Editor's note: Egypt's highest court on Thursday declared the parliament invalid, and the country's interim military rulers declared full legislative authority, triggering a new level of chaos and confusion in the country's leadership. Here's a post from last month, where Fareed Zakaria examines the problem of Egypt's military dictatorship.
By Fareed Zakaria
If you look at Egypt moving forward, there's a great deal of emphasis placed on the various political parties and what they may stand for and what they're going to do. But we have to remember: The real obstacle to democracy in Egypt continues to be the people who run Egypt — a military dictatorship.
The military is still in power and they still dominate the economy — there are some estimates that they control between 10 and maybe even 30% of the economy. No one knows because it's all secret. But the point is unless the Egyptian military is genuinely willing to cede power, it doesn't really matter that much who wins the presidential election.
If you look at the Supreme Council of Armed Forces and the way in which it has controlled the press (punishing people who write exposés, for example) it's a very disturbing sign. And it shows you how important it will be not just to have elections in Egypt, but to have the other parts of a liberal democracy: the guarantees and rights of freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of association. Let's not forget — these are the inner stuffings of democracy.
The most important aspect of Egyptian democracy-building will not be the elections. It will be the writing of the constitution and making sure there are guarantees for women, for minorities, for free speech and for free assembly.
For now, political Islam has an enormous hold over the populace. The reason you didn't see that for the last few decades was because Egypt was a military dictatorship and it didn't really matter what the people of Egypt felt.
But over time, I think that religiosity will be moderated, as it has in almost every Muslim country that has turned to democracy. Because given time, people realize: they really want good government, they want jobs, they want economic welfare, and the mullahs aren't always able to deliver those things. It doesn't matter so much what you preach about in abstract matters, what matters is governance.
Democracy in Egypt would be an earthquake in the Arab world — if it succeeds. And the reason is that Egypt is the heart and soul of the Arab world. Egypt is the place from which all culture emanates in the Arab world: the songs and music, the TV shows, the language in many ways.
Egypt is the birthplace of the two biggest political ideas of the modern Arab world. The first being Arab nationalism or Pan-Arabism, the idea of politically unifying Arab countries; and the second being Islamic fundamentalism and this whole idea of political Islam which came from the Muslim Brotherhood and Sayyid Qutb. These were Egyptian ideas which then spread throughout the Arab and then the Islamic world.
So if the next big idea to spring out of Egypt is a working Muslim democratic system, that would be seismic.
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Zakaria is clueless.. "The real obstacle to democracy in Egypt continues to be the people who run Egypt — a military dictatorship." Huh? So are you saying that when the military gave power and the first thing that happened was that the Muslim brother hood stepped in, stopped providing natural gas to Israel, and are promoting sharia law is GOOD???? Pathetic! You numbskulls should be jailed for taking the dictator of these barbaric countries out of power. If we dont keep Islamists in check we will get disaster!!!
Who cares about Israel. This is all about Egypt and their wish. No proxy army.
Thats right
Israel is watching closely what's going on in Egypt. It fears its peace treaty with Egypt might not be honoured under an Islamist government.
Last year the military was playing a friendly role, it didn't crack down on the protesters and enabled them to topple the old regime. The SCAF is a wolf in sheep's skin. It has been watching the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood with uneasiness and wants to keep the party at bay.
Well I do care about Israel, so should you. Israel is the only secular democracy in the entire region and it's stable despite the antics of terrorist and hostile nations.
I care about the Israeli people. Their government, not so much. Also, it's a stretch to call it secular when it is explicitly considered a "Jewish state". Until the world grows up and learns to abandon their various sky fairies, we are all at risk.
If you were a true egyptian, you should care about the country next door. UNfortunately it seems you have no knowledge of your own history otherwise you would have spoken differently. And if you think, like the demonstration of last week by the muslim brotherhood which called to march on Jerusalem, THINK AGAIN.
I agree with "CHRIS".
"THAT'S RIGHT."
This guy infuriates me with his advice, CNN is always lecturing Americans with foreign nationals
Sorry, Chuck, Zakaria's a US citizen, graduate of Yale, with a Ph.D in political science from Harvard. He's also, in my opinion, just about the most informed person politically on the contemporarky American scene.
@Patrick
The problem is, he is also liberal, so by definition he thinks big but can't implement the big ideas into practical solutions. I think liberals are great for putting the focus on big world problems, but when it comes to time to actually do the dirty work and get the job done, it's better to let conservatives handle the heavy load.
He's a simpleton dressed up. Always hedging his bets. Anybody with any sense could see the Arab Spring was a disaster in the making. Guys like him give the propaganda version with a little "this could get difficult" thrown in. The same mentality when he supported the Iraqi invasion. Oops!
Chuck is just another failed American example. Lack of a good education, and full of ignorance.
Some of you seem to believe that Mr.Zakaria is highly informed.
Here are just a few examples of his knowledge and analysis:
a) Egypt-Israel peace treaty was between TWO REGIMES and NOT Two Peoples!! (Suggesting that Egypt abrogate the treaty).
b) The Danger is from us and NOT from them (saying openly that America is more dangerous than even Al-Qaeda and islamic terror was a direct result of US actions.
c) Syria is a landlocked country!!!!
d) The problem in Syria and Iran was b'coz oil was at $105 a barrel (suggesting that the US & Europe had a role in stirring up trouble there).
e) Iran is a rational actor, and we can't blame Iran for aspiring for nuclear weapons given that India and Pakistan in the region also had them. (Suggesting that the Mullahs in Iran were as rational as the Russians in adhering to MAD-Mutual Assured Destruction and could be trusted to act with reason, and suggesting that the Nukes with India and Pakistan somehow posed a danger to Iran).
f) How Russia created its own islamic terrorist problem – suggesting that Russian actions in Chechnya created the terrorist problem, disregearding the billions Russia pumped into Chechyna to win them over & failed to veer that society away from crime, kidnappings, drugs, radicalism.
g) India has imposed martial rule in Kashmir – Again disregarding the Islamic fundamentalism that has taken roots there with Pakistani help.
Let me know if you need references for these and scores of other such biased, ignorant statements.
And, Mr. Zakaria's Yale & Harvard grads. While no doubt those are great credentials, it's not that everyone who gets in really deserves to be there. Plz. note I am not aware of Mr. Zakaria's credentials. But what I know he comes from a very wealthy & influential family. Check on the book "The Price of Admissions". by Daniel Gordon on How America's and the world's influential people buy into Ivy league schools.
"Zakaria's a US citizen, graduate of Yale, with a Ph.D in political science from Harvard."
Obama is a Harvard grad and a moron – being an Ivy Leaguer doesn't automatically make one an expert in anything. Listen, read the body of Zarkaria's work – he is first and foremost an apologist for radical Islam – he asserts that if the Muslim Brotherhood seizes political p[ower in Egypt that religion will not rule – hogwash, any idiot would know better – Zarkaria works tooth and nail for CAIR – CNN is a prime mover among news organizations for the moddycoddling of Muslims and the de facto apologists for radical Islam – We'd be better off shedding Ivy Leaguer types from positions of authority in this country and especially the pointy heads like Zarkaria. Don';t be fooled by this Charlatan like you have by Obama.
Hey Chuck, Fox news has plenty of people with high school educations I'm sure you will enjoy.
of course that gets to the idea of who is an "American"
Is Henry Kissinger an American or is he a foreign national?
Zakaria is an idiot and a socialist and a supporter of the worse president in US history, Oblamo.
Amit-Atlanta, thnx. I will check out that book, The Price of Admission.
Some work I had years back at an Ivy Legue was an eye opener -a pack of incredibly stupid rich kids would be an understatement. I knew they were wealthy, but far too many dumb as shrubs (or dumb as Bushes) was so disheartening to discover, b/c society desperately needs these seats filled with innovative thinkers.
Unfortunately you are the face of the ugly and ignorant American who is confined to the bounderies of country. If you push yourself on the countries of the world then you should use foreign brains to correct your mistakes and God knows they are very many. You are probably an ignorant southern evangelist who is limited in everything, even his faith
Democracy is government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections, if they choose to be governed by religious group that their choice let it be, Why we want to impose our democracy to them?
wrong. Democracy is not simply "majority rule". It needs to be coupled with minority rights.
If you turn the country over to the majority, then you open the door to oppression of all minorities.
There needs to be guarantees for rights for the minority, like here in the US. Without these, then Egypt was better off under Mubarek.
Look at Iraq – when Hussein was deposed the majority Muslims greatly persecuted Christians, Kurds, and women.
I do not support any kind of "democracy" without minority rights.
Zakaria is a diehard Muslim Brotherhood extremist whose sole mission in life is to be their mouthpiece here in the United States. The US government should strip him of his US citizenship and deport him to Egypt, Syria.... who cares where as long as he is with 'his brothers"!
I sincerely hope that you are using sarcasm, sir.
It's a shame that a fine name like Richard is used by a clown. Oh – wait a minute, clowns are funny.
Rick is another failed white American.
Even though Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood lost their parliamentary stronghold, they still hope to gain the presidency this weekend. Ahmed Shafiq, a military-rooted strongman promising a firm hand to ensure stability is running against Brotherhood candidate Mohammed Morsi.
The islamist movement has lost tremendous support in the past 16 months. They are going to try and regain power by depicting themselves as the only defense against a return of old political styles of the previous legitimate government led by Mubarak.
As expected, a large group of supporters demonstrated in Cairo’s main squares after a serious rev up by Imam’s at Friday’s prayers. No matter what the results of this first democratic election, there will be problems and people will be killed. Muslim will kill Muslim in the name of control.
Zakaria is the reason I stopped watching CNN. His ideas sound so clever but they do not stand the test of reality in this Arab world. Every country in the Arab world that uses Islam as the law of the land became opressive to its citizens. The idea of an "Islamic Democracy" is a farce. It simply does not exist and will not exist until the Arab masses who can vote become literate, and understand the potential in true democracy, (other than doing Alah's will). I view this idea nd the rest of Zakaria's "great wisdom" as either brainwashing propaganda, or halucinations of a wishful thinker. Sorry Fareed.
I agree. We are not stupid. But some others are, and they may take him seriously.
Um...hence Zakaria's statement that "if the next big idea to spring out of Egypt is a working Muslim democratic system, that would be seismic."
You people are illiterate.
Muslem democratic system...mmmmm...there is no such thing. Perhaps you should think separation of mosque and state before you preach giving the mullahs "democratic power" ...please do not challenge my intelligence I also went to an ivy league school...
I, totally, agree with you. Egyptian military might be the only thing that stands against Muslim Brotherhood that will radicalize the entire Middle East.
Truth, Zakaria understands this stuff far better than you. Sit down and shut up.
The "Arab Spring" is a western pipe dream, not possible in the Middle East with it's history of abosolute authoritarian government. Read my blog on "Arab Spring." Go to http://www.were-eagles-soar.com Click on DDBlog
There is jerk-knee assumption in the West that democracy and freedom are inherently good. Fine, I'll go along with that so long as it is clear who it is inherently good for. If the masses in Egypt had their way, islamic extremists would indeed be in power – that's good for them because that's their desire. But, is it good for America? Is it good for the EU and others – Be careful what you wish for.
who is this Zakaria guy? from which refugee camp did CNN pick him up???? seriously?? last thing we need is Muslim Brothers running the middle east, which means, 2000 years back (to the Calyphite age). Lets get it straight, muslim brotherhood are bloody thirsty mofos. I hate to say it, but if their religion is based on blood thirst, then let the Iron hand of Assads regime slam down on them and save humanity for more Terrorists, and The US should ally with Syria in this matter, do we need another 9/11 NO i dont want that, Do i need to see people dying and flying, NO i dont want that. Do I need to see a civilized middle east that is no longer living in the stonage, yes i do..
well said truth,but you are better off banging your head against the wall,then you will ever be at getting Faried to print the TRUTH! he is simply a liar and propoganda spin doctor for the obama regime! all he has done is print one lie after the next for the past year in regards to all of these AL-QAEDA backed revolts in northern africa and syria!
just last week in LIBYA,the new democracy loving terrorist there BOMBED the US embassy. what did you hear from FAREED after that happened? NOTHING! and just three days ago,those same terrorist in LIBYA tried to ASSASINATE TI BRITISH AMBASSADOR to LIBYA!! what did you hear from FAREED or CNN on either of those stories...NADA!!
we got duped by our own greed in libya and now our govt knows but doesnt want the people of AMERICA to know the truth! and now the military of egypt has taken over that govt so there will be no democracy there either! and they will have a favorable relationship with IRAN and there is nothing that we can do about it. OBAMA HAS TO GO!!
What does Zakaria want: 1. Nuclear Iran. 2 Muslim brotherhood in Egypt. 3. Pro-Hizbollah gov't in Syria. Add it all up, and he wants the Israel's enemies to win and be strong. Wonder why?
`Fareed Zakaria spreads lies with nice words. The muslim brotherhood received 1.5 billion from the president to buy votes in Egypt. I feel so sorry for this country which had a few decades of interior calm and now is in turmoil. The muslim brotherhood are forcing 14 years old girls to marry so that they will bare children and the first law which they have proposed is to forbid women to get neither high school nor university education. And for those kinds of legislations they were given 1.5billion.
re: But over time, I think that religiosity will be moderated, as it has in almost every Muslim country that has turned to democracy.
Any examples? I am having a hard time trying to think of one...
I agree with Robert, Mr. Zakaria. I have seen you post a similar assertion before. Any examples? Whenever, I see Muslim nations with a "democracy" they chose fundamentalist Islam and chose to vote in Sharia Law. "Moderate Islam" nates like Turkey and Indonesia are turning towards fundamentalist Islam. They are not "moderating"; they are "radicalizing".
One current President of Turkey does not change an entire history of secularism in a country like Turkey.
And pointing to flaws in its sytem of democracy is a false comparison to our own. Hell, if the Pentagon Papers taught us anything it's how much England and France envied us for a freedom of the press they did not have. Using ourselves as the standard would require us to dismiss them as democracies as well.
Turkey, Malaysia maybe.
Turkey? Prime Minister Erdogan and the government has clearly embarked on a path of Islamization. For example, recently a Turkish pianist named Fazil Say is facing six months to one year of prison for tweeting remarks considered offensive to Muslims. Also Turkey’s Greek Orthodox citizens (non-Muslims) living on the island of Imbros are not allowed to buy property on the island.
Malasia? Malaysian Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak recently told Malaysian Christians that if they respect us (Muslims), we will also respect them. The Home Ministry has barred the Catholic Church from using the word “Allah” in the Malay-language version of its newpaper, The Herald. That decision was overturned by the High Court in 2009 and is under appeal because some Muslims argue that word should be reserved for Islam. After the ruling, several churches were fire-bombed and then 35,100 Malay-language bibles were seized by the Home Ministry.
Pakistan has elected two women PMs, there's one.
Are you seriously suggesting that religiosity has been moderated in Pakistan?
...And safely harbored Osama Bin Laden
Much like any other country (and much to the chagrin of conservatives) not all 2 Billion muslims can be painted with one brush. The majority of pakistan is progressive. Unfortunately, their military/intelligence personnel represent a much more conservative agenda – much like in the US – SHOCKER!
I dunno. Was'nt there only one – Benazir, guess she was elected two different times. But she was the eldest daughter of a former prime minister and tour-de-force who was killed by the military. So she had sympathy going for her and she was still one of the richest people in that country. When they elect a commoner woman, I will tip my hat to them.
Well guess what – we in the US see what we see coming out of pakistan and make up our minds based on that.
And then assassinated them.
It is not the "religiosity" assertion that is the problem, it's finding countries that have turned to democracy.
His other faux paux is when he writes about having "the other parts of a liberal democracy". Why does it need to be a LIBERAL democracy? Why can't it be a CONSERVATIVE democracy? Or perhaps even better, why not just state "democracy" while leaving all his, and everybody else's, personal bias out?
Liberal Democracy is the term he is using, look it up on Wiki, he is not adding politics there
Given the fact that the military is more moderate then the people who voted the Muslim Brotherhood this would be a good example of the military attempting to moderate the countries position. Look at how much the military has done to moderate the politics of Turkey
In the short term you are right, the problem is whether the military will ever relinquish power if and when a real democracy takes over. Of course the truth is that a real democracy in these countries is a catch-22. If the bulk of the people want a strict Moslem state it might not allow equal rights which is then not a true democracy.
The United States is not a democracy. Why do people keep trying to foist a form a government on others that we ourselves do not have. The U.S. is a Republic.
And who cares what form of government they have so long as their country is at peace and the people are safe and have freedoms to go along with their responsibilities? The U.S. government doesn't listen to its people. Just because we get to cast meaningless votes doesn't change that.
"But over time, I think that religiosity will be moderated, as it has in almost every Muslim country that has turned to democracy"
Algeria, Turkey, Tunisia, and Iran say otherwise. And if we keep going, we can also throw the UK and France into that statement as well.
And I nearly forgot about Indonesia as well.
Turkey? Really? They are our best ally in the M.E. (yes, I know they are technically in Europe) and have a completely representative government.
The question is if religiosity has been moderated in Islamic counties with a democracy, not if an Islamic country is a democracy.
Weren't we told that this Arab Spring was a good thing? Over and over?
Someone forgot that they might want a strict Moslem state which is not democratic by definition.
If you want real change then you need to write to your congressmen & congresswomen to stop giving the Egyptian Military financial aid packages. We give them close to $6B a year. Stop all that aid and watch how fast their military loses its power.
"Whoa is me". It's aways something. Don't let this turn into another Holocaust.
Suggestion: Give each citizen of Egypt an AK 47, a Toyota Tacoma Pickup with an anti aircraft gun in the back, a GPS system, a cell phone, a computer, a computer game on War, John Wayne and Clint Eastwood DVDs, and maybe Charlie Bronson (the one that looks as though he dug 17 tunnels with his face), a first aide kit with lots and lots of Morphine and Amphetamines, both are used in time of WAR, since WWI, and lots and lots of rocks, or something, to through at the military. Every story that comes from there, seem to show lots of boys and men, throwing ROCKS at one another............."I don't know."
PS: and a TANK Based on history, these are the devices that seem to work.
PS: and, based on recent success of use, a "DRONE."
Well written, I agree, Mr. Zakaria.
Zakaria Blows another in depth analysis, by reason of his slanted world view. The real reason that Egypt is still stalled is the clear understanding that the MB is trying to create another Iran. Zakaria - Get a clue.
The real obstacle to democracy is the fact : democracy is a just balance among people,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
and it works only at good time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,not for a bad time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
take a look of our congress ,,,,,,,,,,,,they are democrap,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,not democracy
I think it is naive to think that the islamists will bring democracy or modernity to Egypt.
There are no good choices on the radar screen in Egypt. Your comments are very similar to Tom Friedman's remarks after he had strawberry tea with the number two of the Brotherhood.
islamists have their own democraps,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The best time for world wide democracy is when there is E.T. from Mars invade earth,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
It's quite dubious that Egypt will ever be a true democracy since the bureaucrats in both Washington and Europe want to keep a strangled on that government by manipulating the results of those elections either through the C.I.A., the notorious British MI-6 or both! That was tried in Iran three years ago this month, but failed somehow.
According to the last article I read by Zakaria, what Egypt needs is lots and lots of immigration. You can't have a highly functioning first world country unless you have lots of lots of foreigners immigrate to the country.
Yeah, anybody who can't pay back their student loan or gets their house foreclosed on or their car repossessed should get a free ticket to Cairo baby!
And they can have Jamie Dimon too!
Except most Asian first world countries.
They need separation of religion and politics as well as the military backing off. That religion will continue to keep them a third world country. The military is not going to hand the country over to people who are not capable of governing themselves. They are not fortunate enough to have our forefathers (U.S.) to lead them into a new age, so they are stuck with the old ways. It's unfortunate, because unhappy Muslims are causing problems all over the world.
Wow. Way to recycle tidbits of all your old articles... You Mister Zakaria, are lazy... and your arguments are flawed, while you reasoning lacks substantiation. No big deal though, you only write for CNN.
failed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Just exactly who are these muslim democracies? The only one I know of is Turkey and it has grown more conservative, less secular over time, and the democracy less tolerant. Pakastan has never been a true democracy despite having elections and it's become much more radicalized. Most muslim countries are dictatorships. Just curious who these moderating islamic democracies are suppossed to be.
IWhen I think of a successful Islamic democracy, Indonesia comes to mind.
IIt is, however, lamentable that a few radicals were able to intimidate Lady Gaga into cancelling her concert in Aceh.
"So if the next big idea to spring out of Egypt is a working Muslim democratic system, that would be seismic."
Fareed, you must be smoking crack.
this Arab Spring,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The Jews are descendants of Abraham’s son Isaac.===========
The Arabs are descendants of Abraham’s son Ishmael. ==============
With Ishmael being the son of a slave woman (Genesis 16:1-16) and Isaac being the promised son who would inherit the blessings of Abraham (Genesis 21:1-3), obviously there would be some animosity between the two sons. As a result of Ishmael’s mocking Isaac (Genesis 21:9), Sarah talked Abraham into sending Hagar and Ishmael away (Genesis 21:11-21). Likely, this caused even more contempt in Ishmael’s heart towards Isaac. An angel prophesied to Hagar that Ishmael would “live in hostility toward all his brothers” (Genesis 16:11-12).
Do you seriously believe that the fictional rift between two fictional brothers from an alleged period of perhaps 3000-4000 years ago is legitimate source of today's problems? No, silly nonsense espoused as The Word of God is the source of today's problems. Grow up.
What is your theory?
The Real issue?
Christ Man! Could it get anymore apparently realer than a military coup by the supporters of the ousted dictator?
Does this turd really need a sugar sprinkle coating?
"Realer"???? BTW, the military backed the people in the revolt, if they backed the dictatorship, as in Syria, they would still be a civil war going on.
The interesting is that military keep a grip on people's throat, using the same very people that happen to be in military service. As long as this soldiers will not understand that their loyalty is towards people of Egypt and not to military rulers and that this citizen soldier can not be manipulate to shut their own people, as long democracy will be an empty word.
Most soldiers are trained to do what their superiors tell them. They know they have a meal and a roof over their heads, and possibly a better future in the establishment. This is why they will abuse their own people: they will wish to maintain their status in their own "community".
The real problem in Egypt is not the military dictatorship. It would gladly step aside and let democracy in if the people of Egypt can unite behind one democratic civilian leader. They can't because they are fragmented. Their disunity allows opportunists like the military to step in and exploit them. Bear in mind, this wouldn't be possible if Egypt already had a history of democracy and democratic traditions. Sadly, it does not.
I can't believe they still let this guy write. His incoherent rambling only proves his complete disconnect from this world's actual political issues. "The real obstacle of democracy in egypt" is NOT "the military dictatorship," it is the EDUCATION SYSTEM. Regardless of who runs Egypt, nothing will ever change until they put "Education Reform" on top of their political agenda's. These people scream "democracy" and do not actually know what it is. These "leaders," who ever they may be, if they really hope for a democracy, their priorities should begin with the urgent drafting of an educational template which prepares Egyptian children with the necessary skills needed to transform their own country, back to what it was – the cradle of civilization. The fact that each Egyptian politician is spending their precious campaign time to debate barbaric topics, such as "Fair-well Intercourse Law," and not once mentioning the future of their children, only proves the international public's stupidity for believing "democracy" is Egypt's concern. Egyptian politician's are only using the word "democracy" to please the West (and keep American funding). This generation, nor future generations, will ever see a democratic Egypt until they they separate religion from the school system. As adults, we owe our children (all the children of the world) a duty. A duty to protect them. A duty to nourish their minds by teaching them how to avoid our mistakes. A duty to teach them tolerance, to provide them with an equal opportunity to succeed in a completely global world. My apologies, Egypt has failed its children, and therefore, has failed its future. THAT MY FRIENDS, IS THE REAL OBSTACLE FOR DEMOCRACY IN EGYPTIAN.
You assume that the Egyptians want a Western style education that would lead to a healthy democracy. At this point, it appears that they want an Islamic government in place, considering this is how they clearly voted. I do not feel it that the Muslim Brotherhood was able to steal the election just because they were more organized. In general, the populace of Egypt is pretty fundamentalist, and the "education" they prefer may not lead them to Democratic ideals.
Respectfully, I didn't assume that Egyptians want a Western style education. The Western Education system, although close, is still not fulfilling its duty to properly educate western children. My argument is that Egyptian politicians are hiding their true agenda's behind the Western theory of "democracy." This is due to the current influx of media sources. I was in Egypt last week and what I witnessed was shocking. The majority of the egyptian public gets their electoral news/education from FACEBOOK. The politicians know this and they also know that the times have changed and the whole world is watching. So they claim they want "democracy" to please the world. If they "clearly want an Islamic Government" why are all the headlines about "Egyptian Democracy?" The egyptian people, Muslims/Christians/Jews alike, only want security and a future for their children. The majority are fundamentalists, not by choice, but because that is what they were taught since they were born: at home at school and in their places of worship. My issue isn't that Egypt wants to be an Islamic Government, my issue is that these politicians need to grow balls and admit thats what they want. They hide behind the word "democracy" to win votes – why? – because they know that people no longer want to live in oppression. Yet, aside from the word "democracy" their agendas are clearly anything but democratic. If these politicians truly cared about their country's future, aside from the future of their personal bank accounts, they would start by educating their children to avoid their mistakes.
Get rid of these ridiculous mythical being that folks are falling for. These are stories, nothing more. It is like having a religion based on Betsy Ross and the first flag. Get rid of religion and you get rid of war. Get rid of religion and you foster understanding. Get rid of religion and a whole new world can develop, before education, you need to get rid of religion the cause of all evil.
The REAL real issue: they haven't gone thru their civil war yet...Just about invariably needs to happen to decide who gets to be in charge, when undergoing this much change in your system of government...
Saudi's and its best friend Israel were able to pull off. Mubarak and his Military are still powerful and influentail.
The real question here has nothing to do with Islam, but rather the right of people to select their own leaders. This is about a dictatorship, where leaders, and all the decisions which affect people's lives are imposed on it's people. State control of media, state control of the economy, state control of most every aspect that affects Egyptians. Show where in history it has ever been a benefit to keep people bottled up, angry and powerless under an authoritarian regime. The longer people are kept powerless the more radicalized and fringe they become. That is the history of the world. Until the regime is gone, there is no chance for people to even begin a healthy forward looking process. It is true we may not like the outcome in the short-term, but it is the only way to create healthy change in the long term IMO.
The military coup happened months ago with the fall of Mubarak, when the Supreme Council of Armed Forces announced it is now "In Session", deployed its armored vehicles around strategic buildings and streets (TV, parkliament, newspapers etc...) in the capital, and flew Mubarak to his coumpound in Sharm El Sheikh (held him – and his 2 sons – under de-facto house arrest until his trial). Gullible Egyptians called it a "Revolution"!! Now it is just consolidating its grip on power. If you really believe the military will hand-over power to a civilian and take orders from him, then I've got a famous bridge to sell to you... meet me at the Smithsonian: I've got that one up for sale too.
Mubarak was a puppet of the Egyptian military who was able to abuse the populace because the military allowed it. In the end, Mubarak served the purposes of the military: to keep control in both policy and economics. Does it surprise anyone that after the "puppet" fell, nothing has changed in Egypt? The military will hang on to its powers until it is forced to relinquish them. I do not see that happening any time in the near future.
Fareed: I have had the greatest respect for you. However your last sentence is troubling to me. Why can't their be separation of "church" and state in an Arab democracy? Why must it be a "working Muslim democratic system"? Why not a working Arab democratic system? What about the Coptic Christians? Even the historical Egyptian Jewish population? A possibility of some cultural pluralism? You mention all these other accepted democratic freedoms but you still define it as a Muslim government. Care to explain your thinking?
typo correction: "...why can there be..."
typo correction: "...why can't there be..."
I am not sure of the reason for different formats, but the other CNN format (finally) allows editing.
bc:
With all due respects to you I must say this.
Mr. Zakaria has always been a overt & covert Islamic supporter. I suggest you read his articles a bit more closely.
Or Google on my name and you will see a ton of postings that I have made on my former countryman (from India).
See an issue for what it is, rather than through a prism. I know bad things have been done in India by terrorists, but not every issue is seen through that perspective. He is talking about dictatorship and democracy, and every country has a right to have their own democracy whether we like that government or not.
Egypt struggled a lot to solve its problems. But, it can not without the outside help. Because, its existence was by outsiders. The current conflict wasn't new. It always there, but it got exposed by way of uprising.
The questions of Egypt never been answered and it is also not in the favor of current Egyptian (who are the descendants of Turkish and Albania).
What was Egypt? Who is true Egyptian? Where are the true Egyptians now? How and by Whom Egypt was formed?
Well, I want you to share your own views, by answering the above questions. It is also a bit complicated, for those who has been misguided by self-motivated and radical Muslim historians.
The current Muslim majority Egyptians are the immigrants of Turkish and Albanian ethnic groups. The original/native Egyptians who are the owner of the Biblical age history are Nubians and Coptic-Orthodox Christians. Who remained voiceless and powerless, currently in our time.
You might see the same situations in North-America (Native Indians); Syria (Asyrian-Christians); Iraq (Asyrian-Christians); Iran (Asyrian-Christians); J-State (Coptic-Orthodox)...
Therefore, what you grew without the true seed will come-out unnatural and does not test good.
Let´s look at the history of our own Christian faith and recall the hold the Catholic Church had on the Western World for centuries. Islam is still in it´s adolescence in comparison. Is what we are seeing any different from Europe in the dark ages?
Yeah but I would rather deal with Christianity than Islam any day.
YET AGAIN......it's NOT at all surprising to see our Islamic supporter Mr.Zakaria trying to put a soft face on the Islamists in Egypt waiting in the wings to capture power. He talks minority rights even though those parties themselves have said nothing, with the Coptic Christians wondering where they fit into the new equation.
Secondly, Mr.Zakaria finds religious moderation in those Islamic countries that has turned to democracy, suggesting that it's all good, while the fact remains that such moderation has not translated into any improvements in minority rights. On the contrary, countries like Pakistan, Turkey, NOT to talk of Egypt, Libya, Morocco, Tunisia have all seen a resurgence in Islamic fundamentalism, even with civilian governments in place.
So, once again a NOT so covert effort at sweetening the Islamic pie for Americans, rebranding the fundamentalists as moderates, and ofcourse trashing America & our allies.
If Egypt was in Latin America we would know that the CIA was behind the military takeover.
egypt is a cauldron of anti west – anti israel haters....racism in this country is beyond rampant...why is it liberals wont face up to this disgraceful underbelly to egyptian and almost all arab muslim societies...all YOU want to write about is israel and the alledged misdeeds of theirs....I mean, its just such a joke the way the media, the largely left leaning media, covers the middle east....all this politically correct crap about how we need to be sensitive to muslims....why? tell me why? all they do is ruin countries, crap on women, blow up others, blow up themselves, hijack planes, etc...etc...etc....invent new car bombs, new underwear bombs, etc...etc....
what is this freakin fetish the left has with the kid gloves for arab muslims and muslims in general? I have no problem calling a spade a spade. We have NOTHING in common with them....they should all be kicked out of the country and told to go elsewhere. Its enough of this stupid experiment.
War with Islam is not going to fix anything. The Conservatives always want hate and war. The problem is secular. Look at what Turkey is. Its not perfect but it is a democracy in the Islamic World. The bad guys are the Wahhabi Arabs.
They are ultra conservative and they are mostly in Saudi Arabia. Remember the guys in the planes on 9/11 ? Fareed is a smart guy. Hey where did Rush Limbaugh go and get his degrees. Does he have a TV Show ? Egypt and Syria need to work thisngs out WITHOUT American troops on the ground or in the air. Its their country. Let them decide for themselves.
I am in 100% agreement, shut up Zakaria you terrorist loving son of a she goat.
The real obstacle to democracy in Egypt is Islam and the centuries of ignorance and intolerance that it lovingly embraces.
Really, Fareed? Religiosity has moderated??? In what government? Turkey? No, their government has become much more Islamist. Afghanistan? The Taliban are lurking in wait of our departure. Pakistan? Their government seems to be less willing to crack down on factions than the old regime was. Iraq? Frankly, the Hussein regime was never religious. Egypt? The Islamists are prepared to step in and rightly should - based on the results of their election. Libya? Islamists have a strong foothold there and are gaining power.
So exactly where is it that you've found religiosity moderating in Middle East governments?
Is that right.
Sadly, the real obstacle is that Islam is incompatible with democracy.
Won't ever happen democracy in ANY Islamic nation due to the cult that is Islam will fight to the death or suicide to the death–as cults are defined as–and no peace will ever exist as Islam is by very definition opposed to democracy – in the way it treats women, the way it enslaves and brainwashes the children, and the way it feels justified in killing any thing it considers an 'infidel'.
I like how people think Democracy can be birthed in a day or a matter of months. The American colonies were autonomous for over 100 years before the war with England. Countries that turned like Turkey took decades; people just think it happens over night now. It's ridiculous honestly. And Mubarak was probably a better figurehead than where this is going; just like Gadhafi in Libya. REFORM = BAD; REGRESSIVENESS = GOOD!
Whether or not it was to personal advantage, I respect the Egyptian military for ensuring domestic tranquility while politics plays out. The Egyptian people thought so, and so far it has remained NOT very heavy-handed as such things go. Stepping in when other branches of government undermine each other-however validly or not-does not contradict this. I am not sure what went wrong to have the Court toss the Legislature, but unless it turns out that was a military move-a true coup-I will not condemn the Egyptian military yet. I only wish them all peaceful solutions.
When Islam prevails throughout the world, as it ultimately will, we are going to sever the nips of the mothers of the infidel westerners and embroider them into beautiful tapestries which will adorn our holy mosques. Then we will scoop the fecal matter from their r ectal passages and feed it to your children...
Allah is Great! Praise Allah!
Islam is a ruthless religion that encourage believers to kill "all those who don't believe in their religion" and their religion is disgusting toward women in which dogs and camels get more rights and consideration. Islam doesn't conform with modern day society of human rights and equal rights between men and women. In other words timothy, your entire statement is hogwash
This World is owned and run by gangsters. People are prioritizing to live for their Flesh rather than for their Spirit or Soul.
The Jewish Torah and the Jewish secret religious book, 'Talmud' teaches worst things as well. I could quote a lot, if necessarily.
It tells Jewish people to go to places where they can not be noticed, and to kill non-Jews and Christians.
That's is why more Arabic speaking Jews murdered my Christian people in Middle-East.
Currently, anyone can see Jewish are using Orientals, South-Asians,...to attack my Christian people in U.S, Canada,..in work places, Schools, Residents,.. They pretend to be others and speaking French, Arabic,....Sometimes, I ask myself, what did Jews done to Hitler? Why he chose to attack Jews?
In our time, we witnessed what Jews are upto and what they are doing in the Media, work places, Schools,...and using others to do their evil activities. America is a place where every ethnics work and lives: it has also, international Journalists. No way out.
The Talmud gave very bad names for Christ, Apostles and Christians.
Christian is the best Religion.
Everyone is welcome.
It teaches, how to love your enemies.
Go ahead and quote from the Talmud.
Bring it on!
100% muslim
The only place you'll find stuff "against the goyim" is on anti-semitic sites purporting to give sections of the Talmud. The classic thing is either to make stuff up, or take out of context something that in the Talmud is a proposition which is then demolished. If you're seriously interested in Talmud, which I doubt, there are ways and places to learn – just ask.
Judaism is fundamentally accepting of others having their own paths. We don't insist that they become Jews or be condemned to "eternal damnation". We just ask that people lead a righteous life, which means the sort of thing that all sane and civilised people agree with, like no murder, no theft, having a justice system.
EDIT: Silly Dicky F – you're using a lying source. Just for a start, the Talmud doesn't "supercede" anything (I assume you mean the Tanakh, rather than the translated and re-arranged Christian "Old Testament"). Anyone has been able to obtain a full Talmud for as long as it has existed in print. If by 'watered down' you mean shortened, well, the whole thing is kind of enormous, you know, and most people who aren't Jewish scholars haven't wanted to plough through the lot. But no-one was prevented from getting the lot! The bulk of it is commentary on Torah, which is why it's absurd to make out that it supercedes anything.
as long as the Jews are not going country to country chopping people up for not being Jewish, I'm not really concerned. If you like, I can switch from saying that the Koran is the source of all Islamic evil and go to "There's a spaceship that hits Muslims with a mind control ray that makes them form theocracies and commit atrocities with horrible regularity.". Still, doesn't really change anything.
When the Jews start enslaving and blowing stuff up and beating homs to death and putting Legal R laws on the books, I'll consider them worse than Islam.
It doesn't matter if the holy text in question is nothing but kittens and sunshine, when its followers start to kill the non believers, their actions speak far louder than their words or writings.
If you hadn't noticed, the Jews don't go around killing goys because of some Talmudic verses. Oh, I'm sure there are some violent radical Jews, but they don't have international organizations that kill hundreds to thousands of innocent people every year in the name of Allah.
your sarcasm is heavy handed.
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Looks like CNN did not post my comment.
Oh well!
"All Muslim democracies moderated once they have become democratic". That is a joke. First few are democracies. Turkey is going back to its islamic roots. Fareed what are you smoking?
Zakaria, is there anything at all in the world that you are not an expert at? I mean, your "astute" opinions range from the middle east to local politics and beyond. Your all-encompassing vision is truly astounding.
when is CNN going to FIRE FAREED for printing one lie after another over the past year in regards to these AL-QAEDA led revolts in the middle east and africa? oops....almost forgot,that is what he is PAID to do!!
Fareed? "But over time, I think that religiosity will be moderated, as it has in almost every Muslim country that has turned to democracy" Modern history lesson: Biggest Democracy in the middle East is Turkey. They are pushing the secular military more and more out of politics and increasingly are giving tacit approval to islamic law outside its major cities, while implementing more islamic based law in its major cities. (Its part of the AKP official policiy) Second Biggest Muslim Democracy, Egypt, Muslim Brotherhood won the election. Third Example, Gaza Strip, a terrorist organization, Hamas, won. In Iran, if you want to call it a fair election, The hardline government keeps winning. Sooo. where are the examples of moderation you were discussing. If I remember correctly didn't you write a piece on how Egypt was a success story while real professors like Niall Ferguson, a Harvard middle east specialist, who actually took a history lesson, ( he was on CNN as a contributor) said this was one of the US's biggest blunders because A) Our intelligence community dropped the ball on estimating the populist coup, B) Mdke America look weak in front of its allies by throwing Mubarak under the bus after visiting the region to promote change and C) revealing we have no plan if the military or Islamist hold power. Thank you Fareed for proving to everyone no matter how many good schools you attend or how many languages you know, it does not prove you are in fact educated or informed.
It doesn’t matter whether Islamic groups call themselves Al Quaeda or Al Schmaeda, Abu Sayyaf, Islamic Jihad or Hizbollah or Hamas, whether they operate in the south of Thailand or they chop off the heads of schoolchildren in Indonesia or in black Africa: All are part of one global movement called Jihad, all are ‘mujaheddin who wage Jihad for the sake of Allah, who kill and die in the name of Allah as prescribed in the Koran.
Zakaria is dangerous and is a imperialist foreigner on US soil. Where is the counterpoint to his rabble? Why did he not mention the oppression of Jews and Christians in Egypt? Where are their rights? No mention of the brutal violence by Muslim ragheads against the beautiful Coptic peoples – the original inhabitants of that land? Shame on the imperialist Zakaria. He shouldn't even have a voice in this country.
well stated
Friedrich Nietsche, German Philosopher:
“I condemn Islam; I bring against the the Islamic faith the most terrible of all the accusations that an accuser has ever had in his mouth. It is, to me, the greatest of all imaginable corruptions; it seeks to work the ultimate corruption, the worst possible corruption. Islam has left nothing untouched by its depravity; it has turned every value into worthlessness, and every truth into a lie, and every integrity into baseness of soul. Let any one dare to speak to me of its “humanitarian” blessings! … I call Islam the one great curse, the one great intrinsic depravity, the one great instinct of revenge, for which no means are venomous enough, or secret, subterranean and small enough, – I call it the one immortal blemish upon the human race. . . . “
Another foreigner lecturing us. The root problem in Egypt is islam. Until islam is eradicated, Egypt cannot mover forward.
So you ditch the military rule, the mullahs take over, what are you going to say? Whoops, my bad?
Please, even a blind squirrel can find the nut in this one: The islamists want the whole she-bang. Yes, there are people who don't want another Iran, but they're outnumbered in the region by the islamists. If the mullahs take over, the next thing that you're going to see is another start of a war with Israel. And there you have it, another Iran in the middle east.
Sorry chuckles, I completely disagree with your naive position.
Outnumbered is why they had to kill all the political opposition people during the revolution, because they would be outvoted as they were outvoted in the last two Egyptian elections. Revolutionists in Libya killed off the political opposition. The revolutionists in Syria are having a hard time to kill the political oppositionwhich is why the REVOLUTIONISTS are killing the massacre women and children to blame it on the government so that fools around the world will help them, the so-called activists.
Revolutionaries in Syria are killing women and children? That would be funny if it weren't so sad. Where do you get your facts? The women and children that are being killed mercilessly and brutally are revolutionary women and children and are the family members of those brave men who chose publicly to stand up to the dictator Assad.
When eyewitnesses again and again report military and militias who sweep in after they bombard an opposition (revolutionary) town/village are they also lying to gain sympathy for shelling their own family and then magically joining the militia to carry torture and killings? With your pea size brain, I wouldn't be surprised if you say yes.
Mr. Zakaria is a Muslim provocateur spreading ideas of extremist Islam here in the US. Democracy in the Muslim world is a joke that cannot be achieved, stop fooling yourself and your readers Fareed.
Muslim provocateur? Why because he happens to be a Muslim?
That term itself is akin to reading any articles from a Jew defending Israel and calling them a Jewish provocateur.
Besides I rather have a Zakaria than a Jewish special interest provocateur Sheldon Adelson influencing and controlling my elected representatives and nation to do Israel's bidding with his billions to get us into more wars for Israel's sake, i.e. Iraq and now Iran, Syria, Lebanon...and in the future Turkey.
So you are a muslim provocateur!
The military dictatorship running Egypt who took out the old high court and put in their own that has dissolved parliment are the Muslim Brotherhood that Barack Obama aided them to power- the same Dictator Obama who tries to make up the laws in his head and tells us they are laws passed by Congress. I said DICTATOR Obama not President Obama.
So lets get this straight.
Obama aided Muslim brotherhood who were appointed by the Military Council but who dissolved an free election because the people voted for the Muslim Brotherhood?
Can you say I-G-N-O-R-A-N-C-E?
h
I don't understand where all of the hate is coming from. This is a decent article. His credentials are irrelevant; his ideas are what matter. Further, this is an opinion piece, it's not supposed to be straight up FACT. It's always wise to use facts to support an opinion though. His final statement "So if the next big idea to spring out of Egypt is a working Muslim democratic system, that would be seismic," is absolutely true. It would be seismic, because ultimately, it's never been done before. I won't say that it's impossible, but it's certainly a challenge. As he also said, religion (Islam) in Egypt must be moderated before any sort of successful democracy can gain power. Most of you that are commenting here need to read *everything* he says, and not just pick and choose what grinds your gears.
"But over time, I think that religiosity will be moderated, as it has in almost every Muslim country that has turned to democracy."
Such as? What, Indonesia, where non-Muslims are persecuted and a man gets sentenced to 30 months in jail for writing "God doesn't exist" on his Facebook page? (Oh yeah... they didn't kill him... I guess they are moderate, from an Islamic perspective.) Maybe Pakistan? You're kidding, right?
Rich,
Using isolated incident to paint a picture of persecution of Christians in a nation that is 10% Christian and well assimilated is erroneous and deliberate propaganda.
Indonesia is a secular country where Christians and Muslims and Buddhist and Hindus have lived peacefully for centuries.
Should we select the various firebombings of mosques in the US (in Florida, Tennessee, Texas, etc.) as examples of Muslim persecution in America?
"...a working Muslim democratic system..." heh – i think that kinda goes with statements like "jumbo shrimp", student teacher", "civil war" and last but not least: "a fine mess". oxy – MORON – ism at its best. Separation of religion and state is the only viable solution.
Typical ignorance of an American. No wonder you're country is going down fast. With an ignorant population, how will the US continue to dominate the world? Muslim democracies: Bangladesh, Turkey, Maldives, Lebanon, Malaysia, Indonesia, Senegal, Sierra Leone...and the rest of the Arab Spring revolt; a cry for democracy against dictators and thugs supported by Israeli loyalists like Sheldon Adelson who control US politicians with their purse strings.
Either Zakaria has no idea what the real problem is or he knows it and downplaying it. The real problem in Egypt is Islamic fundamentalism.
Funny, how you as a non-Egyptian outsider feels compelled to tell an Egyptian that his own Muslim religion is the problem. Why don't you keep to your self and deal with America's myriad of problems instead of lecturing other countries on who to elect as their leader. How did Iraq work out for you?
If Egypt is the heart and soul of the Arab world, what does that make Saudi ARABia?
The sleeping giant or Penguin.
They sized the land, from native Saudis, they brought foreigners to dig the Oil lands, they killed native Saudis to take the Oil revenues just for their own.
Before the Oil found in Saudi, there weren't Penguin dresses.
wow – i don't mean to disrespect the many commenters on this article but it almost seems like a church or republican party group has sent a flood of folks to this article to bash it. as i commented earlier, i have serious misgivings about what fareed is saying here – particularly and specifically the seeming implicit lack of separation of religion and government in a theoretical egyptian democracy.
those who are calling for the eradication of islam, etc are expressing a venomous racism or xenophobia and are being completely unrealistic. the fact is that islam is the religion of billions of people worldwide. most of those people are happy to be muslims, and probably the vast majority of those muslims are decent peace-loving people. the problem isn't islam, it's islamic extremists. think of them as if the KKK and militia groups in the US gained a huge following, even to the point of being a major problem for any government to handle, and had a huge network of militia training camps and started widespread terrorist activity – timothy mcveigh style. they may be christian. they may claim to be the 'true' christians. but that doesn't mean the rest of americans should be considered part of this group.
the real problem in the middle east is that the extremist islamic groups have become dangerously popular, and since they are angry and violent, moderate people – family people – are afraid to stand up against them and get drowned out. especially when it seems like these groups are set to become the rulers of the country.
the only way to fix this is for the common people to be better educated and for groups that advocate violence to be aggressively suppressed. not the whole religion, just the jihadist element. it should be seen as a crime to instigate violence, regardless of where it is directed. ideally, it should also be strongly discouraged for people to foment hatred against israel, america, jews, christians, etc. look at germany – it's a crime there to glorify nazism.
tl;dr – i know
'a working muslim democratic system" what planet is Fareed from ...all they want to do is rule the world by sharia law not democracy...when is this guy going to open his eyes....the brotherhood ...yeah thats what they want ,democracy in middle east...maybe they should partner up with iran and and really get the movement rolling..i cant belive people really dont see whats happening there....
A blend of church and state will lead to oppression of the "unbelievers". Our founders knew this because they had experienced it first hand in England. The Egyptians know it because of the many examples all around them in the middle east. Freedom will not come through the MB.
So far from reality
Democracy isn't perfect (by a long stretch) but it beats these guys and their ultimatum-giving, male-dominated Machiavellian-oriented, war-making mentality by a thousand miles. Until they unhook the law-makers from the dogma followers (separate mosque and state) they will continue to cause others to suffer. It’s fairly ironic that iron-clad social and religious dictates (designed to control the population) often result in catastrophic failures for the ruling class. You'd think that they might have learned from the North American experience but they only have vacation property here...where they send their children for a proper education and a taste of freedom.
As most informed analysts and observers have noted that with the election of an extremist Islamic organization like the Mosllem Brotherhood, the gains made over the past 1400 years would essentially be wiped out and the country plunged back into the 8th Century.
Like it or not, the courts had to protect the Egyptians from the own ill-informed choices before those choices came back to bite them in the butt, domestically and internationally. As to the Moslem Brotherhood and their Salafist ideology, I say good riddance.
The Middle East is full of Clowns and Buffoons and always will be...Its a way of life!
I think that moderate liberal Egyptians probably feel the same way about the elections that brought the MB to prominence in Parliament with a strong contingent of even more religiously extreme Salafists in 2nd place.
Whose revolution is it? What is the purpose of the Revolution? Can you protect the rights of the individual against the will or even the tyranny of the majority? We struggle with these things in the West, but having attempted to separate Church and State, and having we have a shot at finding a workable balance.
The Egyptian Revolution to oust Mubarak started out without the involvement of the Muslim Brotherhood. But a democratic vote always gives the right to choose to the people, ultimately.
hoo boy. More extremism. But in this case, it's not between left and right – it's between religious conservatives and secular authoritarians. What a choice!
Hmm...the Moslem Brotherhood have made it known that the capital of Egypt once they get elected will be Jerusalem, I wonder how they're going to make that happen. Even more so if those promoting democracy and supporting the so-called right to choose their own course independent of outside interference are also supporting the right of Egyptian Salafists to declare and make war against Israel.
"The Brotherhood reacted in its statement by charging that progress made since Mubarak was ousted was being "wiped out and overturned.""
What's the progress they've been making?
Mohammed Morsi was introduced to Egyptian voters as the man who'll create a "United States of Arabs", destroy Israel, establish Jerusalem as the capital of the "United States of Arabs" and initiate the Caliphate
In the speech that launched Morsi's campaign, the crowd was encouraged to brandish their weapons, be martyrs for Jerusalem, "Banish the sleep from the eyes of all Jews", "Come on, you lovers of martyrdom, you are all Hamas", "We shall pray in Jerusalem, or else we shall die as martyrs on its threshold".
Here's the speech that launched Morsi's campaign (Al-Nas TV (Egypt) – May 1, 2012)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QI3wG3loKlA#!
And there are those who tell us the Muslim Brotherhood is "moderate".
Is THIS the progress that they've been making?
There seems to be a significant amount of confusion on this forum. I'll make it simple.
Just because a country is a democratic republic does not mean that it will do everything the United States believes it should do. In fact, they tend to be more difficult to bribe than corrupt dictators that need our weapons to stay in power, so the United States has less influence over Democratic governments than dictators.
Democracy is the best thing for the people of any country. In the long run, Democracy in foreign governments is in the best interest of the United States too. In the short run, even or perhaps especially in democratic countries, the rights of minorities will be violated and foreign policy toward Israel and the United States will be hostile if that's what the people want. If you really want to protect the rights of minorities, a top down, big government, military dictatorship won't cut it. You need a grassroots change in the way people think. Democracy can help that, but it takes a while. It took the United States almost a century to abolish slavery, and almost two to pass the civil rights act of 1964. We paved the way, but Egypt may still require a couple of years.
Some have argued that several "Democracies" have become theocracies, specifically citing Iran. There were several key differences in Iran.
1. We had originally installed the Shah of Iran, replacing their democracy. That put a damper on the new government wanting to do anything like the US when the Shah was overthrown.
2. The Egyptian revolution was far less bloody. Civil war often brings the most radical of leaders to power. Mubarak stepped down before the bloodbath. Because of this, there is less hate toward the western backed government than there was in Iran.
3. The Egyptian military is still in power. This hedges the Islamists, but as Zakaria noted, also risks maintenance of a military dictatorship.
4. Other autocrats still have support. This is largely a result of the military playing politics, blaming the economic instability on the revolutionaries and have intentionally let some protests get out of hand to justify crackdowns. Some people want everything to settle down so they can make a living again like there were under Mubarak and associate that kind of stability with the autocrats that used to be in power..
The only way a democracy became a theocracy in Iran is by the religious leader stealing the government in the name of Allah. People are easy to trick and manipulate when they are indoctrinated five times a day and kept ignorant through a lack of education.
religion is democracy's enemy. prove me wrong.
nothing? must have made a point.
I do agree with all the ideas you've introduced for your post. They are very convincing and can certainly work. Nonetheless, the posts are too quick for starters. Could you please prolong them a little from subsequent time? Thanks for the post.