Editor's Note: Soner Cagaptay is a senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and a GPS contributor. You can find all his blog posts here. Tyler Evans is a research assistant at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. The views expressed in this article are solely those of Soner Cagaptay and Tyler Evans.
By Soner Cagaptay and Tyler Evans, Special to CNN
Soner Cagaptay
Thursday marks the two-year anniversary of the 2010 flotilla incident, a crisis on the high seas that triggered a tailspin in Turkish-Israeli relations.
In the aftermath of the incident, Turkey recalled its ambassador and demanded an apology from Israel as well as reparations for the nine slain activists. Ankara even announced that its warships would escort future missions to Gaza.
Attempts to mend fences have stalled over the issue of an Israeli apology. With Turkey willing to accept nothing less than a full apology, and Israel for the moment unwilling to accommodate this demand, the two sides seem to be at an impasse.
Yet below the surface, not all is grim in Turkish-Israeli relations. Remarkably, economic ties have been flourishing between the two countries.
Turkish-Israeli economic ties took off in the late-1990s as part of a growing strategic convergence. Deepening trade was underpinned by a series of bilateral agreements opening Turkish and Israeli markets to each other. Notable agreements included a free trade agreement (1996), a double-taxation prevention treaty (1997), and a bilateral investment treaty (1998). These agreements ushered in an era of improving political and economic ties. Trade jumped from $449 million in 1996 to more than $1.2 billion in 2002. This remarkable acceleration continued with bilateral trade increasing 14.6% per year, on average, from 2002 to 2008.
Surprisingly, the diplomatic crisis has not translated into an economic crisis. Take for instance, a boycott announced by several Israeli grocery chains in the wake of the flotilla incident. Despite the assertions on the part of these retailers, Turkish export of vegetable products has remained steady since 2007, and exports of prepared foodstuffs, beverages and tobacco doubled between 2007 and 2011. From 2010 to 2011, trade increased by 30.7%, far surpassing the growth that occurred during the heyday of Turkish-Israeli ties.
Still, defense ties have been hard-hit. Following the flotilla incident, Turkey froze at least a dozen defense projects with Israel, including a $5 billion deal for tanks and an $800 million sale for patrol aircraft and an early-warning radar plane.
Despite these bruises, economic ties seem destined to deepen even further in the long term.
For starters, all the aforementioned trade and investment treaties remain solidly in effect. Secondly, neither side seems eager to disrupt the trend of booming bilateral trade. In the aftermath of the flotilla incident, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced his intention to cut all relations with Israel, including trade. But Ankara rapidly corrected the statement, adding that commercial ties would not be downgraded. Similarly, when an Israeli investment house announced its plans to divest in Turkey, the head of the Israeli Chamber of Commerce urged firms to refrain from any actions that might hurt Turkish-Israeli business ties.
Q&A: Explaining the tension between Turkey, Israel
The mutual reluctance to rupture trade ties is understandable, especially in light of the global economic climate. After all, both countries owe much of their growth in recent years to buoyant exports, a large portion of which were sold in European markets. This means that both countries are vulnerable to a sluggish European recovery. Greater bilateral trade could pick up some of the slack, especially on the Israeli side, where Turkey constituted Israel’s sixth-largest export market in 2011 and could climb the ranks as Israel’s traditional markets remain anemic.
Israel is important for Turkey as well. In terms of volume, the Israeli market is small, but it presents significant opportunities for Turkish producers to move up the value chain. In March, the Turkish Industry and Business Association identified Israel as a priority investment partner, underlining the advantages of coupling Turkey’s land and labor with Israel’s innovation economy. A telling example of this potential can be found in Bursa, where Turkish manufacturers are assembling electric cars as part of a venture with the Israeli company Better Place. Thanks to this venture, Turkey is now producing its first electric car with technology that would not have been easy for the Turks to develop on their own.
There is also a political angle that could bode well for bilateral ties. Faced with an increasingly volatile Middle East, some Israelis are concluding that they are better off rebuilding ties with Turkey, even if this does not mean going back to the honeymoon years of the 1990s. Meanwhile, Turkey faces a popular uprising in Syria that holds the potential of spilling over its borders. Along with downward-spiraling ties with Iraq, not to mention regional competition against Iran, this suggests that Israel is perhaps not the biggest fish to fry.
Turkey and Israel seem to have potential for a fresh start. Even if the pair continues to diverge on certain core political issues, both seem to secretly prepare for the day they can make up again. As always, the flag follows the money.
The views expressed in this article are solely those of Soner Cagaptay and Tyler Evans.
© 2012 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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Israel should apologize for the totally unprovoked attack on the Mavi Marmara and end its persecution of Palestinians, then we'll talk about a "fresh start".
weel said.
The Turkish-Israeli relationship has its ups and downs. The erstwhile foreign minister Gul was on a mission in Jerusalme in 2005 to repair the ties after a chill last year over Israel's crackdown in Gaza.
Tensions escalated in May 2004, when Prime Minister Erdogan condemned an Israeli raid in the Rafah area of the southern Gaza Strip as "state terror". Before the row Turkey was a close regional ally of Israel. They signed a military co-operation agreement in 1996. Turkey could press for an apology from Israel if it insisted. Indeed who benefits more from a "fresh start"? By making up with Turkey, Israel feels less isolated in this hostile neighbourhood.
Delivering supplies to the enemy during a war is very much a provocation. According to te international law any sovereign state has the right to stop, inspect and even SINK any vessel delivering supplies to the enemy during a war.
According to you people of Gaza is your enemy? In the international waters Israel committed an act of piracy. They acted like pirates in the cost of Somalia. IDF obviously doesn't know how to do crowd control. They shoot first and ask questions later. I guess that’s how they disperse Palestinians every day but security forces around the world do this differently. Maybe IDF can take a course or two on that subject. Anyone with a right mind would not support Israel's position. Of course a biased mind can blur the facts and come up with whole bunch of excuses. Along the way Israel lost a key partner. Not to forget that Turkey saved Jews when they were prosecuted by other counties, standing up against the aggressors throughout the history. In the recent past they act like a mediator between Israel and neighboring countries. Loosing Turkey is not only loosing contracts and money. It’s also losing a welcoming friend when things get tough for the Jews.
@bosbogaz: I don't think that Turkey or any of its supporters have any right to accuse IDF or anyone else for their methods. Turkey is still oppressing Kurds, occupying Cyprus, refuses to recognize the Armenian and Pontian genocide, ... Should I go on?
@chris... nice try but Germans are the one refuses the armenian and pontiann genocides. germans planed and sent Armenians to syria not turks. as a result of german relocation plan , many armenians lost their live. so please go on ...
There is no war despite your attempts to twist it all and show as such. There is Israeli violence, you kill scores of innocent civilians, they kill tens in response to your killing of thousands. You are brainwashed as to you can do anything, but your actions have consequences. You don't have the right to inspect or sink anything, get real. You attacked an international aid mission, carrying nothing but aid which was confirmed prior to departure, ships were filled with tens of European nationalities including German MPs and European journalists. You, as usual, violently attacked and killed 9 unarmed civilians, which you try to justify. West does not have your mindset, you can't explain murdering innocent unarmed civilians no matter how hard you try. You are worse than middle eastern barbarians, your lies and propaganda will not always save you, people are waking up and seeing things as they are.. the real face of Israel is out in the open.
Gaza clearly has hostile intentions towards Israel, Turkey has no business involving itself in Israel's internal affairs. Erdogan is a tool.
@arek – Please go on. What you are saying is really interesting. So the Germans "refused" (what was that "refuses") the Armenians and Pontians to send them to Syria and "clean" Turkey of those worthless races? I suppose they were afterwards planning to do the same thing to the Turks but the Turks, heroically fought them off and saved themselves and rescued all the Armenians and Pontians that hadn't perish on their long walk to Syria. Is that the "true" story? Please enlighten us...
The plain unadulterated truth is the fact that regardless of seemingly uncondition US support Israel is the World's foremost 'Undeclared Terrorist State" by any objective criteria! No nation would ever be allowed to evade that of a Terrorist Rogue State if it were to murder unarmed Civilian Activists in International Waters of all places. The 76 Million Turks are never likely to forgive the fanatical Zionist State and the ball is now 100% in Israel's court PERIOD
Bulent... According to te international law any sovereign state has the right to stop, inspect and even SINK any vessel delivering supplies to the enemy during a war. Further (again, according to international law) fighting back when attacked is NOT terrorism.
You see, terrorism is DELIBERATE attacking of non-combatants with political goals... Israel does not fit this definition. If you disagree you should PROVE that it does. Good luck!
By "persecution of Palestinians" you would like Israel to simply roll over and stop defending against brutal terrorist and rocket attacks on civilians?
@Chris...Next time you are caught speeding, you can tell the judge that the other cars were speeding as well. I'm sure judge would see your point. Like I said before, a normal mind would look at the Mavi marmara incident and see what's in front of them. Bringing in the other issues to justify your actions is what you do when you are guilty.
BTW Just to put you in your place in foreign affairs, you can criticize Turkish relations with Kurds when Israel has a Palestinian descend president. Until that time please leave this stuff to people who has brains bigger than McDonald’s chicken nugget.
bosbogaz... Next time you're caught NOT speeding you'll tell the judge that you DID NOT violate any laws or rules.... Again, it is PERFECTLY LEGAL for any state to stop, inspect and even SINK any vessel delivering supplies to the enemy during a war. Even in international waters. By boarding the "flotilla" Israel DID NOT violate any laws or rules.
Except, Israel is ALWAYS caught speeding. Stop acting like the victim and the innocent side, you are the violent and attacking side. What you did is not legal or anything, your attempts to justify your actions is pathetic. That is why the entire world condemned you after what you did, nobody sided with you, you were isolated, not even US government dared to support you, everyone took stance with Turkey after their citizens were murdered. The entire human race tells you that you are wrong, you still think that you are right.
@boosbogaz – no need to make this personal but I understand that given no arguments you resort to insults. I have to admit though the "chicken nugget sized brain" made me lough. Where did you copy this from? Apologies for insulting your motherland but it's plain facts I have been stating. Turkey has problems with all its neighbors because it's a regional bully guilty of numerous atrocities including genocides, ethnic cleansing, oppresion of human rights and free speech (even for its own citizens), etc etc etc. And, it has not been exactly the democratic paradigm to follow: just think of the 43 (or was it 44... sorry, just 41) military coups you had in your recent history... Now, seriously, the Mavi Marmara crowd was a bunch of troublemakers going to Gaza not to help but to defy Israel. I am pretty sure that if your daughter was dating one of them you'd beat her up and lock her in her room for a considerable amount of time (or is that only sth the Turks in Germany do? Or just the Kurds -sorry- mountain Turks?).
@Marek: You are very wrong about Armenians. They have contributed much to the world, in fact so much that folks like you have been thriving simply by capitalizing on their way o life and achievements. I'll just mention sth that you poor ignorant are probably enjoying frequently: "Turkish" coffee, and "Turkish" pizza
@Chris, chicken nugget comment wasn't an insult, it was a fact. You sound like you've never debated a topic before. You are all over the places.
No. Israel will not apologize; simply because they have nothing to apologize FOR.
The interception was lawful under int'l law. The ship was warned. Israelis started with non lethal weapons.
Turkey has threatened to escort future ships – but they know better than to follow through on the threat because Israel will blow Turkish ships out of the water, and rightfully so.
If the Ship wanted, TRULY wanted to bring aid to the Pals, they could have, and should have, docked in Egypt, OR Israel through proper channels. This was a publicity stunt, nothing more.
Israel should have just sunk the flotilla, rather than landing soldiers.
And there is no such thing as a "Palestinian." They are Egyptian, Lebanese, and Jordanians that had their citizenship taken from them after their countries lost (again) when they attacked Israel.
Sure, just as soon as Turkey apologizes for is slaughter of Armenians and ends its occupation of Cyprus.
Turkey should apologize for allowing a ship that intended to run a blockade leave from a Turkish port! They had no business trying to go directly to Gaza, which is in a state of conflict with Israel. It is only Erdogan that is to blame for this nonsense. Israel doesn't supply the Kurds, so why should the Turks think it alright to supply Gaza? Turkey should not be taking sides in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. That's not how friendly nations treat each other!
Turkish government had nothing to do with the flotillas, it was an international mission organized by non-government groups and ships had tens of different nationalities from all over Europe. The first port of leave was in Turkey, next one was designated to be Greece, just because they are close to the destination. Israeli government attacked the leading ship and murdered 9 Turkish citizens which the entire world condemned and sided with Turkey, and naturally the only side that owes an apology is Israel. Get real, you can't turn the table around no matter how hard you try to twist what took place.
Beren... Delivering supplies to the enemy during a war is very much a provocation. According to te international law any sovereign state has the right to stop, inspect and even SINK any vessel delivering supplies to the enemy during a war.
Israelis soldiers attempted to do just that, to INSPECT these ships. They were UNARMED when they've "attacked" the humanitarians on the Mavi Marmara and it was "just an accident" that the Israelis collided with metal rods, sticks and knives the humanitarians carried...
Beren- That's absurd! There were Turkish nationals on that boat and the boat left from a Turkish port. Turkey controls it's borders and has to regulate the actions of it's people with regard to another nation. Israel's blockade was announced and is in fact legal. Israel had the right to stop those boats from landing in Gaza. And, isn't it strange that the other boats had no injuries but they did on the lead boat? Isn't it obvious that the passengers on that boat were shot for physically resisting? All of this is Turkey's fault. There wouldn't have been an incident if Turkey prevented that boat from leaving it's waters. All the blood is on Turkey and Erdogan's hands.
It's also a fact that Israeli- Turkish relations were good until Erdogan came into office. Before he was elected Turkey had a good chance to join the EU. Now, they don't want to have anything to do with them. Business wise-relations are still good, the Turks are more interested in business than re-establishing their empire. The only problem between Israel and Turkey is Erdogan. Erdogan is controlling the media, imprisoning journalists, trying to root out secularists from the Government and turning Turkey more towards other Muslim states. They are not practicing nor exporting Western Style Democracy, politically they are going backwards.
As long as Israelis think that GOD is their real-estate broker, there will be more & more conflict & war in the area.
Rejoice, Mike! Israelis DO NOT think that GOD is their real-estate broker. They DO think that the Jews have no less right to live in the area than the Arabs do... but WHO is the real-estate broker for the Arabs, in your opinion?
Again, you may ignore the Biblical promise giving the Holy Land to the Jews if you wish. Can you SHOW THE LEGAL DEED giving it to the Arabs? Please?
There's no like button, but if there was i would hit it.
oh great. then it didn't attach to the right comment. this one is good, but it wasn't the one i was trying to reply to. i don't like the boards that use this format.
Like... Can you just TELL US WHAT YOU LIKE?
unprovoked? what's in that hookah you are puffing on? stopping ships carryng materials that can be used to wage war on israel is a legal basis for a blockade. get off your palestinian soapbox for a minute and see the lay of the land.
Stop the illegal occupation of Cyprus by Turkey!
Cyprus for Cypriots!
How is that decision working out for them, enough rope he would hang himself or at least get is punters gassed. He was out of his depth then and he is out of his depth now. If he wants to see magic he would better off going to Vegas to see Copperfield.
There will be no fresh start as long as Netenyahu and Erdogan are in power. Netenyahu for being a bigoted and heartless thug, and Erdogan for inciting devout simpletons to get killed for political gain.
What exactly would a "NON-bigoted" and a "NON-heartless" Netanyahu's successor do differently, in your opinion?
All of the above comments make me thing you relish in conflicts. If so, maybe you should all try out some alternative sports to cushion down your misdirected testesteron. Whatever you benefit from a conflict I must say there is no place for unsolved conflicts (or revenues from their promotion) in the current civil life of the global world.
Deniz boro... You did not answer my (pretty specific) question: What exactly would a "NON-bigoted" and a "NON-heartless" Netanyahu's successor do differently, in your opinion?
What can a Netanyahu successor do you ask? How about abiding with international laws for a start. Stop the ethnic cleansing, land grabs and the 'apartheid' system within Israel.
erks... Israel DOES NOT violate any international laws. If you disagree please SHOW THE LAWS Israel violated but the Arabs COMPLIED WITH. Further, THERE IS NO "ethnic cleansing, land grabs and the 'apartheid' system within Israel." Every fourth Israeli citizen is and Arab, the number of Arabs living in Israel as full fledged citizens INCREASED TEN TIMES since 1948 and ALL Israeli citizens have the very same equal rights regardless of their race, ethnicity, religion or gender. Further, back in 1947 about 12% of the land in Palestine was privately owned by the Arabs. All these lands are still owned by their legal Arab owners. Most of the privately owned land in Israel belong to the Arabs.
Israel violates international laws more than any other nation on earth surface. As an Israeli state-paid propagandist, your pathetic attempts to justify actions of Israel and dispute every criticism is always destined to fail. Those who want an example should search online: "Israel fake passports to see the condemnation of international community of Israeli unlawful acts, there are countless of them. Israel is a threat to world peace, Israelis are responsible for the division and polarization of the people, you have created religious clashes to benefit from it, you have made Americans eliminate your enemies and still try to initiate yet another war.
I do not think Netanyahu is a bigot "in your terms of definition". He just has to play along as a politician. And maybe his alternatives are much worst in being GLOBAL (as the trend of the age does)
The direct answer to your question "THINKER23" is that he can not do anything else without nailing his own POLITICAL coffin. Being the MAN IN BETWEEN" is the hardest and proves stamina.
But I do not sincerely believ TALK will solve the overall Israel problem globally untill all of the WORLD WAR II generatiom and their children passes away.
Marek... If Israel violated international laws you and your friends would be able to SHOW TE LAWS Israel violated, would not you? The very fact that you CAN NOT support your claims by any factual evidence makes it perfectly clear WHO IS THE LIAR here.
deniz boro... I've asked a pretty simple and stgraightforward question, "What exactly would a "NON-bigoted" and a "NON-heartless" Netanyahu's successor do differently, in your opinion?" and I still did not see any answer. Again, I DID NOT ask about Netanyahu. I've asked about his hypothetical "NON-bigoted" and a "NON-heartless" successror and his possible actionsyou would like to see. What exactly you DID NOT understand in my question above?
Yeah.
IF ONLY Israel would give back ALL the land from '67.
IF ONLY Israel would give back Jerusalem.
IF ONLY Israel would allow the right of return of 3 million.
IF ONLY Israel does ALL these things, there would be peace...right ? Says who ? LOL, says YOU armchair quarterbacks. Hammas hasnt said that. Hezbollah hasnt said it. Neither has Iran and Syria, and Lebanon. So, IF ONLY Israel does ALL that, what do they get in return ?
Not peace.
What they DO get, is indefensible borders from enemies who vow for nothing less than Israel's total destruction.
What they DO get, is bringing 3 million enemies that much closer geographically, and 3 million roaches breeding at 6x the pace of Israelis...so, the Pals get "Palestine" and, in 30 years, get Israel too.
Land for peace always works, just as the Cherokee \sarc
In summary, it seems both Turkish and Israel commercial parties do not heed any government action for any" so called" crises. Most probably these are aged enterprises which have some experiance in the past Turkish-Israel trade and cultural relations and requirements beyond political and ideological trends and issues. Politicians may cross their fingers and say " Cross" fo some time for whatsoever reason. But this does not change the location, condition and needs of a region even if they generally believe for some time. Israel and Turkey are natural partners geographically. And moreover culturally. They have a long past history as well.
Turkish government is strong (with some internal diversions) but Israel government is a coalition. This naturally brings in more by-plays than the region can bear. The Region can not stand such indecision currently.
Turkey and Israel should leave behind some differences for an agreed term and work together to solve the regional problems. Else they only serve to weak out each other; which is not good globally....Is not good for trade....Is not good for the peace of people.
But some politicians may bow so low as to start up a conflict just to keep ITS position.
All of this started in Davos. The BBC translator translating the words did a mistake (I shall not comment more on this). Please go back and refer.
I sincerely hope the Turks don't abandon the Palestinians by suddenly making amends with the Israeli fascists. (And to think they cry so long and hard about how "brutal" Hitler was to them, breaking my heart Israel. It's too bad we weren't smart enough to let Hitler finish the job, the Palestinians would have a much better life and the Middle East would be peaceful...but the powers that be surely wouldn't want that...)
Prophecies..., you just don't get it. the world doesnt care about you roaches. palestinian lives are worthless. Israel can destroy all the arabs with a push of a button and there is nothing you can do about it. i know, truth hurts, go cry your self to sleep.
The world would have been much better off if your mother didn't reproduce, you vile genocidal murderer. And I'm sure all those other conflicts around the world involving Islam – Chechnya, Somalia, Darfur, Kashmir, Kurdistan, etc., etc. would then be peaceful, too.
There is no Islamic conflict in any Kurdish Territory. But there was the genocide the Ottomans & Saddam waged against Kurds.
Ambez... The Ottomans (this is how you call people of Turkey today?) and Saddam (apparently, Saddam was the ONLY Iraqi guilty of doing it) were... Buddhists?
Good job Jews, continue to spread your propaganda to create more religious clash to benefit from it. You have done a great job dividing and polarizing the human kind, it benefits you but harms the rest of the world.. which means that the world would be a much better place without you.
@ Marek – You sound like a Nazi sympathizer to me !! Coming from a family of Holocaust survivors, I can only wish one thing upon you – may you burn in hell and then go salute your heroes, Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler, you piece of sh1t !!!!
IDF Soldier: Go away and take your holocaust bs with you, you've made enough use of your stories to benefit from them, not as many people fall for your propaganda anymore. Nobody gives a crap to where you come from, who do you think you are? They should have all died so that we wouldn't have your ugly personality with us today. You and your so-called "survivors" will all burn in hell while Adolf watches heaven, Germans are perfectionists so they just had to get rid of you parasites.
@Marek. you an anti Semite, racist German piece of sh:t. i understand you are mad because stupid germans got their a$$ kicked by civilized world . germans are losers . .
Show me ONE war in world history that the Germany WON. NONe.
Nobody has to be pro-semite, the entire world is anti-semite for very good reasons, you earned it with your actions. When people are anti-criminal, criminals do not ask why they are disliked or discriminated against. You are living in denial, people do not hate you for no reason, change and they might eventually recognize and respond to it, you might take place within decent nations.
Udo... Can you elaborate? Can you explain the actions of the Jews EVERY Jew is responsible for?
Prophesies… The Palestinians have much better life TODAY than other Arabs living in Syria, Sudan, Egypt, Jordan and other Arab states where no Jews are allowed. Israeli Arabs live better than their brethren in ANY Arab state. This means that Arabs have better lives with some Jews around, genius.
Let's see:
Israel sends millions of dollars of aid to the Pals each month.
Israel built and operates their electric grid and water grid.
Israel offers them FREE medical care.
As to the blockade of the Israel/Gaza border – Most of you ignore that there IS, in fact, an Egypt/Gaza border. Israel's blockade could not work unless Egypt also blockades, which they do – where is the outrage against Egypt ? Where is the difference ? (none).
I would have loved to disregard you as a TROUBLE MAKER. However, this is an article intended to look into some positive feelings betwean peoples. Your choice of words have no place here PROP-E-CIES
just think how peaceful Iraq, syria, libya, yemen and egypt, somalia, afghanistan and nigeria are without jews getting in the way of shia killing sunnis and sunnis killing shia; not getting in the way of muslims bombing christians; of acid throwers and well poisoners. pretty peaceful eh? what a stupid post by prophelactic
What no one has commented about is the obvious policy of the Turkish Islamist government. It is the policy of Erdogan to move further from the secular western type government ( on which Turkey was founded by Attaturk ) to a religious based government. Turkey now sees its influence in the Muslim world not in West( this is especially so after the European Union rightly rejected overtures of Turkey to join). Turkey was distancing itself from Israel before the incident, to insure that it was seen as a " Muslim country". Obviously the way to build bona fides with Muslim countries is to oppose Israel. By encouraging a confrontation , rather than befriending Israel their influence in the middle east rose , with out hurting even commercial ties to Israel. This was a clear calculated act by Turkey.They knew if they allowed armed radicals on the" relief" boat for Gaza violence would result, and it did. Turkey got just what it wanted.They can't be seen as compromising with Israel as their position with Muslim countries will be jeopardized.
You are right, but Erdogan's actions are not independent from external events. The civilian casualties in Lebanon and the Gaza strip were absolutely appalling and exceeded any justification.
erks... I'm not sure how it is on YOUR planet but on planet Earth people (even civilians) are being killed in ANY war. Especially if terrorists and other militants are using their cheering supporters as human shields.
As long as the majority of Palestinians are willing the war against Israel to continue it will continue and more Palestinians will be killed. When the number of dead Palestinians will satisfy those still alive they will ask for peace.
There are WARS and there are atrocities which are tried to be covered by lies. Israeli case falls under the latter. You kill thousands of civilians, they seek revenge and manage to kill tens in return, then you cry and act like the victim. You are far far far far far from innocent, you initiate it all. There is no war, there are people suffering in your hands, you try to turn the table around with lies and propaganda but people see things as they are more and more.. that is why entire Europe hates you.. entire world hates you except for US government because you bully their politicians through your lobbies and threaten them with your votes.
@Dianne you only think that because you live in an echo chamber of similar-thinking people. There is increasing sympathy for Israel in Europe (just not in the Muslim communities) and a large majority of US people support Israel for cultural and religious reasons and therefore US politicians support Israel, NOT because of some all-powerful lobby.
gotta love the palestinian mantra: "woe is me, woe is me, we sent one rocket, they sent back three. how unfair, i must despair, oh woe is me, woe is me, everyone but us is responsible for our misery". chanted by "J erks and his jerk buddies as they launch rockets and than run and hide behind their women and children so they can later whine about civilian casualties! I have an idea, stop sending rockets from gaza and lebanon!
The growing rift between Israel and Turkey has nothing to do with the Mavi Marmara or an apology; instead it has to do with Turkey positioning itself as a "champion" of the Muslim world, and with Turkey's plans of being a regional energy player being diminished by dubious pipeline plans and the discovery of world-class deposits of natural gas and oil in the Eastern Mediterranean that are not in Turkey's EEZ, but in Israel's (and Lebanon's, and Cyprus', and Syria's, and Greece's...) The Mavi Marmara incident is being used as domestic political fodder in Turkey to keep the animosity against Israel alive. How did the esteemed Mr. Captagay miss this in his report? PS–the Israelis will apologize for Mavi Marmara just as soon as Turkey apologizes for the Armenian Genocide, the invasion and continued occupation of Cyprus, the persecution of its ethnic minorities, the bombing of Kurdish civilians, the jailing of over 100 journalists, etc.......
Thanks for mentioning the Armenian Genocide Paul – its the 500 pound gorilla that everyone, everyone, is trying to avoid, yet is indispensable to any kind of rational discussion, and resolution to the myriad problems in the region. When someone is bleeding from a gunshot wound, you do not just put a band-aid on it and say "problem solved" – you have to dig deeper to the root of the problem; sometimes it is deep, difficult to get to and painful, but it has to be done. When the world rightfully deals with the Armenian Genocide, then the road to better places can begin.
Armenian genocide is as bogus as a three-dollar bill. Heating and serving the same nonsense over and over again will not take you charlatans anywhere, you Armenians have made fame as cheaters, deceivers, fraudsters already and you are just adding to it. You will be known as such to the entire world with your attempts to turn the table around after what you have done to Turks back at the time, you are pathetic liars.
i thought you were being sarcastic until i read the ending of your name. what a beggar nation
Turkey threatens Israel, France, Cyprus, and just about every country you can think of.
Turkey is the only member of NATO that threatens other NATO members.
Turkey continually threatens the EU.
Am I the only one who sees that Turkey's main way of behaving is to threaten? Think about it.
Turkey is unique in this way. Turkey issues more threats than the nuts in North Korea.
Your post is as far from reality as it gets, you are pathetic. It's international politics, Turkey has more than its share of issues and, as an enemy of Turks, you may try to show them as the faulty side at all. But your post is beyond ridiculous, Turkey is a respected member of the western world and among the major contributing members of those organizations. They did not gain respect and become a G20 member flourishing economy by threatening "every country one can think of", it's quite the opposite. Nutcase nations such as North Korea are isolated and have the worst economies of the world, how did Turkey do it so quietly? Again, you are pathetic, can we call you Bozo the clown?
Death is like a homecoming for Turks. remember that.
Israel needs Turkey much more than Turkey needs Israel. Israel needs to get over its arrogant stuck up ways and start thinking pragmatically or else it will have no one left other than AIPAC-controlled USA
oooooooooooo "arrogant and stuck up"!................ more like confident and proud.................... only little girls like "sucks" cant tell the difference.
Once upon a time Jews lived in palestine. ( although many nations lived there , once upon a time ) . If this argument can legalize Israel occupation ? So Why Ethopian jews can not come in Israel ? In this way , Human beings has accepted idiot , foolish argument to gain their greed . AMERICA is slave of Israel , thats why they support and American citizen are logical in the cases and area that fulfill their greed but stupid in judging humanity . America should stop supporting terrorist Israel .
Ethiopian Jews as well as anyone else can come to YOUR HOME even if you do not like it. If you disagree with this idea you should realize that other people (and peoples) have the right to decide who can and who can not come to THEIR homes as well.
ethiopian jews have been welcomed in israel. before you engage in a racist tirade, might be best to put down the hookah, leave the islamic center and read something besides the PLO bulletins on the convenience store bulletin board.
haha, good one man. They really have no clue do they.
I'll be smiling when the Dome of the Rock is destroyed, and the 3rd temple is built.
poor turks are brainwashed by their fascist government. Screw Ataturk too.
As an Armenian, you are in no position to criticize anyone. Who do you think you are? Armenians have never proven themselves to be anything other than cheaters and deceivers, your neighbourhoods are centers of fraud, such as Glendale – well known by Californians. Your nation has always been in African standards, yet you have always blamed others for your failures. You are shameless charlatans. Don't flatter yourself, nobody will take you seriously.
Thinker23 is a Israeli state-paid propagandist. He, and a few others, infiltrate countless articles every day to post their lies and propaganda to fool as many clueless third parties as possible. He attacks anyone who rightfully criticizes Israel for its violence and violations of international law. He also posts on articles related to other nations as determined by Israeli foreign policy as part of their attacking, threatening, and bullying tactic. He has no credibility whatsoever, please be aware and ignore his posts.
Please show us this proof that a random commenter on a CNN blog is a paid Israeli informant. If not, please go back to your basement, type your anger towards the Jews, and eat another hot pocket
Vlad... The very fact that "Dianne", "Marek" and their ilk are unable to produce anything better than plain lies, insults and empty accusations is their admission of defeat. Lies and accusations in a debate are similar to a (dirty) white banner of surrender used by those who have no integrity to admit that they're wrong. It is pointless to expect these individuals to support their claims by FACTS and LOGIC.
VladT: If you're new at CNN forums, you should just keep quiet until you find your way around. If you've been around for a little while, you should already know who he is. Of course, you've been around but you're supporting him because you're either him or another one like him, you're just acting like a third party to have credibility which is a very common method used by the Israeli propagandists. Good try at insulting someone but, as any decent person knows, the odds of somebody living in a basement or eating hot pocket are extremely low unless they are Jews. Ha! Got ya! Anybody can type random accusations huh? Grow up imbecile.
@thinker Dude! You're getting paid to argue hese freaks?! Sign me up!
Paul... You should ask "Dianne", "Marek" and all their friends claiming that I'm being paid for exposing their racist lies for the information where and how one can join. I certainly do not have this information.
@thinker I was joking. I actually suspect those you named to be paid commentators. No one has more free cash these days than those awash in petrodollars.
Thinker23 is on CNN forums all day long every day, he unconditionally sides with the Israeli government and attacks those that criticize their actions while the entire world condemns Israel, its violence, its bullying, and its repeated violations of international law.
Words are cheap, you can't just put a few random words together and cleanse yourself of the rightful accusations. Facts give you away.
Beren... Can you SHOW ONE STATEMENT I've said that you DID NOT AGREE with? As long as you can not show such statement it means that YOU'VE AGREED WITH EVERY WORD I'VE SAID.
and "dianne" is a paid PLO publicist, working out of the dearborn islamic center and actually thinks anybody reading these comments has some meaningful input into world affairs! Coo Coo!!
All this above comments show me that there is a market for people commenting one way or another. And there comments do not represent the ideas of the people. I believe people making money on repeating the words of a given statement are rather shallow and lost. I did look into their comments to get a shadow of the representation that led their comments but it is far deluded. I do wish I could their sincere opinion. Maybe under a NICKNAME.
Deniz... TRUTH can be repeated many times and it will not become less true because of that. On the other hand, LIES have to be modified frequently to adjust them to the emerging evidence. Further, people who believe in what they say are willing to answer questions regarding the claims. Answering questions gives them a chance to PROVE that their claims were indeed true. LIARS, on the other hand, run away from questions or ignore them because they know that trying to answer these questions will expose them as liars... So what exactly would a "NON-bigoted" and a "NON-heartless" Netanyahu's successor do differently, in your opinion?
The ideal Israil leader of my opinion was killed.
Deniz... Let me understand: Are you saying that an ideal Israeli is a DEAD Israeli? and I still did not see your answer to my earlier question... What exactly would a "NON-bigoted" and a "NON-heartless" Netanyahu's successor do differently, in your opinion? I still did not see any answer to this question except the statement above saying that the "ideal" Israeli leader must be a DEAD one.
@thinker, You surely know your history
"Think" a bit harder may be the light bulb may come on this time... or is it too much to ask from a chicken nugget?
I MEANT YITZHAK RABIN.
Turkey should focus on ending its illegal occupation of Cyprus. Turkey is a rogue islamic nation.
Post your random nonsense elsewhere as it has nothing to do with reality.
come on!!!Turkey is just saving turks in cyprus who were settled cyprus many years ago . there is nothing illegal
commenter MAREK writes: You and your so-called "survivors" will all burn in hell while Adolf watches heaven, Germans are perfectionists so they just had to get rid of you parasites.
You germans are not perfectionist but all of you germans are MONKEYS . stop spreading nazi propaganda in cnn forums . idiot germans.
i ve just noticed it .thank you idealist . anybody seeing jews as parasites should look at their history first. German have always been the biggest PARASITES in the world. anywhere germans go, they eitherSlaughter people or destroy other peoples resources and country .almost all european nations were attacked by germans . list goes on and on .
this got to do with ISF protecting what they say is their waters like any country does.Come now the Armenian mass murders the Kurds are we going to fight about this forever? Israel says these are their waters full stop.If another country does not agree you go to the world court ,the UN you try Dipomacy what ever,If that doesnt work you go to war and take it away.Thats your options.Its got nothing to do with germany,Europe US anyone but Turkey and Israel. its their problem not anyone elses
Stevesut, your comment is the best comment so far. Israelis and turks should solve their problems without any conflict . Although US ,germany , armenians and russians are not part of Israeli turkish relations i also hope that they all solve their problems with peace , fighting and hate will not solve anything. solving problems with peace is the most important thing.
negative comments in here is just very sad . no country should suffer in this planet . i wish peace for all nations with lots of love.
Turkey is and needs to maintain a principled stand and stick to it.
But of course! Turkey should organize a "flotilla" to Syria and NOT interfere with a "flotilla" of goods for Kurd rebels to be delivered through Turkish territorial waters. Such actions would look like "maintaining a principled stand and sticking to it."
Kurds are not under a blockade by Turks. They have a free de-facto state in northern Iraq called Kurdistan where they have free flow of any good they need. You get carried away with your lies and propaganda, stop twisting things, stop comparing apples to oranges. Do some self-criticism instead of trying to justify your actions, you are limiting basic supplies to Palestinians, you are making them live in an outdoor-prison, you are throwing phosphoric bombs over their cities, you are killing scores of innocent civilians including children.
Beren... Palestinians have a free de-facto state in Gaza where they have a free flow of any good they need through the Egyptian border (up to and including elephants for the zoo)... If they did not like the current arrangement they would NEGOTIATE A BETTER DEAL long ago. They had plenty of opportunities. Try to GET A CLUE of what you're talking about in the future.
Just watch & learn.... http://youtu.be/IJxdIXgMGAI
diane & marek probably get drunk on kool aid & ride their camel in the desert.when people watch them they shout look at the two humps.pity the camel.diane probably never met a pastry she didn't like.
That's what you Jews and Arabs do, you are the middle eastern crowd. You act like you are different but you are actually almost identical. It's funny how you would accuse Europeans of being like you, you are major hypocrites that twist everything, ridiculous. Look at the mirror.
Beren... Can you explain this to the Palestinians and other Arabs please? They believe that the Jews came from Europe and stole their lands...
Israel should apologize after Turkey accepts responsibility for the Armenian Genocide and apologizes for murding 1.5 million Armenians and other Christians in its big to ethnically and religiously "cleanse" Turkey of non-Turks and Christians.
Stay on topic, remain in today's events. You have nothing to use against Turks, you can't win with the recent events, so you go digging centuries old random accusations against the previous Turkish empire. Your attempt is pathetic. You are clueless about what took place back at the time, stop heating and serving the same random nonsense, nobody buys it.
Let's see Turkey apologize to the Armenians. Maybe that will start the diplomatic process.
Sorry for late answers. Turkish internet seems to take time nowadays.
Deniz... You should not apologize for LATE answers... Your apology above is a proof that the Internet IS working for you. Now you may start looking for excuses you've posted NO ANSWERS despite having the access to the Internet.
I did reply to you
Turkey is a great nation with a great future. In my opinion, it should stay away from EU.
See. My comment, although it did not include any internetionally opposite comment is not posted on CNN immediately. But I can always talk on weather, flowers and cooking.
Sorry this communication is intercepted. I see no reason for making any further comments on a limited, directed and controlled media.
Did you ever thought of the finer points of sauteying onion. First you have to slice the onions very thinly not to exceed a milemeter. and after applying some salt on them and mincing the salt into the onion slices springle them with brown sugar and place them in a preheated pan containing.........
THIS IS THE APROACH OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO THE ISRAELIAN ISSUE. CHEERS
I keep posting the same answer massage to you 5-6 times. But it does not register. As the Israel government would do the Turkish government made abortion a current issue. Domestic concerns were uppermost before answereing you. I wander if this comment of mine will be published.
You must educate your staff on the internet control line. It takes time.
CNN, GPS and Fareed, you must understand that some of your contributers do make honest remarks in the hope of understanding and participating in a platform of many points of view. This kind of a forum does not raise, support or promote any social, religious or else belief. It is just the sharing of views of the global communication of people. And YES there may be disputes and many mispresentations and misinterpretations in such a global gathering as is in any gathering. These can only be solved by futher communication. Those who bar the way of communication or use their means to direct it can not be democratic. Unless the communication included any globally banned terms.
I just posted the very dilluted and 100% safe and internationally acceptable version of my comment. It still dwells on some matters which are caviar for the general. Talking on caviar. Caviar is food when it is fish egg. and omlet when you crack a few eggs. But a potential and an asset when it comes to the eggs that women may bring to life. I am retiring from Istanbul. And hope the new generation will have a peacefull sociaty of their choice in the future. But remember toilet training your dog when you have new puppies. Spreading the room with newspapers for it to pee on and than removing some newspapers at a time is old fashion. Dogs have the natural instinct of not messing on their bed or domeign.
But say I am north north west when the wind is southernly
The Turkish hard drive is a musical stringed instrument and its data are folk tunes passed on from our wise ancient ancestors who knew that written words could never convey true power and thus blessed us with our folk tunes, guiding power from beyond the grave which will guide us for Eternity.
damn i should have used a thesaurus
This is getting a bit more sutcejbive, but I much prefer the Zune Marketplace. The interface is colorful, has more flair, and some cool features like Mixview' that let you quickly see related albums, songs, or other users related to what you're listening to. Clicking on one of those will center on that item, and another set of neighbors will come into view, allowing you to navigate around exploring by similar artists, songs, or users. Speaking of users, the Zune Social is also great fun, letting you find others with shared tastes and becoming friends with them. You then can listen to a playlist created based on an amalgamation of what all your friends are listening to, which is also enjoyable. Those concerned with privacy will be relieved to know you can prevent the public from seeing your personal listening habits if you so choose.
We're a gaggle of volunteers and starting a new scheme in our community. Your web site offered us with helpful information to paintings on. You have done an impressive job and our entire neighborhood shall be grateful to you.
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