Watch Fareed’s interview with Wolf and Minton Beddoes on GPS this Sunday on CNN at 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. ET
GPS Digital Producer Jason Miks sits down with Zanny Minton Beddoes, economics editor of The Economist, and the Financial Times chief economics commentator, Martin Wolf, to discuss the recent government shutdown, politics in Washington, and why the debt ceiling is “absurd.”
Congress managed to agree to a last minute deal over the debt ceiling and government shutdown. But how would a debt default have affected average Americans, or how could it if this comes up again in the future?
Minton Beddoes: October 17 was the day on which the Treasury Department said it was going to run out of capacity to juggle its finances such that it could continue borrowing. And that means that from October 17 it would have had no more borrowing authority, and it essentially would have had to go to a cash budget overnight. It could then only spend what tax revenue was coming in, which is the equivalent of about 65 percent of spending. That means the government would not have been able to pay all its bills. Something would have had to give: that could mean stop paying interest on the debt, or stop sending social security checks out, or stop paying other obligations, whether to soldiers or suppliers.
There was one practical question and a lot of legal ones. The practical one was whether the Treasury, which pays millions of people every day, would find it practical to prioritize certain payments – could they actually do that, legally and practically.
And secondly, if they could, what would they prioritize? The rest of the world was worried most that they would fail to pay the interest on their bonds, so that would be a technical default. If they were unable to send out social security checks, it would be equally breaking the law, because it would be breaking a promise that they had made. But that would have a very different impact – it might not have paralyzed global financial markets, but it would have had a very big political impact as millions and millions of senior citizens didn’t get their social security checks.
There was a clear timetable of what payments were due when, but it wasn’t clear on what day a calamity might occur, the Treasury still has about $30 billion in cash on hand and it could have drawn that down. So probably on October 18, nothing would have happened. On October 19 nothing. On October 20, probably nothing. But at some point, something would not have been paid, and I suspect in anticipation of that, financial markets would have become much, much more jittery.
More from GPS: Conservatism needs to lighten up
So the impact on the rest of the world was 1) the potential of a default and 2) the huge fiscal tightening that would happen if you had to suddenly cut back your spending. And that alone would have pushed the economy into recession.
Wolf: Some people would not have gotten their money. Many of those people would have been Americans. Lots of securities deemed to be completely safe would cease to be safe. If that had happened, it would have created devastation in the financial markets because these are the safest form of collateral that are used in the markets for borrowing.
If they had avoided that and just focused on the domestic economy, the recession would have been, my own guess would say, deeper than 2009, because you would have an instantaneous fiscal tightening of GDP and all the automatic mechanisms to smooth such a tightening would disappear. It would have had a devastating economic effect, and the long term credibility of the United States would have been seriously damaged. And we would also without a doubt ended up with a host of law suits, and nobody knows how they would have been resolved with the administration no longer meeting its obligations.
So, should the debt limit be scrapped?
Wolf: It’s an absurd law. In my view, it over determines the system. Basically, what a government does is that it makes budgets, it determines its tax law, and it determines its spending law. That has certain implications for borrowing, and you can adjust these over time to make the borrowing manageable. That’s how it works. If you in addition impose a limit on how much you borrow, and that becomes binding, then you can’t meet your spending obligations or you have to change your tax law, which wouldn’t be done in the short term.
So if this bites, the government is required to break the law. You can’t have a law that requires the government to break the law. It seems to me that this is completely crazy. And if it is implemented, it blows up the world. So having a law that requires illegality if it bites and blows up the world – it seems to me almost impossible to imagine inventing such a bad law. And if you have a bad law you should get rid of it. The way the U.S. has always been able to handle it in the past is because they have always raised it. That’s fine if you ignore it. It becomes a problem if you stop raising it.
Minton Beddoes:That’s right. They’ve had this law since World War I. And originally Congress had to agree on every single debt issue, and introducing the debt ceiling seemed to be a rationalization of this so you didn’t have to deal with every single one. And as Martin says, it was almost a formality for a long time.
More from GPS: Rhetoric a problem for GO
I think the reason it has become a problem now is not so much a function of the stupidity of the rule, which I agree is a stupid law. It’s that it is a symptom of the dysfunctionality whereby certain groups in Congress think it’s perfectly OK to vote for spending and not vote for the debt authority to fund it. It plays to the idea that you can both hate government and vote for spending bills.
It’s the same kind of phenomenon as people saying “Get the government off my Medicare” It’s the view that government is terrible, we’re not going to fund government – but then we’re going to have all this spending. Getting rid of the debt ceiling is important in that it would stop this brinkmanship. But it would also ensure that you had consistency so that if you voted to change spending, voted to change tax policy, that’s the way you would impact the budget –not have some rearguard action later on an extraneous issue. That’s what happened this time – it was about Obamacare, which didn’t have anything to do with the immediate tax and spending plans.
So this growing suspicion of the government – is there something unusually American about this?
Minton Beddoes:I think it’s particularly extreme here. I remember some years ago in Utah at a national park having a long conversation with the ranger, who is obviously employed by the federal government. He was explaining to me how the federal government was terrible and it needed to get out of people’s lives. And you have that kind of dissonance again and again.
Martin, people hate the government in other countries too, but here it seems a particularly extreme version of that…
Wolf: I think it’s unique. And that’s because of the historical ideology of the United States, which has traditionally been against government – they regard it as an intrusion. But nonetheless, in the 20th century, here as everywhere else because we live in a modern industrial economy, government has had to assume many responsibilities, often in crisis or war. And really everyone is happy about that. So they hate the idea of an active and intrusive government – it is seen as a very wicked thing. And they are also utterly dependent on it. One of the ironies if I remember correctly is that the one program that everyone seems to agree they should abolish is international aid. And actually the United States spends a couple of tenths of a percent of GDP on it – it is so small. They don’t know. The Utah story is very important – most Americans don’t know what the government spends its money on.
Minton Beddoes:The whole irony of this government shutdown was the government got shut down, but then the House wanted to vote on the bits of the government that were popular. So on one program after another that appeared popular, they suddenly became great fans of it. The dissonance of people’s views is remarkable.
Most commentators seem to agree that the health of the U.S. economy in the long term depends on finding a balance of spending cuts and revenue increases. How optimistic are you that some sort of balance can be struck?
Minton Beddoes: I think that everyone sensible recognizes that America’s real fiscal problem is not a short term fiscal problem, it’s a medium to long term one. To deal with it you need first to get health care costs under control, and keep them under control, because Medicare costs are the single biggest thing driving the long term budget problem.
More from CNN: Worst shutdown in modern U.S. history
Secondly, you need some actually relatively modest change to the social security system, like raising the retirement age, changing the benefits structure so you means test a bit more. Ideally, I would say although it’s not essential, that some sort of tax reform should be undertaken, because this is one of the most inefficient tax systems in the world. It would be good for America to do all of those. And I think sensible people in both parties could coalesce around a big, bold fiscal reform strategy that includes these elements.
The problem is that extremists on both sides, particularly Republicans, don’t want to countenance large parts of that agenda. On the left there are people who don’t want any change to entitlements at all, while on the right there is the view that all tax increases of any sort would be terrible. So we have reached this stalemate where the only thing that happens is stupid short-term cutting, like the sequester, but which doesn’t address the long term problem.
Can we change that? We can hope that maybe this whole debt ceiling drama has shaken up the extreme wing of the Republican Party so they can see there is something to be gained by achieving something more meaningful. But I have to say I’m skeptical. The ideological positions are so far apart. I think there is such mistrust and almost loathing between the two sides that I don’t expect anything really dramatic until we’ve had afew more election results.
Wolf: I agree completely. I would just add two things. One is the underlying one – the longer term deal that Zanny has broadly underlined is that the non-social security, non-assistance for the poor, parts of the budget are getting too small. I think there is a real question about whether the U.S. is investing adequately through the government in its long term future. The U.S. government is an important part of the innovation machine. So there is a question about the future of government.
But the crucial point that Zanny made is that none of this is urgent. The truth is that none of it has to be fixed until the 2020s. It would be nice if they fixed it now, but the next 10 years are not a serious problem. There’s no doubt the U.S. can support its current debt, and the latest forecast from the Congressional Budget Office suggests the debt situation will actually improve a little over the next decade.
So there’s no urgency about it. So you have to just wait and see what happens on the politics. And on that, I think it’s open – we’ll see what happens. So the idea that there needs to be a long term deal now is nonsense. There are a lot of people pushing for it, and many of them don’t realize how big a tightening there has been. But there is an immediate need, and that is what Zanny said.
The sequester process is now implemented, and it is an appalling process. If you talk with experts about what it is doing to the Defense Department, for example, what it is doing to the National Institutes of Health, it is very bad. So what they need to do is reach a deal if they can over what is to my mind a much too low level of spending.
But they have to recast spending to get rid of these sequester caps, because they were designed to do damage – that was the idea so that people would renegotiate. Well they are doing damage – but people aren’t renegotiating them. And so the real need in these budget talks, about which I have little optimism, is to reshape the spending envelope so it’s less damaging to the United States. And I’m not even confident they can agree on that.
Propaganda as usual. What is hurting the US economy are off shored jobs, open borders, B 1 visa programs to lower American wages, ENDLESS WARS ! The money spent on wars could have provided capital to fix bridges, better roads even health care for all. We have hiigh priests of war promoting wasting of our treasury money, dysfunctional media busy with propaganda so the money is squandered on bailing out banks, endless wars instead spending it on people.
The banking and media cartels need to be broken up so that the press can reflect reality instead of hurting our economy.
Here we go again, why do you think that the federal government has money for bridges or roads etc..
The typical liberal fantasy that the government has money. The states should fix their own roads or bridges, they balance their budgets. The federal government is in debt for 17 trillion and close to 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities. Why should New Mexico have to pay for the roads in New York? Get a clue, the federal government is spending far too much money now, and asking for one project after another is the reason for this mess in the first place. Someone has to stop the liberals in this country before it is too late to stop the bankruptcy of this nation and our freedoms gone in a massive socialist nation. Thank God for Ted Cruz, he had the guts to fight the big government mafia in the Republicans like Rep Peter King and Obama.
Let me get this straight, Paul. The government has money for endless wars which build nothing , but has no money for bridges ? Is that your point ?
Of course I agree that our debt is horrible and needs to be addressed immediately. Bush borrowed money from China to start a war -not very bright .He was not smart enough to run the show, he had his handlers.
We do not live in a jungle ,Paul, and most industrial nations get rich to benefit their people- it used to be that way in the US , but now it is just the very rich for themselves which will destroy this nation. You can not be patriotic if you are a Globalist- the mentalities are contradictory. There is little difference between Democrats and Republicans -they both work to benefit the 1% that funds their reelections and the public ends up holding the bag. What you see recently is a regular circus to make people thing that they live in a democracy. Unfortunately , that is not the case-we live in almost a totalitarian state with censorship and propaganda galore.
before you get too carried away, you may want to look up what states pay more federal taxes than they receive back, and which are mooching.
Other than Texas, this country is funded by the North East and the West coast.
Typical TP rubbish. Of course the Government has money. They're the ones that authorize it, print it and distribute it. Do you really think that the interstate highway system would have been built by local and state governments? By the way, the interstate has been key for the tremendous growth of America in past 50 to 60 years. That was a federal government program. If it wasn't for the feds being the facilitators we wouldn't have the internet to have these kinds of conversations. I could go on and on, but you TP folks don't look at things in a rational way. You are all about ideology.
By the way, Cruz is an idiot. I hope he keeps going the way he is because I can't think of anything that will marginalize the TP more than that idiot behaving the way he does.
I am sorry for you. You are so brainless that you even do not understand who profits most from berating our government. Answer: Corporate greed who wants turn us into slaves. Look what e.g.Verizon and Comcast do, bind us with contracts as medieval peasant was bound to his master. No other country in the world allows this!!! Without the government who sets rules and is the only organization that can stop corporate dictatorship, Americans would be turned to cheep slave like workers serving the corporations. Unfortunately, we are not far from that now.
The Tea Party is going to strike back soon! Their failure of shutting the government down wouldn't knock some sense into their heads. They might just play even more perfidious games in the future, knowing they can always rely on a tiny percentage of fanatics in the country to further their career interests
Paul – do a little research into Federal Taxes paid vs. Federal Aid received by states. Your example of New Mexico funding New York is a great example: in reality New Mexico (along with Misssissippi, Alabama, Kenucky, South Carolina & West Virginia) are the biggest takers. New York (along with Massachusetts, Illinois, Ohio, Maryland, California) are the ones who pay for it. The irony is that liberal states fund these projects in conservative states but most conservatives see it as the other way around. I'll note Texas as the one exception to this trend.
Thanks to the Tea Party, the American Tax Payer is shelling out billions of dollars for government shutdown and lost productivity. Specific example: a nitwit with no sense of responsibility was able set fire to the USS Miami – a top-of-the-line tactical nuclear submarine – now a TOTAL LOSS; $1 billion (cost of construction, plus expenses). Worse yet, we now have one less valuable frontline defender. So, you guys with your rhetoric about how much the country is in debt can take a flying leap. I'm usually a pretty quiet guy, but now I'm IN YOUR FACE... at work, in my neighborhood, at church, family dinner – EVERYWHERE. So far, all you guys have done is cost this country money, made us less effective, and destroyed the peace.
2016 can't come soon enough, as far as I'm concerned. I'm voting ANTI-TEAPARTY. If you don't like it, then leave.
ACTIVISM HACKED TEXT.
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DENUNCIA A MONSANTO FARMACEUTICAS NORTE AMERICANAS FDA A LOS QUE ENVIAMOS LAS DENUNCIAS E INFORMACIONES, FARMACEUTICAS EUROPEAS Y ASIATICAS.
FARMACEUTICAS CHAVISTAS Y ARGENTINA KFC COMPRANDO TALCO INDUSTRIAL PARA PRODUCTOS.
MEDICAMENTOS EUROPEOS FABRICADOS POR FARMACEUTICAS EN LAS QUE POLITICOS TEIENEN ACCIONES
LISTA NEGRA DE PRODUCTOS CON MATERIAS PRIMAS QUE CONTIENEN NANO TECNOLOGIA.
October 18, 2013 at 9:06 pm | Reply
Why do you think that we publish this be cause the agencies are cauterizing your epiglottis glottis and trachea.
WITH NANOTECHNOLOGY, DOCTORS ITS NOT A BACTERIA OR VIRUS PROOVED.
CNN DO YOU KNOW A AGENT SERIAL KILLER FROM AGENCIES, THE DAMAGE SUBJETS FROM SATELITE.
IN VENEZUELA ARE FROM THE HILLS IN CARACAS OR BARRIOS.
Hot topic: The Spain King giving budget to built and University of Carabobo in Spain with the same name to the Venezuela University.
We develope a Bank Model in University of Carabobo.
Tema Caliente: El Rey de España esta financiando una Universidad de Carabobo con el mismo nombre de la Universidad de Carabobo en Venezuela.
Al parecer estan tratando que cuando mueran los testigos de los estudios de la raza humana, todos los proyecto de la Universidad de Carabobo en Venezuela parezcan de manera ilegal como de Universidades en Europa y España.
Que sospechoso parece que construyan una universidad con el mismo nombre de la Universidad de Carabobo en Venezuela.
Denunciamos al Rey de España por robo, asesinato, violaciones y este no emite comentario.
Todo esto por el Banco Perfectible.
You are a paid CNN thrall to mute discussion , most likely one of the Thought Police , otherwise your comments would vanished. You have the power and influence the comments.
Ironically the most addictive and deadly/damaging drugs in the world are perfectly legal and yet good old pot is a class one narcotic, Why?
The tea party took a direct hit in Texas the other day !
Texas Textbook Publishers Say No To Creationism: Watchdog Report ............where Cruz is from.
Thanks CNN. I sure thought that my previous comment would vanish-the Thought Police must have gone home early today. The media including CNN ARE HURTING THE ECONOMY BY DISTORTING REALITY so that instead of useful suggestions we just get confusion, bickering, nonsense. If things are to get better the Truth Ministry needs to be abolished for good.
Conspiracy theorists... lol... a breed apart. Comic relief.
Someone needs to tell Wolf that SS surpluses piled up over 25 years have been spent by the high rollers in Washington , DC. The elderly have been cheated with Boskin Commision of its due money so they have less money to spend and many have to choose between medication and food. What is wrong with these "investigative journalists " ? How can I find all this out and they are in the dark as to the basics of what is going on in this country ? Surely, if the elderly had more money to spend our economy would be in a better shape.
CNN's paid Thought Police thrall.
GLOBOVISION MEDIA 1999.
FIRST CHAVEZ ELECTIONs.
LEOPOLDO CASTILLO US STATE AGENCIES INVESTIGATION.
HUGO CHAVEZ – KIRSHNER – RUSEF – AND – SPAIN KING – USE MANUIPULATION ALGORITMS TO MANIPULATE ELECTIONS.
SEE THE NEWs.
Nano, never in my wildest dreams could I ever possibly imagined saying that in comparing this GPS article to your insanely idiotic response, at least yours might be worthy of being used for toilet paper. Good work.
CNN's paid Thought Police thrall to manipulate comments.
The only solution for Obama's disastrous economy........is to encourage other countries to refuse to buy any more IOU's from America. There is no other way to stop the increases in debt.
Thank Heavens, Obama's "disastrous" economy is many times better than GWB's bubble economy.
FACTS: National debt when Reagan entered office? $1 Trillion. When he left? $2.85 T. Bush 41 added a bunch. Clinton started in deficit & ended in SURPLUS, with a net increase of ZERO. Bush 43 more than doubled the national debt, to over $10 T ... SO: in 28 yrs, 3 Repub admins increased the nation debt from $1 T to $10 T, a 900% increase. Each of these "Conservative" admins decreased relative investments in education, while massively increasing spending on military and creation of the Police State. Currently, Fed spending on education is approx $60 B, while spending on military, NSA, domestic spying, etc. costs approx $1,200 Billion (e.g. for every $2 Billion on military, $100 M for education)..
When Reagan entered office, income of the "top" 1% was 8.9% of GDP. In 2006, under Bush ... after three "Repug" admins of "Trickle Down" Voodoo / Reaganomics -the top 1% took 27% of GDP as "their" income - more than a 300% increase - almost entirely taken from the wallets of middle and lower income working families.
Make NO mistake, the Republicans CREATED this problem. The Repubs spewed LIES and propaganda for three decades about how their policies were for the benefit of the working class BUT... The FACTS don't lie. The MATH is the one and only TRUTH. They will CONTINUE to lie, at every opportunity BUT: anyone who actually wants to know the truth can check it for themselves. Please check for yourself. These numbers are all public records (income @ IRS.gov, debt multiple locations). In spite of their LIES: - The Rs will continue policy that blocks small business for the benefit of monopolistic corporations. They will continue policy that lowers income from wages and increases income from capital. They will continue policy that benefits the massively wealthy at the expense of hard working citizens. They will continue to block efforts to create the only workable national health-care system ... NON-Profit. They will continue to push down wages by union busting and increasing visas for foreign workers. Corporate monopolies force down wages by restricting markets for workers labor.
Every once in a while (like Romney's 47% comments), they let the truth slip out. While Bush 43 was starting the Iraq war (on the worker's dime), he was caught on tape, pimping the war to oil company executives. While the champagne was flowing at this corporate fundraiser, GWB was caught saying: "These are MY people ... the 'Haves' and the 'Have Mores' ". I've always thought it was particularly disgusting to hear these liars call themselves "Patriots" and "Christians", while they betray the US population, acting in ways that should be insulting to true Christians.
JSwitz. Not only impressive, but relieving to see the reality of the situation being exposed by the use of hard figures and simple math which does not lie. The writing has been is on the wall all along, but too many for too long, for one reason or another just don't get it. And if this is the plain truth, what's hidden is likely unimaginable. So, how Washington might now break out of the box it put itself should be quite interesting to watch. But let's hope no one is just dying to see it.
Do not trust these numbers. The world problems were created with the hillary clinton family, because they were the professional lyers. Unfortunatelly the Republicans were naive, and did trust Democrats, until it was obvious that the Clintons were lying. Then the Republicans could not correct all the faults, that the Clintons caused. But please remember, with Republicans politics, name it Reaganomics or Bushonomics - AMERICA gets success - with Demonomics - America gets failure.
Thanks, JSwitz – a thinking person and a patriot.
Well said! However, what Republicans depend upon is an uninformed electorate with Fox News fueling the propaganda. Since there are big bucks behind the misinformation, the uninformed public is convinced it is informed. What the Republicans are banking on is the hate that has been generated by their greed. As long as half of America think that the enemy to economic recovery is the poor, and that immigrants, health care and investment in science and education steal jobs, we are doomed to repeat the fiasco we just went through.
Thank you JSwitz........... a very well-informed human being indeed.......... your comment was highly educational to myself, and I hope anyone else who dares to see the truth......
This article is blatantly misleading throughout. Debt limit is one of the few tools the people have to at least make Congress accountable for what they spend. Budgets used to be what Congress produced. Now all that is produced are CRs that hide what the govt is doing to the people. The overspending as a percentage of GDP must be brought under control to bring an end to deficits.
It's not misleading. It's pointing out that the childishness of our legislators who would create a budget beyond our spending capacity and therefore require a debt ceiling.
Without question, I would certainly have to side with Optimistmiser and Rightospeak on this one. And I have no doubt Paul Craig Roberts, whom I would consider a real economist and true American patriot, would likely suggest that this article isn't even worthy of being used for toilet paper. Furthermore, it's the first time the insanely idiotic accompanying response above by that sdfsdr2352345 (aka Nano The Latino Manure Spewer) made more sense than the actual article. But to cap it off, firstly, since when does our vote have any say whatsoever on borrowing and debt? Never!! Our vote puts some clown in office based on the best hot air campaign promises they can make, and once they get in office they are miraculously forced to increase the debt by trillions, NO OPTIONS. Secondly, the mere notion of any suggested spening cut back on the MIC and DOD is virtually non-existent in this article, nor is there any explanation or possible resolution to the gap in federal revenues vs expenditures. And lastly, if Zanny and Martin agreed to personally pay and take full financial responsibility for all the increased and uncontrolled spending shortfalls going forward that might result from the utter nonsense they are trying to sell us here, then by all means go ahead. Otherwise try selling us something that at least tries to balance the budget or might stave off further financial disaster around the next corner.
In such a short statement, you make two glaring errors.
(1.) Either you don't know what the Debt Limit means, or you DO know and you're trying to be deceitful. This term has been defined in the media enough times it most certainly should be understood. Raising the Debt Limit simply authorises the payment of existing debt (writing the check to pay the mortgage). The Debt Limit does NOT, repeat NOT "increase spending", or "authorize more spending" - it simply PAYS existing debt.
(2.) Federal SPENDING, as a percentage of the nations income, is the LOWEST it has been in over 50 years. In spite of insane levels of military spending (and tiny spending levels for education, infrastructure, etc.), the problem is REVENUE, NOT SPENDING. Historically (post WW2, pre Bush cuts), federal revenue from corporate taxes averaged 3.8% of GDP. Corporations continue to buy the Republican party. In exchange, Republican "Representatives", especially during the 6 years of total control, (2001 – 2007) created so many loopholes and kick-backs that corporate revenue dropped to 1% of GDP (a 74% DECREASE). This one change alone is enough to create the current annual deficit.
Truth is nice. LIES and Propaganda ?? ... not so much.
More and more Americans are revolting against socialist progressive Democrats and their policies. As long as the socialist progressive Democrats continue to expand the govt and its social programs there will be a steady increase in resistance.
They're "revolting" all the way until grandma doesn't get her government health care and social security, or their son suddenly needs treatment through the VA. Then they're okay with some socialism, all of a sudden.
True, the DRUNK on the train may be the the loudest ... and likely gets the most attention - this does NOT mean his babbling; rude behavior represents the thoughts and opinions of the others on the train.
Sorry, this isn't what polling and elections are saying.
I enjoyed the conversation and yes it time this device leave American law. Yes it is time to look to America's future, to sit down with your fellow legislators and present something at little less like America is having a Cold War with itself. The country hasn't lost its legs, it is still a leader everywhere in the world. Your own portrayal as a wounded nation isn't what America is about, it is a financial power house, it has the most advanced tactical weaponary that can if called upon be globally devasting. None of that would have been possible without the American people, researchers, innovators, professionals in every field, and the backbone of the nation its professional labourers. The doom and gloom this last decade, that has to stop.
You just have to figure out how to get corporate America out of your political system. Excise that cancer.
Believe in George W. Bush and his Bushonomics to see America succeed. Start working, balance trade and stop nonsense politics. Shutdown ´mrs. hillary´.
Google The Bush Family to see who the real traitors to the US are.
If these so called "Top economic commentators" think that "Extreme politics" are hurting the U.S. economy, they should just try to imagine what it might feel like if the rest of the world was to impose sanctions, no fly zones, and even bombing them on top of it.
Good posting, RZ. Thank you.
Much obliged that someone gets the point.
What is hurting the U.S. economy is our excessive and unnecessary military spending and foreign aid. If we'd only turn our bases in Germany over to the Poles, Czechs and Hungarians, those in J apan over to the Philippinos and the Vietnamese and those in South Korea to the Aussies and New Zealanders and pull our ships out of both the Mediterranean Sea and the Indian Ocean we'd could almost balance the national budget. This is the proverbial 800 lb. gorilla in the room that no one talks about but it's high time that someone did!
Thank you, Patrick. I can't over the ignorance of most of these idiots here and just how thick in the head they actually are! You seem to be one of the very few people here who gets it! Since these people can vote, this country will be in big trouble for a very long time!
Why do you support your own comments, shouldn't you maybe let others draw their own conclusions on you comments Phunnie Boy. Do you suffer from an inferiority complex, of maybe multipersonality disorder. I mean your General Patton, Patrick, now your pretending to be and I don't know how many others.
I mean are you so stupid that you think that everybody else hasn't figured this out. Your look upon with derision and loathing.
If you can't stick with one story, then maybe take up butterfly catching.
While Military spending is out of control, Foreign Aid accounts for less than 1% of the federal budget.
I don't think this recent shut down has awakened Congress to reality that their actions had a negative effect on the economy making it more difficult to pay off our bills, but in fact it may have embolden them to try harder next time. I believe the name of the game is to shut down and destroy as much of government as possible and rebuild it in a way that suits them (the Tea Party). To these people and the people they represent, it is worth economic disaster to get what they want. Those that are hard workers will rebuild their fortunes and may in fact be able to gleen more from a remolded system than now; big business (they think) will survive as this shut down didn't seem to effect the markets; and, as for other nations, that's why we keep the biggest military in the world – to protect our assets overseas and intimidate those that want to interupt the flow of money from outside. As for the debt and Obamacare, these are just props in a drama meant to illicit public support for dismantling government. What we are looking at is an attempt at revolution, and unless we educate the public that destroying house and home will not end well, we may be in for another more vicious attack this January.
It is our duty still to endeavor to avoid war; but if it shall actually take place, no matter by whom brought on, we must defend ourselves. If our house be on fire, without inquiring whether it was fired from within or without, we must try to extinguish it.
– Thomas Jefferson
I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
– Thomas Jefferson
“If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”
– Samuel Adams
“Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism”.
– George Washington
Excellent quotes – so very true, expecially now.
This is equivalent to a rally call we still hear, "drill hear, drill now." The American public truely believe that rising fuel prices can be averted by tapping domestic oil. What they do not understand is that the oil market is international and the price is determined by supply and demand. As China and India are developing and damanding energy, the price goes up. All we have done by opening up our reserves to exploitation, is more profits for the oil companies. What Congress is doing by threatening the economy will result in increased interest rates and profits to lenders and banks. In both cases, the American people loose. Unless we give America a crash course on economics, we may end up holding the short end of the stick. But then again, education requires people willing to learn and for the last couple of decades our education system has produced people who are better at video games than basic math.
The math is straight foward. In five years our national leader has added a little over $6 trillion to the national debt, and now it stands at a higher level than the combined debt levels of all the Presidents before him combined. It works out to be $1.2 trillion each year made up of spending from "legally passed legislation" and interest payments on debt. That's real so let's not pretend it doesn't exist and think we can just keep borrowing. It's either cut how much we spend or raise more money to cover spending. Maybe it's both. Most of the bloggers here have no concept of reality, like the idea of not spending what we don't have is completely foregin to them. THEY elected politicians just like them to flaunt reality for real as a step beyond blogging. There's a great poster of Richard Nixon with a caption that reads "I bugged two buildings and got impeached". Next to him is Obama's picture with a caption "I bugged the entire country and you idiots still love me". Wake up all you dummies out there, make that Democrats so there's no question about who it's directed to.
Of the people,
By the people,
For the people.
It all depends how you apply the big "WE" in there somewhere. Apparently, there's a few inherent exclusions. One of them evidently being pretty much everyone else.
And again the left lies about everything. Our own government is full of cheats and no good people both republican and democrat, look at the way they sold us down the river to open the government back up. They will point the finger at whoever they want just to take our attention away from what is really going on.
Isn't it just mind boggling, DGIZ ?? Make people so fearful of a government shutdown that they are entirel grateful for the increased debt load that comes with its reopening..
When the a majority of the american people get the heads out of their @##@# and realize both parties are scaming them things are going to get real interesting...
Well Tiesto, that's on interesting observation to which we all need to take sides. Let's start with Side 1-The MIC. Side 2-The DOD. Side 3- Wall Street. Side 4-The Banks. Side 5-The rest of the world. Side 6-America. You can cut and paste these any which way you want or even add a few more like the FED or whoever, but here you now have at least 6 sides which is enough to make the box that all the clowns in Washington have put themselves in. And should the majority actually get around to putting their heads on straight, I too hope they take Side 6, but with all due respect to the other sides as well.
Although, medicare and SS need a revamp, a bigger fish to fry is bringing in the revenue the country needs to function.
How about reigning in Big Oil, or Big Pharma, or the Military Complex. Before you hurt the poor, take a bigger bite out of the rich.
Liberals have always been a little flaky, but this new batch of radical right wingers is just scary.
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