December 13th, 2012
01:33 AM ET

Should America try to be like Scandinavia?

For more What in the World, watch GPS on Sundays at 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. ET.

By Global Public Square

Here at GPS we often report how the United States has fallen behind in a number of global rankings. For example, The Economist has just published what it calls the "Where to be born" index: a list of countries which provide the best opportunities and the highest quality of life. In 1988, America was #1; now it is joint 16th. Three of the top five countries today are in Scandinavia: Norway, Sweden, and Denmark.

Or look at the World Economic Forum's Global Competitiveness Index. The U.S. has fallen to #7 in the latest rankings. Finland and Sweden are in the top five.

Or look at corruption. The United States ranks 19th in Transparency International's new index. Denmark and Finland are rated the cleanest countries.

Now you can spot two trends. On the one hand, America has been losing its edge. But I'm also struck by the rise of Scandinavia, a region that includes Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and if you broaden that definition, Finland and Iceland. Each of these countries seem to dominate global ranking lists. Why? What is their secret sauce?

Well, Scandinavia is actually much more free market-oriented than most people realize. Capital is allocated by the market, the government doesn't own companies, regulation is usually light, corruption is non-existent. Companies can hire and fire easily, labor moves around. But these countries do tax a lot and spend a lot – on education, childcare, health and other things.

Now,  a recent MIT paper suggests there are limits to this model. It's called "Can't we all be more like Scandinavians?" In brief, it points out how the Scandinavian welfare system provides a number of benefits: more vacations, better healthcare, more equality. But when it comes to innovation, the U.S. still wins. For example, if you look at patents filed per million residents, the study shows the U.S. has moved far ahead of Scandinavian countries.

Here's why this is important. Unlike say, a healthcare system (which only benefits people of one particular country), innovation has global impacts. New American inventions spread around the world. According to the paper's authors, Scandinavian countries "free-ride" on U.S. research and development. But if the U.S. became Scandinavian, it would spend less on innovation, which might reduce global growth rates (and thus, discredit the Scandinavian model).

The paper has been criticized for using patents as the marker for innovation. But even so, this is an important discussion. And it ties in to many of the questions our leaders are grappling with. Does the state need to make societies more equal? Does that come at a cost?

There is much to admire about Scandinavia: on education, on healthcare, on energy. But that doesn't mean we need to become Scandinavian. We are more individualistic, free-wheeling, ready to take risks. Americans don’t need to stop being American. But why not look at how these countries in Scandinavia make investments in healthcare and early education and how all of these things create greater equality of opportunity. That is after all what helps people succeed, no matter where they come from or how poor they are.

The truth is, Scandinavian countries are fulfilling a huge part of the American dream better than America these days. Thankfully, we're still an innovation powerhouse, and we need to spend more on R&D rather than cutting those budgets. And perhaps we need to target some of that innovative thinking towards restoring the American Dream of equal opportunity. That would be a truly American solution to an American problem.

soundoff (586 Responses)
  1. Nick

    More vacation time, better/free education, free healthcare. Balanced budgets and a realistically sized military? Sign me up our government needs a model to steal ideas from. Scandinavia sounds like a great model for the future U.S.

    December 13, 2012 at 9:13 pm |
    • I Am God.

      Yes exactly. In Spain, companies have to pay you severance for 3 and a half years after letting you go. Why can't we be more like them: sensible and empathetic to our people who are suffering. I'd love nothing more than have the freedom to try every type of job imaginable, so I can figure out which is best for me. If I was let go from each one, I'd have plenty of severance to pay my way. But that's not possible in fascist corporate-controlled America.
      The French have make-up vacation time, and if they are injured or sick during their vacation, they can stack those days up as well and vacation on them later. No wonder America is 16th

      December 13, 2012 at 9:39 pm |
      • I Am JR. A Middle School Dropout Without A High School Degree

        Wow JR where did Spain and France get into the picture? The guy is talking about Scandinavia.

        December 13, 2012 at 9:42 pm |
  2. mario

    If only spent half of our defense budget on better education and healthcare. It is an embarrassment that we dont have universal healthcare and that we keep falling farther and farther behind in education. When are going to realize that we need to conquer the world economically and humanely not by stupid wars that only benefit the defense companies.

    December 13, 2012 at 9:28 pm |
    • I Am JR. A Middle School Dropout Without A High School Degree

      I am in total agreement. I have more friends who practice Islam than I do Republican friends, because to be honest, the Muslims are far more peaceful than those war-mongers. If we cured our health care issues with universal healthcare, we can use the rest of our healthy days cultivating the hearts and minds of our Muslim friends in the Middle East. How are we supposed to create a collective world culture without them?

      December 13, 2012 at 10:01 pm |
  3. kithill

    Look, a country powered by lutefisk and Volvo's can't be all bad!

    December 13, 2012 at 9:31 pm |
  4. ffacts

    Maybe we should be more like Somalia, Chad, Sudan, Zimbabwe, The Congo, Guinea, Haiti, Ivory Coast, Nigeria, Ethiopia?

    December 13, 2012 at 9:43 pm |
  5. sparky

    Boston and San Francisco ARE Scandinavian, in terms of standard of living, education, etc. They're also the engines of American innovation, with places like Silicon Valley, Stanford, Berkeley, Harvard, MIT, etc.

    Scandinavian-style society and innovation are not mutually exclusive.

    Subtract places like Detroit, Mississippi, and Florida from America, and we begin to look like Scandinavia. Fewer rednecks and ghetto trash eating, drugging, and shooting themselves to death, and more people studying and starting businesses.

    December 13, 2012 at 9:47 pm |
    • I Am JR. A Middle School Dropout Without A High School Degree

      I don't know, I think Detroit's getting a bad rap. Unions are the heart and soul of the collective people of America. How can we work towards the collective greater good, with no wealth disparity, and equal income for all, without the help of the Unions? You're crazy if you think Detroit isn't a success

      December 13, 2012 at 9:58 pm |
      • I Am JR. A Middle School Dropout Without A High School Degree

        Well at least you are admitting your a middle school dropout JR. i would say it takes a man to do that, but you are obviously still a child so that wouldn't work in this case.

        December 13, 2012 at 10:04 pm |
  6. Vault Boy

    Can't, we are too diverse culturally and economically.

    December 13, 2012 at 9:48 pm |
  7. Robin Jones

    If one looks more closely at the numbers of people on permanent disability in Scandinavian countries, it is obvious that these countries are hiding their real levels of unemployment by putting their long-term unemployed on disability, where they no longer show up as unemployed. It's a simple shell game designed to make their governments look good at the same time they are running highly unproductive societies.

    December 13, 2012 at 9:55 pm |
  8. Bryan Kirchoff

    This article's headline question presumes Scandinavia could be Scandinavia without the U. S. being the U. S. Every time someone states that "The United States is the only industrialized country that ", they should immediately be met with "The United States is also the only industrialized country that...defends all the other industrialized countries." Every time someone uses the meaningless statistic that "The United States spends more on defense than the next X countries combined", they should be met with "The United States has more security obligations than the next X countries combined." Yes, it is remarkable how prosperous a country can be when another country is willing to pick up the burden of defending its territory, securing its maritime trading lanes, and guarding its energy supplies.

    Bryan Kirchoff
    St. Louis

    P. S. Yes, I know Sweden and Finland are not formally defended by the U. S., as are Norway, Denmark, and Iceland. However, an implied defense was there to prevent the Soviets from becoming too aggressive with the neutral countries, and they also benefitted from the global stability provided by the U. S.

    December 13, 2012 at 9:55 pm |
    • I Am JR. A Middle School Dropout Without A High School Degree

      You are just a dirty war-mongering Republican that refuses to accept reality, and embrace the global greater community we are forming, starting right here in the US. Obama has us on the right track, and you obstructionists are attempting to destroy any hope of a world without wealth gaps, people living under poverty, and no more discrimination (except against religious people, they are evil). We want to rid the world of pollution and push back the rising tides, but you evil conservatives are destructive to any good idea

      December 13, 2012 at 10:06 pm |
      • JR

        Leave it alone I Am God. You're sounding like a full blown commie

        December 13, 2012 at 10:20 pm |
      • mr.butters

        Good grief? Commie? Sit down, I have something important to tell you.

        The cold war is over.

        By trying to use commie as an insult you simply appear ignorant.

        December 13, 2012 at 10:23 pm |
      • JR

        jokes on you mr. butters

        December 13, 2012 at 10:36 pm |
      • I Am God.

        Nothing's wrong with Communism if you do it right. The bullies held the reigns in most communist states, and I see those same bullies in the eyes of our Republican skum.

        December 13, 2012 at 10:43 pm |
      • I Am JR. A Middle School Dropout Without A High School Degree

        Wow still posting like a 5 year old mentality JR. That is really sad.

        December 13, 2012 at 10:44 pm |
      • I Am JR. A Middle School Dropout Without A High School Degree

        JR you seem to forget that the Republicans have that bully mentality as well.

        December 13, 2012 at 10:47 pm |
  9. mr.butters

    HAH! They rank patents?? And cite that low numbers of patents slow innovation? Like Apple patenting a page turning animation? I'd say patents end up slowing innovation. Not all the time, only needless ones, which has sadly become the norm.

    December 13, 2012 at 10:21 pm |
    • I Am JR. A Middle School Dropout Without A High School Degree

      Apple is an evil multi-national corporation that oppresses the people of the wonderful state of China, who we could learn a thing or two about governing from. Change is coming. We need to round up the conservatives and religious types and either force them to disband, leave the country, or educate them on how things really are. We should consider extending presidential term limits so that the neo-cons don't mess things up in 2016. We're heading in the right direction, but change is certainly coming

      December 13, 2012 at 10:41 pm |
  10. Karl1

    How about Atheists/Agnostic populations 70%+ in those countries.

    December 13, 2012 at 10:42 pm |
  11. alphonce aboge

    am an american travelled this world but what has always facsinated me is how americans are busy arguing thier blackness or whiteness while the rest of the world are moving average american now is too ignorant to even know the neighbouring state.africans know more than americans

    December 13, 2012 at 10:50 pm |
  12. Arno

    2 Words: Personal Responsibility

    The U.S. lacks this and it is absolutely critical for my Scandinavian lifestyle to work. Too many Americans are too motivated to "milk" the system. Too many "freeloaders". In my country, Finland, people do not brag about ripping off the gov't. We understand that if everyone did, the system would fail.

    December 13, 2012 at 10:53 pm |
  13. Roberto

    Strange article written from an USA rather arrogant point of view.
    Interesting the fact that no mention is made of the other 2 countries classified as the very top ones: these two must do something "wrong" to be there but are not worth a comment.
    Since the USA will never learn from anybody (it is not patriotic) it will continue its downtrend.

    December 13, 2012 at 10:54 pm |
  14. Truth

    I lived in Iceland for 2 years while serving in the U.S. Navy. I know some might not believe me, but the place, to me, was purely magical. It was like living in a fairytale land. It was not perfect, it was cold very, very often there, but the people...they were so beautiful, so kind. It opened my eyes to how life should actually be, what it could be. I think the worst day of my life was my final day there, when I realized I'd probably never be back except to visit, and that I had to return to America.
    Life for me since then has never been the same. I do not like America or Americans anymore, sorry to say. After seeing the possibilities of what a place can actually be like, and how people should actually be, America is a very ugly place. I now refer to my British roots, and I now consider myself an American only in citizenship (because my Grandparents moved to America in the 1950's from England).
    Life here in America could never emulate life in Scandinavia. It is not possible. The education levels and lifestyle choice bar is set far too low in America. The people are not kind, they are not happy. Americans are simply put not very decent people overall.
    I HATE cold weather, but I'd gladly take a life back up in Iceland over any location in America. America is just full of unhappy, bitter, ugly people.

    December 13, 2012 at 10:55 pm |
    • Truth

      I thought that I should add that one large reason why the Icelanders were so carefree and happy, was because there were no immigrants there, no unwanted minorities. There were nothing but 100% pure, Nordic, Scandinavian White people. Don't let anyone lie to you, places such as this are a social paradise. I saw not one fight between Icelanders the entire two years, only people fighting in the Navy. There were no blacks ooking and eeking at your women. There was a great social harmony there, no bickering, no fighting, no hatred to speak of whatsoever. This is how all places of the world need to be....we are being overrun and destroyed by unwanted, uncivilized, unwelcome races.
      People have a God-given right to choose to reside around only people of their own kind. This is a right that must be fought for, to the death, if challenged at all. Only then can we all have peace, when we live amongst our own kind. Multiculturalism and diversity is ruining everything for good people, just so bad people can live amongst us. It is time for us to stand up, and put this charade to and end, because this cannot realistically end peacefully.

      December 13, 2012 at 11:01 pm |
      • I Am JR. A Middle School Dropout Without A High School Degree

        Truth all I can say is that you are far from the truth.

        December 13, 2012 at 11:05 pm |
      • Scott

        Seek help, you embody everything that is wrong in this world.....

        December 13, 2012 at 11:14 pm |
      • Truth

        If you are a White person saying that to are a shame upon your own race and it's purity.
        My guess? You're not pure 100% White, like they are in Scandinavia. You're more like an American White, a mutt. You are not 100% pure Caucasian for you to be defending the watering down of our pure race.

        December 13, 2012 at 11:43 pm |
      • I Am JR. A Middle School Dropout Without A High School Degree

        Truth I am about as American as they come, since we were all once immigrants to this nation. Yes I am purely white and unlike you not racist. We are all humans; it does not matter what color you are.

        December 13, 2012 at 11:49 pm |
      • Hello from the North

        How can you call yourself "Truth" when you speak so much lies? All of your posts are illogical and show your ignorance in a very embarrassing manner. For example, look at Canada – a country which prides itself on having a very large amount of visible minorities (whether that be African, Asian, Hispanic, etc.). In fact, Statistics Canada believes that in 2017, more than one Canadian in five might be foreign-born. This trend is not new because Canada has been experiencing a heavy influx of immigrants for many years. However, despite all of this, Canada remains as one of the best countries in the world to live in and is currently doing much better than the States fiscally. The ironic thing about this whole situation is that we are everything you are not: liberal (even our conservatives are not as far-right as yours are), tax-based health-care loving, immigrant-accepting (our culture does not force immigrants to totally abandon their native beliefs, as opposed to yours, which requires everyone to completely become American in every sense of the word) people. As a Canadian, I can honestly say that I have friends of almost every colour, and regarding crime, my house has only been broken into once – BY A WHITE GUY. I don't know why you have such a grudge against black people, but I would encourage you to open your eyes and take another look at the different cultures that not only make up your community, but also your history as well. You will be very surprised at how many of them are good, hard-working individuals who may have more in common with "pure 100% European Americans" than you think.

        Want to check my facts? Here they are:

        December 14, 2012 at 1:37 am |
  15. Edison Ford

    Some people really don't see the message of this article. Better healthcare, medicine, education, and quality of life are driven by innovation. Innovation is the driving force behind a strong economy and better quality of life, not a regulative government.

    If you wish to refute this statement, take a look at the former USSR (a socialist state). Sure, they were innovative to a certain extent, but their socialist (and regulative) mentality eventually caught up with their economy and the country ultimately failed. The US, on the other hand, fell behind the Soviets in innovation at various points but did not deviate from the innovation capitalist model, thus our economy is still intact.

    Some food for thought....

    December 13, 2012 at 11:10 pm |
  16. Scott

    So, what I'm getting out of this that innovation is more important than people. That having people starving and struggling to survive is the only way to drive innovation?
    Well said Fareed, you're a true humanitarian.

    December 13, 2012 at 11:13 pm |
  17. Truth

    All people on this planet have a God-given right to live amongst only their own people, and to reject any type of forced multiculturalism and diversity placed upon them. This brings only bad things to White people. Why must we attempt to constantly dilute the only pure race on this planet? We're the single reason people live such high standards of life on this planet today, do we receive no reward for that?
    Regardless of what any government attempts to tell you, people are not required to give in to unwanted races moving in and taking over. This is our land.

    December 13, 2012 at 11:42 pm |
    • I Am JR. A Middle School Dropout Without A High School Degree

      Forced? I married my wife who is a mixture of hispanic and white. She never forced me to marry her, I was the one that asked her to marry me. So what other clueless ramblings are you going to talk about.

      December 13, 2012 at 11:50 pm |
      • Nate Higgers

        Proof that even a "White" man can make mistakes. I use the term white as loosely as possible.
        Your children will NOT be White. Kiss you ancestors and family tree goodbye.

        December 14, 2012 at 12:28 am |
      • I Am JR. A Middle School Dropout Without A High School Degree

        Nate Higgers I honestly don't care. Know why? BECAUSE WE ARE ALL HUMAN

        December 14, 2012 at 12:36 am |
  18. Mike Johnson

    What's laughable isn't the farce of a ranking system created by The Economist – like we should care what some editor thinks over at that rag, but that we should want to be like Norway, where their craptacularly bad justice system just gave their worst murderer a slap on the wrist. Totally idiotic.

    No, I'm quite happy to live here away from that kind of asinine liberal lunacy. Thank you very much.

    December 14, 2012 at 12:16 am |
  19. Kuller

    Visited Denmark including Bornholm, the island of my paternal ancestors. While I live a lifestyle well above average and have an income in the same range in the USA, my financial resources were not up to the costs in Denmark. Without prompting, I had a restaurant owner apologize to me for adding the 25% VAT on our lunch! Nice country, friendly and helpful people but they did not appear to be living a life superior to what I've observed in visits to many other areas (Germany, Austria, Czech Republic and Scotland).

    December 14, 2012 at 12:27 am |
    • Sparkler Dynamo

      Well I have been to the States many times and I can honestly say that the kind of poverty that exists in the USA, does not exist in Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Austria or even Canada. It is undoubtedly true that a lot of things are more expensive in many of these countries than in the States but you will find that on average incomes are a little higher as well. They pay a lot of taxes (premiums really) towards social insurance, unemployment benefits, healthcare but hey then your covered in case you lose your job, in case you get sick etc.

      December 14, 2012 at 1:46 am |
      • aswede

        I was recently hospitalized for a week and today I got an invoice from the hospital in the mail.
        Amounting to the, almost unpayable, sum of $5. Five bucks!! For that i got 24/7 medical staff attention including doctors, breakfast, lunch, dinner and en evening snack ever darn day.

        December 14, 2012 at 7:08 am |
    • Garm

      I don't think there is that much of a difference in daily life. The big difference is in freedom. There is much less fear of crime. You can go for your dream job without worrying about healthcare. Or start your own business. You can have kids when it suits your life. Men and women can mix families and careers. You can take a year off for personal development, you have the vacation time to enjoy life. You can retire early if you save for lifes neccessities.

      You don't really see that in the daily grid, but the freedom to make those decisions are what really puts them ahead.

      December 14, 2012 at 8:52 am |
  20. TC

    And what about that white elephant in the room–the one with the big "D" on its ass.
    Money spent on defense:
    US-#1 700 BILLION
    Norway-#27 7BILION
    It's called priorities.

    December 14, 2012 at 12:41 am |
  21. caesarbc

    It would never work in the US, because people are having a hard enough time continuing looking for work, even when they are being paid to look for work. The TV and couch are so comfortable.

    December 14, 2012 at 12:49 am |
  22. the_real_winner

    Patents costs in China 600€, in USA 1800$, in EU 30,000€. Enough said?

    December 14, 2012 at 12:52 am |
  23. Chuck

    America should be MORE LIKE AMERIICA

    we are messed up because the Left think we should be Europe,

    December 14, 2012 at 12:56 am |
    • Get over it

      So you think America should be a plutocracy with rights only for white christian males?

      December 14, 2012 at 1:50 am |
      • Tyler

        Nice racist comment. And FYI, America was better than ever when this was the way it was.

        December 14, 2012 at 3:01 am |
  24. hunter

    the swedish, danish systems are almost perfect in terms of distrubution of government funds and the means of acquiring them. you would NOT have multi-millionaires paying just 15% income tax it would be almost 50%. government funded healthcare, no tuition for public universities, In the USA, it's called "SOCIALISM." everything is about materialism and greed. because of that, the scandinavian way of things would not work.

    December 14, 2012 at 1:03 am |
    • Get over it

      I'd still rather be a millionaire paying 50% tax than only making 50k a yr paying between 6% to 10% tax

      December 14, 2012 at 1:52 am |
  25. hemo

    we should try to emulate Germany and what they did 1939-1945

    December 14, 2012 at 1:29 am |
  26. iamCanadian

    I don't understand why Americans get so upset when a news broadcast or article says that another country is doing better than the United States. Americans need to pay more if they want more. Simple. I am a Canadian and live in Canada. I am a doctoral student from one of our top universities that is recognized world wide and my tuition is about $3000 a year. I earn a six figure income, live in a great house and my family has excellent healthcare and we don't wait and no one is left to die. We did not have a housing collapse and we are highly regulated. We get one year off for maternity/ parental leave, meaning that either mother of father can take the 35 weeks of parental leave and still collect employment insurance and depending on your employer you get a top up, mine was 93%. I made more on maternity/parental then when I was working. I am not trying to boast, these things are not free, we pay for them through higher taxes, but in the end it gives us all a better quality of life. Canada is by no means perfect and neither are the Scandanavian countries. America is a great nation and has a great people. I just you all would stopp the hating because you are better than that. Its not about black or white, or even rich or poor. You all have to decide what is important for you as a nation and no one can decide that for you. If you value every man for himself, then you will continue to have the two extremes, absolute wealth and abosolute poverty. If you value a more even distribution then everyone not just the wealthy will have to pay more.

    December 14, 2012 at 1:34 am |
    • Tyler

      And then China or Russia wants to invade your country and it's the USA who comes and protects your ass.

      December 14, 2012 at 2:57 am |
      • Martin

        You're right. I remember the last time China and Russia tried to invade Canada. It was such a mess!

        December 14, 2012 at 3:45 am |
      • anonymous

        Martin - Russia and China plainly stated that they wanted the whole WORLD. that would include Canada.

        Without US opposition, the Soviet/RedChina axis would have certainly conquered the world.

        December 14, 2012 at 4:22 am |
      • Martin

        Anon- When did they state this? I must have missed it completely

        December 14, 2012 at 4:35 am |
      • Garm

        The combined military spending of Russia and China is less than the total of France, Germany and the UK.

        Not counting America, the rest of the NATO/EU countries spend more than enough to outspend any possible enemy. And for every year that passes, weapons get more advanced and having masses of soldiers less useful.

        December 14, 2012 at 9:03 am |
    • Doug

      Any rational American is NEVER angered when another country outperforms it in ANY category. True Americans want the world to succeed and admire excellence wherever it emerges. But comparisons like the one above suggest we REFORM our society to mimick smaller countries with less diveristy and tiny military contributions. The U.S. population exceeds ALL the countries listed above does the U.S. military expenditures, and so does the U.S. GDP. We also have a VERY diverse population.

      Americans do not like being criticized as needing reform all the time....especially when the comparison is OUT OF CONTEXT.

      December 14, 2012 at 9:24 am |
  27. Spence

    "Scandinavian countries "free-ride" on U.S. research and development."

    It can also be said that U.S. "free-rides" on global intellectual talent that flock to the US but is not developed on US soil; talent that was cheaply acquired from other countries.

    December 14, 2012 at 1:34 am |
    • RBD

      Not only do we not deny capitalizing on using the rest of the world's talent, we take pride in it. That's the whole point of the U.S.

      December 14, 2012 at 3:12 am |
  28. Sparkler Dynamo

    I am both Dutch and Canadian, both the Netherlands and Canada are in the Top 10 and as far as I am concerned deservedly so. I was surprised to read that the USA at one point (1988) was ranked # 1 while even back then the Scandinavian countries as well as the Netherlands and Germany, Luxembourg, Switzerland had in my opinion higher living standards compared to the USA. The USA is a great country to live in, as long as you have money. I also have to disagree with Jason Miks in regard to Labour laws, it is very difficult to dismiss employees in any of the Scandinavian countries especially if they have permanent contracts and also there are quite a few (partially) state owned companies there as well.

    December 14, 2012 at 1:34 am |
    • joe

      You are so correct. I've lived in Europe. Even in recession the standard of living was higher. If you're already born wealthy, the US is your country. If not, best to move to Canada.

      December 14, 2012 at 2:55 am |
  29. moribundman

    Denmark is not part of Scandinavia. What other mistakes are in this article?

    December 14, 2012 at 1:55 am |
    • aswede

      They're not? When did that happen? Overnight?.

      December 14, 2012 at 7:20 am |
    • stoptheblame

      duh.....go wait for your check in the mail and maybe open a book

      December 14, 2012 at 10:36 am |
  30. Mark

    IIf it works for anyone but the fascist wealthy, we don't want it!! Fascism is the Man Behind The Curtain!

    December 14, 2012 at 1:57 am |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Post a comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.