By Global Public Square staff
North Korea's nuclear test drew the usual reprimands from world leaders. President Obama promised swift and credible action. We know what this is likely to mean – more sanctions and greater isolation for Pyongyang.
But what if the answer should really be the opposite? What if the best way to change North Korea is more commerce and communication with it rather than less?
If you look at examples of how we deal with other countries, sanctions rarely work. In Cuba, 54 years of sanctions have kept the Castros in power while its citizens have suffered. They remain isolated with the lowest rate of Internet penetration in the entire western hemisphere.
In Iran, unprecedented sanctions have been in place for years, but there is no clear sign that the real powers that be, the Mullahs, are in peril. In Syria, no amount of pressure has had any impact on Bashar al-Assad's brutality.
More from GPS: North Korea dance begins again
Now, if you ask Asian diplomats, they will point to Myanmar as embodying the opposite approach. Asian countries traded with Myanmar, invited it to diplomatic gatherings and, over time, persuaded the military junta to open itself up, both domestically and to the world.
There's a pattern in the last two decades of negotiations with North Korea. First comes a missile test, closely followed by a nuclear test, global sanctions, then some talk of rapprochement and, then, back to square one – more provocations.
All the while, the people of North Korea have suffered. In the 1990s, an estimated 2 million people died in a nationwide famine. North Koreans have almost no contact with the outside world. Less than 10 percent of them even have mobile phones, and those are not allowed to call outside the country. Per capita income is estimated to be somewhere around $1,000 a year, about 1/20 of that in neighboring South Korea. The best path to open up with North Korea might be trade deals, travel programs. We could start with student exchange programs.
About a decade ago, Syracuse University started research collaboration with North Korea’s Kim Chaek University of Technology. The partnership has led to the creation of North Korea's first digital library. Technology from that partnership enabled the New York Philharmonic to broadcast its recent concert in Pyongyang.
We might need more of these partnerships, not fewer. Google's founder, Eric Schmidt, recently visited North Korea, and we may need more such trips by more entrepreneurs like him.
In the very short run, they do give the regime some credibility, but in the long run, capitalism and commerce are the assets of modernity that always wear down dictatorships.
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Our current policy or rather the politics of hunger toward North Korea is stupidity at it's very worst! We need to engage North Korea in talks and increase trade with them instead of this idiot policy of trying to starve these people into submission! The very same holds true for Cuba, too!
Although this seems as if it would practical, it would have to be an incredibly slow and elongated process. I doubt their officials would welcome such rapid change. Opening up to them could trigger an even more drastic response from North Korea.
Indeed, first approaches can be made on many levels. Sports and cultural events, expositions and other fairs do promote relationships between peoples. The North Koreans will be made aware of the opportunities in the outside world and this might persuade the leadership to make political reforms. It will take decades for North Korea to make progress. It is much worse off than East Germany before the fall of the Berlin Wall.
I don't have much regard for what you've said. I consider it stupid to enter into dialogue with a country that is so devoid of trustworthiness. Bill Clinton entered into an agreement with North Korea, in the process providing that country with food aid and other assistance provided they suspended their nuclear programme. They did for a while then secretly continued, Yet even after Clinton discovered that North Korea had reneged on their agreement he allow it to continue receiving aid. Evidently Clinton is equally lacking in principle and thus not anger when cheated. North Korea should be squeezed into capitulating. Half-baked measure like those of Clinton fail.
You're wrong Sir. Re-engaging in talks with NK is the only feasible way to improve relations and reduce hostility. let's face it, NK is only about half a century old. We're over 300 years old and there are alot more bad things that have been committed by our government than what's been committed by NK. Our history aint been that rosy to begin with. As I said before, as the leader of the free world and home to the United Nations, it becomes our obligation, duty and responsibility to do whatever it takes to improve relations with NK, minus threats and sanctions...been there, done that. Its time for plan B.
Yes, President Clinton tried but the NK government went back to its old ways of defiance, enriching uranium and so on but what do you expect when we refuse to change our policy of total isolation, military provacation and intimidation on NK's borders? I believe its time we forget our pride and get Mr. Kerry to be the first U.S. Secretary of State to visit NK. Mrs. Clinton's visit to Myanmar a year ago was nice but it would have been more productive had that visit been to NK. We've tried isolation, sanctions and intimidation to no avail. I say its time for plan B. Finally, I beliebve your enemy is only your enemy until you shake hands. Its time for open dialogue.
why should punish helpless people for the sins of their leaders? the leaders are well fed and don't feel the sanctions
@Blah Blah the Wheels off Your Trailer
100% agree with your thoughts but I do have to correct you on 1 thing...We are not over 300 years old. Technically we were not officially independent and recognized as U.S.A. from Great Britain until 1783 with the Treaty of Paris. That would make us about 230 years old. At best, we could argue that the U.S.A was "legit" in 1776 with the Declaration of Independence. Making us 237 years old.
To paraphrase Dr. Zakaria, how is your strategy working out so far? We engaged in dialogue and trade, visits, etc. with the Evil Empire and it came down. We ostracized Cuba and North Korea for decades and it has had exactly the opposite effect. You really want to continue doubling down on stupidity?
It is all well and good to want to open dialogues with NK, to offer aid and try to come to some kind of understanding. However, what's to say that they will show any sort of trust worthiness in return. Continued nuclear research will only become harder for discovery, their military will still operate under the same plan of attack as before, and the moment NK feels any sort of slight, it will all start again. This country will act as spoiled brat, getting an inch and demanding a mile, followed by a nuclear hissy fit when it doesn't get its way. Kim Jung Un was raised to believe he deserved more, as he will raise his children to believe as well. Maybe if we stopped giving them publicity everytime they do something, NK will settle back down. I'm not saying that the country should ignore their threats, just stop publicizing it.
RE. Staff article. Very interesting idea. General sanctions punish the wrong people, and they reinforce the leadership's paranoia.
There is also the opposite approach, making the sanctions specific to sensitive technologies.
Can't dialogue with a ZombieFish
NK is a ZombieFish.
Fish rots at head.
Head will not die.
Before entire body rots...cut off head..attach new head.
Otherwise the ZombieFish starts to bite once its Nuclear Teeth have grown in.
"Increase trade"?? That's what the Clinton Vision proposed when it implemented free trade with China. Not only have the Chinese taken this opportunity to strengthen their military and political influence, 7 years later the U.S. economy imploded and the world economy followed... NOT a good strategy.
North Korea could take many measures to feed their people now – like decreasing their enamor with nukes & military might and maybe spending those resources on feeding their people. You think they would do something different with MORE food and money?
Agree. It is the worst mistake of US diplomatic policies in the past three decades to assume this,
"capitalism and commerce are the assets of modernity that always wear down dictatorships."
Economic improvement in China has not and will not shake dictatorship in China, or its affiliated
dictatorship regimes as North Korea.
Let us recall one of the older quotes from communist idealogs: "the capitalists will sell us the rope we will eventually hang them with." These people in NK, (and I am afraid, in a very hidden way, China) are dyed in the wool, shell back STALINISTS. Their modification of the above quote would be: "Let's get the capitalist to GIVE us the rope we will eventually hang them with." Let us never forget that through lend lease we assisted Stalin in building the largest land army on earth at the end of the second world war, and he started to turn it on us in China during the closing days of WWII and was frantically reinforcing the Red Army in Europe. Both actions were without consultation with western powers. The only thing that stopped him from using that army then and there was the fact that only the US had atomic weapons , which negated the usefulness of the "rope" we had "given" Stalin that he was going to hang us with.
Trade with China didn't tank our economy. The greed of our banks and mortgage lenders was the main cause of the recession.
Quigley: The U.S. has been trying, for decades, to engage the North Koreans in talks. Both South Korea and the U.S. have sent significant amounts of rice to N. Korea over the years.
An article on the internet today, but dated March 19, 2009, by the BBC (bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7947985) discusses the North Koreans refusing to accept food aid from the U.S. in early 2009, and the North Koreans then terminating the program by which the U.S. and U.S. were donating 500,000 metric tonnes of food to NK.
The U.S. is responsible for many foreign policy errors over the years, but the American approach to North Korea is not one of them.
We have been feeding them for years/decades. It doesn't work.
Pushing N Korea into a corner is counter productive. This is why the baby Kim's keep rattling their tales. We must learn to charm them into doing business with us as they imagine themselves truly respected on the world stage. It's possible..
So how do you suggest you reach out to a people who are indoctrinated from the crib to hate the U.S.? Who make school children beat toy U.S. soldiers? Or have a "Museum of American War Crimes"?
What North Korea needs is a serious wake. up call,something that will affect it's leaders,The times for talk and sanctions are over. They simply won't work. North Korea hates the U.S.and would never agree to any kind of trade or negotiations
The best way to deal with a spoiled brat, is to ignore his tantrums. Next time Dear Eater screams about destruction, change the topic about the Russian meteorite or the upcoming World Cup. If he is ignored long enough the North Korean leadership will crawl back to where it came.
Quig - You propose the N-Kia ? ?
The problem with not locking them down is they get more money.
See we don't really know anything about them. They genuinely could just be crazy. Thats the key point.
I agree with you about how if we got really involved economically with them it may open up their economy. BUT they could be crazy. So they may just go for nukes.
You need to realize something here. These are people who were raised in a very secluded environment. Look at times when that happens? Jihad camps? Environment has a lot to do with it. And North Korea was also.... mentally screwed over by the war. And those elders would all remember these things. Plus they have always lived in fear. Maybe its not perfect but the thing is our strategy seems to be going well. All we really have to do is have our missile defense better then their attack by a fair amount and also we need to keep them poor so they can't attack us like they state they want to.
Talks have not worked. We need to drop a couple low yield nukes on their missile and nuclear development sites. Then we should execute their leaders and free the people to enter the 21st century – can you say Seal Team 6 its party time?
ya totally!
exactly i think u are on to something!
"Per capita income is estimated to be somewhere around $1,000 a year"...how do you plan to "increase trade with them?" They have no money to buy anything, and they have nothing of value to sell anybody, other than selling nukes on the black market. How is this expanded trade going to work in your mind?
Actually it would be smarter to simply ignore them. Imagine that Kim does another thing - a nuclear test or rocket launch - and the World reaction is silence. No strong words, no condemnation, to demonstration of force like US/South Korean military drills, simply nothing. Not even press briefing by Victoria Nuland. Then what?
After a couple attempts Kim will realize that what he is doing is pointless. Because all what he is doing has only one goal in mind: to cause reaction from the US. He knows that US cannot do anything: all sanctions are already in place, and US is not in the position to start another war. New sanctions, condemnations, and hysteria Western media are completely harmless and is exactly what Kim wants because he can points his finger and say that "see these evil imperialists".
As is CNN's wont, the story us incomplete. The entire rest of the world trades with Cuba. Untold numbers of Europeans vacation there. Even our good friends from Canada are regulars there. North Korea's main trading partner is with the 2nd largest economy in the word : China. China also happens to trade a bit with the USA, as I recall. No, the problems Cuba and NorthKorea have are of their own making. Blaming the USA for their problems is an easy cheap shot that really doesn't require any thought. This likely explains why CNN's J School grads from Columbia U. wrote such a shallow article in the first place.
Yes, I agree
Yeah Quigley –spot on!... its the US starving these poor people! America forces this poor nation to build missiles instead of feeding its people! And the American bullies are preventing China from helping them too! America even forces China to give NK missile tech, Just like they strong armed the poor Pakistanis into selling NK nuclear tech!
Next the American Overlords will force a helpless NK to put that nuclear tech on those missiles and launch them at J apan or SK! yup its America's fault alright .........
Because a desperate starving nation is in the US's best interests as long as that nation is nuclear capable~!
I'd personally try bribing the cadre and military with very large sums of money to integrate with South Korea... if it works, it would be cheaper in the long run.
Money is kind of relative. If I had a million dollars and I lived in the USA I would not be very rich. If I had a million dollars and I lived in mexico? I'd be more rich right?
So if you live in a crazy dictatorship where laws don't apply to you personally because of who you are and you can basically probably do whatever you want would you really want to defect? Lets say you have no morals at all to make this argument.
Overcome with love and money, no revolution ? no takin it to the streets ? just a big happy family like the first tyrant ?
I tend to agree- sanctions( South Africa, Cuba et al) RARELY inconvienience the rulers as much the ruled!
After sanctions, I wouldn't want to be one of the elite, once the power structure collapses.
They drive the elites to extreme measures, and stress the social order.
Now if the social order is psychotic fantasy, little incremental effect occurs; however the psychotic eventually stumble to their doom.
These people hate the USA and all we stand for, you got to be kidding.They dream of killing us. Nice try tho.
Tell that to the former-Soviets.
Without US, the Whole World in danger.
Lol.
Then again, appeasing Hitler didn't turn out any better. As heartless as it sounds, until a more credible solution is found, it's better to have a starving hostile nation than a well-fed hostile nation.
The GOP plan: Start a war with NK (totally unfunded of course!!). Then get the poor people to fight/die in the war while giving the rich people "no bid contracts" (Haliburton). Then use NK's resources to pay for the war. And when the war is over NK will sell us cheap resources!!! Just like in Iraq!!!! Oh wait.............never mind.
That pretty much sounds like Obama's plan too. If you weren't such a partisan tool, you'd see it.
Start a war? Your ignorance is showing. There is and has been a state of war with NK. We have a cease fire NOT a peace treaty. WHY do you think there is a DMZ? Educate yourself before you open your mouth.
People always bring up that technicallity.... But if that's War, then me whistling is the same as a orchestra.
We are already at war with NK. Look at your history there was never a declaration of peace between the US and NK, just a cease-fire. This no GOP plan but the Dms plan of ignoring an issue hoping itll go away and everyone will love the US for letting them sit in their own filth sure as heck isnt going to work. For instance your Arab Spring will bring forward a whole host of new governments that will be even more violent and aggressive not only to the US but to the World as a whole. I know in the past the US has helped some dictators into power and some of these men did really bad things but the alternatives are usually much worse. At least the puppet leaders we could controll to some extent and at least the US has ethics, and beliefs that and I state "all men (yes this includes women) are created equal."
Containment is the only option. The world DOES have a dialog with the PRNK...they don't listen.
Sanctions DO work. Just like a virus – containment and vigilant observation. The biggest threat out of Cuba in the past 50 years has been contraband cigars and a few floating refugees. Otherwise they've been isolated.
China is a good example of trade and dialog. They have a stronger military due to free trade and they STILL push their agenda. When they get stronger, watch what they will do. Economic incentives and dialog have yet to deter this communist "dictatorship".
If North Korean policy now rests on the edge of insanity, do you really think more money and talk will change that? That's like giving a serial killer a Macy's card and a cell phone expecting them to go shopping, check in once in a while and "place nice". Everybody thinks money and talking will change things....
I'm sorry but there is only ONE way to deal with this now. Shoot down everything they launch. If possible blow it up on the launch pad. If we just sit back and knock everything out of the sky that they launch they will get the message. However, as long as that PANSY is on the White House learn to live with the insult and humiliation.
It's DPRK (Democratic People Republic of Korea) not PRNK.
As I read it PRNK is a joke, indicating NK is a PRC sock-puppet.
ergo a PRaNK
LNL,
NK different. China Rational. NK Not.
Starve them all and let China deal with them...............
We need to covertly kidnap a few dozen NK citizens from the major provinces and bring them to the U.S. Take them on a guided tour of grocery stores, all you can eat buffets, shopping malls and maybe a couple of comedy clubs.
Let them see how easy it is to travel from one state to another in a rented RV stopping at great restaurants along the way . Go to a congressman's office and cuss him out without being thrown in jail.
Then take them all back and see how long a revolt takes to happen.
Their peers will sell them out for an extra bag of groceries.
No longterm effect.
I'ave always said it about Cuba and it still holds true today. You can only undermine from within. Think about it Mr. Government, why do countries want us out? It's because we are undermining them from within.
DPRK is a small part of a bigger problem facing the world. If you look back at history and follow the time line to the present you will easily see that the issue isn't just DPRK, it is actually a small group of nations that have a similar interest in keeping the US out as a whole. China, Iran, and a supposed possibility of a few others have a great distrust for the USA and what we mean to do. Honestly as looking as an outsider point of view it makes perfect sense for nations like China to want to keep the US as distant as possible. This enables them to keep their "secrets" and not allow democracy to enter their land. So any means that the USA as a country has that would enable DPRK to open up to us would be thwarted by those lands that do not want us there. Any deals that we make will be underminded by the supporting coutries NK in quiet talks and secret aid to allow them to continue to do whatever they like, this is precisely why any UN Sanctions don't work. As much as it sucks, we as a giving nation are unable to help the victims in NK while those in power thrive.
With the recent release of the reports of the Chinese using organized cyer-terrorism against corporations in the US and Canada and elsewhere this seems like the best form of control that we have to use against NK. Technological warfare may at least buy some time but will not be a permanent answer to the issue.
Cuba was mentioned in an above reply, if my memory serves me right the US Govt tried to do a political coup there and failed, and now as was mentioned the nation is pretty much shut off. The biggest difference there is it is an Island, not a pennusila hanging off the right leg of an even larger issue like a skin tag, being quietly fed and supported and used as a puppet to deter the US.
I guess what I am trying to say is NK isn't the real issue, its a magic act, an illusion of China and a few other nations.Yes it is terrifying to think that they are getting closer to a deliverable nuke, but they aren't just building the technology, it is being fed to them in stages. Wake up people and see what is really going on around the world.
If China is driving NK behavior, and controlling NK actions, We got problems.
Need Proof, cause the action following this suggestion is another order of magnitude to the bad.
The problem is that the sanctions in place only hurt the average citizen, not the military or those in power. If anything it's giving the North Koreans a unified threat in the US . KJ Un can use this to show his people that the US is the bad guy and that he's trying to help them but the sanctions are the reason they are suffering. All of the sanctions and punitive measures haven't done much to deter their nuclear ambitions so maybe it's time for a new approach.
You right Poseidon sanctions do hurt the average people. But lets say we reversed basic sanctions like food and medicine. Do you think the NK leadership will turn around and give it to their people. No what will happen is that they may feed their army a little better and with the surplus from that they will sell it on the Global or Black market, which you just gave them larger access to, and use that money to advance their military agenda. Meanwhile they will continue to tell their people about the evil Americans and how the brave military is keeping the invaders at bay (which Canada they are still telling their people that they are at war with the US). So you peasants better work harder and starve more or the invaders wil kill you. Oh and NK is a workers paradise compared to the evil capitalistic pigs who will grind them into the mud. And the people will believe it because they dont have any way of knowing better nor will they ever know better because the govt' will prevent them from knowing as long as they possibly can.
They have rare earth minerals that would benefit the west. Trade in that area could spur some unique electronics. Their ability to do nuclear, also gives credence that others might benefit from such knowledge.
Little Kim is helping the US arms industry in a big way. The more he curses the more combat planes are being built, according to informed sources he is a heavy investor in the Boeing Corporation.
The author forgot about time we enacted a total blocade of Cuba, and drove out the missles. A total blockade of North Korea is implssible due to the Chinees border. But it would not hurt. And do not blame the U.S. for the food shortage in North Korea. Blame the DORK for allowing the food shortages to happen.
Eventually CHINA is going to get tired of having a loose cannon nuclear threat on its border and go in and remove the Kim family. Nothing short of removing the Kim Monarchy from power will do, and no one but China can do it. Mind you, China IS the country MOST under threat from those nut jobs masquerading as a country. If you don't believe THAT then you need to look at the long term history of that region, not merely it's post WW2 political alinements.
There are lots of options: Below are a few of my ideas.
Option 1) Enter into a ARMS race, Space race, or Mega High Rise Building Race. Maybe south Korea could start having quarterly or monthly rocket launches. Imagine having Towering HUGE robots walk the DMZ instead of Soldiers. Or build huge Towering Buildings along the boarder south Korean side of the DMZ. I might even consider building the worlds tallest building (500 stories) or high rise or tower along the coast so everyday North Koreans can see it. The name of the game is to bankrupt them.
Option 2) Invest heavily along the Chinese side of the boarder, to build up the night life with bright shinny colorful lights. Make their mouths slavate over the Chinese.
Option 3) On the announcement of a BIG event, force a major power outage. Or start forcing more frequent power outages.
The greatest fear governments of countries like Iran and North Korea have is that their people may be exposed to the outside world. TV, Radio, cell phones, the Internet. These things are more dangerous and effective then nucelar weapons. These leaders lay at in bed at night knowing they are gonners it their people knew what jerks they were.
OOOH OOOH I know how!!!! Stop feeding them and stop sending them money!
I don't think anyone can do much about North Korea, as long as China is propping them up and enabling them.
What an absord suggestion! Do you really know the North Korea? Your approach is reasoned by a commonsense of the normal society. But NK is not the country as you think. It is a den of wild animals. Totally different world.. There are only two options to deal with them: bomb or bilateral peace agreement with U.S.A. Nothing else is working.
Do you travel there often, Joe?
I am a ritired missionary in that region for many years...I have learned what's going on there..
I would agree with the article if it weren't for the complication of nuclear weapons proliferation. Sanctions are almost always counterproductive in terms of weakening dictators, but in this case they are developing and selling nuclear weapons tech.
If the U.W. were not so beholden to China, we could speak more authoritatively about this matter. Given that we've allowed ourselves to become so indebted to China, we must look the other way, while China supports the vile government and leadership of N. Korea.
Correction. That was supposed to read:
If the U.S. were not so beholden to China, we could speak more authoritatively about this matter. Given that we've allowed ourselves to become so indebted to China, we must look the other way, while China supports the vile government and leadership of N. Korea.
I've been saying for years that if we bombed the populace of these "rogue" countries with food and medicine instead of their militaries with incendiary devices that their people would love us, and they would take care of their own leaders.
I'm in support of feeding and helping the poor souls of N. Korea. I just don't want the supplies going to their military, the elite and the privileged–who live in comfort, while so many of their citizens starve and suffer.
I understand your compassion, but we tried so many ways to help those miserable people.. However, every time the NK regime intercepted goods and money from outside and use them for their military purposes.. Do not compare that regime with any others in this planet.
You realize is we open up to them then south korea is exposed, because south korea can't fight north korea and china.
South Korea, and its allies, must relentlessly in their promise of a swift counter nuclear missile attack – for any NK missile that heads into SK territory.
SK's previous leader made a tactical error by doing nothing after NK cowardly sunk SK's sub that killed 40+ marine soldiers. This served only to embolden these jaded NK Generals.
You got the right. Eye to eye, tooth to tooth will make NK not to behavior relentlessly.
Do you have any solid evidence to support your ' wild' guesswork that China is 'propping up' North Korea>
Unless there is proof, my wish is for Americans to start thinking for themselves, seek for more concrete info, and not rely on inform made by recalcitrant 'love China bashing' lying American journalists.
How do you deal with them??? DO not deal with them. They are not interested in being a apart of the world community. All they do is play these games and threaten the world. They do not care about their people who are starving to death. It is ridiculous that the world thinks they can talk with these people.
I very much like the idea proposed here, both on humanitarian and strategic grounds. Right now North Korean citizens have nothing. Except propaganda. They do not know what they are being deprived of. They dont know of the outside world and what citizens of other countries enjoy. They dont protest thier living conditions to thier government because they have no idea what they are being deprived of.
If we removed sanctions, improved commerece, raised thier standard of living significantly- they would be willing to confront thier leaders if there was danger of losing it. We would then have the North Korean government by the short and curlies-they would have to be be cooperative with the west in order for thier citizens to continue to enjoy thier improved living status, which would ultimately allow them to stay in power. And the whole world would be a safer place.
china sells a lot of product to nations around the world. If NK continues to destabilize that region, it can cut into Chinas bottom line. Maybe it's Chnas turn to police that region.
Now your drifting in the right direction!
Take the crimes that NK is committing to the World Court. Then have the judges issue a warrant for the arrest of the dictator. Send in Special Forces to take him into custody. If he resists- he dies. Do the same for Iran and Syria.
As long as it is a Chinese force that 'takes him in' this may work....they won't tolerate UN or SK or US forces in NK.
diplomacy does not work with despots like this north korean chap. black mail,,threats and nonsense are not diplomacy. eventually the north korean government will have to be taken down, the dynasty has to end, the north korean people deserve better.
I know a very effective way to deal with North Korea – their leader should be ridiculed for his bad haircut.
That, alone would take his attention away from the nuclear issue.
Great LULZ, but he has plenty of minions to attend to the Nukes.
Yes there are many ways that can bring a country to its knees, however what country really has the right to condemn another when they have their own problems and shortcomings to bear. I would rather suggest a true uniformity between free nations that includes trade, tourism, support in times of need. Leave any country that desires not to be a part of this unification to fend for itself, and if it threatens any unified nation without justification it would be dissolved or reprimanded by these united nations as a team. This way every nation has a free choice rather being intimidated into another countries ideas and cultural living style. Each nation would know what it can and cannot do with its limited power and make their choice with a clearer picture.
Sweet! Except your rational prescription implicitly presupposes rational actors.
NK elite are tyrannical, paranoid, and ruthless, projecting the worst of their fears onto peer nations, and projecting every harm they can get away with in their direction.
implicit assumption untrue, prescription fails. QED.
The US foreign policy is pathetic. Free trade should be opened with NK with neither government discouragement or encouragement. The only restriction should be war materials and nuclear materials. This would be a real incentive for NK to develop industries offering trade products and to show the benefits of unrestricted enterprise.
NK has to want trade. They ll gladly take anything given to them... operative word being "given". For NK to drop its guard it must control SK.....
What? you think this stand off is all America's doing? we fought a vicious war in Vietnam and today we trade openly with them...while we might not be the best of friends, we are moving in that direction.
All NK has to do is drop its guard, ask SK for help in infrastucture developement, they can keep the borders..Set up a joint watch dog commision to prevent corruption and exploitation on both sides.... Give the citizens of NK training wheels on trade, establishing property rights, and bring NK up as stably as possible... it can be done....look at how Germany reincorporated East Germany.
History has shown time and time again appeasement does not work. People never learn.
There are soo many people in this room who have no clue what goes on in the real world and that honest discourse is the answer to every problem, that every person in power if you appeal to their better nature that they will be reasonable. This is a farce and sadly people do not understand that. Every country and its leaders are only looking out for , at best, their individual countries interests. If these interests line up with others then, great, there is common ground for peoples to work together. But no 2 countries have all the same interests and there will always be some friction. North Korea is a country where the leaders interests are not even the interests of their people but their own private interests. They are worried about their people becoming too educated, they are worried about fellow leaders becoming too strong, they are worried about maintianing their status within their own world. You think there is political backstabbing and double deals going on in the Free World? North Korea is worse on a magnitude of order unlike you have ever seen. They need the US and allies to be demonized, it is that which allows them to maintain some image of stability amoung those in power because they need each other to keep the West at bay. Any aid that we give their people is warped to their own political image and they will continue along this path until the infighting amoung their power bases turns into outright civil war, or they strike outwards at their enemies to prevent this. If the US opens up trade (even restricted trade) that will only give them more access to money and Markets that they couldnt reace before to buy what they really want to buy. They will still continue to oppress their people severely and then take even bolder steps because when they were threatening to use nukes the world suddenly tripped over itself to give NK what they wanted. It is truely tragic what is happening to their people but unlike where forieng powers were able to decimate the Iraqi Armies under Saddam, or damage Gadafhi's forces NK is different in which they have an actual strong military and cannot be forcefully removed without a huge effort of men, equipment and resources.
I think they (NK) are preparing for war.
It would be better to start that process with Cuba, since their leaders are sane and rational. While Cuba would welcome some kind of closer ties, North Korea would see it as a trick, a ruse to get them to drop their guard, and flout it as a sign of 'western weakness' to their citizens. Then, after a year or two of sucking equipment, food and technical know-how, they would create another provocation and slam the borders shut again.
Should it be a sprint, or a marathon? Does your tactics change, when you are in a sprint vs. when you are in a marathon? What is more important, how fast you run the race, or being able to cross the finish line?
Love Fareed but this is irrelevant or DUMB!
We can foster relations at various echelons of NK society, however the elite is psychotic and firewalled from the rest of society.
Until the Nuke situation is dealt with, this stuff is nice, but irrelevant to the current crisis.
A Chinese Coup of NK, placing a Beijing Loyal puppet government is the only Nuke-Free cure with a long-term peace outcome.
The rest in the context of the crisis, is babble.
Ignore the fat pig. He is just a spoiled brat throwing a tantrum to get attention.
Push the big red button... Light em up...
It's like making first contact with a hostile alien species. You don't want to engage them in confrontation, you want to slowly learn their language and build a rapport. And don't forget the prime directive...
No different than our very own government is doing hear at home!!!!!!!!!
Is the United States going to get rid of their nuclear weapons? The United States is the only country that used nuclear weapons on civilians and threaten them by bombing people into the stone age.
First for jay_hawk, the U.S. decision to use TWO atomic bombs (because the first one did not get their attention) is WHY you are not living under the swastika or rising sun battle flag. Stop being an idiot. The idea that communicating and openness is the right path is exactly right. Sanctions are failed foreign policy.
So I wonder what sanctions are they talking about? North Korea declares that self-reliance is the cornerstone of its ideology! Good luck with your sanctions!
What we have tried hasn't worked. Let's try something different. Can't be any worse.
Oh, it's just so simple, isn't it? If only world leaders had thought of it first.
Myanmar wasn't threatening to use nuclear weapons.
The comparison to Myanmar is different in one respect the nuclear issue. The comparison is closer to Iran involving the same approach using sanctions and travel restictions
The only way to deal with little Kim, is a cruise missle right between the lookers.
Ignore them ! : File under "Insane Regime".
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If they ever launch a nuke, glaze them 100%, Done !
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Be sure that they clearly understand this.
Can't change a People unless they have access to the real World. With Today's technology and internet and twitter, etc. this is how you get your message to a hostile People. As long as we cut off North Korea from the real world the worse off the citizens will be and they'll never know why or the difference.
Education and exposer is the greatest leveler to tyranny and oppression.
Lift all sanctions on North Korea or impose sanctions on all countries that have nuclear weapons. Either give North Korea veto power at UN or abolish veto power of all countries that have nuclear weapons. To global public square staff to start writing similar articles such as "How to deal with all nuclear powers such as US, Russia, UK, France, Israel, Pakistan and India'? You all might lose your jobs for writing these articles but then so what? After all of you believe in global fairness. Don’t you?
Fair? I am not really interested in fairness when it comes to international diplomacy. Lets be real here. There are different levels of stability and responsibilty between governments of this world. North Korea runs their country more like a mafia family than a real government. A nation can collapse and those weapons can end up in the wrong hands, or that nation can sell them to enemies of governments who may not even be a nation, but a terrorist group. This is incrediblty unlikely with nations like China, or the United States. The more countries have nuclear weapons, the more likely an event like the one described above can happen.
Sounds like you support terrorism, even the state sponsored kind. It's good to know which side you are on.
I hate these arguments that "sanctions don't work." Bashar al Assad's economy has plummeted and desperation continues to fuel the violent struggle to unseat him. Cuba's economic shambles has left it utterly irrelevant. High prices led to the popular demonstrations/uprising in 2009 against Iran's government that left Ahmadinejad looking anemic on the world stage. Tell me again how "sanctions don't work." They work!
Just air-drop a few million smartphones and wait for the fun to happen...
Won't work, they have very little cell phone infrastructure. Heck, a nighttime satellite image shows a nation almost completely blacked out. Does that tell you anything??
I think we should give them all the nukes they want. Drop as many as Obama wants to get rid of and eliminate the problem. I feel that if/when they do perfect thier nuclear bomb programs they won't hesitate to use them on us!
Ask yourself, What would John F Kennedy do if he was in charge? I think I know what he would do.
This whole "Microwave Ovens for Freedom" thing is a nice idea-and I feel for those suffering in this oppressed country-but how can it work when the supply chain we set up must first go through the North Korean military? By the time it reaches the common folk, there won't be much left to ease their pain.
Citizen Kim: (opens dirty, shredded box) "Wow! Look! 1000 box snow globes! Wait, this not food..." (suddenly staggers back, holding chest, and mutters, "Ricebud..." (collapses and dies)
It's hard to believe they are still bitter over losing the Korean war as their sole motivation for isolation and hatred of the US. After multiple rejections of aid, the leaders are acting more like irresponsible parents reminiscent of Saddam Hussein and the Castros. Smoke cigars by palace poolsides and occasionally (reluctantly) get up in front of the camera to badmouth the US with political rhetoric to assure all their slaves-surrounding them in a human shield-they're better off worshiping them. They then push a red button, shake the entire country with a crappily-made nuclear weapon with mickey-mouse ears on it, and rock them all into a blissful sleep.
Jong-Un: "Ahhh. That should hold 'em for a few more months."
North Korea's dictator will use nukes, sooner or later, I have no doubt. This looney has an itchy trigger finger and he cares not about his country or countrymen, otherwise he would not be starving his own people. His mentality is a result of decades of tutoring in hatred by his father and grand father and his hatred of the US will trump rational reasoning. The really scary part is that this looney just might be picking this fight on purpose to try and force the US and/or allies into a preemptive strike. If there is a preemptive strike, anything less than a clean decapitation of the chain of command will be like throwing dynamite into a fire. Trying to bring North Korea to the table in the past with different form of aid has failed. North Korea used those resources to get where they are today. Park an Ohio class boomer off their coast.
What ever happened to good ole fashion divide and conquer?
I am fascinated. 105 posts: 95% of which, gave variations of the same or similar themes. Not one providing some kind of acquaintance with information, albeit scarce, about what conditions actually exist in the DPRK. I have not been there. But, at least I have checked the CIA fact book, and watched the videos posted on You Tube by persons who have. First: the government there is not hesitant to reveal that life there is difficult. I doubt food is plentiful. I have seen videos of populations which are nearly starving. Mostly on the African continent, which has the ten ( probably 20) most poor nations in the world. Not to speak of Haiti, a country we "help." The most easily visible sign is, hordes of people hanging around, and aimless. Somewhat like what I see here in Los Angeles. Yet, no such visages have been shown to exist in the DPRK. And, since they "supposedly hate us," so much, why would they care if we know about such conditions? Most of the poor and desperate people i have come across, respond to my presence as if I was not there. i assume, it's because they believe I don't care about them. Actually, I am ashamed, since i live in the richest country in the world.
I cannot imagine what arrogance and unawareness regarding history, motivates people to recommend, "just bomb them." The British were not cowed by the german bombing. Nor the Germans, despite the 24 hour firebombing of Essen, Cologne, Dresden, etc. Not to speak of our bombing of Viet Nam, Korea, Iraq, and now, Afghanistan.
WE have been waiting and predicting the imminent implosion of the DPRK government for over 60 years. Like it or not, it is supported by the majority of the population, which didn't fall into our arms, thankful of our arrival, when WE came to their country to "free" them. They, and their Chinese cohorts, came on, eager to face us, and hope for our demise. Yet, the overwhelming majority of posts claim, that the citizenry lacks the courage to confront their own government. I would offer, the "brainwashing," the many posts claim exists there, is actually in existence, here 'at home," no?
i have no idea how the situation can/will be resolved, resulting in a single Korea. There was supposed to be a vote in 1948. The US refused to recognize the representatives sent from the north, Did WE expect they would be spouting praise for Western democracy, having been tutored by the Soviet Union? WE then told those in the South to form a government. The North soon followed, and the contest was on. They have already told us many times that they will not do IT "our way." And, have DEMONSTRATED, they are mentally prepared to resist. WE ought to recall that, the German Wehrmacht was the most efficient and modern military organization when it advanced into the SOVIET UNION with its best. 24 million lives later, the Soviets were chasing them back to Berlin.
it takes more than simplistic notions to "defeat" the human organism when it is determined. Get It?
Daniel,
I highly recommend reading Escape from Camp 14. It is the life story of Shin Dong-hyuk who escaped from the DPRK when he was 23. When a population knows nothing about the outside world to the point of being encouraged to turn their parents and brothers/sisters in for having thoughts independent of "The Great Leader" it redefines Stockholm Syndrome.
As a retired veteran who was assigned to the ROK, I can tell you I can understand the whole bomb them thing, although I disagree with it. I think a solution must be an internal DPRK one that can be facilitated from the outside. The Chinese aren't as supporting as they once were as they (DPRK) are costing them politically on a global level and I think much more adapt to having them follow their model of engagement as opposed to isolation.
Just my thoughts....
Sanctions or not North Korea does not want to deal with the United States. They understand that dealing with the US will bring an end to their revolution. Libya stands as a good example to what happens when you lay down your nukes and cooperate with the US. North Korea has nothing and as the saying goes they have nothing to lose. I can only imagine what would happen if all the war rhetoric would simply stop . What would happen if we gave them food in the next famine and wanted nothing in return. Stop having war games played out in their waters . China is a good example to the possibilities to what can happen in a few decades.
Well NorCalVet, I wrote my reply. I don't post profanity or demeaning statements. Nonetheless, it was not posted. Your loss.
kim is well on hes way he looks 4 real vicktoreys not fake i no what he can do 1 thing he dont wont the southj he has better site then that look in to hes i,s,.pnm,.
its charely that can take u out mow,.pnm,. with kim n more,.pnm,.
Some of these blogs had to been written by N Korea plants, because no one in their right mind can seriously believe that we can shower them with gifts and they will love us forever. Who ever thinks that way needs a shrink...
Perestroika and Glasnost were badly timed. Supermarket shelves were empty, jobs were non existent. It was total chaos immediately after the historic breakup. All the former Soviet states were in social and political turmoil.
So, China is taking its time to 'free' its citizens from an iron hand rule only when infrastructures and national economies are fully established to benefit everyone , China would remain authoritarian. They cannot afford the riots and protest marches which would destroy its aim to become the most powerful nation in the world.
China have seen the consequences of a rushed Perestroika and Glasnost and what was like to be colonised by the western barbarians. They have also seen closeup America's humiliating Vietnam war debacle, and Wall Streets greed. It will take alot for them to have complete trust in America démocracy.
China will have to literally fight to rid itself of its Communist rulers. Inspite of the name, Soviet and Chinese style communism is all about a very few living well supported by the majority...People dont like giving up things and these people are adicted to the power.
UNRESTRICTED Capitalism is very bad (we seem to be moving in that direction- all our regulations were in place for a very good reason) – But a regulated system, capitalism and socialism (socialism to look out for the elderly and disabled and give the poor a helping hand as they need it) can be just what we need worldwide.
I say all the missile test are just for show....I don't think they are going to actually do anything because that would mean their annihilation....The only real ally they have is China and they wouldn't back a pre-emptive strike on SK..... So I say if they want to be so isolated start ignoring them.....stop making a big deal out of anything they do if nobody has been hurt or no international laws broken.....
You should remember South Korea’s “sunshine” policy (’98 to 2007) which aimed to engage the North proved a flat-out failure as it secretly kept working on nuclear program. Unlike Aesop’s fable, sunshine did not, and will never do the trick on the North because it is totally different animal from other dictatorships, with its iron-clad ideology “Juche”, stifling control on people’s lives, dynastic inheritance, and tight isolation. The North even sustained a devastating famine that took 2 million death tolls in the 90s, while refusing international assistance. (yet the regime still goes on) To me, nothing can be more apparent than juvenile leader Kim’s conviction of using nuke as the ultimate chip for its survival and an era of phony prosperity. Your suggestion – trade, travel, and handing out capitalism – will only prolong North Korean people’s miseries, while allowing more time for this rogue regime to advance nuke skills.
I think we've tried engagement and aid. If they're just going to continue behaving like this we should engage China on the issue more forcefully. A united Korea would be better for everyone, including China. All that wealth surrounding them and they're still stuck in the 50s, it's a horrible thing. Engagement is fine, but it only ever happens on their manipulative terms.