Everyone is worried that Greece might default on its national debt. That's really not news. By one estimate, in the 180 years since it gained its independence from the Ottomans in 1832, the country has been in default or restructuring for half this period. The news is that this time, Germany is willing to bail Greece out.
Throughout the euro-zone crisis, it has been conventional wisdom to regard the Germans as narrow-minded, ungenerous and dogmatically wedded to prescriptions of austerity to treat Europe's problems. These criticisms are vastly overstated.
Read more about Germany's response and my column at TIME
The politcal crisis in Greece has all the ingredients of a script from an Aeschylus tragedy – but the drama is real and the consequences potentially severe. This country is the cradle of mythologies and philosophy, that are still widely read today. Indeed modern Greeks aren't much different from their ancient ancestors. Had they a Cassandra today, nobody would believe her predictions. Moreover her deep concerns about the current crisis vis-à-vis her powerlessness would just exemplify the ironic state of the Greeks.
To be the average German citizen or industrialist, planning your physical exit–or at least your life savings-to a quaint little city in England called London. You'll find like minded friends from Greece, Italy, France, and elsewhere, looking to find a home in a non-confiscatory tax environment.
If Germany is to bail Greece, then Italy, how much responsibility are we asking of the Germans?
Will the last German out leave your wurst and strudel with the border guards.
You have no clue of Europe's History...
We should be grateful to Germany because of...
1.000.000 dead, 2 World Wars, a king, the civil war that was created because of them,the crimes against humanity.
For not paying your ww2 loan back to the greek banks, for stealing all of my countries gold and art, for detroying all greece infrastructure, for ruined Ports trains bridges, for bringing my country 100 YEARS back, for recognized FYROM as Macedonia, for the scandal of Siemens, for thescandals of VW, for the broken submarines, for 8000 ancient greek artifacts stolen by the Germans, for letting me support the east borders of EU by our selves, for letting us keep all the illegal immigrants so they can have less in their country, for the orphans that gave to Greece. For the media and ecomonomical war they are doing now. for "Europe Raises Threat Level against Athens", for Spiegels' insults, for having Merkel interfering in our decisions, for the burned down to ground villages, for the
for the holocaust, the
Jasenovac concentration camp
"If Germany paid war reparations to Greece would go bankrupt!" Albrecht Ritschi
You dont know Greek or world history or you dont remember who is who. Zakaria, Instead of asking Germany to say im sorry OR NOT SAY ANYTHING AT ALL, he is asking from Greece to say DANKE.
Germany is a root of lots of evil things. Noone should be greatfull. What they do is only to make money, help their county or even a small guilt. IT IS NOT BECUASE THEY WANT TO HELP GREECE. And thats ok just dont say that we are ungrateful.
Greek dont forget
Efialtis is the greek word for nightmare. We just dont forget.
NO GERMAN IS ALLOWED TO SAY "WE SAVED EUROPE ETC" NOONE. They have destroyed twice.
Please leave the greeks alone if you have no idea what you are talking about.
Totally agree. Germans are not saviors; they financially gain from our (greek) crisis. I just wonder how a prominent reporter like Zakaria Fareed makes such superficial statements.....
Hey, if you don't like it do something about it... wait, that would require work! That'll never happen.
You made the problem yourselves. You never had to join the Euro, and never had to take money from the Germans. And if you were not weak effeminate cowards you wouldn't have been beaten like a rented mule by the Germans in the war. Not the Germans fault you are incompetent.
crazypete, those effeminate cowards lasted longer than any other continental country in the war. Those effeminate cowards were the ones being hailed by the world because of their resistance. And those effeminate cowards were the ones that got more destruction in return than most countries in the continent, followed by the least help – always compared to the destruction they suffered.
I do not see why your current opinion of Greece has to disgrace the men that fought for our "Allies" no questions asked and were always there to support the anti-Nazi struggle.
Again one of the stereotypes; Greeks don't work. For your information, they do. And some of them have multiple jobs.
I only agree on the fact that yes, we shouldn't have joined the euro. As also many other countries. We are not the only ones who "tailored" their books.
And here comes the average european as you, with the stereotype: Greeks don't work. Well they do. And some of them try to have multiple jobs just to survive and pay the rent. No luxuries.
The thing is, there aren't enough jobs or well payed jobs, cause there is no developlment. Said by a girl who is doing her master abroad for a better future, with an educated sister and educated friends (countless examples) who can't find any job in Greece.
And seriously? Now you blame us for the war? Obviously you have no consciousness of what you are talking about. It is not a game or about saying it is US and YOU. People died you moron.
No matter what a decent solution should be found that will serve the people in general (not only greek people).
Heh. Sorry guys, just trollin'.
Thanks for biting though...
I think it is a big mistake to blame the Germans for the Greek faults. Cursing at the Germans will only diminish the already dwindling willingness of the German taxpayers to aid in a solution. In addition, it also doesn't help the Greek tourist industry, which is an important part of the GNP. Tourist bookings have been going down as much as 50% in the last months, which only worsens the situation.
"Germany contributes $924 billion to the European Financial Stability Facility. The number will rise. Ungenerous?"
The 9/11 victims asked from the airlines $25.000 per person
if you think that is fair
25.000 per person x 1.000.000 dead greeks= 25 trillion.....
and that is only for the lives that took away. if you add all the rest (banks, arts, loan, roads, ports, bridges, money, gold, oil, natural resources ert) the number get bigger and bigger
and if you add all the money and the destruction they cost on ecery civilian the number gets bigge bigger bigger and bigger
and if you also add the other european countries (poland serbia, engalnd, france etc) and the crimes they did there too
the number get bigger and bigger and bigger.
keep going germany is a tiny number keep going....
The real european economy was reset it twice because of them..... keep going
Do you still thing they are generous?
25 billion, not trillion.
The Latin “Nihil novi sub sole” or
as Karl Marx noted that history has a habit of repeating itself, the first time as tragedy, the second as farce.
The Pentecontaetia (the period of fifty years) was marked by the rise of democracy and Athens as the dominant state within ancient states of that time by overtaking the leadership of the Delian League, a coalition of states that wished to continue the war against Persia. Macedonia was not member of the league.
Athens as the creator of the democracy assumed the right to reduce the most of the allies to the status of tribute paying subjects. Athens benefited greatly from this tribute and misused founds undertaking massive public buildings projects (Parthenon). Athenian democracy actually was radical Periclean democracy, in which the payed juries exercised near-complete control over the state.
Any member of the league who attempted to secede have been forced to tear down its walls, and lost its fleet and its vote in the League. Their land and naval ships were confiscated by Athens.
Finally,Athenian general Pericles moved the Delian League's treasury from Delos to Athens (to protect it). Many of Pericles' rivals viewed the transfer to Athens as usurping monetary resources. Athens also switched from accepting ships, men and weapons as dues from league members, to only accepting money.
The Athen’s democracy was only reserved for atenians, while others (caled “barbarians”) were not alowed to participate. They simply have to pay the bill.
Meanwhile, during the nintieneth century, there were created many diferent coalitions with Athen’s taking part in aiming liberation of christians from the Othoman’s slavery. The bigest success was the division of Macedonia between allies.
Even the tventyest and twentifirsth century are still marked by the same behavior of the Athens. The proclamed principles are not respected and no obligations can be imposed to the one.
It is strange that politicians of the country that missuses funds and falsified data required for joining the monetary union has still power to refuse agreed contracts. It could be useful. Whenever some country does not want to pay its obligations it can use that model, acting in a similar way. Anyhow, German people will pay the bill they already have experienced similar situation ...
"It is strange that politicians of the country that issued Holocaust, and murdered millions not only joined the monetary union has
still power to refuse pay its victims, or the loans that took from the Greek banks in WW||. It could be useful.
Whenever some country does not want to pay its obligations it can use that model, acting in a similar way.
Anyhow, Greek people will pay the bill they already have experienced similar situation ..."
"Whenever some country does not want to pay its obligations it can use that model, acting in a similar way."
Kill murder dont pay, insult your victims. Destroy, loot, countries, continents and then act like nothing happened.
Thats the model you are referring and it is barbaric and uncivilized.
If you say that im a bad person becuase i didnt pay my bills big freaking deal....
But better make sure that you are good and you pay your bills.
I hate to brake the news to you but Germany owes to Greece LOTS AND LOTS OF MONEY....
Germany had barrowed a lot of money, which means they live beyond their means,
Germany is not paying the money that they owe to other countries from the ww2 which means not ony they dont loose money but they make money since they dont have to apy.
When you are a criminal a human right offender you have no right to talk and lecture anybody.
You have a very Dark place in history opposite of what Greece has.,
Stop insulting and make fun of the Greeks.
It is ubnrespectfull to all this people that had to go through all the evil you created.
They are people that are still alive and reading your thoughts and cant belive that you have the nervs to say this things.
Greece needs to pay its debt, in a logical time frame, and you need to pay the money you owe to Greece.
70 years you had a free ride. Dont blame the Greeks that they dont pay. They had you as a teacher.
It is hypocracy of the worst kind.
You model i can do whatever i want, i can be a murderer, and i can blame the poor guy or the spender it is crazy
You didnt take any responsibilities, or mention any of the bad things that Germany did, meanwhile you TRIED TO CONNECT YOUR HOLOCAUST WITH THE GOLDEN AGE, it is unspeakable.
But again you do have an uber ulles mentality and it is a proof that neonazism still lives in some german hearts.
I DONT THANK GERMANY FOR THE CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.
I THANK MYSELF THAT I STOOD AGAINT THE GERMAN MACHINE
I DONT THANK GERMANY THAT THEY DESTROYED MY COUNTRY, THAY NEVER PAID, AND NOT THEY PREACHING GREATNESS.
GERMANY HAD NO PLACE FOR LEADING OR LECTURING. GERMANY IS THE BIGGEST OFFENDER OF UNPAID BILLS IN THE WORLD.
Germany been paying thru the nose for everything, you must from East Germany who thinks that West Germany owes you.
U have no idea how much money you owe..
And that's k
But to not have any idea how much damage and how much pain you created it is a sin
There are people that read what you did write and they are survivors of the camps.
But again germany doesn't value life
Get over it dude!!! Maybe the Egyptioans and Iranians should be asking for money for all the death and destruction that Alexander the Great cost them.
Mr. Zakaria, in your Sunday morning program you compared a blessing by a priest of the Russian Orthodox church of Russian cosmonauts to Yuri Gagarin's habit of urinating on the wheels of a bus before each blastoff.
We live in a multi cultural society and we do so peacefully because we do not make horribly insensitive and cruelly remarks.
I think you owe the American people an apology...
I have read both articles and most of the comments. As I have said before I am currently re-reading Heredotus. And the current going-ons donot look any different. I will make no comment on our neighbour the Greeks but just speak of my impressions of a time almost 2500 years ago. There were the Phoenicians who kidnapped a girl and the Europeans who kidnapped another girl in return. And than Paris kidnapped Hellen which started out this scuffle betwean Europe (Hellens) and Asia (Persians). Not for getting back those girls off course...By than a concept of a united world under one KING was in fashion.The Ionians would find a reason to fight their neighbour state, apply to Delphos for an oracle, take over that state and plunder it and give 10% of the spoils to Delphi as an offering (10% taxation is quite low compaired with the current figure mind you. The Persian military and government of the period was better organized. In that Atina was a democracy and Persians was ruled my monarchy. The benefits of each system is discussed in detail in the History of Heredotus.
What I would like to point out is that there is this passage talking about a man trying to raise an army to get back his kingdom talking to a city state ruled by a king who refused him and talking to the senato of Atina. He convinced the Atina senato. Heredotus makes a comment here. "It seam its easier to convice many peope than convince a single person". I always knew people talk a lot but do nothing. After I grew up to understand more I came to believe that doing "ANYTHING POSITIVE" rather than talking is better than sitting on your COMFORTABLE CUSHIONS. I just comment variously since I am a national of a country who has been continuously refused to become a part of EU (Thanks God Almighty). I feel I have no position to comment on the Greco-Goth Europian problem.
ta fo a better time comment
I like Zakaria and respect what he aims to do. That is the single reason I dare and take time to write on his page. He is opening and encouraging a discusion platorm in the most heated issue of the world. This may be the most hot and exceptional base but the World is such a base. It must come to talking means somehow.
if Greece don't want reform Germany should keep their money and the EU should kick out Greece, leave them to their faith. They will beg later.. the same should go to other weak countries.
Greec contribution to the global GDP is less 1% Very insignificant.
Besides some EU banks going bust if Greece declare insolvent, some EU Government will be pulled along into the deep end but still there is no cause for alarm.
By now many countries are preparing for this financial meltdown in EU. Asia and the rest of the emergin countries will continue to push forward without EU. And this could remain so for the next 20 years. This is the timeline for EU's trouble states to completely recover .
Even if Greece get financial help to save it from bankruptcy it will be back to square one after a few years. You see, most Greeks will continue to support any populist Government that is willing to spend, spend and spend till it's all gone. When the country is broke again, the Government will be sacked, another revolving of Government is elected , and rule the same way – which is spend, spend and spend till its all gone. And then its back to ECB for help again.
How long can this keep up without causing any disruption to the Europen economies which is already miles behind Asia and the emerging countries.
So, its better for the everyones sakes that Greece become bankrupt. Greeks will then be forced to become prudent and work harder to rebuild their country.
"Hey Greece – there is no such thing as a free lunch forever"
Greece contribution to the global GDP is less than 1%. Very insignificant.
By now many countries are preparing for this financial meltdown in EU.
Asia and the rest of the emergin countries will continue to push forward without EU. And this could remain so for the next 20 years. This is the timeline for EU's trouble states to completely recover .
Even if Greece get financial help to save it from bankruptcy it will be back to square one after a few years. You see, most Greeks will continue to support any populist Government that is willing to spend, spend and spend till it's all gone. When the country is broke again, the Government will be sacked, another revolving Government is elected , and they will rule the same way – which is spend, spend and spend till its all gone. And then its back to ECB for help again.
So, its better that Greece become bankrupt. Greeks will then be forced to become prudent and work harder to rebuild their country.
zakaria zakaria, how dare you actlike the German people of Germany today are responsible for the atrocities from nearly 80 years ago. Germany did not create this crisis for Greece, let me remind you who did – GREECE! The Greek government was not honest about its finances (in particular taxes) and therefore after years and years of overestimating their own economy they realised that it actually wasn't half there!
And now it's the German people who are to blamebecause of the Holocaust!? Yes and is that your soloution to the Greek finnancial crisis? Get angry at Germany again about the world wars?
Grow up and take some responsability for your own countries mistakes and stop trying to shift the focus onto Germany. You're just lucky Germany WILL bail you out – Im an expat living here and I can tell you – alot of people are not supportive of another Greek bailout. If you dont want the money – DONT TAKE IT!
Fareed, as most of the comments here, I disagree with your statement. I see no other outcome than Greece exiting the eurozone. The German government will continue to be stubborn (as germans tend to be) and believe that a german approach to the euro is the best approach. This suits Germany pretty well but it does not suit other countries (Spain, France, Italy, etc.) I fear that Germany will drive the entire eurozone to crumbles due to their stubborness and lack of flexibility.
Christians concerned as rightwing factions splinter to form militant outfits.
PUNE, India, October 29 (CDN) — After more than a decade of severe persecution, India’s Christian minority is growing increasingly concerned over the mushrooming of newer and deadlier Hindu extremist groups.
Gone are the days when Christians had to watch out only for the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (World Hindu Council) and its youth wing, Bajrang Dal, which are closely linked with the most influential Hindu extremist umbrella organization, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS). With voter support faltering for the RSS’s political wing, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), moderate and extremist sections within the Hindu nationalist movement are blaming each other, and militant splinter groups have emerged.
Claiming to be breakaway factions of the RSS, new groups with even more extreme ideology are surfacing. The Abhinav Bharat (Pride of India), the Rashtriya Jagran Manch (National Revival Forum), the Sri Ram Sene (Army of god Rama), the Hindu Dharam Sena (Army for Hindu Religion) and the Sanatan Sanstha (Eternal Organization) have launched numerous violent attacks on Christian and Muslim minorities.
Zakaria, one correction only regarding what you said. This is a distinction that cannot be repeated enough. I keep reading about Greeks hating on the Germans and portraying them as Nazis. Keep in mind that, while Greece has had a German-originating propaganda for years now, calling the Greek POPULACE lazy, cheats, liars etc, Germany only had its POLITICAL figures ridiculed and portrayed as Nazis in some newspapers. This difference might seem small to you but the way you show things, you are skewing reality. Greeks don't have a problem with the German people, they have a problem with Merkel etc – who even stated publically that the Greeks need to take less vacation and not be lazy, the same Greeks who take less vacation overall than Germans. On the other hand, it seems like the rest of Europe feels more aggression towards the Greek Population than the politicians, who were the ones doing the cheating and lying, both to the Greeks and to the EU. You have to look no further than articles in Germany depicting ordinary Greeks as cheats and lazy or beer commercials in Slovakia that state "to be Greek is to be a beggar". I am sorry, but I do not see how portraying Merkel in Nazi uniform is insulting to the average German while portraying all struggling Greeks as lazy and worthy of such treatment is acceptable.
You should have just let Germany take you over completely in World War II. They would have taught you hard work and competevness and your ecomomy, country, and society as a whole would not be the worthless stain on Europe that it is today.
There is no better time than a crisis for ALL people to show their true colors (both in Greece and Internationally). And with friends like these, who needs enemies?
Thank you so much Fareed for your take on the current economic crisis in Greece and the European bail-out programs. It is as if finally a word of truth has been spoken.
As a German, a often feel stunned when I listen to the international media coverage of the so called “Euro crisis”. Obviously, common sense has become a very rare good these days.
Over decades, governments in almost all western countries have built up large public sectors and a broad social welfare system. Parties across the political spectrum have continuously sought re-election through large spending programs and the promise of even more benefits. Thus, governments piled up a massive public debt. This may have been an acceptable policy during the cold-war period. However, after the fall of the iron curtain, the rise of Asia and in times of an increasing global economic competion, no government in Europe or elsewhere can afford to continue their unbalanced spending policies. Nowadays, substantial economic reforms are what it takes to face the challenges of the modern world in the 21st century, regardless if that fits your ideology or not.
(to be continued)
I do ackknowledge that the current reform process and the austerity programs are hard for many ordinary people in Europe, especially in Greece. However, people in EU countries like Irland and Portugal understand and accept that their own democratically elected governments got them in the severe situation they are now facing. And they even say “Thank you” and “Obrigado” for other countries taxpayer’s bail-out money. So why should the Greeks complain? If you willfully burn down your own house, then it is rather a bold move to insult those who offer you to extinguish the fire and rebuild your home.
StephanK, we went through that stage of the bottleneck that we called the tightning of the belt buckles. I remember days when I did not have money to buy a loaf of bread (this is not exagerating). High level university graduate white colors were hit harder as they were the ones with higher earning and the first group to economise on. Younger new graduates with lesser expectations were prefared as employees. All my investment in my aeducation and career became just a trash. People had to start all over again. It was a painfull period. But it was necessary, done and forgotten. What must be done must be done even if you have to swallow the bitter pill.
By the wat the above duration was successfully completed in Turkey.
When times are tough ... people come closer and "embraced" louder, something they know very well the "Friends of the Homeless." Without waiting any mirrored, but motivated by the support and assistance not only homeless, but the poor and unemployed, soup kitchens out every Thursday at 15:00 at the statue of Athena. Converting the Champ de Mars, for one hour each week in a shelter for all homeless people in Athens, offering food, clothing and hope for a better life.
Years back Turkey's economy was rock bottom. We owed to everyone around. Many different Turkish government could not manage the economy in the past with also the explicit advise of the esteemed IMF (International Money Fund). With the innovative measures taken under the ideas of Mr Babacan (a genious if you ask me), Turkey did almost the opposite of what she was advised by the conventional so called experts just before the Global Crises and came out better off. But now, although Turkey's economy has no internal problems and is growing, we are still affected by the down trend of the global economy. If you ask me, I would say this is injustice.
Zakaria I get the message a bit too late. But cannot overlook financial and administrative mistakes. French farmers were right when they rioted against EU rules of standardising everything. The whole scheme stink. But if one has to eat the stinking fish to get the world going around ...Well... The major European States did it a bit too much that the rest of the world.
Put about half a dozen of trademen inside a tradeground to sell their goods. The goods will be almost the same coming from the same county of origin. These trademen will do their best (.......................) to destroy the other trademen...Not his/her goods. And do nothing to promote the goods of their country.
The Global Public Square is where you can make sense of the world every day with insights and explanations from CNN's Fareed Zakaria, leading journalists at CNN, and other international thinkers. Join GPS editor Jason Miks and get informed about global issues, exposed to unique stories, and engaged with diverse and original perspectives.
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Check out all of Fareed's Washington Post columns here:
Obama as a foreign policy president?
Why Snowden should stand trial in U.S.
Hillary Clinton's truly hard choice
China's trapped transition
Obama should rethink Syria strategy
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