instable economy will leave no country unaffected beside cutting faith & trust in democratic principles of national management. Political stubbornness is another major shortcoming in political behavior of leadership. At national level more reasoning & rational conduct of political parties is required.
so fareed what are you saying sharia law is better than democracy?...
Democracy is not the problem in Europe, the problem in Europe it the way that the socialized style of government. When governments stop handing out what is not theirs to handout, then and only then will Europe survive, and if America continues in the same path, then we too shall allow the fall of this country thanks to the weak that wish to do nothing but collect what is not theirs to have.
Just pointing out that even if the New Deal did not get us out of the depression, Keynesian economics still did. The government borrowed money to make war supplies, if we just flew them into the Atlantic our economy would still of recovered the same. WWII was just the New Deal on steroids.
Is corporate capitalism part of America's economic problems?
"Ask not what your country can do for you; Ask what you can do for your country" One of my favorite quotes maybe we should start living by it again
Democracy isn't the economic system, Capitalism is. Capitalism is the problem.
Europe no longer has Capitalism, and soon it won't have Democracy either. Europe has pathetic debt-financed welfare states and a weak, stupid incompetent public that will sell itself for the peace of sharia.
Democracy is not the problem. Social Programs that give people money for nothing are the issue. You see, when it comes time to vote, people will vote for candidates with belief similar to theirs. When programs exist that give that person money from the government for nothing, be it socilized medicine, rent assistance, pension ... that voter likely has beliefs that those programs should continue with no change as they benefit from them. Thus once the programs are in place, political candidates cannot promise to reduce the programs in size or scope as that could impact that voter so they lose that vote. It is therefore a self defeating cylce of destruction. Government program goes in place, people become dependent on program, politicians avoid changing that program to avoid angering dependent voters, program continues to grow making more people dependent, and the cycle goes on so year after year it gets harder to slow or stop the programs growth. And worse, in the early stages, some politicians, seeking power, will promise to increase the scope of the program. More fee money, more aid for "X", to appeal to voters to vote for them.
If you want the best example of how Government programs corrupt the democratic process, you need only look at the Postal service. Senators afraid to lose votes from union memebers have stopped the post office from making changes, instead shuffling off the requests to committees and long drawn out reviews. So even as the service wastes Billions and loses over $25 Million per day, they can't fire the no longer needed workers or cut costs, as the service keeps people employed and no politician wants to lose votes. Hence with bipartisan support, it keeps all the employees and all the offices open.
Ken; You said "Democracy is not the problem" Then went on to explain that democracy IS the problem.
There is no problem in Germany due to social programs, we see a extremely low crime rate and nobody begging for medical care. In USA extremely high crime rate is only due to bad social system.
Ignorance is bliss I guess. To GOP supporters we are now revising history to say that public spending did not end the great depression, but WWII did.
Do you not realize WWII was primarily public spending? Giant world wide public spending....which companies are modern day GOP backers claiming won WWII now.?
The spending in WW2 did not end the depression. What ended the depression and made USA a world power was the fact that every world power except the USA had their industrial complex destroyed. We were the only power left standing. Our economy would have collapsed after WW2 except the world needed us to help rebuild them.
So many experts on everything post here. Every person is positive they are right about everything and everybody else is wrong about everything.
FDR's policies saved us.
FDR's policies didn't save us.
There is no sure fireway to prove any of these economic claims so history is different depending on who you talk to.
Politics as usual.
Bring on the Austrian economics! Krugman and the Keynsian way of thinking is destroying the world!
Fareed Zakaria is a Muslim dog living in the united states and talks about European matters ? funny sht
return where ever you come from in the middle east, back to your cave.
Farid learned this thing from US dogs, because they also talk about Asian matters.
Is democracy economics problem or is economics democracies problem?
There is the best solution to a problem. Then there is the economic solution to the problem. And they never seem to be the same..
1st rule of economics.. make the easiest way of doing anything, the most expensive...
So therefore the whole world is trying to do everything the hard way to save money..
It is not smart or efficient. The only thing going for it is its cheap.
I’m fed up with “charging into battle” at work with tools provided by the lowest bidder....
Why follow the “market” when the “market” is absurd...
Keynsian economics is like socialism. It looks good in theory but fails miserably in the real world. Keynsian economics big problem is the government. They can't control themselves. In bad times they are suppose to spend and in good times they are suppose to save..in reality they just spend and spend and spend.
Read De Tocqueville:
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”
Also interesting as it relates to Obama and Liberals at this moment (from De Toqueville):
“Americans are so enamored of equality, they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.”
Tomorrow's GPS will focus on Fareed's belief that water is maybe wet.
The problem here is that in order to lead a politician must have an above average IQ but in order to be electable the same politician must pander to the average IQ masses. A real catch 22.
Neo-liberalism is the problem, not democracy.
One leading Chinese economist, Ni Yining from Peking University, recently examined why Keynesianism has failed to work anymore. He came up with three explanations. First, in the past there were economic cycles, but no political ones. An economic cycle refers to the ups and downs of economic development. Political cycle refers to the electoral cycle. In order to get elected, politicians compete with one another to offer more benefits. After a while, budget deficit becomes unwieldy. Second, welfare program are inelastic. Once a benefit is offered, it is hard to take it away. When the UK planned to take away one cup of milk for each child each day, people went berserk, although the amount of money involved was small. Finally, in the past people, sovereign debts seem to be safe, if not profitable, unless a country ceases to exist. But right now people realize that the government cannot borrow if it has a large debt, since people will be reluctant to lend to the government.
"Experimental Democracy" has failed in India. An experiment that was being shoved down India's throat by western countries too eager to propagate their own values on a country that was trying to decolonize itself while trying to shed the communist skin of being a Soviet ally. India was thus trapped. What has become evident now is that this "Experimental Democracy" has marginalized the country. The marginalized groups of the country – Dalits and ‘backward’ castes/classes, indigenous ‘tribal’ people and religious minorities have been disenfranchised. "The belief that corruption is the important issue in the country is shared only by the minority living in urban areas and towns who have been beneficiaries of economic liberalization policies mandated by western countries. The most important challenges of Indian society remain as follows: justice, social and economic equality and equal access to certain standards of life for all Indians. “While India seems too eager to please its western masters and put on a progressive and softer face for CNN for public consumption, people see through it. The consequences of this "Band – Aid" approach will be brutal for India geo-politically when it realizes that the GDP statistics that it has been relying to gage its progress has not amounted to much in the long run.
Nationalize the banks to remove the profit motive for lending, raise taxes heavily on the uber-rich, invest in sweeping infrastructure rebuild and environmental clean-up – problem solved. Of course those such as Fareed who are part of the economic and media elite want to maintain a system of rulers and ruled; lords and serfs, etc. It's not the "type" of market economics that requires change, but the economic system itself. For something written by a self-appointed intellectual, Fareed's article is exceptionally superficial in its analysis.
Bingo.
no, capitalism is the problem
The canary in the coal mine has died.
Not the Democracy. Democracy is a made up concept which does not have any particular consequence for anything.
It is the Liberalism which is a "part of Europe's economic problems". It is not a coincidence.
"Democracy is the downfall of the Republic"-Plato
Appearing from some of the comments posted anti capitalism has become so cult like that folks are buying into the idea even though nothing on earth has ever created more prosperity or liberty. I assume many of these anti capitalists aren't just plain STUPID. Whether you call it socialism, communism or central control, every time it's tried, it's failed. So what motivates these folks to want to pass up the most successful economic idea in history for the worst?
You left out half the truth. Nothing on earth has ever created more prosperity or liberty for a very few while creating more misery and loss of liberty for the rest. Half-truths are the worst kind of lies.
It sounds like there is one thing that ends economic problems. Employment. WW II put everyone back to work. We need to cut CEOs salaries and shareholder profit and push companies to hire people and pay them more. If the Middle Class is large and has money, they will buy and the economy will boom. It is simple, low wages, outsourcing, higher pay for executives is not working.
why shouldn't the financiers get all the money? they've figured out the way to the top, why should they not be rewarded? survival of the fittest!
We need to put all socialists into brothels. They can give back to the community until their sacrifice has turned a profit.
The problem we have with democracy the way it is functioning now is that the only motivation almost all politicians have to be re-elected. The vision of the founding fathers of the U.S. REPUBLIC was that the elected officials would come to agreement on what was the best way to run the country. Now it is a big political game to get as many of your team re-elected as possible. Term limits may be the best solution and make the presidency one term only.
And by the way, any post I read that starts saying anthing about the 1% or 99%, I stop reading. The 99% keep re-electing the politicians that give the cushy tax brakes to the 1% so the 99% need to get a clue.
There's a good chance you have a job working for someone who is in the "99%" Or.....did you already "stick it the man" and quit to go on the road with your "Occupy" band of qypsies?
This guy, like most American politicians, seems to believe that wealth is the result of government policies. It is not. Read Adam Smith. The wealth of a nation is based on its natural resources and manufacturing. Ours resources are in short supply and dwindling. Our manufacturing is largely gone. Since natural resources are dwindling globally future economic growth is simply not in the picture. The countries that are doing the best right now are the ones that recognized this decades ago and developed steady-state, sustainable economies. Denmark is a good example. Until Americans wake up and realize the the government can only determine how wealth is distributed we will keep electing people who will lead us into bankruptcy.
bob, I agree with you regarding governments don't create wealth, however they can have effects on the amount of wealth and business can generate. tI think the larger problems we have with resources are government created. rules/regulations prevent the best use of resources, and gov taxes and policies make the most expensive resouce: works, too expensive so businesses take their labor intensive jobs to cheaper labor markets.
We need to make it harder, not easier, to vote. One option would be literacy tests, another to move the voting stations a distance, say 50 miles, from their precincts. This would work to assure that voters were people who took the process seriously. Next would be to work to bring back a sense of pride/shame and social judgement. If a neighbor was unnecessarily on the dole, they and their families should be socially ridiculed. This would be best accomplished by making socail judgement and family pride part of our culture again.
Indeed the end of this era is nigh. The question is what comes after it.
When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. – Ben Franklin
"politicians have gotten elected over the last four decades in the West by promising voters more benefits, more pensions and more health care."
The problem is poor and stupid people breed, so the need grows exponentially. We have in fact created generations whose sole talents are procreating and doing so to maximize each welfare benefit. We then warehouse them in public housing, and the cycle repeats. It is unsustainable.
Sturdy shoes and a sharp knife. And some string. String is always useful. Learn to grow your own food and save the seeds. Build relationships with your neighbors. Have a plan. You'll be fine.
IIt seems to me that the global financial system is a ponzi scheme. Its just that we all can see the growing debt as we move through. In bernies scheme all people saw were their statements cranked out by his trusty AS/400. Ponzi schemers always live in fear that everyone will trun up, (or a majority will), that will want to cash in, thus exposing the scheme. But, in this global Ponzi scheme there NEVER will be a time when the scheme will get rushed by everyone wanting to pull out their money.. Therefore, we can just keep kicking the can down the road forever. See the thing is, is that a lot of people say that we must pay the piper SOMEDAY. But, who is the piper???? And the beautiful thing that will make this can kicking a reality is that all thst has to happen is that the RICH still 'think' they are RICH! Its phsycholoigcal. The BEST part about being a millionaire is NOT the cash. Its the fact that most OTHER people ARE NOT milllionaires. Just that thought can sustain and coddle a millionaire for YEARS. I really do NOT see any problem with burgeoning debt. WHo cares its all funny money anyway and will NEVER be RECONCILED as In how a bank reconciles its daily deposits.
Fareed is right on. The large percentage of moochers is ruining democratic countries.
We need to get back to the fiscal responsibility of about 12 years ago. End the Bush-era tax cuts and end Obamacare.
Cut back on the military to a reasonable level and get the federal government out of areas that are better left to states (welfare, education) who are more responsible with money.
i think people should read about technocracy.
If the answer to question posed in this article is yes and the U.S. is in exactly the same situation are you, Mr. Fareed, suggesting that the U.S. go to a dictator system or a a communist system such as China. If you are the question is no to both the U.S. and Europe. Just in case some nut case says it, if Obama was a dictator there wouldn't be a Republican Senator or Representive remaining alive.
regardless of spending, the US will always be in debt, as long as the money is loaned to us by the Fed.
As far as the shrieks of "WW2 ended the depression", Im pretty sure the biggest war machine in recorded history counts as "government spending".
germany vs. the rest of europe. only 10-25% (depending on the region) of the germans are wiling tol volunteer, however, to be the cannon fodder for the top 1%, come WWIII.
"more or less benefits" are not the only choices. "just, sustainable, and wholy different way of life" is the real alternative to the status quo!
Based on the premise that the rich get richer, we should be in good shape vs. the rest of the world. We still have the most resilient and diversified economy in the world. We will be fine, at least until your grandchildren are of age... why worry now. It seems straight forward to me. I have never heard of someone going broke that spent too little, but the government cant seem to grasp that one... oh well, I guess my grandkids can pay for it.
Contrary to conservative talking points, it absolutely IS possible to go broke from spending too little. What if you spend so little that you refuse to send your kids to college, and their lifetime earnings are drastically reduced? What if you spend so little that you refuse to go to the doctor for preventive care visits, and don't catch that tumor in time? What if you spend so little that you don't get that leaky roof fixed, and your house suffers extensive water damage? Being dogmaticaly obsessed with spending as little as possible is a perfect recipe for long-term financial ruin.
The problem is that candidates of all kinds have use democracy sweetened to hide the demagoguery of their stupid promises. Yet, no body questions their words as they want to get much for nothing. It looks like they forgot that "when something sounds too good..." I understand now why people like Hitler can convince a whole country that their terrible lie is the purest truth..The entire country wants to believe because it just sounds fantastic, and then, all hell breaks loose
The preference for populist policy by the Europeans will be the death of EU, awhich will also cause a prolong recession in Europe.
Where there is NO progress in people's lives, and there is absence of accountability by revolving EU state Governments , if these conditions exists – democracy is dead.
Fareeed, they have been saying that they are using the crisis to pressurise, southern say, european countries into cleaning up their fiscal houses for some mounths now and there are some caotic bits of Spainish sending that have to do with "autonommias" with the government of the different provinces that like autonomy and so on, so that might not be too bad a thing, the spending and taxing situation is hardly more caotic here than it is in America though but when they attack hand outs then the picture is differents.
In the Spainish crisis it was not the government who had overspent, it was the housing sector the constructores and the banks too it later seems. Mind you the government should have been controling the construction sector and corruption and such more.
They fed you lies when you came to Europe, you traveled and met a magician who kept you in a cave and drugged you and set you on your way with some strange idea in your head. Thatcher got into power thirty odd years ago and that was the begining of deregulation of financial markets, of flexibilising of labour markets and clapping down on trade unions and they told you hta tthirty years ago socialism was picking up speed when really tha twas when it bega nto be eroded. The arguements that backed up the actions of Thatcher must have begun before but the actions that reversed the trend that had been so going the socialist way, at least in England, in Spain franco was in power till just before Thatcher came to power, really began to get up steam with Thatcher and have lead us to where we are today in europe and to where the Republicans are in north America and if they convert you too to republican beliefs, well they have just gone a whole big step furtherdown that road.
They have not spent thirty years deepening their social programs but preparing the way for and putting into place more rightest programs These last thirty seven years have been ones in which the right and the ideas of the right have been on the increase, Thatcher came into power after such a stretch of socilist policies that pèople did not mind a reverse to socialism much but now it begins to look as if we are on the fast track back to medieval times and I at any rate begin to be scared, it is time to be worried about how conservative policites have undermined all the gains that socilist on brought in, not least of which is that light socialism seemed to greatly improve the internal economies of the countries who adopted the wellafer state. I suppose England had been rich before, it had had a empire, but that richness certainly did not make many english people rich, there was a lot of poverty in England, I remember how poor the people in villages were, many of them at any rate, it was only socialism that made us a country with rich people in it but also were the poor were not too poor.
In spain recently the right, in control of town halls and such secondary government situtions, while the left were in power, the right has been eating away at the public education system and at the hospital one and helping cronnies with private education systems and private hospitals. They say what does that matter people will get educated at private schools with grants for public students, I know Spainish catholics, their idea of education for the poor is not serious and they disaprove of science and literature for everyone, the poors education will go down a lot if they are educated at religious schools part payed for by the government.
This last crisis has occured in Europe for the same reason it occured in America, after mileniums of traditional ways of lending money, the financiers thought of new ways of funding loans and making immediate money out of them, instead of waiting for slower returns, that of turning the legal promise of the debtor to pay interest on the loans and to pay back the principle, into something they could sell on on the open market, into somthing you could sell shares of called bonds and in so doing they divorced the loaning, in part, from the risk that the loaner took on on lending money, so that those loaning no longer cared about how credit worthy the debtors were and not only did they stop having a pressing reason to care about the debtors credit worthyness but they also had a pressing reason to get more people into debt, that being that they were making lots of money selling on their IOUs on the open market.
It is years of the opposite of socialism in creamy times of finding arguements to protect the rich and to reduce the saftey net for the poor that preceeded this crisis.
All my adult life they have reduced the power of the unions and thought up a lot of agrguements, such as the ones they probably fed you, to unwind all that was wound up during my childhood, I am fifty seven years old. In my childhood England empoverished by the war was however slowly incrementing the social programs all the time and the result was a slow increase in wealth, the south of Europe also got wealthy when it incremented it social programs, it had been miserably poor, the counter intuitative fact is that social help programs increase the wealth of nations it is counter intuitative but it is what all countries who tried it experimented, maybe because social programs allowed the poor to have more money and more of them started businesses and more businesses greatly increased our countries efficiency. How many businesses succeed? If you have more people starting them that means you are more likely to have more successful businesses and if you let people tell you otherwise we are set to go back to Dickenses times. Just go and talk to the real the nordic countries, with really good social security nets instead of talking to Angel Merkel who seems to be soft in the head, it is not just that she does not recognise how rich europe got since it introduced soicial programs, every one owning a car makes for a country that has a lot more cars in it, makes for a richer country than a country with a few fat cats owning fifty cars does, she is also half witted because Germany was making money because it sold stuff to the Europe it also helped and now it is no longer helping Europe it has lost much of its market and its own market is going down the plug hole. The right is on a crash course to victorian times and it is their propoganda machine that is taking us there.
In America you know that democratic governments are better at economy than the right and yet who can shatter that archtype of the fat cat in suits being the one who really understands money, so much so that they are likely to vote in fat cats in a economic crisis in spite of the fact that in Bushes time, etc., the economy went to pot. No facts about those who actually manage money best are going to change people perception of who they imagine does. rose macaskie madrid.
Everyone needs to read and share this article: http://www.rightsidenews.com/2012051016200/life-and-science/culture-wars/chinese-cities-coming-to-america.html
This is an outrage.
I'm from Europe living in the US.
The problem in Europe is simple. They want the best of both worlds. They want the best socialistic programs and they also want what a capitalistic economic (and social system) have to offer. On top of that Europeans want to work as little as possible. Germany is rising again, and the other countries just want to have fun. I don't think the EU can survive..Thanks
It is a LACK of democracy that is causing the problem; specifically the fact that Greece belongs to the Euro Zone and therefore lacks the authority to set its own monetary policy. They can't weaken their currency or strengthem it. They can't increase interest rates or decrease them, They have no way to strengthen exports like the US could. By surrendering its sovereign currency, Greece put itself at the mercy of a foreign country (mostly Germany) who is able to over-rule the will of the Greek people. The fact that you didn't even touch on this fact makes this one of the worst written articles ever to be posted on CNN; and that says a lot.
You aren't serious....are you? Democracy the problem.....democracy isn't the problem its politicians that pander rather than lead and an electorate that is increasingly looking for handouts rather than rational solutions. Rather its the nature of man that is the problem.
You've discoverd the root of the problem . Only 300 or so years after Ben Franklin did. Congradulations!
Democracy has long been established n France and the UK. It i s not tthe problem – socialism, unions and greed is.
They need to move a bit closer to the Anglo Saxon model. That will take care of 20% unemploymnet. The Canadian model of anglo saxon capitalism might work well there.
so, what makes you think europe is full of democracy anyway? most of europe is socialist or commu-socialist so of course their spending is out of control due to social programs.. democracy doesn't have anything to do with it.
Just waht we need. An elistist – born in Asia – questioning Democracy.
India is the biggest democracy in the world and is the only country with complete freedom of speech.
"Democracy ends when the Public realizes it can vote benefices for itself from the Public Treasury"
====================================================================================
It ain't the government – it's the People. Europe, and soon the US, has constructed vast welfare states where people sell their votes for "free" goodies. Why would any People end that practice unless there is a melt down, anarchy, and then a new government? Expecting people to become productive after a lifetime of indolence is sheer madness.
Both India and China started around 1948 with the current ruling systems. The results can be compared by looking at the garbage on the streets of China and India.No big science is necessary to compare the results of democracy and dictatorship.Democracy only works when there are good dictators behind it, who first establish basic system.
Europe´s leaders had absolutely no idea, how to fix ireland, portugal, spain, italy greece. Germany´s leader had the ideas ( but wrong ideas). So, all the decisions were made of Germans. They know exactly, that cuttings in recessions are not successful, that´s for sure. But the 1.leader is chancellor Merkel, a lady who grew up in the part of Germany where the gov was communists. After 1989, it seems like that democracy is the winner in east and west Europe. But if you take a closer look, you see Merkel, a Stasi Co worker, who is chancellor now, leading her party to the left, than leading her country ( Germany) to the left. She made decisions for Greece, Portugal etc all in the same direction: Cuttings ,Cuttings, Cuttings. Until f.example Greece economy was completely death. People on the streets, suicides in Athens from workers, who had no income. The goal of this Lady: Leading to the completely breakdown of the whole econonmy in Europe and after the fully bailout, nobody has nothing and that´s the perfect beginning for the new central communism in Europe under Germans leadership. The " EUDSSR" ( former UDSSR) I am a native German 55 years old.
In the old days when you had a country like Greece or Italy that was pretty much useless a bigger country came in and conquered. Well today thats seen as evil. So the next best thing is to take them under your wing and try to make them emmulate how you run your country. That is what Germany is trying to do with these countries and the EU as a whole. If this is not the way to go what else are you supposed to do with inferior societies that are not longer sustanible on thier own?
Sorry Nate, but the way you try to see it is harmful, because not to see the real background was the biggest mistake in the past. Most of the Germans and also the surrounding European nations( around Germany) were not able to see this real background. The result will be: no freedom in Europe the next 30 years. As Hitler got the power in 1933, a lot of politicians were happy ( around the world) because they hoped, that " law and order" would come into the worried Germany. The actual situation is absolutely comparable to 1933. It was the end of freedom, the end of democracy and the begin of the 2.WW. Ask the Italien- France-Greece people of the street, how they think about Germans. You will not believe how far the ( hate) process is. Wait and see the next time and you will remember my words.
So, the "markets" won't lend? That's what laws are fo: enact laws that confiscate the wealth if they don't lend voluntarily. Why, what will the bankers and other capitalists do, go live in China? Legislate and confiscate.
Democracy, in the US, is not the problem. Our broken political party system is to blame. We need to ban both the GOP and the Democrat parties. Allow our citizens to elect "Patriots" instead of "Partisans". Our two parties have grown much too powerful which allows them to ignore the real "will of the people". How many scandals have we suffered in the past 20 years? Sure, "legislation" has been passed to correct some of the causes. But wait, laws passed does not mean laws put into force! Too many "legislated" corrections have never been implemented. So the crimes of the "rich" against the "middle class" continue to go on. (ie: the Facebook IPO, foreclosures, corrupt banking practices, oil speculation and more). Congress has passed legislation to correct many of these problems, yet most are just sitting there not being implemented. Simply passing legislation no longer works, it is just a means for politicians to brag about their work and get re-elected.
So when decent people oppose the socialist unions, it's called a "democracy problem". And we all know how socialists handle democracy problems.
Are paying attention, Amerika?
Amen!!!!
EVERYONE has a democracy problem. Remember the 2000 US election? Also, India is the world's biggest democracy and look at their problems.
Democracy problem. – That's main problem of German Pirate Party after elected in 4 states!
We prefer a grass-roots democracy and most members realizing you cannot vote for conditionless basic income, ticket free public transportation system, free university education etc – more, more, more – and ignore total budget balance must be in order and decision could be re-evaluated later.
So our long term goal and key is to display price and effects over large periods as well as who get the bills of any decision for the voters to react hopefully reasonable by IT. – Maybe greatest challage of democracy of all time.
I guess the headline is contextual. And all I see are the same old two approaches to the PROBLEM rehashed...again. FDR made it worse, Hitler made it better, "unfettered" Capitalism is the answer to everything. If only those stupid human beings would get out of the way. You know you could extrapolate from the answer (unfettered Capitolism) and end up somewhere you don't like also. It could be said that the surpluses of Clinton's time were low hanging fruit. He simply took Reagan's approach to its logical conclusion. He took the last true fetters off the beast of Capitalism (see Glas Steagal) and of course it resulted in short term gains. The beast was loose. It ain't done runnin yet but is getting close collapsing under the weight of its own gorging. Socialism isn't the answer as it doesn't meet the needs of human nature. Unfettered (unfettered being the key concept here) Capitalism isn't either since it is human nature incarnate. Not a pretty site since ultimately humans are very self centered. The answer is in the middle somewhere based upon concepts that incorporate the new revolution equal to the industrial one that is occurring. Of course we could just let it all crash and burn, reboot the system and fix the OS.
Haha its funny how alot of people are putting down FDR you can tell that they been drinking to much of Fox News Kool Aid. Social Security was a great thing, N Many people didnt save for the future before FDR they suffered homeless or had there kids take care of them, when they were senior citizens. If were going to save money we got to first stop letting the rich take advatage of this country they can be taxed a little more no excuses there, then we got to decrease the militaryin the world by half and not get in to stupid wars we cant afford to be the world police anymore. Then we got to stop all the wastful so much money on the war on drugs. Treat drug abuse as a sickness never as a crime. For recreation use hand out a certain amount of drugs each week by voucher system. Stop allowing hospitals from ripping off people......
"Socialism was great...." The key word here is "was" Where is it now? Bankrupt!!!!!!!! How interesting you left out the "inconvenient truth" to quote one of your heroes.........
Correction: "Social Security was great". Socialism is a natural connection to make there...
Make euthanasia legal in all states not just 3. Its not just wastful money when a person dont want to suffer from a terminla illness no more in the hospital its also a way to save money. We also got to fix unemplyment the cost of what some one gets on unemplyment should be gradully decreased after 6 months and not be allowed after 2 years max. Also just cuase a person has more than 1 kid doesnt mean they should not basically be taxed by getting all there money back come income tax time. I could go oon but ill wait for opinions if I get any back..
It is probably correct that Germans are correct to fear that some of the countries in Europe cannot be trusted to use a German-financed deficit spending program to actually reform (rather than leaving Germany and some other countries stuck with the bill for "euro bonds"). The issue, however, is not democracy. The issue is how the euro works in the present crisis. It may be that one of the characteristics of the euro zone is that its members removed inflationary monetary policy from their political economic toolkit when they joined the euro. If that is the case, then the present troubles are partly about finding an alternative to inflationary monetary policy for countries that had relied on it extensively in past recessions.
Europeans need to invest in some good surfboards... cause the big democratic ocean GOT SOME BIG a---sss waves. Cant have one without the other. "na mean"
The 2 main problems in Europe are obvious: social engineering has destroyed their entrepreneurial spirit + gas prices are so outrageously high people can't get around.
ken, you're a moron.
FDR was a dictator. The ONLY difference between FDR's regime and those of Mussolini and Hitler was that FDR didn't put anyone into concentration camps (well, at least he didn't start exterminating them once they were there). FDR's policies were textbook fascist policies created by advisers who were open admirers of Mussolini.
Interesting, please provide your source.
All Europe needs is for government to stop all the social spending and tell people they have to fend for themselves. It would be rough for a year or two, but after that they would be the healthiest their economy has been in centuries.
my roomate's ex-wife makes $81 an hour on the internet. She has been laid off for 8 months but last month her pay check was $16950 just working on the internet for a few hours. Read more on this site http://xurl.es/imprtant
Democracy is a problem if those in power want to remain in power and/or the people are easily duped into believing a partial truth so they do something they would regret.
Of course the current crisis points to a problem in democracy, the question is what to do about it. Democracy only survives so long as the people restrain themselves and that depends on educated voters. The USA started out with limited suffrage and expanded it as educated voters demanded it. Now we have universal suffrage despite the fact we are becoming more ignorant and we have no cultural core encouraging restraint (this used to be a role played by religion). The solution is clear suffrage must be limited not universal. Limiting it to only those who pay some nominal level of taxes would likely fix lots of democratic problems but the problem is starting from where we are (universal suffrage) this is next to impossible to implement.
You are describing complete inertia, Fareed. Two opposing outlooks that everyone kind of agrees with but no one really wants to just choose an option and try to move forward. These arguments, austerity v. stimulus, are always framed around the opening complaint regarding deficits. Apparently, there are a whole bunch of people out there sitting on piles and piles of money that are complaining about being OWED money. Tragic. There are also some people that are holding on to the idea that their pensions just HAVE to keep growing no matter what. That's not helpful. Then there is the rest of the world that is being completely ignored and it's descending into chaos. "The Markets" need to stop acting like they ARE the government.
Maybe Europe needs another war.
GERMANY ALMOST DESTROYED EUROPE TWICE; BUT NOW THEY ARE SAVING EUROPE!
More stupid, ignorant pontificating by Fareed. Hey Fareed, why don't you take a hike and move to Cuba if Socialism is so wonderful? It's working just great there...right? There is no democracy there! What would you blame everything on there? In fact, take a whole bunch of like minded people with you, renounce your American citizenship and embrace everything anti-democratic that Socialism stands for. You will have your Utopia of which you dream. Good luck with that. This makes me feel like my head is going to explode. You are just another mindless minion of liberal-socialist machine. Socialist or Socialist leaning economies are depressed because of over regulation which results in over taxing and over spending to support the behemoth governments they create. You cannot bleed the people that spend money and create jobs dry by overtaxing and kill businesses and jobs with regulation funded by overspending with that tax revenue and grow an economy. Simple....so simple that you don't get it evidently. Stupid, Stupid, stupid!!!!!!!!! It's unbelievable that someone as intelligent and accomplished as you would be so foolish. I see many others on here in the same boat. It defies logic....
Yes many politicians have been elected promising all kinds of things, but you left something out......the fact that they never deliver what they promise. Our President is a prime example. One unfulfilled promise and failed policy after another. You guys can continue to repeat the same lies until your blue in the face, but that doesn't make it true any way you look at it. Of course, I know the strategy....it's one of the oldest in the book.....Say it often enough and people will start to believe it....even those repeating the lies.
Fareed is really missing the point regarding Europe. The main issue there is a currency crisis – the Euro. Although it would be painful and messy, returning to old currencies is the only way back to having sound(er) economic standing, though maybe a handful of strong economies could remain with the Euro. Greece, Portugal, Italy, and Spain would grow economically with increased exports due to cheaper goods and services to overseas customers. The problem of deficits and non-stop spending is largely a result of poor monetary policy – by monetizing instead of liquidating debt, and having no political unity between countries that have implemented monetary unity. Their overblown public sectors and high tax rates also take away from private sector growth and success, which is one reason why our unemployment rate is lower than theirs. They can implement all the austerity measures they want, or "experts" like Klugman can keep touting Keynesianism as the cure, when in fact the only inevitable and viable solution is (as always) not even considered. Perpetually low interest rates and monetary expansion by way of their central bank is at the core of Europe's slow demise. I could go on about currency issues domestically as well, but enough already...
Good afternoon. Everyone is graciously invited to visit my web site... thestarofkaduri.com
Good evening. Everyone is graciously invited to visit – thestarofkaduri.com
Hello everyone. You are graciously invited to visit my web site... thestarofkaduri.com
thestarofkaduri.com
There is not a problem with democracy in Europe, there is a problem with Freedom!! The difference is that Freedom allows equality but equality will never lead to Freedom. The countries of Europe are ignorant are starting to understand the failure of socialism. The fomrer communist/socailist countries of eastern europe are painfully aware of the total failiure of socialism. If only their western brothers would listen! Therer is not free lunch.
Wow, that's dumb .
If you're living under the delusion that America doesn't share those economic issues and more, you're forgetting where you stand in income disparity and debt per household, which is worse than Greece. The way America's going in terms of governance by inertia due to inflexible ideology, you'll be lucky if there's a nation left in 20 years, let alone be around to lecture others on how lousy their way of life is.
No way.. EUrope has got a democratic problem?? When 63% were against that Lisbon treaty... well.. Brussel decided that we should by just scrapping the EU national song. When they allowed all South European countries in the euro zone (that have huge problems with export), no Dutch were informed or questioned if we ever wanted them in. It's all romantic thus far. Now ALL the South European countries want our money, because they don't export. Not even that. They also want Dutch retire funds. Lets say 875 billion euro, because they can't cover their own with the absurd age of retirement they chose. Dutch should cover those with our pension funds. That unelected van Rompuy found himself a big honeypot . Why? Because with that illegal ESM (article 125 of that illegal Lisbon treaty), our europhiles seemed to handed over all our sovereignty to Brussel. Wait.. we've got elections. I think van Rompuy is a good reason to get out of the EU.. with his "masterplan".
No way.. EUrope has got a democratic problem?? When 63% were against that Lisbon treaty... well.. Brussel decided that we should by just scrapping the EU national song. When they allowed all South European countries in the euro zone (that have huge problems with export), no Dutch were informed or questioned if we ever wanted them in. It's all romantic thus far. Now ALL the South European countries want our money, because they don't export. Not even that. They also want Dutch retire funds. Lets say 875 billion euro, because they can't cover their own with the absurd age of retirement they chose. Dutch should cover those with our pension funds. That unelected van Rompuy found himself a big honeypot . Why? Because with that illegal ESM (article 125 of that illegal Lisbon treaty), our europhiles seemed to handed over all our sovereignty to Brussel. Wait.. we've got elections. I think van Rompuy is a great reason to get out of the EU.. with his "masterplan".
Let's all read a book. Something by Danny Wind.
"... politicians have gotten elected over the last four decades in the West by promising voters more benefits, more pensions and more health care. The question is, can they get elected offering less?"
Try it.
The real cute thing that the CNN author states is right afterwards:
"That's what stops many Europeans from abandoning austerity and embracing another round of stimulus spending."
Obviously the CNN author got no clue that politicians rarely keep promises.
Hence, elected on a "zero work-full pay" platform, there is nothing to stop them to implement whatever they want once in power.
Amazing this guy has a job in this economical debacle.
Democracy is a bold face Nobel lie. Politics is a horse and pony show that the general public fall right into like the latest episode of American idol (worshiping). You gotta love fiat money it's faker then most of the Marxist/Zionist politicians that run your Isis-Ra-El loving country.
Fareed is the son of an Islamic scholar and claims that Islamic extremism is not rooted in Islam (read: "no true Scotsman" fallacy). He is an Islamic apologist and – apparently – a proponent of Sharia law.
Democracy isn't perfect, but it's the best we've got. The alternative Fareed seems to like, theocracy, will only lead to more religious Dark Ages.
Finally a mainstream commentator who is willing to talk about the "Elephant in th eRoom". Of course democracy inevitably drives countries to bankruptcy. Politicians only get money and power when they are elected. Citizens will vote for who gives their state/union/pensioner group etc the most goodies. Governments will then tax the weakest minority to pay for it, and when this cannot raise enough cash you issue government debt. By the time the whole horrible mess comes tumbling down those politicians will be long gone from power and either dead, or sitting on their huge index-linked pensions which they voted for themselves. Every person in this whole sad story is acting reasonably in their own best interest, and why should they not. That is why China will become the world dominant power, not because of their scale, but because they have a leadership system which requires long training and experience before you get near senior political power, and are immune to the short term electoral cycle. They can actually solve long term problems and do not need to buy their re-election every two years. Watch and enjoy!
You are right: in China they do not need to buy their re-election every two years, because:
_in China there is only one party: the Communist Party.
_the long training has always one direction: the Communist Party.
_I went to China and I saw what is about: do not go out of the scheduled paths.
_I saw the popular houses (I'm an architect) and I spoke with real people (in the shadow, obviously.) The apartments are ridiculous cells.
There is no wellness beside the Communist Party, If you are not in you are out.
Dear Dallas, did you study our history? It is made of people who died in the name of FREEDOM, and I'm so grateful to them that I will never admire the Chinese opulence because I know what there is behind and I know its foundations. I'm old enough to know what the cultural revolution did to the Chinese people. Now it is very trendy to say: wow...look at China! Look at China? Nothing changed: it is still the totalirist country that hides the poor people amid social injustice.
Today it is the 4th of July: I'm happy not to be a Chinese, because I'm a free person in a free Democracy.
Democracy is not the direct problem. It is unrestrained capitalism. Capitalism without reasonable and effective regulation is the reason we're in the mess we are in. Wall Street and the major corporations have done as they pleased with severe economic consequences to the rest of us. Tax avoidance, investment in questionable (illegal) financial practices, disregard for their fellow citizens, environmental damage, etc. If we allow Romney and his buddies to get in power, we'll be dragged back to the 1800's were Robber Baron's held power and the 99% suffered accordingly.
As for emulating China, I don't think so.... We fought a revolution to get rid of an absolute government (England) and then fought a Civil War to kept from having it imposed by the Southern elite. Which by the way, is what these Southern politicians and their Tea Party buddies are trying to take us to.....
Fareed Zakaria is a very smart person with a great, deep knowledge, but sometimes he is weird.
Can he give an example of any democratic country in which candidates can get elected offering less?
European countries are the most democratic in the world: people are not brain washed and they can express what they think.
By the way, Chancellor Merkel has to be careful, because she is not living a favorable political moment.
Furthermore I think that democracy cannot be confused with consumerism.
American and European social philosophies are, and have always been, far different and cannot be thought of and compared in the same way. Overall by an Indian person. Sorry Mr. Zakaria, do you realize that you are coming from a country which still believes in social castes? Thus I cannot completely trust your judgment about European democracies, because it might be affected by your cultural background.
Fareed does not believe in Christian democracy. He believes in Hindu-Islamic democracy.
I agree some what you mentioned. at same time Europeans wants to get everything free from GV.It is mean problem and it makes leaders to offer them for free living and education et. If leader don't agree what people want, they will not choose as leader what you say.
I agree some of what you mentioned. at same time Europeans want to get many things for free from GV.It is mean problem due to it makes leaders to offer them for free living and education. If leaders don't agree what people's want, they will not choose as leader what you say.
Signs: your energy and time $ always lost. Each everything politics I am not
Politician we politics analyzer
Dear gentleman APR 19 2012
Please Avoid WAR so many people suffer public
Global economic crisis
Climatechnge
Many people wounded for military troops mort hen 98 000
Each every body leaving 60 to 80 year life only
Effected FDI investor . Thing good do good
Economy improve three way
No 1 free birds meaning open immigration to all country
No 2 open business policy according global law
No 3 all country same currency
CNN WORLD report, in the war 6, 75,000 civilians killed, 7500 troops of USA and its allied forces killed 3 25 000 people wounded and $ 3.5 Trillion Dollar spent for the war. This spending of $ 3.5 Trillion Dollar is the main cause of action for the present economic crises prevailing all over the world.
After winning the war against IRAQ, the United States of America’s President Mr. George W.Bush, also admitted the same fact, and he openly stated that the Intelligence agency misguided him.
Later on, even the United Nations Organization (UNO) also certified that the IRAQ has no nuclear weapons.
m.s.mohamed ansari
International chamber of commerce life member
World peace prayer society life member
USA parliament org economic adviser
What a laugh this article! If there is a country that has a serious problem with democracy it is certainly America. A country where presidents are elected father and then son, and almost husband and then wife! In old Europe we used to call this: a monarchy...
Yes,there is no democracy. Instead ,there is a Globalist Banker's Olympus run by international bankers.They want the people of E.U. to swallow the toxic derivatives and there will be fireworks !
Fareed's simplistic argument could be applied to the former soviet union.
That is, it went bust economically because it was spending huge amounts of money buying votes from it's population, giving them benefits and so forth.
Now, one could argue that the Soviet union was not a democracy, and that the wasted government spending was inside the party, and for party embers only, and that the vast majority of people in the soviet union were taxed like crazy to allow the party machine to enslave the rest.
But, of course, this applies just as well to the EU as it did to the soviet union.
It arguably applies to the USA, as well. What Fareed calls giving money to voters, others might call giving money to members of the party elite.
He should know about that, as his own money comes from the democratic elite, and he is nothing but a mouthpiece for the party that sponsors him.
There is is the bitter hypocrisy of Fareed's position. He is taking money from a party machine which is sending the USA broke by borrowing against future generations income, and yet he criticizes Europeans and the very concept of democracy because he thinks democracy is the root of the debt problem.
Fareed is a party man, through and through. He would have been right at home in the soviet union.
http://oogenhand.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/eurocrisis-and-guaranteed-minimum-income/
We know you capitalists hate democracy, while pretending to defend it during the Cold War. Europe, the Middle-East, and China have severe demographic problems, as outlined by David P. Goldman. Only programmes of mass euthanasia can solve things, but this would mean a radically different value system for China and the Middle-East. This would mean conversion to my religion, the only religion that allows euthanasia in certain cases. But... my religion also requires that the Middle-East and China, when they convert, handover a lot of money to Europe. This will solve our economic problems, as well as a flat tax:
http://oogenhand.wordpress.com/2012/07/11/why-eurabia-will-be-secular/
Is democracy part of Europe's economic problem? Could be, who knows? Certainly not the author of this article. Democracy may also be a part of the USA's economic problem, we continue to elect and re-elect liberal Democrats,, have elected a liberal Democrat president and may well re-elect him.
the kibbutz movement in Israel might be the answer to the shift in wealth to so few people around the world. America with 1% owning 42% of the wealth might benefit from such a change. Yes, democratic socialism might be the answer to the horders of wealth. I wonder what thye %'s are in other places. Without a strong safety net protecting the masses from the greedy and powerful, capitalism fails.
The problem with democracy is people are selfish. They will vote for what is best for themselves, not what is best for their country. When too many people in a democracy figure out they can just vote themselves a gov't check... that democracy is on the path to doom... which the US and most of Europe is.
What "too much democracy" are you talking about? In fact there's actually way too little! Why else are big banks, businesses and their political lackeys able to mess around and gamble away the future of millions of people?
As a politically interested German citizen, I can only agree that there is a significant democracy problem.
But it goes much much deeper and is much worse than just elections.
In the last decade, German politics have increasingly become dominated by indifference. Angela Merkel may have a reputation as a strong negotiator who can get others to do what she wants. But in Germany, we have a completely different image. When Merkel is confronted with a problem, she just sits on her throne in silence, letting everyone voice their complaints, and then keeps waiting until everyone gets frustrated of getting no reply and leaves. Problem solved.
Any problems with the ministers? She lets them fight it out in the media and eventually one has to resign and some other replaceable figure takes the empty chair. Problem solved. Just a few months after elections, the coalition party FDP faded into obscurity and ceased to be relevant. In the next elections they probably won't get any seats in parliament.And Merkels own party CDU is basically down to two people. Merkel and Defense Mininster De Mezaire. The guy who always has to take the chair that is vacant after another minister resigned and then some nobody will take his old one.
And the greatest mystery is, that the oppositen parties are playing along. Everything is wide open for an attack, but nobody really feels like making a real challenge against Merkel. And you can only endure that for so long. After 8 years of this same thing, voters no longer care. Merkel doesn't do anything? We don't care. The opposition does not make a bid for power? We don't care. European Union needs a shared effort by all members to make it to the next decade? We don't care.
So next year there will be elections. Merkel will be on the ballot again, nobody will contest her.
So what...?
When you can vote for free money, democracy always loses. The people and the government has to be responsible in this aspect of life.
I think the Germans are spot on, Europe as a whole has a huge social spending problem, and their right about not believing its going to get better. I remember reading an article about a year ago, when Greece was really starting to have problems, there was a bill put up that was going to extended handicap benefits to Pedophiles. The government was slowly going bankrupt and officials were worried that Pedophiles needed benefits because they were struggling with finding worried after being labelled a pedophile. It's totally irresponsible to just give free money away like this. A line has to be drawn somewhere.
Democracy is not the problem. A democracy is a system of government where a certain portion of the general population elects officials to represent them in government. For a democracy to work well it requires an informed, intelligent citizenry. THAT's the problem. We, and Europe as well, are not informed (where is the truth?) nor intelligent (dumbed-down?). We are a Plutocracy.
Krugman wants you to believe you can have your cake & eat it too. The Germans are right, the budget cuts and financial revamping never come. One only has to look at the US for a classic example. US eco problems come from compromise that never reduces spending, huge Gov't waste & fraud is a by product. Politiks is not the problem...it is the answer!
........ only europe .. please.. all the stupid world. we have a nasty situation with democracy ....
So Germany is denying Europe democracy by refusing to keep lending money to their wasteful neighbors? Not sure what democracy means anymore.
You think we've not told them to cut spending before? They spend in good times and they spend in bad times.If spending made you wealthy Greece would be the richest country in the world.Spending does not bring prosperity.Let's try austerity first for a couple of decades.
America has never experienced Weimar which still haunts Germany. Germany has more important internal issues to deal with than economically carry the rest of Europe on it's back.
We're talking about Euro-Peons are we not ?
You know, the folks that not only invented Feudalism, Fascism, Nazism, Communism, Corporations but also implemented these philosophies on occasion, basing ENTIRE governmental systems on these.
Why would you then doubt that Euro-Peons would have problems handling Democracy ?
"In reality governments spend in good times, and spend even more in good times."
That, in a nutshell, is the problem.
Hence, the rise of libertarianism, the still small but ever-growing call for smaller government
Globalization is working out really well!!!
Europe is enjoying the work of Sir Adolf Hitler.Soon they will see the real face of democracy.The winner will be the great dictators of china.
Nope, Europe has an Arab immigration problem... those people are inherently set to over-populate europe and take over those countries, and little by little that's exactly what's happening... BECAUSE the europeans have decided that having kids is too much of a hustle... well, these social problems they now have are their own doing...
Zakaria is not a credible writer/broadcaster.. he copies stories almost literally from other people's work ...NO CREDIBILITY AT ALL... CNN SHOULD FIRE THIS GUY, NOW !!!!
Hi my loved one! I wish to say that this article is amazing, great written and include approximately all significant infos. I'd like to peer extra posts like this .
Why does CNN allow us to "sound off" on some things, but not others? What are those deciding factors? Are only some things people allowed to have an opinion? I'd rather sound off on the issues that have no sound off...
Democracy is NOT the problem, economists like Paul Krugman are the problem. I have never seen government spending stimulate an economy, and I am old and seen a lot. I HAVE seen tax cuts and reducing regulations work. Kennedy, Reagan and GW Bush all cut taxes and reduced regulations when the economy was bad, and it worked EVERY TIME. Johnson and Obama spent money like drunken sailors, and nothing happened. Nixon tried wage price controls, and nothing happened. Carter did nothing and guess what?! nothing happened.
Oh...I forgot, Carter did give his "malaise" speech. Everyone was suffering with high unemployment, high inflation, and all we got from him was a stupid speech.
The problem is, leftists love Paul Krugman because he says what they want to hear. They want to spend money, and he says it will work, even though history says it won't. "Those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it". We sure are repeating the failures of the past during the Obama administration!
We seem to spend in good times and in bad. Whatever the problem is spend to solve it. The other observation I have is that the spending tends to be concentrated in sectors that don't really help the economy long term. Infrastructure and education are constantly passed over infavor of defense and healthcare. When the CEO of the defense industry sector become the highest paid CEO group in business, you know there is a problem. They have one customer and very good terms. Do we understand that there would be no federal deficit if our per capita healthcare cost were the same as the number two most expensive country in the world? the freem market of adam Smith is supposed to bring the best prices to consumers, not highest income to suppliers/providers?
The UK should move towards the Anglo Saxon model can use see the irony in your comment there?
An excellent article.
Our governments, like our citizens, have effectively become fat and lazy – living well beyond our means on money that was borrowed, not earned. And yes, promoting a much needed crash diet and bitter medicine is a very hard sell indeed.
The only one that can so called vote on this are kings an queens in most of europe an a inslaver named the pope gust be thankful 4 Putin.pnm.
An russia that guy the pope as in the gang boss gives out penabuter sanwiths as bribes after he dopes u up an steels all u wood of had to take care of yourself an family so on an so on.by the way who's wrights can get by his wright violation praying.((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((pnm.
The problem is not democracy but democratic extremists who are eroding society.
Take a look at the austerity measures of the Chretien and Paul Martin government in the 1990. That was clearly a government that was able to explain those kind of measures to it's voters. They got re-elected four times I think.
Democracy, Communism, Fascism, whatever! They all come to power, erode and eventually fail by promising the people endless propserity!
What is your proposal then? What do you bring to the table beside defeatism?
Europe moved towards socialism years ago and the nations that went the farthest to the left are the ones in financial problems. Fareed can't be much of a brain not to know that
I guess we are lucky Fareed did not spend more than a few days in Europe. If he did, then it would have been quite hard to be so superficial.
By which there exists union without the need of prefer, it will be prefer without the need of union.
basket nike http://www.tnniketn2013.com/
As a german I would agree with Martin K.'s posting.
The ministress of education wrote a doctoral thesis in the early eighties about consciousness. Now there are accusations of plagiatism and somebody read the whole thesis and compared every footnote with the exact source of it and put it in the internet. You can see that she just took the same sentence not out of the original literature, but out of other secondary literature and turned it around. For Example: The soup is green, in her version it is: Green is the soup! She often didn't even mentioned names and original text.
Now she thinks, this has nothing to do with the way her consciousness works and that it is enough, that her Doktoral adviser, (Doktorvater) thought, she was an honest person. As ministress of Education she works for the christian democratic party (CDU) and is a close private friend to Angela Merkel. The university was soon after this out-come, accused of being left-wing and influenced to harm her and she said, she would come back with her lawyers! It is more on stake here, not only her reputation and probably that she never knew how to quote properly. I would say Germany is losing the freedom of science. Politics with a hidden religious influence (she quoted Pope Ratzinger and the christian interpretation of consciousness) are disclosing their structures of underlying lobbyism. Germany goes theocratic like Iran and countries in the middle east! Tss
The conclusion or concluding question for this article is obviously flawed. How can "democracy" be the question? The synario outlined in Europe occures as citizens continue to vote for and expect more from the govenment in exchange for taxes paid. Fareed foolishly assumes that "democracy" will result in this as the default choice by the electorate. While this has certianly been true in Europe there is an other choice. Wheras I share a pesimistic view of masses being able to choose well, it is possible at least in theory and sometimes in practice.
1887 Alexander Tyler :
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form
of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover
that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on,
the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public
treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy,
which is always followed by a dictatorship."
As true now as when first said
The founders hoped that people were better than that
The proof is, they are parisites
And as Shakespeare would have said, 'National Economics and Politics are strange bed fellows'.
You can not blame FDR,what WAS suppose to be very good for the elderly and the the very poor,remember we have not had this many people on welfare, ssi ,food stamps and every other free thing this president is giving away. People are not poor ,they have plasma tv's ,cars,they buy cigarettes,they have 5 ,6,7,8, children they neither support or take care of .Black or White makes no difference.In the sixties no one had no more children than they could afford to take care of.I can not remember in the 60"s going to school where parents had more children than they could take care of. Parents were married,they worked at any job ,they made do with what they had,they did not go on vacations if they could not afford it,they made house payments,their furniture lasted a lifetime,so did their appliances.They did not live rich and they did not have credit cards.This is now a soft generation,they want immediate satisfaction no matter what it is they want, and they went into debt themselves,no one twisted their arms to buy a house they couldnot afford....and if people keep buying this crap from China they deserve what they get.There was 6% of people on welfare in the 60"s.this is a 3rd generation of welfare,and 22 year old kids on ssi and living on medical marijuana.This is made mostly of people that do not want to work, will not take a job that is beneath them ,my God this generation does not even cook,they eat out.I can go on the main street of my town and all the restaurants are full.I must be the only person alive that still cans ,grows our own vegetables and cooks every day.grow up America
Public workers are a drain, produce nothing
Private workers can support only so many deadbeats
Public workers are masters of consumpsen
Pittiful production
The workers cannot support so many parisites
Parisites with high wages and fantastic retirements that no private worker gets
So no, the democracy of voting yourself money does not work
It brings everyone down
I'm pleased that even an individual that looks out for the "greater good" (Fareed Zakaria) can see the sense in limiting democracy to budgets and consumption-based taxes.
I would like to save for my family, not the government.
yes,they have no idea what it is.
Tremendous issues here. I'm very satisfied to look your post. Thank you so much and I'm looking forward to touch you. Will you kindly drop me a mail?