By Fareed Zakaria
If you look at Egypt moving forward, there's a great deal of emphasis placed on the various political parties and what they may stand for and what they're going to do. But we have to remember: The real obstacle to democracy in Egypt continues to be the people who run Egypt — a military dictatorship.
The military is still in power and they still dominate the economy — there are some estimates that they control between 10 and maybe even 30% of the economy. No one knows because it's all secret. But the point is unless the Egyptian military is genuinely willing to cede power, it doesn't really matter that much who wins the presidential election this week.
If you look at the Supreme Council of Armed Forces and the way in which it has controlled the press (punishing people who write exposés, for example) it's a very disturbing sign. And it shows you how important it will be not just to have elections in Egypt, but to have the other parts of a liberal democracy: the guarantees and rights of freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of association. Let's not forget — these are the inner stuffings of democracy.
The most important aspect of Egyptian democracy-building will not be the elections. It will be the writing of the constitution and making sure there are guarantees for women, for minorities, for free speech and for free assembly.
For now, political Islam has an enormous hold over the populace. The reason you didn't see that for the last few decades was because Egypt was a military dictatorship and it didn't really matter what the people of Egypt felt.
But over time, I think that religiosity will be moderated, as it has in almost every Muslim country that has turned to democracy. Because given time, people realize: they really want good government, they want jobs, they want economic welfare, and the mullahs aren't always able to deliver those things. It doesn't matter so much what you preach about in abstract matters, what matters is governance.
Democracy in Egypt would be an earthquake in the Arab world — if it succeeds. And the reason is that Egypt is the heart and soul of the Arab world. Egypt is the place from which all culture emanates in the Arab world: the songs and music, the TV shows, the language in many ways.
Egypt is the birthplace of the two biggest political ideas of the modern Arab world. The first being Arab nationalism or Pan-Arabism, the idea of politically unifying Arab countries; and the second being Islamic fundamentalism and this whole idea of political Islam which came from the Muslim Brotherhood and Sayyid Qutb. These were Egyptian ideas which then spread throughout the Arab and then the Islamic world.
So if the next big idea to spring out of Egypt is a working Muslim democratic system, that would be seismic.
Does the idealism from the height of the revolution still exist? What will be the greatest challenge for Egypt's new president? Watch the video for more on the Egypt presidential election.
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introducing western style democracy in a muslim country is like subjecting a man for prenatal.
your comment is just so stupid...
when muslims had doctors, westerners where still living in caves..does that make you gentically inferior now?
do you have any knoledge of history during the last 50 years?
Yeah, sure!
If you say so. But what have you done lately. Just more Mosques and more Muslims...nothing else to offer.
Yeah, that's when "Science" believed that the earth was flat, that the sun is what revolves around the earth etc. Stop comparing modern science to your primordial bullcrap. Moron!
Wow, someone needs a sedative !
Please so us some proof of a modern civilized muslim dominated country where people are truely "Free".
I wouldn't ask somebody about the history of the Islamic world during the past 50 years, but as far back as the Middle Ages, the Middle East was excelling in mathematics and science while people in Europe were living in dirt. Muslim dominated countries can be democratic. Just look at the United Arab Emirates. That country is doing pretty well with a very high standard of living and its a Muslim country. Some of you people are so close-minded. Do some more research on this kind of stuff.
is there even a true democratic islamic state?
Nobel prize winners 1st those of the Jewish faith,
Chemistry (32 prize winners, 20% of world total, 29% of US total)
Economics (28 prize winners, 41% of world total, 53% of US total)
Literature (13 prize winners, 12% of world total, 27% of US total)
Peace (9 prize winners, 9% of world total, 10% of US total)4
Physics (49 prize winners, 26% of world total, 37% of US total)
Physiology or Medicine (54 prize winners, 27% of world total, 40% of US total)
NO Muslim living under Islamic influence has ever won a Nobel Prize.
Professor Abdus Salam [Physics 1979] .
Naguib Mahfouz [Literature 1988].
Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat [Peace 1978],
Yasser Arafat [Peace 1994]
Ahmed Zewail [Chemistry 1999]
Ferid Murad [Medicine 1998],
Shirin Ebadi, [ peace 2003}
Mohamed ElBaradei, [2005 Peace]
i have all the knowledge of you muslims i need to know - keep it in the middle east!!!!!!!!!!
Your argument is moot. First Islam came to be in 632 of OUR era and some 2000 years after the Jewish religion. So, it sure took Arabs a long time to get the same message that the people of the book received and understood. Second, Europeans by that time, had ceased to live in caves for a few thousand years. So why do you think Europeans and others should feel genetically inferior? How many Nobel prize winners are Muslims? Now do YOU feel inferior?
I thought when rome with all its technological marvels was at its zenith Islam did not even exist. When Constantinople fell what did the Muslims do. they just changed the signage on the Hagia Sophia and still pretend they did some sort of technological marvel there. by the way the Arabs did not come up with any thing of their own. they only peddled Chinese and Indian knowledge to the west pretending to be theirs. Islam does not allow for radical thinking, the meaning of the word Islam itself is submission..
There was a Muslim Golden Age, were science, literature and mathematics flourished. The works of Plato, Socrates, Cicero,Seneca and other ancient texts were translated, these in turn would be translated into European languages later on, sparking the Renaissance and pulling europe out of the dark ages. The learning centers of Damascus, Bagdad (yes Bagdad), Cordoba in Spain. The Moors conquered southern Spain and brought with them modern irrigation systems and agricultural innovations, as well as magnificent architecture. Spain was ruled by the moors for 700 years. The courts of the caliphs consisted of doctors, architects, mathematicians, artists and teachers. It is interesting to note, that the jews held a special place as ambassadors, financiers, tax collectors, scribes and doctors. As "people of the book", the jews were also protected. You can go to Spain today and see the marvelous creations of Islam's golden age. Anyone who has ever taken Algebra will tell you, who was its author. Unfortunately Islam has been hijacked by the lunatic fringe and it's creative soul stunted by fanaticism.
Westerners were not living in caves – to the contrary, these modern and enlightened civilizations were overrun by barbarians from Arabia. That is why the caliphate never returned to backward and tribal Arabia.
Wilbur,
United Arab Emirates is democratic? A british national got jailed for 3 years over there for kissing his wife in public. I question your understanding of democracy, but I realize that your perception of Arab nations might be superficial and shallow. If you knew anything about Emirati law, you wouldn't have made such a laughable comment.
The US does not trust free unfettered democracies they prefer dictators, they are easier to control. they have a history of getting rid of the democracies they can not control, ala Iran in the 50s.
Well, you are right that Democracy in Egypt will not be the same as in the USA or the West. Because in Egypt they have to go by the Islamic way of Democracy. Granted, the West has such a bleak picture of Islam – because people ignorant like you, who speaks or write without first getting the facts from reliable sources. Sadly, in the West – we do not have reliable sources because of their never ending love story with a tiny illegal country called – Israel! Islam is a religion derived from the Jewish and Christian religion. Islam is the seal of all religion.
It was the west thatr believed the world was flat.
1400 years ago Islam was as barbaric as it is today.
I just hope instead of going back 50 years in history that we go back a little more. Many of us do believe that we, humans, all came from Adam & Eve, yet many of us choose nothing but to fight others because of their beliefs, color, race and/or simply because they don't speak English!
Again, the medical know how you mention was pirated from the Greeks and Romans when the Muslims violently attacked and conquered by the sword and forced the conversion of Roman Christian provinces...like Egypt interestingly enough. However, that same know how was invented by Western Greeks and Romans 1000 years before the birth of Islam, when Arabs were still wandering the desert and murdering each other.
Riadh I used to live in the Muslim country. Locals used to call non muslims "stupid" – exactly like you are doing now. Personally I think the reason 58 of 60 poorest countries in the world are MUSLIM it is because they are Muslims.
UN Resolutions Against ISRAEL, 1955-1992.
Resolution 106: "...condemns Israel for Gaza raid"
Resolution 111: "...condemns Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"
Resolution 127: "...recommends Israel suspend its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem"
Resolution 162: "...urges Israel to comply with UN decisions"
Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations by Israel in its attack on Syria"
Resolution 228: "...censures Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control"
Resolution 237: "...urges Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees"
Resolution 248: "...condemns Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan"
Resolution 250: "...calls on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem"
Resolution 251: "...deeply deplores Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250"
Resolution 252: "...declares invalid Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital"
Resolution 256: "...condemns Israeli raids on Jordan as flagrant violation"
Resolution 259: "...deplores Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation"
Resolution 262: "...condemns Israel for attack on Beirut airport"
Resolution 265: "...condemns Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan"
Resolution 267: "...censures Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem"
Resolution 270: "...condemns Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon"
Resolution 271: "...condemns Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem"
Resolution 279: "...demands withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 280: "...condemns Israeli's attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 285: "...demands immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon"
Resolution 298: "...deplores Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem"
Resolution 313: "...demands that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 316: "...condemns Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon"
Resolution 317: "...deplores Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon"
Resolution 332: "...condemns Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 337: "...condemns Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty"
Resolution 347: "...condemns Israeli attacks on Lebanon"
Resolution 425: "...calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 427: "...calls on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon"
Resolution 444: "...deplores Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces"
Resolution 446: "...determines that Israeli settlements are a serious obstruction to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
Resolution 450: "...calls on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon"
Resolution 452: "...calls on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories"
Resolution 465: "...deplores Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program"
Resolution 467: "...strongly deplores Israel's military intervention in Lebanon"
Resolution 468: "...calls on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return"
Resolution 469: "...strongly deplores Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians"
Resolution 471: "...expresses deep concern at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
Resolution 476: "...reiterates that Israel's claims to Jerusalem are null and void"
Resolution 478: "...censures (Israel) in the strongest terms for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'"
Resolution 484: "...declares it imperative that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors"
Resolution 487: "...strongly condemns Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility"
Resolution 497: "...decides that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is null and void and demands that Israel rescind its decision forthwith"
Resolution 498: "...calls on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon"
Resolution 501: "...calls on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops"
Resolution 509: "...demands that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon"
Resolution 515: "...demands that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in"
Resolution 517: "...censures Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 518: "...demands that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon"
Resolution 520: "...condemns Israel's attack into West Beirut"
Resolution 573: "...condemns Israel vigorously for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters"
Resolution 587: "...takes note of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw"
Resolution 592: "...strongly deplores the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops"
Resolution 605: "...strongly deplores Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians"
Resolution 607: "...calls on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
Resolution 608: "...deeply regrets that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians"
Resolution 636: "...deeply regrets Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians"
Resolution 641: "...deplores Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians"
Resolution 672: "...condemns Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount"
Resolution 673: "...deplores Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations"
Resolution 681: "...deplores Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians"
Resolution 694: "...deplores Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return"
Resolution 726: "...strongly condemns Israel's deportation of Palestinians"
Resolution 799: "...strongly condemns Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return."
Muslims had doctors while the west was living in caves? Islam has been around since around 610.
"Democracy" and a country in the middle east (except tiny Israel) should never be used in the same sentence. Whatever Egypt or the other Arab countries create, it will not be what we think democracy would be. It will be something quite different, with restricted freedom and a religious tyrany.
There goes another stupid comment coming out of utter ignorance of the Arab and Muslim history distorted by colonial mentality !!
" it will not be what we think democracy would be"
Does it have to be? Also, we consider our democracy to include freedoms of and from religion. How does "Tiny Israel" fit into that category at all? They try to have the appearance of such, but when the star of david is on your flag and you treat jews differently from everyone else in your country, that facade quickly fades away to the impartial observer.
Because we don't have democracy here in the US. We have a republic, at best a democratic republic. So, if the middle east ends up having TRUE democracy. It will be completely different from what we have here in the states.
Egypt is in NORTH AFRICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Israel is not a Democracy. Especially when the king of Israel cancels elections the way he did. Israel is a terrorist, racist, apartheid, theocracy.
the question is , is there a real democracy in america ? all i can see is a non-intellectual majority controled by a jewish menority all the taxes and economic benefits goes to the jews they are enjoying theire lives in beverley hills while ignorant americans are living in hell and concentrating on arab's businesses and forget their owns i have nothing against jews it's just an absolute facts , so please stop insult/hate arabs and see yourselves before you criticize them , whom who has a houses of glasses doesn't throw people with stones
"all i can see is a non-intellectual majority controled by a jewish menority all the taxes and economic benefits goes to the jews they are enjoying theire lives in beverley hills while ignorant americans are living in hell..."
And you are saying you "do not have anything against Jews and it's just an absolute facts "?
coo coo!
Wouldn't expect anything else from a muslim
What in the world is a "menority"?
Your confused rant makes clear that you are one of the "non-intellectual" majority.
Giving a muslim democracy is like giving a pig a bath and dressing him up in human clothes. Eventually he rolls in the mud and the clothes fall off and he loves it being a pig.
You talk like a pig yourself, I am sure you also act like a pig, eat like a pig and smell like a pig
Most eloquent Really?.
Bravo!
racist Israeli
100%
Giving Yasser Arafat a peace price is a total joke.
He's the father of modern day terrorism . There must be some prize or recognition for that. This exposed the insanity of political correctness.
So true and well said. To Egyptians and to most of the Muslim world, their lives are ruled first and foremost by the koran, whose democratic values are non-existent, at best.
You are all wrong. Separate church and state is the only path. It is the merging that destroyed Islam the first time. They forgot their own history.
And what is muslim "sage" Zakaria is proposing – the Egyptian military should cede to the Islamists.
Riadh, are you serious. First off, most of what Muslims get credit for in the Dark Ages was keeping Grecco-Roman ideas alive. And, if you want to be historical like that, when Muslims and Arabs were still wandering the desert butchering each other (much like today), The Greeks, Romans and Macedonians in the West were inventing the philosphy and medicine that the Muslims later wanted credit for.
And what is muslim "sage" Zakaria hoping for, that the mullah's and immams will "moderate with time", lol
Mr. Fareed Zakaria is e real problem. He is a radical pretending to be moderate. ALL his views are pro radical Muslims. All of them!
It is pure folly to expect anything but pure chaos from a Muslim country. Expect a War now that they have majority rule. As for the comments by some that muslims had advanced civilizations before the west, it seems they have forgot about the greeks, romans, non muslim persians, etc . . . who all had advanced societies long before the religion of peace came on the scene.
A difference between muslims and islamistes have to be made. Islamistes
Are a big danger to everyone. They dont believe in democrary nor in
Freedom. Some type of instutution has to protect the democraty.
If the islamistes take power they will turn the ruleing to
An islamiste dictaturship. They will stop any political party that opposes
Them.
The number 1 danger are Muslim brothers, and other extremist groups. Military keeps them under control.
It's the same as in Iraq: US eliminated Sadam who was keeping under control muslim radical groups.
Very stupid. Now US have a problem with radical muslims and DOES NOT HAVE all those beautiful oil wells!!!
It's Islame. Duuuuuuuuuuuh!!!!!!11
REspected, Mr.Fareed Zakaria Garu,
Some people demolished Egipt Democracy and sovereignty. But what ever it, obstacle will be revealed in shortly.
Okay, I'll wait.
Strengthening the Islamist fascists to attack and destabilized the Western value and interests, domestically and internationally, is the main secret goals, that has been lead by some Egyptians, everywhere.
Currently, most Arab-Muslims are operating Limousine and other Cash businesses in U.S and Canada, first, to make Money and second, to get accesses of personal information of the Western clients.
Having said that, democracy in Egypt, is only for those who have links and participants to be against Western interests, according to how the Master plans are designed.
The Arab-Muslims are more secretive than their previous.....activities.
The signs that we expect to see are: more Arab-Muslims are married Jewish Women and converted them into Muslim,
more Arab-Muslims married Christians and converting them into Muslims.
Currently, more than Half-Million Jewish Women are married Arab-Muslims for financial gain, but, technically to be used for political reason.
The signs that we expected not to see, will remain with those high ranking Muslims.
==================
Is there a Democracy somewhere in the World?
Really? The right to protest in WALL STREET, without confrontation????
Did the Arab World seen the protesters in America, 99% vs 1% Slogan?
yes we saw the occupy wall street mouvement, and we are happy for you,
but "we" still think you need mental health assistance too...
America was real obstacle of democracy in Egypt and now military has added to this list .
Come on Fareed Zakaria, quit pretending you don't know the truth.
He knows for sure. Mr. Fareed Zakaria just one more anti American BS artist.
The elections of Egypt are like a well-written soap opera where you see both candidates very romantically proud of their culture which makes for a very attractive celebration for everyone across the world to see... how either supposedly from good or bad (depending who you are) sections of Egyptian society instead of killing themselves, dress in their best to get elected "democratically" which is a great start and the right way for the children and everyone to enjoy and be part of.
The new elected president will either be an Armed Forces Supreme Council puppet, or will clash with them in a power struggle. Either way, it'll be bad for Egypt.
It's democracy STUPID ! It's messy !!
It's not democracy when one group is told not to participate or have a candidate, for example the Christians. This is pseudo democracy posing as Islamist democracy. Let all participate or just doesn't count. That book the Koran is not the truth.
I agree in principle with your last sentence, but what is the likelihood?
"The real obstacle to democracy in Egypt continues to be the people who run Egypt — a military dictatorship."
You got it, bro!
Just as in other cases, the military stands between a democracy and a theocracy. WHich one is worse ?
This is actually a very valid point and one that is confounding Egyptians themselves. The big question is do they go with a SCAF (military) puppet who will probably continue as before – safeguarding military interests but better upholding minority protections and the economy? Or, do they go with those that could possibly break SCAF (bloody clashes etc.) but would be repressive in a different way- depriving minorities and women of full rights, and possibly harming the economy?
I just got back from Egypt last Thursday. Just about everyone I talked to is not enthusiastic over any of the candidates. I think they sense even darker days ahead but are avoiding internally realizing it. It is quite possible that Egypt could break down into a civil war. That said, Egyptians tend to want stability too and have tended to try to keep things fairly calm – which is why they didn't confront the military during the initial revolution days. Clashes and protests not withstanding things could have been a lot worse during the initial revolution.
It is all really, really up in the air right now. Egypt could conceivably draw out the tussle with the SCAF (and Fareed is absolutely right – it is the military) and eventually erode it's influence over a few decades (Turkish model), or it could be impatient and devolve into violent confrontation on a larger scale than what we have seen so far (perhaps Algeria, Libya, Syria, or Lebanon). With the economy tanking so badly, SCAF may not have enough resources or cards to play to avoid an outright confrontation. By the last 2 months I was in Egypt, everyone was complaining that there is just a few hours of work a day available.
Personally, I think SCAF is built on a house of cards and they know it (remember most of the military are conscripts required to do a year or two of service). They are trying to maintain power and their interests but I would not be surprised to see the top brass fleeing the country if the citizens came out like they did against Mubarak. Above all, they want to save their necks and take some money with them when they do so. Or, they could cut a deal with the new president and parliament for immunity and a nest egg in exchange for giving up their interests.
"the egyptian military" we trained, armed, and paid.
whi is "we"?
@snowdogg, you're right, there's nothing wrong with democracy! It's always the problem how it's interpreted.
Okay, explain how democracy can be misinterpreted.
Egyptians are tired and desperate. They just want a good, honest president who has a good vision, whom they and foreign investors can trust. Candidates like Amr Moussa and Ahmed Shafiq – remnants of the old regime and backed the the military are running as well, to the dismay of the Islamists. Many Egyptians anticipated dramatic economic improvements after last year's uprising but they didn't materialise. Now they are relying on the new president to deliver on the promises of the revolution. The next leader will carry with him the burden of high expectations and has to make serious reforms, particularly to the inefficient subsidy system, which takes up 30% of the national budget. The country's economy depends largely on tourism. Islamists are wary of the consequences were Sharia law imposed that keeps tourists away. It would also be a tricky task for the Islamists to ensure that the poor, who vote for them do not end up worse off.
True, it's tough being an Islamist and liking those tourist dollars and jobs...
there is no contradiction with the islamic sharea and tourism . Unless u mean n u des im?
Show me an arab and i'll show you a possible t*rrorist
What makes you different from AlQaeda or the Taliban?
AlQuaeda and the Taliban have to pray 5 times a day so that allah the magnificent hear them.
She heard you the first time and chose to ignore you.
Sarah Palin, with her amazing grasp of foreign affairs, her multi-lingual capabilities, and her in-depth understanding of the Egyptian culture is the only person who can help establish a democracy in that country.
Great news. I'm all for sending Palin over there to show them the way. Let's just cancel her passport as soon as shee arives in Cairo.
So far all democracy seems to be unleashing is militant anti-semitism and militant anti-Christianity. Compared to what's being unleashed we should be careful what we wish for. For those who don't believe there is going to be a giant clash of civilizations, (between the west and Islam) you are either misinformed, uninformed, or stupid. Even a short study of history and even the smallest word searches reveal western ideals and Islam will NOT co-habitate.
Absolutely agree.
Stop reading Arab news. You are being manipulated and indoctrinated by fools.
You have that right. BC man. Islam is the problem with Egypt and all islamic countries. It is what has brought down the region and their countries. Islam doesn't embrace change or science, any type of freedom.
http://www.Hear-The-Truth.com
Are you kidding me? Islam and Democracy Mix? It is like trying to mix oil and water. In 1947 India and Pakistan became two nations. Guess what India has been a demoratic country since then and Pakistan has been a dictator run nation always. Jesus said do not throw pearls before the swines. Trying to give democracy to Muslims is just as same.
this is just another example of liberal logic.
I once read this combination of bumper stickers
1. Stop the War in Iraq
2. Free Tibet
yeah!!! Let's surrender in Iraq so we can start a war with China.
Arab Spring, right.
What's happening in Egypt isn't anything compared to Syria.
What we did in Iraq is going to start looking real smart, and the historians will decide on legacies.
Its already looking retarded
Who cares what Obama's mouth piece at CNN thinks.
Unrelated to anything. I hate it when people start using words like tsunami and seismic to describe any and everything after a tsunami or earthquake.
Fareed is an Obama supporter and confidant. We know that from his past dealings with the White House. Don't believe me – just look on Wikipedia. So, why this article? So Obama, who supported the overthrow of Mubarak, does not look bad when Egypt becomes radically Muslim and attacks Israel. And therefore he plants articles like this in anticipation of yet another Obama gone wrong. Or did Obama plan for this all long?
JIDF
What is this code for I have no idea what to say but my Imam/Mullah force me to say something?
OOOOh I know and you know what that means b/c you can read about it after you google it. And I knew after I replied to a hate comment by a fellow of yours that you guys are on here. You always post hate comments against Islam and when your argument is countered with logic, then you delete the entire post. I have been catching you guys for years.
Now I am an Arab that doesn't make me muslim so why would I be listening to Imams/Mullahs ????
Wow, an Arab who is not a muslim!
Is there not a fatwa against that?
In general the military or the ruling dictator do not surrender power willingly in a dictatorship form of government. Even if they are voted out by one of those pesky free elections.That is why it is called a dictatorship.
Why is a non-American born "reporter" leading a discussion that our Secretary of State should be handling?
If it's the choice between the muslim brotherhood taking power or it staying with a pretty much non religious military being the mediator I'll take the military in Egypt's case.
that means, the US or the global 1% is the enemy of democracy in egypt and everywhere.
Separate church and state. Its the only way. Christians and Muslims are freaks of nature. Religion is designed by man to control man because in history mankind needed an idea of something greater than them to inspire them to greater good. Now humanity has enough knowledge that we don't need religion to inspire us to have morals. Some things we thought were immoral are now known to be discrimination.
God is very discriminating. He KNOWS what is moral and what is immoral. You just pretend to know.
That isn't their only problem. The male population need reeducating. The mob raping and attacking of woman is the sign of an unstable mentality.
With CNN's superior knowledge of world affairs, they can offer the question, "Is Egypt ready for democracy?" Are we? Perhaps we should remain a republic.
WILBUR: the UAE are Emirates. The last word fall to the Emirs. Go suck a sour lemon you moron
The military will remain. The alternative is the Islamization and radicalization of Egypt. I find it hard to believe how you, Fareed, fail to see such a simple thing.
Mr. Zarkaria which Middle East government are you talking about that has supposedly turned to "democracy" has religiously moderated? Are you referring to Israel? Because that is the only democracy in the Middle East. Are you referring to Turkey? They are not normalizing towards modernism or moderatism, but rather towards Islamism. Are you referring to Iran? They have hardly normalized towards moderatism. Do you have any facts to back that up that Egypt and other "Arab Spring" nations will not turn towards an Islamist (Wahhabist/Salafist) led governments and will not be worse than the current Military Ruled Government?
I have digested the 50 things my doctor doesn't tell me and the 50 things my dentist doesn't tell me, as well as the 50 things my vetinary doesn't tell me. Now I learn the ten things the airlines will nott tell me. Why only ten? I would like to learn what the other 40 are.
There will not be democracy for islamic countries because the nature of their fanatic religion.
why people like u always have a problem with their logical mind?? People are not likely to join a religon the way u describe it with such large numbers. I think some things are hard for u to understand.
The "few" have the guns, bombs and Iranian money to rule.
And forget about the Arab League. They do nothing to help their neigbors.
What "Democracy" in Egypt really means is that the unthinking, Muslim sheep will vote for whoever their clerics imams, and mullahs tell them to, period. Muslims can build democratic societies provided they treat Islam as a matter of personal, private belief and not as a political ideology that seeks to monopolize the public space and regulate every aspect of individual and community life. And the mullahs and clerics will NEVER let that happen. Those who disagree will face the wrath of reilgious police and the fear the mullahs personal militias.
Big Brother needs to spread democracy to the middle east so that he can have a bigger flock of sheeple, that will vote according to the dictates of the ministry of information.
As an American I have the right to vote my media-instilled conscience...And the most powerful military in world history to enforce that right.
Democracy; government of the lowest common denomenator.
Either another dictatorship, or another theocracy. Those are the only two ways for it to go.
Egypt is as lost and hopeless as Syria. Let it go.
The only time someone questions whether a country is ready for democracy is when it might not agree with Israeli or American policies.
Egypt has a long, long way to go before they shed their current corrupt and cancerous skin. Since I lived there for many years, I know that for a fact. Converting and freeing a society from decades of habits and values of corruption is a huge task, one that would make any one wonder, if it's even has a chance for survival. The tip of the iceburg has just been exposed, now the world will witness the real size of Egypt's problems, which is HUGE.
I never understood why there was glee in the West about toppling Egypt's Mubarak. When the military take over it's usually called a coup!
I am glad that elections are taking place in Egypt, the heartland of the Arab world. This democratic movement is proving and showing the world that Islam and Democracy are compatible. soon this democratic movement will spread to other Muslim countries..
I respectfully disagree with you Fareed, I think the military is the only thing standing between Egypt and a Taliban-esque regime.
Also, I have to say I am surprised at all the anti muslim gibberish on here. I thought all the condescending mad whites congregate at foxnews.com
As for Egypt's prospects, just give these guys sometime. They'll figure it out soon. Turkey was in a very similar situation not so long ago and today they are one of the best performing economies in the world. The also enjoy a pretty vibrant democratic regime.
Muslims have contributed so much to the world. While Muslims did not invent the airplane, every time we travel by air, we think of them. Muslims did not invent the metal detector, but every single time we pass through a metal detector, we think of them. While Muslims are not the best sportsmen, we think of them first and foremost as London prepares for the 2012 Olympics. It's the thought which counts.
every hindu, out law must be mind full of law abiding Muslim, hindu's, deniers of truth absolute have no other way but to keep on looking over their shoulders, till they are apprehended by the truth full Muslim.
Combining truthful and muslim in the same sentence is an oxymoron.
Only in hindu filthy Paul Jaundice ism.
Arabs can never have democracy because their dictionary does not have the word "compromise". Neither does the concept of "win/win" exist in their language.
Western democray is based on hindu Judaism, criminal self center ism, secularism, Who wants it, none but hindu gentiles, ignorant slaves of hindu Jew's, filthy goons, hindu pig ism, filthy secularism has no place in domain of truth absolute.
what? so they aren't ready just because he won't be a jew stooge like mubarak who will commit crimes to appease jew maggots?
get real. i hope he kills every jew. not a single fuq was given
Jews destroyed Germany like they are destroying USA now financially until it becomes unbearable to live. What USA is witnessing is same thing which happened to Germans the only difference is one German man Adolf Hitler decided to put a stop to Jew crimes and evils. USA will soon realize what all prior nations realized by then it will be in ruin. Keep kissing Jew arrses see how far that will get you frog face loser paki zakaria.
The United states is NOT a democracy why would we want to push that garbage onto other countries?
What is so great about democracy????
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." – Winston Churchill
"He was as great as a man can be without morality"...Alexis de tocqueville
"Democracy; organized mob rule" Henry Baxley
Having an election is not the same as having a democracy.
There are elections in North Korea and Russia, and no one accuses them of having a democracy.
This has been the Islamic dark ages complete with self-indulgant monarchies, brutal dictators, A fight over the holy land and crusaders, (aka, jihadists). Time for the Islamic renaissance now?
I think we all will find out soon. If they do it won't be easy. We still have a hard time with it in the US.
Sonny is right.
Islamiosity will never accept freedom or democracy.
Sure, the first election is always the model of "democracy". But once someone, Muslim Brotherhood, gets into power watch out......
This is why I Love living in America! "Sepration of Church and State"Religon has its place,but not in the matters of Goverment.
Amen, bratha.
With all due respect to Mr. Fareed Zakaria’s article, the Arab world is not ready for democracy. As long as these countries are dominated by the Islam and military regimes, democracy can’t prevail. It’ll take a miracle for the Islam “to Bow Down” to democracy. Say, a miracle happened; it will take generations of cultural change in order to ready Arab society for democracy. Meanwhile, Mr. Fareed Zakaria and all of us readers can only dream of the day.
I don't pretend to have all the answers but I will say that I truly enjoyed the time I spent in Egypt and feel that their isn't a nicer group of people in the world and the deserve to have a stable government and live a peaceful life.
So Egypt lurches from one bad government to another that will likely be even worse. What's new? There will never be a good government in Egypt or any other Muslim country; Islam and democracy are incompatible.
Ah yes Muslims, people of the Knife, were once a force to be reconed with when they could get along... But today their Tribal Disfunctional society does not allow the cooperation necessary to form a viable Government.... In other words not even a muslim will turn his back to a muslim for fear of being Knifed ..... With this degree of Distrust like the Republican / Democrat Divide we in america will soon be at war with each other like we were in our civil war. Persian, Roman, British, all empires fall in time......Charles Bowen Solomon Stone
all i request is to let EGYPTIAN DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES, NO AGENDA SETTING , PRIMING OR FRAMING BE RESORTED TO .PLEASE ASSIST THE EGYPT IN AN OBJECTIVE MANNER. LET THE TIME AND NATURE DECIDE FOR EGYPT, NATURE DOES THE ULTIMATE JUSTICE.
I think that the following statement by Zakaria is amazingly over simplified: "Egypt is the birthplace of the two biggest political ideas of the modern Arab world. The first being Arab nationalism or Pan-Arabism, the idea of politically unifying Arab countries; and the second being Islamic fundamentalism and this whole idea of political Islam which came from the Muslim Brotherhood and Sayyid Qutb. These were Egyptian ideas which then spread throughout the Arab and then the Islamic world." Qutb did not start the Muslim Brotherhood and neither of them started Islamic fundamentalism. Salafism began earlier than Islamism and did not come out of Egypt. Islamism and Salafism are both examples of Islamic fundamentalism that have been politically effective. The Shia fundamentalism of Iran obviously did not originate in Egypt. Pan-Arabism has been an abject failure. What is Zakaria's definition of a "big idea"?
Koran and democracy CANNOT co-exist.
Test
Name one country that is a Democracy.
If democracy is established, Egypt will become an Islamic state. Then the fun begins. Democracy being fine for us, we have been trying to convert the rest of the world to be as we. In several Arab counries Bin Laden would have won free election by a landslide.. And free elections gave us Obama. Where is the answer?
The United States is not a Democracy.
So?
You implied in your comment that we are a democracy.
is too
For the first time, Fareed Zakaria is 100% wrong. Egypt cannot survive without its Army strong. Egypt is the only country in the World, that will NOT be invaded by a Foreign country – because of its strong Army. Imagine, if the US stops helping Israel? Israel will not stand a chance against. Israel!
To Egyptians and to most of the Muslim world, their lives are ruled first and foremost by the koran, whose democratic values are non-existent, at best.
Well at least they have something going for them.
Koran and democracy CANNOT co-exist, period.
Freedom and Democracy cannot coexist.
/* But over time, I think that religiosity will be moderated, as it has in almost every Muslim country that has turned to democracy. Because given time, people realize: they really want good government, they want jobs, they want economic welfare, and the mullahs aren't always able to deliver those things. */
Bingo. My thoughts exactly. The big question is: can Egypt make it out of this transition period with enough freedom to give people the ability to recognize when the system isn't working?
I cant think of one country in the world that is a democracy can you?
France, the U.S., the U.K., Israel, Iraq, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Turkey, .......the list is a large one.
The United States is NOT e Democracy, neither are the other ones.
Hey idiots, the West (nor anywhere else) doesn't have a single functioning 'democracy' but we do live in many 'Republics'. The difference between the two forms of government are as vast as those between Communism & Theocracies.
Democracies exist at the whim of the masses, Republics exist by the rules of their laws, many of which cannot be changed. (i.e.- USA Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence assertion that 'certain inalienable rights which are given by their Creator")
Republic is rule of law....democracy is mob rule. The Martin-Zimmerman affair proves we live in a Democracy masqurading as a republic.
You have a point unfortunately. Democracy is a sure way to an Oligarchy.
Democracy is a myth.
Egypt / first free election / embrace the image of the beast.
--------------------------–
"Egyptians are voting in their first free presidential election, 15 months after ousting Hosni Mubarak in the Arab Spring uprising."
ref.: BBC News – Egyptians vote in landmark presidential election
Their old way, their previous way, of life has died and now they embrace another way of life, which they never did before.
They protested for, fought for, died for, and overturned their ruler for the belief in freedom of rights, freedom of religion, equality of rights....the way of the leader of the free world.
They now live by the way of the beast and have received its mark on their forehead.
Daniel wrote of this...Daniel 11: 42-43...
"...He (the last king of the north) shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape (survive the pressure).
His power (his way of life/ his belief/ his god of fortresses) will be over what was previously precious to the Egyptians, also the Libyans (nations of north Africa) and Ethiopians (nations of the land of Cush) shall follow him (his way of life) at his heels."
And soon , the glorified way of "freedom" and "equality of rights" will be declared as the "one true and good way of life" for all mankind....this belief will be placed between all nations and above the Holy Mountain of the One True Creator God and His Son The Christ...
...denying their Preeminence.
Ignore all the right wing fascist islamophobes who frequent these forums saying democracy in egypt wont work,
Democracy (though not clearly defined as to what it is) can work in Egypt, and will work if the Army lets the elected government take control.
Racist pigs think that democracy is only when you vote for what they think is "right and proper".
Democracy is Mob rule, why would anyone be in favor of that? The United States is NOT a democracy nor have we ever been a democracy why would we want that for someone else? can you name any country that currently has a democracy? No because there is none.
fareed is a pig and all muslims are pigs. kill them all
wish of a hindu, pig from hindered gutter artificial country called india in his hindu filthy soul, desire, never to be fulfilled till elimination of their hinduism criminality and hindu's, criminals.
oh yes, and iran will be honest and give up its drive for nuclear weapons too.
uh huh...suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure......
do you really think the average person is that stupid fareed?
Do you REALLY think that it was a good idea, or sent a good message when our Idiot-in-Chief invited the phuqing Muslim Brotherhood to the WHITE HOUSE???!!!
Good luck. Seriously.
Egypt may be the heart and soul, but Saudi Arabia is the wallet. Where the Saudis go, so does every Muslim nation.
If Egypt votes for an extremist, or an ultra-conservative fanatic, won't this put them back to square one?
If they vote for someone who is opposed to women's rights, to educating females, or a theocracy, won't this defeat their hopes of freedom?
The real obsticle to democracy in Egypt is Islam.
I'll beleive Egypt is democratic when a man can publicly convert from Islam to Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Wicca, Athieism, or any other religion he chooses without fear of death, imprisonment, or vigilante violence. Until that happens, "freedom" and "democracy" will be nothing more than window-dressing on whatever pathetic regime is calling the shots.
I think Fareed Zakaria should get his facts straight, you cannot achieve a democracy with an Islamic government, Islam is a form of dictatorship, my prayers are for Egyptians to elect a liberal civilian leader and save Egypt. there is no moderate Islamic fundamentalist, he does not exist.
with great respect to Mr. Fareed Zakaria which I assume he is a Muslim I could not continue reading the rest of his article as soon as he started blaming the army for being so opposing to democracy, I see his support to bring the muslims brotherhood into power to take the Middle-East back to the 4th Century. I would like to educated you a little bit, for your knowledge 90% of the Educated and Intelectual Muslims in Egypt who represent 15% of the population do not support the muslims brotherhod or the Sharia Law that is why they are voting one of the army to the Presidency in Egypt if you read arabic please go to http://www.egnews.net and read the comments of the Egyptian people. Cheers
The real obstacle to Egypt's democracy is Islam.
One can never, ever reconcile Islam with women's rights, universal suffrage or Western democracy.
Oh, one more thing, what Western Democracy? If you are talking about America, we are a Republic not a Democracy. I find everyone thinking America is a democracy a joke. IF WE WERE, we wouldn't have polictical parties because everyone would be THINKING on their own and basising their vote on what they believe. IF WE WERE, every vote counts and there would be no Electorial College to elect the President. Get it right, please.
One obstacle is Islam. It specifies a government and that is not democracy. End of story.
The article is a joke anyway. What does political parties have to do with democray anyway? Even America is not a democracy, we are a REPUBLIC. So why do we keep saying we need to give other countries Democracy when we don't do it ourselves? Even our "democratic ways" are controlled by small groups of people.
President = Electoral Colege
Senator, House of Representative = Political Party
We were a Republic. Now we are governed by bankers and the ultrarich. Open your eyes.
There are only 3 things you need to know about Egypt.
1) They have 81 million people.
2) They import 40% of their food.
3) They are running out of money very quickly.
Nothing else matters. They can vote for anything they want. They are doomed.
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