Divergent views on U.S. role amid Clinton's visit to Tunisia
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton tours a Tunisian Red Crescent Society training center on Thursday.
March 17th, 2011
11:22 AM ET

Divergent views on U.S. role amid Clinton's visit to Tunisia

By Ivan Watson, CNN

Tunis, Tunisia - The little Arab country that started the region's wave of revolutions has wildly divergent reactions to the arrival of America's top diplomat.

Not surprising, perhaps, considering the political ferment Tunisia has enjoyed ever since the January 14 overthrow of its dictatorial president and his secret police enforcers.

In two short months, this country has gone from decades of strict one-party rule to an explosion of more than 30 registered political parties.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton arrived in the North African nation Wednesday, part of a four-day trip that also included stops in France and Egypt. She's expected to consult with government officials and others on recent events in the region, according to the State Department.

"President (Barack) Obama supported our people's revolution. He called for our people to have the right to chose their government," said Ajmi Lourimi, one of the leaders of the long-banned Islamist al-Nahda [Renaissance] party, who spent more than 16 years in prison under the regime of former President Zine El-Abidine Ben Ali.

"If she is working in the direction indicated by President Obama then it's the right choice."

A few hundred yards away from the Parisian-style café where Lourimi was sipping cappuccino, a small group of leftist Tunisian demonstrators sang an entirely different tune.

They waved signs with anti-American slogans such as "Tunisia is free - America get out."

"We want her to stay out," said Hawla Hammoun, a 21-year-old female university student wearing an Islamic headscarf, speaking in fluent, American-accented English.

"We know why she is coming here. She is coming here to find another alternative for the government that we toppled, to find someone else to sit here and to work for the ... American agenda for her here in Tunisia. That used to keep the people always under their control in order to be able to exploit the fortune of the country."

Only a short distance away from the demonstrators, a different view: the bespectacled manager of the Librairie al Kitab bookshop called on the U.S. government to intervene militarily to "stop (Moammar) Gadhafi's genocide" in neighboring Libya.

"Just drop a few bombs, that's all it would take to stop Gadhafi's forces," said Mohamed Bennour, standing next to a rack of books that, up until the fall of Ben Ali, were banned by Tunisian government censors.

"Before, it was forbidden by law and people were scared. No one would dare to gather like this and to speak in groups," said 26-year old Ines Amri, an English teacher.

She was watching the freewheeling political debates that now spontaneously take place among small crowds of Tunisians on the tree-lined promenade of Avenue Habib Bourguiba.

Amri was particularly worried about the future of women's rights now that Islamist political parties were allowed to operate freely in Tunisia.

But she also had a warning for one of the most powerful women in the world.

"Just come for diplomatic reasons," Amri said, speaking of Clinton. "But do not tell us what to do or treat us like babies, as if we're not going to make it without America. We can get our democracy without America."

One member of Tunisia's two-month old interim government had his own message for Clinton: Thank you.

Until January 13, 33-year-old blogger and internet freedom activist Slim Amamou said he was handcuffed and being subjected to psychological torture by Tunisian interrogators for his online criticism of the Ben Ali regime.

Four days after his release, he was unexpectedly asked to become a minister of state in the new revolutionary government.

In an interview with CNN, Amamou said he believed Clinton's intervention on his behalf during a meeting with Tunisia's ambassador to Washington helped secure his release.

"This put pressure on the Ben Ali regime to get us out," Amamou said. "So this was very nice."

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  1. Jorge

    her visit just shows the complete US foreign policy metdown that this disastrous Obama adminstration led this country to..now america has forgot that islam IS at war against it, and as traitor obama said, all deffenses must come down so that the islamisation of america and europe can continue unchecked and unstopped.Obama nd clinton deffend the destruction of western civilization at the hands of jihadists-remember bosnia?what a horrible shot in the foot stupidity that husband clinton did.stooouupid! sharia law is already creepinf our legal system, infectin the economy and seriously eroding BASIC human rights,freedom and democracy , ENDANGERING THE SURVIVAL OF THE ENTIRE CIVILIZATION.As per usual leftlist democrats sleep and make love to jihadists, betraying, prostituting themselves and selling their souls to the devil...for what?...the useless STUPID oil that is causing massive backwardness all over the world, specially when we don't even need this poison that fuels the jihad all over the world and the biggest jump backwards to the dark ages we have ever seen!!!.not to forget that it is ruining the planet! Screw islam!

    March 18, 2011 at 5:28 am | Reply
    • ana

      Jorge, shame on you for making false statements like this, or you were born yesterady. Everybody on earth knows that muslims hate US for George HW and George W, not Obama. Shove your mindless rant in your back, and let others talk who knows the facts.

      March 18, 2011 at 11:11 am | Reply
      • Jorge

        here is a small taste of facts for you ana..shame on you for even trying to deffend a satanic ideology like shitzlam-PURE EVIL-HOW TO BECOME A "GOOD" MUSLIM:

        1. INFANTILISE yourselves and your chaotic cultures with Qur'anic drive

        2. BRAINWASH children before they can challenge Islam with intellectual independence. Force them to rock back and forth while reciting Qur'anic gibberish. That way the brain stem is stimulated and vulnerable developing minds are fused and melded to Qur'anic imbecilic drivel and the legacy of Muhammad's crude manipulative lies

        3. ENSURE your mind remains excessively and obsessively rigid – never question anything. Suppress all dangerous critical thinking. Protect your delusions with inflexibility

        4. DELUDE yourself that 'Allah'- who is no more real than Luke Skywalker or Harry Potter or Santa Claus – actually exists

        5. REFUSE to see that most of The Holy Qur'an is turgid, dull, fifth rate, vacuous, scientifically empty, superstitious, utterly mundane, repetitious, nebulous nonsense – instead, fantasise that it is the word of a god

        6. DON'T PRAY to 'Allah' to eliminate every single 'kafir' from the face of the Earth. Dont pray to 'Allah' bring a frightening plague upon every 'infidel'- after all, you know deep down that something that does not exist cannot answer your prayers for total 'kafir' annihilation. So kill filthy 'kafirs' yourself after all, YOU DO EXIST (unlike your fictional 'Allah'). Every time you kill a 'kafir' or 'infidel' you acknowledge that there is no god to answer your prayers and desires that all 'kafirs' be destroyed. You recognise that a fantasised god cannot kill anything – so you murder people yourself, rather than leave it to your imaginary friend 'Allah'

        7. DO PRAY – mumble gibberish at blank walls and the floor five times a day. Speak imbecilic drivel to the air. Bow in fervent worship of your own imagination & fantasy. Dedicate your life to the utter drudgery and mundanity of utterly futile prayer. No one will hear. No one will respond – because there is no one there to hear or respond

        8. PUNISH OTHERS for your shortcomings. Punish other societies for the failures of Islamic society. Societies which collapse into their own self-induced shit-stenched misery because 'Allah' is never there to help them and hasn't helped them for 13 centuries because he does not exist

        9. LIVE LIKE A PARASITE & BE A HYPOCRITE – live off the filthy disgusting 'kafir' and make use of all he has discovered, invented, developed, produced, built, established, progressed and achieved

        10. NOD IN MINDLESS AGREEMENT at the manipulative drivel you are told by Imams, Mullahs, sheiks, Ayatollahs, Muslim Clerics, Elders etc

        11. WASTE YOUR LIFE on a fantasy and feel deeply bitter towards others because of YOUR congenital inadequacy

        12. FAIL TO GO TO PARADISE when you suffer bio-chemical, bio-physical and bio-electrical brain and body death. After all, you will not go to a place that does not exist. You cannot wake up and live for eternity in a human fantasy can you?

        13. BLAME everyone and anyone, anyone else but yourself for the abject misery and utter failure of the Islamic way of life and its irresponsible over-populations

        14. LEAVE BEHIND your Muslim societies and swarm in huge numbers to 'kafir' societies built on brilliance, ingenuity, talent, inventiveness, innovation, hard-work, self-discipline and organizational ability. Societies built on prayer dont work do they? A non-existence god does not help you build contented societies – so swarm to the UK, USA, Western Europe, Australia, Canada, New Zealand – it's not HYPOCRITICAL. Is it?

        15. YEARN for a medieval Earth – only widespread ignorance allows backward people to swallow the sly, lying, narcissistic, egocentric, psychopathic, manipulative gibberish of The Holy Prophet Muhammad. BOMB THE WORLD BACK TO THE DARK AGES – where you feel you most belong – WHERE YOU CAN ACTUALLY COPE AND NOT FEEL INADEQUATE

        16. PROTECT YOUR WISH-FANTASY ('Allah','Paradise') and turgid, mundane, bombastic work of fiction (The Noble Qur'an) within an inflexible, rigid DOGMA-MIND-SET (Islam) that fears any critical questioning. Shut out or destroy anything that might expose it to be what it truthfully is: solely a crude tribal religion of the imagination; solely an obsessive-compulsive thought-loop of fantasy

        March 18, 2011 at 2:48 pm |
  2. Ron

    "We can get our democracy without America."
    With or without the US, all you're going to get is an islamic dictatorship.
    You WILL welcome it or you WILL die.

    March 18, 2011 at 8:24 am | Reply
    • amri ines

      YES SIR we R going to get our Democracy ! we dont need lessons from Anyone ! the Tunisians are intellectual and highly-aware people ! we will choose the party that renders us the best ! and Islam is not terrorism or dicatorship !
      This is our fate , US keep away from our mess ! The USA has always supported the regimes of dicatorships in the Arab world ! NOW , it comes to say we will teach U democracy, we will be the guardian over ur democracy??? I guess that is called disrespect and interference in other's business !
      Tunisians Will always be FREE , we R NOW freeer than Americans ARE !

      March 19, 2011 at 6:57 pm | Reply
      • amri ines

        I wanted to answer you , because it is what I said that U R commenting on !
        thx anyway for ur comment

        March 19, 2011 at 6:58 pm |
  3. pete D

    as long as our AIPAC owned politicians have their noses up israeli/jews azzzholes ther wil never ever be peace in the mideast

    March 18, 2011 at 9:50 am | Reply
  4. ana

    All the b!tches who are asking America to stay out, one day come begging America like Libiyans are doing for help. Nobody is interested in your stupid country, you thankless muslims never have a peaceful like and let others live in peace.

    March 18, 2011 at 11:07 am | Reply
    • ana

      I mean 'life'

      March 18, 2011 at 11:08 am | Reply
      • Ana needs help

        "you thankless Muslims"? really? you mean "THOSE UN thankful Muslims" You gotta look deeper than the graphics. what made them that way. people only do what they know, how to change and introduce new behavior is key, not ranting. As a growing religion and culture in America, Muslims have shown they too just like the Jews, Christians, Buddhists, etc. can live and adapt in the new era. Even though we've been living in the new era, does not mean everyone hop'd on the same train. you had leaders ruling for before i was born, I am 25 years old. People like you is what makes the Taliban hate America btw, little do they know, just like you don't, that one person cant speak for everyone, if that was the case, we would all be born together, and would all die together. smoke a gb and cool it down young buck, your white ass is a foreigner just as my brown ass is. Just because you were born here doesn't mean you own this land, remember, Christopher Columbus found the land and then took it away from the Indians, meaning their brown asses were here first not his white ass. white is not a superior race, all men and women are created on a 51%-49% ratio. the white man even voted for Obama, rather than a female that PMS's once a month, we know, and we see where that can lead to.

        March 18, 2011 at 11:43 am |
  5. Jorge

    WHY DO MUSLIMS UNDERACHIEVE??

    Muslims make up 22% of the World’s population, according to the United Nations' Arab Human Development Report: "Half of Arab women cannot read; One in five Arabs live on less than $2 per day; Only 1 percent of the Arab population has a personal computer, and only half of 1 percent use the Internet; Fifteen percent of the Arab workforce is unemployed; 60% of Muslims are illiterate”. Only two Muslims have won the Nobel prize in a scientific field – Dr. Abdus Salam, in 1979 for Physics and Dr. Ahmed Zewail, in 1992 for Chemistry. Dr Salam a native of Pakistan , is not considered to be a Muslim in his home country as he follows the Ahmadiyyas sect of Islam.

    Only 600 universities service a Muslim population of 1.2 billion in 57 countries. Half the universities concentrate on teaching Islamic education and science. India has 8,407 universities for 1 billion people and the United States has 5,758 for 280 million people. The combined annual GDP (purchasing power parity basis) of the 57 Muslim countries is under $2 trillion. The US produces goods and services worth $10.4 trillion; China $5.7 trillion, Japan $3.5 trillion, India $3 trillion and Germany $2.1 trillion. The oil rich states Saudi Arabia , United Arab Emirates , Kuwait and Qatar collectively produce goods and services worth $430 billion; Thailand alone produces goods and services worth $429 billion.

    Underachievement by Muslims was not always the case claim Muslims and point to a glorious and illustrious time when the Arab Muslim empire was the most advanced and enlightened in the world. Many discoveries were made in the period 750 – 1250 AD according to Muslims. Critical analysis of this period shows that many of the advancements and discoveries we falsely attribute to Muslims were actually made by the ancient civilisations of the Mediterranean area, or by the ancient Chinese and Indian civilisations.

    Muslims believe, that glass mirrors, were first developed by Muslim Spain in the 11th century. Around 1290 Venetians learned how to produce glass from the Spanish Muslims. The Romans invented the glass mirror around the 1st century. Research by Reinuad and Fave, indicates that Muslims chemists were the first to develop the formula for gunpowder and later produced firearms. The Chinese knew the formula for gunpowder and used it for military purposes during the Sung dynasty of the 12th century. Muslims boast that they laid the foundations for modern mathematics and two of its main branches, geometry and trigonometry. The Muslim contribution was merely to collect and combine the work done by the Egyptians, Greeks, Indians, Persians and Romans. The Indian civilisation gave us the concept of zero and modern numbers. Brahmagupta, an Indian mathematician, (598 – 665 AD) can be accredited with the initial work on algebra and negative numbers. The trigonometry terms sine and cosine have there origin in Sanskrit, the ancient language of India .

    The underachievement and underperformance by Muslims is acute in the 57 Islamic countries. Muslims claim that they are recovering from a long period of colonisation and de colonisation and the effects of the removal of the Palestinian people from Arab lands. How about the achievements of Muslims who live and work in the West? Well the truth is not that much better than their cousins in Muslim countries.

    The United Kingdom census of 2001 for the first time looked at the nation’s religious background. The findings showed that Muslims make up 2.8% of the UK population. Hindus 1%, Sikhs 0.6, Buddhists and Jews both make up 0.5% of the UK population. 31% of Muslims of working age have no qualifications, the highest of any religious group. As in many countries owing your own home is a major achievement and financial responsibility. 82% of Sikhs followed by 78% of Jews own their own home in the UK . Only 52% of Muslims own their own home, the lowest of any religious group. 14% of Muslims are unemployed, compared to 8% of Sikhs and 6% of Hindus. The underachievement of Muslims is even more bleak when you examine where most Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhist in the UK come from. 75% of Muslims, 97% of Hindus, 98 % of Sikhs and 69% of Buddhists in the UK are from or have ancestral links to South Asia . Therefore any cultural factors can be largely ruled out when comparing the achievement of Muslims with people from other religious groups. Muslims complain that they have to overcome language difficulties and face discrimination in the UK and state this as a factor in there poor performance. Buddhists, Hindus and Sikhs face the same language and discrimination issues as Muslims, yet their achievements and performance is much better than Muslims.

    The underachievement of Muslims should come as no surprise to those of us who understand the true nature of Islam. Everything a Muslim needs to know is in the Koran, Hadith or Sunnah. Muslims are not encouraged to seek knowledge and better themselves. Muslims are against progress, modernity and science. Those that control Islam do not want to see Muslims educated as an educated Muslim will apply commonsense and logic to the Koran and see it for what its is, a collection of distorted Bible and Torah stories and in print the mind of a 7th century Bedouin bandit leader.

    March 18, 2011 at 2:54 pm | Reply
  6. Rana

    the title of the article is (divergent views) ... this means there are so many differnt views, but as usual u just highlight the points that serve ur interest .... anyway, say whatever you want, but just STAY OUT
    for me it's enough that all fair educated americans,whose views DO matter and based on research, stated that the current science wouldn't has achieved without ARABS' books, references and liberaries.....& if u don't want to admit the truth, then this is another issue and it would be ur own problem =)..... that's a HISTORY and definitely ur views won't change it....
    all the best Tunisians =)) you're in my prayers

    March 18, 2011 at 5:44 pm | Reply
    • Jorge

      As all muslims you are a brainwashed retard that lacks intelligence, honesty, basic morals and anything worth mentioning, but yes, you are a worthy follower of the worst stinking mass-murdering bandit of all times-false prophet muham-MAD!

      Its time the world knew the truth. Islam stole most of the science from other cultures. It was deemed as war booty.

      Here are some responses for the Muslims.

      You state, "its architects designed buildings that defied gravity." I am not sure what you are referring to, but if you are referring to domes and arches, the fundamental architectural breakthrough of using a parabolic shape instead of a spherical shape for these structures was made by the Assyrians more than 1300 years earlier, as evidenced by their archaeological record.

      You state,

      "its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers, and the creation of encryption."
      The fundamental basis of modern mathematics had been laid down not hundreds but thousands of years before by Assyrians and Babylonians, who already knew of the concept of zero, of the Pythagorean Theorem, and of many, many other developments expropriated by Arabs/Muslims (see HISTORY OF BABYLONIAN MATHEMATICS by Otto E. Neugebauer).

      You state,

      "its doctors examined the human body, and found new cures for disease."

      The overwhelming majority of these doctors (99%) were Assyrians. In the fourth, fifth, and sixth centuries Assyrians began a systematic translation of the Greek body of knowledge into Assyrian. At first, they concentrated on the religious works but then quickly moved to science, philosophy and medicine. Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Galen, and many others were translated into Assyrian, and from Assyrian into Arabic. It is these Arabic translations which the Moors brought with them into Spain, and which the Spaniards translated into Latin and spread throughout Europe, thus igniting the European Renaissance.

      By the sixth century A.D., Assyrians had begun exporting back to Byzantia their own works on science, philosophy and medicine. In the field of medicine, the Bakhteesho Assyrian family produced nine generations of physicians, and founded the great medical school at Gundeshapur (Iran). Also in the area of medicine, (the Assyrian) Hunayn ibn-Ishaq's textbook on ophthalmology, written in 950 A.D., remained the authoritative source on the subject until 1800 A.D.

      In the area of philosophy, the Assyrian philosopher Job of Edessa developed a physical theory of the universe, in the Assyrian language, that rivaled Aristotle's theory, and that sought to replace matter with forces (a theory that anticipated some ideas in quantum mechanics, such as the spontaneous creation and destruction of matter that occurs in the quantum vacuum).

      One of the greatest Assyrian achievements of the fourth century was the founding of the first university in the world, the School of Nisibis, which had three departments, theology, philosophy and medicine, and which became a magnet and center of intellectual development in the Middle East. The statutes of the School of Nisibis, which have been preserved, later became the model upon which the first Italian university was based (see THE STATUTES OF THE SCHOOL OF NISIBIS by Arthur Voobus).

      When Arabs and Islam swept through the Middle East in 630 A.D., they encountered 600 years of Assyrian Christian civilization, with a rich heritage, a highly developed culture, and advanced learning institutions. It is this civilization that became the foundation of the Arab civilization.
      You state,

      "Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration."

      This is a bit melodramatic. In fact, the astronomers you refer to were not Arabs but Chaldeans and Babylonians (of present day south-Iraq), who for millennia were known as astronomers and astrologers, and who were forcibly Arabized and Islamized – so rapidly that by 750 A.D. they had disappeared completely.

      You state,

      "its writers created thousands of stories. Stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things."

      There is very little literature in the Arabic language that comes from this period you are referring to (the Koran is the only significant piece of literature), whereas the literary output of the Assyrians and Jews was vast. The third largest corpus of Christian writing, after Latin and Greek, is by the Assyrians in the Assyrian language (also called Syriac).

      You state,

      "when other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them, and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive, and passed it on to others."

      This is a very important issue you raise, and it goes to the heart of the matter of what Arab/Islamic civilization represents. I reviewed a book titled HOW GREEK SCIENCE PASSED TO THE ARABS, in which author De Lacy O'Leary lists the significant translators and interpreters of Greek science. Of the 22 scholars listed, 20 were Assyrians, one was Persian and one an Arab. I state at the end of my review:

      "The salient conclusion which can be drawn from O'Leary's book is that Assyrians played a significant role in the shaping of the Islamic world via the Greek corpus of knowledge. If this is so, one must then ask the question, what happened to the Christian communities which made them lose this great intellectual enterprise they had established? One can ask this same question of the Arabs. Sadly, O'Leary's book does not answer this question, and we must look elsewhere for the answer."

      I did not answer this question I posed in the review because it was not the place to answer it, but the answer is very clear, the Christian Assyrian community was drained of its population through forced conversion to Islam (by the Jizzya), and once the community had dwindled below a critical threshold, it ceased producing the scholars that were the intellectual driving force of the Islamic civilization, and that is when the so called "Golden Age of Islam" came to an end (about 850 A.D.).

      Islam the religion itself was significantly molded by Assyrians and Jews (see NESTORIAN INFLUENCE ON ISLAM and HAGARISM: THE MAKING OF THE ISLAMIC WORLD).

      Arab/Islamic civilization is not a progressive force, it is a regressive force; it does not give impetus, it retards. The great civilization you describe was not an Arab/Muslim accomplishment, it was an Assyrian accomplishment that Arabs expropriated and subsequently lost when they drained, through the forced conversion of Assyrians to Islam, the source of the intellectual vitality that propelled it. What other Arab/Muslim civilization has risen since? What other Arab/Muslim successes can we cite?

      You state,

      "and perhaps we can learn a lesson from his [Suleiman] example: It was leadership based on meritocracy, not inheritance. It was leadership that harnessed the full capabilities of a very diverse population that included Christianity, Islamic, and Jewish traditions."

      In fact, the Ottomans were extremely oppressive to non-Muslims. For example, young Christian boys were forcefully taken from their families, usually at the age of 8-10, and inducted into the Janissaries, (yeniceri in Turkish) where they were Islamized and made to fight for the Ottoman state. What literary, artistic or scientific achievements of the Ottomans can we point to? We can, on the other hand, point to the genocide of 750,000 Assyrians, 1.5 million Armenians and 400,000 Greeks in World War One by the Kemalist "Young Turk" government. This is the true face of Islam.

      Arabs/Muslims are engaged in an explicit campaign of destruction and expropriation of cultures and communities, identities and ideas. Wherever Arab/Muslim civilization encounters a non-Arab/Muslim one, it attempts to destroy it (as the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan were destroyed, as Persepolis was destroyed by the Ayotollah Khomeini).

      This is a pattern that has been recurring since the advent of Islam, 1400 years ago, and is amply substantiated by the historical record. If the "foreign" culture cannot be destroyed, then it is expropriated, and revisionist historians claim that it is and was Arab, as is the case of most of the Arab "accomplishments" you cited in your speech. For example, Arab history texts in the Middle East teach that Assyrians were Arabs, a fact that no reputable scholar would assert, and that no living Assyrian would accept. Assyrians first settled Nineveh, one of the major Assyrian cities, in 5000 B.C., which is 5630 years before Arabs came into that area. Even the word 'Arab' is an Assyrian word, meaning "Westerner" (the first written reference to Arabs was by the Assyrian King Sennacherib, 800 B.C., in which he tells of conquering the "ma'rabayeh" – Westerners. See THE MIGHT THAT WAS ASSYRIA by H. W. F. Saggs).

      Even in America this Arabization policy continues. On October 27th a coalition of seven Assyrian and Maronite organizations sent an official letter to the Arab American Institute asking it to stop identifying Assyrians and Maronites as Arabs, which it had been deliberately doing.
      There are minorities and nations struggling for survival in the Arab/Muslim ocean of the Middle East and Africa (Assyrians, Armenians, Coptics, Jews, southern Sudanese, Ethiopians, Nigerians...), and we must be very sensitive not to unwittingly and inadvertently support Islamic fascism and Arab Imperialism, with their attempts to wipe out all other cultures, religions and civilizations. It is incumbent upon each one of us to do our homework and research when making statements and speeches about these sensitive matters.

      March 19, 2011 at 5:21 pm | Reply
  7. USMC Muslim

    Jorge, obviously you have a big issue with Islam and Muslims, you're saying we killed more people that anyone else, where the hell did you get this info???
    Every empire has its ups and its downs, and the Othman empire you're talking about was a bad example (even though they lasted for more than 500 years).
    You're saying Arabs took science and knowledge from Assyrians, you actually showed your ignorance there, science and knowledge have been a continuation since Adam & Eve, from Babylon to Egypt to Greece to & to & to... until now.
    You're quoting all these books and writers who in fact (probably you are to) racists and haters (and may be even sociopaths).
    I guess according to you a religion that has been around for more than 1400 years, that attracts more than a billion people and is the most growing religion in the world, far more than all other religions combined, is an evil religion!!!
    Hmm I guess evil attracts that many people (according to you of course), and this evil religion (again according to you) does in fact believe in Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah, Adam.....
    Also (according to you again), the Quran is an evil book. Hmmm!!! this evil book mentions Jesus, Moses & Abraham, in many occasions, and only mentions Mohamed couple times, I guess only an evil religion would do that, and only an evil religion would ask to believe in Jesus, Moses & Abraham.
    The dictators that you're talking about were actually appointed by the US, GB or France, we can discuss that from here to mars but NOBODY can deny that, and if you don't get it then you need to wake up because you have been living in lala land.

    March 19, 2011 at 8:32 pm | Reply
    • amri ines

      Well-said USMC muslim ! I think Jorge is not open for tolerance, communiaction and the right for difference ! What a shock to read these comments ! Mr Jorge we can suit U , U know !! for inciting for hatred and intolerance , so watch ur mouth and mind ! ISLAM is a religion , whether U like it or not !and plz before saying nonsense , just take few days to read about Islam and about OUR history !
      U R really weird ! thank God U R the exception ! But I guess U need a shrink , that's obvious ! Ouf take a breath and read some books before copying and pasting some rubbish taking from NOWHERE !
      Peace ! (that's the meaning of the word "Islam" by the way !)

      March 20, 2011 at 7:59 pm | Reply
  8. HomePage

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    August 15, 2012 at 11:54 pm | Reply
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