"Fareed Zakaria GPS," Sundays at 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. ET.
Fareed Zakaria speaks with Ronald DePinho, president of the world’s largest cancer center, MD Anderson in Houston, about the future of cancer research, and whether a cure is within reach. This is an edited version of his interview on Global Public Square.
You believe that we are at a point where we could actually finally cure cancer?
I think we’re at a major turning point in the history of cancer medicine where we have a very deep understanding of how it comes about, and, if it is established, how to deal with it, and we have game-changing technological advances that allow us to do much better care, accurate care, of cancer patients.
What is the game-changing technology? What’s happened? You say this has happened, really, in the last five years.
Well, there have been major events. And what’s unusual about this period in science history, is that it’s occurred in a narrow window and across a very broad front. So it’s not one technology. It’s the fact that we can sequence genomes, the entire genome, your entire tumor profile, in a few hours for a few hundred dollars – what took billions of dollars and a decade. We have the ability to analyze those data through very sophisticated computational structures and artificial intelligence.
Now I think all understand that cancer is not one thing. So you’ve actually identified the 10 most important cancers that you believe can be overcome in the way you just described, either through early detection, aggressive treatment, so that they will not be life-threatening. Give me an example of a cancer that you believe can be essentially cured this way.
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Well, I'll even give you just one project and one major cancer. The 800 pound gorilla is lung cancer. We have 170,000 deaths in this country, in the United States, each and every year. We have the ability to detect those cancers earlier now, through non-invasive imaging. So if we screen all heavy smokers, we know that we can reduce mortality by 20 percent by just catching the cancer earlier. That is 30,000 lives per year. It’s a significant number. So in order to have that occur and occur in a practical way, one needs to identify, amongst the 94 million former and current smokers, who should we screen? We can’t screen everyone. It’s not economically feasible. But if we had a risk model to say these are the few million that are knocking at cancer's door, then those individuals can be enlisted into imaging.
The holy grail for cancer would be to trigger the body’s own immune system to fight off the cancer, so that you somehow stimulate the antibodies in a way that that happens. Are we close to that?
Well, I’d say that that ship has already arrived. So I’d say the most exciting advance, to my thinking, over the last decade, has been our ability to harness the power of the immune system to fight cancer. Cancer is essentially foreign, because it’s different from what we were born with. So it has a different genetics. So it should be recognized as different. Yet it’s stealth from the immune system. And an investigator here, at MD Anderson who’s chair of immunology, Jim Allison, discovered how that occurs. The cancer puts the brakes on the immune system.
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So we developed a drug against that break, a monkey wrench for that break, and unleashed the power of the immune system. And 24 percent of patients with advanced melanoma, a very lethal skin cancer, appear to be cured now.
You’re looking at the possibility of actually curing cancer? You have the knowledge, you have new technologies, computing power, artificial intelligence. What you need is money, federal investment. Are you getting the kind of federal investment in basic research that you think we need at this point?
The answer is absolutely not. I mean we have a humanitarian crisis. We have the ability to act on this. But we’re [resource depleted] as a community. So there’s been a 19 percent decline in NIH funding over the last 10 years in real dollars. This is significant, precisely at a time when we have an increased incidence of major diseases, including cancer, Alzheimer’s, heart disease, diabetes. And so you’re on a sinking ship. And what you're doing is you're trying to slow the rate of sinking through efficiencies and managing the system.
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Don't believe it...there's no money in a cure.
Treatment is more profitable than a cure.
No money in a cure? Check out Tarceva, a genome-targeted drug - $6500/month, and the patient must take it for the rest of their life. And it's not even a cure, just a palliative treatment that might shrink a lung cancer tumor, but might not, and might lose it's effectiveness.
That's what he means. There is no money in a cure. The money is in treatments, like you describe. If they cure the disease they can not longer treat you for it.
And well, how can you cure something that happens naturaly 24/7 in your body?
Yeah, a cure would cost the public a ridiculous amount of money if there ever is one so, I bet they'll figure out a way to make it so that you could take a medicine and get even more ill from the medicine almost like chemothe- oh.
quit lieing and seek help there has been cancer cures and the goverment wouldnt release them
And your evidence of that is...?
To those skeptics who think "modern medicine" does not operate almost entirely out of the profit motive this book is a good start: http://homeofallspiritualsolutions.blogspot.com/2009/06/racketeering-in-medicine-suppression-of_9958.html ... Also Dr. Lorraine Day's site: http://www.drday.com/ ... Yeh I know there are those among you who will ALWAYS find a good excuse for Big Pharma but for those who are left and open minded-cancer can be cured with alternative methods without ruining the bodies immune system like conventional medicine does. My nephew is cancer free after only 3 months using bio-oxidative and natural therapies...so in my opinion skeptics be damned!!
I was shocked to hear embellishment from the head of the world's largest cancer center. What a cheaper genome sequencing capability has to do with tweaking body's immune system to "Cure Cancer"? Virtually nothing. What genome sequencing has revealed is that cancer is a complex collection several genetic diseases and that the genetic lesions are unique in each patient. Yes, one can get their genome sequenced for $1,000, but what you do with the ocean of data? We just don't have means to translate this data into clinically usable therapies. Once every decade or two someone gets to the TV and claims we have cancer cure in hands; remember 1970's immunotherapy claims which turned out bogus?
Your comment is kind of weird because the answer to your gaping question is there in your own words. Genome sequencing is relevant BECAUSE cancer is actually a large set of genetically different diseases among different people. I almost feel silly for having to explain this, but you would want to do a full genome sequence to find out exactly which of those types of cancer a person has. You can sequence the cancer cells to determine the exact nature of a person's disease, or you can sequence the person's normal cells to find genes known to be associated with certain types of cancer.
Mr. DePinho you're all wet. I have a family history of Ca on both sides, smoked for 30 years, and volunteered for a non-invasive imaging study protocol at the University Hospital in Cleveland, and WAS TURNED DOWN. Why? Because I had stopped smoking over 15 years ago. They wanted recent quitters. With requirements like these, how do researchers ever expect to determine what the cohort of smokers or at-risk adults will benefit from screening????
Guess what! I've got a form of Leukemia that I would have died from over a decade ago. But, being diagnosed 14 months ago, I am fortunate enough to be able to take a chemo pill that has now put me in remission! My chromosomes have now returned to normal. Granted, I am not "cured". I will have to take those pills the rest of my life. But... I'm alive. I am well. And I am going to die of something else besides my cancer! So for all you naysayers, I say Pfffft!
Wheatgrass juice is the opposite of cancer.
I have pancreatic cancer for which there is no cure nor chance of remission and I would take a chemo pill just to stay alive if they would come up with one.
Government and Foundation funded research is looking for CURES.
Pharma funded research is looking for TREATMENTS.
It is too bad the pharma industry has the best scientists. That's why we have so many effective treatments and no cures.
Read the story of Dr Burzynski. It seems that a cure for cancer has been around for many decades. However, powerful business groups have made every effort to stop this from being available to society. www. burzynskiclinic. com
Burzynski is basically a scam artist. Yes, he has been using his "antineoplaston" therapy for decades... and yet he has not completed a phase III trial (despite being approved for it), and he doesn't even complete or publish the results of his smaller phase II trials. There is NO evidence that his therapy works, and the only reason he can legally perform it is because he keeps registering groups of patients as "trials" (and yet he charges them tens of thousands of dollars to take part in a "trial").
There are really only two possibilities here. Either Burzynski's treatment doesn't work, and he is pulling these tricks so he can sell it anyway, or it DOES work and he is hiding the evidence of it... why? So other doctors won't know that it works, and Bursynski can have a monopoly on it?
I love hearing these comments about government and big business preventing a cure, since there is no money in it for them. Absurd. A "cure" for cancer (or more appropriately named, a "permanent treatment") is something that would award Nobel prizes and all sorts of humanitarian accolades and awards... never mind changing the history of human-kind. Imagine being the scientist, pharmaceutical, or government responsible for "the cure." The problem is simple, there is a lack of coordination (funding and research) among the appropriate groups to push this through.
The problems are technical. You are trying to find and kill cells that are subtly different from the body's healthy cells.Coordination has nothing to do with it.
The problem is all the research money is at Big Pharma, and they have no incentive to find a cure, only treatments. Only Govt and Academia have incentive to find a cure, but they are sadly underfunded.
We were very impressed with your interview. However, it seems that you concentrated on lung cancer due mostly to people who smoke. We know that treating lung cancer is a big priority because of the cost of treatment.
However, there are so many people who develop cancer "just because," including me.
Wouldn't it have been better to concentrate on those cancers that develop without any life-style behaviors causing it?
Lung cancer can be prevented if only people would change their habits.
It just rubs me the wrong way that there is so much emphasis put on those cancers that are due to life-stye behaviors, while there are people with cancers, especially in children, that "just happen."
It was just one of the cancers he was talking about. They are actually going really aggressive against 10 cancers. http://cancermoonshots.org/ I think he just used Lung Cancer as an example in the article. I loved MD Anderson though so I may be biased it was the only place it felt like they treated you as a person and a patient at the same time. However I do agree with you about the childhood cancer issue. 2 new treatments in 20 years? When you have 5 or so a year for adults.
Lung cancer is not only caused by smoking. It has a lot of different causes, which should not be a surprise given that our lungs are exposed to everything in the air all day long.
many...many people get lung cancer who have never smoked
NO, they don't want to cure us , unless we can pay a fortune and get them nice and rich. So you get your health back and they get rich. NO NO NO. They don't want to cure us, just keep us alive and tortured.
Ironically, we could compare what you just said with the concept of life in the biological view, philosophical view, and intellectual view. In other words, profound.
Betty:
:):)
YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!!
I quit smoking 2 packs a day 13 years ago. So far my lungs are clear, just checked 6 mounths ago.
I pray you will continue to have good results.
Reblogged this on bacvollife.
Pharma is not interested in a cure. They only want to treat symptoms. If you're cured, they lose a patient and decades worth of drug sales to that patient. Cancer is the biggest medical scam ever, there is too much money to be had in trials, research and drugs.
Why is the most natural and effective form of cancer medicine, Tetrahydrocannabinol, not mentioned in this article?
Oh thats right, the Federal Government and Big Pharma don't want the United States citizens to know what the actual cure for cancer is: THC, or Tetrahydrocannabinol. They really don't want people growing the cure in their backyard because that would cut into their profit margin. Afterall, THC is the resin that grows on the female plant, research and studies have proven that THC and the many cannabinoids in it cause cancer cells to destroy themselves in a process called Auphogy.
The cure for cancer exists. Its THC. The only thing you need is a couple lbs of high quality marijuana to provide you with an ample amount of pure THC. Placing a pea sized amount of pure THC on your finger and eating it everyday will cure anyone of cancer in a matter of months. This is why it is ILLEGAL to grow marijuana. Try growing some marijuana plants and your house will be repossesed and you will be throw in prison.
Thanks Federal Government and Big Pharma. Keep making billions off keeping people sick.
The information is out there.
You can't be serious... Pot cures cancer? OH, and THIS is why its illegal? So big Biz and Govt can make more money on sick people? ok, i got it now. LOL, thanks for the laugh... Its been a while since I've heard something so profoundly stupid.
No, it is because THC is, at best, a very poor treatment. If it worked, pharma companies would be making money selling THC. Cancer patients need something that will kill their tumors before their tumors kill them, not something that will delay their tumors killing them by a month or two. In addition, patients don't like the psychoactive side effects. Maybe certain synthetic cannabinoids will help. Their is a load of research on this, and it all says the same thing: maybe by studying this stuff we can figure out a way to fight cancer with cannabinoid drugs.
Don't believe the marijuana propaganda: smoking pot will not save you from dying from cancer. Sorry, but it will never happen. THC is a crappy tumor suppressor.
Marijuana may not kill cancer cells but it sure makes going through months of chemo easier because it helps relieve the nausea incredibly! For this reason alone the Federal Govt should legalize it. The 'synthetic' Marinol drug does not supply the same benefit.
Correction* My previous post had a spelling error. "autophagy" should replace "Auphogy" in my previous post.
Right on point Dee and Lisa!!
I am totally amazed by the super high level of misinformation that has been expressed in these comments. Cancer is a very serious disease yet it seems much of the population has gone to La La land to get their information on it. I sincerely hope their ignorance does not harm those in their circles who will be or have been diagnosed with cancer. Willful ignorance is our biggest and most dangerous health threat. And spreading this disinformation is an act of supreme hate.
The dirty truth here is that, so far, while a lot of scientific progress has been made in understanding cancer, cancer treatment is nothing more than more sophisticated, refined versions of methods to kill rapidly multiplying cells that have been around since the 1910's and developed through trial and error in animals and patients. Great progress has been made in early detection and in prevention, but the latter is mostly lifestyle and largely ignored by the people who were not already living healthy, anyway.
I fear for a day when we cure all diseases.
Scientists somehow have to link diabetes, cancer research to islamic terrorism. Then the funding would pour in by U.S govt. Homeland security, 2 wars, intelliegence expansion costs U.S probably 3 to 4 trillion dollars. Those money is unlimited.
Brilliant! Just call cancer a terrorist plot to take away our freedom, and VOILA! Billions in funding overnight. .....
So sad, but so true...
If they cure cancer then Social Security would go broke.
The U.S. and any other government are betting that you pay into their programs but die before you collect you first check.
As long as cancer continues to occur (which it always will) there WILL be lots of money in a cure. In fact, people will pay MORE for an effective cure than they will for an ineffective treatment. Indeed, the way health care reform is going, we will soon stop paying for treatments unless they actually work in a cost effective way. This conspiracy theory nonsense is, well...nonsense. In order to suppress a cure, you'd have to find hundreds of scientists willing to go along. Won't happen. The CEO of big pharmaceutical company MIGHT want to suppress a cure, but he'd never convince his scientists to go along. We scientists are in it for the thrill of progress and accomplishment, not the money. A cure for cancer is the personal goal of every scientist in the field. No amount of money would stop it from becoming public,
Sid
As far as I am concerned, the very best cure for cancer is simply removing the cancerous cells. All you have to do then is let the cells grow back, or replace them with better ones. It is a bit of a mechanic's approach, but as far as I know it never fails.
We might like to think we are........but the truth is, we will always encounter something new, that tries to keep the overpopulation of our species, in check.
My God these conspiracy theorists are totally ridiculous. There is no "cure" for cancer yet but we are moving very quickly on many fronts. There is no business or government conspiracy to hide the cancer cure so "corporate hospitals" can make more money. Settle down and go back to reading and studying Alinsky and Marx while you pleasure yourself to online videos.
As a research professor of medicine I can say beyond doubt the "Cure" WILL BE FOUND within the next 10-15 years. However, the "Cure" will involve personalized gene therapy to enhance the immune system and mark the cancer cells combined with 'smart bomb' chemotherapy using nanotechnology and viral vectors to deliver targeted poison directly into the cancer cells. Anyone who thinks they are "hiding" this cure in order to make money by death and pain is a total idiot. This therapy is going to be HORRIBLY expensive and dying people will be happy to pay the piper. These anti-capitalist morons know little more about scientific disciplines such as economics or medicine than they do about fornicating- having almost no experience in any such activity.
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everyone's complaining in these comments is doing absolutely nothing to help cure cancer.
The closest thing to a cure right now is at University of Pennsylvania and Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. The CTL019 trial uses gene therapy reprogram a person's own T-cells to attack B-cells, so this therapy works against B-cell leukemias and lymphomas. A half dozen terminal patients have been in remission for as long as 2 years and counting. UPENN sold the right s to Novartis to ramp up production of the modified T-cells. In a few years, we will probably see T-cell modification plants next to several hospitals.
When the President of the world’s largest cancer center states, “Cancer is essentially foreign, because it’s different from what we were born with”, its time for us to us reflect seriously on that comment. Any takers who would try to explain how this concept applies to newborns with one of the life threatening or fatal newborn or childhood cancers? In fairness to Mr DePinho, he should be given the opportunity to respond to his assertion when seen from this reality. Perhaps its just another paradox in the present cancer paradigm? Don’t fool yourself, (or worse yet let yourself be fooled), the risk of being diagnosed with cancer is present from conception to death and this risk increases progressively and at times exponentially with each birthday. A tough concept to grasp but cancer isn't foreign
M. D. Anderson Cancer and Research Center of Houston, Tx., the largest in the world, has already announced they will have cures for 8 different cancers within 5 to 10 years. They are in their pipeline. Cancer blocks the immune system. Unlocking the immune system from this block seems to be key. Now they have to find the key. I am hopeful.
The drug companies don't want to cure cancer since they make 200 billion /yr profit from traditional chemo. This is a national scandal, and disgrace. Millions die needlesly as new therapies are branded quackery by big pharma or not given full funding to be widely dispersed. The war on cancer started in the 70's and since that time the medical industrial complex has been given 100's of billion of tax dollars to find a cure, yet in some cancers such as lung and pancreatic the needle has moved just slightly from where it was prior to this war's start. The problem is that wall st cares more about profit than the health of Americans. Fareed should investigate this national scam!
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