Editor's note: Soner Cagaptay is a senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and a GPS contributor. You can find all his blog posts here. Col. Richard Outzen is a foreign area officer in the U.S. Army. The views expressed in this article are solely those of Soner Cagaptay and Col. Richard Outzen.
By Soner Cagaptay and Col. Richard Outzen, Special to CNN
Soner Cagaptay
Only a few years ago, Turkey’s commitment to NATO was in doubt. Some were even suggesting that Turkey would abandon the alliance — or that at least, the alliance should seriously lower its expectations.
But recent events in Syria, including last week's downing of a Turkish plane by Damascus, and Turkish-Iranian competition in the Middle East have been increasing NATO's worth for the Turks.
Turkey has also signed up to join NATO’s missile-defense project, putting its name under what has been NATO’s core mission for decades: meeting common threats with common action by democratic states. (In this modern-day example, it’s Iranian missiles as the threat in question, not Russian tanks.)
For the moment, at least, Turkey has found comfort in NATO’s security. But Ankara’s long-term commitment to the alliance should not be taken for granted, because Turkey has at least two strategic alternatives to NATO.
The first is remaining ideologically agnostic, grouping with other emerging economic powers to maintain a truly nonaligned and balanced strategic approach. This entails acting in unison with the BRICs — Brazil, Russia, India and China. (Though the “R” in that acronym could go missing if Turkish-Russian differences on Syria are exacerbated further.)
The second alternative is to recognize that Turkey has more in common with other emerging democracies than with economically dynamic authoritarian regimes. This form of nonalignment would place Turkey in a wider group referred to as IBSATI — India, Brazil, South Africa, Turkey and Indonesia. Although IBSATI would leave more room for Turkish cooperation with the West than BRIC alignment, it could still preclude joint coordination with NATO.
For now, BRIC remains an analytic tool for investors more than for geo-strategists, and IBSATI is more of a pipe dream. Nevertheless, NATO should jealously promote and guard its “leading acronym” status in Ankara.
Buoyed by record-breaking economic growth over the past decade, the Turks are, once again, feeling powerful. Consequently, many Turks view world politics according to their desire to become a global player. So to maintain Turkey’s long-term commitment to NATO, the alliance should consider making Ankara feel important.
From Crisis to Cooperation: Turkey's Relations with Washington and NATO
It could, for instance, design a program for new democracies in the Arab world, similar to its post-Soviet Partnership for Peace initiative, and grant Turkey status as the lead nation in this endeavor. A NATO mechanism with a heavy Turkish flavor would excite far fewer antibodies among Arab partners than bilateral security cooperation programs run by individual Western nations. It would also give NATO an opportunity to invest in Turkey without a large armed presence.
For its part, the United States could cement Ankara’s commitment to NATO by protecting Turkey’s most vulnerable security flank: the Kurdistan Workers Party. Whenever Washington has appeared tone-deaf to Turkish concerns over Kurdish separatism and terrorism, as it did in the run-up to the Iraq war, Ankara’s response has been predictably bad.
On a practical level, NATO has made it clear that it sees Turkey as an indispensable member. During the recent NATO summit in Chicago, Turkey featured prominently in discussions of the alliance’s future strategic posture and defense capabilities. This conviction was further underlined with NATO’s recent decision to switch its land forces headquarters from Ramstein, Germany, to Izmir, Turkey.
Indeed, Turkey remains a necessary cornerstone of NATO as much in 2012 as it did in 1952. This is the silver lining of the Arab Spring: Turkey’s commitment to NATO, now revived, can be boosted further.
The views expressed in this article are solely those of Soner Cagaptay and Col. Richard Outzen.
© 2012 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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i'm not sure the point of NATO is to align with other similarly situated economies that share economic interest. Admittedly, the purpose has morphed since the end of the Soviet era, but I don't see how aligning themselves with South Africa, Brazil, India, and Indonesia can be viewed as a "strategic alternative" to NATO. None of those countries can project power in the region.
India and Brazil, maybe. I agree that Indonesia and SA couldn't, though.
Turkey will not leave the Nato. As a matter of fact, it's going to join the E.U. as well. It's a bridge-builder between Asia and Europe, secularism and Islamism. Turkey and the E.U. benefit from each other economically and politically.
About anybody should be able to join EU now: as long as he promises to bring two reasonably wealthy friends with him. Or just two friends...
As long as they are not Greek or Cypriot.
)
Turkey should leave NATO. Turkey has refused to cooperate with NATO in Libya. Turkey is now refusing to cooperate with NATO in Syria. This means that Turkey is a member of interest-free. I propose that Syria become a member of NATO after liberation of Syria from the Assad regime. Syria has a geopolitical location is very important for NATO. We can liberation Syria by Jordan and Iraq without Turkey. Bye Turkey .
Turkey was cooperated with NATO in Libya war, participated sea operations and NATO air Operations run from Izmir, Turkey. A lot of people are ignorant and uneducated about what happens around the world.Also Turkey has the only nation in the region stand up against Syrian regime. Turkey is the one suffers here from Syria for years, because of the support for Kurdish terrorists from Bassad regime and almost went to a war with Syria a decade ago for that reason. Just a week ago Syrian supported Kurdish terrorists killed 8 Turkish soldiers in the Eastern border of the Turkey. Syrian joining to NATO is the funniest joke I have heard recently. It is like Iran joining to NATO . Just my observations.
syria would never be allowed in NATO,and the very thought could inspire Russia and China to go to war to stop this from happening......turkey leaving NATO would be like france leaving NATO-not going to happen.Turkey has one of the largest militaries in the alliance,and has a key strategic position in relation to the Middle East and Russia.
Someone needs look up some history. I think the smart people here would appreciate people posting here to at least back up their opinions with fact.
NATO members contribute as they deem necessary, all NATO members do not collectively contribute to every mission. Turkey is the largest military after US in NATO and one of the most strategic members, and Turks are among the top contributors. There are a lot of insignificant and non-contributing members in NATO if downsizing was an argument but Turkey is not one of them. You are an enemy of Turkey and posting comments driven with your hatred, your comments are driven with wishful thinking, please do not thrash the forums with such random nonsense.
In my opinion, Turkey should leave NATO and join one or form a non-agressive organization with peace-loving countries of Asia and Africa. NATO's only role remained after the end of the cold war is to keep bombing Asian countries one by one to the ground. This kind of action creating all sorts of problems and hindering progress in these countries. May be who knows this is the only objective of NATO and western policy is to keep Asia and Africa backward forever??? We the western nations first sow the seeds of enemity between countries by selling arms to opposing parties and then go play good cop and bad cop, i.e., pretentious peace role there. We should stay out of their problems and let them sort out their own problems.
turkey may have been entered the syria's Air space otherwise the F4 phantom wouldn't have been down so during vietnam war, there were a lot of F4 phantoms went down by S.7, S 6 missiles Russian made.
What an uneducated comment, your erudition speaks for itself.
NATO is not a economically motivated alliance primarily, but it makes it much easier to form alliances, cooperate, and agree on goals and objectives when you have something in common with your allies. Thats why prison gangs form primarily according to race, and why immigrant communities form enclaves. Its about having something in common
Mr . Shafak , P.M Erdogan is very weak. In his speech today, He admit that the Syrian helicopters penetrated Turkish airspace 5 times!! Last April, Syrian forces opened fire on the border, 2 civilian Turks were wounded, 3 of Syrian refugees were killed. Two days ago, the Syrian regime shot down a Turkish plane! Perhaps Erdogan is waiting Assad regime bombing Ankara!!
Erdogan said " Some countries want we fight Syria, because our economy is strong !! " . But I want to inform you that the war will be short, "one week" , because the Assad regime is very weak, so your economy will remain strong. Remember that Turkey refused to help the U.S in the Iraq war, and now refuses to help NATO's against worst political regime in the world! My question is : Why Turkey in NATO?
Please, for ethical reasons, rescued people from the Syrian massacres since more than year .
All your posts, every single one of them, are strongly anti-Turkish. Your whole motive here is to badmouth Turkey. You are not a neutral third party, you are obviously an arch enemy of Turkey and the Turks which means that you completely lack credibility and you should carry your lies and propaganda elsewhere.
Why do you keep lying, Holland?
Mr. Hollan, America created the mess in Iraq by invading against the will of majority of the countries of the world. And now once again we are seeing this is being played in Syria. Who is supplying arms and intelligence to Syrian rebels? Nobody is fool....everybody know who is behind all this calamity in Syria. I am not talking or sympathising with Assad but thinking of thousamds of innocent lives being lost there! For what? To topple the regime that west or some Arabs don't like.......or to create a sunni dictator instead of Alawite dictator???? This is what west like to see at the expense of thousands of lost lives? Come'on guys talk about love and peace instead of killing grounds.
Flying a war plane into another country's airspace is an act of war. If Mexico flew a war plane into US airspace you better believe the US would either shoot the planes down or send up fighters to escort it back to Mexico. If the Mexican fighter fired missiles on US citizens you better believe the American public would demanding heads for their governments failure to keep citizens safe from these kinds of threats. Confidence would be destroyed, like The Fed has done with our economy. Once that happens revolution is inevitable. How the media can spin Turkey committing acts of war against Syria as a negative on Syria seems absurd and only underscores how the mainstream media is detached from the implausibility of their own NATO scripted narratives.
The U.S. would send a warning and then send planes to intercept it. If the planes were not able to make comminication with the plane, there is a good chance they would try to communicate with the Mexican airforce, who they have an open channel with at all times. If all of that failed, they could shoot it down after considering it to be a rogue pilot. Syria simply shot the Turkish plane down with no communication. Not much of a comparison.
On 9/11 four supposedly unarmed civilian planes attacked targets in the United States. On the basis of that, Syria would be negligent not to shoot down any unauthorized plane over its territory.
Joe and MPanc are the same person along with about 5 other sockpuppet accounts on this thread spewing lies about Turkey in broken English that make no sense whatsoever. I wonder who is paying him?
The Turkish plane was unarmed, so your 'fired missiles' comment is a clear red herring.
The Syrians made no attempt to communicate with the Turkish plane, nor with the Turkish government. They did not 'scramble fighters'. The *incursion* was made in error, and in fact the Turkish aircraft was already out of Syrian territory when the Syrians shot it down.
Your entire post is a defense of the indefensible based upon a whole set of false-to-fact analogies.
> The Turkish plane was unarmed,
how Syrians were supposed to know that at the moment ? a lot of planes were more clearly civilian and more clearly unarmed – think KAL007 shot by xUSSR and Iran Air Flight 655 shot by USA and
> The *incursion* was made in error,
nope... it was RF-4E... which is a reconnaissance military aircraft... sent by Turkey on a purpose... to check Syrians air defences... doing US/Nato bidding there... creating causes to attack Syria...
DP, will you please stop spewing all of these lies here under multiple sockpuppet accounts? I get someone paid you to do it but you are wasting their money as everyone knows your broken English propaganda is nonsense. Find somewhere else to blather your hate!
were you present there when shooting of Turkish plane was happening? No, you are just mouthing off what you heard from NATO's brief.....this all could be bull and pretense for escalation of war between Turkey and Syria. Since west could win bombing Syria in the security council so now they are going NATO route to attack Syria. Because in NATO there is no fear of Russian or Chinese veto!
The US-Mexico analogy is weak because the US government is not currently fighting for its life in a civil war with the rebels being given support by foreign powers.
Neither is Syria, who is fighting its own people with military hardware and slaughtering innocent civilians by the thousands.
Just stop talking its so obvious to anyone that serves or has served in the military that you don't have a clue what your talking about or you would know that violations of airspace happen a lot and very rarely end with the shooting down of a jet. Russia has done it to the U.S. on more than one occasion and I'm certain Mexico has as well but your basing your opinion (which lacks facts) on the fact that you don't hear about those incursions which really only means that they end 100% of the time in a warning or once U.S. fighters escort the aircraft violating our airspace out into international waters/airspace.
My Dad used to tell me stories of his F14 squadron off the JFK escorting Soviet Bear bombers away from carrier groups and NATO airspace, including the US. Crazy times thems were
I have not served and even I can tell this anti-Turkey guy is just lying through his teeth about most everything he says here. You can tell he is running 3 or 4 accounts from his similarly broken English. I wonder who pays him or what part of Assad's government he works for to spew lies about Turkey when the Assad regime is wholly at fault. Not even Iran would shoot without warning like that!
It is not an "act of war". In fact, it happens all the time. We don't shoot first and ask questions later. We give warnings and scramble our own aircraft for escort duty. It is good thing you aren't in command of our Air Force.
The Soviet shot down Kal 007 when in entered Soviet air space over eastern Russia. An American congressman was onboard. We did not invoke Chapter 5 of the NATO Charter on that occassion.
Because NATO action is "supposed to" be restricted to responses to hostile actions taking place in European or American territories or interests in the Atlantic north of the Tropic of Cancer. The Russian downing of that airliner did not fall within the "treaty area" – let alone the fact that it was a Korean plane – anymore than the United Kingdom's liberation of the Falklands from Argentine invaders did. Technically, NATO actions in Bosnia, Kosovo, Libya, and Afghanistan are all outside the NATO Charter's stipulated interests and unjustifiable and illegal under its framework.
> We don't shoot first and ask questions later.
sure.. tell then to the relatives of Iran Air Flight 655, dude...
Pancreas: Why do you say flying an airplane into another country's airspace is an act of war? What legal or historical authority do you have for that statement?
Do you REALLY believe that if a Mexican plane overflew the U.S. border the U.S. would shoot it down? Why do you believe that? According to the Houston Chronicle on-line, in the last 17 months there have been 10 incursions of Texas airspace by Mexican military helicopters, which resulted in U.S. Rep. Ted Poe issuing a statement to the press about the matter. (That's just military helicopters; the number of fixed-wing overflights is not included.) The U.S. has not fired on any of those aircraft in U.S. airspace. Not once.
> Pancreas: Why do you say flying an airplane into another country's airspace is an act of war?
it was a reconnaissance military aircraft... at approached Syrian borders to provoke their air defences to fully switch on their radar stations so that necessary, current parameters of their work are collected and US/Nato can have better intel for an attack on Syria later.... that is what US was doing w/ Soviets and vice versa... you provoke the enemy to collect the necessary intel... Turkey is a member of a military alliance hostile to Syria.. Soviets were shooting down a lot of US planes crossing their borders and rightfully so.
Research how many times Turkey has invaded air space of countries like Greece, Cyprus, etc. Happens almost on a weekly basis. What a double standard!
Actually, nothing you have said under any of your sockpuppet accounts on this thread is true, "Joe" so just don't bother lying and changing account names, OK? Tell me the last time the US, Turkey or even Iran simply shot down an aircraft without warning like that. Your empty hatred of Turkey blinds you. Just go on and get bent, KTHXBYE!
Actually Neennee Joe is quite right. Turkey and Greece share a disputed sea border (Turkey doesn't recognize Greece's. international waters so Turkey regularly invades Greece airspace over the Aegean) and as for Cyprus, Turkey possesses half the island illegally (only Turkey recognizes the 'independence' on the northern half) even though it belongs to the republic of Cyprus. With both countries, Turkey violates their airspace so its hypocritical of them to cry foul with Syria. Turkey has always acted like a child with foreign affairs. Bully others but when the same is done to you, you cry about it.
This is simply wrong as a matter of international law, aviation custom, and very common practices around the world. Mexican and U.S. planes ROUTINELY violate the others air space. I personally see a story about it several times a year at least and a lot more than that must be occurring (obviously). There is a well recognized international protocol. First you try to contact the plane. Then you send jets to intercept. You don't just shoot planes out of the sky with anti-aircraft artillery. Turkey should at least conduct air and missile strikes to degrade those AA batteries. I agree with the father of one of the dead Turks who said it is not be worth war but it certainly demands a response.
THANK YOU!!
Your argument fails. The Mexican Army has been caught going into the USA all the time and it is not uncommon for shots to be fired at Americans across the border from Mexico. Yet nothing happens.
Mexico has crossed the US border before, and so has Canada. We also crossed borders too. Almost a year ago 4 humvess full of Mexican soliders crossed into Texas and would you be believe that the US did not kill them?
There are no major issue between 3 Amigos. But, with Cuba?
Turkey not only has cultural ties to Europe and therefore NATO, but also is in the same region. I am not sure how Turkey would find benefit in an alliance that has no real military agreements (BRIC) and no ability to transport their military hardware in any other then a regional conflict (with the exception of Russia, though very limited). I think the bigger question is whether NATO will continue to exist in its current form, or become irrelevant. This is the greater concern.
What ties? As a hostile invader?
The big game is on the scene.Close İsrael-Russia relations, secret Iran-israel connections, Neocons, and the believers of Armegeddon are playing role in Turkey-Syria conflict.I believe the turkish plane was shot by Russian navy which are now in that area and Syria had to say only "Sorry".It is time for World to wake up.Otherwise it will we too late.And one more thing to point out.This dangereous actions started just after Bilderberg meeting that held last month
Time to see your doctor for some new medication.
Bill, you go take a pill. Fatih's argument makes sense! This shooting of planes is part of war game that is being played and will end up taking thousands of lives.......not a single American or European will die.......it will be Middle-Eastern lives that will be lost!
OK. so what is the problem??????????
...Sorry one more thing during this crisis the head of Russia Mr.Putin was visiting Israel and I suppose they were watching the news on the screen together with Mr. Peres.I only wonder what they sad "Yes we got it" or "No we have to try again" and for the writer of this article "Soner Cagaptay", he is not known good in Turkey because of his relations with anti-democratic powers.
wow, just how many sockpuppet accounts are you going to lie with in such ridiculously broken English, you silly liar?
NATO is a mutual defense organization, not an economic bloc. There is no rival to NATO in terms of military expenditures and ability to project power. No member of NATO has ever been invaded. The Turks live in the world's toughest neighborhood. Turkey isn't leaving NATO any time soon.
The real question is how did Turkey get invited to NATO in the first place? They deny genocide against Armenians and Greeks. They have been violating the rights of the Kurdish minority for years. They have occupied the north of Greek Cyprus in violation of International Law and the United Nations Security council yet NATO allows them to be a member? I never understood how Greece ever let Turkey join NATO without a veto or leaving. Greece & Cyprus could easily join their Orthodox brothers Serbia & Russia as an anti-Turkey bock if need be. Turkey better quit messing with everyone in their neighborhood because no one currently likes them.
Apparently it looks you did not study your lessons very well. Moreover, those claims are very old-fashioned and based on just political propaganda which are usually spoken out by some people who have anti-Turkish beliefs. There are hundreds of anti-thesis and facts against your very"shallow" and non-academic claims however this is not the right place to discuss. .Just a very small example; You should first read the Treaty of Lausanne in which you can find which party of the war accepts that they killed many Turks and destroyed/burned houses in Western Anatolia. Conclusion, I strongly recommend you to keep your hostility to yourself and try to be more reasonable and logical, since it is obvious that you can not hide your anger and prejudices even in such a blog.
Mr Ryan . It shows that you have never read a history . Its Turkey that let Greece re-join Nato after they have left .Go Read Please . Also go read cyprus history what was happenning before Turkey came to save turkish lifes in North before greeks killed them all.
Turks have NO cultural and historical ties to any European country, and they will never be accepted as European. Also, they have no rightful claim to any part of Anatolia; they are Mongol invaders who were contained there by the Europeans. The fact that they remained on Anatolia after WWI was the result of the duplicitous nature of the British, French and Americans who traded principle for land concessions, especially those areas containing oil. The result? The depopulation of the Armenians from their historic homeland, and the current connivance of airheads who treat this issue as historical rather than legal.
Try deleting 'Turks' and writing 'Jews'or 'Blacks' into your comment and then see how it looks. This is not just nonsense, it is poisonous nonsense which suggests that somewhere among Turkey's neighbours, there are some very sick people.
Turks are as European as Greeks, Bulgarians, Romanians, etc. since they are very similar. Armenians are Middle Eastern, they are like Arabs and Jews. Turks have proven themselves in the past, they had the world's largest empire for centuries. Turks prove themselves today, they are a G20 member with the 2nd largest growth rate after China. Armenians have been failures in the past, they are failures today, they always blame others for their own mistakes and cry. Yet, you see yourself in a position to criticize them? Grow up, realize who you are, and move on.
There is no such thing as "Middle Eastern." There are Afro-Asiatics: Arabs and Jews. Mongoloids: Turks. Caucasians: Armenians, Greeks. If you think that you are "European" as a Turk, you are deluding yourself per the laughable educational and legal system in Turkey. No European will accept a Turk as European. The only reason Germans let you in their country was because of labor shortage, and they do not allow you a nationality. As to Greeks and Armenians, they have a 3,000+ year history in Anatolia, which you try to erase because of your collective sociopathy. You are a nomadic transplant with barbaric tendencies and have offered nothing to Western society in terms of civilization and culture, i.e., science, arts, medicine, literature (in case you still think of yourself as "mighty"). Thus, you have no ties to Anatolia, except in your delusional state. There are plenty of central asian mongol countries to which you may migrate where you share linguistic and cultural ties, but you insist in your continued robbery. The only reason anybody tolerates your presence is because of geopolitics.
anatolia: As an Armenian, you are not in a position to talk about who is European and who is not. In fact, nobody cares about what you say. You have always been failures, you have always stirred up the regions you are in. You attack others and then act like victims and cry when you are responded to. Armenia is in African standards, Armenians have no say in any issue, nobody cares about your lies and propaganda. Stop thinking highly of yourselves, realize who you are, face the truth, and come to terms with it. You are nobody, your country is nothing. You are known to be cheaters and deceivers in areas you live in. Southern Californians know you well, every household in Glendale receives welfare checks, Glendale is a major source of insurance and all sorts of other fraud. Nobody will believe you or even slightly take you seriously. Get lessons from the past and try to work towards good for once, if you are slightly capable.
The only two times in my life I have been called a "stupid American" were both in Los Angeles and both times I was called this by Armenian immigrants. I don't have a lot of sympathy for the Turks (as Ottomans they were barbaric filth, don't forget Americas first war as a nation was against the Ottomans in what is now Libya) of of Armenians who are arrogant to say the least, and have some of the most violent street gangs in LA.
We the TRUE European from Aryan race, we said no to Turkey, when it keep submitted applications.
However, some different issues that caused trouble among Europeans helps Turkey, silently to inserted itself without European interest. Since then, it remained as is.
Frankly, there are no clear approval for Turkey in EU.
Not to worry. Every 10 Years, we pure White race do have renaissance time. This is arm struggle by minimizing enemies around the globe.
We will bomb Iran and Syria until 2020. Then we will move to attack Egypt and Turkey until 2030. Then we will bombarded Pakistan and -– until 2040.........
Yes, you bombed every musleum country and got bonus.Now ıt is time to get up, because the dream has just finished.İf you ask the reason why you have seen this dream because your blanket had felt down 5 minutes ago and your ass was open.Thank to me.Otherwise you could easily get cold .
Turkey needs NATO more than the other way around. If Erdogan wasn't so Islamic in his thinking, NATO would be quicker to support Turkey. In any case, Turkey hasn't been attacked, a jet near Syrian airspace being shot down isn't enough for NATO to come to Turkey. IN fact, it should be clear that the last think Syrian wants is for NATO to become involved in it's civil war.
Every single member state needs NATO more than the other way around, that's what alliances are all about. But NATO needs Turkey more than majority of other members, and that is what matters.
Amina Koyim
Turkey should leave NATO. Turkey has refused to cooperate with NATO in Libya. Turkey is now refusing to cooperate with NATO in Syria. This means that Turkey is a member of interest-free. I propose that Syria become a member of NATO after liberation of Syria from the Assad regime. Syria has a geopolitical location is very important for NATO. We can liberation Syria by Jordan and Iraq without Turkey. Bye Bye Turkey .
You forgot to mention the Iraq War. Remember when Turkey changed its mind and refused to let an American division to transit its territory? We wanted a two front attack, but were forced to attack from Kuwait with one division.
agreed .
You are clueless, your ignorance is ridiculous. Turkey was the major ally of the Americans in the Iraqi war, Turkish assistance was more crucial than even the UK and certainly far more valuable than any other so-called allies US had. Without Turkish help, if Turks didn't open their land and airspace for the transfer of US soldiers, equipment, and supplies, the war would have cost the US three times more and would be far more risky with the use of alternate routes in a region surrounded with enemies.
BS. The Turks changed their mind at the last minute and refused to allow the 4th Infantry Division to invade Iraq from the north. They had to reboard ships in Turkish ports with all of their equipment and sail through the Suez Canal around to Kuwait to enter Iraq after the major fighting was over. No, the Turks are untrustworthy back stabbers, and that is using the most polite language I could come up with.
Turks = muslims = liars = backstabbers = not to be trusted
Ian, I advise you to go and come together with Anders Behring Breivik because you are in same category with this ideas.But I only say "Allah seni ıslah etsin".If you want to learn the meaning go and translate it with google if your brain still working.
You are ungrateful. You are an enemy of Turkey and the Turks posting lies and propaganda with your hatred.
Wow, it was amazing how you were able to fit 2 or more lies in each sentence, wingnut!
No one believes you and your nonsensical broken English makes you sound nearly as foolish as your ridiculous lies.
Get a life...
this is in response to the guy who goes by joe, holland, and other names who blindly hates on Turkey and spews ridiculous lies. I wonder who he thinks he's fooling?
Would Turkey leave NATO? - The answer is solid NO, and the overruling principle in this answer is that NATO is not only military and political organization, but it is also a technological alliance. Turkey does not produce war planes, advanced missiles, satellite guidance technology, and many other things. Through NATO Turkey has access to all of these and can participate in their development. Without NATO Turkish war machinery will become obsolete within the next 10 years.
Yes, it seems that Turkey got a "tone it down, Tayyip" signal, but so what?
Yes, some NATO members are more equal that the other in sense that some senior members can initiate frivolous wars and all others must express their enthusiasm of being members of "coalitions of willing", but so what?
Yes, some members are more willing, and some more reluctant, and some are willing, but impotent, but so what?
You do realize that there are other sources of military hardware other than NATO. Russia's so desperate for money that they're selling just about any weapons system you could want, and China is starting to sell more and more advanced weapons. Not to mention Turkey produces a rather large amount of its own equipment. So, really, while Turkey does need NATO, its not for that reason.
Technology is not unique reason, but if you note the recent outcome of Turkey buying attack helicopters, the choice was among US Apache, Russian K-52, and European. In the end, after a long hesitation, Turkey preferred European. I doubt that this was done on purely military and technical consideration, because I do not believe that the European helicopter was the best on technical merits, however the deal comes with the option that some of them will be produced in Turkey, hence some transfer of technology will take place. US and Russian deal did not have this.
As for China, I believe that Turkey is sufficiently technologically advanced to not be interested in this kind of trade: after all, and unlike all other kind of trades, weapon trade is characterized by the fact that countries usually buy those weapons which they can not produce themselves. China and Russia (and US to a large degree as well) are characterized by selling weapons to "end customers", with some difference between the three being that for China it is purely business (sell to virtually everybody who pays with no/little political strings or conditions attached); for Russia it is business with some political element to make (i.e., unlike Soviet Union, Russia no longer gives credits to buyers of weapons only to write off the debts later), and for US is is mainly a political instrument (i.e., selling weapons to democracies by issuing credits which will be almost certainly written off is a normal practice). European weapons trade on the other hand is very different: there is no well defined single dominating center. Instead, Europeans often take expense sharing approach where several countries join money and effort for a common project. I think, this is very attractive for a country like Turkey.
Turkey produces F-16's under llicense from Lockheed-Martin. They are also beginning to build their own warships. Find out what the Milgem class are for example.
TUrkey is a ENEMY (ISLAMIST) nation, it should not have been permited to join nato in the first place.
One thing is for sure and it is that you are an enemy of Turkey and the Turks. Please carry your propaganda elsewhere. Turkey has been an ally of the US and Europe since its foundation, Turks have always sided with the western nations and been at odds with those they call enemy. You have got to be an Armenian or Jew, you have no credibility, you are not in a position to decide in such matters since you've never proven to be decent races, you've always been failures and cry-babies, you blame others for your mistakes at all times.
a jew eh...someone is a little bit anti-semetic in his/her leanings yes? I was just reading the posts and actually thought you seemed quite smart...but no...your a biggot and racist...must be a jew...your not much of a person and i can't hold your opinion to be worth anything and thats too bad...
jared: There are a bunch of Jewish propagandists on CNN forums that infiltrate articles related to Turkey to post lies and propaganda. Jews are anti-everyone and they see themselves in a position to attack and badmouth others in an ongoing basis. Whenever anyone rightfully criticizes them in return, they accuse them of being anti-semitic. That game is wearing out, nobody falls for it anymore. If Jews stop their hatred and violence, others will stop getting back at them using their methods. If you continue, everyone else continues. Rest is a joke.
You guys should go to Holywood,
Great acting!
Script, Script, Script.
You guys seem to think it is OK to disgorge all kinds of crap about Jews but you complain when Muslims get it back.
If you cannot say anything nice, dont say anything at all.
When Turkey joined NATO in 1952 the country was ruled by a very secular military dictatorship. It's membership in NATO was vital to securing NATO's southern flank and allowing NATO, in time of war, to cut off the old USSR's access to the Mediterranean Sea. Turkey controls the Bosporus, and denying the USSR access to that waterway was a key part of NATOs defensive strategy. There was no Islamic movement back then. The Arab world was ruled by secular nationalists. Nasser had only just come to power, and the other major Arab rules such as the Assads or the Hashemite rulers of Jordan were entirely secular, as was Iran. It was the failure of the secular Arab nationalists to defeat Israel in combat and the seeming ability of islamist groups to do harm to Israel where the armies of the Arab dictators failed that gave the islamist movement credibility and made them popular. All of that came well after Turkey joined NATO.
New Syria after Assad regime, will become a friend of Israel when Syria becomes a member of the NATO .
Johan' won't happen. These rebels hate Israel much more than Assad did
Your information is incomplete . National Council of the Syrian " opposition " is a friend of Israel .
Joe, Johan and DHolland are the same person. I wonder how much Assad is paying him to spew lies about Turkey?
Syria is an Arabic country and neither Arabs nor Jews will ever become a member of NATO. NATO will not let those two middle eastern races in, otherwise it would be in constant state of war.
And Turkey is Islamic country!!
The Turks aren't Arabs. There is a significant difference between them. Btw, most Arabs hate the Turks for what they did to them as the Ottoman Empire. There is little love between them.
Would Turkey ever leave NATO? It would be great if it did but too good to be true. For the first time in the annals of mankind, we have an alliance without an enemy. It's all about politics and big business! In fact, if I were the Prime Minister of Great Britain, the first thing that I would do is to pull that country out of NATO altogether and work to promote world peace rather that support the inhumain policies of Washington D.C. such as the use of those ungodly drones!
Turkey will never leave NATO. What a waste of time writing this artical
Turkey should leave NATO if it did not cooperate with NATO .
Turkey is a top contributing member of NATO and it also has more strategic importance than majority of NATO members. Not every member collectively contributes to every mission, Turkey -like any other nation- will not be part of every NATO mission. You are posting with bad intentions against Turkey, it's wishful thinking on your part because you are an enemy of Turks.
Whether Turkey stays in NATO is irrelevant. Why the United States stays in NATO should be our concern. We've been at war ever since 1941. When is it going to stop? How many Afghani, Iraqi, Libyan, Yemeni, Pakistani people must we kill to satisfy our bloodlust? How many widows and cripples must we suffer here at home before we realize it is not worth the cost.
Why does it cost us billions of dollars to train the Afghanis, and the Taliban spend next to nothing. Why did the Iraquis ask us to leave?
We have plenty of resources here at home. We don't need to send aircraft carrier groups around the globe in search of trouble. We are the most hated people on the planet. This is not a new nor original thought. Ever hear of the movie, The Ugly American?
I agree with you Joe. We have enough of our own problems to take care! Why bother going around the globe killing people?
Turkey should've left NATO when NATO did not do anything to help Turkey, not even a statement to condemn Israel when the Israeli IDF killed the 19 Turkish citizens in International water.
Good riddance to bad Turk rubbish. Turkey is now just a self serving, Islamist provacateur, with dreams of empire.
Turkey, you flew a war plane into someone's territory. You have no business to expect it won't be shot down, esp. when you're subsidizing an armed rebellion in that country. You're committing multiple acts of war. Tough luck. Keep your military planes out of other countries' airspace, particularly ones you are trying to violently overthrow by proxy.
It accidentally and briefly entered Syrian airspace. Syria did not follow the procedure and shot it without prior warning despite the fact that the plane was correcting its route. They were supposed to warn with radio, then if it remains in their airspace they are supposed to initiate planes to force it to leave or land, only after that can they shoot it down. Turkish plane was unarmed and it was in Syrian airspace accidentally and temporarily for seconds. That is how it is an act of hostility and Syria is at fault. You need to interpret the situation correctly or not post if you're incapable.
so, Syria didn't follow the standard operating procedures about shooting down the plane, wel, well, neither did Turkey follow SOP's not to enter someone else's airspace. Shoulda, coulda, woulda.
Weak descan. Probably the worst attemp on here. At least there was Turkish corrective action and by extension good intention. What was the perceived threat from a plane 10miles off the coast and only in Syrian airspace for a matter of moments? 114 planes could have been shot down in turkey so far this year and all Turkey would need to do to sell its right is throw slack jawed imbiciles like you into pressers babbling shoulda coulda woulda!
Trukey's not going anywhere.
Not if they don't want the next spring uprising to occur in their country.
All Muslim countries should exit NATO as our way of life is incompatible with your Theocracies.
Say something that applies. Turkey is a secular modern nation, they are even more progressive than Americans in many ways. You can go toppless at a Turkish beach while you would get trouble if you did it in the US. Yet, you think you are better regardless, you self-righteous clueless brainwashed imbeciles.
I heard Turkey was gonna penetrate Syria from behind with a little help from Greece.
I'm certainly not taking Syria's side by any means, but the Turks are a bunch of dirtbags. Ask any Armenians.
Post your random nonsense elsewhere, nobody needs your propaganda.
We subscribe to the school of thought (as propagated by many commentators on this forum most prominent being @krm1007 ©™) that thesNATO, G2/4/6/8/20 etc, IMF, World Bank and UN et al have lived their utility and should be undone.
An elected world government should emerge based on democratic principles of one person one vote. There will be no veto powers. The center of seat will be based in developing countries
I don't see Turkey leaving NATO for a group of countries who have a history of leaving their allies at the side of the road out of their own self interest or because of shear lack of resources. With the current setup Iran and Syria know full well the potential wrath of NATO.
THE TURKS ARE NOT GOING TO LEAVE THE NATO...TURKEY IS THE KEY OF EVERYTHING
THE PRIME MINISTER IS JUST WANT TO TAKE IT EASY NOW... NO ONE SHOULD CONSIDER THAT TURKEY IS STAYING CALM. BELIEVE IF IT IS NECESSARY ,THE TURKS WOULD WALK ON THE FIRE WITHOUT NATO AND TURKEY IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR SYRIA, EVERYONE SHOULD REMEMBER THAT, THE TURKS ARE CORE OF THE OTTOMANS..AND HAVE A VERY BRAVE NATIONALTY AND TURKEY IS A POWER COUNTRY...AND HAVE A BIG ROLE IN THE NATO... I HOPE EVERYTHING IS GONNA END UP WITH A PEACE..
This is a pointless article that can only be found in US media in which articles are created by demands from interest groups and are far from reality. Neither Turkey not NATO has such an argument going on. Turks have no interest in getting out of NATO and NATO has no interest in losing Turkey as a member. Turkey is the second largest member of NATO after the US and is one of the major contributing members as well. Majority of the members do not even contribute and are insignificant unlike Turkey, if there was to be an argument about restructuring NATO. Ignore CNN, ignore US media altogether, read news from reliable neutral decent foreign media for your own good, such random nonsense put together as news deserves to be labeled as rubbish and ignored.
Your Media are also nonsense .
Not true. Words are cheap. BBC, France 24, Russia Today are all decent neutral news media. CNN is absolutely terrible when compared since their news are not at all published according to importance, they are both put together and published according to requests from interest groups. Some random nonsense that wouldn't make to news in other countries can be on front page of CNN for days while some important event that will be major news elsewhere can be entirely ignored or put to third page. Americans have entered idiocracy era long before the rest of the world, mostly due to the wild capitalism, money overrides ethics and everything else for Americans while they still matter to others.
If Turkey doesnt want to cooperate with NATO in Syria against Assad regime ,Turkey should leave NATO .
You are not a neutral third party, you are an enemy of Turkey and the Turks which takes away your credibility. You should leave CNN forums instead of asking some member nation to leave NATO when you are not at all in a position to do so since you are from a race whose nation (not the nation you live in) is not even a member to begin with. Yours posts are all driven by hatred, please carry your lies and propaganda elsewhere.
No , I am not an enemy of Turkey. Turkey should cooperate with NATO if it wants to keep Turkey in NATO. Turkey has refused to cooperate with NATO in the war in Iraq, Libya and Syria now!
What the hell are you babbling about! Turkey asked NATO to get involved in Syria after this incident and even earlier when the refugees flooded in. Currently nations such as the Netherlands are against millitary involvement. Also, in the last Iraq war, Turkey was pressured by the EU who was against the war, not to get inlvolved. Not all Nato members fought with Bush Jnr! The Iraq war of Bush Snr was a $100B disaster for the Turkish economy and Saddam wasn't even stopped. In the ME, whenever someone starts a fight for their own gains, Turkey always cops it and decades later the naive masses drag here name through mud to lessen the attention on their own sinister Goverments! Turkey's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't with you people!
You want to tell me that NATO protects the Assad regime!!
Do we really need NATO anyway?
It was formed to define the USA's sphere of influence vis-a-vis the USSR.
If it turns out we still NATO, could we modify its weird name of No. Atlantic Treaty Org to reflect the fact most NATO guys have no Atlantic shores?
Thanks for your attention, and now back to important things like the EuroCup 2012.
Turkey should be booted from NATO and Cyprus.
stop lying!
And don't forget Northern Kurdistan, izlumuk11. The Kurds both need and deserve a home state.
You should all be booted from the surface of earth, haters. Turks are superior to you and better than you, words are cheap, putting a few random nonsense here will not take you anywhere.
Marine5484: Kurds have a de-facto state in northern Iraq called Kurdistan which is far more than enough for the entire Kurdish population of the world. Turks do not owe them any land. If you think they "deserve" more land, give some off of your country, you are not in a position to tell anyone what to do.
Turkey must end its brutal illegal military occupation of Cyprus.
The same is true of Northern Kurdistan, izlumuk11. In fact, if I were the Pres. of Turkey, I'd end the occupation of both states and then pull Turkey itself out of NATO and quit taking orders from Washington D.C.!
stop lying
You should end the occupation of the place you live in. Take one-sided worthless views elsewhere, there are two sides to every story, nothing took place for no reason. You attacked Turks, Turks responded, you have been crying ever since. You ignore the initial part of the story and focus in the outcome to fool clueless third parties but a lot of decent people check the entire story and then side with Turks.
Folks – we are human beings, so mistakes will occur, however, do NOT forget that if you believe in Oneness of God [Allah], you will be rewarded. Life is too short and dont waste it by fighting and accusing one another. Please read Koran and be thankful to Allah Who Created us all.
It appears that crack is the drug of choice
Among the two writers. While turkey has and would allow use of it's airbases,airspace etc. And that would depend on what mood they are in. Turkey
Is on the downward slide towards theocracy. Slow but sure and is not a reliable partner. Tactical partnership i can see. Longterm strategic partnership?? This
Is why our country is doomed.gay pride parades in the military and brainless strategy.
What a joke that Turkey goes crawling and begging to NATO for help. Not surprising from the country feared around the world for it's unmatched and brutal efficiency with two main Turkish specialties, buggery and genocide.
Armenia will never be a relavent country James! Turkey will grow and prosper further. You'll continue your bitter life and die an angry man.
That so-called genocide is as bogus as a three-dollar bill. Armenians ignore the initial part of the story, how they armed and started attacking Turks from within the empire when Turks were at their weakest time fighting against multiple nations at many different fronts.. Armenians ignore how they sided with Russians and started massacring women and children, how they declared war at Turkish empire, thought they could win and create greater Armenia, they miscalculated, and Turks managed to respond. Then they act like Turks turned on to them for no reason. This was war time, Armenians lost the war they started, they were no longer welcome on Turkish soil as a result and they were collected and kicked out of Turkish borders. Armenians were far from innocent, and their fate was the same as any other losing side of wars back at the time. Now, they try to show the evidence from the war and act like they were victims of a genocide. The actual number was increased from tens of thousands to half a million, then a million, now two millions.. soon to be a billion at a theater near you.
The Turks play politics just like ever other group, they certainly are not victims, innocent, or heroic. Just like any other nation they are out for their own interests. UN resolutions only apply to your enemies (or pawns) never yourself.
Let's see how hard we can smack Turkey on the rear with the door as they leave NATO! Then, let's make them leave Cyprus. Turkey's illegal occupation of Cyprus must end.
Except, your side is always the one that gets smacked. You can have the feeling of accomplishment only at such online forums. The real life is a whole different story where your lies and propaganda does not exist, you can't come up with random nonsense there, there you always lose. You must end the illegal occupation of the space you take on earth surface, because you are a filthy creature.
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Very condenscending. I wonder why would Turkey see others making plans for its own interests - a "promotion" of sorts? The crisis in Syria was ready made to curb Turkey, and its growing regional clout. NATO just decided to move in, and give Turkey as much trouble as possible - given that Turkey managed to get their "secular" generals under control. It looks like those generals will be very happy to be allowed to make mischief again!
Turkish generals make less mischief than the generals of the rest of the world, especially those of your country.
is NATO even relevant anymore ?
Yes, very much so.
Only as another way to squander US tax dollars in benefit of the military industrial complex.
Turkey is a friend of the Assad regime under the table, so Turkey to protect the killer in Syria. Turkey not concerned with the brutal massacres in Syria. Erdogan's son is married to relatives of Bashar al-Assad .
Sorry, UFO s must be real and you are from Mars don't you, otherwise these comments can not come from humanbeing.
the day turkey leaves NATA will be the day Russia puts one in it..........
We have one saying in Turkish "Don't go to bed with someone else dic." According to your message Armenians are going bed with Russians...
islam is a crime against moslems and all humanity. islam must be opposed wherever ti festers.
Let's use the forum to promote world peace and love together thru worldwide media,love you all
Turkey is nowhere near the military and economic clout of China and India, also not even close to the enormous size of Brazilian markets. Its best for Turkey to chart its own geopolitical strategy than align with NATO or EU ,a sinking boat or with the BRICS,higher weight category. Her best role would be to act as a buffer between the middle east and the west.
It is an opportunity for Turkey to liberate the Syrian people of the massacres. According to the U.N, the Free Syrian army controls 50% of the area of Syria. Free Syrian army is alliance with Turkey, so Turkey can the occupation of Syria in 7 days and the overthrow of Assad. But Erdogan coward! No room for cowards in NATO. Turkey should leave NATO .
Turkey won't leave NATO. Without NATO, Turkey is nothing. None of the Muslim countries respect the Turks or aspire to mimick them and they all still harbor lingering hatred of the Turks from their suffering under the Ottoman Empire..
Turkey isn't an asset to the USA, it is an albatross that will hang on the neck of any so called aliance the Turks seek to use and exploit. Turkey cares only about increasing it's sphere of infuence, they wish to relive the days of the Ottoman Empire, which is all good, as long as they are the ones that pay and fight for their vision. Please leave American tax dollars and soldiers lives out of this mess.
It is time to stop pretending Turkey is an ally and Israel is not.
Expel Turkey from NATO and replace them Israel.
Let Turkey do it's Islamic thang.
I agree with you and let Isra-dEviL do it's satanic thang.
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