By Ravi Agrawal, CNN
Editor’s note: Ravi Agrawal is a senior producer on Fareed Zakaria’s Global Public Square. The views expressed are his own. You can follow him on Twitter @RaviAgrawalCNN
It all began, as things so often do these days, with a leaked video. Then there was a hurriedly-arranged press conference, an ensuing media maelstrom, and finally, attack ads.
Mitt Romney’s revelation that his “job is not to worry” about the “47 percent of the people” who “pay no income tax” has divided America. On the one hand, the 47 percent of households who pay no income tax are enraged, belittled. “People want a hand up, not a hand out,” says President Barack Obama. But assuming Romney understood his audience at that fateful fundraiser, his comments suggest the 53 percent are angry too: weary of contributing what they think is more than a fair share, and worried that if their man loses they’ll have to pay more. As columnist David Brooks put it, it’s the makers versus the moochers.
I’ve been struck by how surprised people are that nearly half of Americans don’t pay income tax. Why so many, ask the 53 percent. What happened?
If only America looked at the rest of the world.
Consider India. If you’re a taxpayer, you’re part of the elite few. In fact, only 2.8 percent of the population officially makes more than the $3,700 threshold for paying taxes (per capita income is only a third of that amount.) The rest – the 97.2 percent – don’t file an income tax return.
Or consider communist China. How many of its 1.34 billion citizens pay income taxes? According to the state-run Xinhua newspaper, only 24 million made the cut this year. By my math, that’s 1.72 percent of the population; 98.28 percent of Chinese don’t pay taxes!
Between India and China, that’s a third of all humanity. And I could go on. The numbers for the U.S. and China and India aren't directly comparable – the U.S. number is for households, while the others are for individuals. But the fact remains that in much of the world – across Asia, Africa, and South America – it turns out that not paying income tax is not unusual; paying taxes is unusual.
The American 53 percent should be happy there are so many shoulders to carry the load.
The fact is that Romney’s comments suggest a number of misconceptions that are stoking resentment and contributing to the creation of a class fault-line across America.
First, are federal services used exclusively by the people who don’t pay income taxes? A fascinating article in the New York Times shows why that’s not true. It points to a Cornell University survey that asked Americans whether they had taken advantage of federal government programs like student loans or Medicare (it doesn’t take into account government programs that impact everyone, like the police or the highway system). Ninety-six percent admitted to seeking federal assistance. Young adults not eligible for many of these services accounted for the other 4 percent.
In some form or the other, we are all takers; every single one of us. It’s not just government programs; look at subsidies. In the U.S. for example, a gallon of gasoline costs nearly $4. But you would pay twice as much in most of Europe. Even the Indians and Chinese pay more. Doesn’t everyone benefit from subsidies?
In an excellent essay for TIME, meanwhile, Michael Grunwald – a tax payer – outlines how every single thing his family uses would cost more were it not for subsidies: water, electricity, food, even public radio.
Second, let’s flip this around. Just as we are all takers, we are all makers too. Everyone – rich and poor – contributes. There are payroll taxes, property taxes, Social Security and Medicaid taxes. The Washington Post’s Ezra Klein points out that even the poorest fifth of Americans pay on average about 17.4 percent of their incomes on these taxes. A majority of Americans end up paying 25 to 30 percent of their income – more than Mitt Romney likely does, as Klein points out.
The shared burden holds true for other parts of the world, too – places far more unequal than America.
We tend to think of income tax as a burden. Perhaps we should see it as a privilege, a luxury to have an income level that makes us eligible to pay it. Look around the world and you’ll see that income tax payers are part of an elite club. More people want into this club than out. Perhaps that’s what fuels resentment on both sides. In creating arbitrary numbers that divide those who pay taxes and those who don’t, we rank people. And yet, everyone makes, everyone takes. Perhaps the system just needs a gentler touch: an all-encompassing income-tax curve. But try getting that through Congress…
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When are you Republican'ts going to realize that RMoney has already lost? We're just waiting for it to be official. If you ever want a chance at the Oval Office again you need to grow some cojones, give the boot to the Tea Baggers, and find your way back to center. Hell, Reagan wouldn't even be nominated by the GOP these days. Return to your roots and you might be able to save your party.
Voter turnout dude. Don count your chickens before they hatch.
One chicken. Ha Ha Ha. Two chickens Ha Ha Ha. Three chickens Ha Ha Ha. Yep Mitt has already lost Ha Ha Ha Ha.
Most people don't understand that american elections are not about getting voters to agree or support a candidate, american elections are about who shows up to vote on election day. Politicians are not speaking to convince anyone that their position is right or wrong, they are just trying to get their people to go vote and the other guys people to stay home.
I bet that the number of people who affiliate themselves as republicans is far less than the number of democrats or liberals. The FAR RIGHT list the GOP has done of late has really alienated a vast majority of independents. It even changed me from a right leaning libertarian Conservative Independent to someone who considers himself LIBERAL today.
I personally want to see me go back to the independent bloc but in this climate with a GOP that is so terrible at representing myself, my beliefs, and even intelligence (Rick Santorum's comment that the Prez is a snob for wanting all Americans to go to college or "We'll never have the intellectual elite" GAH SCIENCE!) I can not and will not ever wish well of them. That party is so far removed from me and its ironic because for eight years of Bush I affiliated myself loosely with it.
I digress. Obama will win by turnout because, as some stupid person once said; "The GOP isn't generating enough angry white people."
Check who added to National Debt during term in office:
Obama in 3.75 Yrs added $6.3 trillion of debt. First 2 Yrs at $3.5 trillion when it was full Democratic control of President, house and Senate.
Bush Jr. in 8 Yrs added $4.0 trillion with $1.2 in first 4 Yrs with Republican control and $2.8 second 4Yrs with Democratic control of House and Senate.
Do you like debt?
The count: you are either a bad actor or you like to laugh for nothing. Either way, not the sharpest knife in the kitchen drawer
sadly, there are too many clucks like the Count in the flock. Most assumed that they belonged to the 99% solution, but in reality they're just part of the 47% problem.
And I'm sure the fact income tax returns are down a few hundred billion dollars since the recession started has had NOTHING to do with the increased deficit of several hundred billion dollars per year?
I also note government spending has FALLEN under Obama. The deficit is up due to a decline in revenue, not an increase in spending.
Woops, those silly facts, getting in the way again.
Oh, do you mean the supreme court?
Dank,
I don't know if you're just an obama zombie or simply misinformed, but federal government spending has only increased under obama, while revenues have also decreased, government spending under any measurement has only increased, especially when compared to spending compared to total GDP.
this election should be a simple math problem, and who solves it. The answer is not obama
You better start counting your chicken because as per the GOP, you use chicken to pay for your medical care bill and that would be heck lot of chickens
Well said Jason, thank you.
How can you claim that gasoline is cheaper in the United States than in Europe because "it is subsidized". The real cost of gasoline is much lower than the price we pay at the pumps. Several states and federal taxes are added before we fill our vehicles. – The same happens in Europe, but at a much higher percentage. – Therefore, a lower priced gasoline is not an example of Government benefits.
Yes we pai a small amount of taxes but we as taxpayers massively subsidise oil, gas and coal. Yes they pay more in taxes in most of the rest of the world on gasoline but part of the $10 per gallon gas is because they do not subsidise. The countries with cheap gas only get it because they out subsidise us.
Jal, Dude, more Americans are afraid of Romney/Ryan than like them! Voter turnout won't be a problem to keep them from getting the Presidency!
In Reply to JH the national debt didn't start growing until the 80s when Regan took control with his policy of "Debt doesn't matter!!" Review the following website for historical timeline of national debt. http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/faq.html
The GOP motto is debt doesn't matter and bush followed that, and Obama is trying to right the ship...but with the congress of NO refusing to cancel Bush Era tax cuts, refusing to cut spending on defense which is the biggest piece of the pie etc...yeah who likes debt??? THE GOP DOES!!! And when you look at that chart notice the brief flatline of the clinton years!!
JAL: also, don't forget the million or so who show up without an ID this time, unaware of the intricacies of some of the voter ID laws.
This is for any of you who think that the oil industry is heavily sudsidized at the expense of taxpayers. I have read many hundreds of comments that attack the subsidies issue. I finally did a search to see what truth was in all of these comments. Much to my surprise, I came to understand that the hue and cry over subsidies is just another misunderstood dynamic regarding the legimate needs of the oil industry due to the heavy expense of exploration, and the long term nature on returns. Almost all of the subsidies consist of legitimate business expenses that they are allowed to defer until a later date. The subsidy allows them some breathing room against the big expenses that they have to incur in the course of their trade. They are not like mainstream businesses that open up and have a revenue stream from day one of operation. It also helps to keep in mind that filling the energy needs of any nation is a very important duty that maintains the health and welfare of the nation. So all of the online ranting about the wicked oil companies taking advantage is simply a matter of misinformation/misunderstanding. Do a search yourself and spend 3 or 4 hours reading the material. The subsidies are probably most beneficial towards the smaller companies. If those subsidies didn't exist then the oil industry would consist entirely of huge companies, because the risk would be substantially increased to smaller ones.
Conservative leaders.have, reconciled themselves to a Romney candidacy because they see Romney as essentially a weak and passive president who will concede leadership to congressional conservatives:
Grover Norquist's speech at CPAC this year. All we have to do is replace Obama. ... We are not auditioning for fearless leader. We don't need a president to tell us in what direction to go. We know what direction to go. We want the Ryan budget. ... We just need a president to sign this stuff. We don't need someone to think it up or design it. The leadership now for the modern conservative movement for the next 20 years will be coming out of the House and the Senate.
Pick a Republican with enough working digits to handle a pen to become president of the United States. This is a change for Republicans: the House and Senate doing the work with the president signing bills. His job is to be captain of the team, to sign the legislation that has already been prepared.
Seeing how unexcited the base is about Mitt I would expect Republican turnout to be low.
Real gas prices if only taking the per barrel price of oil, the cost of refinement and distribution are about $0.50 cents lower than they are (US prices) currently because of the taxes on gasoline that are used to support construction and maintenance of the roadway system in the US. The price is no different worldwide other than country specific taxes. What isn't factored in is the MASSIVE costs the US tax payer shoulders to ensure the world wide distribution system of crude oil remains intact and uninterrupted. Were those costs factored in the US cost of gasoline would be in the neighborhood of $50 a gallon while the rest of the world would be unchanged.
Wake up America, US military expenditures securing transit of crude oil worldwide (almost none is exported to the US as 90% of US oil imports come from Canada, Mexico and Venezuela, in fact the US oil purchases from these countries provide the revenue they need to offer health insurance to their entire population) comprise almost half of non-war US defense expenditures. So not only do US tax payers subsidize oil prices worldwide, those subsidies are used to provide the health care most Americans can't even afford.
As an American tax payer you lower the price of gas in China while simultaneously purchasing health insurance for a significant portion of the western hemisphere and the other 10% of US imports goes to the Saudi's who then funnel the money to Al Queda. If America ends it will be by our own hands and stupidity.
I need those chickens to pay my medical bills.
I totally, absolutely agree with ytman. He echos my sentiments.
I proudy proclaimed my independence from party affiliation. I have always considered myself open-minded and accepting of others' successes or failures. Now, during the last few years of hatred and ineffectual congressional BS- I will be voting a straight democratic ticket. I would rather compromise a couple of my moral beliefs for the greater good of the U.S.
Voter turnout...WELL are there more people making $250,000 per year or less...excluding the fanatical religous right of course.
Obama will win only if everybody votes.
Let's, see who is not going to vote GOP
1. Women
2. Mexicans
3. Blacks
4. Gays
5.Seniors
6. Poor
Hey dude there ain't many categories left !
You left out the NON-Christians!
2. Mexicans?
That's part of the problem here, Mexicans voting in US elections?
Unless you meant to say 'hispanics' or 'latinos' but are just too racist yourself.
PositiveGOPer, He probably shouldn't have typed that, but it's not far from the truth. Many immigrants from Mexico still view themselves as Mexicans rather than Americans.
Only minority left is white male
@posGOPer: like +1
Mexican's should be Hispanics. Hopefully Mexico isn't deciding our President.
Oh, and count in educated (not 1%'ers) white males.
Don't forget all the dead people. They always vote Democrat too.
You mentioned mexicans WOW! Two statistically the voter turnout from the poor is unfortunately due to obamas skin color. I'm no racist that is just fact. Youtube obamas followers and voters. "WE ARE VOTING FOR OBAMA. WHY? CAUSE HES GONNA GIVE US A CELL PHONE!" thats what matters to these people nothing else. The mere fact that there are working people who get money taken away from them from taxes are completely happy with giving someone a cell phone. I know people who literally do not leave their apartments for anything at all, and WE PAY FOR THAT! MEXICANS REALLY! last time I looked at a map Mexico isn's the 51st state.
Pretty much captures the moochers, though I wouldn't necessarily include most women.
how ignorant to compare the US taxpayers to China, India and Latin America. Why don't you compare it to Western European countries!
You left out socialists, marxists, communists, and the rest of the Obama followers who would like to see the US look more like Uzbekistan and Belarus where his policies have been practiced for many years.
Guess that just leaves taxpayers.
Don't forget thos lazy people in the military paying no taxes abcause their combat pay is non taxable, or disabled vets
@badjuju, the cell phone that you are referring to was enacted in 2008, by President Bush, not President Obama. President Bush created the ability for those whom have had federal assistance, to get a cell phone. I believe it is called Assurance Wireless.
I'm a female – and I'm voting for Romney, the lesser of two evils. Many women I know are voting for him as well because we're capable of independent thought, we're not just following the hype of Obama's "women's issues". I'm not jealous that Mit is rich ... good for him... I understand that he is retired and his income is from capital gains – he's already paid taxes on the money he used to invest. It's taxed at 15% so he paid what he was supposed to. I also know (and for those who don't it's pretty easy to find sources to support this) that the amount the govt makes on capital gains goes up when the % paid goes down. So when Busch lowered the capital gains tax the american government actually made more money.... seems like a no brainer to me. I don't agree with everything right wing, I could care less if gay people want to get married, don't have a problem with abortion as long as it's not used as a form for birth control. Not overly religious. What I do have a problem with is the fact that everyone is going to have crappy insurance becasue of the "cadillac tax" associated with better health insurance and the 19 other taxes associated with Obama care. The fact that I have to live on a budget (by the time you add all of the taxes the goverment including state, local, ss, it's a large % of my income) and the government spends it as if it's growing on a tree. Time for the middle to come together and get rid of the far left and the far right.
You also left out the chickens.... they are also not voting for Rodneyhood.
Just so you know, I happen to be an educated, hispanic, female who will be voting for Romney/Ryan. I am a part of the dwindling middle class who is not better off than I was four years ago. I know many others like me who will also be voting the same way. I also know many who are getting turned off by ridiculous comments like yours. Why can't we discuss our political differences like adults, without resorting to stereotyping each other?
@fairtaxation "how ignorant to compare the US taxpayers to China, India and Latin America. Why don't you compare it to Western European countries!"
That is all u can expect from a Zarkaria's minon.
I know a lot of women voting for Romney/Ryan....I am not talking just a few, a lot haha
Quick comparison to Europe ...Sweden spends 9 per cent of GDP on healthcare and has lowest mortality rate . That means a healthy populace. The us spends 19 percent of GDP on healthcare and not close on mortality. By that comparison it should be obvious that everyone could have healthcare and less could be spent on it at same time. We are so busy thinking we are the best that we fail to learn from others and just assume what we have is great. By any estimation the problem isn't universal healthcare but how it is implemented. You can have your cake and eat it too, where is that candidate?
Agree with irunner to add Non-Christian, but also add non-religious (not the same as anti-spiritual). Who is left? Angry white men. Angry because they are very afraid.
Angela habibji, is your name really Angela or is Mohammed, Khalid, Abdul...
Just into raising a little shiet today?
you must not pay your taxes.
That is because in India the taxes from the 2.7% do not have to pay for the other 97%. It is not a matter of how many people are paying taxes in the US. It is a matter of how many people are expecting to live off the ones that do. If we plan to put all those that don't in cardboard shanty towns and let them fend for themselves, then we are probably okay with our current tax system.
I'll bet that you were one of the people posting that the Republican Party was dead following the 2008 election! (The begining of the thousand year Reich for the Democrat party.) How'd 2010 work out for ya?
Demographics are against the GOP. A party that is depending on white men between 30 and 65 for it's base may have a blip whenthe economy wasn't cured immediately but is on it's way out. Another political party more conservative than the Democrats but not off the edge will be formed and and will replace the GOP it is inevitable, unless the GOP quits demonizing Latino voters, Black Voters and Women, now they have added disabled vets, seniors and anyone earning less than $30,000 a year with a family. Numbers count. 2010 was a last gasp, but it is unlikely it will be repeated.
Well said Angela! I know a goodly number of women who won't be voting GOP this year, many of them lifelong Republicans. Most I've talked with have told me that their party has either gotten to extreme in the last few years or as one 92yo lady told me, "My party has left me behind, I no longer know them."
What I love is how you leftists are trying to discount how flyover country will vote. You spend all of your time on left wing sites and avoid the right not knowing how geeked we are. The tea party is ticked and ready to roll just like they were in 2010. You can believe your polls and pundits but you're just fooling yourselves. In 2008, I saw yard signs and bumper stickers all over the place for your guy. Now, only the die hards have them out and believe me, there aren't many. You can all start packing your bags for Canada like you did when GW won the second time!
NEC, my 90-year-old mother-in-law, who was a lifelong Republican, is voting for Barack Obama this year. Not without difficulty, though, because PA is trying to make it difficult for the old, minorities, disabled, and poor to vote, diverting their true motive with claimed "voter fraud." Have you ever heard of a fraud problem among these groups? She did get her ballot this year and she will vote. We will see to it.
You are correct. You dems shouldn't even bother showing up to vote. Romney is a dead man walking...
But I really really want to kick him in the mud.
I used to be Republican. No way I'm voting for Romney or ANY of the current Republican's. We can NOT have that kind of ilk running our government.
I call bull on that. You were never a Republican, Don. The Bush Republicans vote like Democrats. The New Republicanism is a return to the party that actully had a clue.
clueless Reagan, Ford Both Bush's Nixon and Eisenhower are all now too liberal for the GOP. Actually The GOP in the 1800s was the liberal party which was pro union pro high wages socially liberal and actually proposed univerasl health care. It was still socially liberal into the 1960s, many of the people who went south to registed Black voters were Republicans. However when Nixon started his Southern efforts he though that the southern Democrats would become Republican, they didn't realize that the Republicans would become Dixicrats ever chasing lower taxes adn a clain to sole ownership of faith. Nixon was probably the last libral President and Reagan was the first openly avowed racist president However all of them would be much too liberal for today's Republicans. They raised taxes when it was needed, they championed health care for all. The Heritage foundation wrote "Obamacare, complete with the mandate" If the GOP went back to it;s roots it would have a chance of long term survival.
I havent seen a republican who has a clue more then how to line his own pockets and the pockets of his rich friends in more then 20 years. They party is dieing a slow death and becoming the american taliban ( which is a political party based on religious law, which is what the taliban is).
Clueless the new Republican party is so far to the Right that they think Mussolini was a communist/stalinist/marxist/socalist etc..etc.. well you get the idea. Until they come back towards the center and run more moderate candidates they're going to continue to lose out on the WH. America is by and large fiscally moderate and socially liberal and that is NOT the GOP of today by a long shot!
Mussolini? What the heck? Mussolini was a socialist. Look it up. Conservatives embrace values from a generation or two ago. Family, hard work, faith, and gov't has shattered that to pieces as well as liberalism. Portraying the GOP as the rich is such a stupid argument when you have wealthy athletes and movie stars in the back pocket of the Democrat party. Give it up.
Correction: Mussolini was a Fascist, which he himself said was the same as a Corporatist:
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
Look it up if you don't believe me...
i.e. he would have been far to the right, just like the guy in Germany who called him self a socailist (just as much as the Republic of China is a republic).
That's not necissarily true. They just found out one of the biggest propriters of voter fraud is on the GOP payroll...Don't forget 00 and 04, with enough money you can buy an election.
and who told you that? CNN!?
The republican party has proven it can steal an election in the past. Don't put it past them this time.
Mitt Romney did not say what this article says he said. He was talking about the 47% who don't pay taxes and their vote. He said he wont get their vote so why worry about them. And he's 100% correct. Would you look a gift horse in the mouth? You people who read these biased articles are going to be shocked when Obama loses. If Obama wins you will be even more shocked to see what will become of our country. Sorry...but folks...you are wrong. Romney is by far the better leader and he has a brain, more than I can say for the movie star. Also, reading this article..be truthful....would you want to live like the people in China who don't pay income tax? Would you??????
Re: China – at least they have jobs - OUR jobs!
Believe it or not those of us who don't pay pay role taxes still do pay other taxes and contribute to other government programs. As much as the GOP would want people to believe we are not lazy people who do nothing, who won't get a job, who expect the government to give us hand outs. Most of us who don't pay taxes are elderly, handicapped, mentally disabled, or we just don't get paid enough. For years I worked 60-100hrs a week and still did not make enough for my family. It almost feels like it is impossible to get ahead these days. Now I have a bad back and can barely stand. Now if I am lucky I can find a job that I can work(since I obviously can't work too many since I have to be sitting down)
I would vote obama mostly because the GOP is so stupid and only represent the people who have the million + bank accounts in other countries. I plan to not vote because voting doesn't matter anyways because of the electoral college. I happen to live in a state that is poor as heck, but still votes GOP because of religious reasons.(aka Zealots)
hey slip the electoral college has a purpose that the states have been trying to restrict for years. The common man is not educated on all the issues a president should be informed of, the college members are supposed to be more informed and more educated on what would make a good president at the time. Most of the time they will vote with the popular candidate, but there are time where the popular loser would make the better president based on facts that the general public does not take into account.
Ok let me say it anouther way...the avg joe/jill on the street may not be a moron, but doesnt feel they have the time to educate themselves on all the issues. So they vote for the electors that will take the time to make that educated decision.
the founders basicly knew that most people were for lack of a better term "stupid" and going to fall for big talk, but they wanted to make sure that for something as important as President that the best more educated on public issues was chosen.
I could buy the "he was talking about votes" part if he hadn't gone on to say that he could never convince the 47% to take responsibility fo their lives. That demonstrates his belief that almost half the country are moochers, including most seniors, who paid fed income taxes through their entire careers, but now have just enough to get by. Interesting to note that the lower income citizens – most of the 47% – are in the so-called red states. They are HIS people, and the doesn't respect them at all.
BTW – How do the super-rich get super-rich? It isn't by paying fair wages. It's by exploitation of others. Extreme wealth is always achieved on the backs of the less-wealthy.
You are the only one with any sense here. You are correct when you state that Romney was talking about where he could get enough votes to win, and recognizing who's vote he likely could not get. I hope in the debate Romney says "America is the greatest business in the world, and for Americans, it's the only game in town, but It has been so poorly mismanaged that it risk being insolvent".
testing
@Angela Birch
We are now and for 22 years have been a proud military family. We pay our taxes. Yes his combat pay is non taxable, but he has gotten shot at so much that we cannot go out to a movie or a restaurant without him freaking out. Bite Me.
I would hope that Obama will not get re-elected like CNN would love. However, if he does get re-elected, you can bet that after another 4 years he will still be blaming everyone else for his failures, he will have spent our country to the point that we will have no choice but to either default on our debt like Greece is doing or go into an inflation cycle like South American Countries went through of 1000s of percent per year of inflation.
You pathetic little delusional fool. You, and your ilk, have been blaming Obama for everything since he took office. YOU are the ones doing the blaming. Stop living in denial and take some personal responsibility.
JR, as a white women, married to a Hispanic man with a college aged daughter, all I can say is...we will all be voting Romney. Obama is more devisive than any president in my lifetime...and that includes Clinton.
Jimmy +++ I don't think JR is blaming Obama. Obama is saying that nothng is his fault.
That is one issue I have with Obama – he just keeps on printing more money – not the sensible way to go
As a white male, with a 3rd generation Irish wife, and 6 kids 3 of which are college age i will be voting for Obama. He has not been divisive, rather the object of division. There was anouther president like that...Lincoln. The southerners used to say he was divisive too..hell it was his election that started the civil war. Did that make him a bad president? nope he was what was needed at the time, and obama is whats needed right now.
JR – NO Obama gets relected, Just look at the mess he will inherit this time!
Flatpicker, it's better than the mess he inherited from GWB 4 years ago and if he can get rid of the House obstructionism he might actually get something done on the economy. Mitch McConnell came out about 4 month after Obama was elected and stated the GOP's goals succinctly, 'Our primary goal is to make sure that Obama is a one term president', well that goal is looking really shaky.
The telling part is that it 'wasn't' their primary goal to help Americans it was to get their party back in power and that's ALL they've worked on since!
JJJB,
I'll give you the first stimulus was Bush's fault, and whether or not it was to fix a housing/banking crisis created by the dems or repubs only history can tell. But a second stimulus is all Obama, and as many others have pointed out, both of them are still sitting in the pockets of the banks or, because of gov't rules on spending them, was never used. Now just a week or so ago Obama said he wants a third stimulus so the gov't can buy back mortgages, which puts even more money in the pockets of the banks, money we, the taxpayer, will have to pay interest on. Obamacare did nothing to help the consumer except to raise prices on health insurance, good for the insurance company, and create 16,000 more gov'y jobs, which we, the taxpayer, will now have to pay for. I could go on just pointing out the facts of his tenure, not blaming just saying. I won't put all of the pressure on Obama because I know that there is some factual failures that can be assessed to both houses of Congress, but Obama could apply pressure where necessary to get things moving, at least on the Senate, that way if there are any big failures Obama could say I tried and the repubs failed.
I tend to agree with that .. I am a conservative ... but I cannot see myself voting for these clueless people .. and Obama is on the same list too
Since when do we need to put india or china on the pedestal and try to emulate? Going forward or Back?
Don't be ridiculous, both sides constantly make comparisons to other countries. France has their top earners paying 75%, do we want to be like france? Muslim countries won't let people build christian chruches, do we want to be like those muslim countries? Seems like republicans are the only ones too stupid to realize this irony, even the author of this piece knows it's silly to make the comparisons but do so to illuminate the hypocrisy coming from the right.
Comparing the US to India and China is stupid. All we have to do is go to a caste system, have the governement restrict the internet, eliminate free speech, live in squalor, put women rights back 200 years, not allow immigration except by those of the same culture, eliminate all environmental protections, etc. This is by far the least clearest case f idiotic reporting i have ever read
Not a good thing to say about your Chinese masters. Especially when you owe them so much money.
Ching: I work in a 4-story, downtown building which was owned by HSBC when we moved in 7 years ago, and just went back to being owned by Five Star Bank. I really don't care who owns the building because I'm an American worker who is producing and paying taxes to my country, which is good for me, but more importantly, good for my country.
The voters put the Tea Party in, not the Republican party, so why dont you grow up? Whats wrong with this country is people like you, fan boys for a political 'party'. Its not a game of this side vs that side, child, its about getting this country on track. You should vote for the best person, the person you believe will help the country more, not blindly based on some stupid party affiliation. Thats why I am independent. I am voting for Obama, because he is the lesser of two evils. He is doing a pretty lousy job though, I would much rather have Clinton in office.
Which Clinton, Frank?
@JH – this is the typical response from a conservative who claims to love this country but has absolutely no idea how it works. Budgets are fiscal year, not calendar, meaning the first full year of Obama's presidency was w/a budget set by Bush. Here are two other important facts that you will totally ignore because they support the hyperbolic lies in which you live by, Bush took us from a 500 billion a year surplus to a 1.4 trillion a year deficit, that's a spread of almost 2 trillion dollars, while Obama took us from 1.4 trillion deficit to a 1.7 trillion (which for his last budget of this year is projected to be 1.1 trillion meaining a decrease in budget deficit something Bush never accomplished), which is only a spread of 300 billion. Additionally, the policies/legislation that are still causing our massive budget deficits were primarily passed by Bush while republicans controlled both the house and senate. Obama has tried to reverse many of these deficit busting policies but republicans have resisted any change. Facts matter... well to those of us who don't live on one of Newt's moon colonies.
good points, and a wonderfully placed shot at Newt's moon colonies, one I did not expect – ty for the lolz
Obama can thank Romney's choice of Ryan and the Tea Party for his inevitable second term in office.
Your guy isn't any better. Still a politician, doing what politicians do. It's like picking a crap salad. You might think you have the best one, but you are still about to eat a crap salad.
No, it is Mr. Obama who has pushed the pendulum too far to the left. THAT is what spawned the Tea Party, not the other way around.
The pendulum was swung by Geo. W. Bush. He got us into unnecessary wars, trashed our national budget, which didn't include spending for the wars, and then left his mess for Barack Obama to clean up in 4 years, when he had 8 years to make the mess. The pendulum will swing, however. Americans who are strong, and intelligent and caring will take our country back. We won't give up and the pendulum will swing again.
You know, there's a part of me that wants Obama to win because I know that he will continue to screw up the country and after the next four years of him screwing the US over, the repubs will have his example for many years of successful presidential runs. If you don't think so, look at what the UN wants, richer countries like us to give more money to poorer countries as they try to redistribute wealth, and when Obama says "yes" because you know he will, who will he come to for more money, the rich? Maybe but certainly the middle class will chip in with additional taxes to help support the rest of the world.
Thank yo for "factually" backing up your thesis. Much like AM radio hosts.
Dwight D. Eisenhower quote from wikipedia
As the 1954 congressional elections approached, and it became evident that the Republicans were in danger of losing their thin majority in both houses, Eisenhower was among those blaming the Old Guard for the losses, and took up the charge to stop suspected efforts by the right wing to take control of the GOP. Ike then articulated his position as a moderate, progressive Republican: "I have just one purpose...and that is to build up a strong progressive Republican Party in this country. If the right wing wants a fight, they are going to get it...before I end up, either this Republican Party will reflect progressivism or I won't be with them anymore."[105]
It would probably be prudent to wait till the election before running your mouth. eh? Its so easy to talk trash. With regards the article, it is complete hog wash. If you have ever been to China, you know what I am talking about. Booming, and still one of the most backwards country I have ever seen. Most of the people in India don't have shoes. What can possibly be the point of making the comparison?
Here is a real gem from the article.
"First, are Federal services used exclusively by people who don't pay federal income tax?" What a stupid question. Who ever said they were? Nobody! So, make a nonsensical point and then arue it away? If you don't have anything intelligent to say, don't speak. None of those people have air conditioning or a pot to pee in, and I mean that literally. Why are they in that shape? Blame it on their governments and you won't be far from the mark. Are we supposed to be jealous of the Indians who go down to the polluted river and wash their clothes? Can you find a better source for your figures than the state run Xinhua newspaper? Do you agree with most of their propaganda?
The author then follows up with a claim that the US government subsidizes gas prices in this country, which is patently false. 2 minutes of research will show you why the prices of gas vary between the countries listed, and it IS NOT because the US subsidizes gas prices to the consumer. If the implication that taxes on fuel being much lower in the US than in Europe is equvalent to a subsidy, then I don't understand the meaning of subsidy.
When the article states that I should feel privledged to pay taxes, unlike those poor bustards in China, and I see how the money is spent and given away to pander to the voting public, I see red.
I have paid federal taxes every year of my life since I was 16. I am now 55. I drew unemployment once, for about 3 months. I served in the US military for six years. Now that I am nearing retirement age, I am told social security is broke, and I can not depend on getting my benefits as promised. Who didn't see this coming, and why wasn't it fixed? I want a dame refund. All I hear from Washington is, "We need more money". The only idea I have heard lately that sounds promising is "No new taxes, no new debt"
Romney wasn't my first choice, but I know who my last choice will be. It's that guy that wants to spread some more of my wealth around.
ignorant is voting for the same loser twice lol
People like you who only care about a political party and not the well being of its the people. Focus your remarks on economy and leave the party talk in your a..hole. I bet you are a worthless piece of s.... who stay home and live off welfare and foodstamp.
Uhm, let me guess. Angry white man?
You dems or pro obama's just don't get it, next year take a good look at yourshelf and see who you can blame.
doesn't matter if Obama or Romney wins in November. The simple fact is that Americans will lose.
Hi, Matrix: It will all shake out. We all vote with our hearts and minds and what we believe in. Kind of do believe in pendulums. I'm 61 and have seen lots of them. We all win and we all lose sometimes. Don't let it make you cynical. It's great to be skeptical because that's what thinking people are, but don't turn on your own instincts that people really do want the best for themselves and for others. Hope you haven't watched too many Matrix movies.
@Mark Paslay – You are totally correct. I think the GOP picked Romney because they thought he would be palatable to the country and not strong enough to insist on his own agenda. Therefore Grover Norquist and the extreme right would be able to push through their agenda onto America very easily.
If I didn't have to live in America under a Romeny presidency it would almost be worth it to let it happen and say "I told you so" to people a) not part of the 1% who believe; and b) who didn't bother to vote against him.
Amniculi, you need to tell Obama and his people that. You see they are still out wasteing taxpayers money campaigning. Maybe if you tell him hes already won he would go back to Washington and at least pretend to be doing something about the economy and foreign affairs. I realize he is in way over his head and hasnt got a clue on how to fix anything , but at least if he went back to Washington it would not cost taxpayers as much.
You are so right! RMONEY is all for MONEY For the Rich!!
This is what the CNN/NBC/and likes want everyone to believe. Rasmussen baby. They were right in 2008 and since. But no matter what they say, 67% of this country says we are on a "WRONG" track. See you on 11/6 and make sure you have your seat belt on or you will fall out when we make a u-turn.
Shouldn't you be at the mailbox waiting for your oblamer phone about now? lol
GOP return to it's roots ??? What happened to "Ask not what your country can do for you, Ask what you can do for your country" and "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day – Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime". As a former Democrat, you lost me when it became apparent the Democratic Party turned from helping citizens better themselves to providing a career path of government dependency. Wake up and realize the difference between helping those in need rather promoting a lifestyle that provides minimal chances of truely bettering one's life.
Republicans are concerned with saving the country; democrats are concerned with preserving their handouts.
Amniculi, saving a party is not what is important. we need to save our way of life. Obama is in for 4 more, no doubt. a nation gets the government it deserves .................and we are about to get 4 more year of it (irreparable harm). Well, I guess it won't be considered harm if you welcome Socialism. My beloved America will look like Holland within 15 years. If that's 'progress', we've really given up on America. She's gone! to hell with 'Parties' its about what used to be the USA.
Yep, Barry already won the election, so don't even bother going to vote. Just watch the whole thing on TV.
Yes Obama,s going to win. 4 more years of broken promises, higher taxes on the middle class, the weakling of America , high unemployment, black people will get the shaft again and obamacare that needs to be funded by medicad which will go under. No more God in the country I can not wait. 4 more years of no growth yes Gay Obama is the man
I wonder why do black people always vote for bad people like Obama, Pelosi, Reid who at the end always shaft the black people. Maybe its because black people likes to get shafted vigorously.
vote for the Mormon not the moron!
Please don't under estimate the stupidity of the middle class.
This is why we need the FAIRTAX, But wait that is something the dem's dont wont wonder why?
Its an existing fact, but these asian countries are clearly distinct by cultural realities. In india and other developing countries in Africa,the gap between the rich and the poor is always so big that the poor may not be able to eat while the rich next door has everything, which explains why the society can't even tax a heavy chunk of the lacking population. The fact is they are already suffering their own burden of being from α class of the society.
The point is not that they cant be taxed. The Republicans cry foul about how a lot of people seek federal assistance without paying for it. The study just points out how this is true for almost all countries even in countries like India and China where populations are freaking huge and people who are not taxed are taking assistance from the govt (if they are smart enough to do that that is).
The only point I see missing in these articles is a study about how much this assistance helps convert people from poor to middle class and how the assistance can be made effective. Also the assistance mentions its not always the poor that sought assistance. IT would be interesting to know what assistance was sought by the rich/upper middle class
Just about every college student fills out the Financial Aid Form (FAF). Colleges routinely require it in order to figure out which loans, grants, and scholarships a student is eligible for. Only then do colleges present parents with the tuition bill. Entrepreneurs routinely go to the Small Business Administration for assistance in starting up. Some government contracts are specifically set aside for small or minority or women owned businesses regardless of net income. Trust me, the rich get theirs.
I put one kid through college and I have one there now. I am required to fill out the FAFSA forms as part of enrollment.
Grand total of the financial aid my wife and I qualified for over the last seven years.........
......one $500 loan.
almost $200,000.00 so far in TRBE between both kids, and I got a $500 loan.
Apparently I make too much money, or I'm to white to qualify.
By federal assistance, do you also mean the farm subsidies, oil company subsidies, various business subsidies, gasoline subsidies, bailouts that were needed because of Bush deregulations, lower taxes for the rich?
And those countries are exceedingly poor, their governments don't have much money, and the citizens under the poverty line is a huge number
derp – as a white kid from a family that received food-stamps and aid-to-dependant-children, in the 1970s, before these huge deficits, I paid about $10,000 for my B.Sc. education and some of that was a grant (free) and some was student loans (more than $500, for certain, more like $4,000, and all paid back). My contribution from summer jobs was about $3,000. you know the cost of college now and everyone can verify it using internet search engines – it is by FAR the biggest cost-increase industry since 1980 – and it a virtually BS now. you can find the stats – 44% of kids go to college but only 21% (less than half) earn their 4 yr degrees even after 6 yrs of trying. We have waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more problems that who pays taxes. The education industry now cost FAR more than it ever did – and it is an absolute failure. This civilization is in failure-mode. What changed since 1980 ? Individualisms, liberalisms, de-regulationisms, de-unionisms, lower-taxisms – for who? etc. cause and affect. ever hear of it?
well said !
You are so right, we need to return to the way things were in those decades. I did very well without college, and many others did too. Those that got college had something of value. I try out college grads and they can't think themselves out of their own shoes.
this isn't china
this isn't india
this isn't russia
this isn't germany
THIS IS AMERICA
Stating what people in other countries pay in taxes is like asking what the price of tea in china is. Who gives a ***k.
Subsidised gas? I don't care because I'm smart enough to understand the concept of supply and demand.
Gas is $4 instead of $8? Cool sounds warm and fuzzie
oh wait..its cheaper..more people can afford it..by buying it with the money they're getting from the 53%'s tax money..awesome..
take that money away? take away the subsidies? awesome I get to keep more of MY money that I EARNED. now less people can buy gas, less demand, means lower cost which means they will eventually balance production and produce less reaching equilibrium on fuel prices... but even at the increased fuel prices on a monthly average vs the amount of money id save in taxes per month i think id actually come out several hundred dollars ahead.
Theres a difference between helping those who help themselves and helping those who take advantage of the system (yes being lazy and not getting out of the system applies)
Having a ton of kids that you can't support applies, etc
Promise you take the roof, heat, food away.. they will work and try to get ahead.
I hate going into wally world, seeing a cart full of hundreds of dollars of steaks paid for by food stamps to turn around a day or two later see that person sitting a sports bar smoking like a chimney and having drinks. To hell with that.
If you paid into a system all your life or a good chunk of it and are now seeing returns on it (social security etc) thats different than being a moocher.
53% is paying for schools, food, shelter, heat, etc,etc,etc
I say let the weak starve.
So... I guess that you are paying "full freight" for your Little Johny or Little Ashley to go to a Private School. No ?? Why not ?? If not, then YOU TOO are one of those lazy drains on society – you don't really think that your Property Tax is paying completely for your little darling's School, do you ?? No, it comes from EVERY Home Owner – and all the Renters who pay to their Landlord. So, your caught with one of your little Government Handouts... And surely there are more...
"""Theres a difference between helping those who help themselves and helping those who take advantage of the system"""
Reading the rest of your post I would question whether you would even know what "helping" is. You sound selfish and non-empathetic.
Tough Love is needed in this country! 99 weeks of unemployment really?
Maybe nobody pays in India, but they don't give you food stamps, housing assistance, student loans, and all the other handouts either. Nobody pays, but nobody takes.
Today 98.5% of all U.S. politicians are strictly takers with no sense of morality whatsoever! These people work for the M.I.C. and do their bidding. All the Makers have either been programmed out or had been defeated by more right-wing candidates.
And 98.5% of all such comments are made up with no basis in fact whatsoever... Absurd use of a false statistic to try to make an unreasonable opinion sound well-considered.
Your 98.5% is probably false, making you look rather silly
Youshi – he is proving his own point, LOL pretty lame
99.999345 percent of the world's population is not as smart as I am. Prove it aint true.
Your statement proves you are not as smart as you think you are.
It is normal for a lot of people here to pull stats out of their hiney on these blogs.
It is very difficult to not become sarcastic with these people.
I believe the republican party's Rick santorum is correct in saying, "the elite and smart people will never be on our side".
If mittens had really said that, you would have said when and where he said it.
What? you probably meant to say 99.9999% of the politicians are crooks. I can only think of a couple of exceptions...Bernie Sanders (I) and Pat Leahy (D) of Vermont who probably are as clean as it gets...The rest are dirty to the bone, thugs who do the dirty jobs of those corporate thugs who are fleecing america, middle class, incomes, benefits, quality of life, you know...the china-ization of our country and the world for that matter where we are all workers and support a few rich elites.
I am trying to take a current follow-up on how things are done. However not this article but the issue made me think of long distant runners. May it be Maraton runners or highly blue blood race horses, they mean nothing if they can not complete the course. Of course jumping barriers may show stronger backbone while meeting the unexpected in a general drive shows guts and experiance. However I still find similarities in " the pursuet of the inedible by the unmentionable".
Are you channeling Dick Francis?
With all their war mongering, the Republicans drove the US to one of the biggest financial disasters it has faced since the great depression. And here we have another Republican, Mitt Romney blaming 47% of Americans for the financial crysis. I'm convinced that if he wins the election, Romney will completely destroy what remains of US foreign policy and the economy. Bush created enough problems as it is, we don't need another ignorant bigot starting a war with Iran. I use to have respect for Republicans before the Bush years... Now, when I think of Sarah Palin, Rick Perry, Romney and Todd Akin, I can only imagine imminent disaster.
you are right..I was highly amazed that how did B U S H got reelected. I also lost faith in Republican party after that.
Dubya got elected thanks to his brother, Jeb, tossing out 80,000 votes in Florida under the pretense of "voter fraud," whatever that means. Republican Motto: It's not WHOSE vote that counts, it's WHO'S vote we count (evil laugh)!! ......the last strategy of a desperate party.
Actually, the total costs of the Afghan and Iraq wars since 2001, is around $1.4 trillion, while this years budget deficit under Barack Obama is around $1.2 trillion. Yes, the wars are costly, but nothing compared to the spending that Obama is doing. So keep telling yourself that the reason we're in unsustainable deficits is because of George Bush's wars. Enjoy your kool-aid.
If it wasn't for the money Obama pumped into the economy to help dig out of the mess Bush and the Republicans left, more of us would be out of work and that 47% that Mitt is harping on would be getting larger. No inflow of money and we'd of been the new Greece. In 2008 Obama said it would take time and we all had to do our part to get out of this mess. Well the Dems have been doing our part, just imagine the improvements in our economy if the Re-pubs hadn't fought with us every step of the way.
Please go back to high school civics class. The President - any President can not spend one penny unless it is authorized by congress. Granted these authorization may be in very large blocks of pennies with a fairly high degree of Presidential discretion associated with them . Congress NOT the President sets the budget. Congress NOT the President sets the tax code. Congress NOT the President sets the debt ceiling.
Amazing how you idiots still blame Bush. Obama says that one man can't change things from the inside... unless of course you are a Republican obviously. Also amazing that the worst four years of the past six were when Democrats controlled both the Senate and the House.
Fareed should take Alan Simpson back to the show. This old boy from Wyoming could knock some sense into the Congress. He made sensible proposals to changing the tax code. The US tax system is complex and needs to be modified, and – most importantly – simplified.
Romney and Ryan are myopic policy makers and their plan wouldn't help reduce deficits. How were they going to handle the situation if those affected by budget cuts would take to the streets like many in Greece and Spain?
I see the strong connection between labor and the GOP. Government has evolved into this never-ending battle of social reform vs labor (and for good reason). I listen to and consider Fareeds inputs, but it is time to unchain labor. Labor is about to surge, but in a new way. I, for one, am sick and tired of hearing that good, decent folks are out of work.
They did. What do you think the Occupy protests were all about?
You are right but Fareed doesn't read these soundoffs....obviously.
Face it Willard. You lost!!!! You might have won but you keep.........talking!!!!!
A very nice article – it would have been nice to see some other country %'s...even those that are not as dramatic as India/China – Germany or Norway perhaps...even if it's 50% it can show America is not awkward when it comes to 1/2 of all Americans not paying income tax. I do wish you had a better headline – while it's clever...it needed to be more direct as I almost passed this by. Kudos to the author.
Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and UAE pay 0 percent in income taxes for every individual.
How ironic that this socialist piece of propaganda uses India and China as examples of why we should consider paying taxes a "privilege". Yeajh! We want our society to be more like India and China !!
Ha Ha Ha !
This is the quintessential example of "libtardian logic".
Romney simply spoke the truth, and now the leftist media is trying to spin-up reasons why we should be insulted that he spoke the simple truth
Rick,
You may want to try reading for comprehension. The article does not say we should be more like China and India. But, go ahead and keep calling people names and laughing at your own jokes. My kid has some soccer trophies we can donate to your ego.
This report is bias. It needs to compare the worlds powers because that is who the US is competing against. If someone can pay let say 15% less in Germany or Canada, then they are not moving to the US. Government is not the key but the problem. Why should I pay more taxes, so the GSA (goverment) can spend $823,000 on a Vegas Party which is not uncommon.
The article ABSOLUTELY does endorse our becoming more like India and China. It presents it as inevitable, hence the use of all the wonderful statistics. "Look how good we have it here"....duh! That's the very reason WHY more people come here to live than anywhere else on earth! But changing how our country works will end that quickly, and the time will come where Greece like rioting will occur here, as you can only take so much from so few.
@Mike - so cut off you nose to spite your face. Shure the GSA blew it and that kind of abuse should stop but because it happens is no reason not to support building roads and other infrastructure, or to not support a reasonable defense capability (yes they have their issues too). Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Don't pick up your marbles and go home just because someone stole 3 of your 30 and 300 of the 3,000 on the playground.
Thousands who don’t pay any federal income tax are just like Romney – very rich with special tax breaks! Problem is these same Ultra Rich are also very greedy; they don’t want to pay anything!
I'm not sure what you consider greed...how many millions of dollars did the Romney's donate to charity last year?
Envy. Romney paid more in one year than you've paid in your life, yet you belittle him? Don't give me percentages, either. They don't pay the bills. Dollars pay the bills. How much did YOU give in comparison to Romney. Exactly. Hope you feel guilty, because you should.
Yes, Romney paid more, and he made more, lots more. I pay 28% taxes and he paid 14% – so who paid 'more'. My gross income is $120,000 – what was Romney's. My percent to charity compared to Romney's percent? I moved mountains, took the dirt on the bottom and turned it into airplanes, autos, buses, refrigerators, freezers, microwaves, big screen HDTVs, and medical devices such as CAT-SCANS, that's what engineers and other men of science do – what did Romeny do? What did you do, buy and sell stocks?
Laughable....Romney ONLY paid 13% in Fed Income tax and I paid 28% and I work harder. Well, if you want to pay 13%, then start a business, make millions...pay the original income tax on that, then use your profits to INVEST and pay capital gains on that. Quit your whining. If someone makes 10 million a year in capital gains and 'only' pays 13% and you ONLY make 120k a year and pay 28% then the person paying 13% pays BY FAR MORE MONEY IN ONE YEAR THAN YOU DO IN A LIFE TIME and gets no better services.
We call this envy, Romney paid Fed Income taxes on his ORIGINAL income, then invests and pays ADDITIONAL on the capital gains while 47% of Americans are so f-in pathetic they don't pay a dime. Yes, class envy.
Get a new job if you don't like your salary or what you pay in income tax or close your yap.
@ drc:
Get a new job, you say?
Okay, how about "son of a millionaire Governor"?
The work isn't so hard, especially if you "like firing people" as Mitt says he does.
Where do I apply?
I wish this opinion would make an intellecutally honest argument by using meaningful comparisons of the US with other countries of similar wealth and per capita incomes. Comparing US tax rates to those of poorer countries does not illuminate anything useful in a comparative analysis. Comparing tax rates in the US to other OECD countries would be helpful and a better use of space on the website.
I too think there should have been more meaningful comparisons – but India and China are major economies...certainly your point would be true if the comparisons were Kenya or Ethiopia.
My frustration comes from the headline that made me click on the link to begin with was "Comparing U.S. tax rates to the rest of the world." I optimiscally was hoping for some kind of compartative analysis with a nice table or chart comparing tax rates. Instead, it is an rhetorical opinion piece about "makers and takers" that while an interesting perspective, I still felt misled.
What we consider poverty in this country is a whole different thing than those other countries also.
Of the people in "poverty" how many say the wake up hungry... an amazingly small amount.
And how many people in poverty own or buying their own home? 50 to 60 percent ?
How many own at least one car, or have air conditioning, or change on the dresser.
We are blessed to be in the United States. Please don't forget that...
post, that is true.
It's just that these people living in poverty with their own homes/car/air conditioning live paycheck to paycheck to maintain it and they work very hard to make sure they can keep doing so. Hard work should be rewarded!
And that does go for hard working folks in India and China as well.
This guy's math is terrible. It's 47% of ELIGIBLE taxpayers that pay taxes, not the entire population. Apparently CNN writiers aren't too smart.
Also Romney's rate doesn't include Social Security, Medicare, Payroll taxes etc. either, he pays more than the 14%. The guy has also gives a ton of money to charity, like 20% of his check, so it's not like he is keeping the rest. You would pay a lower rate too if you donated.
I know it's an opinion article, but very misleading.
Meant to say Don't* pay taxes.
If you are interested in the details, it's 47% of eligible taxpayers that do not pay federal income tax. The number of people who don't pay any taxes is very small, if not zero. Is it possible to avoid all payroll taxes, sales taxes, gasoline tax, and all the taxes described as fees and license charges and sucg?
Romney does donate a large amount of money to charity, which serves to reduce his tax load. He has enough money to do so, which most of us do not. Also, he is required by his church to do so, and his church does check his math on donations. I put some money in the plate each sunday, but it's not enough to itemize, and it never occured to me to do so. Yes it is valid, but is also seems cheap, and a bit sleazy. He makes his required donation, he gets a deduction for it, and then he wants people to applaud his generosity? His donations are not the real reason his tax rate is low. The reason his tax rate is low is that the vast majority of his income passes through the stock market which makes it eligible to be considered as a capital gain rather than taxable income. That is an option for him for two reasons, one being that he can afford to defer compensation long enough to enjoy that benefit without getting foreclosed or evicted, and the other reason being that back when he worked for a living, he worked in the financial sector. My auto mechanic makes good money, but I can't pay him in mutual fund shares that he can then hold onto for 12 months and then cash out and pay taxes on as capital gains, he is stuck getting good old fashioned money, which he has to report as income.
we give capital gains favorable tax treatment to encourage investing and ensure that those dollars are active in the economy. The problem being, that in practice, all that happens is that money gets locked up in the stock market and doesn't make any jobs at all.
Great argument: well written, and all true.
so you want to include 'sales' tax in the equation, please. With that ridiculous logic just about everyone breathing pays a tax. It is FEDERAL INCOME TAX and sorry but 47% of eligible/tax-filing people NOT contributing is pathetic. Granted 'some' people may not because of tough times 'now and then' but if you go through your entire life NOT contributing you should do the 53% a favor and jump off the nearest bridge.
@ drc:
People don't pay fed tax if they don't earn enough. they don't earn enough because the rest of us want everything super-cheap. So if you're willing to pay $20 for your next hamburger & fries, then they can pay the counter staf enough that they have to pay fed tax. Not everybody can have a high-pay, low-effort job (yeah, you heard me – I've had both and can tell you the janitorial staff work harder than the office staff) Somebody has to clean the toilets, and if we aren't willing to pay them well for it, then we shouldn't expect them to pay fed taxes on the little they make.
True – Romney's rate as reported does not include "payroll taxes". But do you really understand what those payroll taxes are, and how insignificant they are compared to his income?
Social security is 6.2%, but it caps at about $110,00 of income, so the maximum contribution is about $6,400 per year. Medicare is 1.45% with no cap – that would be his largest potential payroll tax. The other payroll taxes – Federal Unemployment and State Unemployment – you're kidding, right? Romney certainly has more cash in his wallet right now than those cost him in a year.
And don't forget, most of Romney's income is from investments, which is why he is paying such a low rate – no payroll taxes on that income.
So, have your opinion, but at least get the facts right.
Contributing heavily to his church is not voluntary, it's required. So Willard didn't 'contribute' to charity, he was shook down by his 'church'.
Romney doesn't pay payroll taxes. He pays less than .01% of his income on federal excise taxes. The only federal tax not included in the less than 13% income tax he owed for 2011 was his share as an investor of coporate income tax. His total federal tax burden is well under 20% even if we count only the taxable income and not the income sheltered in foreign banks etc.
Really? Comparing America to India and China? Let's look at Europe and see those percentages. My biggest beef with 47% paying no federal tax (too poor, in college, too many kids, ext) is that I have always paid. Fourteen years ago when I was in college, working 35 hrs/week in a restaurant, I STILL had to pay Federal Income Tax. Over the years that has changed, and now we are in so much debt America will never be the same. Wonder why? Not enough people "Sharing responsibility" as President Obumma would say. Time to make EVERYONE responsible.
Isn't "making everyone responsible" the same as "sharing responsibility?" Just sayin'.......
The 1% most likely create thousands of jobs. those jobs pay taxes and so on. There is a lot of revenue there for this great country. If you travel to the countries like India and China you would not want to live like the ones not paying taxes. Perhaps the world hates Americans because we want everything, take everything but don't want to pay for anything. Let's start thinking about an everybody pays mentality. We are all on the same ship, let's keep it afloat!
Great news! We are comparing ourselves to the peasants in China. Really? So we would be better off if 90% of the country was slave labor like China & India? Really? I hope the people that don't want to pay taxes enjoy rice as their main food source because that is what the 90% that don't pay taxes in China & India eat everyday. I would be nice if the press could stop insulting the intelligence of the American people, but sometimes I don't believe we are that intelligent anymore. Just take a look at Howard Stern's interview of New York votes if you have any doubt about it.
What a rotten bunch of untruths in this article.I pay taxes and and dont get govt handouts of any kind. Europeans always paid more for gas because they never bought in bulk like we do,plus they have a public transit system that actually allows people to leave cars at home.Medicaid and medicare are policies we pay into so we have health coverage when we retire,so whats the complaint about those who paid in collecting what were owed ?lastly,those countries he compared us to about taxes are , well , places where people dont make over the amount on which they pay taxes which is whar the GOP wants here.PEOPLE STAY ON WELFARE BECAUSE IT PAYS BETTER THAN THOSE REPUBLICAN JOBS THEY THINK WE SHOULD HAVE
Which jobs do republicans think people should have? If you can point out some available, unfilled jobs that pay enough to make the worker eligible to pay federal income tax, I would be interested in seeing what they are. Retail jobs don't pay enough to pay income tax, foodservice jobs don't make enough. Janitors, daycare workers, gas station jobs, none of them pay enough to make the worker eligible for income tax. Teachers and police officers only qualify after a few years in service. Truck drivers don't make enough and they don't even get to see their families on a routine basis. We exempt deployed military, on the subject of people who work hard and don't see their families. Military who aren't deployed don't make enough in their first enlistment period to qualify for federal income tax either.
We need a lot of those people to make our society work, and we don't pay them enough to justify making them pay federal income tax. We could try to get all those people into higher paying jobs, but then, who would do the jobs they are doing? It's a mistake to think that the people who are not paying taxes are not working.
Not to be a spoilsport because I think you were agreeing with me but leave the military out of this because,for one they were not drafted or forced into the military and two,its not America they are protecting but instead are wasting our resources on people who dont nor ever will appreciate us,sorry but this is how Americans feel about the mideast.
"Europeans always paid more for gas because they never bought in bulk like we do"
That may very well be the dumbest thing I have ever heard on the internet.
What do you think they do, go to the gas station and fill up little bottles one at a time and take them home to fill up their cars.
They buy fuel the exact same way we do from crude to refining to pump station. The only difference is that they pay an enormous amount of taxes on their fuel.
You obviously are too young to remember when that fact was news.The eurpeans dont have superhighways like we do and their city streets are very small and narrow so little cars that dont burn a lot of gas are popular there.By bulk,I meant the continent as a whole ,not your simpleton statement of them buying in bulk using little bottles to buy more.Their higher prices were explained to us in terms that the oil companies dont sell as much in europe as they do here so we get the discount AND the oil companies still make their huge profits , so dont blast guys like me that have been around longer and know about the stuff they arent telling people like you anymore.
The United States purchases very large volumes of oil compared to any European country, which is where the economy of scale comes into play, plus the higher taxes in Europe contribute to their high cost of gas.
A Universal Living Wage would help even out the Universal Income Gap
A Universal Living Wage? Bwaaa-haaa-haaa! Sure thing, Sparkie, just the ticket to cause tremendous unemployment when corporations say "no thanks". Where does the money come from?
Is the author aware of the quality of life of the average non-taxpayer in India or China compared to the average American?
Countries that have VAT (sort of national sales tax) would not need much from income tax. Comparing Chinese or Indian income taxing system to that of the U.S. is an utter nonsense. If you want to write about income tax and publish it, the author should done some home work before he does, even if it is for CNN to ridicule Romney.
We lost pensions,401Ks,jobs and solid futures for AMERICANS,under both Sr.& Jr. G.Bush like under no one else.
The republicans STILL HAVENT APOLOGIZED FOR WHAT THESE TWO MEN HAVE DONE TO THE AMERICAN WORKING MAN. Do they really think Mite Rob me has a sno balls chance in ou know where ,of winniig in November.
Romney's proposals are tax code simplifications which don't really change the existing structure. What I don't like is the way the tax code treats earned versus unearned income. Romney wants to keep capital gains tax rates lower than income gained through employment. If the unearned income were creating jobs at home, that would make sense, but most of the new investments are going to outsourcing and offshoring jobs. Time to quit subsidizing the job destroyers and tax them the same as everyone else.
Actually, if you read the "Ryan Budget", the plan is to altogether eliminate unearned income. Cap gains, dividends, and other investment income would be tax free.
wow you are right...I just read it. INSANE! So the super rich (who are the only ones that truly benefit from unearned income) will have to pay no taxes on their investments while the other guys working in my auto repair shop will have to pay lots of income tax? Truly we are being driven by manipulative people. The rich get richer, the poor stay the same. Thank you very much Wall Street for caring only about money and not about ethics, about family, about social responsibility. I for one, think that Wall Street is so greedy, that they have the best lawyers to screw anyone with just their tongue, speaking nothing true or false, but playing ball in the middle, keeping everything in balance until they need to tip the power to their side. Thank you awesome law professors!! Thank you awesome Economics professors! We all live in a strong moral, ethical society with good values and good thoughts!!
unearned income was already taxed once before, pea brain. where does a person's initial investment balance come from? fully taxable income you dolt.
We lost pensions,401Ks,jobs and solid futures for AMERICANS,under both Sr.& Jr. G.Bush like under no one else.
The republicans STILL HAVENT APOLOGIZED FOR WHAT THESE TWO MEN HAVE DONE TO THE AMERICAN WORKING MAN. Do they really think Mite Rob me has a sno balls chance in ou know where ,of winniig in November.we still have the bad taste of the Bushes on our tongues
TYPING IN ALL CAPS MAKES ME FEEL POWERFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President Obama created the TEA party
Without his left wing agenda they wouldn't exist.
Thanks Mr President for bringing us together.
We are more polarized than ever thanks to you.
If you remember,Obama was elected because working people in America couldn't handle the Republican anti-labor,anti-living wage movement. Just ask the millions of Americans who lost jobs,401Ks and pensions in the name of the Bush's NEW WORLD ORDER.
LOL you are a Demo....blame blame blame. How on earth did the Bush's do all that to your savings? Why not look at Clinton...the one who repealed Glass Steagall, the one who had banks merge and then collapse AIG because they couldn't insure loans...how about putting the blame where it belongs. Obama has outspent them all. WAKE UP
Please do not use payroll taxes as an example of poor paying into the system. Those are primarily used for their future benefits, not a true tax like income.
Not true, as you should know very well. The payroll taxes they're paying are to support today's retirees. As the Right is so fond of pointing out, there's no contract saying that money will be there for the payee's own retirement.
I am the only one who sees the irony in Republicans complaining about people not paying taxes?
If you spend thirty years cutting tax rates and freezing minimum wage, then crash the economy to the point that people aren't making any money, don't complain when people don't make enough money to meet the minimum taxation levels that you put in place.
Kind of hard to hide ignorance and lack of knowledge.
No, it should be obvious to a dolt. But thanks for poniting it out.
Good points derp
Hilarious article. First it's the new normal. Now we're saying it's not so bad, we're on par with India and Asian nations.
We're in a race to the bottom.
Remember, the fact that you have to live in a home that's half the size of the ones your parents owned is a GOOD thing.
After all, they're doing in in India.
Taxes...numbers. Anyone knows numbers tell a story and one can use the exqact same numbers to tell a good story or a bad. One can look good or bad just based on how numbers are portrayed. Example: Romeney does not pay his fair share. For a bad story we will state he pays only 13. x %. Since I pay about 33% I can say it is not fair. He is not contributing HIS fair share. But if the story were that I paid $150,000.00 in taxes and Romney paid $1,985,500.00 in taxes it is hard for me to claim my share- my contribution to society- is fair and his is not. We can argue all we want because we either like the man or not, his party or not, or anything else. The truth is we have created a percentage table so we all paid our fair share of our income but as we spend more and more we have to require more and more from some so we now have multiple brackets of percentages. Unfortunately, those who seek our votes inorder that they may have personal power over us use these numbers in order to cast a bad and unfair story and we are so willing to read it and be manipulated by it. Perhaps the question shold be are we all contributing equally to society- isn't that the real question and what is best for society? There are times I needed assistance and angry as I was at those who had plenty, I also knew that witjut them there wold be no assistance for me. Now that I am able to provide for others, it is odd to be viewed so negatively for that ability and my contribution for helping those who need it. Funy world we live in.
As many people have alread pointed out, this author is comparing apples to onions. Most industrialized nations have taxes on all but the very poorest, but even they're not completely immune since most countries have a value added tax on goods and services. Even the working poor will see more than 20% of their income consumed by social security and medical taxes. The author also notes that in Europe you would pay twice as much for gas but fails to mention that most of those countries have extremely high taxes on their gas. In Germany, you pay $8.10 per gallon on just the tax for a gallon of gas. Taxes are by far more fair in the European countries that they are here in the States.
Fareed's numbers are incorrect. Specifically, he compared the percentage of the total number of PEOPLE in China and India to the number of US HOUSEHOLDS that do or do not pay taxes. People against households...really Fareed? In the USA, there are approximately 320 million people but only 111 million households. Approximately 70 million people paid (federal) taxes so only around 22% of the population paid federal income taxes. And let's not ignore that China and India don't levy state income taxes that most Americans must pay.
And folks quit drinking Obama's kool aid...this is a ruse to personally attack Romney when all he is doing is following the laws that Congress has enacted...just like all those rich and well to do Democrats. If Obama and the dems didn't like the tax laws then why didn't they just change them during the first two years of his Presidency? They ramrodded Obamacare and they could have done the same with tax reform....they didn't which shows their true colors.
.05% of the United States' population bears 100% of the burden of war fighting while the other 99.5% chants meaningless, insincere mantras like "support the troops"-as long as its doesn't cost a penny.
But the 99.5% die in the war that the 0.5% sponsors for the interest of 0.5% so the 0.5% can sit safely home and enjoy the destruction worldwide...seems true for all countries..dummies
how are taking federal student or federal parent loans "taking"? they are paid back to the government with interest. the government makes money on these loans.
Sigh. Yet another educated person taking Romney's 47% comment out of context. We live in a time of such intellectual dishonesty that most of us don't even bother to search for the facts anymore. If it supports our existing beliefs, it must be true. So does anybody care that Romney was talking about his campaign when he said it wasn't his job to worry about the 47%? That his point was that he should not focus his campaign resources on people that wouldn't vote for him anyway? Romney may be a flaming idiot, but there's no reason to lie to make your point. This lie is now commonly accepted as fact, and that's disheartening. Intellectually lazy voters get what they deserve. And the rest of us suffer for it.
"Romney may be a flaming idiot" and that's exactly why we're not voting for him.
There were many aspects to the Romney comment. He was broadly grouping ALL Obama supporters into this single characterization. He also ignored the number of his own supporters that fall into this category of non-tax payers. While he may have been trying to state a campaign logic, it was with a very broad brush. It was also totally in context and revealed a lot about his thought processes. You can try to justify it how you like – it is there for all to see.
some indian communist elitest writing nonsense. ravi needs to go back to india or pakistan and stop complaining.
Racist much?
No I'm not racist. I'm tired of these Indian and Pakistanis coming to the US and telling us things. If you're an immigrant in the US, you should keep your mouth shut and be thankful you get to live here. We don't need Ravi whatever his last name is telling us how fortunate Americans are.
Odd why no one asks WHY 47%v of the American workforce do not make enough to pay income tax. Where are the good paying jobs? Who are these under-employed (young adult? college educated? disproportionatly who??)? Are the members of the 47% permanent or are they entry-level (new) employees? Instead of (misplaced) outrage at the non-payment of taxes, we should be asking why in a country with a large proportion of college graduates there are so many individuals earning minimum wage salaries?
Let's look at TAX RATES ! ! - ALL taxes, NOT just Income Tax -
And, let's calculate tax rates as a percentage of DISCRETIONARY INCOME -
That income left over after one just sustains his life !
For a too-large proportion of America, Discretionary Income is ZERO or negative ! .
Therefore, the Tax Rate for those is [ Any Tax / ZERO ] = INFINITE %
THAT is a LOT more than 13.2%, would you not say ? ? ?
The GoPers do NOT do too well with simple arithmetic, do they ?
The subject is FEDERAL income tax mo-ron. I, and most people, could care less than someone is paying sales tax, FICA, property tax, gasoline tax, cell phone tax and EVERY other tax WE ALL PAY.
If you work a job and are too pathetic to have planned your life to account for your living situation, then the only person to blame is YOU! No one, other than falling on hard times for a SHORT period of time, should be exempt from FEDERAL INCOME tax 100%. PERIOD. If you make INCOME, you should pay something, even if it is a minimum of X-amount a year.
Sorry but the 53% of us are tired of paying for the 47% who think paying sales tax, or liquor tax, or cigarette tax or any other sorry excuse for a tax makes up for FEDERAL INCOME tax. yet those same 47% with their hands out have no problem taking all the positives of Federal Income tax.
If we didn't benefit from the support of our fellow humans, we'd all be living as isolationists. Obviously, we all need each other, which means at any one time their is a group of us that will need help. Get over it GOP.
simplistic in a good way, that wood have to be 17% of the lowest income working, "Its not a big deal or a problem, stay the course this works; further now on the soap, a europian model is something that requirse no worry, this while recognizing the common in India, south america, africa, and.."stay the course and, your better!"
In India the malnutrition rate is about 47%....so much for their government welfare for citizens.
also
In some form or the other, we are all takers; every single one of us. It’s not just government programs; look at subsidies. In the U.S. for example, a gallon of gasoline costs nearly $4. But you would pay twice as much in most of Europe. Even the Indians and Chinese pay more.
The author tries to let us believe that we in the U.S. are benefiting from the government for $4 gasoline when in reality the reason the Europe pays twice as much for gas as we do is because their governments add about $5 a gallon in taxes to pay for their social programs.
Dean, they pay twice as much in Europe for gas because they TAX gas more, not because the US subsidizes gas. And India and China populace pays less for gas because they do subsidize it, which is one reason why oil on the world market costs so much, because of the increasing demand from India and China.
What we are hearing from this opinion, is that it is JUSTIFIABLE that people in America don't pay any taxes.
I would argue that it is NOT Justifiable. The reason we have so many people who do not pay taxes today, is simply that people get too many credits. Not only do they get credits for kids, they are getting double credits for kids, under the hand out mentality of Obama. It makes no sense to give people tax breaks who have JOBS! It does make sense to provide a safety net for those out of work.
It makes no sense to provide free birth control to women, when birth control is so inexpensive, and most can indeed afford to pay for it.
We have to stop giving away stuff just to give away stuff. That is what we have been doing......and it makes NO SENSE.
Nor, should any citizen pay zero taxes. Not ANY! There should be, a minimum federal income tax that every citizen pays, even the poorest citizens. That should be an obligation of every citizen.
This administration is doing nothing about saving American jobs, and indeed the middle class of America, along with that.
What they ARE doing, is saying it is Ok, and even desirable, for America to become like India or China, where the majority live in poverty, reliant on government hand outs, while the wealthy few, dictate every aspect of their lives to them, who are in Washington, DC.
What they ARE saying, in that philosophy, is that they WANT and INTEND to become socialist dictators, in this country. That is indeed, the premise of this opinion.......that we should ACCEPT a socialist dictatorship in America, and indeed we should EMBRACE it! We should WANT to become Greece, or India, or China!
If that is indeed what America wants......then we should go ahead and change the name of America to Obamaland........because we will NO LONGER be free.......and we will NO LONGER have any control over our own destiny!
That s the real choice we will make in November. Vote for a dictator, or for a free America. It is the peoples choice. I do hope they will select freedom.
I think the majority of Americans will be voting against the dictatorship of Tea Party America.
You just made up a bunch of stuff with nothing to support your argument whatsoever.
When the Republicans were taxing the uber-rich at 70% there was little complaining as most understood nation building. They still had more then enough for giant homes, high-end cars, trips, etc. This left the middle class with spending power which drove the economy and increased everyone's wealth. Even the poor were at times able to work their way up the ladder. Pushing the burden down cuts back on spending by the majority of folks which hurts, hiring, mobility, etc. I never saw a rich person living in a tent under a bridge but there are former middle class who are.
Think of it in the same way a house budget works with duel income and leaves play money. The paying of bills should be based on the percent of both incomes totaled. I'll use 70/30 of a 100,000 total for 8333 income a month which is divided up 5833/2500. Monthly bills & saving average 7500 a month. 70% pays 5250, 30% pays 2250. That leaves 70% with 583 and 30 with 250. The more you make the more you keep but the 30% is ensured spending money each month. Of course the 70% better be paying for that dinner out........
What a stupid piece this is. Compare tax rates in developing third world countries and authoritarian regimes to the USA and conclude thatwe should feel privleged to pay taxes and be happy that 53% carry the other 47% on their back?!?! What are you drinking??? If that's your dream for America then please leave. It is not mine, I believe in equality in every way – equal rights, equal pay, equal opportunities, and yes equal taxation. You can pick and choose where you want to be equal.
How about anyone making $ 20 M or more per year pays no taxes? Since Republicans state that mostly rich people create jobs and since they also state taking all the 1%'ers money wouldn't dent the national debt, why not no taxes for the very rich. Bet Romney would go for that. Any jobs they created would go overseas and they would just get filthier rich. And they would have no compunction accepting this. This plan follows their logic perfectly.
Was this article plagiarized too?? FIRE Fareed NOW!!!
Good article. I've never agreed with the 47% doesn't pay taxes bull crap! I see taxes period not just federal income tax. Everyone in this country pays some form of a tax! It is only with the federal income tax that things get screwed up. Our tax code is reputed to have 71,684 pages in 2010 alone. With so many loopholes in those pages it's no wonder that the wealthy can stop working and live off profits that those loopholes gives them alone! How many of the 47% can afford the accountant to find their loopholes? As for me I have nothing against those who have wealth, it's the way that they have acquired it that bothers me. As the old saying goes, we live by the golden rule, they who have the gold makes the rules. But some rules should be amended for equity's sake.
Much to do about nothing when it comes to outrage over the video. Every single person should be outraged about those people who do not pay into the system, have never paid into the system and yet take from the system and that was what Romney was talking about. The money in the US Treasury is not your money, it is our money, it is not free and did not appear by magic. Someone had that money taken from them, if you take it without paying the money in, you are a thief.
Yes, we have a progressive tax system in place where those that can afford more taxes pay more taxes and others that are poorer pay less or even nothing at all. Why should that upset me? A few of my dollars are going to help some people. Oh no. Are some people taking advantage of it? Sure. That will happen in any system that is ever set up. That's the whole point of our system.
Also, if you are so against that, don't vote for Romney either. He may stoke up irrational hate like he's done with you but he has no plan to change this system materially. If you think a progressive tax system is wrong, there are a few politicians out there who agree. They don't have much support though.
We do need to cut down government spending, but no politician with a chance of winning is going to do it. We don't have to turn on our own people and start thinking anyone that's poor is some moocher to do it either.
Scott-
One of the issues that underlies this discussion is that in many cases, the federal income tax system is not the progressive system we have been lead to believe. The progressive feature tends to hold true with the bottom say 60-75% percent but diminishes and even reverses as one gets to the higher levels. While the advertised tax rate increases it tends to apply to less and less of the dollars of income and all income is not taxed according to the uniform scale. This way Romney (or Buffet) pay a much smaller percentage of their income in federal income taxes.
Someone argued that percentages do not pay bills. That may be true but higher percentages raise more money to pay more bills, and percentage comparison is one measurement of a just and fair tax system.
There has been much written about the so called class war and taxing the rich at burdensome levels, but as the Buffet example shows this is not the case, but in reality the top earners are now where near par now. That is a problem!
Taxes in the US....
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Sales Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
In many countries, including the ones cited, value added taxes, sales taxes, or other consumption taxes–which everybody pays, rich and poor alike–are main sources of revenue. Looking only at income tax misses an enormous part of the picture; it is surprising that someone who claims to be an analyst can simply ignore this with a straight face.
Not sure why that matters. I'll jump on board to support any real politician that isn't a loon that is willing to support a consumption tax with VAT. No one's willing to do it.
47% of all eligible taxpeyers in America pay federal income taxes. How many of that 47% vote Republican? Romney's premise is that they all vote for the Democrat. That is a fallacy. In fact, many of the 53% will vote for Obama for president, including in that mix business leaders and professionals. Romney's premise is that most of the 47% who pay no taxes actively draw sustenance from the federal government because they want to, taking no responsibility for their own lives. That, too , is a fallacy. Many of those are working, but at low paying jobs. Many of those would work if they could find a job. And most of them would be hard working productive citizens, if they had that opportunity. Romney sees union members as "Takers", and educators as "Takers" and regulators as "Takers" and ordinary working men and women as "Takers". That is a fallacy. While some people take what they can, most people give what they have to give, many of them unselfishly, and some of the heroically. That is America. "Makers v. "takers is a made up scenario, a real red herring. You have to love the 47% as well as the 53% if you love this country.
Comparing “taxes” across nations is extremely tricky. Different countries pursue differing tax policies . Some emphasize individual income or payroll, others emphasize consumption, some more corporate, etc. Then you have the added complexity of differing economic bases (i.e., GDP). Three are also differing organizational structures (national/federal, state/provincial, local/municipal, etc.). About the best that can be done is to, within a country, add all forms of government revenue collection across all levels of government, add them up, and then normalize them by GDP. The OECD periodically does exactly that for the 34 nations it tracks.
Using 2008 data (avoids the global downfall questions), the U.S. ranked at 31 out of the 34 with total government revenues at 26.3% of GDP. The highest was Denmark at 48.1% of GDP, the lowest was Mexico at 20.9% of GDP. The average was 34.6% of GDP.
Bottom line – The U.S. has a low total effective tax rate compared to other developed countries.
Without predicting who will win the presidency in November it's still vital that the electorate votes. If President Obama wins a second term, he will still need a "landslide mandate" to get this divided Congress to work together. The same outcome is needed by Romney if he wins. If the legislators believe they can keep their seats in the House and the Senate, and continue bumping heads to placate their bases, then no matter who is president we won't move forward during these critical times. They have to fear some political threat before they will start talking to each other.
What kind of B.S. propaganda is this. I've cruised down the Yangtze River in the 2000's and in many places the big entertainment for local families is to stand on the river bank and watch the cruise ships go by, while the water buffalo with which they plow their fields grazes nearby. These people make about $1000 per year. Are we supposed to compare them with American workers? In addition, about 22 of those 47% are Seniors on retirement Social Security from whom the government makes a nice overall profit, selling the Soc. Sec. Admin low-interest-paying special bonds. Most of us and our employers paid 12.4% of our GROSS salaries into Soc. Sec. our entire working lives. We are NOT getting a handout!
I love how in this artcile the author cites India and China as two shining examples of how no one pays income taxes, and we Americans should really wise up. The one inescapable problem, though, is that India is a Third World impoverished peonage, with a disgusting caste system, and China is a totalitarian commie dump. Both countries have unwisely allowed themselves to be overpopulated almost out of existence, and 99% of the people in each country live in poverty so severe that America's inner city ghettos look charming and attractive by comparison. Now, before you globalist "We Are The World" lefties start complaining and whining, if I'm wrong, why do all the Indians and Chinese come to America? I don't know of any native-born American who wants to emigrate to India, unless he's of Indian heritage. Using India and China to compare anything to America is automatically losing the argument.
Romney is a major "taker". Considering that he pays 13-15% in taxes (or less for returns he's is not releasing), he is among those who got a major government giveaway to those whose money is from "unearned" income – investment interest and gains. Because of the scale of his income, this "take" is the equivalent of a village of 47 percenters. Romney is also a net job destroyer, not a creator. Combining his corporate raiding through Bain, and his dismal record creating jobs in Massachusetts (47th in the nation – he seems to like that number), Romney is in serious negative territory.
If you want to live like a Republican, Vote Democrat.
Here I go- a Libertarian- arguing for MORE government. The examples you give of low taxes tell the story: India and China? Really? You mean China with a GDP of $2,000/year? You could not find any developed Western countries that matched your meme so you had to go to India? There is NO Western, civilized, developed country where the bottom half of citizens pay nothing while the top 1% pays over 1/2. None- except the U.S. Study this link then get back to me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending#International_government_spending_as_a_percentage_of_GDP
Notice that all Western Countries are in the narrow range of 30-50 percent. Only undeveloped countries like India, Somolia etc are below that threshold. You might also notice that when you get above 40% you get into the PIGS of Europe and the near failed States. When you get above 35 (the U.S. went from 32 to 35 under Obama) you get increasing unemployment and slow economic growth. Welcome to reality CNN.
While there is much more to be said on this subject, this is a good start at analyzing fundamentals. We are such a jaded society. We refuse to be told how sausage is made. We do not demand it and our politicians and religious leaders refuse to tell us. Primitive Darwinian instincts move us. All it takes is a little propaganda and we follow.
What we really will refuse to discuss is that ALL OF OUR GREAT WEALTH is a gift from God (or Mother Nature, if you prefer). The wealth of our own nation is the result of conquest against Native Americans. It is also a product of slavery. The wealth of some few individuals is the result of gifts of millions of acres from King George. Wealth has always been controlled by the few who are close to the center of the herd, the cronies of the strong and powerful who can raise an army to conquer and enslave others. Western societies have attempted to correct these abuses starting with the Magna Carta and ending the with American and French Revolutions following periods of enlightenment. It will probably take another period of enlightenment to balance out the abuses over the last century. Much of the world is in conflict and there is suffering by billions in Africa and India. I would consider an economic model which brings us closer to the reality – the wealth of the world is to be held as a trust for generations to come – not simply for future generations of the wealthy classes. I do believe that we have had many wealthy industrialists who have promoted this model. At least Carnegie and now Bill Gates.
Why should we see paying taxes are a privilege when Obama himself reduced his income tax by $13,000 by deducting the interest on his mortgage? In fact, the LA Times reported that Obama paid 20.5% in 2011. That rate was higher than Romney's, but still lower than that of his secretary. If it's such a good and patriotic thing to do then shouldn't the president be leading by example and paying more than his deductions afford him and at least be paying a higher rate than his secretary? Of course he is given a pass because he is affiliated with the proper party.
Things might cost more without the subsidies, but without the subsidies we would have more untaxed money to spend! Never hurts to use a little critical thinking, a commodity in short supply in the age of Reality TV! Yikes!
And a little more critical thinking might lead you to a different conclusion altogether. One of the purposes of government is to help maintain a stable economy. Unregulated markets can be very volatile. Volatile markets can cause disruption and dislocation, can lead to unrest as it has in Greece and Spain. All political parties, GOP included, have, over the last 100 years supported policies to support one market or another. Some of them have been wise. Some not so wise. But you do not abandon principles just because there has been some abuse of such programs. The government, after all, must address macro economic issues and be less worried about your own personal finances. The money which you pay in taxes to support one program or another will not become unproductive. That tax money will simply move through the system where it will finally go into the coffers of the banks and the small businesses who will pass a share along to you. are you doing so badly that you need some support and cannot do it by yourself? Great. Apply for assistance if you need it. You will get back on your feet and what you earn will be passed along to someone else who might need it. It is really a very good system. It has actually worked during the Obama administration. He saved the banks. Now they need to take their recent profits and pass it along to us. They are holding onto 1 1/2 trillion dollars in reserves. Why? Business is holding two trillion in cash. Why? The middle class is out of cash. The goverment can primie the pump to jump start the economy. No need to cut taxes on business. They have all the cash they need.
I don't know about you but I don't want the US to be like India or China. But hey if you want 47% of the country to only make $3,700 a year like in India please keep using this argument.
1. Romney's "47%" comments where made as an answer to the question "How can you win the election?" His response in that context was that he was going to focus on swing voters, which he could convice to vote for him, and not worry about the Democrat core voters, which he could not – which is why he said he "didn't care about" them – only in the context of who to target in terms of getting votes from between now and the election.
2. He said a lot of other things that even in the context of the question were wrong, that is quite true.
3. Having the ability to go out and work hard and become successful and/or wealthy is what this country is supposed to be be about.
4. Everyone should have the right to decide how to dispose of their income. Forcefully redistributing monetary wealth to "equalize" everyone is un-American. If you work hard and become wealthy and you decide to hold onto your money, that's your right, just like someone else may give a lot of their money to others.
agian another case of Libs hearing what they want to hear instead of what was actually said. Romney never said he didn't care about the 47% of Americans that don't pay taxes. In context, he said he wasn't going to waste time worrying about the 47% of Americans that were going to vote for Obama no matter what he did. He was going to try to get the independents to vote for him, not die hard Dems. Why is that so hard to understand?
That's right, the 47 percent of Americans whom Rubber Mitt writes off as moochers pay taxes as well as Ravi Agrawal rightfully states. But then, in his op-ed Ravi leaves out one tax that is probably the largest hitter for the poorest Americans to pay: the Sales Tax! And sales tax is a form of tax that hits poor people disproportionably harder than wealthy and even middle income people.
And then Republicans accuse Obama of “class war fare”? Funny. Because the reality is that it is the Repugnicans themselves who instigate this so called class war fare. Through fairytales like these, where they accuse 47% of hard working Americans of not paying their fair share. Disgusting. What happened to the Republican party? Republicans like Lincoln, Eisenhower and even Reagan would be spinning in their graves about all this.
I once was a Republican. But that mistake I will never make again.
I'm 30 years old make approx 59K a year (before taxes). My cousin, who's 46 lost his job and has 2 kids, is surviving currently on 29K (before taxes) a year with his wife's income. Do I think they or others like them should be paying income tax? No. Nothing is solved by making households with 2 children making under 30K a year pay taxes. People in that situation SPEND all of their addition cash and do not save it, because they have to. This spending probably stimulates the economy more than taxing them.
Whereas, you give the top 1% a tax cut, they SAVE it. Feel free to look it up. They invest liquid assets (cash) in their companies. Making it "look good to potential investors" because they have cash reserves. But if nobody can buy anything this is a moot point. Feel free to flame my post all you want. But the last recession we had the income tax brackets were substantially higher and it was a combination of tax cuts and spending that brought us out. You can't spend/tax your way out of a recession nor can you cut your way out of a recession, it has to be the appropriate level of both.
Here’s the latest lie. Now it’s Obama fault the National Debt has run up. WOW!!! You really have to go a long way to get to this one. First there was Bush with his 2 wars borrowing over 10 Billion a month from Chain to pay for them for the 8 years he was in office. And due to the recession he caused, our GNP was never enough to enable us to even pay the interest on that and all of our other debts; driving our National Debt even high. All this before we even elected President Obama. Yet, somehow, in trying to turn all this around, it’s his fault. But, I wouldn’t get too concerned; next week they’ll try to feed another lie to the people. Just think how they would do if they could actually win an election for President. WOW!!!!
Our ancestors left the rest of the world for a number reasons. All good. Americans that have power need to start carrying about their fellow Americans and it starts with making the 47% understand that their lives are headed the way the European's are – downward. I am sure you can argue Romney will not change things for the 47%, but the current administration has done nothing to help the 47% and they have had 4 years. That should the be real issue. Obama promised immigration reform – nothing, employment – no improvement, education – worse than ever, nothing has gone upward except words and the real cost of living, not deeds. Both parties are at fault and unfortunately booth are controlled by wealthy donors who probably haven't had a poor person in their home for 20 years ( the donors, not the candidates). The hired help doesn't' count. Change will only come from a vibrant and involved middle class which is going the way of the dodo bird. Most of the politicians only care about how much they an take out of the system for themselves, family and friends. Research their children and investments – insider trading to flat out payments for no-show jobs.
In this country the rich upper class gets all the profits while the poorer lower class gets stuck with the losses.
Paying income tax is a privilege. Just saying that, yes, I feel so much better now.
Heavily biased article; none of this goes away no matter who wins in November. Nor does the deficit with its austerity payload for the next generation.
Obama's path advances debt and irresponsibility; Romney's greed with injustice. Choose your poison.
Elections are always a choice of picking the lesser of two evils. Although I haven't lived through that many presidency's I would bet that this has always been the case.
Well said !
A more appropriate statement would suggest that the American 47% (who pay no taxes) should be happy there are so many shoulders (among the 53%) to carry the load.
I think that a major point is being missed... look at what we receive from taxes. Public schools, libraries, roads, government services (police, firefighters, help for the desolate). China and India aren't exactly giving back to their communites in these same ways. I think that regardless of how much Americans pay, we still get a lot of things in return whereas those in China and India don't. I don't exactly agree with the authors arguement that people *want* to pay taxes, but I do agree that people will want to drive on passable roads, have an education, and be able to contribute to society in a positive way.
The mindless arguments so far are like how many angels can you fit on the head of a pin. Who cares how much taxes the candidates pay? The real point is they're spending too much time on negative irrelevant issues. What the American people want to hear is "what are you going to do for America, for me, for our future. What are your specific program proposals" Think that this campaign is pathetic.
Blame the media outlets for this, and read something other than CNN for a change.
HINDU KALI – GODDESS OF TAXATION
Who says Indians don't pay taxes.... This is the ultimate taxation !!!!
A recent report by United Press trust of India (UPI) stated that during the past three years more than 2,500 young boys and girls were sacrificed to goddess Kali in India. Another of AFP's recent reports say: hundreds of young boys and virgin girls are sacrificed every month for the deity Kali. In one case Rama Sewak hacked his eight year old son to death in broad daylight in Delhi because goddess Kali had told him he would come back to life and bring him good fortune. Bloodthirsty Kali is worshipped openly the length and breadth of India. Kali's statue stands naked astride the inanimate body of the Hindu deity Shiva, tongue stuck out with blood dripping from fang-like teeth. She holds a noose, a skull-topped staff, a blood-encrusted sword and a severed head. She is also known as Durga, Devi, Shaktima, Uma and Parvathi in other manifestations. The priest of Delhi, Kali Bari, says that a child sacrificed to Kali ensures a man the birth of a son. Human sacrifices are also made to these gods or goddesses, either to appease them or to ask favours of them.
Part of the surprise comes from our collective experience. In my experience, I've been paying income taxes continuously since I was 16 year old. And I think if I were to replay that today, there were a number of times when I paid income tax that I wouldn't under the current tax code. When I was in high school in the late 1980s, I worked summer jobs, and typically made $3000 or so over the summer. I was still a dependent on my parents income tax, so I didn't get any exemption, and paid income tax. In college I made slightly more money over the summers, and paid income tax. I even paid income tax on a scholarship that was used to pay for room & board. After I graduated from college I went into the USAF, and started with a salary in the low $20k range. I was no longer on a dependent of my parents, so I got the exemptions, but they weren't enough, so I still was paying income tax.
Did some math. My summer earnings were smaller in HS, probably in the $1600 to $2000 range, except the summer I worked two full time jobs. I probably made $3000 that year.
Spare us your rubbish. India is a bully and a trouble maker in that region. It has kept the neighbors behind due constant bickerings. India has always lived in the shadow of Pakistan and has been forever defined by Pakistan. Unfortunately, India had a chance at leadership and blew it. Pakistan has now taken over the reins and is running with it. Much to the chagrin of Indians. So be it. Destiny has dealt its hands and India is about to fold.
Actually, if you think about it, the people that benefit the most from Government spending are the rich. Why you ask? Look at it this way, we have the largest military in the world to protect the American way of life. Now if something horrible happened and some foreign power conquored us, who stands to lose the most? Do the average Joe's and the poor, or will it be the rich and priveledged? Same for our bloated legal system. I'm not advocating some sort of communist redistribution of wealth, but I paid 28% of my gross last year in taxes. I don't make nearly enough money to live on investment income, and any money I do invest has to go to my 401k. So, excuse me, if I don't get all super excited to listen to Romney tell me how tax cuts for the rich benefit the country when he pays less than half of what I pay, at least by percentage. I'm not overly thrilled with Obama and his continuation of failed social programs either. I know it's a lost cause, but I'm voting Libertarian.
Or imagine the more likely scenario that we don't adequately support the poor: whose neighborhood are they going to hit up for stuff to steal to support themselves? Tract housing inhabited by people who have little more stuff than the poor do, or the big leafy suburbs with the very best stuff and plenty of places to hide?
I make an average wage and I am proud to pay my taxes. I think the government should do more for its people, not wait for some charity to do it. I don't understand people who find every way they can to pay less taxes and then wave their flags and act all patriotic. Some people even say "support our troops" but just ask them to give up some of their money and suddenly they don't care what happens to veterans or their families.
To those on the right and those that continue to prop up your candidate...If you can remember that far back, John McCain and Sarah Palin were done in September. The reason they were toast was due to Sarah Palin. America was able to clearly see what a dumb, non-qualified person she was as did the handlers of John McCain. Once you make your V/P selection, I guess it's difficult in mid stride to have "buyers remorse".
The TeapubliCANT party has known from day one that Mitt Romney was a poor candidate and he only made things worse with his selection of Paul Ryan.
Now I'm not going to go on record and say that something negative could happen and Romney still wins, but it's highly unlikely. As we draw closer to November 6th, I feel better and better about my country. I feel all Americans will have a chance for a better life, not the 1 or 2%.
Last comment...next time you see Romney making a speech, watch this guy..He has no ideas of his own and he basically says what his minders have told him to say. In fact I'll go so far as to say that this guy only believes that he is entiltled to the presidency. Paul Ryan has no convictions of his own. He can't give a speech without disrespect towards the President while he reads from his notes/bullit points.
Ask Alaska how dumb Satah Palin is. Alaska is doing great. Ask the great lake area how well they are doing, and might as well ask them if they have an reception with their obozophone.
By all means please stay home and don't vote, since Obama already won. Idiots like you are doing your messiah Obama a great diservice, keep telling people that's it's over and Obama won and people are going to start to believe and stay home on November 6 since Obama already won and it's only Sept. 27th.
1. The 53% should be proud and honored to pay taxes? Bahahahah Because hardly anyone in India or China gets the privilage. Bahahahah
2. Romney is fueling class division? Bahahahahah He's isn't running daily articles about the evil rich or pandering articles about unions. The left wing militant media fuels the class division because they see it as "social justice."
3. A tax payer gets to drive on a road and use gas so they totally reap the rewards of their financial loss. Bahahahah
This stuff is so good. Talk about preaching to the left-wing militant choir. Such a shameful echo chamber disguised as thoughtful analysis. Orwell was sooooo right.
This isn't China or India. Thank God. As much as HALF the population in India lives in poverty. Let's try to set the bar a bit higher in our comparisons.
So...yeah...think you pay too much in taxes? CNN reminds us it could be worse, we could be living in China. That's how you win over the tax payers, remind them it could be worse (insert sarcasm). Taxation in the 13 Colonies was 25 times less than citizens living in Britain. Taxes are not always about the amount, it is about where the money goes and what it is used for. This is like saying "if you think cancer rates are high, remember in other countries it is worse, so we should be thankful the rate is as low as this". All of this election is garbage anyway. If people truly cared this much about the economy, there would be higher turnouts in midterm elections.
Oh my, this article is just laughable...
For some reason, the author feels compelled to compare income distribution in the US with 3rd world nations like India and China. Try comparing the US against something with closer demographics and political philosophies, like Western Europe.
"Mitt Romney’s revelation that his “job is not to worry” about the “47 percent of the people” who “pay no income tax”"
That's not what Mitt said. He didn't say that he wasn't worried about the 47% of people who pay no income tax. What he did say is that he wasn't going to concern himself with pandering to this group in order to attempt to solicit their vote in November. He absolutely IS concerned about 100% of the American population. He's just not willing to sacrifice his principles to pander to a voting block that is clearly in the tank for Obama.
"We tend to think of income tax as a burden. Perhaps we should see it as a privilege"
Really? Seriously? You think that income tax should be viewed as a privilege? Then why don't you feel privileged for all of us and pay my share too.
Excellent remark.
Love comparisons of US vs China and India. Very similar countries, economies, and living standards
"In some form or the other, we are all takers; every single one of us."
I believe you've stumbled upon the root of the problem. The number of takers has grown beyond a sustainable amount.
I just want to be able to TAKE more than I MAKE...
Do we really want to emulate China and India, where the majority of people live in poverty?
Gasoline prices are lower in the US than in Europe, because the taxes are on gasoline are higher in Europe than in the US, not because gasoline prices are subsidized in the US.
Is this what passes for journalism at CNN?
Great article. Mark hit the nail on the head. If we continue like this we can be like China and India with 90% of our population living in total poverty. No TV's No Obamaphones, nothing. I used to believe very few would believe this kind of propaganda, but now it appears at least 47% do.
Obamaphone? You realize that never existed right and that it was a lie made up by the Romney campaign? That program was signed into law in 2008 by Bush. Why is it that the Right Wing has such difficulty with basic things like calendars and remembering who was in office in a particular year? Perhaps you should learn how to use a search engine.
There are only two kinds of taxes, good ones and bad ones. I pay the bad ones and you pay the good ones.
yes this article compared us to Asia and all you guys are clearly excited about it, you are PATHETIC.
And FYI not all military are deployed overseas. CNN clearly shows me how blind most of you are to the real world. This is the only country that its a crime to work and become rich, While entertainers are lavished praised and worshipped.
Here's an idea, stop comparing us to other countries and only worry about America for a change.
Paper, Have you BEEN outside the States? Instead of ignoring what the rest of the countries are doing we need to LOOK at what they are doing and how they are doing so we do not repeat the mistakes and/or miss the opportunities. With the America only point of view we will blindly make the same mistakes that other countries have made.
This is the most moronic article I've ever read. Is this guy really comparing the US tax system to communist China where the goverment takes a dip into everyone's pockets one way or another, since most of them are working for the goverment, and the s"'thole that is India where the majority of the people live in poverty? How about making a more accurate and relevant comparison with countries in Europe. The liberal media what else was I to expect.
Let have the special elite club for tax payers in America. If you pay taxes you can get full advantage of everything, free medical care, free education, access to White House dinner and special events, etc. For immigrants that pay taxes will have special elite path of becoming citizens. I think that would be fare. If there is no elite than why should people pay taxes to the government when government screws us every single day?
Gas is NOT subsidized! The reason we pay less than other countries is because it is taxed less! Do your homework!
Yeah, we should probably be more like India and China where upwards of 98% of the population doesn't even have $3,000 in their pockets. You liberal monsters are destroying this country with your warped reasoning.
Exactly. I loved the part where we are supposed to feel priveleged to pay taxes. Lol!
Oh, and grouping student loans and medicare with the other freebie federal programs is so intellectually dishonest, it's contemptible. Student loans are not free nor is medicare. Students eventually have to pay back their loans and medicare is pre-paid for by the beneficiary's lifetime of work. The other federal programs are just freebies.
your chinese tax numbers are way off. you considered the entire population, rather than the adult population (or voter population). i get it, you're a writer, not a mathematician, but still...
Why is a comparison of US non- taxpayers to India or China even relevant? Why not a comparison to 2010? It was 41% in 2010......and now it 47%. It's going in the wrong direction. I am part of the 53% and I am angry. Not because I object to safety nets but because I object to the status of this economy.
And it won't change without jobs, economic growth and serious, comprehensive tax reform...one that doesn't use the tax system as mechanism for social program payments.
Okay, so vote in a Republican president, then give him a Democrat majority in Congress that actively blocks any actions the President tries to take, and after four years blame the Republican president. Republicans are sick, twisted anti-American freedom-hating scoundrels.
I do love when people complain about paying taxes. Do these people realize what we use HAS to get paid somehow?? If we stopped paying taxes, we'd get billed. And billed at a ridiculous amount-taken advantage of. I do feel those who act stupid and require the help of police/fire/ambulance should have to pay on their own, NOT by tax payers. I'm pretty sure the majority of people would NOT go fishing on a pier when the winds are gusting up to 35 MPH....it happened here
I bet you're on welfare and live off of the work of all us hard working Americans.
Have you ever been to India or China? They spend a tiny fraction per capita of what the US spends Most of the 90+% who don't pay taxes literally live in lean-to huts and receive little to no gov assistance. Poor children live on the streets in groups and wash each other in the gutters of the streets. Roads are horrible. Infrastructure is terrible (power, phones, etc). So you cannot compare them to US tax base where our poor often times have $100 sneakers and cell phones. I know I know a sweeping generalization that I'll get slammed for it.
Have YOU ever been to India or China? Or do you somehow believe that those entire countries look like the National Geographic pictures you saw once in elementary school? There is plenty of big business in those countries, there are beautiful cities, there is amazing infrastructure with more recent technology than the US has in the urban areas. The ghettos of India are no more a fair assessment of their country, than the Pine Ridge reservation is an assessment of the United States.
Fareed, your liberal bias is showing again. You imply that gas prices are lower in American than other countries because of subsidies. In fact, taxes on gasoline really explain why the price per gallon is greatly different in the USA verus wester Europe. Taxes are lower here than over there. But that doesn't fit the spin you put on your story.
Or the 47% comment. When Romney said he didn't care, he meant that he wasn't going to spend time or money campainging for the votes of the people who would not likely vote for him anyway; those that depend on Government support. Is it really shocking that the people that depend on transfer payments won't vote for the candidate that wants to shrink government? But that's not the spin that you want to put on the story.
What happened to journalistic integrity?
Fareed: The reason why we 53% are so dismayed is that 15 years ago it was more like only 20% didn't pay income taxes.
You "arguments" are BS. So of the 47%, some pay social security tax. So what? Social security is their forced savings for retirement. What gives you the right, you pompous blowhard, to think that these people shouldn't save ANY money for their retirement. How many have luxury items (you know iPhones, designer jeans, etc).
We can care for the people who cannot care for themselves. But 47%, really? C'mon, even in your addled, holier than though, plagiarizing haze, you see that we shouldn't carry all the weight.
If your leftist leaning bozos had their way, 90% would be freeloaders.
....and these are bad comparisons,....really, India and China, an up and coming, but still poor country like India and China...a communist led country, while still up and coming has a long long ways to go in terms of worker rights, etc. Should be comparing to modernized and "stable" countries like western europe (yes I know not stable, per se, but a better comparison for sure). Also...everyone who always spouts off about how much taxes we pay....they always quote the tax brackets, to which no one actually pays what bracket they are in, at least in terms of total adjusted gross income...that is what everyone should report off of, and you will see basically everyone, from businesses to individuals end up paying quite a bit less than "their" official tax bracket. For just once in history I want to hear a debate (presidential even?!?) about taxes that involves adjusted values as that is a FAR better place to make a statement as it gives you a much better idea of what the actual brackets mean to people, and how many deductions they are taking to round out their actual tax amounts.
Michael Grunwald – a tax payer – outlines how every single thing his family uses would cost more were it not for subsidies: water, electricity, food
Yes but Michael Gruwald would consume less, and for those of us who try not to consume alot, we are paying taxes so consumer-oriented people can over-consume and be gluttons. I ride a bicycle everywhere, but apparently I am help pay for half the gasoline that everyone else uses to drive around even the shortest distances while burning up the oil as fast as they can.
WSait, according to comments, GW Bush did such an absolute job at destroying the economy that at the start of his presidency only 20% didn't pay income tax, but by the end of it 41% didn't pay income tax? And then REPUBS COMPLAIN BECAUSE IT HAS GROWN 6% under Obama?
All I can say is.... Wow. I am looking for a new country to call home. This is not what I signed up for.
Try China or India like the writer suggest is the way to go. Enjoy how the non taxpayers live there. Bowl of rice a day, no running water, no toilets. Sounds fantastic. Please remember to write.
You really don't know what you're talking about. The real estate market in Mubai is very expensive. Plenty of running water and amenities if you have the money. Real estate in Hong Kong is more expensive than New York City.
Here's something ironic. The red states tend to be "takers" and the blue states "makers."
Here are the ten states that are the largest per capita contributors to the federal treasury, and the ten that are the largest per capita recipients of federal dollars (Tax Foundation, 2005):
Biggest contributors (all received less than $1.00 of federal spending for each dollar taxed):
1. NJ Blue
2. NV Purple
3. CT Blue
4. NH Purple but trending Blue
5. MN Blue
6. IL Blue
7. DE Blue
8. CA Blue
9. NY Blue
10. CO Purple
Biggest recipients (all received more than $1.00 of federal spending for each dollar taxed):
50. NM Purple
49. MS Red
48. AK Red
47. LA Red
46. WV Red
45. ND Red
44. AL Red
43. SD Red
42. KY Red
41. VA Purplish Red
You have it backwards. For every REPUBLICAN in New York City making big bucks (the 1%) there are 99 DEMOCRATS living on welfare off the taxes that person pays.
That data is from 2005! Look it up on Politifact. They indicate that as of 2008 the facts have changed dramatically. Use fresh data or don't bother.
US is heaven. Lot of opportunities and no income tax. I love this country
“US Officials Knew Libya Attack Was Terrorism Within 24 Hours, Sources Confirm” Fox News
“Some Administration Officials Were Concerned About Initial White House Push Blaming Benghazi Attack on Mob, Video” ABC News (that’s right ABC News).
“Benghazi attack followed deep cuts in State Department security budget” Washington Times
“Obama Administration Deleted State Dept. Memo From Internet After Discovering Al-Qaeda Was Behind Benghazi Attack” Gateway Pundent
“Feds Arrest Producer Of Controversial Anti-Islam Film On Probation Violation Charge” Buster
And CNN . . . . . No mention of the scandal in the Obama Administration . . . .instead, they publish another hit piece on Romney.
The taxes & user fees collected in the affluent blue states subsidize much of the infrastructure in the rural red states. The food and manufacturing in middle America sustains the crowded urban centers on the coasts. The extra uncompensated value of ordinary laborers' work generates the capital that enables the wealthy to get richer. That excess wealth provides cheap credit, allowing the working class to maintain a lifestyle beyond their actual means. And so it goes, we're all makers & takers to some extent. But the true wealth creators in the world are the teachers, farmers, plumbers, electricians, truck drivers, miners, oil & gas drillers, sewage & refuse workers, etc. Without them, civilization would collapse in about a week.
So we're going to compare our non taxpayers to China a nd India???? Tell you what, if you lived in a mud hut, and make $500 a year like the majority of Chinese, and Indians, we do NOT expect you to pay taxes. If you have a cell phone, and cable tv, like the huge majority of Americans, you can kick a little in. This article is 100% ignorant.
The nature of financial success is that few people achieve it. They are therefore outnumbered. In a democratic society, where the majority (the mediocre) outnumber the minority (the successful) the rewards of success will inevitably be taxed away to nothing.
Democrats have essentially eliminated any incentive to succeed in this country. It is no longer worth it at all to have great aspirations in America. I personally aspire to leave this country to go someplace where success is still honored.
Chris, while i agree with your sentiment, the USA is still the best place to aspire to success. We need people like yourself to stick around and prove it.
I have nothing left to prove to anyone. The govt. here has taken and taken and taken and given me nothing except sirens and the most crowded subway system in the world for my 30 minute, 2 mile commute. And I have to listen to Obama call me a "Fat Cat" ... raising a family in a 1 bedroom apartment and paying $6 for a half gallon of orange juice and 9% sales. America can F-off. I think I will look at Singapore or Switzerland.
I say you should go to Singapore Chris. Make sure you bring your $4000 per month for a 1200 SQ FT Apartment.
That is easily half the price of Manhattan! Awesome!
Chris – If your 2 mile commute is taking you 30 minutes – perhaps instead of moving, you should take up jogging.
I would love to walk, jog or ride a bike to work but we have no showers at the office. I walked to the office for a while, but a colleague once told me subtly that I smell bad, and that was that. No more walking to the office.
What's wrong with this writer? Out of all the democratic & developed countries in the world he found communist China and a 3rd world corrupt India to compare us to!! LOL
Fareed, you are such a fraud
Why not just wear your Obozo campaign button for you pic?
No one believes anything you say except for the Obozo drones on Obozo hack site CNN
Fareed didn't write this article, someone name Ravi agrawal with little knowledge wrote this. (Ravi Agrawal is a senior producer on Fareed Zakaria’s Global Public Square.) However Fareed should have checked it out before publishing.
I would like to see an article from CNN about what it costs to live and work in Manhattan (or any major city in the US), and what life is (or will be) like under Obama, making $251k for a family of 4. Taxes, schools, medical care. Having a baby WITH insurance and no complications cost my wife and I $10k out-of-pocket. Federal, state, local, real estate, sales taxes take about 60% of my income. Unlike pay in federal jobs, federal taxes are in no way adjusted for the cost of living.
Very misleading article about taxes in India- poorly researched and poorly presented. Non payment of taxes In India is not because of elite status, but because of corruption.
Everything you need to know about this article is is contained within the comments about our gasoline costing $4 per gallon, only half of Europe, and therefore that is "subsidized." Is that colossal ignorance, or bias? It's hard to tell with CNN.
For those who would buy into this for a second, because it is in print. Our gasoline is not subsidized at all. We tax it quite a bit. Europe is not twice, but it is more. Because they tax it more. Gas would be cheaper if we didn't tax it so much, and of course, if the oil companies were not so greedy, etc.
It's hard to have an informed electorate if the "teachers" are so ignorant.
While China may "tax" only 2% of their citizens, they have nationalized all of the most profitable industries, taking all of the profit for "the party". This comparison is absolutely ridiculous.
What absolutely freaking garbage.
This article lost me at the very beginning...
"Mitt Romney’s revelation that his “job is not to worry” about the “47 percent of the people” who “pay no income tax” has divided America."
Could this be more interpretively distorted to fit Ravi's narrative? I think not. Romney's statement about the 47% had to do with those who take and don't give; whose votes he does not expect to get because of that fact. He is not stating that there are Americans he does not care about.
This is pure yellow journalism. The only journalism they teach at today's universities.
You can give some of your wealth you don't want to my friend who recently founded a school in Niger. Email me and I'll send you information. JordanJimenez@me.com
To compare India's income tax to the US, the author has to ignore the fact that India gets most of its tax from a value added tax (VAT). This tax is as high as 12.5%, imagine a sales tax in the US of 12.5%. In China even if the author wishes to ignore the income from state run companies, $3700 per year is where Chinese start paying income tax at 15% not where they start paying any income tax. Wait, is that more than Romny's 13% on his millions?
all Mitt has to do is buy up, discreetly of course, wink , the Electoral College to win. the Electoral College is not obligated to side with the majority.
Comparing the US to India and China is stupid. All we have to do is go to a caste system, have the governement restrict the internet, eliminate free speech, live in squalor, put women rights back 200 years, not allow immigration except by those of the same culture, eliminate all environmental protections, etc. This is by far the clearest case of idiotic reporting i have ever read
Hi, we have a caste system in the US already. It consists of people who went to top schools at the top (or people who are direct descendents of people who went to top schools), people who went to college at all in the middle, and people who did not go to college at all at the bottom. If you do not think that going to college (or not) and/or going to a particular college has anything to do with race or social class in America, you are hopelessly deluded. Furthermore,your chances of actually finishing college are about 50% higher if you go to a school where you are actually PAYING full tuition, as opposed to going to your state school. People complain about student loans.... imagine if you take out student loans to go to a crappy state school that tells you to you sink or swim, and you are overwhelmed.
And I am not saying we should improve the loan system for college. I think the college system should be exposed for what it is, a ruthless cutthroat business that preys on young people when they are most vulnerable, and dangles their hopes and dreams in front of them in exchange for anything and everything. College is a joke. Most young people learn everything on their own. College is just a place for losers (those who can't do, teach) to work who can't do anything real, to feel important. All the most successful people dropped out when they realized they were wasting their time paying for advice from people who have never done anything real in their lives.
Comparing U.S. income taxes to China and India was somewhat interesting, but it wasn't very useful. Why not compare the U.S. to other Western democracies, say Australia, Canada, the UK, Germany and France? I live in Canada and I can assure you I pay income taxes. It would also be interesting to compare countries on what they get for their income taxes. For example, citizens of almost all other Western democracies get basic healthcare for their taxes.
Fully 20% of the Chinese governments operating budget is funded by taxes on imports.
I wonder what it'd be worth to stop all foreign aid for just one year.Just one.
I like the comment "We tend to think of income tax as a burden. Perhaps we should see it as a privilege, a luxury to have an income level that makes us eligible to pay it." Is the author saying that we should share the "luxury" of paying taxes with more or fewer people.
I am living in India. The poverty level is $2400 per year and 1/3 of the population is in poverty. That means that 62% of the population makes between $2400 and $3600 per year. Three are too many cars on the road for that to be true.
The Repubs have attemptef(in vain) to be the "dyed-in-the-wool" Christians and Pro-Military. They are about as far from both as one can be. Other than lip service in both areas, they zero out. Romney explained the 47% away and as for military- how many conservatives do you know that choose military careers. During WW2, they were less than 3%. LOL .....and Ronald Reagan was NOT among the uniformed although claiming pubicly to be otherwise. Made movies throughout the war effort- 1941-1945.
What is the point of the article? Does the author believe it is time to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs because we need a lot of those eggs right now? While I agree that taxes are a necessary burden to alleviate the great disparities that can lead to social unrest, when every issue leads to another turn in the Gordian knot of federal finances it is clear that we have a poor approach.
People pay taxes at so many levels it is disingenuous to speak of any subset; look at what the government consumes at all levels (municipal, state, and federal) and what the economy generates. Does it make sense? The economy will only grow at the rate that capitalistic incentives support; if you believe otherwise, welcome to the global economy.
Taking money out of the US economy will slow it down, yet we have agreed to do that for today's "needs". So are we to continue hoping for a magic jump in economic activity despite no changes in incentive, or are we going to recognize that many needs are just desires?
INDIA AND CHINA ASIDE, ALL I KNOW IS THAT I PAY 5% MORE OF INCOME IN FEDERAL TAXES THAT GOV. ROMNEY. AND THIS IS BEFORE HE "MANIPULATED" HIS TAX RATE SO PEOPLE WOULDN'T CRITICIZE HIM.
TAX SYSTEM IS UNFAIR.
It's not taxes I mind paying because we all should pay our fair share because we all benefit ,I do have problems with where this money is spent though.
In SA 90% of the population don't pay tax
This article is deliberately misleading. China may have a lower income tax but it also has a 17% Value Added Tax (VAT). Their tax rate is so low because the government takes (owns) the profits. Why didn't you look at some of the industrialized countries total taxes:
France: 33% corporate tax, up to 75% income tax, a 20% VAT
Canada: 31, 53, and 15
Germany: 30, 45 and 20
Greece: 25, 45 and 23
Sweden: 27, 56, 25
The point being that it's not just income tax, it's all the other taxes.
I think this is a totally ridiculous argument. There is a difference between someone paying 10 doallrs and taxes and getting 4 dollars in retrun in services and someone paying no taxes and getting 4 dollars in services...one person pays into a system he receives benefits from and the other persons benefits are paid for by others. All governement revenue,debt aside, is paid for by taxes so iin the example for gasoline if its subsidized then yes everyone pays less at the pump but those who dont pay taxes or very little taxes are truly being subsidized while those who truly pay the bulk of taxes are paying the hidden costs of gas for themselves plus those being truly subsidized. This article is very misleading and I'm saying that as a liberal. The truth is the truth call it what it is, dont mislead people with sophitries.
Spelling aside, you make some very good points. The whole situation sounds very Animal Farm-ish to me.
This article points at a good reason to educate and motivate those who don't pay taxes, but it's not a good reason to tax more those who already do....
The tax burden of Chinese is very heavy.It includes VAT,business taxes,comsume taxes,income taxes,car purchasing taxes,cars and boats taxes,city maintenance and building taxes,education taxes and so on.Transit taxes are included in cmmodity prices.
federal sales tax,,, 1%,, 2% ?
NO. Return to import duties and nothing but import duties to fund the federal government.
China and India? Yep, those are my models of how I'd like my population to live.
My Goal is to pay 10 million dollars income taxes......that means I made 100 million dollars ....and with the help of my slick lawyers and clever accountants I got to KEEP 90 million of it.....
The big problem with government taxes is it pays for things you don't agree with. Obama wants to force the Catholics to pay for birth controller, or Christians in general to fund abortions, etc. Whoever is in power gets to cram their agenda down the throats of whoever lost. Reduce the income tax and let people contribute to the charity of their choice. Sure we need some government for military, police, etc. but you could have toll roads, etc. Less government=better government.
You are living proof that ignorance should not be allowed to speak in public.
Toll roads? Really? Are you suggesting you and your neighbors are willing to pay each time you drive up and down your street to pay for its eventual maintenance needs? I didnt think so.
No one is forcing you to pay for abortions. If you have an insurance company that agrees to cover the procedure, that is your own decision. If you don't want that, find another company. There are plenty out there that will willingly cut whatever coverage you want.
"a government that Robs peter to pay paul, can always depend on the support of paul" Just look at what socialism has gotten Spain and Greece. wake up its not far off.
And look what it has gotten Denmark, Sweden and Norway. Every one of the countries with the highest standard of living is socialist.
How do we stack up to developed countries? Europe, Australia, Canada, etc.?
The big lie here is equating not paying INCOME taxes with "not paying taxes." Why do conservatives consistently lie like that?
Because 47% is the percentage of people that end up getting a NET benefit from the taxes the remaining 53% are forced to surrender. And we are talking exclusively federal income taxes.
"We tend to think of income tax as a burden. Perhaps we should see it as a privilege, a luxury to have an income level that makes us eligible to pay it."??? don't make me laugh. While you are fondling you numbers, why don't you throw into the mix the cost of living. we make more, but we pay more. a dollar does not have the same weight as a won, euro, rubie, etc... we can't afford to pay minimum wage to workers here because the CEO demands too much of a kick back, so we go to third world countries to pay even less. Who benefits? Not USA – any extra savings realized goes back into the hands of stock holders and CEO's (the 1% that doesn't have to pay the same tax rate – their reward for screwing the lower class).
I hope the GOP gets its act together before 2016 or there may not be anything left by 2020.
An unrestricted Obama will end any hope of a decent future. A nation of zombie public sector workers and public assistance freeloaders voting themselves more and more and more benefits at the expense of the middle class.
With the budget cuts continuing, there will hardly be any government employees left. Enjoy your pot hole riddled roads and your lack of affordable education. Also, have fun finding a fire department when your house catches fire, or a police officer to help you when your home is broken into.
All right, you're a Republican. You think all these things are magical and should be free FOR YOU. You just don't want to have to pay for anything. I guess that's why most committers of medicare/medicaid, and social security fraud are Republicans.
It's interesting how the right wants to blame 47% of Americans for not paying taxes. Many of those people have already paid taxes (they are retired now) all of their lives. Many are military members overseas. A great deal of them work full time jobs but can't make enough money to pay taxes. These people would LOVE to pay taxes. That would mean they are not at the poverty line. But people like Mitt want to outsource, pay less than minimum wage, give no benefits, etc. So these people can not pay taxes. Pay your employees better and you'll get more people to pay taxes you rich twits.
Gotta love how your entire post ignores the millions that don't work (by choice) but get government aid. Paying workers more will only add to the pool of money that liberals will redistribute to these people ... which in turn will further remove any incentive for the recipients to get a job that actually contributes.
I'd be interested to know how much income taxes major corporations pay since the Supreme Court ruled that they are indeed people? And what are the subsidies they enjoy?
Not everyone contributes. That's really the crux of the divide. Only ~57% of the population is employed. I've known tons of yuppie couples with a stay-at-home wife and no kids. I've even known couples completely unemployed with no kids, as well. In fact, have "facebook friend" from childhood who has never been married, lives alone, and has been on SS disability for hyper-obesity his entire adult life (was pretty lean as a kid...). Lots of people in jail, too. These people may be in the minority - I don't know the count - but there are certainly people who contribute very little or nothing to this world.
My best friend from highschool has been on mental disability since she was 21 because her boyfriend of 3 months died in a car accident. She went crazy and is still nearly 8 years later mourning a guy she barely knew. She is an alcoholic, drug addict, and basically worthless yet she collects because she's "too sad" to work. Her goal is to eventually get physical disability instead of mental so she plays us all kinds of issues trying to get the doctors to agree that she deserves physical disability. Another highschool friend wants to be a stay at home mom so is trying to fake a mental illness to get on disability.
My uncle is obese and has been on disability for decades.
My aunt just got out of jail for disability fraud after being on it for many years. Another aunt has 8 kids by different men and has never worked a day in her life between disability, welfare, and child support.
My step dad receives disability for his inured back yet he can cut firewood and go hunting, but he could no longer drive his dump truck. Funny how his disability started as soon as he married my working mother and didn't need his income anymore.
I have more people to add to the list, but you get the idea. Our of all the people I know receiving disability, none deserve it and all are on it because they don't want to work. That's the simple truth. It's a great program, and many people really do need it, but to hand it out so easily is just insulting to those to are working to fund it.
Meanwhile my husband and I have one child because that's all we can comfortable afford, and we are constantly being bashed for being "selfish" and not giving our child a sibling, of course if we had another and collected any form of welfare to fund this second child we are "suppose" to have, we would be irresponsible. Can't win for losing.
I do not understand your point from this article. Yes, things are unusual, complex and convoluted. So we should…?
I know what I would do. I would get rid of graduated tax rates. From what I gather, the weathy would pay more, the middle class would pay more and the poor would pay something. You still can give those who need it a lift, but they would have contributed
Give me a break. 53% of us should be HAPPY there are SO many of us to carry the load? How about we get rid of the IRS and the UNLAWFUL tax. I'm TIRED of paying for all the moochers. Liberals are great at spending everyone else money. And it all goes back to FLAMING LIBERAL Woodrow Wilson in 1913 who created the IRS and the corrupt Federal Reserve. Liberals are RUINING America.
If we didn't have income tax, we wouldn't have all these hordes of corrupt politicians and all the muck they've created.
I agree. It is time to repeal the 16th Amendment and force Congress OUT of our wallets.
Katie, all those things you mention don't get paid with our federal taxes ( Public schools, libraries, roads, government services, police, firefighters); but by local taxes instead. That's the most outrageous thing about it. What do you REALLY get for all your federal tax dollars?? NOT MUCH. You get a failing infrastructure (roads and all) and too many politicians. That's all you get. We could easily eliminate all the fake fluff "federal" departments created the last half century that STRANGLE us with all their muck such as Dept of Education. STATES RIGHTS.
I thought this article was about taxes, not about the election. Although the article is useless since it compares apples to oranges, no mention of services rendered for taxes paid, instead I guess we should all be happy to pay taxes, no matter what
EXCLUSIVE: United Nations considers 'tapping' wealthy nations — the U.S. in particular — through a host of global taxes, says 'the time has come' to redistribute wealth.
Gee I wonder where Obama got his redistribution ideas???? Don't you people see what a mess Europe is in (yes even worse than ours), they have turned their lives over to the government and it is a complete mess over there. No thanks we have pulled ourselves up more than once by the bootstraps and it is time to do it again – ignore the UN, in fact kick their fannies out of here and while we are kicking OUT with the Obamas, Soros, Immelts, Moores, Reids, Bidens et al they are doing nothnig to bring this country up but everything to take it down – that's all :~
Who cares what the tax is called or what type of tax it is. The point is how much of your income is taken away at the end of the day? Like the article says, "the poorest fifth of Americans pay on average about 17.4 percent of their incomes on these taxes. A majority of Americans end up paying 25 to 30 percent of their income. Mitt Romney and his ilk want to raise that percentage on poor people? Really? You're going to make people who are poor pay more than the average 17.4%. I hope you do realize the huge point that the 82.6% left for them isnt the same amount of money as 82.6% for wealthy Americans. People can't pay equal percentages, the rich have to pay a larger percentage because they can afford to.
Owe so someone wrote 17.4% on the internet so it must be true! Is this also counting the $2,000 they pay in income tax but get back $7,000? No one should get back more than they pay in and especially those who come into this country illegally!!!! When is America going to hold there politicians accountable!
You are a Marxist. And you sir do NOT deserve to live in the US.
Many of us "lower income" folk still pay in a decent percentage and get back very little. Last year, I paid in almost $6,200 on about $32,000 of income. I was only to receive about $700 back. However, I got a credit for paying for college last year, which allowed me to get about $2,300 back. My total paid was still $3900, or still well over 10% of my income. That doesn't include any of the other taxes I paid. Loosing over $4000, nearly $6000 when other taxes are included, is a HUGE amount for someone making only $32,000.
Oh, and Romney's/Ryan's plan wants to do away with the education tax credit that has helped millions of Americans advance themselves, earn more money, and in turn, pay more taxes. But I guess we have to do our part to allow companies like GE to pay no taxes.
"Look around the world and you’ll see that income tax payers are part of an elite club."
So what?
I can't compare America to the rest of the world. I live here. Here we pay so much income tax and medicare and social security, sales taxes, property taxes, incidental taxes tacked on to everything from phone services to medical bills to car repairs– you name it. The latest tax in many places is a "view tax" – if the tax assessor thinks your house or apartment, no matter how humble, has a "nice view" that gets taxed to triple or quadruple your yearly property taxes to nearly drive you out of your home. It's to the point that even people with "modest incomes" see in reality nearly 70% of their incomes gone to taxes they can't reduce nor opt out of, for services not delivered that improve the family's daily bottom line of existence.
I totally disagree with this article's premise that we in America should just "suck it up" and keep on paying and shut up about it. My costs to live are American costs because I live in America. I can't live on $1-$2 like the bulk of people in third world countries because America isn't a third world country. Yet. Maybe that's the problem - we've become third world and like everything else we're getting lied to by the politicians to pretend we're still not.
And we subsidize much of the third world too. That is the biggest problem with US tax policy. All that money MUST stay in the US and stop breeding nations that will attack our interests.
What most all US voters are missing, is that you will be voting for Mitt or Obama because there are no better choices to choose from. Am I wrong?
Mitt will try to run the show using his skills(not many) and Obama will do the same with his skills( not many as well)- so Pick your Poison yoand the wayyou wish to end your favored ways of life with.
If we are all going to Disneyland- you can drive your Toyota, Ford, BMW, your Chevy- whatever you like- and you can choose your own path that to get there, however you believe you should get there.
But once your there- your going to have to pay to get in side, for the gas to get there, your food you eat to survive, along side your hotel bill to put shelter over your head. No One is going to have to pay it for you, except maybe if you charge it and maybe file for Bankruptcy to try to get out of it- then its Debt/ Deficit your are creating to enslaving your own future to and your own children's chance of being self supportive and sucessful.
You cant teach Responsibility if your Teachers are not Responsible themselves.
But there is hope for us all. It just has to come from each an every one of us to choose better leaders from the top down and not relay on their fast talk and false promises to to feed us teh golden carrot to keep working for them and not ourselves and our fellow citizen. Please do not think politics is not your problem- be cause it will become your problem at one point or another ans you wil wake up one day asking yourself how in the Hell did our country get this way and why do I work hard with nothing to show from it.
Damn- we all should be screaming- THIS IS SPARTA!! and not voting for a political party who is so disconnected from YOU and YOUR lifelong goals that you instinctfuly inject false hope into them thinking they are goig to fix something that they cannot fix- because they are NOT YOU and have their own agenda. You can profile Reps and Dems apart, but in the end they both are used as excuses as to why you voted they way you did- and if they go rouge on their own voters, we all turn around and point the finger at their administration and not themselves for not making better choices in the first palce.
- This is exactly how we all got here into this situation in the first place- including myself.
Now the united nations want to raise our taxes,that's right,the united nations wants you and me to pay them higher taxes. eff u united nations,who do you think we are ? I dont want ANY of my money going to the U.N.,let alone going out of our country,what a load of hog wash these elitist throw at us.
But too much of a good thing is not good.
"n the U.S. for example, a gallon of gasoline costs nearly $4. But you would pay twice as much in most of Europe. Even the Indians and Chinese pay more. Doesn’t everyone benefit from subsidies?"
And you were doing SO WELL up to this. Not taxing petrol as much as the Europeans do is NOT NOT NOT subsidizing gasoline. Euros tax the hell out of gas so that only their middle class and wealthy can afford to drive. It's the single most regressive tax, other than sales tax on food. People are easier to control when they are reliant on the government for transportation.
Do you guys really understand how economy works? America is world's biggest economy but do you think this economy is created by goverment..nah..its created by people who had ideas for new business. Economy is based on industries and jobs out of these industries. just a simple question how many ppl are employed by government?
so you have an idea to start a new business but you need money to start that business,,,who is going to give you that money..goverment..really? no..so you need money from investors who are ready to risk their money into your business. So if you are that investor who has money..will you provide money to other people without any benefits..no one will do that ever..so what countries do is offer tax benefits to their investment so that people will not stack their money in banks but give to other people as investment..and with this money people can start their business..new business new jobs..and this cycle goes on..this is how economy grows. IF everybody keeps their money in banks as savings..there will be no growth..because money stinks if it is kept at same place for long time...it has to recycled..reinvested..spent..this is how money grows..so if someone has paid lower taxes because they have made investments..that means they helped money to go to work and create more jobs..so you have to encourage pople to invest money by more tax benefits..so think again..what do you want.....
I , like most other Americans , have no money left to "stink " in a savings account because the price of gas has sucked up all the take home pay we get.My money doesnt sit in my 401K because the corporations greedy practices destroyed their values. Thank God my company cant touch my pension because the fund was set up out of control of the company thieves , I feel terrible for folks without a defined pension plan but they have those greedy little corporate business men to blame for that.
And both Bush and Obama bailed out many of those evil corporations. You may be more aligned with Ron Paul.
So we should try to be more like India and China...as if that is a "step forward". Along with freedom comes responsibility! Comparing the tax systems of third world and developing countries to a fairly new and free country with high education and opportunity available to ALL is not a good comparison. As a free country (at least for now), we are better off incentivizing citizens to be responsible and carry their fair share. If we expect "nothing" of 1/2 our citizens....that is exactly what we will get. Responsibility is a good thing.
Tracee who posted earlier about thanking Obama for having to live on a budget! Shame on you, you should have been on a budget long ago! Not having a budget impacts you financially, racks up credit card debt, and you become a slave to the lender!!! your goal should be to have a balanced budget, have zero debt and pay cash for those items you want, no credit cards and invest........the mind set in the united states on finances needs to change!!!
No liberal tilt in this article. I love it when writers compare the USA to other countries and how they always select the country that best supports their argument. India and China? That's some baseline. Tell me about Singapore and Hong Kong. What are the taxes in Lichtenstein?
Furthermore, this writer does not talk about tax RATES.
Excellent article. Nobody in this country can complain about taxes, they are lower than they have ever been in my lifetime. We have young men giving their LIVES for their country and we have men like Mitt Romney complaining about paying a 13% and less tax rate. This is obscene.
Taxes lower than ever ? where do you live ? By the time I get my check,33% is taken right off the top,then when I spend my check I pay additional state and local taxes with the money I already paid taxes on,then after I get robbed at the gas station,if I'm lucky enough to have anything left,I have to save it for out of sight property taxes.So in reality,after all is said and done,WE PAY PROBABLY AROUND 60% OF OUR MONEY INTO TAXES, so where do you get the idea that our taxes are the lowest they've been ? I think you need a dose of reality when calculating our REAL TAX RATES.
Its about JOBS not TAXES. The debate over taxes is a sideshow that distracts from the real problem of fewer well-paying jobs in this country and the stagnation of wages for many of those who are employed. Corporations have used the political system to shelter themselves and their highest managers from taxes and regulations. One reason government exists is so that the big guys don't take advantage of the little guys and to ensure the playing field is level and not manipulated. Corporations – now defined as "people" – are now the bullies on the block. Microsoft IS a monopoly, we also have oligopolies in telecommunications, the oil industry and banking. Banks, through new access to the securities markets, were a big reason we have the last crash. Bring back Teddy Roosevelt and the Trust Busters and re-enact the Glass-Steagall Act.
the interesting part on China and India is ... the people really do not have a voice so why should they have to pay tax - by the way you land can be taken without cause so why should you have to pay tax... so really these countries are bad examples and a very bad way to report a news. a good reporter should be willing to report news from both sides. Very bad reporting unless you want to just support a political agenda.
the way i see it – for what its worth – is not what percent pays tax & what percent does not that matters. i am repulsed by the progressive left's obsessive whining that the rich are not paying their "fair share." what is this "fair share" & who decided that one person's "fair share" is $2 million while for millions more the "fair share" is zero. this is the basis of the class war campaign mounted by obama & his acolytes. no matter how much the rich pay now or in the future, the left will never be satisfied that the rich are paying that ever moving target called their "fair share." BTW, my "fair share" for the last few years has been zero.
The rich pay more because they earn more,the poor pay less because the earn less,it's a very simple equation AND quite fair,however,the differences are in the tax deductions. The wealthy have lawyers to figure out their deductions and loopholes for them while most poor are on their own in that area. Notice nobody talks about a flat tax anymore,you know,the one where the only taxes paid by anyone are on anything purchased ,studies on this have been done and all results have been positive for that type os system.
Wrong. The poor should pay less, much less, but they should pay something so that they have skin in the game. When you tell 50% of the population they owe no Federal taxes, they will vote for the politican that promises them the most, since it is not their money. Inseatd of making $20,000 year with no taxes, they should make $25,000 a year with a 20% tax burden. The amounthtye have to spend is the same, but they will care when they see the government plssing of half a billion on a risky solar panel investment.
Has it occured to anyone yet, that Romney looks like Woody from Toy Story?
Has anyone else noticed that the article was comparing what percent of people pay income tax in the U.S. to 2 countries that when in the last 10 years or so been considered "developing" country. I would like to see how the U.S. compared to countries that are considered developed. I would guess it would come out that the U.S. percent is a lot less than those but that is only an assumption.
There is somewhat confusion between the notion of "paying taxes" vs. "filing tax return". Yes, more that 90% of people in China do not have to file a tax return at the end of the year, but it does not mean that they do not pay taxes. It just happens automatically every month: a taxes are subtracted automatically from paycheck, that is it. The principal difference from the US is that the Tax Laws are very simple (say take your monthly income, subtract state mandated minimum wage from it, pay 14% of what is left. That is it!), so the re is no need for an adjustment at the end of the year for most people, hence there is no need to file a tax return. This is not only China or India. It works like that in many countries.
Regardless whether or not they owe or pay any taxes, 100.0% Americans have to file a tax return by April 15. Despite the fact that the Instructions say that you do not have to file if you made less than personal exemption + standard deduction during the year, however, if you ever try to follow this rule and do not file because your income was less than that, and during the next year you made more and file a return, then expect a letter from IRS saying "We did not receive you tax return for the previous, please furnish it by ..." and set a deadline. Filing it is a formality, but you have to file. Note that IRS always refers itself as "We", sounds almost like "We, Nicholas II, command you..."
But back to the substance:
Mitt Romney LITERALLY said that "he does not care about 47% of Americans who do not pay taxes..."
HOW EXACTLY THE 47% DEFINED?
Did he mean 47% of people or 47% of tax returns filled to IRS for a given year?
Implying that many tax returns cover more than just one person, say an American family files a single tax return which covers both husband, wife, and children, if any.
If he means 47% of PEOPLE, then it probably includes both unmarried or married Americans, who file single or joint returns, and there returns may also include children, elderly, or nonworking spouses.
Does Mitt Romney consider children as "free-loaners" included into 47%?
Or non-working spouses?
Does he mean that he does not care about elderly who do not pay taxes because there is no much income?
From 1942 thru 1962 the highest marginal tax rate was between 86 and 91 percent on all income above 400k
this period saw the largest expansion in the middleclass, full employment, suburbs. the rich did not leave and got richer.
Apples and oranges. There were huge loopholes and tax breaks back then that have long been removed. A ridiculously uninformed comparison.
Tired lib talking points. 1960 $400K is worth what in today's dollars? And hey, bucko, back then we didn't have 47% not paying income taxes. Why is that absent from your argument? Tsk, tsk.
And in America, our taxi drivers use a toilet when they have to relieve themselves.
What's the rate for the Swedes or Icelandic or Finns? If we're emulating anyone else in the world, I want it to be them.
"If only America looked at the rest of the world."
Exactly Romney's other point. We don't want to be like the rest of the world. Not interested in 90% of the population living in grinding poverty, or a tax rate of 75% on your richest who are usually your investors, or anemic sub 2% growth coupled with high unemployment. Sorry, not interested in that vision for America.
Mel, all the other civilized countries have lower poverty rates than we do. Better education. Longer life expectancy. Better health care. Maybe you should go visit some of the nice countries out there before flapping your jowls.
I guess that is why we see droves and droves of Americans leaving this country for the teeming shores of Europe.
The ONE good thing about this "GREAT REPUBLICAN RECESSION" is that millions of CONSERVATIVES lost their jobs, their health insurance, and often their homes due to illness, thus learning first hand how "wonderful" our health care system really is. More than half of all PERSONAL BANKRUPTCIES in America are due to overwhelming MEDICAL DEBT. In contrast, in CANADA, people don't lose their homes when they get sick. And don't give me any of those HATE-RADIO lies that Canadians are dying like flies because they can't get timely treatment, because Canadians LIVE TWO YEARS LONGER THAN AMERICANS.
And one good thing about this "GREAT DEMOCRATIC RECOVERY" is that millions of Democrats found out that Obama couldn't magically change all that with a wave of his magic hand.
In 1950 the total tax burden was approximately 35% of GDP, in 2010 it was 35% of GDP.
We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem.
To win, Obama needs only ONE thing... an ignorant voter.
Really Patrick? Are you suggesting that those that voted for Bush are now voting for Obama? I don't think so. Speaking of ignorant, welcome to the Theocracy Empire of America (TEA) Party. They just voted against another jobs bill for veterans that they co-sponsored. Too busy worrying about God, Guns, Gays and Gynecology! Don't probe me bro'!
I don't care about India,China or the rest of the world.
If they have the chance they all come to America.
Yeah, maybe that's why they are called the "third world?"
A $1 trillion deficit means the average household is getting $10,000 more in federal benefits than it is paying for. There are about 100 million households in America.
Not to worry. It isn't as if the USA was a free country any more. No matter who wins, things will only become worse. Did BHO even try to get the "Patriot" Act repealed? HAs he ended the counter-productive wars? Has anything really changed from the Bush debacle?
Even his health care plan is only Romneycare. Did they even look at successful plans from other countries? Nope, the Rethugnicans and the Democraps are working together to turn the USA into a corporate-run totalitarian dictatorship.
Other Western European countries pay more taxes than our average of 35% overall, however, as we never de-militarized after WWII (and have continued to grow the military-industrial complex exponentially) we don't have enough for social programs that allow for a stable, secure, educated citizenry.
I'm not sure this article was intended to be taken seriously. The author's logic includes that because the price of gas is $4 in the U.S. and double that in Europe, that we are benefiting from subsidized gas. Errr, Europe places a significantly higher tax burden on tax. Unless you're the author, I don't think you'd argue that because taxes could be higher, that that somehow is a subsidy..
Also, the comparing the U.S. % of taxpayers to that of China, India and "Asia, Africa, and South America" seems driven by needing to make a point, regardless of the facts. Else why use developing countries instead of more economically similar countries (Australia, Germany, England, etc.), unless, of course, those other countries are more in align with the U.S. If the author could make the same point by using more comparable countries, he might have a chance of being persuasive. Or alternatively, perhaps spend a few words exploring why there might logically be such a significant difference between countries instead of concluding we're fortunate because we could be more like China, India, etc.
I agree. It's like a C- high school paper. What's it doing here?
Ravi's a freshman journalism student, right? Milton Friedman: For our economy to be successful, we need a broad taxation base. Period. Everyone pays something. (Income tax. Enough blah blahing about "but, he they do pay sales tax, payroll tax, etc.") And with the hole we've dug, everyone will have to pay more: the poor, the middle class, and the rich. No other way. And it obvious why we keep electing politicians who do nothing to get us out of trouble. We are the problem because we would reject the politician who would propose the only solution we have.
"A majority of Americans end up paying 25 to 30 percent of their income – more than Mitt Romney likely does, as Klein points out." What about Obama? Obama is rich an his tax rate is 19%.
If people are paying 25 to 30% is because they are fools. There are plenty of deductions that people can use to lower the rate to below Romney's.
Maybe you should write and article about that instead spreading unbalanced views.
Simple solution. Flat tax, graduated, everyone pays. No deductions, all income treated the same. And since we have people who can estimate the total tax revenue that would generate, we only let Congress spend what's projected to be collected. For the mess we're in, it's the only solution. But most Americans want to pay less and get more. Ah, there's the problem!
Libs can't handle the truth. Romney is 100% correct on the 47%. It's a huge problem, a bigger problem than getting the "evil rich" to pay their "fair share." Tell you what, if we get the 47% to pay, then we'll get those evil people to pay more too. Deal?
We want everyone to pay their fair share of taxes. You certainly can't expect the bottom 90% of the population to pay 90% of the taxes, if they don't control 90% of the money. If you control 75% of the money, you should pay 75% of the taxes. I certainly don't expect someone who makes $10k a year to pay the same percentage or amount in taxes that I do. Someone who makes million shouldn't expect me to pay the same rate as them.
Why is that your people want select parts of the population to not pay their fair share, but get billions in subsidies in federal benefits?
Wow. That was one of the most factual and well presented articles I've ever read on CNN. Good job!
Poor analysis. I could care less what the rest of the world pays. You cannot compare the U.S. economy to India. India is light years behind the U.S. The maority of their country is still in the stone ages. China? It is a COMMUNIST country. Taxes technically are limited or non-existent as the STATE runs the country, pays wages, plans production, etc.
Libtard logic.
Vote for me and you have: free tuition, free health care, free housing, and much more.
How do we pay for it? print out more money. get a bailout from IMF (we know how to do that). Other people will pay for me. Otherwise I will not spend money on local business and the economy go down.
Anyway that is the problem of next president. I did my time get elected and get my 400K retirement for life and that you cannot take it from me.
Vote for me and everything is free.
Would SOMEBODY please take this article and shove it in Mitt's face?
Many years ago, I worked minimum wage (it was $1.85 per hour at the time). I still paid income tax on it. Not very much, but something. Sure, it was tough to get by, but we managed. I think what a lot of taxpayers are upset with now is the growth in those that don't pay any income tax in spite of having an income, and especially with those that get more back than they paid in. Romney is being vilified for telling the truth.
The problem is that many of those people have paid their dues, including disabled vets and seniors. They paid into these programs for decades or nearly gave their lives serving our country. He also failed to mention that a equal percentage of those people are supporters of his, and not Obamas. You would be amazed how many conservative, white, Christian, Republican people take advantage and even defraud programs like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and food stamps.
He also failed to mention that many of those people that pay no income tax are millionaires who take advantages of loopholes, and companies like GE, GM, and Ford who Romney also considers people.
I was addressing taxes, not social programs.
Most Americans need to get a grip. When I lived in the US I used complain too...and I wanted more from the Government... but put it in perspective with 1st world countries. I'm an IT profiessional and therefore in a reasonable income range. In the UK I paid a 40% marginal rate and 17.5% VAT (Sales Tax). When I lived in Sweden I paid 56% marginal rate on income and the VAT there was 25%. I've lived in Australia now for a few years and pay a marginal income tax rate of 48%, I am hit with a Carbon Tax (AU$27/ton of carbon). BTW.. there is no deduction for interest, for alimony, or most of the other adjustments Americans have. I would give my left eyetooth to pay the low tax rates in the US... even when you combine Federal and state. Now... TRUE.. most European countries give far more benefit to the populace as a whole as a result of taxes. Look at the UK NHS (Free GP services), Swedish Public Health (0 health Insurance companies), Australian Medicare (Subsided GP and Acute care for all citizens).
However.... look at the US soveriegn debt... the US probably needs to tax MORE not less and to cut spending to try and return to fiscal responsibility. In my mind, and I am a moderate conservative, both parties are wrong here and Tea Party types are on the lunatic fringe and truly do not represent the majority of Americans.
theres plenty of tax revenue, the gov is too big and waste what it gets
The government is too big, and that's part of the problem. Both parties want to make it BIGGER. We can't afford to keep giving away billions of dollars in benefits every year to shore up votes. We can't afford to keep spending more money on our military than the next 10 countries combined. We can't afford record low federal income tax rates with so many loopholes and deductions that millions don't pay any taxes at all, and companies like GE, GM, Ford and others either pay no taxes or actually get money back from the government. We can't afford to have people get paid more than what they pay in, regardless of their income level.
Even Reagan was a fiscal realist, and probably the last one the GOP had. He had to scale back his initial tax cuts in the early 80's because the deficit started to balloon out of control. The Republicans today just want to hand out tax cut after tax cut after tax cut but offer nothing in the way of spending cuts to offset it. Passing nearly a trillion dollars in tax cuts, but only cutting the budget by a few billion is not good enough.
It's no coincidence that our budget deficit got out of control after several rounds of Bush tax cuts, long term wars, and huge GOP sponsored government handouts like Medicare part D.
Both parties need to grow up and take some responsibility for the mess they have created.
The high tax that europeans pay is mostly local and regional tax. The tax system in US and Europe are the just the opposite of each other. Basically in US you more tax to federal than to state. The federal government get most of the money and decides where in other parts of US gets to spend it.
In Europe the tax goes most to the local and regional government and very little to the federal government. That means that high taxes you paid to local region gets spend in that local region which means you get most in return because you live in that region.
In US you dont really get more in return. Someone else gets more in return because most money goes to federal govt and they decided to spend your tax money in another state instead of your local region.
Do you get people? Its ok to pay high taxes as long as it goes to your local region where you live therefore you get the most benefit. Its not ok to pay high taxes to federal govt and they decides to spend your taxes to another local region or state.
How sad that those of us in the top 10 % of income pay 70 % of all the income tax in the US. That is a fact.
How sad that we have a Muslim raised Kenyan heritaged colored running our once proud nation.
How sad that he has spent more than all previous presidents combined so far and is spending more and has not presented a budget in 3 years.
Its called liberalism running amok.
I think it's time to do away with our complicated income tax. How about a very simple, very low income tax that is flat across the board? Then raise the rest through a national sales tax. (Either tax alone would likely not be enough.) This way people are charged taxes based on how much they spend, instead of how much they earn.
There are generations of people who think someone owes them something, the only thing they will not take is a job. You can buy their vote with just a promise and then never deliver. Seniors have earned their SS and medical by paying in to the system for all the years of their life. There is a saying that if you don't put anything in the pot you have to wash it but some want all the benefits but none of the work that has made this country great. I know it is not nice to be on the bottom of the pile but please give me a break, you deserve to be there, The rich liberals sell the opposite for votes but really don't care, they know the ignorant will believe them. The Democrats started with the rich land owners in the South that had thousands of slaves and they would foster any movement that would return them to that kind of power. They take the mask off and they are just Fascists and want a return to the Feudal system. Obama is just a puppet for them and has groveled to their tune, so now he gets to play president. He has no policy on anything except to bring this country down to the level of his home, Kenya.
As a tax payer I'm supposed to be happy carrying the freeloading 47% or wait feel sorry for them. I'm supposed great my tax dollars keeps my gas price low. You know the 47% pay more for a gallon of bottled water then gasoline. Ravi your an idiot, what a load of crap to try to make the 53% feel good about carrying the 47% and the 47% are makers, makers of what?.....Tax payer and government dependency thanks.
Ravi – if you're writing an article, at least spend some time researching "relevant" data and then use it as a premise to make your argument. Why would you even compare the US economy with economies of 2 developing nations (at best)? A better comparison on % of tax-paying population is with developed European nations. For people who are reading this without any political bias, your article loses cred before the first paragraph is over. Poor work.
"Look what other countries are doing!" is a schoolyard argument. The grown up argument is that our system of government is increasing in complexity which is common to virtually all civilizations when they collapse. For example, healthy and long lived citizens are conscientious and involved in their community. By guaranteeing us health care coverage, the government added to the incentives for individuals to make poor health choices. By claiming the tax base is the primary means to reduce income inequality, the President reduces the incentive for individuals to contribute to charity. We as a people are less conscientious and less connected because of an excessively complex political system.
The Tea Party won't comprehend the material in this article. They aren't smart enough to grasp simple economic concepts.
So instead of the 53% complaining that 47% should pay taxes, we should be arguing that less people should pay taxes? This articles suggests we want to be like India or China. We don't. We were founded as a nation run by the people and for the people. We don't want the government to dictate our lives and decisions to us. We want it to be our own. We don't want to government to hang on to own money and dole it out to everyone as they see fit. We want to control ourselves. That's what our founding fathers fought for and that's what we shouldn't hang on to today. We don't want to be China.
Romney was not asking for higher taxes but for a fairer tax system something that Democrats should have done the first two years of Obama term.
I am appalled to see that Mr. Fareed Zakaria would allow this type of "consoling" editorial to be placed under his signature. The USA Taxpayer cannot ever be compared to India, China or for that mater, even, European taxpayers. The underpinning of the "American" Society are absolutely different then the given comparisons. The USA has built its economy and society, precisely, because its own view and definition of its tax system. It may have lapse to the side of over doing it but it does not make it wrong nor should be a ground for an argument of failing,(or short falling) systems around the World. I admire Mr. Fareed Zakaria but this editorial is not thought journalism, it is a looser voice!
Romney would have this election in the bag if the horrible thoughts of Bush Jr the war and worst president in modern times was not on a lot of voters minds ie will Romney be another Bush Jr in the White house?
The author cited 2 other countries, China and India whose pay low income taxes. Are 2 countries enough to call "the rest of the world"? What about other European coutries? Bad journalism and full of liberal bias from the author!
The thing is about the 47% comment one has to look at the setting the comment was made. It was a group of donors and he was pointing out the 47% of the people will not vote for him and in the context of the election he does not care about them. Nor would I. Why would he waste his efforts on people who just will not vote for him.. (see the obama Phone person). This is nothing more or less than when Pres O wrote off the white working class vote. several monthsa ago but most people didnt hear about that
The article is misleading. China has a 17.5% vat on EVERYONE. India has a payroll tax on everyone who works. In both cases the USA has a higher corporate tax rate.
And let's face it, do we want to be India or China.
Why are you comparing the US to second or third world countries rather than other fully developed countries? Apples and oranges. Perhaps in your mind third world status is the US's fate, but that is not the case with the majority of Americans. Elect Romney. Stop the decline.
You're seriously comparing the US to "communist China" in regards to tax rates? Seriously?
And you're leaving out a huge chunk of tax dollars at work, concentrating on specific programs, so that you can further make some kind of point?
Yes, Romney exaggerated. But the answer is not to compare a capitalist democracy to a communist dictatorship, and then to slice huge swaths of government spending out of your equation in order to try to say he exaggerated. You're as ridiculous as he.
The question is not do I vote Republican or Democrat. The question is why in the world would I vote for either? Year after year, decade after decade of the same failed policies, the same stale rhetoric! Nothing of substance will change.
Remember, Democrats tax and spend, Republicans just spend.
$9 a gallon of gas in Europe is $9 dollars because there is a $4 a gallon tax on petrol.
China and India on a regular basis have hundreds of thousands of people starve to death every year, much less receive free medical care, transportation subsidies, housing subsidies, free schooling, etc, etc.
The point of the 53% is, enough is enough already. We don't owe you slackers any more. Get a job already.
The only poll that matters is on election day. The media and mindless blogs are painting a negative picture that the conservative voter will not fall for, games are over, now we will show you presidential leadership. Mitt 2012
2009 to date:
Coffee up 44%
Fuel Oil up 43%
Gasoline Unleaded up 41%
Gasoline (all types) up 40%
Apples up 23.5%
Ground Beef up 21%
Milk up 16.6%
Eggs up 15.4%
Chicken up 11%
Orange Juice, up 5.4%
Oranges 4.9%
White Bread 2.3%
It is really hard to believe how rapidly federal welfare programs have grown. For example, the number of Americans on food stamps has grown from about 17 million in 2000 to 31.9 million when Barack Obama took office to 46.4 million today. The federal government spent a staggering 71.8 billion dollars on the food stamp program in 2011. You really want four more years? Really
yeah...count the corporate welfare programs on that too, corporations on food stamps that are still taking our jobs to other countries!!! The inflation is a second effect from printing money to keep the economy running and people buying houses and cars. Is a bad medicine but if it wasn't for that we could have right now 50% unemployment. Recessions are the wrong time to cut down on the money supply. Right now i still have a job and i still buy cars and high ticket items because the place i work was able to refinance their debt!!! No money, no jobs dude!!!
yeah...the rest of the world don't pay taxes but the following is true!!!
1. They don't have a burden of a military that take 700 Billions from those taxes!!!
2. The Eurozone is broke even though their military expenses are low compared to ours
3. In India where only 1.7% pays taxes those people live below the level of poverty in slums.
4. Our standard of living because of those taxes is 100$ better than any country of this size in the planet considering what we spend in defense and health care.
5. The closest country(China) military budget is a mere 107 Billions vs almost a trillion on ours if you consider VA and Tricare in the equation.
As you can see we pay more taxes but if it wasn't because those two 10 years wars that we got sucked into and the contraction of the global economy, we could be doing much better!!!
If I had a penny for every $10,000 a rich man makes that wasn't taxed I would be richer than the richest person in the world.
And just where do you get your facts showing the rich aren't taxed? It makes as much sense as your math. If you had a penny for every $10,000 rich men didn't pay in tax, you would not be richer than the richest person in the world because they would still be $9,999.99 richer for each penny you would have. Moron! Goes right in line with your "get something for nothing" mentality. Why don't you work for your own riches instead of wanting to take what someone else worked for and earned! I feel dumber for having to explain yourself to you.
I meant rich men sorry.
Sorry doesn't begin to describe your "strained" thoughts on this subject!
You are an idiot. state controlled economies get their cut out f the companies bottom line- Soviet style. Europe uses a value added tax- consumer based tax. We don't have any of the above- we want our rich to pay all. It did not work under Juan Perron in Argentina and it won't work here.
Why on earth would we want to be like the rest of the world? Only under Obama's "sorry about being America" philosophy does the hogwash in the article make any sense.
1.) "The American 53 percent should be happy there are so many shoulders to carry the load. "
I thought we always required all to share.
2) "We tend to think of income tax as a burden. Perhaps we should see it as a privilege."
What? Yeah, right. How about making 47 percent enjoy this privilege?
Here is a novel idea based on an old one.
OLD "No taxation without representation."
NEW "No representation without taxation."
Probably the least intelligent article trying to make a case for Obama and his "spread the wealth" policies I've read to date.
Compare spending vs GDP.
He makes it sound like in India they can get Medicaid, WIC, welfare, and all that with only 2.8% paying taxes. Hello, what percent of those people don't have flush toilets or even electricity? Same goes for China.
"The fact is that Romney’s comments suggest a number of misconceptions that are stoking resentment and contributing to the creation of a class fault-line across America." Unbelievable. When a democrat does it no one in the main stream media seems to care but when a republican does it, its major news. I wonder where these people were when Obama ran around the country for the past year doing exactly what they describe Romney is doing....
"The American 53 percent should be happy there are so many shoulders to carry the load."
Yeah, no. Because that 53 number shouldn't be that low. It should be much higher. Reason, this is the land of opportunity. That 53 number is only 53 due to a lot of people being straight up lazy. I know at least 15 people that are happy to live off welfare; fyi they are in their 20's. I ask them why they don't get a job, the general answer is why should I? They make a decent living and don't have to work. Hunting and fishing all day, come home to cable tv, internet, etc... I don't really blame them. Shouldn't be like that though.
So now we are compared to China and India. We are a generation that has given away a way of life listening to idiots like this.
What a ridiculous manipulation of statistics. Basically the writer counts children in india and china who aren't paying taxes and compares it to the percentage of adults in the US who pay taxes. You cannot compare households in a fully developed country to individuals in a partially developed country. PURE LIES AND DECEIT!
It is ridiculous to compare US tax with India & China. India is a messy country. No one can really assess the taxabiity of each citizen. Also there is a parallel economy running a non monetized group wich is very high compared with the tax payers.
Ravi (Hank) Agrawal:
This is an official warning that you exceeded your "personal time" at the call center.
I do not think that Obama is great. But, just because someone runs on GOP platform does not imply that they support Christian values. Dont forgetthat Romney is a Mormon. As a Christian, we need to evaluate people on their values. Tomorrow, some Moslem might run on the GOP ticket on the power of their oil money. Does it mean we need to vote for them just because they are republicans? The Romney's are no better than the border crossing immigrants. At least these poor folks do it to feed their family and children. The Romney's did it so they can continue with their immoral activities like child marriage and polygamy.
We should definitely compare ourselves to China, India and Africa. Incredible. Are we now a developing country?
The parties use us as votes. Corporations get the benefits. The money issues are not rooted in social works programs (which need to exist, like it or not) or the wars in the middle east (though that certainly didn't help). Fiat money, outsourcing, and disappearance of political moderates are some of the big contributors.
We are beyond fixing at this point. There is nothing that will help. We have to bottom out. Voting for either candidate will keep that process moving just fine. It isn't until we are forced to restructure our economy and political system that things will change. Election rhetoric is serving as an excellent distraction from the fact that we allow our government to do almost whatever it wants. I'm not voting for either party. Somehow, it makes me sleep better at night.
This opinion piece is utter trash, simply because at the outset it takes Romney's comments out of context. He was asked about his strategy to win the election, and said that the position to lower taxes means nothing to the 47% who don't pay any, so he can't worry about them – as in their VOTES.
Taxes are irrelevant because any shortfall not covered by taxes has to be funded with borrowed money – and repaid later. So, it's tax now vs tax later and so the real issue is SPENDING. Giving people handouts feeds them today but does nothing for tomorrow. Better to teach them to be self-sufficient than to coddle dependency. Of course, politicians WANT dependency so people vote for them to continue it. Government is a cancer that must be shrunk like a tumor.
Mitt Romney's GOP Plan : Don't want to pay taxes. Don't like Govt. wait except mine . Don't think women should have the right to choose. The best place for getting education is your local Church. America would have the most powerful military so we can fight all others at the same time. Don't care for your healthcare – I have enough money to pay for myself and my family and you would have to do too. I don't like you 47% Americans 'coz you take and don't give me anything. Don't know why we need a foreign policy – there should be only 3 or 4 countries in this world anyway. Don't need immigrants. Don't want to waste money on environment -there is nothing wrong if things heat up or cool down, that's how its always been. Other than this there is very little I know or care. I promise to stay out of your lives and mind my own business. Trust me and vote. I'll make a great President and bring back jobs and get this economy back by implementing my above plan. God Bless!
America needs a tax system like us in Australia. Where the likes of Romney and a lot of your other million/billionaires with they're overseas businesses would have to pay the correct amount of tax.
Sloppy, and many times false journalism......happens all too frequently,
there is no such thing as a medicaid tax , only medicare tax, there is a difference.
CNN should not publish sloppy journalism.
Can anybody explains to me why is the United States being compare against India or China?? Since when are we putting China and India as reference of where the United States standards must be. I believe, if you want to make a comparison of the United States; it should be done against the Western European countries nothing else. By the way, enough with racial and profiling comments. We all live in the same country, under the same rules and even though We all have different backgrounds and different point of views. We need to EMBRACE this country, we should all play by the same rules and pay taxes!!! Let the ones that really need help to receive help and the ones that don't really need it to stop taking advantage of the system. The system that has made this nation the GREATEST nation on earth. I know there is things that We as a country need to get fix and We need to choose the right person to do that job; however, if this country does not stick together and We don't start to straighten our little problems and take actions about them. One person won't be able to do it; so, it is time for those who avoid paying taxes to START paying taxes so they can start helping move this country forward. I say FORWARD, the only way this nation should move on.
Everyone should pay taxes. Everyone enjoys the services provided by Government and therefore needs to contribute. Only taxing the poor or middle class is quite feudal really. If you want to return to being respected on the world stage USA, start playing fair with your own people and return to the democracy you once enjoyed. Comparing your standard of living and taxes with China and India is like comparing apples with oranges.
This is such a B.S article! The countries named in this article, China, India etc... Do not use tax payer money to provide Welfare, Food stamps, Medicaid etc... In all of these countries, there are no "Social" programs. That is why even with the small numbers of people paying the taxes, the countries are not bankrupt! Look at all the countries that have all of these and many more "Social" (wealth re-distribution) programs and their taxes are high such as the Scandinavian countries with taxes as high as 50% to 60%
Comparing us to India and China? These are arguably third world countries where massive infanticide still occurs. And, stop picking on Romney or the rich – why don't you write about how much he's paid in income taxes to get to a point where he could live off his savings. I'd be willing to bet he's paid more in taxes this year than most will pay in their entire lifetimes. Oh, and don't forget to mention how hard he's had to work to be the successful. How many of you are willing to work 100-hour weeks? Not many... The wealthy aren't to blame – lazy Americans are.
I stop reading or listening to Mitt Gaffey Romney. Anything that he said in public have so far been embarrassingly shallow and unprofound.
Ravi ... you need to use a bit more sense before repeating that over 98% of Chinese don't pay income taxes. Do a bit of research/journalism.
Income taxes are taken directly out of worker's paychecks. And I think more than 24 million chinese fall into the brackets where they pay income tax.
Great choices to choose from, China a Communist country and India a sovereign socialist secular democratic republic that struggles with poverty, unemployment, terrorism that is afloat simple based on population. I like the attempt at facts but perhaps think it through next time.
Everyone talks about Federal income tax as if that were it,there is also state income tax and in addition very high taxes on gasoline,and everything I buy including the food I eat, the electricity I use, the water I wash with, and the gas I cook with and these examples are not all. I wish I knew math becasue it would be interesting to exactly how much I really pay in taxes.
You want to the US living standard to be more like India, where 97% pf the population live in abject poverty, the life expectancy is half what it is in this country and most people will never be able to travel and see any other country of the world? Or you suggest the US could be more like China, with fewer paying taxes,forced sterilization, and more people working as slaves in prison factories? Why not compare the US with Denmark where health care and college is free, people have 6 weeks paid vacation, they have job security and security into old age but the tax rate of the middle income couple we met (who were on a 3 month vacation in their sailboat) was 50%!
The writer references India and China with low percentages of those who pay taxes. Please don't confuse the US with either, simply look at the differences in standards of living, China income per capita $5,200.00/yr, India $1,800.00/yr compared to the US $48,000/yr. If you don't want a car, prefer open sewage systems, frequent power outages, unreliable emergency response, poor healthcare, no social security please feel free to change your country of residence.
oh ,,, you forgot! when your parents are 88yrs. and pooping their underwear...... clean there butts up yours SLUGS!!!
I am so with you. If you don't support America, feel free to leave it.
Why draw a comparison with India or China? Why not try the developed and democratized world, where more people make enough to be in the minimum earning bracket to file a tax return, therefore a higher percentage pay income tax, and we get a lot of services for those taxes. I'm Canadian, our household income for a family of 4 is about $60000/year. Our public education system here is such that most people are happy to send their kids to it, and don't need to worry about the cost of private schools. While our college and university educations are not entirely subsidized by the government, as in Sweden/Switzerland, costs for college and university education here are well within the reach of anyone who wishes to attend. We also don't ever have to worry about health costs, because any care you need, no matter how expensive, is covered. Paying taxes isn't a bad thing when you get tangible services in return, and not just a Blue Angels fly-over at the Fiesta Bowl.
this is the biggest problem in america today! NOT KNOWING THE RAW TRUTH!!! I'll present you all with a stunning example! Where did our current fiscal problems originate from??? RONALD REAGAN'S TRICKLE UP ECONOMICS!!!!
My example. In 1982 i was employed at a steel mill! (I made 8x the minimun wage for the tmes,BUT FAR FROM RICH!!!) After 35 yrs. of experience in the steel industry, i make only 3 x minimun wage! Reagan first went after the air traffic controllers union(To bust it the same as Scott Walker has done in wisconson!) Then he goes after the steel workers union! How? Allowing chinese company's to dump steel on the american markets at a price that was less than the cost to make it( the chinese goverment made up the difference to the chinese steel makers)!!!!Reagan KNEW THIS WAS HAPPENING, AND ALLOWED IT, until big steel and it's union workers were no longer employed!!!! (There is more the one way to bust a union!!!) SO NOW THE OUTCOME!!! While reagan was completely oblivious to what he had done, thousands of familys(NOT PEOPLE, FAMILYS! NORMAL SZE FOR TIMES, 6 PEOPLE!!) lost everything they had! I watched as thousands of good people, familys now broken, people committed SUICIDE!!!(YES, MANY WERE MY FRIENDS!!) So where do u think the money goes when you lose your house and all your possesions? (here's a clue, the minimun wage earner is not going to acquire it!!) THE BIG BANKS, WALLSTREET ETC!!! How? well you buy a house for say 30,000. you pay all the interest first! after 15 yrs.(depending on your mortgage!) now all you owe is the principle (30,000) you default ,the bank who has made their profit, repossess your house they sell it again for whatever they can get( maybe the turn it over quickly!) say they get 20,000 now! Then you have no place to call home and the bank sue's you for the other 10,000(bet your think they lost it,huh?)But check the math!!! original value 30,000, you paid 30,000 in interest(their original profit target), then they sell it for 20,000(charging interest profit again, say another 20,000!!) then go after you(you defaulted remember!), for the extra 10,000!!! Let me tell you ,if you go to a casino and turn this kind of money off of them everytime with really very little risk, there would not be a word in our dictionary spelled CASINO!!! Now if you gamble in the casino and you happen to bet millions and it goes wrong,(like the banks and wallstreet did!) our tax money is used to cover your losses!!! Are you seeing the larger picture now??? TRICKLE UP ECONOMIC'S, THANK YOU RONALD REAGAN, WHAT A GREAT LEADER FOR ALL THE PEOPLE!!!!
It's unfortunate you found yourself in that situation. I understand your frustration. However, your attempt to vilify the system is just further evidence of a lack of education. If you didn't agree with the terms of the contract (mortgage), you should not have signed the contract. If I loan you money over a 30 year period, I am going to want to be compensated for lending you that money. But when things didn't go your way, you want to suddenly cry foul and call the lender the villain?! Suck it up. Turn the tables and then ask the same question. Seek first to understand before you seek to be understood. If you're mad at the "big banks" then thank your socialist government. They made it so regulated that little banks can't exist. I understand that you wanted some sympathy. Government cannot compel people to be sympathetic, which is what they're trying to do. It will just result in resentment.
This article fails to mention that out of all other industrialized nations only the USA taxes its citizens no matter where they make their money. The IRS has global reach to compel Americans to pay up no matter what global opportunities they pursue. Most other nations do not and therefore, a lot of potential tax revenue is never collected. Don't be fooled by all the press about rich Americans hiding their money. Very few do and the total dollars involved are nominal compared to the size of our spending. Another issue is the USA's taxes vs benefits is extremely low. You can find plenty of other countries with higher taxes but many of them utilize those funds more effectively to enrich their societies. The USA wastes it and I believe is the primary reason many people resist paying more. The people who believe the rich should be taxed more to bridge the deficit gap are living in fantasy land as the politicians will just have more money to spend with little to show for it. It won't "trickle up" folks. Lastly, this article/opinion piece is laughable. American gas is subsidized? Oil and gas companies get some government tax relief for exploration but if the author, Ravi, wasn't so lazy, he might actually look at how much of a gallon of gas is due to tax breaks vs the taxes the government puts on that gas at the point of sale. Hint, its fractional. Sloppy journalism or intentionally misleading. You be the judge.
The racism card is not going to work this election, but by all means keep trying that class warfare nonsense....
ya..... your right! just keep that card in your wallet till??? what ever good comes ofit???
Obama supporters are socialists. They must be killed.
so name one society in the world that ever exsisited that wasn't a form of socialism? the indians maybe??? but only a few hunters gathered the food for many!!! the romans? the ROMANs? they taxed but also built roads, etc. that everyone enjoyed the benefits off of! maybe you should better define what socialism is! DO YOU KNOW????
Oh one more question? the road to walmart? thinkn you could go there without socialism???
There were plenty of roads built without the government. We don't need a government to build roads. People can do that. And if enough people want that road built, because it benefits the majority and is wanted by the majority, they will build it. Not an oppressive, socialist government that builds roads only a few people use and taxes those who didn't need it and didn't want it.
you 'll all know when socialism is finally over! the one's changing your mom's diaper when she is 88 yrs. old will be YOU!!!!
you strong ant-socialism supporters need to lead by example so step up to the (LITTER) box now.....and let er rip!(SWING AWAY!!!)
glad to see your listening!
Fareed, for a well educated man, your article is intellectual dishonesty at its best. You compare American tax payer profile with India and China ? India and China has masses of population in rural areas where there is massive poverty. Why did you not take France or England ? You wrote the article with a preconceived view and slanted your facts to support it. Intellectual dishonesty !! Shame on you !!
Well stated! Thank you for commenting.
That whooshing sound you just heard was his argument going right over your head. Good grief. My parents warned me about people like you, people who take everything that they have for granted, who wouldn't recognize their own privilege if it nipped them in the rear. Now that I'm a well-established adult it's my duty to pay my parents' warning forward and give the next generation a heads-up.
How nice of the author to compare our taxes to Communist China. When are people going to realize that we need to stop comparing America to how the rest of the world does things?! That is what is bringing this country down. The founding fathers didn't compare their idea of freedom and independence to anyone or anything because it didn't exist. America was once the envy of the world because we didn't compare ourselves to anyone...we set the standard for everyone. We need to get back to those founding principles. Take a look at the history with regards to the revolution that brought about this great country. Those principles and values have come under attack again, in this day and age. Taxation without representation, government oppression, religious freedom under attack. Freedom is not free. It requires work from everyone. Not to be solely placed on the shoulders of the wealthy.
Pro-America, I stand shoulder to shoulder with you. We all need to realize that discipline and sacrifice is required for any nation to be strong. Look at the protests in Germany today in response to the austerity measures the government have to put in place because of overspending ? That is the result of quasi- socialism. At the end of the day, creating the opportunities for hard working people to work and save and provide a strong economy for this children to be able to work hard and save is what America needs.
As I said to the other guy...that whoosh you just heard was this article's arguments going right over your head. You just don't get it. And that makes me sad.
I know I pay at least 25% INCOME Tax, my bonus (which I work hard for because if I don't do a good job I don't get it) is taxed at 42%, my little bitty stock options and investment are taxed at 39% in addition to my sales tax, property tax, ad valorem tax, etc. So I should be a top citizen.
What I have a problem is that we kick out illegals which in turn had I direct impact of produce and meat where I now pay a whole lot more for food in addition to my taxes. I have NEVER used a government funded program ever, except for Police but I don't even call them ever, I probably got more tickets, citations which cost me again hundreds of dollars for some bogus alleged violation.
Those Americans that complain don't do anything to better the country but kill it. I had my property in a very thriving area but it was predominantly old conservative republicans that controlled it. They didn't want anything new or progressive to come in this area needless to say the area itself is now a ghost town, all the business pretty much closed, the area had a Neiman Marcus Anchor store in the mall but was replaced with Kohl's and the mall is now similar to a flea market. Business owners left and said that this area is dead weight but mind you the subdivison are nice its just everything else around it that falls apart
I understand what you say but there should not be 20 millions illegals in this country. Do you think that we have 20 millions jobs for them?
There problem is not about 1 million illegals, there real problem is that we now have 20 million illegal mexicans in this country. What are you going to do with the 20 millions illegals? Are you people insane? Americans should have gone on the streets and violently protest against liberalism that are pro-immigrants and against the federal government for allowing this to happen. Now you people have to pay for those 20 millions illegal mexicans. You now have to pay for their homes (section 8 and FHA), their food stamps, hospital bills, education.
Let's make one thing clear,since not only the writer of this article but Romney himself,seem out of touch with reality.The entire 47% does not not pay taxes! Wage earners,even minimum wage earners,have taxes deducted from their checks.Duh--so they get some of it back at the end of the year?So what.So do middle class and upper class who have tax deductions.Get real,and get a life.
The author clearly stated that the 47% DO pay taxes, and plenty of them. Did you even read it?
The 47% pays no federal income taxes. The federal income tax is the most important because it is the highest % tax compared to state tax or medicare/ss tax. State tax is between 6-9% (depending on the state). And those that pay state tax is very little compared to federal income tax.
So in practical terms, the 47% contribute NOTHING overal l!!!
You want fair tax system? Then make it a flat tax for everyone in the country regardless if you are poor or rich. And dont make excuses why the poor should be excluded and pays nothing because then you self-defeat the purpose of fair tax system. Fairs means everyone not just some. Everyone !!
This kind of talk only fuels the prejudice fire against lower income people.Perhaps if the wealthy 'trickled down' some more of that wealth,we could be in higher tax brackets and pay more taxes! lol Like thats going to happen.If you earn more,you pay more.Thats the way of the world.
To 'trickle down' the money is socialism. Just like redistribution. What's wrong with you? You like to steal and take other people's money just because they were smart enough and work hard?
Poor are poor for a reason. There is no such thing as economic equality.
There are some people who are smart and some who are stupid.
There are some people who are hard working and some who are lazy.
There are some people who are creative and some who are just simple.
There are some people who are talented and some who are not talented.
Dont expect to believe that there should be equal income between the hardworking and the lazy.
Dont expect to believe that there should be equal income between smart and the stupid.
Dont expect to believe that there should be equal income between creative and the simple minded.
You think Steve Jobs was a plain simple, lazy, stupid person? No, that is why he has more money than you.
And yet you want Steve Jobs to give you money, to trick down the money to you, to redistribute money to you?
Then by all means why dont you declare that you are COMMUNIST/SOCIALIST. Declare! Declare!
Don't confuse Tea/Republicans with the facts. They live in a make-believe world (They make things up and expect everyone else to believe them. It's also called fibbing.) Now it's gotten to the point they don't have to show their tax returns nor keep their money in US banks. So much for their patrioti$m! I often wonder if fascism is in their DNA...
The only party that constantly fibs is the Democrats. Democrats and liberal media lost all the credibility. Do you honestly think that average American believes liberal media anymore? Liberal media is anti-democracy.
Let me get this straight. We're supposed to feel better because most of the people and China and India don't pay taxes? That's the precedent? Since when have we wanted the US to be like China or India?
Yes, a rather juvenile article. I was waiting for him to bring up the example of Zimbabwe. I bet even fewer people pay taxes there, so you should be happy, 53%!
I'm kind of alarmed by how many people just plain don't understand the references to India and China. Good grief, people. Is it really that hard to grasp?
As for taxes, I don't mind paying them one bit. Sure, the actual process is only marginally more comfortable than having my teeth ripped out, but I like having roads. I like having public transport that makes it so that I don't have to drive to work and thus save money by not paying for gas/auto insurance/registration. I like the fact that my grandparents are living comfortably in their retirement after working hard their entire lives. I like the kids around me to be receiving an education and therefore reducing their likelihood of becoming violent criminals. I like knowing that if my house is robbed or catches fire then we have emergency responders who will come to my aid after a simple phone call. I liked being able to take out loans for college instead of having to give up the opportunity to better myself because I didn't have tens of thousands stockpiled in a trust fund set up by a wealthy relative. I like knowing that my money helps people in Bible Belt welfare states receive food and medical care, because as much as I dislike their bigotry I'd still feel bad if they went to bed hungry or got very ill from an easily-preventable illness. I *like* contributing to my country. My question for Romney at the GOP and the ultra-wealthy "Whaaa we don't want to have to pay taxes" whiners: What is it about helping your neighbors that you despise so much?
why does this article only comment on India and China's tax rates? These are 2 emerging markets with nothing in common with the US. This is CNN, how about offering UNBIASED facts. What are the tax rates in Western Europe? or developed countries?
this is really a stupid article, with illogical thought processes, and less than subtle jabs at Romney and a desire for equal outcomes (socialism). "Feel privileged that you are paying taxes!" Never mind that govt is supposed to be accountable to you, but is spending your grandkids money!
The big difference I see between China and India is :
China is building new homes for the poor and rurual Chiense. China is trying to improve the lives of the lower income people.
India becomes economic stronger, but only for the rich. All poor Indians remain the same, living in slums, as they have been doing for the past 100 years.
There are several errors in the article: Payroll taxes might be taken out of people's paychecks but if they get a refund (47% of America does) then they really didn't pay any taxes after all. Also, Social Security taxes can't possibly count since people pay in what they supposedly are supposed to receive back when they are old (don't hold your breath). Medicare is only used by the poor who are the only ones who qualify to receive it even though every worker pays for it. Property taxes are used mainly to fund public schools which many rich people do not use – they pay to send their kids to private schools thus paying even more money in addition to their property taxes for education.
People in India and China by in large do not pay taxes, but you should also note that the Govt in both countries offer very little in the way of benefits. For the most part, these citizens must fend for themselves and not the Govt. It seems that everyone wants the Govt to give them more but no-one wants to PAY more.
Govt which have provided more benefits than income over the long term are all in financial trouble right now. Think Spain and Greece. At our current pace (with either candidate) and what you see in Greece today will, in my prediction, be the US in 30 years.
As long as the Fed is in control there will be a deficit. End the Fed and the Irs. Impose a 10% tax on all goods and services .The Fed has ruled Us for 99years too long.
Ravi Agrawal, if we are going to compare ourselves to India and China and the number of people who pay taxes and the tax threshold, we can't look at just half of the equation. The other side of the equation shows in China and India:
most don't pay taxes = most live in squalor and have few human rights
In the United States, most pay some level of taxes = all live a lifestyle above the "no tax line of India and China" and better than most of the world.
Ravi Agrawal, I do not know your agenda but it is not to give a view of the truth or a complete picture; what is your real goal? Does America need to bring our standards down to a level of China where the government oppresses the people and crushes their voices or to India's where the government is powerless to help anyone? Do we need survival of the fittest, overcrowded slums and people living under pieces of tin? Take your politics and lies somewhere else.
You know whats one thing thats great about America? We aren't China. This article made me sick.
OK, lets use that very poor nation of India who 97% of the counrty lives in pverty and the communist country of China, where the pay dirt cheap labor...Zakaria...Maybe you are better off, using plagerism...
So, Obama has to release his original birth certificate, even though Hawaii's Governor said they do not use them anymore and the printout is the official one and personal certified that the printout was legitimate .. yet, Romney does not have to release is tax returns .. Now, that only shows how amazingly stupid GOP voters are
I think they fail to realize that in those countries that he mentions, those that live below the "income tax" level usually live in complete squalor, where that isn't the case here. We DO have such great poverty, in places, but not to the extent of 47% of the population. He also doesn't seem to mention that those same "extra" taxes, above and beyond income tax, are also paid by everyone. The article fails to mention that the "subsidies" for these products and services that would be "more expensive" without subsidies are subsidized by taxes on those same services. Look at your phone bill. Look at your TV bill. Look at your Internet bill. Look at your cell phone bill. Look at your power bill. Every one of them has a federal or state (or both) tax or "charge" just to use the service. A large portion of the gas bill you pay at the pump is a mandated tax on the fuel. To own a car you have to register it (pay a fee), pay a property tax on it (even if it is sitting in the driveway broken and you don't use it...did you know in many states it is illegal to own a non-functional junker without paying tax on it and having it legally registered? We are taxed and taxed. In the end, those that pay AREN'T discouraged that they pay, they are discouraged that they see people who are completely capable of working, with college degrees, who sit around and say "I don't want to take that $14/hour job because I won't receive my $16/hour worth of unemployment + food support + government provided cell phone if I do" and then complain about being unemployed for two years.
Now I see the light. Liberals want us to be just like India and China. That is th perfect world to them. Why else would you use them as your evidence in this article?
Perhaps it is a priveledge. But here, we think that everyone should be priveledged. Spread the priveledge around.
Spreading the privilege around is nothing but pure socialism.
You can get privilege only through creativity and hard work. Not at someone else expense.
When I read the headline, I was expecting a good article with good support. Unfortunately, this article is just about India and China. There are absolutely no comparisons with any other civilized country in the whole world. What a worthless article.
It's a bit misleading to say that vast majorities in China and Inida are paying "no tax". They are just paying no federal income tax. Several of the services listed as examples that are provided by taxes in this article, like the police and highway systems, are largely paid for by states (through sales and/or their own income taxes) and municipalities (through property taxes). These taxes are levied on more than 2-3% of the population in China and India.
Furthermore, gasoline is NOT subsidized in the US – it is simply taxed at a much higher rate in most other countries. So even if you're paying less income tax in another country, you're still contributing to government revenue in other ways – like that 100%-plus tax rate on gasoline.
I really don't think there is a choice. Obama wins by default. Generally I will vote a fiscal conservative and I am very tired of war. My entire life is a recollection of one war after another for the United States. Seeing young men walking around on what looks like small skis in a Publix parking lot has led me to the decision for November. I will not vote. There is no choice.
Why is the author comparing the US to India and China? Western European countries have a socioeconomic structure which more closely resembles our own. The only comparison given to similar coutries are gas prices, which is a poor indicator of overall tax burden. A useful article would compare overall household tax burden between the US and countries with similar socioeconomic structure and debt to GDP ratios. As it is, the article serves no value.
No!!!! THERE ARE MORE TAKERS THEN MAKERS.
The 47% are the takers.
And the takers are always liberals and democrats.
Just like every other pro-Obama member of the press, you misrepresent Romney's remark. He was not saying it would not hbe his job as president to take care of 47% of Americans, because they pay no taxes. He's saying that his goal as a CANDIDATE is to focus on the 53% that pay taxes, to win their votes, because his policies benefit them and have no appeal to those who are on government assistance and not paying taxes. Many of those people will vote for Obama, regardless of what Romney says, because they view Obama as more likely to keep the checks flowing.
Amen to that!
Seriously? The "comparison" is with one of the poorest nations on Earth (India) and a communist country?
How slanted can you be to write this?
Compare U.S. with REAL countries where people live decent with running water and toilets INSIDE their homes.
France, Britain, Germany etc. Not the 2 examples that are so far off the deepend just to write a liberal slanted article supporting Obama.
Sad journalism. Just sad.
This is why people say liberalism is running amok. Liberals just don't know anymore what is logical, what is common sense and how to write it intelligently.
To 'trickle down' the money is socialism. Just like redistribution. Just like progressiveness. Its all socialism.
What's wrong with you? You like to steal and take other people's money just because they were smart enough and work hard?
Poor are poor for a reason. There is no such thing as economic equality.
There are some people who are smart and some who are stupid.
There are some people who are hard working and some who are lazy.
There are some people who are creative and some who are just simple.
There are some people who are talented and some who are not talented.
Dont expect to believe that there should be equal income between the hardworking and the lazy.
Dont expect to believe that there should be equal income between smart and the stupid.
Dont expect to believe that there should be equal income between creative and the simple minded.
You think Steve Jobs was plain simple, lazy, stupid person? No, that is why he has more money than you.
And yet you want Steve Jobs to give you money, to trick down the money to you, to redistribute money to you?
Then by all means why dont you declare that you are COMMUNIST/SOCIALIST. Declare! Declare!
Wow. Comparing the United States with China and India is a very bold comparison. I would like to see the statistics comparing the United States to countries that do not have a corrupt caste culture or communist government. Compare the United States to countries such as Greece and France and Spain who are struggling financially and and have governments who frivolously give hand-outs to the unemployed and poor. Establishing a society that is dependent on the government to provide for them sets the foundation for failure (as can be seen in the failure of Greece)
Huh? What would gas cost if we weren't taxed on it? A huge amount of the price at the pump is taxes.
If you count everything, all the taxes together, I pay about 50%. It's my single largest expense. And I'm poor. I can't afford needed medical care or insurance mostly because I pay so much in taxes. Income tax counts for about 30%, then add in sales tax, property tax, it goes on and on. I lose close to half of my income to one government agency or another. And I don't even think I know about some of the taxes I pay. It's probably even higher. We do pay as much in taxes as people in countries that provide full health insurance. We pay but we don't get the benefits. Those are reserved for the very poor or the very rich.
If you are paying 30% in income taxes. You aren't poor.
You guys are missing the point. We DON'T want to be like Europe , China and India. We are trending more towards them, and Obama is fine with that because of his upbringing by Muslim fathers. Obama has talked about dragging America into this mind set since high school.
Frankly, if I wanted a European government I'd move there.
I donm't
Hard to define a "taker" as somebody who provides more to the government than they receive. That's the point of taxation, isn't it? We aren't all "net" takers. I doubt the Romney, Jobs, Buffet get anything like millions of $$ of direct government benefit.
As long as the Fed is in control there will be a deficit. End the Fed and the Irs. Impose a 10% tax on all goods and services .The Fed has ruled Us for 99years too long......
Lets accept Mitt Gaffey Romney's startling behaviour on and off stage. Because he is being himself – totally disconnected with Americans at large.
I have been patient with him but now I can conclude with a clear conscience:
that Gaffey is the wrong man in the wrong place and the wrong time.
Whats happening to the Republicans that they have decline to this level of wretchedness?