By Fareed Zakaria
Al-Qaeda understands that if the Arab world democratizes, it loses the core of its ideological appeal – which is why Al Qaeda's head, Ayman al-Zawahiri wrote a book condemning the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood's decision to support and participate in Egypt's democratic process.
So while we might despair over a particular statement or policy from the new Arab regimes, they have produced elected leaders with real legitimacy – and these leaders denounce Al Qaeda and violence and they do try in their own way to reconcile Islam and democracy.
Should we oppose them?
Watch the video for Fareed's full take on the debate over whether to support political Islam or secular dictators. Fareed Zakaria GPS airs on Sundays at 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. ET.
 |
Post by: |
© 2012 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
| Advertising practices | Advertise with us | About us | Work for us | Help
Respected Mr. fareed Jakaria Garu,
what is the meaning of Political Islam, can you describe ?
Islam people also human, they need and having needful rights, you donot disgrace.
And World Community must demolish Al-quedas regime, but U.S defends Al-Qaeda.
reson is Al-Queda having weapons all are imported from U.S. and Islam community
will not accept al-Quedas political entry, because of they well awared about democracy
standards, and they fully followed U N O rules and regulations. so world community having faith on
Political Islam.
The US defends Al Queda? What planet are you on?
The CIA FUNDS Al Qaeda, wake up man.
US provided support and training to Al-Qaeda's spiritual leaders (i.e. Bin Laden) when they fought against the Soviets in Afganistan.
You are completely wrong. Show me one piece of evidence that the US supports Al Qaedaand not any kind of conspiracy theory...just one piece of credible evidence.
The CIA funded the mujahadeen, which turned into the northern alliance – the same northern alliance that kicked the taliban out. The CIA did not fund a group that turned on them. Wow.. what people will believe?
A small group of radicals from the mujahadeen and mostly the pakistan ISI became Al Quaeda.
And what language are you trying to speak?
Youre about to learn how Obama has been running arms to the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt and wait for it....... Syria.
you fukkiinn muslims, go to hxxl and stay there, etrnally!
mr. moses did you mean hitler was right to kill your buddies
Go Moses!
I did not know that U.S manufactures AK – 47, but as usually it is easier to just blame U.S for everything
The creater of AK-47 said that he invented it for peace but unformtunately it used for terrorism
During the 1980's, the US funelled thousands of Russian Made AK 47's that were purchased by Isreal into Afghanistan to supply the Afghan Freedom fighters, or the Muja Hadeen. These same freedom fighters were trained by the US CIA and their names were all kept on a list AKA Al Quida (english translation = The List)
I Slamic logic!
As Kemal Ataturk, founder of modern Turkey, once observed "This is Islam, an absurd theology of an immoral Beduoin, a rotting corpse that poisons our lives". That about sums it up. The MB is playing for the long haul and, if not confronted in the short term, will ultimately poison the well.
John Geheran
My dear fellow......Islam is a totalitarian philosophy masquerading as a religion. To understand the political nature of Islam you need to become familiar with Islamic jurisprudence, ahadith and the literature produced by Bulkhari as well as other credible Islamic scholars. You will also need to stop drinking the kool aid served at your local mosque or Madrass. Good luck.
The USA and Europe should close the doors to the Islamic Arab world. Put them in the lowest ranks, ignore their problems and rantings. Europe and the USA would be better served by helping to develop Latin America (Central and South America). Thee people need help, they need education, and they need guidance and protection from many of their own leaders. In the long run, we can affect many more positive outcomes by focusing our foreign resources on our needy neighbors! The Arab idea is never going to happen. Our Latin Americans are not only our neighbors, they are Americans. They have much potential.
I agree. Islam has entered it's "dark ages" phase and will be stuck there for the next 400 years. If we seal them off from the rest of the world and let them out when they've grown up, we can focus on peoples who will actually be grateful for our help.
Fareed is not disgracing Islam, sometimes I believe too many non English speaking people as a first language, do not comprehend our meanings well. He speaks of the radicals (as we all do)as being the problem, not the majority of Muslims.In no way does US support Al Qaeda and NEVER would intentionally give the weapons. When Afghanistan was fighting Russians, US supported Afghan people, there was no group called Al Qaeda at that time. There are some radical Muslims, including Al Qaeda who want to push their radical extremist views on the world, to both Muslims and non Muslims. Their brand of political Islam is how they think everyone should live, under sharia and with one religion as the government in the world. To many people,Religion should never be a part of government, it should be practiced in the home. Mixing it with government or laws makes religion appear violent and oppressive, as it does in Iran. You can give equal rights to people under government laws which apply to everyone fairly, including women and other religions.
erröl-is beszéltem már!!!!
uraim az agy beállitása ugy is müködik ha mutatnak neki -valakinek az arcárol egy fotot ott fog állni és zokogni!!!!sőt ha másikat mutatnak ami gyülöletet vált ki belölle megfordul és az ellen harcol-ez a világháboru gyözelme nem a szobeszéd nagy lajos dorog hun
Nagy
You make even less sense after translating your mindless statement from hungarian into english.
Te itt tele szart te hülye kis idióta. I mean seriously......
You had an excellent and rational description of why we shouldn't believe in a sorcerer or God, in your other post. One thing I'd add, once you rid your mind of the illusion of a supreme being, you will feel freedom to think like you have never before. Its an amazing feeling, to look at the world without being a slave to a totalitarian dictator. The world is beautiful.
The Americans have standing for presidecy a candidate who adheres to an obviously false religion hanging on the coat tails of Christianity and CNN asks if an Islamist is okay? Oi vey.
Des Currie
All religion is false, makes no difference which lie a particular candidate or leader follows, it is still a lie.
Proof please, Andrew. What are your sources?
Obviously Andrew is so smart that he doesn't need sources. Obviously he's smarter than the likes of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle, all of whom were deeply religious.
Obviously Andrew is determed to follow in the footsteps of Voltaire; and, Andrew will, no doubt, experience what Voltaire experienced in the last hours of his life–not to mention what he's going to experience for eternity.
@LR You use words like proof and sources but I do not think you understand what they mean. One does not need proof of Santa's non-existance.
Agreed. Proof is needed. I didn't believe Harry Potter was real until I read the books as proof. The movies were just icing on the 'proof cake.'
Barry please do not confuse fear of being ostracized as support for your religions. there is a reason the top echelon of intelligence is atheist.
@Karlotious:
"According to a survey of members of the American Assn. for the Advancement of Science, conducted by the Pew Research Center in May and June this year, a majority of scientists (51%) say they believe in God or a higher power, while 41% say they do not."
articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/24/opinion/la-oe-masci24-2009nov24
But you keep on keepin' on; whatever makes you sleep comfortably.
First, one need not prove a negative. It's a lie until someone proves it. God has not been proven, therefore he is in the category of imaginary, like leprechauns and unicons. You don't have to prove these things don't exist until someone actually shows you evidence of their existence, until then its not worth debating.
I don't know about Andrew but I am CERTAINLY smarted than Aristotle, Socrates and Plato, who also all thought the earth was flat, there were four primary elements and disease was caused by any number of things, none of which were germs.... So yes, they also believed in god, but that's not a strong argument now is it.
And Richard. I can join the AAAS and so can you, by buying a subcribtion to "Science" magazine, check out their site. so a poll of members of AAAS does not a poll of scientists make. I did notice that as a WHOLE the poll found slightly more than half believed in god the only two actual categories of scientsts cited (Chemists and medical professionals) believed at rates BELOW 40%....
Other polls of strictly scientists have found rates more in line with OP's position.
Agreed. It's beyond my understanding how so many people are willing to suspend reason and common sense soley on indoctrination, upbringing and fear.
Please read all the proof you need from such higher intellects as Stephen Hawking, Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss. It's EASY to just go-with-the-flow of religion and faith: It takes WORK and intellectual acuity to understand that God is an invented notion for which there is zero proof of its existence.
Uneducated people simply don't have the intellectual tools or wherewithal to sit down and UNDERSTAND the science behind the origins of the Universe and living organisms including Mankind. Most people are too lazy or un-curious to want to REALLY KNOW what the deal is. Religion is like a cheap yet entertaining flick, requiring no effort. It's "existence for dummies". To understand the rational, credible and largely DEMOSTRABLE truth behind the existence of "everything", you need to be prepared to reallllly dig-in and READ.
Hawkings has declared that there is no reason why there would have to be a "god" in order for the Universe to have come into existence. Dr. Krauss demonstrates through Quantum Mechanics that it's fully possible that "something" can come from "nothing", specifically the Big Bang; Dawkins makes an undisputable and convincing case based on PROOF that Creationism is an invented folly that cannot be compared to the straight-up fact of Evolution.
Educate yourselves; and if you truly do so it's quite likely that you will find it hard to buy-in to much of the fantastic garbage you have been fed by people who just never asked "why?".
Oh, I'm oh so sorry. I forgot to bow down and worship the perfection of the almighty god of science today. All of you are so biased that you are blind to ANY other solution that cannot be proven through books, testing and theory. "All religions are false". To make that statement you must be a theologian and have spent your entire life studying ALL of the religions on the face of the Earth without biased to find such an absolute conclusion. What was your hypothesis? What did you use as a control group? Can you list all of your sources? What scientific methods did you use? I myself don't follow a religion, but I do believe in God.
I've often observed that those who claim there's no proof of God's existence have never, in fact, searched for proof. They seem to lack the courage to search for the truth, and console themselves with baseless claims. If you have the courage to face the truth, even if it means that you've been wrong all along, try starting with the Evidence That Demands A Verdict series by Josh McDowell.
If you have the courage.
Neutral – I am a biochemist who does in fact understand the inner workings of cells and the metabolic pathways by which they create complex molecules from more simple raw materials, among other things. The marvelous complexity of life at the molecular level is one reason why I am no longer an atheist, although still not an adherent to a theistic religion. There is no proof that life evolved from inorganic raw materials, that is a statement repeated ad nausem by those who are frightened by the idea that perhaps a creator is responsible for the existence of life. And, I might add, Richard Dawkins is a blowhard pseudo-scientist making money off of people who as you described, are too lazy and uneducated to read about the truth of what is proved and what is still theory. Referring to him as a credible scientist shows your shallow hand in this argument.
You will support them if they follow slavery economic policy that helps foreign company to steal natural resource . If they do not , you will not . It depends on economic policy .
Just seems too parellel to the Kurdish issue, although it might be viewed local.
And now why you care a lot about Egyptian ? Because of your support , despot had humiliated and tortured us , we did not forget it . The USA was the reason of why despot was at power for years . You think we are fools ? Just to be noted 92% egyptian hate Zionist and egyptian do not want to get slavery help
The Israelites were the slaves in Egypt for a long time. We are done with that. Remember the Pyramids? Did they not build it to your specs?
Ok LR. Pyramids were not built by slaves. They where build in motivation of religion, and employees who worked there were treated very well. This fact reflected the quality of the building. Go read Western history or do a basic research and you will see.
im pretty sure they were built by slaves
America doesn't care if a country is Democratic or not. We have never tried to spread Freedom or Democracy. All we care about it power
RM you're pretty sure because cartoons told you. Experts that have studied ancient Egypt will tell you it wasn;t just slaves perhaps not even a majority were slaves. The regular population built them too.
Pyramid build took place while the Nile was at its peak level in annual floods. It was the social event of the year. Artisans from all over Egypt and some ordinary citizens came to work, worship and party. While there may have been a few slaves involved in building them, most of the people involved were the wealthier social classes of Egyptian society.
The reason Egyptians were kept in bondage by their government is because they did rise up until last year and do anything about it. Internet made that possible and the internet was invented by the West. So in essence the West helped the Egyptians overcome their submission to their leader.
Lee, US supported Mubarak who said you either accept me who will keep the terrorists at bay or you accept the chance to have terrorists leading Egypt. They tried to get along with Mubarak is that supporting him? Just as they will try to get along with Morsi. They also told Mubarak on MANY occasions he could have problems if he didnt improve economy, jobs and listen to his people. US was right, and they also discussed human rights with him. So they didnt always agree with him. He wasnt threatening the US. Extremists threaten the world. Mubarak tried to contain the extremists. Things could have been far worse in Egypt if he hadnt. Im not saying everything he did was right, US didnt always think he was right. American people care about all people in the world, and I think most of the people of the word are good people. We just have to work together to stop the extremist Islamists together, because they are making life difficult for all of us and trying to creat division. Americans know there are good Muslims too. There is too much misunderstanding.
I am absolutely astounded that Mr. Zakaria is allowed to write an article on CNN supporting the murder and persecution of minorities in Islamist states.
That's what Political Islam is.
Mr. Zakaria, why don't you go back to plagiarizing clean articles? At least the writers whom you were ripping off were not racist and bigoted against non-Muslims. What you're doing now is even more morally bankrupt.
What you're saying is merely a subjective opinion, nothing more. Don't try to pass off your personal feelings as facts, because they're not.
There are many muslim countries. Do you know how many have been run by a theorcratic government? The answer is a fraction. In their own countries muslims have only known persecution. There haven't been enough Islamic governments to determine how political Islam will govern. That's the whole point of the article. We've been propping up dictators so long we don't know what Islamic governments would do. The whole reason why we have been against them is because the west was alot more christian than it is today. It was a clash of religions and christians wanted muslims to be kept down. In the cases where there were Islamic governments such as Taliban in Afghanistan, or in Iran, or in Saudi Arabia yes there were bad things that happened. However that cant be attributed to Islam, it is attributed to dictators protecting their rule (saudi arabias case), ignorant uneducated people and extremists (afghanistan case), and Iran isn't that bad. They had a relatively good economy previous to the sanctions, they have scientific achievements. There is no law in Iran to wear burqas many Iranian women dont. Do they have bad policies Sure, name me a country that doesnt. People in the US are always complaining about policies in laws. The US has been a democracy for hundreds of years. But when was it that women got the vote? when was it that slavery was abolished? when was it that segregation was ended? Has racism ended? How long ago was it when the government introduced prohibition? How many protests have been shut down through force? You're comparing young nations or nations where democracy hasn't been allowed to take hold by the West to nations that have been democratic for a long time.
And contrary to the mindless dribble of ignorant or racist people since Iran became a theocracy it hasn't invaded anyone, it fought a war with Iraq because Saddam invaded which he did with the full blessing of the West. Iran hasn't said it wants nuclear weapons and has denounced them several times. Their flaw is they are becoming powerful so its neighbours, Israel, and the West want to bring it back down. Say it for what it is, I'm ok with that because it is understandable. Countires compete for dominance. But to lie and say that it is an aggressive country and it has stated it wants nukes is a lie. It supports militant groups? yea thats bad. But so do we. We supported the ouster of a democratically elected government in Iran and supported the installation of a dictator in its place, how about all the Latin American nations as well. The US isnt about democracy its about its interests. If the US knew that an Islamic government would be benefical to it economically or strategically they'd be all for it. However part of US interests is (behind closed doors) is support of Israel since its a religious duty of christians stand with Israel. Since that's when Jesus will come back (supposedly).
The answer is: All of them.
Political Islam means that Islam – as a relgion – is viewed out of its political aspect and that the religion should dominate all aspects of life and rule the country .
There is a seldom known nonfiction named "Majnun; the Madmen in Medieval Islamic Society" (by Micheal W. Dolls copyright reasons; realy a hard book to find since it was not a best seller for the topic I suppose) for mainly on how mentally ill was seen and treated back than. Including a lot of Galen medicine and HUMOURS. Back than a man suffering from love was seen as a MADMAN since he was sharing his heart which was supposed to be devoted to God with a mortal woman. This book also tells of a Medieval Muslim Judge (kadi) who prohibited the production of women's shoes so that women will not be able to get out of their houses and cause a sin
By the way I know this book by heart for I had informally translated it into Turkish (400 and so pages) for a Turkish Psyciatrist who was interested in the history of madness.
You're talking about the stupidity of Medieval times? Everyone was stupid at that time, look at Europe. To a smart person youd look to see if Islam itself has those policies. And it doesn't. These are man made policies. If you want to bash medieval people go at it, but you cant use it to bash Islam.
Dear Hello, I am born a Muslim and have not changed my religion eversince. It is just that I hate to see the religion I was born under be taken back centuries and I hate people who twist it to their purpose. I hate to see the harm people do by corrupting Kuran. I hate those people who use the name of Kuran and Islam in such wile acts. My mentioning Middleages was just a polite attemt not to blame any one person.
There is no sereration of Religious Islam, Political Islam, or Cultural Islam. It is all one over-arching ideology that infects all aspects of a society.
Let me get this straight Fareed, you mean by "democratization" is to put these countries more firmly under the control of the right-wing thugs Washington? This, no truly sane person would want and especially if one is a Muslim. No world power, the U.S. included, should ever become dominant in the Middle East!
Funny how the idiot religious people always claim that they are right and the others are heretics and infidels. There have been ~2600 gods existing on this world from one time or another, and everyone claims that theirs is the correct one. Watch the Daily show last Thursday and watch what crazy christians that we have in the US congress. Religion had is shot, it was called the dark ages. We need philosophers and scientists as our leaders, not lawyers, businessman and religious zealots. Our problems stem from the idiot religious people voting people to congress because of their stances on abortion and gay rights, not important things like education and equality. Religion will destroy countries like it always has, we need to adopt reason and prosper.
I hear this all the time, science may have died in Europe during the Dark ages because of Christianity, but the rest of the world, particularly the middle east was just fine. The Islamic golden age continued the studies of science, astronomy, mathematics and philosophy, this was during the dark ages.
It is not religion that destroys nations, it is human stupidity. Did the soviet union collapse because of religion? No, it did not. You're giving too much emphasis on religion and simply underestimating the level of human stupidity. Super powers of the past, present and future will not rise and collapse because of religion, they will rise because of economic and social harmony and collapse because of expansionism and debt.
Simply saying religion is the cause of humanities problems is dismissive of other symptoms, and that is perhaps more dangerous than religion will ever be.
By the way, I'm agnostic.
You cannot simply ignore the role of religion in these Islamic based societies. What has been true on occasion has not ALWAYS been true.Your brush is painting with too broad a stroke, IMHO. Good post, though.
Funny how the idiots that claim there is no God always call on him when they think that they about to die.. They blame every thing bad on religion,but at that moment they think they are looking death in the face they call on the God that they have rejected and denied all their lives.
Nope.
The sum of that questions explains itself – no they are not.
Islamism (Political Islam) and dictatorship are not the only 2 options that the Arabs have. Dictatorship has a higher potential for destruction and oppression, while Islamism can lead to misinterpretation of the Koran and hinder progress in the long run. They could choose to be secular and democratic, but it's their choice to make. No matter what their choice will be, I hope they'll find peace. The Middle East has been in turmoil for too long.
The pope says mohammad is the devil.
and a historical and deeper look into the original holly books say the devil is an angle of God.
Acute or obtuse angles?
That would be a Right Angle
It had to be 180 degree. Or we can get into a sub-debeta on horoscopes. Thank you for reminding me of my "Freudian slip" though
Kind'of liked it.
That's not appropriate (Islame). Mohammed is the best human being walked on this earth. Buy it or leave it; it is your problem.
I don't buy it. At best mohammad is a pedophile.
He was a gay paedophile but now he's satans punk
Simply read Asimov's Foundations. Most believe Isaac Asimov is a sci-fi writer, but this series clearly sets the path to a dominating power and eventualy unity. Simply in summary: 1) RELIGIOUS DOMINATION (pity Turkey gave up the Caliph authority in 1923 on the path to Democracy. There is a large Turkish group who does not forgive Ataturk for that:) ) ; 2) TRADING/ TECHNOLOGICAL DOMINANCE; 3) EQUAL INTERACTION
You're missing two important aspects: Foreknowledge of eventual Galactic Empire (America's Manifest Destiny) and the Second Foundation guiding from the shadows using Psycohistory. Perhaps the latter is the Illuminati and the New World Order?
Perchance?
But between you and me I am all for Gaia:)
Say tired of playing there is a asying of the Turkish Father Ataturk which goes: "If you will educate people, you first have to go down to their level".
Double standards. Who is Zakaria think he is? bringing his islamist mentality to the US media. If the west elects a Christian Fundementalist as the president, Zakaira will have his panties in a wad. And he is asking us if its okay to support a Islamist regime.
We have to oppose Islamist regimes becasue they are about subjigating women and minorities. This is against US values and should always oppose even if democaratically elected.
Islam isn't about subjugating women and minorities.
ofcourse its about subjagation of women and minority. To ensure the core of Islamic fath is stable and strong, Islam will suppress will try to suppress any threat against it. Wether it be womens liberty, other religions or secularism. The problem with christianity was the church not the religion itself. The problem with Islam is itself, and the fact that its prophet was a crude warlord.
Right so why do we support them... I'm looking at you Saudi Arabia.... Iraq.... Bin Laden.... The Shah of Iran.....
We've supported so many islamic dictators it's not even funny. Why can't we support democratically elected islamist leaders?
It's clearly not okay because we didn't pick them. America hates democracy.
Elections are nothing more than a method for Islamists to become dictators. The islamists love democracy as long as they are on the outside and stand a chance of getting elected. Once in however, they will make sure that door is shut for anyone else with an opposing view.
They will surely become a theocracy or outright dictatorship. Yet another reason why democracy won't work in Islamic countries.
Absolutely right! Applauds... applauds...! I wonder whey no one from the Obama Admin can see that?
Oh yea? How many Islaimst dictators have there been? There's Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and maybe Iran (dont know much about its politics). Did Egypt have an Islamist dictator? Jordan? Syria? Iraq? Yemen? Tunisia? .... The answer is no. They just had (have) dictators, who persecute everyone including islamists. You're just part of the flock of ignorant parrots. You just repeat what everyone says without actually looking to see how man islamist governments there are.
The answer to all arguments provided in this forum is Jesus it is just that simple.
Should CNN have people of credibility on staff or those who cheat and steal material of others such as Fareed? Time to put honest questions on this forum for debate.
Any dictator is a million times better than any Islamic theocracy. The evidence is clear in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Iran and the list goes on. Even in Saudi Arabia if it was not for oil the country would be another Afghanistan.
False question. It is like asking who was crueler, Pope Urban II or Nero.
Islam has no plce in America...this is a political religion that is bent on control
Note to self: After inventing the Time Machine, first go back to 700 AD, then 1936 and finally yesterday with the winning lottery numbers. Bring plenty of ammo.
There is no greater evil than Islam. Its entire purpose is to enslave all they can and kill the rest. It is completely incompatible with any form of dissent or tolerance. Islam has given us our alternatives: Convert or Die. I choose a third course: Islam must be exterminated for Humanity to flourish.
Ever hear of the "dhimma?" Look it up, you redneck.
First look up The Muslim Rule of Spain 711–1492; then look up The Spanish Inquisitions, you will know how Muslim treat follower of other religions under its rule and how does Christianity compared.
Let's look at the Indian experiment for a second. Not sayin democracy is bad just that it is not a panacea for every scenario in the third world.
"Experimental Democracy" has failed in India. An experiment that was being shoved down India's throat by western countries too eager to propagate their own values on a country that was trying to decolonize itself while trying to shed the communist skin of being a Soviet ally. India was thus trapped. What has become evident now is that this "Experimental Democracy" has marginalized the country. The marginalized groups of the country – Dalits and ‘backward’ castes/classes, indigenous ‘tribal’ people and religious minorities have been disenfranchised. "The belief that corruption is the important issue in the country is shared only by the minority living in urban areas and towns who have been beneficiaries of economic liberalization policies mandated by western countries. The most important challenges of Indian society remain as follows: justice, social and economic equality and equal access to certain standards of life for all Indians. “While India seems too eager to please its western masters and put on a progressive and softer face for CNN for public consumption, people see through it. The consequences of this "Band – Aid" approach will be brutal for India geo-politically when it realizes that the GDP statistics that it has been relying to gage its progress has not amounted to much in the long run.
I agree with you. Democarcy is the trojan horse being used in India to open the billions up to consume western goods.
So the alternative to democracy that will work better (or has worked better) in India is....what?
Probably an Army takeover in India would work the best from the western lens. Quicker decision making to open up markets for western goods and services. We will call call it benevolent democracy (wink wink)
@Hamilton Talbot: So are "western goods" a good thing or bad thing for India? Difficult to determine from your two comments above.
@ysc.....It does not matter from western perspective whether good or bad. That is for you Indians to figure out. From the western lens it is all about creating demand for their G&S so that their economies prosper. Does the British East India Company ring a bell?
@HT - well, I'm not Indian or from India. I was just wondering whether *you* (not the west) think western G&S are good/bad for India....I'm guessing you think it's bad? If so, what do you (and krm1007) think will work in India, if not democracy? My point - it's easy to criticize democracy, but trickier to suggest and implement alternatives that are better, IMO.
I came across this from an earlier posting. Thought it may answer your queries.
"I continue to read with interest the thesis presented on CNN that India is “Too Big To Succeed” in a socio-politico context. Although experts use this in an economic sense, its geo-political connotations are indeed powerful. Empowering subjugated minorities in India by splitting it into smaller states would trigger uber economic demand for western nations who have given so much financial and technology aid to India with no return to show for the investment. I concur with this approach and find the premise to be on solid footing. Central Asian States (CAS) are a case in point on this successful approach. We need to understand that India has an unmanageable large population mired in poverty and we are spinning our wheels trying to feed it. It is also too big of a geographical unit to govern and for democracy to take traction."
The above mssage was for @ysc
@Amit – hmm, you mean India should consider "balkanizing" like the former Yugoslavia and the USSR for purposes of better manageability? Interesting idea....should it happen, hopefully it won't be tragic like 1947.
@krm007....apparently your thesis is that socialism has failed in India nad so has democracy. Secularism has been a bummer.Are you imlying that army takeover in India is in the offing? If so, would you then agree that ISI has infiltrated the Indian Armed Forces and orchestrating this inevitability?
You raise an interesting question, not only about India. Does Democracy have an optimal value with respect to population size? I think that would make for some interesting social science/political research. In fact, I suspect there has been some done already.
Town Hall Democracy -vs- Mega-Media Controlled Democracy. What are the implications?
Fascinating!
I agree with you that an implosion of India is the only answer. Albeit controlled.
Now that i think about it US is the largest democracy with a population of about 300 million. There too the people feel disenfranchised.
Count the number of jews you see on U.S TV add to that the men behind the scenes, the Producers, CEO's etc. Is it democracy to have 2% people have control of a country?
According to Romney, 2% is twice as much in control as needed.
The schematic at the end is as siplme as it can get you can't really simply or complicate a circuit diagram reading a circuit diagram can be a bit strange first couple times you just need to learn how to number pins and how to read things like capacitor and diode polarity. Google circuit diagram symbols and you're bound to find tons of stuff!
Democracy is to to keep the majority looking the other way while the few plunder and line their pockets to control media, politics, wall street etc. Seldom works in poor and illiterate countries. India is a good example.
Question: Is it better to have to have elected Islamist in the Arab world, or secular dictators?
Answer: It is better to have leaders that are acceptable to the people in the countries they run. Which is both – but only as long as it is the people within who at best, choose that leader, or at least, accept him or her. America should come to grips with its decreasing ability to dictate the individual destinies of the 200+ countries and territories of the world. Just imagine a scenario where Chinese citizens would call upon their government to arm to the teeth, random individuals in the US in order to help them topple a government to which they are opposed. It could never happen!. We are drunk on the suppositions that 1)might equals right, and 2) we have some pre-ordained mission to be the arbiter in every global case (though we seem to only lay down judgments in the ones where there is substantial treasure to loot!)
need to revrt back to" Khalifa" form of govt.
Which is better, dictators who are friends or democraticly elected goverment who are enemies?
The best is a benevolent dictatorial democracy.
wa'alaikum salam it's nice to meet you, brother Hathim Yoosuf. Thanks for your visit. I am rellay sorry for limited info about Abu Bakr Ba'asyir at this blog. I never up date the recent news about the process at the court, it makes me sad to find that the justice can't be reached by all people here. Most of good person (good public figures) are arrested and being prisoned, while the corruptors can fly abroad and go anywhere they want. Next time, Insha Allah I attempt to share the info about Abu Bakr and also terrorism issue in Indonesia. By the way, where do you come from?
Hey Folks..If you do not have hours to watch USA domestic matters now. Do not ever try to set your opinion on any one American speaker. It so goes that just everybody is speaking. And mostly speaking for the elections. Remember that's not the Voice of America
i fully support the middle east's right to choose a brutal theocratic democracy over a brutal secular dictator.
An interesting topic. Why not pose the question to the DCIA ?
Secular despots are less dangerous than religious despots.
They only last a generation or two while the theocratic fanatics can go one for centuries.
Never put those in power who believe they are God's Eternal Sword on Earth because they never stop chopping.
Secular ones are just too busy in being the opposition for their only concept of democracy is to oppose (they have not grown into the next several steps of bringing solutions and off course further off to bring those solutions into action). Religion and a promise of a place in heaven and a threat of being in sin brings in a more immediate and -unfortunately- united participation hereabouts. Days of the fear of sword is diluted if you turn a religion from a belief into a trend or fashion. All religions certainly have the infrastructure for that purpose. And if you also cut this FLOCK of others you have all the votes you need in democracy.
Religion is man's corruption of God's spirituality done to enslave other men.
Islamist dictatorship or secular dictatorship, the key word is dictatorship. All those moralists who blamed the oppressive nature of Arab regimes on US support for them, take notice. IT'S THE ONLY KIND OF REGIME THEY'RE CAPABLE OF!
Neither
The question should be, should we oppose them now while they are lying to us that they want democracy, or later when we see the fruits of failed "Islamic Democracy". Hint: Political Islam is not and never will be democracy.
You can't have enlightened democracy in a theocracy. Only 4th graders and the Middle East think democracy means "majority rules". Blasphemy laws are inherently unjust. There's no room for compromise.
My dear fellow......Islam is a totalitarian philosophy masquerading as a religion. To understand the political nature of Islam you need to become familiar with Islamic jurisprudence, ahadith and the literature produced by Bulkhari as well as other credible Islamic scholars. You will also need to stop drinking the kool aid served at your local mosque or Madrass. Good luck.
Religion has no place in politics, and vice versa. The biggest problem with Islam is that it is both a political and a religious system. There's another article today on CNN about a woman who is Mormon but voting for Obama, and that is just as wrong. Please shut up, Farheed. There is no excuse for Islam tring to be a political system, and trying to expand as a religion by creating a political hegemony. You keep writing articles as if this were normal and acceptable, but it is a perversion of religion, as has been demonstrated by over 1000 years of attempted conquest and civil war.
Your comments have no factual basis, what example do you have to show from history, here are a few first look up The Muslim Rule of Spain 711–1492; then look up The Spanish Inquisitions, you will know how Muslim treat follower of other religions under its rule and how does Christianity compared, The fact that Christians were able to throw their weight after 700 years of Muslim rule in Portugal and Spain speaking abound of evidence that you are wrong. Nine hundred years of Muslim rule in India, still Hindu religion is thriving there and Indian Hindus are still thriving to spit hatred of Ismam. Now thing of Inquisitions, if Muslim have approached that way there would not be a single Non-Muslim have left in India and their would not have been any Spanish Inquisition as in Spain there are almost no Muslim was left. The present Muslim population is of migrants during colonial rule over North Africa not from the decendents of rulers.
Fareed has not a clue. The only problem with Islam is it's leaders, they all dream of conquest and domination. From Saudi Whahabi clerics, to Pakistani madrassa leaders, to Mulim Brotherhood in Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc. This is a "Clash of Civilizations"
Former AIPAC Board Member
"Political Islam!" No such thing. You cannot expect non-Muslims who live in Islamic countries to live by laws based on the Koran. The only way Islamic countries will get out of the 16th century is when they realize that civil laws trump religious law everytime. 10 million Coptic Christians in Egypt DO NOT have to follow laws made by the Egyptian Parliment based on the Koran. They have no obligation to follow those laws. They arn't Muslim, so don't make them follow Islamic laws. Political Islam.......no Political Christianity...No.....Political Judism...No.....No No No....not everyone follows those religions.
There is a lot of aspiration but no real democracies in any Arab or Islamic country. That simply does not exist.
These countries are either dictatorships, theocracies, kingdoms, tribalism, emirates or no-man's-lands. They promote hate towards the US and Israel b/c these regimes represent a balance of power they don't want to share. Losing power is their ultimate fear and they will do and say whatever it takes to stay in power. Even after a bloody revolution the outcome is a corrupt form of 'religion-based-democracy' or a weak republic or a lingering civil war.
or Islamic Dictators ?
Islam BS should not be here at all. They are not our friend nor do they want to be. Blow them out of the USA all together. Islam is not welcome in the USA, they should not enjoy our freedoms and try inflict their BS on us. Get them out.
Can't we have both?
The problem is Both forms of Leadership fail for Islam. One relies on Imans to create the rules for them to follow, the other is a Dictator who keeps his people down. BOTH Blame America and the West for keeping them down. The problem is that THEIR Religion doesnt allow them to advance into Modern Times. They are living in the 21st Century but governed by 3rd Century rules.
Until they learn to adapt they will never stop hating the West and America.
Oh Fareed, they let you have your job back after that plagerism fiasco? Wow, journalism really doesn't have any ethics anymore.
Elections were held, legitimately. That is what we have always said we want and it is what we espouse. Whether we like it or not, they are the elected leaders of the Egyptian people. If we treat them as pariahs, the Egyptian people have every reason to not believe a word we say about democracy...actually, we would have no reason to believe a word we say about democracy. Their actions, as ours, will speak far louder than words. They will do what they feel is in the best interest of the Egyptian people. We will do what we feel is in the best interest of the American people. If they overlap in peace and harmony, great. If they don't, we and they, will have to figure out how to live cordially, but apart. The Cold War is over, we don't need proxies in the Middle East. If you remember, Egypt at one time was aligned with the old Soviet Union. They have more recently been our more or less allies. What they become in the future will be impacted to a great extent of how we honor the Egyptian peoples choices. We don't have love it, we don't even have to like it, but we do have to respect it. No different than what we expect for ourselves. If you watch the presidential debates, people all over the world probably wonder how we manage to actually function...:)
I take a pragmatic view. Elected Islamic governments are probably a necessary stage to the secularization of the Muslim world. After all, Europe did not simply jump straight out of the Dark Age into modern liberal democracies. Europe's path to secular liberalism took centuries to accomplish. Hopefully, since the recipe to modernization has already been discovered, the Muslim world will not take centuries to get to where Europe and East Asian democracies are today. But we still have to be patient.
Wishfull thinking. Religion and logic does not go together. There is no comparison between christanity and Islam. Christanity was advanced due to the fight of two strong powers. Henry the V and church. History of Turkey proves Islam takes over secularism.
To answer the question, "political Islam or secular dictators?"
Neither of these are good. If Islam is truly peaceful then having an Islamic government should bring peace to the People in which it's over. There should be happiness and health all throughout the Islamic world. No wahabiism or Islamic extremism, just the peaceful Islam that I hear so much about but rarely see.
As for secular dictators, North Korea and the Soviet Union has shown us that even under secular dictatorship, freedom is NOT granted. I won't say that Democracy is the best form of Gov. because there could be another form that we have not seen yet on this Earth but as for now, a Democratic Gov. is the ideal Gov. because freedom is granted.
I was never really a patriotic American but now that I'm older and I understand the things that occur in some other nations (dictatorships), I am so glad that I was born and raised in the USA.
Taken from the book; "Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat" of Dr. Peter Hammond
As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will for the most part be regarded as a "peace-loving" minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:
the U.S. — 0.6%; Australia — 1.5%; Canada – 1.9%; China — 1.8%; Italy — 1.5%; Norway — 1.8%.
At 2% – 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:
Denmark — 2%; Germany — 3.7%; the UK — 2.7%; Spain — 4%; Thailand — 4.6%.
From 5% +, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves – along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:
France — 8%;Philippines — 5%; Sweden — 5%; Switzerland — 4.3%;The Netherlands — 5.5%; Trinidad & Tobago — 5.8%.
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
-------------------------------------------------
When Muslims approach 10% + of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections in:
Guyana — 10%;India — 13.4%;Israel — 16%;Kenya — 10%;Russia — 15%.
After reaching 20% +, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:
Ethiopia — 32.8%.
At 40% +, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:
Bosnia — 40%;Chad — 53.1%;Lebanon — 59.7%.
From 60% +, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:
Albania — 70%;Malaysia — 60.4%;Qatar — 77.5%;Sudan — 70%.
After 80% +, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:
Bangladesh — 83%;Egypt — 90%;Gaza — 98.7%;Indonesia — 86.1%;Iran — 98%;Iraq — 97%;Jordan — 92%;Morocco — 98.7%;Pakistan — 97%;Palestine — 99%;Syria — 90%;Tajikistan — 90%;Turkey — 99.8%;UAE — 96%.
100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of Peace. Here there’s supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and Quran is the only word, such as in:
Afghanistan — 100%;Saudi Arabia — 100%;Somalia — 100%;Yemen — 100%.
Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% Muslim states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.
/
WOW.. i don't know who you are but if you didn't hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! im going to download that book ASAP.....
Well quoted
No matter how secular the muslim candidate says he or she is IT IS A LIE.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there is no such thing ..... it is a double negative just look at the middle east as of today Egypt is under muslim brotherhood control, Libya under radical muslim control... the whole middle east is oozing of radical Islamic re theoretic because of weak foreign policy we are heading for a full blown world war that is truly biblical..
Muslims – Islamists are isoliative at baseline. The theological ideology does not allow integration into other cultures until these other cultures convert to Islam. Anyone who is a Muslim is screwed.
Kevin criminals do not represent any religion, and islam is lastest testament, believe or not
Written by a man not God
Opposing them is not the issue.
The issue is........does the religion simply not allow for any tolerance, anywhere it goes? Does that prevent any country under that religious control, from fostering democracy? Does that indeed, create a breeding ground for terror, instead?
I do not see, from my observations of how the religion is followed, that there is any way, to stop the violence. If you can show me how that can be accomplished, under that religion, please do so!
HONESTLY, this guy Mr. FAREED ZAKARIA must be the GREATEST TURNCOAT, PLAGIARIST JOURNALIST of all time !!!.
The more I read from my former countryman, the more I see his DISHONESTY and BLATANT desire to say anything as long as it helps him CLIMB THE LADDER.......
Mr. Zakaria had been a (somewhat) COVERT RADICAL ISLAMIC Supporter for decades and now months & weeks away from the Presidential elections he had been busy BURNISHING HIS CREDENTIALS to land the job of the next US. SEC. OF STATE (by Hook or Crook!) which President is supposedly contemplating.
BUT, afterall he can't keep his ISLAMIC STRIPES covered for too long and so here comes this article in support of Political Islam, and trashing American supported SECULAR rulers....yes, dictators (The MUslim world knows no better!).
And why did I say that he was a TURNCOAT journalist.
Here's what he had ASTOUNDINGLY said only last year; I quote:
"The Danger comes from us (the US) and NOT them (Al-Qaeda & Muslim radicals). Ref: Reflections on 9/11 and its Aftermath” CNN-GPS Sept 9th, 2011.
GOD SAVE AMERICA if this man were to become the next US. Sec. of State!
Definitely we should not oppose them, because if they suceed in reconciling Islam with democracy, that will benefit world peace, and will bring prosperity to their own people, but we should also see that they bring important changes in Islam and their own society by giving equal rights to their women in all aspects.
Religion; islam, christianity,, etc should never be the basis for government.
I don't believe that any Political Islamic government can ever truly be deomcratic. Political Islam is the correct term used here. Islam is not a religion becuase it is a Political system that has religious overttones.
Look Political Islam is just not ideologically suited or capable of conforming itself with Democracy and freedom of thought, Freedom of Speech, and Freedom of Religion, free analytical thinking, etc.,....
Because of this I am lead to the next point historical:
I am afraid that eventually we will have to do what Ferdinand and Isabella did to the political islamist of their day when they finally re-conqured the Iberian Peninsula from political islam. We'll have to force political islam and it's members out of our countries and place them back to where they came from, the middle east. This may also necessitate the invasion of Saudi Arabia and dethrowning the rullers of the Ariabian Peninsula. It may involve the removal of all islamic states on the face of the earth.
Mustafa Attaturk tried to reform political islam and look at Turkey today? Back to political, radical, islam.
(As a side note) -
The military members of the Mustafa Attaturk Kamala group in Turkey need to overthrow the government of Turkey again to reverse Turkey's government slide into political, radical islam).
What I am saying is very radical to most people. But those who do not know history are bound to repeat it. And history does have a way of repeating itself. I'm affraid that political islamic muslims are pushing the entire world to extreme measurea and positions because of there actions.
Ever hear of a moderate muslim? Neither have I because "THEY DON'T EXIST".
A real Kafir - and Proud of it!